Christy!!!

It’s hot in Chicago, in more ways than one.

Let’s just call this the “You Work For Us” summer tour, shall we?

Or the “Stop Acting Like a P***y” summer tour….

With you Christy…Knocking

David you have some powerful arguments and so does Christy. It sounds as if you have been around a fair amount of time participating, and have some real reasons for feeling discouraged.

But what if… just what if more Americans actually participated in this “supposed” democracy and were far more vigilant and applied pressure on our representatives. What if instead of around 6 million Americans (nationwide) who marched against the invasion, 25 million had marched. Would they have still invaded?

I think Christy and many other Firedoglakers truely believe in truth and justice and are obviously committed. Although the reality on the ground that many of us have witnessed does not leave one terribly hopeful.

So what to do? Leave the country, roll over and play dead or stay and push as hard as we can to tame the beast from the inside?

Let’s all keep knocking as Christy has suggessted. Better than being one of the walking dead

Looking for help from lake pups, please.

Been clicking around the house clerk’s site for vote recs of the resolution to defer the 2/3 majority needed to pass the “death becomes democracy for the next 6 months” FISA bill.

I wanna know how my rep voted on that. Was it a recorded vote or by voice?

Anyone got a link to the clerk’s site for it?

Thanks in advance,
Hilde

Already planning to attend the community meeting my rep holds every few months. Debating whether to take along a pocket-sized copy of the Constitution of the United States of America to present to him as a reminder…

It’s a step in the right direction. I think many of the people who’ve been in that congresscritter habitrail for a long time aren’t used to being confronted or challenged. Especially those who have run either unchallenged or with weak opposition that was easy to smack down.

I’m going to go look up my rep’s little schedule/newsletter thing right now…

So, do we have an absolutist elective monarchy yet?

Wow. I forgot about that post Christy links to from the Roots Project wayback machine, but it presents the perfect example and case study of what people could do to assert power and defend the constitution.

Some advice plz. My city rep, where I currently vote, is Carolyn Maloney. My country rep, Maurice Hinchey, is generally a prince of a man. I call him from time to time & have attended fund raisers that he sponsors for others (he seems reasonably secure in his own job) but I figure concentrate my energies where they are more needed.

So here’s what I’m thinking, and being new to the political process, would appreciate feedback.

Maloney’s votes are generally OK, but she seems nebbishy to me. Her website issues revolve around consumer credit, identity theft, and more local matters.

Would it be worthwhile to attend a meeting during August (assuming she’s having one), introduce myself, and advance the idea that since she’s on the right side, could she take a more active role in encouraging other Ds (Blue Dog, or whoever else skates too close to the line) to come over to the right side.

Several years agoI made a New Years resolution to stop getting involved in lost causes (broke it on Jan 3). If Maloney really is a nebbish, I’d be wasting my breath, and I would have no ability to know whether she acts on my urging. She’s in her 8th term, is probably a lock to stay there until death-do-us-part. So she’d have no problem coasting.

Further inspiration: look to the Social Security fight: a combination of truth-squadding with the media, showing up at townhalls en masse, and public shaming via Josh Marshall’s efforts.

heading to o’hare now

I think pelosi leads a junket to greenland this month but I will check with her field office in sf tomorrow

watched some fox !!! last nite andguess what? the dems ruined the TSP by making it only 6 months long!

heads dems lose. tails GOP wins!

Oh just yuck. My Representative has just about every creepy little anti Dem talking point on his web page. Dems are obstructing legislation,Dems are for ethics reform before they were against it,blargh. How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

EPU’ed

The FISA votes show that for Pelosi, Reid, and many Democrats it is still business as usual. Here we have a deeply unpopular as well as the most criminally corrupt and incompetent Administration in our history and at a moment’s notice the Democratic controlled Congress rolled over and played dead for it.

What is going on with the Democratic party? When they were in the minority, they said they couldn’t oppose any of excesses of Bush and the Republicans because they would look weak. This made them look even weaker.

Now that Democrats are in the majority, we are told they can’t oppose Bush because they don’t have veto proof majorities.

But let’s face it even if they had veto proof majorities now their excuse would be that they couldn’t get all their members to vote to override. As it is, they are waiting until January 2009 and a Democratic President before they act.

In other words, the Democrats demand all of the levers of power before they can act.

Yet the Republicans even in the minority have no such problems. So again my question what is it about the Democrats?

The November elections were about getting us out of Iraq. We’re still there. Nothing has been done except to kick a debate about it to next month, nearly 11 months after the 2006 elections. And that’s the debate, not any real action. FISA? The same thing, it will be February 2009 before they take it up the debate again (but not necessarily any action).

The reason that Democrats look so lame is because they are so lame. Pelosi and Reid have to bear a lot of the responsibility for this. Pelosi can boast about how many bills the House has passed, but the reality check is how many of them have become laws. Meanwhile the Bush Administration continues its attacks on the Constitution.

The simple fact of the matter is that we can elect as many Democrats as we want but what’s the point if they refuse to act?

It’s probably a good time to get involved in local “democratic clubs”. These die down when there isn’t an immdediate election and spring back to life when there is. They are usually run by real heros- people who are willing to do the thankless grunt work of keeping the thing alive during off years.

When I’ve attended, I’ve found a real mix of people- some labor- some FDR era dems- and a few younger folks…those who have a knack for organizing can probably do some things to help make these groups a catalyst for change instead of a bitch session.

Christy,
Thank you for your continuing lessons in civics! :-)

To amplify one of your suggestions, the local Democratic party will often host a meeting for their Reps. It is a good idea to implement your suggestion at one of those meetings. For example, when you make your pointed question in one of those meetings, if you do it well, you will get nods and murmurs of agreement from people in the audience who will never write their own letter, or join a single-issue meeting. This conveys the message to the Rep. that this issue is of importance not just to a fringe group of the usual suspects, but to a broader spectrum of voters. We just discussed this strategy here at our monthly Progressive Democrats of America/Hawaii.

Bob in HI

Hey all,

Anyone have any ideas on how to break through the wall of complacency among friends and family?

I’m constantly sending emails with articles and commentary but most of my friends and family are quite complacent regarding politics. I get the impression that most people think I’m exaggerating.

The average person does not seem inclined to believe that the basic foundations of our country and its freedoms are in serious jeopardy.

Hilde with an E @ 5

Looking for help from lake pups, please.

Been clicking around the house clerk’s site for vote recs of the resolution to defer the 2/3 majority needed to pass the “death becomes democracy for the next 6 months” FISA bill.

I wanna know how my rep voted on that. Was it a recorded vote or by voice?

Anyone got a link to the clerk’s site for it?

Thanks in advance,
Hilde

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml

Would it be worthwhile to attend a meeting during August (assuming she’s having one), introduce myself, and advance the idea that since she’s on the right side, could she take a more active role in encouraging other Ds (Blue Dog, or whoever else skates too close to the line) to come over to the right side.

eCAHNomics: how can it hurt? At worst it will have no effect on her. But every action, every conversation is a seed planted. Even if she feels no political pressure to follow your suggestions, she may at least begin to consider it. A step in the right direction.

Crap. I’m rereading this, and thinking, there’s no time! No time for small steps. Things are falling apart too fast. Right action is needed now.

Neo-cons, Pollack and O’Hanlon today say the Surge is a Success!

CNN Reports: 4 million Iraqis without adequate food. 18 million without adequate water. 28% of children are malnourished. There is “de facto ethnic cleansing”. Over 2 million Iraqis are refugees.

Some call it a “Surge”. I call it a neo-con nightmare of genocide.

These are our photos from yesterday.

(Betsy teaching Loo Hoo how to embed a link.)

Kathleen @ 18

Thanks Kathleen. But I have that link to the “Protect America and Kill Democracy Act”.

What I’m looking for, if I’m correctly thinking here, is the vote to allow this bill to pass with a majority only and not a 2/3 vote, as it did in the Senate.

That had to happen right? In order for it to bypass the committee and go right to the floor for consideration?

Thanks in advance,
Hilde

Anyone have any ideas on how to break through the wall of complacency among friends and family?

I’m constantly sending emails with articles and commentary but most of my friends and family are quite complacent regarding politics. I get the impression that most people think I’m exaggerating.

I think this is both a huge problem and an opportunity. There is so much complacency and real political ignorance. However, even many long term staunch rethus voters are feeling disgust at the War and the way the chimp and cheney administration is trashing our nation. I can think of only two or three people (and sadly, they are family members) who still speak up in defense of this president.

As opposed to many, many die hard rethugs who have expressed disappointment, distrust, regret and disgust at chimp’s utter incompetence, and growingly obvious criminality.

We need to find a way to overcome some of the differences we have when we talk to our republican neighbors, family, etc. We need to find the right words and tone to reason with them, to welcome them to the opposition.

carolyn urban @ 19

Would it be worthwhile to attend a meeting during August (assuming she’s having one), introduce myself, and advance the idea that since she’s on the right side, could she take a more active role in encouraging other Ds (Blue Dog, or whoever else skates too close to the line) to come over to the right side.

eCAHNomics: how can it hurt? At worst it will have no effect on her. But every action, every conversation is a seed planted. Even if she feels no political pressure to follow your suggestions, she may at least begin to consider it. A step in the right direction.

Crap. I’m rereading this, and thinking, there’s no time! No time for small steps. Things are falling apart too fast. Right action is needed now.

Thanks. I needed some encouragement.

I agree on the small steps comment too, which is embedded in my “thankless tasks” remark. If the country is going to fall apart, I would better spend time doing something other than submitting myself to the dentist’s drill of a boring meeting with a pol.

OTOH, it wouldn’t take very much time and I’m retired, so why not.

OTOH, . . .

Today is really a tough day.

hilde at 5 says-”ugust 5th, 2007 at 10:36 am

Looking for help from lake pups, please.

Been clicking around the house clerk’s site for vote recs of the resolution to defer the 2/3 majority needed to pass the “death becomes democracy for the next 6 months” FISA bill.

I wanna know how my rep voted on that. Was it a recorded vote or by voice?

Anyone got a link to the clerk’s site for it?

Thanks in advance,
Hilde”

is this what you’re looking for?

http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.html

It occurs to me that since our illustrious elected representatives are going to be in their home districts on a break through the month of August…they won’t have anything better to do than listen to their constitutents. After all, they work for us — and it is high time we remind them of that fact, don’t you think?

ROFLMAO!!!

Uh, Don, Ted and Lisa? – could you spare a few minutes away from your attorneys to be reminded you work for Alaskans? That is, Alaskans of the normal, hardworking, solid values kind.

Loo Hoo. @ 21

These are our photos from yesterday.

(Betsy teaching Loo Hoo how to embed a link.)

Do I detect a Hillary supporter behind those pics, or is it just because she’s the only one wearing colorful clothes? Thx for them.

Tross @ 17

Hey all,

Anyone have any ideas on how to break through the wall of complacency among friends and family?

I’m constantly sending emails with articles and commentary but most of my friends and family are quite complacent regarding politics. I get the impression that most people think I’m exaggerating.

The average person does not seem inclined to believe that the basic foundations of our country and its freedoms are in serious jeopardy.

This is difficult. Best way to lead by example..stay involved, share information, internet sites. I think most folks either feel overwhelmed and I do not like to admit that millions do not care.

The best luck I have had with folks is to ask them to spend 15 minutes a day or 1 hour a week writing a letter to a rep, calling or e-mailing their reps about the issues that they feel passionate about.

Taking a family trip to D.C. to see and lobby their reps is a worthwhile lesson in Democracy.

Encourage them to come to the Impeach Bush march in Washington

http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer

Hilde with an E @ 5

Looking for help from lake pups, please.

Been clicking around the house clerk’s site for vote recs of the resolution to defer the 2/3 majority needed to pass the “death becomes democracy for the next 6 months” FISA bill.

I wanna know how my rep voted on that. Was it a recorded vote or by voice?

Anyone got a link to the clerk’s site for it?

Thanks in advance,
Hilde

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/5/72032/30054

Let me tell you what is about to happen. An irreperable schism between moderates and centrists such as most of the people active in the netroots, and the true left, the real DFH’s, is effective immediately. Like myself, most true lefty’s started voting Dem because the excesses of Boosh and Co. scared the bejeebus out of us. We had hoped to stem the blood dimmed tide. That has not occurred. In fact, it has been enabled at every turn.

There is nothing the netroots can do to rope us back in. The “purists” who are so reviled on these pages and others around the “left” blogosphere will now resolutely refuse to be morally implicated along with the blood soaked, filthy collaborators of the Democratic Party.

The real, bottom line difference between us real lefty’s and you in the blogosphere? We are willing to put our bodies on the line, always have, always will. You will never get anything done sitting at your computers. You say you are “fighting” and not giving up. But none of you have ever gotten out of your corners, much less put on the gloves. You say you are not willing to give up after “one battle”, and those not willing to keep on fighting should just get out of the way. NO! Now you all are going to have to get out of the way and let the real fighters get on with what must be done. This “one battle” is the straw that broke the camels back, and if you cannot see that, you soon will.

Carolyn@23,

Thanks and I agree. Your second point is one that I did not consider, we must also try to appeal to Republican voters. Very true.

But what I find is while many people may have strong opinions against the war and, even, against Bush, most people just don’t understand politics and really don’t know what to do besides voting.

Maybe I’ll offer to buy dinner for any friend that accompanies me to visit my Congressional rep.

thanks, again.

miller @ 30

Let me tell you what is about to happen. An irreperable schism between moderates and centrists such as most of the people active in the netroots, and the true left, the real DFH’s, is effective immediately. Like myself, most true lefty’s started voting Dem because the excesses of Boosh and Co. scared the bejeebus out of us. We had hoped to stem the blood dimmed tide. That has not occurred. In fact, it has been enabled at every turn.

There is nothing the netroots can do to rope us back in. The “purists” who are so reviled on these pages and others around the “left” blogosphere will now resolutely refuse to be morally implicated along with the blood soaked, filthy collaborators of the Democratic Party.

The real, bottom line difference between us real lefty’s and you in the blogosphere? We are willing to put our bodies on the line, always have, always will. You will never get anything done sitting at your computers. You say you are “fighting” and not giving up. But none of you have ever gotten out of your corners, much less put on the gloves. You say you are not willing to give up after “one battle”, and those not willing to keep on fighting should just get out of the way. NO! Now you all are going to have to get out of the way and let the real fighters get on with what must be done. This “one battle” is the straw that broke the camels back, and if you cannot see that, you soon will.

Exactly how are you going to fight? That’s a genuine Q: demostrations?, what?

Hugh @ 14

EPU’ed

The FISA votes show that for Pelosi, Reid, and many Democrats it is still business as usual. Here we have a deeply unpopular as well as the most criminally corrupt and incompetent Administration in our history and at a moment’s notice the Democratic controlled Congress rolled over and played dead for it.

What is going on with the Democratic party? When they were in the minority, they said they couldn’t oppose any of excesses of Bush and the Republicans because they would look weak. This made them look even weaker.

Now that Democrats are in the majority, we are told they can’t oppose Bush because they don’t have veto proof majorities.

But let’s face it even if they had veto proof majorities now their excuse would be that they couldn’t get all their members to vote to override. As it is, they are waiting until January 2009 and a Democratic President before they act.

In other words, the Democrats demand all of the levers of power before they can act.

Yet the Republicans even in the minority have no such problems. So again my question what is it about the Democrats?

The November elections were about getting us out of Iraq. We’re still there. Nothing has been done except to kick a debate about it to next month, nearly 11 months after the 2006 elections. And that’s the debate, not any real action. FISA? The same thing, it will be February 2009 before they take it up the debate again (but not necessarily any action).

The reason that Democrats look so lame is because they are so lame. Pelosi and Reid have to bear a lot of the responsibility for this. Pelosi can boast about how many bills the House has passed, but the reality check is how many of them have become laws. Meanwhile the Bush Administration continues its attacks on the Constitution.

The simple fact of the matter is that we can elect as many Democrats as we want but what’s the point if they refuse to act?

you need to read what Carolyn Urban wrote down below. 192 Democrats voted the right way. Do we abandon them? Howie has already said that all of the Democrats we supported last year voted to can that piece of shit.
Karl would like nothing better than for us to get down on the Democrats. He’s also probably got his agents working the anti-war street movement group that says they’re going to have massive demonstrations at the Democratic Convention next summer. won’t that be nice? will it be like Chicago in ‘68? Karl will see that it will be if at all possible. he’ll spend a lot of money on it for just that reason.

i’m not happy with the votes this week, and God knows what might happen next, but we do have to keep focused on our goals and on the long term as well. we lost a battle this week, no doubt, but we also got our marching orders from Howard Dean, he made a speech for the ages. if you haven’t heard it or read it, stop right now and do so. Democracy will not come cheap and it is not for the easily discouraged. We have to stay at it or we’ll have the S.O.R.S.

Fuck that!

Christy:

Great idea, with a good timeframe and simple objectives.

But I want to revisit my comments from the prior thread: in order to build effectiveness, reach (breadth) and depth, the progressive blogosphere must begin to coalesce around a few overarching objectives, – and probably needs to begin to think about a mission, vision and values statement. What is it that is central for progressives to rally round?

My takeaway was Glenn Greenwald’s statement about the preciousness and value of the Constitution.

At any rate, and FWIW, I outlined the evolution of organizations/cultures as well as a mechanism to begin to move toward building influence and power over the elected so that the governed can fell comfortable with how it’s being governed. (comments 17, 73, and 150)

Won’t repeat it here on this thread, as it may be too dry and academic to be palatable.

anangryoldbroad @ 13

Oh just yuck. My Representative has just about every creepy little anti Dem talking point on his web page. Dems are obstructing legislation,Dems are for ethics reform before they were against it,blargh. How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

I’ll go with you if you’ll go with me to see Sessions and Shelby (the very idea gives me the willies).

O/T -

Barry Bonds home run count now stands at 755 mg.

ecahn-i mentioned/responded in a prior thread that i think dialogue with your rep is a good idea……

anangryoldbroad @ 13

How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

Massive quantities of drugs.

its going to get hectic as the days roll on – i need to strengthen myself for more action…. emails and phone calls aren’t getting it done in this climate i see clearly….

Frank33 @ 20

Neo-cons, Pollack and O’Hanlon today say the Surge is a Success!

CNN Reports: 4 million Iraqis without adequate food. 18 million without adequate water. 28% of children are malnourished. There is “de facto ethnic cleansing”. Over 2 million Iraqis are refugees.

Some call it a “Surge”. I call it a neo-con nightmare of genocide.

Neo, theo, oil, defense cons “nightmare of genocide”

Saw those jokers on Fox this morning. Who in the hell would believe anything that Kristol or Kenneth Pollack say about the middle east?

Kenneth Pollack lied endlessly about Iraq before the invasion. He is allegedly U.S.Go1 in the Rosen Espionage trial. (”allegedly” handed off classified intelligence having to do with Iran to A*P*C officials)

http://www.newsfollowup.com/aipac.htm

Lindy @ 35

anangryoldbroad @ 13

Oh just yuck. My Representative has just about every creepy little anti Dem talking point on his web page. Dems are obstructing legislation,Dems are for ethics reform before they were against it,blargh. How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

I’ll go with you if you’ll go with me to see Sessions and Shelby (the very idea gives me the willies).

I feel your pain. But it might make more difference for you to see you rabid R, than for me to see my nebbish D. Your guys have been in their own bubble so long, and have creeped out those on the other side so much (I can’t bear to watch FAUX, for example), that you should give bubble pricking a try.

dmac @ 37

ecahn-i mentioned/responded in a prior thread that i think dialogue with your rep is a good idea……

Thanks. I kept looking for responses but didn’t see any, which is why I repeated. ‘ppreciate it.

newtonusr @ 38

anangryoldbroad @ 13

How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

Massive quantities of drugs.

Well,I have to drive to his offices,so that wouldn’t be my best option. LOL.

Lindy @ 35

anangryoldbroad @ 13

Oh just yuck. My Representative has just about every creepy little anti Dem talking point on his web page. Dems are obstructing legislation,Dems are for ethics reform before they were against it,blargh. How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

I’ll go with you if you’ll go with me to see Sessions and Shelby (the very idea gives me the willies).

Oh.My. LOL,that is rather creepy. Though I’ll raise you a Saxby Chambliss and a Johnny Issakson. yipes.

This maybe a re-post but..our police state at work

Bush Admin On The Hunt: FBI Raided Fmr DOJ Lawyer’s Home In Search For Wiretapping Leaker

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

miller @ 30

Let me tell you what is about to happen. An irreperable schism between moderates and centrists such as most of the people active in the netroots, and the true left, the real DFH’s, is effective immediately. Like myself, most true lefty’s started voting Dem because the excesses of Boosh and Co. scared the bejeebus out of us. We had hoped to stem the blood dimmed tide. That has not occurred. In fact, it has been enabled at every turn.

There is nothing the netroots can do to rope us back in. The “purists” who are so reviled on these pages and others around the “left” blogosphere will now resolutely refuse to be morally implicated along with the blood soaked, filthy collaborators of the Democratic Party.

The real, bottom line difference between us real lefty’s and you in the blogosphere? We are willing to put our bodies on the line, always have, always will. You will never get anything done sitting at your computers. You say you are “fighting” and not giving up. But none of you have ever gotten out of your corners, much less put on the gloves. You say you are not willing to give up after “one battle”, and those not willing to keep on fighting should just get out of the way. NO! Now you all are going to have to get out of the way and let the real fighters get on with what must be done. This “one battle” is the straw that broke the camels back, and if you cannot see that, you soon will.

buzz off, gomer. you don’t know what we’ve done, and for all we know you might be on Karl’s payroll. don’t jump in the Lake and start pointing your finger at us. most people here don’t cotton to it.

[Mod Note; let’s dial it down a notch, please.]

FROM THE “STILL CANT’ FIND OSAMA” FILE…
_____

Looking For a Leaker

Aug. 13, 2007 issue – The controversy over President Bush’s warrantless surveillance program took another surprise turn last week when a team of FBI agents, armed with a classified search warrant, raided the suburban Washington home of a former Justice Department lawyer. The lawyer, Thomas M. Tamm, previously worked in Justice’s Office of Intelligence Policy and Review (OIPR)—the supersecret unit that oversees surveillance of terrorist and espionage targets. The agents seized Tamm’s desktop computer, two of his children’s laptops and a cache of personal files. Tamm and his lawyer, Paul Kemp, declined any comment. So did the FBI. But two legal sources who asked not to be identified talking about an ongoing case told NEWSWEEK the raid was related to a Justice criminal probe into who leaked details of the warrantless eavesdropping program to the news media…

…A veteran federal prosecutor who left DOJ last year, Tamm worked at OIPR during a critical period in 2004 when senior Justice officials first strongly objected to the surveillance program. Those protests led to a crisis that March when, according to recent Senate testimony, then A.G. John Ashcroft, FBI Director Robert Mueller and others threatened to resign, prompting Bush to scale the program back. Tamm, said one of the legal sources, had shared concerns about he program’s legality, but it was unclear whether he actively participated in the internal DOJ protest.

The FBI raid on Tamm’s home comes when Gonzales himself is facing criticism for allegedly misleading Congress by denying there had been “serious disagreement” within Justice about the surveillance program. The A.G. last week apologized for “creating confusion,” but Senate Judiciary Committee chair Sen. Patrick Leahy said he is weighing asking Justice’s inspector general to review Gonzales’s testimony.

The raid also came while the White House and Congress were battling over expanding NSA wiretapping authority in order to plug purported “surveillance gaps.” James X. Dempsey of the Center for Democracy and Technology said the raid was “amazing” and shows the administration’s misplaced priorities: using FBI agents to track down leakers instead of processing intel warrants to close the gaps. A Justice spokesman declined to comment.

- Michael Isikoff, at MSNBC/Newsweek

dmac @ 25:
Thanks. Read through that but my pea brain can’t find where the rules were either suspended or were altered to allow for simple majority.

Linday @35:
Thanks. Have that one already. Am looking for the vote to suspend the rules.

Will keep hunting and thanks for your answers.

My concern is this: that the bill reached the floor proves to me that the fix was in.

My rep voted “no” as expected. But I want to know how he stood on changing the rules. That tells me if he’s “in on the fix” and with that knowledge I can offer more-better questions when I attend his next local meet up.

Thanks!

eCAHNomics @ 27

Loo Hoo. @ 21

These are our photos from yesterday.

(Betsy teaching Loo Hoo how to embed a link.)

Do I detect a Hillary supporter behind those pics, or is it just because she’s the only one wearing colorful clothes? Thx for them.

Look at the general picture that spans the entire group of presidential candidates: Men in gray suits, against a black background, and there’s Hillary in a bright turquoise jacket. The problem is not with the person taking the picture, but with the dunder-headed media advisors of the men in the panel to allow a black background. Or maybe just a h/t to Hillary’s media advisor for seizing on an opportunity?

Bob in HI

OK. Let me try a little perspective here without being a pollyanna.

The facts are on our side. The public knows that. That’s why W’s & Congress’s ratings are in the tanks. Facts that show that U.S. foreign policy is perverted are only going to accumulate. Waxman, Leahy, et al investigations are going to reveal more & more rottenness.

Unless you think it is too late, now is not the time to give up. Let’s remember how far the U.S. public has already moved since the 04 election.

Ed*ard Teller @ 26

It occurs to me that since our illustrious elected representatives are going to be in their home districts on a break through the month of August…they won’t have anything better to do than listen to their constitutents. After all, they work for us — and it is high time we remind them of that fact, don’t you think?

ROFLMAO!!!

Uh, Don, Ted and Lisa? – could you spare a few minutes away from your attorneys to be reminded you work for Alaskans? That is, Alaskans of the normal, hardworking, solid values kind.

Might as well use a rubber mallet to demolish a concrete wall as try to tweak the conscience of those three.

Still, I like the idea. I think it would work especially well if different people show up at these events. I’d like to do this, and I’m sure others would as well. I’m not much of a protestor, and I really hate crowds, but I’m P.O.’d enough to try.

And frankly, I can’t think of any better way of making our feelings known. Sometimes the old hairless chimp approach of being in their face is what works best.

anangryoldbroad @ 13

Oh just yuck. My Representative has just about every creepy little anti Dem talking point on his web page. Dems are obstructing legislation,Dems are for ethics reform before they were against it,blargh. How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

I feel for you. I’ve watched this guy speaking on the floor of the house after hours. He and his so-called truth squad, spreading lies.

Hilde with an E –

I think it was a simple change in rules that allowed the vote bill to pass by simple majority.. no vote needed on the point.

I could be wrong but selise and pow wow covered it at the following comments.

for all we know you might be on Karl’s payroll.

You wish. That would allow you to believe what I write is all just dirty politics. So be it, believe what you will, then sit back and watch.

fahrender @ 45

miller @ 30

Let me tell you what is about to happen. An irreperable schism between moderates and centrists such as most of the people active in the netroots, and the true left, the real DFH’s, is effective immediately. Like myself, most true lefty’s started voting Dem because the excesses of Boosh and Co. scared the bejeebus out of us. We had hoped to stem the blood dimmed tide. That has not occurred. In fact, it has been enabled at every turn.

There is nothing the netroots can do to rope us back in. The “purists” who are so reviled on these pages and others around the “left” blogosphere will now resolutely refuse to be morally implicated along with the blood soaked, filthy collaborators of the Democratic Party.

The real, bottom line difference between us real lefty’s and you in the blogosphere? We are willing to put our bodies on the line, always have, always will. You will never get anything done sitting at your computers. You say you are “fighting” and not giving up. But none of you have ever gotten out of your corners, much less put on the gloves. You say you are not willing to give up after “one battle”, and those not willing to keep on fighting should just get out of the way. NO! Now you all are going to have to get out of the way and let the real fighters get on with what must be done. This “one battle” is the straw that broke the camels back, and if you cannot see that, you soon will.

buzz off, gomer. you don’t know what we’ve done, and for all we know you might be on Karl’s payroll. don’t jump in the Lake and start pointing your finger at us. most people here don’t cotton to it.

[Mod Note; let’s dial it down a notch, please.]

Aw come on, let me at da bum!

Bob Schacht @ 48

eCAHNomics @ 27

Do I detect a Hillary supporter behind those pics, or is it just because she’s the only one wearing colorful clothes? Thx for them.

Look at the general picture that spans the entire group of presidential candidates: Men in gray suits, against a black background, and there’s Hillary in a bright turquoise jacket. The problem is not with the person taking the picture, but with the dunder-headed media advisors of the men in the panel to allow a black background. Or maybe just a h/t to Hillary’s media advisor for seizing on an opportunity?

Bob in HI

visually, she did stand out. the word around the country though is that John Edwards took home the best overall impression. he actually blew out the tubes over at Daily Kos ……

This shows conclusively the power of the polls. Most americans aren’t upset about the spyin thing and a fair amount of heat wasn’t able to get em upset- they’re more afraid of terrorists than gettin spied on….most of em who are dickin their pet rabbit figure that the govt. already knows about it…

I mean- most of em aren’t gonna make or receive a call to the middle east so “what me worry”.

The war- on the other hand- is goin the other way in the polls- but we should be aware that a majority do NOT yet support immediate and orderly withdrawal or cutting off funding.

Only 37 % support an orderly and immediate withdrawal

60% say that they would be LESS likely to vote for a presidential candidate who supports cutting off war funds…

Still a long way to go.

Steve-AR @ 43

This maybe a re-post but..our police state at work

Bush Admin On The Hunt: FBI Raided Fmr DOJ Lawyer’s Home In Search For Wiretapping Leaker

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

Steve-AR @ 44
I mentioned on an earlier thread that I hoped, if he were the guy, he long ago got rid of any evidence.

I’ve had another thought. What would make you think they’re any more competent at pursuing leakers than they are at finding terrorists? Is this guy another Hatfill, who had nothing to do with it?

In any event, the rest of his life is going to be a nightmare. We need to follow this closely.

yellowdogD @ 51

anangryoldbroad @ 13

Oh just yuck. My Representative has just about every creepy little anti Dem talking point on his web page. Dems are obstructing legislation,Dems are for ethics reform before they were against it,blargh. How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

I feel for you. I’ve watched this guy speaking on the floor of the house after hours. He and his so-called truth squad, spreading lies.

One of those rules of life I go by – the more presumptuous the title of an organization or blog, the more likely it is that you’re looking at someone who isn’t playing with a full deck. “Bringer of Truth”, “Voice of Reason”, etc. are names to be avoided while searching for truth and reason in much the same way as “Tiny” and “Slick” are folks to be avoided in fights or p*k*r games.

~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~

Steve-AR @ 44

This maybe a re-post but..our police state at work

Bush Admin On The Hunt: FBI Raided Fmr DOJ Lawyer’s Home In Search For Wiretapping Leaker

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

Really worth the read!

eCAHNomics @ 57

Steve-AR @ 43

This maybe a re-post but..our police state at work

Bush Admin On The Hunt: FBI Raided Fmr DOJ Lawyer’s Home In Search For Wiretapping Leaker

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

Steve-AR @ 44

This maybe a re-post but..our police state at work

Bush Admin On The Hunt: FBI Raided Fmr DOJ Lawyer’s Home In Search For Wiretapping Leaker

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

I mentioned on an earlier thread that I hoped, if he were the guy, he long ago got rid of any evidence.

I’ve had another thought. What would make you think they’re any more competent at pursuing leakers than they are at finding terrorists? Is this guy another Hatfill, who had nothing to do with it?

In any event, the rest of his life is going to be a nightmare. We need to follow this closely.

It was suggested by a commenter over at Kos that he be given immunity by Congress and called in to testify…which could protect him from prosecution or something to that effect.

Hilde with an E @ 47

My concern is this: that the bill reached the floor proves to me that the fix was in.

My rep voted “no” as expected. But I want to know how he stood on changing the rules. That tells me if he’s “in on the fix” and with that knowledge I can offer more-better questions when I attend his next local meet up.

Thanks!

i don’t know the details of how the rules came down – other than that pelosi has control via the rules committee. i am going to try to see what i can find out on monday. this is “on the job” training for me too. i’m just trying to figure it all out as we go along (and am grateful for fact checking / corrections).

is your rep on the rules committee?

eCAHNomics @ 49

OK. Let me try a little perspective here without being a pollyanna.

The facts are on our side. The public knows that. That’s why W’s & Congress’s ratings are in the tanks. Facts that show that U.S. foreign policy is perverted are only going to accumulate. Waxman, Leahy, et al investigations are going to reveal more & more rottenness.

Unless you think it is too late, now is not the time to give up. Let’s remember how far the U.S. public has already moved since the 04 election.

“Facts” are so passe (pre-Post-Modern), particularly since the 4th estate is now in the business of pushing lies as truth. Politics is not won by facts but by feelings, and the Rethugs have been great at evoking that-i.e. hate Edwards for his haircuts, Hillry for her legs, Obama for his name. Though we are the party of the “people” we have largely been inarticulate in conveying that. And the best one at doing this – Gov Dean-was stopped by his own party, with the help of the media and rethugs. Just as with Kerry, they would love nothing better than to run against Hillary.

fahrender @ 54

Bob Schacht @ 48

Look at the general picture that spans the entire group of presidential candidates: Men in gray suits, against a black background, and there’s Hillary in a bright turquoise jacket. The problem is not with the person taking the picture, but with the dunder-headed media advisors of the men in the panel to allow a black background. Or maybe just a h/t to Hillary’s media advisor for seizing on an opportunity?

Bob in HI

visually, she did stand out. the word around the country though is that John Edwards took home the best overall impression. he actually blew out the tubes over at Daily Kos ……

Yes, I agree with that assessment. I saw the panel “live”, and thought that the Edwards-Obama tag team whupped Hillary on the lobbyists money issue. Edwards also gave a very good response on what he would do to deal with the “Unitary Executive” excesses.

Bob in HI

Home for a quick swim and then back to 2nd. shift and cooking and washing dishes in our little town for the oldsters. Looking over the posts and comments while we’ve been out, leads me to believe it has been lively. Sorry we missed out.

selise @ 60

Hilde with an E @ 47

My concern is this: that the bill reached the floor proves to me that the fix was in.

My rep voted “no” as expected. But I want to know how he stood on changing the rules. That tells me if he’s “in on the fix” and with that knowledge I can offer more-better questions when I attend his next local meet up.

Thanks!

i don’t know the details of how the rules came down – other than that pelosi has control via the rules committee. i am going to try to see what i can find out on monday. this is “on the job” training for me too. i’m just trying to figure it all out as we go along (and am grateful for fact checking / corrections).

is your rep on the rules committee?

Maybe something went down when she went to have a one on one meeting with W, and then dinner with her husband and W and Laura the other evening.

Politics is hard- real change takes decades- and while it’s relatively easy to get involvement when there’s a war going on- eventually we return to “normalcy” when most people would rather play canasta than have a political discussion. Only those willing to bang at it hard for a lifetime have a chance at making a lasting difference.

I know that we all write our reps and e-mail and phone and they get who knows how many e-mails every day. What if they got 500 to 1000 from us in one day. Wouldn’t that have a huge impact? Perhaps Christy or Jane or whoever could post a letter every Monday morning and we could all send it to the SAME critter on that day – in alphabetical order. They would see that we are organized and maybe start to listen to us. It couldn’t hurt. We could keep this up forever – What do you think?

rwcole,

Oh.. I just found your response to my post from the last thread. Thanks. I agree.. I think a lot of these terms are just used by people to attack anybody within the party they don’t like, on whatever the issue du jour is.. to the point that they actually mean very little. We don’t like the DLC because of things that a few of their leaders are doing.. irrespective of the fact that some of the better and more progressive dems are actually card-carrying members (but not in the leadership). Davis, a DLCer, has a voting record that’s basically identical to Waters or Lee, but, for whatever inconceivable reason, gets branded a “conservative” by progressive groups in the Bay Area. Meanwhile, some other non DLC CA dems who shall remain nameless get away with voting like rethugs half the time, and are still considered “progressives”… but nobody wants to deal with discrepancies like that, much less the statistical reality that there is empirically no difference in DLC versus non-DLC Dem voting habits in the House.

I was absolutely shocked and dismayed to see yesterday somebody post something speculating on an imminent split, with DLCers leaving the party to join the rethugs, leaving the Dems to the progressives. This is nonsense. If the DLCers left, we’d still be left with some of the worst conservative Dems.

The strategy has to be that we target individuals who consistently side with rethugs, instead of basing our moral judgments on largely fictitious “fissure-lines” within our own party. And we progressives have to stop fabricating facts to suit our vision of what our party SHOULD look like, and then be disappointed when people we thought were friends end up betraying us, when their votes don’t fit our own delusions about where those fissure lines really lie. Reality is much more complicated than a simplistic vision of “good Dems” versus “bad Dems” = “progressives” versus “blue dogs”. In CA, these divisions seem to be almost meaningless.

Dear Senator and Congressmen,

Thank you for your NO vote on the FISA bill.

I see no reason we can’t have security against terrorist attacks on US soil and full un-compromised fourth amendment rights. We are an ingenious people when given the opportunity.

Apparently, the FISA court made a secret ruling that prompted this urgent action.

How is it that we now live in a country that secret courts make secret rulings that require lawmakers to pass urgent laws without full vetting and due consideration, which compromise the fourth amendment rights of Americans?

This is bad government, injurious to the civil rights of Americans, and harmful to the precedent of our some of our most important standards; ‘probable cause’ and ‘beyond a reasonable doubt.’

Bush’s manipulation of the senate and house is little short of repulsive, that he tried and that he succeeded. He said that if there were a terrorist strike in August, it would be the democrats’ fault. No one challenged him on this outrageous claim. The President acts as if this is HIS war on terror not OUR war on terror. I don’t trust him one bit.

Bush’s surveillance programs are kept classified and withheld from scrutiny by either of the other two co-equal branches of government. That is a problem ripe for extreme abuse. Pass a law that gives the judiciary committee the right to be read into every single secret government program.

miller at 30 says-in part-”Like myself, most true lefty’s started voting Dem because the excesses of Boosh and Co. scared the bejeebus out of us.”

’started voting Dem’? huh?

you’re not making sense, and your other post didn’t match up either……

Richmond @ 60
I’m a facts kinda gal. Don’t do emotions, not very good at framing. Call me a pre-modern troglodyte, but I still think facts matter, and that we have plenty of evidence that they do. Combining facts with emotions appeal & better framing would be good, but I’m not the one who can do it.

When I was a kid,I was really fortunate to have my paternal Grandma in my life. She was really down to earth and had loads of common sense. Her big thing was yes,you can be an ass if you wish,BUT you have to go be an ass all by yourself. You don’t get to hurt others or ruin other people’s day because you’re choosing to be a jerk. Then,when you get over yourself,you can come back and be part of things again.

I really think what we need are some take no crap Grandmothers to sit some of these punks down. Women who know how to deal with manipulative and lying children.

Just curious, who’s our hard working moderator this thread?

eCAHNomics @ 48

OK. Let me try a little perspective here without being a pollyanna.

The facts are on our side. The public knows that. That’s why W’s & Congress’s ratings are in the tanks. Facts that show that U.S. foreign policy is perverted are only going to accumulate. Waxman, Leahy, et al investigations are going to reveal more & more rottenness.

Unless you think it is too late, now is not the time to give up. Let’s remember how far the U.S. public has already moved since the 04 election.

You are being a pollyanna if you think the public knows the facts are on our side. In the 06 election, all they knew was that Repugs were corrupt and Foley chased pages. The average person doesn’t know what habeas corpus or FISA are, much less that we’re right. What is needed is a vast information campaign, and the MSM isn’t going to do that.
I read yesterday that most R voters don’t even know that Guilliani (sp?) is pro-choice. Ignorance is a formidable foe.

Hilde with an E @ 22

Kathleen @ 18

Thanks Kathleen. But I have that link to the “Protect America and Kill Democracy Act”.

What I’m looking for, if I’m correctly thinking here, is the vote to allow this bill to pass with a majority only and not a 2/3 vote, as it did in the Senate.

That had to happen right? In order for it to bypass the committee and go right to the floor for consideration?

Thanks in advance,
Hilde

You can find them all here.

The Iranian Option
http://www.counterpunch.org/nasser08042007.html

“True it is still premature to conclude that the prerogatives for a U.S. – Iranian regional understanding is about to emerge, or that the Arab feeling of insecurity would seriously jeopardize the friendships or alliances Washington has forged with the majority of the Arab regimes over decades of a love and hate relations, but the burgeoning U.S. – Iranian dialogue over Iraq and the convergence of bilateral interests as well as their complementary roles there during the last four years are flashing red lights, especially in neighbouring Arab capitals.”

Constituents of Amy Klobuchar should know that she loves to eat at Brasa on East Hennepin. If you see her there, be nice but firm.

OT: Take a look at Drudge’s “Who won the Republican’s Iowa debate?” poll. Ron Paul has more than twice as many votes as anyone else!

Blub

The idea of “purging” dems who are too conservative is pretty lame in my opinion. In many seats- the kind of dem we have is the only kind of dem we could possibly have and the alternative is a gooper..

That being said- it makes sense to go after a few targeted dems in seats that can be won by a more progressive candidate. That’s what many thought they were doing in the Lieberman case.

I DO agree, though, that a bit of muscle thoughtfully applied can wake some dems up to the possibility of primary battle if they go too “safe” in their voting pattern.

Frank Probst @ 78

OT: Take a look at Drudge’s “Who won the Republican’s Iowa debate?” poll. Ron Paul has more than twice as many votes as anyone else!

A-yep. This TPM piece on the Iowa debate is telling as well.

miller @ 30

Let me tell you what is about to happen.

Ok Carnack. Interesting theory except one thing, you’re too are sitting at your keyboard. Whoops.

Richmond @ 62

eCAHNomics @ 49“Facts” are so passe (pre-Post-Modern), particularly since the 4th estate is now in the business of pushing lies as truth.

Good line. Equivalently, “facts are so pre-9/11.”

Just like “probable cause.” We now instead have Cheney’s “one percent” standard. If there’s as much as a “1%” chance (as evaluated by him) of something “bad” happening (as defined by him), the Bu’ush adminstration must act.

In secret, without oversight. The Bu’ush Party is simply the Ba’ath Party without the beards.

Phoenix Woman @ 75

Constituents of Amy Klobuchar should know that she loves to eat at Brasa on East Hennepin. If you see her there, be nice but firm.

I’m not a constituent, but left her avoice mail after her vote, saying I support netroots, how disappointed we were, and how next time we’d find a better candidate.

Throw me down the keys!

Can’t You Hear Me Knockin’? – Rolling Stones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBS1VsbGkw0

fahrender @ 33

you need to read what Carolyn Urban wrote down below. 192 Democrats voted the right way. Do we abandon them? Howie has already said that all of the Democrats we supported last year voted to can that piece of shit.
Karl would like nothing better than for us to get down on the Democrats. He’s also probably got his agents working the anti-war street movement group that says they’re going to have massive demonstrations at the Democratic Convention next summer. won’t that be nice? will it be like Chicago in ‘68? Karl will see that it will be if at all possible. he’ll spend a lot of money on it for just that reason.

i’m not happy with the votes this week, and God knows what might happen next, but we do have to keep focused on our goals and on the long term as well. we lost a battle this week, no doubt, but we also got our marching orders from Howard Dean, he made a speech for the ages. if you haven’t heard it or read it, stop right now and do so. Democracy will not come cheap and it is not for the easily discouraged. We have to stay at it or we’ll have the S.O.R.S.

Fuck that!

I responded in the last thread and will repeat here with an addition.

Yes, but as selise and pow wow have pointed out, the House vote was rigged. Pelosi structured the vote on the “Democratic” alternative so that it would not pass without a 2/3 majority. She then put up the Senate/Republican version knowing that enough Democrats would defect and vote with the Republicans to ensure its passage with a simple majority. This turned it into a meaningless “free” vote.

All this is similar to the Democrats in the Senate who voted for cloture on the Alito nomination but then voted “no” on the confirmation vote. It was the first vote that mattered. The second was just for show.

It is the result I am interested in. I could care less how 192 Democrats voted on a done deal. The reality is that Pelosi could have delayed a vote until September if she had wanted to or pushed the Democratic version and held the Republican one. She and the Democrats didn’t and decided instead to give away the store. I am not impressed.

I would also point out that of while 41 Democrats voted with the Republicans, only 2 Republicans voted with the Democrats. So I think the “only 41 Democrats voted with the Republicans” argument loses a lot of its force. The Republicans were much better able to maintain party discipline than the Democrats.

’started voting Dem’? huh?

you’re not making sense, and your other post didn’t match up either……

As in, we had been, before Bush,voting Soc*al*st or Green, as in voting for what REAL LEFTY’s believe in and not throwing our votes into the sinkhole of the Dem party. How is that hard to understand? The Dem party has NEVER been the bastion of the far left in this country. If you think it has, I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you.

~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~

Frank Probst @ 78

OT: Take a look at Drudge’s “Who won the Republican’s Iowa debate?” poll. Ron Paul has more than twice as many votes as anyone else!

I only have one thing to say about Paul.. It would be a very good thing if he divides the vote in the rethug primary, ensuring that an unelectable person (Romney? Thompson?) actually gets the nomination. But if he does, by some miracle, wind up being the rethug candidate, I don’t want to see a single Dem switching sides to support him. As Dems, we shouldn’t be deluded into thinking that ANY rethug can be trusted with national office, ever again

Blub

To some extent I’m a pro business democrat. I have worked in executive positions for two corporations. I believe in a climate that encourages commerce and business activity- it’s good for the economy and can lift all boats. I also believe in the need for strong govt. regulation of business- we are quite capable of great excesses without someone lookin over our shoulders.

So maybe I’m DLC- I don’t know. I also hate Clusterfuck and his war. If I get “purged” I guess I’ll have to figure out where to go.

Well, then, color me pollyanna.

Congressional Open House
Tuesday, August 7, 2007
5 p.m. to 7 p.m.
Office of Rep. Loretta Sanchez
12397 Lewis Street, Suite 101
Garden Grove, CA 92840

Kristol, Pollack and O’hanlon tell the world things are getting better in Iraq, while 50,ooo Iraqi people are leaving Iraq a month.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.c…..raq05.html

Iraq’s national power grid nearing collapse
By Ryan Lenz

The Associated Press
Karzai pressed to combat Taliban
BAGHDAD — Iraq’s power grid is on the brink of collapse because of insurgent sabotage, rising demand, fuel shortages and provinces that are unplugging local power stations from the national grid, officials said Saturday

rwcole @ 79

Blub

The idea of “purging” dems who are too conservative is pretty lame in my opinion. In many seats- the kind of dem we have is the only kind of dem we could possibly have and the alternative is a gooper..

Oh, I agree. I didn’t mean to say that all conservative dems should be targeted.. My comments were restricted to the CA context, with particular respect to the progressive DLCers within the delegation, but, more generally, I agree with you, we have to be strategic in our thinking. A dem, even a conservative Dem, is always better than even the least conservative rethug.. if there is no other alternative.

Going through junk mail on a Sunday afternoon … here’s Trilegiant (gaak! what a name!) offering to charge me $150 a year to tell me whether my personal habits make me a likely target of identity theft.

Excuse me? First, the concept of being a likely target doesn’t match any receptor in my brain. But, second, what does this say about the intensity of surveillance to which we have allowed ourselves to be subjected already and also about the comprehensiveness of the databases which track our moves and habits?

And here’s a thought … I certainly do not have $150 to throw at this, but what do you want to bet that somebody could run the offer backwards: pay for a list of most vulnerable people? There might be a better return on that investment than on your average IRA. Entrepreneurs wanted. Who’s watching this particular chicken coop? Any of our friendly local Dems?

Electricity Ministry spokesman Aziz al-Shimari said power generation nationally is only meeting half the demand, and there had been four nationwide blackouts over the past two days.

Blub @ 86

Frank Probst @ 78

OT: Take a look at Drudge’s “Who won the Republican’s Iowa debate?” poll. Ron Paul has more than twice as many votes as anyone else!

I only have one thing to say about Paul.. It would be a very good thing if he divides the vote in the rethug primary, ensuring that an unelectable person (Romney? Thompson?) actually gets the nomination. But if he does, by some miracle, wind up being the rethug candidate, I don’t want to see a single Dem switching sides to support him. As Dems, we shouldn’t be deluded into thinking that ANY rethug can be trusted with national office, ever again

Let’s simplify. Suppose the election were between Romney, Hillary, and Ron Paul, as an independent. Who would Paul take the most votes from? Right now, it is hard to say, but when his platform of no federal spending for social security, parks, roads, etc., becomes more well known, probably he will hurt the Republicans more than the dems.

Hilde with an E @ 47

dmac @ 25:
Thanks. Read through that but my pea brain can’t find where the rules were either suspended or were altered to allow for simple majority.

Linday @35:
Thanks. Have that one already. Am looking for the vote to suspend the rules.

Will keep hunting and thanks for your answers.

My concern is this: that the bill reached the floor proves to me that the fix was in.

My rep voted “no” as expected. But I want to know how he stood on changing the rules. That tells me if he’s “in on the fix” and with that knowledge I can offer more-better questions when I attend his next local meet up.

Thanks!

The vote was to “suspend and pass”. They could also have done “suspend and vote”, but they didn’t.

Ok Carnack. Interesting theory except one thing, you’re too are sitting at your keyboard. Whoops.

And where did I say one should never sit at a keyboard?

Cujo359 @ 50

Ed*ard Teller @ 26

It occurs to me that since our illustrious elected representatives are going to be in their home districts on a break through the month of August…they won’t have anything better to do than listen to their constitutents. After all, they work for us — and it is high time we remind them of that fact, don’t you think?

ROFLMAO!!!

Uh, Don, Ted and Lisa? – could you spare a few minutes away from your attorneys to be reminded you work for Alaskans? That is, Alaskans of the normal, hardworking, solid values kind.

Might as well use a rubber mallet to demolish a concrete wall as try to tweak the conscience of those three.

Still, I like the idea. I think it would work especially well if different people show up at these events. I’d like to do this, and I’m sure others would as well. I’m not much of a protestor, and I really hate crowds, but I’m P.O.’d enough to try.

And frankly, I can’t think of any better way of making our feelings known. Sometimes the old hairless chimp approach of being in their face is what works best.

Doin Young is going to spend his break hiding from reporters and hiding from his constituents. Two items. Here’s the headlines from the contributors’ newsletter he sent me (I sent him $10.00 to get on it):

Office of Congressman Don Young
Week of August 5, 2007

Inside this edition:
Congressman Young Votes Against Free Health Care For Illegal Immigrants
Congressman Young Endorses Changes To Veterans’ Health Care Services

and, OTOH, this:

DIANE BENSON
RECEIVES
STANDING OVATION

AT
THE BARTLETT CLUB

Diane Benson addressed the weekly gathering of the Bartlett Democratic Club at the Debarr Denneys on Thursday, August 2nd. Diane’s topic was “Corruption, Election and Politics”. The packed full house was very overwhelmingly receptive to Diane’s impassioned remarks on empowering Democrats and her views on subjects ranging from the most recent Minneapolis bridge collapse, the health care crisis and social security to veterans and military concerns.

Diane’s next public speaking engagement will be at the Mat-Su Democrats Dinner at the Grand View Hotel on August 17th at 6:00 PM. For more information call Gil at (907) 354-0473.

From previous thread:

“I am getting a group of firepups together to meet with Nancy Make Nice or her staff. I want to go armed with facts, passion and common sense. Going to her office in SF is my goal. I need help and people. Also, someone who lives in her district is important. It is easier to get into a representative’s office with a constituent. Anyone who is interested please go to my facebook page.”

This is a realistic goal. I have actually meet with Danny Boy Lungren’s staff. It will be harder to see Nancy for the obvious reasons. It is not that difficult to see a staff person. She may not agree with us but the info can be delivered. The more meetings from different progressive groups that can be arranged the better. Or we can take a more energetic approach and picket her offices. Peacefully of course. Or both. I believe the key is to deliver a cogent message with a strong and adult demeanor.

rwcole @ 87

So maybe I’m DLC- I don’t know. I also hate Clusterfuck and his war. If I get “purged” I guess I’ll have to figure out where to go.

my point is that the DLC/non-DLC distinction is meaningless in CA, because we have so many people with hybrid positions. For the record, I’m also pro-business on many issues, especially trade policy, and I actually don’t agree with some of Davis’ anti-trade/pro-union positions…. which, if you follow the meme among some progressive groups, means that I’m MORE of a Blue Dog then the Blue Dog leadership (on this one issue). And yet, I’m still a progressive.. again, these lables aren’t worth a whole heck of a lot in any California reality I’m aware of.

eeeeeeeewwwwwww!

Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, U.S. House of Representatives
101 Main Street, Suite 380
Huntington Beach, CA 92648
Phone: (714) 960-6483

Where’s Osama, Dana?

BigMitch @ 94

Let’s simplify. Suppose the election were between Romney, Hillary, and Ron Paul, as an independent

…in that case, I’d be happy if everybody here voted for Hillary. I just don’t want to see my fellow Dems get fooled by Ron Paulish ‘thugs just because they act Demish on the war.

miller @ 97

Ok Carnack. Interesting theory except one thing, you’re too are sitting at your keyboard. Whoops.

And where did I say one should never sit at a keyboard?

Let me tell you what’s going to happen…

petwrecker @ 101

Dana?

out of curiousity, why are we posting Dana White Sheet’s contact info here? :) That’s the real axis of evil: Tom, Dana and Duncan.

Kathleen @ 91

Electricity Ministry spokesman Aziz al-Shimari said power generation nationally is only meeting half the demand, and there had been four nationwide blackouts over the past two days.

Sounds like a close to complete collapse is coming soon. I don’t know anything except first principles, which is that the system is very creaky, and keeps getting attacked.

rwcole @ 65

Politics is hard- real change takes decades- and while it’s relatively easy to get involvement when there’s a war going on- eventually we return to “normalcy” when most people would rather play canasta than have a political discussion. Only those willing to bang at it hard for a lifetime have a chance at making a lasting difference.

The hard thing this time around, is that we have lost the bulk of the Middle Class to near poverty. Those holding down 2-3 part-time jobs or 1 underpaying job to try to pay the rent, for the most part don’t have the time, energy, or ability to take up the fight-even if it is in their best interest. Unions who used to fight hard are pretty much dead (thanks to Reagan and Bush). And, sadly, the whole Iraq Middle East issue, has turned a sizable group of the one-time Intellectual fighting avant-guard into AIP*C ditto heads. I don’t mean to be down, but well, I’m down. Doesn’t mean I am not going to fight (I will) but it means we have to be strategic. As I wrote earlier, I am happy how it went down with Home Depot and O’Reilly. We need more of that because this is a virtually impossible fight if the 4th Estate is against us, as even NPR for example is now most of the time.

Blub @ 104

petwrecker @ 101

Dana?

out of curiousity, why are we posting Dana White Sheet’s contact info here? :)

my district :~(

Nellie says:

Let me tell you what’s going to happen…

I’m waiting. Genuinely interested.

Blub–Yeah I understood that you were attacking the labels I was going a step further I guess.

I don’t think that corporations are inherrently evil- I am not a marxist- I don’t think that “profit” is a dirty word- I admire people who build a business and show good leadership and social awareness.

It seems to me that a political movement that desires to alienate and purge people who take these positions is doomed to be a sideshow- and entertainment for a small minority.

petwrecker @ 107

my district :~(

I’m sorry ;(. I still think we should sell CA-50 to the OC, but rwcole wouldn’t let me.

I do think that the Dems CAN take back CA-50, but we need a better candidate there than we had last time around. Who could we run there?

Kenneth Pollack, Bill Kristol and O’hanlon have their heads up where the sun does not shine. They were repeating more of their “noble lies” this morning on Fox. I just wish they would go spend some time with the 50,ooo Iraqi people leaving every month and tell us things are getting better.

Facts just do not matter to these “cakewalk in Iraq” liars.

Humanitarian crisis in Iraq
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6921623.stm

The BBC monitors surge
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6928586.stm

Blub

Of the fascist southern cal districts- 50 may actually be the MOST possible to crack- but we need a better candidate than Busby.

Mothers Acting Up (mothers and others, on stilts or off, who exercise protective care over someone smaller) has been suggesting visits for some time. Their website is not quite smooth, but they have the right idea.
Find Your Inner Grizzly
Visiting the Government
In Peace

rwcole @ 111

Blub

Of the fascist southern cal districts- 50 may actually be the MOST possible to crack- but we need a better candidate than Busby.

Anyone in the pipeline with balls enough?

rwcole @ 112

Blub

Of the fascist southern cal districts- 50 may actually be the MOST possible to crack- but we need a better candidate than Busby.

…and we can always recruit volunteers from the two urban Dem districts to the south. You should run… I’ll volunteer for your campaign :) Interestingly, 92067 and 92014 are massive Dem donation zips, both within CA-50. And Encinitas/Leucadia strike me as places with strong progressive communities.. I think you’re right, but we need to do something about it.

I wonder if this is what the “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots meant when they said they wanted to win the “hearts and minds” of the Iraqi people.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/tal…..453857.stm

The neo,theo,oil, defense cons should be taken to the Hague for their crimes against humanity. I complete believe that what they wanted in Iraq is complete chaos, death and destruction,

Don’t most people really want the same things?

A place to call home.
Food on the table,clean and safe water to drink.
A job where a person is paid fairly.
A good school for the kiddos.
Affordable quality healthcare.
Safe neighborhoods(more likely when the above needs are met).
All that and the dignity that comes from being able to provide those things for self and family.

Now,how do you take that message and put it in terms that won’t be trashed as DFH liberal?

OT, for light hearted fare.
E.O. Wilson, etymologist & evolutionary biologist just finished up on In Depth. The last Q was: what do we do about ants in the kitchen? The A was: feed them little bits of peanut butter, get down on your knees and study them. You will find it a most fascinating way to spend your time and learn things you never thought possible.

OT to Selise, thanks for the thought. Family’s fine. We had a skateboarding accident, suspected broken ankle, trip to the emergency room, xrays showing no break; and now I have a twelve year old with a bad sprain hobbling around on crutches. Could be worse.

Blub- OK- I’ll do it- your first assignment is to get us a million dollars.

rwcole @ 120

Blub- OK- I’ll do it- your first assignment is to get us a million dollars.

For that, I think we’d have to start burning show leather in Del Mar and Rancho. No money here, I’m afraid.

miller at 86 says-”As in, we had been, before Bush,voting Soc*al*st or Green, as in voting for what REAL LEFTY’s believe in and not throwing our votes into the sinkhole of the Dem party. How is that hard to understand? The Dem party has NEVER been the bastion of the far left in this country. If you think it has, I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you.”

the REAL LEFTY’S, as you like to call yourself, that i know aren’t as offensive in tone as you are……..and by your tone, you certainly haven’t ‘drafted’ me into your ‘my way or no way’ kind of thinking…and your lust for separation of people as posted in your first remarks….i wouldn’t call that bein’ a lefty……i would call that a fringe with no edge to call your own……….

How is my favorite CA-51 resident, Rep Bilbray (CA-53), doing anyway? Are people irritated enough to want to get rid of him next year? Or, better yet, can some court be persuaded into making him run, where he actually lives, in solidly Democratic CA-51, the majority of residents he probably refers to with racial epithets…

newtonusr @ 38

anangryoldbroad @ 13

How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

Massive quantities of drugs.

Don’t face him alone. Bring this GUY with you.

gotta go, will read comments later………

take care pups……..

eCAHNomics

Exactly how are you going to fight? That’s a genuine Q: demostrations?, what?

Sorry I missed this before.

Look for third party challengers to come out of the woodwork, for one thing. It does not matter one bit if it costs the Dems elections because this needs to happen. They need to be taught a lesson ie don’t go around pretending to speak for real progressives while never intending for one moment to actually work for us. Will this throw everything to Republicans? You bet, but as Malcolm X once said (paraphrasing, don’t have exact quote handy)”I’d rather have the wolf (Barry Goldwater) than the wolf in sheep’s clothing”. (LBJ)

Perhaps if we had all held the Democrats accountable way before now, this would not happen. As it is, and having continued to send them money and voting for them in spite of the endless capitulations, we are where we are.

Brian Phillip Bilbray (born January 28, 1951) is a U.S. Republican politician, who is a member of the United States House of Representatives, first serving from 1995 to 2001, representing California’s 49th congressional district. After that, he was a registered lobbyist. On June 6, 2006, Bilbray won a special election as representative for California’s 50th congressional district to serve out the remaining seven months of the term of former Representative Randy “Duke” Cunningham. Bilbray won re-election in the November 2006 general election.

selise @ 61

Hilde with an E @ 47

My concern is this: that the bill reached the floor proves to me that the fix was in.

My rep voted “no” as expected. But I want to know how he stood on changing the rules. That tells me if he’s “in on the fix” and with that knowledge I can offer more-better questions when I attend his next local meet up.

Thanks!

i don’t know the details of how the rules came down – other than that pelosi has control via the rules committee. i am going to try to see what i can find out on monday. this is “on the job” training for me too. i’m just trying to figure it all out as we go along (and am grateful for fact checking / corrections).

is your rep on the rules committee?

As I understand it Pelosi simply made a mistake. The “fix” wasn’t in. Rather, the 41 blue dog Dems threatened to bypass the speaker (if I recall correctly) and bring the bill to the floor without her. So Pelosi brought it up herself to avoid the humiliation. That was a political mistake I think. This is BTW what I recall from a post on DKos. I may not be remembering correctly.

and by your tone, you certainly haven’t ‘drafted’ me into your ‘my way or no way’ kind of thinking…

Err, I am not trying to draft you. Just giving you a heads up.

miller @ 30 and later

You keep setting off my troll sensor. “You people” is a bad phrase to be using.

rwcole @ 127

Brian Phillip Bilbray (born January 28, 1951) is a U.S. Republican politician, who is a member of the United States House of Representatives, first serving from 1995 to 2001, representing California’s 49th congressional district. After that, he was a registered lobbyist. On June 6, 2006, Bilbray won a special election as representative for California’s 50th congressional district to serve out the remaining seven months of the term of former Representative Randy “Duke” Cunningham. Bilbray won re-election in the November 2006 general election.

add to that bio, this http://www.nctimes.com/article….._11_06.txt

If anybody runs against him, they should say “resident of Imperial Beach” every time they mention his name. He should be running (hopelessly) against Filner, not in CA-53.

carolyn urban @ 119

OT to Selise, thanks for the thought. Family’s fine. We had a skateboarding accident, suspected broken ankle, trip to the emergency room, xrays showing no break; and now I have a twelve year old with a bad sprain hobbling around on crutches. Could be worse.

I have had the pleasure of hearing E.O.Wilson in person several times. What a brilliant individual. “Watch the Ants”

Eureka @ 52:
Yes, I recall reading their comments. I was just looking for documentation of the shenanigans.

selise @ 61:
Rep not on Rules but he is senior on Ways & Means.

Thanks for your replies.

I suppose Hugh @ 85 has it nailed, based on pow-wow’s & selises comments previously.

Amazing. What fuckery, indeed.

newtonusr @ 38

anangryoldbroad @ 13

How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

Massive quantities of drugs.

I sympathize. I got Dana Rohrabacher.

miller @ 126
Thx for the answer. In general I don’t agree with you because (among other reasons) if there were a 3rd party candidate waiting in the woodwork, we’d know it by now.

But on the issue of teaching the Ds a lesson, I’m with you. We have been enabling them. Unlike the Rs, none of the D powers in place give a d*mn about the base. They know we have no one else to vote for & thus take us for fools at every turn. Just can’t think of what to do about it, absent alternatives.

Just got a post card from Sen Arlen Specter. Going to be at St Francis College Aug 15 at 3:45 at activities Center in Loretto PA. That is about 75 miles east of Pittsburgh. 20 miles North of Johnstown. 50 miles SE of State College. I feel like I AM ON A FIRST VOICE BASIS WITH ALL HIS STAFF. Time for a visit. I have tried to set up apt with Specter but have not been able to. Try and come anyone within an hours drive. I will be there. Asking questions. There is no one who needs to be reminded of what his votes have done to this country.

Blub @ 68

I was absolutely shocked and dismayed to see yesterday somebody post something speculating on an imminent split, with DLCers leaving the party to join the rethugs, leaving the Dems to the progressives. This is nonsense. If the DLCers left, we’d still be left with some of the worst conservative Dems.

The strategy has to be that we target individuals who consistently side with rethugs, instead of basing our moral judgments on largely fictitious “fissure-lines” within our own party. And we progressives have to stop fabricating facts to suit our vision of what our party SHOULD look like, and then be disappointed when people we thought were friends end up betraying us, when their votes don’t fit our own delusions about where those fissure lines really lie. Reality is much more complicated than a simplistic vision of “good Dems” versus “bad Dems” = “progressives” versus “blue dogs”. In CA, these divisions seem to be almost meaningless.

That would have been me, and I certainly didn’t mean it the way you took it.

The only thing I can promise you is there is a huge political realignment coming – both for the GOP and for the Dems. Rove’s policies have blown the GOP apart. But at this point the Dems are united primarily by being in opposition to Bush, and will fracture when he’s no longer in the picture.

The $ interests (Federalist, then Whig, then Republican) will find a home and be a force to be reckoned with. There are many in the DLC who would love to have them. Bill Clinton played footsie with them for his entire presidency.

Someplace in there I said the secret is to push those issues that penetrate; and I speculated that Healthcare, Environment/Global Warming and something approaching Economic Justice are among those issues. And that Media reform is also vital, simply from a defensive posture.

I also tried to say that if a 3rd party arises (often does as coalitions rearrange), it would be preferable if it arose on the Right (the Wingnut Party) instead of on the Left (which would mean at least 1 more lost Presidential term).

Senator Spector is having a meeting at Monroe County building Thursday morning Aug 9 at 8:30. I hope to see lots of other northeast Pa people there. Probably a good idea to check his schedule closer to the day to be sure the schedule remains the same.

Alice B @ 136

Just got a post card from Sen Arlen Specter. Going to be at St Francis College Aug 15 at 3:45 at activities Center in Loretto PA. That is about 75 miles east of Pittsburgh. 20 miles North of Johnstown. 50 miles SE of State College. I feel like I AM ON A FIRST VOICE BASIS WITH ALL HIS STAFF. Time for a visit. I have tried to set up apt with Specter but have not been able to. Try and come anyone within an hours drive. I will be there. Asking questions. There is no one who needs to be reminded of what his votes have done to this country.

Good luck. Lotsa Qs for that critter.

noen @ 128

I’ll go over to Kos and poke around. If you find a link there, please post it.

If that is the case, then I’m less forlorn. 41 Blue Dogs are a reachable target but a corrupt house leadership makes me nauseous.

Thanks!

Hi Firepups!

I think this is a great idea, even here in Utah…the state where you HAVE to be o.k. with the idea of going down fighting.

I just saw Obama speak here in Park City today (he is on his way to a private fundraiser) after local organizers convinced him to stop and speak vs. just driving by. The organizers thought 100 people would show up. It was more like 300-400.

I am undecided on who I support among the Dems, but I have to say Obama sounds pretty good. Especially when he can say he was against the war from the beginning. The man gives a great speech.

Chickenhawks and patriots who love the troops to death

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080507D.shtml

Alice B. Sounds like Sen Spector has a number of these planned. I got a post card announcing the one in my area too. Hope to see lots of unhappy constituants there with me.

For those senators and representatives who need it… perhaps a fresh copy of the Constitution (and Bill of Rights) along with a bottle of gingko biloba?

shooogarp @ 141

Hi Firepups!

I think this is a great idea, even here in Utah…the state where you HAVE to be o.k. with the idea of going down fighting.

I just saw Obama speak here in Park City today (he is on his way to a private fundraiser) after local organizers convinced him to stop and speak vs. just driving by. The organizers thought 100 people would show up. It was more like 300-400.

I am undecided on who I support among the Dems, but I have to say Obama sounds pretty good. Especially when he can say he was against the war from the beginning. The man gives a great speech.

He does give a great speech, but he makes BAD mistakes in Q&A. Keep scrutinizing.

Oh good PJ Evans is here.

Earlier you mentioned that sci fi con organizers might be of help in organizing regional conventions of progressives. Since I don’t read sci fi or attend those types of events,how would I find the people who put these events together?

eCAHNomics @ 145

shooogarp @ 141

Hi Firepups!

I think this is a great idea, even here in Utah…the state where you HAVE to be o.k. with the idea of going down fighting.

I just saw Obama speak here in Park City today (he is on his way to a private fundraiser) after local organizers convinced him to stop and speak vs. just driving by. The organizers thought 100 people would show up. It was more like 300-400.

I am undecided on who I support among the Dems, but I have to say Obama sounds pretty good. Especially when he can say he was against the war from the beginning. The man gives a great speech.

He does give a great speech, but he makes BAD mistakes in Q&A. Keep scrutinizing.

Who do you like right now?

Karen M @ 144

For those senators and representatives who need it… perhaps a fresh copy of the Constitution (and Bill of Rights) along with a bottle of gingko biloba?

How much do the pocket copies cost? How ’bout hightlighting the 4th amendment?

Karen M @ 144

For those senators and representatives who need it… perhaps a fresh copy of the Constitution (and Bill of Rights) along with a bottle of gingko biloba?

Perhaps in a week or two Abu will be able to loan them one of his copies. They might still need the ginko biloba, though.

If there is one thing the blogs need most is a polling project. We need to let the politicians understand that the progressives, the anti Bush people, the anti war folks are the majority…not the fringe. How much are these polls? Can we organize our own? We need a think tank and a POLLING ORGANIZATION. It ain’t that difficult. And I don’t know why it would be that expensive. They don’t poll that many people. Can’t we piggy back on another poll? What is the thinking on this?

eCAHNomics @ 148

Karen M @ 144

For those senators and representatives who need it… perhaps a fresh copy of the Constitution (and Bill of Rights) along with a bottle of gingko biloba?

How much do the pocket copies cost? How ’bout hightlighting the 4th amendment?

I got my little copy of The Constitution,Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independance for under 5 dollars at Barnes and Noble. It’s a small hardcover book. I never leave home without it,lol.

On Fisa, if the reason this needed to be done was because it was over-ruled by the Judiciary, isn’t the normal thing to do to mount an appeal? I assume Bush thought he would lose. Nice job Dems

Tross @ 17

Hey all,

Anyone have any ideas on how to break through the wall of complacency among friends and family?

I’m constantly sending emails with articles and commentary but most of my friends and family are quite complacent regarding politics. I get the impression that most people think I’m exaggerating.

The average person does not seem inclined to believe that the basic foundations of our country and its freedoms are in serious jeopardy.

An excellent question– I’d like to know the answer, too. Especially when my daughter says I’m preaching to the choir… and I know that she’s not really a member of the choir.

Same thing with fairly progressive friends at work. For a long time, one thought I was off my rocker about the GOP’s illegal election tactics. Now, she has a clue that I was not… but that was a lot of wasted time.

anangryoldbroad @ 151

eCAHNomics @ 148

How much do the pocket copies cost? How ’bout hightlighting the 4th amendment?

I got my little copy of The Constitution,Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independance for under 5 dollars at Barnes and Noble. It’s a small hardcover book. I never leave home without it,lol.

You can get them at Buzzflash but I
can’t remember what I paid.

AT JTA
Olmert, Abbas may talk in West Bank
08/05/2007

Monday’s meeting between Ehud Olmert and Mahmoud Abbas may take place in the West Bank.

The Israeli prime minister and Palestinian Authority president are to hold the latest in an accelerated series of meetings Monday to discuss U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s recent visit to the region, aides said. The leaders may talk in Jericho, which would make it the first Israeli-Palestinian summit in the Palestinian Authority in at least six years.

Though the Palestinian Authority has been weakened by the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip, Abbas has showed renewed interest in reaching a settlement with Israel on the status of the West Bank after breaking with the Islamist group. Olmert, his popularity at a low ebb since the Lebanon war, also has indicated he could embrace sweeping peace talks with Abbas that could include discussions of final-status issues such as the borders of a planned Palestinian state.

P J Evans @ 130

miller @ 30 and later

You keep setting off my troll sensor. “You people” is a bad phrase to be using.

I agree that would be bad. Now quote me where I said it.

eCAHNomics @ 135 thank you for your thoughtful reply. This FISA debacle is about to unleash a backlash against the Democrats which will motivate a lot of pissed off people to run against them. As I said above, they may not win, but neither will the Dems because a lot of money and effort that would have gone to them is about to go bye-bye. Not only that, but many mainstream liberals will have had enough with this final betrayal-I see it here in the comments and elsewhere today, tho they are a lot more muted than myself.

I guess having been on the streets while my brother was being slaughtered in Vietnam has a lot to do with my attitude.

GordonM @ 137

Thanks for clarifying, and I don’t disagree with you that there isn’t some small chance that the rethug party doesn’t survive shrub/Rove in its present form, but I tink that OUR strategy as Dems has to be to maintain party loyalty while the rethugs fracture. My point is, that our job should be to prevent our supporters from getting fooled into leaving to join a rebranded rethug “third party” that is really just about internal divisions among the wingnuts, racists, nativists, theocons, neocons, militarists, laissez fairists, libertarians, anarchists, flat taxers, flat earthers, cultists and whatever else constitutes the rethug camp.

Their problems aren’t our problems, and we need to make sure our members understand that, instead of exaggerating the comparatively minute differences among our most conservative and most liberal members. We may be disappointed in our leaders (justifiably) but we’re not about to fall apart as a party, and we shouldn’t let the rethugs drag us down into whatever calamity they and their boy king have set up for themselves.

angryoldbroad @ 146

Well, you can find conventions by looking in the back of Analog, which is a monthly magazine – try your local big-box bookstore. Also Locus has a listing every couple of months (they have a website too). They both have addresses where you can find people. Check at your local college, because there might be a club who can point you further up. Two places to look onliine are http://www.scifiinc.org (southern California; also see lasfs.org) and http://www.nesfa.org (New England).

“progressives, the anti Bush people, the anti war folks are the majority…not the fringe”

Anti Bush people are certainly the majority…don’t know about “progressives”- they’re not well enough defined- my guess is that if you asked 1,000 americans if they are progressives they’d say “HUH?”

Anti war? Well most people think it was a mistake- most want a timetable for withdrawal- those are mainstream positions. Most people do NOT want an immediate withdrawal and most do not favor cutting off funds. Polls are already available to “prove” all these assertions.

behindthefall @ 92

Going through junk mail on a Sunday afternoon … here’s Trilegiant (gaak! what a name!) offering to charge me $150 a year to tell me whether my personal habits make me a likely target of identity theft.

Excuse me? First, the concept of being a likely target doesn’t match any receptor in my brain. But, second, what does this say about the intensity of surveillance to which we have allowed ourselves to be subjected already and also about the comprehensiveness of the databases which track our moves and habits?

And here’s a thought … I certainly do not have $150 to throw at this, but what do you want to bet that somebody could run the offer backwards: pay for a list of most vulnerable people? There might be a better return on that investment than on your average IRA. Entrepreneurs wanted. Who’s watching this particular chicken coop? Any of our friendly local Dems?

Um, clearly you’re not in sales. The practice of keeping (and selling) lists of marks and suckers dates back a few hundred years. In the 60s they invented the science of “demographics”. Now anyone with a credit rating is on any number of those lists. And yes, if you knew where to look you could buy lists of people vulnerable to ID theft.

eCAHNomics @ 118

OT, for light hearted fare.
E.O. Wilson, etymologist & evolutionary biologist just finished up on In Depth. The last Q was: what do we do about ants in the kitchen? The A was: feed them little bits of peanut butter, get down on your knees and study them. You will find it a most fascinating way to spend your time and learn things you never thought possible.

Or you can help astronomers classify a million galaxies, on the toobz of the internets.

Welcome to GalaxyZoo , the project which harnesses the power of the internet – and your brain – to classify a million galaxies. By taking part, you’ll not only be contributing to scientific research, but you’ll view parts of the Universe that literally no-one has ever seen before and get a sense of the glorious diversity of galaxies that pepper the sky

Recreational/educational reading: Heinlein’s “If This Goes On” (and the rest of The Past Through Tomorrow). What kind of fight we could have – still might – be up against. Start thinking very long term.

shooogarp @ 147
Edwards. Have been with him all along so far. Obama too young & naive, esp wrt making nice with opposition that thinks bipartisanship is date rape. His biggest bad: invade Pakistan with “actional intelligence” of AQ.* Hillary is DLC, and the 90s are over, really really over. Like Edwards’ domestic agenda (2 Americas & all that follows). Think he’s shakier on foreign policy. Among the top 3, he’s the strongest on getting out of Iraq, but beyond that, I’m not sure how much command of the issues he has. And I really like his not taking donations from big DC lobbyists.
*Short Juan Cole, or maybe somewhere else; can’t seem to find it now: You never have actionable intelligence and all ops in Pak can be done with small special forces groups, iirc. Apparently we’ve already scooped up 600 of the bad guys that way.

rwcole @ 159

Anti Bush people are certainly the majority…don’t know about “progressives”- they’re not well enough defined- my guess is that if you asked 1,000 americans if they are progressives they’d say “HUH?”

I sort of agree, but not completely. I think that the rethug party has become a big tent only for extremists, and that the majority of the American people hold values that are more in line with the Democrats than with whatever the rethugs still, debatebly, stand for. Thus, unless we suicide over internal bickering (a very real risk), we are in a better position than the rethugs, overall.. especially over time, because Democratic values are, even more so than for the population at large, the values of younger Americans.

Not all of these Dems have to be members of the liberal wing of the party, and certainly not all of them will identify with the term “progressive” , which, in turn, is just a type of convenient/harmless euphemism, that I use, and many do, but has very little real meaning, other than as a self-declaration of our relative position on a plurality of issues, within the party, in its internal debates. IMO, we should have no “progressive” identity outside of the party, and, frankly, we had better not. It’s time to show unity.. diversity yes, but unity nonetheless.

eCAHNomics @ 163

shooogarp @ 147
Edwards. Have been with him all along so far. Obama too young & naive, esp wrt making nice with opposition that thinks bipartisanship is date rape. His biggest bad: invade Pakistan with “actional intelligence” of AQ.* Hillary is DLC, and the 90s are over, really really over. Like Edwards’ domestic agenda (2 Americas & all that follows). Think he’s shakier on foreign policy. Among the top 3, he’s the strongest on getting out of Iraq, but beyond that, I’m not sure how much command of the issues he has. And I really like his not taking donations from big DC lobbyists.
*Short Juan Cole, or maybe somewhere else; can’t seem to find it now: You never have actionable intelligence and all ops in Pak can be done with small special forces groups, iirc. Apparently we’ve already scooped up 600 of the bad guys that way.

Love Edwards. I believe if it had been Edwards/Kerry in 06, we wouldn’t have Bush in the White House right now.

Unfortunately, for me it’s Edwards, Obama…and then nobody.

miller @ 156

I guess having been on the streets while my brother was being slaughtered in Vietnam has a lot to do with my attitude.

And how exactly has that worked for ya huh? Not to well at all I see. The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves. Passive-aggressive, look it up.

New thread upstairs – and check out what is on Rove’s lapels.

miller-

noen attacked me once. Don’t take it personally.

noen @ 166

miller @ 156

I guess having been on the streets while my brother was being slaughtered in Vietnam has a lot to do with my attitude.

And how exactly has that worked for ya huh? Not to well at all I see. The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves. Passive-aggressive, look it up.

Dude, the history of the left purists is the progressive movement. Look it up. It was betrayed by the likes of you-”Democratic Party, right or wrong! rah rah rah!”

168
eCAHNomics, you are a prince(ess?)

miller @ 170

168
eCAHNomics, you are a prince(ess?)

Sometimes. But thanks.

Blub @ 157

GordonM @ 137

Thanks for clarifying, and I don’t disagree with you that there isn’t some small chance that the rethug party doesn’t survive shrub/Rove in its present form, but I tink that OUR strategy as Dems has to be to maintain party loyalty while the rethugs fracture. My point is, that our job should be to prevent our supporters from getting fooled into leaving to join a rebranded rethug “third party” that is really just about internal divisions among the wingnuts, racists, nativists, theocons, neocons, militarists, laissez fairists, libertarians, anarchists, flat taxers, flat earthers, cultists and whatever else constitutes the rethug camp.

Their problems aren’t our problems, and we need to make sure our members understand that, instead of exaggerating the comparatively minute differences among our most conservative and most liberal members. We may be disappointed in our leaders (justifiably) but we’re not about to fall apart as a party, and we shouldn’t let the rethugs drag us down into whatever calamity they and their boy king have set up for themselves.

OK, mostly I was trying to predict (and probably shouldn’t have put any “shoulds” in there) based on history.

On the Repub side, I think many of the evangelicals will just stay home, and I think Rove pushed them too hard, (I’m hoping the politicization of churches mostly subsides). They’ve lost the Hispanics. So assuming they don’t just evaporate, I think they’ll start trying to reach out to conservative Dems.

Meanwhile, a lot of ex-Reaganites have joined the Dems. So have the awakened, or do they just think Bush went too far?

Anyway, I used “DLC” as shorthand; and I’m not anti-business, just pro economic justice, regulation, and all for public ownership of the commons.

I like it. Great use of video. I like the Congressman at time=2:00 minutes wearing knicker socks with ballet slippers, hiding from the constituents. Then they come, the constituents. From 2:00 minutes with the two guys to 1:38 minutes where it is the freakiest of the freaks.

Yes, we are all alotted representation by those who “WORK FOR US.” Remember, they do not (yet) serve at the pleasure of the president, or the bridge buildiing lobby, those fuckers work for us.

miller @ 86

’started voting Dem’? huh?

you’re not making sense, and your other post didn’t match up either……

As in, we had been, before Bush,voting Soc*al*st or Green, as in voting for what REAL LEFTY’s believe in and not throwing our votes into the sinkhole of the Dem party. How is that hard to understand? The Dem party has NEVER been the bastion of the far left in this country. If you think it has, I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you.

~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~

And that’s a big part of how we ended up with Bush and his new & improved SCOTUS. That one issue alone should have been enough to vote Democratic, in both 2000 and 20004. And, as for the environment… Bush v Gore? It should have been a no-brainer for all “real” lefties.

Crooks & Liars has this link on their site, yet I have not seen Pelosi’s post-FISA letter to Conyers linked or discussed anywhere else.

http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=661

eCAHNomics @ 163

shooogarp @ 147
Edwards. Have been with him all along so far. Obama too young & naive, esp wrt making nice with opposition that thinks bipartisanship is date rape. His biggest bad: invade Pakistan with “actional intelligence” of AQ.* Hillary is DLC, and the 90s are over, really really over. Like Edwards’ domestic agenda (2 Americas & all that follows). Think he’s shakier on foreign policy. Among the top 3, he’s the strongest on getting out of Iraq, but beyond that, I’m not sure how much command of the issues he has. And I really like his not taking donations from big DC lobbyists.
*Short Juan Cole, or maybe somewhere else; can’t seem to find it now: You never have actionable intelligence and all ops in Pak can be done with small special forces groups, iirc. Apparently we’ve already scooped up 600 of the bad guys that way.

If you’re still here eCAHN, I thought Edward’s foreign policy position paper was by far the best of the lot.

Gee, Christy, I said the very same thing last night, but I guess I’m just one of the little dogs here at the lake. I have some other ideas too, but never mind.

Maybe not self identified as progressive but they think basically that way.
Hardly anyone thinks this war was a good idea. Most if ask would respond by saying to leave as soon as practically possible.
These are not fringe posotions.

rwcole @ 159

“progressives, the anti Bush people, the anti war folks are the majority…not the fringe”

Anti Bush people are certainly the majority…don’t know about “progressives”- they’re not well enough defined- my guess is that if you asked 1,000 americans if they are progressives they’d say “HUH?”

Anti war? Well most people think it was a mistake- most want a timetable for withdrawal- those are mainstream positions. Most people do NOT want an immediate withdrawal and most do not favor cutting off funds. Polls are already available to “prove” all these assertions.

Thread upstairs.

Hugh @85

Pelosi sent a letter to Chairmen Conyers and Reyes to work on legislation to amend the FISA bill as soon as the recess is over with. Any idea what’s up with that?

I love this idea. I am in Sam Graves, MO-6th, district and he is going to have a real fight on his hands this election against Kay Barnes. Yet, having attended many local government meetings and witnessing the effectiveness (or not) of participants I could use some help crafting questions that will drive the issues without coming off looking like the “crazy lady” with the binder.

I am definitely planning on trying to set up meetings with my Senators and Representative: Clinton, Schumer, and Maloney.

One evening a few months ago, I was at a table next to Schumer’s in a restaurant in NYC. When I got up after my meal, I approached him and mentioned that I was a constituent and supporter. He enthusiastically engaged in a several minute conversation, and even continued the discussion after I offered an opportunity for him to disengage by stating that I didn’t want to interrupt his meal. He could have easily and smoothly thanked me for my support and ended the discussion, but he willingly kept talking with me and my father.

It was clear that he enjoys interacting with his constituents. I guess if you don’t, politics is not a good career choice. I think most politicians–at least the ones who aren’t just jonesing for power–are really just attention hounds.

If we give them attention and make it clear what behavior is going to garner them more positive attention in the future, we can really influence their behavior.

anangryoldbroad @ 13

…
How am I supposed to face this guy alone and get him to even listen to me? (Tom Price R,GA-06)

Congratulate him on his win on the FISA bill. Remind him it’s a big win for the Republicans to get that through the Dem controlled House.

Ask him to explain the bill and if they convinced the Dems to vote for it, and how?

Ask him why he’s not concerned about the power being all in Executive Branch hands (AG & DNI)?

Ease into it with lots of neutral complimentary stuff. Don’t be accusatory.

rwcole @ 88

Blub

To some extent I’m a pro business democrat. I have worked in executive positions for two corporations. I believe in a climate that encourages commerce and business activity- it’s good for the economy and can lift all boats. I also believe in the need for strong govt. regulation of business- we are quite capable of great excesses without someone lookin over our shoulders.

So maybe I’m DLC- I don’t know. I also hate Clusterfuck and his war. If I get “purged” I guess I’ll have to figure out where to go.

If you “don’t know”, then you’re definitely NOT a DLCer.

Pro-business is great. Just also be pro-family and pro-individuals and pro-Constitution!

I don’t see it written, but I like to think of the Progressive ‘wing’ of the Democratic Party as somehow more wholistic in it’s thinking.

shooogarp @ 141

Hi Firepups!

…
I am undecided on who I support among the Dems, but I have to say Obama sounds pretty good. Especially when he can say he was against the war from the beginning. The man gives a great speech.

Ted Kennedy and Jesse Jackson and Mario Cuomo do too, but they aren’t going to be president.

It’s just not enough.

He says he is an agent of change (just as Hillary Clinton does). Ask him, aside from changing direction on the war in Iraq, what change he brings except to “talk differently” about the issues.

He is too much of a DLC follower and when it comes to details he isn’t there. He speaks in great abstract rhetoric to avoid the details which would reveal more precisely what he’s actually FOR.

Hillary is doing much the same except she doesn’t even give the great speeches.

rwcole @ 159

“progressives, the anti Bush people, the anti war folks are the majority…not the fringe”

Anti Bush people are certainly the majority…don’t know about “progressives”- they’re not well enough defined- my guess is that if you asked 1,000 americans if they are progressives they’d say “HUH?”

…

Senator Hillary Clinton said she was a “modern Progressive”. Ask her what it means. The answer ought to be interesting.

Progressives were against the war before most of the public. Most Progressives were for Howard Dean in the 2004 presidential race. Progressives have been for health care reform a long time (though Ted Kennedy can probably claim he’s been for it even longer).

Maybe the public is for Progressive Democrats, they just don’t realize it yet.

Polls typically show the public favor the Democratic Party positions on almost all issues. But, some just get caught up in the Republican rhetoric and often single-issues (like abortion, gay marriage or gun control) catch their attention, so they vote against their true interests.

I don’t think I want a face to face with Feinstein. I’d just want to smack hers.

miller @ 30

Let me tell you what is about to happen. An irreperable schism between moderates and centrists such as most of the people active in the netroots, and the true left, the real DFH’s, is effective immediately. Like myself, most true lefty’s started voting Dem because the excesses of Boosh and Co. scared the bejeebus out of us. We had hoped to stem the blood dimmed tide. That has not occurred. In fact, it has been enabled at every turn.

There is nothing the netroots can do to rope us back in. The “purists” who are so reviled on these pages and others around the “left” blogosphere will now resolutely refuse to be morally implicated along with the blood soaked, filthy collaborators of the Democratic Party.

The real, bottom line difference between us real lefty’s and you in the blogosphere? We are willing to put our bodies on the line, always have, always will. You will never get anything done sitting at your computers. You say you are “fighting” and not giving up. But none of you have ever gotten out of your corners, much less put on the gloves. You say you are not willing to give up after “one battle”, and those not willing to keep on fighting should just get out of the way. NO! Now you all are going to have to get out of the way and let the real fighters get on with what must be done. This “one battle” is the straw that broke the camels back, and if you cannot see that, you soon will.

Do you know the tale of the Austrian Socialist Party in 1936?
Same stuff you are “implying” here.

Lotta good that the schism did for either side.

And why can’t people be involved in “communicating” and also take part in protests? How doi you know that people here haven’t demonstrated? Or are you talking about real “fighting”?

That really succeeded, now, didn’t it.

Without broadening your base to beyond a few in the “super-secret handshake” Black Ski-Mask rock-through Starbuck’s club I don’t see any viable chance you’ll succeed.

rwcole @ 127

Brian Phillip Bilbray (born January 28, 1951) is a U.S. Republican politician, who is a member of the United States House of Representatives, first serving from 1995 to 2001, representing California’s 49th congressional district. After that, he was a registered lobbyist. On June 6, 2006, Bilbray won a special election as representative for California’s 50th congressional district to serve out the remaining seven months of the term of former Representative Randy “Duke” Cunningham. Bilbray won re-election in the November 2006 general election.

He was a lobbyist for Metabolife, a firm that produced a toxic nutrient supplement that killed dozens of people. When Bilbray was a Congressman he pushed through legislation easing FDA regulation of pseudephedrine, a precursor to methamphetamine. The owner of Metabolife, a former convicted drug-dealer was found guilty of coercively forcing his employees to support Bilbray’s earlier campaigns for Congress.

This guy has blood on his hands…even more so now when we think of the Meth epidemic his mindless legislation allowed to occur.