While forcing Big Pharma to disclose the amount of money it’s putting in doctors’ pockets is important, it only solves part of the problem of the dicey relationship between pharmaceutical companies and physicians. There is a key piece of it that a national registry does not address — namely, the data mining that allows drug companies to know how many prescriptions a particular doctor is writing for its products:
Gathering prescription information on specific patients is a recent marketing development that is being used to refine information on physicians’ prescribing preferences. The identity of individual patients is of little importance to pharmaceutical companies. What they are really after is information about a specific physician’s prescription-writing habits.
Physicians’ names are not protected by privacy laws in the way that patient names are protected — and data-mining companies have long gathered information on the number of prescriptions a particular doctor writes for specific drugs. Although pharmacies keep data on physicians that are identified only by the physician’s number, these numbers are easily matched to physician names by comparing them with lists of names purchased from the American Medical Association (AMA) Physician’s Masterfile. The Physicians’ Masterfile is a database that contains demographic information on all U.S. physicians, whether or not they are members of the AMA. Licensing information from the Physician’s Masterfile, and other database product sales, netted more than $44 million for the AMA in 2005.
Physicians control the distribution of prescription drugs, so every bit of information on them is valuable to the pharmaceutical industry. (Although physician assistants and nurse practitioners prescribe as well, both of these groups tend to prescribe more rationally than physicians. Because physician assistants and nurse practitioners do not prescribe large amounts of expensive branded drugs, their prescribing habits are not usually tracked. That may change in the future). The industry uses this prescribing data to maximize the efficiency of “detailing”, their term for the promotion of drugs to doctors by pharmaceutical sales representatives (otherwise known as drug reps).
Prescribing data are used to rank physicians on a scale from one to ten based on how many prescriptions they write. Drug reps also use prescribing data to track how many of a physician’s patients receive specific drugs, how many prescriptions the physician writes for targeted and competing drugs, and how a physician’s prescriptions change over time. All this information helps drug reps tailor their marketing messages to the physicians.
New Hampshire was the first state to ban the sale of prescription data; it was promptly sued by IMS and Verispan. Other states considering similar bills include NY, NE, AZ, IL, KS, ME, MA, RI, TX, VT, WA, and WV. Data-mining companies argue that prescription data is used for public health purposes, but the use of these data by government and academic researchers is vanishingly small. Make no mistake about it: the purpose of prescribing data is to assist industry to influence physicians to prescribe the most expensive drugs.
I have a doctor friend who writes a lot of prescriptions for Pfizer drugs. Pfizer knows that because they track it, and the perks they offer are based on that knowledge. They aren’t just throwing out bones randomly to doctors because they have nice offices, there’s a very specific perks-for-scripts relationship at work. My friend is hired with some frequency to give “lectures” to, say, five doctor colleagues (at several thousand dollars a pop) on behalf of the pharmaceutical company and their particular drug. Even my friend acknowledges that it’s quite the racket.
There are many other ways to get money into the pockets of reliably prolific prescription writers, but the fact is that at present every time a doctor puts pen to paper he/she knows that the pharmaceutical company is watching. Without that kind of Big Brother awareness, doctors might be more cognizant of their patients’ needs first and less likely to be influenced by self-interest. Cutting the supply line of information is a critical first step.
Related posts:
- America Doesn’t Ration Care – Except to Those Who Don’t Have Insurance
- Hello, White House? Doctors Strongly Support Public Option Says New Poll
- Marcy Winograd: Jane Harman Profits from Anti-Generics Amendment She Helped Eshoo Pass
- Castle-Based Medicine
- Reining in Big Pharma: Taking Away the Marketing Tax Deduction





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Then don’t zed!
Jane!
Jane!
Hello Jane!
Single digits. My MD is definitely a drug pusher.
- 315 and falling
Well, that’s encouraging.
Every time I try to wrap my hands around the mess that is the US healthcare system, I think that the only solution is to blow it up and start over. I don’t know how you get, incrementally, from a junkyard Pinto to a trusty Prius, without just setting the Pinto on fire and going to a Toyota dealer.
Pardon the metaphor – my words are not working well today. But I think you get my drift…
Thanks, Jane! I’m all ready composing my letter to my reps to find out why Michigan doesn’t have a ban on prescription data mining.
This is one of those you-know-it-exists-but-not-to-what-extent time-to-wake-up moments.
LS @ 6
That trend started from the get-go this morning.
OT..Re-Post? WTF?
Waxman unaware of inherent contempt?
by Kagro X
“Your witnesses aren’t showing up — They’re ignoring your subpoenas,” said Reik, “so it is time for you, Congressman Waxman, to recognize that there is a precedent for members of congress to initiate criminal proceedings.”
Waxman said he was unaware of the “inherent contempt” power. In a follow-up letter after the meeting, Winograd emailed him information on the “inherent contempt” precedent.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/9/13058/42383
I love my Dr.
Old hippy with a ponytail.
I never walk out of his office without an armload of samples for whatever I came in for, even things he just wants me to have. Saves me a bundle every time.
But of course, this is part of Big Pharma’s plan, right?
Steve-AR @ 10
How is that possible? Well, it sure explains a lot.
Harsh words. It’s not falling. It’s correcting. This site must be chock full of liberals.
Wonder what the ratio is of Democratic voting physicians to Republican voting doctors is in this country? And how does this ratio compare to say Britain and Canada in terms of conservative voting doctors vs. labor party or liberal MD.s?
So much is so wrong in so many ways with our so-called “health care system.” And, if “health care system” isn’t the most self-glorifying and least-describing appellation, I don’t know what is.
The good work being done by the many doctors, nurses, and other professionals is being made invisible by the layers and layers of pocket-lining, palm-greasing, and profiteering.
Clusterfuck said to be “calming markets”- apparently he’s doing his normal “helluva job” DOW toilet bound.
Mutant Poodle @ 7
What MP said.
Easy way around the “prescription data is used for public health purposes” argument—only report the generic name of the drugs. That way there’s no way to say Company X’s brand name is selling more than Company Y’s.
Of course this is a bogus argument, Big Pharma wants the data for “marketing” research, not health research.
Mutant Poodle @ 7
Doctors prostitute themselves to pharma reps. Reps take them to the Daytona 500. They see the race from a suite with all complimentary amenities. Its a perk that would cost a thousand dollars per person if available.
Reminds me of convicted Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff.
I used to know a big pharma rep. He became a trainer at the home office. He shared this info with me.
Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate who is promoting a total shake down of our health care system – Single Payer healthcare will cut out insurance company and big pharma rip offs.
Steve-AR @ 10
I’ve got to believe Waxman was responding to the “criminal proceedings” part, which is somewhat a misstatement of the nature of inherent contempt.
I worked for a pharmaceutical data mining copy in the ’90’s for a couple of years, and the goals as stated in this post are absolutely correctly characterized. The sheer volume of prescription data being processed (well over a terabyte back then, who knows how big now?) required an entire month of analysis, every month, for marketable results.
The other project, nascient at the time, was software to establish “best practices” (read: cheap practices) for physicians, so insurance companies could recommend restrict covered procedures. Most of the programmers were taken aback a bit by this, but they soldiered on…
Pervasive, perverted prescription pharma.
Not even the worst news of the day:
DeMint (R-SC) put a hold on the S 558 Mental Health Parity Act before the Senate took its August recess.
Admiral John Agwunobi, Asst. Sec of HHS is jumping ship to go directly to Wal-Mart to become its chief
lobbyist“health and wellness director.” He most recently used DemFromCT and others in the flubie community in a crass way on the HHS bogus Pandemic Flu Leadership blog. And he put forth lots of wrong and misleading pandemic flu preparation misinformation as his “public service.”Publix markets announced to great fanfare on Tuesday that it was going to fill several kinds of antibiotic prescriptions for free, and then quietly on Wednesday announced that it was halting its $4 prescription program for drugs which require long term use, thus forcing independent pharmacists to compete with no cost scrips, while forcing people who can’t afford the long term use drugs to go elsewhere to find affordable prescriptions.
Bill’O and Co will surely make something out of this:
Jane, it’s a busy day in clinic – but thanks for this piece. You are spot on.
I’m glad that UCSF and UCLA have effectively banned drug reps. WHen I worked at Santa Clara County Mental Health, I refused to use taxpayer time to meet corporate flacks from Pig Pharma. (The other MD’s followed.) In SF County, the drug reps are also banned from Mental Health clinics.
I love to share info: I don’t need a check from Pig Pharma to talk to my colleagues.
I spend my time in academia and public health, so the vast majority of the MD’s I meet aaren’t greedballs.
The MD’s who take Pig Phama bribes for their prescribing are beneath contempt.
Thanks for shinin a light ontheir dark little corners. Blergh.
Now back to charts.
Kaiser Network also publishes many very helpful resources and guides. One that FDL folks might find useful is the State HealthFacts Guide. You can click on your state to find statistics, resources, policy and funding/cost information.
And the influence and now acceptance of pushing religious agendas is part of the healthcare picture as well. “Recently, the New England Journal of Medicine reported that 14% of U.S. physicians, representing different regions of the country and different medical specialties, believe that their personal religious views rather than the needs of their patients should determine which perfectly legal medical treatments they offer and, more distressing still, that they are under no particular obligation to disclose this bias to their patients or to refer them to other physicians who will offer the treatment.”
http://newsweek.washingtonpost…..inionsbox1
Excuse me?
One thing that really bothers us is that a certain Democratic candidate for president is the second largest receiver of funds from the health care industry.
My college roommate when on to work at Children’s Hospital in Pitts and became a whistle blower on U of Pitt, a principal investagtor and some phara pushing Am*xicill*n for otitis media in children.
They forged the results from FDA clinical trials and tried to publish a paper in JAMA and NEJM.
Long story short he was put through hell for more than a decade and couldn’t get the case heard under the False Claims Act, Qui Tam taxpayers lawsuit despite the DOJ claiming to be trying to prosecute the case. Some PA judge simply wouldn’t put it on the docket. Shades of Gitmo?
That “false” use of the drug was worth $2BB in annual sales. Get it?
Drug companies are disgusting. Add in the the U of Pitt which was also scamming the taxpayers.
~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
More and more I see folks ‘paying’ for their meds with plastic.
AP – Wall Street fell sharply again Thursday after a French bank said it was freezing three funds that invested in U.S. subprime mortgages because it was unable to properly value their assets. The Dow Jones industrials fell more than 200 points.
Did my post disappear into moderation or is Big Pharma here too? hahahaha
TobyWollin @ 26
Thank God for the 86 percent who don’t use their religion thusly.
Newsweek and the MSM are promoting religion very forcefully lately. Any doctor that withholds treatment b/c of personal religious views should have his license revoked.
That should be included in Newsweeks story. Is it?
Pharma has been found guilty in many qui tam cases… look it up.
They are stealing from us major big time. The most profitable “industry” – drugs
hackworth @ 19
VOTE FOR KUCINICH!!!
On a side note, this notice is moving through the cancer community today: http://www.ambassadorsevents.com/livestrong/
The Livestrong Presidential Cancer Forum.
So far, Clinton, Edwards & Richardson have committed to the event, as have Huckabee, Brownback & Tommy Thompson. Lance Armstrong & Chris Matthews will be moderating.
It’s nice to see an athlete using their star power for good!
Steve-AR @ 10
That’[s weird b/c the COngressional Research service issued–yet another– report in cogress’s contempt powers just a week or two ago.
SOMEBODY had to order the report. It is the latest in a bunch of similar reports that really did not need updating.
So, I’m confused. Who ordered the report?
Hackworth: You bet.
“As epidemiologist Petr Skrabanek put it years ago, to allow doctors’ religious values to interfere with the care patients receive is “a social movement dressed up in scientific language.” For doctors who can’t do this, there is a clear alternative: find another profession.”
There is a list of doctors who write prescriptions and what the prescripitions are? Can we find out if Rush and or his house keeper are staying clean of the Oxyc*nt*n?
Does this list include mailing addresses, maybe Rush is ussing a differnt name but still getting stuff delivered to his homes?
I know this sounds slighly off topic but if Republicans start getting named for the funky prescripitions they take wether its Oxyc*nt*n or just the latest anti Syphilis drug because the list falls into our hands.
Then we could get them to act to stop this data mining.
Or we could all have a big laugh about all the disease Senator Vitter picked up..
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
hackworth @ 31
. . . Any doctor that withholds treatment b/c of personal religious views should have his license revoked.
That should be included in Newsweeks story. Is it?
Why should it be?! Yours is definitely a minority OPINION, not part of the NEWS story. You can’t FORCE a Christian doctor to perform an abortion, can you?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 27
They had to convince her to stop all that crazy talk about a national health care plan that would cut out the insurance industry and big pharma.
She’s convinced. They shall be not be excluded – they shall be very much included.
Kucinich is the only Single Payer (Federal Government) candidate.
Jane, I think you have raised a good point with respect to the kickbacks and some pharmas but there may be a benefit as well: That information could be used to track adverse drug reactions. I’m not saying it is or that is the primary mission. But drug companies do have a legitimate interest in such things and I could see them using the information that way.
Jake D. @ 38
Opinions are like…
my bold
portia.vz @ 40
Another “legitimate” use would be to track Hollywood doctors who over-Rx celebrities like Anna Nicole Smith.
I have a vague memory that during the 2000 Presidential campaign Gore said that the single most critical issue facing the country in the coming years would be privacy rights.
Judging from the rampant legal and illegal spying on the inhabitants of this country, he was correct.
Doctors who cooperate as pimps for the pharm industry are part of the problem. One of the biggest ways big pharm has indoctrinated physicians over the years is by bankrolling conferences that give continuing medical education presentations that doctors need. These presentations are just promotions for the newest drugs. Most doctors get an awful lot of their pharmacy info from the seller. Is it any wonder that they often have little understanding of the negative side effects or untoward effects of these drugs?
As a consumer you can try to find a doctor who doesn’t jump on the bandwagon of every new drug that comes along. Why should you be a guinea pig for big pharm? Ask for generics, they’ve been around long enough that all the bugs are worked out. You aren’t paying through the nose for something new, relatively untested, potentially dangerous, and most importantly, you aren’t putting extra money in big pharm’s pocket. Tell you doctor flat out that you don’t trust everything the drug companies say and that he shouldn’t either. If he doesn’t like that, get a doctor who does, they are out there.
Doctors who can’t practice critical thinking and allow themselves to be bought by drug companies are traitors to their patients, their profession and the oath they took as physicians. If their medical or osteopathic associations and their peers won’t call them on that, then their patients should.
Your friend, the one who gives the talks for money should be ashamed of himself. He is certainly doing harm, and the money he gets from these talks is blood money. Call him on it, and whatever you do, don’t choose him as your personal physician. There are honest doctors out there who certainly know better. Find one.
I wonder if it would be in the public health interest to create a publicly available searchable database to determine what drug companies your doctor or candidate doctors like to prescribe?
One could crunch a database to find doctors that prescribe more than median for their specialty. More than median of a particular drug for their specialty.
That would be nice information to know about my doctor.
Jane,
We must have the same friend. Mine gets $1000 meals (for two) for him and his wife when the sales rep just can’t make it to dinner, and trips to talk around the world. He knows it’s a racket, but figures that he’s going to be prescribing Lipitor anyway, so why the hell not take some of the Pfizer skim?
And this is in Canada.
Idealy, barring a Gore run, Kucinich would make the best next president. In our opinion.
“…wonder if it would be in the public health interest to create a publicly available searchable database to determine what drug companies your doctor or candidate doctors like to prescribe?” and which Pharma stocks the good MD is heavily invested in.
Dow Jones down 379 at close.
Re: Waxman. As I noted below, I called Waxman’s LA office and asked the aide about the ‘inherent contempt’ rumour. SHe said that while she didn’t want to speak for him without checking first, she would be very surprised if he was not aware of that power.
On another topic: has ANYONE heard a peep from the Dem leadership over the FISA fiasco? (Pelosi, Reid, Emanuel?)
I suppose we could ask our doctors on our next visit who they see as the most patient and doctor friendly of the presidential candidates. We did. I changed MD’s. My friend did not. We are both Democrats.
when I go to the doctor, I wait in the lobby while the drug sales people are in bribing it. dirty shit would rather see it’s bribes than patients.
last time this shit for brains is going to see me
Retirin at 47,
What about a publicly available searchable database to determine which doctors are getting fees, kickbacks or other benefits from drug companies? These people should be called out for who and what they really are. If physicians would band together and censure these folks, maybe get their medical associations to take a stand, but they won’t. God forbid someone give up a free dinner to do the right thing. I am the daughter of a physician and I know damn good and well there is no real excuse for taking what amounts to a bribe from a drug company.
oh yeah, and “don’t do that” thanks Henny
Could it be that working American men and women are over extended credit wise? And have practically no savings.
Steve-AR @ 10
As for Waxman, I’m disgusted but not surprised.
Those who post here know a hell of a lot more about various topics (e.g., economics, history, law, and medicine) than any equal-number sample of entrenched House (or Senate) members. All those people know, basically, is politics and how to play games with House (and Senate) rules.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 54
How can that be? Junior’s always talkin’ ’bout his great economy.
Sorry, got nothin’ but sarcasm today. Better just lurk and not tie up the threads.
Here’s a story: I’m waiting for my guy in the waiting room of a good hospital, it’s four hours with a book. We’re the usual assortment of people. In come this lovely couple dressed for the Ritz. Black hair, black sheath, long tan bare legs and a wisp of black straps holding the perfect french pedicure to the stiletto.
He’s clearly turned on to her and tall, dark in a navy suit. Cuffs, silk tie, just got his teeth whitened. They lean in to the most practical Italian grandmother who has treated the rest of us like friends. They turn on the charm and ask her to page a doctor. Our grandmother is polite, not impressed.
He tells her a story of how a snake came through a pipe and into his washing machine, scaring his wife. While the grandmother answers the phone and helps whoever is next the tall dark story teller says to Jacqueline Kennedy, “They love the snake story.”
No doctor.
They approach nurses and are incredibly cheerful, polite as they ask about the doctor. The nurses look at the grandmother as if to say the fat cats are back.
The two sit far away from us in a hidden corner talking, smiling, she’s rubbing her bare arms and legs, laughing at his stories. Grandmother pages again.
Finally, from behind the nurse/reception station, a doctor emerges and the two jump up with hell-os you hear at the country club. Such pleasant talk as they shake hands, laughing, and tall dark reaches into his inside jacket pocket and pulls out an envelope.
The doctor disappears and the charming couple thank all the nurses and our grandmother effusively.
We all know who they were; he was training her. And the nurse who was taking calls while the grandmother stepped out looked me dead in the eyes when I confirmed that they were drug dealers.
Jake D. @ 38
What could/would happen to a doctor who refused to perform an emergency abortion for religious reasons, and the woman died?
I saw my doc a few weeks ago. I was having allergy problems. Before she prescribed a nasal spray, she asked be which insurance comp I am with. THEN she prescribed the spray.
Spot on Jane. But I wouldn’t be so sure about the complete disinterest in the patient (in a negative way). All records of my doctor visits are not open to the feds (I signed that away a couple of years ago). If you want to switch jobs, what is to stop a big company from getting ahold of (for a fee) the fed-pharma patient records to make sure there wasn’t some health problem that they would not want on their group policy. Totally illegal, I know, but possible. Ditto with the question of abortion. Those taking abortatives could be signaled as well through this means.
This from my scandals list:
It was through these changes IIRC that Big Pharma was allowed to track prescriptions at pharmacies and then using the AMA Masterfile to identify the individual doctors.
pat_alexva @ 44
Some doctors complain that they wouldn’t make enough money if they didn’t push lots of drugs. Its become too much a part of our corrupt system – doctors pushing drugs that people may not need.
Doctor X will prescribe the drugs from pharma companies (or the strongest pharma reps) that benefit Doctor X the most. This is especially prevalent in cases where different brands of like drugs can be substituted according to the doctor’s preference.
The doctor’s preference is often influenced by his favorite pharma rep.
Working from Starbucks. The wifi I was stealing from my mom’s garage disappeared yesterday.
My 89-yo mom says “Hi, Jane!”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
Boy, oh Boy. Bush has the merde touch again. He talks up the economy and the market tanks.
Can’t wait till he starts talking up the Gooper nominee.
-GSD
Hey Poppy Bush, he’s your boy. 387 points in the red.
Also, you may have read that it is at this point in time VERY difficult to find doctors who write up drug trials for JAMA and other medical journals who are not connected in some way financially with the drug company whose drug they are testing. Impact results?
Richmond @ 61
And if you work for an employer that is self-insured, it gets extremely detailed analyses of what was paid and for what services, medications, procedures, etc. So if you happen to have a high cost problem – say a transplant or renal dialysis, you can be darned sure your employer has figured out that it’s you. Those employees are at high risk for being terminated on seemingly unrelated issues 0 downsizing, right-sizing and poor performance (whether or not that’s truly the case). Hospitals are frequently self-insured, and their employees are at triple risk – once if they are patients at the facility where they are employed – their records are hotter than the NYTimes best seller list, twice as their employers analyze their self-insurance statistics and information, and thrice as their employee health departments can collect specific health information as a part of local, state and federal regulations.
oldtree @ 52
Some doctors still accept dinners under the guise of educational meeting, etc. but a lot of the old style gifts have been frowned on for a decade or more. The “hook” that drug representatives use to get in and see physicians is free samples and introductory offers. These can be used by doctors to start indigent patients on therapy. The introductory offers may keep them on them for a while. The problem is that some of these are new and much more expensive than old standbys and generics.
N=1 @ 67
I know of one company that ended up getting rid of a pretty high-up manager-type. The particular man in question is the father of a very ill child who had many therapies and many operations.
The morality has been drained from our health care system. Its no longer about keeping people well, its more like a financial industry.
When preznit cuts medicaid money and people die, its murder.
smapdi @ 70
His hands are all ready dripping blood
A drive by on FISA
Sen. Biden was on the Leonard Lopate Show on WNYC today. When Leonard asked him why Ds voted for FISA, he bluntly said that W scared them about chatter and being blamed if there were an attack. It sounded pretty genuine, so that seems to be a large part of the story. The maneurving was probably how they accomplised it.
I think Michael Moore said it best. Paraphrasing here, but when we went into Iraq nobody seriously questioned it on the basis that it cost too much. Yet when it comes to expanded or universal healthcare all of a sudden it’s too expensive to do. Healthcare should be a right not a privilege if you can afford it.
On the pharma rep who took doctors to the Daytona 500: He invited a mix of doctors who were already good customers and doctors who had the potential to become new customers.
No doctors declined the suite treatment at the Daytona 500. Great view of the track in air-conditioned first class comfort, free food and booze.
The pharma company encouraged the rep to invite more non-customer doctors (to increase exposure/sales) than existing good customer doctors. The existing good customers were useful in that they would encourage the other doctors to buy from the rep (who was a super guy for taking them to the Daytona 500).
eCAHNomics @ 72
I like that Kerry couldn’t vote on FISA because he had a charity bicycle event to go to. And Biden couldn’t attend the YearlyKos because he had a book signing. As posted by someone earlier today.
http://www.bluemassgroup.com/s…..aryId=8175
All I can say folks is that this is disgusting. May they rot in Hell. My doc recently recommended that a family member -age 58- be tested for bone density. She refused because she runs, so it is not an issue plus the drugs don’t work (they make the bones seem denser, but they are actually more fragile). The Doc sad at least get a base-line test. She said no, because if they recommend something and she refuses, it may come back and be used against her later. The Doc concurred.
By the way was there ever a big suit by all the women who got breast cancer because of the estregen (sp) being pushed by the drug companies and docs? Also you know lots of vitamins are now made in China. WHo exactly is checking those things nationally? Or, on a totally different subject, all the cat and dog owners who lost pets and spent probably millions because of the unchecked Chinese pet food distributed here by American companies.
Ed*ard Teller @ 64
Hi ET’s mom! Kobe says to bring her some pumpkin loaf.
eCAHNomics @ 72
You know we teach our kids to differentiate between the fantasy monster under the bed and the need to wear seat belts to avoid the real danger of a car accident. Couldn’t we expect the same from our leaders? Were they worried about say 100 people dying in attack (which happens every day due to big pharma pill pushing of drugs that cause more harm than good, or car accidents caused by the oversize unchecked trucks now on the road)? Or were they more worried about how Bush’s Rethug controlled MSM would paint them? The latter: Let’s destroy the country for the good of the country. (snark).
eCAHNomics @ 72
So Biden is giving that as the excuse. Why couldn’t they give OUR concerns at least equal weight?
Why did they give Bush more than he asked for?
Why did they assign all responsibility to DNI and AGAG (Bushies)?
Why are they listening to terror alerts from LIARS?
Why did the NIE say there is almost no likelihood of any US terror cells?
Why was DiFi confused (on the Intelligence Committee)?
Why did they allow this to last 6/18 months (instead of maybe just until September)?
Why did they NOT get oversight in exchange (instead losing all leverage for oversight currently being attempted)?
Why have we NO public evidence of terrorist threats/activities in 6 YEARS?
Why?
Why?
Why?
Do Biden et al even know that newFISA is about constitutional rights? I’m beginning to wonder.
And if they are SO AFRAID why have they not investigated the Anthrax attacks. Tom Hartman was saying today there were 2 people who looked to be going to stop the Patriot Act. Daschle and Leahy. They were sent Anthrax.
I’m so fed up.
Oh, and I don’t believe in pharmaceuticals anymore. I have begun refusing my doctor’s drug options. I was given a sample drug last year that had ASPARTAME in it!!!!! What a crock. And I am a chemical sensitivity patient so that is verboten. But it should be verboten for anyone. The one prescription I need to take is handmade by my pharmacist so I don’t have an allergic reaction; when my doctor was away last year her clinic refused to authorize a renewal of the handmade version for my own “good.”
Cranky today, you bet.
Jane, I hope this is one of your special causes. It is going to take a miracle to break up this cartel… an effing miracle. And I want to help.
It’s always seemed to me that as as far as Big Pharma is concerned, doctors exist solely to peddle the Pharama’s product. Any legislation,or moral concept, or indeed, person that gets in the way of that concept is to be treated as an enemy.
The doc as salesman. That’s about it!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 47
Oh OK Kiddo my friend, I love Kucinich but if Gore can’t be persuaded to jump in the race I’m convinced John Edwards not only has the best chance but is honestly much more electable than dear Kucinich. Meanwhile -
ReElect President Gore and VP Edwards is my mantra.
The LA Times did a big series of articles in this weeks “Health” section on this very topic .
http://www.latimes.com/feature…..;cset=true
hackworth @ 19
This is no longer correct.
Due to new legislation, there is a very real cap on the amount of money a rep or pharma company is allowed to spend on a particular doctor. It’s to the point where they count the pens and notepads they drop off to make sure they don’t go over the limit.
To say that “Doctors prostitute themselves to pharma reps.” is quite funny. Pharma reps are almost universally reviled, and have to resort to ambushing doctors as they walk down the hall to get any of their time.
I found this sentence in the original post to be overstated as well : “Make no mistake about it: the purpose of prescribing data is to assist industry to influence physicians to prescribe the most expensive drugs.”
IMS data is not used to influence a physician to prescribe more expensive drugs.
It is used by a rep to target which drugs he should talk to a doctor about. If the doctor writes prescription for a competitors drug more than mine, then I know I need to talk up the benefits of my drug vs. the competitor’s. Yes, it’s all about sales. Reps are salesmen, their job is to influence doctors.
Also, doctors can opt out of the IMS system, and many do. Their data is still collected, but not sold to the pharma companies with any personally identifying data.
Full disclosure: I work in the pharma industry… developing software to help pharma companies better utilize IMS data. :-)
I may not be the most un-biased source, but I do know a touch about the topic.
InfoNut
I worked for a home IV infusion therapy company fifteen years ago and this stuff was going on — sending doctors to give “papers” in a desirable vacation spot to a few of their colleagues (who also, coincidentally, had been treated to that same vacation spot) on our company’s dime. I’m so sorry to learn it’s still happening.
It will take someone with a significant amount of spine to deal with the cancer of drug company
payolalobbying in doctor’s offices around the country. I’m thinking there is all kinds of spine amongst those who frequent this site.-S
BTW,
There is a movement among IMS opponents… sort of a compromise… to move to what’s known as “brick level data”. Rather than providing prescription data on individual doctors, data would be aggregated into “prescriptions per zip code (or group of zip codes)”. This would allow companies to still target sales efforts, without doctors feeling like their privacy was being invaded.
This is how IMS data is handled in Europe, and I think would be a viable compromise here in the states as well.
IN
rwcole @ 16
The “Street DOES NOT respond to bloviating politicians when there’s money at stake.
kirk murphy @ 24
Maybe it should be law, huh?
How do the clinics and hospitals then go about learning about what drugs are available and ordering them? What’s the best lobbyist-free procedure?
MarkH @ 88
Continuing medical education – can be done (and for the longest time was done) by the pharmacists and medical educators at the local taeching hospitals.
In each specialty, MD’s are barraged with psid info from Pig Pharma, as well as “wastebasket” ‘journals’ stuffed with Pharma ads. That crap will keep coming [outside the facilities] in any event.
Pig Pharma pushes docs to use the latest Rx (on patent) evenwhenfar less costly alternatives are more effective and far less expensive. The wasted costs (from misprescibing due to drug reps) can easily cover the costs of objective CME on meds.
FOr the students, th eplace to learn is pharmacology – not the flipping drug rep lunches.
InfoNut @ 84
InfoNut, I do not agree about the IMS data not being used to push MD’s to RX more expensive drugs.
However, I’d be delighted to opt out of the IMS system – and help my academic colleagues to do so en masse.
How do docs “sign up” to opt out?
The AMA offers on its web site an option for doctors to deny access to their prescribing patterns to drug companies. However, they warn that this may cause a decrease in the number of free samples provided.
I do notice that I don’t get as many free samples as I used to before I filled out the request to deny access to my prescribing data, although I get lots of free prenatal vitamins which I use to give the pregnant women who are waiting for their Medicaid applications to go through so they can get prescriptions filled.
Yes, these are the expensive vitamins but I figure the Medicaid population often especially needs the good vitamins anyway. Mostly they use more easily absorbed and tolerated forms of iron.
By the way, I don’t belong to the AMA for political reasons and never have.
kirk murphy @ 90
Teresa @ 91 covered opt-out nicely.
Thanks Teresa
Like Teresa said, it only takes a minute to fill out the AMA opt-out. The non-profit physician group I work for has an on-site sample pharmacy– the reps drop the samples off there, and leave us alone in the clinic. It takes effort to not be influenced- but it is worth it.
Accurate and revealing post!
The big ticket script peddlers do get the lions share of attention by reps, but phamas don’t entirely neglect potential clients by a long shot.
Money rains down on this big business even if all of the doc’s staffs aren’t getting lunch brought in every day by a rep.
Jane..wonderful and interesting article.
Before I even left FDL, I had written a letter
to my Rep., John Tierney, and hopefully he will
take some action. He is a good guy when it comes to working for the people. I sent it to his new secretary and told her to either give it to him
or email it to him. He is home locally I think and he should be ready in September. I agree with the assumption that the PA or nurses write more generic scripts as I see it all the time.
Both Mr. M and I take a lot of stuff and they are aware of that. Now and then because of his transplant, he MUST take a brand name, but over time if he reacts ok, then the might switch to the lower priced brand.
Will be putting this one into the save folder.
Maureen
I worked for one of those data mining companies until recently. Ours was a little different. Better or worse is hard to say. We matched anonymized doctor office visit data against the prescription data as well. So we could show over time how a doctor was diagnosing, treating and prescribing. But this really was at the “market research” level. Just showing trends and differences in the uptake of new drugs. We seldom detailed to the physician level. It happened more on procedures.
Over all it was a bit creepy, but not as sinister as the folks who actually track prescriptions by doctor.
More often than not, it was information that helped a company decide whether investing in a new drug in a market made financial sense. If it can be accused of anything it would be of providing more evidence to drug companies for why they should develop or not develop a drug for an orphan illness.
Sure, ideally every condition would be funded to the nines with research on treatment. But thats not the system today.
Sadly, I am a pharma rep. It is, however, my last week, so I feel I can freely share my thoughts here at FDL.
The little good that reps do is to provide clinical evidence about a particular drug’s efficacy, mainly through published studies. Doctors can’t keep track of all the information that is out there; they are physicians and not pharmacists, and so there is generally a small need for reps to answer questions and provide genuine knowledge about a drug’s application.
However, that is not how the system works. The system is broken. Most doctors, which I would pin down at 75% from my experience, cater themselves to the pharmaceutical industry and will pimp themselves out to the highest bidder. This is done through speaker programs, for which doctors are paid an honorarium, as well as office lunches, expensive dinners, and small gifts. Actually, spending on doctors has been severely curbed; ten years ago it was not uncommon for doctors to be given expensive vactations or season tickets for sporting events.
Not only is this horrible medicine- this is money that could be spent on research for new cures or that could be put back in the pocket of the customer so they could actually afford medication. Again, most doctors will cater (write prescriptions) to the company that rewards them the most, which means that, for each class of medication, they have four or five reps each spending thousands of dollars per year on a single doctor. There are hundreds of classes of medications that exist.
The best doctors don’t play this game- and only spend time with reps discussing clinical data by going over peer-reviewed published journals. This is what medicine is supposed to be, and sadly, what we have in the US is far from it.
If you look back in the history of health care reform in the USA, it is the AMA that has been out front AGAINST any sort of universal or national health care. They are the number one enemy of making sure all people get covered because they won’t be able to snag those perks like Mr. Kain mentioned.
They claim to hate the system but it is the one under which they profit the most. A lot of them are deluded into thinking it is a free market system, but most of them wouldn’t know one if it came up and bit them on the rear end.
Just mention to your physician that his “union” is one of the main reasons health care in this country is in a mess. It has been since it started…
Doing a very quick driveby. Pharma companies are like lobbyists to the doctors. I know a few doctors who are clean, and others who are not so clean. Marcia Angell nails it on the head in her book, The truth about drug companies. There is fake research and conferences that tell doctors that prescribing an epilepsy drug is good for bipolars, & etc. (Even doctors can be credulous). When in fact it was not, nor FDA approved. Forget the name of the drug. But what a fiasco. HMO pushes for lower amounts of visits and aids and abets the drug companies by pretending a patient can go for months without visits, since drugs are supposed to be so great, particularly in the Mental Health area. It kills the Mental Health profession really for HMOs to pretend that mental health is nothing but a prescription thing. Doctor Freud would be appalled I think.
Incidentally, I was picking up a prescription at a chain pharmacy and the coversation went like this: Pharmacy clerk says that she lost her pen. I say, but the pharm reps always provide enough pens for you don’t they? Pharmacy clerk, says oh yeah and lots of other stuff as well, last week our rep brought us pizza, & etc.
Pizza?!?