ZED!

Is there anybody… out there?

I knew this was coming.

Every time you let a bully get away with their crap,they amp up for the next attack.

Damn it.

out there

Hi JF,how’s things?

anangryoldbroad @ 5

Hi JF,how’s things?

Good. Busy. And you?

Let’s see….you help the government break the law, and then, you get a ‘get out of jail card’ for free…..I guess that makes sense…

Good morning, everyone. Really, REALLY need coffee….

Hey N=1, thanks for the hug yesterday.

And good morning to all.

Good morning Teddy!

Extra bonus hug for ((((Millineryman))))

Morning all — huge thank you to Teddy for putting a post together for me. Our power went out yesterday due to all the air conditioning being run in the heat wave here. And it took them most of the afternoon and night to get the power back up again. So Teddy graciously stepped in to help out just in case I couldn’t get back on this morning.

Thanks, Teddy!

anangryoldbroad @ 3

I knew this was coming.

Every time you let a bully get away with their crap,they amp up for the next attack.

Damn it.

You got it.

Well, good morning Christy then :)

Transparently illegal activity. Thy name is Republican.

Even Barney Fife knew that “if you give them an inch they’ll take a mile.”

This shouldn’t surprise anyone. But I’m sure our invertebrate congressional Dems will certainly ACT surprised by this.

“How could anyone have predicted this?” should just be put on the fax cover sheets of all their press releases.

I’m good JF,just trying to not die of heatstroke,lol. The kid starts school next week so we have some shopping to do for shoes and stuff today.

Socialize the risk, privatize the profit. It’s the Republican way.

Thanks egregious.

eCAHNomics_Did you see the explanation I left for you about the name Log Cabin Republicans?

Good morning, everyone. Really, REALLY need coffee….

Millineryman @ 9

Hey N=1, thanks for the hug yesterday.

And good morning to all.

You’re welcome, and here’s another ((((Millineryman)))) I think we’re passengers on the same bus *g*.

meaningful liability protection to those who are alleged to have assisted our Nation

This phrase alone sets off all kinds of alarms about corruption, balance of power, abuse, and flagwaving to cover misdeeds.

N=1 did you find a place to live? And I remember you found a foster place for your cats but what about your dogs. Hope you are doing ok.

Just hours after I left Brooklyn, fuming because I missed the last express train back to the city, and hence, the last bus back for hours, it seems an F2 tornado swept through that borough. No connection to my sturm und drang, I’m sure. But jus’ sayin’….

Millineryman @ 18

Thanks egregious.

eCAHNomics_Did you see the explanation I left for you about the name Log Cabin Republicans?

No. I retired without saying good night. I’ll look for it. Thx.

mack @ 20

meaningful liability protection to those who are alleged to have assisted our Nation

This phrase alone sets off all kinds of alarms about corruption, balance of power, abuse, and flagwaving to cover misdeeds.

Those alarms have been going off continuously for the past seven years — that makes it so much easier to tune them out.

I think that’s the Republican strategy. Do so many horrible things so often, there’s no way the public has time to focus on ANY of their crimes.

Liability protection for the “allegators”*?

What a Croc!

*Those who collude in criminal acts to violate the Constitution.

egregious @ 21

N=1 did you find a place to live? And I remember you found a foster place for your cats but what about your dogs. Hope you are doing ok.

Exactly the same – job interviews leading to nowhere and no apt. yet. All the animals are still in limbo. One telecommuting job offer, but for something I hadn’t done, so didn’t have the required skill set. Otherwise, I’m apparently “overqualified*” to participate in the rat race. *g*

Overqualified = too old, not pretty, uppity, thinks, has experience beyond the minimum, over-educated, uses servant leadership, ethical, undesired race, undesired gender, undesired culture, add your own qualifier.

N=1 @ 22

Just hours after I left Brooklyn, fuming because I missed the last express train back to the city, and hence, the last bus back for hours, it seems an F2 tornado swept through that borough. No connection to my strum und drang, I’m sure. But jus’ sayin’….

took a shock through the computer just tryin to quote ya, N=1. You seem to attract not only heat but light and cyclonic winds. You must truly be knock out:)

millineryman @ 18
I’m having a hard time finding it. Could you repeat it?

N=1, Have you ever talked with Kirk Murphy (I think is his name.) He’s progressive, articulate and knowledgeable about the health industry today.

eCAHNomics @ 28

millineryman @ 18
I’m having a hard time finding it. Could you repeat it?

Sure no problem. The log cabin in their name is a reference to Lincoln since he grew up in one. Since he was a principled and honorable Republican, they wanted to pay tribute to him.

Millineryman @ 30

eCAHNomics @ 28

millineryman @ 18
I’m having a hard time finding it. Could you repeat it?

Sure no problem. The log cabin in their name is a reference to Lincoln since he grew up in one. Since he was a principled and honorable Republican, they wanted to pay tribute to him.

Interesting. I thought it was a Lincoln reference, but no relationship to anything homosexual.

coffee is ready – hold out your cups…

good morning!

So, does this mean we will be treated to a September spectacle of Congress voting for more Bush fixes and NOT voting to return our rights? I’m thinkin’ yup.

This statement was released by Bush over the weekend, within hours of the House vote as I recall. I wonder if this was even discussed last week in Congress.

The discomfort of the telecoms is the *only* leverage we have left and they’ll give that away too, sure as shootin.’

Oh, and that get out of Iraq thing? Habeas Corpus? It looks like the rough ride will be continuing.

Boston1775 @ 29

N=1, Have you ever talked with Kirk Murphy (I think is his name.) He’s progressive, articulate and knowledgeable about the health industry today.

No, I don’t recall his name (but I’m notoriously horrid in remembering names) so I’ll Google him and try to learn about his health care views. Thanks.

just about the second you think, “oh-ho! this latest outrage will get the shrub”… is about the same second chimpy pushes it even harder…

OC at 32 — I just got my coffee started myself. With the power outage yesterday, I didn’t get to set up my coffee on the timer like usual and it’s killing me this morning. Thankfully, it’s brewing now and life will be good soon…

oh my, I hope Cassie wasn’t out and about last night.

on topic: let’s start working on something else when Congress returns, shall we? Like impeachment!

Millineryman @ 30

eCAHNomics @ 28

millineryman @ 18
I’m having a hard time finding it. Could you repeat it?

Sure no problem. The log cabin in their name is a reference to Lincoln since he grew up in one. Since he was a principled and honorable Republican, they wanted to pay tribute to him.

Yet, there no longer are any principled and honorable Republicans, only Bush toadies.

Redd- saw you on the cspan panel yesterday… gosh, everybody just so smart! very impressive!

N=1 @ 34

Boston1775 @ 29

N=1, Have you ever talked with Kirk Murphy (I think is his name.) He’s progressive, articulate and knowledgeable about the health industry today.

No, I don’t recall his name (but I’m notoriously horrid in remembering names) so I’ll Google him and try to learn about his health care views. Thanks.

Kirk has posted here, right? And I remember him in the comments as well. He’s recently been doing work on GMO and other food supply issues. His research skills are excellent! He’s a doctor isn’t he?

N=1, He comes here sometimes. I think he’s a psychiatrist. I’ve had a couple of great conversations with him, and I also read each comment with great interest.

You know, I want Bush/Cheney to face charges as much as anybody, but do you think if Congress offered them immunity from future prosecution that they would just step down now? There’s still 15 months of this crap!

N=1, good luck with your search. I hope for the best for both of us. One of the opportunities that fell through for me realized the error of his ways and will now meet with me on Friday.

And who is surprised by this move? Does anyone think that there will be anything but more phony bullshit followed by total capitulation!

from Think Progress

Bush “said yesterday that he is considering a fresh plan to cut tax rates for U.S. corporations to make them more competitive around the world.” With most of his legislative agenda in tatters and “his strategy in Iraq under bipartisan fire, Bush appears eager to return to familiar issues that animated the beginning of his presidency and might rally disaffected Republicans behind him again.”

And,Im sure, his numbers are rising.

Good morning everyone. OT media update. Newsweek has a remarkable piece by George Will the right wing repug commentator. He has been pissed at Bush for a long time. But now he is REALLY pissed. Also Boston Globe has a piece talking about how Obama has also taken a fair amount of corporate money (nothing new, and alas I still think he would be an OK choice). NYT has published a lot of opposing letters on the neo-con Michael Gordon run to war with Iran piece it ran on Monday. Alas, none of the letters which they selected to publishes mentions Gordon by name. I guess they are still trying to keep him in their stable as long as possible – shades of Judy Miller. When will they get it?? Alas things will only get worse there as they try to slug it out with the new Murdoch owned WLS in a rush to the bottom. Remember when CNN used to be a viable news station, the same thing happened when they began competing with Fox. Now often it is hard to tell the two apart. (Although interestingly CNN is much better oversees).

Redd, hope you have a basement to keep cool in. What did we do before AC? Marching orders today, ma’am?

GeorgeSimian @ 42

You know, I want Bush/Cheney to face charges as much as anybody, but do you think if Congress offered them immunity from future prosecution that they would just step down now? There’s still 15 months of this crap!

The blanket pardons at the end of the Bush term will keep anyone from seeking deals now.

Millineryman @ 43

N=1, good luck with your search. I hope for the best for both of us. One of the opportunities that fell through for me realized the error of his ways and will now meet with me on Friday.

That’s great news! I hope that works out in a very good and tangible way.

snowbird42 @ 45

from Think Progress

Bush “said yesterday that he is considering a fresh plan to cut tax rates for U.S. corporations to make them more competitive around the world.” With most of his legislative agenda in tatters and “his strategy in Iraq under bipartisan fire, Bush appears eager to return to familiar issues that animated the beginning of his presidency and might rally disaffected Republicans behind him again.”

And,Im sure, his numbers are rising.

Smart timing, and with the elections coming up it is certain that the DCC and other party leaders won’t do anything to counter it. (The rush to equalize party differences just in time for the upcoming election). The repugs will try to convey the idea that there really is no difference (hence people should stay home on voting day), and alas, the Dems seem to be making this more and more tenable.

To refuse to give immunity to those who have broken the wiretapping laws, after just having legalized a whole bunch of what was previously illegal, doesn’t make sense.

But who’s ever accused congressional Democrats of legislating in a sensible way?

I’d love to see a bill saying very specifically that there will be no immunity, civil or criminal, for those found to have been violating the law pre-FISA cave-in. Same with other illegal aspects of TSP which have yet to be unearthed.

In much the same way that attacking the advertisers on offensive teevee shows tends to scare the heck out of those advertisers, a great big shout out to AT&T, et al, to the effect that “You ain’t off the hook yet!” might cause a few ulcers in many corporate legal offices.

Immunity?

NO!! (h/t Ted Stevens)

Badwater @ 48

GeorgeSimian @ 42

You know, I want Bush/Cheney to face charges as much as anybody, but do you think if Congress offered them immunity from future prosecution that they would just step down now? There’s still 15 months of this crap!

The blanket pardons at the end of the Bush term will keep anyone from seeking deals now.

just a little reminder, impeachment covers pardons like paper covers rock. and one can’t very well pardon someone (including hisself) if one has been impeached, eh?

OC at 39 — Thanks much. Am watching it right now, actually. I had set up our TIVO to record something else, and just turned it on to be confronted with myself on teevee. A little unnerving this morning, I have to say…I loved the panel, though. Being able to do it with the folks who were on it was amazing.

Bush to hold PC at 10:30. What prompted that?

“alleged”…interesting. What would I do? I urge Congressional leaders to hold a press conference. Inform the public that various committee’s will crank up immediate hearings, first week of Congress being back in session, into the telecom “alleged” wiretapping of Americans.

Run a little bluff- tell the public that these committees have hired 3 of the nations top Class Action law firms for guidance on questioning of telecom witnesses.

Further advise that Congress has already instructed federal marshals to go out and serve subpoenas to a list of…?10? members of Board of Directors of various telecoms.

And then thank the press for coming, and wish them well. Next….step back and watch Bush and the telecoms start to squeal like stuck pigs.

…..Under Pressure….

Ghostman

Richmond @ 50

snowbird42 @ 45

from Think Progress

And,Im sure, his numbers are rising.

Smart timing, and with the elections coming up it is certain that the DCC and other party leaders won’t do anything to counter it. (The rush to equalize party differences just in time for the upcoming election). The repugs will try to convey the idea that there really is no difference (hence people should stay home on voting day), and alas, the Dems seem to be making this more and more tenable.

you mean like “Bush wants to cut taxes for corporations, like THE OIL COMPANIES!!!” Do you think that might resonate with the public a little? (sorry for yelling Christy.)

Christy, I went looking for you over at CSPAN and don’t see this one archived yet.

I watched Bush’s presser yesterday where he was scolding all the bad bad Dems for funding expensive programs while he wanted tax cuts…

it is the theater of the absurd…

OldCoastie @ 39

Redd- saw you on the cspan panel yesterday… gosh, everybody just so smart! very impressive!

Yes! Discussion which included nuance, logic, critical thinking and reason based on evidence. How refreshing and how needed! No wonder the MSM is so demeaning to the blogosphere. They are seeing their own deficiencies up close and personal.

I think there are two possible scenarios we will see played out in Sept and onward. 1) The congress-critters heard so much anger from their constituents donors that we will actually see some action in the fall. 2) The congress-critters will roll over, give Chimpy everything he wants, which is basically nothing he can’t successfully veto, except money.

My guess is we’re going to see #2. Which stinks.

billjpa @ 44

And who is surprised by this move? Does anyone think that there will be anything but more phony bullshit followed by total capitulation!

if there’s going to be something other than more phony bullshit – then it’s up to us.. after all, they work for us!

seriously – i am a bit more hopeful today than i have been in the last few months. as painful as it is to see our hard fought for congress sell us out multiple times this year…. we’re making progress when we can see it for what it is. and then work to counter it.

Solai @ 54

Bush to hold PC at 10:30. What prompted that?

Oh Good lord – quit torturing yourself. Since when has Georgie need a valid reason to pre-empt the airwaves? My guess is that he wants to show off the big words he learned at Harvard where he got bought his MBA.

jayt @ 51

To refuse to give immunity to those who have broken the wiretapping laws, after just having legalized a whole bunch of what was previously illegal, doesn’t make sense.

But who’s ever accused congressional Democrats of legislating in a sensible way?

I’d love to see a bill saying very specifically that there will be no immunity, civil or criminal, for those found to have been violating the law pre-FISA cave-in. Same with other illegal aspects of TSP which have yet to be unearthed.

In much the same way that attacking the advertisers on offensive teevee shows tends to scare the heck out of those advertisers, a great big shout out to AT&T, et al, to the effect that “You ain’t off the hook yet!” might cause a few ulcers in many corporate legal offices.

Immunity?

NO!! (h/t Ted Stevens)

this issue has come up before – in essence, the new FISA provisions have rendered past transgressions moot. But the changes expire in 6 months. Bush is pushing for permanent immunity since he is the one who broke the law. The Constitution prohibits retroactive imposition of penalites (ex post facto), but it would be a rare thing to see a court rule on a law that has effectively been gutted because of some past transgression. It is not impossible, but it is unlikely, especially given the political nature of ths situation and the lack of political will on the part of Congress. I will, of course and as always, defer to the lawyers on this one.

Solai @ 54

Bush to hold PC at 10:30. What prompted that?

Recess appointments?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 53

OC at 39 — Thanks much. Am watching it right now, actually. I had set up our TIVO to record something else, and just turned it on to be confronted with myself on teevee. A little unnerving this morning, I have to say…I loved the panel, though. Being able to do it with the folks who were on it was amazing.

please let us know when it gets aired again if you are able. would love to see it. and as Boston1775 points out, it may eventually get archived online.

TiredFed @ 52

Badwater @ 48

The blanket pardons at the end of the Bush term will keep anyone from seeking deals now.

just a little reminder, impeachment covers pardons like paper covers rock. and one can’t very well pardon someone (including hisself) if one has been impeached, eh?

preview is my friend. this looks better now.

eCAHNomics @ 64

Solai @ 54

Bush to hold PC at 10:30. What prompted that?

Recess appointments?

damn. now we have to watch!

Protesters arrested here in Orange County at Sanchez’s office.

I think we are going to see a lot more of this.

TiredFed @ 67

eCAHNomics @ 64

Recess appointments?

damn. now we have to watch!

Or to discuss the market. Down 213 so far.

In the interest of taking part in the “You Work for Us Summer Tour,” does anyone know how to get a quick calendar for Dianne Feinstein? Nada on her site, and her phone line is busy lately (fellow disgruntled firepups?).

I’m off to the gym to shake out my post-earthquake jitters, but I’ll check back for replies. Thanks!

Solai @ 54

Bush to hold PC at 10:30. What prompted that?

“This just in from newFISA wiretapping: Congressional Dems are terrorists!” /snark

Ghostman @ 55

“alleged”…interesting. What would I do? I urge Congressional leaders to hold a press conference. Inform the public that various committee’s will crank up immediate hearings, first week of Congress being back in session, into the telecom “alleged” wiretapping of Americans.

Run a little bluff- tell the public that these committees have hired 3 of the nations top Class Action law firms for guidance on questioning of telecom witnesses.

Further advise that Congress has already instructed federal marshals to go out and serve subpoenas to a list of…?10? members of Board of Directors of various telecoms.

And then thank the press for coming, and wish them well. Next….step back and watch Bush and the telecoms start to squeal like stuck pigs.

…..Under Pressure….

Ghostman

I love it! But the Dems with campaign financing from telecoms and the telecom lobby will NEVER allow it to happen.

I imagine W will slap us in the face with some especially despicable recess appointments, he really goes out of his way to find people that are totally unacceptable to us, the opposition.

He may be planning to announce the new initiative in the “War on Drugs” in conjunction with Mexico, where they are planning to spend several hundreds of millions of our tax dollars on an anti drug “surge”. Priorities, you know.

eCAHNomics @ 64

Solai @ 54

Bush to hold PC at 10:30. What prompted that?

Recess appointments?

I heard on Hartmann that he was going to recess appoint a new head of Veterans Affairs. One of the Vets associations came on the show.

TiredFed says
August 9th, 2007 at 6:29 am

this issue has come up before – in essence, the new FISA provisions have rendered past transgressions moot. But the changes expire in 6 months. Bush is pushing for permanent immunity since he is the one who broke the law. The Constitution prohibits retroactive imposition of penalites (ex post facto), but it would be a rare thing to see a court rule on a law that has effectively been gutted because of some past transgression. It is not impossible, but it is unlikely, especially given the political nature of ths situation and the lack of political will on the part of Congress. I will, of course and as always, defer to the lawyers on this one.

While I agree with the practical implications you mention, I disagree with your interpretation of ex post facto laws. That doctrine prohibits criminal charges for activity which was *legal* at the time it was committed, but is later made illegal by a new law.

It doesn’t come into play when the situation is reversed. i.e. Conduct which was illegal when performed is still subject to prosecution, despite a later law which then prospectively makes the conduct legal.

Thus the push for retroactive immunity.

StarCraft at 70 — Have you tried calling her local offices rather than her DC office? Usually the local folks have a better handle on the schedule in the home district area.

looks like the stock market is taking a sudden dump…

snowbird42 @ 74

eCAHNomics @ 64

Recess appointments?

I heard on Hartmann that he was going to recess appoint a new head of Veterans Affairs. One of the Vets associations came on the show.

Bet he’s gonna do just what Teddy says: Warn Congress he’s not finished collectin’ their lunch money.

eCAHNomics @ 64

Recess appointments?

i sure as hell hope not. if recess appoinments happen it is on reid’s head.

from aug 2:

Wary of Recess Appointments, Senate Democrats Weigh August ‘Pro Forma’ Sessions

Majority Leader Harry Reid confidently predicted that Bush will not use his constitutional authority to fill top jobs without Senate confirmation. “We have an agreement with the president,” said Reid, D-Nev. “We don’t think there will be any.”

Privately, a leadership aide said amicable negotiations are under way, but a series of pro forma sessions during August remains a possibility.

A White House spokeswoman said Reid was wrong. “We do not have an agreement,” said Emily Lawrimore. “We don’t ever comment on the potential for recess appointments.”

jayt at 75, thanks for that. So they’re still in danger of prosecution, eh?

I’m enjoying that fact.

Now, can we help Congress to anticipate the ways in which he will try to force them to clear him and his friends from criminal charges?

It seems we have to advise them.

George Bush is to the constitution as Dan White was to Mayor Moscone.

Was does Dianne Feinstein keep feeding Bush Twinkies?

anangryoldbroad @ 3

I knew this was coming.

Every time you let a bully get away with their crap,they amp up for the next attack.

Damn it.

We constantly told that capitulation emboldens evil-doers. And President Bush has cerainly become emboldened.

Fresh thread, up and running for everyone…

fdl reader @ 40

N=1 @ 34

No, I don’t recall his name (but I’m notoriously horrid in remembering names) so I’ll Google him and try to learn about his health care views. Thanks.

Kirk has posted here, right? And I remember him in the comments as well. He’s recently been doing work on GMO and other food supply issues. His research skills are excellent! He’s a doctor isn’t he?

Kirk Murphy used to comment here a lot. Very good stuff too. IIRC, he said that he’s an MD.

new thread.

New wisdom from Christy upstairs.

Cognitive Defects

OldCoastie @ 68

Protesters arrested here in Orange County at Sanchez’s office.

I think we are going to see a lot more of this.

This is part of the problem: the military industrial complex provides jobs and feeds local interest in keeping the war going.

“I never voted for this war,” she said. But “I’m not going to vote against $2.1 billion for C-17 production, which is in California. That is just not going to happen.”

Medea Benjamin, who was not at the protest, said, “It’s quite immoral for Sanchez to say she is more concerned about jobs in her district than the lives of our soldiers.” Benjamin is co-founder of the national women’s peace group Code Pink.

They are heading to Nancy Pelosi’s home next week.

Before Congress approved $95 billion for the Iraq war in March, protesters conducted sit-ins in the offices of several Democrats, including Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Rep. Edward J. Markey of Massachusetts. Also targeted were the offices of Republican critics of the war, such as Sen. Olympia J. Snowe of Maine.

Democrats have been targeted more than Republicans by the nonpartisan Military Families Speak Out because they control Congress, co-founder Nancy Lessin said. Code Pink is planning to camp out and conduct a hunger strike next week at the home of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco).

Meanwhile, AT&T caught censoring anti-Bush statements from it’s live webcast of Pearl Jam at Lollapalooza.

Per AT&T: “Opps, sorry.”

FLASHBACK: Feinstein Moved to Censure Clinton

In 1999, Senator Dianne Feinstein ferociously condemned and sought to censure President WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON for lying about sex:

Whereas [the] president of the United States, deliberately misled and deceived the American people, and people in all branches of the United States government;

Whereas [the president’s] conduct in this matter is unacceptable for a president of the United States, does demean the office of the president as well as the president himself, and creates disrespect for laws of the land;

Whereas [the president] fully deserves censure for engaging in such behavior;

Whereas future generations of Americans must know that such behavior is not only unacceptable but also bears grave consequences, including loss of integrity, trust and respect;

Now, in 2007, after the spilling of a few oceans of blood and treasure in Iraq, she writes no such motion of censure in response to the never ending string of lies that were told by President Bush, Vice President Cheney, AG Gonzales, et al in the Bush admin.

Lying about sex but not causing a single drop of blood to be shed is unequivocally worthy of condemnation and censure BUT lying about WMD, torture, FISA, etc. and causing oceans of blood and treasure to be wasted is much ado about nothing?

[keywords: Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), United States Senate, President WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, sex sex sex, censure resolution, WMD, torture, FISA, President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, (202) 224-3841, sex sex sex, Senate Commitee on the Judiciary, Senate Committee on Rules and Administration (Chairman), Senate Committee on Appropriations, Monica Lewinsky, War Profiteering, Feinstein]

Speaking of amoral bullies and what they have done to persecute, I mean prosecute, Scott Horton and 44 other attorneys have demanded an inquiry into the Siegelman prosecustion.

Anyone have any updates?

OldCoastie @ 77

looks like the stock market is taking a sudden dump…

The French made some sorta move wrt US hedge funds that’s being blamed as cause…..people think this is bad…..just wait ’til the Chinese pull the rug out from under the dollar. :-(

There ya have my extent of economic knowledge but I get some real bad vibes when chimpy starts in with his “the economy is doing great” speeches.

Did anyone see ABC News correspondent Terry McCarthy on Charlie Rose Last night?

Here’s the deal. The Dems ARE going to give them full liability protection. Why? Because it is for our own good. It is because your so-called liberties are no good to you if you are dead. Because they are all in for some more Police States of America. DiFi in particular sees some money to be made in the new Police State Apparatus.

Just sayin’. It is a sure-guarantee that the Dems are going to give the criminals at AT&T, etc, full cover for their illegal activities. From there it only makes sense to go the rest of the way with FISA “fixes” and give BushCo full cover for everything they’ve done and want to do. Nixon would be creaming his jeans if he were still around today.

OldCoastie @ 68

Protesters arrested here in Orange County at Sanchez’s office.

I think we are going to see a lot more of this.

Loretta is already on our side. Why weren’t these people sitting in at Royce’s or Rohrbacher’s offices?

Dumb, just dumb.

selise @ 61

billjpa @ 44

And who is surprised by this move? Does anyone think that there will be anything but more phony bullshit followed by total capitulation!

if there’s going to be something other than more phony bullshit – then it’s up to us.. after all, they work for us!

seriously – i am a bit more hopeful today than i have been in the last few months. as painful as it is to see our hard fought for congress sell us out multiple times this year…. we’re making progress when we can see it for what it is. and then work to counter it.

Then nothing can darken your disposition.

The one with the football snatched away landing on his back is us, not the Democratic Congress. This was as overt a betrayal as I’ve ever seen. The Democrats did not just fail to use the weapon that was in their hand, they didn’t just throw it down out of cowardice: they willingly handed it to Bush and Gonzalez to be used against us. Anyone who believes that the Democrats were tricked by McConnell, or that it was a procedural fuckup, is being credulous to the point of self-delusion. I don’t know whether it was cowardice, complicity or coercion, but it seems that elections are form without substance when they are followed by escalation of the war and virtual retroactive legalization of the administration’s crimes, and thereby the positive sanction to engage in worse crimes.

They don’t “work for us.” We offer lousy pay.

jayt @ 75

TiredFed says
August 9th, 2007 at 6:29 am

this issue has come up before – in essence, the new FISA provisions have rendered past transgressions moot. But the changes expire in 6 months. Bush is pushing for permanent immunity since he is the one who broke the law. The Constitution prohibits retroactive imposition of penalites (ex post facto), but it would be a rare thing to see a court rule on a law that has effectively been gutted because of some past transgression. It is not impossible, but it is unlikely, especially given the political nature of ths situation and the lack of political will on the part of Congress. I will, of course and as always, defer to the lawyers on this one.

While I agree with the practical implications you mention, I disagree with your interpretation of ex post facto laws. That doctrine prohibits criminal charges for activity which was *legal* at the time it was committed, but is later made illegal by a new law.

It doesn’t come into play when the situation is reversed. i.e. Conduct which was illegal when performed is still subject to prosecution, despite a later law which then prospectively makes the conduct legal.

Thus the push for retroactive immunity.

jayt, I agree, just didn’t word it well. however, I’m still not convinced we will get very far with retroactive charges once a law makes something legal that was once illegal.

burnspbesq @ 94

OldCoastie @ 68

Protesters arrested here in Orange County at Sanchez’s office.

I think we are going to see a lot more of this.

Loretta is already on our side. Why weren’t these people sitting in at Royce’s or Rohrbacher’s offices?

Dumb, just dumb.

not if she insists on continuing to fund the war. from the link:

Tuesday night Sanchez said she could not support the protesters because the $145 billion in Iraq war funding was in the same bill that would provide money to build the C-17 aircraft in California.

good for MFSO.

TiredFed @ 56

Richmond @ 50

Smart timing, and with the elections coming up it is certain that the DCC and other party leaders won’t do anything to counter it. (The rush to equalize party differences just in time for the upcoming election). The repugs will try to convey the idea that there really is no difference (hence people should stay home on voting day), and alas, the Dems seem to be making this more and more tenable.

you mean like “Bush wants to cut taxes for corporations, like THE OIL COMPANIES!!!” Do you think that might resonate with the public a little? (sorry for yelling Christy.)

Well like insurance so they won’t have to raise your rates so fast, or big pharma so that they can “bring down your drug prices and invent nifty new ones (snark, and the latter meaning remarket old ones with a bit of twiddling so they seem new; or invent new illness so one can treat them with flomax,E.D. and whatever the name of the new one is so woman won’t have to suffer from the ‘illness’ of menstruation). Double snark.

Praedor Atrebates @ 93

Here’s the deal. The Dems ARE going to give them full liability protection. Why? Because it is for our own good. It is because your so-called liberties are no good to you if you are dead. Because they are all in for some more Police States of America. DiFi in particular sees some money to be made in the new Police State Apparatus.

Just sayin’. It is a sure-guarantee that the Dems are going to give the criminals at AT&T, etc, full cover for their illegal activities. From there it only makes sense to go the rest of the way with FISA “fixes” and give BushCo full cover for everything they’ve done and want to do. Nixon would be creaming his jeans if he were still around today.

I apologize for last night, PA.

OT alert…there’s a nice DKos article up on how Waxman has finally spoken a peep about the Sibel Edmonds case. As you might expect, he is claiming to not know much about the case, says he never promised to investigate it, and passed on the old saw that “there are just so many other issues to investigate…” Yeah, so many other issues that do not involve the BIGGEST acts of corruption to EVER be brought forward that involves the heart of the State Department, the GOP, AND the Democrapic party. Of course Waxman will not investigate Edmonds case. Doing so would shine light on corruption so deep and consuming in the Democrap party and the GOP that it would finally show the truth for all to see: there is no real difference between them and that the entire government is corrupt and beyond cleanup.

Richmond @ 99

Praedor Atrebates @ 93

Here’s the deal. The Dems ARE going to give them full liability protection. Why? Because it is for our own good. It is because your so-called liberties are no good to you if you are dead. Because they are all in for some more Police States of America. DiFi in particular sees some money to be made in the new Police State Apparatus.

Just sayin’. It is a sure-guarantee that the Dems are going to give the criminals at AT&T, etc, full cover for their illegal activities. From there it only makes sense to go the rest of the way with FISA “fixes” and give BushCo full cover for everything they’ve done and want to do. Nixon would be creaming his jeans if he were still around today.

I apologize for last night, PA.

I also apologize. I was VERY angry and did not mean to be overly offensive to anyone.

What really gets me, beyond the FISA deal, is the seeming broad willingness by everyone to forgive and forget that their Constitutional Rights are being riped to shreds…and people are still willing to simply shrug it off and keep giving money and votes to the people doing it. That, even more than the act of treason itself by the government suits, makes me supremely angry and disgusted. I argue that there IS an alternative and it is an alternative that they will REALLY listen to: shut down the money spigot entirely. A couple months of dismal campaign monies will grab their attention much more forcefully than a bunch of angry emails. A threat of a massive loss of votes (due to low turnout, what I call “Democratic party-style voter suppression”) should accompany the cut-off of the money spigot.

If they internalize the meme “Where else are they going to go?” (meaning “We can get away with murder because there’s no way they’ll vote GOP”) and you all give truth to that meme, then nothing will ever ever change.

brendan @ 95

The one with the football snatched away landing on his back is us, not the Democratic Congress. This was as overt a betrayal as I’ve ever seen.

absolutely agree. did you see my analysis in yesterday’s thread? in four parts: intro, part 1, part 2 and part 3

what i was trying to say is that recognition that it was a betrayal is a positive thing. it’s not like everyone’s convinced themselves that all is well and that the dem leadership has done everything that they could.

selise @ 102

brendan @ 95

The one with the football snatched away landing on his back is us, not the Democratic Congress. This was as overt a betrayal as I’ve ever seen.

absolutely agree. did you see my analysis in yesterday’s thread? in four parts: intro, part 1, part 2 and part 3

what i was trying to say is that recognition that it was a betrayal is a positive thing. it’s not like everyone’s convinced themselves that all is well and that the dem leadership has done everything that they could.

I love you Selise.

selise @ 102

brendan @ 95

The one with the football snatched away landing on his back is us, not the Democratic Congress. This was as overt a betrayal as I’ve ever seen.

absolutely agree. did you see my analysis in yesterday’s thread? in four parts: intro, part 1, part 2 and part 3

what i was trying to say is that recognition that it was a betrayal is a positive thing. it’s not like everyone’s convinced themselves that all is well and that the dem leadership has done everything that they could.

Selise…are you by chance a Kossack? If so, would you please consider posting your full analysis at Dkos? There are a lot of Kossacks that need a full-on faceful of stinky reality on this.

Bush goes Hitler one better. Hitler killed disidents. Bush lets them rant and goes on his not so merry way. Yes, the Democrats are a big disappointment, especially Nancy Pelosi. I thought she was made of sterner stuff. Perhaps she fears being president.

So the question is what now? If we’re not ready for that question, we can hope the 2008 elections will change things. We have too much to lose, so many creature comforts, we say “This, too, shall pass” and keep our fingers crossed. It may pass. It may be unnecessary for anyone to stick his or her neck out.

There was a comment here on FDL, but I forget where, when someone announced a General Strike for September 11. It was the first and only time I heard of it. Kinda came and went on little cat feet. Not a bad idea. If everyone stays home from work, that makes an impression. In the interests of full disclosure I am self employed in a home office. My staying home goes unnoticed.

Those who believe the system works will give it at least one more chance. Those who believe the system will do in 2008 what it did in the years following 2006 should start talking about what to do about a system that no longer represents us. Or we can say screw it, and have another cup of coffee, although too much coffee isn’t good for you either.

Not as much on DiFi as I thought there would be.

Hey, could somebody please help me get this knife outta my back? Ever since she voted to release the Southwick nomination from Committee and voted for the FISA revisions within the same week, I’ve had this sharp pain back there. I can only see a handle sticking out but can’t reach it.

Praedor Atrebates @ 104

Selise…are you by chance a Kossack? If so, would you please consider posting your full analysis at Dkos? There are a lot of Kossacks that need a full-on faceful of stinky reality on this.

i am, with a three digit uid (not that it should matter). and you’re right, i should probably do as you suggest… although i haven’t written a diary in over a year – and the last one was at the request of pach (to write up a roots project action).

would you and pow wow consider doing the same for the senate?

do you have any idea what time of day is the best to submit a diary like this?… i mean – to get the most viewers before it slides off the list.

p.s. did you see this important bit of info on the senate fuckery?

selise @ 107

Praedor Atrebates @ 104

Selise…are you by chance a Kossack? If so, would you please consider posting your full analysis at Dkos? There are a lot of Kossacks that need a full-on faceful of stinky reality on this.

i am, with a three digit uid (not that it should matter). and you’re right, i should probably do as you suggest… although i haven’t written a diary in over a year – and the last one was at the request of pach (to write up a roots project action).

would you and pow wow consider doing the same for the senate?

do you have any idea what time of day is the best to submit a diary like this?… i mean – to get the most viewers before it slides off the list.

p.s. did you see this important bit of info on the senate fuckery?

Hmmm…the comment that the link jumps me to is perhaps not the one you intended? There is a stream of Paul in LA jabs at you and responses…and a good comment from Katie Jacob about her conversation with a Levin aid on the phone about the whole thing. But I am still threading upward in the list and not finding something (as yet) that could be turned into a diary at Kos.

selise @ 79

eCAHNomics @ 64

Recess appointments?

i sure as hell hope not. if recess appoinments happen it is on reid’s head.

For an ex-boxer, he sure does get sucker punched a lot.

Jean2k @ 109

selise @ 79

i sure as hell hope not. if recess appoinments happen it is on reid’s head.

The only “upside” here is that the recess appointment would come to an end rather soon – the current congress doesn’t have much longer (to live as far as I’m concerned).
For an ex-boxer, he sure does get sucker punched a lot.

kindness @ 106

Not as much on DiFi as I thought there would be.

Hey, could somebody please help me get this knife outta my back? Ever since she voted to release the Southwick nomination from Committee and voted for the FISA revisions within the same week, I’ve had this sharp pain back there. I can only see a handle sticking out but can’t reach it.

I will happily remove the dagger and patch you up but first a question… What will you do then? Will you take that dagger and arm yourself with it or will you toss it in the trashcan and then re-expose your back to DiFi for another clean strike?

I promise to never vote for Diane, in any capacity, for any race ever again.

She’s never been my favorite (too conservative) but I have voted for her in the past in the November elections.

No more! Ever!

Praedor Atrebates @ 108

Hmmm…the comment that the link jumps me to is perhaps not the one you intended? There is a stream of Paul in LA jabs at you and responses…and a good comment from Katie Jacob about her conversation with a Levin aid on the phone about the whole thing. But I am still threading upward in the list and not finding something (as yet) that could be turned into a diary at Kos.

it was the comment by katie that i meant to refer to you. it is the first (as far as i know) direct evidence that reid punked his own people who were trying to craft a more reasonable bill.

See, I knew that the Democrats would embolden the terrorist.

selise @ 102

brendan @ 95

The one with the football snatched away landing on his back is us, not the Democratic Congress. This was as overt a betrayal as I’ve ever seen.

absolutely agree. did you see my analysis in yesterday’s thread? in four parts: intro, part 1, part 2 and part 3

what i was trying to say is that recognition that it was a betrayal is a positive thing. it’s not like everyone’s convinced themselves that all is well and that the dem leadership has done everything that they could.

I just read all this. What great work.