I had just read the New York Times‘ Public Editor, Clark Hoyt, explain that every Times article “is read by at least five people after the reporter finishes it.” So I guess that means that when an article on the front page of the Times’ owned Boston Globe repeats a thoroughly discredited Republican talking point, the expressed bias must pervade every level of the paper’s editorial staff.
Writing about all the steps Hillary Clinton has taken to establish that she is “tough enough” to be Commander in Chief, Globe reporter Marcella Bombardieri begins her article with the following explanation:
Because she is a Democrat and the first serious female contender for the presidency in a time of war, convincing voters that she can be trusted with the nation’s security is one of her biggest hurdles.
This unqualified statement is then followed by quotes from “experts” expressing suprise that a Democrat and a woman could actually gain credibility on national security issues, or noting that Clinton has done so by “making tough comments that sound a lot like the president.” Oh, please.
With apologies to regular FDL readers who already saw the earlier post, this repeat is for my hometown paper and the five or so editors who likely read what its reporters write for the Globe’s front page:
We’ve had six and half years of phony “tough men” in the Bush/Cheney regime, people who actually believe that the best way for America to gain it’s supposedly lost manhood was to beat the crap out of some hapless Middle East dictator just to prove we could — so they did. But these insecure juvenile morons have run the country into the ground while destroying the almost universal goodwill towards America that existed immediately after 9/11. Their reckless belligerence and indifference to human suffering have destroyed Iraq and created refugee conditions that usually accompany genocide. Being “tough” means they sponsored the CIA’s “black sites,” winked at Abu Ghraib and left us with Guantanamo. These same “tough” guys watched with indifference as New Orleans drowned, and they now want to impose a “misery strategy” against highly vulnerable undocumented immigrants.
. . .
Someone needs to stand up and say that being “tough” and “manly” the way the media and this regime define those terms has been a catastrophic failure and a human calamity. It has made us less safe and led to tens of thousands of deaths; it’s dragging the country’s reputation through the mud and made us hated as bullies and torturers. We’ve had enough of cruelty masquerading as policy and service-evading presidents in flight suits pretending to be warriors. We’re in desperate need of genuine adults who possess wisdom, understanding, respect for law, and courage based on humane principles.Our next President will need a more mature grasp of adulthood than displayed by our adolescent President and his war-fear-mongering Vice President, a man so insane he can’t wait to start the next war. But our media need to stop asking whether these candidates are “tough” or “manly” enough; surely adult men possess more humane qualities than what the media obsesses over, and we could benefit greatly from more “feminine” and/or motherly sensibilities in the mix.
Is it too much to ask the Boston Globe to stop repeating the mindless, now demonstrably false nonsense that only “tough” Republican men — or those who sound like them — can be trusted with America’s national security? Repeating that wholly discredited myth is hurting the country and perpetuating conditions that elect those who support the Bush Administration’s horrors, getting thousands more people killed and America bogged down in hopeless foreign quagmires. For god’s sake, stop.
Photo: SERGEANT CURT CASHOUR/US ARMY VIA Associated press, from the Globe.



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Zed
The BG editors can’t help themselves.
The sooner the SCLM realizes that this group of faux masculine faux conservative, mostly white males it seem to believe actually exists has gotten this country into a position of dire peril, the sooner we’ll be able to create rational responses to the array of perils confronting us. But you know that already.
apparently, it is too much to ask…
I had just read the New York Times‘ Public Editor, Clark Hoyt, explain that every Times article “is read by at least five people after the reporter finishes it.”
It’s five persons, not five people.
Sloppy writing, sloppy thinking.
Characteristic of our dark age.
Why is “five people” sloppy?
Clinton’s gained credibility on national security issues?
Really? How’s that?
snarKassandra @ 6
“People” is an indefinite number.
Jonathan @ 8
But “5″ tells you how many.
When you look back over some of the past Presidents – Eisnehower, Truman, Roosevelt, Kennedy – they made tough decisions and didn’t go beating their chests about it. What is it about the Reagans and Bushes of the world that they need to show their manhoods they way they do? Insecure little farts is what they are.
Dang, Markos does a respectable job of debunking the DLC and Ford! Great job!
Does this assume that Republicans can be trusted with our nation’s security ’cause I sure don’t feel safe on account of them. a better lede would be: Hillary Clinton needs to articulate a security policy that actually makes America safe. Fighting wrong wars on wrong battlefields while trashing the Constitution apparently isn’t a successful strategy.
It’s time for adults to resume power in Washington. The drunk fratboys need to give the car keys back.
snarKassandra @ 9
“People” is a term that means a set of an indeterminate number of items.
“Five” is definite.
Just a mismatch. Check out “Strunk and White” in an edition around 1965.
By the way, Cassie, disregard any dictionary printed in about the last 40 years.
Kevster @ 12
Exactly. You’d think this would be obvious by now, but the Republican frame appears to be deeply embedded in the media, even the BG. I was surprised, but perhaps I shouldn’t have been.
CTuttle @ 11
wiscmass has a recent diary up at dailykos re Ford’s accusations. Over 600 comments in a few hours. My favorite is very recent:
The Democratic Candidates must take the lead here and Force Ford to resign from the Chair of the DLC now ! Noo excuses no bull-shit, Now ! Would Democratic Presidential candidates appear at an anti-semetic gathering..Come on, boot Ford’s stoopid ass out, and Now !
I wonder how many of the five readers are from Cheneys office or the pentagon?
The tough job is telling Generals and neocons their gig is up. So far Richardson and Kucinich are the only tough candidates in this respect. Proposing more of the same with just a few less troops is still perpetrated genocide for oil by the DLC anointed robbers baroness, Hillary.
Hillary is heading towards being a war criminal president.. I think I will fret over attacks on women with a bit more integrity.
When she decides to be tough I will defend her through thick and thin.
Apparently, “five people” instead of “five persons” is like saying “five fish” insted of “five fishes”.
Or something like that.
CTuttle @ 11
Yes, he did. There are couple of videos on C&L. Markos does well when he’s not interrupted; but Ford wouldn’t shut up and just kept throwing mud, talking over the top of Markos. Why are we surprised?
Actually this goes back to two different long standing stereotypes:
1) Dems are weak on security.
2) A woman has to be twice as tough as a man to be considered half as strong.
It’s probably true that Hillary thinks that she has to overdo the hawk stuff to be credible to general election voters in a time of war..I don’t find that surprising..
The article doesn’t say that only gooper men can be trusted- only that dems normally have a deficit in confidence in defense issues. That’s normally true- but NOT true at the moment.
Since we have so little experience with female candidates- it’s a bit hard to say how tough it is to win Commander in Chief credentials- but it’s probably a bit harder than for a guy.
Tiger wins his 13th major- five more to go.
Ed*ard Teller @ 15
I agree 100%, one dig Markos got in was; “…If Ford had run more to the left, he would be Senator right now…!” Or words to that effect!!! ;-)
Bob5540 @ 17
I think the word “fish” is used to represent (a) the entire set, or (b) a member of the set. The meaning being clear through context.
It seems that any and all decisions made involving Iraq, and most promises made about Iraq turned out to be wrong, or else lies. These decisions and promises were all made by a Republican man/men.
HRC and other Dems. need only to use snips of prewar talking head Sunday shows for their ads.
America did not fall off a turnip truck yesterday.
rwcole @ 20
And really all they have to go on is Jimmy Carter not kicking butt in Iran. Despite what Candy Crowley et al. will tell you, Nixon campaigned on getting us out of VN, not winning.
There should be two banners hung in two foot letters in every newsroom in the country and placed on the desk of every reporter and editor:
BUSH WORST PRESIDENT IN OUR HISTORY
i.e. Does the story look as cool if you take into account that Bush is the worst President in our history?
IF A DEMOCRAT WAS PRESIDENT?
i.e. Did you or would you write the same story if Clinton (Bill) was President?
I admit that the “5 people read this before it gets into print” means next to nothing considering the NYT’s consistently awful warmongering coverage of the Middle East. OTOH maybe the Times should hire some real reporters and editors instead of the usual shills and stenographers. Then they wouldn’t need 5 people who obviously don’t know what they are doing to read everything.
Scarecrow @ 18
I agree that Gregory should have moderated a little better, but, I was pleased Timmeh was not there!
the reason i don’t trust senator clinton with our national security and foreign policy is that, to me, she sounds too much like the republican men.
Gordon
Well public opinion is rarely rational- but goopers huff and puff a lot more about our “enemies” and are always willing to spend more for defense. That’s probably the basis for most of it.
GordonM @ 25
With honor.
rwcole @ 29
Why do we have so many enemies anyhow?
Goopers NEED enemies to justify their positions. If we didn’t HAVE enemies- they’d be forced to invent them- or produce them as seems to be the case currently.
Slighty off topic the New York Times on saturday aug 11, 2007 pg a4 had an article about Josette Sheeran a woman reporter who has been involved in Republican causes and until recently was a Moonie. She is Bush’s choice to run the World food Program.
“She refuses to discuss her affiliation with the Unififaction church” why unless she still is a Moonie?
Anyway she was a Pulitzer Prize Juror for foreign news in 1996. I’m wondering if the Pulitzer committe has any more Moonies voting on stories?
Obviously there are Moonies in Bush’s government and maybe they also edit and review stories for the New York Times which would explain how Judy Miller was able to run amok in the first place.
GordonM @ 25
Which shows how clueless the knuckle draggers and TradMed are as it takes far more strength to NOT go nuckin’ futz at the provocation of an Iran (or Iraq or whomever). During Carter’s term in office, we lost a grand total of eight service members in anger and they were lost trying to affect a rescue of the hostages. Would that we had more leaders with Jimmy Carter’s “weaknesses.”
Hugh — when I saw the “five people” edit rule, there first thing I thought of was your favorite, Michael Gordon. I wonder what those five do?
selise @ 28
To me, this is not a man vs. woman issue. I’d vote for a woman any day if she had good ideas and a willingness to fight for them.
snarKassandra @ 31
Many people don’t cotton to a nation unilaterally invading another nation solely on false pretenses! And completely bungling the whole job!
rwcole @ 32
While they play a very convenient political purpose, I think most Republicans are so fearful that they actually believe their crap. I had one guy tell me that “clearly, you’ve never been face to face with pure evil”. I had to admit the closest I’d ever come was while shaving, and how ’bout him?
This Hillary-dissing, and the let’s-ignore-those-cute-little-girls-on-blogs attitude of the MSM, brings to mind this story:
Two candidates for one job, both have idential and impeccable credentials. Both interview well, answer the tough questions the “correct” way for corporate America. Afterward, the interviewers discuss:
“Hey, boy, he sure is aggressive.”
“Yeah, but she’s a pushy bitch.”
Sad thing is, I heard this story (a story in this form, but all too true too many times) more than 30 years ago.
We’ve come a long way, baby, but not yet far enough. We still have a lot of work to do.
Jonathan, give me a break. When did you ever hear the term, “five persons” in any conversation. It’s stilted, pseudo-formal and stupid. And what’s wrong with dictionaries published in the last forty years? Get a life! As far as democrats having to prove their manhood is concerned, (the point of this post, by the way,) how did Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy get retroactively deprived of their manhood?
Jonathan @ 13
Should we compromise and say something sensible like “5 humanoids”? Oh yes, and Strunk and White can bite me. Just kidding. Prescriptivist linguists are OK as long as they aren’t taken too seriously.
The Republican debates reveal a certain blood lust, imo.
“Convincing voters that she can be trusted with the nation’s security” is a hurdle Hillary jumped weeks ago.
selise @ 28
It’s like the old Woody Allen joke about food. The argument is: these guys are really awful and Hillary isn’t enough like them.
Hey, you guys want to re-write the language? I like a language that requires users to conform to logic.
I’m reading a fairly good book right now, called The Dominion of War, by Fred Anderson and Andrew Clayton. They take on American exceptionalism, and the male rituals of domination of all around them, exemplified in our military past, especially by Gens. Andrew Jackson and Douglas MacArthur. We have to move beyond these crazy, mainly testosterone-driven games, if we are to survive as a species.
TBS, I’m not sure Sen. Clinton comes across as militant as she often does merely because she thinks she has to do that to counter perceptions of female weakness.
Ed*ard Teller @ 15
Except the very tenets of the DLC (created by neocons) are anti-Democratic. I once wrote Howard Dean and told him he should not support any member of the DLC because the two platforms are diametrically opposed. DLC=pro War, pro Big Business. As they say, you can’t serve two masters. If they choose the DLC, they aren’t Democrats. Look how the DLCers make such awful statements and horrendous votes. The DLC gives them lots of instruction to do that in return the members get lots of corporate dollars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D…..ip_Council
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1463
In case you EVER wonder why we have such idiotic Democrats voting against us, membership is one of two reasons. Earmarks is the other.
Elliott @ 41
“I’d double Gitmo!”
“I match that and raise an iron maiden with curare on the spikes!”
Jonathan @ 36
yes, did not mean to suggest otherwise.
still i don’t like her foreign policy (what she has been willing to tell us of it).
CTuttle @ 27
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.
I would have paid BIG money to see Markos ask Timmeh exactly how much he makes each year to be Dick Cheney’s meat puppet.
Elliott @ 42
Romney – “I’ll see your Abu Graib.”
Guilianini – “I’ll see that, and raise you two Gitmos.”
Rayne @ 48
Oh yeah, oh yeah!
Hillary will have exactly the same policies as Bill had. She will talk tougher, though , in the campaign to woe indie voters.
Jossette Sheeran’s father was mentioned in a 1976 Time Magazine article about parents attempts to deprogram their kids from a Moonie church run school that he accused of “cruel and exotic entrapment of minds souls and bodies”.
Now just how does someone with this background get on a Pulitzer Committe?
And if it could happen to a Pulitzer Committe then how can we trust that the Times does not have 5 Moonies reviewing stories?
Goopers are forced to tune up their rhetoric too for the primary- they have millions of primitives voting.
Jonathan @ 43
What is language but the product of a very long and illogical history? You are trying to catch the wind in your hand. You are also confusing logic with the familiar.
psssst…ad hominem is not a recommended tack to take.
You know who you are.
Hugh @ 43
i, obviously, have not watched enough woody allen.
rwcole @ 51
Wood woos woe, but I would woe wooing.
rwcole @ 29
Yeah, but they cut benefits for the vets and fund ridiculous weapons programs with that expenditure. Star Wars? Right. That’ll protect us.
ad hominem is a logical fallacy- declaring a conclusion as true or not true due to characteristics of the person who presented it:
“Well of course he’s a known liar so I think we can discount his comment”.
Rayne @ 49
Hah! I hadn’t thought of that! I did enjoy how Gregory fed some ammo to Markos to be used against Ford!
Let’s get Hillary on the Supreme Court bench and sidestep this conundrum
Hugh @ 54
My view, FWIW, is that language (as we use it today) is the product of evolution. I do not disrespect evolution. I love (and am drawn toward) logic.
selise @ 47
I wasn’t focusing on Clinton, per se, but on the media framing that accepts without question what are essentially Republican talking points that have been proven wrong. Being tough, manly and Republican, as the bushies define these terms, has not enhanced national security; just the opposite. But if the media frames it that way, without even thinking what the Bush Administration has done, we get candidates trying to fit the frame — in ways that ultimately make it harder for both Democrats generally and women in particular to be taken seriousious on national security matters, unless they behave like those who have created disasters. I would have thought the Globe would understand that, but here’s a front page story that says not.
languages are neither logical nor illogical- people are.
Yep. These GOP boys are really tough guys. Cheney, Rove, Lieberman, the Romney boys, now there are some really bad guys, and a bunch of others.
And as to HRC. If the Senator is the nominee of my party, we in this house will support Clinton. We’ll take Senator Clinton over any of these phony two-bit wannabe bad boy Republican candidates. And I ran across this:
Democrats quietly fear a backlash from Clinton
Candidates at the bottom worry about a polarizing politician at the top
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20237246/
Kathryn in MA @ 62
Hmmm… not bad.
Are Democrats tough enough to secretly supply AK-47 automatic rifles, to everyone in Iraq. At least 190,000 Ak’s are missing that were sent to Iraq. It has been claimed that Victor Bout, “Merchant Of Death” was allowed to supply these weapons. Bout also sold weapons to the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
RawStory has an AP report on another astounding weapons deal. The Iraqi government tried to secretly buy 100,000 more AK’s for $40 million, from illegal weapons dealers.
Is Hillary Clinton tough enough to be honest about a flood of secret weapons deals into Iraq. How do these illegal transactions occur? ALL THE COMMUNICATIONS ARE BEING MONITORED BY NSA OR CHOICEPOINT. These weapons deals are being approved at the highest level of government-Darth Cheney.
______________________
Meanwhile, the planned replacement of the army’s AK-47s with U.S.-made M-16s may throw more assault rifles onto the black market. And the weapons free-for-all apparently is spilling over borders: Turkey and Iran complain U.S.-supplied guns are flowing from Iraq to anti-government militants on their soil.
Investigators say the prospect of an Iraq deal was raised last November, when an Iraqi-owned trading firm e-mailed Massimo Bettinotti, 39, owner of the Malta-based MIR Ltd., about whether MIR could supply 100,000 AK-47 assault rifles and 10,000 machine guns “to the Iraqi Interior Ministry,” adding that “this deal is approved by America and Iraq.”
“We are in a hurry with this deal,” an impatient Waleed Noori al-Handal, Jordan-based general manager of the Iraqi firm, wrote the Italians on Nov. 13 in one of the e-mails seen by AP.
Citing the names of “friends” in top U.S. military ranks in Iraq, al-Handal said his company has fulfilled scores of supply and service contracts for the U.S. occupation. Asked why he claimed U.S. approval for the abortive Italian weapons purchase, he said he had a document from the U.S. Army “that says, ‘We allow al-Thuraya Group to do all kinds of business.’”
What gets my dander up is that HRC appears to buy into the crappy premise that has throttled so many women stuck between middle management and the board room.
I can think of one female executive who gave up having children, dressed very much like a man and out-manned a lot of men, including her husband, only to be stuck between middle management and the board. Never going to happen now, she’s going to be in that spot until she retires or she quits for a comparable job at higher pay with another Fortune 100 company. Perfect example, but she’s only one of many.
And I can think of other women who were badgered and hassled in such a way that their femininity was questioned during their entire tenure, even though they were competent business leaders. Carly Fiorina is one such example.
We aren’t past this crap yet as a culture, and yet we are so completely f*cked by the men who have been leading this country to the toilet. I’m not advocating hiring a woman for the job simply because she’s a woman; but for crying out loud, how can she be any worse? Why is her gender even an issue at all, given all we’ve been through this last 6-plus years of male-dominated hell?
Ed*ard Teller @ 49
Giuliani is working the same framing shown by this article. His argument is that he understands the threat posed by radical Islamists, whereas the Democrats don’t understand it and therefore can’t confront it. So he ridicules Edward’s “bumber sticker” comment. Hillary could have showed some sophistication on this issue and helped show Giuliani is crazy, but instead, she endorsed his framing.
selise @ 56
It was at the beginning of Annie Hall.
Scarecrow, while you and I agree that Hillary Clinton shouldn’t be taken less seriously on defense matters because she’s female, there are plenty of folks who wonder whether she would be, including Taylor Marsh:
[emphasis mine]. There’s lots more where that came from.
Reality and political reality seem like disjoint sets to me, but then I’m used to a different standard of reality than most folks. I’m sad to agree that Taylor and the Globe are probably right on this one.
rwcole @ 65
I agree with you about people. Languages, as I have learned (Cambodian, Vietnamese, Chinese), have their own logic.
Yeah, W’s tough. Scared of horsies, but tough.
heh.
Clusterfuck avoided a war by goin into the guard- then he became afraid of flyin and refused to go up any more…
Tough?
Maybe not.
Scarecrow @ 64
but in this specific case – clinton – i don’t think she is trying to fit the frame. i think she really is way too ready to kill people.
There are photos of Clusterfuck takin a cheap shot at a rugby competitor- so if ya think cheap shots show toughness- well OK.
We have no record of him goin toe ta toe in a fair fight.
Drunken clusterfuck called his ol man out ta fight…
Tough?
Hugh @ 71
My preferred version: “The service here is slow, but the food’s so bad you don’t mind waiting for it.”
Off-topic –
Frank33 @ 69
So what’s the skinny on the Russian weapons being sold into Iraq?
I am way past ready for a matriarchy.
HRC might make decent AG too.
Veritas78 @ 83
I want a meritocracy.
Veritas78 @ 81
a refreshing change, we should give it a try.
rwcole @ 55
Yes, but they’re forgetting about all the sound bites up for play in the general election.
selise @ 76
You may be right, but the point is to evaluate her policy preferences on the basis of whether they’re different from or the same as those that have failed so badly, not on the basis that they came from a Democrat or a woman.
But I’m not sure I agree with you. Clinton strikes me as someone who, in dealing with a world of enemies that are mostly right wing men, has learned to be cautious not to leave herself exposed to the kinds of attacks they thrive on. I think it may have affected her policies choices. But that’s just a guess.
OT, with apologies, as always a day late–anyway Scarecrow what I was (ineptly) trying to ask last evening was: When you wrote the piece taking on Gerson’s Washington Post column about the moral advantage of true believers, did you have any idea what Scully had in store? Just that Gerson may not have been the exemplar and poster child of the point he was so vehemently making? Scully seems to be saying that Gerson was a serious consumer of cocktail weenies, and Gerson seemed, in July, to be presenting himself pretty much as a true believer. Does this make sense?
Loo Hoo. @ 85
I don’t know. Depsite Allen’s Macaca moment, they may just be presuming Alzheimers. I mean, when Tony Snow can repeatedly contradict things that are on video…
Five people read that sewage and approve it? I guess that they just have to be careful who the five people are, huh?
Thanks, Scarecrow for re-posting your rant. It was worthwhile just to have the pleasure of reading it again.
The five people thing reminds me of a little saying my grandma used to have, “If three people tell you that you are dead, the least you should do is lay down.” Grandma knew her stuff. She had no patience with fools.
Scarecrow @ 86
Considering the concerted deliberate campaign against Hillary and her husband in the 90s, this makes a lot of sense to me.
Of course it’s affected her policy choices, being attacked from the right. Does anyone really believe that this intelligent, liberal Wellesley graduate and Yale Law school alumna thinks we need a flag-burning amendment to the constitution? Because I don’t.
We won’t get real universal single payer non-profit health care from her, either, and we may not get our forces out of Irak. For just the same reason.
mighty mouse @ 87
I didn’t know anything about Scully. The only Scully I knew was the announcer for the Dodgers, and I’d listened to him since Brooklyn. Yep.
snarKassandra @ 31
The short answer, in most cases, is the activities of our corporations and our intelligence agencies. The Agencies subvert or overthrow locally-popular governments, for either economic or military advantage, and then support brutal dictators, who are amenable to our corporations coming in and exploiting the people and resources in every possible way.
The short answer. There are others.
Cujo359 @ 85
Okay, but only after an intense period of payback.
Personally, I can’t wait for the objectification part. What will the male equivalent of high heels be?
Rayne @ 82
Another link to the AP report:
Their discovery led anti-Mafia investigators down a monthslong trail of telephone and e-mail intercepts, into the midst of a huge black-market transaction, as Iraqi and Italian partners haggled over shipping more than 100,000 Russian-made automatic weapons into the bloodbath of Iraq.
The Interior Ministry’s need at that point for such a massive weapons shipment is unclear. The U.S. training command had already reported it would arm all Interior Ministry police by the end of 2006 through its own three-year-old program, which as of July 26 has bought 701,000 weapons for the Iraqi army and police with $237 million in U.S. government funds.
The Italians sent several offers of various types and quantities of rifles, with photos included. The negotiating focused on the source of the weapons: The Iraqi middlemen said their buyer insisted they be Russian-made, but the Italians wanted to sell AK-47s made in China, where they had better contacts.
By December, the Italians, having found a Bulgarian broker, were offering Russian-made goods: 50,000 AKM rifles, an improved version of the AK-47; 50,000 AKMS rifles, the same gun with folding stock; and 5,000 PKM machine guns.
The Iraqis quibbled over the asking price, $39.7 million, but seemed satisfied. The Italians were set for a $6.6 million profit, the court documents show, and were already discussing air transport for the weapons. At this point prosecutor Razzi acted, seeking an arrest warrant from a Perugia court.
Marretta @ 89
That’s a good one; my favorite is “mostly dead is not completely dead.” I’ve found it very helpful.
Scarecrow @ 94
Scully and Gerson, by Bruce Reed
Veritas78 @ 94
Rudy in rubies?
I have a fave cousin who has three kids. She and her husband are in the Air Force. And this lady could kick some serious butt on three “men” who work in the WH.
Veritas78 @ 96
Codpieces with inward-facing spikes?
Scarecrow @ 88
TeddySanFran @ 92
Actually, I don’t believe she proposed an amendment; IIRC she supported a bill banning flag burning instead of an amendment under the probable assumption that it would be declared unconstitutional.
Frank33 @ 95
Don’t forget that one of the lessons all our Iran-Contra veterans learned was to run it out of the OVP.
Veritas78 @ 96
Shoulder pads and codpieces. We’re already there:
http://www.kwhitaker.com/mission_accomplished.jpg
dakine01 @ 102
To me, that isn’t any real improvement.
Elliott @ 107
Worse. It’s a complete waste of time.
Cujo359 @ 104
And enough hi-tech gear to make a nerd jealous.
(My low-tech GPS is a piece of paper that says “you are HERE now”.)
Scarecrow @ 87
i wasn’t disagreeing with you, i just don’t have anything to say about it.
could be, but i don’t see any hints that she has been advocating positions she doesn’t agree with.
and even if that’s so, is there any reason to think she would govern differently? why wouldn’t she be likely to continue to “protect” herself by acting the hawk?
some reasons why i think she’s not faking it are here and here.
well, i don’t claim to see into the future… we’re all operating on too little information…
dakine01 @ 104
Jonathan @ 36
To me this is exactly what The MeatGrinder is all about. Everybody, hair on fire, running around in fukin’ circles talkin’ about ‘tough’, ‘manly’ and ‘resolute’
A perfect storm of ‘conservative’ ReichWing propaganda which keep the citizenry focused.
Focused….
On anything but this.
This is one Bush/Cheney’s primary goals for The MeatGrinder and their plan would appear to be working to perfection. While we debate the ‘manliness’ of the only women candidate for President we are slowly being reduced to slavery.
Time to pull our heads out and start addressing the real issues.
Not corporatist press propaganda…
My hope is that most voters have the common sense to tune out this BS when they are faced with the reality of the recent mess. And I am a hopeful fool who cannot believe that the US population is so psychologically and emotionally retarded, especially then the cost of electing fools has been demonstrated to be very high so recently.
There is some evidence that I am not totally wrong. We know pretty darn sure that the neocons have run an intentional campaign to legitimize war and violence as the normal tool, the preferred tool, the necessary first resort in foreign affairs, and portray anyone who says different as a danger to the nation’s existence. Think Bolton, think Ledeen, etc. And then they accuse anyone of thinking different as a naïve ignorant soft-minded cowardly chump. Since many media national affairs pundits and news stars have become, in fact, naïve, ignorant lazy minded cowardly chumps, this attack terrifies them, and they go along. And some I suppose actually believe it.
And we know there has been a conscious Rove-GOP campaign to portray anything except war and violence as a ‘feminized subject.’ and anyone who thinks about anything else all the time is feminized. In that sense, it is correct to call FDL a woman’s issues blog, since it is not all about war all the time. Of course, that means TPM, Thinkprogress, Crooks and Liars, RealCimate, Brad DeLong, National Geographic, Physicsforum, Waterconserve, Great Outdoor Recreation Page, etc etc. are all women’s issue blogs. And Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Madison, Teddy Roosevelt were all girly men who spent most of their time on feminized women’s issues. Truman. Marshall, and Eisenhower got substantially feminized after WWII, by today’s standards, so they would be suspect and subject to ridicule as well. FDR was feminized since he started thinking about a peaceful postwar order before WWII was over, rather than how to start the nest world war, and he let Eleanor act uppity. Everything is women’s issue except for warmongering, threatening to kill people, and worrying that we will not kill enough people in the future. Think about our beautiful fetching Breck Girl candidate, who is gay, or wimpy. There has also a deliberate strategy to piggyback that on the retro and schizoid conservative nonsense that any women who actually does anything on her own as being ‘manly’ or a bitch.
The media stars prefer to repeat this garbage since seems like good ratings show biz, and it is safer for them to talk about nothing rather than something. Actually nothing is the only safe thing for most of them to talk about, and this garbage certainly qualifies as nothing.
So, call their bluff. Maybe aggressive and pointed ridicule, rather than outrage, is the best response to this stuff. I think the population is ahead of the media and pundits on this, or are prepared to rush on ahead if they can be reminded that this all a deliberate, but really stupid attempt at a con job.
I am ranting, now, but I would prefer more aggressive and effective push back on this. And ridicule is the only thing I can think of right now that seems appropriate.
I am thoroughly convinced that Republican men can’t handle national security and will screw it up every time. Hillary isn’t my favorite choice, but maybe we need a woman as president to screw this meme up. I can’t stand this idea that any Democrat (male or female) needs to convince anyone on national security — after the Republicans have been so bad and so un-American in their methods, how could any Democrat be worse?
Elliott @ 106
I’d call it playing the system.
dakine01 @ 113
for that she’s got skillZ
The media is getting shifted into high dudgeon about Iran and their influence in Iraq.
General Petreaus was running the “EFP’s from Iran” story today.
Is the US planning on showing Russia, China and Saudi Arabia a lesson for their arming of the hostiles in Iraq?
Din’t think so.
It is all smelling very, very deadly.
-GSD
I know, in all my conversations with people, I have yet to hear anyone say they won’t vote for HRC because she’s a woman. I work and discuss politics with some of the most reactionary Southerners imaginable, and you know what? They’re ready for it.
Marretta @ 91
Five persons damn it!!!! Five persons!!! Didn’t you hear Jonathan?
Editorial from the NY Times 12/7/2005 on Clinton sponsoring flag burning bill but opposing a flag burning amendment.
I wonder what Bill’s first job as First Gent will be….balancing the budget?
Frank33 @ 97
So do you think this is legit (a real deal, not to be confused with a legal deal), or a psyop?
They manage to get both the Russians and Chinese into this picture. Convenient.
TeddySanFran @ 93
Teddy, she introduced a flag burning bill to avoid an amendment. From one of your favorites;) Richard Cohen:
Along with Sen. Robert Bennett, a Utah Republican, she has introduced a bill that would make flag burning illegal. It is probably important to note that this is not a proposed constitutional amendment, and it is written in a cutesy way that does not explicitly outlaw all flag burnings — just those intended to “intimidate any person or group of persons.”
wesgpc — I like the ridicule approach — but you just did a long rant to tell me that.
We now have two long rants. :)
GSD @ 117
GSD – One thing I learned in Viet Nam is that the people who determine the outcome of the war are the American people. Bush knows where the battlefield is.
dakine01 @ 118
hey, thanks dakine!
she shows no leadership by sponsoring that.
and that just shows what’s wrong with her.
It is a howl that the Clinton bashers, especially the Bill Bashers, are settling on Oil Slick Mitt “I’ll say anything to get elected” Romney.
As for Sen. Clinton, she’s on my bottom tier, but I said before there is some great joy in thinking of her and Bill claiming that the Bushies “trashed the Whitehouse” on the way out.
-GSD
wesgpc @ 111
I am 1000% in agreement on this. This is a last ditch attempt to save their sorry asses. And it’s effective if it scares us. Arguing them seriously, like they actually mean what they say, is exactly wrong. Being scared only gives them power. Laugh in their faces. Let the American public know that they’re not crazy (’cause they do see it, they only doubt it because it’s all they hear) – these people are lying despicable assholes. Ridicule! Attack, attack, attack!!
Cujo359 @ 108
I thought it was an artful move. The amendment would probably passed in that sorry congress.
George W. Bush is a bully. Your typical playground punk. And he’s ‘yellow’, through and thru. I need to calm down, my friend tells me.
Maybe enough states would have passed a flag burning amendment at that time too. Late 2005.
GSD @ 127
They should invite David Broder to inspect the place before they move in.
GordonM @ 128
I suppose any rhetorical approach along the lines of “Ooooh, you’re such a funny little man” would probably work best, at least on the men.
marymccurnin @ 119
If I need to apologize, I do. I’m not against you.
wesgpc at 113,
Ridicule works as a defense against a boggart, it ought to work just as well for testosterone soaked GOP candidates. I want to see Mitt Romney dressed up like Longbottom’s grandmother.
I don’t think Rudy is a Boggart, though. He’s a dementor.
RonD @ 95
I didn’t mean to ask why THEY don’t like US. That’s kinda obvious. What I meant was why do WE (or the repubs) call THEM ENEMIES? Is it just so the govt can buy more weapons?
So, was Bill O’Reilly’s attack on DailyKos and Markos a preplanned racist attack to thwart a minority from having a voice in America?
This statement of Dildo Bills leads me to conclude just that:
Bill O’Reilly: But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you’re a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have. In that regard, Pat Buchanan is right.
Bill O’Reilly, racist agenda right in the open.
-GSD
Any predictions for tomorrow’s lead stories?
Loo Hoo. @ 130
agreed.
Scarecrow @ 138
Bush appoints a bunch of new judges while congress is in recess.
mary at 119,
Oh I heard Johnathan, but I’m one of those uppety women who never lets a man tell her what to do. :)
snarKassandra @ 140
I hope you’re only kidding, Cassie.
Scarecrow @ 136
the ever wobblier Iraqi Maliki government
Scarecrow @ 137
Fed working to shore up weak mortgage markets – sends message of stability.
Tommy Thompson to drop out of Prez race.
Scarecrow @ 138
Stock Market and Feds reaction. I wish it would be about Markos’ take down of Ford but it won’t happen. The MSM already decided that Romney’s win meant nothing and soldiers die in Iraq everyday and they’re tired of reporting about the war.
Elliott @ 143
it’s been wobbly so long that wobbly looks stable.
Scarecrow @ 142
You want a good news prediction too?
Millions flock to YouThinkLeft and Political Teen Tidbits.
Afghanistan is having a tough weekend. The death toll has surpassed that of 2005 and is well on track to be the deadliest year so far.
George W. Bush, the reincarnation of George Custer.
-GSD
Scarecrow @ 138
United Mine Workers under investigation by Feds in mine collapse.
snarKassandra @ 134
It is very important to the Righties psyche to have someone to blame – particularly when they’ve been in charge this long and have only managed to totally screw things up. Islamo-somethings, gays, liberals… doesn’t matter. Anything that gets the blood boiling and gets the dimwits motivated to go out and vote for someone who will do something about it! Those wussie Dems will just feel empathy and want to talk about it.
Scarecrow @ 144
sooner rather than later it’s gonna weeble
Loo Hoo. @ 129
It still would have had to pass two thirds of the state legislatures, many of whom could have safely ignored it.
I think a more deft approach would be ridicule, since it was a ridiculous issue. I don’t think very many of us can watch a flag being burned without some heartache, but that’s part of the price of being free. It’s not just about sending someone else’s kids to a place they’ve never heard of to fight people they have no beef with. It’s about putting up with things you wouldn’t have to if you got to tell everyone else what to do, because that way they don’t get to tell you what to do.
GSD @ 148
Yes, there was a very long NYT article on the deteriorating security situation there — I need to go back and reread it.
Hey all, I wanted to promote the FDL gathering at Old Ebbitt Grill in DC Friday night (4:00 start, for me anyway).
I got first round!
Always by the first round, as the party never gets smaller.
What does that mean?
5 Persons,
5 Persons who need people,
Are the luckiest 5 persons in the world
ok, I’ll get over myself.
I’m surprised that no one has gone after the Republicans for being such eager victims of terrorism. What do terrorists want? They want their targets to freak out in terror. What have the Republicans done? Pitch our Constitution, put everyone under surveillance, and cave completely to their own fears.
3,000 people died on 9/11, but 50,000 died on our highways that year and 500,000 died from tobacco. I don’t mean to claim any false bravado (I would be just as scared if it was me in those towers, and just as anguished if I was a surviving relative) but to decide that “it changed everything”?
I’ve been trying to figure what’s the difference between us and them, and I think it’s hope against fear. Perhaps it’s a feature of our species. Half of us hope, half of us fear. The fearing part has dominated humanity for a hell of a long time, and over time, it’s been self-fulfilling. Bush has based all his actions on fear, and now we have a lot to fear from a world that hates us.
Democrats have long attracted women more than men. We’re the party of hope. Maybe it’s because it takes hope to even entertain the possibility of raising a new life within oneself (something no man has any chance at).
Okay, so much for the dopey pop-psychology!
Scarecrow @ 138
Iran found to be supplying guns to Al Qaeda in Iraq.
JPL @ 144
So tomorrow’s news lets see “a big light slated to appear in the eastern sky” no that belongs in weather, economy following infra structure into collapse, no too many big words. Gosh what will the news, maybe casual friday on the campaign bus, yes thats the ticket, but must find more happy shiny things to fill in the remaining 15 minutes of news.
snarKassandra @ 155
I will buy the first beverages for everyone in attendance. If you happen to be 21, it may have alcoholic content.
a very small point: hoyt says the times has five editors read every story (he should have said UP TO five do).
but that’s at the times. the globe likely has fewer editors on each piece, because i believe they have a smaller staff, thus small editor to reporter ratio. don’t assume just because they do things one way at one paper means that’s how it’s done at another.
anyway, that has nothing to do with scarecrow’s post, which is about the bias contained in the presumptions of the globe story. guess what? that usually falls squarely on the shoulders of the reporter who wrote it. editing for accuracy does not always mean editing for content.
Balrog, I hope you’re going somewhere with wifi so you can keep us posted. Cheers!
Balrog @ 160
first round of drinks!
ice cream float.
Eureka Springs @ 158
Why bother. Seems like that market is already flooded.
Loo Hoo. @ 162
Sorry, my wifi wasn’t invited. She’s breastfeeding.
argosfalcon @ 159
Sorry forgot the goats and goldfish coexisting underwater mid-Atlantic kingdom, thats a must lead.
snarKassandra @ 163
Why not ‘The Kiss’ float? Think big!
marymccurnin @ 157
Yes. Five persons. Many people.
dmg @ 161
I guess I don’t see the point of even one editor if it’s not at least for the credibility of the content. This wasn’t even subtle; it just leaps at you. And this is Boston, for heaven’s sake.
Balrog @ 167
What is that?
BTW, Snarky, I really like the new look of YTL.
I’m liking this:
Cecilia Sarkozy’s decision to bow out of a picnic with the president of the United States this weekend is the latest proof of the French first lady’s unpredictable, even rebellious take on her new role.
President Nicolas Sarkozy travelled alone to meet George W. Bush and his family at their Atlantic holiday home after Cecilia — staying just an hour away at a US lakeside resort — bowed out due to a throat ailment.
The US leader said he was “disappointed” but understanding after Cecilia called Laura Bush at the last minute to excuse herself, but the change of plan sounded a false note in what was billed as a rare personal get-together.
She was photographed later Sunday taking a stroll in town with two friends. Nicolas Sarkozy, meanwhile, was seen wearing earphones and jogging on a lakeside path with a seven-strong entourage.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20…..Qyv_usOrgF
snarKassandra @ 170
Google is your friend, but here.
Scarecrow @ 165
It’s the classic Rovian proactive plausible deniability. Just like Dem vote fraud..etc.
RonD @ 171
Thanks, but I had nothing to do with it. They didn’t even use my ideas.
HuffPo has an AP story indicating that many (D) elected officials are worried that having Hillary Clinton on the ticket will drag the party down in their states.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..democrats/
Pragmatic Dems, who look at every issue in terms of electability repercussions for 08, please do not let this candidate lead the ticket.
Many on the Left will not come out and vote for someone who supported the stupid invasion of Iraq, someone who threatens nuclear first strike against a country that poses no threat to the USA.
And on the right, everything that can slither out from under rocks will come out and vote against her – and many who are disgusted with Bush/Cheney would come out and vote against as well.
Scaremongering the Left to come out for the Least Worst will be way less effective for her, and for 08 in general, after the dismal performance of the (D) congress after 06.
08 is the Democrats to lose, and Clinton and her entourage of timid beltway consultants and brazen warmongering neo-cons is just the person to do it.
It’s like in one of those scary movies where everyone in the audience is like “don’t go down in the basement!” but it happens, and we end up with Benito Ghouliani in the White House.
Here is Kiss Float with CT Bob in front.
RonD @ 171
And content. Short, sweet, and relevant. Maybe Cassie can do early a.m. at FDL.
Shorter Cecilia Sarkozy:
Hold the Pickles.
-GSD
P.S. Here is an interesting read from the AsiaTimes. It appears that the 29 Taliban/Al Qaeda camps in Pakistan have fallen silent.
Did they depart knowing an attack was coming or have they departed knowing that they will be targeted after they launch a new round of terrorist attacks.
You decide.
mary at 156 says-”
5 Persons,
5 Persons who need people,
Are the luckiest 5 persons in the world
ok, I’ll get over myself.”
i ‘get’ it…………and right now, you’re lucky….i read your post earlier about your situation…………i’m thinkin’ bout you……one great thing is, there will be more poems to write……
in the last few posts, starting with invisible again, i have written personal things, i was epu’d…….just sayin’……….need is all over, how to fill it? buddists say, cause no suffering……i bring that up every once in a while…….. cause no suffering, who all really understands what that means? even in our every day wants we cause suffering……i have a feeling that in your every day doings, you don’t cause any.
Eureka Springs @ 174
So the 200,000 weapons don’t count gee as a tax payer I feel slighted,
Scarecrow @ 179
I suggest a field experiment. Have her do it under a different name and see if anyone catches on.
should included the “that we supplied”argosfalcon @ 181
Scarecrow @ 169
oh there was clearly one editor, possibly two, who either knew of the (false) premise of the piece or, just as likely, told the reporter to write a story based on it.
and i suppose other editors were involved at the story meeting when it was pitched for page one or wherever it ended up in the paper.
but by that time, the story was written and something so basic as whether or not it was based on a false premise would not have been raised. any such objection would have been shrugged off with a line like “but that’s what people are thinking.”
this is a good example of sloppy or lazy or biased thinking finding its way into print. just don’t believe that every editor who handles a piece like this has the capacity to kill it or have it rewritten.
RonD @ 182
I’ve been doing that all along and everyone knew it was me [I].
FYI, Siun is upstairs
snarKassandra @ 171
Kommander Guy gave Joe LieberLiar a big smooch. Here is one picture and here is another.
Here is the actual video.
That’s what they get for inviting the French to a weenie roast. No class.
Siun as a new thread ready.
marshen @ 43
She was slow to the right position, but now ALL the Democratic candidates for president have shown they can be better trusted with the nation’s security than ANY Republican because the Dems all plan to leave Iraq.
Hillary might be a bit slow, but “she’s our girl!”
Giuliani is the Republican’s ‘girl’.
Frank33 @ 70
Apparently our “enemies” in Iraq need a little help to keep this war going.
TeddySanFran @ 76
He’s so tough he falls on his face repeatedly to show he can take it. How many times has he fallen off a Segway or a bicycle or a wagon?
Imagine a horror comedy flick about a good upstanding family being threatened by evil thugs down the block. Trusting family hires Cheney and Bush as private police dicks to protect them… they *seem* like forceful competent knowing savvy can-do guys you don’t want to mess with. Probably the man of the house hires them -a certain kind of man is gullible about such things. If the film were more along the comedy line, the doofus hubby would do nicely -but not an Ozzy, which would be cruel casting. In fine black-comedy sick-thriller tradiion, said Cheney and Bush turn out to be incompetent, bullying, psycho macho-men nutcases. There will be a scene where the resourceful clever and plucky woman of the house, –wife, daughter, baby-sitter, foul mouthed grandma, whoever, decides to take matters into her own hands and get the family out of the mess. Dang near succeeds. But the Dick-Bush of course, for plot purposes, find out about this and mess it up, since everyone knows a women shouldn’t be meddling in these kinds of things, and they need protect the poor little dear from harming herself and getting them all killed.
This plot sounds familiar to me, somehow.
If it were a standard old-time Hollywood flick, some guys would spend the rest of film rescuing things in the nick of tiem, long chase scene, tiresome mini-cliffhangers strung together, etc. The woman would be allowed some little critical action that contributes to saving the day, in order to not completely insult half the population who might pay to see the film. And then Dick-Bush would get some kind of come-uppance.
But let’s say its a better movie, and all sorta folks, young and old, make and female, this color or that, come to the rescue. Hey, maybe through some kind of neighborhood cooperative action. Maybe Deputy Fife and Aunt Bea. Anyway, people with more common sense and fewer psych issues than Cheney-Bush.
Cheney-Bush would have decided that these people were enemies or incompetent meddlers and try to kill them all. That would create good suspense, but in the real life version it makes me nervous.
Anyway, my point being, every all American audience from LA to Tulsa to Manchester would know who to root for.
So, I guess we need a movie like that. To poihnt out some home truths.
GordonM @ 127
I think someone should send them tickets to see “No End In Sight” if they want to claim the Rethug men do it better…
I just returned from seeing the movie and I left more angry than I thought I could be.
Impeachment Is Not Enough!
Jonathan @ 103
What exactly would that be? What does Hillary believe?
“Only Republican Men can keep you safe”?…..
I believe the gods in the heaven would fear a mother protecting her young….
Men wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for the love of their mothers….
AZ Matt @ 10
The reason for these idiots is because they are nothing more than BULLIES. We all know that Bush has been like that since he was a kid. He has to be the big shot and has to be in the center of the attention!! Also in today’s Globe was a pix of Jr, the French President and
Sr Bush…the ex Pres and French Pres were just talking and pointing at something…what is Jr.
doing? Waving at the camera!! He just never stops!
I would bet that the Globe has some letters to the editors over the comments of the Times…they forget we are one of the most
liberal state in the union!!
So I guess that means that when an article on the front page of the Times’ owned Boston Globe repeats a thoroughly discredited Republican talking point, the expressed bias must pervade every level of the paper’s editorial staff.
Not necessarily. It could just mean that the Boston Globe editorial staff thinks that taking this line will do them some service in their personal career advancement.
They do work for Pinch, you know.
For an enlightening view of the standards of journalism in Boston, google Beat the Press at WGBH. Brings shallow and bitchy to a whole new level.
Haven’t read comments . . . but.
Scrarecrow, thanks for putting this out there.
The Shill is just another of the same as what we’ve had all along . . . and a HORRIBLE foreigh policy is what she will propogate for oil, power, control, and greed.
Same as it ever was.
Glad to see SOMEONE putting the hammer down in The Shill . . . A Harpie In Disguise.
Yeah, like filling the GWB ‘I’m the deserter’ flightsuit is such a hard thing to do.
If she is basing her campaign on countering those silly arguments she is making a huge mistake. Hillary, remove Harold Ford from your ‘Five’ immediately!
snarKassandra @ 9
That’s why “5 persons” is more correct than “5 people.”
FDL needs to write a letter to the editor on this, Scarecrow. I’d suggest you go with something along the lines of your quote from yesterday’s blog.