Glenn Greenwald has a very telling interview with Chris Dodd at Salon, where Dodd describes what happened in the Senate with the habeas battle and the Military Commissions Act:
GG: I want to ask you about habeas restoration. And the first question I want to ask you is this – obviously, the reason why it is so difficult now is because you have to get a veto-proof majority in order to restore habeas. But had the habeas elimination statute not been enacted in October, we wouldn’t be in this situation now. Was there a real consideration in the caucus about filibustering the Military Commissions Act?
CD: I’m smiling because . . . I have this book coming out on the 12th. . . . I tell the story of what happened with the Act. There was a caucus meeting. Carl Levin makes the case that this may be the best we can do. It’s not great, but it’s not as bad as it could be, and we’ve got the support of John Warner and John McCain and Lindsey Graham. They’re fighting and they’re going to stick with us and keep this thing on a basic constitutional level.
And Pat Leahy spoke up and I spoke up and Leahy was very clear — this may be the worst potential vote if it goes sour on us — the last vote, the [Iraq] Authorization, didn’t matter as much because Bush was going to war no matter what. This was real, it had real effects. The other thing [about the Iraq AUMF] – now we know they were going to do it anyway.
GG: Right – they only sought a vote in advance on the war once they knew they would win it.
CD: Right. So then they mark the bill up in the Armed Services Committee, and of course the three Senators who voted for it were lobbied, and they changed it dramatically. It was really what caused me to become so concerned about it.
And I was on the floor of the Senate, one of those spontaneous moments, and I was with Byron Dogran, and we were both talking about it — this is really bad — and we spontaneously walked into Harry Reid’s office and we said we want to filibuster, and he said, “look, you’ll have 10 votes.”
And a lot of guys here, we went through Max Cleland, in 2002, and all the morphing and so forth. In a sense, it was one of those moments, because at the end, there were 34 votes against it. And I think had we really had worked it a little longer, we could have produced those 40 votes.
I want you to re-read this passage again, because I had to read it several times to appreciate how genuinely unprepared, disorganized an non-strategic the leadership response was on one of the most important issues of our time, the destruction of habeas corpus. God bless Chris Dodd for trying, but he and Dorgan wandering into Reid’s office and Reid saying “have a Coke and a smile, guys, not gonna happen”? That’s pretty shocking.
I know we were all shaking our heads with dismay about how easily Bush bullied Congress into passing the FISA legislation, but from a strategic point of view it makes no sense. Bush wanted two things — a) the updating of the FISA bill to include the ability to wiretap foreign-to-foreign communications that were routed through the US, which even Russ Feingold said was necessary and b) language that essentially gave him the ability to spy on anyone without a warrant. Why for the love of Mary did the Democrats not craft a bill legislating “a” and when Bush refused to sign it because it did not include “b” did they not scream from the high holy heavens that he was not giving the intelligence community the tools it needed to do its job? It was the perfect moment to pivot back on the Republicans and protect our civil liberties at the same time. But it would have required some strategic thinking and forethought that Chris Dodd’s tale indicates is just not a part of how these decisions get made.
During his breakout session at YearlyKos Dodd was critical of Senate leadership for not forcing Republicans to actually filibuster, they are allowed to obstruct everything simply with the threat of filibuster. I realize dealing with the GOP is always going to be an encounter fraught with problems, but we all worked hard to help the Democrats win back he majority last fall. They need to develop a bit more dexterity at using it.
Related posts:
- Dodd: Reprimanding Lieberman is “Ridiculous”
- Jon Tester Would Vote for Schumer’s Public Option: That’s 51
- Republicans Move to Permit Credit Card Companies to Jack Up Their Rates for the Next Several Weeks
- Chris Matthews Misleads Viewers on Viability of Public Option
- Advice on Health Care Reform from Malcolm X: Don’t Be a Chump





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zed
Jane!!
Hey Mitch, how bout them Yankees.
Dang, you’re fast, Big Mitch!
Jane! KOBE!
In this house we like Senator Dodd. We don’t like Harry.
I think the Yankees are the best ball club ever. And I’m an A’s fan.
can’t listen to any more of this damn yankee talk. thanks for another great post, Jane.
Shhh, Mitch, no sports talk here.
On Topic: Every time Dodd opens his mouth, I am more impressed with him. Not impressed enough to change from my first choice John Edwards, but I have a new second choice.
Except for that troublesome Kucinich. Everything he says, I agree with. But I don’t think he has the personality to run successfully against Mitt Romney or Rudy Giuliani.
We may know Rudy is a joke, but watching him appeal to reptile brains is a scary proposition.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 7
This Yankee team the best baseball team ever. . .come on.
Is there a leadership school we can send these guys to (male and female both) so they understand what tools they have and how to use them? Not to mention teaching them about the Constitution and their Congressional role under it?
Jane
What you say sounds exactly right- would love to hear an answer to it.
Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.
What bothers me is that Levin isn’t asking for money, although he’s running for reelection. What does that tell you??
And there’s nobody we could put up against him. I can’t even believe I have to think about primarying the man because he has one of the best records in the Senate, but there you go.
Dammit.
2 great posts in a row, Jane! But what are they doing in Congress if they’re not thinking about the far-reaching consequences of the stuff on which they’re voting?
Tweety is showing the actual footage of Mit’s meltdown instead of that dumb ass clip they showed when Jane was on last night.
Again and again, it seems like the Dems treat the leadership of the houses of Congress like they work at the Kwik-E Mart, and all they have to do is show up and pour Squishees.
“CD: Right. So then they mark the bill up in the Armed Services Committee, and of course the three Senators who voted for it were lobbied, and they changed it dramatically. It was really what caused me to become so concerned about it.”
I want to know exactly who lobbied them. Who are these people?
Thank you for bring this to the light of day, Jane.
Even though reading it just.makes.me.sick!
When are Dems going to realize that this is not just a pickup sandlot ballgame. This is the future of their kids, our kids, the whole world, and jr. is just throwing it all down the toilet.
I can’t believe they didn’t know.
In case anyone’s interested, C-Span has that schmuck Kyle Sampson’s hearing before the Sen. Judic. Comm. on right now. Too late. At this point it’s just twisting the knife. *blergh*
OT, but a little ray of sunshine, David Palmer withdrew his nomination to head the EEOC.
but we all worked hard to help the Democrats win back he majority last fall. They need to develop a bit more dexterity at using it.
I e-mailed Olbermann, suggesting that he ask the Dem candidates tomorrow night, within the framework of the FISA vote, about the lack of focus and strategy within the Democratic party, and what the candidates would do, as the leader of that party, about it.
“Why for the love of Mary did the Democrats not craft a bill legislating “a” and when Bush refused to sign it because it did not include “b” did they not scream from the high holy heavens that he was not giving the intelligence community the tools it needed to do its job? It was the perfect moment to pivot back on the Republicans and protect our civil liberties at the same time.”
Outstanding, Ms. Hamsher. You’ve caught the essence of forming a good attack; both from the strategic as well as the tactical. THIS is the kind of thinking we need from our D teamers in both houses. THIS kind of thinking leads to WINNING.
Alas, have my beloved D teamers forgotten what it takes to WIN?
Ghostman
one of the most important issues of our time
I have the feeling that there is no such animal in the minds of a majority of the Senate. Election is Job 1, 2 and 3. Everything else is a nice-to-have.
Speaking of meltdowns, Jim Cramer had one heckuva meltdown.
He seems to think the bottom is falling out and the chattering class is just gladhanding everyone before the fall.
I’m melting, melting.
-GSD
“Pivot back on the Republicans” seems not to be in the Harry Reid playbook. I wonder what’s in his NSA file, or in the NSA file of a loved one.
These guys are politicians, right? Doesn’t that require some political thinking, with respect to opponents? Why is it so challenging for them?
And if it is so challenging for them, couldn’t they pick up a blog or two, read Jane or Glenn, and buy a clue?
LS @ 17
These people are Cheney.
raven @ 10
What I’m saying is that the big picture is that yes, the Yankees define baseball. The Yankees are the best! I didn’t mention “this” Yankee team. ;0)
N=1 @ 19
OT, but a little ray of sunshine, David Palmer withdrew his nomination to head the EEOC.
There’s another recess appointment to look forward to.
Rayne – if you are still on would you please email me at afeadie at aol com
I’m in Walberg’s district…
Thanks
Oklahoma kiddo @ 7
:P!!!
It’s not hard to understand why former Vice President Gore doesn’t want to spend any more time in the seamy political world. Our loss.
It’s so simple for us. Public financing of elections.
I can hear your frustration, Jane.
Is there ANY way you can use your contacts to infiltrate the leadership and SHOW THEM THE G*DAMNED Way?
Your torch is sorely needed in DC. Glad you’re going there. Hope you make some much-needed inroads.
Much love and light,
J
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
Gotcha. And for those who are all grumpy about sports, they get talked about all the time on the Lake, ask emptywheel and those damn wolverines or Christy and the eers!
Okay, this may seem dumb as a box of hair, but I have to ask. If the Democrats are unconcerned with preserving habeas corpus and preserving our privacy re: the FISA debacle on Saturday, what are they concerned with?
What will it take to remove Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi from leadership, and install some of these who actually seem like they want to fight back instead of closing their eyes and thinking of England yet AGAIN?
-S
LS @ 17
The statement implies there is an anti-habeas lobby in DeeCee — which is pretty sickening until you realize it’s the Executive Branch doing the anti-habeas lobbying.
What has our country become?
LS – EPU’d from below, for your viewing pleasure”
LS @ 230
looseheadprop @ 226
LS
Is that LS don’t be silly…or LS something else?
LS, I will take a quick stab at your question. Theoretically, yes it is a pathway, but not a likely one. Even if Congress legislated standing, I am not sure there is a cognizable question or controversy that could get beyond a Rule 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss because there is still no way to prove you, the plaintiff, were specifically harmed. More importantly, why would our leaders have the guts to do this when they could have solved the problem just by saying “Hey, not so fast, let’s think about this before we act”.
Sounds as if there is little formal communication or group planning in the senate. In business, no department or division would go into an important meeting without hours of group meeting and strategizing about the issue- here it doesn’t seem to happen..
Could be that they can’t depend on their own group to keep their mouths shut about what is said in private- and of course they are mostly lawyers- who are notoriously shitty managers.
GSD @ 23
it might be a good thing if someone in Mr Cramer’s circle of supporters approached him with the thot of cutting back on his “meds”.
surely….
same with tweety….
Oklahoma kiddo @ 6
Harry really is that clueless. How the heck did he ever get in a position to become Majority Leader? For a former boxer, he sure likes to take a beating.
There are many who say Gore won’t. And there are many saying that at the end of the day, he will.
Mr. Gore. Come blow Rudy, Hillary and Obama out of the water. Mother Earth needs you.
It just boggles the mind, that the very people we elect to do the peoples business can’t seem to find the time to consider a long term strategy in making things right. every one of these miscreants took an oath to preserve and protect the gift we were given in the Constitution and save covering the pathetic asses of the commander in chief, the AG and God knows who else, they sell the American people out. If that isn’t to be considered treason or high crimes I don’t know what is.
All I know is that since the two votes taken Friday and Saturday, the country I know and love will never be the same again and that in fact, there is no difference between the two parties as they both answer to some other authority that compels them to continue destroying what the founding fathers assured us till the end of time.
Nancy Pelosi’s sellout!
This is EPU’d from last night. I don’t know how many of you saw then, but I believe that a lot more people should read it and understand just how craven and duplicitous the Dem leadership is.
Jane, you have hit this nail right on the head. The Dem leadership is too much like corporate CEOs who are so worried about meeting this quarter’s numbers that they don’t see that their company is losing market share, has failed to make necessary long term infrastructure investment or do some other long range planning necessary for the company’s overall survival.
They are reactive rather than proactive and do not think strategiacally. They should all be sent to chess camp.
Tin foil hat time: I noticed on Sataurday that the House spent alomost hte entire day (which should have been spent focused on the FISA bill) debating an ammending the environmental bill.
The environmental bill seems to actually have some decent stuff in it and looks like a lot of work on both sides of the ailse went into it. I saw a number of ammendments made with no or gentle opposition from the GOP side of the aisle.
What if at that dinner that Nancy had with Shrub, he offered to let the Reps go easy on the environmental bill, if she would go easy on the evil version of the FISA bill?
Did she think she was getting a quid pro quo?
Cause if so, she got totally punked, since the next day Bush said he was going to veto this very detailed and very bi-partisan environemental bill.
HMMMM? Could that be why she fired off that letter to Waxman saying she wanted to undo the FISA bill? Was she thinking this would frighten Shrub into not vetoing he environmetnal bill, so she could say “look the do nothing COngress did something, and all you voters out htere should care more about emissions standards than you do about the shredding of the constitution”
I DO CARE about emissions standards, but if this dim bulb would just stop trying to have her cake and eat it too, and do the job the American people elected dems to 2004 to do——Re-establish the rule of law–well, then she would have a done her fekkin job AND have her emissions standards at the back end as well.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 39
Maybe he’s on queer street!
That’s an astounding story of bad leadership and it does not reflect well on Dodd that he didn’t take more extraordinary steps himself.
The starting lineup today included Johnny Damon, .345 on base % leading off, and 7 batters hitting > .290, plus Bobby Abreau, lifetime .301. Mariano Rivera, the greatest reliever of all time, closed it out.
Not a bad argument for “this” Yankee team.
Hey, I started this conversation at #2 above, when I thought I was alone. Sorry, Jane.
With this kind of leadership, how did Reid become the Majority Leader?
LS @ 17
Me too!
Cramer IS a meltdown– still- it may be a good time to reduce exposure- I just went from an equity/bond balance of 70/30 down to 55/45. I smell some rough sledding.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 40
Every thing the others do makes Gore look better and better. He’s THE natural leader of the bunch.
Period.
GSD @ 23
The market went up 300 points today. Very weird.
I made a joke the other day when Silvestre Reyes was “Pontificating” about FISA… that someone should send him to a “Toastmasters” class.
But this is really getting old.
Is there ANY WAY that Jane and Marcy, et. al, can start a “political strategy 101″ business to take these pathetic excuses for “Political Representatives” to school?
Jane, as you point out, succinctly:
“I want you to re-read this passage again, because I had to read it several times to appreciate how genuinely unprepared, disorganized an non-strategic the leadership response was on one of the most important issues of our time, the destruction of habeas corpus. God bless Chris Dodd for trying, but he and Dorgan wandering into Reid’s office and Reid saying “have a Coke and a smile, guys, not gonna happen”? That’s pretty shocking.”
This is the same b*llsh*t that happened with FISA! In both Chambers!!!
Lea-no uh @ 14
I suspect they are thinking about the ‘08 election and positioning for that. They may be right..the ‘08 election may have the most far-reaching consequences of any election in our life-times.(Of course the Republicans may be grabbing more power so there won’t be elections in ‘08..difficult times..difficult questions)
rwcole @ 48
Time to diversify a bit. I’m selling all my Beanie Babies and investing in 1$ scratch tickets.
-GSD
lhp
Believe me- what Jane describes is NOTHING AT ALL- like CEO behavior.
Can we sponsor a Glen Greenwald/FDL ‘Here are the Tools at Congress’s Disposal’ seminar for the Dems in Congress? Because, I mean, Jeebus deep fried on a stick do these people lack any clue whatsoever about how government works.
Maybe we can squeeze a fifteen minute pep-talk on using the ‘dry powder’ in there, too.
LS @ 17
Unless I’m mistaken this refers to Graham, McCain, and Warner getting reamed by the WH about their deviation from the King’s command. Properly chastised they reaffirmed their fealty and caved on their so-called principles.
The dumb Democratic strategists don’t realize that the election that mattered was 2006. America was looking for a lifeline and got an anchor instead.
-GSD
Well, it sounds to me that the current crew of Democrats just don’t have enough heart to take on the greater issues of the day, no matter how good a game they talk. If we made a list, the #1 position would be Dems lack strategic thinking. #2 We lack the ability to see problems prior to them becoming huge problems. #3 Dems don’t know which of their leaders to follow, or when to switch to a new line of thinking. Do you think we could go on for a long time and end up with a list almost as long as Hugh’s?
Eureka Springs @ 47
Probably Lieberman was one of the lobbyers.
GSD @ 23
My office is on an office building corridor. The building enxt to us housed a main office of a mortgage comapy that just went into bankrupcy. 7,000 employees are out of work. Bankers are out of work.
ANd how many bad mortagaes does tha represent?
The bottom is falling out. ANd just like Bill Clinton had to clean up the econmic mess left by Reagen/Bush and expend all sorts of political capital fixing mistakes made by others,
The next president is going to spend the entire first term and ll the honeymoon bounce just trying to avert a Depression
raven @ 43
huh?
Ghostman @ 21
Can you tell Glenn Greenwald is staying with me?
“Why for the love of Mary did the Democrats not craft a bill legislating “a” and when Bush refused to sign it because it did not include “b” did they not scream from the high holy heavens that he was not giving the intelligence community the tools it needed to do its job? It was the perfect moment to pivot back on the Republicans and protect our civil liberties at the same time. But it would have required some strategic thinking and forethought that Chris Dodd’s tale indicates is just not a part of how these decisions get made.”
Bold is mine.
Jane,
No “Strategic” thinking was required. Merely “thinking” was required.
It seems lobotomies have taken place when our Democratic Congress folks first arrived in DC ’cause there was no apparent “thinking” at all available in our Demcratic leadership.
What else could explain so stupendously stupid results on their part?
As I said earlier this morning and worth repeating:
Thanks Harry and Nancy!
You sold my constitutional rights for a few weeks of vacation. What a bargain!
Thanks so much!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 50
Stock market is often volatile at turning points, when some investors change their minds sooner than others. Economy is sluggish & full effects of sub-prime disaster not yet felt.
I don’t worry too much about those, however, since if economy or credit situation or stock market gets too bad, the Fed will ease. The positive influence of lower interest rates on P/Es can be impressive.
So I’d expect a stock market correction, but not a meltdown.
That forecast is good ’til cancelled.
Past performance is no guaranty . . . or whatever all the disclaimers are.
phred @ 57
RNC maybe also.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 40
It is this hope that keeps me afloat.
Adie on Gore…
Lahoma says, ;0)!
Adie @ 38
Cramer is probably closer to the reality of the economy than a lot of others. For myself, I would not at all be surprised if the bottom is falling out of things.
rwcole @ 48
I went to 25 percent when the second carrier battle group was sent to the Gulf.
Ecah,
Won’t the Feds easing cause more foreign investors to dump their dollar holdings?
-GSD
BigMitch @ 62
The old meaning
“Expression used when a boxer is groggy and dazed from the effects of one or more punches. “Smith had Jones on Queer Street.”
Strategerie @ 34
I may be mistaken, but I think we are stuck with them until the next Congress convenes (or unless their districts have a recall election). I think once the leadership is selected at the beginning of each Congress it remains in place. Does anyone know of a way to remove them at this point in the session?
barbara @ 67
;0)
Jane Hamsher @ 63
Ooh, two peas in a pod! Did ya hook up through e-harmony?!!! 8-)
Jane, Has anyone had a chance to read Dodds book early? Would it be appropriate topic for this blogs book salon? *s*
Huh — my TSP (Federal equivalent of 401(k)) is split 75% Government securities, 15% bonds, 10% stocks…
BigMitch @ 45
raven @ 72
Got it. It did seem out of place, and I knew there had to be an explanation.
phred @ 73
No recalls for Federal elections.
Bris
Now THAT’S safe!
BigMitch @ 79
Me, say something out of place! Neeeever.
It gladdens my heart to see a glimmer of strategy beginning to form after the turn of events in the last few days. The big under used advantage is the subversive nature of the web, the unconventional wisdom, and wild ideas are the way forward. If we are to have any future as a free people, If the MSM and the politicians think we canbe co-opted we have them at a weak point in their thinking.
They are either Lazy or Too Scared to stand up and fight!! I really think many have been in office too long and need to go. I am sooo disappointed (not shocked though) in Bob Casey and all Dems who caved in on this FISA vote.
That pix at the top looks so very presidential. Looks like a leader.
rwcole @82, I did mine that way when I found out that Alan Greenspan was keeping most of his money in Government Securities, way back when…
I don’t get spectacular growth, but I haven’t lost much either.
“Rudy’s daughter backs Barack”
OUCH- that’s gotta hurt!!
Them ol family values goopers with dysfunctional families are at it again- and Rudy’s the LEADER of this box of rocks.
rwcole @ 55
I’m comparing it to bad CEO behavior. Shortsighted CEO behavior. Behavior of those who allow the comapny to e hollowed out b/c they are so afraid not making that quarter’s Wall Street predicitons.
GSD @ 71
Are you talking about India’s & China’s holdings of U.S. treasuries? If so, the answer is not really, looked at from a variety of ways. Most impt is that it is not in their self interest to initiate a run in an asset that they own so much of (otherwise known as: large borrowers own the bank). Another important reason: sell treasuries to by what? Don’t think other fixed income markets are liquid enough to accomodate large inflows with causing bubble.
Itsa big problem for Indians & Chinese, which is why they are starting to diversify their assets. What they really need to do is encourage domestic consumption and reduce saving, but they’re obviously not listening to that advice.
The usual influence of adverse foreign capital flows is a pileon one; they can make a bad situation worse but do not usually initiate a turning point.
And since this stock correction seems to be hop scotching around the world, it’s not obvious that selling U.S. stocks to buy elsewhere is such a brilliant move either.
As they say, applied to another situation, these are the times that try mens’ souls.
phred @ 73
My husband came into our room last night before we went to sleep and announced to me he’s seriously thinking about leaving the Democratic Party. My response? “Where would we go?”
I’d like to give the benefit of the doubt and say that perhaps this was all an accident, but any thinking person has to finally come to the realization that some of these people do not work for us. They’re working against us, while telling us that they have “no choice”. They are more concerned with keeping the status quo than actually representing those who’ve pounded their offices with e-mails, faxes, phone calls, letters and in person visits over the past six and a half years.
Here’s a question: What’s the payoff for them? It can’t be just cash.
-S
rwcole @ 87
That DLC triangle has got to hurt.
Okay. Suspend your disbelief and play “Let’s Pretend” with me.
Let’s pretend that there really is/was a compelling reason(s) for some of the Dems to vote with BushCo on the FISA bill.
Let’s pretend that it had nothing to do with what BushCo has on them individually and collectively.
What then? What do your fine minds home in on as a possible reason? And why some Dems but not all?
As you were.
test
looseheadprop @ 89
that appears to be all the current CEO’s care about…
As a nutmegger I am so proud of Chris Dodd. His support of Lamont over Lieberman showed me what he is made of. A man of substance unlike Bill Clinton who showered Joe with his luv during last year’s election. Dodd has simply been a terrific senator for CT. Having said all that, I fear he can’t overcome the the hurdles he is facing. May he prove me wrong.
LS @ 66
Perhaps, but I remember that following Graham’s, McCain’s, and Warner’s very public opposition to the bill — primarily predicated on the exposure of our military personnel abroad to torture by other governments on account of the MCA — they were called up to the White House “for a meeting” to see if there was a way that “their concerns could be addressed”. It was all made to appear that the WH was willing to compromise, but in the end all three completely caved and Bush got exactly what he wanted.
barbara @ 92
Damn, you a drill sergeant?
The ease with which this bill passed both Houses, and with the support of my Senator, Dianne Feinstein, was shocking to me…
All of the Dems who supported this pathetic bill should be ashamed of themselves…they were bullied into it by a president with a 28% approval rating, and their desire to go on vacation.
I can’t tell you how angry I am, and I did let Feinstein’s office know though…
phred @ 73
We know they can resign. I assume that if enough pressure where brought to bear, that might happen–but I would think that would be a tough lift.
barbara @ 92
It is the 6th anniversay of Bin Laden determined to attack U.S.
lhp
Yeah- that IS bad behavior- and VERY common- most of em figure that they’ve got at least two years- but the narrative needs to unfold by quarter. No one is interested in a three year narrative that ends in success- they know that they’d be gone by then and someone else would scrape up the accolades.
Isn’t this totally riveting?
Two GOP contenders duel over religion
Most heated Iowa battle wages over bigotry and hypocrisy
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20148464/
raven @ 96
You’d have to ask my children! *g*
barbara @ 102
Very similar job description. (:
Gosh you’re being kind.
What the Dems need is an emergency spinal transplant. And I know that’s been said over and over and over, to the point it’s become trite, but I honestly don’t know of any other way to describe what happend last week with this bill.
They ran scared.
Period.
Obviously Reid et. al. think what they are doing has absolutely no importance whatsoever. Why they’re just a bunch of guys and gals sitting around with their feet up on their desks.
It’s just all talk, talk, talk … it doesn’t sound like all our worries about blackmail and fear are founded at all. They are very comfortable. None of it matters.
If they don’t care then there’s nothing anyone can do to educate them about strategy.
This is a real problem.
This congress is not going to do anything about any of this.
What a mess.
I know there are individual congress members with passion; they must be so frustrated by their lack of impact on this nonsense … kinda like us.
Dodd himself seems more perplexed than outraged.
This is great information ~ thanks Jane & Glenn.
Fuckin’ Tweety is a knucklehead.
“Wallstreet Journal /NBC poll. I don’t think it is fair, but it is public opinion. The Democrats are better at ballancing the budget, The Democrats are better at reducing government spending, the democrats are better at lowering taxes. Gimme a break!” (Said with a tone that suggests that people who believe this should be hospitalized at Belleview or St. Elizabeth’s)
Help me out here: What was the party of the last president with a balanced budget? The one time this asshole won’t say “Clinton did it!”
No war in Iraq. That would take care of reducing government spending.
The Rethugs at their debate last night mostly endorsed a 23% sales tax!!!! (I shit you not!) Supposedly this would replace capital gains and income tax. Will it lower your taxes? Not mine.
raven @ 103
I’ll concur with both of ya!!! ;-)
rwcole @ 100
to the detriment of the common good.
Strategerie @ 90
Boy, I wish I knew… For the life of me I cannot figure it out. Maybe Jane’s right and they are shortsighted ignorant rubes “unfit to run a lunch counter” (H/T to Sen. Leahy). But, it seems unlikely that they got to where they are by accident. So, then you got to think about what their motivations are…
Between the sniping and snarking there are ideas, and that is what they fear, they can not be mocked or shamed into responsible behavior. But unfiltered and unmanaged ideas, that force them to expose that they are working not for the countries best interest but their own ( both political and personal) is a weak point to explore. But hey I just some every day Joe, thats been around awhile.
Actually, I found Dodd’s cavalier and self-serving aside about the Iraq AUMF every bit as disturbing as his revelations about how habeas got sold down the river.
I say “self-serving” because Dodd, let’s not forget, voted for the Iraq AUMF. For him to say now that that vote really didn’t matter because Bush would have gone to war anyway is a shocking abdication of his responsibility as a legislator.
For Bush to initiate a war in the absence of both a UN Security Council resolution and Congressional approval would have been far more of an uphill slog than Dodd implies, possibly necessitating the fabrication of a Tonkin-style provocation or relying upon the first of many transparently dubious overstretchings of the Afghanistan AUMF.
Dodd is probably right that Bush would have found a way to go to war no matter what, but Dodd’s just covering his own ass in claiming that the Iraq AUMF didn’t grease the skids substantively, complicitly, and tragically.
Imagine. One of these days I’ll only have to fight one political party, instead of two. Like in ‘the day’.
Chris Dodd is my favorite second-tier candidate, and one of the reasons is that he is more exercised about defending the Constitution than any of the other candidates. My hope is that Dodd does well enough to get his signature issue into the debate of the front-runners, as happened in 2003-2004, when Dean didn’t survive in the primaries, but several of his signature issues did.
BTW, on another subject that I don’t remember getting much attention last week:
Bob in HI
Not covered by congressional medical plan.
I give Dodd huge props for making the Constitution and Bill of Rights such a big part of his campaign. Shit, maybe I’ll even vote for him.
The one before that was JFK, iirc.
eCAHNomics @ 114
LOL in anguished fashion
ralphbon @ 113
You are right. Dodd’s not clean at all.
Sorry, folks things will only get better in the Senate when we get better leadership. Senator Reid’s time has come and gone, he does not seem to have the energy, dedication and vision that is now required for these testy times, until we recognize and accept that fact, I am afraid that we will be constantly in limbo.
Whenever I watch Reid gives a press conference he seems to be just there in body but all lights are out elsewhere and if he does manages to say the right thing, his lack of passion makes it that no one seems to hear him.
BigMitch @ 108
Sales tax hits the poor harder than the rich. Capital gains tax hits the rich harder than the poor.
The very poor are currently exempt from income tax.
The very rich currently have to pay alterantive minimum tax if their shelter income nonetheless exceeds certain thresholds.
So, of course they want to replace taxes on the rich with taxes on the poor. You didn’t see that one coming?
Could simply be that W’s a bully and voters aren’t. It’s surprisingly difficult to stand up to a bully, especially when you’re so comfortably entrenched in office. And I’m sure Rove is well aware.
Gore isn’t even in the race. But what he will or won’t do is perhaps the most talked about subject within Democratic ranks. And the GOP.
I saw Dodd on a talking head show one day with Grinchrich, and he was waaaay to schmoozy with him..that did it for me.
eCAHNomics @ 116
I suggest we see to it that it’s added to their insurance benefits
As I said above, I found Dodd response astoundingly bad too. Even if he’s not in an official leadership position, that can’t stop him from trying, and trying, and trying again. The interview sounds like he made a half-*ssed effort & then gave up.
Perhaps Democratic movers and shakers are even more afraid of Gore than the Republicans. Do you think big business and the DLC dislikes him?
I have also heard this afternoon on Tom Hartmann or Randi Rhodes on Air America that the recent NIE said that there was a *very* low likelihood that there are any al Qaeda cells in the US.
So much for Chertoff’s gut, DiFi’s talk of increased chatter, and Bush’s threats of an attack if Congress did not bend to his will.
Disgusting.
And the Dems should know better. Much better. No one in the caucus should be afraid: but that would mean getting off their butts to stay on top of the information that they should be collecting and studying.
barbara @ 92
If there was a legitimate need prompted by a FISA judge’s ruling back in March (or was it January?), then why wasn’t there an intelligent debate to address what was needed? Why was it announced at the last possible minute, at which point we were told we couldn’t possibly wait one last minute (or a few more weeks) to resolve the problem in a credible way that could have garnered broad-based support. It’s ’cause that was not what Bush or the Congressional leadership wanted.
I understand why Bush wanted to pull a fast one, but I fail to see the advantage of it for Congress… Unless of course, there is something weighing on their minds (complicity in the spying (i.e. Nancy Pelosi’s membership in the Gang of 8 suggests she knows a lot about that but didn’t do anything to stop it; something to do with the Cunningham scandal (keep an eye on the Kontagiannis hearing — EW at TNH if you haven’t already), something else entirely, who knows?)
Sales taxes are extremely regressive as far as income goes- those with low incomes often spend MORE than they make- the wealthy spend much LESS than they make- so a “flat” sales tax takes much more proportionately from the poor than it does from the wealthy. The whole thing stinks so badly that the clowns were forced to name it “The FAIR tax”–it’s like “Clean Skies”–whatever goopers name something is exactly what it is not- do they think we aren’t ON to em by now?
Well must lay down for awhile this falcon only fly’s when he dreams and looks funny when he is walking around (but for the first time in months I was walking must be all that pent up frustration, now looking for a shoe to hit the TV politicians worst than many insects.).
People here do not to hear my measly evidence of a big downturn in the economy coming — but my daughter knows a couple where the man is the manages a bank. He reports that he would not be surprised if half the banks in our area have serious trouble within the next year. Some will make it, many won’t.
There is indeed rough sledding ahead.
If we Democrats are holding out for perfection, we’ve lost.
23% sales tax? And then junior would tell everyone to go shopping? No one but the well-off would be able to afford anything but food & toilet paper. How many of the repubs consulted with their retail donors on that idea…
looseheadprop @ 98
Yep, it seems unlikely that our Congress Critters would be inclined to press for their resignations given their tendency to avoid conflict (except with their base ;)
Congress is permeated by a bunch of unconscious dorks. Too bad.
As I read Dodd, he is saying he was mislead by Reid, either intentionally, or more likely, otherwise.
I would like to give these guys some slack because they have a different timeline than we do, and they want to see to it that we have the White House, and both houses of congress after the next election.
Everytime I disagree with their decision, be it Habeas or FISA or anything else, I ask myself, would I be happy if they had done as I wished, but we lost the next election? I know how they are thinking, but I can’t always answer the question for myself.
Excellent, Jane.
Now what are we supposed to do? It feels like we’re going in circles. We get Issue 1 apparently undertood with the Democrats, then we go on to the next issue, and we seem to have that worked out, and so on, and finally we get back around to review Issue 1 again, and suddenly find out that, while we were working on some other bit of sanity, the Democrats have collaborated in approving everything Bush asked for with respect to Issue 1.
Is all this quasi-intentional on the Democrats’ part? Are they just trying to appear to be opposed to Bush’s mad “policies,” while covertly backing them?
Has anything really changed since the Democrats got control of the legislature?
So discouraging! And I so have to keep smiling!
I could get behind a pole tax. A tax on customers of pole-dancing venues.
LS @ 137
apparently elected by a bunch of unconscious dorks.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 128
Gore was a founding member of the DLC.
We just finished watching the Sean Penn movie “All The King’s Men”. Sean Penn is a killer actor. And a man.
Elliott @ 140
Yes, a country of dorks – except us of course. /s
This is all 1994 thinking on their part.
Too many of them still are thinking that if they actually act like Democrats that they’ll pay for it — such as the direct cause-and-effect link drawn from their vote to undo the last of the Reagan-Bush tax cuts in 1993 (a move that saved our economy, by the way) and the loss of Congress to the Republicans the very next year.
They’ve spent way too much time listening to people like Marshall Wittman and Peter Beinart and Al From, the ones urging the Dems to run away from their base — meaning us.
Elliott @ 139
>>>>>
The Chris Dodd-Glenn Greenwald interview makes me very nervous. I had hoped that the Dems in Congress had some grand strategy (other than to preserve their seats) and now it appears that almost everything is ad hoc. There appears to be no party discipline and and no leadership. It looks like a party adrift. This doesn’t bode well for dealing with issues like the politicization of the regulatory agencies and the DOJ. It looks like all we will get is endless hearings exposing wrongdoing but never any accountability. Very distressing.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 142
Saw it last week. He’s amazing.
TeddySanFran @ 142
And now is hated by them almost as much as they hate Howard Dean.
LS @ 144
natch ;)
Who is surprised that the Democrats in Congress lack any strategic thinking? For the most part this bunch is feckless and hopeless. How long did it take for the Republicans to dominate American politics. 35-50 years of planning and scheming on how to subvert the constitution and the Republic. It will take 15-25 years before the Democrats are in a position to effectively counter the Republican propaganda and fear tactics but by then it really will be too late.
LS @ 146
Aw man, it got hammered in the reviews. . .really good huh?
Phoenix Woman @ 147
What a great endorsement for Gore!! *g*
TeddySanFran @ 142
I realize that. But I don’t think there is affection between the two any longer. I do not view the DLC as being strong supporters of Mother Earth.
BigMitch @ 138
Then they should tell us that. And they should have ‘run’ on that last year. Otherwise it’s lying. And they keep doing it. If this is so, when are they going to level with the people who voted for them and whom they (supposedly) want to vote for them again? Let us hear the truth and decide.
Cheerful boos for Hillary
At the YearlyKos convention, the mixed reception for Hillary Clinton is more evidence that the liberal blogosphere might not take sides in the coming Democratic primary.
http://www.salon.com/news/feat…..yearlykos/
The Congress is on vacation after abdicating the Constitutional
rights of the American people. It has made my dog Jake sick to his
stomach. He is so disgusted. So he went out and brought home
100lbs of fresh Salmon scraps to make a fish emulsion for the
last planting of Corn. He’s going to be burying the fish heads next to
the corn rows. Tells me to take the stink in stride as the results
will make a spectacular growth. I tell him such al lovely metaphor
for our current Congress. Seems we need a new batch of
Representatives in the next election!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 132
I’m still waiting for adequate ;)
raven @ 152
Lahoma and I highly recommend this flick. ;0)
Cat-herders ought to have a better idea how to handle the cats they’re herding.
This looks like sheep-herders trying to herd cats.
Teddy–Gore was also the senator who ran on guns/God/and dumping Roe/Wade. He was also the genius who decided not to invite the most successful president in recent history to campaign for him. He’s the guy who walked away from the fight in Florida- He’s the guy who picked Lieberman…He’s the guy who ran one of the clumsiest presidential campaigns I’ve ever seen.
I’ll support him if he’s the nominee- but when I look at Al Gore- I don’t see a hero.
LS @ 124
The thing to remember about most politicians is that they are essentially actors. Bad actors. Someone hands them a script and they play along, and if they fool enough people they get elected, again and again. No principles involved, it is all a charade. Inside, they stand for nothing, an empty suit for rent, a talking head that says what the money people tell them to. How can we expect people like this to have any concern for their constituents, or the constitution?
I’ve started looking at property in Europe. There is no viable opposition party to halt the drift to fascism.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 159
“Who built the highway to Baton Rouge”?
How could Nancy Pelosi sit down for a meal with George Bush? The thought turns my stomach. I realize they need to work together in some capacity, so I can see her going to his office. But eating with him? I don’t eat with people I find revolting.
Jane Hamsher @ 64
Hah! Well, I had to find Glenn’s column first on Salon– usually I catch the referral here, first, but I get the Salon’s daily abstract, and his headline snared me, so I read his column on Dodd on Salon first.
I am extremely disappointed in the leadership of the Democratic Party. They all seem SO out to lunch. Notice also that they COULD have stone-walled on the FISA bill, forcing a continuance over the recess, or a Bush call to force them back into session (which I would have liked to see). But they chose not to. The main reason that was offered is that they didn’t want to look “weak” on terrorism, but as a result, they looked extra weak on Bush, allowing themselves to get rolled over. And you know what John Q Public will get from that? “Democrats are weak.”
They would have won the day by stonewalling, protesting
(a) giving so much power to Gonzales, who is notoriously untrustworthy;
(b) relaxing “probable cause” to “reasonable belief” (oh, please. The WMD in Iraq were a “reasonable belief,” but were not sufficient for “probable cause.”)
(c) giving the administration a “get out of jail free” card for FISA crimes since 2001.
Here’s what I think happened: The leadership made a deal with the Blue Dogs: We won’t rein you in and enforce Party Discipline, but we’re gonna oppose the bill. All of the top leadership opposed the bill, but did little to stop it. I think they thought voicing opposition as individuals would give them sufficient cover for failing as party leaders.
Bob in HI
rwcole @ 161
picky picky :)
raven @ 152
See the original with Broderick Crawford. Won an academy award I believe. Remakes are rarely as good as the original.
I agree, Sam.
The more we increase the turn-over rate in Congress, the better.
And it would be really fun to see Libertarian, Green, and Independant politicians in greater numbers in both chambers. I’m pretty sure our right-wing neighbors also would like to see this.
raven @ 151
Sean Penn’s acting is really good. I thought the story dragged, but it was not his fault. That’s just my opinion on the day I watched it, but I’d watch it again just to be sure to give it a fair shake.
phred @ 158
Us too.
Loo Hoo. @ 165
Perhaps she does not find him revolting. She did take impeachment off the table — an action that is not her right to take.
Gore in 2008!
Bluetoe @ 168
That’s one reason I didn’t go, I’m pretty serious bout movies.
rwcole @ 161
The concept it that he’s learned from all that … but you are persuasive.
I’m very happy to see Edwards doing well. It seems he may have just enough experience to know what the dangers are: and he talks that way too. And he seems to have a passion for reform.
eCAHNomics @ 117
Maybe I don’t understand the question. Clinton DID balance the budget. Last one before Clinton was Carter, IIRC. I don’t think a Republican has balanced the budget since, maybe, Eisenhower.
Bob in HI
Loo Hoo. @ 164
I wonder what was on the menu? I wonder what they were drinking.
rwcole @ 160
One would hardly know from reading this comment that he won the 2000 election.
We voted for Gore/Lieberman. We know a lot more about Mr. Lieberman than we did then. This constant thing about Gore picking Lieberman is tedious.
rwcole @ 159
yes, but Al Gore 2.0 has strongly criticized this presidents’ various disastrous policies, distanced himself from his DLC past, and taken a very visible leadership role on the environment – a stand which has earned him considerable criticism from the wingers – and he hasn’t blinked once.
People can change, and he’s a great example.
LS @ 175
Pepto-bismol.
Seems to me that if you are speaker of the house and the president invites you to dinner- you go- even if he makes you gag. You are not there to satisfy your own sensibilities but to do the people’s business- and sometimes that means meeting with people who make ya puke.
TeddySanFran @ 171
She stated fairly recently that she likes him. She also said she thought his policies were wrong, but she did seem to have been sucked in by his flirty charm. She seems like a flirt to me. She’s apparently been had. Maybe she has learned that lesson…too late.
rwcole @ 161
At the risk of having Lahoma give me the silent treatment, I’ll have to agree.
TeddySanFran @ 172
I know I’m a fool Teddy, but I keep hoping that “taking impeachment of the table” is strategic. It’s getting ever harder for me to hold on to this delusion …
But you’re absolutely right, it isn’t her right to do take it off the table, it’s her responsibility to pursue it when necessary. And Lord knows, it’s necessary. Now more than ever.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 142
Haven’t seen the Sean Penn version but doubt it is as good as the Broderick Crawford version.
i don’t think the “unprepared, disorganized” response to the mca or fisa is necessarily reflective of incompetence – or even lack of courage. it could just be that for most of congress, this kind of policy issue is just not that important.
i bet their fundraising isn’t unprepared and disorganized.
Hoo- Life is full of risks.
Jake reminded me again that the fish rots from the head first.
So he’s volunteering to walk the streets of San Francisco wearing
a Go Cindy Shaheen placard when she actively runs against Pelosi.
Right now the fish heads are all floating in a 55 gallon drum of
H20.
Bob Schacht @ 173
Carter did not balance the federal budget. He followed the Reagan deficits and was prez during the second oil crisis when the economy hit the tubes. The last slight federal surplus before Clinton was JFK.
We think Edwards would make the right decisions if he were president.
RWCole – I saw earlier that you’re in Bilbray’s district – have you ever called his office? Talk about a wall that facts do not penetrate!
LS @ 176
Kool-Aid?
Bob in HI
hasn’t Dodd been a part of CFR (Council For Foreign Relations) for decades?
FDL really needs to do an article on the A * I* P * A* C speeches of hillary, reid, obama, pelosi and edwards.
Bob Schacht @ 192
Maybe W made Pelosi taste his food before he ate it!
Bob Schacht @ 175
Of course, Clinton was the last Pres. to balance the budget. It is beyond bizarre that Tweety was acting as if it were crazy to say that Dems are better at balancing the budget.
My snark emoticon was missing, I guess.
ran
No I never have- it has never occured to me that there is anything to be gained by it.
As an ex boss used to say “Never try to teach a pig to sing–it only frustrates you and annoys the pig”…
Still- maybe some day I’ll give it a try- Loo Hoo went to visit her fascist and apparently it wasn’t so bad.
This time last week I worried about lost Dem momentum over a month of recess. Little did I know they would stay just long enough to throw it all away.
dakine01 @ 186
I’ve seen Mr. Crawford’s version many times. And It’s a classic. And Penn’s acting in King’s Men, is in our opinion superlative. ;0)
The MCA was not just strategic ineptitude. It was a considered tactical decision: “We’re not going to leave any daylight between them and us on this one.” Remember?
The FISA fix was blithering stupidity. They turned over to Carl Rove the greatest asset for opposition research the world has ever known. J. Egar Hoover would have given his left nut for this capability. And all these idiots did was to say to Bush, “Well if you really think the Decider needs it …”
This much is true: I can set up a PC-based gateway to make a foreign-to-foreign VoIP call look like two foreign-to-U.S. VoIP calls. To catch such calls requires monitoring all Internet traffic that crosses the U.S. border, say, but putting splitters on all cross-border fibers. What congress gave Bush instead is the ability to legally monitor all traffic that emanations of will reasonably think might cross the U.S. border. “Reasonable” to whom?
Salon: Let me ask you about another vote — your vote that puzzled me the most. That was [in June] when you were the only Democrat to oppose a no-confidence against Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. This was a vote that had nothing to do with the war in Iraq. And you are both a former Connecticut attorney general and someone who remembers the politicization of the Justice Department under John Mitchell during Watergate.
Lieberman: Let me reconstruct that. It was earlier in the year. I think I thought that it was essentially a political vote. And the question on Gonzales was ultimately — he serves at the pleasure of the president. And that there was nothing but political intent to the resolution. Forgive me, I should go back and look that up.
http://www.salon.com/news/feat…..index.html
eCAHNomics @ 189
Uh, Carter preceded Reagan/Bush. He followed Nixon/Ford and dealt with the aftermath of Ford’s inflationary spending. Remember Ford’s WIN slogan?
Gave up smoking a year and a half ago- but at the moment- I’d sure love to have one- must be political discussions that do it.
rwcole @ 195
My gf sails at the Coronado YC, and one day I went to pick her up and there he was. I didn’t get a chance to ask him any questions, but I’ll be prepared to call him out next time.
Loo Hoo. @ 184
And we will support the nominee of our party.
Eureka Springs @ 198
Yes, given the momentum Congress built up at the end, at the expense of our civil liberties and great republic, perhaps it’s best they are on vacation for a while. Let Harry Reid watch from afar at teh Preznit he trusts with wiretap powers makes him look the fool with one recess appointment after another.
cancer_cures @ 169
I don’t know a lot about this, but probably someone else out there does: would we be better off with a coalition parliamentary system, like they have in Britain and Israel?
Elliott @ 184
I keep hoping there’s some strategy involved, too. But my contempt for Pelosi is growing. I must be forgetting something, but I’m scratching my head trying to think of anything in the past 6 months where Pelosi has been part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. Help, please?
Bob in HI
We haven’t seen or heard Mr. Gore referred to as a “hero” before.
I sent this letter to Reid, Pelosi, and my congressman and senators (with slight variations):
I think, after this FISA vote, that I’m pretty much done with the Democrats for now. What a bunch of ninnies. Oh, we might look soft on terrorism. Please. How about we might lead the country back to, well, some basic respect for the Constitution. Yes, Senator, I know it wasn’t you. You’ve been valiant in your attempts at oversight, but frankly Karl Rove is running circles around you. A little inherent contempt might speed up the process, fix this amnesia epidemic going round. In the last two election cycles, I gave a couple of grand to Democratic candidates. I’d say that makes me a pretty big donor. Now, my checkbook is closed, and I’m not sure any Democrat — you included — has my vote.
————
I feel completely undone by the process. Powerless, frustrated. I have a life to lead, and I’d like to not lead it in a constant state of fury about what my government is doing. I watched Sicko this weekend. Every person from Canada, England and France that Moore interviewed seemed a whole lot calmer and happier than the Americans. The Americans looked pinched and wan, as if they were being pressed, relentlessly, from every angle. Every day it seems to be the case.
Bob Schacht @ 208
*sigh*
rwcole @ 197
It felt good to go, but it did absolutely no good. And after two e-mail reminders, I’ve never heard Issa’s positions on Habeas Corpus, permanent bases in Iraq, Blackwater, or the trade deficit with China. Thought I might hear something, but I guess his votes say it all. I was nice when I was on a phone survey with Issa himself, and got a chance to blast Blackwater…
Offer stands rwcole, you want to visit Bilbray, I’ll go with you.
Elliott, You are no fool.
Good Grief! Clinton balanced the budget through sleight of hand, but his administration can sorta claim that they did it. Before that, the last administration to balance a budget, and these guys more or less really did it, was the last full fiscal year of LBJ’s presidency. JFK never balanced a budget, IIRC.
Bluetoe @ 168
I would go so far as to say remakes are most often worthless pieces of sh*t. But there are exceptions. E.g., Cape Fear with DeNiro.
Loo Hoo. @ 210
I called Bilbray’s office after the Libby commutation, and all they wanted to talk about was how mad they were that the border patrol agent wasn’t pardoned too.
GSD @ 23
This is some good snark. Cramer: “We have Armageddon.” and “This is not the time to be complacent.” Cramer blames the “Fed’, the Federal Reserve. This private bank was invented secretly, in 1913. The super rich people did not want the Federal government to issue currency. At least I read that on one of the internets.
LooHoo- Maybe we could threaten to photograph him with a room full of illegal aliens-
dakine01 @ 199
My bad. Brain fart.
Just looking at the charts. Carter followed Ford, of course, who was prez druing the bulk of the problems caused by OPEC I and the dismantling of price controls. So big recession, big deficit. Deficit shrank during first part of Carter, but did not disappear, then grew worse when OPEC II hit.
Turns out there was also a tiny surplus early in Nixon, owing to influnence of booming 1960s economy & Johnson’’s 10% income tax surcharge.
Small surplus right before JFK took office & occassional surpluses during Truman & Eisenhower, when the economy grew well on average but was quite volatile.
I apoligize for my big mistake.
Eureka Springs @ 213
I’m sure feeling like one right now.
Hi ET.
You’re coming into this conversation a little late.
It started at #108, when I quoted Chris Matthews as basically saying that anyone who thought that Dems were better than Reps at balancing budgets were, so to speak, unbalanced. I was a little too snarky, which started a debate about who balanced the budget last.
As to slight of hand, puhleeeeeeze. The Iraq war is off budget.
My congressperson is TOTALLY consumed by illegal aliens— must have had a Mexican guy steal his girlfriend- or boyfriend- or favorite pet.
Frank33 @ 216
Watch Aaron Russo’s America: Freedom to Facism on youtube. He lays it out pretty well.
Bob Schacht @ 166
And here are the unfortunate results. As a person with motives based on what’s best for our country’s future (I have children to think of) and what’s best for our relationship with the rest of our world – I’ve decided to hunker down.
I’m sad, but as I said before, I have children to think of and I don’t trust anything right now.
I saw Pan’s Labyrinth this weekend – all I could think about was ‘is this our future’?
fyi, Glenn Greenwald on Democracy Now.
eCAHNomics @ 219
Thought it had to be something like that, kinda like getting your tongue wrapped around your eyeteeth so that ya can’t see to talk straight. ;})
No sleight of hand; standard combination of raising taxes (on higher income people) and good economy. Whatever you think about Clinton, his fiscal policy was pretty spot on.
rwcole @ 203
Hang in there!
Ian—-
.
It’s a very stressful thing to be looking at a doctor who says, “Oh, you don’t have insurance or Medicaid? Then you don’t need an MRI after all.”
I remember taking care of little old ladies in the mid 70s who refused their meal trays, saying, “I can’t pay for it.” I’d explain that it was paid for under Medicare. They weren’t familiar with that or were too ill to remember.
And if that didn’t do the trick I’d say it was the doctor’s order that they eat! Made me cry.
raven
I won’t have one- but I notice when the craving comes.
randiego @ 225
If it turns out that well I’ll be happy!
An Mr. Bush comes along and says we can fight as many wars as I like, without any increase in taxes. Hey, just print the money.
HOA meeting tonight- I’ve gotta go look at a proposed volleyball court they’ve chalked out..later.
Bob Schacht @ 208
Please. People, lets stick with the reality of the situation. Occam’s Razor is almost always the way to go and Occam says…there is no strategy here. Pelosi and Reid have no strategy, the Dems overall have no strategy, and the Dems have no leadership. Reid and Pelosi are part of the problem and can never EVER be part of the solution. They BOTH had private meetings with Bush and right after that: POOF! Bush’s FISA bill (the Enabling Act of 2007) was dropped onto the floor for a very quick (Patriot Act-esque) vote. No muss, no fuss. It was a done deal.
Pelosi and Reid are not in any way, shape, or form, part of any acceptable solution. They must go. Period. They must be fought at every opportunity. Period. They are the enemy just as surely as is Boehner or Bush or Gonzales.
rwcole @ 231
Good on ya mate. I gave up the grog 13 years ago and these mofo repubs make me want to quaff one once and a while!
The investment class is feeding on it’s own. All this time these people have been touting the ecconomy saying “it’s not bad out there” when the income disparagy is worse than it has been since the 1920s and now look at this whinner squeal when he starts feeling the cold of the knife that EVERY OTHER AMERICAN has been feeling for years.
Gives you some insight into his intestinal fortitude, doesn’t it?
Welcome to the game player. Just figured out you’re only JV?
Maybe they are thinking of us — “the blogosphere” or whatever they prefer to call us — as just another lobbying group. We hold out the possibility of raising money for them. They show up, read a speech written to sound as if they support our issues. We ask a few questions; they smile politely and try to say the right things to make us happy.
Then they go on to lay their charms on the next audience, who of course are asking for something entirely different.
By the time they get back to Washington, they’ve forgotten most of what they were reading from the speeches. They can barely remember where they’ve been.
Then it’s once again time for them to walk around acting important, to receive adoration from their young and attractive staffers, and finally to go have a few good drinks and laughs with their old, old, old incumbent friends from both parties, who of course have all been doing the exact same song and dance, in front of different bunches of petitioners.
Methinks this is all they know how to do.
rwcole puts more into preparing for meetings than Harry Reid does.
Dang, this place is still hopping. I just ran into the MSNBC guy (young, blonde) and said Hi. He said he was glad to know people are watching. I told him ESPECIALLY KEITH. He invited me to the debate tomorrow night. It’s here in Chicago?
Loo Hoo. @ 239
you’re on fire, Loo Hoo!
Mitch,
Coming late, leaving early. Been writing music about a fish story since 0630, with a couple of breaks here. Looks like Ben Stevens is back to sea, creating another of his fishy stories.
I’m only pointing out that neither JFK nor Carter balanced a budget. Let’s give LBJ credit where it is due. As for Bush…..
I hate every fucking goddam minute of this financially “off-the-books” war!!!
randiego @ 225
I hope so. It is better than quietly sliding into fascism. At least there will be people doing something rather than wringing their hands and sputtering.
Been following the Salon letters?
New link upstairs.
Fresh Threadiness (as TSF says)
More from Salon.com’s letters section:
——————–
via the Huffington Post, this story on Yahoo, by Reuters’ Richard Cowan:
And, again, the Democrats who voted with Bush on FISA were not the ones supported by the Netroots via Howie Klein’s Blue America. That really does mean something. Some of those candidates did stand up for something, in spite of getting flack for being soft on Terrorism.
raven @ 229
More likely it’s knowing we’ve been screwed.
Loo Hoo. @ 165
Of course she doesn’t find him revolting. She recognizes him as the alpha male in her socio-economic group. They belong to the same CLASS despite their party affiliation.
I haven’t been a fan of Harry Reid since he didn’t help Carter in Nevada. I like him less every day. All this ‘Give ‘em hell Harry’ is bunk. He is not a courageous leader. Nor does he seem to have any ‘vision’. Mediocre at best.
If people are honest with themselves they have to admit that whenever Reid speaks it sounds like nothing more than a whine. Not exactly what you want to instill confidence and change peoples minds. The euphoria of the 2006 elections has all but evaporated into thin air. Dems are stuck with these sorry losers until at least 2008. By then it will likely be a moot point.
” Why for the love of Mary did the Democrats not craft a bill legislating “a” and when Bush refused to sign it because it did not include “b” did they not scream from the high holy heavens that he was not giving the intelligence community the tools it needed to do its job?”
Clearly because the August recess loomed, and there wasn’t time.
• You neglect to note that this bill sunsets in six months.
• You fail to note that the Speaker has already asked for a repeal bill from Conyers early in September.
• You fail to sufficiently note that this changes nothing of the ILLEGAL behavior that is already going on, or that the FISA Court happily approves about 99% of all warrant requests anyhow, or that the SUPREME COURT defines what is legal, not the legislature.
You would think you would catch some of those points, and avoid the Dem-bashing amazement and wonder at how this could happen. It was another slick move by the R, and it succeeded, but to grasp the nettle and be ripsawed by the August recess and the Blue Dog margin was not in our interest. It is only in the interest of R and disaffiliated leftists, who ONCE AGAIN join together in their bashing of our good, honest Dem leadership and caucus.
29 Blue Dogs 12 others in the House. No one in the leadership voted yea. Five/sixths of our caucus voted nay. Yep, time to bash the Dems!
Phoenix Woman @ 247
Except, I think, for Senator Jim Webb.
But is Webb still a huge improvement over Macaca Allen? Quite clearly so.
THIS LAW SUNSETS IN SIX MONTHS. Without noting that, and without observing what this pushes off the front pages (Bowen’s decert of votefraud equipment, etc.), it amazes me how many persons of good character can’t grasp the POLITICS because they are so easily spun around by the THREAT.
Oh my — they’re going to spy on me –like they’ve been doing since 2001, law or no law. YOU OUGHT TO BE MOCKING THEM for their machinations, not playing into the threatdown and the Dem-bashing.
Paul in LA @ 252
It sunsets in six months at which Bush will ask for even more and the D’s will cave so that they aren’t perceived as weak on terra in an election year.
Even if allowed to sunset, they still get to keep going for a year beyond the six months for anything “in process”
The Speaker has asked for some modifications, not a repeal and it looks like lip service since she allowed it to come forward in the first place.
And the D’s being trashed are the ones who actually believe that they can trust ANYTHING coming from this admin.
I especially have to question the brains of the ones who have co-sponsored the Impeach Gonzales bill yet voted in favor of this piece of excrement.
Praedor Atrebates @ 235
HILARIOUS. See if you can get anyone to bite on that.
Any excuse to bash the Dems will do. Nevermind the FACTS.
dakine01 @ 254
Clearly, factually, untrue.
Speaker Pelosi has already asked Chairman Conyers to sponsor a repeal in early September. The investigations of the illegal spying misconduct continues. The investigation of the complicit DoJ continues. The issue of getting special prosecutors continues. Etc.
You’re just spinning your disaffiliation. And here’s one more clue: THEY HAVE BEEN STEALING THE ELECTIONS. Well, that is OVER. So we are going to win by landslides in 2008, pretty much no matter what the Dem leadership does — but so far, they have done a great deal to roll back Bushco nonsense, and this six month setback is TRIVIAL in comparison to the real crimes being documented by the House and Senate Judiciary committees, and Waxman’s committee, and others.
We’re making solid progress, but please feel free to continue to live in 2003, if that makes you happy.
dakine01 @ 254
It was either allow the bill to come forward, or be bashed and ripsawed by the August recess and the bastard in the Shitehouse and his cronies in Congress. The action of allowing a six month sunsetted bill to go forward is sound.
And WHO are you talking about? None of the 29 Blue Dogs support the Gonzales impeachment TMK. And the other 12? I seriously doubt if any of them did either.
randiego @ 216
Is that surprising? Considering HE WASN’T LEGALLY ELECTED, it is not surprising. He is a shill.
The Greenwald interview with Dodd was the most surprising and illuminating thing I’ve read on American politics ever. It would have surprised me less to read that Harry Reid was taking checks from the Republicans than to see this utter fumbling exposed. The Democrats are dominated by people who have no concept of how to run a modern organization or that it is even important to do so. Twenty years after Bob Dole double crossed and humiliated Pat Moynihan, the Senate Democrats remain in a daze, totally reactive, passive, constantly losing to people who are looking two steps ahead and utterly unable to understand what it happening to them. They are the Dumbocrats. I’m embarassed to be on their side.
Paul in LA @ 257
And WHO are you talking about? None of the 29 Blue Dogs support the Gonzales impeachment TMK. And the other 12? I seriously doubt if any of them did either.
I checked.
NONE of the sponsors of the Kucinich bill voted yea on the FISA bill.
rootless2 @ 259
That’s good spin. So much Dem-bashing, so little time, eh?
Greenwald embarassed himself on Dem Now!, and NO ONE mentioned the six month sunset on that program (TMK). So how surprising is it that a fillibuster didn’t get off the ground? Wow, is that embarassing. Clinton got a blowjob? Oh my, I’ll never be able to hold my protest signs, I’ll be shaking with so much SHAME!
Time for NEW leadership!
LONG past time…
As awful as this piece-of-crap FISA legislation is, might it be part of a deal?
I was stunned to hear that the Senate version of the SCHIP (State Children’s Health Insurance Program) reauthorization passed 68-13 — a veto-proof majority. NO one was expecting that. If the House adopts the Senate version (much more palatable to the GOP than the House version), it will pick up lots more Republican votes.
Did both parties’ leaders work out a deal to reauthorize FISA for 6 months so the House will come back and pass SCHIP with a veto-proof majority?
Or am I giving all of these politicians too much credit?
There is one other issue in this, namely that the Speaker-backed (sponsors: Reyes, Conyers, Flake (R), Schiff) House bill which would have been better, was voted down by some of our heroes:
Improving Foreign Intelligence Surveillance to Defend the Nation and the Constitution Act of 2007 –Failed 218-207 (by 10 votes)
Dems voting Nay: Blumenauer, Capuano, Filner, Holt, Inslee, Kucinich, McDermott, McGovern, Michaud, Olver, Stark, Waters, Welch (VT), Woolsey
By voting nay, or not voting, these representatives helped produce a poorer result.
Not voting: Clark, Waxman
Molly Weasley @ 263,
I think you may have something there.
Thank you very very much for that insight.
It’s a huge relief for my area that this passed. Otherwise there would be a lot of kids w/o meds or doctors.
Paul in LA @ 261
Patriot act, as mentioned already, had a sunset. And as Senator Fiengold pointed out, a 6 month (with 1 year continuation of all authorized calls which they have no way of enforcing since there is no reporting requirement) abolition of the 4rth amendment is no less an abolition.
Finally, if anyone is naive enough to believe that Gonzo and Bush are above collecting “actionable” information on important politicians, business people, and judges via this program and using it to claw back into the permanent majority, they are beyond naive.
Too many deals and not enough Senators who know the law. How about we require a test on the constitution to hold office? I am pissed.
we all worked hard to help the Democrats win back he majority last fall. They need to develop a bit more dexterity at using it.
Not just dexterity, they need to play the equivalent of smashmouth, power football. Don’t wimp out after a failed cloture vote – keep pounding at them. Keep that damned bill on the floor. And do the same thing the next time a cloture vote fails. And the time after that.
Don’t take impeachment off the table – have a subcommittee staff quietly make the best case for impeachment of Bush, Cheney, Rove, and Gonzales, with the evidence currently available, then decide which investigations are worth pushing on, hard.
And now that they’ve had Miers, Bolten, and Rove all thumb their noses at subpoenas, hold them in contempt of Congress, and do it quickly, so that when the US Attorney for D.C. tells them he’s not gonna do anything with it, they can move on to inherent contempt.
I keep waiting for the moment when we hit these bastards hard, and it never happens. Well, dammit, it’s time for it to happen. Hell, it was time four years ago, but we didn’t control Congress then. We do now.
So I want smashmouth football from the Dems. I want Lombardi football. I want Steel Curtain football. I want Joe Gibbs’ Hogs, the Ravens’ defense. I want them to be animated with the spirit of the great linebackers – Butkus, Nitschke, Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Ray Lewis.
But like somebody – Jeralyn, maybe? – said, these guys don’t bring a knife to a gunfight, they bring a carrot.
For 165,000 dollars, you don’t expect them to read the bills, do you?!
That’s executive summary territory!
Come on!
George @ 269
It is well-known that the Senators do not have the time or the staff to read the bills. That problem goes back at least 50 years, and is well-covered in Caro’s “Master of the Senate,” the first 100 pages of which represent a good summary of the history of our most august democratic body.
The concept of Democratic spinelessness has become the conventional wisdom now. Chris Floyd’s article makes much more sense: http://www.chris-floyd.com/Art…..Democrats/
First it was the war authorization, then the suspension of habeas corpus. Now it’s OK to monitor however, whenever, whomever. I’m done with the Dems. What they are doing is giving us an American version of the German Enabling Act in drips and drabs. A pox on the entire Congress.