This new video by Ryan Davis cracks me up, but Pach doesn't think it's funny and finds it kind of offensive. What follows is a back and forth Siskel and Ebert style discussion of the clip's merits and drawbacks by your favorite 60ft. Theropod and 16th Century Inca General:
TRex: Okay, I'll go first. I think that this clip is hilarious, although I understand that some people might find it offensive. To me, it's a bunch of gay guys having some fun, whereas if the film had been made by, say, Jimmy Kimmel and Adam Carolla, I would find it offensive.
Of course, I've run aground in the past on the fact that my sense of humor extends to things that some people may find off-limits.
Pach?
Pachacutec: I can see how it works on a number of levels. At the same time, the camp here is a little minstrel-like. I mean, five domestic partners? Talk about playing to stereotype. I think you can call out Rudy and do it playfully without reifying the James Dobson's talking points.
TRex: But that's what I think gives the clip its punch. It's speaking directly to those people's fears and that's what makes it such a devastatingly effective political weapon against Giuliani. I know that the people who made it don't think that this is the way all gay people are, and I'm not expecting those people to carry my message. I can carry my own message about what we're like. Is this more offensive than Scott Thompson from Kids in the Hall playing "Buddy Cole"? Aren't we grown up enough to handle this kind of humor without taking it quite so personally?
Pachacutec: Well, let's wait to see how effective it is. It certainly has potential and shows creativity. I merely contend that it could have dramatized the core point (Rudy loves teh gay) without propelling anti-gay propaganda in derivative form. It certainly could have been done. You could write that script, and I could too, though to the producers' credit, they did something and we didn't. The nuance that the implicit slander is meta-ironic will be lost on 99% of the people who see this. Messages matter.
TRex: I think you're making the same mistake that the Dixie Chicks' publicist made when they were shooting that controversial magazine cover. "I think you're over-estimating the intelligence of the American public," was her take.
I think you're under-estimating people's capacity to take in the irony of it. We live in a world full of Daily Show Democrats now. Politics is dumb, plodding, and boring. I kind of thought our job as bloggers and new media advocates was to shake things up. Don't be such a pearl-clutching old lady. God.
Pach: I didn't say it wasn't funny. To me, it's a great idea imperfectly executed. And those ain't my pearls I'm grabbin', here, sport!
TRex: Groan. I am rolling my eyes at you. So, how do you think this ad could have been done less offensively?
Pach: Off the top of my head, I might have actually written and delivered unironic text from a gay "thank you" perspective with serial drag queens dressed the way Rudy was in his most famous drag appearance, with the last bit referencing Rudy's fabu outfit with a segue to him calling Donald Trump a "naughty, naughty boy," or whatever he did in that skit. That, to me, would be the money shot, so to speak.
TRex: I guess I can see how that would be funny, but I don't think it would be as brutally funny and effective as the ad the way it is. A lot of noise has been made over Ghouliani's drag deal, but to me, it's kind of played out. Even The Politico has run the Rudy-in-drag pictures by now, haven't they?
I think drag queens have become Disneyfied in this country. We see them as sort of sexless moppets like in "To Wong Fu, Thanks for Everything" or your average Hasty Pudding roast. I think Davis's ad is a lot more fun and potentially explosive, and its unwillingness to play to inoffensiveness is what makes it so great.
I was talking with Chicago Dyke over the weekend about the portrayal of GLBT people in the media and how if we don't own our own identity, even if it's to make fun of ourselves, then someone else will. The "five domestic partners" line is the funniest one in the whole clip, but that's the one that the most people will object to, of course.
I just get so sick of the typical liberal hand-wringing. Who are we to tell Ryan Davis what he can or can't say in his film? If you disagree with the portrayal, then make your own commercial.
That's kind of been my whole approach to blogging. People like Andrew Sullivan and Michelangelo Signorile weren't cutting it for me. I decided not to count on them to get my message out there (since that isn't their job) and create my own platform. I don't tell other people what to blog about or how to do it, and I would ask the same from them.
Okay, last word goes to you, Pach.
Pach: Well, I never said he should do it my way. Heh. I just responded when you asked what I thought. I guess I'm pretty much a simpleton on this: it's funny, but could be funnier, cleaner, so as to hit a broader audience. In a message like this, you want the focus to be on your target, in this case, Rudy, and you want it to go viral with a lot of gay online support. Why make gay folks think twice about doing that? Is the point to have an impact or to make some other kind of statement about the boundaries of comedy? I guess it's a matter of how broad a reach you want.
Thanks for hosting this little chat! Now I have to put away my pearl necklace.
TRex: Now we turn it over to you guys in the comments. What do you think? Funny or freakin' awful?
You be the judge.
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Tequila!
zed ish?
wang wins!!
you get to go downstairs and tell the rest of the kids.
zedlet
boing - forward one and a half somersaults with three and a half twists, in the free position - wee bit of splash from slight under-rotation resulting a slightly less than verticle entry
g’evening everyone
boing - forward one and a half somersaults with three and a half twists, in the free position - wee bit of splash from slight under-rotation resulting a slightly less than verticle entry
g’evening everyone
Who put the bom in Obama?
Stewart.
Evenin’ TRex. On to read and let downstairs know you’re up.
Evening dear friends. Back in Texas in my own home. :)
I think it’s funny. But I’m tacky.
whoa! new thread..hiyas…
HILARIOUS!!!
oooh. twin dives! excellent suzanne.
Dude!
TexBetsy @ 8
Yippee Tie One On!!! Welcome back!
synchronized diving with herself tonight:
Suzanne!
it was beautiful!!
Is this too blog for this gay?
;>)
yellowdog jim @ 3
I did, but I forgot to do the Hinky Linky :)
Sorry, I’m on a dialup, so I’m not well equipped to offer any feedback on this. If it helps you, TRex, I can at least mince when I say that.
Hey, can a mod or admin get backstage and figure out why my paragraphs all end up with either an acre of space between them or not separated at all? It’s driving me batshit.
crap - double commenting again - hopefully i cleared the problem without having to reboot my browser (fingers and toes crossed)
TRex @ 19
They look fine to me.
trex, got the site admin looking at it now
I like the video. Why not?
I took it more seriously than funny.
I love it. It’s true and meaningful.
If it matters, I’m stright.
I don’t think this is an appropriate topic for this blog.
TexBetsy @ 23
Well, obviously some people would have it that it perpetuates ugly stereotypes. If the video was made by straight people, I would have to agree, since that is a form of minstrelsy, straight people mocking gays just like white people mocked black people in the original minstrel shows, but gays mocking themselves, I don’t have a problem with.
TeddySanFran @ 25
he-he…! you crack me up, TSF…
TeddySanFran @ 25
Oh, shut up and kiss me, you fool.
hmmm, i have to say that i think it is effective exactly because of the over-the-top performances. the fem screamer is the far rights biggest nightmare (and secret dirty step-child) and giving them a bitch-slap upside the head with it does more to drive home the fact that rudy is an opportunistic hoore than something measured and nice.
TRex @ 28
long pause on the thread while everyone watches…
Evening all. A little cooler and less smoky today here in western Montana, but I wouldnt make any vacation plans for the area (including Glacier) for the next month or so.
TRex @ 28
TRex, I think he’s spoken for.
Hey Betsy, I saw your post last night on John Gibson’s obnoxious remarks about Edward’s “whorin’ his wife’s cancer”. Pissed me off so much, I tracked down his sponsor and sent them a link and quote from the MediaMatters story. I politely asked them to reconsider sponsoring him. Got a pretty positive response from them.
Then I sent the link and a short quote to The American Cancer Society. Got a positive response from them, too.
Suzanne @ 5
Bon Soir, Ma Cheri!
I have to say, I’m underwhelmed.
I thought it was very wry, and I loved the morning in america background music.
DrDick @ 31
Well, I wasn’t planning to make it out there any time soon, anyway. Hope you don’t end up evacuating before the next couple of months are over with.
TeddySanFran @ 25
HA! I think it would make a great campaign ad.
:)
I had to watch it a couple of times… at first (not knowing it was done by teh gays), I was rather taken aback… the 2nd time around I saw the wicked humor of it…
so, I don’t know how it would play in Peoria…
Laura Doty @ 36
It sounded like “The West Wing” to me. ;)
funny! would have been funier though with some Cher in the background.
TRex, I’ve got to side with ya! It was hilarious, snarkilious!!!
wangdangdoodle @ 33
Excellent! All about taking action.
sangemon @ 40
Over my head. The only television program I’ve watched in 15 years is the Wire–and that on DVD.
wangdangdoodle @ 38
Against Ghouliani!!! *g*
Anyone near Concord, NH tomorrow, and willing to help out your with-it new Congressman Hodes a little in return for a possible chance to buttonhole Nancy Pelosi about FISA?
[Another dial-up excuse here for no-can-do on video feedback.]
I enjoyed the video, though I agree with Pach that it does play to a lot of negative stereotypes (with the potential to come back and bite you) and could have been punchier. Certainly has potential to short sheet Ghouliani’s campaign a bit. ;-)
e.c. @ 29
You are right..subtle wouldn’t work with the 28%ers..I think it is an effective guided missile at Rudy.
Hi all. Guessing game time.
Last night I wrote this:
Med supply places were all a bust. Any ideas how I REALLY got it fixed?
TexBetsy @ 49
gas station or tire shop - either auto or bicycle?
I like it! The point of this is to undercut conservative support for Rudy, right? So the mention of 5 domestic partners plays directly into those fears. Normal people see it’s completely over the top, but those silly rightwingers might freak a little. And isn’t that the goal?
I say Winner!!
I know! I know! (But I read up in Facebook on you signed up firepups!
TexBetsy @ 49
Bicycle shop?
TRex, can you post a linky to the vid?
TexBetsy @ 32
ah, the lady from Texas has some things to learn about our people, methinks.
wangdangdoodle @ 33
This is how it’s done. Great work!
TeddySanFran @ 55
C’mon Teddy be gentle…!!! ;-)
TeddySanFran @ 55
Now THAT’s a stereotype! ;~
wangdangdoodle @ 33
I think there are a few of us who would like to join you in that effort. Can we have the contact information for the sponsor and the ACA?
OK, where were all the brilliant people last night????
Made calls for 2 hrs this morning, and then my son called and I told him what was going on. Mr. Brilliant 13 yr old said, “Mom, a tire is a tire. Just go to the bike shop.”
So I did. Nice place in Park Ridge IL on the way to the airport.
TexBetsy @ 60
*DING!*
EvilDrPuma @ 37
No danger of that (at least I hope not - would be approaching Armageddon if I did). As I have said before, I live in the center of the second largest city in Montana (which ain’t saying much since the whole state has less than a million people) and the valley where we are located is mostly grasslands. I may asphyxiate from the smoke if they get any closer or if we get some fires to the west (which is currently clear and allows for a little clearing).
TeddySanFran @ 25
You said it, Teddy.
TeddySanFran @ 25
Camper than a row of lavender tents…Rudy’s more of a ‘leather and leashed’ kind of player, IMO.
;>)
TeddySanFran @ 55
Your people are just doing what everyone else’s people want to do. :)
I may need some new people.
Jane Hamsher @ 63
Isn’t this late for you to be up, Jane?
TexBetsy @ 12
Love your dives, Suzanne, but that second one was a little close to the edge of the pool!
Be careful.
Teddy@55
Women are different, Teddy dear. In a woman’s world, you kiss someone’s sweetie, the best you can hope for is a bust in the chops. Worst you can fear is that a woman is out to get you. *g*
sangemon @ 58
True, I have known several monogamous gay couples over the years.
DrDick @ 62
Keeping our fingers crossed for you, anyway. It’s irritating enough to me when I can smell cigarette smoke wafting up from the apartment below–I’d hate to be in your shoes.
We seem to be getting a bit of a thunderstorm here. I just hope it becomes a good hard rain that takes some of that miserable humidity out of the air….
TexBetsy @ 43
Looks like I could use some firedogpower backup, my lone email doesn’t seem to have convinced them to pull their money.
Here’s the story at MediaMatters.
Here’s the offending radio host’s website.
And here’s the email feedback page for his sponser, ProFlowers.
Maybe if they heard from a few more people?
(I probably triggered the mod trap with 3 links and a quote this comment!)
monogamy is overrated
Is that kid 18?
A more appropriate topic?
OT..
China threatens ‘nuclear option’ of dollar sales
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 1:48am BST 08/08/2007
The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.
www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.....ina107a.xm
Very, very funny, but the “5 gay partners” line shoots the whole concept in the foot. It actually could have been effective, and possibly even used on the idiot box, without that line.
(Just a drive-by on my way to bed…)
oddmommy @ 73
Yesterday was GoodMrsPuma’s and my thirteenth wedding anniversary. I must beg to differ.
oddmommy @ 73
I personally am in favor of Big Love.
Jane Hamsher @ 63
Why not? We’re all mature adults here(mostly)! Relatively, well-adjusted individuals…!!! 8-)
marymccurnin @ 65
And a lot secretly do. Haven’t really seen a lot of difference between the two groups (of men that is) over the years.
Lots of Big Love.
Steve-AR @ 75
Oy!
Here we go…
Colbert is smoking tonight. Did a fabulous comparison bet. YK2 & Hitler. Now on to FISA.
I think it’s funny, but it’s so true that I almost think it is redundant as satire.
I don’t think I have ever heard the gay voice from you two writers quite as clearly as this. What a laugh. Shit! you two should write a screenplay. But hey, I’m in Redneckistan and everyone I know sees Julliani as a perfect foil.
Wait, wait, wait….who says I’m well adjusted? I resemble that.
Congrats Doc & Ms Puma
Hmm .. I thought it was a great way to break through the clutter and get the message across that Rudy is oh so gay friendly. ;-)
Is it politically correct? I don’t know and don’t really care. As long as it’s gay people talking about a topic that directly affects them, I think it’s clever and funny. The best line is about the five domestic partners.
Humor goes a long way in getting and keeping the average voter’s attention.
oddmommy @ 73
I rather enjoy it, working on 17 yrs already!!! :P
Kuchinich is electable!
There’s my 2cents for the night!
sometimes you just have to shout “FIRE” to get someones attention (or in this case “FLAMER”). having all the reasoned and measured conversations about the fact that mayor gulliani has previously demonstrated his support of the glbt community and thier civil rights blah blah blah isn’t really as direct as hollerin’ RUDY LOVES FAGS! if you think about it, which approach would more likely cause the fundies to turn on him?
TexBetsy @ 87
Thanks! We agreed yesterday that we’re pretty happy with each other. We just want the rest of the world to fuck off. :-P
TRex @ 59
And voila! The American Cancer Society contact page.
Best Colbert ever, so far tonight.
wangdang, you are awesome…
(making a list, checking it twice, for action in the morning)
EvilDrPuma @ 77
The bride and I are going for 28 next year (with a couple of years off for bad behavior in the early 90’s).
EvilDrPuma @ 92
Would be nice…!!! ;-)
The China announcement doesn’t surprise me. Kinda been expecting it actually. They have much more power over us than anyone wants to admit.
TheOtherWA @ 98
Seems they are more powerful than us.
eCAHNomics @ 67
Yes. I’m sure the phone calls will start any minute, but sometimes I feel like a little kid sneaking down to sit on the stairs in the dark and watch TV from the hallway. I know I should go to bed but something might happen, you know?
sangemon @ 96
Dang, you can do that… Hmmm…!!! ;-)
With only 48 seconds to get the message across I think you have to use stereotypes. If they used non-stereotypical gays, like footballers or truck-drivers, it would lose its edge and be confusing, especially for da base who aren’t exactly cognitively gifted.