I just want to comment on the Washington Post article which said that based on observations made about Yearly Kos, the progressive blogosphere is a bunch of white males. I spoke with the author, Jose Vargas, at length prior to its publication but what I had to say doesn’t seem to be the story he wanted to write and there were many other non-bloggers willing to validate his point and that’s what made it into print. From my perspective, while there may have been a socioeconomic bias that may have made it easier for white male non-bloggers to attend Yearly Kos, there is diversity in the blogosphere and more than that a tremendous willingness to embrace more. And I question the authority and the knowledge regarding the progressive blogosphere of people who don’t acknowledge that.
The biggest blogger by far is Arianna Huffington, with 70 million page views per month. Markos is #2, and no amount of willingness to turn him into a white male is going to do that. Markos is Hispanic and that’s just a straight fact. John Amato and Duncan Black are straight white men, but John Aravosis is gay (and so are many of his contributors). FDL rounds out the list of top blogs on the left, headed by two women, although Pach — a Hispanic gay man — is also one of our primary voices. Digby is probably the most quoted and sharpest thinker around, and she’s a woman. I just had to roll my eyes when I heard people who don’t actually, you know, blog (and I’m sorry, but putting up an occasional post on the web site of your think tank/interest group/consulting firm’s website does not de facto make you familiar with the ins and outs of blogging or the blog world) talk about some cabal of straight white males who sit around a table and decide who does and does not get linked to. To the best of my knowledge, Duncan Black and John Amato haven’t yet figured out a way to seamlessly oppress the rest of us and bend us like pretzels to their iron will.
I’ll tell you my experience here at FDL because it didn’t make it into the Washington Post, for what it’s worth. I spent a year trying to figure out the architecture of the blog world, how it works, what were the conventions and the rules. And I knew that with regard to the top bloggers, they wanted to encourage diversity. They wanted to be supportive and were anxious to find people who did what needed to be done in order to regularly link to them and give them traffic and exposure. That means several things, which Pach outlines in this post, but among them you have to post regularly about the topics that news junkies are interested in and you have to find a way to write your issues into those. It is difficult to get people to care about pro-choice, my personal signature issue. I found a way to write it into the Alito story, the Joe Lieberman story, the NARAL story, in a way that the blogosphere got interested in because I took the time to figure out how things worked and how you could catch the wave. I also took a lot of time building relationships with other bloggers, reading what they had to say, linking back to them, going out of my way to meet them in person when I could (no matter how big or little the blog) and being in conversation with other bloggers rather than sitting there carping about how they never linked to me.
Women and people of color have important perspectives to add to any conversation. We need more of both in the progressive blogosphere, it makes it richer and the insights deeper and more comprehensive. But Yearly Kos was prohibitively expensive (my hotel bill was $910) and that just isn’t a cost that bloggers who by and large do what they do as a labor of love can afford. Pach did a sampled study of people on the panels and found that only 28% were actually bloggers, so conflating those at Yearly Kos with the progressive blogosphere is a big mistake. It just isn’t so. I saw a more Democratic consultants, think tank and interest group representatives than I did bloggers. If you want to argue that the majority of those are white males based on who attended Yearly Kos maybe you have an point. I wouldn’t make that kind of generalization because I don’t know that world.
People can insist that the blogosphere is a bunch of white males but it just isn’t. I sat there and listened to someone who actually does blog and who I like a lot say that nobody of color was blogging on “A” list blogs about prison reform or immigration and I looked over at Pach, a person of color who writes about those issues frequently on FDL, and we both just shrugged our shoulders. What were we going to do? It wasn’t what anybody wanted to hear.
We work all the time to bring more diverse points of view to FDL and will continue to do so. Slagging the blogosphere off for being a bunch of white males is deeply insulting and dismissive of all the hard work people who have been successful and aren’t white males put in to get to where we are.
(photo of Christy Hardin Smith, Jonathan Singer, Digby, Taylor Marsh and James Rucker at the YK2007 “hot topic” panel by Ms. Helena Handbag).
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Jane!
Jane!
Jane you were great on CNN! I saw that they replayed it later with the “correct” video clip, but with all the same answers.
As I said in an earlier Scarecrow thread in response to Rayne’s comment about diversity at Yearly Kos: The diversity in the blogosphere more or less reflects the diversity in the Net-saavy community in the US in general.
I wasn’t there but still this leaves me myth-stified.
Great post Jane.
Steve Gilliard..male, black, blogger. RIP
Hugh @ 5
Oh, lord, punaise, where are you?
Yes, I know. France.
*g*
Thanks, Jane! This is important! Did YearlyKos collect demographics on registrants? What about post-panel and session evaluations? I have written curriculum for adult continuing education (and presented) and wonder if next year’s Netroots Nation event couldn’t link to continuing educ providers so that people could get some more bang for their buck, while collecting useful demographic data for bloggers and the blogosphere. Two people who come to mind I read on Kos: Rserven, who is a computer science college prof, and who blogs about adult education and pedagogy, and DrSteveB, who I think is a public health physician and who presents weekly demographics polls for DK readers. Perhaps, some next steps are to create some alternative paths for progressive blogosphere conventions – meat space, virtual and distance learning-based.
Thanks for writing this – it’s very interesting to read, and it’s full of food for thought in working on bettering my own little slice of the blog world.
Another myth which needs to be put to rest is that the blogoshere is primarily made up of “kids.” I have no idea how the age demographics can be tracked on those who write for and follow blogs, but my instinct is that many/most of us are well into “middle age” (whatever that is these days–but it is older than it used to be).
Chicago is expensive that is for sure.
What I can not understand is why it makes a blind bit of difference whether a blogger has breasts or not (are breasts the most important thing in MSM these days?). What does matter is that white, black, gay, woman and anyone else has a forum and many and diverse opinions lead to a deeper understanding of issues.
It is interesting to note that the first people that MSM have decided to ditch are editors. The NYT started the trend a number of years ago and now it seems universal.
OK- What I want ta know is–Why the hell aren’t there any straight white male bloggers out there- why are they all gay, female, or of color?
Oliver Willis.
Male. Black. Blogger.
http://www.myspace.com/owillis
Oh Jane, I was wondering if and hoping that you would write this.
Can we get some data? An FDL demographic survey, perhaps?
This happened to me a fair amount when I was a Wall St. economist. And that was before MSM got so bad, and in a field with lower emotional content. Don’t take it personally. Try to change the meme, but don’t be surprised if you don’t suceed.
As you did last night on CNN! The whole premise of the interview was stooopid, but you raised the level of discussion with your answers.
Maybe they think that, if they don’t acknowledge women and people of color, they won’t have to deal with us or our issues,
As in “la, la, la, la, I can’t (see) hear you”.
THe article was disingenuous at best,
Huh.
Isn’t being heard a requisite for stardom?
Baffling–is he saying that the horde of PJ-clad bloggers hiding out in their moms’ basements are white males? Most white males live behind big, big desks–with secretaries and assistants and stuff. Sounds like the war of the stereotypes….
slight typo about Digby: “…and she’s a women” should be “…and she’s a woman.”
No biggy.
Woodhall Hollow @ 10
simple answer: survey … for free or almost free at surveymonkey.com or zoomerang
many have been done … we’re 35-40ish, working, educated … smarter than the average tv demographic
Steve-AR @ 15
Doh, I’m a white male. Sorry to reinforce the stereotype. However I live in a rural area of a red state and I’m librul.
Armando @ 6
Thanks, Armando. Good to see you here again.
wtf @ 21
Oh to be 40ish again !
FWIW, our Hot Topics panel was the opening act for the Presidential debate that followed. And it will likely play on C-Span at some point, because they did tape it. And you’ll see that it was three women, one black male, and a lonely white male — and we had a blast doing the panel and didn’t give a rat’s ass about any of our genders or colors or what have you.
It was about the ideas. Period. (And despite my cleavage, I managed to moderate the panel just fine, thank you…)
i’m gonna write a screenplay starring a black chinese jewish lesbian blogger who is very very good at math and can sing and dance but is looking for romance, maybe a nice doctor or a lawyer
And oh: I’m definitely NOT a white male… the last time I checked the mirror.
Biggus Diggus @ 20
She is woman hear her roar.
That is very interesting. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. We wouldn’t all show up at their venues.
“many have been done … we’re 35-40ish, working, educated … smarter than the average tv demographic”
I guess that’s right…except for the “working” part-I’m at work, but actually “working”?
Jane! How are you today? As far as I’m concerned, the only rock stars in this business are you gals and Arianna (and Digby, of course). Who else is there?
Garrison Keillor wrote this about Disaster Beliefs, but I think it speaks to the fact that more bloggers are middle-aged:
It’s not young people who imagine soup lines when the Dow Jones falls. They’re too busy snazzing up their Web sites.
Does anyone agree?
SufiLizard @ 22
White males have something to add too. *g*
Oh, and Jane is absolutely correct that the cost was prohibitively expensive. I stayed at a cheaper hotel, and my bill was still in the $850 range. We could barely afford for me to go, but Mr. ReddHedd and I thought it was important and we found a way to do this — I can certainly see why this would have been tough for a lot of folks economically regardless of gender or color.
wtf
OK I’ll write a screenplay about an hispanic african american muslim blogger who is flat broke an lookin fer love- then yer blogger an my blogger can find romance and eternal bliss together.
…and why should that automatically slag us anyway? There were alot of white males – rich white males – fighting for civil rights, because it was the right thing to do.
I think it’s just another republikant meme to tear our solidarity apart.
One of the best times I had at YKos were hanging out with two Latino bloggers who were there because of Kid Oakland’s fundraising (another point in support of the thesis that travel expenses, not blogosphere participation, are what makes the YKos membership what it is.) They were great guys, and both our differences and what we had in common made for great conversation.
Another memorable time was when two Michigan bloggers of Middle Eastern ancestry were casually talking about how they’d have to shave before the flight home, because if they weren’t clean-shaven, they would always get pulled out to be searched.
We need to do more to make the convention accessible to people without much disposable income. The blogosphere? Yes, but not nearly as much.
…and, horrors, you forgot Shakes Sis!
To the best of my knowledge, Duncan Black and John Amato haven’t yet figured out a way to seamlessly oppress the rest of us and bend us like pretzels to their iron will.
Don’t forget Chris Bowers and Matt Stoller and Jerome Armstong and K-Drum —
Seriously, FDL is THE BEST because of the diversity of opinions, sharp analyitical posts, and freewheeling (yet civil) comments.
Jane, Christy, Pach, TRex, et al — YOU ROCK.
Daily Kos hates Kuchinich.
That’s enough for me to know about Kos.
rwcole @ 35
broke? nope … well, depending on a few other characteristics
;)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 25
Why did C-SPAN not broadcast live? I’ve seen the wingnut convention on C-SPAN, and could swear it was live, but I wouldn’t swear to it.
In keeping with this theme that the political blogosphere is not necessarily dominated by white men, I’m curious what you guys think about the YouTube/CNN debate since only 24% of the YouTube questions SELECTED were from women.
Some have said that this is because YouTube is primarily white/male/young and women are underrepresented, thus, if the majority of questions came from men (a fact I cannot prove) then this is why the majority of questions selected (a proven fact) were from men.
I persist in my belief that since women make up 51% of the population and 55% of the registered electorate, then at least 50% of the YouTube questions SELECTED should have been from women.
I have a fuller post on this at my site (yes I’m female and run a site) at http://www.everydaycitizen.com at this post:
Almost 9 Million More Women – YouTube Blew It?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 25
I can’t wait for Vargas’ next story about bloggers’ cleavage.
Hope no one minds too much if I respond briefly up here to one aspect of Christy’s “Hard Knock Life?” thread — I’m so late to the discussion that virtually no one will see it if I post at the end down there.
Folks were listing the items which took a lot of time fighting for — all the years of the civil rights movement in the 20th century, all the decades it took for sufferage to gain the vote for women, etc.
Just want to note — the first anti-slavery manifesto in North America was written and published in 1683 by members of the Society of Friends and others allied with them, in Germantown, Pennsylvania (now a neighborhood long ago incorporated into the city of Philadelphia).
Think about that, 1683. It took almost two hundred years to get an official emancipation proclamation.
God forbid it should take that long to get our Constitution back! But I think on these things when I get deeply discouraged about the serious state of the path to dictatorship we are on now.
Our actions can NEVER be linked to any pragmatic notion of the likelihood of immediate success*, IMO. We must fight for what is right for no other reason than its very rightness. There have been many heroes who have died for their principle of justice for all, knowing full well that they would never see “the Promised Land.”
If we are to be patriots, we too must be willing to keep up the fight to save and restore democracy even if it takes the rest of our lives, and beyond, if need be.
JMO.
Love to you Jane, and to all you Firepups! Bless you for keeping the Fire of devotion to the Constitution burning brightly here at the Lake.
* (not that I don’t love pragmatic ideas for success, of course!)
rethuglican bloggers have buttcrack cleavage
eCAHN at 42 — Because Congress was still in session and they are obligated by contract to show floor footage live when it is going on as well as committee hearings and such. (When it is broadcast, though, you’ll get to see my pissed off rant about FISA…)
Wow great post Jane… Having not gone to YKos, I’ve been watching the “buzz” surrounding it and have been a bit floored by the characterizations of it.
So other than continuing to give a voice to the full spectrum of citizenry, irregardless of sex, race, color, religion or lack there of… What can be done to thwart these incorrect impressions that are starting to form and become the establishment’s “accepted view” of the blogosphere?
Guilty of flying while Middle Eastern. Lock ‘em up & throw away the key.
Steve-AR @ 15
There is a voluntary (mostly demographic) survey for attendees on the convention website. There are prizes; hopefully a lot of us will fill it out.
Pam Pohly @ 43
Did you email CNN, with a link to your blog?
Redshift @ 37
That was amazing, wasn’t it? Actually, Brainwrap is Middle Eastern, and Nirmal is Indian — but they both are darker skinned or “swarthy”, as Brainwrap put it.
But that doesn’t fit the blogger stereotype so the media ignored it. At least the folks who count do care in the right way; Nirmal is moving to DC this week to begin blogging for the AFL-CIO. Woohoo!!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 47
C-SPAN3 was available. Think that’s what the wingnut convention was on. And they could have started replaying it on 1 or 3 on Sunday, but didn’t
My sense is that left leaning blogs are pretty color blind and have open arms to good ideas and discourse.
Aside from some of the nicks which reveal gender… it’s hard to tell age and so forth. And it never mattered to me what color or gender someone is as long as they have something good to say… as do the Pups.
You omitted that white guy Josn Marshall by the way whose done some very good work and we all miss Billmon who was probably not a gay black female.
FDL has some incredible XX chromosone thinkers here… and most spell a helluva lot better than hunt and peck moi.
Jane, you and your ilk are a national treasure. hahaha.
basically the msm is saying about ‘yearly kos’ hey women and people of colour: you have nowhere to go in the ‘netroots.’
dont even think about it. they dont want you.
please for gods sake stay away. we do not want blacks, women, and white males comingling in opposition to…………power.
not having been to YearlyKos last year or this year, it is my observation from afar that last year seemed like a primarily Kos get-together not only for bloggers but for READERS of blogs as well as activists, whereas this year, my impression is of bloggers and assorted bigwigs, but maybe not so much the readers?? I may be wrong, not having been there, just reading and watching video, etc.
Last year, not being able to afford to go was almost physically painful for me, reading all the posts, whereas this year, it’s interesting and gratifying how much blogs have “crashed” the gates, but I don’t feel like I would’ve fit in much in person. I work full-time supporting my hubby (currently not working due to injury) and my son, and cost is definitely a big factor, even though Chicago is way closer than Las Vegas was.
I understand why next year will be Netroots Nation and less emphasis of DailyKos, but for someone who attended… Is the blogosphere considered to be bloggers PLUS audience for blogs, or maybe not so much anymore? (Because where would any of the blogs be, whether DK or FDL or any other, without devoted readers like me?? (I do know I choked up bigtime watching Kos’ key note speech and did feel a part of it all. (Thanks, Kos)
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 40
Hm. Wasn’t aware that DKos has merged into a single group mind with one opinion. I guess it’s lucky I moved over here a while back…
Every MSM article like that WaPo piece leave me with the same impression: this guy has no clue. It used to be funny watching the Wise Men blathering authoritatively about something they know nothing about, but now it’s just tiresome.
Exhibit A is always the claim that bloggers are “unaccountable” because we don’t have to clear stuff with an editor. You can only write that if you’ve never seen a hyperlink, never used one to check out a source and see if the argument being presented is supportable. Who needs an editor if you’ve got hundreds of readers ready to go “Gotcha!” on your ass at the first misquote or bit of sloppy thinking?
Supporting evidence is Mr. Vargas himself. He’s got an editor and it didn’t do him any good, did it?
Steve-AR @ 15
I’m bipedal.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
You, Jane etc do such great work…even for women *g*
Seriously though thank you so much for all you do and I made a venture to PayPal just now to help a little with the hotel.
Thanks again
The first I’d seen of the All White Males Kos meme was at the rude pundit’s blog. Teh rude one had guest bloggers last week – all of whom were black. One did that story while Kos2 was still rolling. All White Guys = more status quo.
It was an entertaining read, but I will take Jane at her word because Jane was there.
You mean FDL isn’t run by white men?
I’m outta here.
-GSD
Naw, didn’t occur to me. Maybe I should…
Pam
Jane:
Jose interviewed me at the convention. He came up to me because I was Filipino. I gave him Oliver’s name, Liza’s name, Pamela’s name. I e-mailed him with the site names. It was like he saw what he wanted to see and not go in-depth.
He should have followed up. I e-mailed him after reading the article in the WaPo. Told him he lost credibility because of his lack of research. In other words, totally shallow.
Steve-AR @ 15
I’m a 35yo straight (except for my man crush on TRex) white male veteran.
BTW the subject of this blog is one of the important reason why screen names are important. Using them you get accepted or shunned for the quality of your contribution, not for any ethnic, gender, orientation, or any other characteristic that does not influence how your mind works.
Pam Pohly @ 63
Do it, do it. Never too late. And you might even have some influence, since they’ll review constructive criticism for the next one.
de-lurking just long enough to say a big THANKS to FDL and contributors. Thanks to you folks I learn something new almost everyday. Back to lurking.
Oh, and if Chicago was too expensive, why don’t you all come down here to New Orleans next time. We’re cheap.
No, I don’t mean that way.
Stock Market up 193- It can’t decide whether ta shit or go blind.
Pam Pohly @ 43
I would opine that a network that profits mightily from the daily objectification of missing, runaway, drug-and-booze-abusin’, bearin’-whelps-out-of-wedlock, jailhouse-or-rehab-bound platinum-haired eye candies might have a vested interest in maintaining their own demographic fictions for the public’s perception.
Jane:
Agree completely with your analysis of blogger diversity.
I read FDL everyday and have commented only occasionally. I did start reading FDL when it was “new” for the Libby coverage (and Christy was Reddhead).
Today, I read it for the variety of perspectives that the different bloggers bring to issues that I am interested in.
And, lastly a shout-out to Siun who had the wonderful doctor from Iraq on, a few weeks ago. The discussion on that thread highlighted views (about american exceptionalism) that are seldom expressed in progressive blogs.
Jane, this question of “Where are the female bloggers?” comes up about once a quarter and has for years now.
It’s the reason why BlogHer began, to encourage the female blogosphere to flex its muscles and make it really freaking easy for the dolts in the media to figure out where the female bloggers were.
You will notice, of course, that BlogHer had yet another convention this year at the end of July…and the media ignored it. Short of massive amounts of marketing and excessive nudity, we really can’t make it any easier for them. No wonder at all the corporate media is little more than a collection of dead, mostly white middle-aged men walking.
If ya want cheap- go ta some city that’s suckin wind- like St. Louis.
Mods
Two of my comments got smushed together at 66 & it won’t let me edit. Second one starts at Pam Polly. Can you separate? Much thanks.
marjo @ 56
No, I didn’t feel like that was the case. At the FDL caucus, I would guess that around half the people present introduced themselves as lurkers or readers, and there were plenty of other people I met who said the same. Certainly no on thinks any less of someone there if they’re not a blogger, everyone who cares enough to be there (or here!) is “one of us.”
Now, I will say that the media people certainly don’t know the difference. When the ABC reporter came up to me while I was checking my email on my laptop and asked “are you a blogger?”, what quickly flashed through my mind was “well, actually I’m a frequent commenter at several blogs, though I occasionally post a diary at DailyKos…”, but what I actually said was “yes.” *g*
rwcole @ 69
Reminds me of Jeff Spicoli in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
“Is your brother gonna shit, or is he gonna kill us?”
-GSD
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 55
That is it exactly.
It’s all straight white male bloggers cause the female, gay, colored people took all the jobs.
as a married half anglo/half mexican-american male folk (and we have the sweetest 5/8 mexican american 8 year old son);
1) i came here because wise women were writing intelligent, compelling stuff and i needed firedog lake for my rage issues, please. i took reassurance that women were in charge.
2) i appreciated the appearance of gay writers as you expanded your contributors, Because the presence of gays is another affirmation that i am in the right place.
diversity isn’t optional.
it’s a measure of reality/sanity.
got to have it.
on our street we have two lesbian couples, mexican-american families, black households, a jewish couple lives next door and lots of white folks … retirees, college kids, and a half-way house …
Jane, et al, Y’all have made us a paradise in this cyber-whatever: we are in your debt.
Hugh @ 59
Ooh, kinky!
hackworth @ 77
And its about time for O’Reilly to gear up for his war on Christmas.
rw at 78 — I’m quite certain that was intended as snark, yes? (ahem)
GSD @ 76
First he’s gonna shit, then he’s gonna kill us.
GSD
It’s one of those sayins that you don’t know where it came from – or what it means exacly- but it makes ya laugh- at least it makes ME laugh.
Egad. And so continues the poking around of the left wing of the blogosphere with a 10 foot stick. Angry, extremists! Mostly white males (hypocrites)! Past blog reader surveys are available, I’ve filled one out. But that does not address what the demographics mean. There are a number of points, I think, to lodge here.
1. Representativeness: Using leading voices, as Jane does, or an unscientific “looks kinda white and male to me,” as the WaPo does, as criteria are both different ways of measure presence. Jane’s actually makes sense and has the logic of influence behind it. Compared to the right, the left has far more leading lights who are not male or white.
2. Distinguishing readers from bloggers. Both matter but figuring out why they matter needs to be understood. And then you have to wrestle with anonymity. People who make it to YKos have the time and resources and commitment to make it. Not surprising that it might reflect the most advantaged group in terms of basic attendance.
3. What is the point of difference: Anatomy as a criticism is a charicature of progressive arguments over the last two centuries, and some of the loudest pushback against that oversimplification has come from the left. Exactly what does it signal even if a majority of lefty bloggers are white males? Are they out their trying hard to protect while male power and privilege? Without some connection to analysis of power, the demographics don’t say much.
Redd
NO DEADLY SERIOUS—oh- ok- yeah it was snark.
Redshift @ 57
point taken. I probably didn’t express my point well at all.
rw — I thought so, but I didn’t want there to be any confusion. *g* I’m juggling enough today as it is…
Rayne @ 72
Rayne, serious question: are there any consolidated stats on the collected traffic of the BlogHer blogs?
I ask because the media tends to cover where the discernible influence is, and traffic (along with technorati rankings) is a quick and dirty way to measure that.
If the collective traffic, or average traffic level is low, then maybe the problem is more about some of the issues Jane has outlined above, about how to build influence through blogging, to find a way to get your interests into the broader conversation in a way that reflects a studied understanding of the dynamics of the medium and of online progressive audiences?
eCAHNomics @ 66
One thing that’s interesting to me. I cross posted my blog entry about the YouTube Debate Sexism to both http://www.everydaycitizen.com and to dailykos (here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/3/125211/0996 ) and at the kos entry I put up a little poll.
Almost as many people responded that the reason more male questions were chosen for the YouTube debate than female questions was because “The best questions were submitted by men” as those that said “The women’s movement still has a lot of work to do to eradicate sexism.” Yes, the poll sample was small, but it’s still interesting.
Redd
I’ll bet you are– how bout a nap?
rwcole @ 84
I like ‘he don’t know shit from shinola’.
-GSD
Twolf,
That was academy award winner Forest Whittaker’s first film.
Now he’s one of those wacked out L. Ron Hubbardites.
Okay, I went digging in the archives.
And I was blogging about the ridiculously repetitive question, “Where are the women bloggers?” as far back as 2004 (and I’m sure if I looked, I’d find something in 2003 and possibly 2002).
Jeebus, it was Ezra Klein who caused that particular post that quarter, too. Yeesh.
As to demographic, I like to think of myself as middle aged, but I worry that there are so few 118 year olds.
It really is shocking the amount confirmation bias in the MSM. They see only what they expect to see no matter how hard we attempt to get them to look at a few facts.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
How about Branson, MO next time? Or Knoxville or some smaller, less expensive city that is served by Southwest or other cheap carriers? Better yet, have your own FDL conference in WVA! And stay the heck away from New York City!
…and jmm is a jew. we’re more diverse than even earl butz could have imagined.
Yeah, I just liked the mix here. Gals, guys, gays, lawyers, doctors and all….
And I still miss Steve Gilliard.
-GSD
GSD
Yeah- exactly like that—
Two of the guys I worked with once were havin a little war—-one came upon the other shinin his shoes with his fingers and said–”can I get ya some toilet paper?” It was a three pointer.
Steve T. @ 58
egg-zackly
Thanks for this challenge to WaPo sloppiness, Jane. Here’s the reporter chatzing this morning:
When challenged on their facts and shit, he responds, “But I was trying to get people talking — and it worked!”
Also, your Sanchez pal Bluey got a shout-out, comparing CPAC with YK:
Hey Vargas — not so honest, actually…..
ew, is YearlyKos the blogosphere?
Kos is regarded by many as a (D) Party apparatchik, and it seems the convention was message controlled by that party, with no panels on Impeachment, and buy-in to (D) framing on the war, like Clinton’s faux withdrawal plan.
epu’d:
As most every sentient being now knows, in a madcap rush to cower in fear, the United States Congress, between Wednesday August 1, 2007 and Sunday August 5, 2007, rammed through passage of legislation gutting FISA Court jurisdiction and eviscerating the Fourth Amendment and other Constitutional privacy protections. The hasty and ill considered legislation was demanded by the Bush Administration. The Democratic leadership and Congressional majorities were cowed into going along with the shredding of our Constitutional underpinnings by the bully pulpit of George Bush and the well oiled machinery and media savvy of the GOP. They, as always, had their voices ready, spoke in unison and got their message out with effectively little to no objection and counterpoint. The most odious and damaging acts always get rammed past a timid and docile Democratic base by the superior message discipline and PR machine of the GOP.
If just once the Democrats and progressives in this country had their most powerful Senators, Presidential candidates and most effective public relations people and grassroots organizers together in one place, organized and with coverage by all of the mainstream media; maybe, just maybe, things would be different. With all the blogging luminaries, political movement organizers and high profile politicians in one place, say Chicago for instance, they could come together as one and focus on the sacred oath and duty to defend the Constitution. They could all discuss the critical issue at hand, hold rallies in unison, give inspirational speeches, whip their fellow bloggers and politicians into a purposeful frenzy and get the word out like never before seen from the left side of the aisle. The perfect storm of opportunity could be harnessed to once and for all fully inform the American people of what is going on in our country and make a principled stand for what is right, just and Constitutional.
Wouldn’t it be glorious to see all the bloggers, their supporters and the politicians in one place and point in time, dropping their own interests, their own pet peeves, their own self congratulations, and putting duty to country and Constitution first and foremost? That perfect storm of opportunity and necessity might well be a seminal turning point in the restoration of our Democracy. I guess we can always dream of what might have been at Yearly Kos in Chicago during the first week of August 2007. Instead, the new bosses are already same as the old bosses.
There are moments in time that must be seized; but we never do. I am tired of fighting from our heels even when we have the majorities. The damage done by the FISA “reform” is absolutely immense; and much of it cannot be undone, even if the act is. The legal and rhetorical cover given the criminal Bush Administration, coupled with the mortal wound to our supposed occupance of the moral high ground, will never be reeled in. I would like to note that my hands are not entirely clean either. Although I was kicking and screaming over the last week, it should have been louder and more pointed, and I should have tried to call out the Yearly Kos participants, both bloggers and politicians, during the fact as opposed to after. I know and have the contact info of a couple of very significant participants, and I did not realize the moment and make my best efforts to seize it either. I wrote the comment because I thought it needed to be said; not because I am holier than any of the “thous” at Yearly Kos. We have simply got to learn, adapt and do better than we have been. I truly believe the people, at least in their subconscience, are now well ahead of even the bloggers, much less the politicians. The time of need in this country is NOW, not in the post-electoral security of January 2009.
“Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were, and ask why not”. – Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy.
As to demographics.
I noted the recent list of US military dead contained four or five Latino names in a row.
I started to thinking if the American Latinos are feeling like a lot of American Blacks felt during Vietnam.
Fighting over there and getting shit over here.
-GSD
TiredFed @ 95
Actually the travel costs to these other places make them prohibitively expensive (and costly timewise). Places like Newark, NJ near main airports, but outside of the metro center, are often good deals). Plus you get alot more off-the-street walk-ins who can be charged for registration (bringing down overhead)to say nothing of the nearby media, who would be all over it, if it were in the NYC metro area.
That’s pretty discouraging. My interpretation would be that the Qs submitted by women went over the heads of the MSM types who were reviewing them.
darkblack @ 70
Wow. I admire people who can put sentences together like that! I am in awe. Well said.
Someone has probably already mentioned this – but “Hispanic” does not exclude white. Hispanic simply means people who originated in the Iberian Peninsula and either stayed there or migrated to other parts of the world. Hispanics today include whites, blacks, mestizos, mulattoes, etc.
Hold the thing in Hot Springs, Ar. ancestral home of the BIG DOG…oughta get a hotel there for bout five bucks- an ya can go dip in a “bath” for a few bucks more.
Sparkles
But that’s so- so- so- COMPLICATED!!!
rwcole @ 78
you forgot spanish ;)
Teddy San Fran,
Yes, the Conservative PAC has a history of acknowledging diversity.
This year Coulter called John Edwards a “faggot” and the year before she ridiculed “rag-heads”.
-GSD
Fed–OOPS- so I did! But did they only take that jobs that straight white males won’t DO?
wtf @ 26
In point of fact, my father wrote a book about Chinese Jews. He died without it ever being published. However, his grand-daughter, whom he hardly knew, married a Chinese man who converted, and now is the mother of two Chinese Jews.You’re on your own for black, gay bloggers, but I am sure they are out there.
OT
Thinkprogress reminds us to annversarize today as the 6th year since the PDB headline was Bin Laden Determined to Strike U.S.
This is a very interesting thread, and goes to the heart of the value of FDL, the News Blog (RIP Steve Gilliard), Pam’s House Blend, and many others.
The MSM, and their associated industries of advertising and public relations are looking for new sources of income. Most of the hype around Web 2.0 (of which blogging is one part) is being generated by public relations firms that are trying to sort out a changing set of relationships with clients and markets.
Very roughly speaking, middle aged white men continue to control the largest amount of money in the United States. If — and it’s a big if — the narrative gets spun so that the progressive blogsphere is seen as a potential source of revenue, then you’ll see development there.
If I remember correctly, talk radio in the early 1980’s had a much greater diversity in programming than what we came to think of as “talk radio” in the 1990’s with Rush, et. al. When the money came in was when a significant white male audience was identified. The money lead to better time slots, “production” values, and other signifiers of success — and the audiences followed the money to an increasingly small and narrow set of talk radio outlets.
We know what the outcomes of that process have been. I don’t think we want to see the blogosphere, and in particular, the progressive blogosphere, follow the same pattern of development.
Do you think the MSM guys are feeling a little threatened by the bloggers?
From the WASHPO article:
In a way, the outsiders have become insiders, leaving some members of the press a little confused. Steven Thomma, the veteran political reporter for McClatchy Newspapers, turned to another reporter during Sen. Hillary Clinton’s breakout session with bloggers and asked, “Are politicians trying to reach the bloggers? Or are they trying to reach us” — journalists — “through the bloggers?”
It appears Jose Vargas feels threatened by bloggers so he has to write a hit piece trying to dis-credit them.
Jane, I had the same reaction to the WaPo article: that someone looked around and saw all the non-bloggers @ YK, and then assumed this was a representative picture of bloggers. And the money issue occurred to me too.
eCAHNomics @ 113
Also Hiroshima.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 106
Are words like mulattoes acceptable? The question is serious, and I believe the answer is ‘no.’
IrishJim @ 115
Not only threatened, but a classic case of projection.
Actually- I believe that women control most of the money in the good ol US of A.
“Hispanic” and “white” are not mutually exclusive.
Pachacutec @ 89
I’m pretty sure that the organizers of BlogHer would be willing to share the data, although I haven’t seen it myself.
I don’t know that the real, underlying problem with women not cracking media’s brainpan when it comes to blogging has more to do with issues that Gladwell described in the Tipping Point. There may be an insufficiency of stickiness in women’s blogging styles versus that of men; notice how male bloggers continue to hold control of the most traffic, while more women’s blogs fall in the long tail.
I also suspect that another schism that is not at all obvious to folks here and in DailyKos is at play. You see, there’s another A-List that is parallel and older than the politically oriented blogs; there’s a wealth of bloggers who are focused primarily on technical issues and don’t pay much attention at all to this side of the stream, nor even much attention to the corporate media. Aldon Hynes is one blogger who’s transcended the breach; he blogs with folks who should be better known among our ranks, but for whatever reason never surface in our discussions on this side of the divide. Jock Gill, for example, a former Clinton Administration staffer who truly groks the netroots, or Jon Lebkowsky, who launched Extreme Democracy, of which I am a participant; likely you folks have never really heard of these people, and yet they are rockstars on their side of the divide.
So is Lisa Williams, danah boyd, Halley Suitt, Liz Lawley, again all rockstars on the other side of the divide. Lisa is the preeminent author of “how to podcast”, and danah is a go-to about social networking — and I’ll put money down that most folks here don’t know of their work. Nor does the media, yet what the media does and what it knows will be directly impacted by some of these people.
bmaz @ 101
I agree with you, but who expected Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to do such a quick, efficient 180 and backstab? They were after all supposed to be on our side. If anything useful came from all this, it is the knowledge that they aren’t.
eCAHNomics @ 119
I actually like Jose Vargas. I think he came there and really tried to understand. I think he got hustled by a bunch of people peddling misinformation that served themselves before the truth.
TiredFed @ 95
I’d love to see a convention at Berkeley Springs, WVA…
Yet another non-male blogger reporting for duty!
By the way, Jane: Re-read the first sentence in the first paragraph:
rwcole @ 120
control? or spend? jeez, I better quit now while I’m ahead (Christy is glaring at these comments, I can just feel it.)
paul @ 121
They are to the Minutemen.
Any hope legally from this diary about FISA???
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/6/144315/2247
GSD @ 102
That is what is thought until I “ran” the numbers from icasualities.org a few months ago. The Hispanic and non-Hispanic White deaths were the same as their percentage in the population. The African American deaths were less than their percentage in the population. (Maybe it has changed).
IIRC In Vietnam, African American casualties were also below the expected percentage; probably due to Racism. There was still a strong residual feeling that African Americans were not fit for combat and they were preferentially assigned to support and labor battalions.
GSD @ 97
So do I. I miss Jim Cappazolla too.
GSD @ 110
Yer on fahr, GSD!
Pam Pohly @ 105
Thank you…Although I do tend to run on.
;>)
From the WaPO piece:
So if I can take this meme to it’s (il)logical conclusion…One may extrapolate that the regular lineups of Meet The Press and all the other Sunday maypole dances are completely representative of the progressive blogosphere and its aims?…Being that their respective components mirror each other so?
Well, that’s just great.
;>)
Never confuse a reporter for Pravda by taking him “off message,” Jane.
The REAL question as far as I’m concerned is how many of the white males at the Yearly Kos were gay, and among them which ones would I want to have sex with.
Jane, thanks so much for this post. I had registered to go but family stuff prevented it at the last minute, so I’ve been feeling sorry for myself. Probably best though since everyone mentioned how expensive it was and we’re just retired teacher/artists. So glad you’re in the top blogs, you deserve it.
paul @ 121
This is true, but it reveals the troubling nature of race in general. If the choices are white, black and yellow, sure, you are correct. But what if the choices are White, Black, Brown, and Yellow?
Take a person like Obama or Tiger. Obama self identifies as Black, but Tiger does not. (His mother is Asian.) Then there are separate ethnicities whose identity is more important to the individual than his or her race, e.g. for some, being Jewish or Islamic.
Jane Hamsher @ 124
Or he has a viciously biased editor…
Margot @ 131
I teared up when Kos mentioned his passing in his closing remarks; I still have emails I exchanged with Jim from years ago. Really miss his voice.
Gee, gosh, YearlyKos cozies up to the corporate media “journamalists” by having the likes of Matt Bai host one of their top forums and this is the thanks they get. It’s just like politicians trying to fight the “Democrats are wimps” meme by moving to the right—the pre-determined story happens anyway.
As I said last night, the corporate media is a sickness that needs to be avoided, not embraced. It was an insult to bloggers and the netroots to turn over things to these assholes.
testing
Brisingamen @ 125
I’m trying to find info on what it takes to put together a convention in smaller venues. I’d like to see smaller regional gatherings as well as yearly ones. You’d be able to include more people that way. Probably be able to find better hotel and venue deals too.
I’ve got some feelers out for info,and hopefully in a few months some of this will gel.
Fed–Yeah it’s gettin warm in here- but in for a penny- in for a pound:
“Zagorsky (1999) looks at the wealth of baby boomers (born between 1957-1964) and
finds that, on average, women hold more assets than men. This is, however, strongly
affected by marital status. Unmarried men hold greater assets than unmarried women,
while the household assets of married women tend to be greater than the household assets
of married men. This is due primarily to gender differences in marriage patterns. Because
women tend to marry men who are a few years older, their households have had several
additional years in which to accumulate wealth.”
All going to show that they’ve come to just throwing shit ’till something sticks.
Brief and very recent ThinkProgress post: CREW calls for leak investigation into Boehner
petedownunder @ 94
Okay, lurkin’ and laughin’.
Aging white female blogger. In search of feet not seen since aging white belly pooched out. Loves long walks around convoluted legislation. Loves bubbly wine, one glass of which knocks her on her ample arse. Rails and rants every time a Repub opens its mouth. Seeking same.
Steve,
I am not talking about Latinos or Hispanics suffering disproportionately.
I am merely wondering if many who serve hear the anti-immigrant and often openly anti-Latino rhetoric and think to themselves, I am fighting for these assholes?
-GSD
My sense is that Kos is what he says he is… getting dems elected. He wants to be taken seriously by the dems and he has managed that. Good on him.
But he no progressive.
I think the progressives need their own far out convention where nothing if off the table.
I think that the YK thing may have peaked and progressives aren’t going to run off to that again.
I’m probably wrong.
Phoenix Woman @ 128
Not really sure what that means, but 48% of people in the 2000 Census who considered themselves Hispanic indicated they were of One Race, White.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/cenbr01-1.pdf
BigMitch @ 118
Don’t know – you’ll have to call the Vocabulary Police.
dusty59 @ 141
If the WaPo wanted to talk about who the left blogosphere is in a responsible fashion they might have talked about it in any number of interesting and fruitful ways. The whole frame of it, whether Vargas was mislead or not, indicates an attack on supposed hypocrisy of the left. I am unaware of anyone claiming the leftwing blogs were a perfect rainbow of diversity. Compared to the right, the left is doing a fantastic job of bringing more people into the blogosphere and, as must be remembered, its still a very young form of commnunication. The whole piece says hit job, not informative or investigative journalism.
anangryoldbroad @ 139
I love this idea: what about quarterly or every other month regionals in a different part of the country each time? It might be more logistically do-able if the country was geographically divvies 4-6 ways. Would be less in transport costs and perhaps you could investigate the university education-based hostel system.
Rayne @ 137
Oh Rayne, so do I.
Shumer up on Randi Rhodes
Raw Story: Watchdog calls for probe of Minority Leader for alleged intel leak
Sparkles the Iguana @ 147
This is where I prefer the Hawaiian term, “hapa”.
It means half, and originally meant half-Hawaiian, but now generally means not 100% of anything.
I’m a hapa girl, even if I’m a Heinz 57 collection of ethnicity.
Hugh @ 123
I can certainly agree with that. But, to do a take on Monty Python, if you expect the Spanish Inquisition, then you are not fooled by it. We were taken to the cleaners at the very moment we were BEST situated to avoid it in our short internet history; yet we still reek of GOP/Bush cleaning solution.
Gee Whiz, this is the blogosphere. Computers. Internet. Sound familiar? Why do we need to have everyone in one place? Why not have virtual conventions periodically, and one main convention per annum.
Okay, battery’s running out and it’s almost time to get on the plane, so I’m going to switch back to Harry Potter and I’ll see you guys (and I mean that in a totally non-white-male sense) later!
BigMitch @ 155
And/or regional conventions, connected via video.
OT–Here is the letter I just sent to my new “progressive democrat” US Senator Amy Klobuchar, who voted FOR the new FISA rules…
Senator Klobuchar,
I cannot express how deeply disappointed I am in your vote to allow Attorney General Gonzales, the most corrupt Attorney General in the nation’s history, the authority to approve wiretaps on any US person with no judicial review or warrant.
This has to be one of the most unconstitutional acts ever passed by congress, and to think that my new “progressive” senator from Minnesota supported the bill makes my stomach turn and blood boil.
The issue that helped elect you and so many of your Democratic colleagues last fall was the hope that you would stand up to the madness that the Bush Administration has been peddling for the past six years. And here, on a central issue of individual liberty and rule of law, you bent to the will of Karl Rove and George Bush.
If it is possible to reverse this democracy-shredding law, I would hope to see your name as a primary sponsor.
Please, Senator Klobuchar, stand up for liberty. Stand up against tyranny in our beloved country. Find some of the courage that your predecessor and friend Paul Wellstone had, and oppose the further militarization and “Stasi-fication” of our great democracy.
Thank you,
Sincerely, DocRoss
Minneapolis
rwcole @ 140
RW –
I think we’re both right.
I’m not an economist, nor do I play one on television. Nor am I a sociologist. So I know I’m on somewhat shaky ground when I said:
What I meant wasn’t simply household income or wealth, but the ability to make decisions on where to spend an organizations’ capital for development. I don’t think that the amount of influence women’s have w/r/t decision making for business spending have caught up yet with the amount of influence men have.
Ditto, got to run, the nine-year-old wants to hit the beach while the surf is up on the Greatest of Lakes. But I’ll check back to see what you folks are continuing to say about this topic.
Speaking of people of color and people of the female gender – I’m looking to add some voices at http://www.everydaycitizen.com – if you guys know of anybody who is looking for a new (free) or additional (and free) blogging home – have them drop me a note at pjpohly at yahoo dot com.
Would like to increase diversity at http://www.everydaycitizen.com – so diverse citizens…. write to me.
Rayne @ 153
We called a former employee of mine, also Heinz, the “man of the future” because, well, we hoped he was. His wedding, attended by all 12 siblings, was a panoply of heritages — all absolutely stunning, in completely differently ways.
BigMitch @ 155
Excellent point, and perhaps it could be done both ways. I think there is value in meeting and speaking to people directly – for nonverbal communication, putting spoken voice to written voice, being able to dialog in real time beyond the limits of solely written conversation – and in getting groups of people together for conversations that aren’t in a one at a time comment linear fashion.
DocRoss @ 158
Dear DocRoss,
Thank you for writing to share your concern(s) with me. It is always heartening to hear from my constituent(s).
Please be assured that your input is very important.
Have a good day.
Amy K.
Just a reminder folks. Please pick one name and stick with it. Thanks!
scory
Probably true- but changing rapidly. The changes since- say- 1970 have been incredible!
Spending the company’s money may be amusing- but it’s not as much fun as spending your own.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 106
I’ve read that “Aryan” simply means people that originated in the Indian subcontinent and not a blond, blue-eyed master race.
BigMitch @ 156
We use Wimba for all kinds of online meetings.
DocRoss — great letter; I would move it to the top of the Senator’s Must Read stack were I her staffer. You write eloquently of your disappointment and hope at the same time.
BigMitch @ 155
The social gathering element…The medium of communication hasn’t rendered all participants pathologically adverse to in-person human contact, yet.
;>)
That said, there might be much to recommend multiple simultaneous regional ‘cons’ (perhaps with a central hub, depending on connectivity).
I’m guessing Jay Carney stayed at the Drake.
puppethead @ 167
I’ll bet the brotherhood would be upset about that.
GSD @ 145
I agree. My impression from reading and hearing the casualty lists, was that Hispanics were disproportionately affected.
could FDL have its own convention?
Twain @ 172
If I’m not mistaken, I believe Persians (aka Iranians) and some Indians (not Native Americans) are technically the “Aryan” races. Not very blue-eyed and blond-haired at all.
That’s got to get some panties (or in this case white hoods) in a bunch.
BigMitch @ 156
You have to go to one of these to realize how valuable it was rubbing elbows with blogmates. Had to be there.
No master race? Yikes- next yer gonna try ta tell us that there ain’t no Santy Claws!
BigMitch @ 156
Because Mitch,meeting people in real life makes real life community. I love the internet,but frankly,I need community outside this box with a screen attached. Virtual reality is fine,but I need real world interaction too,that is sorely missing in many parts of the country.
It’s time to reclaim that.
yellowdog jim @ 174
Any percentage in considering a college venue? For example, Macalester College in St. Paul and Carleton College (where Paul Wellstone taught) in Northfield are liberal schools that probably host outside events during the summer.
puppethead @ 168
Notice how closely the name of the country Iran is to Aryan.
-GSD
Also, I have two nephews of bi-racial lineage. Caucasian-American and Black-Jamaican.
They call themselves Jamerican. Also the term mixed race is applicable. I don’t think mulattoe is offensive as it is just outdated.
RW was talking about funny terms, African-Americans have a term for real light skinned blacks called “high-yellow” or “hi-yella”. That one always gets me smiling.
OT:
After 4 hours of trying to call Difi, I finally got in touch with her SF office. Seems she isn’t up for telling us why she voted to revoke the 4th amendment. In the next few days she’ll be releasing a statment. I asked the staffer about Difi’s public appearances, which are NOT being released. Asked why they would need to hide the Senator from her constituents? The answer was dead silence.
TeddySanFran @ 170
Thanks! I wish I didn’t have to.
One of my treasured possessions is a letter I received from Senator Wellstone the day before his tragic death in 2002. I had written to him praising his stand against the Iraq authorization in the middle of a tough re-election campaign. We need more people with Paul’s courage to speak up and speak out.
That’s why I like coming here! It’s a great place to get inspired.
DocRoss @ 159
GSD
Yeah- not to mention “grey dudes”.
scory @ 159
The real reason you are on shakey ground is that while middle aged men control the largest amount of money in the U.S. they are not the most sought after demographic. Middle aged whilte men tend to have already developed their brand loyalties, and the money that they have to control is not subject to advertising influences as much as 19-23 year old males. N=1 @ 163
And for fun. So think of ten regional conventions, linked into one virtual. However, as I said last night, it should be understood from the giddy-up that if the big annual convention doesn’t end with a march to the White House it is a failure. (For which reason it must be held in Wash. D. C.)
N=1 @ 149
There are a few cities that have both Southwest Airlines and the new Skybus Airline in common: Columbus, OH, Kansas City, MO (or KS?), Jacksonville, FL and Ft. Lauderdale, FL., plus several in Cali and the NW. Pick the right time of the year, any of these towns could host a lower cost (including avg transportation costs) convention. However, I really like the idea of a WVA summit – maybe at WVU in the summer?
Sparkles the Iguana @ 148
Words don’t mean, people do.
(omg, my son is down the street at his best friend’s house. JJ’s mother is white and father is black. Is he a mulatto? Should I be worried?)
GSD @ 181
Yea and the brothers called us, “chucks, mr. charles, ofay’s, t-shirts and honky ass motherfuckers. . .I always like the last one best!
Waxman just released the DOJ response: “This responds to your letter, dated April 26,2007, which requested information and supporting documents in connection with the Committee’s oversight inquiry regarding political briefings pertaining to elections or candidates provided to Department of Justice employees by officials in the White House between January 20, 2001, and April 26,2007.” Forgot – it’s a pdf document.
Notice how closely the name of the country Iran is to Aryan.
That’s not a coincidence…
demi @ 188
Yes. Maybe they are looking at porn.
barbara @ 180
I’d like that very much. College campuses are so much nicer for meetings than hotels.
barbara @ 165
Ha ha ha! Thanks Barbara! That’s nearly the same automated message I just got!
just a quick drive by to say,
thank you, Jane.
it’s just part of the MSM strategy to twist the truth. You are the model for bloggers all over this country and large parts of the rest of the world. Fred Hiatt feels your presence, So does Joe Lieberman and Scooter Libby, and Chick Daney and the Shrub, and Karl and a hell of a lot of other people that resent what you have been able to accomplish over the past two years. consider it a bit like being on Nixon’s “enemies list”, another indication of your value in the national discourse.
i haven’t read the comments and have to leave now but i just want to say one other thing:
Steve Gilliard
An African American and a prophet in his own country as well as an extraordinary blogger.
Another secret Cunningham-related hearing:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003868.php
Thhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuh Yankeesssssss WIN!!!!!
Mariano Rivera strikes out the side in the bottom of the 9th to save a 5-4 win for Pettit. With this win, the Yankees move into a tie for first place in the Wild Card standings.
No more sports comments from me. (today)
eCAHNomics @ 113
Lest we also forget, the bomb was first used in anger sixty-two years ago today.
Was David Broder at the convention?
DocRoss @ 193
And now you’re feeling special, right? *g* But we keep trying. I bought 100 postage paid postcards today. I’m gonna keep at this contacting legislators dealie until they pry my terrible swift pen out of my cold, dead hand.
Some colleges are into hosting outside quasi educational events- but you may not get AV assistance, a bar , flexible conference seating, configured rooms for break out sessions, etc.
Asilimar in California is run by the state and does conferences in a BEAUTIFUL setting- I’ve used them in the past.
Well I need to pack it in for the day. I’m new here, but I’d like to reiterate again how thankful I am to have found a place with such great information and insights.
Since I live on a farm, I already have a pitch fork so just let me know when we’re marching — but give me enough time to find a torch. ;-)
Well I guess that’s the trick by labelling the blogs as white and male. If you take a look at the pundits, policy makers, thinktankers, and party organizers in DLC and RNC, you’ll see all or mostly white males.
So, I don’t know why anyone would try to lie about the Yearly Kos convention by labelling bloggers generally as white and male. I believe that it is the majority -BUT- I also believe that it is more diverse than any of the groups I mentioned above.
The diversity is great because I get the chance to look at other issues that I would not normally care about. For example, immigration, reproductive rights, civil unions – I wouldn’t care either way how these split unless I hear from those who are directly affected by these issues. That’s what makes me support more humane immigration laws, more humane reproductive rights, and legal civil unions, amongst all the other topics that come up here on FDL. Without hearing first-hand about these, I would probably be just another guy who is apathetic to the suffering or prejudices inflicting on others. I just wouldn’t care about shitty mine regulations which are easily ignored in W. Virginia or Utah. I just wouldn’t care about Stem Cells and their possibility to heal Alzeihmers and other brain degenerative diseases. I would care much less about teachers unions, or poverty, or prison system that’s for sure.
But when I know someone who is affected by the myriad of issues mentioned above, I do care. If these things affected my friends and family, I would care. That’s the strength of the blogs. It gives readers a window to look through on many issues I would never care about. I care about them because they do affect friends. (even if they are just online friends).
And I wonder if that’s all it takes to pull the progressive movement in the right direction, is first-hand accounts, and people affected by George Bush’s fucked up policies. It opens eyes. And that’s what we need to get out of the gutter that the Republican party wants us to be in.
Suzanne, clean-up in aisle 197…
Sparkles the Iguana @ 192
Har Har. It could be worse, they could be here. Oh, that’s right, they did yesterday at my house. :o
mack @ 18
Huh.
Isn’t being heard a requisite for stardom?
What does that make Digby? Or Arianna Huffington? Ferpetesakes, you can’t get much more “rock star” than Arianna. What male blogger gets the treatment she does? For example, doesn’t she have a regular spot on “Left, Right and Center”? Isn’t she often on other “news” shows? Another MSM ignoramus, ISTM. And Jane, you’re getting the cred most people would be delighted to have!
Bob in HI
BigMitch @ 196
I sure hope so. (an eternal Red Sox fan).
SufiLizard @ 201
I’m an irregular regular, in a manner of speaking. But let me be first, second, third, ??? to say, welcome to FDL. It’s like a life raft, isn’t it?!
Nicholas at DiFi’s SF office just read me her statement about her FISA vote. Lotsa “intelligence community needs tools,” “gaps in our intelligence-gathering capabilities,” and “Nine-Eleven.”
Her statement’s up at her website as well.
Who ARE these STARS anyways- an how do ya get their autographs?
BigMitch @ 155
Possibly cheaper to do it live – DSL/cable is expensive, and setting it up as an online/telephone thing adds to the cost and complexity. Monthly at city/county level, quarterly or every six months at state/regional level might be more than enough. Too often, and you’re spending more time organizing than anything else (and it takes a lot of time to put together and run one).
For example:
Most science fiction conventions are once a year, and the planning starts two to four years before the event, even for those that are ’small’ (no more than a thousand or so people).
You set up a tentative date so you can gat the hotel rooms and function space reserved ahead of time. (Get enough rooms reserved for you, and they’ll charge less for the space.)
You plan the schedule, with alternates in mind for stuff that doesn’t pan out, or people who have to cancel.
You arrange for the tables and chairs and projectors of whatever kind.
You arrange for food and drinks for all the people who will have to work there to keep it running, as well as for the panelists.
You arrange for nametags and program schedules to be printed, beforehand or onsite. You also consider a daily newsletter to announce changes to the schedule.
You arrange for people to handle membership sales onsite – people always show up at the last minute and want to join. This means money-handling has to be taken care of.
You pray the hotel manager doesn’t get replaced by someone who doesn’t want you around.
You pray you have enough volunteers (gofers) to keep things running.
You pray your most prominent guests don’t have to cancel.
All that is before the doors open.
(Why you have a committee and not one person handling this. You need a ’speaker to hotels’, for sure.)
Sparkles the Iguana @ 199
This was his weekend to sit on the porch and eat quail wings with his good friend Karl Rove.
Then he was gonna shoo the kids off his lawn.
-GSD
dakine01 @ 198
Yea, well the Japanese government seem to want or forget it along with the rape of Nanking and numerous other atrocities:
Off-season, *some* State and National Parks are a good deal too. I know of one Science Fiction convention that is held at Mammoth Cave, Kentucky in the very early Spring.
Columbus, Ohio IS NOT CHEAP* — I help run a small SF music convention here, and we’re now having to book 2 years in advance.
*Chicago is more expensive, but Columbus is a convention town as well, OVFF’s rack rate in the ‘burbs is $99 for up to 4 occupants.
How can we forget that all the bloggers are also 18 year-olds, and uncivil? Facts be damned, there’s your angle!
TeddySanFran @ 208
damn. she DIDN’T read it. there’s a provision to permit warrantless wiretapping for up to a year beyond the sunset date. so it really is in effect for up to 18 months (or right up to inauguration day).
rwcole @ 201
AV & conference rooms (i.e., classrooms) should be easy when college isn’t in session. As for bars, did you ever know a college town without them? You may have to walk off campus to imbibe, but many bars will rent themselves out for group functions when school isn’t in session.
GSD @ 62
Yes, I am in charge.
TeddySanFran @ 209
So DiFi makes the Goopers case for them. Thanks Di…
Thanks Teddy.
Raven, Abe, the rightwing asshat running Japan is having some troubles these days.
He wants to relive the glory days of the empire and get the miltary back up to imperial snuff.
Chimpy would be glad to have a third member of the axis.
-GSD
TiredFed @ 215
She is soooo full of it.
Brisingamen @ 213
What about Akron? University of Akron, Cuyahoga Valley National Park – both Cleveland Hopkins and Akron Canton Airports?????
scarecrow @ 218
I kinda like the idea of being a mythical creature myself.
mack @ 222
Sonce when are scarecrows white men????????
TiredFed @ 216
Sounds like she just took the DNI’s “word” for it. He said “Bugga, bugga, and she said okay”.
LS @ 129
LS
Cahn
Yeah- maybe- but I’d hate to be the one to try em for the first time- it could be a disaster.
fahrender @ 195
Steve Gilliard represented what the inside the beltway crowd calls “diversity.” You have to understand beltwayspeak. “Diversity” means Blacks. If you ain’t got no Blacks, you ain’t got no diversity. End of thought. End of discussion. Steve gave us a bit of cred on diversity, and we need more like him.
Bob in HI
From Chimpy’s statement today:
looseheadprop @ 226
Is that LS don’t be silly…or LS something else?
N=1 @ 224
It must be true. I read it in the Washington Post.
Speaking of regional conferences (i.e. around 100 attendees max) at college campuses, I could check out SUNY-New Paltz for a NE one. I was on the Foundation Board for 6 years. It’s 85 miles north of NYC, 75 miles south of Albany; nearest AP is Stewart at Newburgh.
Chimpy McHuckster must HATE DIFI to thank her like that in public- he knows it’s the kiss of death.
Anchorage Alaska, the air hub of the world is trying to make its bones as a convention city.
But, I repeat, it must be Washington D.C. so we can conclude with a march on Washington.
Rayne, Thanks for the Blogher site…saved it. Really, thanks.
Now, go surfing.
AND
I say, let’s go camping! Y2K meets Woodstock.
It would attract a more diverse crowd. People with bucks could rent RV’s. I’ll even volunteer to put the mints under the pillows.
Although I have always had problems with sweeping generalizations of “bloggers” or “the left” I think the missing divide is not race but class/income level. It takes money and time to be able to afford access and study our countries demise.
scarecrow @ 230
You go, Virginia!
TeddySanFran @ 229
LALALALALALA I can’t HEAR YOU.
DiFi:
Damn.
N=1 @ 220
Not familiar with the hotels in that area. You do not want a con in an airport hotel — too much chance of upseting the folks who are trying to sleep.
I’ve been to a couple of cons based out of Universities and they don’t seem to be as good at fostering contact between attendees (IMVHO).
rwcole @ 227
It could be a disaster only if the planning were not done properly. What else could make it turn out badly?
LS @ 224
sounds like they all heard the same thing and are sticking to their story. Webb said this. So did Mikulski. What do you suppose they heard?
rwcole @ 232
dang. he didn’t even buy her dinner, like he did for Nancy. cheap date I guess.
Bob Schacht @ 228
Pam
Oliver
Terrance
None are Steve, but all are black.
eCAHNomics @ 240
Wait! Wait!! We should have it in Minneapolis/St. Paul, right after the Republican convention. We could get a discounted rate for offering to clean up all the elephant shit. No, really!
CAHN
“what else could make it turn out badly”
Yikes- I was VP of training for years for a couple of companies—there are thousands of things that can go wrong- BADLY wrong- and most of em have happened.
GSD @ 220
I hear ya. I don’t know, my old man spent 4 years on a tin can in the pacific and they were at Okinawa ready to invade when we dropped the bomb. I imagine that I’m not the only FDLer who very well wouldn’t be here if we had to run a ground invasion of the mainland. Maybe we shouldn’t have dropped the second one but damn, it sure seemed like they needed convincing.
newtonusr @ 239
The dishonesty never stops, does it?
TeddySanFran @ 229
How much more of this “strong leadership” can America stand?
‘Bipartisan’? Is that code for something unsavory?
BigMitch @ 233
I hear there’s gonna be a big march on 9/15.
TiredFed @ 242
They were told something very, very scary. IMHO
TiredFed @ 242
Excerpts from their own NSA file.
Obviously I get the point, but the whole thing is largely a language game rather than anything to do with reality — started, in this case, by that wretched reporter. If there was ever a democratic medium of communication, it is the Internet. People whose careers depend on highly stratified power structures apparently just don’t understand the blog world. But the category “white males” is so broad and abstract as to have virtually no real meaning. He made a completely ridiculous claim, and you feel have to defend it. So he won. He made a non-issue into an issue.
rwcole @ 246
I bow to your superior knowledge.
barbara @ 244
Twin Cities during the RNC convention! In case nobody has noticed, I want to get confrontational with Re-thugs.
LS @ 250
But how would spying on us help? I just hate the idea of peeking in people’s windows.
LS @ 250
But why did the rest of the Dems vote against it? Full circle. Mobius time.
The Republicans are pushing the envelope. And so is my party.
Gore.
TeddySanFran @ 252
BINGO! LOL!
TiredFed @ 242
pre 9-11 chatter was ignored
boom
bad stuff
you don’t want to be responsible
of course the problem is that there was too much friggin information and no one listening before 9-11
so i don’t see how adding to the noise levels could make us safer
unless the unmentionable part is the data mining component
and even then, the ‘miner’ has to have a clue what they are looking for
BAH
scary shiny thing over there
hand over your privacy so we can protect you from a handfull of bad men
LS @ 250
Alright. I’ll put on my tin-foil hat here. They were threatened with another terror event that the GOP aka the MSM would have dropped directly into the Dem’s lap. Call me paranoid, but I believe it.
TeddySanFran @ 251
I’ll go with LS @250. You can’t scare Barb with her own NSA file.
A friend just emailed my this Reuters article off the website, so I don’t have the url. But doesn’t seem too OT:
barbara @ 180
Most colleges that have dorms use those empty rooms to host conferences in the summers.
If you go to the webpage of many residential unversities you will often see a tab for the “convetion/conference center”.
I have atteneded a number of such evenets for academic realted conferences, but have also gone to rugby referee schools and rugby coahing schools held at MIT, and other colleges in the North East.
Dpending on your travel hub proximity, I suspect that by tapping into use of college confence center faciites (including the very cheap dorm room stays)it would be possible to bring the price down considerably.
It’s just coming out that a part of this legislation was being pushed by telecom companies who wanted immunity- so a natural thing to do is to look at each “aye” voting senators contributor’s list to see which telecom companies are on it. Start with DiFi.
They heard the equivalent of “the evidence may come in the form of a mushroom cloud”.
It is another sales pitch.
-GSD
The Democrats have Democratic voters in trap. And this house of duo Dems are disgusted. Worse. Angry!
scarecrow @ 247
We don’t know what the FISA Court review will be. Will it be review of individual cases? Or review of the process every month?
The most blatant proof that “the dishonesty never stops” is the fact that the current “temporary” legislation contains amnesty for past violations by administration officials. Why was that needed on an emergency basis? (Source: NPR)
eCAHNomics @ 263
Angry men get ahead while angry women penalized: study
mack @ 260
In my calls to D sentors who voted for it, I said that I live in Manhattan, and am not afraid of terrorists. Of course, we should do everything legal to apprehend them, but there is not a scintilla of evidence that what is authorized by the legislation has any bearing on catching terrorists. And the Ds should stop caving in to President Bush’s fearmongering on terrorism, or they’ll lose the next election.
The first time I voted for Diane Feinstein she was running for mayor of the City. That was the first of many votes I cast for Feinstein. Perhaps Senator Feinstein has outlived her usefulness.
DocRoss@158…good letter! Hope she reads it, and regrets what she did.
looseheadprop @ 263
Years ago, I went to a national conference at a monastery in (or near) Kentucky, where the monks made their own beer. Think creatively! Just sayin’.
LS @ 196
my bet: CIA/Mob
retirin’ in five @ 261
I think they were told that there is credible chatter of something potentially really bad, and I think they were selectively told and others were told something like, I can’t tell you what it is, but you must vote for it now. It is necessary to get access to Americans…something like that. Pelosi may have agreed to take the fall during her dinner with W, who knows.
eCAHNomics ,
ding!
The whole ’scary terrorists’ meme just pisses me off.
“Terrorists’ are by definition operating from a position of weakness.
Pissing on the constitution is a weak and ineffective response.
Sort of what you would expect from an Administration whose role models for macho are the Village People.
twolf1 @ 269
Thanks for the link. As I told my friend, they could write this article 1/qtr til the end of time & it’d still be true.
Makes me really angry (she said). *g*
TeddySanFran @ 229
I swear to f’ing dog she is almost as bad as Lieberman.
new thread from Jane upstairs…
LS @ 230
LS, I will take a quick stab at your question. Theoretically, yes it is a pathway, but not a likely one. Even if Congress legislated standing, I am not sure there is a cognizable question or controversy that could get beyond a Rule 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss because there is still no way to prove you, the plaintiff, were specifically harmed. More importantly, why would our leaders have the guts to do this when they could have solved the problem just by saying “Hey, not so fast, let’s think about this before we act”.
eCAHNomics @ 277
me, too
mack @ 276
Sounds like its time for this again (let me know when I’ve posted this too often):
barbara @ 180
i dream of a forward thinking journalism school which is blog-interested, but not blog hostile which would want to host a campus-based convening of academe and internet based news analyses.
UT Austin hosts conventions with housing, food services and multimedia accommodations.
i suspect many other colleges do also.
looseheadprop @ 264
exactly what i said, only better and sooner.
thanks
dakine01 @ 198
I don’t agree. It was a horrible thing, but I don’t think it was done in anger. The number of warnings that were given, the fierceness of the battles that preceeded Hiroshima are easily forgotten. The alternative was an invasion of the Japan itself. The casualties would have been quite stunning, possibly even exceeding the casualties at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Truman made a decision. It was calculated, and measured, but not done in anger.
I won’t comment on the morality aspect.
rwcole @ 265
Ding! Ding! Ding!
bmaz @ 280
Thanks for taking a look at it.
There are a lot of lurkers who inhabit the blogs . I attended the convention in Vegas and got a lot out of it.
Drat, I couldn’t afford to go to Chicago this year.
I do hope that we “lurkers” aren’t going to be left out of the network nation organization. I am 76, so do not blog because there are so many posters more articulate than I, but I get most of my news from blogs, so I do not want to be left out.
marjo @ 56
rwcole @ 233
Hey, she stood up for RG Joe. It’s just his little way of showing appreciation. More fearful symmetry ……
raven @ 247
the second was dropped because they didn’t believe what had happened. they still weren’t willing to surrender. the second one convinced enough of the leadership to surrender. even then there were holdouts. Hirohito had to speak before they would comply (He was still considered, literally, divine, at the time.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 258
John Edwards.
Twain @ 24
Ditto. I’d even settle for 50ish!
Might I ask whether they have any white guys over there at WaPo?
You are missing the point. The fact that Markos is half Hispanic does not make DKos a forum for discussion of issues of interest to most Hispanics. See my comment in DKos
I’m deeply EPUed trying to get settled after YK, but this post is right on the money. And the session pictured here, which I was kinda watching as we streamed it into YKSL while I was monitoring the stream of the CLinton breakout session was great.
I caught up, luckily, with Taylor the next day. Weirdly, I think that while they disagree strongly, both digby and Taylor are right in that discussion.
I’m writing a post, and I’ll put it somewhere.
But, iac, Jane is of course correct. In my view, the netroots diversity need is not in the area of racial minorities, but in pursuit of labor. The teamsters barbeque, SEIU and the CWA presence are all indications that we can find common ground.
the right wing media will paint the liberal blogosphere however it wants without regard to consistency or the truth.
i’ll believe the article is in good faith as soon as i see the comparison to the number of attendees at CPAC who were people of color. i’ll believe it’s in good faith as soon as i see their article on how many young people, women, seniors, people of color, and gays and lesbians go to anti-war protests, and why Yearly Kos may miss part of that audience (is it just the price of travel/hotel, or are there other factors?). until a serious claim is made, the only possible conclusion is that it’s just a smear.
The article mentioned a panel that I was on and we very pointedly said that women were in abundance at the conference and in the blogosphere. We were talking about attempts to silence female voices, but it was well-noted that said attempts were largely unsuccessful.
C’mon, Jane, secretly in your heart you know you and all your non-straight-white-male blogger buddies are actually straight white males. The wise critics of the Right and the MSM just know how to look into your hearts — which means they look into their own hearts and never have really looked out of them.
Thanks for adding that, Amanda.
Excellent post, Jane. I attended the BlogHer conference the weekend before, and both conferences were different from what I was expecting. I will definitely be back!
BAC
Hi
Because it is expensive why not put a pool of money together for bloggers that don’t have the money. If I can give money to thelocal criminal to run for office, I sure won’t mind $25 in to pool of funds. Then have a lottery to go and you go every other year.
I would like to say thanks to the sites that have provide sites that look at life from different set of eyes, it always a good thing to invite and listen to as many as possible to build trust. As everyone found out this weekend this not going to be won over night and even with a win there not resting. There lurking in the night waiting for an opening.
jo6pac
Don’t forget to find your congressperson this month to let them know that your watching them. Great Idea Christy & Thanks Jane
lurking every day since the libby trial; you people at firedoglake
opened my eyes to what is really going on and what a person can do at her own local level::: dr. maryam was brilliant when she guested from paris, and i sent her comments to all the health care professionals i know in canada.
Jane, this blog is terrific and i constantly email it to other canadians to show that there are americans who care what is happening in the world and who are actively working to change things for the better.
valincanada.
For me, the issue is not about whether the A bloggers are dominated by white males but rather they are hopelessly moderate political players. My guess is like everyone else in the media they are trying to or think they are, appealing to the broadest readership.
An element of this might also be that they come from the same social economic strata. I am guessing here.
Whatever the reason, maybe someone can explain why there is not one liberal A blogger. Sure labels like progressive are thrown around but that covers everyone from Webb to Feingold which is quite a reach. Billmon was in the liberal tradition and surely missed.
When arguably a majority of Americans support a liberal platform and in a recent poll some 40% of Democrats identified themselves as liberal, a huge increase, we still find mostly moderate “Clinton Democrats” in the A Blog list.
As evidence, even putting aside Kucinich’s looks, his personal beliefs that Kos loves to ridicule, his platform represents a liberal perspective and he is widely dismissed among the A bloggers.
I would also submit that A bloggers really believe what the MSM tries to tell us that if you back the liberal platform you will be viewed as leftist and we know that would kill business– right?
BigMitch @ 118
They are still acceptable in Latin America, so I would say that are still acceptable.
Thank you for this intriguing post. I read mostly Open Left, and some of this view is not shared there. It seems that place has more people on the left who do not feel part of the virtual left.
Anyhow, I am interested in trying to gain exposure for a site called Plural Politics that I, a Muslim-American, and a few other individuals of various ethnicities and economic backgrounds, are trying to launch.
This is the about page (which is still being debated and tweaked).
I will be honest and say that many of the people who are coming into our (very new and very small) blog feel very burned and on the outside. This doesn’t necessarily include me due to my affiliation with Huff-Po, but many readers of all various races and, I have noticed, religious identities. It seems that Street Prophets is just not enough.
One of the technological things I’ll be integrating is a new way of *sharing* traffic with the long tail of bloggers. That should be up this week. I am sorry, but this is something that none of the big boys and girls do. When I write at Huff-Po, I don’t either. The cycle has to be broken at some point.
I would definintely prefer learning from these guys than assailing them. I hope they’ll be willing to teach/mentor/guide/share with those of us who don’t have access to the resources and especially technical knowledge. I want to learn more about successfully developing, promoting and MONETIZING my blog so I can write and research and network on a full time basis like the most successful ones do.
They’ve (and you’ve and others have) helped create a new progressive movement with fantastic grassroots momentum and well-informed, connected, critical, educated voices. I’m not ready to be manipulated by others into having a melt down into OLD, angry (sometimes useful but limited) beliefs and behaviors that were part of a long ongoing-struggle – a movement’s necessary growth and developmental process but which we do not need to resort to again out of fear and manipulation.
This is a new stage of a social justice, particpatory democracy movement — these guys have helped jumpstart and infuse it with some great tools, energy, analysis, talent, brains, and compassionate hearts too.
Unless those guys are the same old knuckledraggers of old (and frankly I simply don’t see a lot of evidence of that), Let’s work together instead of letting the rightwing agenda of any person, group, special interest including MSM fragment us. Can some of them stand to be more enlightened? Sure, but they are not the enemy. We must unite, not allow ourselves to be divided.
The middle-agedness I can partly understand in terms of the long time and life experience it ordinarily takes to be able to frame arguments in a way that people will want to listen to. My experience with 20-somethings is that they do not yet have much to say.
Woodhall Hollow @ 10
That’s good. I’m older than the hills, and in some photos taken recently at a relative’s wedding, I looked even older. But here I am bright as day … or … oh, well, here I am anyway.
And I’m not middle aged either, just old!
I suspect your reporter were looking at the audience and not at who was actually on stage presenting.
And, yes, that he failed to distinguish between “anyone who had once posted something on the internet somewhere” and an actual blogger.
In terms of attendees, though, the audience is going to be shaped in large part by:
1. Disposable income (so, attendees skew wealthier)
2. The ability to take time off from work (so, attendees skew older as retirees have more free time). Having YK during the summer made it possible for more students to attend, though I’d guess that, of those that did, it skewed somewhat to students in the Chicago area or those that could drive/take public transportation in from further out and crash with friend)
3. For those who have the time/interest/disposable income, it’s still going to be a question of where that $$ goes. Maybe you’re the mother of 2 and you’d have loved to go to YK. But, if you had to justify the costs to your family, I think the “family trip versus Mom goes solo to a political conference” (or even “family trip to Disney World versus entire family goes to Chicago”) some of the time it’s going to come down on “family vacation.”
I attended a Take Back America conference (in 2003, I think it was) and then YK last year.
YK last year drew larger numbers overall, I think, and did much better in drawing a wider age range, and slightly better in drawing a wider demographic mix, than did TBA in 2003. Which is comparing apples to oranges, but, there you are.
First, let me say that this post is my second ever here at the FDL. Consequently, I arrived today, via Digby, and did so in the interest of responding to Ezra Klein over at Tapped. He has an item up, and I was curious to see and read what those who attended had to say as their first-hand experience. And I’m impressed by those who have posted to this thread.
Unfortunately, I have not read much if anything having to do with the panel of Progressives and the Military. As such, I am the “preacher” for the Cactus Juice Commentaries, and an expert on one-sided conversations. At our web site of the Chicano Veterans Organization, you will find our punditry directed to a large number of military vets and on all matters reflecting the “arts and sciences” of human interaction, from foreign policy to fiscal discipline.
Of course, this post is not a marketing “plug” but an acknowledgment for recognizing the quality of FDL, Digby, and Tapped. Thus, my salute to the FDL for a difficult job done well.
Respectfully Submitted.
Jaango
I’m writing this pretty long after this entry was posted, but something you said really caught my attention. If the folks who put together yearly kos know who they WANT their audience to be (i.e., if they want bloggers to attend), why don’t they schedule the event in a more affordable place, make more deals and offer more options for housing, etc.?
I can remember going to political events years ago and staying at people’s houses, for instance. There was a lot of organizing about where to put people and how to feed them.
If the concern is that yearly kos be a “legitimate” convention, choosing Vegas wasn’t a bad idea because nearly everyone can get a good deal there. Choosing Chicago is a terrible idea — it may be centrally located, but it is expensive as hell. Why not Minneapolis, or Madison Wisconsin, or even Cleveland, St. Louis, etc., etc. Everywhere you go there are excellent hotel, convention complexes right near major airports, and many of them are much less expensive than the bigger cities, even today.
I guess it depends upon who they REALLY want at the show.
Hey Jaango,
Nice to meet you and welcome to the Lake! Hope to hear from you often.
Come on up to the current thread where most of us are, ok?