I suppose some were inspired to confidence by George Bush’s weekly radio address:
President Bush told the nation Saturday that progress is being made in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But the British seem to find it less than compelling:
The US “surge” tactic in Iraq appears likely to fail, a committee of MPs warned in a wide-ranging assessment of the Middle East.
A report by the Commons foreign affairs committee delivered a pessimistic verdict on Washington’s bid to restore peace by committing 30,000 extra troops.
“It is too early to provide a definitive assessment of the US ’surge’ but it does not look likely to succeed,” the MPs concluded.
I guess they weren’t too crazy about this:
STRAINED relations between Washington and London were stretched still further over Iraq last night, as a senior American official condemned Britain’s “failure” in its mission to bring peace to the south of the war-torn country.
Defence chiefs reacted with fury after right-wing commentator and adviser Anthony Cordesman weighed into the row over the UK’s contribution to the post-Saddam operation with a withering claim that Britain had effectively handed control of its zone to local “mafiosi”.
[]
The Bush administration has until recently ignored the south, content to leave it to the British. Now, however, it is beginning to pay attention to the region, amid the realisation that what has been portrayed as a success story is turning sour.
We may be seeing the limits of “kicking ass and taking names” as a comprehensive international strategy.
Related posts:
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- Steve Schmidt Sells Shit by the Seashore
- SF Tobacco Law Survives Challenge; Attention Turns to Pending SCOTUS Commercial Speech Decision
- Health Care: Pete King is Out of Touch with Long Island, New York, and America
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Jane!
zed?
Oh well, now to read the post.
zed?
Here
John Bolton may be gone, but the rest of the PNAC Platoon and the Ledeen Doctrinaires are still around.
The Brits aren’t too happy about being holed up in the palace and at the airport in Basra, which is now entirely out of control. They are having trouble getting in supplies.
Aren’t the Brits also furious about the civilian casualties of “cowboy” Americans in Afghanistan? Hard to understand how anyone could find comfort from any words spoken by Bush.
the only comfort I take in “everything the shrub touches turns to shit” is that he has probably forever ruined the repug party…
permanent majority should read “permanent minority”…
Jane, that headline rules!
Brits were never too gung ho about dyin fer Iraqi democracy. Don’t blame em. The vaunted democracy resembles- well- a Clusterfuck – a tale told by an idiot.
Who you going to believe, the British or a tough talking Texas brush rancher?
“It is too early to provide a definitive assessment of the US ’surge’ but it does not look likely to succeed,” the MPs concluded.
Aw, heck! What could the British possibly know about the Middle East and Afghanistan that W doesn’t know better?
RAF bombing Basra to relieve troops under seige – posted 2 hours ago, but from an 8/12 article:
http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/…..-19613168/
I meant civilian casualties by “cowboy” Americans in Afghanistans.
OldCoastie @ 9
That would be the perfect Bush legacy.
Everything GWB touches does turn to shit. That would have been a great Gore campaign slogan.
Brits about ta get their asses kicked out of Eye-Rack for the second time- they’re slow learners..”For queen and empire”!
The US criticizing the British? A case of the kettle calling the poodle black?
Stories startin to creep into newspapers daily about how the “SURGE” is a success.
The white house is writing the stories again.
carmen @ 15
For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the
Christian down;
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of
the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the
East.”
raven
Kipling?
I always knew Gordon Brown was gonna be a tougher cookie than Tony Blair.
rwcole @ 20
Not so much creeping as flooding. Gee, it would be nice to have a Democratic leader like Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi say something about this, but unfortunately they are still hiding out after the FISA vote.
rwcole @ 22
Naulahka
Biodun @ 23
That’s a pretty low benchmark. Tony made milquetoast look absolutely turgid. (h/t raven)
LS @ 14
Jeez. Imagine when we try to get out…
johnSwifty @ 26
Yea, and he was a milquetoast too!
rwcole @ 20
Dems won’t buy it again, will they?
Which of you wise people persons* said frequently,
“Yeehaw!!” is not an effective foreign policy.
Yeah. And still they continue with waving their cowboy hats and digging in their spurs…
(* – in case the grammar police arrive)
raven @ 25
Johnny Preston
johnSwifty @ 31
Great song! But not too PC these days.
Has anyone yet photoshopped Clusterfuck onto Slim Picken’s image as he road the atom bomb into the ground? Perfect I should think.
Ahh Bush the Varus of our age the wrong man at the right time, starts a war in the wrong country against the wrong people. “Fate blindfolded the eyes of his mind” he believed the work would be easy and that in the end those he fought would come to see him as a wise father. In the end he destroyed Romes finest legions, but on the bright side it did stop roman expansion for a time.
I have a serious question. Is this surge attempting to follow the lead of that captain we heard about a few months ago? Remember the one who did stick figures as illustrations of what he thought our strategy should be, and that included dark haired men growing mustaches and going to the tribal leaders and trying to convince them to work with the US instead of just trying to strongarm the whole area. Remember the guy died before he could get any support for what looked like a more reasonable solution than anyone else was offering at the time.
Here’s the difference between GB (Gordon Brown) and GB (George Bush):
W has an MBA that was handed to him at Harvard, where his family contributed heavily to its endowment.
Whoops- that was “rode”..my fingers can’t spell today.
Rove and Thompson?:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0813.html
Gordon Brown is the first glimps at what sober and reasoned leadership will look like, without fundamentalists, right winger fundamentalists, ratcheting up the days events to invoke a public frenzy. His handling of the airport bombings was lauded on both sides of the aisle. Notice how Sarkozy is getting major press these days? It wasn’t too long ago when Freedom Fries were on the menu, and Sarkozy, on a basic level, is roughly the same as Chirac, and perhaps much less hawkish.
Clusterfuck was a history major at Yale—hard to believe.
Specialized in the period before writing I suppose.
rwcole @ 20
Either that or they’ve found a new and better way to pay more money to have these stories written.
When oh when are the adults going to take over and deal with this bloody mess. Leahy et al are you listening?
It appears to me the only support georgie has is in his jockey shorts.
Surely Brown ain’t no W.:
Clusterfuck’s got the goopers back- his JAR is back into the thirties- he’s on a ROLL!!!
LS @ 38
Not very likely IMO. Even that empty suit Thompson isn’t that stupid. The attack ads would just write themselves.
Anyone know Brown’s dissertation topic?
rwcole @ 40
The only that could possibly more ironic would be if he were an English major.
rwcole @ 40
More likely it was the 18th century when another mad George thought he could rule the world, And his countries media was at first a cheer leader to his wars and slowly had to report the truth.
Helpless Dancer @ 45
A far more likely scenario IMO is romney/Rove. Romney is dirty enough to relish working with rove and is as ruthless and mendacious as they come. A match made in hell.
This is refreshing too, for a prime minister:
My bold. W was drinking beers at frat parties.
Ann in AZ @ 35
The two core goals of the surge were to improve the security situation in Baghdad and provide time and encouragement for a political settlement. Both of these have failed.
I remember but can not recall the name of the officer you are referring to. I think it is important to realize that Iraqis act in accordance with their own agendas. The truce in Anbar is not the result of us going to the tribal sheiks. It is rather that the sheiks made a calculation with regard to al Qaeda types targeting them now and also to the Shia threat down the road in the next phase of the civil war.
nomolos @ 49
It doesn’t make sense for Rove to quit now, unless he is latching on with someone else. He wants a permanent Rep/Fascist majority, and would be lost in the world if he wasn’t digging dirt up on somebody. He will be back.
rwcole @ 46
Impressive, eh?
rwcole @ 46
Brown graduated from Edinburgh with First Class Honours M.A. in 1972, and stayed on to complete his Ph.D. (which he gained in 1982), titled The Labour Party and Political Change in Scotland 1918-29. According to biographer Tom Bower, Brown originally intended his thesis to cover the development of the Labour movement from the seventeenth century onwards, but evolved to more modestly describe “Labour’s struggle to establish itself as the alternative to the Conservatives [in the early part of the 20th century]”.
Biodun @ 36
“Gained?” More likely “earned”–and that really accentuates the difference from Bush.
Biodun @ 43
And…. Brown was 16 years old when he began university, and stayed at Edinburgh for his bachelor’s, master’s and PhD degrees. The last he earned in 1982, with a dissertation called “The Labour Party and Political Change in Scotland 1918-29.”
http://www.kirotv.com/news/13781044/detail.html
Is there a wiki zed?
rwcole @ 46
The Labour Party and Political Change in Scotland, 1918-29
Al Maliki calls a Crisis Conference.
If you liked George W. Bush, you’ll love Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson or Mitt Romney.
Repeat as needed.
-GSD
Edinburgh–that’s a place with some historic foundation.
Home of David Hume and Adam Smith.
GSD @ 60
Add Clinton to that list. And although I am an Obama fan, I like Edwards’ quote about Rove’s departure: Goodbye; and good riddance. Perfect.
Loo Hoo. @ 59
How many crises do you think will attend? *g*
rwcole @ 61
Two intellectual lightweights. We could use people like that right now.
Hume and Smith were buds.
rwcole @ 65
Or bud lights
We also know that Brown, unlike W., will never be arrested for DWI:
Ann in AZ @ 41
It’s not a new and better way; it’s a crude, primitive way that exposes how overt the media are in propagating these lies. See the Glenn Greenwald interview of surge stooge Michael O’Hanlon for the pretty simple mechanics of how this stuff is promoted in the major media. “Think tanks” are simply disinformation laundering enterprises. In the case of Brookings, all the foreign policy “analysis” is being done at the behest of a single Likud bankroller most people have never heard of, Chaim Saban. What journalists like Greenwald have not yet revealed, however, who precisely make the decisions at the networks to book O’Hanlon and Pollack for this concerted propaganda “surge”.
I know it’s been all Rove all the time today, but two things you might be interested in when you come up for air:
The Utah miners rescue can’t be effected.
Republican policy is to continue to criminalize and warehouse the mentally ill – how do you think that’s going to play to the troops – almost half of whom have mental illness symptoms upon return home?
Brown had his retina detatched playing rugby.
EvilDrPuma @ 55
Bush earned everything he’s gotten by having the good sense to be born a Bush. Instrad of being jealous, we should all honor his forethought and strategic thinking shown by that accomplishment. He’s simply better than us. Just ask him or any Bush.
Biodun @ 67
That’s soccer for us american folk.
Per HuffPo:
The French First Lady snubbed George and Laura. She was a no-show for the hot-dog-fest.
We are on the eve of a major realignment. The Bush administration and the liberal branch of the Neocon movement have so poisoned the well that it will take a long time for trust to be restored between Britain, Europe and the United States. Europeans have been playing the diplomatic game three or four centuries longer than the United States, which really only got into it around 1890. They understand balance of power politics. Blair was very slow off the mark on this, and his reputation will permanently suffer as a result of having taken Bush’s word at face value, against the advice of his staff.
I recently finished reading John Darwin’s After Tamerlane, published earlier this year, which is the most important general diplomatic and political history of central, south and East Asia to appear in the last two decades, maybe three. My guess is that Brown, or more likely his advisors have read it or been in touch with Darwin at Oxford. The book is about Empires, their limits and particularly the constraints imposed on western imperialism by indhgenous literary and political cultures, of which the Chinese, Persian, Ottoman, and Russian were the most important. India is a special case which confirms the general argument. No one reading that book can doubt that the United States has been engaged in an out-and-out imperial venture. The British tried at a time when it was much easier, and failed. They are getting out.
If Senator Clinton is elected the next President, she will have to make some painful decisions with respect to the nature of American support for the Israeli occupation of the West bank, or the United States may find itself in the diplomatic wilderness for some time to come.
raven @ 57
Yes, and I invented it… *g*
Get Tough @ 62
Obama? Ewwwww. Protege of Lieberman. Support Edwards, go ahead!
A reporter speaks out about the Iraq war and news coverage
COMMENTARY
Sig Christenson of the San Antonio Express-News ridicules comments by politicians, laments the lack of reporters covering the war, and cites ground rules that are crippling for photojournalists. He says the media aren’t pressing for answers to vital and obvious questions, such as what plans the Pentagon has for an exit strategy.
From Nieman Watchdog.
Owner of the coal mine has been lyin his ass off since this thing started- hope it’s all on video tape for the upcoming lawsuit…hope the administration’s role in throwing mine safety down the sewer is equally well documented.
Knut Wicksell @ 73
Not to mention, the squealing from Republics as they conveniently ignore the last eight years.
I love the revisionist journalism of the NYT.
[Rove] was until last year a focus of the C.I.A. leak case investigation that led to a perjury conviction for Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby Jr..
I thought there was an obstruction of justice conviction in there too, but the NYT set me straight. Thanks, NYT!
rwcole @ 69
Dubya had his retina detached when he hit it on the ritual table after passing out during a Skull and Bones “session.”
yellowsnapdragon @ 75
I don’t know what that means.
BTW US forces in Iraq have undertaken a major new operation Phantom Strike against al Qaeda and “Iranian backed” groups. These will be distinguished by the large AQs and IBs they have painted on their backs. Only a meathead like Odierno would think to antagonize both the Sunni and the Shia at the same time. In essence, our troops will be sent in and shoot the place up. Then Odierno and Petraeus will claim that it is proof that the surge is working.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6944543.stm
The British have recently been complaining about the Americans’ reliance on air power in Afghanistan, where stretched-thin Special Forces units have been calling in air strikes when they lack the numbers to conduct effective ground ops. The reliance on air strikes has resulted in increasing numbers of Afghan civilian deaths and a commensurate erosion of public support. Bear in mind that these strikes are not, as a rule, being conducted in urban environments where population density multiplies “collateral” deaths.
If the British in Basra are so desperate as to embrace a war-fighting method that is a) counterproductive and b) fiercely criticized when implemented elsewhere, then things must be very bad indeed. The claim that the strikes carried out by 617 Squadron are being conducted against “insurgent positions” is also dubious; insurgents rarely establish fixed positions. The more likely reality is that these “insurgent positions” encompass any place in Basra where the British aren’t, which is to say everywhere but their redoubt in Basra Palace.
There’s a historical irony in the fact that it’s the famous Dambusters Squadron conducting this bombing campaign. Their forebears’ spectacular WWII raid against dams in the Ruhr valley promised to shorten the war by crippling German industry. In fact, the strategic impact of breaching several dams was shallow, and the death by inundation of German civilians downriver furthered the hardening of public attitudes. 617’s Basra ops won’t do any better.
Obama fans are advised to look beyond rhetoric (he *is* an engaging speaker) to substance. There is less of it there, but chat for a while with his staffers and see what you think.
johnSwifty @ 80
Dubya is always worried about his legacy. This is going to be his legacy: Warren Harding. Who? Exactly.
football:
I knew that. And we should all know that by now, after Beckham said football and then corrected himself when he first got to LA….*g*
Support Richardson- he’s the ONLY candidate who promises to immediately leave I- Rock and take EVERYTHING out.
Biodun @ 87
So much easier to differentiate when it’s spelled futball
Dubya says that the secret to victory in I rock is to kill more I Rockies.
rwcole @ 88
I remember Nixon promising to leave Vietnam.
*That* worked out well.
With the departure of Rove, a disturbing possibility occurs to me: If Gonzales and Darth cheney were to both resign in the very near future, might Dubya pardon both, a la Ford’s blanket pardon of Nixon, and follow it with his own resignation? Wouldn’t that be the political equivalent of a pre-emptive strike? Pelosi would find herself in a horrendous situation to sort out while the parties argue about who is responsible for the mess the country is in. Might this be the drunk frat boy exit consistent with Crawford Village Idiot’s past behavior?
mack @ 91
I left!
Get Tough @ 81
I mean that Obama was shown the ropes in the Senate by none other than Lieberman, and has taken on Lieberman’s crappy “bipartisan” meme. I don’t want anyone who has any affiliation with Lieberman–philosophically or otherwise–anywhere near the oval office.
rwcole @ 90
I actually think that is the strategy.
Decimate the social structure until a puppet regime is viable.
Not a particular good strategy, IMHO.
Get Tough @ 85
At least Harding had that great head of hair. Ultimately, I think that is why the GOP fears Edwards.
But, seriously, do you really think Dubya is worried about anything. He’s got the classic Alfred E. Newman perma-grin going these days and if his brain isn’t fried from lime disease then it’s the methane leaking up from the Crawford ranch foundation or the daily ‘meds.’ Whatever…the man simply doesn’t look like he has the ability to think past tomorrow, much less 100 years into the future.
rwcole @ 87
What about Kucinich?
raven @ 93
It took a little longer than expected IIRC.
mack @ 90
It would be just as irreponsible for the US to out and out leave as it was for the Bushies to invade in the first place. Phased withdrawal is the only way to ensure safety for the troops/diplomats/civil servants, and maintain some semblance of security. Bring in the Blue Helmets, get some more help from the Brits and other European countries, which will come if the plan is to withdrawal and not suck up Iraq’s oil.
Biodun @ 23
Do you think Gordon Brown wants to be called anyone’s poodle? He seems to have a lot better head on his shoulders. He sees how Iraq ruined Tony Blair’s career, I don’t think Gordon Brown wants to follow him down that rabbit hole.
johnSwifty @ 81
Are you sure it wasn’t his brain stem?
mack @ 98
You said it, we sat on a runway in Guam for 6 hours waiting on a 141!
Helpless Dancer @ 100
No, actually, I’m not. Good point!
And this:
Something that W is definitely not going to concede to Congress.
you funny, Helpless Dancer…
Yeah, everything he touches turns to shit. Including the Constution. And he had a lot of help from the Dems.
yellowsnapdragon @ 94
Has anyone asked Obama if he now disavows his HoJo association?
RW Cole at 79:
That mine owner should have “lying mother#@%&*@” stamped on his forehead.
I thought his type vanished in the early 20th century.
Get Tough @ 99
Screw responsibility – the majore problem with immediate withdrawl at this point is logistics..
We have painted ourselves into a corner.
cynic @ 105
Who the HELL let him touch the constitution?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 99
You’re saying exactly what I’m saying.
yellowsnapdragon @ 93
Lieberman’s “bipartisanship” boils down to this (and I am not going to go on a Lieberman rant): Protect Israel=Neo-Cons. Everything else=Democrat/Progressive. Obama’s bipartisanship is more complex, fluid and reasoned. That’s what is needed to accomplish anything in DC these days. Trust me.
Raven — “6 hours waiting on a 141″ is nothing when you’re as “short” as you were. You’d have stayed six days if need be.
TexBetsy @ 110
40-odd percent of the electorate and whatever portion of Congress which voted for the Patriot Act.
It’s been downhill from there.
Get Tough @ 111
Please offer proof of how Lieberman is progressive.
rwcole @ 78
Law suits? He should be charged with Capital Murder but negligent homicide is probably more realistic. The Federal Mine Safety official who approved pillar removal should also be charged. I would suspect that any “real” investigation would reveal the usual Republican trail of graft, corruption and death.
rwcole @ 70
Shrub had his retina detached when he was attacked by the Rold Goldo Bandito!!
jim oconnor @ 17
Even Kerry could have used it.
Hugh @ 83
Little bit o Sunni. Little bit o Shia. Merkins think they all Al Kaida led by Saddam Obama Hussein and the MSM ain’t gonna tell em no differnt. David Gregory included.
Get Tough @ 82
Where is the Edwards quote? Have a link?
this just in:
Video: Hillary Gets OJ Simpson’s Endorsement
rwcole @ 78
I think Mr. Murray, the mine owner, has made it clear that HE is the victim in all of this, and he is confident that the MSM will buy his line that the miners were trapped by a “seismic event”.
Of course, those idiot scientists at the University of Utah keep saying that the cave-in was the seismic event.
“In loyalty to their kind, they cannot tolerate our minds, In loyalty to our kind, we cannot tolerate their obstruction” – Jefferson Airplane, “Crown of Creation”
Steve-AR @ 116
He’s shielded by the corporate veil(damn that pesky limited liability). If anything the corporation will be charged and it will cost them nothing but money.
This Bob Murray a grade-A douchebag.
He reminds me of Ted Knight in Caddy Shack.
-GSD
This is good. Votevets asking NFL to pressure bush to release Tillman documents:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..licits-nfl’s-help-obtaining-tillman-documents/
The second story misidentifies Tony Cordesman as a US official. He’s with a think tank and was the third guy with the two “experts” who did the dog and phony show a couple weeks back. Remember the guys who labeled themselves as “critics”but said they saw progress, until Glenn Greenwald debunked them as war promoters? Cordesman wrote a separate report, less positive than theirs. And now he’s pissed off the Brits.
TexBetsy @ 121
Wow. You weren’t joking. Disturbing…
Rayne @ 30
Y’know, I usually consider myself one of the “grammar police” [I apologize], but even I thought that last dust up was ridiculous.
One of the rules at MY Grammar Police Academy was “if it sounds awkward, don’t do it. Re-arrange the sentence, omit the phrase, whatever.”
The “people/person” kerfluffle just didn’t light my fire.
TexBetsy @ 114
Affirmative action: In 1995, he stated that he is “against group preferences,” but in 2000 he recanted and said he supports affirmative action, and in 2004 he supported federal funding for women and minority contractors on highway projects.
Education: He has supported experimental voucher programs, and criticized President Bush for failing to fund the “No Child Left Behind” program.
Environment: He cosponsored the 1990 Clean Air Act, and says the US must accept responsibility for global warming.
Gay rights: Lieberman voted against a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, but opposes legalizing same-sex marriage.
Gun control: Lieberman has supported gun control measures and has received an “F” rating from the National Rifle Association.
Health care: He has criticized Bush’s Medicare plan for insufficient funding. He strongly supports embryonic stem cell research.
Social Security: In 2005, Lieberman urged Congress to reject the Social Security Commission’s report that recommended private accounts for social security.
Tax, labor, and business: In 1994, Lieberman voted to maintain a tax loophole that allowed companies to avoid recording stock options as an expense. He has opposed much of the Bush tax plan.
Flag burning: Lieberman voted against amending the Constitution to criminalize flag burning.
Get Tough @ 111
I wish I could trust you on that, but every time I hear “bipartisanship”, the result is always far worse than the problem, FISA for example. Faux “bipartisanship” is part of the problem, NOT the solution.
rwcole @ 44
seen the price of gas lately? that’s the only reason his JAR is up. I could stand $4 a gallon gas if it finally meant impeachment!
JK’s conscience @ 120
I saw it over at TPM, posted it on the last thread, in EPU-land.
Get Tough @ 99
This is just wrong on so many levels. No country is going to send in troops into this quagmire, not the UN, not the British (who are moving to leave), not the Europeans. A phased withdrawal can be responsibly accomplished in about 9 months. Bad things are fairly likely to occur no matter when or how we leave.
As I have been trying to point out recently, withdrawal should be based on what our underlying post-occupation policy toward Iraq will be. So far I have heard nothing from either Republicans or Democrats on this. This leads me to suspect that when we do leave it will be under less than optimal conditions with less than optimal planning.
Jane:
The trick to being an effective threat as an ass-kicker is to never try to kick someone’s ass and fail.
Oops.
It is a shame that history faded from use in guiding political thought, it seems America has become an intellectual island where 50 years is a figment of the past with no relevance to many political leaders any thing beyond that point are seen as events useful only if it can be taken out of context to shore up an opinion or transfigured in to a mythological icon (often bearing little resemblance to the actual events or persons). Little boots must have had quite a pile of classic comics and the key to daddies liquor cabinet, to have so little grasp of history and the world, or to have such a twisted view of things.
TexBetsy @ 114:
No one is saying this…
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 119
I saw it in the prior thread–sorry, no link.
TexBetsy @ 120
The kiss of death…
johnSwifty @ 96
George W. Bush should replace Benedict Arnold as the most despised name in American History. To use a fictional analogy, Bush should be the “Wellington Yueh”, a man to be cursed for generations.
Steve-AR @ 116
I’ve seen manslaughter charged in drunk driving cases.
I cannot rid myself of the feeling there’s a ticking time bomb somewhere. And it’s a big bomb. Still waiting for the other shoe to drop. My friend tells me she has a queasy feeling about this whole Rove business. On the basis of that, you could say I now feel queasy too. Just sitting here in limbo you might say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY0IXwsCxZI
Aloha Ya’ll! Here’s the latest Flossie mug shot!
http://www.goes.noaa.gov/GIFS/HAIR.JPG
Get Tough @ 138
http://johnedwards.com/news/he…..karl-rove/
Oklahoma kiddo @ 142
Well one thing to be nervous about is this California vote thing, which could screw Dems royally in the 2008 election. Anyone know how great a threat this is to go through? Daily Kos has a diary on it.
CTuttle @ 142
Quite the eye! What is the latest forecast?
Steve-AR @ 140
Yueh had some good qualities.
Shrub’s good qualities boil down to ‘you might be willing to have a beer with him’.
Hugh @ 133
Wrong because it is not irresponsible, thus responsible, for the US to withdraw without consideration of what we are leaving behind? The US did that once before and millions of people were wiped out in short order. The Blue Helmets is a reference to the UN. Of course the Europeans are not going to get involved right now. But if the plan is to withdrawal and maintain some semblance of security, other countries will get on board.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 141
Maybe it’s just simply that he cannot be still on staff when his incipient indictment comes down.
I think if a real chimpanzee had been in the white house these 61/2 years things could not have gone any more wrong.
Amilius @ 92
I expect Bush to offer a blanket pardon to everyone in the executive branch for everything they might or might not have done during the past eight years.
Mother Jones’ take on Rove:
It would have been the spring of 1969, the Vietnam War in full swing, when a scrawny 18-year-old in a suit and tie and horn-rimmed glasses pushed a handcart stacked with 10 boxes into a classroom at Olympus High School, on the outskirts of Salt Lake City. Each shoebox was stuffed with four-by-six notecards pasted with evidence clipped from newspapers, magazines, and scholarly journals. As the young man and his partner unpacked their evidence on a small table at the front of the room, members of the other policy debate team looked on in horror. They’d only brought one shoebox.
What they didn’t know was that 99 percent of the notecards in the Olympus team’s 10 shoeboxes were just props. Even at 18, the scrawny kid with the horn-rims understood the power of intimidation.”Rove didn’t just want to win,” James Moore and Wayne Slater write in their book Rove Exposed: How Bush’s Brain Fooled America. “He wanted the opponents destroyed. His worldview was clear even then. There was his team and the other team, and he would make the other team pay.”
TexBetsy @ 114
Depends on how you define “progressive.” The original progressive, Teddy Roosevelt, split from his part and ran against it (sound familiar).
But that’s probably not what you mean in a modern definition of the term.
rwcole @ 46
The Labour Party and Political Change in Scotland 1918-29 – wiki.
jim oconnor @ 17
Jim: If I ever run for President, I want you to be my campaign manager. Love the way you think.
Oh my bad, I thought this was a post about the new Democrat controlled Congress.
Forgive me.
N=1 @ 146
We’re under a Hurricane watch, 36 hrs out! Schools canceled tomorrow, they expect it to lessen from a Cat 4 to Cat 1 and lash the southern part of the Big Isle, where my folks and Grandmother live! It should be interesting!
clean up at 156
Loo Hoo. @ 27
Bingo. Per one Steve Gilley.
TiredFed @ 132
Prices started backing off a while ago. We are now into the seasonal downturn in gas prices. It came a little earlier this year because of the pushback from the refinery price manipulations. High crude prices may have leant some support in mid-summer to gas prices (although as I like to point out the price of oil and gasoline are directly coupled) but crude oil prices have slid back $70-72/bbl (largely because there was no real rationale for them being so high in the first place.
Milan River @ 149
So true. It isn’t just the Christain hypocrits getting a hold of the domestic agenda, but it’s Katrina, Iraq, Global Warming, more terrorists, less stability. The Bushies have not done ONE thing right, and even a guy as conservative and afraid of Clinton like Bruce Fein is literally screaming at the top of his lungs on Moyer’s for the grown-ups to do something. Bush=Harding, with dash of Grant, alot of Pierce (Bar Bush’s ancestors, mind you) and Nixon.
wigwam @ 150
You bet. I wish I could buy stock in that.
Holy Shit!!!
The Cheney Quagmire video just made MSM. Coming up now on CNN – Situation Room.
LS @ 163
You mean this one?
-GSD
As the current republican plan is escalation and there is no withdrawal plan on the table from either party, a withdrawal may be a clusterfuck of massive proportions. Black Hawk Down was pinned on Clinton. Bush I sent the troops underprepared, undermanned, and of course underequipped. Clinton got them out in a clusterfuck and got the blame pinned on him.
This scenario may be a republican strategy and plan for withdrawal.
LS @ 161
What’s the quagmire video?
Scarecrow @ 127
Glenn tried to interview Cordesman, see: http://letters.salon.com/opini…..bdfca.html
Anthony Cordesman will be on Charlie Rose tonight.
CTuttle @ 157
Have family near Milolii…hope they’ll be okay since they’re on the water.
Get Tough @ 166
Saw it. Talk about your flipflops!!!! Why is this coming out now, and not in 2004!!!!
Get Tough @ 166
here (Cheney, in 1994, on Iraq. Or in the conservatory, with the wrench.)
Did y’all talk about this one today?
Ney Aide Wore Wire To Help FBI Build Its Case
When all these things start happening, I do have to wonder whats next and then I put on my thinking cap. http://www.facebook.com/photo……=528726003
Rayne @ 168
Any forecast re hitting Maui? How about Kauai — we have friends who just left to vacation there for two weeks!!
Sammy row your boat ashore:
Senator Brownback of Kansas, the third-place finisher, declared as he often does in his stump speech: “All for Jesus. All for Jesus. All for Jesus. All for Jesus.”
-GSD
Oklahoma kiddo @ 142
To paraphrase T.S. Eliot “How does the world end? Not with a bang but with a whimper.”
Interesting that Anthony Cordesman is a “right-wing commentator and adviser” while O’Hanlon and Pollack are “war critics”.
*xyz @ 168
Charlie Rose is gonna fluff him good. I hope he’s ready to be a hero.
When Bush had his health check up did he get a mental exam also? Was he clinically pronounced mentally fit for duty?
maybe i’m just dumb, but it seems to me that the powers that be have an agenda. an agenda that nobody in the public is aware of. i’m not smart enough to know what that agenda is but it seems to involve making alot of money via a war machine. i will never buy the argument that these people are incompetent. that’s just not feasible. i believe thier ‘cover’ is incompetence and ignorance, which allows them to run roughshod over everything. i think this has been going on since the day they killed kennedy.
but that’s just me, a skeptical cynic.
GSD @ 175
This man is absolutely without a doubt looney. When will he drop out? Not soon enough for me. I think he is dangerous to this country, but what Repug isn’t.
Rayne @ 168
That’s within the cone, they should be wary! I live in Hilo and am shielded by Mauna Loa and Kilauea from the brunt of it, yet I’ve secured all loose items in my yard from the winds and hope for the best!
Get Tough @ 148
We already know what we are leaving behind, a bad situation. Despite our ongoing presence, things have been getting worse not better. When we leave it is likely they will get considerably worse. That is, however, true if we had left last year or now or next year. We can coordinate our departure with the Iraqis to attempt to minimize power vacuums but it is unlikely that this will be very successful. The main thing about our withdrawal is that it should not be subject to conditions on the ground in Iraq. That is harsh, but if we do, we will be held hostage there forever.
The aftermath will be managing chaos, a not unexpected result of such a massively failed policy. That is just reality.
Ours is still the preeminent military on the planet. If we could not succeed in Iraq, no one else will, and more importantly no one else is going to try. UN forces are made up of contributions from member states. These states are not going to send their troops into a meatgrinder for anyone’s sake.
GSD @ 174
That should immediately disqualify him for anything but an altar call.
Milan River @ 179
They did a scan on his head and found nothing.
The Brits used a different strategy in Basra, but managed to come up with Bremeresque levels of stupidity on their own. See “Prince of the Marshes” for a first hand, sympathetic, account of what utter ignorance, arrogance, fecklessness, and incompetence can accomplish!
CTuttle @ 181
Take care and be safe.
Situation Room on Rove going dove hunting…”There’s a Dick Cheney joke in there somewhere”…
Milan River @ 179
No. He was seen by a neurologist, and there is an odd statement that was attached to his “recent viral ailment” described as “intermittent disorientation” as opposed to diseqilibrium. However, no psychiatrist or other mental health professional was listed as a member of his health evaluation team.
Biodun @ 139
Are you saying that where OJ leads, others follow? Who knows, maybe Duke Cunningham will endorse her too.
Didn’t someone here write that the Brits have an exit strategy from Iraq?
mauimom @ 173
Southern shores of Maui is expected to receive some storm surge, Kauai is safe for now, but, I would still be concerned for them, Iniki pretty much followed the same track and the eye went straight over it!
N=1 @ 187
What? I never heard the “intermittent disorientation”…Gees, I’d be alarmed if I had something like that…now…where was I….
CTuttle @ 143
Dang, CTuttle. Batten down the hatches, buddy.
N=1 really? Disorientation?
TexBetsy @ 110
I assume you’re kidding (please, God) He took an oath to defend and support it. Now lemmie see, first, there’s the fourth amendment. Then….well, that’s enough for a start and a finish. But like I said, aided and abetted by the Dems (who didn’t even read the so-called PATRIOT act). I don’t know about you, but I’m not voting for Hillary. She and Bill are a little to close to the Bush family to suit me, and they wern’t so hot on civil liberties when Big Dawg was President either. Unless you count the blo……oh, no, I’m not going there.
For anyone interested, here is a current picture of hurrican Flossie.
http://www.goes.noaa.gov/FULLDISK/GWIR.JPG
A surprising compact storm for its wind speeds. It is I believe still supposed to track south of the islands.
Milan River @ 194
Yes – it was in the MSNBC story. I didn’t see it listed out in as much detail in the Reuters, AP or other accounts.
N=1 @ 198
Speaking of MSNBC, did anyone see Digby’s new take on Tweety?
‘howdy’ from France! has the coup occurred yet?
rod @ 177
Turns out that all of them are warmongers! They will disagree on insignificant details, but in the end, their approval of Dubya’s GWOT will be unanimous.
Put em all together one one show and you’ve got Hannity and Colmes or the Washington Generals vs The Harlem Globetrotters.
One neutral host (really a right winger), one DLC type posing as a liberal (will concede his point every time) and two right wingers is generally the way the shows are set up on all the news networks.
Cheney was right pre-9/11
Cheney was wrong post-9/11
Period.
Thanks N=1
from the Bush Pronounced Fit For Duty After Physical MSNBC story
Punaise! BonSoir!
punaise @ 199
We miss you but hope you are having a wonderful time.
Get Tough @ 148
Why do you think the UN will be able to maintain order when the largest military in the world is not able to?
The UN are theoretically peace keepers and there is no peace to keep.
I’m in a household with one computer (DSL, at leqst) and sixteen people, three-fourths of whom ‘need’ internet access…and the French keyboard is a lot different.
N=1 @ 204
Bet those sinuses are in real good shape.
Are they serving hot dogs on the Champs Elysees?
Milan River @ 210
not in Paris. seafood and crepes in Brittany. catch you all in about ten days!
CNN actually showed the cheney 1994 quagmire video? I’m shocked. I didn’t think I’d ever see that on msm.
I keep telling people, whenever some bombshell comes out, that they could have learned that on the toobz 2 or 3 years ago.
LS @ 126
this link has page not found
LS @ 163
You wouldn’t think they had enough brains to find it on the net…….much less alone show it.
*xyz @ 168
Iirc, Kos is supposed to be on tonite also.
LS @ 163
SEE! There is a goddess! And she loves us!
OT …
… from today’s Edwards e-mail … gee, I really like the way these people put things:
“We are using B20 biodiesel, a cleaner fuel, to run our bus—and clean money to fuel our campaign. My campaign runs on money from people like you—not from D.C. lobbyists or political action committees.”
To CTuttle, Bob Schact, and all other ‘dogs in HI, be careful and safe!
alnen11 @ 156
Hey Karl, how you doin?
#213
Linky:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..licits-nfl’s-help-obtaining-tillman-documents/
It’s the punctuation in the link that’s messing it up. (that’s percent-e2 percent-80 percent-99 between the l of nfl and the s following it, it’s breaking when posted. Go to thinkprogress and scroll down, it’s in one of the grey boxes.)
BINGO!
You win a prize.. of some kind for that title.
Karls’ cryin and goin home only cause he ain’t the daddy anymore.
Fred Fielding is.
And do you know what happens when you stare at monkeys and don’t give them treats??
The shits’ going to start really flying.
Just watch
I thought we did that already in Vietnam?
Get Tough @ 112
I’m not especially interested in ANY Democrat who wants to ‘reason’ with the current crop of Conservative NeoCon-ish Republicans.
America has problems to solve and we need Democratic majorities to get things done in a hurry. Compromise isn’t out the window, but we shouldn’t slow ourselves down to seeking huge victories on every little bill that needs passing.
TexBetsy @ 121
Democrats don’t listen to Rove, Bush or any Republicans or even the lowly-esteemed OJ Simpson. We pick our own leaders, for good or bad.