Coldplay's "Talk"
Back in April, we talked about the campaign to put elected representatives in districts where the public sentiment was clearly against the Iraq failure on the spot: to force a choice between the constituents and George Bush. As Jane said, it is high time that the Republicans had to own the quagmire of their own making.
Today, the WaPo has a piece about constituents taking that message directly to one of those elected officials. This is exactly the idea behind the You Work For Us Summer Tour. And I wanted to be sure that you all got a peek:
The woman stood waiting amid the lunch counter clatter at the Grand City Variety Store to confront Olympia J. Snowe.
"We need to get out," Stephanie Slocum told Snowe, one of Congress's most conflicted members over the war in Iraq. It was the Maine Republican's first week of her summer break, and Slocum was among the first of many constituents who would tell her the time to act is now.
The self-described "proud mother of an Army cavalry scout," Slocum is taking Iraq personally. She told Snowe in a matter-of-fact voice about her 27-year-old son, who is now home but shouts angrily at her, whose body trembles, who at times feels he is still in Iraq and who, if Congress does not begin to redeploy troops by September, will be sent back. She spoke of her son's leave that never came, the goggles to protect him that she had to buy herself and the mental health treatment he has just given up. Because, he told his mom, "what's the sense" if he has to go back.
"Outrageous," Snowe said of the problems. "I would encourage him to continue to get his care."
"I do, but you know how it is," Slocum said. "In the Army . . . if you get the therapy, it's shame on you."
As she spoke, Slocum's poise slipped, and her voice shook. She was frustrated, most of all, with the failure of Washington to make it end -- and frustrated, too, with Snowe's careful hedging on Iraq. "I think you've changed your position a little bit, and we're very appreciative of that," she told her senator. "But it doesn't seem like whatever we think -- as the majority of people in Maine and across the country -- it doesn't seem to have any impact."...
James bit her lip: "I'm proud of my service. I'm glad it's done." During her year in the Green Zone, "we started getting mortared heavily, very, very heavily," James said, describing the attacks' escalating from two or three in a week to 19 in a single day. People she knew were killed.
"Do you see any progress?" Snowe asked.
"The Iraqis say it's taken so long for everything to get so bad, in 40 years, it will be good," James said. "Forty years is a long time."
This is exactly the sort of thing that every elected person in Congress needs to be confronted with, every damn day of their "vacation." It's called reality. (H/T to OKK for this link. It's a painful read.) Welcome to life outside the Beltway, kids -- where your constituents are disgusted with your insular, ill-informed, patronage-laden pandering to the Bush Administration and your outright disrespect toward how the rest of America feels.
And it isn't just the mendacity on Iraq. The FISA bill is a horrid abomination of civil liberties violations:
Therefore, as long as the government is engaged in “surveillance directed at a person reasonably believed to be located outside of the United States,” it cannot possibly run afoul of FISA’s criminal or civil liability provisions, even if it totally disregards all of the procedures and oversight requirements spelled out in the bill. There’s no penalty for non-compliance.
It is imperative that members of Congress and the media be made aware of the full scope of this bill. It is not as advertised. By carving out a large category of surveillance activities from the definition of “electronic surveillance,” the bill effectively exempts such surveillance from FISA altogether. And while the bill purports to establish conditions and procedures for conducting warrantless surveillance, these requirements are effectively optional and, in any case, there is no penalty in the statute for disobeying them. Those lawmakers who voted for this bill need to be confronted with these facts and shamed into doing something to correct the situation.
It is time that each and every one of these people gets an earful and then some. If you go to a public meeting, set up a private discussion for you and several of your political pals, get a response to a letter or e-mail or FAX, let us know about it. If you blog about contact with your elected representative, let us know about it. Every bit of public accountability that we can get out there makes it that much harder for them to close out transparency in government. It is our job to let in the light, because they sure as hell won't be doing it for us willingly, now will they?
It's time for every single member of Congress to get a "performance review" -- and it isn't going to be pretty for most of them, is it? They need to know that we expect them to work for us.
Citizenship has to be something that we do. So let's get out there and do it. And then report back here what happened -- because we want to be sure that they all know that we are paying attention, each and every day. And that when they screw up, we'll be there to tell them -- and to expect them to do better or face the electoral consequences. Now, let's get to work...
PS -- Glenn has his interview with O'Hanlon up. Do give it a read.
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We’re going to be confronting Don Young Monday, in Anchorage. I’ll try to have pictures up at my facebook page, with a public link, by Monday latenight here.
ET at 1 — Excellent. Wonder how his discussions with the FBI have been going of late? *g* Oh wait, was that Young, or Stevens, or Murkowski…or all three?
Ooops — the WaPo link didn’t take. Had to put it back into the post. Sorry about that, gang…if you refresh now, it is there.
from the Greenwald - O’Hanlon interview, linked to above by Christy:
GG: Given that some of the claims in your Op-Ed are based upon your conversations with Iraqis, and that the Iraqis with whom you spoke were largely if not exclusively ones provided to you by the U.S. military, shouldn’t that fact have been included in your Op-Ed?
MO: If the suggestion is that in a 1,400 word Op-Ed, we ought to have mentioned that, I can understand that criticism, and if we should have included that, I apologize for not having done so. But I want to stress that the focus here was on the perspective of the U.S. military, and I did a lot of probing of what I was told, and remain confident in the conclusions that we reached about the military successes which we highlighted. But if you’re suggesting that some of our impressions might have been shaped by the military’s selection of Iraqis, and that we might have disclosed that, that is, I think, fair enough.
duh…?
At my site I’ve been asking readers to contact their reps about the FISA bill. Citizens are contacting Republicans and spineless Dems. One wrote the following to Senator Feinstein after receiving her explanation, and allowed me to post it at my place:
Dear Sen. Feinstein,
As a follow-up to my two recent letters to you re your yes vote on the FISA bill, I would like to respond to the letter you received from DNI McConnell, in which he assured you that the spy agency has no plans to cast an improperly wide net.
You participated in the hearings at which AG Gonzales was questioned extensively on matters having to do with Gonzales’ trustworthiness, as well as the trustworthiness of the President and his team, which includes his political appointees and McConell. By now, you must know that the Bush administration cannot be trusted. It cannot be trusted to perform its responsibilities and duties to the American people within our legal jurisdictions, and it cannot be trusted to tell anyone the truth about anything it is doing. And at this point in its administration, many Americans would admit that it cannot be trusted to exercise a level of judgment and competence that we need from it.
I was also struck by McConnell’s wordplay with the phrase “has no plans.” This is clearly a ploy to prevent him or his staff from possibly committing perjury at any future hearings, if they are ever asked whether or not they have lived up to their promises to you in that letter. Why did he not assure you that he and the agency he oversees is committed to remaining strictly within the legal jurisdictions the American people expect of them?
This new FISA law does not give the Bush administration greater ability to wiretap suspected terorists. The 1978 version gave them that tool. What this new law does is to give President Bush the ability to conduct surveillance on Americans, even those not suspected of terrorism, and it eliminates congressional oversight and all-but-eliminates judicial oversight of their surveillance activities.
This is not a liberal/conservative issue. This is a U.S. Constitution issue.
I sincerely hope you will give this matter further study and consideration, and retract your vote.
Another reader received the following response from Ohio Rep. Charlie Wilson:
“The bill I supported was passed on Friday night. Unfortunately that was not the bill that the Senate passed. The version left on the table was unsatisfactory, but it was better than leaving the American people unprotected for the next few months. The legislation that ultimately passed both the Senate and the House, the version that I voted for, is a temporary solution and I’m confident we’ll revisit this issue when Congress returns in September. Again, this was not my choice of bills but to leave America unprotected was not an option.”
Thanks to Firedoglake for leading the charge.
Ed*ard Teller @ 4
Yes, I am a stenographer…?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 2
If Diane Benson had had the money Young’s attorneys have spent on lunch over the past few months, she would have beat that rabid congresscritter.
By the way, Wilson’s response, posted above, is obviously bullshit.
Forgot to mention that, but then again it’s as plain as the nose on your face.
Hey, I read first! Thanks Christy!
Bob in HI
Ed*ard Teller @ 4
Telling, isn’t it? Such dishonesty in the MSM.
The Repubs think they work for Cheney.
With some of the Repubs I don’t think soul-searching is something they will do. Fund searchng is their thing.
Ed*ard Teller @ 4
It’s equal parts O’Hanlon trying to monopolize the conversation and playacting that he still has any credibility left to protect.
I gritted my teeth and contacted Senator Richard Shelby (R-AL) about my opposition to the war in Iraq. His response:
(my bold)
Sidney Blumenthal is now on kpfk.org talking about how the FISA fix got passed.
Hugh @ 12
And in this case, it’s not what you say, but how you look when you’re saying it. Eddie Izzard was right.
According to a blogger I was reading yesterday, Rep. Jay Inslee is not making appearances in the Seattle area during his vacation. http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/25608
I’m calling his office in the morning to ask why.
In the meantime, if the information that I have is correct, Sen. Patty Murray did not vote on FISA. I’m curious to know the answer to that as well.
-S
it’s very frustrating how few of our representatives and sentators actually have open town hall meetings with the people they represent. i wish they all did what senator feingold does - and schedule an open meeting in each county every year. that’s 72 open meetings a year…
Lindy @ 13
My bold.
Respond and ask him why the troops were not given enough resources to fight properly in the first place and remind him that we defeated the Axis powers in less time than we’ve spent in Iraq as well as less time in our own Civil War.
Ms. Slocum needs to realize she just answered her own fucking question: when you tell Olympia Snowe, or any other Bush-Cheney Administration dead-ender that you’re *APPRECIATIVE* of the way they’ve slightly changed their spin without doing jack-fucking-shit to challenge the Administration, you’ve just said, “Hi, I’m not going to hold you accountable and call you on your Bush-enabling bullshit.”
When people wonder why what they think their message is, isn’t reaching politicians, IT’S BECAUSE THEY AREN’T SENDING IT.
Selise at 17 — That’s one of the things I’m hoping to change with this push this month. People had stopped asking for these sorts of meetings and discussions, because they felt like no one was really listening. And that gives elected officials the excuse to shut us out.
No more. That just makes me want to push this all the more — because they have to be reminded, consistently, that the voices of the lobbyists and “policy advisors” are not the only voices that ought to be heard. And they particularly need to be constantly reminded that they work for us.
selise @ 17
I suspect that’s part of what keeps her in the Senate. She may not actually be in touch with her constituents, but at least she’s going through the motions, and they get to tell her how they feel about things. Makes it seem like they have a voice.
Strategerie at 16 — I’d love to know that answer from Patty Murray as well. As far as I’ve been able to find, her office hasn’t answered it — why she wasn’t there for the vote. If you get an answer on that one, please let us know.
Strategerie @ 16
According to The Hill,
She’s made a couple of public appearances, but none near me. Yet. I’ll keep looking.
ohdave at 5 — Thanks so much for that. Really appreciate the details and the contact information.
cujo, i think you’re confusing feingold with feinstein……which i have done before, way back when……until i memorized it by thinking he is made of gold…..feingold………
Christy Hardin Smith @ 20
The Democrats were all mad to get out of Washington as soon as possible for their August vacation and didn’t really care what kind of a FISA bill they passed. It’s clear now too that they weren’t in a rush to meet with their constituents either (whom, in fact, they seem mostly to want to hide from). That pretty much leaves their big contributors. Surprise, surprise.
Criminal Republicans, worthless Democrats. The political mantra of our times.
“Outrageous,” Snowe said of the problems. “I would encourage him to continue to get his care.”
i find that response insulting and insincere. did snowe stomp her little feet as she was saying it.
ms slocum has far more self-control than i could have exhibited in that circumstance. my heart breaks for what is happening to these young men and women.
‘The army is worn out. We are just keeping people in theatre who are exhausted,’ says a soldier working for the US army public affairs office who is supposed to be telling me how well things have been going since the ’surge’ in Baghdad began.
They are not supposed to talk like this. We are driving and another of the public affairs team adds bitterly: ‘We should just be allowed to tell the media what is happening here. Let them know that people are worn out. So that their families know back home. But it’s like we’ve become no more than numbers now.’
http://observer.guardian.co.uk.....52,00.html
Christy Hardin Smith @ 20
amen. in the past, i’ve called my representatives about specific issues. i think i’m going to start calling them asking for a schedule of open town hall. every citizen should have the opportunity to ask their own questions. and hear their representative’s answers.
i’m sick of those who only come out for fund raising and campaigning.
dmac @ 25
If Feingold is made of gold, what is Feinstein made of?
Don’t answer that.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 22
I read somewhere that Murray’s office explained that she had some sort of family obligation, and was somehow surprised by the vote. I’m still trying to Google, but if it was in some blog comments somewhere I might never find it.
Crooks and Liars has part of the Kos-Ford MTP interview up. I can’t tell you how super pissed at Ford, and the DLC I am for framing the anti-war movement in terms of anti-Semitism. Ford claims here, in reference to opposition to the war by progressives that there are anti-Isr*el comments on Daily Kos. The DLC (Schumer, Hoyer, Emmanuel, Lieberman etc) and their supporters have crossed the boundary of decency. This sort of thing also was part of the earlier Iraq war build up, and at the place I work, the pro-invasion people sought to identify the anti-war group not so much as being unpatriotic , but as anti-Semitic and disinterested in the well-being of the Isr*el state. This issue was also a central undertone in the Lieberman campaign in among other things the support of him by NYC mayor Bloomberg and former mayor Ed Koch. Much of the NYC media reaches Connecticut voters, and many of the latter work in the NYC area so this had a major impact. The fact that Ford (and the DNC) are now throwing this back at those of us opposed to this ludicrous war and its further escalation through an attack on Iran as the war engines are gearing up again is as untenable (and abominable) as it is illuminating into how estranged they are from reality. This view is one of those horrible catch-22 type situations, like “when did you stop beating your wife.” If you deny there is anti-Semitism in your anti-war stance, you are seen to be reinforcing the fact that you are. I find this truly despicable.
dmac @ 25
Ummm, you’re right, and I should know better.
Richmond at 31 — Yes, Mr. Ford does have this nasty habit of quoting Joe Lieberman-isms, which come straight out of the Rove consultant GOP meme playbook. SIGH
ohdave at 29 says-”If Feingold is made of gold, what is Feinstein made of?
Don’t answer that.”
yeaaah, as i typed that i started to add-and feinstein is made of……and couldn’t think of anything good, thought of steel, pewter, but then thought-feinstein is made of MONEY……..but didn’t add it, you troublemaker……….
Christy Hardin Smith @ 22
Christy, I’ll be happy to. In the meantime, it’s time for the Strategerie household to write a nice check to Darcy Burner’s campaign. We need answers, and if these folks don’t want to give them, perhaps we should elect someone who does.
-S
dmac @ 34
Iron pyrite
One of the things I find interesting is that far too many of our Democratic “leaders” aren’t coming home to hear from their constituents , but are instead “fact-finding” or “supporting” other Congress Critters.
Mikulski, Hoyer, Pelosi — where are you now?
The more I read about Harold Ford this year, the more I understand why he didn’t beat Corker… and the more I understand why he landed at the Democratic Losers’ Council.
ohdave @ 29
Apparently, Murray had a family commitment.
The written response I received from the vomitous mass (Richard Baker-(R)LA)that reps my LA district,wrt troop redeployment,includes these cowpie gems:
“I am very concerned about the negative impact the surrender debate is having in Iraq…The weeks and weeks of pointless debate on our surrender date have clearly taken their toll in Iraq…As Iraqi Ambassador al-Istrabadi points out, the debates have been very painful to watch.”
Instead of the surge in Iraq, we should be having a purge in our congress.
Cujo359 @ 30
Ah, here it was:
From comments to an article by Taylor Marsh.
TheOtherWA @ 23
I thought Patty Murray had a family member who was seriously ill, but I haven’t found a cite for that. I’m so bad with names, that when something like that “sticks” in my memory, it usually is because the something was pretty significant. I’ll keep looking.
dakine01 @ 18
I cribbed from you. The whole letter made me mad. My response:
Lindy @ 13
Does Shelby even have any idea what he’s implying? He thinks this is a “test of wills;” therefore he thinks they should just lay down their arms to an obviously superior force? A force of 160,000 soldiers with withering equipment occupying a country of 22 million, give or take a few million, people who have no place else to go! As near as I can tell, those people have not been defeated in the field either, and they have a lot less reason, in fact, to surrender! So, what, we will just continue killing them one by one until they surrender in desperation no matter how many of our own soldiers we lose in the process? Good thing this is a test of wills and not of intelligence, that is, common sense. Shelby would surely lose! Someone should tell him the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.
Why are people like Harold Ford even bothering to be Democrats? Since they seem to agree with and embrace GOP talking points,framing and policy,why aren’t they freaking Republicans?
AAOB (#46), I think people like Ford and Lieberman are Democrats *because* it enables them to screw with us even more destructively.
Why anyone still falls for it is what baffles me…
Ann & Matt in AZ, I heard that Harry Mitchell was having a Townhall at the Ahwatukee Fire House next Wednesday, cannot find a time, has anyone heard about this event?
newtonusr=”Iron pyrite”
good one
charlie wilson’s schedule is mostly scheduled meetings and tours of facilities….mostly having to do with the farm bills…..two fairs…..
open house at his new office, too far for me to go to……..
be back later, good post christie……..
From Charlie Willson’s response, quoted above [emphasis added]:
Is this the pile of s**t that was peddled to/by the Dems as a reason to pass FISA? “Unprotected”????
This needs a LOT more inquiry!!!
Christy: the quote in your post above seems to jump from Ms. Slocum to someone named James. Is something missing??
Lindy @ 44
Although I hate that we have to do so, using their own words and framing against them is sometimes the only way to get their attention. I wish we could get them to admit that it was an invasion, occupation, and war of aggression and choice.
Good luck on getting any reasonable or valid response from him.
Glenn Greenwald squeezed important confessions out of O’Hanlon. O’Hanlon admits:
he was/is mischaracterized as anti-war.
his interviewees were hand picked by the DOD.
Rove’s Texas Five Step:
1.) O’Hanlon or any water carrier is presented to the public as an expert media liberal
2.) he produces a misleading pro-war success piece
3.) he gets called out on the misrepresentations in the story
4.) a correction is made on the back page or on the internet
5.) the story which is pure crap still stands as truth in the public domain.
O’Hanlon folded like a deck of cards when Greenwald worked him over. Will it matter? Only Hope remains in Pandora’s box.
just a tug at your coat, the last half is worth a listen. http://cache.libsyn.com/dancarlin/cswdcb01.mp3
Apologies if this has already been discussed, but have we seen Froomkin on Friday? More to talk to “them” about.
Cheney’s Secret Escalation Plan
oh the irony…
US Attorney General visits Iraq, says its legal system has improved.
The Associated Press
Saturday, August 11, 2007
WASHINGTON: U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, under fire at home with calls for his resignation, is spending some time in Iraq.
The Justice Department said that Gonzales arrived in Baghdad on Saturday for his third trip to Iraq to meet with department officials who have been there to help fashion the country’s legal system.
“I am pleased to see firsthand … the progress that the men and women of the Justice Department have made to rebuild Iraq’s legal system and law enforcement infrastructure,” Gonzales said in a statement released by the department.
His optimistic assessment came despite the frequent sectarian lawlessness and killings in the country.
The attorney general was accompanied by Michael Sullivan, director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and John Clark, director of the U.S. Marshals Service, and other department staff.
Gonzales got an update from Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, and also planned to meet with Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, and other U.S. and Iraqi officials, the statement said.
The trip comes at a difficult time personally for Gonzales. Both Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. Congress have called for his resignation.
They have questioned his truthfulness on a variety of issues including discrepancies about the purge of federal prosecutors and issues related to a domestic eavesdropping program.
Gonzales also was an architect of U.S. policy on the treatment of prisoners abroad and author of a 2002 memo saying the U.S. president had the right to waive laws and treaties that protect war prisoners.
President George W. Bush has staunchly defended the attorney general.
hackworth @ 52
Will it matter? Not unless it becomes the narrative in the mainstream media. The problem is at this point all of the propaganda exposure for whit it is is only reaching those who already understand the dynamics of what is happening and the likely motivations for it. The bulk of American voters never learn of this, don’t follow it closely enough to make sense of the small bits that do make it to the mainstream.
I agree with the commenters who desire a major network with a deliberate schedule of liberal programming. Without a large forum, the campaign of misinformation and propaganda is incredibly difficult to counter. Radio Marti, anyone?
senator kerry left DC early on friday (and so missed the friday night fisa votes) because he had planned to participate in the pan mass challenge bike ride.
katymine @ 48
No, but I’m sure damn well pissed at Harry Mitchell! I wouldn’t be able to make it to Ahwatukee anyway, and unfortunately, I’m not his constituent since I’m not in his district. I’m in Trent Franks district, which is even worse. I have sent letters, though, to our Senators, for all the good it’ll do. Thinking about sending a letter to the editor. Every little bit helps.
selise @ 57
Other priorities. Sounds familiar.
The door opened in this new change also opens a new way to do all kinds of mischief in our data networks but like e-voting nothing could ever happen that would be bad. The level of not mis-understand of the technology but non- understanding is monumental (in a way that in the future will seem imposable to comprehend).
selise @ 57
But someone mentioned to me here at FDL that since the fix was in, they allowed 12 senators to head home because their votes wouldn’t help. Anyone know?
Chris @ 38
I hate to be the one to defend Ford. but his policies fit most of TN. Corker won because of the huge effort by Roveco. Remember that Corker was the Repugs only win.
Harold has a family situation but meeting him many times he looks you in the eye and answers and no, he sure didnt match my desires for a candidate he was a Dem and I liked him.
Richmond @ 61
I don’t know anything about that, but it wouldn’t surprise me. In reality, as long as there were enough votes for cloture (and there were, 60 voted in favor of the FISA amendment) then those twelve Senators’ votes didn’t matter.
Why are people like Harold Ford even bothering to be Democrats? Since they seem to agree with and embrace GOP talking points,framing and policy,why aren’t they freaking Republicans?
As I understand it, the DLC originated with relatively decent objectives - to influence Democrats to present themselves in ways more attractive to voters in the South and other conservative area of the country. Not everything about the old DLC was conservative - Sen. James Sasser of Tennessee, one of the leading lights of the early DLC, and later Clinton’s ambassador to China, voted against the authorization of force in the first so-called Gulf War. (And he lost his next election.)
But over the years, the DLC has changed from an organization that worked for a moderately conservative agenda in the DP, into one that works against anything progressive in the DP. They sound like Republicans because they are basically owned by the same people that own the Republicans.
snowbird42 @ 62
I still think alot of the GOoPer lite that Harold Ford offers helps to depress Democratic votes. Why vote for a putz like him if you are liberal?
-GSD
Phil K @ 64
The other reason they are is business still is that there is mega money to be made during the Dem campaigns by them and related figures (flunkies) which is why they are pissed off at Dean and the 50 state strategy, because it cuts seriously into their take (percentage of related advertising and other budgets). Follow the money……
That spinning refresh symbol means there’s a new thread.
new thread upstairs
Get ready for the big el-foldo in September. The same Red Dogs who rolled-over and showed their pink bellies to Bush/Rove on FISA will be jumping at the Liv-A Snaps tossed to them by General Petreaus.
They won’t be able to suffer the brick-bats that the GOP has waiting to club them with.
Traitor, cowards, cut-n-runners. The US is on the threshold of turning this war around and you are going to stab them in the back.
Get ready for it, it is coming.
-GSD
Hi pups.Truly a sad day for me. I had a call this a.m. from a friend saying my son’s godmother died. This link made it so much worse. I’m sorry. http://www.bl.uk/iraqdiary07.html
I have been trying to arrange a meeting with Pelosi’s staff but haven’t been able to yet. My congressasshat is Dan Lungren. No point in calling that jerk. He is an idiot who doesn’t know his ass from page 12. Do I sound hostile? You bet. I just lost my health insurance, can’t pay the mortgage and my husband is chronically ill. My country has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people and I can’t find a senator or congressperson who is “at home”. My kids are in graduate school and will come out with debts more than the value of a house. And the dems - where the f**k are the dems. And it is getting harder and harder to find work if you are an older person cause your health insurance with be too costly.
Does anyone know — does Rahm have the balls to meet his constituents? I see nothing on his website and some who have called have previously reported being told nada.
The extreme focus on militarism of Iraq debate is depressing. There are broader issues that these Congresspeople should be thinking about than when the troops come home. The issue of troop deployment is very important, since the deployment of the troops is the proximate cause of the killing. But why the relentless focus on that, without any broader discussion of how to deal with the problems that surely will arise after we leave?
We know we are between a rock and a hard place in Iraq. No question there is great risk in both staying and leaving. There is very little discussion of how to formulate a broader Middle East policy that might actually work. And what discussion exists is a debate about how long some vague infeasible fantasy residual military force should stay and where. The premise seems to be that we will keep troops somewhere around there so we can blow up stuff if things don’t go our way after most of the troops leave. Well, gee, what a great plan. How impressive.
That is pretty brutal minded, unimaginative and frankly morally degenerate, as well as inept approach, isn’t it? I would like to see the Congresspeople pressed on some ideas about mulitlateral action, diplomatic initiatives, some kind of strategic vision of how to deal with the the region after we withdraw.
Right now the debate is driven by the notion that the only lever the US has is to threaten to kill and destroy. So discussion focuses on that.
I’d like to say to these people “Look, we are leaving soon, or we get a draft. A draft won’t happen, so we are leaving. You gotta plan for how to deal with the fallout of our *necessary and rapidly approaching* departure that doesn’t revolve around violence and war as a first resort? What is it? Why don’t you have one?”
There is not question in my mind that the neocons went on a campaign to sell the idea that the US population was militaristic, that our history was militaristic, that war and violence should be a normal tool of US foreign policy. Leeden was spreading that disgusting lie. Kristol, or somebody who sound like him (I get their names mixed up) was too.
Of course, historically, I thought the US attitude was war is such an unmitigated evil, that where anything can be hoped for peace, everthing should be tried -which is a paraphrase of Madison.
From watching TV, it seems to me that neocons made a lot of progress with their vile sales job.
I think such a discussion would help the Democrats, since the choice currently seems to be framed so that the only alternatives seem to be to stay and kill more people following a policy that has failed longer than WWII, or sit home and do nothing. Or am I missing something in the public discussion? The cynical ignorant gasbag pundits will laugh in the Democrats faces of course. Which is a good thing, and serve to discredit them. I think polling has shown that the US population has consistently retained a preference for peaceful multilateral multinational cooperation and action even through the darkest days of Cheney/Bush worship.
The morally degenerate, inept, incompetent, opinion and policy and media elites, who truly have been wrong about everything for the last six years would disagree. But forget them, since I think the voting public has decided to forget them as well, and I trust the public’s judgment much more.
I don’t doubt Bush would put the choice to Democrats that way. I just want to know if he said “We cannot do our jobs without this power,” or whether he said, “We *WILL* not do our jobs without this power… and *I*’ve got SS protection at my Crawford ranch, so I *know* I’m safe. Can any of y’all say that? No? Okay, then.”
Or course, the reality of US history has been very militaristic at times. So I am not attempting to deny that. But if we give up the ideal, even if it has been betrayed, if we give up that goal explicitly, then we are truly lost, both in moral and practical terms. So that is what I was talking about when I asserted the US was not militaristic.
So, I won’t listen to overly shrill tendentious diatribes about how evil awful bad US militarism has been. Has it been any worse than other big countries in history who have had the means to inflict shock and awe on the weaker? I don’t think so.
Snowbird42, Corker was the Repubs’ only win, but Ford did a *shitty* job of standing up for himself and the Democratic party. Just because someone *says* they’re a Democrat, doesn’t mean they’ll be any good for the party.
When I see/hear Ford, I feel the cold decrepit hand of Joe Lieberman writing his words.
And if Tennessee really won’t even consider sending anyone more liberal than Harold Ford to the Senate, then fuck it, let ‘em have a damn Republican. We’re not going to win all 100 Senate seats, and if we let people like Harold Ford veto our power to define ourselves — to the advantage of *Republicans*, whom you’d *THINK* Democrats would want to *OPPOSE* — we’re better off without him.
The (D) Party is a huge 1000-ton heat sink to absorb the discontent on the Left. It has vast capacity to insulate it’s insiders from the opinions and emotions of the populace.
The “You Work For Us Summer Tour” is a great experiment to see if the netroots or what have you can raise the temperature beyond what they can take.
But without a credible option to vote for anyone else, c’mon, the Washington (D)’s know they can pretend to listen politely, maybe try some kabuki, and keep getting on with the business of raising money from corporations and lobbyists.
Primary challenges are heat that matters more, and if some neo-con with a (D) in front of their name wins, then ponder what Howie says at Downwithtyranny:
Has a nice ring to it.
Here’s a price - if one is fond of venting against the stupidity,cost, and wrongness of the war in Iraq, what are you going to do if a neo-con (D) like Clinton or Obama gets in office and continues the war?
Or worse, uses nuclear weapons against Iran?
Can’t vouch for the context, or whether this is a locale that Clyburn/Pelosi et al will be near on Monday (though their MS and LA tour is the 12th through the 14th, I believe), but wanted to pass this along from a DailyKos diary, FYI:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....13337/9239
A couple of random points in response to earlier comments:
1. It seems that we now know of two Democratic Representatives (Ohio’s Charlie Wilson, and NC’s Heath Shuler) who voted for the Senate FISA bill in the House, but who admittedly would have preferred not to if given a choice between bills. In fact, Shuler (in one of the media accounts - perhaps EJ Dionne’s) seemingly was prepared to stand and resist the White House pressure, in order to pass the House FISA bill HR 3356 rather than the Senate-passed version, but was not able to sway the leadership to his point of view. I think this may be very significant in terms of where the pressure to ‘cave’ was really coming from (i.e., not primarily from the “Blue Dogs” per se).
2. As to the missing senators, I believe there are really only two possibilities here: Either the 60-vote margin for the