Or so they say.
Among the folks who are in complete agreement with the O’Hanlon and Pollack upbeat reports – which followed their Pentagon organized, funded and … chaperoned tour of Iraq:
Halliburton Co.’s former Kellogg, Brown & Root unit, the largest contractor in Iraq by work orders, earned little more than half the bonus available under its $2.5 billion no-bid contract to rebuild Iraq’s oil infrastructure, a government audit said.
The $57 million bonus paid was about 52 percent of the amount available and at the low end of bonuses paid on 11 other major Iraq reconstruction contracts awarded through June 2006, according to the Government Accountability Office. Those payments ranged from 100 percent to 20 percent of their potential, GAO said.
And
Iraq, Afghan wars boost BAE profits
Source ::: AFPLONDON • British defence firm BAE Systems said yesterday that net profit rose by almost a third during the first half, boosted by strong US and British orders amid the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
BAE Systems said that net profit climbed by 27.2 per cent to £515m in the six months ended June 30, compared with the first half of 2006.
(snip)
“The high tempo of military operations continues to generate growth in requirements for land systems in support of US and UK armed forces deployed on overseas operations,” the company said in its earnings statement.
(snip)
BAE Systems added that it was “successfully identifying and accessing the higher growth sectors of the US defence market.”
In the first half of 2007, BAE Systems’ US-derived businesses achieved growth of 12 per cent.
(snip)
BAE Systems is alleged to have set up a £60m “slush fund” for members of the Saudi royal family to secure business, and made illegal payments to those involved in its deals. BAE strenuously denies the charges.
(snip)
But the investigation was shelved by the British government last December in a move supported by former prime minister Tony Blair amid concerns over Britain’s national interests.
Related posts:
- Report Confirms Poor Electrical Work by KBR Endangers US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
- Costs of Iraq, Afghanistan Wars Proving Unsustainable
- In Iraq, As in So Many Contexts, Withdrawal is Victory
- The Real Price in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gaza
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Dahr Jamail, The Will to Resist: Soldiers Who Refuse to Fight in Iraq and Afghanistan
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Siun!
and zed, again…
Siun! Y dos!
tres, AGAIN
oops! damn this slowpoke bloated FF2!
Okay, tres!
Damn.
God this is disgusting.
I wish there was a way to get all this money back and give it to the people of Iraq first,and put some of it back into the Treasury.
Anything but giving it to the war criminals.
Oh, Siun, thanks for writing this, but it makes me weep for all that could have been.
“Dear America, Thanks for all the money! Sorry about your kids. Love, Halliburton.”
Here’s what’s happening with our Ohio Freewayblogger:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..-ohio.html
What makes this sort of “littering” so special is that it’s “litter” that’s been consecrated by the blood in the footprints of the snows of Valley Forge.
I want to federalize haliburton and return the money that was stolen from this country and the middle east
Things are looking up in Iraq? Not for this dead soldier:
After four combat tours — the last a 15-month marathon with a Fort Lewis Stryker Brigade — Sgt. Nick Gummersall was scheduled to finally return to his Pocatello, Idaho, home by early October.
His family was primed to celebrate. Gummersall, 23, a high-school football star, was eager to take in a Denver Broncos game.
“I was just going to buy the tickets this week,” said his brother Casey, 24.
On Monday, Sgt. Gummersall was killed in a bomb explosion that also claimed the lives of three other 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division soldiers. They were at the tail end of a tour that was supposed to end in June at 12 months but was extended.
EPU’d, but I’d like to put this comment up again during a post by my favorite writer here, Siun:
Ed*ard Teller @ 126
OT re the subprime mess
The Fed is now up to $38 billion in what it has injected into financial markets. This is dwarfed by the $130 billion the European Central Bank made available yesterday following the announcement by BNP Paribas. The Japanese Central Bank has so far anted up $8 billion. But nothing really to see here. Bush says the economy is doing fine. So move along.
ET, how the hell are you?
Wallstreet traders are freaking out…they are all sounding confused and hysterical…no light in sight at the moment..wow…record volume trading…
What was that about Iraq? Oh, yeah…progress.
BigMitch @ 14
Well and ready to head back tomorrow evening!
Inevitably, in Sept., Petraeus will issue a hopeful-signs, incremental-progress, and (perhaps) light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel report.
What will not be reported is that the U.S. has abandoned all pretense of establishing democracy in Iraq switched sides. Formerly we were bolstering an elected government dominated by Iraq’s 60% Shiite majority and battling against an insurgency by Iraq’s 20% Sunni minority.
No more. Now we are paying and arming the Sunni and 73% of our casualties are at the hands of the Shiite malitias, most of whom are still on the sidelines. This proves that we’ve been forced to abandon our secondary objective of establishing a (hopefully democratic) central government, i.e., we’ve been defeated in that endeavor.
What we are doing now is making common cause with a group that needs what Bush wants, our continued presence in Iraq. The Sunni are outnumbers three to one by the Shiites, who have the backing of Iran and who have payback in mind. Were we to suddenly leave things would be most difficult for the Sunni.
So now we have two objectives:
- to avoid having to leave, thereby admitting defeat
- to draw Iran into a war with the U.S.
IMHO this is an appalling and under-reported turn of events.
Glad to know that ET is learning from non-white bloggers. Reminds me of the time I was in the Army, and a black guy looked at my name tag (Schapira). He asked me, “Is that Italian?” I said no. “Russian?” no. “Well, what is it?” I said, “It’s Jewish.” And he said, “Well, I knew you wasn’t white.”
So, what can I teach you today, my friend?
Ed*ard Teller @ 16
Need a lift from Unindicted Co-conspirator International Airport to anywhere?
“Halliburton Co.’s former Kellogg, Brown & Root unit, the largest contractor in Iraq by work orders, earned little more than half the bonus available under its $2.5 billion no-bid contract to rebuild Iraq’s oil infrastructure, a government audit said.”
The pile of straw keeps growing.
How on Earth can they frame this as “Halliburton gets ONLY half of their blood money…” the depth of complicity of the mainstream media is blatant here.
Instead of reporting the clear travesty, that this war could produce bonuses for anyone but returning soldiers, they pose it as , “boy those gool old guys at Halliburton only got half of that easy money, so lets all look the other way now, and maybe they’ll give some of it to a candidate who’ll buy ads from us.”
The cycle of profanity is glaring, this; “at the low end of bonuses paid on 11 other major Iraq reconstruction contracts awarded through June 2006, according to the Government Accountability Office.” makes it all the more disgusting, why aren’t our soldiers bringing this bonus money home to buy houses with.
Talk about fixing two problems with one fund…
If every bogus billion had come back instead as BIG DOWN PAYMENTS ON NEW HOMES, THIS HOUSING MARKET MIGHT HAVE SHRUGGED-OFF BEING USED AS A BIG ATM BY THE MONEY-GUYS.
Things are out of control. And we’re going outback to the pool.
JEP @ 20
Actually that’s a pretty damning statement that
Halliburton’sKBR’s only getting half of the available bonus. At least when I was involved, you had to really be screwing things up on a contract to drop below 75% and it was usually quite easy to frame the issues to stay in the 95-100% range.Hi Siun!
It’s good to know KBR & BAE are getting theirs. Glad it’s working out for somebody somewhere.
BigMitch @ 18
*headdesk*
Hugh @ 13
In the nomenclature of academic finance theory,
this is called pumping air into a pinctured tire.
Or pi*ssing in the wind.
Mitch,
LOL – re the Army sergeant.
Kids are picking us up. I’ll call Sunday about the Monday Diane Benson meeting in Muldoon. Gotta go machete blackberry vines until beer-thirty. Later, gang.
Speaking of Iraq, Israel does, to our “representatives” who are delivered to a warm welcome on the doorsteps of the leadership of the Israeli government by A*P*C, the equal-opportunity foreign lobby. Wouldn’t it be nice if we had an American “lobby” to deliver our representatives to town meetings in their own districts so that we could express our concerns about America’s financial and Constitutional health, and about how the ongoing American occupation of Iraq “endangers” America and everything she used to stand for…?
To wit:
Http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/891358.html
http://www.startribune.com:80/…..52265.html
The foreign lobby indoctrination of the newest batch of American federal legislators continues apace, under the corrupt, jaded and utterly uninspired guidance of the likes of Steny Hoyer and the Democratic Party “leadership” in Congress, far from our shores, and far from the reach of American voters, whom Steny Hoyer feels not the slightest obligation to listen to or represent; no public meetings in his district this August – Steny Hoyer has other priorities.
dakine01 @ 22
I believe the 50% number represents ALL available bonus’s in entirety, not just the bonuses alloted alotted to kbr
WASHINGTON – U.S. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md) told Haaretz on Wednesday that the Democrats would seek to avoid a policy on Iraq that “will leave chaos and will endanger Israel.”
because leaving chaos is so so very different than fomenting and maintaining chaos.
somebody get me an aspirin.
perris @ 28
Whether it’s KBR alone or all of Halliburton, it is still fairly unusual for a contrator to be leaving that much of their bonus on the table uncollected or at least it was when I worked in the DoD arena.
The thing I love about the whole BAE-bribed-the-richest-sh*ts-in- the-world thing is how a British aerospce company ended up paying £250,00 for Bandar Bush’s daughter’s wedding. Including $12,500 so that the lucky guy could watch a football game for 3 hours in a luxury hotel suite.
Because those Saudi royals are just treading water in today’s gloablized economy.
Along with Bachmann and Ellison, the group is sponsoring trips to Israel in the coming weeks for nearly 40 other Republican and Democratic lawmakers, many of them freshmen.
this can only help us during the Rapture!
One more plea for reason,then I’ll stop.
$38 Billion released as CREDIT!
dumb idea, it’s a bandaid, not a solution.
Give a $100,000 “Iraq War” bonus to every soldier who has been there and back, specifically for the purpose of buying a new home, or paying off the old one.
Do the math, it would take a 30 minute meeting of Congress to make it happen, just earmark $35 billion for that purpose, tack it onto the next funding bill, and start sending out the checks.
The VA could help certify it went nto the housing market, but that would probably be the easiset part. The hard part os convincing the banks they don’t get a cut of this funding, they just get security for their nvestments, and a huge sum of cash to bolster their bottom lines for now.
That should be enough for everyone to be satisfied with, and instead of itbeing released as credit it gets into the economy as cash.
And make it tax-free, a one time windfall write-off, that would only be taxed if they borrowed against the principalagain.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/baef…..62,00.html
“But this rapid expansion could be put in jeopardy by the Department of Justice investigation.
Compared to the British government, the US has a far tougher attitude towards companies who are alleged to have paid bribes to foreign politicians and officials to win contracts. The Department of Justice regularly prosecutes executives, while the British government has yet to prosecute anyone for this kind of offence.
The penalties can be harsh – at its most extreme, companies can be barred from US government contracts. Executives can be jailed for five years, and companies fined up to $2m.
In its brief announcement to the Stock Exchange, BAE said the US inquiry would examine BAE’s “compliance with anti-corruption laws, including the company’s business concerning the kingdom of Saudi Arabia”.
The alleged payments to Prince Bandar come under the jurisdiction of the US Department of Justice because the money went through a US bank.
Earlier this month, the Guardian revealed allegations that BAE paid the money to Prince Bandar for at least 10 years through Riggs Bank in Washington, while he was the Saudi ambassador to the US.
The payments are alleged to have been made in connection with Britain’s biggest arms export deal, known as al-Yamamah, which dates back to the 1980s and is worth around £43 billion.
Prince Bandar, now the Secretary General of the Saudi National Security Council, has strongly denied the sums involved represented secret commissions to him, describing this as “a zenith in fabrication”.
Solicitors for Prince Bandar have said the US accounts at Riggs Bank into which the funds were paid were in the name of the Saudi Arabian Ministry of Defence and Aviation. Any monies paid from them were exclusively for ministry purposes.
BAE has said al-Yamamah was a government-to-government agreement between the British and Saudi governments and so all payments involved were made with the express approval of both governments.
It has been alleged that the payments to Prince Bandar were made with the active authorization of the Ministry of Defence.
Today, Tony Blair’s spokesman said: “We have no comment to make whatsoever. Our position on the investigation in this country hasn’t changed and we have no comment to make on what happens in the States.”
He also declined to comment on whether the British government would co-operate with the US Department of Justice investigation.
The Ministry of Defence said it had no immediate comment.”
Note: Riggs Bank is a Bush family bank.
The AIEF — the charitable arm of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee [A*P*C] — is also the sponsor of a trip to Israel next week by a separate delegation of lawmakers that includes Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn.
just coincidentally anybody hear anything about Iran starting another Holocaust????????????
Hugh @ 13
Wait until next week when they see retail sales..
WTF should KBR be getting bonuses, when they’re not doing the job they contracted to do? Bonuses are not a right, they’re a privilege. Or they should be, in a sane world.
Riggs Bank from Wiki:
“A Saudi named Omar al-Bayoumi housed and opened bank accounts for two of the 9/11 hijackers. About two weeks after the assistance began, al-Bayoumi’s wife began receiving monthly payments totaling tens of thousands of dollars from Princess Haifa bint Faisal, the wife of Saudi ambassador and Bush confidant Prince Bandar bin Sultan, through a Riggs bank account.[1] Upon discovery of these transactions, the FBI began investigating the bank for possible money-laundering and terrorist financing.
Although the FBI and later the 9/11 Commission ultimately stated that the money was not intentionally being routed to fund terrorists, investigators were surprised to see how lax the safeguards at Riggs Bank were. Several Saudi accounts were discovered to have financial improprieties, including a lack of required background checks and a consistent failure to alert regulators of large transactions, in violation of the law. Many of these transactions involved Prince Bandar personally, often transferring over $1 million at a time.
Following British investigations on the Al Yamamah deal, reported by The Guardian Prince Bandar would have received over $ 1.5 billion in briberie from BAE Systems through the Riggs Bank
Jonathan Bush, uncle of President George W. Bush, was an executive at Riggs Bank during this period.“
This part of the Motherlode.
pow wow @ 27
Steny goes where the money is, and where his policy is dictated. He cares more about what the prime minister of Israel says than what his constituents want. I wonder if Pelosi is going along, too?
P J Evans @ 37
Ah but see? There’s the rub; nothing about life in a DoD contract world has any relation to sanity or the real world.
Alfred’s back and just posted on his blog.
“Actually that’s a pretty damning statement that Halliburton’s KBR’s only getting half of the available bonus. At least when I was involved, you had to really be screwing things up on a contract to drop below 75% and it was usually quite easy to frame the issues to stay in the 95-100% range.”
I guess my point now is, we know the soldiers have done their jobs,they get peanuts. But we know the contractors, ACROSS THE BOARD, have failed miserably, they get bonuses..
According to every report I’ve looked at, there is not a single program, structure or project that fits even up in the bottom 25% acceptability territory where Bush so comfortably dwells.
That ANYONE would get a bonus for that kind of failure would be completely unacceptable in pre-Enron corporate America; Heads would roll with those numbers, not get bonuses, in the days before the book-cookers took over the books.
WHY ARE WE GIVING BONUSES FOR FAILURE?
ANY BONUSES?!?!?!?!
Let alone enough money to rekindle our housing market, if our soldiers got it instead of these failures.
Most of you know, I don’t yell very often, but all this talk about bonuses for Iraqi corporate contractors just flies in the face of the many abject failures they have “accomplished.”
One million Iraqi dead since the invasion began based on the Lancet study. Most of the dead, by the way, women and children.
The U.S. dominates the global weapons market, big time.
Time for change.
OK, one last thing and I’m done,
Anyone else notice how Wall Street started dipping precipitously just after Murdoch the Turkey vulture dug his beak into the WSJ?
Cause and effect, no doubt, but they will always deny it.
perris @ 10
Most of that money is not on the pockets of employees, managers, and owners. There won’t be a lot of it left in the coffers of the corporation.
let’s do some counting. 350,000 Iraqui children under clinton/gore/albright.
650,000 under bush/cheney/rice.
that’s a million.
israel lost 6 million to hitler.
we’re 1/6th of the way to an official holocaust.
no, i’m sure there’s some reason iraqui deaths dont count.
JEP @ 44
I’d thing that Wall Street would have viewed this as a big plus. The lies could continue without even the pretense of objectivity, and the privatization of SS could go forth with much more ease.
Bonuses for KBR. Let’s see here – Incredible markup on supplies. Amounts of money missing and purchased supplies unnaccounted for or never even delivered.
I’ve heard stories about Rangers who really hate Halliburton because they are responsible for feeding the troops in Iraq, yet instead of getting 3 meals a day, everyone in his unit only got 1 meal a day. When his CO instructed his unit they were moving to another city and the unit asked why, the CO said because that’s where the food is.
That should have never happened. Fuck KBR for starving our troops. One thing our soldiers ask for in care packages is food because KBR is dropping the fucking ball on this.
Hi gang … I’m on a call with a congressmember who’s been touring Iraq – update when the call finishes.
JEP @ 44
The other morning – Monday, I think – there were warm bodies handing out ‘free’ copies of the WSJ where I got off the train. I walked right by them; I didn’t see a point to making Rupert feel good.
LS @ 38
Well as long as we are playing the Riggs Bank game. It was the bank of choice for dictators like Pinochet. It was controlled by the Albritton family until they lost it because of all the scandals. Robert Albritton wanted to be a Republican media player. He finances the Politico that we are all so fond of.
P J Evans @ 50
don’t knwo for sure but there was/is supposed to be someone doing a parody morphing the WSJ with Post and other Murdoch paper style headlines as a protest which that may have been
wigwam @ 45
If the owners and management don’t have the money,where is it? Besides in the hands of stockholders?
Maybe there should be laws that defense contractors of ANY kind can’t have stocks? I don’t know. All I know is this shit ain’t right,they’ve robbed this nation blind and destroyed millions of lives. It’s enough.
Lets not forget how the kind folks at Halliburton gave our troops CONTAMINATED WATER along with SUBSTANDARD RATIONS to our men and women who are fighting for their lives in 130 degree heat.
Somebody’s ass should be in jail for that shit.
Busted Knuckles @54,
If we had a real news service in this country, the crimes against our soldiers would be displayed. I’m surprised for a country so fucking gung-ho about supporting our troops, that so many folk are ignorant on these cases.
Things will not change until there’s a power shift in the US. Too much money is flowing into the hands of the Bush family and Cheney for them to stop this, no matter how many die on either side. They have no one they care about or even know at risk, so the deaths are just little people.
Republicans must be made to pay for having created this Bush/Cheney nightmare.
“350,000 Iraqi children under clinton/gore/albright.”
“650,000 under bush/cheney/rice.”
apples and cranberries..
You are trying to equate a self-indulgent age of denial to a deliberate war of aggression. …pick your poison, but in most logical thought, one is shameful, the other is downright pernicious.
And you completely misused the key word “under”, clever but I caught it..
Clnton was never
The King of Babylon,”
Bush was, at least for a few weeks…
So it happened “during” Clinton, but “under Bush”, to be accurate you actually needed to say “under Saddam Hussein.”
But you wouldn’t want the name Bush on the same page, now would you. The only thing they have incommon is that they both were “The King of babylon” as a million people died.
when there’s so much money to be made from death and destruction – we build a demand for more. not good.
Bustednuckles @ 54
Uh, Mr. Waxman, isn’t this your particular bailiwick and when might we expect some movement along these lines?
dakine01 @ 52
OOOOHHH, please a link!!!
Or at least keep us posted!
I don’t recall Halliburton being brought up in any of the Democratic debates. Or did I miss it? Of course I don’t remember the DLC being brought up either.
JEP @ 60
I don’t have a link but if you google Wall Street Journal parody, I think you should be able to find something.
BTW,what happened to that General,Kensington,that refused to appear at the Tillman hearings?
Laura Doty @ 43
you beat me to it. and that’s just the since march 2003. i wonder what the number is for the last 17 years is.
18 year-old iraqis have never known a time that we were not at war with them.
Is what we are experiencing what they meant by a ‘global economy’?
ls at 34 says in part-”Solicitors for Prince Bandar have said the US accounts at Riggs Bank into which the funds were paid were in the name of the Saudi Arabian Ministry of Defence and Aviation. Any monies paid from them were exclusively for ministry purposes.”
and the minister of defense is related to prince bandar, convenient, huh?……although, i can’t find the link that says which relative……sorry……
this link, provided by someone the other day, is a good article about everyone……..
http://baltimorechronicle.com/…..loyd.shtml
hi siun! great post!
Bustednuckles @ 54
Republic thinking: Supplying clean water and standard rations takes profits away from Cheney and friends. If those troops didn’t want that stuff, they shouldn’t have volunteered. Besides, they’re probably poor people so it’s really working out well for them anyway.
NAFTA and CAFTA sure is the answer to all our problems. How much of America do the British, the Chinese, the Japanese and others now own of the United States. They own our grand children. And their children’s kids. Too much.
dmac @ 66
Defense Minister is his father. What a surprise.
Bush’s long-term banking scandal problem is older than his time in high office.
How deep does it go? Just how much provably pernicious influence has the Bush family’s banking ties had over the years, on every part of our cultural experience?
Lets not even go into the Nazi connections, just think Bush’s Texas Rangers and Hurwitz’s Redwoods, as the tip of the iceberg, there’s an old, long-standing interconnectivity that has now reached unprecedented proportions, that goes right to the heart of global warming and oil-industry monopolies on thousands of products and their extended infrastructure.
I’ve said it before, it is too big for mortals, our economy is in the grip of a subterfuge of spiritual influences that join their mortal co-conspirators, to promote an age of greed.
We can move our economic model to the center, and tap a middle-class consumer base that is wealthier, busier, and more active than any in history, and spends more of its abundance than any other consumer-class in history.
Which assures ALL classes a continued, and reliable abundance, without the precipitous rise and fall of a supply-side, book-cooker’s economic model.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 65
LOL! snark, I know, but still so accurate…
Things have to look up in Iraq, for the US to justify a pull-back to the borders. This will be presented as a “light at the end of the tunnel”, while what it really will be is a troop buildup on the border with Iran. Hence, the “good news.” The next step after that should be a false-flag op set up to incriminate Iran.
We all know what comes after that.
selise @ 64
Thank you for the link. The site’s author links us to a beautiful song written after millions were killed in another war. Worth listening to. Here’s a voice from the present.
JEP @ 57
huh?
are you saying we did not bomb iraqis during the clinton years? that we did not actively prevent water purification equipment from getting to iraqis? that we did not actively prevent chemotherapy treatments from getting to iraqis?
I’m wondering if Americans should start deducting KBR’s contract revenues from their tax returns..
Another mining accident in Indiana today, btw.. we’re going on about one major mining accident a week now… Welcome to China.
oh, and Texas is about to execute some guy who even the prosecutors say didn’t murder anybody but the state say’s he should’ve known his friend was about to commit to murder… so under the TX Black Man Guilt by Association law, he dies… welcome to.. I dunno.. what country executes people they KNOW are innocent?
I give up
anangryoldbroad @ 53
Oops! A thinko. That “not” was supposed to read “now”. ;-)
dakine01
No, this was the real one – unless the parody was printed in bulk quantities! They had WSJ t-shirts on, too.
BTW selise has a diary up at dailykos encapsulating her excellent posts here in the comments on how the FISA revision got passed in the House. She also includes a link to pow wow’s coverage of what happened in the Senate.
It is here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/9/175141/9215
selise:
I read your great stuff about the FISA bill yesterday. The Matt Stoller piece Jane Hamsher linked to was a good complement to it.
One person’s quagmire is another’s strategic placement. As long as the US Army is forward-deployed in the Mideast, it has veto power in the region, while drawing down the occupation gives up the advantages of position. There will be no withdrawal-but there wil be a large troop movement toward Iran, IMO.
Dear JEP @ 57: You might find this quote from David Rieff (NYT magazine, 7/29/03) interesting:
For many people, the sanctions on Iraq were one of the decade’s great crimes, as appalling as Bosnia or Rwanda. Anger at the United States and Britain, the two principal architects of the policy, often ran white hot. Denis J. Halliday, the United Nations humanitarian coordinator in Iraq for part of the sanctions era, expressed a widely held belief when he said in 1998: “We are in the process of destroying an entire society. It is as simple and terrifying as that.” Even today, Clinton-era American officials ranging from Madeleine K. Albright, the former secretary of state, and James P. Rubin, State Department spokesman under Albright, to Nancy E. Soderberg, then with the National Security Council, speak with anger and bitterness over the fervor of the anti-sanctions camp. As Soderberg put it to me, “I could not give a speech anywhere in the U.S. without someone getting up and accusing me of being responsible for the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children.”
P J Evans @ 77
I’m in San Antonio so wouldn’t have known. I just read that there was someone (MoveOn maybe?) that was going to be giving out parody copies substituting the NYPost syle headlines for news stories.
Laura – good point. And of course when Medeleine was asked about the deaths of all those children she said “the price is worth it.”
Laura Doty @ 81
One of those people, of course, was OBL. I believe this grievance was his #2.
I was just on a press briefing call with a congresswoman who has been on the Pentagon tour of Iraq and Afghanistan. Apparently Petreaus said that they are making military progress (and it sounds like Sen Durbin said this last week so I will be checking on that) and that he expected the US military to be involved in Iraq for 9-10 years more.
Siun @ 83
Have you verified that quote, Siun? I haven’t seen the entire comment, and have wondered if the quote reflected the context. (I’m not defending Albright, I just want accuracy).
Siun @ 83
and to think that John Lennon sang ‘How Do You Sleep at Night’ to Paul McCartney over some trivial feud….
Laura Doty @ 81
It would have been instructive to hear the response to the accusation, as the reasoning behind it seems very sound.
Siun @ 85
Absolutely predicted: Balad’s military hospital was upgraded to enormous size and permanence and is staffed by both ASAF and US Army. It’s strategically located for both Iran and Iraq deployment. Please note that a ten year time frame is given in the linked story.
….or until the oil runs out, whichever might come first. And Iran being just next door, strategy is scalable.
I did have an opportunity to ask a question during this call – and as soon as I get the recording of it I will give a better summary – and asked if there was any discussion of the strategy of increased air strikes on residential neighborhoods in Iraq and the air strikes in Afghanistan. The congresswoman said that there was some discussion of Afghan dispeasure with the number of civilian casualties but that the air striked in Baghdad were not discussed in the briefing – and that no one asked about them.
And yet another war mongering company making a nice little tasty profit with a division sale to Saudi Arabia.
N=1 @ 89
Wow. But, I just cannot fathom how US forces could possibly be deployed into Iran. Impossible. Airstrikes, yes. Rockets, yes. Troops – not a chance.
Oh, and from my previous comment at 92 how about this telling quote?
The coup d’etat in les Etats Unis is complete. The corporations have won.
Albright quote, with context and analysis.
Siun @ 85
Think Progress noted that Durbin’s comments last week have been distorted: find it here.
Per Wiki, Iran’s military:
“These forces total about 545,000 active personnel.[2] Both fall under the commands of the Ministry’s of Defence & Armed Forces Logistics.[3]
* The Islamic Republic of Iran Army consists of the Islamic Republic of Iran Army, Islamic Republic of Iran Navy, Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force. The regular armed forces have an estimated 420,000 personnel: the Islamic Republic of Iran Army, 350,000 personnel; the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy, 18,000 personnel; and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force, 52,000 airmen.[4]
* The Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution, or Revolutionary Guards, has an estimated 125,000 personnel in five branches: Its own Navy, Air Force, and Ground Forces; the Quds Force (Special Forces), and the Basij (militia).[5]
The Basij (or Baseej) is a paramilitary volunteer force controlled by the Islamic Revolutionary Guards; it includes about 90,000 full-time, active-duty uniformed Basij members, up to 300,000 reservists, and a further 11 million men and women who could be mobilized.[6]”
No way US troops will be deployed to Iran. Nah.
Siun @ 85
This is the strategic patience line that Cordesman is selling. Progress in Iraq has been limited, temporary, and above all illusory. It underlines why generals and military analysts should not be let near political decisions about withdrawal –because they are so boneheaded stupid about it.
LS #93,
I profoundly hope you’re right, but-my bet is on a full-scale invasion, using the troops already in Iraq.
Laura Doty @ 81
thank you laura. many americans still don’t know much about it – or about Denis Halliday, Hans von Sponeck or Jutta Burghardt (see here). i remember when halliday and von sponeck wrote an oped in 2001 – they couldn’t get it placed in any american paper (it was published in the guardian)
An attack on Iran? Cheney can barely control himself. How about a simultaneous attack on Iran and Pakistan. I’m not talking about troops going in. I am spesking of something much more eye-popping.
I just caught the end of an NPR report saying the the British are planning on pulling out of Basara. If that’s true, we are so fucked since they are the only thing keeping the supply (and retreat) lines to Kuwait open.
RonD @ 96
Typing through tears. Thank you RonD. That’s very clear.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 102
You mean eye melting? I wouldn’t put it past him. They’ve been wanting to use nukes for a long time and it is only fear of public reaction that has held anyone back.
The major plans for Iran attack involve carpet bombing of up to 200 locations. In the world of illusion our “leaders” live in, they may assume that US forces can then walk into Iran … then again they assume US forces can stay for 10 years in Iraq – the Iranian and Iraqi people will, I suspect, have something to say about both ideas.
RonD @ 100
Did you see the figures in my comment at 98? Iran is huge. There is no way in hell, the US could fight that force on their territory. They won’t lay down their arms like the Iraqis did. They are not Arabs, their culture is completely different.
I believe that Cheney will attempt to go forward with airstrikes though, which will completely imperil our troops in Iraq.
I think the Republicans really think they are doing the right thing, I mean deep down. But I believe they are mistaken. They are kind of like the pre-civil rights racists who believed that God used a color-coded goodness scale (kind of like the terror alert color scale). Well they really believed they were right, it was fused into their backbones. How can you deny the “rightness” of that?
But it was wrong. I think the Republicans have had to resort to lying and cheating and stealing because they are blinded by their loyalty to their crumbling testimony. And this makes them very dangerous. They are the crazed bull in the ring, the one that is becoming aware. In bull fighting, your goal is to wear the bull down physically so you can kill it at the moment it realizes the enemy is not the cape, but the matador. Then, and only then is it momentarily safe (relatively speaking), to drive the sword between the neck and the shoulder blades. As a matador, if you miss this moment for the kill, you will be fighting a crazed, but aware, bull. This is a bad thing for a bull fighter.
To me, the Republicans are the crazed bull, and the democrats are really wimpy matadors.
Jane is upstairs, but let’s not make this thread invisible.
thank you Siun, as always.
oops. Forgot the link: /www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/10/invisible-women/
Siun @ 85
Absolutely predicted: Balad’s military hospital was upgraded to enormous size and permanence and is staffed by both ASAF and US Army. it’s strategically located for both Iran and Iraq deployment.LS @ 93
Aren’t there already special ops in country? It would be airstrikes and recovery and extraction missions (Have no idea if this terminology is correct – what I mean is getting special ops people out and rescuing downed aircraft crew)
Bother. can you tell I’m home sick today? jane.
And I don’t even want to be OT here.
LS, I did indeed read your figures, which would certainly deter most rational people, and I have nothing but compliments for your research-but I don’t believe the current Junta is entirely rational. My sense is, they believe the force-multipliers provided by high-tech, the USAF, and USN will more than offset local Iranian numerical superiority, and they’re going to go for it.
Again, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.
Ah, look at all the lonely people.
Ah, look at all the lonely people.
Republican party, picks up the trash in the hall where their meeting has been
Lives in a dream.
Stares out the the window, wearing a smile that would bring out a blush in a whore,
Who is it for?
All the corporate big-wigs, where do they all come from?
All the corporate big-wig, where do they all belong?
Deadeye Dick Cheney, writing the words of a speech that no-body will hear.
No-one comes near
Look at him working, hand up his sockpuppet Bush when there’s nobody there,
For whom does he care?
All his corporate buddies, where do they all come from?
All the corporate buddies, where do they all belong?
Ah, look at all the lonely people.
Ah, look at all the lonely people.
Republican Party, lied to the church about Foley and all those big sins.
So how can they win?
Deadeye Dick Cheney, wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave.
No-one was saved.
Except the corporate big wigs, where do they all come from?
All the corporate big wigs, where do they all belong?
So. Given that we do not have a democracy, how does one stop a junta?
Siun @ 106
is cheney OBL’S puppet? i think AQ would like nothing better than to provoke us to start a war with iran.
Laura, they won’t be stopped until the masses feel the pain and start demanding accountability, and the financial interests decide that the Junta is costing them too much money.
Answers in the passive voice, and/or that involve faceless others doing something don’t work for me. But perhaps my phrasing wasn’t useful.
Would this be better: how do we stop a junta?
Or. Anyone want to stop a junta with me?
selise @ 116
Selise, I think it’s actually the otherway around. I don’t think it is any accident that AQ has grown in strength. the neo-con’s need the terrorists in order to move their larger agenda.
I tried at the time of the sanctions to make a suggestion about it, I actually wrote to Clinton about it, (hey, we all have our own delusions, I didn’t say he read it, for all I know) way back then, and I always suggested that during that entire period of sanctions, if we had been air-dropping food to the local Iraqis who were being starved by Saddam, on red-white-and-blue plates stamped with a message to them that we cared, then they would eventually realize we weren’t the enemy Saddam told them we were, and would rise up and defy his rule.
Simplistic solution, I realize, but certainly better than the one we came up with at the time.
Had we been more generous through the sanctions era, with FOOD, NOT MONEY, made from Kansas Wheat, Iowa Corn, California almonds, Idaho Potatoes, Texas beef, and Georgia Peaches, they might have actually welcomed us with open arms when we did come to “liberate” them.
So I do hold every administration accountable for their mistakes, but my observation was quite accurate, to say it happened “under” Clinton means Clinton controlled Iraq, and he didn’t, ever.
Bush is the only American President who has ever been “King of Babylon.”
SO to say it happened UNDER Bush IS an accurate appraisal.
selise @ 116
that is something we need to talk about much more at THIS moment, after-the-fact, it will be a lot like Iraq, the lie was so big, no one could NOT believe it.
But it took them a 9-11 to get thier political adversaries into full-on stupid mode, to enable the attack in Iraq.
Wonder what it will take this time around?
Wonder what it will take this time around?
you do not want the proof of a smoking city over your mushroom to be…………
OT – is tweety drunk today?
Republican Party
(to the tune of “Eleanor Rigby”)
Ah, look at all the lonely people.
Ah, look at all the lonely people.
Republican Party, picks up the trash
in the hall where their meeting has been
Lives in a dream.
Stares out the the window, wearing a smile
that could bring out the blush on a whore.
Who is it for?
All the corporate big-wigs, where do they all come from?
All the corporate big-wigs, where do they all belong?
Deadeye Dick Cheney, writing the words of a speech that nobody believes,
The web that he weaves: look at him working,
hand up the sockpuppet Bush when there’s nobody there,
Who do they care for?
All their corporate buddies, where do they all come from?
All their corporate buddies, where do they all belong?
Ah, look at all the lonely people.
Ah, look at all the lonely people.
Republican Party, lied to the church
about Foley and other big sins.
How can they win?
Turdblossom’s done now,
wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave.
No R was saved.
Except the corporate big wigs, where do they all come from?
All the corporate big wigs, where DO they all belong?
LS @ 34
Please, someone. Pay Attention.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg
Sigh . . .
N=1 @ 41
Spook Abides, Doncha Know . . *G*
Laura Doty @ 43
How many decades of evil?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg
larue @ 127
Man, that third “pic” at leveymg’s Journal is, well, chilling.