Christy and Selise:
When I called Senator Levin’s office on Fri. am to ask him to oppose FISA gutting legislation, the guy who answered the phone at Levin’s office told me that the senate would not be voting on any FISA legislation before vacation. I called back today to ask why he said that in light of what took place, and he said that Levin believed that they wouldn’t consider it as of Fri. am but that they hadn’t known that it would be “forced upon them” and that the President would say they could not leave until they resolved FISA. I said why didn’t they just stay but not acceed to the Repugs, he said that it was “up to the majority leader” and that Levin didn’t vote that way.

wow. that’s very important information – especially given levin’s role is trying to craft an alternative bill. thank you.

selise @ 230

one thing i’d like to point out (for anyone who might be offended that i’m being critical of nancy pelosi and other democratic leaders

“Critical,” is it? The bastard declared her and the majority leader toadies of the traitor in the white house, and you are asserted something similar. I think you’re CROCKED! Do you have any idea left of the propriety of not going off half-cocked on your assumptions?

where exactly did i go off half-cocked on my assumptions?

pardon me, but who went combing through the congressional record? who called their representative’s office to talk with the aide who worked on fisa and then to the house rules committee aide who worked on fisa? all this to figure out as much as i could of the procedural rules used last week.

yes, i made some statements starting on friday – but they were based on what i was seeing and hearing on c-span…and i didn’t stop there – i checked it out and tried to learn more this week.

if my analysis is factually wrong – show me where.
if there are flaws in my reasoning – please point them out to me.

one of the benefits of posting our thinking here is so that we can reason together. i’m not going to refrain from describing what is in front of me because someone might think it improper. please, let us reason together.

‘cuz, i don’t like thinking what i’m thinking, and if you can make a counter argument – i’d love to hear it. but right now, it looks to me like glenn is right.

one thing i’d like to point out (for anyone who might be offended that i’m being critical of nancy pelosi and other democratic leaders

“Critical,” is it? The bastard declared her and the majority leader toadies of the traitor in the white house, and you are asserted something similar. I think you’re CROCKED! Do you have any idea left of the propriety of not going off half-cocked on your assumptions? Do you not understand that Andrew Jackson SHOT PEOPLE for less of a slander than the scurrilous crap Greenwald needs to apologize for.

You know, you have a right to burn the flag, but that doesn’t I don’t have the right to go to jail for putting out your lights for it. We’re in very serious trouble, all of us, and the act of slander is NOT “criticism.” To the degree that it is believed — and yet false — it’s a BETRAYAL. It’s a vicious and serious assertion you are making, a measure of your radicalization, and also of your willingness to let your assumptions drive you off cliffs.

Next Fall I plan on working with the Speaker and the Chairpersons and supporting them as much as I can. You folks are encouraging the burning of your own bridges, and not just to them, but to a lot of ordinary Democrats who are PROUD and/or grateful to our loyal leadership, and the many fine works they have accomplished in six months. Greenwald is crocked if he thinks his statement is going to be considered ‘criticism.’ Obviously he has no sense of the non-negotiable dignity of office.

It is hard to believe, but some folk at firedoglake and DailyKOS and Greenwald are going to harrass the Speaker, with extremist accusations like Greenwald’s (on Dem Now!) assertion:

“Greenwald: Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid were scheduled to appear [at Yearly KOS], but they were ordered by George Bush to stay in Washington, and so they were unable to make it.” (DN! transcript)

Which is PATENTLY A LIE. Greenwald LIED through his clenched teeth, but it is a measure of his disaffiliation (in this case, from reality) that he decides to proclaim the Speaker dishonorable and a toady of the President. He doesn’t say as much — if he was honorable he would keep his mouth shut entirely — no, he cloaks it in a naked assertion. It’s time, apparently, to follow GSM Sheehan’s (and overamped Ray MacGovern) bad example, and piss off the Speaker, Chairman Conyers, and everyone else who is important to restoring peace and our rights. They have lost faith, so now they will cheerily ignore THE OPPOSITION (a luxury not shared by the Speaker or Chairman Conyers), and blast our loyal politicians. Apparently there are no Republicans or Blue Dogs who need protesting first.

Several times in the broadcast they tried to make it seem that Bush’s posturing was why the Congress took up FISA (and not, as is actually the case, because the DNI specifically informed Congress that there was a national security issue which needed immediate action. Ruse or not, it was not possible to ignore it.).

Pelosi’s letter to Conyers and Reyes is not mentioned. Nevermind that FISA is a nonfunctional Bandaid — as Greenwald admits –it’s time to ignore the need to rewrite the whole bill, which Reyes and Conyers have been working on for MONTHS, and which cannot be introduced in the last day of the session (as Bushco very well knew — playing the new DCI as a fool), but will have to wait for September — no, Greenwald insists that the Speaker is in collusion with Bush, and her letter is a fraud! I can tell that martial law is only minutes away, isn’t it, Glenn?

For Greenwald, and Dem Now!, identification of the entire caucus with the 29 Blue Dog (and 12 others) who voted with the R on the FISA stopgap is am absolute. Dem Now! pretends that Dems could have passed the better bill in the House — that is clearly untrue, but this willfully-ignorant assertion falls under standard Dem Now! canard that ‘the Dems’ are or MUST function as a monolith. If they don’t, trash the leadership. Nevermind you can count 100% caucus votes on controversial issues since 1789 on your toes. As if the Blue Dogs are Pelosi/Hoyer’s fault! It’s time to bash the leadership for not being able to sway them from their preexisting commitment to Bushco’s policies — as an extention of their guilt that there isn’t 67 loyal votes in the Senate. How dare Reid miss YearlyKOS after working late the night before! Glenn Greenwald commands you to attend, or be branded a traitor!

I hope that the Speaker and Chairman Conyers will still work with those of us who are among the SANE, who don’t panic at a coup and lose all faith in our elected officials or our government. All of a sudden, the government is supposed to function flawlessly — all laws followed — all members of the caucus — WITHOUT EXCEPTION — voting exactly as Glenn Greenwald dictates. Who elected him is not clear — but his SLANDER of the Speaker is an unforgiveable act unless he apologizes for his lying assertion. If it was sarcasm, then he has an extremist form of it. Has he considered a radio show?

rocket scientist @ 28

OT Speaking of not playing with a full deck, have you seen this article about God and the teaching of mathematics in Texas.

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=a3bha

Is this a hoax? If this is for real, then things are even worse than I had realized.

Which fundie madrassa academy is this allegedly from? I can’t make out the insignia at the top.

As much as I would like this to be real, I have my doubts.

It’s real…go to the jabberwonk site and click on their link. It’s pretty much a straightforward Christian School site…but everything in the curriculum section emphasises strongly the “hand of God” actively in everything…even the events of History.

It’s almost as if the Social Studies program suggests that wars and famines and other natural disasters are curses sent by God.

selise @ 223

H.R. 3356…it is this decision (among others) – by the house leadership – to use an inappropriate rule (one that is supposed to be used for non-controversial measures) that doomed H.R. 3356 to failure.

I see you are correct. Sorry for my misapprehension. How would the more general process have worked, timewise? It is pretty difficult, as you note, to get these details — but to listen to the Pelosi-bashers, there is no mention — until Sestak’s comments today — of this other bill. Don’t you find that strange?

thanks for coming back and taking the time to read my earlier comments. i really appreciate that.

i think there was lots of discussion of H.R. 3356 in the threads here – but let’s be clear, we didn’t see the bill until around the time it was defeated in the house vote friday. by then it was less significant than the bill the house would ultimately pass… so of course, focus moved on to s.1927.

also, it certainly looked (from watching c-span friday) that the house leadership was NOT trying to get their bill passed. that is why i went back and tried to get more details… i couldn’t believe what i was seeing. but sadly, it was the truth… there was no effort to actually pass H.R. 3356 – it was all theater. i’m angry with a sense of betrayal.

i think it’s important to note how hard senator feingold (and whitehouse) worked to stop this debacle… if only efforts like their’s had the support of pelosi and reid.

passage of s.1927 was bipartisan – because it never would have passed without the active assistance of the the leaders of a democratic congress.

from my comment at 129:

one thing i’d like to point out (for anyone who might be offended that i’m being critical of nancy pelosi and other democratic leaders – that people here genuinely like)… i’m not trying to say that dem leadership in congress are bad or evil… or that we aren’t better off now than we were last year.

but it’s up to us to make sure they are representing us and doing right by the country – and they need to be doing better. so, it’s our job to help them. we don’t do anyone any favors by not shining the light as brightly as we can on them too.

good for glenn and good for democracy now! for shining that light.

i have been a democrat all my voting life. i have never been so disappointed in the party. we were having a discussion in work a while ago, have the democrats become “Quislings” or ” Vichy French”?
helen kenney

190 House Dems (five/sixths of the caucus), including all of the leadership, voted NAY on the FISA bill. Though Dem Now! and Glenn Greenwald PRETEND that that makes the bill “bipartisan,” that claim is ridiculous.