Jane!

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Brought up from downstairs.

Fox News dude Shepard Smith (being interviewed about a new approach for his “show” this fall):

. . . The goal is to always be able to communicate in a new and better way. There are certain kinds of stories that have never really worked well with television, stories that are just so visually deficient. We’re going to try to use this new environment that we have — new graphics and technology — to tell stories that don’t always have pictures with them. This is going to be a lot more than a new set. We’re learning a lot about ourselves from the Internet. You’ll see some of the communicators people know online on this program from time to time. We want people who have a fresh way of telling things.

Jane and Christy on Fox!! You heard it here first!!! Countering the crap Jane references in this post.

LS @ 2

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, schveetie. It really is unfair, because I just popped in and got lucky.

Ha! Bridge for sale, and they’re freaking buying it…

I hope you meant “twit.” Tits are nice.

Meanwhile ‘back at the ranch….’

And don’t forget this either.

Over and over again, Our Elite Media keep getting suckered by the same flim-flam.

They’re not getting suckered, they’re co-conspiritors.

Obama is boring me. Stumbling. Not much intonation.

MayDaze @ 8

Over and over again, Our Elite Media keep getting suckered by the same flim-flam.

They’re not getting suckered, they’re co-conspiritors.

Exactly!

One thing about Obama’s candidacy is that he speaks about the same things no matter where he is. GLT issues, needle distribution, etc.

Edwards up!

Loo Hoo. @ 9

Obama is boring me. Stumbling. Not much intonation.

It wasn’t that bad, but now Edwards!!!

I wonder why Human Rights Campaign and LOGO chose an ex-girlfriend of Fred Thompson to moderate their debate. Of course, I wonder why Melissa Etheridge is there too.

Go here and click on Watch Now Live.

Next is John Edwards. This is not a debate, it’s a series of interviews.

Jane:
Did you go see Pelosi today? Or know anyone that did? I have not heard anything about it.

Who’s the ex-goil, Teddy?

A.Citizen @ 10

MayDaze @ 8

Over and over again, Our Elite Media keep getting suckered by the same flim-flam.

They’re not getting suckered, they’re co-conspiritors.

Exactly!

Bought and payed for.

barbara @ 4

LS @ 2

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, schveetie. It really is unfair, because I just popped in and got lucky.

lol.

Actually, that was my version of “the scream”. These people drive me crazy, but when I “virtually scream”…I feel temporarily better.

TeddySanFran @ 14

I wonder why Human Rights Campaign and LOGO chose an ex-girlfriend of Fred Thompson to moderate their debate. Of course, I wonder why Melissa Etheridge is there too.

Go here and click on Watch Now Live.

Next is John Edwards. This is not a debate, it’s a series of interviews.

Ex-girlfriend? You mean Margaret Carlson?

Jane, I imagine you walking in the jungle with an American platoon circa 1967. Except one thing: If you were walking in Iraq today, you would be told what to say.

Loo Hoo. @ 16

Who’s the ex-goil, Teddy?

Margaret Carlson was one of many who Fred squired around town during his single days.

I guess I’m lost, more barking dogs on TV, sorry.

OT – why is Margaret Carlson moderating the HRC debate? Does it have anything to do with an aftermath of her affair with Fred Thompson?

TeddySanFran @ 21

Loo Hoo. @ 16

Who’s the ex-goil, Teddy?

Margaret Carlson was one of many who Fred squired around town during his single days.

I’m sorry to hear that. Says something about her taste, and speaks right to Jane’s point on this post.

Jonathan @ 20

Jane, I imagine you walking in the jungle with an American platoon circa 1967. Except one thing: If you were walking in Iraq today, you would be told what to say.

Oh yeah. Like that would work!!!!

Karl Rove will probably make mountains of money after he leaves the WH.

As to Lieberman. This man is in a class by himself.

And McCain is the joker. The fool. This pathetic little man is almost a buffoon.

Should schools talk about/ teach these issues? Edwards says yes. Same rights to adopt children, and it’s important that the friends understand what’s going on so they don’t make fun of kids with gay/lesbian parents.

July 2003: 48
July 2004: 54
July 2005: 54
July 2006: 43
July 2007: 80

24 U.S. KIA so far in August ‘07. 19 of those since Congress went on vacation.

TeddySanFran @ 14

I wonder why Human Rights Campaign and LOGO chose an ex-girlfriend of Fred Thompson to moderate their debate. Of course, I wonder why Melissa Etheridge is there too.

Go here and click on Watch Now Live.

Next is John Edwards. This is not a debate, it’s a series of interviews.

I’m w/you, TSF- moderator choice a bit off kilter. Tell you something, though, the shots of obvious couples sitting in the audience are great…

Edwards proud of Elizabeth for taking Anne Coulter on head-on.

Holy shit. Think Progress has it that Cheney was heard calling for attack on Iran.

Jonathan @ 20

Jane, I imagine you walking in the jungle with an American platoon circa 1967. Except one thing: If you were walking in Iraq today, you would be told what to say.

Jane ain’t exactly your run of the mill boonie rat.

Edwards is great tonight.

Lahoma suggests swim time. I tell her I’ll mix up a couple of the usuals and be outback in about 10.

raven @ 32

Jonathan @ 20

Jane, I imagine you walking in the jungle with an American platoon circa 1967. Except one thing: If you were walking in Iraq today, you would be told what to say.

Jane ain’t exactly your run of the mill boonie rat.

Hey, Raven. I’d take you and Jane with me in the Nam any day.

Loo Hoo. @ 27

Should schools talk about/ teach these issues? Edwards says yes. Same rights to adopt children, and it’s important that the friends understand what’s going on so they don’t make fun of kids with gay/lesbian parents.

Loo Hoo, my beloved and I have a sixteen-year-old daughter. Oddly enough, kids are way ahead of their elders in “understanding”…my brat never had any hassles from kids at school about her parents, and now that they’re older, her gay friends are more comfortable hanging out at our house than elsewhere. It was the parents of her friends who were always visibly on edge around us. I’m sure they were afraid it was contagious or something…

Cheney and Iran

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18834.html

I have spent some time in other time periods media’ none can top the lack of content and absence of reason going back to at least 1500 years. but what ever I give up. I must admit you don’t care and nothing can ever be done to to make you want to change. Or so a teacher from California said.

Edwards sez he shouldn’t have said his faith prevents him from endorsing gay marriage. Sez it makes perfect sense that people feel they are getting “separate but equal” in civil unions.

Via Atrios:

http://www.philly.com/dailynew….._9_11.html

Richmond @ 31

Holy shit. Think Progress has it that Cheney was heard calling for attack on Iran.

Not quite:

Dick Cheney several weeks ago proposed launching airstrikes at suspected training camps in Iraq run by the Quds force

Loo Hoo. @ 41

Richmond @ 31

Holy shit. Think Progress has it that Cheney was heard calling for attack on Iran.

Not quite:

Dick Cheney several weeks ago proposed launching airstrikes at suspected training camps in Iraq run by the Quds force

Whew…I was getting worried there :}

Our position in this home is to make gay marriages as legal as str8 ones. End of story.

Hey, Raven. I’d take you and Jane with me in the Nam any day.

You ever read The Things They Carried is by Tim O’Brien? One of the stories is about Mary Anne Bell -She is originally sweet and innocent when she arrives at Vietnam from Cleveland Heights, Ohio, but soon feels drawn to the culture and the thrill of war. She joins the Green Berets in their ambushes and patrols until she walks off into the jungle. (from Wikepedia)

Cordesman gives the truce with the Sunnis 6 months if there is no political deal accompanying it. The millions of Iraqi refugees, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, higher numbers of Iraqi dead, the increased Shia-Shia violence in the South, the lack of political progress of any kind, the continuing decline in basic services, forget all this because Crocker can walk without a flak jacket in Ramadi. Can he do the same in the Green Zone?

All of the “progress in Iraq” stories we are seeing are part of a PR campaign to sell a continuation of the surge when it comes up in Congress in September. ABC with this story, the NYT with the O’Hanlon/Pollack op-ed, just so many more pipes in the Mighty Wurlitzer. Who said it was dead?

Good for the kids, Shadowstalker!

speaking of elite media “suckers” (come to think of it, that IS a doobel entendray), check out the “breaking” coverage of the Utah mine situation. It is absolutely fucking sickening the way they are depicting Murray as this passionately concerned, sleepless sentinel hovering anxiously at the mouth of the mine…..along with endless sugary bullshit about “hopes” and “prayers” and “candlelight vigils”….plus Orrin Hatch and the governor of UT, whatever his name is, spouting more pious bullshit as an extra bonus at no additional charge.

You know, like this whole thing just HAPPENED. “Natural” disaster. God’s will, and all that. It’s making me SICK.

raven @ 44

Hey, Raven. I’d take you and Jane with me in the Nam any day.

You ever read The Things They Carried is by Tim O’Brien? One of the stories is about Mary Anne Bell -She is originally sweet and innocent when she arrives at Vietnam from Cleveland Heights, Ohio, but soon feels drawn to the culture and the thrill of war. She joins the Green Berets in their ambushes and patrols until she walks off into the jungle. (from Wikepedia)

My daughter (24) read this book in HS. I have too many memories.

So which is it? Sunni or Shi’a?

“Nor is it clear from the evidence the administration has presented whether Iran, which has long-standing ties to several Iraqi Shiite groups, including the Mahdi Army of radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr and the Badr Organization, which is allied with the U.S.-backed government of Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki, is a major cause of the anti-American and sectarian violence in Iraq or merely one of many. At other times, administration officials have blamed the Sunni Muslim group al Qaida in Iraq for much of the violence.”

Hugh @ 45

Cordesman gives the truce with the Sunnis 6 months if there is no political deal accompanying it. The millions of Iraqi refugees, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, higher numbers of Iraqi dead, the increased Shia-Shia violence in the South, the lack of political progress of any kind, the continuing decline in basic services, forget all this because Crocker can walk without a flak jacket in Ramadi. Can he do the same in the Green Zone?

All of the “progress in Iraq” stories we are seeing are part of a PR campaign to sell a continuation of the surge when it comes up in Congress in September. ABC with this story, the NYT with the O’Hanlon/Pollack op-ed, just so many more pipes in the Mighty Wurlitzer. Who said it was dead?

Cordesman made it seem bleaker than ever, imo

oddmommy @ 47

speaking of elite media “suckers” (come to think of it, that IS a doobel entendray), check out the “breaking” coverage of the Utah mine situation. It is absolutely fucking sickening the way they are depicting Murray as this passionately concerned, sleepless sentinel hovering anxiously at the mouth of the mine…..along with endless sugary bullshit about “hopes” and “prayers” and “candlelight vigils”….plus Orrin Hatch and the governor of UT, whatever his name is, spouting more pious bullshit as an extra bonus at no additional charge.

You know, like this whole thing just HAPPENED. “Natural” disaster. God’s will, and all that. It’s making me SICK.

Maybe Phelps will show up there if they din;t make it.

oddmommy @ 47

speaking of elite media “suckers” (come to think of it, that IS a doobel entendray), check out the “breaking” coverage of the Utah mine situation. It is absolutely fucking sickening the way they are depicting Murray as this passionately concerned, sleepless sentinel hovering anxiously at the mouth of the mine…..along with endless sugary bullshit about “hopes” and “prayers” and “candlelight vigils”….plus Orrin Hatch and the governor of UT, whatever his name is, spouting more pious bullshit as an extra bonus at no additional charge.

You know, like this whole thing just HAPPENED. “Natural” disaster. God’s will, and all that. It’s making me SICK.

what oddmommy said

oddmommy @ 47

speaking of elite media “suckers” (come to think of it, that IS a doobel entendray), check out the “breaking” coverage of the Utah mine situation. It is absolutely fucking sickening the way they are depicting Murray as this passionately concerned, sleepless sentinel hovering anxiously at the mouth of the mine…..along with endless sugary bullshit about “hopes” and “prayers” and “candlelight vigils”….plus Orrin Hatch and the governor of UT, whatever his name is, spouting more pious bullshit as an extra bonus at no additional charge.

You know, like this whole thing just HAPPENED. “Natural” disaster. God’s will, and all that. It’s making me SICK.

I want to hear from Rocky Anderson. Guy speaks truth to power.

CTuttle @ 49

So which is it? Sunni or Shi’a?

“Nor is it clear from the evidence the administration has presented whether Iran, which has long-standing ties to several Iraqi Shiite groups, including the Mahdi Army of radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr and the Badr Organization, which is allied with the U.S.-backed government of Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki, is a major cause of the anti-American and sectarian violence in Iraq or merely one of many. At other times, administration officials have blamed the Sunni Muslim group al Qaida in Iraq for much of the violence.”

Whatever Bandar Bush is having.

If people don’t like gay marriage, they shouldn’t marry someone of the same sex. Seems simple to me.

Kucinich up.

TexB, I have your cable. E-mail me your address.

TexBetsy @ 55

If people don’t like gay marriage, they shouldn’t marry someone of the same sex. Seems simple to me.

LOL!!! 8-)

Dennis!

Carlson says, “They really like you here on the Left Coast.”
Dennis: “Actually I represent mainstream America”

Jonathan @ 48

raven @ 44

Hey, Raven. I’d take you and Jane with me in the Nam any day.

You ever read The Things They Carried is by Tim O’Brien? One of the stories is about Mary Anne Bell -She is originally sweet and innocent when she arrives at Vietnam from Cleveland Heights, Ohio, but soon feels drawn to the culture and the thrill of war. She joins the Green Berets in their ambushes and patrols until she walks off into the jungle. (from Wikepedia)

My daughter (24) read this book in HS. I have too many memories.

I hear ya. I was lucky enough to meet him and hang out many years ago. Really good dude. The story about his girlfriend in grade school is wonderful. She gets leukemia and dies but he keeps her alive by writing about her, just like his buddies.

As to hetero marriages. They’re pretty successful. A little over half of them fail. And God knows how many of the other 1/2 are truly happy unions.

Kucinich is getting into the love issue. Not even a close issue. He has the = sign in his office in a heart. He stands for real equality.

what was the statistic rice removed from the reports?

wasn’t that civilian causualties?

the “fourth estate” has been turned into the “wealthy estate”

Carlson: “Congressman, you are so evolved for a member of Congress”

Oklahoma kiddo @ 61

As to hetero marriages. They’re pretty successful. A little over half of them fail. And God knows how many of the other 1/2 are truly happy unions.

Why should the same-sexers be denied the same ‘pleasures’??? ;-)

raven @ 60

Jonathan @ 48

My daughter (24) read this book in HS. I have too many memories.

I hear ya. I was lucky enough to meet him and hang out many years ago. Really good dude. The story about his girlfriend in grade school is wonderful. She gets leukemia and dies but he keeps her alive by writing about her, just like his buddies.

Raven, do you think the troops in Iraq have the same connection with each other as the troops in Nam?

raven @ 51

oddmommy @ 47

speaking of elite media “suckers” (come to think of it, that IS a doobel entendray), check out the “breaking” coverage of the Utah mine situation. It is absolutely fucking sickening the way they are depicting Murray as this passionately concerned, sleepless sentinel hovering anxiously at the mouth of the mine…..along with endless sugary bullshit about “hopes” and “prayers” and “candlelight vigils”….plus Orrin Hatch and the governor of UT, whatever his name is, spouting more pious bullshit as an extra bonus at no additional charge.

You know, like this whole thing just HAPPENED. “Natural” disaster. God’s will, and all that. It’s making me SICK.

Maybe Phelps will show up there if they din;t make it.

Thought I read he/they were planning to. WTF is up with that?

Out on a limb here.

I believe that there may have been underground “testing” in Caliente, Nevada area on the during the times and the days that seismic activity occurred in Utah. I believe that it is possible that tectonic activity spread up into Utah, perhaps causing the collapse. I know it sounds out there, but I have been checking the quake activity. If there is a cover-up, it could be about “testing” in Nevada. Just saying.

Hi Betsy, Loo Hoo. Glad you got your stuff back!

I just dont know how to say sorry for busting in. but theold guy is near dead,why does hecare

Jonathan @ 66

raven @ 60

I hear ya. I was lucky enough to meet him and hang out many years ago. Really good dude. The story about his girlfriend in grade school is wonderful. She gets leukemia and dies but he keeps her alive by writing about her, just like his buddies.

Raven, do you think the troops in Iraq have the same connection with each other as the troops in Nam?

Certainly!

Hugh @ 45

Cordesman gives the truce with the Sunnis 6 months if there is no political deal accompanying it. The millions of Iraqi refugees, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, higher numbers of Iraqi dead, the increased Shia-Shia violence in the South, the lack of political progress of any kind, the continuing decline in basic services, forget all this because Crocker can walk without a flak jacket in Ramadi. Can he do the same in the Green Zone?

All of the “progress in Iraq” stories we are seeing are part of a PR campaign to sell a continuation of the surge when it comes up in Congress in September. ABC with this story, the NYT with the O’Hanlon/Pollack op-ed, just so many more pipes in the Mighty Wurlitzer. Who said it was dead?

I saw this worrisome article in the SF Chronicle today about the stress Iraqi refugees are putting on Syria’s society, economy and infrastructure…not to mention bringing along the same sectarian strife they left behind in Iraq. It sounds like the whole region could implode.

Hugh and Jonathan – As to your discussion below, the US Constitution references habeas corpus in the portion describing the Legislative function, Article One, Section 9, also known as the “Suspension Clause”. Somewhat curiously, the language merely indicates that

“The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.”

However, it is clear from numerous background resources documenting the intent of the framers that they considered the writ to be an inherent affirmative right.

argosfalcon @ 70

I just dont know how to say sorry for busting in. but theold guy is near dead,why does hecare

We’re all busting in every time we speak and isn’t that wonderful that we feel free to do that.

Hi doodle!

LS, I think you’re on to something…

This is the best performance on the part of Kucinich I’ve ever seen. Such passion tonight!

Cordesman is on C-SPAN 1, now.

National Sec.analyst for ABC news.
National Sec. Asst. to McCain.

Mr. Oilman…

Melissa asks about medical marijuana raids in California. Dennis sez compassion requires that our Justice Dept be compassionate in its response.

Drugs are a medical and health issue, not a criminal justice issue.

Only candidate for single payer not for profit, so people with HIV/AIDS will not need to worry about their care and medicine.

Raven, do you think the troops in Iraq have the same connection with each other as the troops in Nam?

I can’t imagine they don’t. Any “real” account has them talking about how what they really care about is their buddies. All this bullshit about the “mission” is just so much noise. IMHO I was the first babysitter of a grunt who is on his way home for R&R next week from the 2nd ID in Ramadi. I’m hoping to get a better sense from him. He doesn’t say anything of substance in his calls home so it’ll be interesting. He is a college grad who joined up to be an em in the infantry but he’s thinking about become a rotor-head now.

I sooo love DK’s philosophy!!!

argosfalcon @ 70

I just dont know how to say sorry for busting in. but theold guy is near dead,why does hecare

I don’t know but it’s clear he does. Peace, amigo.

Loo Hoo. @ 75

Hi doodle!

LS, I think you’re on to something…

This is the best performance on the part of Kucinich I’ve ever seen. Such passion tonight!

Have you watched the videos of his wife? She’s quite something!

“Being president of the united states means you have to do the right thing the first time.”

Rack time for old mofo’s on the east coast, AMF dogs.

Edwards made a lot of sense. Kucinich up now & making even more. Called a kid & his bf I tutored for their GEDs over @ Covenant House- they beat me to it- started watching the “debate” before I did…

Tell everyone we are winning, or there are no cocktail weenies for you, David Gregory!

Whereabouts is this debate by the way? Who is carrying it?

Cordesman challenged the Lancet study and charged that the Lancet study was published to effect the upcoming midterm elections… What a jerk. What a shill. The Lancet is extremely respected the world over for its peer-reviewed studies. Nothing gets in The Lancet without thorough peer review.

I call major neocon BS, major shill BS on Cordesman.

So there!!!

WOO. KUCINICH kicking MAJOR ASS on the Logoonline Presidential Forum.

raven @ 78

Raven, do you think the troops in Iraq have the same connection with each other as the troops in Nam?

I can’t imagine they don’t. Any “real” account has them talking about how what they really care about is their buddies. All this bullshit about the “mission” is just so much noise. IMHO I was the first babysitter of a grunt who is on his way home for R&R next week from the 2nd ID in Ramadi. I’m hoping to get a better sense from him. He doesn’t say anything of substance in his calls home so it’ll be interesting. He is a college grad who joined up to be an em in the infantry but he’s thinking about become a rotor-head now.

If he’s 2nd ID in Iraq, he’s a stryker team member! I’m sure he’ll have plenty to say in person!!!

Twain @ 74

argosfalcon @ 70

I just dont know how to say sorry for busting in. but theold guy is near dead,why does hecare

We’re all busting in every time we speak and isn’t that wonderful that we feel free to do that.

I’m more like hit-and-run tonight, too much multi-tasking. Think I’ll concentrate on the task at hand (chicken in wine with garlic and lots of butter, green beans fresh picked from the yard and fettucini in Alfredo sauce). Back in a little bit…

Hugh @ 86

Whereabouts is this debate by the way? Who is carrying it?

LOGO-TV and here. Click on Watch Now Live.

Marie Roget @ 84

Edwards made a lot of sense. Kucinich up now & making even more. Called a kid & his bf I tutored for their GEDs over @ Covenant House- they beat me to it- started watching the “debate” before I did…

Ah, a GED tutor! I’ve got one and my dissertation was life histories of a group of GED grads here in Georgia. Keep up the great work.

Night, Raven, I’ll go back and read your material later. Thanks.

No, LS, I’ve not seen/heard his wife. Does she wear mermaid costumes?

Jacqrat @ 88

WOO. KUCINICH kicking MAJOR ASS on the Logoonline Presidential Forum.

Best interview so far!!!

CTuttle @ 89

raven @ 78

Raven, do you think the troops in Iraq have the same connection with each other as the troops in Nam?

I can’t imagine they don’t. Any “real” account has them talking about how what they really care about is their buddies. All this bullshit about the “mission” is just so much noise. IMHO I was the first babysitter of a grunt who is on his way home for R&R next week from the 2nd ID in Ramadi. I’m hoping to get a better sense from him. He doesn’t say anything of substance in his calls home so it’ll be interesting. He is a college grad who joined up to be an em in the infantry but he’s thinking about become a rotor-head now.

If he’s 2nd ID in Iraq, he’s a stryker team member! I’m sure he’ll have plenty to say in person!!!

Yep, 1-9.

raven @ 78

Raven, do you think the troops in Iraq have the same connection with each other as the troops in Nam?

I can’t imagine they don’t. Any “real” account has them talking about how what they really care about is their buddies. All this bullshit about the “mission” is just so much noise. IMHO I was the first babysitter of a grunt who is on his way home for R&R next week from the 2nd ID in Ramadi. I’m hoping to get a better sense from him. He doesn’t say anything of substance in his calls home so it’ll be interesting. He is a college grad who joined up to be an em in the infantry but he’s thinking about become a rotor-head now.

Raven, take good care, bro.

Look Ma, no Flak Jacket. Yes indeedy, Jane!

Wait for it…the Repug lying-sack-of-shite spin machine is indeed ramping up for September. Just as if Junya were getting elected again (Arrrrrrgggghhhh!).

They’re primin’ the pump for the ol’ bait-and-switcheroo.

The play will be that the Surge is indeed working ’cause General Davy Crockett Petraeus says so and we be standing up without fear in all those Baghdad neighberhoods.

The switch you ask?

Follow the bouncing ball:

US Troop Surge x Iraqi Political Compromise = Suceess/Failure.

How do you and I measure this?

US Troop Surge x Iraqi Political Compromise (000.00) = Failure (000.00). ‘Cause in your and my math, X times Zero is still feckin’ Zero!

But Junya, Deadeye and all their toadies in the MSM and “Think(?) Tanks” want to do the math Rover’s way. To wit:

US Troop Surge x Iraqi Political Compromise = Suceess.

Guess we don’t count, doncha know?

wangdangdoodle @ 90

Twain @ 74

We’re all busting in every time we speak and isn’t that wonderful that we feel free to do that.

I’m more like hit-and-run tonight, too much multi-tasking. Think I’ll concentrate on the task at hand (chicken in wine with garlic and lots of butter, green beans fresh picked from the yard and fettucini in Alfredo sauce). Back in a little bit…

Wish you had not done that = now I’m starving. :)

LS @ 87

Cordesman challenged the Lancet study and charged that the Lancet study was published to effect the upcoming midterm elections… What a jerk. What a shill. The Lancet is extremely respected the world over for its peer-reviewed studies. Nothing gets in The Lancet without thorough peer review.
I call major neocon BS, major shill BS on Cordesman.
So there!!!

He should recuse himself from any medical treatment peer reviewed through the Lancet. Its obvious they are untrustworthy.

This sequential, one-at-a-time interview suits DK better.

Kucinich is dynamite!

Loudest, longest applause yet. Hoots and hollars!

Loo Hoo. @ 93

Night, Raven, I’ll go back and read your material later. Thanks.

No, LS, I’ve not seen/heard his wife. Does she wear mermaid costumes?

Check this out for starters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_FcaRM0oLk

All republicans invited to a similar venue, and all declined. The fossils.

Pity who has to follow him.

Gravel, Richardson, and Clinton after the break.

Ooh, big ole hug from rock star Melissa to rock star DK!!! ;-)

I know September will bring us more spin from the MSM whores to aid bushco in his case to continue the illegal war in Iraq. I am shocked they would attempt to pull this mile high pile of steaming shit passed joe six pack. The people who buy this should literally not be allow to consume oxygen.

Evening all
Was wondering if anyone here thinks that a faction of the GOP would like a Dem to win the White House next term? I’m thinking that since Bush never factored in an exit strategy, and that the necessary exit will be a hell storm for so many. Pugs don’t wan’t to take the responsibility for their own folly, and will want to play the blame game for unraveling their mess.

Does anyone know where I can get a ‘Sheehan for Senator’ bumper sticker?

LS @ 87

Cordesman challenged the Lancet study and charged that the Lancet study was published to effect the upcoming midterm elections… What a jerk. What a shill. The Lancet is extremely respected the world over for its peer-reviewed studies. Nothing gets in The Lancet without thorough peer review.

I call major neocon BS, major shill BS on Cordesman.

So there!!!

I quoted Cordesman earlier. You have to realize that Cordesman is a military analyst. You have to take these guys with several grains of salt. They can say some interesting things in areas where they have some expertise. However, his understanding of politics is limited. And it is rather typical for someone like him to be critical of a report written by a civilian and using methodologies he knows squat about.

raven @ 92

Marie Roget @ 84

Edwards made a lot of sense. Kucinich up now & making even more. Called a kid & his bf I tutored for their GEDs over @ Covenant House- they beat me to it- started watching the “debate” before I did…

Ah, a GED tutor! I’ve got one and my dissertation was life histories of a group of GED grads here in Georgia. Keep up the great work.

Back at you, babe. I’ve worn a lot of hats in my career- tutoring has always been a particularly good fit.

GED tutoring @ Covenant House was & is tough but so rewarding (just in a way they don’t tax)…

barbara @ 3

Brought up from downstairs.

Fox News dude Shepard Smith (being interviewed about a new approach for his “show” this fall):

. …We’re learning a lot about ourselves from the Internet.

You mean Shep googled himself and found out what he was doing last Sat. night?

MayDaze @ 8

Over and over again, Our Elite Media keep getting suckered by the same flim-flam.

They’re not getting suckered, they’re co-conspiritors.

Co-conspirators is letting the death-merchants among the media off easy. They have as much blood on their hands as Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld, et al…

Friedman, Miller, Broder, Gordon, Hiatt.. they bear the guilt and stain of war criminals, promoting the slaughter as surely as WHIG, PNAC and the other foul and rotten neo-con traitors.

May they share the same jail cell for eternity.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 43

Our position in this home is to make gay marriages as legal as str8 ones. End of story.

OKK – was it Cherokee Nation that had this out at the tribal council level (last year, I think)?

Thanks, LS. She’s a youngster, but very passionate too.

Gravel up.

Gravel thanks NYC and SF gays for pressuring HRCampaign to let him into this debate.

Loo Hoo. @ 114

Thanks, LS. She’s a youngster, but very passionate too.

Gravel up.

Does anyone know why he was not at the last debate?

Cordesman: We need from 0.667 to 1.0 Friedman Unit of surginess.

Correction- Sheehan for Speaker bumper sticker.

Milan River @ 118

Correction- Sheehan for Speaker bumper sticker.

Sheehan for Congress. She certainly won’t be Speaker should she defeat Nancy in 11/08. The caucus would select a new Speaker.

I don’t know, Twain. Scheduling conflict? I can’t imagine him not showing if possible. Now Biden…

Thanks Teddy

Etheridge grinning broadly at Gravel’s replies.

I wish they would talk about other GLBT issues than all-marriage alla time. There are serious employment issues, among others.

TeddySanFran @ 119

Milan River @ 118

Correction- Sheehan for Speaker bumper sticker.

Sheehan for Congress. She certainly won’t be Speaker should she defeat Nancy in 11/08. The caucus would select a new Speaker.

aw, Teddy… let us pups have our dreams.. ;)

In my parallel universe, where a progressive party rules…..

Frank33 @ 117

Cordesman: We need from 0.667 to 1.0 Friedman Unit of surginess.

But what I got from listening to him was he actually laid out just what it is he and his ilk are worried about as far as what’s going to happen in Iraq and the greater region. It wasn’t a lot of falderal or spin. So I considered the source as I listened to him, but I’m glad I took the time to.

I better understand “them”

Hugh @ 109

LS @ 87

Cordesman challenged the Lancet study and charged that the Lancet study was published to effect the upcoming midterm elections… What a jerk. What a shill. The Lancet is extremely respected the world over for its peer-reviewed studies. Nothing gets in The Lancet without thorough peer review.

I call major neocon BS, major shill BS on Cordesman.

So there!!!

I quoted Cordesman earlier. You have to realize that Cordesman is a military analyst. You have to take these guys with several grains of salt. They can say some interesting things in areas where they have some expertise. However, his understanding of politics is limited. And it is rather typical for someone like him to be critical of a report written by a civilian and using methodologies he knows squat about.

Yes, I understand, except that The Lancet is one of the world’s most esteemed, peer-reviewed medical publications, so his dispute of their methodologies and findings is quite simply, ludicrous.

Gravel says Hillary, Edwards and Obama are playing it safe.

Did we go for gay marriage too soon? Gravel thinks Barney Franks is the smartest person in congress, bar none. When people tell you can’t be married, they are telling you that you are a second class citizen. Not so.

TeddySanFran @ 123

I wish they would talk about other GLBT issues than all-marriage alla time. There are serious employment issues, among others.

Whaa… there are other issues??? ;-)

TeddySanFran @ 123

I wish they would talk about other GLBT issues than all-marriage alla time. There are serious employment issues, among others.

agreed. yet the marriage debate is symptomatic
of much of the hot-potato bs on all issues.
State punts to Federal and v.v. Both have
responsibility. *blergh*

TeddySanFran @ 123

I wish they would talk about other GLBT issues than all-marriage alla time. There are serious employment issues, among others.

Kucinich did.

Loo Hoo. @ 120

I don’t know, Twain. Scheduling conflict? I can’t imagine him not showing if possible. Now Biden…

Per Crooks & Liars his campaign just flat f*ck’d up and didn’t get the proper paperwork in on time.

Loo Hoo. @ 130

TeddySanFran @ 123

I wish they would talk about other GLBT issues than all-marriage alla time. There are serious employment issues, among others.

Kucinich did.

Kucinich and Gravel tell the truth.

Favorite Urvashi Vaid quote re: coalition
building: “Their issues are our issues”
ymmv, but it’s a winner…

It had been suggested that Cordesman was sane. Now that I have seen him I can say, NEO-CON WAR PIG!

So, I was looking around for a report on the “surge” I remember reading a few months ago and happened to run across this again …

[snark]As Shrub says: Be ‘fraid, be very ‘fraid, the tearrists are everwhere[/snark]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl….._watc.html

Tim Sparapani of the ACLU said

“It grows seemingly without control or limitation,” said ACLU senior legislative counsel Tim Sparapani of the terrorism watch list. Sparapani called the 509,000 figure “stunning.”

“If we have 509,000 names on that list, the watch list is virtually useless,” he told ABC News. “You’ll be capturing innocent individuals with no connection to crime or terror.”

TeddySanFran @ 119

Milan River @ 118

Correction- Sheehan for Speaker bumper sticker.

Sheehan for Congress. She certainly won’t be Speaker should she defeat Nancy in 11/08. The caucus would select a new Speaker.

Yup.

Gravel says we should be able to go to a liquor store and buy marijuana!

I would put Sheehan’s bumper sticker on my car even though I live in Ohio. Unseating Pelosi for anothe Dem is not local for me. It needs to be a national imperative.

Loo Hoo. @ 137

Gravel says we should be able to go to a liquor store and buy marijuana!

That is somewhat extreme.

Loo Hoo. @ 137

Gravel says we should be able to go to a liquor store and buy marijuana!

Be right back.

TeddySanFran @ 105

Pity who has to follow him.

Gravel, Richardson, and Clinton after the break.

this is so aggravating…I am trying to listen online and cant get through a whole sentence without it cutting out. i tried on cable, but I guess it is subscription cuz it is there but I don’t have access.

any suggestions?

Milan River @ 138

I would put Sheehan’s bumper sticker on my car even though I live in Ohio. Unseating Pelosi for anothe Dem is not local for me. It needs to be a national imperative.

Yeah!

“Come out of the closet, please”.
Jesus. Thank you Mike Gravel.

Freedom. I want Freedom. I don’t want to be oppressed.

Sorry, rx. No techie skills here.

Milan River @ 138

I would put Sheehan’s bumper sticker on my car even though I live in Ohio. Unseating Pelosi for anothe Dem is not local for me. It needs to be a national imperative.

You would like to waste all those years of experience and our first FEMALE speaker? I would not. I send a ranting e-mail to Pelosi almost every day and I don’t agree with whole bunch of stuff, but I certainly don’t want to throw her out.

Freedom. I want Freedom.
Somebody ought to write a song.

Richardson sez the nation is on the path to full inclusion. He would lead the nation on civil unions with full marriage rights and redress injustices of the past, like DADT.

Loo Hoo. @ 147

Freedom. I want Freedom.
Somebody ought to write a song.

Hendrix did.

Loo Hoo. @ 137

Gravel says we should be able to go to a liquor store and buy marijuana!

We could in my old neighborhood, but only behind the store…

Milan River @ 108

Evening all
Was wondering if anyone here thinks that a faction of the GOP would like a Dem to win the White House next term? I’m thinking that since Bush never factored in an exit strategy…

Not just a faction. This is the only Exit Strategy Junya is planning. His own.

Junya is desparate not to be known forever as the Preznitwit who lost this war.

Junya and Deadeye are stalling for time to pass this debacle on to the next White House occupant ’cause they know it will be a Democrat.

Junya’s lifelong motivation is to avoid being caught. And he thinks by passing this baton on to the next Prez, the shite ain’t gonna stick to him.

Junya has always been dumb that way.

Listening to the HRC forum. Can somebody tell me what “DOMA” is?

Is it just me, or does this interview format serve as a massive leveler of the playing field for such “lesser” candidates as Kucinich and Gravel? Or is it the subject and audience? A combination of the two? Your thoughts?

Richardson up. He is saying the same things in the same voice. He thinks the president that knows how to lead and get things done. The country is moving, and president needs to guide.

defense of muppets marriage act

neurophius @ 152

Listening to the HRC forum. Can somebody tell me what “DOMA” is?

Defense of Marriage Act

Freedom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AduRG9NSesU

Twain the answer is YES.
I did not vote for all Dems to get the first woman Speaker. I voted for all Dems to clean house and get rid of the stink in DC.

Loo Hoo. @ 147

Freedom. I want Freedom.
Somebody ought to write a song.

How ’bout Derek Trucks doing I Wish I Knew (How it Would Feel to be Free)

Loo Hoo. @ 147

Freedom. I want Freedom.
Somebody ought to write a song.

been done:
Richie Havens Freedom

neurophius @ 152

Listening to the HRC forum. Can somebody tell me what “DOMA” is?

Defense Of Marriage Act.

Has anyone seen Alfred? He’s been AWOL from his Ravings blog, too.

Mad Dogs @ 151

Milan River @ 108

Evening all
Was wondering if anyone here thinks that a faction of the GOP would like a Dem to win the White House next term? I’m thinking that since Bush never factored in an exit strategy…

Not just a faction. This is the only Exit Strategy Junya is planning. His own.

Junya is desparate not to be known forever as the Preznitwit who lost this war.

Junya and Deadeye are stalling for time to pass this debacle on to the next White House occupant ’cause they know it will be a Democrat.

Junya’s lifelong motivation is to avoid being caught. And he thinks by passing this baton on to the next Prez, the shite ain’t gonna stick to him.

Junya has always been dumb that way.

You have that exactly right.

Milan River @ 158

Twain the answer is YES.
I did not vote for all Dems to get the first woman Speaker. I voted for all Dems to clean house and get rid of the stink in DC.

Okay, but I’ll give you 2 words – Ralph Nader – be careful what you wish for.

Though we don’t smoke anything, we’d much rather be around a pot smoker than a drunk.

N=1 @ 162

Has anyone seen Alfred? He’s been AWOL from his Ravings blog, too.

I’m worried. I hope he’s on vacation. :{

N=1 @ 162

Has anyone seen Alfred? He’s been AWOL from his Ravings blog, too.

Betsy said he had to work for two weeks, a week ago. I miss him too. Hope his dad is okay.

GordonM @ 163

Mad Dogs @ 151

Not just a faction. This is the only Exit Strategy Junya is planning. His own.

Junya is desparate not to be known forever as the Preznitwit who lost this war.

Junya and Deadeye are stalling for time to pass this debacle on to the next White House occupant ’cause they know it will be a Democrat.

Junya’s lifelong motivation is to avoid being caught. And he thinks by passing this baton on to the next Prez, the shite ain’t gonna stick to him.

Junya has always been dumb that way.

You have that exactly right.

I hope so, because there are those folks out there licking up the whole surge is starting to work line.

neurophius @ 152

Listening to the HRC forum. Can somebody tell me what “DOMA” is?

Defense of Marriage Act

I like Gore and I like Kucinich…lahoma.

GordonM @ 159

Loo Hoo. @ 147

Freedom. I want Freedom.
Somebody ought to write a song.

How ’bout Derek Trucks doing I Wish I Knew (How it Would Feel to be Free)

Or this beautiful version by Joan Baez:

Joan Baez- Oh Freedom (1966)

LS @ 126

Hugh @ 109

I quoted Cordesman earlier. You have to realize that Cordesman is a military analyst. You have to take these guys with several grains of salt. They can say some interesting things in areas where they have some expertise. However, his understanding of politics is limited. And it is rather typical for someone like him to be critical of a report written by a civilian and using methodologies he knows squat about.

Yes, I understand, except that The Lancet is one of the world’s most esteemed, peer-reviewed medical publications, so his dispute of their methodologies and findings is quite simply, ludicrous.

We agree about the Lancet study. My point about Cordesman is that his description of the situation in Iraq is fairly good. But like so many military analysts, he proceeds to draw exactly the wrong conclusions. This strategic patience that he is trying to sell I find particularly irksome since it ignores that we have been patient with one failure after another in Iraq for nearly 4 1/2 years. After that length of time, I do not see how any withdrawal can be called precipitate. But getting generals, Presidents, and military out of a war is a lot like taking away a favorite toy from a child. They just don’t want to give it up and will try to hold on to it as long as they can.

Richardson playing the pragmatist.
“doing what is achievable”

Oklahoma kiddo @ 170

I like Gore and I like Kucinich…lahoma.

Me 3

N=1 @ 162

Has anyone seen Alfred? He’s been AWOL from his Ravings blog, too.

On an earlier thread today, TexBetsy said she’d chatted with him a couple of days ago and he was doing fine…

From the McClatchy article:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18834.html

“Cheney, who’s long been skeptical of diplomacy with Iran, argued for military action if hard new evidence emerges of Iran’s complicity in supporting anti-American forces in Iraq; for example, catching a truckload of fighters or weapons crossing into Iraq from Iran, one official said.”

—

Weren’t the British caught ‘jihading’ in Basra?

Is this going to be the ‘Gulf of Tonkin’ incident that leads us to War in Iran?

How hard would it be for Cheney to rustle-up a truck full of IEDs and unsuspecting Iraqis wearing Quds uniforms?

N=1 @ 162

Has anyone seen Alfred? He’s been AWOL from his Ravings blog, too.

He’s fine. Taking care of his dad and working.

Joe Solmonese asks about immigration. Richardson sez his civil unions would include bi-national couples wanting to immigrate to the US under marriage sponsorship.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 170

I like Gore and I like Kucinich…lahoma.

I thought you two were taking a dip out back? ;-)

Richardson bombs.

Richardson sez homosexuality is a choice. Melissa gives him another chance at the question. He doesn’t get it.

Richardson wont answer a nature vs nuture question.

Richardson just said – oh, never mind, get the hook…

I kind of don’t want to be careful to keep Pelosi in office and to continue to support her wimpy nothingness. I do not like it when the reality does not meet the promise.

Loo Hoo and LS

Hear My Train Comin’ – Jimi Hendrix (incredible clip!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOnju6P87IE

TeddySanFran @ 181

Richardson sez homosexuality is a choice. Melissa gives him another chance at the question. He doesn’t get it.

How dumb ! Can he really not understand this?

Richardson is losing it. He is either very uncomfortable or has lost his way on his talking points.

TeddySanFran @ 181

Richardson sez homosexuality is a choice. Melissa gives him another chance at the question. He doesn’t get it.

even if it is a choice, that’s called the
right to self-determination (and informed
consent between two adults)

Say a prayer for Pavarotti.

ME changes subject tactfully to bark beetles.

Frank33 @ 134

It had been suggested that Cordesman was sane. Now that I have seen him I can say, NEO-CON WAR PIG!

Yep.

On big-time wingnut welfare.

Total war industry courtesan.

Bought and paid for. Expensive suits.

“Professor Cordesman has previously served as national security assistant to Senator John McCain of the Senate Armed Services Committee, as director of intelligence assessment in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, as civilian assistant to the deputy secretary of defense, and as director of policy and planning for resource applications in the Department of Energy. He has also served in numerous other government positions, including in the State Department and on NATO International Staff, and he has had numerous foreign assignments, including posts in Lebanon, Egypt, and Iran, with extensive work in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf.

Anthony H. Cordesman holds the Arleigh A. Burke Chair in Strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). Cordesman’s expertise is in “Middle East and South Asia security issues; U.S. national security; lessons of modern war; defense budgeting; defense intelligence; and military balance.”[1]

Cordesman is “also a national security analyst for ABC News, and his television commentary has been featured prominently during the Gulf War, Desert Fox, the conflict in Kosovo, and the fighting in Afghanistan

“During his time at CSIS, Professor Cordesman has been director of the Gulf Net Assessment Project and the Gulf in Transition study, and principal investigator of the CSIS Homeland Defense Project. He has led studies on national missile defense, asymmetric warfare and weapons of mass destruction, and critical infrastructure protection. He has also written on U.S. defense programs and force transformation, the Western military balance, the nuclear balance, arms control in the Arab-Israeli military balance, the economic stability of North Africa, the Asian military balance, and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

and what is CSIS?

The Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) is a private organization headquartered in Washington, D.C. According to its web site, it has “been dedicated to providing world leaders with strategic insights on — and policy solutions to — current and emerging global issues. CSIS is led by John J. Hamre, formerly deputy secretary of defense, who has been president and CEO since April 2000.” [1]

Originally CSIS sprung out from Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service, and many of principals were also faculty members at the university. For some time CSIS had an office on the Georgetown campus. Several of the principals were “Cold Warriors” and made a little industry out of finding “communist influence” around the world. During the war against Nicaragua, CSIS produced several documents “proving” a communist plot, etc. For many years, CSIS was also seen as a think tank where right-wing “officials-in-waiting” could wait until their next appointment in government.

CSIS is dominated by members with strong ties to the government and private industry. Sam Nunn, CSIS Chairman of the Board of Trustees, served as U.S. Senator from Georgia for 24 years (1972-1996) and is currently on the boards of top US corporations and a law firm.

… “one of those ephemeral constellations into which the luminaries of the American political establishment frequently arrange themselves in order to encourage policy to navigate by their lights: Madeleine K. Albright, Harold Brown, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Frank Charles Carlucci III, Warren Christopher, William Sebastian Cohen, Bob Dole, Lawrence Sidney Eagleburger, Stuart Eizenstat, Alexander Haig, Lee H. Hamilton, John Hamre, Sam Nunn, Paul O’Neill, Charles S. Robb, William Roth, and James Rodney Schlesinger. That makes four former Secretaries of State, one former National Security Adviser, two former Secretaries for Defense, a former Secretary of the Treasury, a former Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, a former Director of the CIA, and three Senators”; … signatories to a May 2003 Declaration which effectively proposed, in the opinion of one commentator, that “the states of the European Union, which are among the richest and most powerful states in the world, should invite US government officials to attend their highest-level legislative and policy-making meetings, in order that these officials can ensure that the Europeans do not pursue policies which are independent of, or disapproved by, the American government.”[2]
Contents

[Thanks to SourceWatch, PRWatch, John Stauber, and Sheldon Rampton for their work!]

Milan River @ 184

I kind of don’t want to be careful to keep Pelosi in office and to continue to support her wimpy nothingness. I do not like it when the reality does not meet the promise.

I hear you but if the vote is split would you rather have a Republic?

radiofreewill @ 185

Loo Hoo and LS

Hear My Train Comin’ – Jimi Hendrix (incredible clip!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOnju6P87IE

Yeah baby!

Carlson is drilling down on nature/nurture. Should rights be taken away since you can change? richardson sez it’s not a matter of preferences, it’s a matter of equality.

Welch told several people at GE that the conversation with Rove convinced him that a Bush presidency would ultimately result in billions of dollars of additional profits for General Electric. Welch believed that it was his responsibility to operate in the best interest of GE shareholders, and that now meant using the full power of the world’s biggest corporation to get Bush into the White House.

Toward that end, Welch said that he would finally deal with a longstanding grievance of his: the ludicrous idea that news organizations should be allowed to operate in conflict with the best interests of the corporations that own them.

[snip]

In general, he saw corporate news organizations as untapped political resources that should be freed from the burden of objectivity.

Specifically, NBC News was an asset owned by the shareholders of General Electric. It existed to make profits and to serve the interests of those who owned GE stock. Period.

Anything else, Welch told associates, was “liberal bullshit”.

In 1988, NBC News president Lawrence Grossman insisted to Welch that news was a public trust and should not be subjected to the same pressure to make profits that was applied to other GE units. Welch fired him.

Sorry for the length of the comment, but thought it on topic.

Drilling down…how appropriate. That is what we have to do.

Drug use is about cultural norms and how these are reflected in the law. Nicotine is highly addictive but tobacco is not illegal. Marijuana isn’t that addictive but is illegal. Alcohol is legal but can be abused. Prescription opiates and tranquillizers same story. If things had fallen out differently in our history, it could be tobacco that was outlawed and marijuana that wasn’t.

Milan River @ 184

I kind of don’t want to be careful to keep Pelosi in office and to continue to support her wimpy nothingness. I do not like it when the reality does not meet the promise.

Me too! I’d be happy with one of Jane’s poodles as Speaker if the doggie would stand up and confront this Repug scourge.

Agreed, Hugh. It can change.

Hillary up!

Hillary now.

Hill Time!!!

Senator Clinton exactly where were you during the 1992 gay rights march on Washington and why was that engagement more important?

East seems west and west seems east lately. The question is does Nancy care enough not to allow the Dems to go back to being relegated to basement meeting rooms again.

Joe asks about DADT. Since you’ve been on Armed Services since 2003, why haven’t you introduced legislation to repeal it?

Hill: Didn’t want to lose in a GOP Congress to a GOP Prez. Wants to do it as Prez.

Why hasn’t Hill changed the DADT, being on the Armed Services Committee.

Republican control. When we get a dem President-which can’t happen soon enough for me- we can make these changes.

She remembers a vet in the audience, Alva, and he received a purple heart. (She is so smart!)

Calling out Eric Alva, first troop wounded in Iraq.

Freedom? Ritchie Havens, man!

So this is on TV too, or just the web?

CTuttle @ 179

Oklahoma kiddo @ 170

I like Gore and I like Kucinich…lahoma.

I thought you two were taking a dip out back? ;-)

She did, I never made it. She’s wanting a root beer float. She’s going to make ‘em. I was supposed to make a couple of maragaritas for the pool side. She changed her mind. As to the pool, I’m almost there. And she’ll be along too. ;0)

raven @ 44

Hey, Raven. I’d take you and Jane with me in the Nam any day.

You ever read The Things They Carried is by Tim O’Brien? One of the stories is about Mary Anne Bell -She is originally sweet and innocent when she arrives at Vietnam from Cleveland Heights, Ohio, but soon feels drawn to the culture and the thrill of war. She joins the Green Berets in their ambushes and patrols until she walks off into the jungle. (from Wikepedia)

Tim o’Brien taught me a whole lot in his writing

Judge on conduct, not status. Intent debates back in 1993. Beginning to change, generals coming around. Colin Powell changed his mind since then. We’ll get it done.

Positive about civil unions, apparently against marriage. We believe in equality. In favor of civil unions with full equality. States have jusisdiction over marriage.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 209

CTuttle @ 179

I thought you two were taking a dip out back? ;-)

She did, I never made it. She’s wanting a root beer float. She’s going to make ‘em. I was supposed to make a couple of maragaritas for the pool side. She changed her mind. As to the pool, I’m almost there. And she’ll be along too. ;0)

Au Naturel? ;-)

wangdangdoodle @ 208

So this is on TV too, or just the web?

logoonline.com

It’s been said, “I choose to be who I am”

Highly recommended reading:
Bush’s Communitarianism vs. Constitutional Rights
is what we’re all up against. Check out the date on
the post (2001) it’s as true now as it was then.

“Country vs. Party” gets defined in very different ways –
Rightwing: Political Community vs. Individual
Leftwing: Constitution vs. Political(ly coerced) Conformity

Further, this plays out in the arena of “family values.”
Policy development (of all kinds) is rooted in how
broadly one defines “family” and
what it means to “take care of our own”

It appears that a few weeks ago Petraeus and his troops switched sides in the Iraqi civil war. Now instead of fighting the (Sunni) insurgents, we are arming and paying them, much to the disgust of Al Maliki, his government, Moqtada Al Sadr, and Moqtada’s Mahdi Army. Sunni inflicted fatalities are down sharply, and now 73% of our fatalities are inflicted by the Shiites.

So, Petraeus will be able to demonstrate a lot of “progress” in the Sunni areas, but there are three times as many Shiites, and they are just now getting heavily into the fight. Some progress!

Loo Hoo. @ 213

wangdangdoodle @ 208

So this is on TV too, or just the web?

logoonline.com

Thanks LooHoo, that’s what I’m watching. But is it on TV too?

Kirk at 191, that is a very fine post. I have not watched it all on c-span, but Cordesman has been pumping out the Rove talking points. They did not mention the missing 180,000 AK-47 automatic rifles. Or why Petraeus allowed Victor Bout to supply the insurgents with these weapons.

Joe calls her on the “states rights” part of her argument. She sez “you’re doing what you need to do and should do.”

“Not a long term struggle yet.”

OT-Just got home. What network is carrying the dem forum?

wigwam @ 215

It appears that a few weeks ago Petraeus and his troops switched sides in the Iraqi civil war. Now instead of fighting the (Sunni) insurgents, we are arming and paying them, much to the disgust of Al Maliki, his government, Moqtada Al Sadr, and Moqtada’s Mahdi Army. Sunni inflicted fatalities are down sharply, and now 73% of our fatalities are inflicted by the Shiites.

So, Petraeus will be able to demonstrate a lot of “progress” in the Sunni areas, but there are three times as many Shiites, and they are just now getting heavily into the fight. Some progress!

A big problem here is that Petraeus may not know that this is what he has done because he is still under the impression that there is no civil war.

Joe facilitator on State v. Federal: DING!

State’s rights is only a part of it.
If HRC is willing to delete Section III of DOMA
then just get rid of the whole thing. The rest is
premised on religious bias and it has no place
at the Federal level. BOOOOOO!

Actually, Hillary, the Constitution quite effectively enshrined discrimination for some time.

Can you sympathize with the issue about being a states right issue?

Yes, I respect the work the community is doing in advocacy. States are working more rapidly than the federal government. Worked against the amendment that would condone discrimination. I don’t know if we could have defeated it without DOMA.

I’m optimistic. I don’t hear it about the amendment, it was a cynical ploy on the part of the republicans.

I hang out with a lot of teens, and very few of them have any problem with gays, gay marriage, full and equal rights, any of it. The few who believe that it is morally wrong, only think it is morally wrong for Christians.

What happens when geeks have too much time on their hands?

answer

Not that I know of, Doodle. If it were, Biden would be there yelling.

“our hopes were thrown under the bus”
You tell her Melissa.

Melissa talks about being left behind and thrown under the bus by Bill. How will you be different?

TeddySanFran @ 181

Richardson sez homosexuality is a choice. Melissa gives him another chance at the question. He doesn’t get it.

It’s irrelevant. If sexuality is innate, then it’s just like skin color, and most people agree that you shouldn’t discriminate on the basis of color. If sexuality is a choice, then it’s just like religion, and most people agree that you shouldn’t discriminate on the basis of religion.

Frank Probst @ 229

TeddySanFran @ 181

Richardson sez homosexuality is a choice. Melissa gives him another chance at the question. He doesn’t get it.

It’s irrelevant. If sexuality is innate, then it’s just like skin color, and most people agree that you shouldn’t discriminate on the basis of color. If sexuality is a choice, then it’s just like religion, and most people agree that you shouldn’t discriminate on the basis of religion.

I never heard it put that way. That’s a very powerful argument.

She is working on changing laws, but also changing attitudes. If I were sitting with you (Melissa), including the health issues, I realize that time can’t wait. It has been an assault on people like you.

Thanks for the Ritchie Havens link.
Just pulled out the Woodstock album, yeah, that vinyl thingie and putting it on now.
Ya got me going.

Hi gang,
been watching the debate on Logo on teevee while packing boxes.

This has been a much better forum style for all of them. Direct questions of substance. Long answers. Even Gravel sounded less crazy then he had in all the other “debates.”

So where the hell is Chris Dodd? I haven’t heard why he isn’t there.

I would say that Sen. Clinton appears to be much more comfortable in this setting than Gov. Richardson did.

solai @ 219

OT-Just got home. What network is carrying the dem forum?

****

The satellite channel LOGO.

wigwam @ 215

It appears that a few weeks ago Petraeus and his troops switched sides in the Iraqi civil war. Now instead of fighting the (Sunni) insurgents, we are arming and paying them, much to the disgust of Al Maliki, his government, Moqtada Al Sadr, and Moqtada’s Mahdi Army. Sunni inflicted fatalities are down sharply, and now 73% of our fatalities are inflicted by the Shiites.

So now Bush can blame Iran for arming the Shia, “bringing harm to our troops.” Cheney wants to attack Iran. When has this President not given his VP what he wants?

As chairman of joint chiefs, Powell had a direct impact on the lives of kids in the military.

She agreed with him, and then changed her tune. Focused on military, but should have put it in a broader context.

Someone on the bench who is against gay marriage? No,

Doesn’t back down from I’m your girl, reinforces it…

Hi RevDeb. Good to see you. House stuff all taken care of?

Making it personal in her wrapup about friends her own age who’ve suffered as they came out to family and friends, have faced discrimation.

Twain @ 146

Milan River @ 138

I would put Sheehan’s bumper sticker on my car even though I live in Ohio. Unseating Pelosi for anothe Dem is not local for me. It needs to be a national imperative.

You would like to waste all those years of experience and our first FEMALE speaker? I would not. I send a ranting e-mail to Pelosi almost every day and I don’t agree with whole bunch of stuff, but I certainly don’t want to throw her out.

I live in her district, and I do.

She has two X chromosomes.

She caved on FISA. She took impeachement off the table.

Identity politics – blergh.

Identify policies – yes.

Pelosi fails to defend the Constitution.

I vote for policies, not gonads.

neurophius @ 234

I would say that Sen. Clinton appears to be much more comfortable in this setting than Gov. Richardson did.

Richardson seems to be better at diplomacy with foreign leaders and reps than he is with campaigning. He hasn’t hit a bullseye yet in any type of forum. To bad but that’s what it is.

I want to be a president who can say these are our parents, children, etc. I will fight for the community, hate crimes, equality, make the country better.

Hi RevDeb!

TSF @ 230: I have my moments. BTW, has anybody there called out the HRC on the fact that they supported anti-equality candidate Joe Lieberman? Or that Jeff Trandahl, who is on their board of directors, was up to his neck in the Mark Foley scandal, and the only “public” statement he’s made about it was on an HRC cruise, as opposed to the actual public? Or that they shitcanned their employee who blew the whistle on Foley?

Loo Hoo. @ 237

As chairman of joint chiefs, Powell had a direct impact on the lives of kids in the military.

She agreed with him, and then changed her tune. Focused on military, but should have put it in a broader context.

Someone on the bench who is against gay marriage? No,

Doesn’t back down from I’m your girl, reinforces it…

She actually did say “I’m your girl?”

TeddySanFran @ 239

Making it personal in her wrapup about friends her own age who’ve suffered as they came out to family and friends, have faced discrimation.

But she’s OK with them having no right to serve in the military or visit their spouse in the hospital?

One of these days I’m gonna change my evil ways…

Ride On – AC/DC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpoY_Bs8Wy4

Oddmommy, yes, Tues night n Chicago.

oddmommy, she was given a chance to take it back from the AFL-CIO debate, and said, no I am your girl.

RevDeb @ 242

neurophius @ 234

I would say that Sen. Clinton appears to be much more comfortable in this setting than Gov. Richardson did.

Richardson seems to be better at diplomacy with foreign leaders and reps than he is with campaigning. He hasn’t hit a bullseye yet in any type of forum. To bad but that’s what it is.

I’m telling ya he would be a great Sec. of State!!! Prez, not so hot!!!

Man, a treat for later. All the Freedom YouTubes!

TexBetsy @ 245

TeddySanFran @ 239

Making it personal in her wrapup about friends her own age who’ve suffered as they came out to family and friends, have faced discrimation.

But she’s OK with them having no right to serve in the military or visit their spouse in the hospital?

HRC did say repeal DADT. not sure on the other.

Masters of War, Dylan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWkWSLEW-Ds

TexBetsy @ 238

Hi RevDeb. Good to see you. House stuff all taken care of?

Got back tonight from buying the house in PA this morning. Now we have a sprint to finish packing before the movers get here Mon. morning. I may be very scarce on line for at least the next week. If I have to return Comcast’s boxes tomorrow (if they aren’t open over the weekend) then I’m off line until next Friday at the earliest—including e-mail. There is a Panera not too far from the new house so I may have to go over there for tea if I have time.

Oy.

OT:

Musharraf decides against Pakistan emergency (AFP)

AFP – Embattled President Pervez Musharraf decided Thursday not to impose a state of emergency in Pakistan, ignoring the advice of aides who wanted strong action to

TexBetsy @ 247

Oddmommy, yes, Tues night n Chicago.

How….odd.

“Girl” really is a loaded word. When applied to a woman, I mean. I don’t like it that she used it that way. But then, I don’t like her, anyway.

RevDeb @ 253

TexBetsy @ 238

Hi RevDeb. Good to see you. House stuff all taken care of?

Got back tonight from buying the house in PA this morning. Now we have a sprint to finish packing before the movers get here Mon. morning. I may be very scarce on line for at least the next week. If I have to return Comcast’s boxes tomorrow (if they aren’t open over the weekend) then I’m off line until next Friday at the earliest—including e-mail. There is a Panera not too far from the new house so I may have to go over there for tea if I have time.

Oy.

Wishing you an easy time of it.

neurophius @ 234

I would say that Sen. Clinton appears to be much more comfortable in this setting than Gov. Richardson did.

I’m not watching, but does this mean the questioners (except Melissa) are from K Street?

RevDeb @ 242

neurophius @ 234

I would say that Sen. Clinton appears to be much more comfortable in this setting than Gov. Richardson did.

Richardson seems to be better at diplomacy with foreign leaders and reps than he is with campaigning. He hasn’t hit a bullseye yet in any type of forum. To bad but that’s what it is.

I have to say that Richardson’s innate vs chosen belief bothers me a lot less than his commitment to “pragmatism”. I’m not willing to sit in the back of the bus just because Richardson doesn’t think he can get me a seat up front. That’s how we wound up with don’t-ask-don’t-tell. Clinton didn’t even try to fight for us. He could have signed an executive order immediately lifting the ban on gays in the military. He didn’t. (And don’t tell me the earth would have spun right off its axis if he’d done it, either. It wouldn’t have happened.) Instead, he dithered around until the damn ban got written into law. Thanks for nothing.

Angelique Kidjo:

://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ACprQXFwI

RevDeb @ 253

TexBetsy @ 238

Hi RevDeb. Good to see you. House stuff all taken care of?

Got back tonight from buying the house in PA this morning. Now we have a sprint to finish packing before the movers get here Mon. morning. I may be very scarce on line for at least the next week. If I have to return Comcast’s boxes tomorrow (if they aren’t open over the weekend) then I’m off line until next Friday at the earliest—including e-mail. There is a Panera not too far from the new house so I may have to go over there for tea if I have time.

Oy.

((((((((((((Deb))))))))))

kirk murphy @ 257

neurophius @ 234

I would say that Sen. Clinton appears to be much more comfortable in this setting than Gov. Richardson did.

I’m not watching, but does this mean the questioners (except Melissa) are from K Street?

Jonathan Capeheart works for Fred Hiatt at the editorial page of WaPo. Joe Solmonese runs the Human Rights Campaign. Not sure that either is actually on K Street, but spiritually, yes. Plus moderator Margaret Carlson dated Fred Thompson.

Try again for anyone interested, Angelique Kidjo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ACprQXFwI

radiofreewil at 185 says-”Loo Hoo and LS

Hear My Train Comin’ – Jimi Hendrix (incredible clip!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOnju6P87IE”

was catching up on reading comments then going to bed…….THANKS!!!! i’m on dialup, so can’t check it right now, but a while back, i heard a jimi song about a train…it was incredible…didn’t get the name of it….i had never heard it, and loved it……..asked every single musician i knew if they knew it, they didn’t………i think this is it! will email it to a friend a listen to it on their high-speed………thanks!!!!!!!

moving is never, ever easy. In fact, the last time I survived it, 6 years ago, I was grateful that our then-new home has a fireplace mantel on which the urn containing my ashes can rest when I am dead……cause I AINT movin again, not in this life.

Wow, Bush 41 is responsible for spawning George-Iraq war boy and Niel – savings and loan scandal boy. No wonder the papers are reporting today his (41’s) heart and soul are heavy. Funny how the perps and benefactors cry victim. Bush =infamous.

Hugh @ 172

LS @ 126

Yes, I understand, except that The Lancet is one of the world’s most esteemed, peer-reviewed medical publications, so his dispute of their methodologies and findings is quite simply, ludicrous.

We agree about the Lancet study. My point about Cordesman is that his description of the situation in Iraq is fairly good. But like so many military analysts, he proceeds to draw exactly the wrong conclusions. This strategic patience that he is trying to sell I find particularly irksome since it ignores that we have been patient with one failure after another in Iraq for nearly 4 1/2 years. After that length of time, I do not see how any withdrawal can be called precipitate. But getting generals, Presidents, and military out of a war is a lot like taking away a favorite toy from a child. They just don’t want to give it up and will try to hold on to it as long as they can.

Gee, most of the troops I see being interviewed would be pretty happy to get out of there.

Loo Hoo. @ 226

Not that I know of, Doodle. If it were, Biden would be there yelling.

HA!

So maybe you or TexBetsy can help me figure out how to save this to disk on my fancy assed new media ready computer?

Or maybe Betsy can send Cassie over to show me how?

doG, I feel old!

oddmommy @ 264

moving is never, ever easy. In fact, the last time I survived it, 6 years ago, I was grateful that our then-new home has a fireplace mantel on which the urn containing my ashes can rest when I am dead……cause I AINT movin again, not in this life.

Swore that in ‘96. Moved twice since then. Will be moving again in a few years. But the pile gets considerably smaller each time ;-).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr5tx0lcyQc

Well that’s progress for ya – at least Gravel is talking about legalizing marijuana sales.

And Kucinich borrows ideas from the Green Party as well. I think in a few years, the proressives will be able to make some headway in the Democratic party. As long as informed voters keep ‘em honest.

And really, that’s the trick – Keep the Green wedge involved in the democratic party. Or lose them again like in 2000.

Sen. Clinton: “I’m your girl.”

In other words, “You don’t need to be afraid of me. I’m not really some kind of powerlusting, angry, scary ‘feminist.’ When you get right down to it, I’m just a good ol’…girl!”

A small, possibly OT note on the cognitive field of our times: The other day NGing was quoted somewhere seeming to refer to the gwot as a “phoney war.” This was interpreted by many as a statement by him that gwot was bullshit, or something.

I thought at the time that he meant something else, and the quotes LS supplied on the “Hard Sell” thread have not only confirmed that, but convinced me that it’s worth mentioning again, with some emphasis.

I think NG was not saying that gwot was “phoney” in the sense of false, or a waste of time, or any such that many of us might believe. I think he was saying that it is a “Phoney War” stage of something else larger, in the same way as the jockeying and skirmishing among European countries in 1939 or 1940 after Germany invaded Poland was called “Phoney War.”

Just my sense of things. And thanks for the quotes from that man’s speeches, LS.

I think Logo did a great job on this discussion! The crew were all well-prepared and the production was top-notch. As this is my first experience with the network, I am pleasantly surprised.

Highlight of the night – an interview with a middle-aged lesbian couple, one of whom was sporting a top-of-the-line, world-class, take-no-prisoners mullet.

oddmommy @ 47

speaking of elite media “suckers” … check out the “breaking” coverage of the Utah mine situation. It is absolutely fucking sickening the way they are depicting Murray as this passionately concerned, sleepless sentinel hovering anxiously at the mouth of the mine…..along with endless sugary bullshit about “hopes” and “prayers” and “candlelight vigils”…. …

You know, like this whole thing just HAPPENED. “Natural” disaster. God’s will, and all that. It’s making me SICK.

What’s ‘natural’ about digging a huge hole in the ground and going down into it every day?

GordonM @ 268

oddmommy @ 264

moving is never, ever easy. In fact, the last time I survived it, 6 years ago, I was grateful that our then-new home has a fireplace mantel on which the urn containing my ashes can rest when I am dead……cause I AINT movin again, not in this life.

Swore that in ‘96. Moved twice since then. Will be moving again in a few years. But the pile gets considerably smaller each time ;-).

haw haw. “Been there, swore that.”

neurophius @ 152

Listening to the HRC forum. Can somebody tell me what “DOMA” is?

In the Bush administration it’s probably the Dept. of Mining Accidents.

Kirk M
Its nice to hear the feedback from someone in Pelosi’s district. Let us know how to get a bumper sticker for Sheehan. Seriously.

TeddySanFran @ 181

Richardson sez homosexuality is a choice. Melissa gives him another chance at the question. He doesn’t get it.

Just ask him when he DECIDED to be a heterosexual.

wangdangdoodle @ 267

Loo Hoo. @ 226

Not that I know of, Doodle. If it were, Biden would be there yelling.

HA!

So maybe you or TexBetsy can help me figure out how to save this to disk on my fancy assed new media ready computer?

Or maybe Betsy can send Cassie over to show me how?

doG, I feel old!

My son and my dad arrive here tomorrow. So I am sure Cass would LOVE to get away all weekend!

Over and over again, Our Elite Media keep getting suckered by the same flim-flam.

Suckered? You can’t be serious.

Even Charlie Brown, after Lucy pulled away the 57th football, kept pretending to be fooled only so he could keep collecting his share of the syndication money. How else could he continue living in the style to which he had become accustomed? Charlie Brown had no other skills. Being a famous cartoon character was all knew.

Hugh @ 197

Drug use is about cultural norms and how these are reflected in the law. Nicotine is highly addictive but tobacco is not illegal. Marijuana isn’t that addictive but is illegal. Alcohol is legal but can be abused. Prescription opiates and tranquillizers same story. If things had fallen out differently in our history, it could be tobacco that was outlawed and marijuana that wasn’t.

A scientist could analyze the different drugs and their effect in raising dopamine level in a user and how that rises plateaus and falls with use. That would give you an idea of which of the drugs is most dangerous and tends to ruin lives because it prevents normal functioning. Once you know which are literally dangerous (rather than presumed to be), then you could decide a cut-off point above which all are illegal.

We would, in all cases including tobacco and alcohol, do very well for ourselves to focus on treatment rather than long jail terms. Our jail industry is ridiculously wasteful for most drug users and the lives of jailers and the people constructing prisons.

Also, tobacco/nicotine is the real gateway drug. We ought to do everything to prevent kids from using it.

IMHO

My definition of marriage: a civil contract, the parties to which are consenting adults. YMMV ….

Hello? They aren’t being “suckered”! They’re bought and paid for. If you actually believe the “News” media are merely niave then you’re the one being suckered.

LS @ 68

Out on a limb here.

I believe that there may have been underground “testing” in Caliente, Nevada area on the during the times and the days that seismic activity occurred in Utah. I believe that it is possible that tectonic activity spread up into Utah, perhaps causing the collapse. I know it sounds out there, but I have been checking the quake activity. If there is a cover-up, it could be about “testing” in Nevada. Just saying.

There are low magnitude earthquakes in these Great Basin areas all the time. A 3.9 is extremely weak. Remember that the Richter Scale is a logarthymic one. A 4.0 is 10 times stronger than a 3.9…and a 4.1 ten times stronger than the 4.0. A 3.9 wouldn’t even be detectable to the human senses.

That means you have to go a long ways up in Richter values for an earthquake to occur that will actually shake something off a your dinner table. Much less cause a house to collapse.

If these mines are collapsing in NORMATIVE earthquakes of this size in that region then standards to protect workers in them aren’t worth shite!

bmaz @ 73

Hugh and Jonathan – As to your discussion below, the US Constitution references habeas corpus in the portion describing the Legislative function, Article One, Section 9, also known as the “Suspension Clause”. Somewhat curiously, the language merely indicates that

“The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.”

However, it is clear from numerous background resources documenting the intent of the framers that they considered the writ to be an inherent affirmative right.

Could this be related to the PRAGMATIC risks and difficulties of dealing with writs of habeas corpus in areas that were under rebellion (e.g. during the Shays Rebellions the Courts themselves were impossible to hold) or invasion. The “public safety” of holding any sort of civil hearing under such circumstances would be next to impossible…thus the right could be “suspended” when there could be no Judicial body to adjudicate the writs.

That would put the two together IMO.

But to suspend habeas corpus when there are perfectly functional courts to hear such writs…and then contrive ill-prepared and arbitrary MILITARY COURTS to hear the cases is clearly not what the Framers indicated.

Just want to clarify what I said above. It’s not the inalienable right to habeas corpus that is being suspended in such cases (insurrection and invasion) – it’s the legal process…until such time the individuals held can be placed in a circumstance where a fair civil hearing can occur. Thus it would be obligatory to quickly place anyone held without a writ of habeas corpus into the arms of a magistrate who could deal with such issues.

Fabrications such as GITMO and these arbitrary MILITARY TRIBUNALS would NOT be appropriate.