Think Progress has some video and a transcript of Rep. Joe Sestak’s speech at CAP yesterday. And I wanted to highlight a particular aspect of his speech. Sestak voted against the abomination of a FISA bill, and he had this to say about how the entire mess came about:
How could we have not have stood up for rights of civil liberties while ensuring the proper ability to go and listen, and just stayed during the recess if necessary. And I understand that our leadership in the caucus has to worry about how the public will perceive it, but I also know this, that ultimately, we have to, as Benjamin Franklin said, be concerned that those who give up…liberty in the name security, deserve neither liberty or security. This is a time that I strongly believe, we should have stood up and said no. Attorney General Gonzales, we’re not going to let you decide the guidelines upon which you’ll listen in on Americans….
Sestak noted that the administration had rejected a compromise bill worked out between Congressional leaders and Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell. “We made the three major changes that [McConnell] wanted,” said Sestak. “The issue here is they just don’t want to come to the FISA court. That’s enough to tell me we need them to.”
“We had voted for a bill the evening before that had actually brought together a proper balance of the civil liberties of our citizens,” said Sestak. “We should have brought that bill up Saturday, instead of the Senate bill…we could have gotten it the next morning under majority votes. And that would have meant probably that we had to stay in session this week, and that would have forced the Senate to come back and deal with it.”… (emphasis mine)
And there you have it. In case you needed extra incentive as to why public accountability on this issue is important, here it is: expedience should never, ever take precedence over standing up for our civil liberties and the Constitution. Period.
I’m still working on digging out the details on how all of this could possibly have happened the way it did, but the more I dig in, the more the scenario that Jane and Matt laid out is looking pretty spot on — and it makes me more determined than ever to make certain that our elected “leadership” finds out just how wrong that is. From every single one of us. Because “leadership” ought to mean that you think more than one move ahead, and don’t allow yourself to get snookered by a bunch of lying neoconmen on a legislative bender.
So, what are you doing today to hold your elected officials accountable? Do tell…
UPDATE: Pulling this from Jane up from the comments:
Anybody have info on he public appearances of Reid, Pelosi, Emanuel, Hoyer or Clyburn during recess, we’re still looking (I know Pelosi’s going to be in CT for Chris Murphy and Reid has a Town Hall coming up on the 15th, but that’s it so far.)
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zed
Uno!
nice zed, petwrecker…
quatro
OT – there is something seriously wrong with Bob Murray, the mine owner…
I notice that the refresh comments button stops working so well when a new post is up. Deliberate?
Well I’m just on a drive by here, I’m scrambling to find work. The 4 prospects I had been working on for this month have fallen through. It’s quite a predicament if I say so myself.
I do want to commend everyone for what they are doing.
Anybody have info on he public appearances of Reid, Pelosi, Emanuel, Hoyer or Clyburn during recess, we’re still looking (I know Pelosi’s going to be in CT for Chris Murphy and Reid has a Town Hall coming up on the 15th, but that’s it so far.)
PB at 6 — No — it’s the drag on the servers when the comments load gets to a certain level when combined with a traffic spike. No conspiracy, just a technological fact of life.
Most excellent, Christy and Joe!
Meanwhile, in some interesting good news:
Remember the Fourth Circuit, and how the right-wingers worked to try and pack that circuit full of archconservatives and Federalist Society hacks?
Well, guess what? Because of a) a large number of vacancies left by cons leaving for corporate paychecks and b) Bush’s unwillingness to try to push his usual hacktacular nominees through the newly-Democratic Congress, suddenly the Fascist Fourth is now verging on being a fair court again.
OldCoastie @ 3
popped my cherry :~)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Actually, it’s kinda useful. When it drags, I check upstairs…
OldCoastie @ 5
I totally agree. I only saw part of his press conference on TV last night and saw him talking about how important the coal industry is and that we wouldn’t be able to function without it.
OldCoastie @ 5
The guy’s definitely not playing with a full deck…
I’m sending the DNC and the DSCC letters stating that I’m sending the money they requested to the ACLU instead over the FISA vote. I will put my own postage on their envelopes though.
OldCoastie @ 5
I read that as “mime owner.” Who owns mimes these days?
Exactement. That’s how I get the zeds…*g*
I sent a NARAL letter back to them telling them I would never give them a dime until Nancy Keegan goes away because of their support of Joey Lies and their refusal to support the Alito filibuster.
Sorry Christy,
But I donot buy for one minute the notion that Pelosi got punked and didn’t understand the House Rules. That just doesn’t pass the smell test.
She’s been there too long and she has wanted the job of Speaker for too long.
She did this on purpose. There is no other logical explaination.
It’s just the “why” that eludes me. There are several possibilites, but I cannot settle on one:
1) she has some weird idea that Dems need to behave better than Reps and that this “dignity” will set us above them in the minds of voters. In other words, she consistantly brings a knife to gun fight.
2) She actually believes that Bushco would be able to spin any attemtpt by the GOP to cede all rights to the President as Dems being “soft on Terror”
3) she thought she was getting a quid pro quo. For example the Reps went out of there way during a very long day of floor debates to cooperate on the Environmental bill.
I watched the whole thing. It was bi partisan love fest. Of curse, Shrub has threatened to veto the bill.
4) After those idiots on the Intellgece Committee allowed their words to be twisted ONCE AGAIN, she felt she had no ammo
5) none of the above, something even stupiderh
Phoenix Woman @ 10
That IS good news. How much influence does that have on W venue shopping? Is there another wingnut district that canbe used in its stead?
OldCoastie @ 5
Someone a day or so ago said that he was connected to some big politician, but can’t remember who.
LHP at 19 — Who said she got punked? They were bluffed by the GOP, and they made a very bad call. Re-read the post.
lhp – I’m voting on #3 – she thought she was going to get something she didn’t…
Feinstein’s the one that has me puzzled as well… she’s not passing the smell test at all…
Loo Hoo. @ 15
Make that the DSCC and the DCCC (Senate and House re-election committees). Howard is over at the DNC and I’m still trusting him.
EPU’d from “Progressive Politics Matters: SCHIP, Immigration And GOP Lies”. Regarding the failure to vaccinate, the piece appears in Forbes.
The article claims that,
but fails to identify the 10 states. Many other disturbing statistics are detailed.
SharonRB @ 13
And then there was the weird rant about the mine workers union and federal oversight.
It is nice to know that folks like Joe Sestak and Wes Clark understand things. It shows that not all of the stars in the military are blind to the Constitution.
OT Speaking of not playing with a full deck, have you seen this article about God and the teaching of mathematics in Texas.
http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=a3bha
Is this a hoax? If this is for real, then things are even worse than I had realized.
Joe Sestak summed it up:
BushCo doesn’t want to go to the FISA Court and that’s exactly why we have to make them go to the FISA Court.
Phoenix Woman @ 10
Well DiFi voted for Southwick…But I hope you are right…no more judges until after 01/20/09…even if the ‘08 elections go well for us, un-doing the damage done to SCOTUS and the Federal Judiciary is going to be a huge problem.
Christy, Damn Right!
Please note: The FISA fix, in effect, turns the NSA over to AGAG (and thus to Karl Rove, the master of opposition reserch) through January 2009, which includes the 2008 election cycle. Specifically, until the fix’s 2/4/08 sunset, Gonzales can approve year-long surveillance programs targeting any communications that he “reasonably suspects” might go outside the U.S. (We all know how that’s going to work.)
OldCoastie @ 23
DiFi’s been failing that test for awhile. I stopped voting for her.
Tomorrow our amazing new Congressman Chris Murphy will be coming to town. I mostly want to thank him for his progressive votes, which included not voting for that FISA abomination. But I want to ask him how he thinks we can undo the incredible damage that is being perpetrated on this country.
As for Joe Lieberman…I am waiting for an answer as to any constituent meetings. Or will he be in hiding? Stay tuned.
dakine01 @ 27
agreed, it does give me faith
great! i’m gonna use this thread to post the info i promised yesterday – from reading and talking with House aides.
it won’t even be OT. but it will get caught in the filters – too many links (sorry mods!). multi-part comment coming up….
p.s. preview is isn’t working for me – so finger’s crossed that i don’t mess up too much…
Pelosi nor anyone else got punked. That’s just providing cover for them. I want to know why and I don’t want some political stratigic mumbo-jumbo that insults our intelligence. WHY, Nancy? Have you ever heard the phrase, “Just say no”. Democrats sound more and more like Tony Snow, who is on right now.
OK. Call it a “bad call”. All the same, lame excuse.
rocket scientist @ 28
I think Mathematics is an excellent language in which to speculate about the existence and nature of God. Sunday sermons on Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem would be a wonderful thing.
I called and e-mailed both senators and my one rep yesterday. I sent an e-mail to Bayh again today. I might call the offices and let them know I’m still pissed about this FISA vote.
If we sell out the constitution and slide into tyranny, NONE of our pet issues from abortion, the environment, to labor issues, will have a chance of being fixed.
If your reps vote correctly on all of these important issues, but then voted for this FISA, they might as well have voted wrong on all those issues, because they’re handing this government over to a dictator.
There’s nothing on Rahm’s site and his Chicago office apparently knows nothing but I have a call in to his press secretary asking for his schedule … will report back as I get news.
QuakerGirl at 37 — Do you play poker? “Bad call” has a very specific meaning. As in, bad strategy, not having any balls, failing to read the tells that the other side is bluffing, etc., etc.
Don’t get condescending with me when I know exactly what I am saying and it is certainly not providing cover for anyone, thank you very much.
OT–(Apologies, Christy)
Interesting tidbit:
My tarnished new Democratic Congresscritter Harry Mitchell who unseated JD Hayworth just astounds me. Mitchell has a degree in Political Science AND taught High School Government for 28 years.
He voted for the FISA bill to remove MY rights. I am trying to get a meeting to ask him why he thinks he has the RIGHT to remove MY Fourth Amendment Right?
My next comment will be that I would rather have JD because I always know he was going to screw me where I have to be shocked and surprised that a teacher of government for 28yrs would throw away the rights of Arizonians!
looseheadprop @ 19
I think it was playing defense for the ‘08 elections. She knows the thugs control the MSM and the Dems would take a huge beating if they didn’t pass the bill and a potentially fatal beating if an attack did happen. I think the Dem leadership is going “all in” with the ‘08 election. Is it good for the country or good strategy? I don’t know.
rocket scientist @ 28
God invented Mathematical consistency. That means things are not contradictory. Of course Kurt Godel proved Mathematical consistency.
How was it, that the truly awful S.1927 (see here and here), was passed in a Democratic majority House last week?
During the many hours spent watching C-SPAN on Friday and Saturday, and in the days since, we’ve been trying to understand what happened (see, for example, the especially helpful comment threads starting here, here and here). Yesterday I spent some more time reading and talking with a very helpful House Rules Committee aide. This will be my attempt to summarize my understanding of what we’ve already discussed and to add my new info from yesterday.
First, in Part I, is a timeline of events for the House – necessary background for Part II. Please let me know if you see any errors or omissions.
In Part II, based on my conversation with the House Rules Committee aide, I’ll try to answer two specific questions: “Why was H.R. 3356 (the negotiated, not-as-bad version) brought to a vote on the house floor under a suspension of house rules so that passage required 2/3 votes? a procedure normally used for non-controversial measures?” and “Why was S.1927 brought to a vote on the house floor without a rule, using instead a unanimous consent agreement that allowed passage by simple majority?”
Answer to Broder’s Refrain.
Broder’s question: Why can’t the Democrats just work with the Republicans to acheive a compromise on legislation important to the American people? The Democrats are at fault for not trying.
Answer: When they try, they just get punked by the Republicans.
Comment: Not only that, the Right Wing press (see Washington Post) blames the Democrats for trying to negotiate with Republicans in good faith and getting punked for it.
Next time we hear this Broder and Leiberman refrain, we have this ready answer.
In a little under three weeks the Minnesota State Fair begins. It is a must-attend event for politicians in this state, where they rub elbows with the common folk.
Amy Klobuchar will hopefully be getting a face-to-face visit from me, and I intend to ask her directly how much time she spent reading the FISA-gutting bill she voted for. And I will let her know how angry I am at her vote, and that matters involving stripping people of their rights and weakening the Constitution deserve more attention than the gentle assurances of one of Bush’s cronies.
Oh yeah, maybe Tim Walz will be there too and he can get the same message.
Jane Hamsher @ 8
jane – i posted some info on a hoyer appearance in your previous thread (city and day info only, location and time TBA). will go look for it later and bring the link to this thread.
Bilbo @ 25
There was a program on NPR (I don’t trust ‘em) yeserday claiming the the kids that are getting screwed vaccine-wise are the kids with insurance. It now costs the better part of $1000 for all the vaccines that are recommended and the government is picking it up for the uninsured but they’ve run out of funds for the under-insured — those come from a different pocket.
What was bogus in their report was the underlying assumption of a fixed, rigid pricing. Those prices are negotiable when things are purchased in very large quantities, e.g., by the government. The problem is that standard medicine is something of a cottage industry, where the individual practice and/or pharmacy has very little leverage with its suppliers. They just pass along to the customers whatever the corporations please to charge.
I called all the D senators who voted for FISA & left strongly scolding messages.
Maloney, my useless rep (she votes the right way, which is the only good thing she does) is not having any constituent events during the August recess. I’ll go visit her local office later in the month after I see my sick brother upstate.
As for Clinton & Schumer . . . enuf said.
TJ @ 47
YES!
puppethead at 48 — I just heard that the GOP-led legislature adjourned without doing any funding at all whatsoever for new infrastructure costs for the bridge that collapsed. OMG, what a nightmare for you guys…really thoughtful on their part, I must say.
I was definitely disappointed that my Senator, Amy Klobuchar, whom I not only voted–but also campaigned–for voted Yea for FISA. Highly disappointed. She campaigned as a progressive, and IIRC, she was on ActBlue.
JF @ 16
At last count, I had three.
Agreeing with looseheadprop here, it was a one two punch. Reid put up S.1927 sponsored by Mitch McConnell. It needed 60 votes to pass and lo and behold it did 60-28. The Senate then proceeded to defeat the Levin bill 43-45 and then adjourned for the month. The Senate version was sent to the House. There a Democratic bill was set up to fail with a 2/3 majority needed to pass while the McConnell bill was set up to pass with a simple majority.
This all didn’t just happen. It was arranged much as the MCA vote was. Reid and Pelosi rigged votes so that Democrats could vote against the bill and still have the bill pass.
Pelosi’s lame call now to reform the reform rings hollow. Leaders in both the House and Senate have wide latitude in what comes up for a vote. They weren’t blindsided. They were the organizers of this fiasco.
katymine @ 43
Would you like an out-of-districter to put in a scolding call? I’d introduce myself by saying that I’m calling all the Ds who voted for FISA.
OT: Regarding mine collapse.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q…..tsdesc.pdf Nellis Air Force Range nuclear test site caliente&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Seismic activity in Nevada, again, in Caliente, Nevada…see link to Nuke testing site.
Seismic activity in Utah within last day, again, which has prevented rescue work.
Coinkydink?
Biodun @ 42
(my bold)
Just WHAT THE flying HELL is Biden talking about? Take Mexico and Canada to the mat to fix NAFTA???? What’s wrong with NAFTA is not CAUSED by Canada or Mexico. Too Funny.
OK Sestak…where was your “objection” when Hoyer sought unanimous consent to bring that Senate abomination to the floor? Why weren’t you standing up against this THEN?
You are complicit. Your pretty speech here is hollow. You could have stopped this train with an “OBJECTION!” but you were silent.
Thanks for nothing. Words are nothing. Actions are everything. No money, no votes for you until you all take ACTION and totally reverse this abomination.
Part I – The House Timeline (for the Senate timeline, please see pow wow’s comment):
Sunday, July 29, 2007
From the ACLU:
Tuesday, July 31, 2007
From the Washington Post:
Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007
The House Committee on Rules reported out H.Res. 600 (Rules committee Report #110-291). Included under this rule was an unspecified FISA amendment. This resolution allowed the “Speaker to entertain motions that the House suspend the rules” for “A bill to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to establish a procedure for authorizing certain electronic surveillance.”
From “Floor Procedure In The U.S. House Of Representatives“:
Friday, Aug 3, 2007 (floor summary)
At 1:19 PM the House took up H.Res. 600 and it was passed (228-196) at 5:14 PM after heated debate. In the midst of that debate, it finally emerged that the FISA bill to be considered if made in order by passage of H.Res. 600, would be H.R. 3356. (see congressional record pages H09663-H09675)
At 5:11 PM, Spencer Ackerman of TPM reports, “Bush Nixed Dem-DNI FISA Deal“
At 7:20 PM, John Conyers moved “to suspend the rules and pass the bill (H.R. 3356).” After debate, H.R.3356 failed at 8:58 PM by a vote of 218 in favor, and 207 opposed after debate. (see congressional record pages H09685-H09695)
During the debate, Nancy Pelosi stated that:
At 8:05 PM the House Rules Committee posted a Notice of Action which included H.Res.613 Rules Committee Report #110-298 and H.Res.614 Rules Committee Report #110-299.
H.Res.613, would have, like the previous H.Res.600, allowed the Speaker to entertain motions that the House suspend the rules for an unspecified FISA amendment. Passage of a FISA amendment via this resolution would require a 2/3 vote.
H.Res.614, on the other hand, would allow a simple majority vote for consideration of an unspecified FISA amendment on Saturday, Sunday or Monday (August 4th through the 6th). Neither of these resolutions would be used.
Saturday, August 4, 2007 (floor summary)
At 8:18 PM Mr. Hoyer asked unanimous consent that, among other things, A that it be in order at any time on the legislative day of August 4, 2007, to consider S. 1927 in the House under the following terms: All points of order against the bill and against its consideration are waived except those arising under clause 10 of rule XXI; The bill shall be considered as read; The previous question shall be considered as ordered on the bill to its final passage without intervening motion except: (a) 1 hour of debate equally divided among and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the committee on the Judiciary and the chairman and ranking minority member of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence; and (b) one motion to recommit…” There was no objection (see congressional record page H09952).
At 8:31 PM Mr. Reyes called up S.1927 for debate. At 10:19 PM the bill passed 227 to 183 (see congressional record pages H09952-H09966)
rocket scientist @ 28
Which fundie
madrassaacademy is this allegedly from? I can’t make out the insignia at the top.As much as I would like this to be real, I have my doubts.
LHP at 19- all of the above?
As I wrote before, I call out congresscritters from both houses when they do good AND when they do bad in the Drinking Liberally bulletin, and encourage any other drinking liberally chapyter leaders who vists FDL to do the same. Then, I call up the various critters and read what i wrote.
that said, Bobby Casey’s office hates my guts right now. I’m sure the pro-life waterhead wishes he could abort ME!
Hugh @ 56
Precisely and absolutely correct. Sestak’s protest/whine is bullshit. Where was his objection to unanimous consent? The Party is absolutely complicit in this because they WANT this authoritarianism. Period.
OT–breaking:
Steve-AR @ 44
Glenn Greenwald over at salon.com makes the case that Rove et. al. fought ‘06 on the ’soft on terror’ and ‘wiretapping is necessary’ memes and lost in proportion to how hard this strategy was played. People are tired of this crap and aren’t taking it anymore.
So, if Nancy et. al. knew what they were doing they would know they should not fear these attacks for ‘08. On the contrary, folding to this nonsense is a threat to Dem prospects in ‘08.
allan_in_upstate @ 61
If you go to http://www.jabberwonk.com/ and put your mouse over the link for “Texas high school description of math class” it shows up as a link to page on chfbs.org That is the website for Castle Hills First Baptist School. I’m afraid that is not a hoax, but is, in fact, a real curriculum description.
Part II: “Why was H.R. 3356 (the negotiated, not-as-bad version) brought to a vote on the house floor under a suspension of house rules so that passage required 2/3 votes? a procedure normally used for non-controversial measures?” and “Why was S.1927 brought to a vote on the house floor without a rule, using instead a unanimous consent agreement that allowed passage by simple majority?”
As I now understand it (thanks to a patient House Rules aide – all errors are my own), there are two standard ways to bring a bill like H.R. 3356 to a quick floor vote. The most common way would have been to use a special rule like H.Res.614 that would allow a simple majority vote – but would require giving the minority the right to a motion to recommit. A motion to recommit would mean that the minority would have the option to submit one amendment to the bill – and in this case could have used S.1927 as an amendment to substitute for the language of H.R. 3356.
On Friday night, though, this type of special rule was not used – instead H.Res.600 (H.Res.613 is similar) was used to allow suspension of the rules and voting to pass by 2/3 majority. This type of procedure does not require giving the minority the option to recommit.
So, why did the House leadership decide, on Wednesday, to bring H.R. 3356 to a vote under a suspension of the rules (which is supposed to only be used for non-controversial measures) on Friday – and then stick with this when negotiations with the DNI collapsed on Friday? Why wasn’t a rule like H.Res.614 used? I can think of a few possible reasons:
Next, why did the House leadership decide, probably on Saturday, to use the very unusual procedure of a unanimous consent agreement for S.1927? What I was told is that the final result of going this route was the same as if H.Res.614 had been used – except that is was much faster (fewer votes, less debate). So, if the decision was to get S.1927 passed, this was the fastest way to get it done. Furthermore, if any congressmember had objected to the unanimous consent agreement, unlike in the Senate, it would not have proceeded to a supra-majority vote. Instead, H.Res.614 would have been used… and since the outcome would be the same (only it would take longer), there was no reason for anyone to object.
So, I conclude that the House leadership decided to pass the administration bill, S.1927, in the quickest way possible… and that the vote Friday night on H.R. 3356 was just a bit of political theater. Perhaps they wanted to show that they had negotiated a not-so-bad bill that was more responsible in addressing the administration’s request/demand. Perhaps they wanted to make it look like they were trying to fight against President Bush’s unreasonable demands – even though they had decided not to. Maybe it was a bit of both.
And if you think it looks bad for the House leadership – just take a look at the Senate.
Looks like Clyburn will be golfing on Saturday…
http://www.thetandd.com/articl…..185038.txt
OT– Musharraf just picked up his toys and left!
This is potentially explosive.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap…..99444.html
eCAHNomics @57 – Please do….
His staff are saying ….”wait until you receive Mitchell’s letter explaining the reasons for the vote”…. NO explanation but some letter that will be sent at my expense knowing what it will say… Blah..Blah…Blah… “you don’t understand how government works”…. blah blah blah… it sunsets…. blah.. blah… ya and he used that glossy paper too… wow will I be impressed and educated!
Harry Mitchell
Telephone: (480) 946-2411
Fax: (480) 946-2446
Biodun @ 65
Good. I think all interest groups should hold their endorsements. It’s far too early.
7.3 earthquake near Jakarta, Indonesia.
LS @ 58
Much more likely [ he says, folding up his tin-fail hat ] is that the
“roof and pillar” mining method caused the collapse, and the collapse caused the 3.9 quake.
Exactly the same method caused the collapse of the Azko slat mine near Geneseo, NY,
a few years ago, triggering a 2.5 quake.
It is a dangerous, risky way of mining.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 41
My intention isn’t to offend you by means of condensation towards you. Far from it. And, yes, I really like to play poker since I was a child. I’m OK at it but certainly wouldn’t go on national TV. As for “bad call” I see it as an error in judgment at a critical time. And, yes, my patience are frayed at this point.
I presume he has “adequate” health insurance (pace last thread):
katymine @ 71
How much you wanna bet Harry’s letter tracks DiFi’s almost exactly?
JF @ 68
Yikes.
They have been in business since 1981.
Meaning that they may have graduates in the Bush administration.
Is this the sort of place you send your kid to give them a leg-up getting into Regent?
Elliott @ 29
par for the course, Bush Kangaroo Protocol is pure Bushit.
how about getting Sen. Whitehouse’s “Whitehouse protocol chart” to our elected reps.? especial delivery…confront with visual snapshot of our current Abu and DOJ crisis.
katymine @ 70
Done. Finished off with that I was active in politics and that we were not going to vote for Ds in 08 who cave into W.
OT: Just say NO to Shell gas:
Ben Stevens, the former state senator who has come under scrutiny along with his father in a broad federal public corruption probe, has taken a new job far from his Anchorage home.
The younger Stevens has been hired as a crewman aboard a work boat supporting Dutch oil giant Shell’s planned Arctic Ocean exploratory drilling campaign.
OldCoastie @ 3
I was reading a story online last night (AP/Earthlink) that the seismologists are saying the mine collapse was the earthquake – it’s way too shallow for a regualr quake, even in Utah (the USGS says about a mile down), and they were saying the waveforms were all wrong also (I don’t quite follow what they were saying: something about the forces being in the wrong direction). The mine owner is trying to say it’s the other way around, which I suspect would be to his benefit since it would make it Not His Problem.
Either way, I think that the trapped miners are dead. That was a big collapse, if it registered over Richter 3.
NANCY PELOSI IN PORTSMOUTH NH TODAY AT 4:30PM!!!
I am stuck at work in Mass, so I can’t go BUT, if there is anyone in Northern Mass, NH Seacoast or Southern Maine, Pelosi will be doing a press conference with Carol Shea-Porter at the Portsmouth Library at 4:30pm TODAY. Here are the specifics of the email sent to me this AM:
Press conference:
Wednesday August 8 at 4:30 PM (please arrive at 4pm. Levenson meeting room of the Portsmouth Public Library, 175 Parrott Avenue.
Directions: From the “Rusty Hammer” restaurant (corner of Pleasant and State streets): take right onto Pleasant St. coming north on State street. Go short distance on Pleasant past Citizen’s Bank, then take right onto Junkins Avenue, then immediate right onto Parrott Avenue. Library is on the right (quarter-mile down) immediately following school building on the right just before Richards Avenue. Library is brand-new and has no signage as yet.
Selise and Powwow – this is awesome work. I’ve sent links to the two summaries out to a large list of our blog colleagues … let’s hope that helps move this along.
LS @ 73
USGS link 7.4, 70 mi from Jakarta.
FISA was a bad “fix” by congress after Nixon abused the system. And now, thirty years later, we are all trying to get original FISA procedure back.
While I agree with the short term goal of Feingold et al and intend to help any way possible, I think we on the left need to remember much more of the fourth amendment needs to be restored than what we are considering this month/yr.
To me this is another win for the Blue Dog trianulators who helped neo fascists game the system with fear tactics against the so called left/civil liberty crowd… simply because we are fighting for a result that will leave our privacy completely compromised with no real respect for fourth amendment protections.
It’s like debating injection vs the chair instead of fighting to end state executions.
That said, Sestaks argument is one of the best things I have heard him say.. I hope in the short term the Dems use these talking points
http://www.sloopo.com/index.ph…..-response/
Despite his call for the nation to show a “surge of support” for U.S. forces in Iraq, Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney on Wednesday defended his five sons’ decision not to enlist.
“One of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping me get elected because they think I’d be a great president.”
Romney’s five sons range in age from 37 to 26 and have worked as real estate developers, sports marketers and advertising executives. They are now actively campaigning for their father and have a “Five Brothers” blog on Romney’s campaign Web site.
allan_in_upstate @ 62
Here is a link to the school
http://chfbs.org/academics.html
FISA text and vote:
House
Senate
Not really OT, New Froomkin up with lede being Mike McConnell
fdl reader @ 67
God I HOPE it hurts their prospects. There is no point to them winning anything if winning STILL means the MCA is in force (it is, no movement there at all), the Iraq Debacle continues (it is and it will, especially with Hillary), illegal wiretaps are continuing (they will…with the recent loving blessing of the nazi-lite party – the Dems – the GOP is the full-on nazi party), and illegal rendition continues (it will…Hillary’s boy Bill STARTED that shit!).
They are worse than worms. All of them are complicit. ALL of them are giving us exactly what they WANT. They don’t WANT to roll anything back, they want to EXPAND it for themselves and their corporate masters.
Forget the meme that they were weak and cowardly or tricked. THEY OWN IT KNOWINGLY!
There are so many links to go through, but I saw a diary at Kos this morning that said that there were 6 missing/no votes of Dems, and 6 missing/no votes of Repubs, for the FISA vote in the Senate, and that it was the first time so many missing voters for a bill since 2003.
Frank33 – this is a joke, right?
P J Evans @ 80
I mentioned this earlier, and no one paid attention. :(
I also mentioned the 4th Circuit thing earlier, and no one paid attention then either. :(
[end of sulk]
I find it very disturbing that this asshole Murray is focused on attacking the UMW and covering his own ass when, just as you say, those guys are probably dying down there.
He said something about “until they are rescued, dead or alive.” “Rescued” dead?? Where is the OUTRAGE?
if you only click on one of my links – don’t miss this dkos diary on the Senate.
Thank you for your hard work on this, Christy.
Teasing apart the innards of legislative sausage this rotten must be excruciating. We are truly grateful for your skill and dedication..
The dawgs are terrific in comments these days, so I doubt I can add anything that hasn’t already been said, but I’ll try, just in case (don’t have time right now read whole comment thread *hangs head in shame*)
My 2cts:
It is every bit as important to THANK and ENCOURAGE those who voted as Rep. Joe Sestak did, and who show the kind of courage he does in his statements,
EVERY BIT as important as it is to chastise and swat upside-the-head those who shame themselves and our whole country by enabling this dreadful administration to continue on its horrific path of destruction.
The Joe Sestaks out there need to know they have our support, not just in $$, but also regular doses of kudos openly spoken and sent to them, perhaps even with cc to what passes for leadership these days.
P J Evans @ 81
usually in an earthquake, you can feel the earth jerk both up and down (and side to side) and that is reflected on the seismograph… this one only showed down movement – indicating a collapse… “Bob” does seem to be on an ass-covering mission.
Millineryman @ 7
((((Millineryman))))
wigwam @ 50
I can’t comment on who pays what, but I believe the $1000 figure. Vaccines aren’t cheap to begin with (anything that you inject is going to require safeguards, and they aren’t cheap), and many of the newer ones are still covered by patents. The people who invented them expect to get paid for their work.
selise @ 95
Yes. That is the diary I refer to at #92.
TobyWollin @ 93
I just swiped the Romney story from reddit.com. He does have 5 sons campaigning bravely within the indigenous state of Iowa. I do not know about the quotes.
Pelosi Event.
This was up last night from Pow Wow. Looks like the event may have just ended:
[snip]
Anyone near Concord, NH tomorrow, and willing to help out your with-it new Congressman Hodes a little in return for a possible chance to buttonhole Nancy Pelosi about FISA?
CyndiM says:
August 7th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Short notice but:
Pelosi will be at a lunch reception with
Congressman Paul Hodes tomorrow:
August 8, 2007
12 p.m. – 1:30 p.m.
Kimball House at the Capitol Center for the Arts
44 South Main Street, Concord, NH 03301
[Another dial-up excuse here for no-can-do on video feedback.]
Thanks, selise for those two posts. It clears up for me how the fix was put in. In your options, I go with 3. I think they wanted to go with the Senate version because (like the rest of the process) it was geared to get them out of town as rapidly as possible.
They could have stuck with HR 3356 but if they had they might have been in session most of this week. This was never about Executive overreach or national security. It was about vacation time.
Here’s part of what DiFi has to say:
As a member of both the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary Committees, I have been briefed on the operational details of the electronic surveillance program and investigated its legality. As you may know, the Department of Justice announced that the FISA Court had approved the program and that is now subject to judicial review. I was pleased by this development as I long have argued from the beginning that the program could and should be conducted in accordance with the FISA law, which requires a court order for the collection of the contents of any electronic or telephone communication.
Bilbo @ 25
This link may be of interest.
TobyWollin @ 93
Not.
DiFi again:
The Senate Intelligence Committee, of which I am a member, is actively reviewing a legislative request from the Executive Branch to “modernize” FISA. I am actively involved in this review and hope to ensure that any legislation produced by the Committee strikes the right balance between strengthening national security and upholding privacy rights.
N=1 @ 96
Millineryman — I remember your story, which you shared with us a while back. Very much hope things get better for you very soon.
Adie @ 96
addendum: Just read what some of you guys think of Sestak. So I’ll back off full support. I don’t know the guy. But I stand by the concept of reward to the dedicated, courageous ones.
That vague enuf for everyone? *sigh*
Bonus – Part III: What went wrong? what we can do about it?
Why did the House and Senate leaders work to pass the administration’s bill? By this action, they didn’t just destroy all the protections from abuse FISA was meant to provide – they also undermined all their attempts (real or not) at congressional oversight of Alberto Gonzales.
Why was there not more and better communication from the House leadership to us? Why did the House leadership spend, according to the ACLU, “the entire week negotiating with the DNI and cut out ALL the civil liberties groups.”
Was it incompetence? Was it that civil liberties are just not important to most democrats in congress (including those in the leadership)? Was it that the fear-mongering (justified or not) scared them into acting irrationally? Was it pressure for reactionary dems – especially the freshmen in the House? Are they really just frightened of being called “weak”?
From Glenn Greenwald:
Whatever the motivation for this complete capitulation by the congressional leadership – this isn’t the first time it’s happened since gaining the majority (Iraq escalation funding, H.CON.R.21, S.AMDT.2073, the pulled Iran Resolution and broken promise for a stand alone bill, the secret trade deal). It’s our job to call them on it – after all they work for us… and sunlight is a good thing for Democrats as well as Republicans.
I want our congressional leaders to act like they believe what Howard Dean said at Y2Kos (transcript from Renee in Ohio):
Our congressional leaders need to put our country’s principles above their 2008 election plans. Starting now.
LS @ 91
The 12 non-voters:
Alexander (R-TN)
Boxer (D-CA)
Bunning (R-KY)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Gregg (R-NH)
Harkin (D-IA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
Murray (D-WA)
Frank Probst @ 98
Of course they get paid. They get paid what the market will bear. Unfortunately, because of the fragmentation of the U.S. market, it bears a lot more per dose than markets where governments do the negotiating.
Oh yeah?
My bold. What happened to Freedom Fries? Paging punaise in La France profonde…
From Froomkin:
“But, Mazzetti writes: ‘In an interview in his office, Mr. McConnell insisted on Tuesday that he never felt direct pressure from the White House to reject the Democratic proposal, and that contrary to statements from senior Democrats he had never given a verbal commitment to their plan.’”
Oh, please. No “direct pressure”? How about indirect pressure? Just take your Medal of Freedom and give the job to someone with a backbone.
Do NOT get fooled. There are NO good guys getting our backs in the House. Sestak, in spite of the purty wurds above is full of it. He withheld his “objection!” when Hoyer called for unanimous consent. By doing this, ALL the Dems, including the “no” votes elected to kiss our 4th and 5th Amendment rights off. They did this consciously and with malice. They are GUILTY and must NOT be rewarded at all untill this and all the other atrocities they have committed are REVERSED (MCA, FISA, Iraq Debacle, Gitmo, torture, etc). They are loudly remaining compliant on all these issues.
Biodun @ 110
Sakozy is a French wingnut. But the interesting thing about this is that there were no plans for them to meet, despite the proximity. Wonder what the backstory is on what made that change.
Sorry for a drive-by OT (and I can’t wait to get back to read all these comments & ideas!), but had to share.
It must be a sign, right?
We know that there’s historical proof that G-d’s mad when he sends a flood. Maybe we can convince the lizard brains this means Fox Noise is evil. ;)
Hugh at 110 — And, so far as I have been able to ascertain thus far, the only one with any legitimate excuse at all is Johnson, who is still recovering from his illness issue. Not one other non-voting Senator has any real reason for not having been there working so far as I can tell.
Praedor at 114 — Don’t hold back, though, what do you really think? *g*
I’ve emailed Webb to try to get a meeting, since I haven’t found any info about public events. If it happens, any Virginia firepups want to come along? (Please?)
I’m going to contact Warner, too, but first I have to read the response his office sent to my demand that he explain his support of the filibuster on the Iraq bill, and that I wasn’t going to accept BS about how bad things might be if we left unless it was balanced against how bad things might be if we don’t. (The message is on my computer at home, and anyway, I’d rather have alcohol handy when I read that.)
Praedor Atrebates @ 65
Still convinced by Arthur? Maybe you should read him more carefully.
And then there’s this:
Hugh @ 109
Boxer, Dorgan, Harkin, and Kerry have very good overall voting records. I’m really disappointed in them.
Dorgan is the only one that comes from a particularly conservative state and had reason to fear a negative impact if he voted “no.”
Redshift @ 120
Having contributed to Webb last year, I feel like a fool.
Hugh @ 111
Someone told me (here a few days ago) that after it is known they have lost, they allow 12 people to leave without voting. You listed 12 people so I assume it is they.
eCAHN @ 115:
Maybe Bush watched Tucker two days ago. The twerp was wondering why they didn’t have plans to meet.
Praedor Atrebates @ 113
I have to agree. No one objected and with votes rigged like this there is no way of telling who stood with us. We can only know the 16 Senators and 41 Representatives who didn’t.
But there are 2 Repugs on the list – so who knows.
ok. that’s it… thanks for your patience with me…
one thing i’d like to point out (for anyone who might be offended that i’m being critical of nancy pelosi and other democratic leaders – that people here genuinely like)… i’m not trying to say that dem leadership in congress are bad or evil… or that we aren’t better off now than we were last year.
but it’s up to us to make sure they are representing us and doing right by the country – and they need to be doing better. so, it’s our job to help them. we don’t do anyone any favors by not shining the light as brightly as we can on them too.
many thanks to all who are contributing to the “you work for us summer tour”…. hope the comments above are a help.
Redshift @ 117
I would be delighted to come along, unless it’s during the week of the 20th when I won’t be around.
Webb has got him some serious ’splainin to do….I signed up for him way back in Feb. ‘06, when he had no money, still had to beat Harris Miller, and everyone thought George F**ktard Allen held the keys to the Bushdom.
Biodun @ 126
That was my first guess, but I couldn’t remember who had made a fuss about it.
Thanks Selise. Amazing work (and beautifully written).
Impeach Roberts.
Impeach Alito.
it’s a long row to hoe, but we may as well start somewhere. it’s got to be done. this is a bullet that must be chewed.
sooner we start the sooner our constitution will be safe(r).
(faint of heart need not apply.)
Redshift @ 117
would be interested in hearing what Warner has to say too.
Someone put him in a museum, already…
Kudos to Sestak on FISA!
However, I saw him on CSPAN last night, and he gave a very lame argument against impeachment. He is one of those who, just because the Clinton impeachment became a mess, has decided that impeachment is off the table. This does nothing but help the Republicans!
Bob in HI
Christy Hardin Smith @ 118
But once they knew the Preznit had DiFi’s 60th vote, why hang around to be contaminated by the bill’s enactment? “Dirty business? No, I wasn’t there for that vote.”
selise @ 129
Forgive you???? Au contraire, selise, many, many thanks! I wish you would be given a front page slot to post all of your work in a single place. It’s first rate investigative reporting, and it sure isn’t over at any MSM venue!
Allan at 124 — If you are expecting perfection from elected officials, you are going to have an awfully long wait. Truly. But what we can realistically expect is that they don’t fuck up the important stuff and, when they do, that we will hold them to account as much as we possibly can do so and, if they fail to learn from their mistakes, we vote them out.
It’s how things work…but we have to play our part in the process in order for it to happen. Take a little time and write Webb a note, discussing your prior donation and how disgusted you are with his vote. You helped support him into office, he owes you a listen and some thought. And you have a right to speak your piece and to hold him accountable for his vote.
And then, if and when you hear back, let us know what is said.
Apparently he’s retiring
http://politicalwire.com/archi….._down.html
The Hollywood Liberal is getting to interview Waxman at 11amPST today and will be reporting back on his blog. The questions people sent in to him for the interview were kinda weak tho. He should have asked this crowd…
Siun @ 84
thanks siun! and if i’ve gotten anything wrong, i’m very interested in being corrected.
allan_in_upstate @ 121
no don’t! You did the right thing. WHATEVER he is, he’s still better than George Allen. (Of course, my dogs are better than George Allen…..even the dumb one).
Praedor Atrebates @ 115
Frankly, I wasn’t thinking of the House, except that Christy brought up Sestak. Our Rep. is Regula – oogh! You want him? We surely DO NOT!
There ARE some Senators whom we greatly admire, so we try to encourage them on specific topics, when we think they deserve it.
I don’t think we are particularly easy to fool with empty rhetoric either, fwiw.
Ya gotta luv this, and I don’t suppose they were all Log Cabins:
It’s not clear whether the 22,000 surveyed were only in the SF area, or whether it was a nationwide survey.
eCAHNomics @ 139
Yeah, it’s been pretty obvious for a while. He hasn’t admitted it, but he’s apparently been doing almost no fundraising.
In my mind, that gives him no excuse for going along with radical Republican efforts that, as a relatively sane realist, he must know are wrong.
I called Representative John Salazar’s office on Monday and blasted him for the yes vote on FISA. Actually I let my emotions get the best of me and probably did more harm than good. They at leasr know that one consituent does not approve.
Check out these pic:
http://www.nytimes.com/slidesh…..index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/slidesh…..HOW_4.html
http://www.nytimes.com/slidesh…..HOW_7.html
eCAHNomics @ 144
more here
One of my elected officials did not vote (Boxer). One still doesn’t feel the need to explain her voting with the pukes (Difi). One is a Puke. I have been trying to get my hands on a schedule for any of their public appearances so far to no avail. I am still really steamed over this.
Richmond @ 132
you know exactly why i’m laughing out loud. thanks *g*
Selise, this is valuable work. Thank you so much.
Redshift @ 145
If indeed he’s looking to retire, you’d think he’d want to leave a legacy to be proud of, instead of pandering & caving. Too hardened to feel a sense of duty anymore? Too resigned to feel shame? He ought to leave NOW, in that case.
Thanks so much, selise.
TSF @ 148
Thanks. I’d much rather has this group on my side than religious righties! Unfortunately the Ds take ‘em for granted.
Praedor Atrebates @ 115
((((((((Adie))))))))
This is my view as well ~ they are all shameful. Perhaps the ones who “got” to vote no for campaign cover may be even more complicit. It is right to praise good behaviour but it’s getting to the point where we need heroes. And praising good behaviour gives them cover: “oh well, I’m only one vote.”
What about being a hero and objecting?
What about submitting a “secret hold?” Why the hell not?
The R’s would … and have.
selise @ 150
Ummmmm no. Except that I have been spending long long hours every day this summer writing(except for my reward peaks here every now and again), and can attest to how hard it is to make a viable marriage of words and ideas. :-0
tbsa @ 149
Why didn’t Boxer vote?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 22
True enough. But, they really ought to have seen it coming from a mile away. And, they should have learned from the Patriot Act, the AUMF, and the MCA never to get stampeded. They are dealing with some trickiest and least ethical political in-fighters in the business. These are the same folks who sneaked the nonsense about recess-appointments of USAs into the funding bill in the dead of night. Bluffs and trickery are their stock in trade.
But some of the stuff that Bush did this time would be so easy to counter. When Bush says “I won’t sign any bill that fails to protect the American people,” then they should say “We won’t pass any bill that fails to protect the Consitution and the rights of the American people.” Then they should quote Ben Franklin about cowards deserving neither liberty nor security, thereby putting Bush on the same side as cowardice and the opposite side from the noble sentiments of our founding fathers.
Wigwam for Congress!
jhaygood @ 157
I have no idea.
Richmond @ 159
YES!
and can we get Selise to run too?
Richmond @ 159
second!
wigwam at 158 — Which I believe I said here:
I thought it was fairly clear that I’m beyond unhappy with how this has all played out — in each and every post I’ve done on this FISA mess from start to finish. And, if they ever play the tape of the panel that Digby and I did on Saturday at YKos on C-Span, you’ll get to see me be pissed live and on stage about it.
yellowdog jim @ 161
C’mon Selise. You KNOW you want to.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 163
oo!
i am drooling.
would this have been youTube accessible?
Wigwam and selise for congress? I’m in.
Steve-AR @ 44
Does ANYONE think the Blue Dogs looked “strong” by voting for this FISA bill? Or that they looked weak for not resisting the Bush steam-roller? My bet is the latter will be the more lasting impression.
I’m beginning to think Pelosi is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Bob in HI
Greg Miller of LA Times wrote:
A retired Navy admiral with an almost academic demeanor, McConnell, 64, has spent most of his six months in the nation’s top espionage job making quiet internal changes in the sprawling intelligence community. Among his priorities have been giving agencies more incentives to work together and fixing problems in procurement systems for spy satellites.
But last week he plunged into what became a fierce political debate with significant implications, both for the war on terrorism and for the civil liberties of American citizens. After lobbying for the legal changes for more than a year, McConnell maneuvered himself into the position of passing judgment on each proposal that surfaced during the week, angering Democrats by declaring their bills inadequate.
He also engaged in extensive negotiations with Democrats, during which his apparent changes of position left some members suggesting on the House floor that the intelligence director had become a puppet for the White House.
At one point, House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) expressed bewilderment that McConnell had issued a statement rejecting the Democrats’ approach one day after he had told members that their measure “significantly enhances America’s security.”
Referring to McConnell’s subsequent criticism of the Democrats’ bill, Hoyer said, “I will tell you, it doesn’t sound like the Adm. McConnell with whom I have talked over the past few weeks.”
A spokesman for McConnell rejected assertions that he had changed his position or been used for political purposes by the White House. “The White House did not play any part in rejecting that bill,” said Ross Feinstein, a McConnell spokesman. McConnell “made his own decisions. He was clear all along on what he needed in the bill.”
In handling those negotiations, McConnell was thrust into a delicate position. By tradition, the nation’s top intelligence official is supposed to be insulated from political pressure or from debates over policy. But at the same time, the director is appointed by the president and serves as his top intelligence aide.
“He is the president’s senior intelligence advisor, not Congress’ senior intelligence advisor,” said Mark Lowenthal, a former top CIA official and intelligence historian. But, he added, “I don’t think McConnell would ever allow himself to be put in the position of doing the bidding of the White House. It’s just not who the guy is.”
There were signs Tuesday that some Democrats still regarded McConnell as a trusted figure. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, defended her vote for the Republican version of the spy bill in part by circulating a letter she had received from McConnell describing the ways that the intelligence community would safeguard U.S. citizens’ privacy under the new espionage authorities.
Other congressional officials said McConnell’s negotiations left Democrats feeling blindsided. These officials said McConnell had initially agreed to certain provisions — including a sunset clause that would cause the legislation to expire in six months — and then abruptly changed position. In the end, Democrats fought to get the sunset clause attached to the final Republican bill.
Until there is a profound shift in perspective regarding how to deal
with the Terrorists and in putting civil liberties as more important
than security there is not going to be much change. Fear rules.
We are being totally manipulated without any oversight as to the
the nature of the threats and the response. How can we discriminate
between propaganda and truth when the administration is in total
control. The Dem. leadership is scarred of being tarred and feathered
on these issues. They do not lead and uphold principles. They do not
educate the people. This government needs the terrorist threat to be
there all the time to justify and continue their authoritarian rule.
The issue for me is never have warrentless wiretaps and surveillance.
FISA must always be there. No compromise period.
The only way to get the attention of these politicians is to have
a credible threat of voting them out of office come the next
elections. That is why it is so important to get behind the movement
to challenge Nancy Pelosi. She’s the top fish in the rotting barrel.
Also as a Californian I would like to see the Senior Senator DiFi
challenged as well. Time for big changes.
As an aside I am disgusted with corn for Ethanol take over of our
solution to becoming more independent of oil. It is wreaking havoc
on our food infrastructure world wide. Fascist corporate take over
on all levels going. There is absolutely no one in power with vision
to lead us into a better future!
yellowdog jim @ 133
I’m agree, wholeheatedly.
Selise, another thanks over here. We have to hold them all accountable, and know what they are doing…it’s a two way street. I don’t consider this a knock on them at all…no one will be perfect, and no one will be tuned to the exact same issues. What we need to do is make our feedback clear, loud, and unambiguous.
selise @ 129
Great stuff, Selise.
It looks to me, though, that when the not-so-bad version was scheduled, leadership probably thought it was non-controversial (they’d get GOP votes). Bush saying “unacceptable” at 5 PM yanked those GOP votes. So the charitable version is “punked and folded”, and even that is way the hell less than we need.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 163
I thought it was fairly clear that I’m beyond unhappy with how this has all played out — in each and every post I’ve done on this FISA mess from start to finish. And, if they ever play the tape of the panel that Digby and I did on Saturday at YKos on C-Span, you’ll get to see me be pissed live and on stage about it.
Hi Christy,
I’m not disagreeing so much as venting. It’s the sense of de ja vu that’s killing me.
fdl reader @ 155
Minor point — I don’t think there are “secret holds” in the House, only in the Senate.
tbsa @ 160
I sent both Boxer & DiFi faxes last Friday night asking “what the hell?” I’m always polite but firm. Not even a roboletter has come back. Mary Landrieu’s office got one for her Lido slide also (my previous Sen.). Are they too busy fundraising? Playing in the white sands of Cap d’ Antibes? Simply don’t give a care?
If I get anything later in the recess I’ll post it…
Sam @ 169
I’m with you on that one. And now that it has such momentum, I doubt it can be stopped.
The real terrorists have been occupying the Whitehouse since 2000. IMO 9-11 was a false flag attack perpetrated by the criminals in power expressly for the purpose of raping the country and leaving the constitution in tatters.
Hi Redd. Just wondering, I have sent checks every 2 weeks for the past couple of months to FDL’s snail mail address. They have gone uncashed, but I know y’all could use the funds. Should I just use PayPal instead?
Totally OT, but my first guest post is up at Brilliant at Breakfast.
It’s just a wee trifle of a thing.
TiredFed at 178 — That’s a question you should ask Jane…thanks!
Folks – all of this is great stuff here in terms of “why this mess happened”. My position though at this point is “Ok, and what are we going to do about this NOW?” I don’t think it’s enough to hammer our reps and senators about their being naughty or letting us down in terms of personal protections. I think they also need to know that we want answers NOW about how they intend on getting rid of this thing when they get back in September.
Biodun @ 122
Paging Fitz.
wigwam @ 170
well, although i feel the urge to be the instigator, i have few resources to bring to bear.
can we play the “cheneybu$hco stole the election” card?
can we revoke their confirmations?
i hear two “No”s?
Are there only “high crimes and misdemeanors” as a standard?
is it going to take catching them getting a blow job?
i am out of depth.
(but i can swim underwater.)
Roberts and Alito are serious long term problems.
Scalia and Thomas are on the list too.
Proudly putting on my tin-foil and saying right-on tbsa. Inside job. WTC 7 is the tell. (Well, actually one of many tells.)
Adie @ 164
HELL NO!!!
trust me on this one.
i’d love to go canvassing for ned again, though.
Nevermind Fitz, Jose outed himself.
TobyWollin @ 181
They won’t be allowed to get rid of it. The pukes will fillibuster or just threaten to because that’s all it takes. This should never ever have been allowed to pass. NEVER!
Kensinger was hidden in plain sight – in his office. They tried to serve the subpoena only at his home. G*d the incompetence boggles the mind.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0808.html
It’s Party Time
jane is upstairs and it’s a party.
About to be EPU’d – and out there, but: I think we have in this FISA mess another cluster of interests and values that work against us from the vantge of how the notion of a “viable” state is imagined. Those who see Isr*el as a model for countering terrorism and protecting the citizens (here the neo-cons) are framing this in part around a religious state model. The same ideal is being foisted on tis this country by the Christian right (peaking in our bedrooms and doctors’ clinics). And, the same is also true of the corporate world (prying into the details of our intimate lives for purposes of marketing to our imaginary “needs”). In this trifecta of models, the state (the peep) takes on a primacy over the individual (the subject) for our own good. Hence the sense that it really doesn’t matter that citizens are spied on unless one has something to hide. What is equally striking for me however is how both the right and the center-left has bought into this.
Richmond @ 156
my mistake. i thought you were referring to this (and earlier comments) where i was having trouble making sense.
something that happens to me too frequently, especially when i write (but really any time i attempt to use the english language), is that the response i get makes me think i must have written something completely different than i thought i had. oh well.
eCAHNomics @ 176
Consumer reports (and others) say it doesn’t work (and consumes too much carbon to produce). And it will destroy our food supply as mega farmers turn to corn. The corporate farmers are already out there buying up land.
Not only them; how about Boehner, Mitch McConnell and the Republican leadership? Anyone who voted for this should be targeted. Any chance of working with the conservatives at Patriots to Restore Checks and Balances on that? Also, what would it take to start up the process of identifying primary/general election challengers willing to pledge repeal of that (and ideally the Military Commissions Act as well)?
Jane Hamsher @ 8
selise @ 110
Wow, Selise, nice bit of original reporting.
Why can’t the MSM do that?
I would say even if your research and interviews did notback up my theory. *g*
yellowdog jim @ 183
I heard Bruce Fein on the radio the other day making that case that Bush v Gore was one of the more outrageous and unconsititutional decisions ever to come out of the Supreme Court. Specifically he make the point that it violated states rights and several other things. What most piss me off is that it violates elementary logic — it begs the question: it assumed that Bush owned the presidency and on that basis gives it to him. Duh!
So I suggest that we also impeach Scalia and Thomas.
looseheadprop @ 194
please note that the very last link is to one of your comments. *g*
GordonM @ 172
it could be true. but i also think our leaders would rather have us think they are that incompetent – rather than that they had decided to pass the administration’s bill.
i don’t know what the truth of the matter is (and it’s probably more complicated than i can imagine). but just like i don’t assume alberto gonzales’ bumbling is incompetence rather than a deflection – i don’t assume it for the dems either.
wigwam @ 195
yes.
Vicent Bugliosi was a long time prosecutor in LA and tried the Manson Family successfully.
he wrote The Betrayal of America.
Bugliosi makes the crystal clear case that the Bush v. Gore was the act of traitors and calls the authors the Felonious Five: they get depicted on the cover in faux mug shots.
i bought a half dozen copies and gave then all away.
i made sure my library had copies.
bugliosi writing is completely accessible and easily understood.
we need to do this work on the SCOTUS.
N=1 @ 137
AMEN to that!
Bob in HI
selise @ 49
here it is.
Two simple ways to look at it.
Their vacations took priority over our civil liberties and the our constitution. Vacations over country..how quaint.
They put their own selfish politics over our civil liberties and constitution.
(they say they were afraid politically they would be vulnerable in upcoming elections to kkKarl’s political attacks and politics of fear)
The Democratic leadership failed miserably. Why do you think Harry Reid was a no show at yearlykos. Wasn’t the Senate out for recess on Friday night. He couldn’t make it Saturday to Chicago? No? Sigh….I want accountability here, and that means from democratas as well as republicans.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 163
I thought it was fairly clear that I’m beyond unhappy with how this has all played out — in each and every post I’ve done on this FISA mess from start to finish. And, if they ever play the tape of the panel that Digby and I did on Saturday at YKos on C-Span, you’ll get to see me be pissed live and on stage about it.
Is that tape available anywhere in the ‘Net?
Bob in HI
Two simple ways to look at it.
Their vacations took priority over our civil liberties and our Constitution. Vacations over country..how quaint. (didn’t bushie do that just before 9/11?)
They put their own selfish politics over our civil liberties and constitution.
(they say they were afraid politically they would be vulnerable in upcoming elections to kkKarl’s attacks and they fell prey to the politics of fear).
The Democratic leadership failed miserably. Why do you think Harry Reid was a no show at yearlykos. Wasn’t the Senate out for recess on Friday night. He couldn’t make it Saturday to Chicago? No? Sigh….I want accountability here, and that means from democratas as well as republicans.
My Congress critter is “Blue Belly Democrat” Jim Cooper (TN-05). Sunday my wife fired off an angry email, I wrote two letters. One to Mr. Cooper for both his Nashville and DC offices and one to the local paper (which did get published btw =) ).
Today, I called his office to get his schedule and his aide said he would only be in Nashville for three days during August and that he was currently out of the country. I asked where he went and she said she wasn’t at liberty to tell me that.
I was shocked. I said, “I think that as a constituent of his, I have a right to know where my Congressman is, especially if the trip is on taxpayer dollars.”
“I can assure you it’s not on taxpayer dollars,” she said. “He on a family trip.”
“Ooohhhh…so he’s on VACATION…”
She told me to either write a letter or they can try to set up a meeting with a staff member. I said I was really hoping to see him in person.
How much you want to bet he voted yes so the president wouldn’t call them back into session and his vacation out of the country wouldn’t be inconvenienced?
selise @ 200
I’ve confirmed with Hoyer’s office that he’s not doing any town hall meetings in his OWN district during the recess.
Like I said earlier, as a constituent of his, I’ve been trying to find out for years when he’s going to have a town hall meeting, with no luck.
On his website, under the link to the FAQ, there’s a link titled, “Who is my Congressman?”
Damned good question.
BTW, the person answering the phone at Hoyer’s office said they didn’t announce the time or place of his town hall meetings very far in advance due to his security detail’s concerns.
What a crock. It’s not like he’s in line for the Presidency. He (and his security detail) should just get over it.
So far I see that you can google “upcoming events site:house.gov” and some congress critters have an upcoming events page. But Steny doesn’t.
I sent a letter — an actual snail mail letter — to Barbara Mikulski, telling her how angry, disgusted and disappointed I was that she would hand the Bush gang another weapon to use against the rights of American citizens. I also told her not to bother to send me a form letter explaining her vote because I don’t care why– I’m done with her. And I am.
This episode continues to make my head spin. It is surprising how few people understand the implications of this legislation. And one does not need to be an experienced civil-libertarian to recognize it as bad stuff.
I have taken on the issue as a focus “until it is fixed” at South by Southwest.
And a goodly number of us co-bloggers are posting about it at The Reaction–by Michael J.W. Stickings
Oh it works for google: “upcoming events site:senate.gov” Only some have events listed.
Like here’s Larry Craig’s page: http://craig.senate.gov/schedule.cfm
Here’s Chuck Grassley:For Immediate Release
August 1st, 2007
GRASSLEY’S AMBASSADORS TOUR TO EMBARK ON WEEK OF VISITS TO IOWA COMMUNITIES
Enjoy Iowans!
Here’s for lucky pennsylvanians /snark:
Specter To Hold Regional Open House Town Meeting In California
Will Meet With Residents On A Variety Of Topics
California
Thursday, August 16, 2007
And so on . . .
expedience should never, ever take precedence over standing up for our civil liberties and the Constitution. Period.
the Iraq authorization to use force
Military Commissions Act
FISA eviceration Act
All accomplished in the same manner by the bush/cheney/rove axis of evil. The perfect trifecta of American evisceration.
.
Sorry, but I’m not buying it.
I respect the opinions of the frontpagers and most of the time agree completely … but not this time
They didn’t get worked. They didn’t get played.
They wanted this bill, it has everything they’ve wanted for the last ten years
http://crimelynx.com/partpol.html
Some kind of calendar for James Clyburn.
Steny Hoyer:
Enjoy New Yorkers!
I contacted my Congressmen Sam Graves (MO-6th) office and requested notice of scheduled appearances during the August recess and was told due to “security” reasons they would not release it. Moving on to Claire McCaskill tomorrow..hope I have better luck. I have asked some press contacts to let me know if they get any press releases detailing public meetings.
““We had voted for a bill the evening before that had actually brought together a proper balance of the civil liberties of our citizens,” said Sestak.” Rep. Sestak is talking about the Reyes bill (which Pelosi backed), which was BOOTED BY A HANDFUL OF PROGRESSIVES.
Improving Foreign Intelligence Surveillance to Defend the Nation and the Constitution Act of 2007. Failed 218-207 (by 10 votes): DEMS VOTING NAY: Blumenauer, Capuano, Filner, Holt, Inslee, Kucinich, McDermott, McGovern, Michaud, Olver, Stark, Waters, Welch (VT), & Woolsey. Not voting: Clark, Waxman
• Why is it that this little detail is not being reported? Why is it that Pelosi’s solution to the problem is not credited with being 1) A GOOD ONE ( http://www.speaker.gov/legislation?id=0080 ), 2) a solution that would have passed had Kucinich, Waters, Woolsey, and the rest voted YEA.
Instead, Bash Nancy, around the clock. This Speaker of the House came up with a House solution that OUR SIDE of the party crashed. The blame is misplaced on the Speaker, instead of on OUR well-meaning progressives, who mistakenly opposed the Speaker’s effort.
Instead of encouraging people to chase the Speaker around, how about also reporting that a comprehensive FISA rewrite is pending in September, as a result of a long effort by Reyes and Conyers, and gearing up for a major push to get that through the SENATE.
Our problem is in the SENATE, not in the House.
emal @ 203
Consider that Reid keynoted the 2006 version of Yearly KOS.
“The forced cancellation happened when Congress and Senate leaders learned that they had to stay in Washington for an energy vote, sadly but understandably cancelling their appearances here in Chicago. There were sincere regrets on both sides.”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..84518/5765
The fact is that the Senate worked late into Friday night, and the Majority Leader canceled an early morning appearance. There is really ZERO evidence that this failure to appear was prompted by political concerns because of rightwing bashing. Senator Reid is not a wilting flower, whatever else he is.
(sorry, that second paragraph of the block quote is mine, not the emal’s)
Frank33 @ 101
At least it’s better than the time GHW Bush was interviewed and he said (paraphrasing) he had two (2) wonderful sons, one the governor of Florida and the other, as you know, is the governor of Texas and is running for president.
Sadly, Poppy has 4, yes FOUR sons, and they’re all pretty disgraceful disasters. There might also be a daughter. I can’t recall.
eCAHNomics @ 188
Hilarious and semi-tragic at the same time. But, it also means that if they had gone to his office he probably wouldn’t have run and would’ve accepted the subpoena and testified. That’s better than the world seeing him as a chickenshit.
Paul in LA @ 218
sorry, that’s just not so. see my comments about for the details.
H.R. 3356 (the “good one” as you called) failed with a majority of yes votes – 218 in favor, and 207 opposed. the reason it failed was because it was brought to a vote using a process that required a 2/3 majority to pass.
it is this decision (among others) – by the house leadership – to use an inappropriate rule (one that is supposed to be used for non-controversial measures) that doomed H.R. 3356 to failure.
if the 14 no votes you list were changed to “yes” votes – the vote totals would have been 232 in favor to 193. add in the 2 not voting and it is 234 to 193… and H.R. 3356 would still have failed to pass.
there was major fuckery with the process – and that is why it took several days of reading the congressional record, talking with aides and discussing the details here, before we were able to nail it down to the point we have so far.
there’s probably alot more going on that is unavailable to us – unless someone within the leadership wants to tell us the straight scoop with no spin. but that hasn’t happened yet – and is another reason i’m angry.
seriously – please read my long comments above (start here, then here, here and here)
selise @ 223
I see you are correct. Sorry for my misapprehension. How would the more general process have worked, timewise? It is pretty difficult, as you note, to get these details — but to listen to the Pelosi-bashers, there is no mention — until Sestak’s comments today — of this other bill. Don’t you find that strange?
“From the ACLU: We weren’t notified that the bill was moving until 6 days before when Rep. Harman let it slip on Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer”
This is SPIN. Harmon ‘let it slip’? That’s anyhow the Senate side. The assertion that it was a slip by Harmon (who I do not support) is argumentative, not factual.
I think the reason for the suspended rules approach was to avoid amendments.
“No amendments are in order unless submitted with the bill by its manager as part of the motion to suspend the rules.”
Thanks for your helpful comments (which I am still reading). Unlike many, I do like to know some of the facts about these issues, and not just Democracy Now!’s predigested spin-points.
I don’t accept the bulk of your analysis. It seems quite clear that there was a negotiated bill with the DNI, which was later flatfooted by Bush. It seems quite clear that the vote on the first bill was held to allow the expression of dissent by the caucus on the second bill’s content. The second bill was passed over that objection. Pelosi immediately published a letter to Reyes/Conyers requesting a comprehensive FISA bill in September — something they have been working on for months.
I don’t find the ACLU’s spin acceptable — they are busy spinning these events on Dem Now! into the usual bash-the-Dems approach of that show. Greenwald didn’t even mention the preceeding bill on Dem Now! (TMK), neither mentioned Pelosi’s letter, nor talked about the six-month sunset on either bill. Neither do you, for that matter.
The clear evidence is that Bushco has been spying extralegally since 2001 — so neither of these bills is particularly pertinent, except as bashing points for those who want to attack the Dem leadership (as if all this was their fault, which it is certainly not). And the FISA court is itself more or less a Bandaid on an oozing sore, 4th amendment-wise, especially with the limited Congressional oversight under the 108, 109th Congresses. Almost no requests for subpoenas fail.
Furthermore, the mass spying that is almost certainly underway COULD NEVER fit under the 4th Amendment or the FISA Court. I’m sure that Congress knows that, and much more, so I’ll continue to trust the Speaker of the House instead of self-appointed Greenwald, Dem Now! and their persistent spinning of the facts, and the ACLU, which has developed a set of theatrical spokespersons who are blaming the wrong persons for these problems.
Assertions aside, I just don’t see real evidence of some malfeasance on Pelosi (or Hoyer, Reyes, Conyers) side. It is speculation and spin, and it is matched by a retributive analysis by commenters who are mainly angered by the ‘impeachment if off the table’ stance — which recognizes what this FISA bill in the Senate has demonstrated yet again–that we don’t have sufficient free votes for conviction.
Still, I appreciate your amplifications, if not your conclusions.
i have been a democrat all my voting life. i have never been so disappointed in the party. we were having a discussion in work a while ago, have the democrats become “Quislings” or ” Vichy French”?
helen kenney
I have reread the transcript from Dem Now!, and while the six month sunset was covered, it was ridiculed — on the basis of Dem Bashing.
Greenwald says this: “Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid were scheduled to appear [at Yearly KOS], but they were ordered by George Bush to stay in Washington, and so they were unable to make it.”
Which is PATENTLY A LIE. Greenwald LIED through his clenched teeth. But several times in the broadcast they tried to make it seem that Bush’s posturing was why the Congress took up FISA (and not, as is actually the case, because the DNI specifically informed Congress that there was a national security issue which needed immediate action).
Pelosi’s letter to Conyers and Reyes is not mentioned. The identification of the entire caucus with the 29 Blue Dog (and 12 others) who voted with the R is absolute. The argument is made at least twice that the Dem leadership kowtowed to Bush, which is flatly untrue (they negotiated a bill with the DNI, as you noted, and then Bush reneged). Dem Now! pretends that Dems could have passed the better bill in the House — that is clearly untrue, falling under the Dem Now! canard that ‘the Dems’ are a monolith (as if the Blue Dogs are Pelosi/Hoyer’s fault) to be mocked.
And, in keeping with Dem Now!’s spin on the supplemental,
“MARJORIE COHN: Under the Constitution, the Congress has the power to actually end this war. They can cut the funding for the war, and they can put limits on the war. And yet, they have refused to do that. They have backed down when Bush vetoed the spending bill and agreed to no limits.”
Which completely ignores the actual facts of the supplemental, which is that after the Bush veto THERE WERE NO LONGER ENOUGH VOTES to change the bill, so they put minimum wage and Katrina funding in the bill, and defered the efforts to the actual military appropriations bill, which is a stronger process (and which R therefore blocked). There is no reference to that accomplishment — no, it’s bash the Dems around the clock on Dem Now!, in keeping with their longstanding poilcy.
helen kenney @ 227
190 House Dems (five/sixths of the caucus), including all of the leadership, voted NAY on the FISA bill. Though Dem Now! and Glenn Greenwald PRETEND that that makes the bill “bipartisan,” that claim is ridiculous.
Paul in LA @ 224
thanks for coming back and taking the time to read my earlier comments. i really appreciate that.
i think there was lots of discussion of H.R. 3356 in the threads here – but let’s be clear, we didn’t see the bill until around the time it was defeated in the house vote friday. by then it was less significant than the bill the house would ultimately pass… so of course, focus moved on to s.1927.
also, it certainly looked (from watching c-span friday) that the house leadership was NOT trying to get their bill passed. that is why i went back and tried to get more details… i couldn’t believe what i was seeing. but sadly, it was the truth… there was no effort to actually pass H.R. 3356 – it was all theater. i’m angry with a sense of betrayal.
i think it’s important to note how hard senator feingold (and whitehouse) worked to stop this debacle… if only efforts like their’s had the support of pelosi and reid.
passage of s.1927 was bipartisan – because it never would have passed without the active assistance of the the leaders of a democratic congress.
from my comment at 129:
good for glenn and good for democracy now! for shining that light.
allan_in_upstate @ 62
It’s real…go to the jabberwonk site and click on their link. It’s pretty much a straightforward Christian School site…but everything in the curriculum section emphasises strongly the “hand of God” actively in everything…even the events of History.
It’s almost as if the Social Studies program suggests that wars and famines and other natural disasters are curses sent by God.
I posted this to Crooks & Liars, and maybe it will get me booted from here, but I think you have gone right off the tracks, so that may not matter:
It is hard to believe, but some folk at firedoglake and DailyKOS and Greenwald are going to harrass the Speaker, with extremist accusations like Greenwald’s (on Dem Now!) assertion:
“Greenwald: Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid were scheduled to appear [at Yearly KOS], but they were ordered by George Bush to stay in Washington, and so they were unable to make it.” (DN! transcript)
Which is PATENTLY A LIE. Greenwald LIED through his clenched teeth, but it is a measure of his disaffiliation (in this case, from reality) that he decides to proclaim the Speaker dishonorable and a toady of the President. He doesn’t say as much — if he was honorable he would keep his mouth shut entirely — no, he cloaks it in a naked assertion. It’s time, apparently, to follow GSM Sheehan’s (and overamped Ray MacGovern) bad example, and piss off the Speaker, Chairman Conyers, and everyone else who is important to restoring peace and our rights. They have lost faith, so now they will cheerily ignore THE OPPOSITION (a luxury not shared by the Speaker or Chairman Conyers), and blast our loyal politicians. Apparently there are no Republicans or Blue Dogs who need protesting first.
Several times in the broadcast they tried to make it seem that Bush’s posturing was why the Congress took up FISA (and not, as is actually the case, because the DNI specifically informed Congress that there was a national security issue which needed immediate action. Ruse or not, it was not possible to ignore it.).
Pelosi’s letter to Conyers and Reyes is not mentioned. Nevermind that FISA is a nonfunctional Bandaid — as Greenwald admits –it’s time to ignore the need to rewrite the whole bill, which Reyes and Conyers have been working on for MONTHS, and which cannot be introduced in the last day of the session (as Bushco very well knew — playing the new DCI as a fool), but will have to wait for September — no, Greenwald insists that the Speaker is in collusion with Bush, and her letter is a fraud! I can tell that martial law is only minutes away, isn’t it, Glenn?
For Greenwald, and Dem Now!, identification of the entire caucus with the 29 Blue Dog (and 12 others) who voted with the R on the FISA stopgap is am absolute. Dem Now! pretends that Dems could have passed the better bill in the House — that is clearly untrue, but this willfully-ignorant assertion falls under standard Dem Now! canard that ‘the Dems’ are or MUST function as a monolith. If they don’t, trash the leadership. Nevermind you can count 100% caucus votes on controversial issues since 1789 on your toes. As if the Blue Dogs are Pelosi/Hoyer’s fault! It’s time to bash the leadership for not being able to sway them from their preexisting commitment to Bushco’s policies — as an extention of their guilt that there isn’t 67 loyal votes in the Senate. How dare Reid miss YearlyKOS after working late the night before! Glenn Greenwald commands you to attend, or be branded a traitor!
I hope that the Speaker and Chairman Conyers will still work with those of us who are among the SANE, who don’t panic at a coup and lose all faith in our elected officials or our government. All of a sudden, the government is supposed to function flawlessly — all laws followed — all members of the caucus — WITHOUT EXCEPTION — voting exactly as Glenn Greenwald dictates. Who elected him is not clear — but his SLANDER of the Speaker is an unforgiveable act unless he apologizes for his lying assertion. If it was sarcasm, then he has an extremist form of it. Has he considered a radio show?
selise @ 230
“Critical,” is it? The bastard declared her and the majority leader toadies of the traitor in the white house, and you are asserted something similar. I think you’re CROCKED! Do you have any idea left of the propriety of not going off half-cocked on your assumptions? Do you not understand that Andrew Jackson SHOT PEOPLE for less of a slander than the scurrilous crap Greenwald needs to apologize for.
You know, you have a right to burn the flag, but that doesn’t I don’t have the right to go to jail for putting out your lights for it. We’re in very serious trouble, all of us, and the act of slander is NOT “criticism.” To the degree that it is believed — and yet false — it’s a BETRAYAL. It’s a vicious and serious assertion you are making, a measure of your radicalization, and also of your willingness to let your assumptions drive you off cliffs.
Next Fall I plan on working with the Speaker and the Chairpersons and supporting them as much as I can. You folks are encouraging the burning of your own bridges, and not just to them, but to a lot of ordinary Democrats who are PROUD and/or grateful to our loyal leadership, and the many fine works they have accomplished in six months. Greenwald is crocked if he thinks his statement is going to be considered ‘criticism.’ Obviously he has no sense of the non-negotiable dignity of office.
People are welcome to share their opinions but let’s refrain from the personal attacks please.
Christy and Selise:
When I called Senator Levin’s office on Fri. am to ask him to oppose FISA gutting legislation, the guy who answered the phone at Levin’s office told me that the senate would not be voting on any FISA legislation before vacation. I called back today to ask why he said that in light of what took place, and he said that Levin believed that they wouldn’t consider it as of Fri. am but that they hadn’t known that it would be “forced upon them” and that the President would say they could not leave until they resolved FISA. I said why didn’t they just stay but not acceed to the Repugs, he said that it was “up to the majority leader” and that Levin didn’t vote that way.
Paul in LA @ 233
where exactly did i go off half-cocked on my assumptions?
pardon me, but who went combing through the congressional record? who called their representative’s office to talk with the aide who worked on fisa and then to the house rules committee aide who worked on fisa? all this to figure out as much as i could of the procedural rules used last week.
yes, i made some statements starting on friday – but they were based on what i was seeing and hearing on c-span…and i didn’t stop there – i checked it out and tried to learn more this week.
if my analysis is factually wrong – show me where.
if there are flaws in my reasoning – please point them out to me.
one of the benefits of posting our thinking here is so that we can reason together. i’m not going to refrain from describing what is in front of me because someone might think it improper. please, let us reason together.
‘cuz, i don’t like thinking what i’m thinking, and if you can make a counter argument – i’d love to hear it. but right now, it looks to me like glenn is right.
Katie Jacob @ 235
wow. that’s very important information – especially given levin’s role is trying to craft an alternative bill. thank you.
selilse@237
I am going to be at an event on Tues. in Ann Arbor and Senator Levin will be there. If I get a chance I will see if he will elaborate.