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Think Progress has some video and a transcript of Rep. Joe Sestak's speech at CAP yesterday. And I wanted to highlight a particular aspect of his speech. Sestak voted against the abomination of a FISA bill, and he had this to say about how the entire mess came about:
How could we have not have stood up for rights of civil liberties while ensuring the proper ability to go and listen, and just stayed during the recess if necessary. And I understand that our leadership in the caucus has to worry about how the public will perceive it, but I also know this, that ultimately, we have to, as Benjamin Franklin said, be concerned that those who give up…liberty in the name security, deserve neither liberty or security. This is a time that I strongly believe, we should have stood up and said no. Attorney General Gonzales, we’re not going to let you decide the guidelines upon which you’ll listen in on Americans....
Sestak noted that the administration had rejected a compromise bill worked out between Congressional leaders and Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell. “We made the three major changes that [McConnell] wanted,” said Sestak. “The issue here is they just don’t want to come to the FISA court. That’s enough to tell me we need them to.”
“We had voted for a bill the evening before that had actually brought together a proper balance of the civil liberties of our citizens,” said Sestak. “We should have brought that bill up Saturday, instead of the Senate bill…we could have gotten it the next morning under majority votes. And that would have meant probably that we had to stay in session this week, and that would have forced the Senate to come back and deal with it.”... (emphasis mine)
And there you have it. In case you needed extra incentive as to why public accountability on this issue is important, here it is: expedience should never, ever take precedence over standing up for our civil liberties and the Constitution. Period.
I'm still working on digging out the details on how all of this could possibly have happened the way it did, but the more I dig in, the more the scenario that Jane and Matt laid out is looking pretty spot on -- and it makes me more determined than ever to make certain that our elected "leadership" finds out just how wrong that is. From every single one of us. Because "leadership" ought to mean that you think more than one move ahead, and don't allow yourself to get snookered by a bunch of lying neoconmen on a legislative bender.
So, what are you doing today to hold your elected officials accountable? Do tell...
UPDATE: Pulling this from Jane up from the comments:
Anybody have info on he public appearances of Reid, Pelosi, Emanuel, Hoyer or Clyburn during recess, we’re still looking (I know Pelosi’s going to be in CT for Chris Murphy and Reid has a Town Hall coming up on the 15th, but that’s it so far.)
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zed
Uno!
nice zed, petwrecker…
quatro
OT - there is something seriously wrong with Bob Murray, the mine owner…
I notice that the refresh comments button stops working so well when a new post is up. Deliberate?
Well I’m just on a drive by here, I’m scrambling to find work. The 4 prospects I had been working on for this month have fallen through. It’s quite a predicament if I say so myself.
I do want to commend everyone for what they are doing.
Anybody have info on he public appearances of Reid, Pelosi, Emanuel, Hoyer or Clyburn during recess, we’re still looking (I know Pelosi’s going to be in CT for Chris Murphy and Reid has a Town Hall coming up on the 15th, but that’s it so far.)
PB at 6 — No — it’s the drag on the servers when the comments load gets to a certain level when combined with a traffic spike. No conspiracy, just a technological fact of life.
Most excellent, Christy and Joe!
Meanwhile, in some interesting good news:
Remember the Fourth Circuit, and how the right-wingers worked to try and pack that circuit full of archconservatives and Federalist Society hacks?
Well, guess what? Because of a) a large number of vacancies left by cons leaving for corporate paychecks and b) Bush’s unwillingness to try to push his usual hacktacular nominees through the newly-Democratic Congress, suddenly the Fascist Fourth is now verging on being a fair court again.
OldCoastie @ 3
popped my cherry :~)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Actually, it’s kinda useful. When it drags, I check upstairs…
OldCoastie @ 5
I totally agree. I only saw part of his press conference on TV last night and saw him talking about how important the coal industry is and that we wouldn’t be able to function without it.
OldCoastie @ 5
The guy’s definitely not playing with a full deck…
I’m sending the DNC and the DSCC letters stating that I’m sending the money they requested to the ACLU instead over the FISA vote. I will put my own postage on their envelopes though.
OldCoastie @ 5
I read that as “mime owner.” Who owns mimes these days?
Exactement. That’s how I get the zeds…*g*
I sent a NARAL letter back to them telling them I would never give them a dime until Nancy Keegan goes away because of their support of Joey Lies and their refusal to support the Alito filibuster.
Sorry Christy,
But I donot buy for one minute the notion that Pelosi got punked and didn’t understand the House Rules. That just doesn’t pass the smell test.
She’s been there too long and she has wanted the job of Speaker for too long.
She did this on purpose. There is no other logical explaination.
It’s just the “why” that eludes me. There are several possibilites, but I cannot settle on one:
1) she has some weird idea that Dems need to behave better than Reps and that this “dignity” will set us above them in the minds of voters. In other words, she consistantly brings a knife to gun fight.
2) She actually believes that Bushco would be able to spin any attemtpt by the GOP to cede all rights to the President as Dems being “soft on Terror”
3) she thought she was getting a quid pro quo. For example the Reps went out of there way during a very long day of floor debates to cooperate on the Environmental bill.
I watched the whole thing. It was bi partisan love fest. Of curse, Shrub has threatened to veto the bill.
4) After those idiots on the Intellgece Committee allowed their words to be twisted ONCE AGAIN, she felt she had no ammo
5) none of the above, something even stupiderh
Phoenix Woman @ 10
That IS good news. How much influence does that have on W venue shopping? Is there another wingnut district that canbe used in its stead?
OldCoastie @ 5
Someone a day or so ago said that he was connected to some big politician, but can’t remember who.
LHP at 19 — Who said she got punked? They were bluffed by the GOP, and they made a very bad call. Re-read the post.
lhp - I’m voting on #3 - she thought she was going to get something she didn’t…
Feinstein’s the one that has me puzzled as well… she’s not passing the smell test at all…
Loo Hoo. @ 15
Make that the DSCC and the DCCC (Senate and House re-election committees). Howard is over at the DNC and I’m still trusting him.
EPU’d from “Progressive Politics Matters: SCHIP, Immigration And GOP Lies”. Regarding the failure to vaccinate, the piece appears in Forbes.
The article claims that,
but fails to identify the 10 states. Many other disturbing statistics are detailed.
SharonRB @ 13
And then there was the weird rant about the mine workers union and federal oversight.
It is nice to know that folks like Joe Sestak and Wes Clark understand things. It shows that not all of the stars in the military are blind to the Constitution.
OT Speaking of not playing with a full deck, have you seen this article about God and the teaching of mathematics in Texas.
http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=a3bha
Is this a hoax? If this is for real, then things are even worse than I had realized.
Joe Sestak summed it up:
BushCo doesn’t want to go to the FISA Court and that’s exactly why we have to make them go to the FISA Court.
Phoenix Woman @ 10
Well DiFi voted for Southwick…But I hope you are right…no more judges until after 01/20/09…even if the ‘08 elections go well for us, un-doing the damage done to SCOTUS and the Federal Judiciary is going to be a huge problem.
Christy, Damn Right!
Please note: The FISA fix, in effect, turns the NSA over to AGAG (and thus to Karl Rove, the master of opposition reserch) through January 2009, which includes the 2008 election cycle. Specifically, until the fix’s 2/4/08 sunset, Gonzales can approve year-long surveillance programs targeting any communications that he “reasonably suspects” might go outside the U.S. (We all know how that’s going to work.)
OldCoastie @ 23
DiFi’s been failing that test for awhile. I stopped voting for her.
Tomorrow our amazing new Congressman Chris Murphy will be coming to town. I mostly want to thank him for his progressive votes, which included not voting for that FISA abomination. But I want to ask him how he thinks we can undo the incredible damage that is being perpetrated on this country.
As for Joe Lieberman…I am waiting for an answer as to any constituent meetings. Or will he be in hiding? Stay tuned.
dakine01 @ 27
agreed, it does give me faith
great! i’m gonna use this thread to post the info i promised yesterday - from reading and talking with House aides.
it won’t even be OT. but it will get caught in the filters - too many links (sorry mods!). multi-part comment coming up….
p.s. preview is isn’t working for me - so finger’s crossed that i don’t mess up too much…
Pelosi nor anyone else got punked. That’s just providing cover for them. I want to know why and I don’t want some political stratigic mumbo-jumbo that insults our intelligence. WHY, Nancy? Have you ever heard the phrase, “Just say no”. Democrats sound more and more like Tony Snow, who is on right now.
OK. Call it a “bad call”. All the same, lame excuse.
rocket scientist @ 28
I think Mathematics is an excellent language in which to speculate about the existence and nature of God. Sunday sermons on Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem would be a wonderful thing.
I called and e-mailed both senators and my one rep yesterday. I sent an e-mail to Bayh again today. I might call the offices and let them know I’m still pissed about this FISA vote.
If we sell out the constitution and slide into tyranny, NONE of our pet issues from abortion, the environment, to labor issues, will have a chance of being fixed.
If your reps vote correctly on all of these important issues, but then voted for this FISA, they might as well have voted wrong on all those issues, because they’re handing this government over to a dictator.
There’s nothing on Rahm’s site and his Chicago office apparently knows nothing but I have a call in to his press secretary asking for his schedule … will report back as I get news.
QuakerGirl at 37 — Do you play poker? “Bad call” has a very specific meaning. As in, bad strategy, not having any balls, failing to read the tells that the other side is bluffing, etc., etc.
Don’t get condescending with me when I know exactly what I am saying and it is certainly not providing cover for anyone, thank you very much.
OT–(Apologies, Christy)
Interesting tidbit:
My tarnished new Democratic Congresscritter Harry Mitchell who unseated JD Hayworth just astounds me. Mitchell has a degree in Political Science AND taught High School Government for 28 years.
He voted for the FISA bill to remove MY rights. I am trying to get a meeting to ask him why he thinks he has the RIGHT to remove MY Fourth Amendment Right?
My next comment will be that I would rather have JD because I always know he was going to screw me where I have to be shocked and surprised that a teacher of government for 28yrs would throw away the rights of Arizonians!
looseheadprop @ 19
I think it was playing defense for the ‘08 elections. She knows the thugs control the MSM and the Dems would take a huge beating if they didn’t pass the bill and a potentially fatal beating if an attack did happen. I think the Dem leadership is going “all in” with the ‘08 election. Is it good for the country or good strategy? I don’t know.
rocket scientist @ 28
God invented Mathematical consistency. That means things are not contradictory. Of course Kurt Godel proved Mathematical consistency.
How was it, that the truly awful S.1927 (see here and here), was passed in a Democratic majority House last week?
During the many hours spent watching C-SPAN on Friday and Saturday, and in the days since, we’ve been trying to understand what happened (see, for example, the especially helpful comment threads starting here, here and here). Yesterday I spent some more time reading and talking with a very helpful House Rules Committee aide. This will be my attempt to summarize my understanding of what we’ve already discussed and to add my new info from yesterday.
First, in Part I, is a timeline of events for the House - necessary background for Part II. Please let me know if you see any errors or omissions.
In Part II, based on my conversation with the House Rules Committee aide, I’ll try to answer two specific questions: “Why was H.R. 3356 (the negotiated, not-as-bad version) brought to a vote on the house floor under a suspension of house rules so that passage required 2/3 votes? a procedure normally used for non-controversial measures?” and “Why was S.1927 brought to a vote on the house floor without a rule, using instead a unanimous consent agreement that allowed passage by simple majority?”
Answer to Broder’s Refrain.
Broder’s question: Why can’t the Democrats just work with the Republicans to acheive a compromise on legislation important to the American people? The Democrats are at fault for not trying.
Answer: When they try, they just get punked by the Republicans.
Comment: Not only that, the Right Wing press (see Washington Post) blames the Democrats for trying to negotiate with Republicans in good faith and getting punked for it.
Next time we hear this Broder and Leiberman refrain, we have this ready answer.
In a little under three weeks the Minnesota State Fair begins. It is a must-attend event for politicians in this state, where they rub elbows with the common folk.
Amy Klobuchar will hopefully be getting a face-to-face visit from me, and I intend to ask her directly how much time she spent reading the FISA-gutting bill she voted for. And I will let her know how angry I am at her vote, and that matters involving stripping people of their rights and weakening the Constitution deserve more attention than the gentle assurances of one of Bush’s cronies.
Oh yeah, maybe Tim Walz will be there too and he can get the same message.
Jane Hamsher @ 8
jane - i posted some info on a hoyer appearance in your previous thread (city and day info only, location and time TBA). will go look for it later and bring the link to this thread.
Bilbo @ 25
There was a program on NPR (I don’t trust ‘em) yeserday claiming the the kids that are getting screwed vaccine-wise are the kids with insurance. It now costs the better part of $1000 for all the vaccines that are recommended and the government is picking it up for the uninsured but they’ve run out of funds for the under-insured — those come from a different pocket.
What was bogus in their report was the underlying assumption of a fixed, rigid pricing. Those prices are negotiable when things are purchased in very large quantities, e.g., by the government. The problem is that standard medicine is something of a cottage industry, where the individual practice and/or pharmacy has very little leverage with its suppliers. They just pass along to the customers whatever the corporations please to charge.
I called all the D senators who voted for FISA & left strongly scolding messages.
Maloney, my useless rep (she votes the right way, which is the only good thing she does) is not having any constituent events during the August recess. I’ll go visit her local office later in the month after I see my sick brother upstate.
As for Clinton & Schumer . . . enuf said.
TJ @ 47
YES!
puppethead at 48 — I just heard that the GOP-led legislature adjourned without doing any funding at all whatsoever for new infrastructure costs for the bridge that collapsed. OMG, what a nightmare for you guys…really thoughtful on their part, I must say.
I was definitely disappointed that my Senator, Amy Klobuchar, whom I not only voted–but also campaigned–for voted Yea for FISA. Highly disappointed. She campaigned as a progressive, and IIRC, she was on ActBlue.
JF @ 16
At last count, I had three.
Agreeing with looseheadprop here, it was a one two punch. Reid put up S.1927 sponsored by Mitch McConnell. It needed 60 votes to pass and lo and behold it did 60-28. The Senate then proceeded to defeat the Levin bill 43-45 and then adjourned for the month. The Senate version was sent to the House. There a Democratic bill was set up to fail with a 2/3 majority needed to pass while the McConnell bill was set up to pass with a simple majority.
This all didn’t just happen. It was arranged much as the MCA vote was. Reid and Pelosi rigged votes so that Democrats could vote against the bill and still have the bill pass.
Pelosi’s lame call now to reform the reform rings hollow. Leaders in both the House and Senate have wide latitude in what comes up for a vote. They weren’t blindsided. They were the organizers of this fiasco.
katymine @ 43
Would you like an out-of-districter to put in a scolding call? I’d introduce myself by saying that I’m calling all the Ds who voted for FISA.
OT: Regarding mine collapse.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q.....tsdesc.pdf Nellis Air Force Range nuclear test site caliente&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Seismic activity in Nevada, again, in Caliente, Nevada…see link to Nuke testing site.
Seismic activity in Utah within last day, again, which has prevented rescue work.
Coinkydink?
Biodun @ 42
(my bold)
Just WHAT THE flying HELL is Biden talking about? Take Mexico and Canada to the mat to fix NAFTA???? What’s wrong with NAFTA is not CAUSED by Canada or Mexico. Too Funny.
OK Sestak…where was your “objection” when Hoyer sought unanimous consent to bring that Senate abomination to the floor? Why weren’t you standing up against this THEN?
You are complicit. Your pretty speech here is hollow. You could have stopped this train with an “OBJECTION!” but you were silent.
Thanks for nothing. Words are nothing. Actions are everything. No money, no votes for you until you all take ACTION and totally reverse this abomination.
Part I - The House Timeline (for the Senate timeline, please see pow wow’s comment):
Sunday, July 29, 2007
From the ACLU:
Tuesday, July 31, 2007
From the Washington Post:
Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007
The House Committee on Rules reported out H.Res. 600 (Rules committee Report #110-291). Included under this rule was an unspecified FISA amendment. This resolution allowed the “Speaker to entertain motions that the House suspend the rules” for “A bill to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to establish a procedure for authorizing certain electronic surveillance.”
From “Floor Procedure In The U.S. House Of Representatives“:
Friday, Aug 3, 2007 (floor summary)
At 1:19 PM the House took up H.Res. 600 and it was passed (228-196) at 5:14 PM after heated debate. In the midst of that debate, it finally emerged that the FISA bill to be considered if made in order by passage of H.Res. 600, would be H.R. 3356. (see congressional record pages H09663-H09675)
At 5:11 PM, Spencer Ackerman of TPM reports, “Bush Nixed Dem-DNI FISA Deal“
At 7:20 PM, John Conyers moved “to suspend the rules and pass the bill (H.R. 3356).” After debate, H.R.3356 failed at 8:58 PM by a vote of 218 in favor, and 207 opposed after debate. (see congressional record pages H09685-H09695)
During the debate, Nancy Pelosi stated that:
At 8:05 PM the House Rules Committee posted a Notice of Action which included H.Res.613 Rules Committee Report #110-298 and H.Res.614 Rules Committee Report #110-299.
H.Res.613, would have, like the previous H.Res.600, allowed the Speaker to entertain motions that the House suspend the rules for an unspecified FISA amendment. Passage of a FISA amendment via this resolution would require a 2/3 vote.
H.Res.614, on the other hand, would allow a simple majority vote for consideration of an unspecified FISA amendment on Saturday, Sunday or Monday (August 4th through the 6th). Neither of these resolutions would be used.
Saturday, August 4, 2007 (floor summary)
At 8:18 PM Mr. Hoyer asked unanimous consent that, among other things, A that it be in order at any time on the legislative day of August 4, 2007, to consider S. 1927 in the House under the following terms: All points of order against the bill and against its consideration are waived except those arising under clause 10 of rule XXI; The bill shall be considered as read; The previous question shall be considered as ordered on the bill to its final passage without intervening motion except: (a) 1 hour of debate equally divided among and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the committee on the Judiciary and the chairman and ranking minority member of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence; and (b) one motion to recommit…” There was no objection (see congressional record page H09952).
At 8:31 PM Mr. Reyes called up S.1927 for debate. At 10:19 PM the bill passed 227 to 183 (see congressional record pages H09952-H09966)
rocket scientist @ 28
Which fundie
madrassaacademy is this allegedly from? I can’t make out the insignia at the top.As much as I would like this to be real, I have my doubts.
LHP at 19- all of the above?
As I wrote before, I call out congresscritters from both houses when they do good AND when they do bad in the Drinking Liberally bulletin, and encourage any other drinking liberally chapyter leaders who vists FDL to do the same. Then, I call up the various critters and read what i wrote.
that said, Bobby Casey’s office hates my guts right now. I’m sure the pro-life waterhead wishes he could abort ME!
Hugh @ 56
Precisely and absolutely correct. Sestak’s protest/whine is bullshit. Where was his objection to unanimous consent? The Party is absolutely complicit in this because they WANT this authoritarianism. Period.
OT–breaking:
Steve-AR @ 44
Glenn Greenwald over at salon.com makes the case that Rove et. al. fought ‘06 on the ’soft on terror’ and ‘wiretapping is necessary’ memes and lost in proportion to how hard this strategy was played. People are tired of this crap and aren’t taking it anymore.
So, if Nancy et. al. knew what they were doing they would know they should not fear these attacks for ‘08. On the contrary, folding to this nonsense is a threat to Dem prospects in ‘08.
allan_in_upstate @ 61
If you go to http://www.jabberwonk.com/ and put your mouse over the link for “Texas high school description of math class” it shows up as a link to page on chfbs.org That is the website for Castle Hills First Baptist School. I’m afraid that is not a hoax, but is, in fact, a real curriculum description.
Part II: “Why was H.R. 3356 (the negotiated, not-as-bad version) brought to a vote on the house floor under a suspension of house rules so that passage required 2/3 votes? a procedure normally used for non-controversial measures?” and “Why was S.1927 brought to a vote on the house floor without a rule, using instead a unanimous consent agreement that allowed passage by simple majority?”
As I now understand it (thanks to a patient House Rules aide - all errors are my own), there are two standard ways to bring a bill like H.R. 3356 to a quick floor vote. The most common way would have been to use a special rule like H.Res.614 that would allow a simple majority vote - but would require giving the minority the right to a motion to recommit. A motion to recommit would mean that the minority would have the option to submit one amendment to the bill - and in this case could have used S.1927 as an amendment to substitute for the language of H.R. 3356.
On Friday night, though, this type of special rule was not used - instead H.Res.600 (H.Res.613 is similar) was used to allow suspension of the rules and voting to pass by 2/3 majority. This type of procedure does not require giving the minority the option to recommit.
So, why did the House leadership decide, on Wednesday, to bring H.R. 3356 to a vote under a suspension of the rules (which is supposed to only be used for non-controversial measures) on Friday - and then stick with this when negotiations with the DNI collapsed on Friday? Why wasn’t a rule like H.Res.614 used? I can think of a few possible reasons:
Next, why did the House leadership decide, probably on Saturday, to use the very unusual procedure of a unanimous consent agreement for S.1927? What I was told is that the final result of going this route was the same as if H.Res.614 had been used - except that is was much faster (fewer votes, less debate). So, if the decision was to get S.1927 passed, this was the fastest way to get it done. Furthermore, if any congressmember had objected to the unanimous consent agreement, unlike in the Senate, it would not have proceeded to a supra-majority vote. Instead, H.Res.614 would have been used… and since the outcome would be the same (only it would take longer), there was no reason for anyone to object.
So, I conclude that the House leadership decided to pass the administration bill, S.1927, in the quickest way possible… and that the vote Friday night on H.R. 3356 was just a bit of political theater. Perhaps they wanted to show that they had negotiated a not-so-bad bill that was more responsible in addressing the administration’s request/demand. Perhaps they wanted to make it look like they were trying to fight against President Bush’s unreasonable demands - even though they had decided not to. Maybe it was a bit of both.
And if you think it looks bad for the House leadership - just take a look at the Senate.
Looks like Clyburn will be golfing on Saturday…
http://www.thetandd.com/articl.....185038.txt
OT– Musharraf just picked up his toys and left!
This is potentially explosive.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap.....99444.html
eCAHNomics @57 - Please do….
His staff are saying ….”wait until you receive Mitchell’s letter explaining the reasons for the vote”…. NO explanation but some letter that will be sent at my expense knowing what it will say… Blah..Blah…Blah… “you don’t understand how government works”…. blah blah blah… it sunsets…. blah.. blah… ya and he used that glossy paper too… wow will I be impressed and educated!
Harry Mitchell
Telephone: (480) 946-2411
Fax: (480) 946-2446
Biodun @ 65
Good. I think all interest groups should hold their endorsements. It’s far too early.
7.3 earthquake near Jakarta, Indonesia.
LS @ 58
Much more likely [ he says, folding up his tin-fail hat ] is that the
“roof and pillar” mining method caused the collapse, and the collapse caused the 3.9 quake.
Exactly the same method caused the collapse of the Azko slat mine near Geneseo, NY,
a few years ago, triggering a 2.5 quake.
It is a dangerous, risky way of mining.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 41
My intention isn’t to offend you by means of condensation towards you. Far from it. And, yes, I really like to play poker since I was a child. I’m OK at it but certainly wouldn’t go on national TV. As for “bad call” I see it as an error in judgment at a critical time. And, yes, my patience are frayed at this point.
I presume he has “adequate” health insurance (pace last thread):
katymine @ 71
How much you wanna bet Harry’s letter tracks DiFi’s almost exactly?
JF @ 68
Yikes.
They have been in business since 1981.
Meaning that they may have graduates in the Bush administration.
Is this the sort of place you send your kid to give them a leg-up getting into Regent?
Elliott @ 29
par for the course, Bush Kangaroo Protocol is pure Bushit.
how about getting Sen. Whitehouse’s “Whitehouse protocol chart” to our elected reps.? especial delivery…confront with visual snapshot of our current Abu and DOJ crisis.
katymine @ 70
Done. Finished off with that I was active in politics and that we were not going to vote for Ds in 08 who cave into W.
OT: Just say NO to Shell gas:
Ben Stevens, the former state senator who has come under scrutiny along with his father in a broad federal public corruption probe, has taken a new job far from his Anchorage home.
The younger Stevens has been hired as a crewman aboard a work boat supporting Dutch oil giant Shell’s planned Arctic Ocean exploratory drilling campaign.
OldCoastie @ 3
I was reading a story online last night (AP/Earthlink) that the seismologists are saying the mine collapse was the earthquake - it’s way too shallow for a regualr quake, even in Utah (the USGS says about a mile down), and they were saying the waveforms were all wrong also (I don’t quite follow what they were saying: something about the forces being in the wrong direction). The mine owner is trying to say it’s the other way around, which I suspect would be to his benefit since it would make it Not His Problem.
Either way, I think that the trapped miners are dead. That was a big collapse, if it registered over Richter 3.
NANCY PELOSI IN PORTSMOUTH NH TODAY AT 4:30PM!!!
I am stuck at work in Mass, so I can’t go BUT, if there is anyone in Northern Mass, NH Seacoast or Southern Maine, Pelosi will be doing a press conference with Carol Shea-Porter at the Portsmouth Library at 4:30pm TODAY. Here are the specifics of the email sent to me this AM:
Press conference:
Wednesday August 8 at 4:30 PM (please arrive at 4pm. Levenson meeting room of the Portsmouth Public Library, 175 Parrott Avenue.
Directions: From the “Rusty Hammer” restaurant (corner of Pleasant and State streets): take right onto Pleasant St. coming north on State street. Go short distance on Pleasant past Citizen’s Bank, then take right onto Junkins Avenue, then immediate right onto Parrott Avenue. Library is on the right (quarter-mile down) immediately following school building on the right just before Richards Avenue. Library is brand-new and has no signage as yet.
Selise and Powwow - this is awesome work. I’ve sent links to the two summaries out to a large list of our blog colleagues … let’s hope that helps move this along.
LS @ 73
USGS link 7.4, 70 mi from Jakarta.
FISA was a bad “fix” by congress after Nixon abused the system. And now, thirty years later, we are all trying to get original FISA procedure back.
While I agree with the short term goal of Feingold et al and intend to help any way possible, I think we on the left need to remember much more of the fourth amendment needs to be restored than what we are considering this month/yr.
To me this is another win for the Blue Dog trianulators who helped neo fascists game the system with fear tactics against the so called left/civil liberty crowd… simply because we are fighting for a result that will leave our privacy completely compromised with no real respect for fourth amendment protections.
It’s like debating injection vs the chair instead of fighting to end state executions.
That said, Sestaks argument is one of the best things I have heard him say.. I hope in the short term the Dems use these talking points
http://www.sloopo.com/index.ph.....-response/
Despite his call for the nation to show a “surge of support” for U.S. forces in Iraq, Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney on Wednesday defended his five sons’ decision not to enlist.
“One of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping me get elected because they think I’d be a great president.”
Romney’s five sons range in age from 37 to 26 and have worked as real estate developers, sports marketers and advertising executives. They are now actively campaigning for their father and have a “Five Brothers” blog on Romney’s campaign Web site.
allan_in_upstate @ 62