I really don’t want to go here again but a very self-serving notion has taken off regarding the blogosphere in the MSM, namely that the liberal blogosphere is a male dominated boys club. In support of this, Ellen Goodman today has to erase us and other female bloggers from the landscape in order to make her point. She says:
Last week, these progressive political bloggers not only attracted 1,200 to Chicago for the Yearly Kos convention, but made it a designated stop for seven out of the eight Democratic candidates.
Nevertheless, there is another, less flattering way in which broadband has followed broadcast and the liberal political bloggers mimic the conservative talk-show hosts. The chief messengers are overwhelmingly men — white men, even angry white men.
Really? Because Goodman herself wasn’t there and my experience was more like Digby’s:
I have to say that I was a little bit non-plussed by this article in the Washington Post today saying that it was nothing but a bunch of middle aged white men. It reminded me of a scene from the HBO show “Six Feet Under” where Kathy Bates takes her recently widowed pal into a department store for some recreational shop-lifting, chiding her for not fully taking advantage of the fact that middle aged women are completely invisible. Perhaps being a member of that contingent myself, I noticed that there were a great many of them present at this convention (and I think I hugged every one of them.) They were present in large numbers at every event I attended, listening attentively and asking probing questions. Next year maybe we can all wear bells or something so the press will know we’re there.
Goodman goes on to point to some vague statistics in support of her thesis:
I began tracking the maleness of this media last spring while I was a visiting fellow at Harvard’s Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics, and Public Policy. An intrepid graduate student created a spreadsheet of the top 90 political blogs. A full 42 percent were edited and written by men only, while 7 percent were by women only. Another 45 percent were edited or authored by both men and women, though the “coed” mix was overwhelmingly male. And, not surprisingly, most male bloggers linked to male bloggers.
What exactly was the methodology behind this study? The “top 90 political blogs” would necessarily includes right wing blogs — Powerline, Instapundit, Little Green Footballs and the rest of the right wing wrong-o-sphere certainly tend to skew white and male. Yet Goodman is drawing conclusions about “liberal political blogs” based on this study. Which is it? I’m reminded of Chris Matthews’ comment to Mark Halperin: “So there is a right-wing net roots as well as a left-wing net roots?” People tend to overlook them because of their irrelevance, but they are well trafficked and they do exist.
Article after article are now being generated as if something has been proven but they do so only by ignoring the fact that almost all of the most highly trafficked blogs in the liberal political blogosphere are either run by women or have significant female front page presence. Eyeballs equals influence, and any kind of measure that is being taken of women in the blogosphere needs to take account of that, something I doubt anybody involved knows enough about to try and measure in anything but the crudest form.
In terms of traffic (based on figures for this past week) the top liberal political blogs are :
1. Arianna Huffington at the Huffington Post. 70 million page views per month (reported). Nobody has the influence and reach she has on a day to day basis.
2. Daily Kos. 5 million impressions per week. Front pagers McJoan, BarbinMD, MissLaura and SusanG I would estimate get at least 50% of the front page real estate over there.
3. Crooks and Liars. 1.8 million impressions per week. While John Amato spends his days watching cable news and making video clips, Nicole Belle alone is responsible for a majority of the front page writing.
4. Eschaton. 658,000 impressions per week. Duncan Black is pretty much a one man band, but when he’s on vacation two of his four regular guest posters are women, Avedon and Echidne (though lord knows, Thers is trying).
5. Americablog. 563,000 impressions per week. Front pager Pam Spaulding.
6. Firedoglake. 500,000 impressions per week. Myself, Christy Hardin-Smith, Siun, emptywheel, watertiger, Tula, Phoenix Woman and looseheadprop.
[All figures except the HuffPo via Advertise Liberally. I didn't include TPM or Raw Story on the list because strictly speaking they're not blogs, they're online news services, and Democratic Underground is a message board. I don't know enough about the gender composition at DU, but if anyone does, please share it in the comments. All of these sites are extremely valuable as part of the larger netroots, but operating on a different model than blogs.]
So how does this work out in terms of links? Let’s look at Technorati’s ranking:
5. Huffington Post (18,970)
8. Daily Kos (13,306)
22. Crooks and Liars (8,485)
195. FDL (2979)
229. Atrios (2,843)
438. Americablog (2,213)
Relative to this week’s traffic, we’re actually getting more links than Atrios or Americablog (though weekly traffic figures are a bit fluid and in terms of traffic we tend to jockey around in those three spots depending on what topics are cycling into the news). Also, there’s something weird about the way Technorati reads AmericaBlog and its statistics have been wildly off in the past so I actually think their ranking is somewhat higher, but you get the picture. Either there are some men linking to us or those links are controlled by women, and either one tends to tell a significantly different tale than the neat, pre-packaged Jiffy Pop one that so many in the MSM are anxious to embrace.
As Amanda Marcotte said in our comments the other day in response to the Washington Post article that started all of this:
The article mentioned a panel that I was on and we very pointedly said that women were in abundance at the conference and in the blogosphere. We were talking about attempts to silence female voices, but it was well-noted that said attempts were largely unsuccessful.
There’s plenty of sexism in the blogosphere, don’t get me wrong, with a strong dose coming from the right wing and an even stronger dose coming from the “why don’t you link to me” crowd on the left. But this “there are no women in the blogosphere” whinge is deeply sexist and insulting to those of us with two X chromosomes who work all day at this and what we’ve managed to achieve. And none of these articles have included the perspective of any of the women listed above, or those of other successful female bloggers like Digby, Pandagon, TalkLeft or Taylor Marsh. It’s a narrative that both wingnuts and the MSM alike are fond of pushing and my guess is that it’s off to the races thanks to misniformation provided by people who don’t blog, aren’t the community builders of the blogosphere and haven’t had enough exposure to it to have any kind of sophistication to their analysis. With people in the MSM on the receiving end only too willing to erase us women from the political landscape in order to grind their axe, I don’t expect we’ll be getting the kind of credit we deserve any time soon.
(photo by Maxim Kalmykov)
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Jane! FDL is my go-to blog for news and analysis. And I’ve never been better informed in my life.
2?
tres
Wow.
Retirin- Congrats. I can’t believe I opened to this and took a leisurely read! But, happy with my 2-fer.
Powerful stuff Jane. It is a little like the writing of history. Funny how the women’s roles and voices get continually left out. It is a bit like the breeding of horses, and the designation of fowls as “out of” X, the mother, as if the only visible (read) good genes come from the father.
I’m an angry 1/2 white man. I’m what someone close by refers to as light brown on the outside side and red on the inside. But neither one of us have ever seen a red Indian. Except the ones who are sunburned.;0)
I wonder how many of those seven Democratic candidates were women?
Ah … but so much easier to dismiss us all on the claim that we are sexist than to deal with our thoughts and media critique.
Perhaps Ellen should receive a set of photos of all of us who Jane mentioned as front pagers on major blogs?
As they say, “you go girl.”
Don’t forget there are some very good women bloggers over at TAPPED, and Jessica and the gang over at Feministing cover lots of issues.
FDL will always be a special place for women’s voices.
I’ve been out of town for the past week, but checking into firedoglake occasionally. And I’m always grateful that I can come here to find out from the wonderful women who keep this blog going what’s REALLY happening out in the real world, not just what the MSM reports.
Richmond — just refreshing luck on my part.
But I meant what I said about FDL. I’ve fully kicked the MSM habit. From time to time I’ll catch a few minute of Wolfie but only to spur my sarcasm jones about what’s not being covered.
To the heavy lifters and the commentors here……kudos. You make my lurkin’ both possible and highly productive.
1. Arianna Huffington at the Huffington Post. 70 million page views per month (reported). Nobody has the influence and reach she has on a day to day basis.
2. Daily Kos. 5 million impressions per week. Front pagers McJoan, BarbinMD, MissLaura and SusanG I would estimate get at least 50% of the front page real estate over there.
unfortunately, these are shrill points you are making. Perhaps you are trying to compete with the hate of the ‘male’ blogosphere?
(um. satire.)
Richmond @ 5
Horsefeathers? Fowls are birds; foals are little horses. g.)
Probably a typo, though, as w and a are near each other.
Richmond @ 5
That’s funny and interesting. Horse breeders the world over all know that the quality of your herd depends upon your mares. In the Arab countries the wealth of the horse breeding tribes was defined by the mare line. The stallion was considered a pain in the behind. Also, they only rode females into battle, because stallions made too much noise and alerted the enemy and were unreliable.
Siun @ 8
Or maybe someone could just send her links to TexBetsy’s pictures from YKos
And Arianna’s over-rated!
I have to say this for Senator Clinton. She surely knows, should she become president, that she will be held to an unfair higher standard that would a man. There is voice inside me that says I’d love to shove Hillary Clinton down the GOP’s throats.
yellowdogD @ 13
LOL- Friday PM- time for a beer, so I can run a-fowl of the law ;-/
apparently there are a lot of people who don’t let facts get in the way of their reporting…
damnable women
“Journalists” are still willfully clueless about bloggers and blogging.
In other news, poop still stinks. :p
(Sorry, couldn’t help myself. Must be angry or sumpin’.)
What’s spooky about all this rewriting is that you can really see how later on “historically speaking,” they could refer back to “contemporary articles” and “show” that women were not involved in the blogosphere…
Crazy making stuff…
I read this blog everyday. The top blogs are important, but are not all of what blogs are about. Most people who read blogs read a variety of them and women are well represented in topical blogs.
It just kills me when I read political talk that seems oblivious to humanity, as if politics is like billiards. I cheered when I discovered Reddhead here. Christy always puts politics where in belongs: in service of citizens. Of course all you do here, all the writers and the community of people who leave comments. Thank you 1000 times Jane!
Sure lots of the people who comment are obviously women and others obviously men, but there’s a great number that it isn’t clear. I love that, gender, race, age is often besides the point. Blogs are many to many conversations. It’s not just the “famous” writers, although you’re right to point out many of the best are women, but it’s all of us. The community is diverse.
Arianna. Helen Thomas, and a couple of other women is who I generally turn my attention to. Molly Ivins used to be in that group.
What is the old saying, ‘quiet women do not make history’.
This is the place where it all began for me, this is home.
I am still amazed daily at the level of sophistication that this blog dishes out and I am here to tell these idjits that you try to dismiss the ladies who blog here at your own peril.
I actually like the ladies views better than I do most of the male political blogs that I read regularly.
And if you want to talk about manpower, getting folks to get up and get things done, I have yet to see any equal to this place, period.
Try to skew what is there as plain as the nose on my face and all you will get is an extended middle finger.
Arianna is a favorite in this house.
LS @ 14
stallions made too much noise and alerted the enemy and were unreliable.
LS: I think you are speaking here of the rethugs, and their Fox talking heads, rather than just horses, No?
Well, on the bright side, at least the MSM has gotten rid of the Bloggers as PJ clad teeny-boppers!!! ;-)
Richmond @ 27
:>
“…because stallions made too much noise and alerted the enemy and were unreliable.”
ain’t it the truth?
Renee in Ohio @ 21
I use the term willfully obtuse but same difference
I knew I came here for a reason (the best blogging I’ve ever seen and the only honest stuff in town), but I didn’t know so many others came here, too! I only go to Huffpo when I’m caught up with FDL and looking for more sensational headlines and such. I hate running into trolls, so I rarely comment over there anymore.
Jane,
My only thought on this is that it is sometimes dangerous (to the person) to argue with people who have already made up their minds. In such cases they determine an outcome and then seek information that supports this outcome. If they happen to find information that is contrary to their thesis, this information is discarded as being unreliable.
Such expressions are rampant in our media. The current, “Surge is working” theme is another example. If they seek only information that supports the idea of the surge, you can bet the house that is all they will find. (The July casualty figures are excellent examples: yes, the casualties are significantly lower than they were in June. But they ALWAYS are and the current JULY figures are significantly HIGHER than any other July. But, again, contrary information is discarded as being either irrelevant or unreliable.)
But carry on: maybe someone will listen.
“Well-behaved women rarely make history”
Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Richmond @ 27
Horses, Horses’ asses…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
Not lookin’ to argue, OKK, and respect your right to a contrary opinion. I appreciate the diversity of viewpoint available here.
So, let me see if I understand this correctly: cleavage is bad, because no one should ever know that we are really female. But those of us who are women and who blog shouldn’t count on being counted by anyone who ought to know better.
Even if a whole helluva lot of people read us on a daily basis, or if we were on panel after panel at YKos right in front of them on the schedule. Um…yeah…got it.
Excellent piece of fact accumulation, Jane — although I’m not holding my breath on a correction or anything. Or course, if I did, it might make my cleavage stick out more or something, which is apparently a no no.
Renee in Ohio @ 34
Thank you.
My memory ain’t memorex for sure.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 37
Maybe you all should show more cleavage next time you’re at a big blogger convention ;-) Then maybe they’d notice you.
SufiLizard @ 39
and thongs
Jane,
Thanks to you, Christy, Marcy, and looseheadprop, I look forward to a daily dose of sensible female commentaries. In fact, in terms of eyeball time, I’ll bet I spend more time reading women’s blogs than men’s. I just wish Christy’s essays on the Constitution were on the front page of the WaPo or NYT every day.
Thanks to the Ladies of the Lake for all they do!
Bob in HI
Christy Hardin Smith @ 37
Surely you wouldn’t want Ann Althouse discussing that you have breasts now would you?
If you define Flickr as part of the extended blogosphere, this is kind of interesting: Should we take up a collection to buy Hillary Clinton her own Flickr pro account? All three of the leading Democratic presidential candidates now have Flickr accounts. Of the three, Hillary is the only one who does not have a pro account as of this writing. In fact, she doesn’t seem to have an official campaign Flickr site at all. More at my blog, Letter from Here.
Elliott @ 40
The more the merrier…!!! ;-)
Well, there is some progress. At least Ellen Goodman acknowledged the blogosphere is middle-aged white men instead of acne-faced teenagers. I suppose the old white guy thing fits the dirty-fucking-hippy meme better. Don’t you just love modern journamalism?
One of the things I like about reading blogs and their commenters is this: with most screen names, one can’t tell whether the writer is male, female, vegetable or mineral-and this focuses the attention on the content of the posts, separated from any preconception. One must judge a post purely by intellectual value.
CTuttle @ 44
if punaise were around he might say you were pretty cheeky
RonD @ 46
Maybe you can’t tell by the screen names, but you can usually identify a vegetable by the right-wing sites they’re on ;-)~
This is the only place I comment. It is by far the smartest, most thought provoking, illuminating, funniest, and energized site I visit. The topics are strong (and thrust at us with frequency (male metaphor-snark). I also like the generally polite frame of the discourse (female metaphor-no snark) which makes it real nice in a hard work day. The mods are great (on the ball, and gentle).
My usual order of things for the web is: Think Progress (they have the quickest news updates), FDL, Raw, C & L, FDL, Huff, FDL, media matters, FDL, FDL, FDL…..(refresh button).
This is how a blog works. Someone in the corporate world or MSM world says something that is stupid and flat out wrong. The Bloggers report the facts (good job Jane). One day soon, the MSM will be deeply embarrassed and they will be replaced by citizen journalism that has to go through the fire of daylight — each story refined by upto several hundred comments.
Jane, you, the other headline bloggers, and we citizen participants are helping to build the next platform for democracy. Thank you all.
furthermore, the ladies here enforce order and civility in a way that seems to have eluded most, if not all, male bloggers. This is the only place I know of where you can have a civil, intelligent discussion without swarms of trolls spewing rancid illiterate filth all over the thing.
Come to think of it, when we do get trolls, they are usually coherent and reasonably well behaved……FDL even attracts a higher quality troll!
Thanks to all of the ladies of the lake for keeping us lurkers so well informed. I read lots of blogs, and my daily Froomkin, but I always go to FDL first and last.
Madison Guy @ 43
This one’s the weirdest I’ve seen so far
Elliott @ 47
I only worry about Suzeanne…!!! 8-)
dakine01 @ 15
Maybe lady bloggers at Conventions should take a tip from Hillary: wear bright turquoise jackets! It was impossible not to notice Hillary on the stage with all those grey-suited men at the Presidential Leaders panel. And I don’t know how they could have missed Christy unless they were color-blind in the Red part of the spectrum!
Bob in HI
I have to say Phoenix woman is one of my favorites.
oddmommy @ 51
CTuttle @ 54
and well you should!
SufiLizard #48,
I avoid right-wing vegetables whenever I can, by whatever means necessary.
:)
yellowdogD @ 13
Horsefeathers are lovely on the drafts – what would a shire or a clyde be without them? *g*
bring on the cleavage. Boobs are beautiful.
oddmommy @ 61
I have to agree, I was trained at birth to look for them.
;-)
I am hearing the siren call of an Indian maiden coming from the back yard. Lahoma is telling me there is a dead scorpion floating in the pool. So I say have you though about getting it out. “She say’s no way. You’re the warrior; I’m the thinker.” Looks like this calls for dynamic action. I’ve got to be a hero. Again. The demands on a “warrior” are tuff. God, I love this woman. ;0)
We don’t see it very much at the Lake, but the truth is Conservatives practice the one-up/one-down approach to relationships – and Conservative Women are almost always in the one-down position.
Jane, Christy, EW, looseheadprop, watertiger, Siun, Tula, and the rest of the Ladies of the Lake – the Goopers are afraid of you – you’re empowered women, and that’s a frightening thought for Gooper men.
Please, keep slinging the Snark and may all women find their inspiration for personal freedom and equality in the work you do!
watertiger is a tigress? *clueless*
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
Watch out! Scorpions like to play dead. Don’t pick it up with your fingers.
Angry white males or not, bloggers are privileged to have ‘net access
http://blogs.dmregister.com/?p=7462
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 12
Don’t worry Mabel, we know ya.
It is kinda weird. I was at both YearlyKos’s and women were all over the place. I suspect that Goodman only reads blogs like TPM and MyDD where there *is* an overabundance of testosterone. But DailyKos is strongly coed and has a lot of women users.
I just don’t get it. But as you point out, she wasn’t there.
So, what is the point of the “angry white male bloggers” meme? Because it seems to getting traction and we need to figure this out before it does any damage.
Goodman illustrates a growing distinction between MSM and bloggers: for the MSM, perception is portrayed as reality, and for the most part, it’s a one way presentation, with little or no interaction expected nor desired from readers.
For bloggers, perception is investigated, statistics and analysis are applied, and the presentation is held out for scrutiny, critique and revision – interaction is the norm and is encouraged.
oddmommy @ 51
This is almost the only site I’m aware of where people can politely disagree.
It would be interesting sometime to see a collection of FDL “outtakes”. Stuff people have tried to post that has been moderated out…so we continue to appreciate the opportunity given us here.
Thanks again, Jane, Christy, and all.
puppethead @ 45
Are we at silver lining time?
Elliott @ 40
Shiney thongs!
NinjaGoat @ 53
Now this one is.
Seriously, does this make any sense to anyone?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
Go forth, warrior, and ,aybe you’ll get laid tonight. Get to examine some of that ‘cleavage’ “up close and personal.” It’s certainly hit night for me — just haven’t told Mrs. Retirin’ yet. And it ain’t really the euphesism ‘cleavage’ or ‘boobs’. It’s tits. They’re exciting. They’re magical. Thank you Jeebus.
It’s not just the pages, this site attracts a readership that is very well informed. A lot of great links get posted in the comments section and it’s hard to follow them all!
My goodness, not enough female bloggers but then ads are hard to get because of female bloggers.. Think I’ll go watch Catch-22. Seriously the FDL group, including the guys, is by far the most informative site and thanks.
So I take it I fit their preferred definition to a tee. Middle aged, white , balding, pissed off progressive?
I wouldn’t stand a chance against any female intellect here, not a chance.
What I find very curious is why this is a topic in the MSM. Suppose it’s true. What does that mean? The ideas should then be discounted? Women don’t voice political ideas? Leftists are conceptual drag queens? Left wing blogs are not good dating scenes unless your gay? It just seems like a really odd meme want to push. Any ideas why this is so interesting to the MSM?
actually, I find this fixation on the supposed predominance of white male progresssive bloggers to be kind of fishy. It reeks of a massive right wing conspiracy, or whatever Hillary called them. Because the “right” (wrong) side of the world usually IS populated predominantly by white males. Are they trying to tar us with their own feather……or something?
RonD @ 71
Christy has politely threatened to open the gates some day and let us see everything caught backstage. I shudder to think on it myself…
Ms. Redshift and I were talking about this after the Post article came out. It’s weird how this stuff can seep into your brain. We were agreeing that the article was clearly off, and there were plenty of women there, but (unsurprisingly) the people who are techie enough to blog and can afford to go to the convention are going to be slanted white male, and more so than the blogosphere as a whole.
Then we got to looking at our photos, and particularly the ones taken in the ballroom with the large crowds, and said “Damn! That’s just completely wrong!” But even an article we disagreed with had shaded our memories a bit.
dakine01 @ 81
we’re lucky to have those mods to stand on the front line for us.
I think this comment is related because the issue is what is being “reported” in the MSM. Has anyone ever analyzed the educational background of the top MSM reporters?
Maureen O’Dowd once famously made a crack something like…people in MSM are supposed to be Journalists not Stenographers. The lazy persons “journalism” of just parroting what someone else has already said seems to be behind many of the inaccuracies I see people complaining about on blogs.
Has there been some meltdown in the colleges and maybe just as likely at the on the job training locations people in MSM experience on their way up? Maybe tracking down where they studied and where they worked in their early years in the business might shed a little light on why so many of them think it perfectly acceptable to report what others have said as absolute fact.
But hey, I am no journalist or even a stenographer so what do I know;)
FWIW, I did email goodman with this information, and noted she clearly spent no time herself in the blogosphere, linking to Jane’s post. Took me a while to find it too; I’m behind my reading because of post YKos video requests, and getting caught up on new projects.
It was weird that Goodman quoted a female source on Arianna’s post in mid article about how there was no access.
And, can I just say, as I was so joyfully able to say in Chicago, very briefly, taking advantage of my backstage access, but to her face, “we all love digby.” Also told her we named one of our three YKSL venues after her. She looked confused. And I moved on.
And, Ellen, that was gender-free love. Time to move into this millennium. In the blogosphere, nobody knows whether you’re pure bred standard poodle, or a declining mutt. (Tough peusdo-emergency day at the vet with Gracie today. She’s okay, but more meds.)
This is interesting to the MSM because the blogs are a threat to the MSM, and this meme marginalizes the blogs as irrelevant and sexist. That strategy dovetails nicely with the fact that the corporate masters of the MSM support Republicans, and the blogosphere that matters is overwhelmingly democratic or liberal. A two-for-one.
Then we got to looking at our photos, and particularly the ones taken in the ballroom with the large crowds, and said “Damn! That’s just completely wrong!” But even an article we disagreed with had shaded our memories a bit.
on a union strike once. freezing cold. freezing drizzle for a week of four hour shifts outside. And going home to watch the ‘TV news’ report the days event.
Huh? What was that?
30 second images of a major citywide work civil service union work stoppage!
it’s just so ………….shallow-ized. the tv news, that is.
i cue up FDL first every day and usually last at night. Digby is most often my second blog to read. Billmon no longer publishes Whisky Bar and Steve Gilliard is no longer with us. other blogs have their purposes for me but i don’t read them nearly so much.
the most significant issue here is more of who is more influential and which blogs have effected the most change. i think none of them out rank Hullabaloo and the Lake regardless of the number of hits they get. have any bloggers, or MSM pundits, had more impact on the American political stage in the past twelve months than Jane, Christy and Marcy? not bloody likely.
retirin’ in five @ 75
A-hem. *I* wanted to be the boob cheerleader on this thread, and now you’ve UPPED me. : )
Elliott @ 83
I still maintain the menu from my 12th birthday party was relevant to any and all discussions during the scooter libby liveblogging. but no. the moderater deemed it fit to persecute me yet again.
Mabel, some night on Late Night we’d love to see it.
:)
realworld @ 79
My only guess, and it’s a long shot, is to discourage -more- women from getting involved. Apparently bloggers love the balanced exchange of ideas. The feminine perspective provides a comfortable counterweight to other forums of communication.
Oh gawd, and now Chris Matthews is going to have a “debate” about whether it is okay for Hillary to say “girl” — sheesh!
heh RonD @ 91.
“It’s around here somewhere.”
Redshift @ 82
Exactly the same thought I had. I’m SO tempted to whip out a bunch of photos that show the composition of the audiences and panels and say, “Look! No Women!”
Gah. F*cking misogyny — and even within our own kind. I’d like to slap Goodman for this stupidity…
Hell, what am I thinking? SPOTLIGHT this piece of crap, lazy-assed writing; tell the editorial staff at the Boston Globe that the “Where are the Women?” theme in regards to blogging has been done to death for YEARS and at this point only indicates utter laziness on the part of the contributor (I hesitate to use the word “journalist”).
Both a Perseus study and the Pew Internet and American Life studies have shown that women are a larger percentage of bloggers as of a couple of years ago. The real story now is why the hell this “Where are the Women?” theme still being permitted in corporate media any longer.
“A-hem. *I* wanted to be the boob cheerleader on this thread, and now you’ve UPPED me. : ) “
Yes, dear my plans for the evening have “firmed up.” Won’t even need help from the med cabinet, it looks like.
But, damn……….completely irrational, and yet such a magical effect!
John Johnson @ 84
Actually, many of them are less skilled than Vana White who turns the letters on that game show – and she is the model for the lot of them.
In truth, with the live blogging of the Libby trial and some of the senate hearings (along with the accompanying legal commentary) this is where the real reporting is getting done.
LindaR @ 93
It’s actually a reasonable topic for discussion……just not by HIM, drooling pervert that he is.
LindaR @ 93
That whole thing goes back to the fact that she was a “Goldwater girl” back in the 60’s. It was her deliberate choice of words to appeal to the Goldwater conservatives. JMHO
Christy Hardin Smith @ 37
Ellen Goodman is just jealous because y’all actually have cleavage. And a clue. She has neither.
Science nitpick: All normal humans have have X chromosomes. Women have two per cell, men have an X and a Y.
Just as an aside: if I am an invisible woman blogger, that last 20 pounds I’ve packed on must not be obvious, right?
Don’t answer that.
I half expect the ONLY media coverage to positively show the percentage of women both as attendees and panelists at YKos will include a billboard size photo of my backside.
“Look! A woman blogger!!” Yeesh.
Agree with Rayne #95. When I sang the praises of the blogs to someone a while back, I was told, “If I want to know what a 40-something white guy with a ponytail thinks, I’ll ask you.”
I’ve since cut the ponytail.
Doctor Robotnik @ 101
see, here we say nice things like “science nitpick.” My only quible with you is that non-normal humans like shrub, shooter, and Abu also probably have the requisite Xs and Ys. =:)
Jane, when FDL has the power to push a three-term incumbent Senator out of his party, the MSM stenographers will pretend you’re invisible.
Seeing that you and Christy and the other strong powerful women really exist – and thrive, and change opinions and media – is just too scary.
And for Ms. Goodman, just too bleak a reminder of the yawning gap between her potenial and what she chose not to do with it – for cocktail weenies.
You go, girls.
RonD @ 103
“almost cut my hair”….
LS @ 99
I didn’t think of that. I’m not for Hillary (I’m for Edwards), but when she said “I’m your girl” I liked it fine.
This anti “girl” person on Matthews’ show is a concern troll.
LS #106,
I think of it as “going underground”.
Jane,
As I don my tinfoil hat, can I suggest that Ellen is perhaps “projecting”?
As in the reverse pychology of “If You Build It, They Will Come.”
You know, “If we ignore them (Female Bloggers), they will go.”
In making a bit of lemonade out of Ellen and the rest of the MSM’s proclivity for lemons, you can rest assured that the reality-based folks in the blogosphere are not gender-blind even if the wingnutosphere and the MSM are.
LS @ 106
Uh, what’s this “hair” you’re talking about?
Another possible reason for misinformation (Just ficticious, I really see this more as a non-researched, really lazy article from Goodman more than deliberately lying):
Remember the addage attack them where they’re strong.
Imagine if Goodman reported on the balanced bloggers and reported that women hold the reigns to many progressive blogs? What would be the result? Maybe women who read the newspaper would realize that there are awesome sources of discussion to be had -online- instead of just with their husband, his friends, and of course, the everpresent super-right-wing neighbor? Why, that lady would hit the blogs in search of better discourse.
RonD @ 108
That can work.
dakine01, everyone here knows your hair got pushed out by an expanding brain.
RonD @ 113
Thanks but I think it just all migrated south…
dakine01 @ 110
“happened just the other day”
“let my freak flag fly”
CSNY
hmm….come to think of it, that yellow mopstick, ann coulter, doesn’t have much in the way of cleavage, does she?
Just sayin.
insulting to those of us with X chromosomes
Actually, both males and females have X chromosomes. Males are XY and females are XX.
I knew that college biology class would come in handy somehow!
Almost Cut My Hair
LS @ 115
Oh I remember the song quite well. I just don’t see the substance when I look in the mirror…
dakine01 @ 119
lol
oddmommy @ 116
Cleavage at the level of Jayne Mansfield could not render Ann Coulter stimulating. Her political viewpoint is too ugly no matter how much Pfiz*r stimulation one might ingest.
Uh, what’s this “hair” you’re talking about?
and bragging about having enough to just blithely cut it off? Stop it. You’re killing me here.
I *did* got to a barber last month, just for the hell of it. The girl was very nice about the whole thing, and took a lot time with me, while we both pretended that there was enough hair there to actually be concerned about.
She got a nice tip.
Wow, something unexpected. Gotta run-the best of all possible to all of you!
LS @ 106
55. Still got mine.
jayt @ 122
Not that it does me any good now, but there was a salon in Delmar, NY (outside Albany) that gave half priced hair cuts to bald men as we only have half the hair. Having lived all over the country, that is the only place I’ve found that did that.
What the doctor said.
Why would anyone expect this media, even the women in this media, to just report? Snark aside, they’re smarting from the shellacking they’re getting on the fact-front from the women here and elsewhere. They can’t be expected to recognize their own death-rattle.
Interesting how this topic, the invisibility of women, has morphed to bald jokes.
Wazzup with that?
I agree, this is a really weird meme. I was in Chicago, and women were very well-represented both at that conference and in the larger blogosphere.
Now, if you want to talk about African-Americans, or Hispanics, there’s certainly an under-representation relative to the larger Democratic coalition. With women? I’m not so sure.
Mad Dogs @ 109
Oh, there is very much something to this.
Anecdote from YKos: On Saturday noon-ish, before the Presidential forum, the corporate media descended. The big fat cameras gamed the lobby area outside the ballroom, training on anybody with a laptop. At least one idiot member of the media held a microphone to one of our ilk and asked, “Are you a blog-ger?” with emphasis on the word blogger as if they’d never said it before and struggled with pronunciation. After interviewing one of our folks — a young woman blogger — the female reporter said, “You’re taking my job, you’re kicking my ass.” There was no way to dissuade her as she maintained this point.
Yeah.
“If I pretend they aren’t there, they’ll go away…”
pontificator @ 117
Actually that’s what the “s” on the end of the word means (plural), but if that construction is too challenging I’ll happily add the word “two.”
We aim to please.
Jane, Christy,
Dontcha know, you don’t exist. If you did exist, the reichwing would be forced to acknowledge yours and digby’s and emptywheel’s etc. existence. And that would be just horrible, wouldn’t it?
Please dear ladies, ignore the knuckledraggers and keep up your exceptional work. We who know you highly appreciate your work.
LindaR @ 127
Interesting how this topic, the invisibility of women, has morphed to bald jokes.
Wazzup with that?
oddmommy has claimed all the boob jokes.
edit: and, to men, women are never invisible.
Think about how being invisible gives you an advantage in counter-espionage.
now look here, you baldsters……just remember Yul Brynner. A sexier man never walked the surface of this earth.
(weeelll…..maybe the young Brando, in “Streetcar”…but it’s close…)
I sure wouldn’t want to have a glimpse of Tweety’s cleavage!!
LS @ 135
oh ICK!
LS @ 135
ouch! hairy teets for Tweety.
Entrenched belief is never altered by the facts.
My Mt. Dew just went sour in my mouth.
Ewww.
Pade @ 138
There is a large element of “truthiness” to many of the critiques of the progressive blogosphere.
People feel something to be true, and feel it strongly, so for them, it becomes “true.”
Pachacutec @ 140
Monsters under the bed.
OT
Sheldon Whitehouse destroying AbuG on C-Span 2 now.
LS @ 135
ewwwww….
brain bleach for the visual cortex, stat!
newtonusr @ 142
OT
Sheldon Whitehouse destroying AbuG on C-Span 2 now.
Thank you – I’ve had hearing-withdrawals all week.
Once you referenced the fact that goodman did not attend the gathering, the rest is a waste of yours and mines time!
She has (as they say) Issues!!!!!
“ddmommy has claimed all the boob jokes. “
My previous comments notwithstanding — some of which were facetious — to this geezer there is absolutely nothing sexier than intelligence, awareness, and the verbal skills to articulate the same and I believe those skills are exhibited here each day by the ladies of the lake. Most of them are too young, of course, but ultimately it really has nothing to do with looks or body. In my experience sexual attraction is in the mind and there’s definitely some sexy minds hangin’ here. Physical — not nearly as important.
oddmommy @ 80
Its one of Karl Rove’s techniques. Take your worst fault, and blame your enemies for having that fault. After all, if those noisy bloggers are a bunch of middle age white men, then its OK if Republicans are just a bunch of middle age white men, right?
Bob in HI
Hi y’all.
I am a girl blogger, a lot younger than most bloggers, and definitely not a white male!
I posted this morning about the forum/debate last night, and before that about Bush and Barry Bonds.
I so much appreciate the consolidation of truly up-to-date news and opinions here that I’ve decided to cancel my newspaper subscription and start sending the payment to FDL. Anyone want to join me?
StarCraft VO @ 149
We don’t get a paper newspaper.
Its one of Karl Rove’s techniques. Take your worst fault, and blame your enemies for having that fault. After all, if those noisy bloggers are a bunch of middle age white men, then its OK if Republicans are just a bunch of middle age white men, right?
Bob in HI
Daily Kos is no better than Nazis. They are Nazis. They are no better than the Ku Klux Klan. They are just like the Ku Klux Klan.
– Bill O’Goebbel
Elliott @ 83
Amen to that!
I’m assistant moderator on a list that used to draw lots of cranks in its pre-moderated days. Finally, a bunch of us banded together, converted the list to moderated status, came up with Guidelines that were publicly posted, and booted all the miscreants off the list. When some folks veered away from the guidelines after that, we’d give’em a warning, slap them in moderated status, and hold back any of their posts that didn’t meet the guidelines until they were cleaned up. We seldom have any more trouble, and our list membership actually grew once we imposed the standards.
So, yes, what goes on behind the curtains can look like sausage-making. Since I know what it can look like behind the curtain, I really do appreciate the moderators!!! (Aloha and kisses!!!)
Bob in HI
Authoritarianism.
They truly cannot see something that doesn’t fit their hierarchy.
John Johnson @ 84
Counterspin, a program on NPR, pinpointed last week one of the difficulties that promotes stenographers over real journalists: the business managers are cutting newsroom budgets. Recently, for example, the CBS Newsroom budget was cut by 60%! When you take a meat-axe like that to a newsroom staff, you have little time left for real journalism, and about all you can do is hire stenographers to copy press releases and re-issue it as “news”. And maybe if the business managers are minions of Rupert Murdoch, that is the intended result.
Bob in HI
I’m sure that there is some latent sexism ingrained inside my brain from spending my life in a sexist culture. Racsim too.
But as a not-always-angry-white male I don’t think I’ve ever dismissed an opinion because it came from someone of the other gender.
I have enjoyed reading Digby for some time, and still do, even though I only recently became aware of her gender. (Sexism alert: I wrongly assumed Digby was male)
I strongly disagree with Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, and Debra Saunders, but their gender does not affect my opinion in the slightest.
My all-time favorite columnist/pundit/blogger? Molly Ivins.(R.I.P)
I have always enjoyed reading Ellen Goodman’s columns, even before I knew she was Black/African -American. When I found out, nothing changed.
She is wrong on this issue. Blogging, especially lefty blogging, is the least sexist and racist, and most democratic phenomena that has ever existed.
Is it perfect? Hell no! But then again, what is?
Thank god–and goddess–that there are white men angry enough to write about it. The only real way to get published daily is online now. I am grateful for the progressive men who have helped create–and share–the blogosphere. If there’s a disparity (and I know that half the bloggers I read are female!), it’s because Goodman etc’s feminist revolution got vilified (and defeated)by the media, so women must still compete for men based on youth and beauty. It keeps (some of us) very busy, as does the ideology about mothers staying home.
Thank you Jane for taking on the false stereotypes that a disconnected liberal elder assumes must be true if she read it in the Washington Post.
This refusal to ’see’ women and their contribution is so 1st Century, donchaknow.
Thanks to Jane and the ladies of the lake for keepin’ on keepin’ on. It really matters. It may save our country. And soon I will probably give up reading anything else.
And I really really like the men here who like smart women. So here’s a shout out to the fellas at the lake. You guys are the best!
And there’s Lindsey Beyerstein too.
“this media”
Aiiieieieieieeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they are so full of shit. my 3 favorite blogs are firedoglake, atrios, & digby. 2 out of 3 are women.
white male from maine
Bob Scherer @ 160
I’m with you Bob, I also love NewsHounds. I tend to find that folks read what they find interesting, informative or skews to agreement with their views (I’m guilty of all three), and that gender, at least in my case, rarely plays a role.
I wrote a long response to this, Jane. I blew it away ’cause i’m so tired that I pusshed the wrong button. Never mind all the scholoraly stuff I tried to put in there. The upshot is that you and the rest of the women on this bog are much feared by the other side. This is not because you are women. This is because you are educated, articulate, and you have an audience. They’re afraid of you. Take it as a compliment. All of you, including the guys, are more educated than some of the MSM (leaving out Froomkin, Thomas, and a few others) know your subject and are perfectly capable of explaining it, and you should be highly flattered, not discouraged. That you’re being attacked by people who don’t want the truth out. Who do the field? Malkin the idiot, or Ann Coulter whose dress is always cut just a little too low. Who do we feield. Certainly not ugly women, or dorky looking guys, but by in large, we don’t publish pictures, and our commentators are EDUCATED! I don’t like Hillary. I would vote for her under protest. Having never met Christy, she and I have some deep differences of opinion, but I would vote for her in a New York minute Because of some of the stands she takes. The rest of your “women” are also highly educated. If we are going to come out of this period in history at all, we are going to come out of it largely because of the FDL Crew…among other bloggers. The MSM know how badly they’ve blown it. And they’re grabbing at straws. BTW the men who write here are no slouches either. I’d say more, but I’m sure your capable of defending yourself. The same goes for the other women who write blogs. And the same goes (and I hate to keep singleing her out, but I do read her) for Snarkcassandra. She is the next generation, and that is important, because she’s 15 now, but she’ll be 25 before you know it….her friend too, and they publish a pretty savy blog.
I have reduced myself to lurker, but that doesn’t mean I’m not out here. And you do a damned fine job. Better then the NYT and the WaPo.
RS
Really? and to think I’ve only been coming to the liberal blogosphere because I lurves the ladies.
I’m surprised you don’t get even more; this is a quality site (and thank you for that).
I spend most of my on-line time at DU — it was the first place I found and where I still consider “home” to be. It’s hard to pin down the gender make-up because so many people are only known by their screen names and gender isn’t always obvious. I’ve frequently thought someone was male and they turn out to be female and vice versa. My guess, however, is that it’s fairly evenly split between male and female.
DU is a wonderful, caring community, despite the many flame wars that erupt in the “General Discussion” forum. There are a number of excellent writers there whose posts really could be considered blogs. It’s a different environment than here or at DK, with a more varied population, I think, but I don’t know what I would have done without it after the 2004 election when I first found it. I’ve made many friends there, both online and in person.
SharonRB @ 165
DU rocks, absolutely. But it is, as you note, harder to pin down in terms of gender.