Michael Tomasky notes in a Sunday Washington Post op ed that in the recently ended Yearly Kos convention, there was not a single panel dedicated to the question of impeaching President Bush and Vice President Cheney, a fact that would likely astonish those in the media who might have thought impeachment would be the first item of discussion if not the only one. Tomasky goes on to argue that attempting impeachment would be the worst mistake Democrats could make, because it would split the country, convince the public that Democrats were vindictive partisans and undermine their otherwise excellent chances of substantial gains in the 2008 elections.
Although I believe the Democrats would be in a much stronger position today, and better able to stand up to Bush if they had initiated an impeachment investigation months ago, I’m not really up for arguing with Tomasky about impeachment now, given that the Democrats have allowed their substantial momentum coming out of the 2006 elections to dissipate and then virtually destroyed their credibility this weekend by shamelessly cowering before Bush on the FISA vote. That vote shows that about 41 Democrats in the House and 16 in the Senate don’t have the courage or self respect to blow their own noses without asking George Bush’s permission. The notion that these pathetic sheep might have the courage and wisdom to use an impeachment proceeding to fight for the Bill of Rights and Congressional prerogatives under the Constitution’s separation of powers is just laughable . . . or sad.
What we know now is that we have to reestablish the fundamentals within our own party — starting with the wisdom and necessity of having a Constitution and limits on government power — before we can ask our party to exercise the mechanisms our Constitution gave us for correcting egregiously unconstitutional behavior. Quite simply, many members of our party need a civics lesson, and quickly. We’re talking about grade school stuff, here, followed by accelerated progress into graduate courses in American constitutional history. Too many in our own party simply don’t know why this country was founded with a Constitution and why that history is relevant today.
So while I’m not going to argue about impeachment per se, I object to Lieberman’s Tomasky’s notion that the country hungers for a return to bipartisanship in the sense that it requires the Democrats to accommodate the Republicans on the range of public policy issues now facing the country. Where has Tomasky been? That view, when applied to the extreme radicals who now dominate the Republican Party, is precisely what has hurt this country, weakened the Democratic party and turned many of them into sheep who are incapable of defending the most basic democratic principles.
The country may well feel comfortable with a healthy tension between genuine liberals and their more expansive views about the use of government to promote the public welfare, and what used to be genuine conservatives and their views about the need to preserve individual freedom and initiative. I’m not sure the latter ever existed as a controlling majority of their own party. But the problem with Tomasky’s paradigm is that there are virtually no genuine conservatives left in the Republican party. They’ve either left voluntarily and in disgust or been purged by the Monica Goodlings. Those who claim to have begun as conservatives and remained have long since been thoroughly corrupted and co-opted by the imperialist radicalism of the Cheney neocons and the seductive illusion of security of Bush’s authoritarianism. There is nothing left that is even remotely “conservative” in the traditional sense.
There is no one left on the other side with whom liberals/progressives/Democrats can honestly contend in a traditional bipartisan manner, if such a state ever existed. Moreover, what the polls seem to suggest is that the country does not want the Democrats to move towards this radical group of Republicans but rather to move the government back to the democratic values that include respect for the Constitution, respect for the legitimate role of government in the promotion of public welfare — whether in assuring health care or providing essential services or infrastructure investment — and respect for the rule of law and the courts in moving the nation towards a basic sense of fairness.
The country wants the Democrats back in power not to bargain with the radicals that now run the country but to take power out of the hands of the radicals that have abused that power and run the country into a ditch, both at home and abroad. Rather than invite the current crop of Republicans to the bargaining table, the country more likely wants them sent to their room until they grow up and stop behaving like jerks and bullies.
There is no Republican party left that has anything positive to contribute to the major corrections that must be made in the body politic. If impeachment were more plausible than it appears today, there would be powerful arguments to be made for the ability of an impeachment investigation — the process itself, if not the final outcome — to restore confidence in the Constitutional principles of separation of power, limits on governmental power versus individual liberty, and the simple notion that those who debase the Constitution should be held accountable. But in the absence of that necessary and salutary process, it is not a substitute to urge a phony bipartisanship on a system in which there is only one party (mostly) committed to the Constitution while the other bears almost no allegiance to it at all.
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Caw?
4th or 5th :)
EPU’D from downstairs.
I have a question or two :)
Obviously, The Congress is not going to stop this expanding madness.
What can be done on a State by State basis?
Can State Houses revoke/refuse federal law?
If individual States determine that the ‘Federal Government’ has overstepped its limits, can they step up to protect ‘THEIR’ people of said States?
What if every State House stood up and said ‘We ARE the People and you will no longer do this!’.
Is there a way to do this? and, If not how do we do it?
This is shameful. Truly shameful. They have squandered all of it. Perception is reality. If all Republicans and some Dems believe that the Dems are bumbling Keystone Kops, then it becomes national truth. And the Repugs know precisely how to ratchet up the rhetoric. I no longer believe that 2008 is in the Dem bag.
What would be better is not take impeachment off the table. Can Democrats muster support to do the Special Prosecutor number on Karl Rove? How risky would it be to get him in front of a Grand Jury (again) for violations of the Hatch Act?
Just sayin. This would show spine.
Tomasky’s wrong. If something is not done to emasculate these twerps, there will be no fairness in the future. They are poseurs, and only by exposing them as such will the country have even half a chance.
Otherwise, we’re just plain fucked (something I suspect the Tomaskys of the country are actually hoping will happen).
[Mod Note; Comment edited by mod. Please, no references toward violence or anything that may be perceived as such. Thank you.]
As side note, I think it’s important to emphasize the numbers 41 house members and 16 senate members. Not all of the democrats screwed this up. We do have allies, and I believe it’s important to work with them, and keep them separate from the shit list.
Agreed. Let’s deliver “pocket sized” copies of the Constitution along with a “readers guide” to the Congress critters as our next roots project.
Scarecrow, this is a stellar post! Each and every point is critically important. Thank you!
The WaPoo had a catty little write-up of YK2 in today’s issue, main point being that it was all white males.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01580.html
[Sorry, I came back to insert this link but don’t know how to make it “live.”]
montag at 5 — I am quite certain that the wall portion of your comment is not some sort of veiled violent threat. Because I know that you know better than to antagonize law enforcement officials with such a stupid maneuver as making veiled threats to public officials.
So let this serve as a reminder to everyone that such a thing is taken very, very seriously and is likely to get your ass investigated, if indeed one is stupid enough to make such threats. And that we don’t allow them at FDL. AND that it is a crappy position to put Jane and I in to have to deal with law enforcement when something like this does get investigated — so please think before you get your ass, and ours, in a bind of your own making. Thank you.
Millineryman @ 6
Quite true. But, where was the leadership on this? Where were the “nays” threatening the “yeas” with political harm if they went along with the fascists on this one?
Example @ 7
I’m not just half-serious when I suggested that every legislator should be made to successfully complete a Constitution and civics competency test prior to being eligible to make and vote on legislation.
Millineryman @ 6
I agree, but as Glenn Greenwald points out, the Dem leadership could have prevented this from going to the floor at all, and they didn’t.
When they were in the minority, you couldn’t blame them for everything forced through, though I thought they should have filibustered more.
Now, the Repubs still seem to be able to control the agenda form the minority position.
I’m sick of it.
Mauimom at 9 — Gee, I guess all of us with boobs and/or color didn’t count then, eh?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 10
Welcome home, Christy! How was your travel back? Any weather problems?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 10
Fine. Metaphorically speaking.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
My reaction exactly.
OT, for fun (we need it)
Mayor Bloomberg reported for jury duty in Manhattan this morning.
EPU’d — at the end of the last thread I wrote a long post about writing to Congress Critters, if anyone’s interested.
eCAHNomics @ 18
Heh heh. Jury duty. I wonder if he will take the jury pay too?
In the new FISA laws I guess it’s now legal to spy on any of us, as blog’s are communications with connections to auslanders. From the administration retrieving information from search sites to legalizing their searches of us, I wonder if this administrations will make efforts to close down progressive blogs, as blogs gain in strength and organization and form a true opposition.
I called MN Senator Amy Klobuchar’s office this morning to express my extreme disapproval of her boneheaded move. The recently-breifed staffer who answered the phone told me that Klobuchar supported it as a temporary bill and would work to come up with a more palatable final solution. I somewhat politely told her that that was a really really stupid idea. I think Amy needs to hear from a lot of people today.
good morning Redd. glad to see you made it home safe and sound. and I hope you got some rest. looks like you’re gonna need it today.
mauimom @ 19
Yes – I love that – and may I crosspost it to my blog as a reference? It is extremely helpful! Thanks!
mauimom @ 17
Did you guys read the article? It does talk about FDL & Huffington Post both being founded by women and popular.
It just (rather snarkily) talks about middle aged white guys being the rule and that minority and women issues weren’t addressed much.
I think they were trying to paint a picture of the liberal blogosphere as the same old, same old.
Another great post Scarecrow. While you are castigating the Dems who voted in favor of this atrocious legislation, lets not forget who made it possible — Pelosi and Reid. They control the schedule, so they had the ability to prevent the vote from ever occurring. It is not just the Blue Dogs, the Dems are a rotting entitity from the top down. Both Dems and Rethugs kowtow to their corporate donors. From what I hear the telecoms weren’t too keen on their legal exposure given their role in the illegal spying. I’m sure the executives are all sleeping more soundly now, and will dutifully continue their campaign contributions.
Is anyone else alarmed over the search of Thomas Tamm’s home?
I find this frightening.
N=1 @ 12
I think we would be better served handing out copies of the Constitution at Walmarts, Target, McDonalds, and Home Depot to our fellow citizens. Couple this with sending rolls of toilet paper with the words 4th Amendmnt written on them to members of Congress.
Just read the Webb statement. Weak – very weak.
So he chose to believe the D members of the Intelligence Committee, who chose to believe some presentation by the Bush administration, they of the stellar reputation for truthfulness.
4th Amendment? Nowhere in sight.
Solai @ 27
Yes. I have no other words to add because I could be next.
Hey You @ 20
$40/day. Newscaster I heard implied he would take it, but somehow I doubt it.
Millineryman @ 6
That’s why I used the numbers.
gbear @ 22
Ah. The final solution. (sigh)
N=1 @ 12
The more dangerous ones already walk around with little red copies provided by the Cato Institute.
Tomansky is ac omplete wuss.
Impeachment is the very least we can do. And the fact that we can’t do it because some Kapos claim it would be “distruptive” is beyond disgusting.
Future generations (if there are any and I’m beginning to doubt there will be) will regard us all as the Nazi collaborators that we truly are for giving these monsters a pass.
barbara @ 3
I am one of the reasons their approval rating has tanked so rapidly. I have been polled and re-polled on the job being done by Congress and I give them a friggin’ “F” every time. If I could, the next run on the polling would garner them an “F-”. They are an abject failure. They do NOT represent the People at all. They are NOT doing a single thing they were put in office to do and it became clear that this was the case with the Iraq Debacle supplemental.
Write
Senator Evan Bayh
131 Russell Building
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
Call
DC Office
Washington, DC
(202) 224-5623
Indianapolis
(317) 554-0750
Evansville
(812) 465-6500
Fort Wayne
(260) 426-3151
Hammond
(219) 852-2763
Jeffersonville
(812) 218-2317
South Bend
(574) 236-8302
gbear @ 22
Bush’s tax cuts were “temporary,” too. Then when they are about to sunset, the R’s start the “Dems want to raise you taxes” talk when the Ds don’t want to renew the cuts.
The same will happen here. The sunset will come up in 6 months, and we will hear “Dems want to put restrictions on what we can do to keep our coultry safe.” And right before the election. How convenient.
Christy,
Did you happen to see markfromireland’s drive- by comment last night? He said something in the last paragraph that didn’t sound quite right. His wording left room for some wild interpretation. What was your impression?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
There were lots of colored boobs there.
I posted this link on the other thread but this is as scary as Tamm’s case. USA Today
The only reason these lawyers knew their conversations were monitored was because of a screw up. They are not allowed to show the papers that prove this because it’s “confidential”.
Unreal.
David Ehrenstein @ 35
Someone suggested that using the illegal wiretaps as a reason to impeach has just evaporated. Intended consequence???
A bit surprised that this was not on the table at Yearly Kos especially with John Dean in attendance
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20061215.html
Refocusing the Impeachment Movement on Administration Officials Below the President and Vice-President:
Why Not Have A Realistic Debate, with Charges that Could Actually Result in Convictions?
By JOHN W. DEAN
—-
Friday, Dec. 15, 2006
There is a well-organized and growing movement to impeach President Bush and/or Vice President Cheney. On my bookshelf sit half a dozen books making the case for Bush’s impeachment. I myself have no doubt that Bush has, in fact, committed impeachable offenses, and that for each Bush “high crime and misdemeanor,” Cheney’s culpability is ten or twenty times greater.
Impeach march in Sept.
http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer
From what I am reading about Yearly Kos, it appears our Foreign Policy in regard to the the I/P conflict did not come up either? Did anyone hear this critical issue discussed? Were any questions asked of the candidates about this issue?
jayt @ 37
Great comment. More, please
jayt @ 29
and seems as if they have to trust the Boys Who Are Forever Crying “Wolf!”
I also found Pelosi’s letter to Conyers downright insulting, as if this travesty was somehow not her fault. She could have more simply said, “Dear John, Please shut the barn door now that the horses are out. Thanks, Nancy. P.S. Please don’t tell anyone that I was the brainless git that opened the door in the first place — thanks!”
I don’t doubt that there were several Dems who voted against the measure (like Pelosi) who knew perfectly well that it would pass. Had there been a real threat that it wouldn’t pass, some of these folks might have switched their votes. The endless posturing in our kibuki congress makes it very very hard to tell who the truly “good guys” are. So I think the magic numbers of 41 and 16 don’t fully tell the story.
Solai @ 27
The man wouldn’t carry the water. Gonzo (with Democratic approval) has declared open season on non water carriers.
David Ehrenstein @ 35
You folks are the legal junkies. I am a mere printing professional. So, why not go after Rove with the Hatch Act? I probably don’t know what the rules of evidence would be in this case. He did present a request for governement departments to brainstorm how they can help get GOP candidates elected. So, let’s get him in front of a jury and see if an indictment will stick.
AnnieW at 25 — Just read it. I think Vargas was playing off that quote from Gina Cooper — and it was fairly well balanced out with some vignettes from a number of bloggers who are female and folks of color. And it is true that there are a lot more women and folks of color out in the blog world than were reflected at the conference — whether that is due to economics or other factors (like kids — managing The Peanut staying home with Mr. ReddHedd and my going to Chicago was certainly a factor that I considered because my travel can be tough on her, for example), I don’t know.
But I do like Vargas’ work on blogs in general. When his editors don’t stick their hands in and mess up his work, he’s actually quite good in understanding a lot of blog dynamics.
Solai @ 27
I have asked Leahy to bring Tamm before the Senate Judiciary to testify about ALL he knows of the illegal wiretapping by the NSA in return for FULL IMMUNITY. The Congress gave the Iran/Contra criminals immunity and they were violating the Constitution. Tamm was doing what needed to be done to PROTECT and UPHOLD the Constitution. He deserves a medal, but short of that, he deserves FULL IMMUNITY.
gbear @ 22
Thank you for this report! You are right. This is complete crap. ANY talk of amendments by Pelosi, Conyers, and Reid is Kabuki. The next level of rhetoric from the bushies will call the Dems flip-floppers JUST for starters. Oh, and then there will be the fall threat from al Qaeda of an attack on Congress, well, because the terrorists just couldn’t get their shit together to hit in August. It’s all lies from LIARS.
And then, finally, we’ll be told “we don’t have the votes. Too bad. So sad.” Can’t we see all this coming now?
And this congress will not give us habaeas corpus back.
And this congress will not be getting anyone out of Iraq.
They just gave away the house while Bush flaunts all oversight. And now AGAG and DNI are calling the shots.
hackworth at 39 — Given that i didn’t even get home until 9:45 pm ET last night due to weather delays, and that I’m absolutely exhausted, you guys are lucky to even have me up and sentient this morning.
So, no, I didn’t see it.
Solai @ 27
Yes, it’s just the beginning.
Millineryman @ 6
AMEN!
it’s time for a loyalty oath to the 16 and the 42.
Congresswoman/Senator:
Do you really believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?
Yes, or No?
These people need to be hounded with this question day and night for the next 30 days. Do it by email. Write letters. Ask them in person. Make them feel ashamed. This should be their living nightmare.
Someone suggested that using the illegal wiretaps as a reason to impeach has just evaporated. Intended consequence???
Well, they *were* illegal, and in spite of that, continued to operate for years. But since they’ve now been validated, I’d say impeachment based on the now-validated behavior is out the window.
But, “TSP has many, many parts”. If this is ever fleshed out, well…. nothing will happen then either.
JF @ 38
Plus, it will be in the de facto campaign season! Doubleplusgood! They will be even MORE fearful of appearing weak on terror that they will “modify” the bill with something they find more “palatable” by rendering the rest of the Bill of Rights optional. Maybe they can open up all domestic calls to warrantless wiretaps too! All in the name of fighting terrorist (you know, the People who were formed from a bunch of people “terrorizing” government to win freedom).
Christy Hardin Smith @ 52
it is a treat that your back and here!
Did all the Yearly Kos folks make it onto their planes?
good thought, jayt at 37.
Here’s Amy Klobuchar’s info:
Washington, DC
302 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
phone: 202-224-3244
fax: 202-228-2186
Ft. Snelling, MN
1 Federal Drive
Whipple Federal Building, Suite 298
Fort Snelling, MN 55111
phone: 612-727-5220
fax: 612-727-5223
Southern Minnesota
1134 7th Street NW
Rochester, MN 55901
phone: 507-288-5321
fax: 507-288-2922
Kathleen — Dean’s panel was on Republicans who have seen the light — and he talked about why he, as a Goldwater conservative, came to see the Bush administration as radical authoritarianism. It was a great panel, with the guy from Media Matters and Cenk Uyger, also former Republicans. Arianna Huffington, another convert was supposed to be there but she broke her angle and sent a sub.
RevDeb and I got a chance to chat with Dean for a few minutes and he was still jazzed about his Book Salon experience.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 52
My sympathies, Christy! I’ll bet the Peanut was glad to have her Momma home! Is the coffee on, and are your birds singing? Soak up home for a moment – we will wait for you….*g*…for a little while!
jayt @ 29
And DiFi (who Webb cites as one of the Committee members that he is listening to) said she was confused by the whole thing … so why is anyone taking the word of the Committee members AT ALL?
Pelosi’s letter to Conyers is inexcusable.
This is an excellent idea. I’ll do the same. If they come through, I’ll feel a little hopeful. If they don’t……well, I’m sinking quickly into despair.
phred @ 26
Not only that, but Pelosi and Reid actually contributed to the speedy vote by performing tricks with the procedural rules.
Scarecrow @ 60
John Dean appears to be a voice of reason at this point.
Correction! I believe this country wants them all sent to jail. At least the few thousand I know do.
With progressives in Alaska looking toward the August, 2008 primaries, the boneheaded FISA vote may prove to be ammunition to use against Dinos in thjose same primaries. Already in the Diane Benson-Jake Metcalfe AK-At-Large US House race, we have Jake sticking up for the “surge,” against impeachment and defending the Dem record which led to the laz regulatory environment of the “Exxon Valdez” disaster. Last week, Benson received a standing ovation when she spoke at Anchorage’s premiere Democratic Party venue, the Bartlett Club.
Every US House Dino who voted for the expansion/changes of FISA needs a REAL progressive Dem challenger in upcoming primaries.
The question we have to ask ourselves is not whether the Democrats are weak vis-a-vis the threat of being called weak on ‘terror’, but whether the American people are weak with respect to that threat. Democrats would have stood up if they thought there would be no negative consequences to doing so. That makes them cowards, to be sure, but what does it make the American public, whose fear is the reason why the Dems gave away the store?
The American people have been programmed to fear outsiders since the Second World war, if not a decade or so earlier. That programming was deliberately and successfully carried out by right-wing Republicans who used it in an attempt to undo the New Deal. That history is water under the bridge, and we are now left with a public that is vulnerable to right-wing demagoguery aided and abetted by the MSM, who have their own reasons to push it. We may hate it, and fight against it, but we have to live with it.
I think this puts the Democratic surrender in a different, though not more favorable, light. They are looking down the road, and figure that if they can just hold out for another 16 months, the nightmare will be over, so why rock the boat. This is, I think, Hillary Clinton’s modus operandi, too. I don’t think it’s going to change.
Our Constitution has changed, whether we like it or not. To my mind, the best we can do is keep the light burning. Other countries have gone through bad patches and survived.
According to Dean impeaching lower level officials ..Rove, Feith, Bolton, Fleisher, Libby is the way to go. Eliminate the possibility that they can roll back into future administrations.
I’m astonished that Fred Hiatt’s WaPo editorial page actually bashed the Democrats for the right reasons today. (Then again, if it’s about bashing Democrats, they’re more than happy to do it even if it conflicts with whatever their core philosophy is supposed to be.)
Hey You at 48: good idea; only one problem. Gonzales controlls the Justice Department, so no one in the WH who might have violated the law is going to be properly investigated, let alone prosecuted. See the problem?
I checked in on a few Gooper sites this morning and found:
- Many commenters are relieved the FISA mods passed
- They REALLY believe there are AQ threats active in the US
- Many commenters are angry at the American People for voting the weakling Dems into office in ‘06
- They think the ’surge’ is working, but that Maliki is failing them
- More than a few ‘Thank You Bush and Cheney’ comments for no new terror attacks since 911
Deep, deep knuckle trails, severely sloped foreheads, overhanging brows – almost all male – a lot of tough talk and disparagement (to put it mildly). These guys seem fairly well lost within the testosterone cloud…
How do you tell the Proud man his Pride is blinding him to the potential of collaborative possibilities? – to win-wins? Why does the Proud man see only win-lose propositions?
jayt @ 37
Just called. Said I was calling every single D senator who voted for FISA and shredded the 4th amendment. Said I had voted D my whole life, but as a result of this legislation, I would not vote again. I was asked for may name & where I was calling from, and she said, in a surprised tone, thank you for calling.
I’d be happy to make same call to D sens in other states. Mine both voted against it.
Knut Wicksell @ 69
This is the point. Sometimes you have to do what is right regardless – and then make your reasons clear. The reason that people are P.O’d at Congress is that they will not stand up on this, on the war, against big Pharma. It is not just about fear.
1,600 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Scarecrow and the Firepup Patriots:
“The country wants the Democrats…to take power out of the hands of the radicals that have abused that power and run the country into a ditch…”
That is the message that we must pound into the soft heads and shrinking hearts of our Democratic leadership. We won’t end this obscene war or get ANY of our kids out of that desert hell until we cleanse the Democratic leadership of the corporatists and Quislings. Indeed, we won’t end the nightmare we have been livin’ for the last 6 years unless we elect Dodd, Edwards or Gore to the presidency…Mrs. Clinton in the White House will finish the fascist consolidation of power and the bury what is left of the idea of constitutional democracy.
So…the primary goal here must be to retake the Democratic Party and get a real democrat elected to the White House, the war will never end until that is accomplished.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, OUR FUTURE IS SHRINKIN’ BY THE MINUTE!!
Scarecrow @ 72
No I don’t. Can the AG in a situation like this be circumvented? I am not aware of the legislature being dependent upon Justice to get an investigation rolling. What powers can they invoke to compel an investigation whether Gonzalez ok’s it or not?
Ed*ard Teller @ 68
Incumbent Democrats who voted for FISA gutting (or Alito cloture) should all face a primary challenger. I agree that the FISA gutting provides ammunition to prospective challengers. Funny that today (after its too late) the NYT has found a way to concisely explain FISA to the public.
Good Morning Scarecrow.
Thank you yet again for another fine read. Up way way to late just stewing over recent events last night, so forgive, please, but I’ll say Howdy before attempting the full read. Gotta go get a BIG cuppa to nurse me awake.
Good Morning to you also Christy. I hope you had a smooth trip home and can finally put your feet up to rest the legs a bit. Nothing much worse than racing back & forth at big hotels and convention centers. Hope you can take time for yourself, at least physically. Sounds as if the mind is whirring right along.
Under the category of “odd comments”, I left one downstairs st Sian’s fine post just after midnight, in a vain attempt to empty some of what was whirling around in my own mind after the events of last week & in the continuing maelstrom of booshness, plus other politicians’ seemingly strange reactions to same.
I hope it doesn’t offend anyone. I’m afraid to look back at it myself, but I wake up (sort of) this morn still feeling it might hold some clues to explanations we’re all struggling with these days. No answers. Just thots on people and how they act, and musings on the “why” of it all… and a plea that we all keep working together for good. That work is sorely needed.
I’m not going to bring that comment up here. It’s too long. But I’d invite others to check it out and see if it makes sense to them at all, do here’s link.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-876053
There might be, but they could have been investigated legally without these changes.
Called Klobuchar.
You know. I live in Wisconsin and I was thinking… hmmmm. What would happen if I called Feingold’s office and just ask about investigating Rove? Who knows? I met get a good answer.
Just emailed Sen Leahy about Tann. Please, all, do the same.
radiofreewill @ 73
Look, this is the openly fascist wing of America that is calling the shots. They are setting the table for the stabbed in the back excuse as Iraq unravels too.
These people need to be stood up to and challenged and not constantly capitulated to.
That people like Jim Webb haven’t congealed this truth is more than disturbing.
The US is slouching towards tyranny and the spoiled and well funded media are clapping and cheering all the way.
America is in far more peril than it has been in a very long time.
-GSD
This Congress is not going to impeach anyone.
I’m not even sure they will be sending any more letters of disapproval to the WH … and if they do it will never matter anyway.
Knut Wicksell @ 69
Yes this terror propaganda is a real problem.
And obviously congress people and anyone who would be a whistleblower are increasingly being pressured behind the scenes and in front of the scenes.
I don’t have an answer except to start pointing out that the only evidence we have about current terror threats comes from LIARS.
But the fact that the bushies are ALWAYS lying doesn’t seem to get any traction.
Man, are we trapped.
AnnieW @ 80
AND they are FAR FAR less a threat than the 10,000 warheads atop ICBMs that we faced throughout the Cold War.
Even if terra-ists took out a city with a nuke, it wouldn’t destroy the nation: the utter destruction of NOLA didn’t destroy this nation or bring on the need for martial law.
NOTHING is so big a threat that the Constitution and Bill of Rights isn’t stronger than it is. NOTHING.
P.S. …and Kos has been consumed by the corporate beast, Markos likes bein’ one a the “cool kids”.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…REMEMBER THAT THEY DECLARED WAR ON US !!
Scarecrow @ 60
Too bad. Arianna has some really nice angles.
Now this might get the FDLer’s excited. Check out who is on the Diane Rehm show at 11 a.m. EST.
11:00Robert Novak: “The Prince of Darkness” (Crown Forum)
The conservative commentator and man responsible for outing CIA agent Valerie Plame joins Diane to talk about his fifty years reporting from Washington.
Guests
Robert Novak, syndicated columnist, editor of the “Evans-Novak Political Report,” and a FOX News contributor.
http://wamu.org/programs/dr/07/08/06.php#13121
call 1800-433-8850 or e-mail your questions drshow@wamu.org
“Why the hell are you still writing front page articles and books when you should be in jail for outing an undercover agent? Can you explain this Mr. Novak?”
Ed*ard Teller @ 88
Shame about her ankle…I would kiss it for her if it would help make it better.
radiofreewill @ 73
That’s just plain scary. They believe all these lies from LIARS.
After re-reading the following Fox News transcript that was kiboshed, could it be that the FISA and eavesdropping is being used to investigate those who may be spying on us? Just a thought. I have no idea if any of it is true and considering the source…take it with a boulder of salt. However, the company discussed is AMDOCS. It is/was an Israeli company that collects and issues billing for US telephone companies. Anyway, read it if you want, and think about who they might be listening in to and why. Consider also who the commentators were:
http://www.informationclearing…..le7545.htm
What the country wants (and needs) is for the Democrats to stand the the GOP’s collective windpipe until their last gurgling breath is but a distant memory, and not step back until the elephant assumes room temperature.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
or were just invisible to MSM reps?
Scarecrow says:
Nancy Pelosi said the same thing last week.
Called Webb. Had to leave msg in staff malibox, as his was full. No human interaction in 3 tries.
Praedor Atrebates @ 86
I couldn’t agree more.
Actually the weakness in the Constitution and Bill of Rights is the ability of this administration and Congress to circumvent it.
I guess it’s quaint in the new age of terror to want freedom and rights.
radiofreewill @ 73
there could be a real threat – but passing s.1972 doesn’t make us safer.
The only way, that I see, to get rid of the terror propaganda is to expose it once and for all for what it is.
There will always be those who will not listen and we cannot concern ourselves with them.
We have known that for a while now, there are ad-type agencies out there working for the “think tanks” in the blogs, spreading the “stay on message” talking points. I would imagine that some of the posts you saw at the Conserv-o-blogs where just that.
Later Fdler’s thanks for all you do?
Hey You @ 77
The Congress can conduct it’s own investigations , though that too is stymied by the WH refusal to provide information and respond to subpoenas directing WH officials to appear. But Congress cannot easily compel a criminal prosecution, which must come from the executive/DoJ, and that is controlled by people who are helping to cover up the crimes — we are in a terrible predicament that can only be solved by removing these people from office. Impeachment is the remedy, but it would have to get through Gonzales to Cheney to Bush — that appears an insurmountable hurdle for this Congress, even though many of us believe it should have been on the table from the beginning as an deterrent and as a teaching device on the Constitution.
Biodun @ 95
Hmmmm. That’s the same reason that we never prosecuted Nixon. “Gotta move on. Doin’ anything ’bout it would split the country. And we can’t have that.”
Robert Novak on the Diane Rehm show at 11.
http://wamu.org/programs/dr/07/08/06.php#13121
After re-reading the following Fox News transcript that was kiboshed, could it be that the FISA and eavesdropping is being used to investigate those who may be spying on us? Just a thought. I have no idea if any of it is true and considering the source…take it with a boulder of salt. However, the company discussed is AMDOCS. It is/was an Israeli company that collects and issues billing for US telephone companies. Anyway, read it if you want, and think about who they might be listening in to and why. Consider also who the commentators were:
http://www.informationclearing…..le7545.htm
LS @ 92
This is actual footage of the Fox report (part 3):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW-LWadsPx0
Praedor Atrebates @ 90
She sent along a handout explaining her history, and she had a sub, the editor of HuffPo, who though not a convert, was interesting/entertaining. That whole session was hoot. Cenk said it had the feel of an AA meeting.
LS – I want to apologize for telling you to take of your tin-foil hat last week in regards to Pelosi’s dinner with the Bushes. I underestimated the depths to which Bush would sink. You were correct that the dinner and prior meeting was probably a strategy session on how to get this bill passed.
Ed*ard Teller @ 88
And curves.
(you know you were thinking it) heh.
Praedor Atrebates @ 86
Yeah, and heck, we didn’t even have to reclaim NOLA … what really can these non-existent terrorists do to us? FAR, FAR, FAR less than the terrorism propaganda has already done.
radiofreewill @ 73
It always cracks me up when I hear Goopers say that there were no new terror attacks on US soil since 911. I guess bioterrorism invilving government grade anthrax that has yet to be solved doesn’t count? I’m just askin’.
This person is once again ahead of the curve. Arianna astounds me.
The Huffington Post’s Fundrace 2008, which enables users to easily find the names and addresses of contributors to presidential candidates, is a powerful weapon in the arsenal available to the public to understand the complex world of campaign finance.
While newspapers and other websites examine the big picture – how much has been raised and spent overall – Fundrace provides a means to look at campaigns from the bottom up.
Is there something wrong with blockquotes this morning? I am noticing a lot of botch jobs on blockquoting other comments (in my messages too).
Look; The House just passed on the administrations $457 billion military spending bill and it is ready for the Senate as soon as they get back. Only 13 voted no.
Kucinich was one of them.
The only representative that is really standing up for what we are talking about isn’t being given the time of day by the MSM or the other dems (including KOS and other blogs).
Changing the guard is meaningless.
I am throwing out an idea for the liberal blogosphere on dealing with the Republican memes.
Is there someone out here (not me, I’m just a lawyer) with the skill set to set up a Wikipedia type “Statement of Opposition” that the blogosphere can use to collectively pool knowledge and outlooks?
Can we use the strengths of this medium — collaborative work, documented and linked sources, etc — to create a strong a meaningful counter-statement that frames the issues the ways the Dems fail to do?
Maybe then we can get some traction.
JF @ 106
Hey JF, no need to apologize to me! The whole thing is strange indeed. Check out what I just posed above…then follow me to the kitchen for tin-foil! I’m thinking that if Congress believes we are being spied upon by an ally, they would want to support the changes in FISA…Just a thought. :)
Michael Scherer in Salon on netroots cheering Hillary at Yearly Kos:
Tomasky is so full of s–t that you can hear it slosh.
Does he think an idiot like GWB could have been elected in 2000, if the Republicans hadn’t impeached Clinton? Has he forgotten about the Dem gains in 1976 after filing impeachment articles against Nixon?
The Dems too are just worthless schmucks. There is only one way they can redeem themselves which is for every candidate to announce that if elected, they’re going to enforce the Presidential Records Act to the hilt. That means any documents related to the current Bush insanity have to be handed over to the next administration, and if anything gets shredded improperly, those responsible will go to jail.
Sadly, I agree. I was stunned at the many ignorant comments that were left on the WaPo site by those who claimed to be Democrats and or Liberals. I read every comment and voted for the ones where the writer actually understood the meaning of our Constitution.
mauimom @ 17
Damn, you mean I could have left my boobs at home, didn’t need to lug them around that vast expanse between venues???
There was a diversity problem, but it was not a gender issue.
The caucus for the Industrial States (MI-PA-OH) reflected a diversity problem, for example; of the 50-70 people who attended the caucus, only 2-4 of them were persons of color. Yet MI alone, in two of its largest cities, is home to more than 1.5 million African-Americans; why weren’t there more African-American bloggers in attendance?
The Native American and Asian-American caucuses also reflected a problem; the first had only 12-18 attendees, and the second less than a dozen.
But YearlyKos is self-selecting; only those folks who choose to attend are there. And to some extent, only those panelists who choose to participate are there.
Yet more highly flawed coverage from the corporate media. It’s important to remember they have a massive conflict of interest here because their business model is under siege, and their coverage is a manner of warfare against that which it believes is a threat to its existence.
By the way: I did not see any f*cking corporate media at the Native American or Asian-American caucuses.
Does the media have a diversity problem?
Phooey, I see sleepless nights spawn typos by the dozen. Sorry folks.
N=1. Hi! Glad to see you here. After jabbering to you about ethology yesterday, it dawned on me, we’ve got wikipedia to sort it all out. Sure ’nuff. It’s there. And in case you didn’t see my comment on it, I suggested some small books that are classics, and fun to read. ;->
Technicolouryawn @ 109
I believe they solved it. They tried to throw Hatfill in as the perp, but he’s pretty obviously innocent. The anthrax thing was patently obvious as an inside kind of job.
They cop to cowardice to cover up complicity.
fdl reader @ 91
What about the Anthrax atacks? Why is this forgotten? This myth “no attacks since 9-11″, has even been repeated in Democratic debates.
LS @ 114
But this is bogus. There is NO WAY that Bush/Cheney would actually prosecute Israeli “spies”. They would more likely seek to prosecute anyone that leaks info on Israeli activities. In any case, it is unacceptable to allow for blanket spying on all American overseas phonecalls as part of the cost of hoping to nail an Israeli influence peddling ring. The Bill of Rights is more important than that.
Solai @ 27
I linked to an article about it several times yesterday and pointed out that he will likely need BOTH a legal defense fund AND amici briefs.
If he is the whistlebower, he is in world of shit. This is a guy with kids who only recently came off the pennypuncing of a gov’t salary, I don’t ehnik he has anywhere near Scooter’s personal resources
A little more Scherer:
So-called?
Great post, Scarecrow, lots to crow about! Caw-Caw! My favorite point is this:
Problem is that now we have 41 members of the house and 16 members of the Senate that have joined up with the jerks and bullies. You could say that they formed the foundations for this change in the law! To this I think it means we haven’t preached to the choir enough. Somehow these folks still don’t understand how seriously we take the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Our strategy has been shown to be altogether wrong.
I might as well also mention that I was just watching Today show, and I noticed yet again that the left is being referenced as anti-corporation, anti-, anti-,blah, blah. I don’t know about you, but I am not anti-corporate. Just because I don’t believe corporations should be able to do to people what other people are not allowed to do, does not mean I am anti-corporation or anti-Capitalism. I am, in fact, a capitalist. That does not mean that I think that the almighty dollar is a god. It also does not mean that I think all corporations are slime, or that people that get satisfaction on a personal worth level from their corporate jobs are anything but great, mentally healthy, probably well balanced individuals. There are many socially concious and righteous corporations, who abide by the rules and do much good along the way. And corporate heads like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who give back and are very careful how they give back, makes me very proud of them, as well as the country that allowed them to flourish.
Frankly, though, I’m not pleased with being catagorized as anti-anthing just because I happen to have a liberal bend to my thinking and feeling. My point is, we need to totally repackage and resell ourselves if our own brothers are misunderstanding our points.
What ever happened to the investigation of the Anthrax? What ever happened to that?
The reason that they say there has been no act of foreign terrorism committed since 9/11 on US is because there hasn’t been.
Where did the Antrax come from? What bill was signed right afterward? At least they got that much right.
PPP @ 21
I posted this today on the WaPo.
Ed*ard Teller @ 120
Hatfill (Hatfield?) is suing.
A little more Scherer:
Interesting.
Adie @ 119
Rats – I haven’t found your reference comment! I’ll go back and look! Thanks for the heads up and for the ethology reference!
We in this house thirst for Democrats with guts. We are not in tune with bipartisanship.
Rayne @ 118
I know two Native Alaskans, one female, one male, who wanted to attend, but couldn’t afford to go. That isn’t exactly my definition of self-selecting non-attendance.
Praedor Atrebates @ 50
THAT IS GENIUS
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this – the front page story on this morning’s LA Times, top right corner. Of course, most of the rest of the front page was fluffy ….
Partisanship serves parties’ interests
The GOP sees more advantage in disrupting congressional business, and Democrats see no incentive to accommodate the minority.
By Noam N. Levey, Times Staff Writer
August 6, 2007
WASHINGTON — As the House of Representatives lurched through its last rancorous hours over the weekend, there was much talk of shame and disappointment about the bitter partisanship that seemed to consume Congress ahead of its summer break.
But there were few real tears in the Capitol for the current state of affairs.
Seven months into Democrats’ control of the House and Senate, the angry sparring has largely served the political interests of both parties, whose leaders often believe they have more to gain by warring with their rivals than by working with them.
Newly empowered Democrats, confident that the public backs their agenda and eager to expand their House and Senate majorities next year, have little incentive to accommodate the GOP minority.
They left town touting their successful efforts to raise the federal minimum wage, revamp ethics and lobbying rules, and implement the Sept. 11 commission’s recommendations, though many other major goals, such as ending the war in Iraq, were unrealized.
For their part, Republicans, who still lag in public opinion polls after losing the majority last year, see more advantage in disrupting congressional business in their quest to cast the Democratic Congress as ineffective.
They went home complaining of a “do-nothing” Congress, even after they used one procedural tactic after another to stall legislative business.
looseheadprop @ 132
Seconded or is that thirded.
Little more Scherer:
Also interesting.
willyloman @ 127
The Anthrax attack was a false flag attack used to get the Patriot Act through. The next attack will also be a false flag intended to “validate” the latest FISA bill AND setup a demand for a stronger FISA “fix” in February (right at the start of the real campaign season!) and a stronger Patriot Act.
That “gut feeling” of Chertoff’s was the hunger developed after a long night spent with Bush/Cheney, et al, working up a false flag operation to get everything they have ever wanted.
EPU’d downstairs:
thots in the middle of a thunderstorm:
The world is horribly complicated, and filled with brutal, cruel, unsolvable problems.
We currently have an executive branch of government which, for whatever reason(s), has overturned major parts of our system of governance and grievously damaged the basic system of trust and faith that used to help it function, has with lies and deceit, started a preemptive war killing and maiming thousands upon thousands of people, as well as fomenting policies leading to more strife, mistrust, and hate than perhaps ever existed before throughout the world, as well as unprecented hate and mistrust of us and our country.
These people continue their hateful, greedy, reckless, hurtful policies with seemingly wanton abandon. Similar lack of care, planning, or any semblance of personal responsibility, or even simple humanity, seem to drive their environmental, social, fiscal or any other policies. They appear utterly devoid of any workable plan for the future.
The horror of this realization concerning our so-called leaders, I think, surely is causing a cascading series of disasterous consequences, not just here in the USA but around the world. There WILL be no future for our children or anyone else’s, if these policies continue, and otherwise diligent, caring, forward-thinking people are utterly stymied when trying to right the wrongs, to cope with the impending horror these leaders have wrought.
Maybe, just maybe, our personal deep concerns about the future are indeed also felt by other people, yes, including politicians, outside the executive branch of our present government.
Maybe these horrible current events, and even more dreadful things feared in the future, have frozen in their tracks, otherwise decent people in the legislature and courts, because these people simply have no idea how to get the world beyond the seemingly insurmountable problems caused by our very own executive branch of government – so called.
So, we see potentially effective politicians diddle and twaddle away their hours and their days with pandering, self-serving greedy acts, petty bickering, and make-work, because it helps keep them from totally panicking over what the future holds and simply standing in the middle of the Capitol Rotunda and emitting a primal scream.
We need to keep going, folks.
We need to keep helping any way we can.
We cannot afford to stop what we are doing.
We MUST NOT stop.
looseheadprop @ 133
Wow that is. Any experts interested in adding to this? Or blogging it?
Ed*ard Teller @ 132
Robyn Serven on DailyKos (handle Rserven) writes and teaches about web-based education – she would be a terrific coordinator for virtual attendance at a convention. I would strongly advocate that next year’s Netroots Nation conference add a web-based aspect so that people can virtually attend. Disparity in healthcare access also has a correlate to educational/face-to face convention travel and disposable income disparity. That may be where a significant portion of the “diverse” community resides.
Ed*ard Teller @ 119
PPP @ 21
I posted this today on the WaPo.
Comment:
The diversity problem that Rayne mentioned in 118 definitely reflects the diversity problem of the Net-saavy community in the US in general.
barbara @ 3
I am begining to think this is the real role of pushing FISA this weekend. It has created a split among the Dems. Looked at that way it was a frigging stroke of genius.
BTW, my rep, Maloney, is holdingn no meeting for constitutents during August recess. When I asked whether she ever holds constituent meetings, I got a snarky: of course. I asked how many times/year. That was a stumper. After a pause, the A was oh, a couple; it depends on the topic; the last one was in May on the Post Office. (Not sure what that means, but think it might be the conversion of a beautiful post office bldg on 8th avenue into the entrance for Penn Station.) I said oh that’s a matter of major importantce and hung up the phone.
Not sure what to do next. She’s clearly a person of no scope who wants only to dot local i’s and cross local t’s, as I suspected. I may visit her office anyhow.
Anyone else in her distict with any ideas? She votes the right way. Should we just leave well enough alone?
N=1 @ 131
Don’t bother. I’ll bring up a link. ‘kay? ;->
Back in a jif!
Tomasky’s piece on impeachment should be hung up there beside O’Hanlon and Pollack’s on the “surge”. Both are deeply dishonest. Both reflect the Beltway Conventional Wisdom.
Tomasky argues that only 45% of Americans currently favor impeachment of Bush and so impeachment would surely fail. He forgets that only about 25% of Americans favored impeachment of Nixon before his impeachment investigation. 4 months later Nixon was gone.
Tomasky dismisses the importance of investigation. If there are no smoking guns, impeachment is not worth the effort. But how do we know if there are smoking guns in the absence of such investigation? Beyond that, an impeachment investigation strips away spurious claims of executive privilege and would allow a bright light to be shone on this most secretive and criminal of Administrations.
Tomasky avoids saying, in fact, when impeachment would be appropriate. Bush is the worst President in our history. If impeachment is off the table with him, then it has no place in our Constitutional system.
Tomasky says that an impeachment would be divisive, but as John Nichols on Bill Moyers pointed out impeachment is the cure not the disease. It is Bush and his Administration that have divided the country between a radical few and the rest of us.
Tomasky does make the standard false appeal to bipartisanship. But his version is the usual Republican one where they decide and the Democrats agree.
Perhaps Tomasky’s most incredible argument is that impeachment is bad for Democrats but OK for Republicans. He bases this particular sophism on the notion that Democrats depend on a sense of civic trust in the electorate that impeachment would destroy. Yet as we have seen already with Iraq funding and FISA, the Democrats’ failure to oppose and go after what Bush is doing does far more to undermine their credibility and the civic trust that Tomasky so prizes.
Tomasky’s take home message is that it’s OK for Democrats to act as long as their actions are ineffectual. Looking at how the Democrats have acted so far, I think they have heeded his advice.
We in this house view impeachment hearings as imperative. We’re not talking about conviction. We are well aquainted with the super majority business, etc. And we don’t care.
Biodun @ 137
I wouldn’t have booed. He is right. I should think that this is obvious by this point. I should think it is clearly indicated in the sub-Bush approval ratings of Congress that is NOT simply due to GOP obstructionism. It is because the Dems have changed, and have tried to change, NOTHING of any real substance.
hackworth @ 78
You know what might be a useful exercise? Comparing the list of those who voted for Alito cloture with thiose who voted to have FISA pass witha simple majority and those who voted for the FISA bill.
I wonder if the Venn Diagram from those 3 lists would give us a managable number of seats to target?
Could someone put up the links to which D sens & reps voted for FISA again? I’m on a phone call roll.
At the rate Congress is going today the Republicans will win back the Senate and gain seats in the House. With the complicity of the MSM trashing any Dem, dirty tricks and voter suppression efforts that are already in place Republicans will have a real shot at holding on to the WH.
eCAHN at 149 — There’s this thing called “google”… *g*
Google page on FISA vote
“So while I’m not going to argue about impeachment per se, I object to Lieberman’s Tomasky’s notion that the country hungers for a return to bipartisanship in the sense that it requires the Democrats to accommodate the Republicans on the range of public policy issues now facing the country. Where has Tomasky been? That view, when applied to the extreme radicals who now dominate the Republican Party, is precisely what has hurt this country, weakened the Democratic party and turned many of them into sheep who are incapable of defending the most basic democratic principles.”
Crow- I looked in vain through Tomasky’s piece to find him saying this- or anything like it- and couldn’t find it. Perhaps you can direct me?
gbear@22: Which number did you use to call Sen Klobuchar. I called one MN # from her website & staffer told me to all the DC office becaue “that is where the policy makers are”.
called Klobuchar’s office to register my displeasure with her FISA vote.
Off to work now.
And don’t forget DiFi the “tiebreaker”!! I am so pissed I have to wait till I quit sputtering, but I really want to hear what her explanation for all this is…but I am afraid I have already decided that I will never vote for her ever again.
Here is the contact info from her senate website:
How to . . . Contact my Washington, D.C. office
Senator Dianne Feinstein
United States Senate
331 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
Phone: (202) 224-3841
Fax: (202) 228-3954
TTY/TDD: (202) 224-2501
e-mail site: http://feinstein.senate.gov/pu…..Us.EmailMe
Please feel free to call or write the office nearest you, or you can visit one of the offices between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. We are here to serve you.
San Francisco
One Post Street, Suite 2450
San Francisco, CA 94104
Phone: (415) 393-0707
Fax: (415) 393-0710
The following counties are served by the San Francisco office: Alameda, Butte, Colusa, Contra Costa, Del Norte, El Dorado, Glenn, Humboldt, Lake, Lassen, Marin, Mendocino, Modoc, Monterey, Napa, Nevada, Placer, Plumas, Sacramento, San Benito, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Santa Cruz, Shasta, Sierra, Siskiyou, Solano, Sonoma, Sutter, Tehama, Trinity, Yolo, Yuba.
Los Angeles
11111 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite 915
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Phone: (310) 914-7300
Fax: (310) 914-7318
The following counties are served by the Los Angeles office: Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, Ventura.
San Diego
750 B Street, Suite 1030
San Diego, CA 92101
Phone: (619) 231-9712
Fax: (619) 231-1108
The following counties are served by the San Diego office: Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, Imperial, San Diego.
Fresno
2500 Tulare Street, Suite 4290
Fresno, CA 93721
Phone: (559) 485-7430
Fax: (559) 485-9689
The following counties are served by the Fresno office: Alpine, Amador, Calaveras, Fresno, Imperial, Inyo, Kern, Kings, Madera, Mariposa, Merced, Mono, San Joaquin, San Luis Obispo, Stanislaus, Tulare, Tuolumne.
* Contact Us
* Washington, DC Office
* State Offices
* Newsletters
* E-mail Me
Praedor Atrebates @ 138
Richard Preston wrote a book about this called The Demon in the Freezer. It’s not just about the anthrax attacks and unfortunately he doesn’t go far into who could have been responsible,but it’s some really scary shit that raises some vital questions.
Watched the OMB oversight hearing on CSPAN. Gutierrez was asked when they are going to bother to tell the American people that their analog TV’s will cease to function 18 months from now and that people will be caught off guard when they wake up to no Teevee and start frantically calling Congress…he said that they would begin slowly telling the public sometime near the end of this year….Thanks alot!
Also, a Repub wants to kill all the sea lions, because they like salmon too much. Sweet./s
Wayy Epu’d to N=1.
Also: wiki link happily deals with some of the same names I mentioned, & puts things better into context.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethology
ironranger @ 156
That’s a runaround. The DC office is probably closed? And you should be able to discuss policy issues locally, no? Are you supposed to go to DC because you care about what your congress critter is voting about? The local office is for local access, otherwise it’s just a campaign office. Go get ‘em!
What Tomassky isn’t saying is that there is a bipartisan effort ongoing right now in Washington. It’s a effort to move power away from the people and to the corporate interests.
There is no civic trust in any of them anymore, yet if you say this in public or if you openly call for an investigation, you are labeled “fringe” and “nut job”.
Thanks to all who are posting contact information for anyone of the Gang flock of 16 Senators. If you get responses back, please bring them to FDL.
Fresh threadiness, up and ready for the reading if you want it…now, where’s that coffee pot?
anne @ 140
I don’t believe that Congress has the authority to grant full immunity from criminal prosecution.
If congressional immunity is granted, that would mean only that evidence against Tamm that emanated from his congressional testimony would be be excluded from a criminal prosecution. But if the State/Gov has enough evidence against him, gathered independently from testimony in Congress, a prosecution could proceed.
I think I’m right, but hope I’m wrong. (not a lot of congressional immunity questions pop up here in Indianapolis)
Biodun @ 144
The problem IS there. I don’t think it is intentional, though. However, the reality, the painful reality of what Dr. Maryam had to tell us on July 22 surprised some here more than I had expected. The empathy of this place is sometimes more veneer than a real skin, based on hard-learned realities of racism and race relations.
I often comment on what I regard as the institutional racism of the Democratic Party in regard to African-American voter disenfranchisement in the Southeast and in urban areas. I get less feedback on that subject here than on my sometimes acid comments about the plight of Palestinians.
Just a general set of observations….
fdlreader@162:
I thought that was horse manure too.
OT: So now the NSA can tap, scan, record, and archive every phone call that AGAG, an emination of Bush’s will, “reasonably believes” might be to or from an offshore phone. And, of course, AGAG being a prudent and loyal emination believes that eny call might be to/from a foreign phone. “We really don’t have the technology to infallibly discriminate. And the safety of the American People is at stake.”
Where the incumbent is a blue dog, the next election is a choice between two evils. It’s better to elect a repubican and work really hard on the next primary.
Christy’s upstairs…
looseheadprop @ 151
Can we add the Dems who voted for the MCA, too? I think this would be a manageable way to proceed. And I also think we need to recruit challengers for Pelosi and Reid to make a statement about our dissatisfaction with the leadership.
rxbusa @ 158
I remember hearing that DiFi said in the Senate that she was confused by the whole thing.
I’m sorry I don’t have a link for you … it really stuck out for me.
A quick ‘hit and run’ update about the House FISA action on Saturday, based on the Congressional Record that’s now available on-line (the Senate’s Friday action still isn’t posted; I haven’t read the comments to see if anyone else has pointed this out yet, so please excuse any double-posting):
It seems to be even worse than I imagined… It appears that it didn’t take more action from the Rules Committee to effect a simple majority vote on the Senate FISA bill (S. 1927)… It took a unanimous consent request on the floor of the House by Steny Hoyer, which didn’t receive a single objection. Not one Democrat (or Republican) said a word, to at least force the Rules Committee into some gymnastics to force this through:
Http://thomas.loc.gov/r110/r110.html
The political parties are obviously being run top-down with a vengeance, on both sides. The rank and file apparently defer to their “betters” on fear of … something … and with that deferment of individual judgement and independent conscience comes the dismantling of the Constitution whenever the “bosses” say so, as Pelosi did on Saturday. It’s unconscionable. Incumbents are already operating in a ‘totalitarian state’ of a sort within their political party – I guess they figure the rest of us can get along that way just fine too.
The “Blue Dogs” have become Nancy Pelosi’s favorite cover story excuse, no doubt.
Caveat: The House Committee on Rules hasn’t yet posted its Saturday action (it passed at least one resolution that day – H.Res. 615), so it’s possible there was further action beyond the unanimous consent request in play. I’ll keep checking for an update there, and for any other information about the behind the scenes machinations.
LS @ 160
Yes but people will be allowed to get a refund on their rabbit ears- I think it is $20.00 a pair. (True-and delivered with snark).
phred @ 171
Yes, regarding Reid and Pelosi.
I have never been in caucus and may be wrong, but my view is the whole democratic caucus could go radical and Reid and Pelosi would theoretically still be able to hold them to some party line vote … like what they DIDN’t do on FISA.
Tomasky’s right. It’s too early to go for articles of impeachment. And bush’s “High crimes and misdemeanors” are too nebulous and imprecise, in the gin-up and sustaining of the shitmire. Any grad from a nightime law school could hide whatever smoking gun there is.
Plus, there would be zero support from repubs for it. And when the democrats who sponsored it, have to eat it, it would be a huge victory for bush and the petro-turds.
Plus, this time, bush has the supremes in his pocket.
Time will change all of this, even SCOTUS’ likely rulings for bush-related cases. When they see the clear prospect of the GOP going down in flames, we’ll be amazed at how political they can become. :o)
We should keep on talking about impeachment, even op-edding for it, but the democratic leadership is spot-on, to leave the issue in the cloakrooms, and on the blogsites, for now.
It may not be what we want to hear, but Iraq is going to have to hurt more than it’s already hurting, before the repubs will start helping us force bush and Cheyney from office. And until they do that, we can’t get flush them out of the bunker.
But, help us, they will. The new head of the JC’s, Admiral Mullen, just said that the surge is having mixed results (bushspeak for: “It’s failed and we’re fucked!”) and at any rate, it can’t be sustained past next April.
It’s like this, folks:
In the not too distant future, we’re going to see active-duty field-grade officers in the U.S. military speaking that our troops are being used for the political purpose of trying to cover george bush and the GOP’s asses, to give them time to get to the Washington, D.C. bus station next November.
When that happens (It’s already happening in the halls of the pentagon, and in the halls of congress) it will be a dagger; a knee to the groin; that the MSM can’t ignore, or bury between Britney Spears’ silicon job. It’s going to be a big, brown, Lincoln Log, floating right there in the middle of the chiffon congeal…along with the rest of them.
OT, I’m sure that most of you saw that the State Department (Now, a wholly-owned-subsidiary of Bechtel & Halliburton, Inc.) is telling the candidates to stop talking and speculating about foreign policy.
I was like: “Wow! This IS getting a whiff of 1934 Nurenburg about it.”
But this would be a good point for someone (John Edwards, are you listening? :o) ) to tell them, AND their candidate for Mt. Rushmore, to go shit in their hats. :o)
Adie: Thanks so much! I know Lorenz and Morris (I even served as a momma for some chicks who got imprinted by accident). But I don’t know any of the others, so I’ll be happy now with another whole world to explore!
Gutierrez was asked when they are going to bother to tell the American people that their analog TV’s will cease to function 18 months from now and that people will be caught off guard when they wake up to no Teevee and start frantically calling Congress…he said that they would begin slowly telling the public sometime near the end of this year…
huh?
pow wow @ 173
Thanks for this pow wow. Like I said earlier, a lot of the “opposition” to this bill was pure farce for political cover. We need to get the leadership OUT!
probably easier to start a 3rd party with respect for the Constitution in it’s DNA.
On the other hand, Glenn Greenwald says:
many are not at all convinced that we have
sorry, there is not a lot of evidence behind that assertion.
the CPR is not working on the moribund, supine (D) Party, despite thousands of doctors at the table at the Kosvention.
really great post; H/T Scarecrow!
Hey Pow-wow…do you mind if I post
your comment at DKos in a diary? I
will give you the credit on the quote
of course…
PPP @ 21
The details are probably in the Presidential interpretation as given in the Signing Statement Bush is fond of adding. Haven’t yet seen any comment on this feature of the laws passage.
It’s no surprise to me that there was no impeachment forum at the YKos convention. They sold out long ago to the Democratic Party establishment–on Nov. 3, 2004, to be exact, when they obeyed the D dictum from above to put the kabosh on us election fraud/election reform Paul Reveres, who were screaming about voting machines run on “trade secret,” proprietary progamming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls, and massive vote suppression in Ohio–the lengths to which the War Party had to go to shove the Iraq War down the throats of the American people.
This talk was verboten. Kos caved and kicked us out. We all fled to the now famous Democratic Underground Election Forum, where, almost literally in the underground of the country, we figured out what Diebold/ES&S, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies and our nation’s political establishment had done to American democracy.
The coup had actually occurred in October 2002, in the same month as the Iraq War Resolution, and closely related to it–with the passage, under the radar, of the euphemistically titled “Help America Vote Act”: electronic voting with no transparency whatsoever, controlled mainly by two corporations, one with a CEO who was a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser–Diebold–and the other, a spinoff of Diebold, ES&S–initially funded by far rightwing billionaire nutball Howard Ahmanson who also contributed one million dollars to the extremist ‘christian’ Chalcedon foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things).
These are the people who “counted” 80% of the nation’s votes in 2004 under a veil of corporate secrecy.
Electronic voting, on extremely insecure and insider hackable voting machines, owned and controlled by Bushite corporations, had been fast-tracked across the country during the 2002 to 2004 period, with a $3.9 billion e-voting boondoggle, engineered by the biggest crooks in the Anthrax Congress–Tom Delay and Bob Ney (aided by Christopher Dodd).
But the really bad part–I mean, who is surprised that Bushites would install evil voting machines?–is that the “Help America Vote for Bush Act” was supported, pushed, enforced not just by Bilderberg ‘Democrat’ Christopher Dodd, but by the entire Democratic Party leadership, who drew an “Iron Curtain” over any discussion of this Stalinist voting system.
“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.” –attributed to Josef Stalin
THIS is why the exit polls on Nov. 2, 2004, didn’t jibe with the “official total” concocted from Diebold/ES&S’s secret formulae. THIS is why the exit polling consortium of all the war profiteering corporate news monopolies felt obliged to DOCTOR their exit polls to force them to fit Diebold/ES&S’ conclusion. THIS is why, although the Democratic Party grass roots blew the Bushites away in new voter registration nearly 60/40, in 2004, all those new hotly anti-Bush Democratic votes seemed to vanish on election day–or, oddly, had joined the Democratic Party to vote for…George Bush.
They grabbed a few percentages here and a few percentages there, mostly on the east coast, to assemble Bush/Cheney’s national majority, tweaked a number of close states (”battleground states”) into Bush/Cheney’s column, to build an Electoral Vote lead, then committed every Voting Rights Act violation in the books, and then some, in Ohio, using the filthiest Republican machine in the country, set up ahead of time, to steal the final state.
The undoctored exit polls said Kerry won by 3%. There is reason to believe it was a lot bigger, more like 5% to 7%. In any case, Diebold/ES&S had flipped a Kerry win of AT LEAST 3% into a Bush win by 2.5%.
There is blatant evidence of other e-voting thefts, notably Max Cleland in 2002, in Georgia, the first all-Diebold state, Christine Jennings, FL-13, in 2006 (ES&S ‘disappeared’ 18,000 votes for Congress in Democratic areas, in an election that the Bushite ‘won’ (of course!) by only 350 or so votes, and the election reform measures in Ohio in 2005, predicted to win by 60/40, flipped over in election day into a 40/60 LOSS!
The tip of the iceberg.
But the one that stabbed our democracy in the back was the presidential election of 2004, and the one that twisted the knife in, and destroyed major organs, occurred last year, when Diebold/ES&S (s)elected a Congress that would put the Democratic brand on an ESCALATION of the war–in the teeth of 70% opposition to the war among the American people–on handing Bush/Cheney another $100 billion to keep killing Iraqis until they signed over their oil rights, on endorsement of Bush/Cheney’s many, many crimes (”Impeachment is off the table.”), and, now, on Bush/Cheney criminal spying on the American people and all of its office holders.
The Democratic Party establishment actually joined this fascist coup back in October 2002, when they supported the Diebold/ES&S takeover of our election system. Not many people know it (wonder why?) but, around that time, 56% of the American people opposed the Iraq War (Feb. ‘03). The political establishment knew it, though, and they were well aware that it would only grow bigger, as the peace-minded, justice-minded American MAJORITY got onto this heinous, unjust war. 56% is a significant majority. It would be a landslide in a presidential election (and believe me, it was). Now it’s 70% against the war, and Diebold/ES&S is still at work, blatantly REVERSING the will of the American people.
We can win one, here and there, by outvoting the machines, but the fascists can shape the whole. For every one we win, they can tweak two fascists–D or R, doesn’t matter–into office. (FL-13 was no doubt one of the must-wins for the overall fascist coloration of Congress in ‘06.)
I have little doubt that this is what Karl Rove’s RNC emails are about, and why they are buried deep, deep.
This analysis of the situation by Scarecrow is brilliant. I agree with every word. But I grow impatient with leftist (majorityist) analysis that does not include the practical, strategic issue of POWER. What is our power against these fascists? The ONLY power that the American people have is our power to throw the bums out. Our right to vote. That IS our sovereignty as a people, or at least its practical mechanism.
And it has been taken away. Elections with SECRET vote counting, under PRIVATE, PARTISAN control, are not elections. They are tyranny. This Diebold II Congress proves it every day. Would you ever have thought that a Democratic sweep in 2006 would result in an ESCALATION of the war, or ENDORSEMENT of domestic spying without a warrant?
But it has now happened, and we had better face up to HOW IT WAS DONE, or our democracy is OVER.
“Trade secret” vote counting is not the only thing wrong with our election system. But it is the democracy-killer. It prevents a change of course. It prevents reform.
The only place feasible place to fix our voting system now is in the local/state jurisdictions, where ordinary people still have some influence. We should be picketing our country registrar down the street, instead of wasting our time trying to influence a DEAF, Diebold/ES&S (s)elected Congress. And it’s going to be a difficult, long term battle at that, given the widespread corruption of elections officials that HAVA has wrought. But it is one that we MUST win.
Praedor Atrebates @ 182
Hey Praedor, genius idea about immunity as looseheadprop said. Did you communicate this directly with Leahy? wanted to know how long this would take to get to him if you didn’t communicate with him directly.
Two posts, back to back, out of the park. Thank you Scarecrow, for your clarity and eloquence.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 49
You’re right, Vargas is pretty good. He did a great story on John Edwards this weekend. But when they teamed him up with Balz the story went downhill. Balz turned an Edwards story into a Hiliary story. Big surprise.
They break the law with impunity. They lie, torture, and obstruct.
The members of Congress who took an oath of office to support the constitution have an obligation to impeach.
The rest is noise.
N=1 @ 177
Glad you found the link. I had to dash off w/ my honey to buy paint for big project – yuck. Re-doing the rooms of kids now 30-somethings who have fledged – rooms never had a redo since they were toddlers. Don’t try to imagine. Please!?! *g*
p.s., love the mind-pic of the chicks. Try to imagine the serious problems these people have trying to hand-rear Whooping Cranes to think wild. The contortions the people go thru to keep the chicks from imprinting on humans, and to realize what other Whoopers are – well, it’s hilarious. Google the name George Archibald, and Whooping Crane. He was in grad school with us, & started that whole project. He was kinda nuts, in a good sorta way, so it helped. With other kinds of cranes that were captive/tame, he’d sometimes join in with them on their courtship dances. Hopefully there are YouTubes around. It was a long time ago, but a must-see for a sure smile.
How about asking Democratic representatives who voted for the new FISA law:
“Exactly how did Bush blackmail you to vote that way?”
PRINCIPLES…
Is the unilateral invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation that posed no imminent threat to the U.S. an American Principle?
Is fraudulently selling that invasion based on KNOWN false evidence, to a Joint Session of Congress (01/28/03) an American Principle?
Is indefinite detention of persons suspected and accused but not charged or tried nor found guilty an American Principle?
Is attempting to withhold Habeas Corpus Rights and Due Process from persons suspected and not charged an American Principle?
Is choosing which Treaties and Conventions to follow based on convenience an American Principle?
Is torture an American Principle?
Is warrentless wiretapping of American citizens an American Principle?
Is the rewriting of National Security Letters so as to cover what was otherwise illegally seized an American Principle?
Is the the politicization of the DoJ an American Principle?
Is signing unconstitutional bills into Law an American Principle?
Is usurping the co-equal Branches of our Government via signing statements an American Principle?
Is being involved in the outing a covert CIA agent an American Principle?
THE – NEW – AMERICAN – PRINCIPLES?
They are when good men do nothing, letting worse men institute new policies that set the groundwork for unAmerican principles to take root. Even worse is when good men accommodate the worse men and vote to enshrine these new principles into laws, theories, and other principles of being. Egregiously far worse, is when good men continue to do nothing thus codifying these new principles, inturn validating these worse men as exceptional men for their wisdom and brilliance at undermining what Real American Principles are.
So Congress,
It is times like this where facades MUST fall. What are your American Principles and how do you comport them into your Duty? You aren’t supporting and defending the Constitution of the USA, when you allow and tolerate the usurpations of the Constitution of the U.S.A. and the Constitutional Laws derived from therein.
Impeach and Convict those who have perpetrated these crimes against the people.
Then – End this war!
If certain acts in violation of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them, and we are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal, conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoked against us.
- Justice Robert Jackson, Chief Prosecutor for the United States, Nuremberg Tribunals, 1947
Praedor A. @ 182 -
Just checked back here. Sorry to take so long to respond. Absolutely copy and post away with anything that is of help (on this or other comments). Also note my follow-up comment late in the next thread [the ‘Hard Knock Life’ thread - in which I reposted the comment at 173 here near the top with an extra line or two from the Congressional Record, so you might want to use that version instead], that the Rules Committee Caveat part of my comment at 173 here may be (and I think is) wrong. We need to confirm whether or not the Rules Committee met on Saturday with a staffer or member (Christy for one is working the phones on this issue today, as indicated in the next thread).
And I want to concur with the others: that’s an outstanding suggestion of yours @ 50 for Pat Leahy about Mr. Tamm (if he is in fact the whistleblower, and even if he could only testify in closed session to the Intelligence Committees). That raid infuriates me.
Praedor A. – To follow-up on my #192, I just checked the end of the next thread, and found a comment from selise, who has contacted the Rules Committee and received information indicating that the committee probably did not meet on Saturday [which would mean the unanimous consent request did the deed on its own] – she may learn more if her Rep.’s office returns her call. FYI:
“:What we know now is that we have to reestablish the fundamentals within our own party — starting with the wisdom and necessity of having a Constitution and limits on government power…”
The key is in defining an making the 9th Amendment operational. It is the Hidden Imam, the Arc of the Covenant, the Holy of Holies of the American Democratic experiment. It reserves the powers not elsewhere delegated for the people. This Amendment created the concept “King of His Own Castle.”
What you do on your own property, assuming you are the “Lord of the Fee”, you are sovereign. You can fuck, smoke, dance, shout, pray, sing, and think what you may. But you are not allowed to exercise these rights. Because the branches of government and the ecclesiastical governments of the churches, and the MPAA believe that only the trained and sanctioned should have such freedom…because your moral soul is at risk.
So give me the 9th or give me death. This is the keystone to American liberty. This is why we fight.
Tanbark @ 176
Love the sound of your bark, Tan!!
Adm. Mullen has been WAY outspoken for a Bushie Stooge . . . he’s hope for us all.
As much as I hate to concur, your general view (which you’ve spouted for 2 years or more now now) that to get out of this alive, we have to brand the Iraq War on The Bushie’s Forehead all the way up to Election Day, in order to BURY them, well . . . given all the failings we’ve had on the Dem Side, your general view is all that’s left to hope for.
And until the blogosphere, the BIG DOGS of the blogosphere, who are now so obviously dominated by MSM goals and desires to be noticed, funded, and now unionized, until the blogosphere GETS it, it will be Bush Lite and no constitutional rights for anyone.
We all now have to proceed with a complete dismantlement of what we have for a system of government and begin replacing each and every elected official beholden to big money.
Rebuild our government one rep, one district at a time . . . hard work.
Peace Patriot @ 184
Start to finish, spot on.
Rightous, too.
Thanks.
Just thought I’d mention that the letters section of the San Francisco Chronicle led with FOUR pro-impeachment messages today. Don’t know what that means, but the Chron is still the MSM, even if here in Commie NorCal.
jayt @ 29
The Chair of the SSIC (Rockefeller) voted AGAINST IT! As did Reid, the other member of the “Gang of 8″ who is “fully” briefed on the content of the law. On the House side no present of former Democratic member of the “Gang of 8″ supported the Senate (Bush) bill.
Solai @ 42
I can hear the Pugs now screaming “But YOU voted for it! YOU voted for IT! How can you say it was IMPEACHABLE, when you voted FOR IT!”
Here is my question for Glenn Greenwald and David Rivkin
If it is determined that there are enemies of the nation within the Bush administration can they be wiretapped by the NSA?
I sure hope so.