A little Jay-Z to get you through the day…or, if you prefer, the Dr. Evil and Mini-Me parody version.
Dear Elected Members of Congress: Welcome to the “You Work For Us Summer Tour.” Coming to a public venue near you. And that is a stone cold promise.
This is your LiLo Don’t Drink And Drive Night at the minor leagues accountability moment, members of Congress. What group am I with when I call to make an appointment for me and a few hundred of my closest friends? I’m with “people who vote.” We are pissed off and disgusted. And you work for us, so we’ll be discussing your performance evaluation every opportunity that we get. We’ll be calling for an appointment shortly, so make a little space on your calendars.
You thought you were getting the month of August off to head out to friendly little senior centers and county fairs where you get to do your political shuck and gladhand and eat some homemade pie? Not so fast, slick.
Now that Congress has handed over the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the standard of probable cause as if they were mere wisps of nothingness that weren’t hard won from Runnymede through to the American Revolution and beyond, I have to wonder what has become of the fourth amendment in all of this mess? And, worse, whether Congressional leadership on either side of the aisle cares beyond getting the legislation out of the way so they can head out for vacation?
Marty Lederman has put together an exceptional series of expository links on the FISA legislation — bless him for it, because it is all I can do to get past furious this morning. The question I keep asking staffers and strategists: what in the hell were you thinking? And the “this is a difficult situation” response that I keep getting? Not. Good. Enough.
You want difficult? Try this on for size:
…During and after the Brown decision, Hill remained an instrumental force in developing legal strategies during Virginia’s “massive resistance” to desegregation, in which many public schools closed rather than admit blacks.
He filed countless suits in the state to compel change in such areas as voting rights, jury selection, access to school buses and employment protection.
Hill’s activism came at a price. A cross was burned on his lawn in 1955, and his family received so many threats that his wife installed floodlights.
At the time, Hill said officials in Richmond “had the ambulance, the fire department and the undertaker all sent to my house in about 15 minutes of each other” to intimidate him.
He told the publication Human Rights in 1994: “I can’t understand why Americans are willing to send their children — black and white — to foreign lands to fight, and sometimes die, to preserve the American concepts of freedom, democracy and civil rights, when at the same time these same Americans are unwilling to undergo an occasional inconvenience or suffer a slight financial loss to help break down racial barriers and racial discrimination in this country.”…
Oliver Hill was one of the greats. The man lived and breathed justice and equality for all under the law. I can only hope at the end of my days to have a tenth of the character and strength this man had on his worst days. He and his family were in constant threat of danger for his work — they burned a cross on his lawn, and he said “the hell you are” and kept right on going. He kept on fighting because it was the right thing to do. Because his conscience and his heart demanded that he stand up for others, day in and day out, and that he keep on fighting because there were battles that had to be waged for the benefit of the whole nation.
Oliver Hill stands as an example for all of us of what one person, one voice, in the cause of justice can do to move the whole nation. Now THAT is patriotism.
The whole “The President put a lot of pressure on us. They were going to call us soft of terrorism.” bullshit excuses? It’s just so much crap. True patriots stand up. And if you think for a moment that we are just going to forget on this one, you have another thing coming.
Jane is absolutely correct in saying that the Republican Presidential candidates are heading hard right toward the fringes of their base, tying themselves to a President that the vast majority of Americans think is a failure. So why in the hell would the Democrats in Congress do the same? I say we find out.
Call the local offices of your elected representatives today. Find out where and when they will be attending events in your area. Or schedule a meeting with your representatives or a member of their staff – they do, after all, work for you. Or do both. Write letters to the editor in advance of these public meetings, so folks in your town have some things to talk about with your elected officials at the local watering hole. Send letters, postcards, drop by the offices in person. Whatever it takes.
This is a full court press, folks. Your nation is depending on us getting up off our butts and doing the work. Being a citizen is not something that we are — it is something that we do. I’m with Howie: we’ll keep on searching for more and better Democrats but, in the meantime, let’s give the ones we have a piece of our minds and remind them that they work for us, and not the other way around. Now, let’s get to work…
PS — I’ll let the WV readers know when I get something set up with Sens. Rockefeller and Byrd and with Rep. Mollohan (who is my district rep.) I’m going to start working on that today.
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Christy!
Welcome back!
Redd!
(At least mine voted no Saturday. He’s been on the ‘not-mine’ side of some others, but ususally he’s a good guy.)
I’ll say again that smart Repugs know they’re f*cked with respect to presidential ‘08.
well I wrote all the critters yesterday, a few friends did also. Its all I can do at the present.
Maybe we need another Party say one for the True Americans that support the Constitution!
EPU’d from last thread but relevant here:
Biodun @ 129
Biodun @ 5
It seems to me Democrats are doing nothing but pandering to the WH, while occasionally throwing us a bone(minus any meat I might add)
I have not seen a single canidate who I am willing to support. That stinks!
OT&EPUd: So now the NSA can tap, scan, record, and archive every phone call that AGAG, an emination of Bush’s will, “reasonably believes” might be to or from an offshore phone. And, of course, AGAG being a prudent and loyal emination believes that every call might be to/from a foreign phone. “We really don’t have the technology to infallibly discriminate. And the safety of the American People is at stake.”
Where the incumbent is a blue dog, the next election is a choice between two evils. It’s better to elect a repubican and work really hard on the next primary.
EPU’d from last thread but also relevant here:
Biodun @ 137
CHS thanks for the link. I didn’t google it because someone yesterday reported they were having trouble finding it thru google. What a difference a day makes.
I see two ways that this excremental legislation can be changed:
1) Court challenge on constitutional grounds. Let’s encourage and support the ACLU in getting this piece of dung declared unconstitutional.
2) Challenge the dem candidates to promise to reverse the thing through executive order and demand a congressional reversal upon being elected.
Can’t see anything else that will work.
The ACLU (thank God for em) will probably procede without our encouragement- so talking to the dem candidates is probably the best we can do. Jane and Redd probably have the power to get an anwer from each and every candidate- and we can call and write to make sure that they answer correctly.
I’m waiting a bit cause I’m too angry right now. Mine are Corker, Alexander and a weasel named David Davis.
They are all joined at the hip with Bush and have the local papers cheering them on…all in Gods name…arghh!
Keeping the pressure on my party. Music. Sweet music. Senator Clinton, what are you thinking this morning?
Christy,
This is a great idea. I think we need a thread every day of the recess, so folks can report back on the results of their visits.
Having said that, I live in Peter King’s District, a man who “thanks god every day that George Bush is his president”.
I know why he voted for this piece of shite.
So, I will confine my efforts as I did last cycle to helping the Dem who is going to run against him.
Last year Howie slected Dave Mejias, who ran a aginst King, as a Blue America candidate. Dave got a VERY late start and spent WAY too much time trying to hit Rahm’s fundraising benchmarks, but I’m hoping next time, with an earlier start we can get the job done.
I am happy to report that all the rest of the Senatos and Congressional Reps from surrounding districts voted the right way. I will send attaboys to them
Unfortunately, I’m located in Dan Burton’s district. However, I couldn’t help but be severly disappointed to see Evan Bayh cave into this administration’s fear-mongering and lies. I may have to give his office a call and ask some questions.
Welcome Home Christy.
Well,my rep’s office won’t talk to me(Republican Tom Price,ooh surprise,Mr Truth Squad,ick.),but hey,I’ve been hung up on by both GOP Senators and my GOP Rep’s office so I hit the trifecta!Yay me,lol. (actually I only laugh so I don’t weep)There’s nothing on the web(as of early this AM)that tells me where the schmucks are going to be during recess either. I told the husband this morning we need to move out of GA,I’ve had enough.
The Democrats in Congress are their own worst enemy.
If you’d like to know if your House rep is one of the “yes” votes go here (links to their home pages are included):
http://pruningshears.squarespa…..votes.html
Thunderbird at 14 — You also have two Senators, don’t forget…
anangryoldbroad @ 15
Sounds worse than East TN
Oh, and for folks who are Webb constituents, he needs to hear from you until his eardrums split.
I find his betrayals paticularly insulting. After running around with those army boots hung around his neck.
rwcole @ 10
I can just see the Roberts/Alito/Scalia/Thomas/Kennedy court supporting the Constitution against the Bushies, can’t you? We have to give our reps a spine transplant stat. I think Christy’s plan is excellent.
My own critter, Keith Ellison, and Senators, Amy Klobuchar and that weasel Norm Coleman, are all tied up right now with the I-35W bridge collapse situation. But I’ll do my best to get hold of them.
“Call the local offices of your elected representatives today. Find out where and when they will be attending events in your area. Or schedule a meeting with your representatives or a member of their staff – they do, after all, work for you. Or do both. Write letters to the editor in advance of these public meetings, so folks in your town have some things to talk about with your elected officials at the local watering hole. Send letters, postcards, drop by the offices in person. Whatever it takes.“
This call has gone out over and over over the past few months.
And we’ve responded.
And over and over again, it seems to make absolutely no difference.
Not a sign of backbone, not a sign of caring what the American public thinks. No sign of change. All of our work, effort, and caring was literally for naught.
At what point do you stop doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result?
InfoNut
(Suddenly… crushingly… dispirited)
wigwam @ 7
I respectfully disagree. Voting for Republicans and Democrats at this point seems anathema to me. I have read the blogs and people on these sites seem to have more sense that those sitting in congress….maybe Christy will run, better than anythig I see in congress and not beholden to big corps and the WH to boot!
Great post Christy. I need some kind of inspiration to lift me out of my despair today.
The D Party in my county is practically dead, maybe I should find some like-minded individuals to start up an alternative D-Party something along the lines of Minnesota. We’re too rural, and the MSM memes are too strong here for simply doing something like affiliating with the Green Party. But maybe promoting some kind of a “vertebrate” party might work.
Repugs may launch tons of attacks at Dems on a lot of issues, but why can’t they understand the thing that loses them votes more than any other thing is their complete lack of courage?
My suspicion is that Democratic staff on the Hill is totally out of its league.
Infonut at 23 — See here. The civil rights movement took more than thirteen years and counting to get progress and legislation for voting rights and other issues. Progress happens in small bits, not quick hits.
And I, for one, am in this for the long haul…because we have to be. I’ll be damned if I am giving this nation up to the neonuts.
Nancy Pelosi now wants to “amend FISA as soon as possible.”
What is going on here?!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 18
Ah, yes, Mr. Lugar may hear quite a bit about this from me as well…
I’ve seen references that indicate there are some fellow Hoosiers in here. Who all is from Indiana?
Maybe we can coordinate our efforts, especially with our senators, since we seem to have different Reps.
Well, as a denizen of Pete Hoekstra’s district I am pretty sure my objection will carry lots and lots of weight. (sigh)
But I still wonder the question that really should be asked of Reid and Pelosi: WHY WAS THIS BILL ALLOWED ON THE DOCKET? It should never had been considered under these circumstances. (or any other for that matter but . . . )
anangryoldbroad @ 15
I had the same experience w/ Chambliss and Isaakson. Didn’t even bother with Tom Price. He’s a lost cause.
Oscar Wilde observed that a cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Even though I know Wilde was right, I am slowly sliding towards cynicism.
It is hard to keep up the good fight when your troops in the field, our elected represenatives, are such pussilaminous mountebanks.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 27
And women’s suffrage took 40-50 years.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 27
Egregious I think it was who said several weeks ago that this is a marathon and NOT a sprint. I couldn’t agree more.
Richmond at 35 — Yes, and as we all know, women shouldn’t bother their pretty little heads about politics.
O.o
We, in this house will vote Democratic in 2008. And if we are disappointed after the election, we will support a third party. And we will leave the Democratic party after forty years of loyalty. Democrats. You need to focus on the big picture.
SufiLizard @ 30
Hoosier by birth, but Boilermaker by the grace of God here :-)
Ronit @ 28
This was an act of political cover pure and simple. She could have prevented the vote from occurring, instead she knocked herself out to get it passed before recess. She voted against the bill and then she wrote that adorable little letter to Conyers for show. She’s hoping you won’t notice the inherent dishonesty in all of this so that she will get reelected.
Thunderbird @ 29
Lugar actually did better than Bayh did – Lugar didn’t vote at all.
I’ve got Boxer, DiFi, and Bilbray (PUKE)
The only one worth contacting is DiFi—I’ve done it countless times without any effect- but I’ll do it again. Bilbray’s a total waste of time- and Boxer is on board I suppose.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 37
*g*
I called DIFI office in DC. The youngster who answered sounded bored with it.
More calls. More outrage.
I also sent this email:
What part of the following — the fourth amendment to the Constitution — dont you understand?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I am OUTRAGED at your vote on the FISA act. This is caving to fearmongering and failure to protect the US Constitution.
What part of needing a warrant from a judge is too complicated for the Bush administration.
Why would anyone trust Abu Gonzalez and the rest of this administration. Fix this, or lose my vote and all my family members.
Ronit @ 28
Heckuva job Nancy.
-GSD
S. 1927:
`Sec. 105B. (a) Notwithstanding any other law, the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General, may for periods of up to one year authorize the acquisition of foreign intelligence information concerning persons reasonably believed to be outside the United States if the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General determine, based on the information provided to them, that–
`(4) a significant purpose of the acquisition is to obtain foreign intelligence information;
`(b) A certification under subsection (a) is not required to identify the specific facilities, places, premises, or property at which the acquisition of foreign intelligence information will be directed.
`(e) With respect to an authorization of an acquisition under section 105B, the Director of National Intelligence and Attorney General may direct a person to–
`(1) immediately provide the Government with all information, facilities, and assistance necessary to accomplish the acquisition in such a manner as will protect the secrecy of the acquisition and produce a minimum of interference with the services that such person is providing to the target…
`(f) The Government shall compensate, at the prevailing rate, a person for providing information, facilities, or assistance pursuant to subsection (e).
`(g) In the case of a failure to comply with a directive issued pursuant to subsection (e), the Attorney General may invoke the aid of the court established under section 103(a) to compel compliance with the directive. The court shall issue an order requiring the person to comply with the directive if it finds that the directive was issued in accordance with subsection (e) and is otherwise lawful. Failure to obey an order of the court may be punished by the court as contempt of court.
`(l) Notwithstanding any other law, no cause of action shall lie in any court against any person for providing any information, facilities, or assistance in accordance with a directive under this section.
_____
So, they’re gonna pay the telecoms and indemnify them. But, don’t worry, they’re only gonna go after things where a “significant purpose” is gumshoeing Terrists. And Gonzo will acknowledge to purview of the courts where it suits his purpose (i.w., coercing compliance).
And Abu “I-Don’t-Recall” Gonzo will oversee everything. I feel so much safer already.
A quick ‘hit and run’ update about the House FISA action on Saturday, based on the Congressional Record that’s now available on-line (the Senate’s Friday action still isn’t posted; I haven’t read the comments on the recent threads to see if anyone else has pointed this out yet, so please excuse any double-posting):
It seems to be even worse than I imagined… It appears that it didn’t take more action from the Rules Committee to effect a simple majority vote on the Senate FISA bill (S. 1927) on Saturday… It took a unanimous consent request on the floor of the House by Steny Hoyer, which didn’t receive a single objection. Not one Democrat (or Republican) said a word, to at least force the Rules Committee into some gymnastics to force this through:
Http://thomas.loc.gov/r110/r110.html
The political parties are obviously being run top-down with a vengeance, on both sides. The rank and file apparently defer to their “betters” on fear of … something … and with that deferment of individual judgement and independent conscience comes the dismantling of the Constitution whenever the “bosses” say so, as Pelosi did on Saturday. It’s unconscionable. Incumbents are already operating in a ‘totalitarian state’ of a sort within their political party – I guess they figure the rest of us can get along that way just fine too.
The “Blue Dogs” have become Nancy Pelosi’s favorite cover story excuse, no doubt.
Caveat: The House Committee on Rules hasn’t yet posted its Saturday action (it passed at least one resolution that day – H.Res. 615), so it’s possible there was further action beyond the unanimous consent request in play. I’ll keep checking for an update there, and for any other information about the behind the scenes machinations.
People speculating that Tamm might be Deepmodem:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/6/9614/26491
dan_ps @ 17
Thank God my rep voted no. I got the feeling that her staff at her local office were getting rather tired of me.
jayt @ 41
Thanks for the info, jayt. I hadn’t yet looked into the complete roll call vote.
Powwow @47 – Thanks for reposting that.
Here in NH we have Paul Hodes and Carol Shea Porter. Two who could show many the resolve and the strength needed to fight the GOP and the DLC Libercrats.
Now John Sununu and Judd Gregg are another story.
-GSD
P.S. Josh Marshall says the Republican Party is in pretty rough shape.
By the time they are done running hard right for the primary they are gonna far away from much of the nation.
He also says McCain seems like he’s a ruined man.
Ronit @ 28
It’s called kabuki.
One of my reps voted against “Brad Miller” but my other one who brought shame on my state “Bob Etheridge” voted yes.Thanks Brad, Bob you already heard from me!
Biodun @ 36
You are, of course, correct.
Just a little “bullshit fatigue”, I guess.
I live in PA, worked by butt off to get rid of Weldon and now I have Casey, who we knew was going to be a problem for abortion rights, but to cave on this. I want to scream. I sent an email saying he was a disgrace and I worked and voted for him to save me from Bush, not the terrorists and that I would be visiting. I got a nice “Thanks for writing” reply. My letter will be read and passed on to the senator.
Oh and then I also have Spector. I might have to move.
Anyone want to visit either one, I am going.
Jim Ramstad (R, MN 3rd CD) has announced four Town Meetings for this week to be held Wednesday in Minnetonka (Noon) and Mound (7:00 pm), and Thursday in Bloomington (noon) and Coon Rapids (7:00 pm). All four are being held in the city’s Council Chambers. Any MN 03ers please plan to attend one of these if you can. FWIW, I plan to go to the one in Minnetonka.
Thunderbird (I’ll not compare the Big Dance appearances of your Boilermakers to my Bulldogs this past tourney)
What groups to you have contact with in the state? Can we coordinate some efforts to contact Lugar, Bayh and our respective Congressfolks?
We should take a page from the right and make sure we’re all hitting the same talking points about this issue. Betraying the Constitution is an obvious one, but for Dems, maybe we could find a succinct way to point out they’re shooting themselves in the foot (even in a Red state like IN).
JF @ 33
J,where are you? I’m trying to find other folks from this part of the state to befriend and work with.
I know a woman with a pretty little head. Eyes as black as coal and hair long, thick, dark and straight. She stands about 5 feet six and weighs about 105. And she is the sweetest thing in the world. Unless she feels betrayed. And I’ve viewed her in action when this is the case. This person is upset with the Democrats in Congress.
That’s how they want you. Reagan’s greatest legacy was disenfranchisement; don’t let it continue to be. This isn’t a world championship that you win and then you get to polish the trophy for the next two-four-six years. This is a process, not a goal with an end to it. Remember that it’s got to be incremental. You push until the system gives (even a little) on a few things at a time. You never stop pushing or being vigilant that you don’t lose the gains made on old topics. There are set-backs, always, expect them so they don’t become demoralizing. Treat them as lessons learned by figuring out exactly what went wrong and push again. Or, if the issue you have been pushing on feels overwhelming, there are plenty of others (clean water, rights for dogs, light pollution, your local fire department’s equipment, anything really that you think needs changing) but please, please, please don’t let them win by turning your back on the process.
Howie says:
my bold.
the same goes if the (D) party nominates a neo-conservative for the office of the Presidency, someone like Clinton or Obama, whose promises of more war to the Lobby-on-trial-for-espionage are way more likely to be kept than any of their insincere musings to the left.
so, beleive a politician for once- when they say that “all options are on the table” in the false crisis with Iran, that means they reserve the right to order the first nuclear first strike since Nagasaki.
Then, do what Howie suggests in Christy’s link, and
Progressives should let her go down to defeat
rwcole @ 42
I got DiFi’s washington number to answer, the staffer was polite. Her CA offices don’t open until 9 am.
I’m not going to bother calling my rep, I doubt Ken Calvert(R-Corrupt) gives a damn.
DWD @ 32
100 percent agreement. My first reaction was WTF were they thinking.
Thank you Pow Wow,
I still don’t understand exactly what happened, but I think I get the gist, thanks to your efforts.
We wuz robbed.
Also some odd news out of NH.
From Wolfboro NH on the shores of Lake Winnepesaukee.
Frances President Sarkozy played pirate this weekend and leaped from his boat onto a boat with of photographers and berated the lensmen in French for taking his pictures whilst he’s vacationing.
Said the photogs, it was all French to them, but they got the picture not to take any more pictures.
-GSD
P.S. The digs he’s staying at rent at 30K for the week.
SufiLizard @ 58
I’m pretty new to the activism scene, so I’m not too sure where to start. Any other Indiana folks out there with some experience in this arena?
Hugh @ 53
Pelosi is getting as good at Kabuki as Specter is.
LS @ 48
hmmm…
sporkovat says
August 6th, 2007 at 8:36 am
As I’ve said here before, I simply do not understand how any LA representative, of either party or in either house, can vote in favor of *anything* propounded by George Fucking Bush, the destroyer of New Orleans.
I want to make something really clear for everyone, because I’ve gotten several e-mails on this issue: this is NOT a liberal versus conservative issue. It is an AMERICAN issue. Libertarian conservatives are just as disgusted over this as liberals are in terms of the implications for civil liberties.
No elected representative gets off the hook — no Senator, no House member — they ALL take an oath to uphold and support the Constitution. They all have a responsibility to uphold checks and balances. They ALL deserve an earful on this. All of them. And conservative members are just as likely to be hammered on legal principles as liberal ones are, because the rule of law isn’t something that only one party ought to be following — it applies to all of us. Period.
Peter King is so vile I went down to help Dave Mejias even though I live in Westchester. Long Island has a real red neck contingent there and despite being close to NYC it can be pretty skeery out there.
I don’t know where these people get their view of the world, but I have nothing in common with them.
Do you try to educate or change their mentality.. or just wrestle control from them at the ballot box?
My wife thinks there are some clan thingies out east. And they resent those limo librals and the Hamptonians with their string bikinis to boot.
darclay @ 4
06 Aug 2007
08.20 Los Angeles
I have two matters of concern here:
1) regarding writing people like Feinstein: for months, years, I have come up empty trying to devise wording that might convey the depth of outrage while still having a chance of contributing positively to some turnabout, but all that comes out is bile and snark. Can anyone provide help in the composition department?
2) regarding another party: please, please, please, everyone, recognize that it is electoral laws that lie at the base of these problems. So long as the country at all levels and in all jurisdictions, almost without exception, operates with rules that say ‘the one candidate that gets the most votes wins’ (i.e. wins *everything*), third- (fourth- … etc.) party efforts are worse than tilting at windmills. We don’t even require that a winner get a true *majority* of votes. At least a simple run-off system universally in place would give us that. We have a voting system (and public notion of ‘democracy’) the equal of England’s, based on the crudest, most archaic and least representative principles.
==Mel Strom
What is missing here is also calling the Representative who voted the right way and thanking them.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 27
Also, look at how long and the amount of organizing it took the conservatives to get their awesome grip on power.
Folks we are going from bad to worse… we’ve lost a tremendous amount of ground in this country and the little we have to stand on is crumbling under our feet.
The democrats are not the answer. I can agree with Nadar on that. It’s an illusion.
Hope for the economy to crash and for something else to emerge… that’s not fascism.
rwcole @ 42
I’ve gotten the same exact thing. All I ever get is a stupid automated response and to add insult to injury they spam my inbox with her newsletter.
What museum is the relic Sherman anti-trust act in?
With The Wall Street Journal and a new business network, Rupert Murdoch and Fox News chief Roger Ailes plan their next move: all-out war.
In some very important areas the right-winger nuts are winning big.
sporkovat @ 62
Sure, lets get rid of Landrieu and the Nelsons and then we can have Specter as SJC chairman. Even the worst Dem is better than any Republican. Any person with a “D” after their name contributes to the cause. The goal is to increase the number of Progressives and to make the reactionary Dems irrelevant except for the “D” after their name.
I just fired of a blistering e-mail to DiFi- her staff will likely say “Oh- him again”..hope it helps.
marc at 75 — That is absolutely essential — and I thought it pretty much went without saying. But you are absolutely correct — carrot and stick. Setting up meetings with elected folks who voted correctly to say thank you and talk about other items on which we can do the work to push them forward is just as important as talking over points of disagreement. Thanks for the reminder on that. :)
Mel Strom @ 74
Ain’t goina happen! There are limits to how much our founders trusted the will of the people.
As I said earlier this morning and worth repeating:
Thanks Harry and Nancy!
You sold my constitutional rights for a few weeks of vacation. What a bargain!
Thanks so much!
Smart consumers read the fine print before signing when buying a house, taking out a loan, etc even though there seems to be in increase in gobbledygook thrown in. Our elected critters are our proxies & I expect them to know what they are signing off on, on our behalves. Ignorance doesn’t cut it with me whether it is ignorance of the facts or ignorance of our wishes.
If it is not ignorance but some other agenda they cannot or will not fully explain to those of us who voted for them, that is even more inexcusable.
The problem we have in this house with patience is the possibility, some would argue the probably, of a world war. World War III would tend to dwarf all else?
rwcole @ 42
Why DiFi? Boxer has a better voting record and didn’t vote for the FISA fix. OTOH, she didn’t vote against it and is pretty useless, just not evil like DiFi.
Christy
Wonder if you or Jane could call Reid and Pelosi and ask for a five minute interview to get their “views” on this subject- in which you ask them “For the record- what are you willing to do to correct this error?” Just a thought.
LS @ 48
I have to admit, that thought crossed my mind when I read about it last night. Tamm should have known he’d be traceable, though, if he was the one doing it (I think I’d have tried running through an anonymizer, but it might not work for comments).
Back in 2001 I was “surveilling” the outrageous Total Information Awareness initiative and its enabling legislation. I wrote:
Diff’rent day, same shit. S. 1927 has no explicit and detailed data access and security provisions that I can find. I guess we’re just supposed to trust Gonzo that the information collected will only be used for fighting “terrah,” and not wind up in ChoicePoint and RNC databases.
Right.
marc sobel @ 76
That would include Pelosi and Reid. Pardon me while I pass on that…
Thunderbird @ 67
Well, I can certainly point the way to both of the Senators’ downtown offices. Finifinito is active within BlueIndiana, and is helping coordinate Barry Welsh’s bid against Mike Pence.
*ilson46201, where are you?
Apparently Speaker Pelosi and Harry Reid have ignored the memo that landed on their desks:
Gonzales determined to attack in the US.
-GSD
wig
My reasoning is that there was no point giving Boxer hell cause she’d just say she agrees with me- DiFi is the one whose position I want to change. Bilbray’s a waste of time.
I’ve called Difi’s office a few times this morning. It’s early here on the West Coast. Probably too angry to speak to anyone there anyway.
InfoNut @ 23
I stopped that particular insanity more than twenty years ago but it’s something I always have to be aware of.
It’s easy to pick up the remote and change the channel when the chimp comes on and it’s just as easy to mute the TV and make a call to Pelosi’s office to complain while I watch chimpy or snowjob look down their noses at us.
Doing the same thing and expecting different results for too many Americans in the US means bitch’ and moanin’ while waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting.
I’ve been making phone calls since Friday using zip codes from folks here…..it’s always the same, we’ll revisit this in six months…it’s just temporary….s/he is very concerned and cares deeply about our privacy and the constitution.
Those are the Democratc Party talking points, the feel good talking points of identifying with the constituent, the “I feel your pain” of Bill Clinton as he did the GOP’s dirty work of doing away with welfare.
The insanity we have to avoid is letting these people think they can fool us and get away with it.
scary picture of the day. EEEEK!
I sent off 2 e-mails. One to my Representative Leonard Boswell-D IA-03. and another to a progressive candidate that ran for Governor last year and lost. I am actively looking for a grassroots progressive to challenge Boswell in the primary.
I pointed out the fact that Boswell voted to continue funding for the war, voted against censuring Alberto Gonzales and now recently voted yes to expand NSA’s domestic spying on American’s. I could have voted for the Republican challenger to Boswell and had the same outcome. I say target Blue Dog’s like they are R’s!
rwcole @ 88
great idea! Would love to hear what they have to say “For the record…”
Do any of us think or feel that the Democrats in Congress are taking us for granted with impunity? After all. We have no place else to go.
Wonder if we approached republicans differently on the FISA legislation they just passed away. The one that gave away their and our civil liberty and would allow the gov’t to spy on their overseas telephone calls and communications with friends and family? What if one said, oh, so you be fine with say having someone like President Clinton, with Attorney General Janet REno and DCI George Tenet being in charge of this program without any real oversight or checks an balances? Wonder what they’d say. Unless they aren’t afraid of having Dems in the executive branch ever again. Or perhaps they’d resort to their typical fear, terra, terra, terra…9/11 spiel?
marc sobel @ 75
Because the FISA votes in both the House and Senate were fixed, there was no right way. It’s rather like Lieberman’s vote against Alito. That vote too was rigged and Lieberman’s vote meant nothing.
I am not sure that the quality of the letters, faxes, e-mails, etc. makes much difference- in the end they must end up on a tote-board–so many positive- so many negative.. They may have sub categories for “Mildly displeased” and “mad as hell”- I don’t know. Does anyone have some insight into how these things are handled? It would be important to know.
SanderO @ 75
That is sadly what I have concluded.
Either we’ll get an FDR type of leader to lead us or we’ll end up with the kind of guy that FDR ended up defeating.
-GSD
jayt @ 92
I just did some searching, and it turns out Burton has an office in the same park as my building. I think I’m gonna take a little stroll down there tomorrow on my lunch break :-)
GSD @ 93
!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 83
If what powwow posted earlier was true, that the House voted under unanimous consent, then my Rep. (Markey) is every bit as complicit of this pernicious legislation as the 41 Dem Reps. who voted for it. So why exactly should I thank him?
Darkie @ 61 – That was just beautiful. Thanks for the reminder.
Subway Serenade @ 97
Ack!
but you warned us
Thunderbird @ 105
Good for you. Julia Carson is mine, and she voted correctly, as she almost always does.
Good Morning Christy…. Lordy am I tired!
My brand new shinny Democratic Congressperson who has been a progressive in the past AND applied to be a Blue Dog and was turned down (wow) voted YEA… Even the real Blue Dog Giffords voted NAY so WTF?
Lets see….. my DFA Linkup meeting is Wednesday… Sunday at 12-2 is the local Phoenix Progressive radio program that we sponsor…. I guess our action item will be “Call Harry”
rwcole @ 103
My Gooper Senator John Ensign always replies to my letters.
But, it’s always the same boilerplate Bush-apology talking-points bullshit obviously cut & pasted by some staffer.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 100
Absolutely. They are counting on our intense dislike of the Rethugs to keep us voting for Dems.
I have already started writing to various Congress Critters that I will no longer support ANY incumbent Dems UNLESS they IMPEACH Bush and Cheney. No more money. No more volunteering for campaigns. Not one more vote for an incumbent.
That is the only way I can think of to focus their attention.
Let’s not forget who the enemy is. Over the past few days, I have been seeing a lot of Dem Party bashing and a lot from “new” screen names. One was so stupid, that he called it the “Democrat” Party. I am also very pissed off, but rather than trying to bash our Party, I am focused on electing more of the “right kind” of people to Congress.
The basic irony here is while expanding FISA so the president and his Neonuts have broader surveillance powers, they don’t have the basic tools to understand the data they collect. You know, like being fluent in the many Arabic languages and dialects, in depth understanding of the culture and mores of the people, expansive knowledge of their literature and poetry. Little meaningful like that.
However, they can get any info they want on us and interpret it in any manner they so choose.
BobbyG @ 88
Everything in the executive branch of this government is at the disposal of and subservient to the RNC. This whole thing is about “opposition research,” i.e., digging up dirt on Democrats. And the Democrats damn well know that but they still go along. Unbelieveable!
Look at the grip that J. Edgar Hoover had on everyone in Washington via the information he had on them. His files were nothing compared to the Total Information Awareness that has just been reauthorized. To some extent, the Democrats who voted for this legislation signed their own death warrants (politically speaking, of course). Lunacy!!
OT, talk about poetic justice:
CONCORD, New Hampshire (AP) — French President Nicolas Sarkozy lost his temper with two American news photographers covering his vacation Sunday, jumping onto their boat and scolding them loudly in French.
rw at 101 — My understanding is that letters do get read by staffers, and certain ones are pulledout as representative samples of opinion for the elected rep to read. But that face to face contact is the thing most listened to across the board.
That includes just showing up at an elected representative’s office and speaking with a staffer. Or calling, making an appointment and talking with your elected official and/or a staffer along with several of your political pals. (Like we have done in the past here at FDL, and what I’m asking folks to do here as well.) THAT apparently has quite an impact — especially where we then have folks come back to the blog with reports on how things went, or with video or audio and the like.
THAT starts to get some serious notice. And action. On a number of fronts. (I linked up the bit yesterday from the Clinton visit that was so spot on with this. That was a huge public accountability moment, and one I’d like to see repeated for a lot of elected folks this summer.)
phred @ 111
Or they are counting on you being so mad you vote for another Nader. Either way, bend over.
I’m going to really hate having to tell Julia Carson that I’m not contributing to *any* Democratic incumbents, unless and until the party as a whole gets its act together.
IMO, a boycott of contributions to all incumbents, even those who tend to do the right thing, and “get it”, would send those incumbents back to D.C., with righteous anger and terrible fury – to be directed at Blue Dogs.
Bobby
Yeah- I get the same. What I’m wondering about is how the staff communicates the results of all this to the senator- and whether a letter just gets counted as a letter or if there are style points involved.
FWIW, I called the district office of Ben Chandler in KY (the district I grew up in). I identified myself as not being a constituent but that I have plenty of friends and family who are. I expressed my displeasure with his FISA vote and confusion that he is trusting Abu while co-sponsoring the legislation for impeachment. Staffer took my number and promised someone would get back to me.
I also decried the lack of moral courage in comparison to his grandfather.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 116
Would you expand on this in a future post? Not being a legal eagle, or even very cognizant of much of how things work in congressional offices, a sort of tutorial and tips for what works and what not to do (Miss Manners guide for the voting masses *g*) would be so useful!
Thanks for considering….
How come there was no panel discussing impeachment at YK07?
Not even discussing it…
Pelosi took it off the table. right?
rwcole @ 92
Good point. But I think that DiFi is pretty hopeless. I’d like to see a moderate Republican defeat her, to open that position to real progressives.
raven @ 120
Yeah well clearly the Dems have been a huge improvement. My allegicance is to the Constitution and my country NOT a party. And neither party gives a damn about their constituents — just their donors, so you are just as screwed as I.
rwcole @ 86
They’ll just say that it expires in 60 days … blah … blah .. blah
I wouldn’t give a red cent to these people. We need to abolish private financing of campaigns not try to out fund the corporations.
rwcole @ 103
Yes. And someone spoke elequently on this downstairs. I worked for a summer in the Senate a while ago. My task was to do the tally counting for a bunch of issues based on the letters that came in (this was pre-email). Then I had to type out the 2-line or so boiler plate responses. The tallies mattered. The NRA was amazing on that score,the amount of mail we got from them was huge. (No way we were going to piss them off). It mattered not a bit how eloquently (or in what detail) the letter was written. (NRA was often a mass produced 2 inch by 4 inch cut out of something with a line for a signature and address). On the other hand, letters from experts on a specific matter up for review or not (especially those from the state, but not only locals) were scrutinized with care, and often were followed up with a phone call). It was a Republican office (back when they were honest and responsible). And, an excellent Senator and staff.
SanderO @ 122
Also, no panel on the war. Not even good Q on war in prez panel or Hillary’s & Obama’s breakouts.
phred — I don’t know about you, but I like to wait until I get as much information as possible before turning into a stubborn mule. And, as we haven’t gotten our hands on the rules committee work as yet, the verdict is still out for me on exactly what happened. Powwow’s analysis is useful with what we publicly have at the moment — but it is, alas, incomplete until we get everything.
And, for that matter, how exactly is any rep. complicit simply by being in the room unless and until you can show that they had a hand in crafting something devious? Jeebus, cutting off your nose to spite your face isn’t exactly useful for you, now is it?
wig
I’m not for giving up any seats until there’s at least a five seat majority—the senate is still a razor thin majority and there are supreme court seats in the balance- NOT EVEN LIEBERMAN.
jayt @ 118
It is a good idea. Because then you tie them together. Make the Feingold’s and others lean on the strays. Besides, would Nancy like to go back to the minority? It would be painful, but we can just as well stay home.
SanderO — That’s a question you’d have to ask the people who organized the conference. And, as that was not any of us, I’m not certain how to answer it other than to say “No idea. But it’s a good question.” It was, however, brought up a number of times, including on panels that I participated in…
BobbyG @ 89
I think that this law, in addition to immunizing the private telecoms companies for past unlawful/illegal behavior, also will enable them to share more fully in the black budget through secret contracts that will rewrad them for their willingness to violate their customers’ privacy rights.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 116
This works well. I am also active in my local Democratic Party mostly to influence the other volunteers to be activists. That too has been effective. I am not interested in stuffing envelopes and waving flags but I do hold sessions at my home on hot issues (Iraq, immigration, education, healthcare) and we break up into groups and discuss it. Ah, Democrats! Put thirty people in a room and they have thirty different solutions.
Richmond @ 127
I hear you. Even a nitwit like Man-on-Dog Santorum had some decent people working for him(the few times I called his office).
phred @ 124
I was talking about a “global you” not you are a person.
rwcole @ 130
Good point.
Richmond
Thanks- that is very helpful. We need more of that kind of information on how input is treated at congresscritters’ offices. How did you tally the letters? Just “for” and “against”?
Just tried to call DiFi in SF for a couple of minutes. Busy busy. I hope everyone is calling like me to give her h*ll.
And today Postcards are great (quickest-because they get through the anthrax mess quickly).
The deck chairs look so much nicer now the Democrats control Congress!
Line from my DiFi missle:
“During threatening times, the Constitution is most at risk- and it needs heroic defenders now, not undertakers”
rwcole @ 142
A winner!
Biodun @ 3
Not really. How can the Rethugs be more fucked than the Dems who are also tying their wagon to Bush? When have they ever NOT given Bush what he wants after he stamps his imperial foot?
The Dems ARE tied to Bush and all his favors every bit as much as the GOPers are. The GOPers are honest about it, however, by speaking AND acting in Bush’s interests. The Dems, on the other hand, SAY anti-Bush/Cheney things while acting in Bush’s interests.
Both parties are CLEARLY in a race to see which one can suppress the vote the most. Who the hell wants to vote for EITHER side at this point?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 129
It is pow-wow’s info and analysis I am waiting for before I contact my rep, who voted No as expected.
There were some serious shenanigans going on that allowed this bill to the floor. I want to be as informed as possible when I question him or his staff: thank him for his No vote but ask for explanations of how this happened and what he can do to prevent it.
What I don’t get is the missing uproar from the Dems who voted No and, to me, they should be as furious as their consituents – they were screwed over too. Their leadership helped the UnitExec shred the Constitution. Hello?
rwcole @ 138
Yup. We divided them into piles and counted them up each day. There was simply no time to read the letters in great detail unless it was on a more narrow topic. But we got a nice *g* when people used pretty pink stationary or inserted things like pressed flowers or recipes. They counted the same, but you got the feeling they meant a little more symbolically.
wigwam @ 123
When have you seen a moderate Republican make it through the Republican primary in CA? And even if one did, those moderate Republicans helped us none at all when it allowed full control to the Replican majority.
I’m mad enough that I’m willing to go door to door to help any progressive go against DiFi in the primaries. I would love to see her get a good challenge from the left.
I’ll vote for her only if she manages to win her primary.
Oh, forgot… THANKS to pow-wow!
Raw Story says that Bush is still dissatisfied and wants even MORE authority that what was granted under this latest FISA amendment…
(laughing bitterly)
Could there be some sunshine here in a lawsuit? :
james @ 133
Feel free anyone to correct me if I am wrong but it is not my understanding that the new FISA law grants retroactive immunity to the telecoms or anyone else.
P J Evans @ 87
I truly pray it is not Tamm, because if it is, he’s in seriously dire straits. I guess if you could leak to the NYT, you could leak to the internet – especially, if you think they are about to nab you on the NYT leak…I dunno. Scary. I hope he wasn’t the one that leaked to the NYT either.
Dear Senator Webb,
You were in a tight race with George Allen last year. I gave money to your campaign because I thought you were the better man. I am not a lobbyist and I don’t expect anything from you but that you uphold the Constitution when you vote for any bill. Last week you voted to weaken the Constitution.
At the rate things are going there may not be a Constitution to defend by the time the next election rolls around.
“Free is free. Nothing else is.” – Sojourner Truth
That’s why I want to see my own critters face-time. I’ve sent them letters and faxes in the past.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 132
My point is that both parties go through the motions of catering to their base while delivering nothing of substance. The Constitution is being shredded before our very eyes with the Dems actively helping in its destruction. How exactly does it help to continue to work with and for a group of people who repeatedly stab us in the back?
I agree that we a caught between a rock and a hard place. We have a system designed to prevent third parties from establishing more than a token hold. We have a political funding system where their is no financial incentive for Congressional representatives to vote in the best interest of their constituents. We have a media that has a vested interest in repeating the narrative that best suits those in power.
I don’t know how best to squeeze out from this trapped position we are in. But it is well past time for some seriously creative thinking about how to restore representative democracy. For my part, going after incumbents in an effort to shake up the system (with the hope of changing federal campaign financing) is a good place to start.
And yes, the jury is still out on the details of the rules in place for this vote. Until we do know the details, I don’t have a reason to thank anyone.
Richmond- thanks again- that’s what I figured- so it all comes down to “for” or “against” and a sentence is as good as fifty paragraphs.
When I call my congressperson, I have my points written down so I don’t go off point and create confusion for both the aide and me. My purpose is to address something specific so it gets clearly relayed.
When my congressperson comes to my area, as often as possible I attend the event which is sometimes in someone’s home and it is related to raising money. The public events aren’t unless you wish to. One of the advantages in being an activists is the Party community gets to know who you are and doors are open to you. Like anything else, it is building a network.
I find I am most effective by not being contentious while having a different perspective. If I make those around me “wrong” it only degrades them and they shut off. That does not serve my intent well.
rwcole @ 142
So the question for DiFi is: *where* should we be looking for such heroic defenders?
Hilde with an e @ 145
From Pow-wow’s post in the previous thread, it would appear that even these self righteous “no” voters are fully complicit in getting it to the floor. There appears to be NO good guys at all in the House on this bill. They ALL need to feel the anger. Every one of them.
mui @ 149
could ATT threaten to cut the cable if they don’t get shielded from lawsuits?
OldCoastie @ 148
This is what happens when you cave too fast…the other party realizes thay didn’t ask for all they could have.
Suckers.
Here are phone numbers for the Representatives.
AnnieW @ 62
Even though you can’t change the Nutjobs, you can scare them. [Mods - I’m talking POLITICALLY here]. Write, call, e-mail. Make it a game for yourself: how to get the message that they made a bad vote across to them. Maybe create a message that appears that it’s from RIGHT field: “you gave away our constitutional rights” can sound like it’s coming from there.
Mostly just do what you can to let them know you’re paying attention and you think this sucks. They rely on the sleep of sheep.
raven @ 139
Sorry raven, I should not be taking my foul temper out on you (the You you, not the Global you ;)
anangryoldbroad, you still around?
We can only hope that Clusterfuck refuses to sign this monstrosity.
I don’t have a link but it seems yesterday I read that the telecoms are very worried about getting sued even with the latest expansion… the Raw Story article shows that they are still pressuring the shrub for more protections and are not happy.
mui @ 149
Hmmmmm … could it be that *not* all the telecom dogs are republican koolaid drinkers??
Hilde at 147 — I think you are under the mistaken impression that I did not appreciate powwow’s analysis. Wrong. What I said was, until we get the rules committee information, it is incomplete.
This isn’t some sort of competitive comments dance, it is a fact. I try not to jump up and down about something until I have as many facts as I can get at my fingertips. And, at the moment, I’m waiting for the rules committee information and a couple of calls back on factual issues on this, rather than rushing to judgment only to find out that what people surmise may have occurred actually didn’t. I think that is the prudent way to go — it’s how we operated on information through the Fitzgerald investigation and everything else we do. If that offends, then that’s just too bad — because that’s just how I work. Period.
I’ve posted all the Senators who voted for this and linked to their home pages – no distiction for party. There’s a similar page for the House there as well. I hope it’s an easy way for folks to find out if their representatives were part of this and to contact them if so.
http://pruningshears.squarespa…..votes.html
Christy Hardin Smith @ 71
The Legislative Branch has abdicated its responsibility and allowed the installation of an Absolutist ‘Elective’ Monarchy.
I know. It’s a tiresome comment. But it doesn’t take up much space, and it calls a spade a spade.
rwcole @ 168
My understanding is he signed it sunday
edit: besides, it gave him what he was asking for at the time.
And, on letters to Congress. The Surge renewal is coming up in Sept. We need to get on it now to let them know how we feel-by the millions! The other side has already started putting in op-ed pieces in the NYT, and TV is pressing this too. If we want to have an impact we need to have a HUGE amount of mail waiting for them on their return. Something which says to them that the poles out there are not only correct, but this is one of those things (like NRA) that you just don’t want to piss the people off on. (p.s. It doesn’t help a tenth as much to voice our anger after the vote is already done).
LS @ 151
I think that if the person who leaked were traceable, s/he would have been raided long ago. I’m thinking of meeting in dark garages, dead drops in Roch Creek Park, etc.
fdl reader @ 167
Well we once had a list of the bad apples. I forget who they were. AT&T was one, I vaguely remember. *pounding forehead*
This voted reminds me once again that is that the only thing worse than a chickenhawk is a chicken**it.
You make a lot of sense Richmond- great to have you here!!
Thanks RWCole. I look for your comments when I’m on because I like what you have to say.
mui @ 177
I think all but Quest bowed to BushCo from the beginning
Christy Hardin Smith @ 167
No, I didn’t think that at all. I’m appreciating your measured response here – guess I’m lousy at writing comments on blogs while talking on phone at work and reading email :-)
My point is same: I VERY appreciative of pow-wow’s and your analysis of what came down because I think it’s imperative that I be as informed as possible, especially since my rep is a Yeller Yeller Dog. His No vote was expected, but I want him to give me his explanation of this mess. And, I want him to know that I can challenge him if he tries to wiggle.
Of course, I’m informed because of the hard work you do and the others here at FDL. For that I offer my deepest, most patriotic THANKS!
dakine01 @ 178
That’s what I recall, as well.
Praedor Atrebates — you here in this thread?
Asked towards end of last thread how you conveyed request to Leahy in re: your genius idea.
Did you ask his staffer on Judiciary Committee, too? Did you ask his COS and legislative director? I’m ready to send a note to them if you haven’t already.
;-)
mui @ 176
AT&T and Verizon — I don’t remember the third (SBC? Qualcomm?) Qwest was the only one who thought to ask for a warrant and the feds never came back to ask again. Funny about that huh?
AT&T may not have drunk the Kool-aid, but their concern is not about handing over records, they just want to make sure they can’t be sued. Otherwise they are untroubled by the constitutional ramifications of their actions.
Right about now is a good example of why I feel so helpless to live in a solidly red state like Texas. My senators and reps (except the local Jackson-Lee, good on her) could care less what I think of this issue and many others. They have a HUGE margin of voters drinking the Koolaid.
AT&T absorbed SBC about two years ago now, phred. I used to work for SBC before that merger took place.
ACLU “Spy Map” and actions against Verizon and AT&T.
fdl reader @ 168
No. They are just afraid of being sued if the law doesn’t hold up.
dakine01 @ 179
Crap. That’s right. I forgot.
Called:
Pryor
Feinstein
Salazar
Carper
Nelson
Bayh
Landrieu
Mikulski
Klobuchar
McCaskill
Nelson
Conrad
Webb
Now I’m going to get some lunch & let my heart rate slow down.
probably gonna be EPU’d, but:
Olbermann’s hosting a Dem debate tomorrow night.
The person I talked to @ MSNBC didn’t know whether there is a way to e-mail or otherwise suggest questions, but I may get a call back. Or someone here could maybe figure it out.
I’d like to see KO bring up the FISA vote, even though no one in front of him will have voted in favor of it – but they still should be made to answer as to what happened within the party they are all seaking to lead.
aliasofwestgate @ 186
Thanks — I knew that AT&T was reacquiring the Baby Bells they once spun off, but didn’t realize they had gotten SBC back. Can’t keep a good monopoly down, eh?
Bloc @ 182
Call ‘em anyway. Can’t hurt to let ‘em know not everyone agrees with them. Consider it your donation to the 50-state strategy.
rwcole @ 101
You’re right: it’s not the quality, it’s the QUANTITY.
They are handled [especially in Senate offices] a la toteboard:
**here are the issues we got letters/cards/calls/e-mails on this week; this issue got the most mail.
**here’s how the correspondence broke out on [the Big Issue] — this many for, this many against.
The mail handlers can also tell how much is “generated” — e.g., folks sending in postcards that were handed to them, all they did was fill in their name. That’s why an “original” card/letter etc. “counts” more.
You have to go into this, the writing, calling, showing up @ meet-n-greets, knowing that you won’t change anyone’s mind — at least your arguments won’t. But your NUMBERS might. Finding out that a hell of a lot of your constituents — the ones you thought were asleep, not paying attention, easily satisfied by the pablum you dish out in newsletters etc. — actually are awake, paying attention and aware of your vote is scary to Congress Critters.
Consider this a macabre form of “American Idol:” get everyone you know to “vote” for our constitution by contacting the “elected representative” in as many ways, and as frequently as possible.
mui @ 186
and then the head of Qwest was investigated and charged with fraud
jayt @ 188
try countdown@msnbc.com
Bloc @ 184
I’m in NY. My Rep and my Senators all voted ‘nay’. Doesn’t help. I still feel helpless. Maybe more so.
fdl reader @ 168
I think it is less a matter of conscience and more a case of CYA.
phred @ 183
That’s what your supposed to do if you’re a librarian.
Rayne @ 182
This came into fruition on Saturday I believe, when the senate had already hi-tailed it to their little vacations. I emailed Leahy at that point and have not yet made an actual phonecall. I may fax as well.
Is it not my correct understanding that the Iran/Contra goons were off scott-free because the Congress fell down and gave them immunity for testimony? It is my understanding of this early Dem collapse on government crime that made me wonder about Tamm and immunity here.
phred @ 193
You have it reversed – SBC acquired the remainder of the old ATT then renamed themselves
JF @ 165
Yep,sorry about that,I’m packing up school supplies and clothes for my friends at Pine Ridge. I’ll be in and outta here all day til after dinner time.
eCAHNomics says
August 6th, 2007 at 9:32 am
try countdown@msnbc.com
Thank you – (scurrying off to type)
SanderO @ 122
Bingo! We have a winnah!
I’ve watched the devolution of kos. It started with the 9/11 tinfoil hatters (like me).
Then it was the stolen elections tin foil hatters (like me)
Then there were the martial law tin foil hatters (like me).
Now the one who crashed the gate all by himself seems to be closing it behind him. TeddySanFran
and Siun provide insight to what was an inevitable outcome.
Their posts reminded me of the end of Orwell’s “!984″.
For me, no thanks. I’ll keep the hat.
solai @ 194
I’m also from NY, but I’ve called (almost) every D senator who voted for it. They’ll take (& convey I hope) your message even if you’re not in district.
eCAHNomics @ 189
You rock! I’ll be making calls tomorrow (and don’t worry Christy, I’ll be polite — I promise :)
Rules Committee follow-up (to my comment above @ 47):
I may be mistaken in thinking that there was Rules Committee action on Saturday, August 4th with regard to H.Res. 615 (or anything else, including FISA). This is the beginning of that resolution, as presented to the House on Saturday:
And here’s Friday’s Rules Committee action on those bills (without a resolution number listed, but accompanying the passage that evening of Resolutions #613 and #614):
http://www.rules.house.gov/rules_news.aspx
So although I can’t directly connect the number 615 with the information on the Rules Committee website for H.R. 3221 and H.R. 2775, it looks as though that may be the resolution number assigned to the rules for those bills as issued by the Rules Committee on Friday.
Their website obviously won’t list a negative (no Saturday meeting), so until further notice (confirmation from a Rules Committee member perhaps?), I think it’s probably safe to say that the Rules Committee was not involved with the FISA legislation after 8:05 p.m. on Friday night.
Elliott @ 194
That sounds a lot like this:
Question I’d most like to see asked of every dem candidate:
“Can you commit to americans that if elected you will immediately reverse this law through executive order and request an immediate change in the law from congress?”
anangryoldbroad @ 199
I’m in East Cobb. Where are you?
jayt @ 190
Here’s the person to contact with questions:
Jeremy Gaines, MSNBC
(201) 583-5362
Jeremy.gaines@msnbc.com
Praedor didn’t respond here…FYI, I contacted Leahy’s COS, Legislative Director and Press Secretaries for both Leahy and the Senate Judiciary with request about Tamm.
Keep your fingers crossed. Just have to work smarter, not harder.
powwow — I’m not certain that is safe to say — which is why I have some calls out at the moment…
From Raw Story. Is this some kabuki to make us feel better or for real? Please let it be true.
Rayne @ 210
Excellent!
JF @ 209
I can almost throw a rock and hit Cherokee county. So we aren’t too far apart it seems
Solai @ 212
But the kids are all out at recess….
phred and aliasofwestgate
ATT didn’t buy SBC, SBC bought them and changed its name. (That was after SBC bought PacBell and some of the other spun-off baby Bells.)
Praedor Atrebates @ 199
The courst ruled that Ollie North and Poindexter convictions could not be shown to be bias free from their immunized testimony.
Tancredo continues to spout off about bombing Mecca. Is he the MOST insane candidate for president we have ever had? Unfuckingbelievable.
eCAHNomics @ 204
I left a comment on Hillary’s election blog saying that she didn’t do enough to stop it. It hasn’t appeared yet. They tell you that there is a lag. Will check later.
dakine01 @ 199
Like Zeus then? Didn’t he spring into being fully formed, then swallowed his parents?
Further to my 210:
To cover all the bases, you can also contact:
Steve Smith, AFL-CIO
(202) 637-5018
Here’s the person to contact with questions:
Jeremy Gaines, MSNBC
(201) 583-5362
Jeremy.gaines@msnbc.com
That is who I called.
mui @ 198
Yeah, but we all know that librarians are made of sterner stuff than coporate CEOs ;)
jayt @ 91
I’ve been somewhat active in Northern Indiana and have contacts with county parties in at least 4 counties as well as some DFA folks and peace groups in and around South Bend.
I helped out with a primary challenger to Joe Donnelly, but got behind Donnelly after that — and he’s definitely better than Count Chocula, whom he defeated, but I have to say I will certainly like to see another primary challenge after this vote.
I also have contacts in the state party headquarters, although I can’t say I have much “influence.” Depending on how primaries go, I may have some small, actual influence with our gubernatorial candidate — but that doesn’t help with these national issues.
phred @ 221
Not an uncommon occurrence on the re-naming but SBC didn’t buy ATT until after acquiring other baby bells. Verizon snapped up NYNEX and GTE so between the two, most have been re-constituted
Hugh @ 151
Hugh,
I don’t see anything in the bill that deals with “retroactive immunity”, but IANAL.
The bill does however, remove any liability for those that provide:
no, Wigwam, we need to mount a challenger to the incumbent. Electing a rethug is rarely to never going to be the best choice. Nor is not voting, nor throwing your vote at a third party candidate who has no chance of winning.
And, for the record, because my faith in our election systems is gone, I still question Lamont’s loss in CT – there is all that unexplained petty cash that we never found about it. Leiberman for election rigging? I have no problem with that as he’s already established that he has no integrity whatsoever.
Rayne @ 211
Did too! Did too!
Thanks, Christy @ 211. I think I’ve exhausted the readily-available on-line sources of information on this.
A reminder for everyone of the membership of the (powerful) House Committee on Rules, on the off chance that someone can reach a member (or maybe Rules Committee staff would be easier and just as definitive?) to verify their actions on Saturday (not sure how else to confirm this point beyond these sorts of calls, other than to keep checking their website to see whether Saturday action ever gets listed):
LOUISE McINTOSH SLAUGHTER, NY – CHAIRWOMAN
JAMES P. McGOVERN, MA
ALCEE L. HASTINGS, FL
DORIS O. MATSUI, CA
DENNIS CARDOZA, CA
PETER WELCH, VT
KATHY CASTOR, FL
MICHAEL ARCURI, NY
BETTY SUTTON, OH
DAVID DREIER, CA
Ranking Minority Member
LINCOLN DIAZ-BALART, FL
DOC HASTINGS, WA
PETE SESSIONS, TX
http://www.rules.house.gov/rules_news.aspx
phred @ 224
Shhhh. No talking here. People are reading.
In my part of CT, I’ve got Chris Murphy (great), Chris Dodd (surprisingly right on), and douchebag. So my calling (which I’ve done) doesn’t help advance the ball down the field. Therefore, I’ve been giving — e.g., to Darcy Burner and Jim Himes.
anangryoldbroad @ 58
And if you want a break from GA, I’m in South Alabama and open to making new friends.
anangryoldbroad @ 213
Not far at all. I know there are others of us in the general area. A meetup one of these days would be great.
You know what’s really scary about this? I’m not kidding by the way – people are visiting my blog. A lot. I wrote an article about the FISA mess on Friday. It was picked up on buzzflash Saturday, and I’ve now gotten more visitors in two days than I had in the previous two months. One out of ten of them clicks the links, too.
It wasn’t even all that good an article. I wrote it in a hurry and I was only doing it because it beat shouting or screaming as a response.
I think people are really upset about this, and they’re looking everywhere for an explanation.
The bill does however, remove any liability for those that provide:
(l) Notwithstanding any other law, no cause of action shall lie in any court against any person for providing any information, facilities, or assistance in accordance with a directive under this section.
They slipped the “John Doe” law in there? Shit.
Cujjo359 @ 235
Well congratulations anyway. Even if the occasion stinks.
Jonathan @ 232
Yeah, you better believe I checked on my congress critter, Delauro
For those that want to actually “read” the FISA Surrender Bill:
Go here for the PDF.
A more readable version can be found here at TPM.
JF @ 233
J,email me at gardenspirit1 at hotmail.com and we can maybe hash out a way to get people together. I am swamped today until school starts next week,but after that I have some breathing room.
pow wow @ 228
Thanks POW-WOW and CHRISTY.
I spent a good part of Sunday combing through what I could find too. I don’t think there is a written record of it, and that’s a little disturbing. But it may be that it’s just too early yet.
I’ve got to get back to work. Will comb through the threads tonight to find any updated info.
THANKS!
All: off to the library to read, research and (w)rite.
Any New Yawkers here who know of a really cheap place to find a room for a nite? (Hostels all booked, and Craig’s List hasn’t been fruitful on this one.) My alma mater now charges hotel rates for a dorm room – harrumph!
Thanks and hugs to you all, as always-
carolyn urban @ 228
Lieberman is 110% corrupt. That fact is no US attorney will investigate. Go figure. Last time I heard he had a part time job as Abu’s aide.
anangryoldbroad @ 15
Well this sucks. I suggest you gather a friend or two and show up in person. Christy’s right – these people are your public servants. Also, I’d write a letter to the editor and broadcast this information – that citizens, voters, are being denied access and HUNG UP on. OUTRAGEOUS.
This from TPM
Is the D Warner any better than the other D turncoats who were elected in 06?
Cujjo359 @ 234
That’s not scary — that’s encouraging!
eCAHNomics @ 245
Most of “les bleu” we supported did right by us, i.e. the Constitution.
This thread is moving so fast, I couldn’t get in to edit mine @ 193.
I wanted to add that quality does count for a bit. As someone said previously, as a staffer it’s nice to read something “readable” as opposed to a crazy rant.
But, the truth is, each communication represents a “voter.” No intelligence or style test before going into the voting booth; Congress Critters know that.
Christy, maybe those of us who’ve worked on the Hill could put together some of the “suggestions” we’ve written in various posts on the last few threads. I’ve tried to impart what knowledge I gained from my experience there, but it’s scattered among several posts. Others have made useful contributions.
LMK.
dakine01 @ 226
Last time I talked with an SBC cable guy, I asked how I would know if he was a spy or the real thing. He said: I wouldn’t be here. SBC would send someone else. SBC employees don’t deal with the government stuff.
So I take it SBC would sanction a government worker in a cable guy uniform to go and do the dirty work. Supposedly they keep their lower level employees out of the fray.
N=1 @ 242
Try The Bond Hotel Chambers Street. Take the 2 or 3 train. Haven’t been there in years, but give them a call.
For years goopers pissed and moaned about Goopers who were too far left- especially moderates on the east coast. They wanted to run primary candidates against em- and get em out of office…They are now mostly out of office- replaced by dems- and goopers have lost both houses.
Now- with a one seat majority in the senate- some dems are pissing about dem senators who are too far right- etc etc etc.
jayt @ 236
that gives them some comfort, but IMHLO there is still a risk that the whole thing goes out the window if it’s found unconstitutional, thereby leaving the massive telecom asses uncovered for all to sue.
mauimom
Why don’t YOU do the summary- it’s exactly what many of us need- it could be permanently linked on the home page.
mui @ 248
Yikes! I can’t believe the guy had an answer for your question. Evidently, it is something that happens then… Otherwise, I would think he would have responded with a joke.
N=1
There are also some inexpensive rooms around Astor Place (8th St) take the Number 6 train and walk east. You’ll see them.
mauimom @ 247
Please do, Mauimom and Christy! And Mauimom – could I crosspost your earlier how-to comment on my blog as a reference guide?
Thanks!
A Plan: I work near a well-frequented U.S. postal box. I am going to print out at nearby Kinkos about 200 post card size rectangles, address them to my Congress people. On the other side I will write: “Vote NO on a renewal of the failed Surge policy when it comes up for vote.” Signed:_______________________. Address_____________________.I will afix stamps to them all and pass them out to passersby until they are gone.
oddmommy @ 252
There’s no doubt in my mind that it’s unconstitutional. Standing is the problem. The “John Doe” portion, however, might in fact be the opening to standing. If a private citizen rats out a neighbor for vengeance or spite, the wronged party would easily have standing. Probably limited, however, to only that particular section, not the bill as a whole.
Subway Serenade @ 254
Thanks! I come into Chinatown, so that will be easy to get to!
Has anyone else noticed how infrequently the headlines at Raw Story match the story they are linked to? You’d think that through random chance some would match.
Link to the censure resolutions from Sen. Feingold’s website. Thought the folks who were mentioning it would like to look at the PDF texts.
Richmond @ 253
Good on you.
rwcole @ 260
Perhaps they should narrow their interests to have a better chance.
“NO SEARCHES WITHOUT WARRANTS”
Constitution of the US of A
Any other Difi constituents here?
Wondring if anyone has gotten through to a local office?
rwcole @ 264
As of Saturday.
tbsa @ 265
Got a day off tomorrow. Will be stopping by her SF office…
Lindy @ 233
I had a suspicion you might be who I thought you were.;)
e-mail me.
Sonya
jayt @ 258
hmm. Interesting point. I don’t know what cause of action the injured party would have in that situation though.
It seems to me that someone who sued a telecom which was complicit in Bush’s spying on him under the authority of the act, however, would be able to sue the telecom claiming simulataneously that (1) the law is unconstitutional, and (2) the “John Doe” provision falls with the rest of it.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 261
What does this achieve? I don’t understand its utility.
Christy – Feingold’s site also mentions Hinchey’s identical censure in the House. Go Maurice!!
oddmommy @ 265
how would you ever be able to find out they were spying on you?
newtonusr @ 267
I don’t seem to be able to get through anywhere but D.C. I want to talk to her, I want her to tell me exactly why she voted to take away our 4th amendment right.
N=1 — No idea. Haven’t had a chance to read it as yet because I’m (a) exhausted and (b) eating lunch. But I thought before folks started commenting on it, they might like to actually read the proposed resolution. Because that’s what I plan to do before I start commenting on it — just trying to be helpful with a link for folks to read and think for themselves, too.
sunny @ 266
e-mail address?
Not a constituent but, with the help of redial, got her SF office & left a message with the person who answered the phone.
N
Feingold- who is a cosponsor- says that the intention is for congress to go on record so that in the future people will know that the abuses were not tolerated without comment…
Lou, an aide from Congressman John Cambell’s office (4th district, Orange County, CA), said that people who disagree with the “overwhelming, majority vote” to renew and update FISA are “delusional” about the issue.
“Make no mistake,” he said, “John is a libertarian at heart, and he really believes in privacy.” However, that doesn’t hold true “when we have members of Al Quada calling in from/to foreign countries…” (sigh, you know the rest). His office is preparing a memo that explains his vote — no timeline for its being posted to the web. Lou told me to call back any time. He’s “not going to debate the issue,” but he’s happy to defend John’s vote.
sunny @ 266
I may not be who you think i am. I don’t have an e-mail address for you.
Congress cannot stay silent when the American people are demanding that this administration be held accountable for its blatant misconduct regarding Iraq and its attack on the rule of law,” Feingold said. “These censure resolutions will let future generations know that Congress stood up to the destructive policies of this administration that have weakened our national security, cost more than 3,600 American lives, and undermined the principles on which our country was founded. I applaud Congressman Hinchey for leading this charge for accountability in the House of Representatives.”
tbsa @ 264
Busy, busy busy phone lines since 9 AM. Hope they don’t have the phones off the hook – nah a US Senator wouldn’t be that childish. Oh wait, DiFi is a closeted repub.
Fresh thread on Iraq, up and running…
rwcole @ 253
Okey doke. Maybe what I’ll do is put one together, forward it to Christy, see what she might want to add from others’ posts, then she can link it.
N=1: see my message to you a couple of threads back. You’re welcome to cross-post my stuff.
rwcole @ 277
Does that mean that they ARE tolerated WITH comment? Not being snarky – just very unclear to me why they would do this instead of proceeding with impeachment. Is this all political theatrical posturing to disguise the reality of tolerance of Constitutional breaches and unwillingness to confront it?
Today is August 6th. Wonder what’s on today’s PDB?
I would like to see an independent investigation of the events of 9/11. I’m convinced that there may be there, there, and if there is there, there; it could stop the ending of America as we know it, dead in its tracks….but, alas, everyone is afraid to look there. I don’t understand why, because if there is no there, there; so be it.
Why not? It’s worth looking into without tinfoil – afterall, it is the essential underpinning of everything that has happened since. At least the relationship with Bandar Bush could be more publicly investigated. Just my 2 cents.
mauimom @ 284
Thank you!
Short version of Iraq Censure Resolution:
The President and Vice President lied to start the war, didn’t plan it sufficiently, and then kept lying about how well it was going. Here’s the penalty clause:
SEC. 2. CENSURE BY THE SENATE.
18 The Senate censures President George W. Bush and
19 Vice President Richard B. Cheney for-
20 (1) misleading the American people about the
21 basis for going to war in Iraq;
22 (2) failing to plan adequately for the war;
23 (3) pursuing policies in Iraq that have strained
24 our military and undermined our homeland security;
25 and
[page break]
1 (4) misleading the American people about the
2 insurgency in Iraq.
I don’t see what this is doing for us, but IANAL.
rwcole @ 277
Ooooooh! Showing the future victims that their slavery was “commented against” in the now defunct Congress! That will do wonders!
That is better than a strongly worded letter of complaint!
newspaperbrat @ 281
I’ve not been able to get through either. I’ve been trying since 9. I wouldn’t put it past her to take the phone off the hook. As I said a few days ago, I am certain the people in this state did not support her decision to support those who would continue to shred the constitution. I hope they are telling her what they think.
I read the bill at TPM via the link posted above. Reasonable is sure used a lot. Based on the NSL abuses that this DOJ has admitted to, why in the world would any congress person in their right mind would think it to be a good idea to give the Attorney General more authority under ambiguous terms?
Lindy @ 275
oops, I guess you’re not my pal Lindy. Hell, e-mail me anyway! I’m in South Alabama as well.
SONYMILL63 at aol dot com
N=1 @ 285
It means that we can’t even get all of the dems on board for censure. How in the hell would impeachment be successful. Sorry to sound so very disgusted but I am.
Elliott @ 272
Good question. I guess you could always ask the cable guy. Sounds flippant. But I’m always surprised by the questions that people actually do answer.
Meaning: Why should the Dems tie themselves to the GOP’s fringe base?
Phoenix Woman @ 295
Grabbing at lobbyist money, perhaps?
Praedor Atrebates @ 289
And what would you do, PA?
PW at 295 — No, why would the Dems want to tie themselves to a failed President, too?
mui @ 296
I think it’s learned helplessness.
The Dems are still stuck in 1994 Mode, when the media jumped all over the Clintons for both undoing the Reagan-Bush tax cuts (the undoing of which sparked the Clinton Boom and is the main reason why most of us aren’t yet eating dog food under a bridge) and for Hillary’s health care plan, which the “liberal” Howell Raines got great glee out of destroying. The Democrats lost Congress that year.
The lesson learned in 1994: Do good, be punished at the polls.
But this isn’t 1994 any more. And the media, even with FOX News and the GOP-controlled CPB (ever wonder why NPR now sounds like “Nice Polite Republicans”? Now you know), are having less and less success at gaslighting Americans — probably because the media sided with the GOP on attacking Clinton, Social Security, Terri Schiavo, and pretty much every other issue where Americans knew for a fact that the GOP position was the wrong one.
70% of America backs Democratic and progressive plans for the economy and ending the war in Iraq. Time for all the Democrats to start backing them, too.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 298
Yeah, that, too. :-)
To me, it looked at first blush that you were saying that the Dems shouldn’t tie themselves to the Dem base. But my reading-comprehension skills aren’t what they used to be.
Phoenix Woman @ 299
That’s true. I like that rationale better than thinking that lobbyist are abandoning the wreck of the Republikan party and the Dems (re: Clinton) have received some tantalizing offers.
I called Feinstein, Boxer, Pelosi and Waxman’s offices this morning. Just venting to the young, undoubtedly low-paid staffers who answer the phones didn’t feel like enough.
So I sent a fax expressing my outrage over the FISA legilsation to them (and Harry Reid) as well. I hope that a well written letter will have more of an impact than a phone message passesd along by the staffer.
After a whirlwind weekend in Chicago, I’m cranky and tired and in no mood for spinless Dems.
You know, I was thinking that this post of Christy’s would make an excellent thing to fax to our Congressional reps and Senators.
Fortunately, a conservative group has created an up-to-date list of phone and fax numbers for us to use (no 800#, alas).
Since e-mails get ignored, snail mail is avoided due to the anthrax scare, and phone calls often hit voice mail, faxing might be the best way to make a tangible, unavoidable statement. (Especially if the offices get a lot of these in their fax bins.)
sporkovat @ 61
Beat her in the .primary and take the race from the Republican, the best of both worlds
Brantl @ 304
Works for me!
The concept of Democratic spinelessness has become the conventional wisdom now. Chris Floyd’s article makes much more sense: http://www.chris-floyd.com/Art…..Democrats/
Congress says “This is a difficult situation?”
It’s a difficult job, you all asked for it.
Rent a goddamn spine.
pow wow @ 230 -
i’m way behind and now deep in epu land.
pow wow – i called the rules committee and was told that there was no meeting on saturday. then i called congressman mcgovern (vice-chair of the rules committee and my rep)’s office. the rules aide was not there, but i spoke to the aide who worked on fisa (jay) and was told that he thought the rules committee might have met but he wasn’t sure… he took my name an phone number and told me he’d ask the rules aide to call me back.
will look for you when i learn more (or if you are willing – email me at speakeasy dot net and i’ll let you know directly what i hear).
Oh, super, selise. Thank you for that! [I’m trailing behind here too.] This is very helpful. I’m going to copy your comment here to post at the end of the last thread to alert Praedor A. too who is writing (or has written) a DailyKos diary about this – so your info is just the ticket.
I’ll watch for your comments in later threads – and perhaps you could also post in the preceding thread if you learn anything definitive, so Praedor A. (hopefully) will see it too. Thanks again!
pow wow – just wanted to let you know that i did see your comment and will do just as you suggest… but right now it’s after 5, so i don’t think i’m getting a call back today. will call again tomorrow midday, if i haven’t heard anything (and no one else has either). although by then we may have answer on the rules committee website.
i’m glad to know that Praedor A. is going to write a dkos diary – i was worried i might have to if no one else did (it should be some one who can actually write).
I’ve been wondering why we aren’t actively seeking out primary challengers to DINO’s; are our resources stretched so thin that we can’t be hunting for legitimate Dems to replace the capitulators?
Or is it that such a campaign does exist, and I’m simply unaware of it?
I have e-mailed all the dems that i have supported moneterily and told them not to send me any begging letters or any info.They are just junk mail to me now.I will register as an independent now.We have to get the party back from these hacks.
Has anyone thought that this might have been done to enable CORPORATE spying? Since so many corporations now are operating globally, now have overseas divisions – and since (from many reports) over 70% of this surveillance is being done by outsourced contractors with little or no supervision of the details of what those contractors are doing – this is the biggest opportunity yet for insider trading as well as political spying with no consequences. What else did you expect?
Dear Christy –
They may work for us, but they are only loyal to the men with the money.
Torches and pitch forks may be the only answer
Christy,
Thanks for this. Finally a form I can use to yentz my elected ‘representatives’ Mizz Foxx, Mrs. Dole and Herr Burr about their inattention to the real issues (the people they claim to represent), and their rapt attention to Bidness Interests who don’t live in NC, and all that fund-raising instead of representing.
I could go on….