Hear that sound? It’s the squealing and squeaking of DC lobbyists seeing their influence curtailed:
H. Stewart Van Scoyoc, founder of one of the biggest lobbying firms in Washington, spent an anxious morning with his lawyer last week assessing the far-reaching ethics and lobbying rules Congress had passed the day before.
The first worry was what lobbyists are calling the new “temptation rules.” Not only do they bar lawmakers and aides from accepting any gifts, meals or trips from lobbyists, they also impose penalties up to $200,000 and five years in prison on any lobbyist who provides such freebies.
And worse still for Mr. Van Scoyoc, under the new law he is required to certify each quarter that none of the 50 lobbyists in his firm bought so much as a burger or cigar for someone on a lawmaker’s staff…
The new law has quickly sent a ripple of fear through K Street. It comes amid signs that federal prosecutors are taking a newly aggressive approach to corruption cases — including treating campaign contributions as potential bribes.
But it gets even better:
By requiring them to certify the good behavior of their employees, the law puts lobbyists at new legal risk and could subject them to new pressure from prosecutors. And new centralized disclosures of lobbyists’ campaign contributions, fund-raising activities and even their achievements — in the form of Congressional earmarks in spending bills — make it only easier for federal investigators to paint unflattering portraits of lobbyists’ influence.
And better still:
One lobbyist, who would speak only anonymously to avoid attracting the attention of prosecutors or rivals, said he had started sending himself date-stamped e-mail to create a record of every phone conversation he had with a lawmaker. Then he stopped making campaign contributions.
Another lobbyist recently scaled back the menu at a breakfast briefing for lawmakers, offering bagels and cream cheese instead of ham and eggs. The rules permit lobbyists to provide refreshment of “only nominal value.” The House ethics committee guidelines suggest “light appetizers and drinks, or soda and cookies,” a standard that is known as “the toothpick test.”
The firm also advised a client distributing flashlights on Capitol Hill — to promote government openness — to make sure not only that they cost less than $10 each but also that they looked cheap, to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
And the “staff briefing” — in which a lobbyist enticed Congressional staff members to hear a talk about some dry legislative concern by offering pizza — has become extinct. No one will come without the free food.
This is a good start on the supply end of the money chain that corrupts our politics. Now it’s time to work on the demand end — by making money less necessary to win elections.



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the ZED!
PW!
we didn’t pay too much for those rubber stamps, did we?
with all the food offered, it makes you wonder how it is the recipients aren’t having trouble with their waistlines…
I really love this ! I guess the critters will have to hang out at home due to no large parties and supplicants fawning all over them and handing out money by the bushel.
OldCoastie @ 4
You mean like Denny Hastert?
I still like my friend’s campaign finance tules:
dakine01 @ 6
perhaps waistline is a good way to measure lobbiest influence?
now, if we could just get a flat income tax…
we could be shut of my other pet peeve parasite, the tax attorney (apologies to any present)
Anything that makes the people on K street nervous makes me happy!
Nice post, PW, but rest assured, the little piggies will just find new and improved ways to get around the law.
Yes, the new law is good news, but I’m an incurable cynic.
P J Evans @ 7
NPR ran a story on this. The gist of it was that this bill is nearly ineffectual. They reported that if a congresscritter is throwing the first pitch at a ball game, then the lobbyist can provide tickets for him and his friends and family.
Will this leg. help? According to the report on NPR, it is full of huge loopholes.
Why did NPR slant the story like that?
Now this I love. Seeing lobbyists have to tap dance and squirm. YES! hahahahahaha.
On the flip side though,it’s a damned shame that people even have to be told this in the first place.
Integrity: It’s what you do(or don’t do) when no one’s looking.
That edit didnt work-#12- middle part is response….
An NPR business show had disturbing news on this bill. If I remember correctly, lobbyists can buy airfares and meals if there is a certain type of activity on the trip. If the legislator makes a stop at a state fair for an event, throws out a pitch at the game, or makes other public appearance, then purchases are OK.
Check me on this, but it sounded like a huge loophole.
Before anyone annoints Barack the “squeeky clean one” those of us from Illinois know better. We have suffered under the highest electric rates in the country and Exelon is his biggest single donor.
is a Scott Simon piece on Weekend Edition –
Ken Silverstein is interviewed about Obama’s funding — including EXELON (biggest nuke outfit in the USA) is the 4th largest donor — and has been an Obama backer for a long time…
Paraphrasing Silverstein: “in the case of Exelon…Obama voted against an amendment that would have killed loan guarentees to for nuclear construction…and Obama says we should not take nuclear off the table..
or
arack, for the second quarter
in a row, has surpassed the fundraising prowess of Hillary Clinton.
To be sure small online donations have propelled the young senator
to the top, but so too have his connections to big industry.
The Obama campaign, as of late March 2007, has accepted $159,800
from executives and employees of Exelon, the nation’s largest
nuclear power plant operator.
The Illinois-based company
also helped Obama’s 2004 senatorial campaign. As Ken Silverstein
reported in the November 2006 issue of Harper’s, “[Exelon]
is Obama’s fourth largest patron, having donated a total of $74,350
to his campaigns. During debate on the 2005 energy bill, Obama
helped to vote down an amendment that would have killed vast
loan guarantees for power-plant operators to develop new energy
projects the public will not only pay millions of dollars in
loan costs but will risk losing billions of dollars if the companies
default.”
“Senator Obama has all
the necessary leadership skills required to be president,” says
Frank M. Clark, chairman of Exelon’s Commonwealth Edison utility.
These gracious accolades come
http://www.nowpublic.com/barac….._ambitions
Ron Paul odds for Commander-in-Chief slashed to 8 to 1 in latest sportsbook betting.
That’s down from 200 to 1 a couple of months ago.
Momentum, how sweet it is.
I hold out little hope that any “lobying reform” legislation will be beneficial to the the average citizen. Washington is populated with clever lawyers who will find the loopholes and the process will quickly be currupted again. Just give it time.
I sometimes think that, absent public financing of elections, the best appraoach would be to eliminate all restrictions on contributions, but pass legislation that requires timely, full, and public disclosure of all contributions to political candidates as well as the identity of the contributors.
Lobby bribery is not party specific. We in this house favor public financing of campaigns. On the issue of retail politics, Dodd and Biden have it right.
Well, real reform is targeting the pigs that have been overfeeding at the trough and supporting candidates to oppose them. There are too many people entrenched in the system who have never faced anything resembling a viable challenger. I live in a red state and there are those of us who are pushing hard to make it purple. The outraged whining of our republican candidates when they have to face real opposition for the first time in their shoddy, selfish careers is music to my ears.
It’s absolutely terrifying that the government is cracking down on the ability of concerned citizens to talk to their representatives. Applauding it is… well, a bit disturbing.
next we need campaign finance reform
we cannot have corporations buying our law either through lobbying or campaign finance
P J Evans @ 7
If money=free speech, then wealthy americans have more free speech than middle class americans. And those below the poverty line have little or no free speech at all.
Yeah, great system.
I remember reading in Wellstone’s Conscience of a Liberal about the whining and bitching when anyone mentioned curtailing lobbyists or skipping a pay raise(and who the hell ever gets to decide when and what their own raise is? What a bunch a poop that is). It was deemed insulting to the Senators,being so above the fray and all….yuck.
I miss Paul Wellstone.
The elements, tons of laundered money, the CIA, and the incredible amount of secrecy have me want to know more about what Frankfurter Allemaigne studied in their analysis that points to CIA’s involvement in super dollar counterfeiting which they allege here:
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/46786 /
THE MOTHER LODE:
Duke Cunningham and outing the entire Saudi Slush Fund conspiracy.
http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;1529067
This is important stuff.
You have connected so many dots here, you may have just explained everything.
Exemplary. Well done.
I am bookmarking this for a better read tomorrow. I am having trouble taking it all in. Thank you for posting this. I think I’ll copy the whole page and save it for history to show my grand kids when their older.
This has to be the most informative thread I have ever read on DU. Glad to recommend. Anxious to read more tomorrow. This needs to be kept kicked for days and days.
Congrats on the zed, old coastie!
Thanks for the good news, Christy.
I’ve loved seeing the pharma reps booted out of med schools and public clinics – never thought I’d live to see lobbyists pushed back.
Good news!
casual observer @ 16
You and I heard the same report. What I wonder is: why NPR (which has been overtaken by RWingnuts) attempted so convincingly to downplay the effectiveness of the legislation.
One part is that they want to paint it as a bipartisan issue. Perhaps another part is that they want people (especially liberal activist listeners) to feel hopeless and apathetic (not want to vote).
Any other clues?
Democracy is supposed to have something to do with a level playing field. How do we do that? Public financing of elections. And a side car benefit. Imagine all the fat cat K-street lobbyists running around looking for a job. Fred Thompson is a lobbyist. So is his wife. Perfect.
Yes, I tend to be doubtful about these reforms. For legislators, it seems they still get their perks, with maybe a little more paperwork for the lobbyists. It strikes me that a lot of this “reform” is aimed at the staffers. While this is good, it appears to be another case of going after the small fish and letting the big fish go.
“This is a good start on the supply end of the money chain that corrupts our politics.”
A good start indeed – bless you PW – lovely to start the day with truly good news despite the unspeakable August recess.
ReElect President Gore & VP Edwards 2008!
To our Friends on the Right – Our Common Enemy is Ideology:
“The history of failure in war can almost be summed up in two words, too late. Too late in comprehending the deadly purpose of a potential enemy. Too late in realizing mortal danger. Too late in preparedness. Too late in uniting all possible forces for resistance. Too late in standing with one’s friends.”
~ Gen. Douglas MacArthur
Hugh @ 27
It does seem like a fox and henhouse deal(though anytime a lobbyist is worried,an angel gets their wings) I think this is a flaw in our system,that legislators make the laws governing their own largesse,pay,gifts,etc. I don’t know what the answer is,but as long as the law makers get to make the laws regarding lobbying,I don’t know how it’ll ever be on the up and up.
mc @ 11
yes, like a loophole through which gift-giving becomes called a “raffle”, (insert thuglican double-speak here.) and the winner takes all…
Between the news about the poor lobbyists and the reports from Bob Novhack that Republicans just can’t get jobs in the media, my heart is breaking into pieces………from laughing so hard.
-GSD
Glad to hear some good news!
hackworth @ 27
Frum in the WSJ today has a piece on the opinion page that said the same thing. That this was a crappy bill and Bush should veto it because it didn’t actually curtail anything.
hackworth @ 27
The bill needs to be looked at–it was just a brief blurb on that little market show they have..damned if I can bring the name to mind. Perhaps it is as good as advertized, but to tell you the truth I’m now highly skeptical of every bill coming out of congress, regardless of party.
Quote: “The new law has quickly sent a ripple of fear through K Street. It comes amid signs that federal prosecutors are taking a newly aggressive approach to corruption cases — including treating campaign contributions as potential bribes.”
Yeah, I’m sure Alberto Gonzales will pursue DC lobbyists with great dispatch.
I mean, yeah, sure, sounds good and all, but really….
We are supporting Gore in our home.
The thing that struck me reading this piece is that a LOT of DC resteraunts are gonna go outta business.
Littleprop and I are heading to DC for a little vaca next week (I know, what kind of lunatic vacations in DC in the summer? The kind with a kid who is fascinted by the Library of CCongress)
and we willhave hit all the good resteraunts cause they may not be around next year.
Need rcommendations
Enoch Root @ 38
Can we agree that it’s a start? Nothing is perfect but you have to begin somewhere or you are paralized.
does anyone mind if i ask a naive question with slightly ironic undertones?
lobbyist are getting frantic that they won’t be able to get the ear of legislators. has the basic operating principle finally devolved to a point where a legislator would never meet with a lobbyist unless free meals/tickets/and campaign contributions were to change hands?
i mean, in theory at least, a lobbyist might bring some useful information to the attention of legislators. do lobbyists really see money as their only way to have a voice? are they so personally unpersuasive? are their ‘interests’ totally without merit?
i’m not sure who it speaks worse of… lobbyists or legislators. both, probably. but at least there’s one good thing about this… the last shred of pretense about the nature of the legislator/lobbyist relationship is gone.
okay. returning to lurking now.
Loopholes, loopholes, loopholes. I’m so weary of them.
isis2 @ 42
Great question. Here’s a follow-up.
How often do citizens and citizen groups get access to the legislators?
I think it’s funny that if the lobbiests don’t provide good food, no one shows up…
Hugh @ 29
We’ve got to get more peoples’ Democrats elected, replacing corporate Democrats, and cull the peoples’ Democrats who turn corporatist once elected. Concurrently, we’ve got to beat Republicans with whichever Democratic candidates are on deck – all while Karl Rove is listening to every move.
Yes. This has been another episode of simple answer to simple questions.
Today’s Froomkin is up, something about cowardly Democrats. What ever could he mean?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html
OldCoastie @ 4
I was just looking at photos of Repug reps and senators. They ARE having trouble with their waistlines.
Actually to give a more serious reply to isis2 @ 42
The reason why big DC lobbyists have to pay to be heard is that they don’t want to contribute sound advice, they want legislation that will increase their market power against the interests of the voters. Big Pharma in Medicare Part D (did I designate that correctly?) is the quintessential example.
newspaperbrat @ 30
John Edwards for President. Yes.
Al Gore has shown NO INTEREST in running.
We’re less than 6 months from the big cahuna.
Al for President?
This is the reality-based community.
Hugh @ 48
He musta been lurking here.
In reality is the DLC just a bunch of lobbyists. I honestly don’t know. I can never find out what this little group does. And yes… I’ve Googled them.
Crikey, I called all of my federal elected representatives’ offices on my lunch. The two Democrats both voted to pee on the Constitution while my Republican senator just didn’t vote at all.
I still don’t feel any better.
The lobbying reform helps a little, but none of that really matters in a dictatorship does it?
I look back through history and we see this stuff so many times… The Roman Senate was quick to vote itself out of power. We saw this kind of capitulation in Germany last century and I’m sure we could come up with numerous other examples.
Fear truly is the enemy of freedom.
So Nero fiddled while the Riechstag burned and the twin towers came down while our imperious leader fanned the flames of fear of a minority religious group to consolidate his power. The representatives of the People were too cowardly to resist.
How many times will this story replay itself?
Jane: Did you get this?
EPU’d from last thread:
Biodun @ 132
looseheadprop @ 40
IIRC, Signatures is the name of convicted lobbyist Jack A’off’s restaurant. It must be pretty good. All the rethugs ate there. They love good food (for themselves). That is – if it isn’t locked-up.
Twain @ 41
Gee, need more coffee. Can’t even spell.
Without the big salaries and perks, the best and brightest won’t run for public office?! My, my whatever shall we do……
CAROL LAM @ 25
Very interesting. Also interesting is that Issa and Murtha just blocked the release of the intelligence budget that was just written into law to be released:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0807.html
anangryoldbroad @ 32
Change the language in the Code of Federal Regulations that lets them set their pay. Instead, let their salary be decided by the voters during each Presidential election.
Outlaw professional lobbying, period. You care about getting a particular thing done, you come sell it to Congress all by yourself (or with a band of like-minded citizens).
No campaign donations — the media will be required to set aside air time and publication space for each candidate. Equal time will be given to all candidates.
These PSAs will air for a month before primaries and the general elections. Lawn signs will still be permitted. Other signage will be allowed only if all candidates get one in that area.
radiofreewill @ 31
Isn’t that what the President is saying with regard to the Islamic Radical threat?
Well, there goes the major source of protein for Hill staffers. I used to go for weeks without spending a dime on food.
put a salary cap on Lobbying making lobbyists register and receive their pay through the gov… on scale with gov workers.
Any group which wants to set up a lobby shop applies to the feds for a license to operate and the are assessed a fee depending on the number of employees they have on staff and receive an office allowance etc. hahahahaha
casual observer @ 24
the obvious dubiation (dubiation=a word I just invented)
anyway, the obvious dubiation is that money is NOT free speech, it was DECLARED free speech by the corporatists in the supreme court
we need that ruling rescinded…since that’s obviously not going to happen we need an amendment to rescind money as a form of speech
we then need to add another amendment that will rescind the rediculous notion that corporations enjoy personhood
corporations are not persons and they cannot enjoy the same consitutional protections that are birthrights of PEOPLE
brownbuffalo @ 58
Who is the Cristianist rep from Georgia – pimping the ten commandments and couldn’t name any?
Tom @ 62
I was a security guard on a college campus. Many and delicious meal was had after board meetings and other bigwig meetings.
We used to hover around like vultures and then spring into action before the catering crew cleaned up.
-GSD
eCAHNomics @ 52
He didn’t need to lurk to get that right.
Tom @ 62
Jeepers, had no idea that the exponential increase in my health insurance and medical care was really funding a food aid program for the working poor on Capitol Hill…
Talk about your unintended consequences. /snark
Lobbying is an enormous racket and everyone in gov wants to be one for some fat corporation and make 2mm a year like Tancredo.
looseheadprop @ 41
My recollection is that all those restaurants were supposed to go out of business with the last reforms.
Carol at 26,
The CIA printing its own money to finance all kinds of nasty stuff? Sadly there was a time when this would have shocked me. Those days are long gone. Information that is considered widely circulated in Europe never gets through the “Iron Curtain.” My daughter, an expat, is always telling me things that never make it to the American news outlets. We are too busy watching Brittany and obsessing over Hillary’s cleavage.
As to campaign finance reform, you either treat the symptom, or you treat the disease.
GSD @ 66
Hahaha, GSD! I’m surprised you weren’t run off by mobs of hungry grad students!
FunnyDiva
who were one, back in a previous life…
“The rules permit lobbyists to provide refreshment of ‘only nominal value.’ The House ethics committee guidelines suggest ‘light appetizers and drinks, or soda and cookies,’ a standard that is known as ‘the toothpick test’.”
I like this. I don’t know about you but under “normal breakfast value” I had plain yogurt and a piece of toast. That’s about right for normal value. On the “soda and cookies” the Twinkie Defense” didn’t hold up, may they remember and not try to use any such excuse to defend their conduct.
GSD @ 65
We miss the good old days at Signatures Restaurant. The quail wings, the wine, the champagne, the cigars, the lap dances.
-Bob Ney and The Dukestir.
mack @ 70
I doubt anyone is going out of bidness. People have to eat,lobbyists just won’t be footing the bill.
Besides,if times get a little,ahem,lean for people,they can do what the rest of us peasants do,suck it up and make do.
eCAHNomics @ 48
Their only way to have a job other than telemarketing.
Funnydiva, he who has the keys has the access.
-GSD
Marretta @ 71
You know what shocks me? That they had to resort to printing money instead of using the rest of the 9 billion in US dollars cash they stole from Iraq, along with the “hidden” monies Dr. Hillhouse pointed to in intelligence funding…
Guess running black ops including propaganda must be more expensive these days than I figured.
CAROL LAM @ 26
TPM has a story up about that and how a guy named Kontogiannis is being hidden by Federal Prosecutors. My money (not counterfeit) is on a CIA/Mob connection …..
GSD @ 75
IIRC, some reporters were sitting in the car outside a house where Dubya and Rove were dining on quail wings and were given quail wing left overs from the benevolent Rove.
Mmmm quail wings.
hackworth @ 83
At least they never got around to serving tender dinosaur front legs. TRex would have had to hide out.
Rayne,
Of course they had to print their own money! That 9 billion was just a drop in the bucket for these crooks. they waste more money on propaganda than the cost of Universal health care for every American in an average year. I’d like to see those assholes live on a real budget for a month. It would bring their dirty little games to a grinding halt.
LHP – there are lots of great restaurants in Bethesda. Take the red line up – you’ll be glad you did.
ps – did your hunch ever pan out, regarding the ID of the anonymous TPM guy?
Are quail wings the new cocktail weenies? It is so difficult to keep up with the trends. My can of progresso soup may not be trendy, but there is no aftertaste of political manipulation to it.
Public Financing of federal elections!!!
It’s the only way to drive a wooden stake through the lobbyist’s hearts.
SF Chronicle editorial:
Lets see now. Does the mortgage world have lobbyists? Of course I’m being ridiculous here. Does the Health industry have a lobby or two or three. Are we spending $12,000,000,000 per month on Iraq and Aghanistan. Does the MI complex have a lobby? We are being suffocated under tons of lobby garbage.
DERRY, N.H. – Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Rodham Clinton on Tuesday called for penalties against mortgage brokers who engage in predatory lending and a $1 billion federal fund to help homeowners avoid foreclosure.
Carol 26,
It is the Mother Lode alright..it is the whole Bandar Bush scandal and everything else connected to it….pull a thread and they all come tumbling down…holy smokes.
perris @ 64
Sure, agree completely. Maybe the democrats can get right on that, after they fix their incredible fainting act regarding FISA.
Marretta @ 87
There were two quails wings mention of note. One had to do with the media camped outside of Karl Rove’s house and he sent them a little doggie back with sausage(Gannon’s smoked) and quails wings.
Also, the aloof and serious Dean Dickwad Dave Broder wrote about how he was a personal friend of Karl Rove’s and how he enjoyed sitting on his lovely porch and enjoying quails wings.
-GSD
GSD @ 93
OMG. I’ve been supporting Karl’s quail wing habit unwittingly by letting them nest each year in my garden under very protective conditions so they could produce an abundant crop of little ones.
Rayne @ 81
You know dozen or two CIA guys the Italians charged in the abduction of some local Muslim who was taken to Egypt and tortured? They spent weeks in 5 star hotels before they did their op.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
GordonM @ 95
Here’s an article that shows how the Italian police caught those guys. Tracked their cell phones. Morons.
http://www.wired.com/politics/…..-07/st_cia
Sounds about right for congresscritters. Give everything to corps to screw consumers, then use federal $$ to fix the consequences.
Ok,that was wierd. At my 96,the middle sentence is mine,not OK Kiddo’s
Describe to me the kind of person who would choose the CIA, NSA or any other “secret” organization supported by tax payers. Who here would apply for a job with these organizations? Hum….
looseheadprop @ 41
August in DC? The weather sucks but with Congress on recess, restaurant reservations are easy to get. If you go to Kinkead’s on Penn Ave, get the crab cake appetizer.
GSD,
In my more optimistic moments I have visions of Karl in an orange jump suit behind bars. No quail wings in prison, I bet.
fahrender @ 82
... waves to Fahrender …
How’s it goin’, eh? Brilliant snark as usual …
eCAHNomics @ 50
Lobbyists can put boots on the ground and cultivate relationships with both Congresspeople and their staffs. Several commenters here have noted that staffers often are clueless about important issues and legislation. Lobbyists can fill them in giving their sponsors’ slant. At least up to now, they could do so over drinks or a nice lunch. The same applies to Congresspeople in general. Do they actually read and understand most of the legislation they vote on? Of course not. They depend on others (often lobbyists) to tell them what’s in a bill, what ought to be in a bill, and whether it is good or bad. Indeed it is an open secret that parts of bills are not just suggested by lobbyists but written by them. In return lobbyists can bundle contributions together or reward the member in other ways and legally pay him/her off for his/her vote.
Then add in that some corporations or industries have a special interest in certain Congresspeople either because they are big in their state or district or because the Congressperson sits on a particular committee.
So first, it is very hard to differentiate (especially when those involved aren’t terribly interested in making any distinctions) between what is legitimate and what is not, and between what is lobbying and what is outreach or just normal campaigning.
Second, lobbyists know the system often better than those they lobby and give them ready made expertise and rationales.
The current reforms change none of this.
QuakerGirl @ 99
You know, some very honorable people hold those jobs — when you scorn them, by extension you’re scorning Valerie Plame.
Why is it hard to believe that most of those who took jobs with the Federal government did it because they wanted to serve their country?
QuakerGirl @ 100
When I went to business school years ago, the CIA sent a recruiter who gave a seminar for us to come and work there.
randiego @ 97
What a great story. Thanks so much fot the link. I’d expect no less from the $40 billion U.S. spook budget.
randiego @ 97
That’s because they are so arrogant and full of themselves they have no idea they stand out like neon sighs – Me CIA. (Arrow points to head blinking.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 73
I don’t think it has to be either/or — why not treat both? Especially since, to the degree that it’s effective, treating the symptom will help elect people who are more likely to treat the disease.
casual observer @ 38
The show is Marketplace (American Public Media). Kai Risdahl usually hosts. They also have Marketplace Morning Report and Marketplace Money.
That Italian/CIA story might be the reason Bush recently did the EO to protect CIA torture methods.
Is this the first step, at last, of making us an actual democracy? It is certainly a step in the right direction. After 200 years of institutionalized 18th Century corruption it will be hard to wean them away from the trough.
Until somewhere in the 80s a British candidate for Parliament could spend no more than $1000 on getting elected, though the Party could run ads saying Vote Labour/Conservative/Lib as long as the candidate’s name was not mentioned. I think that figure is still not above $10,000. Now wouldn’t that be refreshing. If we were to follow that lead they might all be more receptive to understanding they represent the people and not big business!
We have a wee start.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 40
That sentence can be read in several ways.
Just saying.
For Sale:
Hog Dog Weenies
Like New
Maybe the redacted parts of the 9/11 commission regarding funding by the Saudis actually leads to the Bandar Bush Saudi slush fund for black ops?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 44
“The devil is in the details.” German proverb
Brisingamen @ 105
The fatal flaw with spying is that it is, by essential nature, secret. Thus there is no competition, no meaningful oversight possibilities. Thus it is rotten. Now diligent employees & their masters can minimize the fatal flaw, and lostsa luck to these naifs, but they can’t eliminate it. Some, less upstanding, folks will be drawn to it by virtue of its secrecy & how they can use that to their advantage. Some upstanding folks wouldn’t touch spying with a 10-foot pole because it is fundamentally corrupt.
Valerie Wilson is a hero here because of her role in exposing what the fatal flaw wrought, not for what she did at the CIA, which we don’t know much about.
CAROL LAM @ 26
Is anyone else having trouble with the democratic underground link?
Dee, 118. I couldn’t link to it at first, but I kept trying and finally got through. Maybe they are having heavy traffic. Astounding information.
isis2 @ 43
Good point, and that’s why I particularly liked this paragraph of the article:
A point I’ve heard made by some lobbyists is that the practice is not inherently evil, that it’s useful for legislators to hear the opinion of those affected by legislation. This provision should be applauded by those who truly believe that (and there do seem to be some), because if they can make their information compelling, they will get a hearing, and if they can’t, they shouldn’t be allowed to pay to get staffers to feel friendly toward them.
kirk murphy @ 27
Yeah, but I miss the free inkpens and the nerfballs and stuff. My specialty isn’t a big prescriber of drugs, so we never got any free trips. And now I have to supply my own pads of paper! The horror! ;)
Dee @ 118
Worked fine for me.
LibertyLee @ 62
What, that he was too late in all of those things, and that’s why he has been a failure in war? No, I can’t say I’ve heard him say that.
LS @ 106
Um … wasn’t the CIA started after you got out of school ?!!
… tee hee hee …
Did everyone see this at rawstory?
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0807.html
Marretta @ 72
Actually, WE are busy trying to separate the truth from the fiction while we watch the dittoheads obsess over Brittany and over Hillary’s cleavage.
OT: There was a seizmic event exactly in the area of Nevada’s NTS (nuke testing), one hour before the seizmic event that trapped the miners in Utah.
The owner of the mining company gave a presser about an hour ago, and he said that if the miners are dead, they were killed instantly due to “percussion”…then he corrected himself and said the “earthquake”. Just sayin’. There has been such strange reporting on it.
Petrocelli @ 124
:P
eCAHNomics @ 125
Did Pelosi/Reid seek Bruce Fein’s input before bringing the FISA bill to a vote in Congress?
LS @ 128
*mmmwaaah* … just to give you a rib tickle …
eCAHNomics @ 122
Thanks, guys. I keep getting “invalid input parameter” so I still can’t catch the link. I’ll just try some other avenues to find the info.
LS @ 127
Last news report I heard was that the company is claiming that it was the seismic event that collapsed the mine & the scientists have not weighed in yet. Has the timing, i.e. that the shake preceeded the collapse, been determined for sure?
New thread
The old German proverb, God is in the details, is attributed to Flaubert, btw.
Hugh at 104,
Your brilliant description of the DC lobby crowd is nearly identical to the way the big Pharms court Doctors and nurses. Doctors flock to the CME offerings provided by big Pharm. The doctors get their continuing medical education credits, a nice meal or two, and all they get is what my physician father used to call “The holy gospel according to Merck.
LS @ 127
What? Do have any link on this?
eCAHNomics @ 132
Yes, they have established a seismic event in connection. Mr. LS also went to look at the quake map and noticed the one in Nevada one hour earlier.randiego @ 135
Mr. LS got it from the quake map last night and saw the event in Nevada an hour prior to the Utah event, then he searched where testing in Nevada was done, and it is the same area as NTS testing. The fact that there was a seismic event in Utah has already been established. You can see both quakes on the quake map, but I have to go find it, and I can come back with a link to that.
LibertyLee @ 62
I reject your propaganda “Islamic Radical threat”. Islam is a religion that promotes peace, just as Christianity is. But lots of self described “christians” are warmongers.
Where is the threat? What is the order of battle of the enemy? Are there 200, 2000 or 20,000? During WWII, the US learned everything it could about our enemy. We know nothing about this “Islamic” enemy because it is kept secret. This “war on terror” is a phony war started by the Saudi government and US neo-cons. Except Dick Cheney always knows what the “enemy” is thinking. He just cannot find them.
TexBetsy @ 45
FWIW, in a past life, I did some lobbying work on behalf of the oil industry. All we had to do was throw a cocktail party with a buffet or hors d’ouvere line, and the staffers and critters flocked in. What was funny was that I could try to engage a staffer in a conversation, and he or she was usually checking their watch every 10 seconds and tapping their foot as they gulped down their drink — they were ready to go to the next event!
I guess if you provide enough booze, you can get their ear for a while, but the chances are they will forget until the next time you invite them…
Not exactly how you would expect civics to work, is it?
Frank33 @ 137
Cheney should look in Chertoff’s gut for clues.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqc…..5.-113.php
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/
Lindy at 126,
I did not mean to suggest that anyone who posts at FDL is a dittohead. I was using the term we to refer to the American MSM and the people who never question it.
LS @ 136
The quake map is here:
http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/latest.htm
Everything in the test area is onesy-twosy; you couldn’t have felt it even if you were there.
Frank33 @ 137
I recommend to your reading list Ibn Warriq’s Why I Am Not A Muslim written by a former Iranian Muslim. He documents the savagery built-in to the teachings that have little to do with either Jewish or Christian teachings. It was a merging of those two plus Zorastrianism and Arianism and several other savage pagan Arabian religions from whence Islam developed and it was a warrior religion from the start, as when Mohammad slays all the inhabitants of Mecca who do not convert to his new religion which essentially was a Bedoin trade war.
Hastert the Unspeakable?
God, Tom DeLay must have strong forearms, to have to support all that weight with his hand up Denny’s ass.
looseheadprop @ 41
It’s been ages since I ate in DC. Here’s a quick guide from the WaPo:
WaPo
Try dropping loudonlib a line…she’s from Northern Va. and I’m sure Jane has some ideas.
Good luck and have fun. (I hope you’re not driving…DC will make you batshit crazy trying to drive).
Phoenix Woman @ 144
Did you mean hand or head ?!!
(bold mine)
Have a great rest of summer, folks.
Boarding now and off to the Black Sea.
Keep things in order ’til I get back, please.
Excuse me. EXCUSE ME. LIVING TOGETHER? SHARING APARTMENTS? I THINK NOT!
Jeebus!!!!
Wonder how Ohio Congressman Steve LaTourette’s wife will handle this one. After all she’s a VP at Van Scoyco.
I WANT to smile, I WANT to believe this is good, and has value, and WON’T get smothered, circumvented and executively signing’ed comprimised. I really do.
But, as PW infers, I’ll take ANY good news at this point.
Thanks PW for sharing this . . . ‘preciate a glimmer here and there! *G*
Marretta @ 72
Carol@26 second thought:
The second link does not work, and it’s the KEY to your post . . . trying it find it at DU where I can’t find a SEARCH button is frustrating.
Can we get a fixie here, please? This is really interesting methinks . . thanks in advance.
LS @ 119
This is the error message I keep getting:
Invalid Input Parameter
The information you requested cannot be displayed one or more input parameters has invalid syntax.
If you have any questions, please contact the site administrator.
Click here to go back to previous page.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
Good for Hillary. I wonder if she suggested these ideas first or if Edwards did. If she was first it would be…a first.