Sarcastic all day, yes, but always up for a potential Zed if not a single digit. Now, back to lurkin’

What’s wrong with cutting taxes again?

Why am I not the least bit surprised?

welfare for the rich.

Ah yes. Dems thik it’s all about the “domestic agenda”? Well, I guess Shrub is going to agree with them on that.

Problem is Shrub’s domestic agenda, is well….

Leave no corporate tax cut behind.

In this Class War, the Rich are winning.

And the hate is swelling among the have-nots.

When the run on tar and pitchforks begins, you’ll know what time it is.

Thanks for posting the clip of groundhog day. It does seem like a never ending nightmare with this bunch of thugs in control. God I pray for the day when these rats are gone.

Phule @ 7

In this Class War, the Rich are winning.

And the hate is swelling among the have-nots.

When the run on tar and pitchforks begins, you’ll know what time it is.

If you really believe that, try some missionary work in Africa some time.

Jake D. @ 2

What’s wrong with cutting taxes again?

Yay! A tax cutting troll.

Of course, cut taxes, spend yourself into a hole and tank the economy!

Nothing wrong with that when you plan on parachuting into Paraguay as a retirement plan.

-GSD

does shrub have any connection to reality? any at all? or does he just make everything up…

who cuts taxes in the middle of a war?

I’m going to become a corporation of one. I could sure use a tax cut!

OldCoastie @ 9

does shrub have any connection to reality? any at all? or does he just make everything up…

who cuts taxes in the middle of a war?

neocons

steeelthing @ 8

Thanks for posting the clip of groundhog day. It does seem like a never ending nightmare with this bunch of thugs in control. God I pray for the day when these rats are gone.

Speaking of Groundhog Day.

The early word is out about the Crocker and Petreaeus Show coming in September.

Four very important words.

A little more time.

-GSD

GSD:

Is that where Reagan parachuted?! Oh, that’s right, he retired to Bel Air, and 8 short years later there was a federal budget SURPLUS!!!

Madness. More madness.

OldCoastie @ 10

who cuts taxes in the middle of a war?

People who expect the war to last a long, long, long time…

GSD @ 13

steeelthing @ 8

Thanks for posting the clip of groundhog day. It does seem like a never ending nightmare with this bunch of thugs in control. God I pray for the day when these rats are gone.

Speaking of Groundhog Day.

The early word is out about the Crocker and Petreaeus Show coming in September.

Four very important words.

A little more time.

-GSD

“We have always been at war with Oceania Iraqiranistan.”

Isn’t the issue of raising the debt ceiling coming up right after the recess?

Seems to me that stacking up another tax cut against the debt ceiling issue ought to be helpful in drowning this bad idea in the bathtub.

PS – Has each of you written to your Senators & Congress Critters about FISA? I just finished both a message on Mikulski’s site and a postcard to her.

What’s wrong with cutting taxes again?

Everything.

1. It cuts revenues that pay for stuff like…I dunno…BRIDGES? And Food Inspectors and all those other wonderful things we count on in life.

2. They are future tax HIKES in disguise. What is borrowed, must be payed back.

3. Spending more then you collect and then cutting what you collect while increasing spending = Darwin award waiting to happen

And no increase in the gasoline tax says Bush to pay for all the bad bridges in this country. Actually there has been monumental tax cuts under this nit wit prez. Fighting two wars without raising revenue, in sense amounts to huge tax cuts. And this turkey has an MBA? Outsourcing, NAFTA, CAFTA, stomping on EPA etc. were supposed to make this nation more competitive.

1.DOW plunged 387.18
2.BNP Paribas Suspends 3 Funds Hit By subprime woes
3. U.S. subprime-mortgage meltdown is spreading prompted the European Central Bank to loan $130.2 billion in emergency funds to European banks in order to keep interest rates steady.
4. The Fed, in an effort to get the funds rate back down and meet the surge in demand for cash, twice entered the market Thursday to inject cash. It lent $12 billion through a 14-day “repo,” the name for an operation that adds reserves to the banking system and alleviates upward pressure on rates, and an additional $12 billion through an overnight repo.
5. The Fed earlier this week acknowledged that credit-market turmoil is darkening the economic outlook. “Financial markets have been volatile in recent weeks, credit conditions have become tighter for some households and businesses…
http://online.wsj.com/article/….._whatsnews

Conditions are ripening for an economic Tsunami

OldCoastie @ 10

does shrub have any connection to reality? any at all? or does he just make everything up…

who cuts taxes in the middle of a war?

Someone who plans to defect to China for a comfortable retirement.

GSD @ 13

Why am I so not surprised?

For what we’ve spent on Irak already, we could have funded healthcare for everyone, infrastructure repairs, and a good start on renewable and clean energy. And the rest of the world wouldn’t be mad at us.

This is a cute move. Clusterfuck knows that his tax cut will never get through congress- but he’s hopin that corporate donors will get pissed when dems block it and then pony up to goopers campaing war chests- least that’s how it looks to me.

He’s forcing dems to do something that they may not want to do.

More tax cuts to make the hemmorraging of services to the middle class even worse. Yippee. Bush said today he would veto any transportation tax increase to fix bridges too. Cratering the American infrastructure is a Bush specialty. Only another moron could vote Republican ever again.

I’m hopeful there’s a pony in those tax cuts for the oil companies. They must feel particularly neglected lately.

That whole presser was bizarre, but more tax cuts? That surprised even me.

I wrote this downstairs but it’s much more appropriate here and democrats can take the lead on “tax cuts” if they frame the debate the I am framing it;

tax breaks CAN actually result in moreg government renenue and here’s how the falacy that they are ALWAYS good for the eoonomy began;

you actually CAN cut taxes if you want to improve A SECTOR of the economy

you target the tax cuts to THAT SECTOR

this is NOT a “tax return” it is a “tax investment”

those taxes MUST be returned WITH DIVIDENDS back from whence they came in order for that incentive to have provided positive return

for instance, if we give a tax credit to alternative fuel technology, that incentive will cause THAT industry to grow and return the investment at some future date

however the reagan administration and now this one forgets that these “incentives” MUST be targeted toward the industry that is struggling

NOT toward industry that thrives

you DON’T give incentives to the oil industry when it is thriving and when you want to encourage OTHER fuel sources to develope

Is the house of cards starting to crumble?

mc @ 12

I’m going to become a corporation of one. I could sure use a tax cut!

I knew a guy who incorporated himself so he could get business discounts at various places (phone, cable, etc).

Some speculation that Bush will bundle tax cuts with mortgage bail-out. No money goes out of his greedy little fist unless the rich get theirs, right?

Lower taxes now will help devalue the dollar and very possibly cause interest rates to rise. Since we are in a growing debt higher intrest rates will only sink us into debt more. In a sense Bush is arguing for tax cuts now in return for much higher taxes in the future.
Which he of course expects a responsible center democrat president like Hilary to pay for like a chump by taxing the middleclass and protecting the drug companies who give her money.
Debt has to be paid off wether by the corporations or the middleclass, I prefer the corporations pay. We have to draw the line somewhere on taxes or else we have to start replacing spineless democrats who care more for corporations than voters.

SanderO @ 30

Is the house of cards starting to crumble?

the house of cards has been crumling since clarke went public with what this president was informed about attacking Iraq

but they go forward with the maniacal plan from the pnac never the less

SanderO @ 28

Is the house of cards starting to crumble?

All the kings horses and all the kings men, in the media are working double time to keep this joint from falling into a black hole before the elections.

They won’t be able to do it. They have created themselves out of their own reality.

-GSD

Oooh! Tax Cut! Shiny! Shiny! Shiny!

Jane Hamsher @ 29

Some speculation that Bush will bundle tax cuts with mortgage bail-out. No money goes out of his greedy little fist unless the rich get theirs, right?

Do you mean bailing out the lenders, not the lendees?

The way “tax cuts” are discussed has always seemed wrong to me. It is true that Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, but they are not some faceless entity. Bush cut taxes for himself, his family, and his friends…even Cheney. It was a selfish act, pure and simple. Yet, he gets off free in the discussion because it’s said that it’s for “the wealthy”.

Bush tax cuts are myth. The Bush tax cuts have increased the average American’s tax burden, while decreasing taxes for the wealthy. You have to earn at least half a million dollars a year to benefit from Bushco tax cuts. Most taxpayers are paying much more now than they did under Clinton.

SanderO @ 29

Is the house of cards starting to crumble?

No, the house had crumbled and what we’re watching is the foundations being sucked into the bowels of the Earth by a vengeful G.0.D. known as Basic Math.

TexBetsy @ 3

Why am I not the least bit surprised?

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again now: I long for the good old days when I could be simultaneously shocked and appalled.

Jake D. @ 14

GSD:

Is that where Reagan parachuted?! Oh, that’s right, he retired to Bel Air, and 8 short years later there was a federal budget SURPLUS!!!

Uh, Jake, I’m not going to take the time to google this but iirc, after his initial round of tax giveaways, Reagan raised taxes in some form every other year thereafter. And the budget surplus didn’t show up until well into the Clinton years.

But I know that facts have never stood in the way of a good Republic talking point.

hackworth @ 39

Bush tax cuts are myth. The Bush tax cuts have increased the average American’s tax burden, while decreasing taxes for the wealthy. You have to earn at least half a million dollars a year to benefit from Bushco tax cuts. Most taxpayers are paying much more now than they did under Clinton.

Exactly. Bush cut taxes for the Bush family, not for working families.

Elliott @ 26

That whole presser was bizarre, but more tax cuts? That surprised even me.

It’s the hand of Rove. Anyone believe this is a policy announcement? Not a chance. It’s a political move designed to move the (perpetual) Presidential campaign back to domestic policy. Iraq is a loser for the Republican candidates.

Tax cuts!? Yippee, everybody wins! Jobs, jobs, jobs! Corporations investing in America!

Watch for repealing the “death” tax next. Then, kill the capital gains tax.

Groundhog Day, indeed.

Badwater @ 35

The way “tax cuts” are discussed has always seemed wrong to me. It is true that Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, but they are not some faceless entity. Bush cut taxes for himself, his family, and his friends…even Cheney. It was a selfish act, pure and simple. Yet, he gets off free in the discussion because it’s said that it’s for “the wealthy”.

They are his constituency, the haves and the have-mores — and the have-some-even-mores.

Jake D. @ 2

What’s wrong with cutting taxes again?

Jake – and I’m just asking – is there anything you don’t mind your grandchildren paying for?
Got yacht?

Rick DeVille @ 36

Oooh! Tax Cut! Shiny! Shiny! Shiny!

funny you should bring up shiny objects

gasoline prices have gone down quite a bit in just a few days, this usually happens because bush is expecting bad news

when things go relatively well for the adminsitration the prices of gas goes up.

so since the price is going down I expect some kind of bombshell information to be released some time soon

they were probably warned about a story soon to be released in the nyt or wapo

Jane Hamsher @ 32

Some speculation that Bush will bundle tax cuts with mortgage bail-out. No money goes out of his greedy little fist unless the rich get theirs, right?

Oh my god Jane… if this is true it surely has to be absolute proof that bushco is comprised of people with not heart and no soul despite what poppy said.

fu**ing pigs

Elliott @ 44

Badwater @ 35

The way “tax cuts” are discussed has always seemed wrong to me. It is true that Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, but they are not some faceless entity. Bush cut taxes for himself, his family, and his friends…even Cheney. It was a selfish act, pure and simple. Yet, he gets off free in the discussion because it’s said that it’s for “the wealthy”.

They are his constituency, the haves and the have-mores — and the have-some-even-mores.

A.K.A. the bunch of jerks first up against the wall when the revolution comes.

OT, but of interest: Ghadafi’s son is confirming that the Tripoli Six – the nurses and physician who were imprisoned wrongly for years – were indeed tortured to extract confessions of intentionally transmitting HIV to patients. By the WH definition, they were NOT tortured. Food for thought….

dakine01 @ 42

Uh, Jake, I’m not going to take the time to google this but iirc, after his initial round of tax giveaways, Reagan raised taxes in some form every other year thereafter. And the budget surplus didn’t show up until well into the Clinton years.

But I know that facts have never stood in the way of a good Republic talking point.

Oh, come now, this one doesn’t even look like fun to feed.

Elliott @ 37

Jane Hamsher @ 29

Some speculation that Bush will bundle tax cuts with mortgage bail-out. No money goes out of his greedy little fist unless the rich get theirs, right?

Do you mean bailing out the lenders, not the lendees?

Only lendees who are two-time Bush Pioneers, no doubt. Targeted tax cuts.

If the president (and I use the term loosely) wants US corporations to be more competitive, he just might want to consider changing some trade laws…and enforcing others.
Sheesh. What a maroon.

Elliott @ 45

Badwater @ 35

The way “tax cuts” are discussed has always seemed wrong to me. It is true that Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, but they are not some faceless entity. Bush cut taxes for himself, his family, and his friends…even Cheney. It was a selfish act, pure and simple. Yet, he gets off free in the discussion because it’s said that it’s for “the wealthy”.

They are his constituency, the haves and the have-mores — and the have-some-even-mores.

That’s true, so I hope no one is still pretending that Bush is just a regular guy from Texas who would be glad to have a beer with anyone.

I just heard about this from a friend….Johnson & Johnson is suing the Red Cross for using the Red Cross emblem.

http://www.redcross.org/pressr…..07,00.html

Interesting that only a couple days ago the following story came out….Was J&J just waiting to do this, knowing the Red Cross was going to make a statement about torture? Interesting timing.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2…..-a07.shtml

That’s true, so I hope no one is still pretending that Bush is just a regular guy from Texas who would be glad to have a beer with anyone.

Untrue. Bush will gladly have a beer with anyone, provided that the other guy pays for it. And as long as Halliburton is the supplier.

wonder if tweety will still be all a’flutter this afternoon after the a.m. presser…?

Not to mention that cutting taxes while increasing spending (as Bush and the Republican Congress did every year) isn’t a tax cut, it’s a tax deferral. He’s just spending money that will have to be collected later, when someone else is president and he and his pals can try to pillory them for being more responsible than him.

mc @ 44

Elliott @ 26

That whole presser was bizarre, but more tax cuts? That surprised even me.

It’s the hand of Rove. Anyone believe this is a policy announcement? Not a chance. It’s a political move designed to move the (perpetual) Presidential campaign back to domestic policy. Iraq is a loser for the Republican candidates.

Tax cuts!? Yippee, everybody wins! Jobs, jobs, jobs! Corporations investing in America!

Watch for repealing the “death” tax next. Then, kill the capital gains tax.

Groundhog Day, indeed.

Is there any subject Rove can change to at this point that comes out well for the Republicans? At this point, we can call him the past master of shitting where he sleeps.

rwcole @ 25

This is a cute move. Clusterfuck knows that his tax cut will never get through congress- but he’s hopin that corporate donors will get pissed when dems block it and then pony up to goopers campaing war chests- least that’s how it looks to me.

He’s forcing dems to do something that they may not want to do.

bingo

EvilDrPuma @ 50

dakine01 @ 42

Uh, Jake, I’m not going to take the time to google this but iirc, after his initial round of tax giveaways, Reagan raised taxes in some form every other year thereafter. And the budget surplus didn’t show up until well into the Clinton years.

But I know that facts have never stood in the way of a good Republic talking point.

Oh, come now, this one doesn’t even look like fun to feed.

I know I know. But sometimes I just have to call BS on the Ray-guns cr*p.

“But we should defend ourselves. You just remember that when people are insecure, they’d rather have somebody who’s strong and wrong than somebody who’s weak and right.” Bill Clinton, 12/2002

http://www.dlc.org/print.cfm?contentid=251085

looseheadprop @ 60

rwcole @ 25

This is a cute move. Clusterfuck knows that his tax cut will never get through congress- but he’s hopin that corporate donors will get pissed when dems block it and then pony up to goopers campaing war chests- least that’s how it looks to me.

He’s forcing dems to do something that they may not want to do.

bingo

the counter strategy would be to let the goopers have the cut if they can find the revenue that pays for it

then tell the president he can give any cuts he wants if he replaces the revenue, then tell him unless he finds the revenue we are not going to let him spend our kids money

binget

Jane Hamsher @ 32

Some speculation that Bush will bundle tax cuts with mortgage bail-out. No money goes out of his greedy little fist unless the rich get theirs, right?

At his press conference, “Despite mounting concern over the downturn in the housing market, he dismissed proposals advanced by prominent Democrats to grant government-chartered Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac more freedom to buy mortgages and mortgage-backed securities. And he ruled out any taxpayer bailout of lenders threatened by the subprime home-loan crisis….Some analysts argue that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac already have the ability to pump more money into the troubled mortgage markets. Instead of buying more mortgages, they could package them into securities for sale to other investors, and the backing of the government-chartered firms could give investors the confidence to buy the securities, analysts say.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

Hell, no way do we want to bail out the elitist Hedge Funds. They took the risk of investing in the subprime mortgage market. And why should the taxpayers bailout bad risk. We don’t want to be stuck with the wrong end of the stick as happened with the S&L scandal of Bush Sr., and the taxpayers footed the bill for that scam. Let the rich eat their own.

Perris @ 47: Yes, I’ve been keeping an eye on the price of gas, as it’s an indicator that seems constant in its predictability. My “shiny” remark was a jab at yet another distraction thrown into the mix.

well, tweety still has his stiffie…

Redshift @ 56

Not to mention that cutting taxes while increasing spending (as Bush and the Republican Congress did every year) isn’t a tax cut, it’s a tax deferral. He’s just spending money that will have to be collected later, when someone else is president and he and his pals can try to pillory them for being more responsible than him.

ding!

This document is one to file away in bookmarks for when the Bandar Bush/Saudi money scandal breaks, if it breaks:

http://www.911readingroom.org/…..cle_id=104

OldCoastie @ 64

well, tweety still has his stiffie…

If tweety doesn’t fawn over Bush’s tax cuts today, I will be very surprised.

RockPaperScizzors @ 61

Jane Hamsher @ 32

Some speculation that Bush will bundle tax cuts with mortgage bail-out. No money goes out of his greedy little fist unless the rich get theirs, right?

At his press conference, “Despite mounting concern over the downturn in the housing market, he dismissed proposals advanced by prominent Democrats to grant government-chartered Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac more freedom to buy mortgages and mortgage-backed securities. And he ruled out any taxpayer bailout of lenders threatened by the subprime home-loan crisis….Some analysts argue that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac already have the ability to pump more money into the troubled mortgage markets. Instead of buying more mortgages, they could package them into securities for sale to other investors, and the backing of the government-chartered firms could give investors the confidence to buy the securities, analysts say.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

Hell, no way do we want to bail out the elitist Hedge Funds. They took the risk of investing in the subprime mortgage market. And why should the taxpayers bailout bad risk. We don’t want to be stuck with the wrong end of the stick as happened with the S&L scandal of Bush Sr., and the taxpayers footed the bill for that scam. Let the rich eat their own.

haven’t hedge funds been bailed out before?
Hedge funds emit as rank a smell as there was coming from the S&Ls, and who paid for that party?

Health care takes up 17% of the GNP. Since corporate America pays some of its workers’ health care then they have to make up that lose with those yummy Bush tax cuts. Wieners.

LS @ 65

This document is one to file away in bookmarks for when the Bandar Bush/Saudi money scandal breaks, if it breaks:

http://www.911readingroom.org/…..cle_id=104

thanks LS, it just has to break someday, doncha know

newtonusr @ 46

Jake D. @ 2

What’s wrong with cutting taxes again?

Jake – and I’m just asking – is there anything you don’t mind your grandchildren paying for?
Got yacht?

Well, I do own a smallish, 42 foot boat ; )

Hooray, yet another way to roll the BlueDog Democrats.

marymccurnin @ 71

Health care takes up 17% of the GNP. Since corporate America pays some of its workers’ health care then they have to make up that lose with those yummy Bush tax cuts. Wieners.

Most employees are actually paying the extra cost. If Bush wanted to help corps he should change health care and go to a single payer system.

Elliott @ 73

LS @ 65

This document is one to file away in bookmarks for when the Bandar Bush/Saudi money scandal breaks, if it breaks:

http://www.911readingroom.org/…..cle_id=104

thanks LS, it just has to break someday, doncha know

Kucinich will hold oversight hearings on financial issues related to 9/11, that he won’t reveal yet, probably sometime in September.

EvilDrPuma @ 51

dakine01 @ 42

Uh, Jake, I’m not going to take the time to google this but iirc, after his initial round of tax giveaways, Reagan raised taxes in some form every other year thereafter. And the budget surplus didn’t show up until well into the Clinton years.

But I know that facts have never stood in the way of a good Republic talking point.

Oh, come now, this one doesn’t even look like fun to feed.

No, he’s not. He used to be the resident troll at TPM Muckraker, and he’s pretty much just a talking-point machine. (However, his specialty was jumping into a new thread first and trying to derail the discussion before it got going, and I suspect with our zedsters, that wouldn’t be possible here.)

Jake D. @ 70

newtonusr @ 46

Jake – and I’m just asking – is there anything you don’t mind your grandchildren paying for?
Got yacht?

Well, I do own a smallish, 42 foot boat ; )

and it will grow like all good investments, so when your grandchildren grow up, they will have YACHT.

Our newly elected (Nov ‘06) Dem Gov Mike Beebe cut grocery sales taxes in half.. Was tough to notice do to rising costs overall, but greatly appreciated.

I wonder if this troll is the same Jake who got itself banned from TPMM.

Bush’s tax cuts for corporations were argued for by a WSJ editorial that Brad Delong dissects here, and Matt Yglesias further shreds here.

The Laffer curve is a mythical beast.

Redshift @ 77

No, he’s not. He used to be the resident troll at TPM Muckraker, and he’s pretty much just a talking-point machine. (However, his specialty was jumping into a new thread first and trying to derail the discussion before it got going, and I suspect with our zedsters, that wouldn’t be possible here.)

It certainly didn’t work out well for him in this thread.

This news is for Oklahoma kiddo
Gore Says He May Re-Enter Politics Again
…”I may re-enter politics at some point in the future because I’m only 59 years old,” Gore said. But more telling: “There is no single candidate that is putting forward a comprehensive argument about the environment or making climate change a priority,” he said.
Can this finally be a concrete sign that Gore’s taking the initial steps back into the political scene so as to set the stage for a surprise announcement early this Fall? Will we soon here Gore say something like: “Yes, it’s true. A couple of months ago, I stated that I might someday enter politics again but not the presidential race in ‘08. But I have now come to the conclusion that I can indeed make the biggest contribution to our great country, and have the greatest impact on the issues I hold near and dear to me–climate control and putting an end to the Iraq war–if I seek the highest job in the land.”
http://ostroyreport.blogspot.c…..itics.html

My perspective is that he won’t enter the prez race. see Fast Company. Al Gore’s $100 Million Makeover
http://www.fastcompany.com/mag…..-gore.html

Funny, McCafferty’s question, what do you think of when you see Maliki and Achmadinidinidinjahad holding hands…

I think of W and Prince Abdullalalalah..

Ain’t that Sweeeet!!

Eureka Springs @ 79

Our newly elected (Nov ‘06) Dem Gov Mike Beebe cut grocery sales taxes in half.. Was tough to notice do to rising costs overall, but greatly appreciated.

Nice idea. No sales tax on food in Iowa, though, so Culver doesn’t get that feather in his cap.

Eureka Springs @ 78

Our newly elected (Nov ‘06) Dem Gov Mike Beebe cut grocery sales taxes in half.. Was tough to notice do to rising costs overall, but greatly appreciated.

A lot of blue states have no sales tax on grocery items and limited tax on clothing items below a set price (iirc, MA had sales tax when the individual clothing item was more than $150 – other states set theirs lower but still…)

OT:

2 more bodies recovered in Minn. bridge collapse.

JPL @ 75

marymccurnin @ 71

Health care takes up 17% of the GNP. Since corporate America pays some of its workers’ health care then they have to make up that lose with those yummy Bush tax cuts. Wieners.

Most employees are actually paying the extra cost. If Bush wanted to help corps he should change health care and go to a single payer system.

True. Health care should not be paid by employers. Your physical well being should not be bound up with your employment. You are owned by your employer if you have a pre-existing condition or don’t have portable health insurance. And always remember-health care in this country is not for the sick.

LS @ 73

Elliott @ 73

thanks LS, it just has to break someday, doncha know

Kucinich will hold oversight hearings on financial issues related to 9/11, that he won’t reveal yet, probably sometime in September.

Well that’s good to hear, there are a whole lotta unanswered questions.

mc @ 87

OT:

2 more bodies recovered in Minn. bridge collapse.

Damn. Well, I suppose it’s better for their families that they be found than not, but still…damn.

I was thinking today that we ought to propose a 5% tax on capital gains, dividends and interest to fund the Social Security trust fund instead. Reducing our reliance on China buying our bonds might do a lot more for our national competitiveness.

Republicans tax work, We tax wealth.

I’m quite impressed with Elizabeth Kucinich.

marymccurnin @ 71

Health care takes up 17% of the GNP. Since corporate America pays some of its workers’ health care then they have to make up that lose with those yummy Bush tax cuts. Wieners.

This illustrates that a single-payer health care system would “make U.S. corporations . . . more competitive.” I’m in Seattle, where Boeing pays over $3,000.00 per year for each employee’s health care. Imagine what they could do against Airbus without that expense.

mc @ 84

OT:

2 more bodies recovered in Minn. bridge collapse.

R.I.P.

Elliott @ 95

mc @ 84

OT:

2 more bodies recovered in Minn. bridge collapse.

R.I.P.

That is so sad :{

mc @ 87

OT:

2 more bodies recovered in Minn. bridge collapse.

You know, this is not OT at all. What do I do with this fury?

Elliott @ 89

LS @ 73

Kucinich will hold oversight hearings on financial issues related to 9/11, that he won’t reveal yet, probably sometime in September.

Well that’s good to hear, there are a whole lotta unanswered questions.

I want to know when the oversight hearing on Katrina are going to start. Lieberman was going to . . . .oh wait. . .never mind.

marymccurnin @ 98

Elliott @ 89

Well that’s good to hear, there are a whole lotta unanswered questions.

I want to know when the oversight hearing on Katrina are going to start. Lieberman was going to . . . .oh wait. . .never mind.

Katrina who?

Boston1775 @ 96

mc @ 87

OT:

2 more bodies recovered in Minn. bridge collapse.

You know, this is not OT at all. What do I do with this fury?

Vote with it.

LS @ 98

marymccurnin @ 98

I want to know when the oversight hearing on Katrina are going to start. Lieberman was going to . . . .oh wait. . .never mind.

Katrina who?

Exactly.

marymccurnin @ 97

I want to know when the oversight hearing on Katrina are going to start. Lieberman was going to . . . .oh wait. . .never mind.

Cue the daily affirmation: “My contempt for Joe Lieberman will never subside.” Nor should it.

Elliott @ 70
haven’t hedge funds been bailed out before?
Hedge funds emit as rank a smell as there was coming from the S&Ls, and who paid for that party?

Investors in two Bear Stearns Cos. hedge funds took action against the company Wednesday for allegedly misleading them about the extent of the investment bank’s exposure to risky mortgage-backed securities, a lawyer for the plaintiffs said. The move comes as the two funds filed for bankruptcy protection, two weeks after the company told investors one was essentially worthless and the other had lost more than 90 percent of its value…..
Chapter 15 covers cross-border petitions and was used because the funds are technically registered in the Cayman Islands.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20075984/

No government bailout. The wealthy are feasting on each other.

Elliott @ 70

RockPaperScizzors @ 61

At his press conference, “Despite mounting concern over the downturn in the housing market, he dismissed proposals advanced by prominent Democrats to grant government-chartered Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac more freedom to buy mortgages and mortgage-backed securities. And he ruled out any taxpayer bailout of lenders threatened by the subprime home-loan crisis….Some analysts argue that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac already have the ability to pump more money into the troubled mortgage markets. Instead of buying more mortgages, they could package them into securities for sale to other investors, and the backing of the government-chartered firms could give investors the confidence to buy the securities, analysts say.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

Hell, no way do we want to bail out the elitist Hedge Funds. They took the risk of investing in the subprime mortgage market. And why should the taxpayers bailout bad risk. We don’t want to be stuck with the wrong end of the stick as happened with the S&L scandal of Bush Sr., and the taxpayers footed the bill for that scam. Let the rich eat their own.

haven’t hedge funds been bailed out before?
Hedge funds emit as rank a smell as there was coming from the S&Ls, and who paid for that party?

Here’s the thing. A lot of ARMs are due for resetting over the next several months and when that happens there’ll be a lot of pressure on Congress for some kind of foreclosure relief.

So Decider will tie his corporate tax goodie to that.

EvilDrPuma @ 100

Boston1775 @ 96

You know, this is not OT at all. What do I do with this fury?

Vote with it.

Well, tomorrow’s another day…you’ll be even more pissed off, so maybe today’s a better day; or maybe something good will happen.

marymccurnin @ 100

LS @ 98

Katrina who?

Exactly.

At a recent press conference, Laura forgot entirely, calling Katrina, Corina. Not bothering her beautiful mind apparently.

N=1 @ 106

marymccurnin @ 100

Exactly.

At a recent press conference, Laura forgot entirely, calling Katrina, Corina. Not bothering her beautiful mind apparently.

She has done that several times…even shortly after the devastation of a major American city…rolls eyes..clueless.

Boston1775 @ 96

mc @ 87

OT:

2 more bodies recovered in Minn. bridge collapse.

You know, this is not OT at all. What do I do with this fury?

You know, I didn’t want to politicize this, but taxes do pay for bridges and their upkeep.

And I also am not optimistic about the Utah miners. Our taxes pay for mine inspections and safety standards.

My prayers go out to the families affected by these tragedies.

N=1 @ 105

At a recent press conference, Laura forgot entirely, calling Katrina, Corina. Not bothering her beautiful mind apparently.

Laura Bush? The Xan*x Dowager is holding press conferences? Why bother?

LS @ 106

N=1 @ 106

At a recent press conference, Laura forgot entirely, calling Katrina, Corina. Not bothering her beautiful mind apparently.

She has done that several times…even shortly after the devastation of a major American city…rolls eyes..clueless.

Too many ludes.

Chris Matthews is talking about pardoning Libby. I’m not kidding.

Now he says to the kid: Point to something Gonzales did wrong.

And the woman asked the kid how old he is, how naive he is that he doesn’t understand that Washington is run by patronage.

And he looks at the two of them and asks them if they think it’s right.

LS @ 101

EvilDrPuma @ 100

Vote with it.

Well, tomorrow’s another Groundhog day…you’ll be even more pissed off, so maybe today’s a better day; or maybe something good will happen.

fixed your typo, LS

Hi gang,I’m back.
A week with no toobz, man was I jonesin’.
Much to catch up on.

It’s Ezra Klein! And he just said that he hopes Democrats raise taxes and the other two laugh.

Elliott @ 111

LS @ 101

Well, tomorrow’s another Groundhog day…you’ll be even more pissed off, so maybe today’s a better day; or maybe something good will happen.

fixed your typo, LS

707

Elliott @ 92

mc @ 84

OT:

2 more bodies recovered in Minn. bridge collapse.

R.I.P.

Deferred death counts are a part of Republican fuzzy math. Katrina victims, Troops and now Republican caused bridge collapse fatalities.

Boston1775 @ 112

It’s Ezra Klein! And he just said that he hopes Democrats raise taxes and the other two laugh.

Just one more reason not to pay for cable.

Anything for papa CEO

Bustednuckles @ 112

Hi gang,I’m back.
A week with no toobz, man was I jonesin’.
Much to catch up on.

Welcome home.

Boston1775 @ 113

It’s Ezra Klein! And he just said that he hopes Democrats raise taxes and the other two laugh.

Ezra Klein is an idiot, particularly interested in being loved by TradMed.

We need something big…the Cunningham/MZM/bribess/Saudi/Bandar Bush/Bush/Cheney/oil/9-11/afghanistan drug money/BSSI/BAE…you know…that thing. It is close to coming out.

EvilDrPuma @ 114

Boston1775 @ 112

It’s Ezra Klein! And he just said that he hopes Democrats raise taxes and the other two laugh.

Just one more reason not to pay for cable.

What’s so funny about bankrupting the USA? Why do pundit assclowns hate America?

TeddySanFran @ 118

Boston1775 @ 113

It’s Ezra Klein! And he just said that he hopes Democrats raise taxes and the other two laugh.

Ezra Klein is an idiot, particularly interested in being loved by TradMed.

Couldn’t he at least aspire to useful idiocy?

AP – Need a down-payment for your home? Seed money to start a business? The Army wants to help — if you’re willing to join up.

LS @ 119

We need something big…the Cunningham/MZM/bribess/Saudi/Bandar Bush/Bush/Cheney/oil/9-11/afghanistan drug money/BSSI/BAE…you know…that thing. It is close to coming out.

Are you sure or are you teasing us? I swear to god I can’t take anymore Bush fraud or corruption. That last bolt holding up the roof bean must give way soon. You know it is rusty cause they can’t do anything for the long run.

Can anyone help me flesh out the idea of sending nickles to congress to support the increase in the gas tax to rebuild bridges?

The idea is that rebuilding our roads & bridges SHOULD create local jobs, improve the local economy and benefit everyone…. head stuffed with cold I caught at Yearlykos…

Is this a stupid idea?

Teddy I really liked your get out of jail cards, we should print them up and send them to Congress when they try to give Immunity to the Big Telecos

Red or white? I’m pouring.

Why do republicans hate America?

Gawd. I’m looking at the roof of the interior of the mine shaft. The only reinforcement is those panels you get at farm equipment stores..4X6..squares on maybe 10-20 foot lengths. That is what it looks like to me.

“Wow, it’s been — what? — two nanoseconds since BushCheneyCo did something nice for corporations! Wouldn’t want corporations to feel overlooked.”

Ah, but he’s only got until next November to get it all done! There is truly no rest for those who a gameplan. Look for more like this in the very near future.

Has Treasury Sec’y Henry Paulson had anything to say today about ANYthing that’s happened in re the financial world, such as still more tax cuts or maybe Dow dives? just to name two

btw I thought I knew a fair amount about the guy, but I had NO idea he’s a Christian Scientist. Revealing.

We ought to take Thomas Jefferson’s advice and have a geometric tax on wealth. I would add that there should be no tax at all on anyone at or below the median, and the tax should go up geometrically with every increment above the median.

realworld @ 126

Why do republicans hate America?

Because people live there on top of their exploitable natural resources. Pretty much the same reason they hate anything.

marymccurnin @ 124

LS @ 119

We need something big…the Cunningham/MZM/bribess/Saudi/Bandar Bush/Bush/Cheney/oil/9-11/afghanistan drug money/BSSI/BAE…you know…that thing. It is close to coming out.

Are you sure or are you teasing us? I swear to god I can’t take anymore Bush fraud or corruption. That last bolt holding up the roof bean must give way soon. You know it is rusty cause they can’t do anything for the long run.

If you google it, you will find that the Bandar Bush BAE Saudi bribe scandal is currently being investigated in the U.S. The investigation was apparently shut down in Britain. I had the link, but my bookmarks disappeared when my computer crashed last week. It is all tied together. Did you read my link at #65? That is part of it.

Hedley Lamarr @ 102
Here’s the thing. A lot of ARMs are due for resetting over the next several months and when that happens there’ll be a lot of pressure on Congress for some kind of foreclosure relief.

So Decider will tie his corporate tax goodie to that.

The problem with the ARMS is that: “One of the reasons for the worsening situation, according to Zandi, is that just as the number of subprime ARMs being underwritten was reaching a high, the quality of loans was hitting new lows.
“There were increasingly poor quality loans made starting in the spring of 2005,” he said, “with the poorest of all made during the fall of 2006…..Lenders approved many borrowers who had little chance of being able to afford the payments two and three years out. They approved applications without any proof of income or assets (”liar loans”) and others that barely could make the low teaser-rate payments. Some borrowers chose interest-only ARMs, which left the principal of the loan untouched.”
http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/0…../index.htm

It’s just like the junk bond fiasco where regulations were minimized or ignored. With the ARMS, people who were high risk, got mortgages that weren’t qualified. But the strict controls and regulations were removed.

Papa and Georgie are really scam artists, papa was responsible for the S&L scam and Georgie has the subprime lender market scam.

sofistic @ 130

We ought to take Thomas Jefferson’s advice and have a geometric tax on wealth. I would add that there should be no tax at all on anyone at or below the median, and the tax should go up geometrically with every increment above the median.

This is why the whole slavery business really sticks in my craw. Jefferson tried so hard to be cool….

sofistic @ 131

We ought to take Thomas Jefferson’s advice and have a geometric tax on wealth. I would add that there should be no tax at all on anyone at or below the median, and the tax should go up geometrically with every increment above the median.

jefferson deplored the idea of inherited wealth..as far as he is concerned everyone has to earn their keep, no free rides, you contribute to the country…period

mauimom @ 19

PS – Has each of you written to your Senators & Congress Critters about FISA? I just finished both a message on Mikulski’s site and a postcard to her.

excellent!

i’m putting my comments (on the house time line and analysis) together into a dkos diary… (at the request of another commenter). haven’t written a diary in over a year so i don’t expect it to be seen by many people, but at least it will be all together in one link.

LS @ 133

marymccurnin @ 124

Are you sure or are you teasing us? I swear to god I can’t take anymore Bush fraud or corruption. That last bolt holding up the roof bean must give way soon. You know it is rusty cause they can’t do anything for the long run.

If you google it, you will find that the Bandar Bush BAE Saudi bribe scandal is currently being investigated in the U.S. The investigation was apparently shut down in Britain. I had the link, but my bookmarks disappeared when my computer crashed last week. It is all tied together. Did you read my link at #65? That is part of it.

Also, go here:

http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;1529067

The argument goes that if you raise corporate tax rates, corporations simply pass their tax increase along to customers in the form of higher prices.

So be prepared for this argument: Lowering corporate tax rates will lead to lower prices for consumers.

RockPaperScizzors @ 130

Hedley Lamarr @ 102
Here’s the thing. A lot of ARMs are due for resetting over the next several months and when that happens there’ll be a lot of pressure on Congress for some kind of foreclosure relief.

So Decider will tie his corporate tax goodie to that.

The problem with the ARMS is that: “One of the reasons for the worsening situation, according to Zandi, is that just as the number of subprime ARMs being underwritten was reaching a high, the quality of loans was hitting new lows.
“There were increasingly poor quality loans made starting in the spring of 2005,” he said, “with the poorest of all made during the fall of 2006…..Lenders approved many borrowers who had little chance of being able to afford the payments two and three years out. They approved applications without any proof of income or assets (”liar loans”) and others that barely could make the low teaser-rate payments. Some borrowers chose interest-only ARMs, which left the principal of the loan untouched.”
http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/0…../index.htm

It’s just like the junk bond fiasco where regulations were minimized or ignored. With the ARMS, people who were high risk, got mortgages that weren’t qualified. But the strict controls and regulations were removed.

Papa and Georgie are really scam artists, papa was responsible for the S&L scam and Georgie has the subprime lender market scam.

Leavenworth for the the lot of them, and that especially includes Neil and Marvin.

Every company with over 10,000 employees should be broken up into smaller individual companies.

selise @ 133

mauimom @ 19

PS – Has each of you written to your Senators & Congress Critters about FISA? I just finished both a message on Mikulski’s site and a postcard to her.

excellent!

i’m putting my comments (on the house time line and analysis) together into a dkos diary… (at the request of another commenter). haven’t written a diary in over a year so i don’t expect it to be seen by many people, but at least it will be all together in one link.

that’s great! Thanks so much for all the work you’ve put into it.

Jonathan @ 138

The argument goes that if you raise corporate tax rates, corporations simply pass their tax increase along to customers in the form of higher prices.

So be prepared for this argument: Lowering corporate tax rates will lead to lower prices for consumers.

The only thing that would lead to lower prices for consumers would be for corporations to concentrate on maximizing profit by providing quality goods and services as the lowest possible cost. But that’s not what they’re doing, is it? They’re maximizing executive bonus packages by any means necessary, and any tax cut goes straight into those same fat cat pockets. Mark my words, for I am speaking prophecy.

selise @ 137

mauimom @ 19

PS – Has each of you written to your Senators & Congress Critters about FISA? I just finished both a message on Mikulski’s site and a postcard to her.

excellent!

i’m putting my comments (on the house time line and analysis) together into a dkos diary… (at the request of another commenter). haven’t written a diary in over a year so i don’t expect it to be seen by many people, but at least it will be all together in one link.

Please let us know when it goes up at DK; we Orangiers will do our best to rec it up. It’s great work and deserves to be seen widely.

Elliott @ 130

Has Treasury Sec’y Henry Paulson had anything to say today about ANYthing that’s happened in re the financial world, such as still more tax cuts or maybe Dow dives? just to name two

btw I thought I knew a fair amount about the guy, but I had NO idea he’s a Christian Scientist. Revealing.

No medicine for the economy.

-GSD

Oklahoma kiddo @ 121

AP – Need a down-payment for your home? Seed money to start a business? The Army wants to help — if you’re willing to join up.

Need more poor folks to be cannon fodder for GDub’s GWOT.

Leavenworth for the the lot of them, and that especially includes Neil and Marvin.

And OldBar, for spawning and rearing all the sociopaths!

marymccurnin @ 125

LS @ 119

We need something big…the Cunningham/MZM/bribess/Saudi/Bandar Bush/Bush/Cheney/oil/9-11/afghanistan drug money/BSSI/BAE…you know…that thing. It is close to coming out.

Are you sure or are you teasing us? I swear to god I can’t take anymore Bush fraud or corruption. That last bolt holding up the roof bean must give way soon. You know it is rusty cause they can’t do anything for the long run.

Go here too:

http://www.chris-floyd.com/Art…..pons_Deal/

It’s a Sicilian chardonnay. Enjoy.

GSD @ 141

Elliott @ 130

Has Treasury Sec’y Henry Paulson had anything to say today about ANYthing that’s happened in re the financial world, such as still more tax cuts or maybe Dow dives? just to name two

btw I thought I knew a fair amount about the guy, but I had NO idea he’s a Christian Scientist. Revealing.

No medicine for the economy.

-GSD

wow, you’re right, “No medicine for the economy.”

Jonathan @ 139

That one should be easy to counter, with oil company profits as the best example: record profits and record prices. Banks are another example.

Elliott @ 151

GSD @ 141

No medicine for the economy.

-GSD

wow, you’re right, “No medicine for the economy.”

All they were talking about today on the money shows, was that nobody knows what’s going on.

perris @ 136

sofistic @ 131

We ought to take Thomas Jefferson’s advice and have a geometric tax on wealth. I would add that there should be no tax at all on anyone at or below the median, and the tax should go up geometrically with every increment above the median.

jefferson deplored the idea of inherited wealth..as far as he is concerned everyone has to earn their keep, no free rides, you contribute to the country…period

Kinda ironic, don’t you think, since Jefferson’s main source of income came from his wife, Martha’s inheritance of slaves and their home at Monticello from her father?

sofistic @ 141

Every company with over 10,000 employees should be broken up into smaller individual companies.

You socialists are funny.

TeddySanFran @ 143

Leavenworth for the the lot of them, and that especially includes Neil and Marvin.

And OldBar, for spawning and rearing all the sociopaths!

Oh yes, she cannot be left behind

RockPaperScizzors @ 134

Hedley Lamarr @ 102
Here’s the thing. A lot of ARMs are due for resetting over the next several months and when that happens there’ll be a lot of pressure on Congress for some kind of foreclosure relief.

So Decider will tie his corporate tax goodie to that.

The problem with the ARMS is that: “One of the reasons for the worsening situation, according to Zandi, is that just as the number of subprime ARMs being underwritten was reaching a high, the quality of loans was hitting new lows.
“There were increasingly poor quality loans made starting in the spring of 2005,” he said, “with the poorest of all made during the fall of 2006…..Lenders approved many borrowers who had little chance of being able to afford the payments two and three years out. They approved applications without any proof of income or assets (”liar loans”) and others that barely could make the low teaser-rate payments. Some borrowers chose interest-only ARMs, which left the principal of the loan untouched.”
http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/0…../index.htm

It’s just like the junk bond fiasco where regulations were minimized or ignored. With the ARMS, people who were high risk, got mortgages that weren’t qualified. But the strict controls and regulations were removed.

Papa and Georgie are really scam artists, papa was responsible for the S&L scam and Georgie has the subprime lender market scam.

Tell me why this is a scam.

LS @ 148

marymccurnin @ 125

Are you sure or are you teasing us? I swear to god I can’t take anymore Bush fraud or corruption. That last bolt holding up the roof bean must give way soon. You know it is rusty cause they can’t do anything for the long run.

Go here too:

http://www.chris-floyd.com/Art…..pons_Deal/

that’s a great link, we need to go viral here

P J Evans @ 151

Jonathan @ 139

That one should be easy to counter, with oil company profits as the best example: record profits and record prices. Banks are another example.

WalMart is already lowering prices. Guess it’s not the corporations that need the tax cut, it’s the consumers.

Elliott @ 152

TeddySanFran @ 143

And OldBar, for spawning and rearing all the sociopaths!

Oh yes, she cannot be left behind

…until God takes His turn!

LS @ 148

Elliott @ 151

wow, you’re right, “No medicine for the economy.”

All they were talking about today on the money shows, was that nobody knows what’s going on.

Well that eases my anxiety, how about yours?

perris @ 156

LS @ 148

Go here too:

http://www.chris-floyd.com/Art…..pons_Deal/

that’s a great link, we need to go viral here

Here’s something else I came across in my travels today. It is very weird, but there are photographs of actual documents. Follow the money…it’s all connected:

http://www.madcowprod.com/06122007.html

selise @ 137

mauimom @ 19

PS – Has each of you written to your Senators & Congress Critters about FISA? I just finished both a message on Mikulski’s site and a postcard to her.

excellent!

i’m putting my comments (on the house time line and analysis) together into a dkos diary… (at the request of another commenter). haven’t written a diary in over a year so i don’t expect it to be seen by many people, but at least it will be all together in one link.

Go selise! I’m so glad you’re pursuing this.

LS @ 128

Gawd. I’m looking at the roof of the interior of the mine shaft. The only reinforcement is those panels you get at farm equipment stores..4X6..squares on maybe 10-20 foot lengths. That is what it looks like to me.

Some additional info on the mine collapse

Pulling Pillars, Throwing Punches
by Devilstower
Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:02:05 PM PDT
……..
……..

On that last issue, Murray’s faux outrage is as contrived as Alberto Gonzales’ misdirection over wire traps. What the press calls retreat mining is known in the industry as “pulling pillars.” When underground mining with continuous miners (in this case, a “miner” is a machine) 50% or more of the coal is often left in the ground. The resulting mine looks like a map of city blocks with rectangular “pillars” of coal helping to hold up the roof (along with roof bolting in the area where the coal has been removed). When mining is complete in an area, operators often attempt to up their recovery percentage by cutting into these pillars as they “retreat” from the working face. This will compromise roof stability, but usually only over the long term, and coal recovered can shoot from 50% to as much as 80%.

Indications are that the area of mine that collapsed was at least slated for pulling pillars, so the idea that there was no “retreat mining” going on may be as imaginary as the series of “quakes” that Murray now blames for the mine’s collapse.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/9/13314/71068

I am sure Murray’s calculus was, “What’s a few Mexicans compared to 20% increase in coal yield.”

Corporate murder should be prosecuted as a capital crime.

Elliott @ 159

LS @ 148

All they were talking about today on the money shows, was that nobody knows what’s going on.

Well that eases my anxiety, how about yours?

It was astounding actually. We are certainly in uncertain times. They’ve been predicting this for a long time. The market is so crazy, that it could bounce up 400 points tomorrow.

This Bush mob is going to squeeze every little last drop of blood out of us turnips

WalMart is already lowering prices. Guess it’s not the corporations that need the tax cut, it’s the consumers.

Per Bill Maher: Sales are down at Walmart but up at Tiffany’s suggesting that the rich are spending more while the rest of us can’t even afford Walmart prices.

selise @ 136

i’m putting my comments (on the house time line and analysis) together into a dkos diary… (at the request of another commenter). haven’t written a diary in over a year so i don’t expect it to be seen by many people, but at least it will be all together in one link.

Do it on Agonist, Selise!

Steve-AR @ 162

LS @ 128

Gawd. I’m looking at the roof of the interior of the mine shaft. The only reinforcement is those panels you get at farm equipment stores..4X6..squares on maybe 10-20 foot lengths. That is what it looks like to me.

Some additional info on the mine collapse

Pulling Pillars, Throwing Punches
by Devilstower
Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:02:05 PM PDT
……..
……..

On that last issue, Murray’s faux outrage is as contrived as Alberto Gonzales’ misdirection over wire traps. What the press calls retreat mining is known in the industry as “pulling pillars.” When underground mining with continuous miners (in this case, a “miner” is a machine) 50% or more of the coal is often left in the ground. The resulting mine looks like a map of city blocks with rectangular “pillars” of coal helping to hold up the roof (along with roof bolting in the area where the coal has been removed). When mining is complete in an area, operators often attempt to up their recovery percentage by cutting into these pillars as they “retreat” from the working face. This will compromise roof stability, but usually only over the long term, and coal recovered can shoot from 50% to as much as 80%.

Indications are that the area of mine that collapsed was at least slated for pulling pillars, so the idea that there was no “retreat mining” going on may be as imaginary as the series of “quakes” that Murray now blames for the mine’s collapse.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/9/13314/71068

I am sure Murray’s calculus was, “What’s a few Mexicans compared to 20% increase in coal yield.”

Corporate murder should be prosecuted as a capital crime.

Thanks for the info. Shocking and infuriating.

Matthews is on FIRE!!!!

Yikes!

Corporations were going to create jobs with their tax cut savings and invest in America.

They did create jobs – after downsizing here they created jobs in other countries with slave labor.

John Kerry said he was going to close the loophole that allowed corporations to move American jobs overseas.

He looked French, though. And he ordered Swiss cheese on his Philly Cheese Steak.

(The dork did miss the FISA vote, however and I haven’t heard his excuse.)

TeddySanFran @ 144

Please let us know when it goes up at DK; we Orangiers will do our best to rec it up.

thanks! probably most everyone here has already seen it… but a comment or two couldn’t hurt.

here it is.

Jake D. @ 152

Kinda ironic, don’t you think, since Jefferson’s main source of income came from his wife, Martha’s inheritance of slaves and their home at Monticello from her father?

Ah. We should pledge undying allegiance to Alexander Hamilton. Had that great idea about “President for life”. Why Tweety’s growing wood just thinking about it!

Wal-Mart and corporate welfare..

What a 200 Employee Wal-Mart Store Costs You

Item Cost to Taxpayers
Low Income Tax Credits/Deductions $125,000
Child Health Programs (Federal Share) $108,000
Title 1 $100,000
Housing Assistance $42,000
Free/Reduced School Lunches $36,000
Low Income Energy Assistance $9,750
Annual Total $420,750

http://education-portal.com/ar…..hools.html

hackworth @ 170

Corporations were going to create jobs with their tax cut savings and invest in America.

They did create jobs – after downsizing here they created jobs in other countries with slave labor.

John Kerry said he was going to close the loophole that allowed corporations to move American jobs overseas.

He looked French, though. And he ordered Swiss cheese on his Philly Cheese Steak.

(The dork did miss the FISA vote, however and I haven’t heard his excuse.)

I haven’t heard the excuse of the six Dems and six Gops who were absent, but I bet once they heard Feinstein had had her chat with Mike McConnell, they knew the bill had sixty votes. No need to hang around and get tainted by voting either way once it reached sixty.

LS @ 159

perris @ 156

that’s a great link, we need to go viral here

Here’s something else I came across in my travels today. It is very weird, but there are photographs of actual documents. Follow the money…it’s all connected:

http://www.madcowprod.com/06122007.html

is this what’s presipitating the lower prices in gas?

perhaps

GordonM @ 167

selise @ 136

i’m putting my comments (on the house time line and analysis) together into a dkos diary… (at the request of another commenter). haven’t written a diary in over a year so i don’t expect it to be seen by many people, but at least it will be all together in one link.

Do it on Agonist, Selise!

selise: you’ve got a bidding war on your hands!

LS @ 147

Go here too:

http://www.chris-floyd.com/Art…..pons_Deal/

Thanks LS. :)

selise @ 165

TeddySanFran @ 144

Please let us know when it goes up at DK; we Orangiers will do our best to rec it up.

thanks! probably most everyone here has already seen it… but a comment or two couldn’t hurt.

here it is.

Thanks!
(I posted it to my FB page so I can find it.)

TeddySanFran @ 174

hackworth @ 170

Corporations were going to create jobs with their tax cut savings and invest in America.

They did create jobs – after downsizing here they created jobs in other countries with slave labor.

John Kerry said he was going to close the loophole that allowed corporations to move American jobs overseas.

He looked French, though. And he ordered Swiss cheese on his Philly Cheese Steak.

(The dork did miss the FISA vote, however and I haven’t heard his excuse.)

I haven’t heard the excuse of the six Dems and six Gops who were absent, but I bet once they heard Feinstein had had her chat with Mike McConnell, they knew the bill had sixty votes. No need to hang around and get tainted by voting either way once it reached sixty.

One Dem had a valid excuse for not being there to vote and only one.

GordonM @ 169

Ah. We should pledge undying allegiance to Alexander Hamilton. Had that great idea about “President for life”. Why Tweety’s growing wood just thinking about it!

Kindly don’t feed the troll.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 164

This Bush mob is going to squeeze every little last drop of blood out of us turnips

And then they will go live in Chili or Dubai. We better start planning now.

Any interest rate over 10% should be illegal under usury laws.

selise @ 171

TeddySanFran @ 144

Please let us know when it goes up at DK; we Orangiers will do our best to rec it up.

thanks! probably most everyone here has already seen it… but a comment or two couldn’t hurt.

here it is.

Beautiful, selise ~ I think I’ll have to read it all *again.*

I luv the title!

sofistic @ 176

Any interest rate over 10% should be illegal under usury laws.

To our great misfortune, not in BushCo World.

sofistic @ 179

Any interest rate over 10% should be illegal under usury laws.

Sounds like a plan.

EvilDrPuma @ 180

GordonM @ 169

Ah. We should pledge undying allegiance to Alexander Hamilton. Had that great idea about “President for life”. Why Tweety’s growing wood just thinking about it!

Kindly don’t feed the troll.

EDP,
You’re absolutely correct but this guy is such a true believer and kool-aid drinker, it’s almost like being invited to one of Darth’s canned bird hunts it’s so easy.

selise @ 171

TeddySanFran @ 144

Please let us know when it goes up at DK; we Orangiers will do our best to rec it up.

thanks! probably most everyone here has already seen it… but a comment or two couldn’t hurt.

here it is.

Commented and rec’d

I’m confused. Which is the tax and spend party?

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

Tucker is having quite the conversation with Neil Giuliano, from GLAAD. Tucker just supported gay marriage.

katymine @ 189

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

what??

Credit card interest rates charged now used to be called ‘loan sharking’. Whatever the traffic will bear.

GordonM @ 172

Jake D. @ 152

Kinda ironic, don’t you think, since Jefferson’s main source of income came from his wife, Martha’s inheritance of slaves and their home at Monticello from her father?

Ah. We should pledge undying allegiance to Alexander Hamilton. Had that great idea about “President for life”. Why Tweety’s growing wood just thinking about it!

I never said anything about Hamilton — I certainly don’t want a President for life — I was simply pointing out Jefferson’s obvious hypocrisy on inheritance.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 185

I’m confused. Which is the tax and spend party?

“Tax and spend” is spin and it always was. All any government ever has done is tax and spend. The real questions are tax whom, how much, and spend on what.

I think that, since 1994, we’ve gotten a pretty good idea what the Republican answers are.

katymine @ 189

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

link

katymine @ 189

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

Please, no.

EvilDrPuma @ 180

GordonM @ 169

Ah. We should pledge undying allegiance to Alexander Hamilton. Had that great idea about “President for life”. Why Tweety’s growing wood just thinking about it!

Kindly don’t feed the troll.

Someone ELSE brought up Jefferson and inheritance — was that a “troll”?

OldCoastie @ 191

katymine @ 189

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

what??

Concrete pillars collapse on bridge being built in Mesa

12:17 PM Mountain Standard Time on Thursday, August 9, 2007

By The Associated Press

MESA — Parts of a freeway bridge being built for an extension of the Loop 202 in east Mesa collapsed today, but there were no injuries.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/st…..9563c5f.ht

Boston1775 @ 195

katymine @ 189

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

Please, no.

Under construction, no injuries. See TSF’s link @ 3:04PM

Boston1775 @ 190

Tucker is having quite the conversation with Neil Giuliano, from GLAAD. Tucker just supported gay marriage.

didya get the feeling that Neil would have reached thru the tv to give *ucker a little poke in the nose if he could have? how does *ucker get away with being so very rude to his guests?

Boston1775 @ 192

katymine @ 189

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

Please, no.

Sadly, yes. According to TeddySanFran’s link, it was a partial collapse with no injuries. That should not, of course, make it a subject of lesser concern that it happened within a week of Minneapolis.

In the interview with Harmon by Wolf B, this was said:

BLITZER: Do you believe, Congresswoman Harman, do you believe that the Saudis are helping or hurting the U.S. mission in Iraq right now?

HARMAN: I think the record is extremely mixed and Saudi Arabia continues to fund the terror movement in the Middle East. They continue to try to get — wreak havoc inside with the civil war in Iraq. And I also think that the reason we have this huge Al Qaida menace had a lot to do with Saudi Arabia exporting that movement out of its country.

BLITZER: You agree, Congressman Blunt?

BLUNT: I agree to some extent. I think that there is — particularly with the statement that this is a mixed bag and we’re going to have to look carefully at what the Saudis are doing, some of which is less apparent and more real.

But there’s no question that the Saudis have looked the wrong way — the other way for a long time on this issue of terror and have encouraged or at least allowed support of it to be encouraged in their country through false charities and other things. They’ve been challenged on that. They’ve made significant progress, but I’m not sure that Congress is convinced that that progress has been all they could do.

HARMAN: I agree.

I think FISA is looking at the Saudis; which leads back to BAE/slush fund/9-11/Bandar Bush/etc….this is the Motherlode.

Sorry about no link, just heard it on Nova M radio and was looking for the link… thanks Teddy…

The 202 has had bridge trouble for years…. Another section from the 101 to the 202 collapsed two years ago.

And Bush says earlier today no increase in taxes to pay for bridge problems. Go after the oil companies. Nationalize them perhaps.

katymine @ 189

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

There have been bridges collapsing ever since man starting building bridges:

http://www.ketchum.org/bridgecollapse.html

Oklahoma kiddo @ 199

And Bush says earlier today no increase in taxes to pay for bridge problems. Go after the oil companies. Nationalize them perhaps.

Buck Feorge Gush.

solai @ 155

Tell me why this is a scam.

Banks have reserve requirements. This whole thing is a way around it. The bank issues a risky loan, then promptly sells it. Since they no longer own it, they can do it again tomorrow. The risky mortgages get bundled up and sold to Hedge Funds. The bank is not at (immediate) risk, but there’s virtually no difference to the economy as a whole. When it falls apart, a whole bunch of speculative money disappears, taking some real money with it.

Hello, friends.

BigMitch @ 202

Hello, friends.

Greetings and felicitations!

Extremely off-thread (and likely to be EPU’d)

Mark Schmidtt has an extremly interesting piece up over at TPM Cafe “An Alternative to Impeachment”

What do you ‘Pups think about it?

Ground Hog Day is the most hopeful movie I ever saw. Like Andie M too. But alas, it’s just a movie.

Sometimes I think Bush is using Shakespeare’s Richard II as a playbook.

Here is the report card on American infrastructure
American society of civil engineers report card on US infrastructure

When I was in Greece, the TeeVee in Athens had several economical reports on Europe’s concerns over the sub-prime lending and the impact on their markets. They actually have NOT canceled the news over there!

Then it would follow with commercials for investing funds that are quite proud that they DO NOT invest in the American Mortgage market.

anne @ 212

Sometimes I think Bush is using Shakespeare’s Richard II as a playbook.

That would assume he’s ever read the play.

EvilDrPuma @ 193

Oklahoma kiddo @ 185

I’m confused. Which is the tax and spend party?

“Tax and spend” is spin and it always was. All any government ever has done is tax and spend. The real questions are tax whom, how much, and spend on what.

I think that, since 1994, we’ve gotten a pretty good idea what the Republican answers are.

Actually, tax and spend sounds to me to be a whole lot more ethical than tax and steal. Steal? Yes, that’s what I call borrowing from people who haven’t been born yet, especially, if you have no intention of paying back.

OT: Per LA Times 8/8/07 p. A7:

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown asked the United states to free five British residents from the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
{…]
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said any transfers would depend on assurances that the detainees would not be mistreated.
[…]

Emphasis mine.

GordonM @ 206

solai @ 155

Tell me why this is a scam.

Banks have reserve requirements. This whole thing is a way around it. The bank issues a risky loan, then promptly sells it. Since they no longer own it, they can do it again tomorrow. The risky mortgages get bundled up and sold to Hedge Funds. The bank is not at (immediate) risk, but there’s virtually no difference to the economy as a whole. When it falls apart, a whole bunch of speculative money disappears, taking some real money with it.

And when the hedge fund buys the loans, it is with 80-90% on margin, that is they borrow all but a small part of the price of the loan, hoping to make it up in higher interest payments . But if the loans default, the whole house of cards collapses.

Aloha, Ya’ll! I found this highly amusing:
Faux Noise begging the Dems to come on!!!

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..neil_c.php

Scarecrow @ 210

Ground Hog Day is the most hopeful movie I ever saw. Like Andie M too. But alas, it’s just a movie.

Funny thing today. I was looking at the TV listings on the cable channel. As it scrolled past “O.C.” i saw the blurb on this episode.

(Repeat) “Ground Hog Day” ….

Struck me as funny …

OT..oops..
Boston Globe
…..
But behind Obama’s campaign rhetoric about taking on special interests lies a more complicated truth. A Globe review of Obama’s campaign finance records shows that he collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from lobbyists and PACs as a state legislator in Illinois, a US senator, and a presidential aspirant.

In Obama’s eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns — $296,000 of $461,000 — came from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/art….._obamas_ri

Jake D. @ 205

katymine @ 189

Bridge just collapsed in Phoenix!

There have been bridges collapsing ever since man starting building bridges:

http://www.ketchum.org/bridgecollapse.html

Yet, this guy that will turn around and tell you in the same breath that the United States is the most technologically advanced, most superior and stupendous nation on earth without socialized medicine.

One would think that if that were the case, our bridges wouldn’t collapse so much.

Steve-AR @ 173

Wal-Mart and corporate welfare..

What a 200 Employee Wal-Mart Store Costs You

Item Cost to Taxpayers
Low Income Tax Credits/Deductions $125,000
Child Health Programs (Federal Share) $108,000
Title 1 $100,000
Housing Assistance $42,000
Free/Reduced School Lunches $36,000
Low Income Energy Assistance $9,750
Annual Total $420,750

http://education-portal.com/ar…..hools.html

Thanks for this information. I just wrote about Asst Sec HHS Agwunobi leaping from being a partisan hack and going directly to Wal-mart as a lobbyist “health and wellness” director. You can’t tell where the politics stops and the science and real information begins. It’s all been intentionally conflated and the real data hidden.

Just in case, I haven’t made my opinion perfectly clear: Tucker Carlson is the douchiest douche bag I have ever seen.

SeamusD @ 215

GordonM @ 206

Banks have reserve requirements. This whole thing is a way around it. The bank issues a risky loan, then promptly sells it. Since they no longer own it, they can do it again tomorrow. The risky mortgages get bundled up and sold to Hedge Funds. The bank is not at (immediate) risk, but there’s virtually no difference to the economy as a whole. When it falls apart, a whole bunch of speculative money disappears, taking some real money with it.

And when the hedge fund buys the loans, it is with 80-90% on margin, that is they borrow all but a small part of the price of the loan, hoping to make it up in higher interest payments . But if the loans default, the whole house of cards collapses.

And for some time, there’s has been a systematic roll back of the post 1929 Crash laws and regulations designed to protect the little guy.

It’s gonna be a hard landing.

njprogressive @ 204

Extremely off-thread (and likely to be EPU’d)

Mark Schmidtt has an extremly interesting piece up over at TPM Cafe “An Alternative to Impeachment”

What do you ‘Pups think about it?

Something similar has occurred to me, but Schmidtt puts his idea of a Truth Commission forth in much better detail and with far more historical context than I ever tried to apply. Frankly, I think it would be necessary for any post-Bush reconstruction, with or without impeachment. I do think Schmidtt neglects one important point, though: we MUST elect an administration next year that is firmly committed to Constitutional governance and is firmly and comprehensively opposed in both principle and specifics to the Bush administration’s strategies of authoritarian rule. The next president must utterly reject Bushism at every level, or we are truly and finally screwed as a democratic republic. Without that, any Truth Commission can only be a dog and pony show, vilifying the previous eight years without genuinely addressing it.

RockPaperScizzors @ 64

Jane Hamsher @ 32

Some speculation that Bush will bundle tax cuts with mortgage bail-out. No money goes out of his greedy little fist unless the rich get theirs, right?

Bush…bundle…

You’ve got to be kidding, right? Georgie Boy doesn’t know which end is up. How’s he going to handle an economic crisis.

No, they’re just hoping he will do something half bright, so not so many people will be harmed by this (perhaps small) crisis.

At his press conference, “Despite mounting concern over the downturn in the housing market, he dismissed proposals advanced by prominent Democrats to grant government-chartered Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac more freedom to buy mortgages and mortgage-backed securities. And he ruled out any taxpayer bailout of lenders threatened by the subprime home-loan crisis.

In other words, Bush is as sociopathic in economics as in war. He isn’t going to help anybody. Instead, he’s just gonna go on vacation.

Did he smirk?

Some analysts argue that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac already have the ability to pump more money into the troubled mortgage markets. Instead of buying more mortgages, they could package them into securities for sale to other investors, and the backing of the government-chartered firms could give investors the confidence to buy the securities, analysts say.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

Hell, no way do we want to bail out the elitist Hedge Funds. They took the risk of investing in the subprime mortgage market. And why should the taxpayers bailout bad risk. We don’t want to be stuck with the wrong end of the stick as happened with the S&L scandal of Bush Sr., and the taxpayers footed the bill for that scam. Let the rich eat their own.

It’s not that we ‘want’ to help the Rich. It’s that if we don’t there can be reverberations which harm even more people. It’s best to work on helping everyone instead of just the little guys.

Besides, using the government to solve a problem is anathema to these Reich-wing Republicans.

hackworth @ 216

Yet, this guy that will turn around and tell you in the same breath that the United States is the most technologically advanced, most superior and stupendous nation on earth without socialized medicine.

One would think that if that were the case, our bridges wouldn’t collapse so much.

Please don’t feed the troll.

Scarecrow @ 209

Ground Hog Day is the most hopeful movie I ever saw. Like Andie M too. But alas, it’s just a movie.

Oh Scarecrow, I love Groundhog Day too, and, well, you’re a very special Scarecrow… *kisses him on the cheek*

Steve-AR @ 220

OT..oops..
Boston Globe
…..
But behind Obama’s campaign rhetoric about taking on special interests lies a more complicated truth. A Globe review of Obama’s campaign finance records shows that he collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from lobbyists and PACs as a state legislator in Illinois, a US senator, and a presidential aspirant.

In Obama’s eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns — $296,000 of $461,000 — came from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/art….._obamas_ri

That’s why I enjoyed Edwards’ remark; “You won’t find my picture on the cover of ‘Fortune’!” ;-)

sofistic @ 211

Here is the report card on American infrastructure
American society of civil engineers report card on US infrastructure

This is scary and far more to the point than a random commenter making a blanket statement that bridges have always collapsed. Bridges do collapse, but coming from the field of Quality Assurance, I would say many potential collapses are and should be preventable with proper maintenance. And yes, money spent to assure the maintenance is done correctly.

Which the US has not done enough of in the last twenty years because it is not a glamorous investment for the photo-op style pols.

BigMitch @ 218

Just in case, I haven’t made my opinion perfectly clear: Tucker Carlson is the douchiest douche bag I have ever seen.

From the bits and pieces I’ve seen of his performance, I can only visualize the man with slime oozing onto his bow tie.

wigwam @ 217

OT: Per LA Times 8/8/07 p. A7:

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown asked the United states to free five British residents from the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
{…]
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said any transfers would depend on assurances that the detainees would not be mistreated.
[…]

Emphasis mine.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

SeamusD @ 218

GordonM @ 206

Banks have reserve requirements. This whole thing is a way around it. The bank issues a risky loan, then promptly sells it. Since they no longer own it, they can do it again tomorrow. The risky mortgages get bundled up and sold to Hedge Funds. The bank is not at (immediate) risk, but there’s virtually no difference to the economy as a whole. When it falls apart, a whole bunch of speculative money disappears, taking some real money with it.

And when the hedge fund buys the loans, it is with 80-90% on margin, that is they borrow all but a small part of the price of the loan, hoping to make it up in higher interest payments . But if the loans default, the whole house of cards collapses.

Okay, but is there someone who’s making a fortune in this mess?

Re daKine at 231 –

Saying that bridges have always collapsed, is like saying that the poor will always be with us.

It is supposed to be a challenge to care for the poor (or the infra-structure) not an invitation to say, “Cool! I guess I don’t have to concern myself about it.”

fdl reader @ 227

wigwam @ 217

OT: Per LA Times 8/8/07 p. A7:
Emphasis mine.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Chutzpah: (1) that quality possessed by a man who murders both his parents and then pleads for mercy because he’s an orphan; (2) the Bush administration (see picture).

solai @ 234

SeamusD @ 218

And when the hedge fund buys the loans, it is with 80-90% on margin, that is they borrow all but a small part of the price of the loan, hoping to make it up in higher interest payments . But if the loans default, the whole house of cards collapses.

Okay, but is there someone who’s making a fortune in this mess?

The hedge fund manager who makes money based on the value of the fund, not on its performance.

dakine01 @ 231

sofistic @ 211

Here is the report card on American infrastructure
American society of civil engineers report card on US infrastructure

This is scary and far more to the point than a random commenter making a blanket statement that bridges have always collapsed. Bridges do collapse, but coming from the field of Quality Assurance, I would say many potential collapses are and should be preventable with proper maintenance. And yes, money spent to assure the maintenance is done correctly.

Which the US has not done enough of in the last twenty years because it is not a glamorous investment for the photo-op style pols.

The action plan on the site is excellent, too. Thanks for pointing out this reference. Got it on my blogroll.

GordonM @ 206

solai @ 155

Tell me why this is a scam.

Banks have reserve requirements. This whole thing is a way around it. The bank issues a risky loan, then promptly sells it. Since they no longer own it, they can do it again tomorrow. The risky mortgages get bundled up and sold to Hedge Funds. The bank is not at (immediate) risk, but there’s virtually no difference to the economy as a whole. When it falls apart, a whole bunch of speculative money disappears, taking some real money with it.

Additionally, the borrowers whose home is in jeopardy as they creep towards default get no relief, since their loan has been rebundled and collateralized into tiny slices to many, many investor entities, with whom they have no relationship and who are unable to “cure” their loan.

Kind of like having lotsa Mr Potters owning your mortgage instead of one kindly George Bailey you can sit down with and work out more manageable terms.

Not to forgive people who didn’t read their loan paperwork, but I’ve been to lotsa open houses in the past two years featuring these odd interest-only or increasing-rate loans. When asked about the eventual monthly payments, realtors look at me like I’m crazy to even inquire. I guess the idea was to borrow against ever-increasing home equity to make the ever-increasing payments.

hackworth @ 222

Jake D. @ 205

There have been bridges collapsing ever since man starting building bridges:

http://www.ketchum.org/bridgecollapse.html

Yet, this guy that will turn around and tell you in the same breath that the United States is the most technologically advanced, most superior and stupendous nation on earth without socialized medicine.

One would think that if that were the case, our bridges wouldn’t collapse so much.

And, consider the same government you want to take over our health-care gave us FEMA after Katrina ; )

magtured @ 93

marymccurnin @ 71

Health care takes up 17% of the GNP. Since corporate America pays some of its workers’ health care then they have to make up that lose with those yummy Bush tax cuts. Wieners.

This illustrates that a single-payer health care system would “make U.S. corporations . . . more competitive.” I’m in Seattle, where Boeing pays over $3,000.00 per year for each employee’s health care. Imagine what they could do against Airbus without that expense.

Maybe there is some kind of trade-off possible – one where the government takes on the health care responsibility for those workers (former and current) and in return the car company does something really special for all of us, like produce a very cheap hybrid which runs like the wind on very little fuel. Possible? Sensible?

If the government offers that as an option to many corporations and has a program which is in competition (to some extent) with private firms, then that introduction of competition would be significant.

I wonder how the US compares with other industrialized countries on the incidences of collapsed bridges. (I wouldn’t count Iraq.)

BigMitch @ 232

Re daKine at 231 –

Saying that bridges have always collapsed, is like saying that the poor will always be with us.

It is supposed to be a challenge to care for the poor (or the infra-structure) not an invitation to say, “Cool! I guess I don’t have to concern myself about it.”

DINGDING!!

What’s going to happen when millions of Americans end up in foreclosure in the next year?

The hedge fund stuff is kinda like the Enron stuff. The brokers make money moving the investments around until the investments collapse and the investor loses the value they had ‘on paper.’ Meanwhile the fees have been paid at each turn and the brokers have piles of real money and have made a killin.’

BigMitch @ 235

Re daKine at 231 –

Saying that bridges have always collapsed, is like saying that the poor will always be with us.

It is supposed to be a challenge to care for the poor (or the infra-structure) not an invitation to say, “Cool! I guess I don’t have to concern myself about it.”

Who said we weren’t concerned?! I think Bush had the right idea in forcing the House Committee charged with federal spending on bridges to stop giving priority to earmark projects for their own districts.

Selise’s diary is great.

You guys still hanging here? Why not join us upstairs?

US savings rates look a little better than last year, but are still in the toilet.
US savings rates compared to other countries

LS @ 244

What’s going to happen when millions of Americans end up in foreclosure in the next year?

Corporations will get tax cuts!

(Try to keep up, please) *g*

FYI, New post upstairs, right this way

solai @ 155

Tell me why this is a scam.

(AP) The Bush administration and top financial regulators pledged increased vigilance over hedge funds Thursday but stopped short of proposing any new regulations to control the trillion-dollar industry….Unlike mutual funds, which generally hold stocks and bonds, hedge funds can invest in anything from commodities to real estate. Some funds even buy whole companies, while others buy and sell stocks like day traders — but with billions of dollars at stake.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..4572.shtml

The two bankrupt (Hedge) funds — the Bear Stearns High-Grade Structured Credit Strategies Master Fund Ltd. and the Bear Stearns High-Grad Structured Credit Strategies Enhanced Leverage Master Fund Ltd. — bet heavily on subprime loans.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20075984/

The gist of it is: many Hedge funds were heavily invested in the subprime loans. These loans (ARMS and HELOC’s) that were handed out to high risk, poor collateral, no money down lendees. These loans were offered as Securitization bundles through the stock market as wise and relatively safe investments. The Hedge fund manager sales pitch was that the real estate market was great investment, property values quadrupled, interest rates low, blah, blah, blah. money maker. Also, China and European investors bought the lie and invested into US markets based on the belief that everything was hunkydory and the government was regulating the lending market and Hedge funds. Wrong. The wealthy, hedge fund investors were taken for a ride, but unfortunately pensions may have invested as well.
BTW Schumer and Clinton are trying to protect the Hedge funds from paying their fair share in taxes. “Partnerships that aren’t publicly traded generally pay no corporate income tax; income flows through to the partners, who are taxed on it at whatever rate applies, often the 15% rate on capital gains.”
http://www.nysun.com/article/56810

Now the ARMS are resetting and mortgages are doubling and the mortgagees barely were making the interest payments and no principle. The removal or lack of regulations and controls, just like the junk bond scam, are being replayed.

You guys still hanging here? Why not join us upstairs?

Asked about Obama’s speech and his comments about nuclear weapons, New York Sen. Clinton chided Obama for addressing hypotheticals.

“Presidents should be very careful at all times in discussing the use or nonuse of nuclear weapons. … I don’t believe that any president should make any blanket statements with respect to the use or nonuse of nuclear weapons,” Clinton said.

Asked about the idea of unilateral U.S. military action in Pakistan to get al-Qaida leadership, Clinton said: “How we do it should not be telegraphed or discussed for obvious reasons.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..r-weapons/

Jonathan @ 139

The argument goes that if you raise corporate tax rates, corporations simply pass their tax increase along to customers in the form of higher prices.

So be prepared for this argument: Lowering corporate tax rates will lead to lower prices for consumers.

But, if the tax rate is significantly (perhaps ANY) lower than the personal income tax rate, then all kinds of individuals will find ways to earn zero income and use their corporations to hold all the income. It’s a very old dodge to shelter income from the higher tax rate(s).

No, we’ve gotta find a way to keep everybody’s rate low and yet raise the money we need to run government. It’s a balancing act.

hackworth @ 121

EvilDrPuma @ 114

Just one more reason not to pay for cable.

What’s so funny about bankrupting the USA? Why do pundit assclowns hate America?

It’s contempt. They all look down their noses at people actually have to work for a living.

I can’t stand it anymore.

jakeD @ 240

FEMA wasn’t broken when Bush got appointed preznit. In fact, I’ve heard people saying it was almost doing too much for them before that.

solai @ 234
Okay, but is there someone who’s making a fortune in this mess?

Hedge funds skim as much as 2 percent off the top of the asset pool: Carl Icahn, the famed corporate raider, who—him too—recently launched a hedge fund, takes 2.5 percent. If you have a $1 billion fund, then, as one manager explains, “it’s January 1st. Welcome to work. You’ve got $20 million in the bank.” (And hedge funds don’t have many costs.) But the real money and the real defining characteristic of hedge funds, no matter their strategy, is this: They take a portion of the profits, usually 20 percent.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/…..res/10426/

Jake D. @ 240

hackworth @ 222

Yet, this guy that will turn around and tell you in the same breath that the United States is the most technologically advanced, most superior and stupendous nation on earth without socialized medicine.

One would think that if that were the case, our bridges wouldn’t collapse so much.

And, consider the same government you want to take over our health-care gave us FEMA after Katrina ; )

Hey, that’s like saying nobody can hit a home run just because you can’t hit a home run. You can’t hit a home run because you suck at baseball. By the same token, right-wing political hacks suck at running governments. That doesn’t mean everyone else does. :-)

Jonathan @ 139

The argument goes that if you raise corporate tax rates, corporations simply pass their tax increase along to customers in the form of higher prices.

Separating corporate from income tax only pushes people to collect their income in the form that’s taxed less.

We should have one income or capital gains tax rate and perhaps one consumption tax rate.

I’d like to see some part of people’s income going into long-term savings plans like IRAs or 401Ks and the like. There should be a way for everyone to share more in the country’s prosperity without it going straight into their pockets and then straight out to the retailers.

But, in any event, one tax rate kept relatively low should be our goal.

So be prepared for this argument: Lowering corporate tax rates will lead to lower prices for consumers.

TeddySanFran @ 187

selise @ 171

thanks! probably most everyone here has already seen it… but a comment or two couldn’t hurt.

here it is.

Commented and rec’d

thanks teddy, the last time i wrote a diary was over a year ago when pach asked me to write up one of our roots actions.

Elliott @ 184

sofistic @ 176

Any interest rate over 10% should be illegal under usury laws.

To our great misfortune, not in BushCo World.

In an economic world where CEOs don’t take all the company’s profits there would be reason to allow companies to make greater profits than 10%. It allows capital to flow to that company and that industry for it’s growth.

But, and it’s a huge BUT, if the capital runs out of the company like it’s leaking water, then how’s the company grow.

Instead, what we need is some kind of change in the way CEOs (and I suppose other execs) are compensated (funny use that word) which is less salary and probably less stock options (which dilute the stock for other people) and more stock which makes them rich if the company does well.

How you ensure they don’t just ‘pump & dump’ is another question. You’d probably have to disallow their stock sales for some time, so they would have an interest in the longer-term.

But, I’d guess corp. directors & stockholders could already do this. Why they don’t is a mystery. There’s clearly an imbalance in power and it’s shifted away from the stakeholders, away from stockholders and into the hands of a very very few people.

Elliott @ 130

Has Treasury Sec’y Henry Paulson had anything to say today about ANYthing that’s happened in re the financial world, such as still more tax cuts or maybe Dow dives? just to name two

btw I thought I knew a fair amount about the guy, but I had NO idea he’s a Christian Scientist. Revealing.

The Treasury Secretary no longer deals with the economy…since Bush’s Executive Orders he is now only dealing with capturing asset forfeitures of those HE ACCUSES of being associated with terrorists.

And apparently Gonzo no longer determines such law enforcement issues. Instead Gonzo’s job is to forget.