From the Associated Press this afternoon:
Need a down-payment for your home? Seed money to start a business? The Army wants to help — if you’re willing to join up.
Despite spending nearly $1 billion last year on recruiting bonuses and ads, Army leaders say an even bolder approach is needed to fill wartime ranks.
Under a new proposal, men and women who enlist could pick from a “buffet” of incentives, including up to $45,000 tax-free that they accrue during their career to help buy a home or build a business. Other options would include money for college and to pay off student loans.
An Associated Press review of the increasingly aggressive recruiting offerings found the Army is not only dangling more sign-up rewards — it’s loosening rules on age and weight limits, education and drug and criminal records.
It’s all part of an Army effort to fill its ranks even as the percentage of young people who say they plan to join the military has hit a historic low — 16 percent by the Pentagon’s own surveying — in the fifth year of the Iraq war.
Golly gee, I can’t imagine what could be deterring them. You know, every now and again, I’m given to yammering about the so-called Powell Doctrine and why it would be a good idea for Democrats to urge its re-adoption. This AP story helps explain why, as I wrote two years ago:
. . . the famed Powell Doctrine wasn’t just a namby-pamby theory adopted for bureaucratic reasons — it’s an essential contract for maintaining a modern volunteer army in the United States. The unspoken agreement is that if volunteers trust the U.S. government with their lives, the government will honor the value of those lives and do everything to minimize the risk they face.
In Iraq, that contract has been broken.
Unless we restore that contract, I don’t know how much longer we can successfully maintain a volunteer army.
(Photo of an Army recruiting office via the Associated Press.)
Related posts:
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- Steve Schmidt Sells Shit by the Seashore
- Dick Cheney Spied on the State Department–Did He Intercept Torture Whistleblower Emails?
- Sesame Street: Tackling Tough Economic Times Together
- House Intelligence Committee Catches Defense Department Hiding Clandestine Operations
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zed
ding dong
?
Oh, Mitch. I knew you could do it, you fast-fingering son of a gun.
What’s going to happen when millions of Americans end up in foreclosure in the next year?
16%?
Thats a tough sell.
Maybe the younger ones have heard what is going on over there and said, No Thanks.
I know I wouldn’t have went voluntarily.
Gee, I’m thinking there must be historical models of bankrupting populations to the point that the only way they can survive is to “serve”….
What is wrong with offering financial incentives for VOLUNTEERING to join defend our great nation? I was in the Army during the Korean War and didn’t get $45,000 TOTAL!!!
we are the Unzed
LS @ 5
Foreclosures are up an astonishing 310% from last year in my city alone. Sad fucking state of affairs.
Swopa!
In fact, in Germany, many businesses were closed and traditional livelihoods ended by the government in order to force people to fight for the Homeland..see Goebbel’s long speech.
LS @ 5
I was over at Marcy’s place the other day and practically begged for solid, progressive, reality based financial planners to help us. This would be a public service which would help thousands to take prudent action.
tbsa @ 10
We’ve gone from nerfs to serfs.
Bush administration: Incentives for murder.
bullets for a mortgage..
Wont you help your friendly robber baron today?
We will give you cold cash for your life or your limbs.
OT..news..
Romney Fundraiser Indicted
by MissLaura
Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 03:26:50 PM PDT
Alan B. Fabian, 43, of Cockeysville, is charged in a 23-count indictment with mail fraud, money laundering, bankruptcy fraud, perjury and obstruction of justice. The grand jury handed up the indictment Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Baltimore and it was unsealed Thursday.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/9/171238/1151
BJs in public bathrooms, coke, rape, and fraud..Good old christian family values.
LS @ 11
Yeah…figures.
Boston1775 @ 13
Yes! There needs to be a bail out, regulation of banks and the mortgage industry, and relief for the employers of the government…that would be We the People.
This is a new thread, so let me repeat that Tucker Carlson is the douchiest douche bag of all time.
E.g. — his attack on Hate Crime legislation: “Why should you be valued more than a straight person?”
— Hillary Clinton is doing a “nurse for a day” thing to call attention to the state of health care in the U.S. So, T.C. says “we have a picture of her, hold on, here it is: [picture of Nurse Ratchet.]”
Jake D. @ 8
I know a few volunteers and they don’t get paid at all…nor do they accept bribes.
Hello, Swopa, great post. Also great to see you again in Chicago!
Apparently the FBI thinks gangs are sending members to the Army to gain tools and tactics experience:
Steve-AR @ 17
Truth is stranger than fiction.
Jake D. @ 8
There’s nothing at all wrong with volunteering to serve. I served in the USAF.
But you seem to be missing the point that the Army is having to pay large sums to GET people to serve nowadays, even after they’ve relaxed the age weight and criminal records standards. Is this the Army you want with gang bangers, drug dealers, racists and so on representing your Korean War valour?
um . . . it’s not a volunteer army. it’s a poverty draft.
i don’t think mitt romney’s five golden boys will be swayed, do you?
BigMitch @ 19
My regard for Tucker Carlson could fit in a thimble with plenty of room left over for Tweety, Timmeh!, Faux News’ entire lineup, and Holy Joe Lieberman.
What if they gave a war and nobody came?
I don’t know how you can stand to watch Fucker Carlson.
For most people (the non-rich) the economy is in the toilet. Don’t know why the Dems don’t hammer the GOP on this. Unless of course my party is complicit.
dakine01 @ 22
Let’s not let that asshat hijack threads. Come away to your happy place.
Eureka Springs @ 21
I was referring to the all-VOLUNTEER Army — are you really that obtuse?
Ace Armstrong @ 26
hasn’t happened yet.
I heard that Tweety was on fire, turned on MSNBC, and now it is on, and I give it the horrified regard usually reserved for train wrecks and freak shows.
dakine01 @ 24
It’s better than re-instituting the draft.
Jake D. @ 30
Only with known trolls who support this genocidal maniac, George Bush.
Patriotism ends with most politician’s children and grand children.
Eureka Springs @ 20
You’re responding to a troll who has been spending his afternoon trying to take control of threads here. Let him be.
with no end in sight
and over at daily kos no end in sight has white house spooked…the powell doctrine must be put on the table, chimpy’s pre-emptive slop needs to stop.
chimp doesn’t use words like obtuse.
lynette @ 24
Mitt’s litter is serving America, though, by helping elect him President. As Jon Stewart said last nite, if four of them fall to paper cuts or flying confetti injuries, the fifth will be brought back behind the lines to staff a phone bank or something.
If the American people want a volunteer army, then they say, in effect, that all the U.S. military actions post-1973 are OK.
After all, a volunteer army gives the prez a lot of unfettered power.
One might argue that the American people supported the war in Viet Nam in times of a draft.
Which is true, but when a majority of the people turned against the war, circa 1970, Nixon had no choice but to begin a withdrawal.
carolyn urban @ 36
And he thinks maniacs are where you get tapioca.
Eureka Springs @ 21
Jake D. @ 31
Oh, O.K., good retort. Have a nice evening.
LS @ 19
Are you kidding me? No bailout.
EvilDrPuma @ 28
Hold on now! That is the topic of this thread! I’m severely disappointed with what is transpiring within the Army now! I served twenty honorable years and I’m completely disgusted with the current trends in recruiting! I fully realize why, yet, I certainly do not condone it!!!
hmmmm. I don’t get it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 28
When Hillary said at YK that we were all safer since 9/11, and have all made sacrifices like taking off our shoes to board planes, everyone at my table asked, “When’s the last time she took off her shoes to get on a plane??”
For all the money John Edwards made as a trial lawyer, Mrs Clinton still comes across as the most privileged-appearing person on the stage. As Tweety said after the labor debate, she’s “majestic.”
TeddySanFran @ 40
if four of them fall to paper cuts or flying confetti injuries, the fifth will be brought back behind the lines to staff a phone bank or something.
Anything about Tom Hanks leading the rescue mission?
carolyn urban @ 44
Manioc, dear.
solai @ 43
Yes, of course, EVERYONE should read all the fine print before the sign any contract, including interest-only ARM contracts ; )
oops….trying to edit
From Goebbel’s Total War speech:
“Our general economy is consolidating. That particularly affects the insurance and banking systems, the tax system, newspapers and magazines that are not essential for the war effort, and nonessential party and government activities, and also requires a further simplification of our life style.
I know that many of our people are making great sacrifices. I understand their sacrifices, and the government is trying to keep them to the necessary minimum. But some must remain, and must be borne. When the war is over, we will build up that which we now are eliminating, more generously and more beautifully, and the state will lend its hand.
I energetically reject the charge that our measures will eliminate the middle class or result in a monopoly economy. The middle class will regain its economic and social position after the war. The current measures are necessary for the war effort. They aim not at a structural transformation of the economy, but merely at winning the war as quickly as possible.”
Somewhat on topic..I am not sure of the context..but taken at face value, it’s pretty sad.
Principles
By Big Tent Democrat, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 04:49:34 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Via Kevin Drum:
Tuesday night Sanchez said she could not support the [anti-Iraq Debacle] protesters because the $145 billion in Iraq war funding was in the same bill that would provide money to build the C-17 aircraft in California. “I never voted for this war,” she said. But “I’m not going to vote against $2.1 billion for C-17 production, which is in California. That is just not going to happen.”
Rep. Sanchez, you just said you were going to vote for the war, so that a California company will get a defense contract. 395 Californians have died in Iraq. Loretta Sanchez can put a price on their lives – 2 billion dollars. Not to mention the damage to the interests of the nation.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/8/9/174934/3818
Steve-AR @ 50
It seems that more than ten percent of the servicepeople killed aren’t enough to make Loretta Sanchez do the right thing. So to hell with her.
CTuttle @ 46
It doesn’t matter if the post is on-topic — if you aren’t a Bush-hater, you are a “troll” — welcome to the echo-chamber : )
LS @ 51
Do you know when he made this speech?
Jake D. @ 34
Day-uhm Jake! You done argued both sides on one thread. First it’s all about volunteering like you did in Korean War you say you served in so why are they paying because it is a volunteer army but paying is better than a draft.
What exactly DO you believe in? Since you are a vet of the Korean War, that puts you in the ballpark of seventy plus years old so let me ask you how many of your sons/daughters/grandsons/granddaughters have served?
From Goebbel’s Total war speech:
“Again let me say that the heavier the sacrifices the German people must make, the more urgent it is that they be fairly shared. The people want it that way. No one resists even the heaviest burdens of war. But it angers people when a few always try to escape the burdens. The National Socialist government has both the moral and political duty to oppose such attempts, if necessary with draconian penalties. (Agreement) Leniency here would be completely out of place, leading in time to a confusion in the people’s emotions and attitudes that would be a grave danger to our public morale.
We are therefore compelled to adopt a series of measures that are not essential for the war effort in themselves, but seem necessary to maintain moral at home and at the front. The optics of the war, that is, how things outwardly appear, is of decisive importance in this fourth year of war. In view of the superhuman sacrifices that the front makes each day, it has a basic right to expect that no one at home claims the right to ignore the war and its demands. And not only the front demands this, but the overwhelming part of the homeland. The industrious have a right to expect that if they work ten or twelve or fourteen hours a day, a lazy person does not stand next to them who thinks them foolish. The homeland must stay pure and intact in its entirety. Nothing may disturb the picture.”
Thanks for ’splainin. Off to consult the dictionary.
Drat. It says “same as cassava.” Look up cassava it says “tropical plant of the spurge family”
Cripes. I think I know what if feels like to be the chimp!
Steve-AR @ 54
Cindy Sheehan is already running against Nancy Pelosi — who can we get to run against Loretta Sanchez?
Jonathan @ 56
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb36.htm
carolyn urban @ 54
Never. He thinks a dictionary is a speech coach.
Steve-AR @ 49
Sounds like another California senator who’s husband is profiting handsomely off the war.
I’ve come to the conclusion that we need to end the volunteer military. Having a permanent military is draining all of the resources out of our economy and creating a permanent military class that’s disengaged from ordinary citizens. On top of this, a permanent military makes it too easy for bad politicians to start vanity wars. Remove the funding and the bodies from our military, and the only way wars get started is with a draft and taxes to pay for it, like it should be.
I’m willing to maintain reserves, they don’t live the military life 24/7 or live in military supercities. But we need to make the National Guard beholden only to each state, not part of a national military force that has become a de facto foreign legion.
Food for thought for firepups: how many countries besides the United States have projected military force stationed all over the world? UN or NATO-style peacekeeping operations don’t count. I’m referring to permanent military presences, like we have in the Phillipines, Japan, Germany and on and on. We are the last Cold War Empire and we are paying a dear price for it.
Funny, Halliburton doesn’t have a hard time signing “volunteers” on.
Jake – Who would you want to be president, and why?
Ah! Enlightenment. Read further. Cassava has edible starchy roots used to make tapioca.
Jeez, that’s pitiful to have to be walked thru a joke like that.
dakine01 @ 57
Several, and two are active-duty right now. How about you?
LS @ 55
So THAT’s where Bush’s speeches come from. Did Grandpappy store them in the family vault?
puppethead @ 60
I agree.
puppethead @ 58
All very good points. We could stand to remember that the standing volunteer military is a purely post-WWII invention that exists to fight ideologically-justified wars of choice…like Vietnam or Iraq. The U.S. never needed such a thing before the Cold War, and I’m willing to hear the argument that the U.S. doesn’t need it now.
Jake D. @ 66
I have no children but have multiple cousins currently serving in the Army, with one due to be in country within the month and another due to rotate back early next year.
Jake D. @ 32
Jake, I used to agree with you, but now I am leaning the other way. I wrote about my reasons in Fuck the Draft on my blog. That was when I came down against the draft. At the time, I said I didn’t trust the government to deal fairly with the lives of young people. However, as I observed, if we had a draft, we wouldn’t have this war. In WWII we needed a draft to protect us from the fascism of the Axis powers. In Korea and Vietnam, we needed a draft to protect us from the presumed threat of Communism. Now we may need a draft to protect us from the fascist threat of our own government.
Since I wrote that, I have had a change of heart because of the conduct of our troops in Iraq as described by Dr. Maryam, an Iraqi pediatrician. Her accusation that the instances of rape and murder by G.I.’s reflected our society made me re-think.
Jonathan @ 67
None of the current crop of candidates are my first choice. Could we somehow clone Harry Truman instead?
Robin Wright has a firestorm going over at Thinkprogress.
TP picked up her piece in the Wapoop about all of the neo-cons arguing for an Iran attack.
She says she was holding their opinions up to the light of day. TP says she was pimping the neo-con agenda.
I have seen her and read her and never considered her to be a far right idealogue.
-GSD
ccmask @ 66
A thousand bucks a day to drive a truck?
A lot of people would jump at that, IEDs or no IEDs.
dakine01 @ 73
GO ARMY!!!
Universal service, military or otherwise.
BigMitch @ 74
I’ll take a look at your blog and let you know what I think.
Gen. George Washington and Gen. Dwight Eisenhower warned us about large standing armies. They tempt tyranny.
We didn’t heed their advice and we are now paying the price.
I wish they would have warned us off of dry drunks with Lyme disease too.
-GSD
raven @ 71
I agree, strongly.
Just heard President Toddler talking about not failing in Iraq. Get a clue jerky George, we have already failed in the whole Middle East. And this nit-wit starts talking about the hijackers who did 9-11. Didn’t most of those guys come out of Saudi Arabia, the Bush family’s favorite Middle Eastern country?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
Yeah.
dakine01 @ 68
OK – you’re even up here, and this brings to mind something from my nursing days. There is an item called a condom catheter. Essentially it is as it’s name describes – a condom with drainage tubing at the end which can be attached to a collection device for use with males who are incontinent of urine. The company shipped tear -ff paper penile diameter measuring rules for correct sizing. Those rules disappeared at lightning speed the minute new stocks of the catheters arrived on the ward. ;^)
May I suggest that you both take whatever measurements you deem pertinent, and then put away the testosterone-fueled dueling?
The number of family members who serve is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
I hope this moment of sick nurse humor has lightened the tension.
raven, haven’t I seen you here before?
Shuster is saying on Hardball that Cheney is pushing to attack Iran. But Condi is advocating diplomacy. Hmmm. Wonder who’ll win that one?
carolyn urban @ 85
I’m ducking!
GSD @ 70
In this, they forgot a basic principle. Think of it this way. Pick a voter off the street. At random, anybody will do, as long as they vote. Talk to that person for one minute. Note how self-determinedly stupid they sound.
As a matter of probabilities, half of the American voting population is even more stupid than that.
N=1 @ 84
They buried the first female nurse killed by hostile fire since the Nam today.
(August 9, 2007)–The first Army nurse to be killed by enemy fire since the Vietnam War was buried with full honors Thursday.
Army Capt. Maria Ines Ortiz, 40, was laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery, in Arlington, Va.
The Edgewood, Md., resident was killed July 10 during an insurgent attack in the Green Zone in Baghdad.
Shrapnel from an insurgents’ mortar struck and killed Ortiz when she was returning from physical training.
Ortiz volunteered for duty in Iraq and was assigned to a combat surgical hospital in Baghdad last fall.
Ortiz worked for 18 months at an Army Health Clinic at Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland, before going to Iraq.
She also served from 2001 to 2003 as a dialysis nurse at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C.
Ortiz was born in New Jersey but actually grew in Puerto Rico.
She enlisted as a soldier with the Army Reserve in Puerto Rico in 1991 and began working in active duty in 1993.
Ortiz was commissioned as an officer in 1999.
The Aberdeen Clinic and the hospital in Baghdad have already held memorial services for Ortiz.
Ortiz was the first female nurse to die in combat in Iraq, 71 women in other specialties have been killed since the initial invasion of Iraq in March 2003.
Friends and family gathered in the rain to bid farewell to the fallen soldier and family members accepted folded flags in her honor.
Ortiz was engaged to be married upon return from Iraq.
More Local And State News >>More National News >
N=1 @ 68
Sounds like Rove is well-versed in the themes.
I absolutely cannot deal with Ron Christie.
dakine01 @ 71
I hope all of our soldiers serve honorably and come home as soon as possible, safely and unscathed.
I disapprove of the idea that someone is more patriotic or more qualified to have an opinion because s/he served. If it is a volunteer army, then the cost of not volunteering is not a loss of voice.
raven @ 85
may she rest in peace.
FYI, Bill Moyers live on cspan one right now.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
Bet: That the republicans will dictate the debate no matter who gets the most electoral votes in November 2008.
BigMitch @ 82
Well said.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 92
At least he doesn’t have to look at himself.
-GSD
I disapprove of the idea that someone is more patriotic or more qualified to have an opinion because s/he served. If it is a volunteer army, then the cost of not volunteering is not a loss of voice.
Disapprove or disagree.
BigMitch @ 88
but the cost of volunteering should be clear and up-front.
No lies or deceptions.
R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
raven @ 85
Was that Capt. Maria Ortiz? She was killed in the Green Zone – she went outside and wasn’t wearing body armor when she was hit by a mortar.
I like the Powell Doctrine.
An all volunteer military is so so.
As unpopular as the idea is, and there are currently a lot of good reasons for that unpopularity. I like a draft if only for the reason that it would make a more solid connection between the military and civilian populations. If a friend or relative is inside this machine, you care more about the machine. Its use and missuse and the use and miss use of its people.
Its a mean and nasty part of of a nations fortune. A disconnect between a nations population and its national struggle usually leads to a severe to fatal down tick in that nations fortunes.
My favorite mediation to the mean and nasty part is to only fight for internationally recognized worthy reasons. This is not easy, recognizing the worthy reasons. Another good reason for paying close attension. Which this site and other sites help do.
For what its worth. I was draft#54 in 1969. I chickened out and volunteered for the Navy when my family moved and my deferment for college seemed in doubt for an uncomfortable period of time. We both survived without alot of real damage
Jonathan @ 96
I am reminded of the last few episodes of West Wing, when President Bartlet handed over the Oval Office while waging a new war.
Eureka Springs @ 90
many thanks!!
Look at John Soltz, George McGovern, Max Cleland and John Kerry. Even when men serve they don’t earn any rights in far rightwing world unless the far rightwing party line is adopted.
-GSD
GSD @ 97
AP – Lyrics performed by Pearl Jam criticizing President Bush should not have been censored from a webcast by AT&T Inc., a company spokesman acknowledged Thursday.
“Unless we restore that contract, I don’t know how much longer we can successfully maintain a volunteer army.”
And since the draft is out, then the only alternative is a mercenary foreign legion. Worked sort of for France. Rome was able to sustain itself for an extra century with it. In order to work we must offer citizenship to all soldiers upon retirement. A new nation is coming into being.
syvanen @ 108
We’ve already given citizenship posthumsly.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 107
Rewarding Bush for pushing domestic spying amnesty for the telecoms, no doubt.
-GSD
“Silence is sedition”
moyers
Elliott @ 92
Note that she was not in the service because she had no other options. As a nurse she could have written her own ticket anywhere in the U.S., and as a dialysis nurse, she could have made it business class. Resquiet in pace.
Clearly overlooked the simplest explanation of all. Let the size of our forces be determined by the number willing to serve. If we can’t recruit the needed 2 million, then settle for 1 million person force.
raven:
Are you perchance implying that the term “Lying recruiters” is a text book example of an oxymoron?
From Pearl Jam’s fan website:
http://pearljam.com/news/index.php?what=News#195
The media has conspicuosly dissappeared war coverage.
The set-up for this falls’ new ad campaign is under way.
-GSD
dakine01 @ 114
Once you sign your ass belongs to them. . .
dakine01 @ 103
Perhaps more of a redundancy…?
Big Mitch – I am married to NY Jew who lectures me with the accent adanoy aloe hain u, and he married the daughter of a New England Congregational minister of a church founded in the 1600’s; it’s acutally the 1600’s. When he took me to Miami Beach to meet his parents – we’d been married seven months and I was three months pregnant – and I said I wanted to name him Zachary and she was on her deathbed and said, Dacquiri? and I wan’t sure what she said so she said it again, Dacquiri? … that’s a drink, she said, Dacquiri? Why don’t you name him a noble name like, like… *my head is turning like a sensitive dog*… Ralph — why don’t you name him Ralph?
I called my husband’s name and waited for him to answer that question.
So Mitch, I think I know you.
raven @ 111
And they never put their promises in writing.
EvilDrPuma @ 112
Ya know I think you’re correct…
And they’re going after everyone. Couple of my female students told me recruiters followed them into the General Store, sidled up and said “We’ve got little girls like you over in Bagdad right now”
carolyn urban @ 111
Disgusting.
lynette @ 25
It’s part of BushCo.’s new “Leave No Civilian Behind” program. No, wait! You’re right! It’s their new anti-poverty program!
It may be a “Volunteer” army, but that “volunteer” part ends right after you sign on the dotted line. So it really is more like indentured servitude.
Bob in HI
EvilDrPuma @ 55
I have a better idea,let’s create jobs by rebuilding and repairing America’s infrastructure. We spend more than the whole world combined on weapons. I think we have more than enough to destroy the planet a few times over.
raven @ 99
I agree that one doesn’t forfeit their opinion because they choose not to serve!
dakine01 @ 112
No, a redundency.
carolyn urban @ 120
A couple of weeks ago, they went after my friend’s 17 year old daughter and her two friends when they were going to go swimming in the local river. When one of the recruiters called my friend’s private(joke) phone number, which her daughter had not given him, and which was listed under a different surname than her daughter, my friend tore him a new one..
Let’s get real. The U.S. can evaporate militarily any fixed target. Our vulnerabilities are (a) bureaucratic in nature, and (b) lack of good police work.
CTuttle @ 126
Of course not, it’s supposedly the whole point of serving.
BigMitch @ 127
See EDP at 118 and my 121 – he already beat ya to it. :})
anangryoldbroad @ 114
Certainly enough to destroy anything that might, for whatever reason, actually need to be destroyed (not to be confused with the many lives and objects that haven’t needed to be destroyed but were anyway). Surely there is something else that could be manufactured domestically?
Here’s another thing: recruiters are actively working the high schools. Here in Vermont, parents must specifically request that their child’s contact information is off limits to recruiters, otherwise, it’s open season. People might want to check what’s going on in their state – chimp’s NO CHILD NOT BEHIND law allows recruiters access – if schools deny it – funding can be cut off.
Education could be manufactured domestically.
ccmask @ 123
As a (post-secondary) educator, I approve that idea.
dakine01 @ 129
Oh yeah? You think he’s fast? Well check Big at 1 and my #4! So there!
:-)
EvilDrPuma @ 132
Like,oh,maybe our own food? We used to feed ourselves,before the advent of monoplanting and big agribidness techniques. This is the one area I actually DO know alot about,and it’s not only possible,people are doing it in some parts of the country right now. Quietly,under the radar. We might not be able to feed ourselves totally,with a population of 300 million,but we could sure the hell take back the power that’s been given away over the last 50-60 years to corporations who do not give a damn about our health.
BigMitch @ 136
Now, there ya go again talking back to yourself. Is this a problem inherent in being a yankees’ fan?
EvilDrPuma @ 123
The moral rot in this nation will continue apace. I can hear the theme to Cabaret in the background.
Just reading the web postings and letters to the editor, this nation is corroding, rotting like a fish in the August sun.
-GSD
raven @ 130
Exactly, that’s why I’ve patrolled the DMZ in Korea and the fence between East and West Germany, no regrets, and proud of my service! I don’t disparage anyone’s choice I embrace it!!!
Anyone seen grandmaj and grandmajo around? I spent some time with them in Chicago and haven’t seen them in a couple of days.
AAOB,
There was an article about how NH and Mass. are bucking the national trend and increasing the number of farms.
-GSD
carolyn urban @ 121
That sounds downright criminal.
GSD @ 139
Do you ever wonder why all Dems and Repubs in the know are heading for the exit?
Right On. The localvore movement is big in this part of Vermont. And I am cultivating the biggest vegetable garden I’ve ever had this summer – trying a lot of new things – particularly subsistence foods – potatoes and beans for drying. Nothing beats feeding yourself and your family.
Jonathan @ 142
What do you mean? What exit?
“number of farms”
Worth looking into- around here anyone can buy a five acre lot for their house- plant it with avocados and declare it a farm for tax purposes.
LS @ 146
What I mean is, screw the notion of country. What can I get for myself?
Well, it’s certainly unsavory. And as a parent, it makes my blood boil. And the reason the recruiters are thick as flies here? It’s rural, jobs are scarce.
Damn, Moyers speaks truth to power!!!
GSD @ 142
We need to get back to that. The trick is not to grow only one or two things,but to grow many things.
Micro Eco Farming,it’s a good thing,lol.
How soon before a young GOP-er ends up getting awoken by the nocturnal wanderings of Chris Matthews?
UPDATE: Media Matters catches Matthews lamenting over the lack of “big, beefy” and “every-way big” guys in the Democratic presidential race.
Like Bill Richardson is built like Prince. Not to mention the sturdy and manly Rudy Giuliani and the mountain-man presence of Tom Tancredo.
-GSD
19 U.S. troops killed so far since Congress went on vacation.
No one has mentioned the fact that the military has out-sourced recruiting. The recruiters get paid for sign-ups. This, alone, tells you that they will go to any length to get that commission. Expect them to start hanging out in bars. Drinks on them.
What was that famous Bushism? “Putting your family on the table for food?”
Who the fuck are the “beefy” goopers? Romney?
“It’s hard to put food on your family.”
Not me, I just watch Chimpy and can puke all over the place.
-GSD
Jonathan @ 146
Right. The people in government are a very small group. I’ve been noticing calls into C-Span being alarmed and against what’s been happening, regardless of party. I believe the absolute majority is suspicious and wants a change, and fast. Barring some catastrophic event, I think the country will “revolve”.
or the other one … ‘the Army Recruiter and the fish can coexist in peace”
hey, did anyone read the hit piece in The Nation about the NAFTA Superhighway being a myth?
Mathews himself looks to be bout 5′8″ and a lot piggier than beefy.
I am not an expert on farm policy (or anything else) but I did
stay at a Holiday Innhear an interview with the author of “The Carnivore’s Dilemma.” It convinced me that our farm policy is completely out of whack. Subsidized corn drives down the price in Mexico, creating poverty and thus, an immigration problem. Family farms are a thing of the past. Food is not healthful, especially if it is imported from China. Etc. etc.I say this not to spark a debate on farm policy, but to point out two things.
Thing one: Farm policy effects everyone who eats, or wants to, and often in ways that are subtle and indirect.
Thing two: So many scandals and the over-whelming issue of the war, have made it virtually impossible for informed and caring citizens (like the FDL’ers) to pay attention to the mundane tasks of governing.
solai @ 154
Actually, Jayt, has exposed some of those shenanigans recently!
GSD @ 152
jayt @ 153
No one from the Bush family has been killed, wounded, or even bothered, so no one from the GOP even cares.
rwcole @ 156
Huckabee lost about a hundred pounds of beef.
Maybe Tweety looks at groins alot or something because Brownback and McCain aren’t my idea of beefcake boys.
-GSD
jayt @ 153
24 for the month of August so far!!!
Edwards played football- Romney played with himself.
carolyn urban @ 134
What part of Vermont is that? I’d applied for a professorship at Middlebury College last year that didn’t pan out. I was intrigued by the idea of moving there.
It’s the Omnivore’s Dilemma,Mitch,lol. It’s a good book,by Micheal Pollan.
Thompson’s kinda beefy- in a dead cow sorta way
willyloman @ 157
Wow. It is NOT a myth. The signs for future Route 69, are already up from Brownsville, TX, going north.
GSD @ 155
lol!!!
CTuttle @ 145
what a delight!
the whole concept of industrial farming and factory farms is literally sickening. As much as possible, everyone should avoid mass produced food. And as for national brands of meat and poultry? Don’t go there. It’s horrific.
I bet Thompson smells like old beef and not Aqua Velva by the way.
-GSD
The only beefy goper is Thompson. and he’s like a thousand years old.
Mathews needs to deal with some issues, I think.
rwcole @ 158
Matthews is actually over 6′ tall. He used to be a cop.
No offense to ex-cops, intended. (Some of my best moderators …)
CTuttle @ 140
Me too, 67-68 1/79 th Arty just south of Munsani at the base of Charlie Block.
29 casualties this month so far.
Mathews was really impressed with how much like a rock Clusterfuck is.
But now I’m off topic. So back to the subject.
My kid is 13,the thought of him going off to war in 5 years is something I cannot bear to think of. We’ve talked about recruiters in the schools(btw,defense contractors sponsor some public school science programs,just fyi. Lockheed does here,sent personal letters to my son and everything,it freaked me out a bit),how he’s not to sign anything without me seeing it and stuff.
CTuttle @ 162
I may have mentioned it in passing….
McClatchy still working on the story – heard from the reporter Monday – he’s just back from a 2 week vacation, so who knows?
Kucinich’s wife, Elizabeth, is a very impressive woman BTW. I had only seen her walking next to Kucinich, but when I listened to her being interviewed on some youtube clips, I was pretty astounded. She is really highly educated, as well as compassionate. Tweety could never handle her.
I think Matthews was a security guard- makin sure that senators were able to crawl into their cars for the drive home.
LS @ 158
I don’t know. I was ignorant until I came onto this website. (I thank Jane Hamsher, Christy, Scarecrow, Marcy, Swopa, Trex, et al each day). I am fairly well educated, but ignorant. I have learned here. I don’t know about the rest of the country.
Does msnbc realize how ridiculous Chris Matthews sounds when he opens his mouth? Does Chris? I wonder how long his contract is.
And for all those who want to return to the bizarrro world of today’s Bush presser, it’s up on CSPAN 1 at the top of the hour.
anangryoldbroad @ 180
Can you imagine how I feel with one child who happens to be male and 19 years old? I am a walking vehicle for depression.
New thread upstairs.
who was the young repug chairman who just resigned because he couldn’t resist jumping on passes out guys?
I’d like to see Tweety interview him and watch the sparks fly.
LS @ 182
Too close to an invitation to sexism. I’ll leave it at, she’s a very attractive woman.
I’m in the Mad River Valley – north central VT, near Montpelier. I highly recommend VT to anyone who can do without malls and takeout food. Slow life, a visual feast every day, great politics, and skiing. Check out colleges near Burlington – UVM, St. Michaels.
jayt @ 181
That’s how I found out about it. Through you, jayt. Thank the heavens for the internet.
carolyn urban @ 191
How is thejob market?
ccmask @ 187
((hugs)) I start tearing up just thinking of anyone’s kid being sent to Iraq or Afghanistan.
ccmask and Angryoldbroad – I’m in the same place. My kid will be 13 in a few weeks. He’s a guy who will apologize to a fern that he steps on in the woods. Going off to fight chimps war? I don’t think so.
Jake D. @ 56
[I almost forgot who I’m responding to, here.] We don’t “hate” Bush; we just don’t want him to be president anymore (not that I ever did.) Same with Cheney and Gonzales. We don’t “hate” them as persons; we just hate what they are DOING.
So, nice try baiting us with the hate speech already. The wingnuts do it enough.
Bob in HI
raven @ 178
I was in diapers back then!!! ‘91-’92 5/5 ADA, Camp Hovey! ‘86-’88 2/3 ADA (Patriot) Dexhiem, FRG!!!
Now that I’ve read BigMitch’s blog, I’ve reconsidered and would support the draft. Thanks for the insight.
depends what you do. Always plenty of nursing and teaching. Burlington is commutable from here – IBM is there. Lots of restaurants etc for skiers and tourists around here. And it’s a bookish, arty kind of area. Lots of folks telcommute too.
But past that, I’ll say this. Lots of folks make do with less here. Yes, there’s rich people. But plenty drive old cars, don’t have a lot of material goods. It’s no big thing not to make a lot.
bobschacht @ 196
Hi Bob in HI : )
carolyn urban @ 191
Academic job-hunting doesn’t go far on a send-them-your-resume basis; the way schools plan their new positions doesn’t allow it. But I’d not turn down a position in Vermont for the location, that’s for sure.
CTuttle @ 197
Aha, TDC. Our ASP was there so I made many a dusty run. I spose by the 90’s the roads were paved huh? I sent you a FB message.
uh…I actually do hate him.
Angryoldbroad- I didn’t mean to say my nervousness was worse than yours, by the way. It is so horrible and I think about it every time I look at him. He is going to college close to home and working as a draftsman and plant manager where I work. He is so smart! But I worry somuch that one day a draft will occur. If only the college Republicans who support the war would back it up with enlisting!
BRING BACK THE DRAFT!!!
Jake D. @ 199
Yea, we don’t get suckered into arguing with hate mongers! *g*
carolyn urban @ 199
That’s funny that you say that because I live in a very small town and most do very well with less. I’m just hoping the company I work for can get over the housing market slump. Project after project are going on hold and competition is heating up. Fingers crossed. Thanks for the info.
ccmask @ 203
Yeah. And this is why I can’t support a draft. I wouldn’t go fight in this war, and I don’t want my son to go either. So how can I ask anyone else to go? I don’t want anyone else to go, I want our troops to home, and I want Iraqis to get a chance to put their battered country back together.
carolyn urban @ 203
Thanks for telling the truth at least.
carolyn urban @ 203
To be honest, I’d rather you didn’t. Hate is a useless emotion, best left to right-wing talk show hosts. Besides, there’s no good to be had in giving ammunition to our troll du jour.
carolyn urban @ 206
But if there were universal service everyone would have a stake in what we do. As it stands nobody gives a shit as long as the mall stays open. ( I know, I can’t say NOBODY)
EvilDrPuma @ 208
Bush isn’t worth the energy to hate. Despise is better. It trivializes the target.
EvilDrPuma @ 210
Too late.
Universal service, no problem there. Whatever you have an aptitude for, lend a hand, couple years right out of high school.
and as for my feelings for the prez? I speak only for myself. I don’t represent anyone else here.
Well, I’m watching the Tillman story right now. That story for me underlines the lack of trust I feel towards this administration. And just like when my son was small, I don’t want him with anyone I don’t trust under their care. And believe me, we both planned for himto go into the military for the college benefits and had I felt this war was necessary and for a worthy cause, he would have signed up. This illegal war will ruin recruitment for decades, I believe. If this administration can’t drop water to a crowd in New Orleans, how can they lead our sons & daughters halfway across the globe?
ccmask @ 216
They can’t.
Jake D. @ 213
Enjoy that ammunition JakeD.
carolyn urban @ 122
And, I’ve read, a lot of them are coming home saying they were raped repeatedly by our soldiers and with commander’s knowledge. Sick, eh?
My son just completed 3 years in the Army and served in Iraq. He was offered the bonus of paying off his student loans as an incentive to join. To date, the Army has lost his paperwork twice, and he is still making the student loan payments. My son-in-law was career Army until he was severely wounded (IED) in Iraq and had to be medically retired. He had signed up for the Army’s traumatic injury insurance before he went to Iraq, but has been denied payment because they say he wasn’t injured enough (even though he has lost the use of his right arm). The Army will say anything to get you in, but don’t trust them.
rwcole @ 179
Well, that just makes it all better, doesn’t it?
well I guess I’m late to the party but the powell doctrine needs to be quoted here so we see absolutely none of those prerequisites were met;
That IDIOT Orrin Hatch is on TV protecting his big ReTHUGlican donor Stickler…He called Stickler soft=spoken…I guess he didn’t see him TRY and take down Boxer…What a LOSER
perris @ 222
Very good set rules there.
EvilDrPuma @ 30
Two things come to mind. As a parent, I would not want the person who has my son/daughters back to be a school dropout, felon or drug user. Secondly, there there have been a number of reports lately about the gangs that have infiltrated the military. Would you want your son/daughter serving inside a unit with organized gangs? This is what is happening to our military. It is a disgrace to those that join solely for a career to serve.
Jake D. @ 69
Well. Jake…if the average 28%er had that many descendants willing to serve…then there would be nowhere near the recruitment crisis that the military is currently in.
And it was interseting that the Pentagon only released one month of recruitment figures last year with a statement to the Press…back in December…the BEST MONTH. Which they ballyhooed assaying that they had finally turned around the recruitment crisis.
But if they had looked at the Annual figures, or quarterly figures, or any of the next 7 months figures (so far released) or those for the previous two years you’d see that they were simply in denial.
But did your grandchildren decide to nlist for the money…or because it was the “right thing to do”? If so, then why are all the other 28%ers so unpatriotic?
This makes sense.
Why have a draft, which gets you all kinds of negative PR, when you can just
1. Make military service a more and more lucrative-sounding opportunity, and
2. Slowly and gradually eliminate every other opportunity that exists.
Eventually, the government could prompt banks to reject loan applications from people who weren’t in the military… realtors might refuse to rent to non-military families… cops might arrest or not arrest based on whether there’s a special “military” symbol on your license…
Think about it: if, 50 years from now, it is essentially impossible for a member of the “middle”-class to make ends meet or even getting through life without joining the military and getting those special deals… isn’t that just as sure a recruiting strategy as the draft?