Sheila Jackson Lee On FISABy: Jane Hamsher Saturday August 4, 2007 10:30 pm |
She got me through the Clinton impeachment. I guess she’s gonna do it again.
(h/t TheOtherWA)
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Jane!
Poke.
Tres!
Not a great vote tonight from some Dems. :(
This diary lists the Dems who voted with the Rethugs: (mostly Blue Dogs): http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/5/01943/25391
Hi Jane!
Love Sheila.
Nice Janezed, newton.
I’d vote for this woman in a heartbeat… the people are coming…they are indeed, Ms. Lee.
Reading about Dred Scott this evenening. How many times do African Americans have to re-explain to the rest of us these awful things White people do to the whole country from time to time, again and again?
{{{{Sheila Jackson Lee}}}} The US Legislators who most often epitomise the fight against stupid and dangerous civil rights legislation are our Black congress men and women.
EPU’d after only 128 comments?
DAVID BROMWICH on Huffington Post
I like her.
Takes no shit, she isn’t in the fertilizer bidness.
I’d like to see her have a short chat with some dumbasses.
Mitch, these threads is moving pretty fast tonight ;-)
Some serious fuckery is going on tonite! Everywhere!!! WTF!!! *g*
“I ask my collegues to support the Bill of Rights.” — Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee
Can’t put it much plainer than that.
Wish we had about 41 more like her.
CTuttle @ 13
Tell me about it. No one tells me nuttin now that everyone is at YKOS.
Rob Zuber @ 4
And, in the analyses afterwards, one of the worst provisions goes pretty much unnoticed–that “reasonable belief” now supplants “probable cause.” That, combined with turning over oversight and certifications to the DNI and the AG, castrates the 4th Amendment.
we could use a couple hundred more Sheila Jackson Lees…
LoudounLib @ 12
The Mod Squad is gonna need to see their chiropractors after all the back and forth-induced whiplash.
oh dayam, y’all — time for me to split…
thanks for everything, from every one of you.
Peace, and let’s take back our country!
g’nite ll
Hear Hear!
and to clarify what she was saying about “authorization already given” wasn’t
Rep. Shelia Jackson Lee referring to the 9/11 commission legislation just passed?
A ‘gentleman’ from the other side of the aisle immediately contradicted
SJL after she spoke.
Maybe(?) there is still some oversight that may be salvaged through
9/11 commission legislation. There is language referring to oversight that prevents infringement on civil rights –
Maybe it’ll be a dogfight between that 9/11law and the FISA end-around…
I yield the balance of my inquiry to
those better equipped to compare these laws side by side.
LoudounLib @ 19
nite LL. Some night, huh?
23?
On the road a lot of today. Trying to catch up. Are we ready to start a Ben Stevens indictment pool yet, Mitch?
yellowdog jim @ 23
looking for a second zed ydj?
It makes me nauseous to agree with Newt Gingrich but I have . . . http://blogs.abcnews.com/polit…..alls-.html
Ed*ard Teller @ 24
I measured the sign at the airport to see if we could squeeze in the words, “unindicted co-conspirator” above T.S.
I suppose the good thing is that we get a “do-over” in six months. Which means we have six months to make re-authorizing this bill positively shameful.
Cáitín @ 26
Yeah, but Newtie only says that because he wants everyone else to be as batshit insane as he is….
Read you, Mitch; take a breath. And is there any way dial-up ppl can see these youtubes? Download them somewhere else? OK, nevermind. Just a bit frayed about the vote and was impatient about seeing this woman speak…gee, I might have to get (no, can’t affort it) cable…ugh.
Misc @ 28
The way I understand it, the bill comes up again in 6 months but is good for an entire forking year so what good is the 6 months?
Misc @ 28
In the mean time, we need to get some 80 grit asswipe and take to the seats of some weak kneed Blue Dogs.
Hell to pay for this crap.
That’s a cigarette-paper short of something Godwin-worthy. Give the Leader what he wants, and we’ll reap the benefits when the elections come. I honestly think that’s the metric. And it’s insane, especially if the GOP fundie base throws aside all its supposed core principles and nominates a thug like Giuliani.
For fuck’s sake. The sunset on this bill is meant to be in, what, six months? If Bush signs it within the next day or so, the time-out comes in early February. Smack in the middle of the primary calendar.
Dumb. fuckers.
Watching the Dennis Miller-Bill O’Reilly putdown of Sen. Dodd from C&L. Both these guys – I hardly know where to start. Why does FOX hate our freedoms?
Suzanne @ 25
no.
sometimes i’m trying for a 23.
not as easy as it looks.
(yes it is.)
it takes everything i got to keep up here.
i fully expect to be behind.
My take on tonight’s disgraceful vote is that it means they are serious about impeachment being off the table.
FISA violations are one of the main reasons for impeachment, and if there is no outrage, there is no impeachment. And how can there be outrage, when Dems are voting to make the violations equal.
I say make em all feel our wrath. No matter if they have an R or a D behind their name – every forking time my congresscritter does, says, or votes in opposition to my wishes, I’m gonna be all over em voicing my displeasure at the job they are doing representing me.
BigMitch @ 36
Oof! Did I mention I hated ya, Mitch! *g*
montag @ 29
Yes, but if Mr. Batshit Insane gets even a marginal number of koolaid drinkers to understand that Bush is fighting a phony was on terror maybe a few REP Congresscritters will stop bitching about Bush in private and start voting to pull us out of Iraq and/or keep us out of Iran.
Bush to Dems:
Give me your lunch money…..losers.
Cáitín @ 39
mighty big IF there…
mhpcr @ 30
i got an add on for my firefox browser called “VideoDownloader”. Its icon sits in the lower right corner of the browser window and i can click on it on any page with video and it pulls the video onto my hard drive.
then the video can play it on Downloader’s own player.
anywhoo …
i think that this should work with dial-up, IF it doesn’t take days to download.
once you get on your drive, it should be all go.
maybe.
good luck.
Has it been decided where YK3 will be?
BigMitch @ 36
We’ll see if Conyers makes good on his promise vis a vis the impeachment resolution … I think they have enough signatures (17).
mhpcr @ 30
Maybe. I haven’t tried it myself, but if you use Firefox there’s an extension called VideoDownloader or something. It only works from certain sites, but I think main YouTube is one of them.
Does anyone know what hearings are scheduled for next week ?
Cáitín @ 26
OMFG! The Newt has the courage to say things that have Democrats quivvering in the closets. Maybe I won’t have to vote for Hillary after all.
So its a 6 month reauthorization cycle, for this thing. Whats that totalitarianism on the installment plan? Or is something else afoot, What can congress be thinking, or the senate. Why give in at all, there has to be more. It can’t just be politics unless there is something so unpleasant coming up, the Dem.s are going to stop. Or is it that they are so weak and feeble minded that they will not stand up to stop this, and think they will be some how forgiven.
Petrocelli @ 44
If there were more people of color and women in Congress, we’d be into the second week of Cheney’s trial in the Senate by now.
Cáitín @ 39
Newtie is the ultimate political animal–he is completely amoral and utterly shameless. He will say anything to bring attention to his potential upcoming campaign. Things would be far, far worse with him around.
That said, none of the Repugs are going to abandon Bush as long as they can keep doing what they’re doing now. Tonight was an excellent example of that–much solidarity behind Bush’s demands. Damned few defections, because Bush is playing the fear card again, and they believe that works. (Certainly works on some of the Democrats, and on their base.) I don’t think Newtie’s got enough juice to alter that.
Did the House dems bend over too? Sorry I’m out of touch.
If they did, it’s time to organize.
Petrocelli @ 44
refresh my recollection, please. What promise, and what impeachment?
wigwam @ 47
Isn’t that ironic ?
I’m not very worried about all these interim congressional/presidential battles. They don’t mean much anyway.
Why?
The economy! It is imploding before our eyes. It is going to take the entire gov’t down with it. At first, the economists said the housing problems were minor and of no consequence when compared to the total US economy. But no longer. These folks are scared witless, they can see the handwriting on the wall.
When most of the country becomes broke, destitute, many homeless, hungry with absolutely nothing to loose then watch out.
This idiotic war will end promptly, congress will act or be replaced, george bush (sorry, not worth wasting capital letters on) will fade away as a bad memory.
Don’t believe it? Watch.
Ed*ard Teller @ 43
No, ET. But everyone needs to start saving their money.
Loo Hoo. @ 51
Oh yes. Time to organize.
Ed*ard Teller @ 49
I think that Whitehouse’s influence on the SJC has been nothing short of remarkable and that Conyers will impeach Cheney this fall.
Cáitín @ 39
thank you!
They are teetering like dominoes.
They’re notoriously group thinkers,
and when the cracks start to show,
the time is right for the push!
We have to be smart about this and
appeal to as many fronts as possible
our reps and “theirs” — all of them
answer to all of us.
Expect them to have a conscience and
then appeal to it mightily. Repeat.
Petrocelli @ 46
I bookmarked this link, but it doesn’t appear to be updated.
Petrocelli @ 57
Yep. And they love to be seen with him. Notice how close Schumer and DiFi keep Senator Whitehouse…
Petrocelli @ 46
Hey, Guy! Our heroine in that department is selise. Check with her anytime by clicking on her name.
no hearings next week – they are on fucking vacation for a month now
Loo Hoo. @ 55
I wish i had money to save. i’m stuck in teh hand to mouth existance they call ‘working poor.’ (for the time being. i’m working on getting out of it but that still takes time!)
How much trouble would I be in “if” I said I felt like hitting all of people with a shoe.
argosfalcon @ 48
Giving in to Bush only emboldens him.
Every once in a while, another government outdoes the Bushista Regime in bullheaded arrogance:
Tibet’s living Buddhas have been banned from reincarnation without permission from China’s atheist leaders. The ban is included in new rules intended to assert Beijing’s authority over Tibet’s restive and deeply Buddhist people.
“The so-called reincarnated living Buddha without government approval is illegal and invalid,” according to the order, which comes into effect on September 1.
aliasofwestgate @ 63
I hear you, but just think maybe we could pester them for more online stuff.
BigMitch @ 52
I don’t recall recollecting … *g*
Conyers promised that if House Resolution 333 ( the resolution to begin the impeachment of Dick Cheney by Kucinich) got 17 signatures, he would move it to the front burner. I’m sure he said that 17 was the magic number, can anyone else confirm that?
Shays(CT) and one other Republican(don’t know the other) voted against. For Shays it seems it was for political survival.
Suzanne @ 62
D’oh! No wonder the link isn’t updated.
wangdangdoodle @ 59
congress is on vacation next week.
KWSmith @ 54
I’ll give you an amen…
Trouble for global property stocks
And they’re only looking in the rear view mirror.
Loo Hoo. @ 61
Thanks for the heads up, Loo Hoo.
newtonusr @ 60
Sure, he makes them seem smarter.
pseudonymous in nc @ 33
Exactly. I’m disabled with a cognitive dysfunction and I got that: What were they thinking? Unless someone knows a lot that we don’t. That’s the only excuse for this travesty: we had Abu against the wall and running! Supoenas for Rove and Miers? HA! Did that just undermine Leahy? (I usually read and will continue to do so. Thank you all so much.)
Petrocelli @ 44
Within the HJC itself!!!
Some Democrats get it. Sheila Jackson Lee is one of them. What I don’t understand is why the weak members don’t listen to real leaders like her and follow her example!
Prince of Darkness Novak said at the YAF convention that he thought Giuliani could carry California in the general election. Does anyone agree?
Looks like Don Young’s legal bills are forcing him to put his 2008 Campaign Web Site in limbo. Or, maybe……?
heard the old expression, “necktie party”?
montag @ 50
i was thinking of it tonight because these days it’s shortened to just,
“Get a rope!”
None of which we can employ tonight since threats of physical violence are strictly taboo at the Lake.
BUT, i was thinking (dreaming, really):
What IF pelosi, et al had a plan that was going to cook cheneybu$hco?
What if their plan is to give them enough rope?
as in a self-help plan for the cheneybu$hco?
(when i was an Oilers fan, i used to tell myself that they were losing just to make the other team over-confident. not all that different here.)
i said i was dreaming.
Suzanne @ 62
I thought I read in one of the Late Nite comments that there will be more hearings this week on AGAG …
neokneme @ 72
As much as I agree with your assessment of the economy I can’t see Bush/Cheney doing anything rational. They declare national emergency and martial law.
BigMitch @ 78
No forking way.
BigMitch @ 78
ET bows in the direction of Novakula’s all-powerful ouija board…
BigMitch @ 36
Yup. I’d been nursing some delusions about impeachment. Doesn’t look likely now – not even for agag.
Cáitín @ 26
Does this help you out any? Personally I’ll take any excuse not to agree with Newtie-boy. Besides, isn’t his degree in history?
Can’t confirm 17, Petrocelli, but I have absolutely no doubt about the accuracy of what you say.
wigwam @ 71
They’re doing the same thing they chided the Iraqi Parliament for, they left town!!! The heat is on…!!! *g*
I can’t see Ghouliani carrying a MAP of California.
Ed*ard Teller @ 66
I do firmly believe that China is the Republican template for the near-future of America. Mark it down.
Ed*ard Teller @ 49
enough senators of non-white non-straight not-so-much-male persuasion and the trial wouldn’t take a whole week, let alone two.
Congress doesn’t return until Sept. 4th. Make a point of visiting you local rep’s office before then. I know I will.
yellowdog jim @ 80
Ah, well, if that’s the case, I’m pretty sure that Bush and Co.™ have slipped the noose again.
The war rages on adding more marble flowers to the gardens of stone, the economy falters only thing the poor and middle class is suffer, infrastructure falls apart Washington sings its the states fault no ours. The rich and powerful care not, as we become the poor and huddled masses yearning to be free.
V for Vendetta as prophecy:
A SCIENCE laboratory that develops vaccines for the government was last night identified as the suspected source of Britain’s latest outbreak of foot and mouth disease.
Merial SAS, a private research firm, agreed to suspend production of a strain of the foot and mouth virus that it had been using to produce vaccines.
It is based just three miles from the fields where the outbreak was first detected. So far it has led to the culling of at least three herds.
The company’s production plant is next to the Institute for Animal Health, a government laboratory at Pirbright, near Guildford in Surrey.
Good planning, eh mates?
No more doubt about it, our country has been taken over and it is not the grand country it once was. All our pols. are pocket people. Deep in the pockets of powerful wealthy special interests. I continually wonder what on god’s green earth might Bush, Cheney etc. have on, or have said to, our Democrats to cause them to vote against we the people time and time again. Are they just plain stupid, don’t they realize that the little power they had is dribbling away nearly gone now after tonight. What I dont get is how they can allow someone who has spat upon them at every turn the last 6 months and ground them under his presidential heel to pulverized bits, to get one iota of what he demands. As Sheila Jackson Lee demonstrated here the presidential demand should have been ripped up and thrown down like a gauntlet. It could have been done but pocketpeople don’t have the brains or courage to figure out what they are setting in motion by once again rolling over. damn damn damn
Petrocelli @ 81
Don’t know about that, but I’ll be holding my breath all month re: recess appointments.
Ed*ard Teller @ 34
Why does Fox hate comedy?
TheOtherWA @ 92
I’ll be busy spinning my wheels, except Inouye crossed over for the Senate vote, yet, I’d only be preaching to the choir! I’m so fortunate!!! *g*
Nanz @ 96
In a word: “Anthrax.” Or two: “Wellstone.”
TheOtherWA @ 92
I really don’t think our Rep and Senators plan on coming within 2,000 miles of their state during recess, eh, Mitch?
1970cs @ 82
Either way it’s a clusterfuck in handcuffs…
The credit squeeze
Abandon ship
CTuttle @ 88
Oh yeah, they made noise early on but then they sort of shut up about that.
Fuckery?
Loo Hoo. @ 87
He also told Cindy that there was no way to impeach … my earlier comment was “We’ll see if Conyers makes good on his promise vis a vis the impeachment resolution” … whether he will follow through or waffle …
Bustednuckles @ 89
Or a Thomas Guide?
Ed*ard Teller @ 84
LOL !!!
Man I just wish I could hit someone (a political type) with a shoe, or a real unpleasant slipper, my T.V will have dents soon if I don’t stop.
Those, whose collusion has aided and abetted appalling policies and behaviors which have brought our nation into low repute, share with this President, an infamy that time shall not erase.
Ed*ard Teller @ 95
Holy sh*t!
wangdangdoodle @ 97
Please tell me that Reid is leaving a skeleton staff on the hill to prevent recess appointments …
neokneme @ 102
At this point I’m thinking of cashing out of my local bank and putting it in my mattress.
Petrocelli,
Didn’t make it to your wonderful country like we had hoped to do on thie Washington trip, but ETette was boating in Canadian waters yesterday when three pods of Orcas came by, feasting on Fraser River Sockeye. She’d never seen so many before – one person in her kayak group estimated over 60 (!!!). They got charged a couple of times, but it was just water play. North of San Juan Island.
KWSmith @ 54
Did you see the video of “Mad Money” Cramer from yesterday?
Petrocelli @ 81
I don’t know about that but the CSpan will be showing all week long House and Senate hearings (replays) relating to impeachment of Cheney and AUSA stfuff.
wangdangdoodle @ 109
So its back to duct tape and plastic.
Ed*ard Teller @ 101
Doubt it seriuosly, for any of ours. Fax machines will be empty of paper, email domains will be blocked and mail will be unopened.
Pach may be right about “in person”. But bring a video camera in case they try to arrest you for, uh, err, um, subversion?
Petrocelli @ 110
Good news – he did.
Bad news – they’re the same ones in his closet which got him to vote for the FISA fuckery.
1970cs @ 111
It might come to that!!! It’s nice to hear new voices!!! Aloha!
Petrocelli @ 110
Last I heard, he wasn’t. Sounds like Reid is all bark and no bite. About a month ago, he threatened to leave a skeleton staff, but he won’t back it up.
Ed*ard Teller @ 66
i am a buddhist and the communist chinese leadership are my enemies.
they kidnapped the Panchen Lama (as selected by the Dalai Lama and the other important Tibetan lamas) and his family and they have not been seen since.
he was six years old at the time.
then they chose their own Panchen Lama.
this puppet has Chinese owned followers.
Tibet will be a cultural, social, human tragedy for a long time.
Rupert Murdoch likes doing business with china.
Ed*ard Teller @ 66
Yeah, as Rick said wistfully, we’ll always have China, or something.
Petrocelli @ 110
If he had any sense, he’d set up a rotaion. I hope so, but I don’t know…
Ed*ard Teller @ 112
I’ve heard of the Orcas playing with the boats and letting people rub them. I hope you come to Toronto for that CBC production … I’ve got lots of great Beer waiting for you … *g*
montag @ 16
ouch!
Thanks CTuttle, right back at ya. Not new, but I lurk alot. Does the CT in tuttle signify nutmegger? If so we both voted for Ned.
Ed*ard Teller @ 66
Jeebus K. Christ.
No second coming either.
Party Poopers.
yellowdog jim @ 120
Ooh, Buddhist! Kewl!!! *g*
CTuttle @ 118
Hear hear!
Now hear this… credit meltdown alert…
Risk amplifiers going into oscillation!
(Poles in the left half plane did it)
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 113
yes
BigMitch @ 114
I could certainly be wrong. But I thought the big hurry with the vote tonight was so the house could go on recess. The senate recessed last nite. But, I could be wrong.
So did Machiavelli’s The Prince ever come out as a comic book thats the only way the dark lord could have ever explained to little boots the plan.
Petrocelli @ 123
Canadians and beer, oh dear! Does that bring on memories. Can’t wait.
BigMitch @ 78
Now that is just silly.
BigMitch @ 114
Yeah, but who’s watching that besides us?
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but “they” own the media and only “their” message is getting out to the masses.
Ed*ard Teller @ 101
Return to the scene of the crime?
1970cs @ 125
Nope, Charles, Charlie, Chuck, but, not Chas, nor, Up-Chuck!!! *g*
Rob Zuber @ 4
I just can’t believe this many democrats would vote this way unless they were bought off, or more likly, blackmailed.
argosfalcon @ 131
it was in coloring book format.
better to hold the attention.
sunshine @ 137
I think you’ve shone a ray of yourself on the Prob!!! ;-)
Ed*ard Teller @ 132
Memories of my family gatherings with that phrase. Uncles and grandpa out on family visits and in campgrounds during the summer. Beer in hand and lots of laughter while us kids ran ourselves out or decided we were tired and roasted marshemallows. hehe XD
so glad I quit eating beef a few years ago when we had our own scare. The controls are no longer in existance and fewer now than then. boy i still miss it but when news like the British madcow pops up again i am glad not to have to worry.
and Technicolouryawn at 100, are you serious? I have heard that put out before, but it has to be in jest more or less?
yellowdog jim @ 138
Or maybe it was a drinking game youthful days when all he did was fail at business, and dreamed for wrecking whole countries.
neokneme @ 128
If there is a crash, what will that paper money under the mattress be worth? And how much nutrition will I get from eating gold?
should be of not for.
argosfalcon @ 131
Ooh, pretty picture of a stiletto… Lookie, there…!!! ;-)
My senators and rep, Murray, Cantwell and Baird, all voted no on this FISA crap, but I’m still going to visit. Gotta impress how important it is to knock some sense into their fellow legislators.
CTuttle @ 136
How’s about that great Aussie shortening of Charles – Chikka. Or would you prefer me to say “G’day Chuckie!”
The leftwing bloggers need to take some responsibility in the passage of the FISA legislation. Instead of whooping it up, you should have been back in the trenches, whipping up the troops.
What is the purpose of the Kos Convention? Did you get nice pictures of yourselves, suitable for framing, with Hillary? Is she going to make a fried chicken dinner for you to rival the lunch Bill gave you, or is Hillary going to go low-fat, low carb?
While the leftwing netroots were, for the most part, offline this weekend, Bush and Rove made an assault with this FISA legislation and proved they can outsmart their enemies anytime they want. The mo’ is lost on Gonzales, as is the netroots credibility in having any influence on the masses.
Keep on stroking each other’s egos. The republic is lost, and the lefty blog lords and ladies are just pawns in the game.
wangdangdoodle @ 143
Dang, WangDang, that’s why I live in Hawai’i!!! 8-)
sunshine @ 137
It’s easy to blackmail most anyone when you have Total Information Awareness. Until yesterday, they had it illegally.
I just got to shake hands with Matt Stoller. Life is good. The new Netroots Nation will be STRONG!
wangdangdoodle @ 143
Supposedly, in a credit crunch, money is a good thing to have.
I just flamed the Salzar brothers. Asked them when they were going to pull a “Nighthorse” and make it official!
persiflage @ 147
Aah, G’day Sheila!!! How’s the weather down under??? *g*
In the 70’s I use to listen to the firesign theater, now I seem to be living in their albums, guess I’ll have another bearwizz beer and turn on howl of the wolf movies, theres an old porgy and muddhead movie on highschool madness.
argosfalcon @ 131
“My Pet Moat.”
Marty @ 149
I know, not supposed to feed…
However, after this horrific betrayal, where are we? Organizing. Stop and cry if you like. We’re not quitting.
Ed*ard Teller @ 132
… and Toronto is a multi- cultural quilt, each community professes their Beer to be the best … I guess we’ll just have to sample them all … *g*
wigwam @ 150
Alas, til yesterday…!!! 8-(
CTuttle @ 154
Actually quite nice in my part of it today. Sunny, about 70F, with a cool breeze. Definitely not wintery as it should be. Hopefully, more rain next week.
CTuttle @ 149
And why I’m looking for acreage here. Not near as pretty as your view, tho!
A thoughtful analysis of tonight’s FISA debacle from David Bromwich of Huffington Post…
persiflage @ 160
Whew, the rainiest city in the USA could certainly use a lot more! We’re barely above half our annual quota!!! I feel for ya!!!
wigwam @ 152
Hi wigwam, I am ignorant of these things, is a crunch not near as bad as a crash? I fear the worst, being a cynical old broad.
CNBC’s online video sucks, but I got the gist of Cramer’s freakout. Not comforting.
I wonder if that was why Bush was rushing these FISA changes. If he knows the shite’s gonna hit the fan in the economy, no one would give a rip about giving Gonzales more authority. It’d never get thru a congress dealing with an economic crisis.
Chikka says : Whew, the rainiest city in the USA could certainly use a lot more! We’re barely above half our annual quota!!! I feel for ya!!!
Persi replies: There’s only been one year in the past 20 that I’ve been here on our West Coast, that we’ve actually had above average rainfall. We’ve been in drought for the past 20 years, only the severity differs from year to year. For the past 5 years or so, the whole country has joined us in drought. Just about every Australian can tell you how full their dams are (Ours : 35%). So, welcome to the dry life.
Here’s a novel thought:
If the Constitution is just a “goddamn piece of paper”…..
so is their freaking illegal, contrived, ” Terrorist Surveillance Program.”
In fact, all of their claims are “BS”. You want to flush the government down the drain and drown it, Rove and Norquist, you cowards, well….just bring it on chickensh##t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZqEpUw6ilQ
For your dining and dancing pleasure.
persiflage @ 166
Perth, Persi??? ;-)
CTuttle @ 169
wangdangdoodle @ 164
As I understand it, a credit crunch reflects a lack of money available to loan out, which would happen say when the Chinese stop extending us credit. In such a situation, interest rates go way up. Or so I’m told.
KWSmith @ 54
Yep. This may be what the current stall/divert game is about.
Yes Chuck, Perth.
persiflage @ 170
How is Chikka pronounced?
CD @ 162
Dylan said it long ago:
There’s no success like failure,
And failure’s no success at all.
Marty @ 149
OK, from time to time I think that, in another world, I would have been a good spin doctor so let me have a go at this:
Wussy Bush terrified of netroots! Refuses to pee on Constitution until Kos and Friends are distracted!
BigMitch @ 10
Yes, and I left my response downstairs. Is this why so many Democrats are ignoring their oath of office?
Bob in HI
How is Chikka pronounced?
CHICKer
persiflage @ 176
So the economy falters and the present government is forced the scale back the war, because its creditors defund us?
persiflage @ 176
Brilliant, Persi …
persiflage @ 178
Kewl… another option…!!! *g*
I’m drawing a really awful looking clown with wet pants and labeling it with different names for the shrub…
it’s stupid, but it makes me feel much better.
TribeScribe @ 21
All the more reason to support the ACLU. They’re really carrying the fight on this for us.
Bob in HI
wigwam @ 171
Doesn’t sound like an ideal scenario. I just get this feeling that excrement is about to hit the rotating device.
The housing and credit situations are pretty bad, but please ignore Cramer. Just a couple of weeks ago he was shrieking the exact opposite tune just as loudly. Believe it or not, you might want to try, of all things, some blogs: I like to mention Calculated Risk and The BIg Picture as two where the bloggers, at least, keep a pretty cool head while helping to keep us informed. There are many other good ones, according to your interests.
A credit crunch is, roughly, when lenders don’t want to lend even to good credit risks. We seem to be getting there, what with so many lenders tightening their criteria lately, but then there’s been so much lending to dubious borrowers of all kinds in the last few years …
CTuttle @ 169
See…that is why I moved to Texas…Texas natural logic is that…if my Texas weather rock (a rock with a hole in it that is suspended from a tree) is wet, it is raining, if it is swinging, it is windy, if it is dry for a long period of time; and my plants are dried up, it is a drought. What is the problem with understanding that????? Don’t give me some electronical prediction crappola….:> Heh.
argosfalcon @ 180
Think about it, China turns in their chits…!!! The Waltons might be concerned about it!!! ;-)
Bob Schacht @ 184
Thanks, Bob. I’ve been dragging my feet on renewing my membership, but I will re-up tomorrow…
OldCoastie @ 183
Well guess its better than nothing, still wish I could hit (a political figure) with a nasty slipper or old shoe. But that would be wrong, They are the best government money can buy.
CTuttle @ 188
Fucking with the Waltons may not be in China’s interest. Who will they sell to?
It’s like Walt Disney said: If the bank loans you a thousand dollars, you have a creditor. If they lend you a million, you have a partner.
You know why Bush will not be Impeached? It’s the 41 Dino’s who voted against the Constitution. They should be tarred and feathered. Oh wait thats too good boiled in oil sounds better.
LS @ 187
Doh! Why didn’t I think of that?!!! 8-)
Thanks Petro! How’s life treating you?
OldCoastie @ 183
… and with that image, I bid you all goodnight …
That’s it, I’m going to bed. Not sure sleep is an option, but bed is. See ya tomorrow, fire pups.
User Loser @ 192
As Moderator, I am going to assume this is a hypothetical statement since threats of violence are not permitted at the Lake.
I had a brainstorm re: Congress rolling over on the FISA bill.
Let’s try to get EVERY LAST ONE who voted for the bill onto the NO FLY LIST. And then, let’s do that with all of the Bushies in the Dept of Justice, heck, in the entire administration.
Only when they experience a GROSS VIOLATION of their civil liberties will they perhaps begin to see the light!
(Now, how does one get put on the list….?)
I know this is not really do-able, but it was fun to think of all those Congresspeople, queued up at the airport after the last late session, desperately trying to get home for their summer break!
argosfalcon @ 190
I’m thinking my ugly clown with the wet pants might print up nicely on a postcard… boy, computers sure make things easy!
waving g’nite to all the sleepy pups
G’nite petro, sweet dreams.
Suzanne @ 197
Perish the thought Ma’am! We’re incapable of violence!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 188
It makes sense, why have an unnecessary conflict when you can just cut off their credit, and we can’t make anymore sub-prime loans. Nothing personal its just a credit rating thing.
And g’nite OtherWA.
CW @ 198
Don’t they decide who is on the list???
Petrocelli @ 195
Ooh, he snuck out the back door! He’s gonna get an earful tomorrow!!!
Suzanne, do you ever sleep?
now I’ve got words coming out of the shrub’s mouth that say things like, “of course I’m drunk!” and “he-he! terror! terror! terror!”
definitely good therapy!
‘nite, Petro…
wangdang, i do my best sleeping as the sun is just starting to come up – all those years of working patrol on the night shift.
old coastie – can i have some of whatever it is you got?
Without any hesitation, I urge everyone to give often and give big to the ACLU. However, there is not going to be any relief on the new surveillance violation act from the ACLU filing a lawsuit, nor anybody else for that matter.
In the first place, the statutory provisions will arguably only be “ripe” during the 6 month stated effective period; and that is not close to enough time to get the controversy to the Supreme Court, probably not even an en banc consideration by a Circuit Court of Appeals.
Secondly, no lawsuit will likely ever remain alive long enough to get there anyway. There is no plaintiff that can demonstrate sufficient standing to mount such a challenge. In ACLU v. NSA, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals held that in order to proceed with such a suit, teh plaintiff must affirmatively and specifically prove personal damage and harm from a violation of the President’s NSA Program. This effectively means there can be no legal challenge from a private individual since any application of the Terrorist Surveillance Program is strictly classified, it is impossible to establish that it was indeed applied to your detriment personally.
You might want to further thank your Congresscritters for so clearly informing you of these little facts, and protecting the public through a complete and thorough debate of all the implications. Well, OK; not really, but you should see that they are publicly crucified at the polls next election….
I got nothin’ but mad, but now I’m just gettin’ silly…
sigh – ok oc – can’t blame a girl for trying :)
China, or at least the deliberate financial policy of the Chinese gov., doesn’t figure in to our looming credit problems yet, though who isn’t worried that could happen. The bigger problem is that everyone, has been spooked by credit fallout from deflating housing bubbles here and abroad (UK, Australia, Spain, …)
The whole truth is a long way from being told —it’s slipping out in the same kind of late Friday night press releases, wrapped around rocks and thrown into the street from darkened windows, that we know from other spheres of activity. However, it appears that many large financial firms have already taken losses, and are trying to avoid more of them by moving rather suddenly back to credit policies from the dark ages of 1997 or so. In addition, the Chinese are indeed unsure whether they want to pile up their winnings revenues from U.S. sales in endless stores of mortgage-backed securities. However, the immediate problem now has more to do with standards and the willingness to lend in the opinion of many, than with the availability of funds compared to a few months ago, i.e. Cramer’s bellowing about the need to turn on some financial faucet (the Fed, perchance) is likely off-base for now.
now I’m envisioning 100,000 poorly drawn clown postcards arriving at the WH…
if the shrub doesn’t do shame, maybe mocking him would work.
OldCoastie @ 212
I’ll get there with ya!!! Escapism is escapism!!!
Its off to dreamland myself, oh to the mod. I have never hit anyone with a shoe, but there are times when I have been tempted to make intemperate remarks, I believe it was Mark Twain who said “never hit your sister with anything harder than a cat” there must be more of a story there but, thats for another time.
I’m sorry – but now everytime I hear clowns or clown car, I think back to Thursday(?) Late Nite about the family with all them kids… and another term comes to mind
OldCoastie @ 215
I’m up for mocking.
well I think the clown car comment was what got me started on the Stupid Bush Clown…
I do particularly like the addition of the wet pants… really puts a point on “idiot!”.
argosfalcon @ 217
sleep well, argo – i figured a shoe really wouldn’t do much harm – unless, of course, one was talking about a 7″ stiletto heel but that is a whole nutter story.
prostratedragon @ 214
Aah, the messages are being wrapped around bricks that are being heaved through well-lit Plate Glass of Businesses and personal residences!!! 8-(
If E.T. is still present… another R. Corrie controversy.
http://www.dailytidings.com/20…..corrie.php
‘nite, argo…
ct….
Suzanne @ 221
I hear egregious has some deadly shoes. :)
Suzanne @ 218
me too.
mrs. ydj doesn’t understand my interest in her clown car.
Nite, Sleepers!!!
Petrocelli @ 179
It’s not Bush we’re talking about. Bush will do whatever he wants to do.
It’s the Dems that vote with Bush. The netroots disorganization provided those Dems with cover.
Puhleeze, the netroots can keep telling themselves they’re making a difference, but getting a few Dems who vote with Bush whenever they have cover ain’t going to cut it.
I repeat, what was the necessity of a convention? On the last weekend that Congress was in session? If you don’t think that it came up when this vote was getting scheduled, you’re even greener at politics that a St. Patty’s day beer.
Suzanne @ 225
What’d I say???
sleep?
ha!
sleep, NAY!
sleep …
maybe …
sleep!
sorta …
okay, i’m going to go to sleep.
now.
Protect America Act of 2007
(Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by Senate)[S.1927.ES]
Library of Congress search bolded terms, select ES version
Blogging for Michigan (@KOS) asks this Qn:
What is meant by section 105B(2)?
`(2) the acquisition does not constitute electronic surveillance;
How is electronic surveillance defined?
—————————–
….And pups far and wide might also want to note:
`(m) A directive made or an order granted under this section shall be retained for a period of not less than 10 years from the date on which such directive or such order is made.’.
(italics mine)
so…anything ‘acquired’ in the next 6 months
will be retained for the next 10 years.
so be good for goodness sake –
CTuttle @ 230
You threw some bricks.
well, perhaps we should send all our representatives Stupid Bush Clown postcards… let ‘em know just how we feel about Dear Leader…
drawing him as a clown definitely diminishes his power… makes the foolish thug/bully much tinier…
CTuttle @ 230
scroll up
wangdangdoodle @ 233
I would have sprayed paint.
wangdangdoodle @ 233
*smack* that was a brick to the forehead! Honest!!!
‘nite, yellowdog
It all comes down to money. If you have it then you can spend it (or lend it). If you don’t have it then it has to be borrowed. If you can’t borrow it anymore then that is pretty much the end of the party. Everyone goes home and trys to figure out what to do next. Taking out the garbage may be the most sensible thing to do. Oh, and fire the executives that got us into this mess.
That should be job one of the highly pissed owners of what is fast becoming the train wreck of the so called ownership society. It is turning into a bag of poo for all social strata.
Credit really is the lifeblood of the economy and it may be China’s most strategic export. They can get a lot of leverage by holding the paper on our souls. They may want more than interest payments though. They may decide to say “We just purchased your share of Taiwan”.
yellowdog jim @ 231
g’nite Jim. Hasta manana.
g’nite ydj and anyone else i missed…
i’m gonna be heading out myself.. ya’ll wore me out with all your chatting.. dang, i think ya’ll set a new sat nite record for # of comments
catch ya tomorrow nite, same bat time, same bat channel
‘nite Suzanne… you want to leave the baton so we can give ct a whack now and then?
My congressman is on that List.
What one of his staffers has told me before when I railed against his weak votes: “Well, you know our district voted 54% for Bush.” That was in 2004!
There’s a lot of gas$$$ under the bridge and soldiers buried and jobs lost and houses foreclosed.
He does not get it.
OldCoastie @ 241
Water balloons!
coriolanus,
Thanks for the link. The article has numerous errors, but few reporters in large cities are up to the task, let alone fairly small – if well-educated – towns like Ashland. I’m thinking the anti-MNIRC forces are in for a fight on this one. Let’s hope so. The people who need to see “My Name is Rachel Corrie” the most are those who least feel they want to see it.
Good to see your presence here.
Aah, the messages are being wrapped around bricks that are being heaved through well-lit Plate Glass of Businesses and personal residences!!! 8-(
Oh, are those the same messages, or the replies? ;)
Over at CalcRisk they’ve started talking about the Friday night markdown session, i.e., the announcements at that time from the bond rating companies about which issues have gone from investment grade to, er, not. Also, really horrendous news like the AHM bankruptcy (a few 000 jobs lost right there) has tended to come out at, say, 10pm EST on Friday for the last few weeks.
Actually, whoever speculated that Bush might be worried about a possible financial implosion may have a point. Since I heard at the turn of the year about this mortgage-reset fiasco that the smart money has cooked up for us, I’ve wondered whether that’s one of the many angles that the USAtty stunts was meant to bounce off. The fired list corresponds pretty well to the toxic jumbo loan hotspots. But the USA scandal fits so many scenarios equally well.
OldCoastie @ 242
I would not leave ya unmoderated. The Lurking Mod is here.
Suzanne @ 241
But… but… who’s going to mind the store?
TribeScribe @ 232
Hmm, just occurred to me that they’re at it again with the legislation titles. “Protect” America? What did “protection” mean not all that long ago (as in “protection racket”)?
I wonder if they’ve been gathering information with which they can extort all sort of things from… legislators, citizens, campaign contributors…?
W’all, after all, they don’t call them the Bush Crime Family for nothing
Suzanne @ 235
Bricks would represent my crudest efforts, I’m a true pacifist till the situation gets out of hand! I own no firearms, will not allow one with kids around, yet, Uncle Sam taught me well!!!
Suzanne @ 241
Bon Nuit, Ma Cheri!!!
I paid attention, too.
OldCoastie @ 242
My goodness, I’m a lentil-stirrer!!!
newtonusr @ 244
Traitor!!! :P
So. Is there a video of Markos’ closing speach? I hear it was emotional. Moving, even.
I guess I better hit the hay…
now if I can just stop giggling at my really bad picture!
prostratedragon @ 246
You’re deadly accurate! We have not even really fully realized the snow job, and it’s full impact on the world’s markets, much less the US’s!!!
OldCoastie @ 256
Where’s the picture? I want to giggle at it too!
OldCoastie @ 183
I drew a Don’t Tread on Me flag. Didn’t make me feel much better; I’m thinking of a torch and pitchfork procession drawing. With the Capitol in the background.
newtonusr @ 157
Organizing? Organizing what? Your sock drawer?
Puhleeeze, turn the computer off, get off your ass and start civil disobedience actions. They, they being Repubs and Dems, love that you flap your gums here and pretend you’re making a difference when you should realize by now that every day that Bush remains in office, the noose around our civil liberties get tighter.
It was the marches we did in the 60s and 70s that turned the tide and ended the war. Nixon and the other pols were terrified as our numbers grew on the streets.
TURN THE COMPUTER OFF AND HIT THE STREETS!
OK, Pups – just so you know how you did tonight:
Since 8 pm Pacific, less than 5 hours, you have put up 806 comments.
So you’re in the fight.
Margot @ 259
try the clown… I swear – it helps!
‘nite all…
newton, we ARE the fight
:)
Marty @ 260
After the big Seattle demonstration in the wake of Kent State, traffic was tied up all over the city for eight hours. Walking back to my house on Capitol Hill, the streets were filled with returning demonstrators and people who had parked their cars and got out and walked. We passed our neighbor’s house. Mrs. Byrd was sipping sherry as we went past. She said something like “Mighty fine funeral march, honey.” I asked “whose funeral march, Mrs. Byrd?” She replied “Richard Nixon’s, you fool. Maybe not next week or next month, but it’s his funeral march.”
wangdangdoodle @ 255
He has posted a KOS front page blurb and
a link to the text of the speech.
wangdangdoodle @ 262
Seems to be! Nite, OC! I shall bid another fond adieu, Aloha Oe, Ya’ll!!!
Ed*ard Teller @ 263
Skippy.
TribeScribe @ 264
Thanks, Scribe!
wangdangdoodle @ 262
Marty, as wonderfully as he put it, has a point.
Once organizing turns into street, once we pay ’social calls’ on our critters, once they can’t miss us in their forums, we scare the shit out of them. Until every one of them knows that their votes count back home, we will not have really begun.
But please, no one lie down in traffic. Yet.
3 in the a.m. here, see y’all around noon tommorow!
Why not? I’ve already done that. I “died” in front of the Austin capitol.
wangdangdoodle @ 270
And thank you for that. nite wdd
I can’t sleep.
I really don’t get why (please bear with me), if Abu was up against it in the Senate, that Congress would give him more power as to personal Constitutional non-oversight rights? He’s a creep; a former Texas real estate lawyer who has no right, other than being full of schemes, to be in authority of anyone, much less America, the United States of. Aaaccccrrrrgggghhhhh.
newtonusr @ 271
For what it was worth. I hear rumors about a march Sept. 15. Will I see you in the streets?
mhpcr @ 272
Accccrrrrgggghhhhhaa – may be the first time I’ve sen that word, but it describes my feelings perfectly…
wangdangdoodle @ 273
In DC. Just like ‘05. Couldn’t keep me away.
ET, thanks. First time I ever used it. Sent my $5 to Diane…Alaska needs her. Thanks for making it known; and we need Alaska, in so many ways and more than we know.
newtonusr @ 275
I would love to be in DC , but it is too far to go. But we will do our part here in Austin, and I promise to take pictures (and maybe by then I’ll have a video camera)
I’m crashin’ guys…
Ed*ard Teller @ 43
Haven’t seen anything on where – am so late to the lake after giving a quick read scan of the address by Markos. YK may seque into an annual convention with a different name.
Waving to Suzanne across the bay!
Big News is the netroots, organized labor alliance.
Pray for Rain For The Iraqis, That God Took Pity When Man Would Not and Shame the Ones Who are Doing this Horror to the Iraqis and all of Us.
Suze – YHM :~)
saw this cartoon at DWT.
TribeScribe @ 282
Yup.
Excellent cartoon. I’m up for Sept. 15th in Austin, walker and all. I find throwing sponges at the TV is very therapeutic while causing little damage.
mhpcr @ 283
Chick Daney wouldn’t ‘ve said “oops”, he would’ve said “doesn’t matter. it’s only a piece of paper….”
You know why Bush will not be Impeached? It’s the 41 Dino’s who voted against the Constitution. They should be tarred and feathered. Oh wait thats too good boiled in oil sounds better.
The Senate was where this fight should have been won, specifically because only three of the Democrats who voted for it are up for reelection in 2008. With the calls for Alberto Gonzales’s impeachment so recently, there is no excuse for any Democrat whose seat wasn’t hanging in the balance to vote for it. This new FISA bill, known as the ‘Protection Act of 2007′ (the White House has no shame when it comes to naming these bills) never should have reared its ugly head in the House, where the members are up for reelection every two years.
What that tells us is that the yes-voters in the Senate really believe as they voted. Sure, they might have voted for it because they’re being blackmailed by the Bush administration, but now was the time to call Bush’s bluff – when they don’t have to face their constituents at the polls for at least four to six years. Four to six years is a long time to spin a good yarn.
I have the suspicion that the purpose of this legislation is so that Repubs go on vacation with their heads held high, and Dems with their heads hung low.
A compromise could have been worked out if both parties were dealing with legitimate concerns. Since this was not allowed to happen, the agenda was appearances.
turtleNS @ 287
Respectfully, I don’t think so.
The agenda was to get Bush legal, and with extraordinary powers which he could say Congress, both sides of the aisle yet, had bestowed on him.
The catchphrase of the day seems to be, “Once basic rights are taken away, they are very hard to get back.” History tells us that’s true. We didn’t lose our fourth amendment rights for “appearances.”
Bush and Cheney are as serious as a heart attack; they play for keeps. Our Democratic representatives aren’t up to the task of pushing back and taking them seriously. On days like today, I can’t shake the mental image of Democrats curling themselves up in fetal position in their Capitol offices, hoping if they keep their eyes closed long enough and if they wish hard enough, when they open their eyes Bush will have gone away.
When I hear Nancy Pelosi saying, as recently as yesterday, that impeachment will tear the country apart, I wonder how she’s become so insulated that she doesn’t realize that the country is already torn apart, Bush has put the Constitution through a paper shredder, and unless Democrats do something, and soon, there will be little left to salvage.
Bush’s plan, conservatives’ plan, has always been to bankrupt the nation so that there won’t be any money for any government services. Conservatives will realize their dream of privatizing everything, selling off America’s resources and infrastructure to foreign concerns. We’ve had a glimpse of that this week, with the bridge collapse in Minnesota, and the sorry state of our crumbling infrastructure.
Bush gets to keep us talking about this FISA bill and our lost rights as his fellow Republicans proceed to sell America’s assets. Before very long, we will be like the undeveloped countries we meddled in and stole resources from, and whose dissenters we trained death squads to kill.
So, no, I don’t think appearances have much to do with what’s happened. But I could be wrong.
BigMitch @ 78
Carry into the gates of hell? Maybe ;-)
Marty @ 148
I’ve seen a lot of Concerntrolls the last few days. People who didn’t realize that the folks at FDL live blogged the Senate debates and constantly harangued those at FDL to call their Senators and Reps.
Someone who was on the site and rousing the troops to battle would have known that.
Seems you are new to this…or do you have other intentions?
Good morning, pups. The NYT today has Stanley Fish and Frank Rich. Mr. Fish apparently had a bad time at some super-mega-coffee-mart (maybe the one from Seattle) and yearns for the days when you could sit down, order a cup of coffee, and have it brought to you. Frank Rich writes about the super-patriots who love the troops to death.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
The coffee and tea are ready, and the blueberry muffins are out of the oven. Have a great day, and please remember — don’t feed the trolls.
Good morning! A new day. Pick up the sword and go out there again.
Marty @ 229
To be honest, it was unfortunate timing…which actually occurred because Bush had his prior FISA-free Program rejected by the courts. Tghus he demanded that Congress pass a law that bandaged it all up.
I don’t think Congress, the Netroots or anyone else expected this. And to be quite obvious…Congress WAS scheduled to shut down on Thursday. DKos was scheduled for the weekend after Congress recessed.
That being said, FDL and Kos actually worked IMO VERY HARD to oppose the bill, and the fact that many regulars may have checked in simply due to the Convention and the blogs on that event may have led to even more people contacting their Congresspeople.
There were repeated posts on the FISA, the votes upcoming in the Senate and House, and giving phone numbers of key legislators who, quite frankly, had their mailboxes full. It’s not as if FDL and Kos shut down.
How precisely do you think that more could have been done by bloggers sitting at home then at the dKos Convention? Do you think that they could have put up MORE blogs on the topics than they did? More phone numbers?
Do you have any CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions?
The problems were NOT that people were in Chicago at the dKos Convention…it’s because many of the Blue Dogs are likely just as disparaging about the political influence of blogs as many right-wing “pundits”. And perhaps, in their districts, they don’t see much impact. Perhaps that is a project for long-term development, but that’s not gonna be solved in three or four days.
Perhaps you could fashion your own blog and do what the others on the left have failed, in your eyes, to do. But I’m not sure what that would be.
TribeScribe @ 232
I read the latter as saying that the “record” for the surveillance has to be retained for 10 years…it can’t be HIDDEN that the surveillance occurred. It doesn’t mean the surveillance can continue for 10 years.
cinnamonape @ 293 –
we have kinda sucked at watchdogging the dems in congress and holding them accountable these last few months. i’m blaming myself here.
don’t have any immediately constructive ideas… but am trying to think what to do next. first step is identifying there is a problem.
I am sorry to hear that FDL is mixing it up with Foundations. I don’t trust Foundations even a little bit.
First thing Foundations do is leverage their fucken money into power positions so as to forever promote and protect their agenda within the host organization.
Keeping Foundations at arm’s length isn’t nearly far enough.
wangdangdoodle @ 143
Best to invest in one’s local micro farmers,CSAs,and learning to grow and preserve your own food. One of THE dumbest things Americans ever allowed to happen was corporate control of our nation’s food supply. It’s not as hard to do as you might think either. Lots of us are out here doing it,what’s missing is the networking to bring us all together.
I read somewhere awhile back about a horrific blizzard that hit NYC in the early 1900’s. It wasn’t the snow and freezing that killed the most people,it was starvation since supplies couldn’t get into the city and no one could leave. Think about where you live,what would happen to food supplies in the event of a natural disaster,terrorist attack,disease outbreak or a grid crash? Stores empty out pretty quick,then what?
This is a matter of national security. Some parts of the country get it,while others(like metro Atlanta)don’t. We need to bring back the Victory Garden concept,along with other such networks. This could also help heal some community rifts,working and eating together can bridge differences.
Blog & Yearly Kos Talk on CSPAN1 with Byron York
Here is the list of DINO’s voting for the Senate FISA bill in the House last night. Let’s start the analysis of who’s vulnerable to a primary challange.
Altmire
Barrow
Bean
Boren
Boswell
Boyd (FL)
Carney
Chandler
Cooper
Costa
Cramer
Cuellar
Davis (AL)
Davis, Lincoln
Donnelly
Edwards
Ellsworth
Etheridge
Gordon
Herseth Sandlin
Higgins
Hill
Lampson
Lipinski
Marshall
Matheson
McIntyre
Melancon
Mitchell
Peterson (MN)
Pomeroy
Rodriguez
Ross
Salazar
Shuler
Snyder
Space
Tanner
Taylor
Walz (MN)
Wilson (OH)
Of that list,who was newly elected and who has been around for awhile? I ask because I’d be interested in knowing where experience and years in that seat fits into the why of this ridiculous vote.
Morning all.
Really ticking me (and everyone else)off is that some of the traitors are netroots candidates. Well, so be it. If anything was proven by Lamont’s nomination it’s that the netroots have power in primary elections. I stayed home last election and worked for my local candidate. He’s been a true dem. Next year, I’ll travel to work against some of these people.
Byron says media is unfairly attacking wives of Republican candidates, being nice to Elizibeth Edwards. Unfair bias to Dems.
nonplussed @ 303
Byron wonders why the attacks on candidates wives are only focused on the gop side of the aisle. f’ing hello!!!! who attacked hrc AND chelsea??
Now we’re on to the blogs. After CSPAN helps caller legitimize O’Rly and Hannity, byron points out that the hate on the left blogs is giving ammo to the right. Caller points out that KOS has pictures of Bush having sex with animals and Lieberman pulling down chimpy’s pants.
Goopers have the luxury of pointing out evil stuff that appears on left blogs – and they get the air time to do so. Dems willingly only defend the left blogs- on the rare occasion they get air time – instead of pointing out the true racism and hate on the right side of the blogosphere.
Byron backs into the point that Gooper talk radio hosts are not responsible for what their callers say. On the other hand, bloggers are responsible for everything that appears on their blogs – including comments.
Totally off topic but relates to a previous post “Put Down the Shovel”by Jane.
I’ve been too busy lately to comment at all but I would be grateful if you would grant me the liberty to make some observations as a total outsider.
Youse r nuts to let being framed as Wesley Clark pointed out very poignantly at YKos – you are following the stooges rather than shaping the frame of the debate that needs to happen.
Obama wants to go into Pakistan. Well, a little bit of history wouldn’t come amiss re this option because its s**t f***ing nuts.
The Taliban comes from the Pakhtun tribal lands straddling Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Pakhtuns are the largest tribal group in the world and constitute 2% of Pakistan’s population of 167m. The Brits devised the Durand Line which split the Pakhtun tribal lands between two countries. The Pakhtuns have never accepted this. The Taliban was created through the Wahhabi intransigent doctrine pushed through Saudi funded madrassas, armed by the CIA with moneys chanelled through Pakistan’s ISI.
The Pakhtuns have never tolerated foreign occupiers – ask the Brits – they should know – they lost three wars against them, including one that spared a lone survivor out of a whole batallion to report back of the ignominy.
The Sauds are staunch American allies – never mind that 19 of them were directly involved in the 9/11 mayhem.
The Pakhtuns and the Talibs have never been to Iraq and most had never heard of Iraq until perhaps six years ago.
Pakistan is largely a secular society that would prefer a democracy to a military dictatorship but US monies keep propping up that which they do not want and that which preserves its power base by undermining civic social infrastructure and using religion as a tool to ensure the country never emerges from an emergency war footing.
Obama wants to boost the the army to go into Pakistan? Crazy – he thinks he will create history that overwrites the last 300 years? That’s just another disaster waiting to happen apart from the fact that it’s likely to convert 160m secular muslims to radical anti-Americanism. How is that going to keep you safe from ‘terrorists’?
‘Actionable’ intelligence is the qualifying baseline for Obama….but you had all the intelligence to prepare for 9/11 in anticipation of existing intelligence but didn’t have the wits to prevent it
HRC says nukes are not off the ‘table’. Hang on there, what’s that going to achieve beyond killing heaps of people and poisoning the food chain for generations? ‘Terrorists’ are not going to go away – you simply cannot nuke them all.
In all this insanity, Kucinich is a lone voice of sanity – unAmerican to Americans but to the world he suggests that the notion of a sane American is not an oxymoron.
I started this rant because I despair of the US electorate’s capacity to ‘elect’ any President with a modicum of political wisdom.
You eschew storming the Bastille while your vaunted democracy gets hijacked that would put Hitler and Stalin to shame.
It is time to shrug off the MSM framing of issues – you have a very large international audience and you have already reshaped the media dynamic so much so that no respectably professional journalist will ignore what the FDL/NH/TPM has to say – in that order.
After three disastrous defeats in Korea, Vietnam and Iraq, it is time enough to clear that vaunted ‘table’ and have options that make sense and restore national pride. The Flag be damned, where is your Constitution?
Webb issued a statement on why he voted the way he did. Not good enough. Paraphrased…he’s scared and he’s trying to protect us.
Sunday Talking Head Thread
“If you want total security, go to prison. There you’re fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking… is freedom.” Dwight David Eisenhower
Blue Dog Democrats are a major disappointment with the way they have caved in to the Bush machine. They need to be challenged and to speak up for the Constitution. They are buying into the huber fear atmosphere spread by this administration to strip away privacy rights. Ms. Jackson is telling the truth and shame on other colleagues for not heeding her words.
Maybe it’s time for a reality check, but what the hell is Nancy Pelosi smoking? Now she writes to Conyers after the fact, asking for the bill to be amended because she just happens to think that a few Americans might just be pissed off enough to throw the entire bunch of these clowns out of office. Give me a F*$^&% break. If she truely felt that way, then why the hell didn’t she do something about it before this piece of shit bill had left the Senate.
As I said last eveing on another thread. It’s time to send a very pointed an clear message to both the Republicans and especially the Democrats” NOT ONE PENNY MORE” for any candidate or party that continues to throw our Constitution under the bus. NOT ONE PENNY MORE!
Screw the magnetic yellow ribbons. It’s time for a change. Start placing stickers on your cars calling for us to return to Constitutional law. Put it on T-shirts, pencils, pens, but get the word out that America is WE THE PEOPLE and we won’t have our country sold out from under us for some secret agenda!
The Dem leadership needs to be replaced for allowing this travesty and rape of our Constitution to come to a vote
I’ve never given money before to a candidate, I can’t afford it, but so help me God, if Cindy Sheehan runs against Pelosi, I’m tossing money Cindy’s way
Until the Dems start listening more to the Feingolds of the party, and less to the Feinstein’s of the party, until the Dems start telling the Blue Dogs, as opposed to the numerically superior liberal bloc, to take a hike for a change, I will do everything I can-however limited it is-to make the Dems pay for their political cowardice, and seeing as how those W Buckaroo lackey Dems fear a massively unpopular and politically isolated President more than their own leadership-Rahm Emanuel-it’s obvious the Dems need a major change in leadership-I’m still willing to cut Dean a break, but only if the Dems impeach Gonzales and zero-out ALL Executive branch funding
And for those still trying to spin for the Dems complete cave-in on this issue, you better understand, that the Dems, come September, will once again roll over for W and whimper for mercy when Petraeus issues that BS called a “Progress Report”
It’s bad enough that the Dems gave ANY expanded powers to Gonzales, and even worse that W gets to use our Constitution as toilet paper, but one President with these unchecked powers is more than enough, no more should EVER have these powers
By waving the white flag of surrender to the bin Laden currently occupying our White House, the Dems certainly have enabled the terrorists in this Administration who truly do “hate our freedoms”
So fine, I can’t do anything about the Dems clear cowardice in joining with W to rape our Constitution, but I CAN call those worthless Dems who couldn’t wait to be faithful W Buckaroos
And I plan on saying “al-Qaeda” & “Usama bin Laden” when I make those calls, after all, shouldn’t the first ones to get warrantlessly spied on with this claptrap be the very same quislings who enabled it in the first place?
Hey it was late and I was worked up but I do think that some violence to their mailboxes is order at the very least.
Now I understand why Nancy Off the Table took it off the Table. If there are 41 Dems that would vote for this thing there are 41 Dems that wouldn’t vote for Impeachment.
Still think we ought to get a vote so we know who to blame, but what the Hell.
The new protocol for telephone calls is:
“Hello, this is xxxxx calling you about xxxxx. Good morning Mr. Gonzales.” And if anyone doesn’t understand you and asks, “Who is Mr. Gonzales?”, you know what to do.
And the new protocol for emails is to copy Alberto Gonzales to save him the trouble of going to the NSA.
Someone who is more knowledgeable of text messaging that this geezer needs to invent the protocol for text messaging.
cinnamonape @ 295
we agree. i.e., anything hoovered up within the next 6mos timeframe
will be kept (retained) for 10 years. the surveillance itself may not continue,
but the “record” will stand in extended perpetuity for anyone wanting to
review it for content.
The gutting of FISA by the Bushites is like Bush’s troop surge in Iraq.
Next month, Gen. Petraeus will testify before Congress about how swell the troop surge has worked, while downplaying or not mentioning at all any of the negatives.
The passage of this FISA-gutting legislation is to be reviewed in six months. Any Bushite testifying before Congress at that time will say how swell things have worked with their increased spying capabilities, but when asked for specifics to prove it, they’ll say that that information is classified and can’t be divulged in an open committee meeting, but can only be talked about behind closed doors…with everyone being briefed behind closed doors sworn to secrecy. And no one in Congress (whether Republican or Democrat) will be able to verfiy anything the fascist-Republican Bushites claim, whether in public or private.
I fear for our republic. The fascist-Republican Bushites (and some of their Democrat enablers) have done more damage to our democracy than a thousand attacks by al Qaeda could possibly ever do.
(Note: Democratic versus Democrat. The Democratic Party contains IC, because these true, blue patriots do C, while the Democrat Blud Dogs are missing the IC, because these enablers of the power-mad fascist Republicans don’t C.)
wigwam @ 171
Hmmm, how to explain…
In the circle of cash flow from banks to businesses to individuals and back to businesses and banks and government there is a necessary amount of hard cash and (especially these days) a lot of credit. The cash may be pretty steady, but the credit fluctuates as needed by the economic activity using it.
When an industry dealing in loans and interest rates experiences problems, then everybody knows things have gotten out of kilter and that there isn’t enough cash flowing through the circle to individuals who would like to pay off their mortgages, but can’t.
What happens then?
Mortgages are seen as too risky and businesses which offer them raise their interest rate to compensate. Then, if some go bust they still make sufficient money off the other good loans.
But, …
Raising interest rates (the credit crunch) makes it harder for people to buy on credit and that (sort of artificially) forces a slowdown in economic activity.
So, if things slow and other kinds of businesses become involved, then there may be less money going to individuals. It can become a spiraling effect that becomes magnified, rather than being dampened by Fed Board easing on interest rates or government action.
One good thing is the recent minimum wage increase forces business to put more money in people’s pockets. That helps to keep the cash flow circle going.
Watching Maria Bartiromo (corporate voice) on t.v. the other day she said she didn’t think this would ripple out to other sectors of the economy. Who knows there’s a slim chance she’s right. We’ll see.
Curiously, she also said she didn’t think John Edwards was “too far to the Left” for Wall Street.