As most of you probably know, yesterday marked the sixth anniversary of the famous “Bin Laden Determined To Strike Inside US” PDB, and Bush’s truly amazing reaction to it. Not “Get me Clarke, Freeh, and Tenet right now – we need to get to work on this ASAP!”, not even “Andy, go delegate this to someone,” but a sneering, dismissive, “All right, you’ve covered your ass.” Can anyone think of another president in American history who would have reacted with such unconcern?
And yet, this spectacular failure, while bad for the country and tragic for the victims and their families, was the best thing that ever happened to Dubya. It allowed him to seize unprecedented executive power, to start a destructive, immoral war (it’s like the world’s biggest frog and the world’s biggest firecracker!), and to get elected to a second term, none of which would have been possible without 9/11.
In fact, his subsequent failures to combat terrorism (no, confiscating nail clippers and invading Iraq do not count) or end the war have served only to tighten his grip on power, as witness the latest rollback of FISA oversight, and the Habeas Corpus Elimination Act before that.
Dubya has transformed failing upward into an art form, first parlaying his business failures into a governorship and the presidency, then parlaying his presidential failures into a near dictatorship. He has got to be the lemonade-makingest man on the planet – but no-one else gets to drink it.
Sure, his popularity is in Nixonland, and Leahy, Waxman, and Conyers are on his case, but none of that really affects him. Thanks to blindly loyal Republicans, clueless Democrats, and co-opted corporate media, he still gets to do whatever he wants. You might even say that this failure thing is working out very well for him.
I wonder where he’d be if he were competent.
(If this post is too depressing, maybe tomorrow’s anniversary will cheer you up…)
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I got the Zed in bed
zunoed?
and failure is no success at all.
Ah, missed it by THAT much…
ccmask @ 1
Oh baby.
Eli @ 5
lol
Yesterday was the 62nd anniversary of Hiroshima. BTW, the highest unadjusted SAT score was for 1963.
In law, there is a saying – if you want to find the guilty party, look at “cui bono” – who benefits. Nice to see at least a bit of discourse on the subject.
Zed? Can it be?
spoonful @ 8
It sure would have been nice if they performed a 9-11 investigation but, oh, that’s right, CNN told us Usama did it.
If W were competent, he’s be nowhere because he wouldn’t allow himself to do krony kapitalism.
There is nothing like a zed, in bed, she said.
Sounds like Ham & Eggs, a little.
Eli,
in re: tomorrow’s anniversary, thirty-three years ago I was absolutely delighted at the action taken. Little Boots unfortunately makes the Trickster look like an honorable and law-abiding citizen.
Someone earlier today mentioned seeing a bumper sticker that said: “I never thought I’d miss Nixon”
That pretty much covers it in a nutshell.
I can only imagine that the Administration will claim this as their next victory: BUSH CLAIMS DECISIVE VICTORY IN WAR ON TERROR: RAID ON AL QAEDA JUNGLE GYM
dakine01 @ 4
Would you believe…(Said in best Don Adams’ voice)
none of which would have been possible without 9/11.
Just a coincidence, I tell ya.
The demise of accountabilitery. Frightening in its pervasiveness.
ccmask @ 10
My 9/11 “theory” is that BushCo. expected and *wanted* an attack so they could start turning the Middle East into a democratic paradise, but did not expect the attack to be nearly as huge and horrific as it actually was.
If George Bush is the peter-principle in action, what then does this say, if anything, about Rove, Rice, Karen Hughes and Cheney. Among others.
(If this post is too depressing, maybe tomorrow’s anniversary will cheer you up…)
Knowing it’s Nixon Resignation Day tomorrow will make my double wisdom tooth extraction that much more enjoyable.
And Thursday’s Nagasaki Day! Is this a great week or what?
My 9/11 “theory” is that BushCo. expected and *wanted* an attack so they could start turning the Middle East into a democratic paradise, but did not expect the attack to be nearly as huge and horrific as it actually was.
Uh-oh. The topic that is truly not appropriate at this blog.
I’ve got the scars to prove it.
dakine01 @ 13
John Rogers at Kung Fu Monkey had an absolutely brilliant post about how the Republicans’ secret weapon is their total lack of shame.
The FBI Can’t Link Bin Laden to 9/11? Why Is This Not News?
Published: Today, 11:50 AM
The statement saying the FBI had no hard evidence was released in June of 2006. The implication is that the FBI doesn’t believe the video constitutes hard evidence of Bin Laden’s involvement.
Eli: Too bad Bush didn’t read Nixon’s speech before he pushed for war.
In the Middle East, 100 million people in the Arab countries, many of whom have considered us their enemy for nearly 20 years, now look on us as their friends. We must continue to build on that friendship so that peace can settle at last over the Middle East and so that the cradle of civilization will not become its grave.–Dick Nixon
Oklahoma kiddo @ 18
They’re all way beyond the Perter Principle. It’s fascism lite desperately trying to become fascism heavy. At least Hitler was competent enuf to win wars.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 19
Actually Bush is the epitome of the Dilbert Principle in action.
I thought his reply to Condi was:
“Oh horseshit, those Ragheads aren’t capable of flying modern jet aircraft into a building – it’ll never happen!”
jayt @ 20
It’s as far as I’ll go. The conspiracy stuff about how it was all controlled demolition just gives me a pain, and I apologize for opening the door to that conversation again.
radiofreewill @ 26
I think his reply was more like, “shhh! let’s tone down our defenses for next few months.”
TexBetsy @ 22
The FBI couldn’t find its *ss with a rear view mirror. And that predates W. Imagine how bad it is now.
Although I was amused & gratified that they will now acccept people who’ve smoked pot as agents.
9/11 the day the Democratic Party died.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 18
No, the Peter Principle dictates that failure doesn’t accelerate advancement; it stops it.
The government’s explanation of 9-11 is also, by definition, a “conspiracy theory”.
And I’ll stop now too.
Eli @ 32
Sorry Eli, I believe the Peter Principle is that people get promoted to their level of incompetence.
The Dilbert Principle is that people get promoted beyond their level of incompetence.
dakine01 @ 33
Yes, I was restating the Peter Principle to better contrast it with the Dubya Principle.
Eli @ 27
I was good. I ignored your comment.
I was intrigued when John Pilger said on democracynow this today that W wanted to attack (invade?) Afghanistan before 9/11. I think I heard it right. It was toward the end of the program, and I can’t imagine that’s accurate. That all-but-Allah-foresken-place that was the graveyard of the Evil Empire? Probably not worth trying to find out more about what he meant. I’m not familiar with Pilger, but he seemed like a solid citizen.
http://www.democracynow.org/streampage.pl
(Because once they reach their level of incompetence, that’s when they start to fail, thus halting their advancement)
Now all he needs is the world’s biggest can of Mr. Toady’s Wild Astroglide and he’ll be in Frog Heaven.
;>)
Haven’t seen this posted
Glen Greenwald and Marjorie Cohn on Democracy Now last night talking about the program
http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..06/1340209
Hugh @ 30
OBL declared war on the United States & won it in one day. (Well, except for the planning.)
Eli @ 34
Dubya has no principles.
It’s truly amazing how successful his failures have been.
dakine01 @ 33
The Dilbert Principle is the canon of the military’s promotion system!!!
W was Dilbert Principle from birth, if those tales of firecrackers in frogs are accurate.
eCAHNomics @ 36
Before 9/11, Bush didn’t know where Afghanistan was or if it was. Even after 9/11, Rumsfeld first choice was an attack on Iraq not Afghanistan.
Of late I have been pondering how bad all the generals are who came of age during VN. It really twisted their brains. Made them into complete toadys.
Hugh @ 43
Yeah, that’s why I found Pilger’s comment so bizarre. Heck, Rummy didn’t want to attack Afghanistan AFTER 9/11. Maybe Pilger had a brain fart & meant Iraq.
I was thinking that the ‘peter principle’ involved the idea that certain people rose to a level of their incompetence. So I suppose in that sense it is finite. But in the case of Bush and certain others, incompetance seems to be somewhat infinite. Oh well. Who cares? Perhaps what I really mean is for a select few it’s “screw up; go up”. ;0)
GWB reminds me of an old Army expression:
“You fuck up, you move up!”
Hugh @ 43
“There aren’t any targets in Afghanistan!”
Now that’s how to war plan.
Elliott @ 40
There was a riff I decided against including in the post, describing what this would look like in the corporate world.
Say I negligently e-mail a customer’s proprietary info to their competitor, and my company gets slapped with a big lawsuit and reputation hit.
In the real world, I would be summarily fired. In the world Bush inhabits, he would have been put in charge of damage control, and given a big promotion because they wouldn’t want a junior person working on damage control.
Also, as long as the fiasco was still playing out, he couldn’t be fired because this kind of damage control was know his specialty (even though he obviously sucked at it and was actually prolonging and expanding the crisis).
I’m still trying to figure out how 2 planes turned 3 skyscrapers to powder at freefall speed.
Hugh @ 43
And Feith wanted to attack South America… because they’d never expect it!
Jonathan @ 7
I think they have “re-normalized” the SAT three times since then. Got to keep up with grade inflation.
i was epu’d from last thread, but it is on topic here-
in reference to the post uptop——
i have to say this, i used to work for the phone company………there was legal, and there was illegal….and it was a very defined line…..there was company policy and there was you better do what you are told………but there was NEVER a doubt about what was right……..i had to work in pete rose’s neighborhood for weeks, literally in front of his house, and he came out and asked me what i was doing there, when his gambling was going on, at the same time, there was a big thing going on in cincinnati about wiretaps…quite a few happening then…….i took the heat for it…….and i was a lowly outside craft person……..everyone in the neighborhood thought i was wiretapping them……no, unless i accidentally hooked into their conversations while trying to call into the office for a test or to tell them about my next repair order……….
the things that are going on now are far removed from the people that work there………..and i have to say, i find it hard to believe that any of it impacts any of us directly………
that being said, computers can do a lot……….i said repeatedly after 911, that a mere voice print picked up by satellite could locate osama bin laden, and how we didn’t know where he was was a bunch of bullshit……voiceprints are easy……old technology……..there’s no way we didn’t know where he was……….
and fisa……..fishin’ for a mission……..fishin’ for substance……..cuz they lost the ball of using the technology they already had, and they’ve figured out how to not use it………duh……….so, they want to track interactions to match up a pattern, because he has dropped out of sight….and now they want to use fisa to track people…..that will lead nowhere……..the second bananas, they dropped the ball, they had him with technology that was already in place and they blew it……….
Steve-AR @ 53
But a larger segment of the population is taking the SAT now.
eCAHNomics @ 45
Actually, I’d blame the transition from the Draft Army to the All-Volunteer Army, therein lies the problem!!!
how about because two of those buildings had all the structural support pushed to the outside walls to increase office space and the third had ~20,000 gallons of fuel on the upper floors?
So. Are we prepared to say that Rove, Bush, Condi, Karen Hughes, Harriet Miers, Libby, and Cheney are all ‘peters’?
owlbear1- Nice try.
Eli @ 49
There are respectible (I think) firms that do crisis control for corporations – like the poison in the Anacin, or whatever the product was. W clearly hasn’t tapped them for advice. But then he thinks he’sdone no damage.
Not to mention the third building had parts of the first two tear 20 story holes in it.
jayt @ 33
jayt. have taken this discussion elsewhere, too. Although whether conspiracy-mockers like to admit it or not, FISA is in place due to threats of LIHOP. That’s who we’re dealing with. Some know more about what that means in real life than others.
At any rate, one can’t be a progressive and avoid discussing it, somehow.
peace ~
Eli @ 49
oh, I like all that, I’m glad you put it in the comments!
I just don’t understand how Bush World maintains itself, but I guess that’s the point!
“Dubya has transformed failing upward into an art form, first parlaying his business failures into a governorship and the presidency, then parlaying his presidential failures into a near dictatorship. He has got to be the lemonade-makingest man on the planet.”
Damn, that is fuh-ny. Writing, I mean. Not, you know, reality. But funny, tho.
owlbear1- I’m afraid you might be reaching.
eCAHNomics @ 59
Sure, that’s what would happen in the *real* world. But in Bush’s world, he gets put in charge of the mess he created (or allowed to happen), and actually benefits from it enormously.
dmac @ 54
Well….OBL stopped using the phone back in the mid-90’s.
Ghostman
CTuttle @ 55
Plz elaborate. Is it because in a voluteer army you have to toady down as well as up?
I’m not trying to convince you E. You sound damned and determined to re-live 9/11 over and over again.
#51
Try gravity and the sheer weight of steel and concrete.
—
In other news, this headline caught my eye on the Earthlink news sidebar:
Dear Ghu, if it’s being put in headlines, it must be getting down to new lows.
Ghostman @ 67
Yeah, he couldn’t carry the phone and pull his Dialysis machine at the same time.
Lotta folks talkin’ here as if Bush screwed up on 9/11. Seems like even in the blogosphere folks simply cannot face the possibility that everything that happened on and after 9/11….
Went exactly to plan.
The ‘incompetence meme’ is awfully handy for sweeping a whole buch of stuff under the rug.
It’s utter bullshit by the way. He’s way more competent than any ‘Democrat’ sitting in Congress and he’s got the record of beating them like a drum to prove it.
That’s why we need a real big change in this nation. ‘Take out the Trash’ and electing Edwards would be a good start.
ccmask @ 70
The iPhone can do both.
owlbear1- I would say the complicit are more more “damned” than I.
Lahoma has viewed the pix at the top and suspects it is a picture of a margarita. So of course now she wants one. We like our margaritas like slush. No mix if you please and out by the pool almost everynight. And that’s the way I build ‘em. Lahoma says she has thoughts about tonights Demo forum for me if I’m interested. Can we go to the pool, kiddo, she asks. Such a rough life.
eCAHNomics @ 36
John Pilger is an Australian journalist who has worked in the UK for a number of years. I think he first came to prominence with his reports about the killing fields of Kampuchea. His speciality is righteous indignation, which becomes tiresome after a while. He does, however, choose the right subjects about which to become indignant.
ghostman at 67 says-”Well….OBL stopped using the phone back in the mid-90’s.”
his cohorts didn’t……….that’s what i heard………firsthand, by the way.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
No, it’s lemonade. Honey citrus lemonade, to be specific.
The dialysis machine theory is interesting. We know that he received treatment some years earlier….evidence of on-going usage seems unclear to me. I can’t say you’re right, and can’t say you’re wrong!
Ghostman
P J Evans @ 70
But…but…but…Drudge says he’s going up in the polls! Before you know it, he’ll be skyrocketing to 35%! And he’s going to hold his breath and stomp his feet until it happens!
owlbear1 @ 69
any questions?
Richmond @ 55
True, and that is a good thing..but rather than addressing falling scores by increasing educational opportunity..they artificially inflate the scores. Da..Da problem solved.
E I used to be where you are. Its a sad place to be.
LET IT GO.
You’ll be able to appreciate life a whole lot more.
Just checked and MSNBC did not put up a who won the debate poll this time.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
For large parties, I do frozen margaritas as follows: 1 can limeade, 1 can water, 1 can Sousa tequilla. Stir. Stick in freezer. Stir when ready. No one’s every turned one down yet.
dmac @ 77
You’re talking to his cohorts? And I was worried that the NSA was tapping MY phone.
eCAHNomics @ 68
Within the volunteer regime, it’s always ‘HOO-AH’ attitude, damn the consequences! Previously a healthy skepticism toward a mission was at least acknowledged, today, it is squashed!!!
Eli @ 52
Feith’s genius was that he was such a forward thinker. He could f*ck up things up before they even happened.
Persiflage @ 75
Thanks for the background. It’s great when you listen to these sorts for the first several times, but after that it gets repetitive. Why I stopped reading Counterpunch & Truthout.
The problem is, he’s very very competent at one thing.. seizing power, keeping it, and using it to get more power. Unfortunately, that’s kind of all that matters to him… the other stuff, like losing wars, drowning cities, cronies stealing from the treasury, torturing, spying, whatever.. is all just the kinder in the bonfire of his vanities
So is the debate over?
Listen, I don’t want to offend A*P*C.
Eureka Springs @ 83
I wonder why? hmmm
actually, scratch vanities and replace it with megalomania.
CTuttle @ 56
What happens to the officers who learned from Vietnam is they were sidetracked and refused high rank, by the Pentagon, because the worst thing you can do in the Army is to be right when your superiors are wrong. Promotion is based on fitness reports, written by your superiors, and the one thing that gets you ahead is not making waves. Everything that makes for a good war-fighter is detrimental to advancement. By the time they get to 2, 3, and 4 stars, they are so politicized that all they can do is say “how hi?” when someone asks them to jump. Dilbert principle in spades!
Chris Matthews,you’re fired.
The first thing outta the fool’s mouth was how small Edwards looked in a freaking stadium. Insinuating,of course,that he’s small,weak,teeny,a speck in the field of candidates.
Can I just ask,who WOULD NOT look small in a stadium?
A little while later the lot of ‘em started yammering about DC Insiders picking the candidates,and yippity yappity. I have another question. Isn’t Chris Matthews a freaking inside the Beltway guy? Aren’t most of the others guys on his”post debate analysis”show?
And really,how MANY times did he have to show Hillary saying”I’m your girl” to fight the right wing clip?
Surely Chris has enough money to go enjoy himself for the rest of his life,yes? I so wish he’d retire,buy a golf course or something.
This crap is hurting the country,people really need to start telling these morons to shut up.
eCAHNomics @ 36
They were pissed at the Taliban, because the Taliban did not want the US to run the Unocal pipeline through Afghanistan. I remember reading that they had plans to take forceful measures. The Taliban did visit Houston not long before 9/11 in negotiations with the oil companies. Oddly, the “spokesman” for the Taliban, was granted entry to Yale, after 9/11. Google it.
Ctuttle @ 86.
Thx. Another prime example of the Law of the Unintended Consequence. Someone should make a list of those.
Yeah, I just don’t understand the incompetency meme. As far as I can tell Bush has gotten almost everything he ever wanted, including a permanent state of war.
Bush is a flake. The issue is how did we ever nominate gore and kerry and elect the clintons, appoint goofs like tenet. It is systemic and bush is just the result and on top of that he is an illusion. The country is being run by cheney and rove.
Elliott @ 92
You’re Right! This is the best they did:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19679074/
Eureka Springs @ 84
All I’ve seen is a “who would be best for labor” poll.
* @ 97
And it’s entirely possible that it’s all deliberate. But the fact remains that the foundation of his success is composed of actions that most sane people would consider to be world-class fuckups.
SeamusD @ 94
I see some one else agrees with my personal experiences!!! *g*
Discussion of the details of that horrific day nearly 6 yrs. ago is taboo on almost any blog, which I just don’t understand. UBL and the rest of the Afghani rebels fighting the Soviets were CIA assets. This fact raises few eyebrows. Go figure.
eCAHNomics @ 89
You nailed it ECahn, Pilger is a very Counterpunch type of guy.
Funny how the first big chess move seems to be 9/11. They play it freely all the time, but if the people utter anything challenging the proven liars’ story, the citizens are demonized as conspiracy theorists. Just sayin’
Somethin’ just ain’t right.
eCAHNomics @ 85
Lahoma prefers Sousa. I like Cuervo Classico. I say Cuervo has more of a chocolate flavor. Lahoma says Sousa does. But what do I know. We carry both brands. ;0)
LS @ 94
W was going to attack Afghanistan before 9/11 because of the Unocal pipeline? Whoa. That seems pretty off the charts.
LS- I think you might be on to something.
owlbear1 @ 69
You kidding.. shrub has the dream every night.
dakine01 @ 34
[emphasis added]
What difference does it make whether you’re at or beyond your level of incompetence? Doesn’t it all amount to the same thing?
Bob in HI
CTuttle @ 103
Oh yeah. Been there, done that!
it’s just a marvelous coincidence it was for Cheney & Bush, a ‘new pearl harbor’, tailormade as a pretext for creative destruction!
another coincidence, the BBC announces the collapse of WTC 7 with it still standing in the background behind them!
coincidentally, all systems defending the one of the most heavily secured buildings in the country, the Pentagon, all failed at once, >poof!coincidentally, 9/11 they tell the truth about!)
persiflage @ 104
G’day Persi! How’s your neck of the ocean? ;-)
dmac @ 54
dmac, I really don’t understand what you mean by ” I find it hard to believe that any of it impacts any of us directly” If it’s data mining, doesn’t it affect us all?
Hugh @ 88
Of course Bush knew where Afghanistan was. His whole family and friends are in the oil business. Don’t buy the incompetent crappola. This stuff is by design.
jayt @ 16
No one could have anticipated an attack on the WTC on 9-11. No one except the AIR FORCE which was running operation “Vigilant Guardian” on that day. This was a “simulation” of an attack on the WTC. Why were no jet fighters available to defend NYC?
Jay @ 103
It’s a been-there-done-that kind of thing. We don’t know any more than we did a few years later. By now, it’s just mental masturbation.
Expose 9/11
or
They’ll do it again
Bob Schacht @ 109
Well, the Peter Principle has a rational foundation: All things being equal, when someone does their job well, they get promoted. When they don’t do their job well, they don’t get promoted. So once they reach a level where they don’t do their job well, the promotions stop.
But something irrational has to be at work when someone *continues* getting promotions even when they do nothing but fuck up.
My son was a bartender for awhile. He learned in bartending school that Sousa was better quality for lower price – that you’re paying for Cuervo’s ridiculous marketing when you buy it, and why should I swallow that. Besides in a margaita, you can’t taste the difference anyhow.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 108
Patron. Any variety.
As often as possible ; )
(ok, that’s not often, just sayin’)
LS @ 95
Exhibit A
http://www.chevron.com/news/ar…..-asian.gif
anangryoldbroad @ 95
LOL…I screamed at the TV too. Pathetic little creep couldn’t wait to say how good Hiliary did. It makes me sick. I had to shut it off.
SeamusD @ 111
The irony was I was so indispensable, they had no choice but to promote to keep me! I relished every moment! I covered their asses in so many ways!!!
eCAHNomics @ 46
oddly enough, that attack may have resulted in the only two Americans not actually involved in theft of public funds to actually benefit from shrubco’s foreign policies: Heather Mercer and Dana Curry.. the two hapless aid workers who got “rescued” from being chopped up by the Talibs for passing out Bibles just as OBL decided to attack NYC.
eCAHNomics @ 108
There is tons of evidence about that. Karen Kwiatkowski has written about how the bases in Afghanistan are built along the pipeline route. I think it was in Fahrenheit 9/11 too.
It is all about oil. Bush, Saudis, Carlyle, Halliburton. I don’t understand why people find that so hard to look into, but they do. The Bandar Bush scandal might rock the house soon though.
SeamusD & Ctuttle
I’ve forwarded your hypotheses to my army major efriend (early 40s). He doesn’t respond to all my missives, but I’ll let you know if he has an opinion. He’s not a fan of the military, and I think is hanging out there until some retirement goal is met.
owlbear1 @ 61
LINKY? WTC was undamaged when it fell in 6 seconds-a perfect example of controlled demolition. Watch the video.
eCAHNomics,
I wouldn’t consider seeking the truth mental masturbation, especially regarding matters that change the course of history. I’ll say no more on the subject.
We’re having bbq’d fresh oysters tonight, just the two of us for a change. Lahoma’s doing the oysters and I’m in charge of other things. The Japanese lanterns over the pool are on and so are the pool lights. Looks like an emerald in our back yard. Our back yard goes for about seventy acres due south to Texas. The Cicadas are singing to us and it’s hot and very humid. Politics and other things are on the agenda. A warm Oklahoma summer good evening to you all. ;0)
eCAHNomics @ 127
LOL! That’s why He/She is a Major! I was always enlisted, it certainly has its benefits!
BigMitch @ 3
Statues made of matchsticks
Crumble into one another
My love winks she does not bother
She knows to much to argue or to judge
SteveAudio published a post this morning at HuffPo with a nearly identical headline (different subject, though)
Taliban spokesman at Yale, from a Yale website…remember Bush 41 and 43 went to Yale:
http://www.yaledailynews.com/a…..?badlink=1
And what about the anthrax, which helped pass the Patriot Act.
Oooh,9/11 brainstorming,can I play?(just for a bit?)
Argh. I think this will be the last time I ever refer to 9/11 at FDL.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 130
Hmmm… I’ve heard that Oysters are an excellent aphrodisiac, as if you need any further fuel for that fire!!! 8-)
Jay, I’m all for truth seeking, but not by going over the same old stuff over & over. We just don’t have enuf new info to make it worthwhile right now. The available stuff has been rehashed and rehashed and rehashed.
Though tonight I learned about Taliban bases along pipeline route. I’ve not done much reading about that.
anangryoldbroad- As long as you don’t say anything of substance.
CTuttle @ 125
I couldn’t take it. Saw no reason to enable the SOB’s, got out. Glad I did.
OKK, how come Lahoma never speaks to us? You guys have a wonderful evening.
How do you BBQ an oyster? They’re awfully slippery!
Eli @ 135
lol sympathetically
Eli @ 138
Why?
LS @ 145
Because the post always ends up turning into an argument about whether 9/11 was a government conspiracy.
ccmask @ 134
Ooh, look, a bright shiny object…!!!
Have any of you all seen Paul Thompson’s 9/11 Timeline? I have it in book form,but there’s an online version,which has probably made my book obsolete since it was an open ongoing project. The website is for the Center for Cooperative Research at http://www.cooperativeresearch.org. Very interesting stuff there. It seems pretty well sourced,but I haven’t checked it in a long while.
Eli @ 121
You miss my point. I fully understand about being promoted beyond ones level of competence. You’re missing that prefix IN-. If you’re ALREADY incompetent, what difference does it make if you get promoted beyond your level (i.e., to a yet higher level) of INcompetence? At either level, you’re still incompetent. I suppose the main difference is that you get to operate your incompetence on a grander scale.
Bob in HI
anangryoldbroad- How about David Ray Griffin’s “Debunking 9/11 Debunking”?
Elliott @ 93
Cause Obama lied about lobbyists (Didn’t he? Demerits for that) and Hillary didn’t answer the question about lobbyist money (demerits, even though she looked positively sickly at that point, so maybe she was really ill who knows.)
Bob Schacht @ 149
Incompetence is not necessarily an absolute quality. I was spectacularly good at data entry – double the baseline speed, and pretty accurate. But I was a pretty crappy supervisor.
Fortunately, I managed to make a diagonal move to a job that I was much better suited to, and have made no attempt to get promoted out of it.
So, when Fox Noise talks about the debate they’ll have to utter the name that shall not be named.
Keith Olbermann
LOL
But if MSNBC put up a poll and I could rig the results the republikan way I’d say (1) Edwards, (2) Dodd, (3) Kucinich, (4) Richardson, (5) Tie, Hillary=Obama.
Cozumel @ 153
Lord Olbemort.
Eli @ 138
Eli, 9/11 is the dead elephant in the middle of the road. How people deal with it says more about them than about the elephant. Whether you drive around it, through it, turn around and go home again….some folks stop and spend the rest of their lives looking at it. It does not affect your excellent post.
Cozumel @ 153
Kinda would stick in Billo’s craw, eh?!!! ;-)
This is not an “argument”. This is an interview. If it is so offensive, it will be the last thing I post about what I think still needs to be resolved, because 9/11 is at the heart of everything we are struggling with everyday:
http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/…..amp;Disp=0
Shadowstalker- It’s only the pretense for everthing that’s followed.
Moveon’s petition re FISA:
http://pol.moveon.org/pac/capi…..74&t=2
Thanks, Shadowstalker. I was kinda hoping the post would turn into more of a conversation about just how skewed our political system of risk/reward/accountability is, but in retrospect I can see where it would invite this particular discussion…
eCAHNomics @ 140
In a sense I agree. The only thing I’m sure about is that we should keep our eye on the ball and nobody should get a free pass (indemnification)on anything until we have a new administration.
I’ve not read that one,but I have heard him speak. Information Clearing house has some of his talks online.
I don’t know who or what to believe,but I do know this much: Alot of questions weren’t answered that damned sure should have been. Stuff leading up to that day and all the crap since then don’t exactly make it easy to dismiss those questions either. But hey,I’m just a girl,what do I know?
Everythingseemssoneat @ 150
eCAHNomics @ 140
I don’t have any pony in this race. The point to me of David Ray Griffin’s books is that he raises issues that were never checked out by the original 9/11 commission. I’d like them, or an equivalent commission, to convene again, specifically to make a judgment on the David Ray Griffin evidence, and the other “evidence” raised on this thread.
In other words, the 9/11 commission acted like a “supreme court” on 9/11. I accept their judgment on the evidence they evaluated. But David Ray Griffen has raised evidence that has not received the same level of scrutiny, or the same high level verdict. With subpoena power to investigate. That’s what I want to happen.
Bob in HI
Actually instead of looking back at 9/11, I’d like to dream of a future where Sampson and Monika Goodling et al are working at Burger King, & on parole.
Before we go too far down the road on the subject of conspiracy theories, I’d like to say that 20/20 hindsight is a good thing, but not necessarily too helpful here. At the time, I supported attacking Afghanistan, and, had that war been prosecuted correctly, I would still support it. OBL, whatever his origins and CIA connections might have been during the cold war, IS a monster, and well before he attacked us.
I had the misfortune of travelling in the Mollucas right before the turn of the century and got trapped with some VSO volunteers, I had to get evacuated after I saw Christian villagers get hacked to death by foreign jihadists who proceeded, in front of me, to stick posters with OBL’s face on it up on walls in the village I had just seen ethnically cleansed. I had no idea who the guy was at the time, but I sure recognized the image after of his face when it hit the papers after the USS Cole attack, a year later. I later caught up with some of the locals I’d met, who’d manage to escape to Australia and other countries and all of them talked about the Arabs/Saudis in the streets. They allege that OBL financed/largely instigated the Lashkar Jihad’s recruitment of street thugs elsewhere in the region to atack the Christian islands, resulting in unknown hundreds of noncombatant deaths.. if not more, nobody knows.. it was all coverd up by the Islamists and their sympathizers in the army.
I’m sorry.. but we were justified in going after OBL, and shrub’s greatest failure may that he gave up pretty gave up the pursuit about a month after he started it.
“It allowed him to seize unprecedented executive power, to start a destructive, immoral war (it’s like the world’s biggest frog and the world’s biggest firecracker!), and to get elected to a second term, none of which would have been possible without 9/11.” (my bold).
Eli, though we disagree about 9/11, I think your post is great, and I’m sorry to offend you for discussing part of what it is about. All of your posts are great, and I always enjoy them.
See ya later.
Some people are saying that the Speaker of the House of Corporate Representatives is a blithering idiot.
eCAHNomics @ 160
Signed, sealed, and, delivered! Mahalo!
Thanks, LS, I appreciate that.
Dover Bitch @ 134
the bridge at midnight trembles.
country doctor rambles.
bankers’ nieces seek perfection,
expecting all the gifts that wise men bring.
the wind howls like a hammer.
the night blows cold and rainy.
my love she’s like some raven,
at my window with a broken wing.
Blub @ 163
I still don’t get that. No explanation does it for me. Why is that man on the loose?
LS @ 167
No LS. Stay. Dream of the future. Monika Goodling slinging fries & all. Richardson back in the UN. Bolton not being able to visit Europe.
Loo Hoo. @ 143
You put them on in the shell live. Coals should be white hot. And put the cover down. Serve with hot sauce and fresh lemon. When they open they’re done only takes a minute or two. Why doesn’t Lahoma speak to you? I would like her to, but she says that’s my job. Rather chauvinistic don’t you think? Lahoma actually responded to a couple of folks the other night. It was a huge conversation. I think she typed ‘thankyou’ to a couple of fdl types. Let me say this, she reads every word you all say. ;0)
I’d like to dream of a future where Sampson and Monika Goodling et al are working at Burger King, & on parole.
Yes! especially that et al guy. I hate him.
Bob Schacht @ 194
I’d love more info & agree 9/11 commission was a coverup for something. If/when we get more info, will be very worthwhile to fine-comb it.
BTW, when are the files on JFK assassination to be released? Oh. Forget I mentioned that.
Blub @ 166
It is not difficult to envision an alternate reality in which Dubya really *was* serious about the things he claims to be serious about, and sent overwhelming force to Tora Bora to wipe out al Qaeda and the Taliban, and then used a massive military buildup to bluff Saddam into letting UN inspectors in to either destroy or verify the absence of any WMDs there.
Neither would have been all that difficult to do, but they might have fucked up the 2004 election for Dubya and the Republicans.
jayt @ 172
and the others
Elliott @ 172
Because he is incredibly valuable to the Republicans. Where would they be without a scary boogeyman?
Blub- What is your definition of a conspriacy theory?
“The senate of the United States shall be composed of two senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each senator shall have one vote.”
US Constitution, Article 1, Section 3, 1st paragraph
“The qualifications proposed for senators, as distinguished from those of representatives, consist in a more advanced age, and a longer period of citizenship. A senator must be thirty years of age at least; as a representative, must be twenty-five. And the former must have been a citizen nine years; as seven years are required for the latter. The propriety of these distinctions is explained by the nature of the senatorial trust; which requiring greater extent of information and stability of character, requires at the same time that the senator should have reached a period of life most likely to supply these advantages; and which participating immediately in transactions with foreign nations, ought to be exercised by none who are not thoroughly weaned from the prepossessions and habits incident to foreign birth and education.” (Emphasis mine)
The Federalist Papers, Number 62 (Madison), 1st paragraph
The senate, with a few exceptions, is a collection of feeble, frightened old men and women. They have become the 21st century equivalent of courtiers in the court of the Sun King, Louis XIV. Their brains have become addled, their flesh and spirit gone soft as the addiction to power has consumed their very soul. The leadership of the majority party shows no leadership, only fear. Fear of what those courtiers closest to the King, and their sycophants, will say about them. The wise old men and women of the senate cringe and cower from not a real, but perceived, threat of harsh words from the greedlings. In making their excuses they whisper that they act for the good of their party and thereby, for the country as well, when in fact they act only for themselves. To linger forever in the soft, safe, pleasurable world provided by the robber barons. In these frightened old men and women I put my faith and trust? I think not.
“Of all human inventions, the excuse is the most worthless.”
Mrs Katherine Cooley, my high school English teacher
eCAHNomics @ 176
‘Magic Bullet’, Grassy Knoll,… ;-)
Elliott @ 178
first, he et al.
then he et the others.
Well blow me up…lovin’ those darkblack graphics…
Frogs-a-goshen! Oooh, money to be made in them thar hedge-funds eh?
Ahh, the heady days of April…
Carlyle Group Plans to Launch Its First Hedge Fund
C’mon in! The frogpond water is f.i.n.e.
…or is it?
Carlyle Postpones $415 Million IPO of Mortgage Fund
What! BusChen unlucky? hmm…maybe…naw…
eCAHNomics @ 176
Bob Schacht @ 194
I’d love more info & agree 9/11 commission was a coverup for something. If/when we get more info, will be very worthwhile to fine-comb it.
BTW, when are the files on JFK assassination to be released? Oh. Forget I mentioned that.
If there’s a heaven, and if I get in, first thing I’m gonna do is go the information booth and get those two questions answered.
I remember that. But she should have her own screen name & not comment masquerading as you. Otherwise the govt won’t be able to google her to track down her immoderate statements. *g*
CTuttle- You’re probably right, Bush and Cheney seem sincere.
yellowdog jim @ 183
*Groan* Now, I know I’m missing Punaise…!!! ;-)
Better to have him on the outside pissing in than on the inside pissing out?
Everythingseemssoneat @ 180
That OBL was somehow a fiction created by the rethugs and that somebody else was somehow behind 9/11.. I just don’t buy that. Shrub’s not the only evil guy out there, and he’s probably not the worst. OBL, running a contry and with an army, would be about as bad as it could get.
jayt @ 182
If there’s a heaven, and if I get in, first thing I’m gonna do is go the information booth and get those two questions answered.
Now you’ve got me thinking, what would be the first two questions I’d ask?
CTuttle @ 188
all groans are accepted as high praise.
(takes a bow)
thank you, thank you …
eCAHNomics @ 186
Ms. Kiddo?
Blub- Ah, the 9/11 touchstone.
Eli @ 179
That might be it, but, less cynically, I just think shrub likes to play games he can win at and has a very short attention span when the going gets rough (unless he’s invested a king’s ransom in American lives and treasure in it, as he has in Iraq). His game is personal power.. not justice for OBL or even to thwart the legitimate threat that OBL and his fellow leaders pose to the world. In my mind, OBL is the bogeyman and a very real one, lurking in the shadows.. one who’s stronger than ever.. and a threat that shrub completely ignores.
mui @ 165
Hey that would be lovely,and since there’s so many of us,we can multi task. This was worth starting a war over to some people,I think it freaking matters,still. It was the trigger that launched all manner of hells. Since no one has answered some pretty basic questions,why is the discussion taboo? If there’s no There there,then why so many loose ends? Let’s clear this stuff up,and then if there were fuck ups,we can remedy that. Can’t remedy any flaws in the system if no one’s even allowed to talk about it for more than a minute. If people are standing in the way of knowledge,it’s kinda hard to believe it was all just a fluke.
Just like the whole of life isn’t our national politics. Political activism is not the only thing one does to be a good citizen. A society’s secrets are kinda like those of an abusive family,when those secrets are so closely guarded,it allows generation after generation of abuse to continue.
mui @ 193
Kiddo’s Better Half?
yellowdog jim @ 183
Hyuuuuck! Is the Cantonese word for disgust.
Now you’ve got me thinking, what would be the first two questions I’d ask?
I’m also interested in why there are hairs growing outta my earlobes, but I guess that one can wait.
Hey, this dude (Dawkin’s description) ain’t gonna answer no Qs:
Elliott @ 172
He is in his multi-tiered fortress. And there are many of them.
CTuttle @ 185
that hurt our feelings didn’t it, yellowdog?
How about the moon landing? Conspiracy or real?
anangryoldbroad @ 196
I can do that. I am of the MTV video game generation. I can listen to music, watch tv, comment and work all at the same time. It’s the only thing that makes me happy.
OKKiddo, can I have one on the rocks with lots of salt? Cuervo or Sousa, doesn’t really matter ;)
How is everyone tonight?
mui @ 204
HeeHee.
smapdi @ 203
It happened on my first husband’s 30th bday. It must be real. We thought it was personally done for us.
eCAHNomics @ 186
I’m ‘working’ on her. But she does not respond to pressure. I say to her, sometimes, that they, you all, would love her. ;0)
mui @ 204
All the proper stimuli…!!! ;-)
I’m watching the HBO special White Light/Black Rain: The Destruction of Hiroshima. What amazes me is that the military guys interviewed have no compassion at all about what they did. They are now old men and they still show a sparkle in theireye that itwas the greatest thing that they had to do. Amazing, really.
Frank33 @ 118
The closest thing to testimonies so far.
FAA/ATCs tapes destroyed. We may never know.
Is this real world or exercise/drill?
0:42 (listen beyond heavy metal if you will)
Bush, Condi et al. “Never Heard of a plan…”
Dick, Rummy (resigned now, btw) and NORAD
ABC News tinfoil free clip @1:50
see also Mineta testimony (resigned now, btw)
*Fighters were scrambled at Langley
*Secreted Cheney asked in Mineta’s presence:
“plane is 10mi out, do the orders still stand?”
VP: Of course, have you heard anything to
the contrary?” what orders?
Blub@190
It’s bigger than Dubya.
eCAHNomics @ 208
Thats a big ring.
jayt says-”I’m also interested in why there are hairs growing outta my earlobes, but I guess that one can wait.”
cuz your nose, your feet and your ears grow as you age………..including the hairs…….
I guess now is not to look at thing a structural (as in cultural/political) or historic contexts. And it would take far to long, but what has happened, and continues to happen can be understood by not fixating on the flashy shiny things the hot spots which have been pointed out, but look at the moments just before they happened. and at what the mood of the country had been in for years. Like any good insurgence the (for want of a better word) neo-cons, had be framing issues in certain ways, they always portrayed them selfs as under dogs and built a following that would accept and listen to anything they said. No reasonable person would suspect that this would cause the world we are now in, but the seeds are there and we now stand on a dark path now we can either continue walking or stop and throw as much light on it and it surrounding area to find a new way.
Wang Dang! It’s wangdangdoodle! Aloha!!!
Significant insight… Eli.
I too believe that BushCo was complicit in 9/11 either for intentional negligence (’destroy whatever Clinton touched’, PNAC, nutcases as they all seem to be) or willful malevolence (expecting lower grade catastrophe). The New Pearl Harbor makes a strong case even if only half the assessments are true.
ccmask @ 210
Be careful. I got objections, a few nights back, for referring the the destruction of Germany that the U.S. caused with firebombing. Seems several here think the German civilians deserved it.
mui @ 198
more high praise.
as far as humor is concerned,
with puns:
Nothing succeeds like failure.
(i must remember, “Hyuuuck!”: thanks.)
How do you spell the sound of Cheney saying what Jon Stewart always says…something like,
Whannn
Whannn
Okay, so I’m lurking. I didn’t say anything “bad”. ;P
BusChen — Making failure “mainstream”…
Why the private equity bubble is bursting
And it’s global…
wangdangdoodle @ 205
Just fine. Commin’ up! ;0)
sumpls @ 216
The Aug. 6th PDB does emphasize the Pearl analogy…!!!
CTuttle @ 215
Whazzup Tuttle!?!
This isn’t the peter or the dilbert principle, tho it looks a lot like it. People develop skills according to their aptitudes and their weaknesses; darwin-like, they develop what they need. Simply put, some develop *actual* skills, like knowing stuff, being effective, problem-solving, improving things, inputting data, whatever. Other have a hard time with those *actual* skills, and aren’t good at them, so they develop manipulating skills. It seems pretty clear that Dubya has overcompensated big time at manipulating skills. Well, really rove and cheney do the heavy lifting but Dubya maneauvers and has the savvy to stay in office at the top of the dirty heap and accumulate power.
It’s a pretty smarmy skill, and is an embarassment to this country. It’s the most ill wind any of us will ever see.
argosfalcon @ 211
I’m all for more light and a new way.
[my bold]
eCAHNomics @ 217
That was a real dirty civilian casualty bully bomb.
CTuttle @ 197
;0)
Hey Okk and Lahoma (the most beautiful name, ever) those oysters and your pool sound so soothing and wonderful.
yellowdog jim @ 218
Remember to pronounce more as if it rhymes with kook, rather than stuck.
neokneme @ 220
You’ll recognize a true margin call crunch when the prices of quality stocks go down a greater percent than junk. The only way to meet a margin call is to sell the good stuff.
I’ve just finished my second beer and that’s my last sentient comment on economics or financial markets tonight.
Hi Lahoma.
wangdangdoodle @ 223
Enjoying some tropical breezes, while here at the Lake!!! Another gorgeous day in Paradise! Speaking of which, I’ve another errand to tend to!!! *g*
Oklahoma kiddo @ 221
Thank you sir! Here’s one for you.
dc @ 224
Yes. What we are seeing is what happens when you have a government that substitutes the manipulation and spinning of problems for actually solving them.
eCAHNomics @ 230
Does this market employ sentience?
G’day Persi! How’s your neck of the ocean? ;-)
G’day Chikka, my neck of the ocean’s a bit wet today, otherwise all is well. How’s things in Paradise?
I’m making this up as I type, but I think one explanation as to why we never seriously went after OBL up to and after Tora Bora is that shrub didn’t want to catch him.. not because he needed a general bogeyman, but, specifically, because a continued phantom AQ threat would allow him to conflate AQ with Iraq, thereby setting the stage for the terr’ist component for Iraqi invasion justification. If OBL, HEZ and other top AQ leaders were confirmed dead or already in shrub’s torture camps, support for Iraq might’ve been much lower. As long as AQ was a shadowy unknown, shrub had a free hand to pretend that they were everywhere.. including in Iraq (remember the Czech spy meeting thing he used at the UN?)
BTW there ARE connections between Bush Sr. and Kennedy assassination…and the mafia. It requires looking for the articles- if interested, google Bush and the mafia.
neokneme @ 235
I was referring to the my comments being sentient, not the market. You may question that too, if you like.
Hey but he still “seems like a nice person to have over for dinner” / “seems like a nice man to have a beer with” / “eats grits” / “says Jeesus a lot”
Those were just some of the stunning reasons given by residents of cerrtain flyover / drive thru states for vating for that no brain yokel from Texas
Speaking of Drudge, he’s got a treasure trove today.
Chimpy is soaring to 34%. Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Also Tony Snow in “emotional interview” about his cancer. Chances are that won’t be called “whoring his illness for Bush’s sake” by any of the talking heads.
Finally, China is threatening to dump their dollar reserves if the US plays hardball on trade issues.
-GSD
Blub @ 237
I’m making this up as I type, but I think one explanation as to why we never seriously went after OBL up to and after Tora Bora is that shrub didn’t want to catch him.. not because he needed a general bogeyman, but, specifically, because a continued phantom AQ threat would allow him to conflate AQ with Iraq, thereby setting the stage for the terr’ist component for Iraqi invasion justification. If OBL, HEZ and other top AQ leaders were confirmed dead or already in shrub’s torture camps, support for Iraq might’ve been much lower. As long as AQ was a shadowy unknown, shrub had a free hand to pretend that they were everywhere.. including in Iraq (remember the Czech spy meeting thing he used at the UN?)
I believe that Dr. Hillhouse more or less agrees with you, with the exception that she posits, in her fictional book, that UBL was actually captured.
Yes, Eli you’re right – it’s not about one person, it’s a whole government hijacked by a cabal. It’s like an infection, a virus that kills ethics and integrity and anything good or constructive, not to mention well-informed, and thrives on corruption, distortion, power, and self-delusion. It’s a collective delusion, like mass hallucination, where they all actually seem to believe in their own rightness.
Not that I have strong feelings about this.
Ooohhhhhh, hope he doesn’t get a nose bleed up there, GSD.
Frank33 @ 130
Boyle: There were four engines and at least three trucks. So we’re heading east on Vesey, we couldn’t see much past Broadway. We couldn’t see Church Street. We couldn’t see what was down there. It was really smoky and dusty.”
“A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.
http://www.firehouse.com/terro…..boyle.html
ccmask @ 210
That was really a demon that was unleashed on the world with Hiroshima at the center. I wonder if FDR lived whether the bomb would have been used. I gathered somewhere that Truman did it too impress the Soviet Union in a negative way.
mui @ 229
cool.
eCAHNomics @ 230
Interesting observation.
Excuse me.
Bush and cronies are very competent. It took them less than 8 years and one staged attack to wipe out the Constitution. And we’re just gonna sit here and Pi** and moan about it. We deserve what we have, a police state. And it’s gonna get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better. Why not blame the people who could have stopped it, and didn’t. Congress. Reid and Pelosi are traitors. They just handed it to them. Don’t vote for the Dems and don’t give to em. They’re just stealing your money. Oh, I forgot. What elections. Dems are in bed with the other side. What do you mean, so the Rethugs will win? They won. It made not difference that the Dems had the majority. We have no first, fourth, or fifth amendment. We HAVE NO CONSTITUTION. And it doesn’t matter whose in power now. Even if Sister Frigidare (excuse me, Hillary) wins. Can you imagine what she’ll do with the power that King George has secured to the monarchy. The Dems are gutless and traitors to their oath and the Constitution, and all the people on that long black wall, and all the people in world war II and all the kids dying in Iraq are dying for NOTHING. eFFING Nothing!
Hope everyone is proud. Took exactly 231 years to destroy the US, but Bush did it.
dc @ 242
I wonder how far away we are from some sort of point of no return. Already it seems like the pendulum swings a lot farther and longer to the right than to the left, for the past 60 years or so now.
Good evening all, going up to read all the comments….
jayt @ 242
sorry, who’s that?
The best conspiracy theory I ever heard was how the US government was taken over by a wing of the Al Capone mob. It was complete with quoted conversations about what went down.
This was shared with me on July 4th this year while I was advertising for impeachment with a 3ft vertical sign by Independence Hall.
It is so sad mui. These poor people. The bomb created winds of 1000 MPH and it was 9000 degrees. Just pulverized everything…
LS @ 228
thankyou. L.
there ought to be the
Abu Gonzo-ales Principle:
your buddy appoints you to every public service job you’ve ever had;
and you cover his ass for all the crimes he commits.
Dr. RJ Hillhouse.
Daily SShow is on and it’s NEW!
I love oysters. Right before Katrina, I went to New Orleans at a place that only served oysters. I think it was called Oscars?
Im glad its a new Daily Show.
Loo Hoo. @ 231
hello. L.
The last pictures I saw of all these clowns, Deadeye Dick, Chimpy and Gonzhole and they all looked pretty peaked.
Gonzales is the weak link. He’s gonna go Bud McFarlane one of these days. In my opinion.
-GSD
yellowdog jim @ 256
So be it! The Albert Principle is born tonight, here on this blog. Hi, Jim!
wangdangdoodle @ 263
Hi, WangDang!
Jon Stewart is skewering Drop & Give me $20 Congressman Allen.
Blub @ 252
Dr. R.J. Hillhouse
Dr. Hillhouse has run Cuban rum between East and West Berlin, smuggled jewels from the Soviet Union and slipped through some of the world’s tightest borders. From Uzbekistan to Romania, she’s been followed, held at gunpoint and interrogated. Foreign governments and others have pitched her for recruitment as a spy. (They failed.)
A former professor and Fulbright fellow, Dr. Hillhouse earned her Ph.D. in political science at the University of Michigan. Her next novel, OUTSOURCED (Forge Books, June 12) is about the turf wars between the Pentagon and the CIA and the privatization of national security.
http://www.thespywhobilledme.com/
great book, btw
I wonder how far away we are from some sort of point of no return. Already it seems like the pendulum swings a lot farther and longer to the right than to the left, for the past 60 years or so now.
I wonder too. It’s not like the Dems are the white knights, either, obviously. The whole apparatus and government has shifted to a polarized media game, rather than any effective problem-solving. Spinning and manipulation are now more dominant than ever, and it’s foolish to think the Dems will prove better stewards of power or the constitution.
Depressing when you becomg realistic.
Important note below from TPM on violence in Iraq. I wonder how we would evaluate the success of the “groundog day” series of repeated surges and new courses in Iraq if we could see a month by month graph of total Coalition military and contractor deaths and casualties. I know some of the contractors were until recently uncontrolled special ops types and who knows what they were doing, or why or the relative hazards of their work.
But most of them are just doing guard duty and logistics and supply, pretty much the same as most of the troops. Think about it -it amounts to approx a 1/3 increase over the currently reported casualty numuber.
—
The Contractors
08.07.07 — 10:22PMBy Josh Marshall
I think we all know as a general matter that there are a lot of ‘contractors’ in Iraq and that quite a few of them have gotten killed. But I’m not sure I’ve ever seen actual numbers.
Here are some numbers.
According to this article in the Times, the US military estimates there are 125,000 in country. In other words, there are almost as many there as US military personnel, who I think now number around 160,000, post surge.
And 1001 of them had been killed as of the end of June.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/016327.php
eCAHNomics @ 176
I guess this must be snark, because you’re dismissively ignoring my reference to David Ray Griffin’s books, as if they are “no info”. His books are heavily footnoted with technical reports.
I don’t know if the 9/11 Commission is covering up anything or not. But they did as much as they did, mainly because the 9/11 families pushed them. And they specifically avoided certain subjects. All that is well known. We need more “pushers” to get more answers.
Bob in HI
As far as tequila goes, it’s 100% blue agave or nothing for me.
Stewart has this banner: CLUSTERF@#K TO THE WHITE HOUSE
Now talking about YearlyKos….
eCAHNomics @ 36
Remember the pipeline? The one the cons said didn’t exist? Well, they’ve been trying to get this thing done since the mid 90’s and it is being built.
ccmask @ 271
with video from yk2 too!
cynic @ 249
I can’t think all is lost. This country has had some pretty dark times. I remember a civil rights veteran (I assume, or he said so) on the death of Coretta Scott King commented here and talked about how the Civil Rights era felt like fighting against pure evil everywhere, but keep on fighting. It touched me. Most of us don’t even have a shade of the experience that some of these men and women had. I almost feel like it’s a sin against the Civil Rights era folks not to keep up hope or keep fighting.
RonD @ 257
Ah. Thanks. I actually don’t think that such a tactic would’ve much of a conspiracy at all (not the capturing OBL and hiding him part, just the not bothering to catch him part).. all shrub had to do is move around resources and fail to capitalize on Tora Bora. It’s really a lot less serious of an accusation than some of the other things he’s done, like lie his way into war, out a CIA operative, run secret prisons and make American citizens disappear for years. After all, around ‘03, shrub himself told us that OBL isn’t all that important.. that he doesn’t bother think about him anymore.
Shrub isn’t about making us safter or the world a better place. His only source of motivation is his Macchiavellian preoccupation with the accumulation of personal power for power’s sake, and he needed a ground war to become the Prince.
A.Citizen @ 72
*DING!*
Gold Star.
@267 We’ve crossed the line. We live in a police state. Talk to your Congresscritter, I don’t mean write or call. Go talk to them. Tell em they’re done. This should be everyone. Tell em they betrayed us, and they’re done. No money, no vote. We coulda done better with trained monkeys. Give us back the constitution, repeal the PATRIOT act, and the Military Commissions act, and this latest FISA amendment, and prosecute the law-breakers, and then MAYBE we’ll thing about giving you money and voting for you MAYBE. Otherwise, go back to your 300,000 a year law firm or whatever it is to make you hate the rest of us, and shut the F up. We don’t need you
Owlbear1 @44, No pictures? WTC 7 had many valuable law enforcement records, NSA CIA etc. It was abandoned before the WTC 2 fell. If 20 floors had been taken out of 47 story building there should be pictures. Some unnamed person must have had ESP to warn that WTC 7 would collapse.
Late Night, come on up!
A short-notice repeat from the “Again?” thread for any Live Free or Die patriots who can make it (if no one else has yet copied this forward):
Pass it on.
TRex is in the house!
Upstairs, you know?
TRex up.
Thanks, Eli.
Oh darn. ET came on and I must’ve looked up at the last moment when they were covering (fatuous voice) which stars are giving money to which candidates. Gwyneth Paltrow, Hugh hefner (using his two bunnies as crutches) &etc.
CTuttle @ 209
Yikes. Just the thought of all that going on at once makes this ADHD person break out in a cold sweat!
Everything BushCo does is political.
They politicized 9/11.
They politicized the executive branch, with the politicization of the Justice Department being just one example of their gross, un-American partisanship.
And we know what the goal of BushCo is…to win elections in any way possible, legal or illegal.
Thus, the following “dots”:
BushCo pays Halliburton to build $385 million worth of detention centers by the end of 2007 (the year before a major presidential election), to hold illegal immigrants…”and for other purposes.”
BushCo pressures Congress into giving Alberto Gonzales unchecked and unlimited spying authority, with him granted the ability to completely bypass the legal controls of FISA
BushCo wants a taxpayer-funded citizen snitch program, similar to what the Stasi had in Communist East Germany, with citizens spying on and turning in other citizens.
And we’re to believe that these are non-political, non-partisan in intent?
My theory is that the “culture of corruption” Republicans are getting ready to take “caging” of Democrats to the next level…literally spying on, charging and convicting Democrats, and locking them away.
Hmmmm, don’t “convicts” lose their right to vote?
And to think that no one will be the wiser. With no habeas corpus protection, Democratic voters will just start disappearing from the voter rolls as well as their homes.
Gonzales’ secret spying program. BushCo’s secret snitch program, with only “loyal Bushie” Republican snitches allowed to join. Secret “detention centers” around the country. Secret courts with secret testimony regarding secret evidence from secret witnesses and other secret sources.
Hey, the “national security” trump card can be played over and over again, so no Democratic defendant will have any recourse, especially with BushCo having packed the federal judiciary with so many “loyal Bushie” judges.
Hey, call me paranoid, but I wouldn’t put anything past the most corrupt and lying administration in American history.
TexBetsy @ 23
TexBetsy…have to say that I don’t think that the FBI ever said any such thing. Check the source of this.
It doesn’t help the reliability of the movement to put out such stuff that is so easily refuted.
owlbear1 @ 61
Look into the effect that having tornado force compression would have on adjacent understories…when the substructures no longer provide adequate foundational support for the surrounding structures. The WTC complex really wasn’t “several buildings” at all. It was a single building with several towers…two of them massive.
eCAHNomics @ 36
Mebe it had something to do with the Taliban not playing ball with the proposed Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline. Messing with 3-5 trillion dollars worth of natural gas and oil from the Caspian Sea? Hmmm, sounds like somebody has got to die………
Eli @ 179
And remember it was Fitz who issued the sealed conspiracy indictment against OBL in relation to the two East African Embassy attacks.
As some more reasoned heads have argued…you only have to leave the window open if you want the rain to flood the kitchen. There is a lot of strong evidence that Bush, Condi, Tenet, Coford Black, Cheney, etc. knew very well that there was going to be a terrorist attack “on the US using hijacked aircraft as bombs”. Stuff like the Black/Tenet briefing of Condy in July 2001 where Cofer Black said such an attack was “imminent” and a “10 out of 10″. And Condy ordered all those Spada missile batteries around the Genoa G-8 Conference…she and Bush even stayed on the USS Enterprise carrier with jets on the deck on 24 hour alert. Why? Well, even before the July 2001 conference the Italian, British, Russian and other security agencies said to the media…”the US thinks al Qaeda is going to crash a hijacked jet into the site”.
So they knew something was going to happen against a primary US target…and the WTC (along with the Pentagon, WH and Congress) was certainly in the Top-10 of those targets.
And guess what was supposed to happen in Lower Manhatten on September 12th? That was when the Embassy bombers were going to finally be sentenced for their part in the al Qaeda attacks. Of course, that hearing was suspended after 9/11!
So there is very good evidence of INTENTIONAL neglect…to well past the point of criminal negligence. But like others I don’t think there was any thought that this would be a “trifecta”. Or successful on the scale it was…they likely recalled that B-52 crashing into the Empire State building.
But anyone who actually bothers to read the Material Science literature on what happened when the jets crashed into WTC 1 and 2 will find that a) you don’t have to melt the stell structure to cause collapse (you simply need to reach much lower bending force temperatures); and b) the WTC complex was built under the principles of a flying buttress, with the 7 sub-story of all the “buildings” interconnected and supporting the foundation of the others.
And imagine the incredible unlikelihood of the hijackers crashing into the buildings precisely at the floor where the “conspiracy” had planted their thermite (yes the videos of the collapse show that this is where the collapse initiated in WTC 1 and 2…not at the base as at WTC 7)…and none of the jet fuel managed to ignite the highly flammable thermite charges????
Oh yeah…robot controlled planes! There really were no hijackers (and the passengers were simply placed under some witness-protection program down on a ranch in Paraguay). But if these were robots, why not have a plane hit WTC 7 if that was their “real target”? Robots could do THAT! Then there wouldn’t be all the mess of explaining it’s collapse (using thermite, of course).
And the “conspiracy” just happened to fail to time their explosives to when the planes would strike? Maybe they failed to set their watches to DST or something? Or couldn’t afford the cost of a cell-phone detonator? Oh…they didn’t “want” a lot of casualties…give a hour to evacuate! But then why not attack at NIGHT…or just before the workday?
I wish the “conspiracy theorists”out there would apply the same critical thinking to the “facts” that they are ladled out and then they might actually get at what is the REAL ISSUE.
I wouldn’t be surprised if 90% of the 9/11 “doubter” material is actually spurious information promulgated to discredit those that swallow it. Seems I recall a current Presidential Political Aide who is well-known for doing just THAT
pow wow @ 280
Anyone familiar with these blogs?
http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/
http://www.bluehampshire.com
Seems they are progressive and would be good to get informed people out to give Nancy a little heat about taking the CONSTITUTION off the table by her little legislative maneouvres.
eCAHNomics @ 36
I watched John Pilger on Democracy Now but I don’t remember this bit but you may be right in which case I’m at a loss to make sense of it unless he meant Iraq.
BTW Pilger is an expatriate Aussie but Australia proved to be too conservative and too small for him and became an expatriate in the 1970s I think. He is a prolific writer and documentary film maker and has developed a committed following over the last 50 years, on a par with Chomsky although not as an academic and not so internationally well known. He still does occassional pieces for Australian TV – usually SBS, sometimes ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation).
I think Hugh is right in his observation that Bush Jnr didn’t know where on the map Afghanistan was in 2001. Watching him on TV with Karzai, I wasn’t sure what to make of it all. After contradicting his guest re Iran’s role in the region, he went on to pontificate how Ahmadinejad is isolating Iran before asserting US policy to isolate Iran.
Thinking of frogs and firecrackers, how come the Dems never made much of this in 2004? In any other country this would have been a political death knell unless the US electorate prefers to elect psychopaths as their leaders.
LS @ 117:
There’s no oil in Afghanistan, lots and lots of poppies though.
GSD @241:
China does not want to revalue the yuan any faster than they are now – about 9% in the past 18 months.
This will hurt China too as a lower US$ simply bankrupts their FE reserves. But that’s China’s way to say, well, we can’t entirely stop you from hurting us economically but we’ll give as good as we get if not better.
Frank33 @ 278
Your “Undamaged” Tower 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afb7eUHr64U
anangryoldbroad @ 96
Boy, that was my reaction exactly!!! I couldn’t watch Matthews.
I did think, however, the Keith was a great moderator — except for his insistence of starting with Richardson every time & working his way down the line. Start at the other end occasionally.
His collapsed poll ratings are not a big issue to him, either, because his constituency has never been the American pubic at large. His real constituencies, the energy companies, the HMO’s, and the Beltway parasites sucking at the hog trough in Iraq, …… are all doing well by him.