Some newsy bits from Chicago:
TRex was out late last night, and looked like it. I tried not to ask questions.
The Presidential Forum turned into a bit of a rollicking affair. Did y’all watch it? I sat with Christy and Digby and Taylor Marsh. It’s hard to know what nugget to pull out, but this time, at least, there was some give and take exchange among the candidates and some live, spontaneous disagreement over substantive issues.
I spent a lot of this morning talking with immigration coalition people, from the foundations world and from labor, about how to change the national conversation in favor of real human rights through contemporary media and the blogs. This is an organizing issue, and hopefully, it may begin to be addressed.
I’ve met a bunch of members of our community and it’s been really fun to hear people say hello, stop me as I’m walking around, and even pronounce my nickname right (”Pach” rhymes with “watch.”)
Duncan is laughing at me for having to get a post up because we’re late. He just sat down next to me and is looking, as always, sly smarter than me.
What’s on your minds this afternoon?
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whoa
segundo…
I was watching the Cubs wondering if ya’ll were wet?
Hi, Pach. The thing on my mind most is this FISA debacle. I’m not sure what we can do about it.
fisa.
c-span has been on all day. waiting to see if the house will block or cave.
glenn has a great post on this: Democrats’ responsibility for Bush radicalism
Hi Pach, I’m glad that FDL is well represented at YKos with you, Jane, Christy, TRex, and all of the pups who were able to attend. Sounds like everyone is having a great time!
“Al Qaeda is not going on vacation this month,” said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky. “And we can’t, either, until we know we’ve done our duty to the American people.”
Spanish men and their bodies. I may be going to Spain so I’m cruising men. It’s a nice distraction.
What’s on my mind? FISA.
FISA
Impeachment
Rule of Law
damn, I wish I was there.
I wish Congress couldn’t leave unless the troops could. Maybe if they had to stay they would figure they might as well fight for something.
I gotta go with the FISA concerns. I’m feeling a bit like Charlie Brown after Lucy takes the football away again for the kabillionth time.
Though I have been having a nice time this afternoon making bread and butter pickles with a surplus of cukes from the garden and some Vidalia onions. I’m so proud of myself,lol,all my jars have sealed with a nice little “pop!”noise.
looseheadprop @ 10
Ditto. Plus whether we really are getting the government we deserve.
Cujo359 @ 14
I’m afraid we are.
As for Iraq, We sent our guys on the wrong mission and now a bunch of them are dead and a bunch more are dying. We won’t win anything but the booby prize for that.
Daddy Bush’s simian scion can’t speak, read, or understand the English language when it comes to adding up the bill. This is one bill the poor can never pay. It is the bill of 515 years of trying to dominate anyone who isn’t the same. Now, nobody wins and everbody loses.
The problem is that rich folks have more to lose and they’re not going to like seeing their investment base turn to dust in front of their eyes. Come-uppance now comes in the form of deflation. And you thought inflation was bad…
Welcome to the American Economic Crisis of 2007.
Hope y’all have lots of popcorn. It’s what’s for dinner.
Pach! (rhymed with “watch”)
Angry.
Just in my neck o’ woods:
–a bridge fell down
–Pickles came to visit
–MR. Pickles came to visit
–My frosh Sen. Klobuchar voted with my Sr. Sen. Coleman on FISA. (Calling Senator-to-be Franken…)
And then there’s the national fuckery. Angry.
This is pretty interesting, sounds like a bunch o’ squares. From the New Yorker via Daily Kos:
emerald @ 15
See,I don’t think so. I don’t deserve this crap,none of us do. Except that diehard authoritarian buncha spiteful asshats that make up about 25 percent of adult people who actually vote for fascism.
Watching YKos coverage has been great, but it needs more Jane. :)
I just checked again. There’s still no roll call up for the FISA-gutting vote at the senate.gov site, nor the vote for adjournment.
So when is FISA gonna be hashed out in the House???
The senate bill appears clearly to allow bypassing the FISA court if JUST ONE of the parties to the conversation is reasonably (ha, ha) believed to be outside the U.S.
Except there’s no ha ha about it.
Dems in the House better understand that it’s the Fourth Amendment that’s on the line.
raven @ 18 —
Interesting, indeed. Don’t you just love being one of the whacked-out dirty-hippie libs?
Where’d that come from, anyway? Thanks.
FISA. Wishing I was in Chicago with y’all. Trying to teach myself bass so I can play with my 10-year-old son who is a kick-*ss drummer. Embarrassed at being a beginner on an instrument when I’ve been proficient on my own axe (keyboards) for 30 years. FISA. Enabling Democrats who have the power to slow this crazy train down and won’t do it. FISA.
Re: FISA
It’s really has people pissed for good reason.
It’s astonishing how immediately the Senate Democrats became marionnettes for the imperial tyrant.
I was just chatting a little bit ago with Atrios and Glenn Greenwald and Sam Seder about this, and we were all stunned with how quickly this came together, and what a total fucking disaster it is.
Will finish writing up Howard Dean’s keynote speech after dinner. Here’s what I’ve got so far:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
anangryoldbroad @ 19
You may not personally deserve this government, but it only takes 25% of the people to run everything. That’s because about 60% do nothing and couldn’t possibly care less.
Did anyone catch Turley on KO? He beautifully described FISA as already running around the Constitution, so doing a run-around of FISA is particularly absurd, constitutionally speaking.
CTuttle @ 22
Just looked at the House schedule. According to it, there is nothing scheduled for today.
CTuttle @ 22
i don’t know. it’s on hoyer’s daily leader schedule for today.
Pachacutec @ 26
Yes. If ever there was time for a little creative stonewalling, this was it. I don’t understand the need for this indecent haste.
after this fisa thing i am starting to wonder what the point is. it is becomming obvious to me that we are spinning our wheels.
i cant get excited about “our side” anymore.
Nola Sue @ 24
Sorry, it’s here you have to scroll down.
It was important to me to let my freak flag fly. After 3 years in the Green Machine I didn’t get a haircut for 6 years. Seems trite now but it wasn’t then.
I’m actually in this picture from Operation Dewey Canyon III, I found it almost 30 years to the day
Dewey
selise @ 31
Pull a Delay Tactic and cram it in at Midnite of the midsummer break!!! Slick!!! :-(
YK2 prez panel highlight for me: Edwards’ double issue of his challenge to others not to take lobbyist contributions. (Obama doesn’t either.) Hillary lied by telling us that lobbyists have never influenced her. Skepticism was duly expressed.
This is one of my most important issues, since it influences so much of everything else that’s important.
c-span has Hoyer debating Joe Barton (r-tx) about some energy bill, i think.
where is FISA?
dexx @ 33
As bad as it is, we are building power, we have begun to change the direction of the country as seen in 2006, and we have some presidential candidates who really get this stuff.
I always, always said on the blog this would have to be a long effort of attrition, and politicians don’t do what we want because they’re nice people (if they are), but because we organize and kick some ass.
I’m for more organizing and ass kicking.
By the way, that’s my shitty laptop up there, as I was writing this post.
How postmodern meta is that?
Pachacutec @ 26
not the first time pach.
the mca was pretty bad – but we were told that things would be different if we all worked really, really hard to get dems elected to congress.
since then we’ve had the capitulation on the iraq escalation, a secret trade deal with bush, h.con.r.21 and s.amdt.2073, lots of mostly lousy oversight hearings (and i know, because i’ve been watchin), lousy communication… and i’m too pissed off to keep adding to the list.
is there any interest among the bloggers you’re meeting with to take some action to hold the dems accountable? i’m sick at heart and seriously in doubt about our direction. do i need to go back to social movement / street politics instead of electoral / lobbying politics?
serious crisis happening here… and it’s not just fisa – it’s been building for several months.
Pachacutec @ 39
Borrow Trex’s mac!
Any statements on:
Unitary Executive?
FISA?
Government secrecy?
Checks and balances?
anangryoldbroad @ 13
Lucy and Charlie Brown again is right.
What kind of jars make a pop? I used Ball Mason jars and though they sucked down concavely there was
no pop.
I’m for some sort of organized netroots response to candidates who voted for W’s FISA, to let them know how PO’d we are & that we’ll find a better candidate next time.
It doesn’t seem to matter who I vote for. Once they are in office they all vote the same way. It seems like someone gets them in a “top secrect” briefing and tells them that the American Constituion is going to cause us all to be killed in the most horrible way possible. And they seem to believe it.
FISA.
What our senators and reps are doing is showing utter disregard for us, and for the Constitution.
I wonder if it will become against the law to follow the Constitution? Have we devolved that far?
We know who the old guard leaders within the Dems in Congress are whom we have to overcome. Emanuel. Hoyer. Reid. Schumer. Clinton. This is not news. Just because we did not complete that effort in 2006, as I’ve said many times, is not cause for surrender. There was no way to complete it in 2006 and I said so even before the election.
Deep breath, deep breath.
Pachacutec @ 38
I’m with dexx. There is no point because no matter how many phonecalls, emails, faxes you send, no matter how many “progressives” you help put into place (like traitor Jim Webb) you get them ALL caving in on FISA and warrantless spying. In EVERY SINGLE CASE, the Dems have collapsed, absolutely, on issues of Constitutional importance; on matters of fundamental importance to the Rule of Law and balance of powers. Every. Single. Time.
They also, EVERY SINGLE TIME, cave in on judicial nominees. The DEMS gave us Alito and Roberts on the court. The DEMS are giving us Southwick. The Dems are coring out the heart of this country just as quickly as the GOP.
Speaking of bad days, Pickering is on C-SPAN2.
I am beginning to feel like I have battered wife syndrome. They keep promising it will be different this time and I’m too afraid to leave.
hackworth @ 43
I’m using the regular old fashioned mason jars,with the thin metal lids that have rubber seals. As the jars cool,they make a little pop sound that lets you know the jar has sealed. When you break the seal,it’ll make that same little pop noise.
Hi Pach
Thanks for your 2nd line re Trex; I enjoyed laughing out loud!
I am totally puzzled why this illegal wire-tapping had to be authorized by Congress right now. And extended in scope! Welcome to the land of Oz, I guess …
Praedor Atrebates @ 48
Jim Webb is exactly who he always was and anyone that thought he was anything but a right-wing, Naval Academy, Marine Coprs officer was dreaming. He’s better than Allen but that’s about it.
emerald @ 50
Even better than my “date rape” analogy earlier today.
Okay! C-1 announced that two more motions are to be Debated/Voted for the Energy Bill, then Def Appropriations Bill will be D/V’ed on and then, FISA! Afterwards an Emergency Appropriation for Minn. wraps up the evening festivities! Pass the Popcorn!!! *g*
I have had CSpan on all day. It seems htat the FISA bill may become the very last thing the House considers before the break.
Reps are screaming about that in the hallway press conferences.
I don’t know whether is tis good or bad that FIAS is last.
Som memebers of the House are talking as thought they will have to come back tomorrow to debate FISA.
This is SOMEBODY’s procedural manuever, but I don’t yet “get” what going on.
The imporatant thaing to not e is we have had a full extra day to telephone and email. SO, pups–if you haven’t done it yet, you still have time.
Flood the House with your contacts.
FYI, late last night the Senate adjourned until September 4th.
[Harry Reid took the time to praise Sheldon Whitehouse - who was about to gavel the session to a close in the President’s Chair - saying he was “the talk of the Judiciary Committee” for working like a dog on the (presumably) Rockefeller/Levin FISA bill and overall FISA issue “past midnight” and with great dedication. Too bad Whitehouse’s caucus prefers the venal character of Dick Cheney to the high ethical standards and compassionate competence of their colleague Senator Whitehouse. The vote on McConnell/Bond was obviously ARRANGED to reach 60 and therefore passage - it was no accident of fate from the Democrats overseen by Reid and Durbin.]
House FAX Numbers:
Nancy Pelosi = 202-225-8259
Steny Hoyer = 202-225-4300
Rahm Emanuel = 202-225-5603
James Clyburn = 202-225-2313
Jane Harman (Intelligence Committee) = 202-226-7290
Alcee Hastings (Intelligence Committee) = 202-225-1171
Also, FYI, Nancy Pelosi flat out stated twice yesteday (once in a news conference, once on the House floor) that letting oversight of this unConstitutional spying (that an amended FISAct would “allow”) to remain in the Executive Branch rather than the Judicial Branch is “unacceptable” (I believe she used that word – Cheney’s favorite) on Constitutional principle. If her word is her bond, no FISA bill that leaves oversight to the DNI and/or the AG ought to make it to the floor of the House.
This is Nancy Pelosi’s chance to put the Democratic Party and the House of Representatives on the map as defenders of our Constitution and of the rights and personal liberty of we the people that it exists to protect. Or to help hasten the end of our Republic.
P.S. Bearing sunny’s wise caveat from two threads back in mind, of course:
P.P.S. Bless Debra Bowen.
Alicia @ 25
Bass guitar can be difficult for even a seasoned keyboardist to gain proficiency. You would do better with a keyboard bass. Better still, would be to stick with the keyboard and play bass pedals with them. Then you would have a complete sound with just the two of you.
Pachacutec @ 38
but pach, we’re not kicking ass. last year we were organizing in support of feingold’s censure resolution and lamont’s campaign. this year the dems are in the majority and we’re doing virtually nothing to hold them accountable for their bad actions (and possibly bad faith).
i think glenn was right when a couple of weeks ago he answered a commenter in one of his threads:
i am completely unwilling to work to elect dems if this is what we are going to tolerate without a fight.
emerald @ 28
Until it gets so bad they actually vote once and then when that doesn’t cure all problems overnight, they moan that it’s no use, we need a third party, or something worse… Rove’s useful idiots.
Pachacutec @ 38
many’s the time that it is not about the excitement.
my fav nba heroes (SA Spurs) call it
“Pounding the Rock“:
you keep after your effort toward your goal, no matter that you can not perceive any progress.
you continue and maintain the pressure and persist in the exertion;
you keep after your goal,
no matter how futile it may seem.
BECAUSE
although you have swung the sledge hammer untold millions of times and the rock shows Not so much as a scratch …
It is the next blow that shatters the boulder into gravel.
we must keep pounding the rock.
The thing that pisses me off about the whole FISA madness is that King Dipshit already HAS all the damned legal authority he ever would need to “find the terrorists”. Why in hell’s half acre the Dems are caving here is a completely baffling thing. At the moment,the only things that make sense are that they are all being blackmailed(from stuff gained from this warrentless wiretapping and god knows what else),or they’re complicit and don’t care ‘cuz they got theirs and screw everyone else. I don’t know what else to think.
anangryoldbroad @ 62
Maybe because it’s all bullshit?
Well yeah Raven,there’s that too,lol.
Pachacutec @ 39
Get out your Derida-head screwdriver and go for some deconstructionalism!
raven @ 53
Hey, Raven.
I’ve been giving a little via Blue America’s donation site. Am I a fool for this?
pow wow @ 57
Or making it impossible to reconcile the two versions? Thus leaving without passing the legislation? Just a thought. Not that I know a damn thing about American legislative processes, other than that they are at least as inscrutable as cricket.
eCAHNomics @ 44
Hear, hear!
raven @ 63
I think it is just meant as a final statement the Bush/and the 4th Branch of government are in charge and Congress his no right or reponsibility for any oversight. In other words, the consolidation of power is complete at the banging of the final gavel.
Can’t wait for Keith’s Special Comment … he’s gotta have one for Monday right?
On another note: can someone please tell me what the difference is between Democrats and Republicans other than the fact that the Republicans are the ones who are at least able to tell Chimpenfeuhrer “no” once in awhile?
Regarding what we deserve, I just left this at my blog. This is all of the article, no need to click anything:
http://cujo359.blogspot.com/20…..r-day.html
Love to stay and chat, but duty calls …
raven @ 53
Yes, and Kerry was a no-show (non-vote). WTF!!!
Hi Pach,
Through the miracle of Second Life and the web stream, I was able to watch the breakout sessions with Clinton, Obamma, and Edwards. Here is my impression of those three :
1. Hillary was impressive and casual. She’s become a good campaigner (but she still doesn’t have my vote).
2. Obamma was boring and un-engaging in his session. At least that is how it seemed over the web.
3. Edwards rocked. He was the mose charismatic and had the best audience reaction.
What was the sense of the people that were there?
hackworth @ 58
It’s a challenge – I’ve always wanted to play bass and this is a great incentive. Besides, as a teacher it’s good to know what it feels like to be starting at the beginning. I’ve been playing my axe so long that I don’t even have to think about it any more – it goes right from my head to my hands. Puts me into my students’ shoes, which is never a bad thing.
Pachacutec @ 47
pach – it’s not just these jerks (although i do believe they are the worst of them). it was speaker pelosi who did the secret trade deal with bush. it was speaker pelosi who pulled the “don’t attack iran w/o congressional approval” bit from the iraq occupation funding. it was speaker pelosi who promised a stand alone bill on iran – and then didn’t do it. it was speaker pelosi who didn’t even vote on a lame amendment wrt to iran that was snuck in (the vote failed). it was speaker pelosi who voted for h.con.r.21
it was henry waxman’s oversight committee that sucked in a cringe inducing way (save for kucinich and one other) during the tillman hearing last week.
this is not a problem of a few bad apples.
and i’m not talking about surrender – i’m talking about a change of tactics…. maybe just for me…
Good news for Heroin users:
“Afghan poppy crop harvest sets another record
Nation produces nearly 95 percent of world’s heroin supply, U.S. official says”
Hey – how’d we get into the drug business?–Oh yeah- St. Ronnie!!
Well, wherever you are, while your senators are on break, get to their nearest offices and tell them what you’re saying and feeling here. Show up. For members of congress, show up this week before they leave for the break.
That will have lot more impact than any blog post I can write.
john in sacramento @ 70
We are now reaping the fruits of the complete Corporate takeover of all the levers of Government!
Jonathan @ 66
Sadly yes. Me too because during the last cycle I was giving via Blue America’s site (and Act Blue), etc. THIS time I am not fooled. I am giving NOTHING. I have ONLY given a little bit to Edwards and that was it. I will not give another dime to anyone because NONE of them can be trusted.
As for my vote, I’ve decided to go 3rd party all the way. Or write-in. But I will not click next to a single Dem in 2008 for any office.
I was also somewhat disturbed when the candidates were asked how they would STRUCURALLY change things to get us out of the current situation. The answers leaned to the fact that THEIR appoinments would be competent. True or not we have STRUCTUALLY given up our Constitution. I don’t want Queen Hillary or King Obama either.
Jonathan @ 66
I don’t know. I live in Georgia and I donated to Webb because I dislike Allen so much. My thing with him goes back to Vietnam. Here’s an example from the 2004 election
So he can be all bowed up about how stupid this war is but continue to see Vietnam as a noble cause? And those of us in the VVAW were dishonest. Bullshit.
rwcole @ 76
A big cut of the profits will be used to fund the Rethugs and fundies. Why do you think we did what we did (didn’t do) in Afghanistan. Remember Iran-Contra? Drugs were key. the rights constant anti-drug campaign is a cover for, we will use drugs for our own interests.
correction:
uh-un-engaging
And if Hillary sez “ya know” once more time. . . It’s like fingernails on a blackboard to me. I’ve actually sent her an email on the subject, and she does it a lot less now than she used to, but still too much.
anangryoldbroad @ 62
That’s the one that makes sense to me. J Edgar Hoover and Stalin rolled into one.
rwcole @ 76
Actually, CIA gets us in the drug business during every war and every administration.
selise @ 75
i agree completely that madam speaker deserves maximum leverage, of every imaginative kind.
especially since our pro-impeachment efforts are trying to put her in the oval office.
Marcie’s on NPR right now! She sounds great!
Pach,
I’d love to hear more about the foundations
and labor groups. What you’ve learned, etc.
What’s missing from any of the Dems candidates
is having the balls to speak to the utter
human devastation we’re witnessing — abroad
and at home. It’s like some unspoken taboo –
and yet the one thing hanging out there,
as Christy’s post alluded to the other day,
is a well-constructed rationale that is
anchored in humanity/ human experience.
It’s like the old “take my word” for it game
and everyone is conned into ignoring what
they know to be true, in favor of what someone
with money, power, position “says” is true.
I really hope each of you FDLers will be able
to come back and post a thread on everything
and that the respect for human rights will be
a commonality among them.
It’s abhorrent to me that each of the right’s
“pick off groups” has been so dehumanized &
objectified as a repository for projecting
all the world’s ills. We have to challenge
this! With one voice. And not back down!
Richmond- Yeah- that’s why I mentioned Ronnie- I DO remember.
Of course we’re causing a glut of product- so prices will go down and quality will go up- classic buyer’s market.
Praedor Atrebates @ 79
Thanks. I know now how better to spend.
eCAHNomics @ 85
So it’s not just a coincidence that the two recent major wars have been engaged in have been countries that figure large in the drug trade?
“Schumer, Clinton”
Unless I’m mistaken- they voted “no”.
She only got to say a few things, mostly about meeting people she’s only known online. But it was nice to hear her voice.
From Webb:
Kerry’s own comments were filled with hyperbolic exaggerations that sought to make egregious acts seem commonplace. During a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in 1971, he testified that fellow veterans had routinely “raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan.”
Now, the real story
Declassified papers show U.S. atrocities went far beyond My Lai.
Look, I’m not going to argue against the anger, because I share it.
Vent frustration, fine. That’s very understandable and it’s what we do here for each other, among other things.
But I doubt we’re going to have patience for long, not beyond a day or so, for surrender talk. If you don’t want to take power, then why even comment? It doesn’t make any difference, right? Why are you even typing now?
In this community, we fight for and create change. Most of our Blue America people have turned out to be as advertised. Pelosi regularly gets undercut by Hoyer and his power base with Emanuel. If you want to help us change that, great. We welcome you, as we ever have.
GordonM @ 84
And to me that makes them less than shit. A person of courage would blow off the blackmail and come forward about it right off the bat.
You do NOT cave to blackmail or threats, you stand up and tell them to f*ck themselves and then counterattack in force. We have no courageous or ethical leaders (who take their oath seriously). We have a bunch of craven worms.
rwc- I just saw your Ronnie comment when I reread. Well maybe this why the rethugs aren’t too worried about their fund raising being down. They know they have a fresh stash of bills on hand to use in the campaign.
Anyone who could control the production of Poppies in Afghanistan could make trillions- create huge product surpluses and buy low- then create shortages and sell high- two or three cycles and you’d out asset Bill Gates.
Selise -
What secret trade deal??
Bush’s fast track authority is dead. I know of no secret trade deal.
selise, I think the assessment of the Democratic congress’s strategy is right and I find it very depressing. I respond in a slightly different way. I no longer support any party committee’s. I put all my support behind those who are committed to making the kind of changes that are required. In the end though, I don’t think the America can survive another four years of Republican plunder so I still will do all I can to prevent it.
rwcole @ 92
Yes, but those “no” votes have the same value as Lieberman’s “no” vote on Alito AFTER he voted for cloture. Same thing for those “no” votes by any Dem in the Senate. They COULD have done more to prevent that bill from getting anywhere near passing without a LOT of re-editing. Instead, they meekly whispered “no” having done absolutely NOTHING to really stop it.
They’re votes are meaningless and PURELY politically calculated for the base.
Blackmailed? All of them? My God, what did they all do that is so bad that they will throw away the constitution? I have wondered how the dems can actually make plans with the repugs able to bug all conversations. How discreet is the spying mechanism of the NSA? Are they in my living room now or just at the front door?
mattsmom @ 87
Linky?
Three that come immediately to mind: VN, Nicaraugua, Afghanistan. It’s probably just that drugs are so prevalent in so many parts of the world, especially the troubled ones where the U.S. stirs the pot, and they provide a great way for CIA to fund activities that they can’t get thru Congress. In Laos, CIA set up refining labs in the mtns, so it was more efficient to ship downstream, got it into U.S. in dead troops’ coffins, then had contracts with mafia controlled funeral parlors in the U.S., who took it out & sold it into U.S.market.
anangryoldbroad @ 62
Yes the King already has everything he needs to spy on everyone. He doesn’t want to go to FISA court for oversight/warrants. The King wants new legal authority for CYA purposes b/c he and Gonzo et al are against the ropes. They probably have been surveiling people already without FISA approval. Retroactive cover is needed. For Gonzo in particular.
The Democrats do not want to tell the truth to the Merkin people. To do so requires fighting against the prevailing GWOT theme promulgated 24/7 by the MSM and Bushco. It is easier for them to go with the flow (lie). The Dems feel that they will win either way.
eCAHNomics @ 104
That was a great movie wasn’t it?
Praedor Atrebates @ 96
Fine words, but it worked for Stalin. It worked for J Edgar Hoover.
Pachacutec @ 77
pach – i’m not trying to give you a hard time for not writing exactly what i want you to. i’d much rather read about what you think than what i think *g*.
i’m just wishing and wondering if there might be some kind of blogospheric effort to provide accountability for our dems in congress. … ‘cuz i’d love to jump in and support it if it materializes.
i know that my visits and calls are far, far more effective when they are coordinated with others. it is only by working together that we are powerful… and i don’t see that happening (unlike last year).
if glenn is right, they (including speaker pelosi) are getting away with murder. can you tell me he’s wrong?
Pachacutec @ 95
Consider that it is our enemies who wait vulture-like to take the advantage should we succumb to discouragement and defeatism.
self-directed rage cripples our engagement.
it disempowers us.
it empowers them.
hackworth @ 105
My point with the bullshit comment is that I believe these dudes are going to do whatever they want to regardless of the law.
eCAHNomics @ 85
Yes and now much of that heroin is being directed to third world countries to help suppress the leftist movements there. A two for one bargain.
marymccurnin @ 102
You don’t have to blackmail everyone,just key people who are persuasive. Or I’m just a moron. But I’d still like an explaination about this FISA vote. Bush has more than enough power to do anything he wants,so why the dog and pony show?
Yes and now much of that heroin is being directed to third world countries to help suppress the leftist movements there. A two for one bargain.
Smack funds plenty of left wing ops as well.
Yep, that too.
Have you ever had a credit card spending limit lowered?
How would you like to pay over limit fees on top of the outstanding balance, just to get expenses back in line? That is the predicament facing the American consumer as the credit intermediation industry comes to a grinding halt.
They’re going to burn down the Money Tree.
Now is the time to tear up the credit cards.
(Its too late to tear up my draft card.)
Boycott consumer credit. Credit scores are going to hell anyway. It is a very effective way to push back against the MAN. Stop the flow; stop the madness that is distracting us from the real survival issue — our own profligate consumption.
marymccurnin @ 102
Frankly I wonder about all those veiled threats about it being the Dem’s fault if there was a terrorist attack. Maybe I should put my tinfoil hat on but..
mattsmom @ 87
I went to stream from the NPR website. no marcy. what are you listening to, please?
Oy vey, very bad heart burn…oy vey.
One word, “Clueless”.
Oy vey.
GordonM @ 99
i think david sirota and matt stoller were just about the only bloggers who covered. here’s a google search. i’ll go find sirota’s main posts on this later if you like.
Im 48 years old. My parents were very active during the civil rights movement and I was present at a number of major anti-war rallies as a child. I have been a member of grass roots groups that have long since died and that few members of the new netroots have ever heard of.
I have never voted for a Republican. I have voted Soc*al*st and Libertarian a few times because there were no Dems on my local ballot. I have given thousands of dollars to Dems. I have marched in the streets for and against things I believe in. I have escorted women seeking health care through violent anit-abortion groups at local clinics. I have and do fight. But I have also learned a little about Republicans in Democratic clothing. I am no longer able to accept that just because someone puts a D by their name means that they are not wholly bought and paid for. I will no longer automatically throw good money after bad. We should hold Dems as accountable as we do everybody else.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
layers and layers and layers of …no…not lies…ignorance.
May I recommend:
jacqrat @ 117
Likewise!!!
The US is in a position to heavily influence heroin production in Afghanistan and coke production in Columbia–two key drugs. A production difference of–say—five percent whippsawed back and forth will produce trillions in profits- it’s like knowin which horse is gonna win the race. Easy money.
selise, I see the major national blogs, like this one, already pushing people to contact their representatives. I don’t quite know what else you have in mind. What do you imagine could be done?
No one cares what we write, if it does not affect, reflect, or influence what you all do.
“Bloggers” have no power, except inasmuch as we can give voice to what our communities think, what they care about. There’s been a lot of blogging on this subject daily for years now.
Seriously, I’m not trying to be flippant, but I really have no sense of what we can do as bloggers that we are not already doing. I do know that bodies in offices, constituents, make a difference when they provide emphasis to what is said by blogs. That does make a difference. It gets attention, much more than calls, faxes or emails.
rwcole @ 123
Same as it ever was.
raven @ 113
What is different is that the consumers are now in the third world. Mexico City, which was moving into being the center of a coherent leftist movement in Mexico is awash with heroin and cocaine. It used to be an export.
marymccurnin @ 102
ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you send on the internet, every single website you visit, every single packet of data you send or receive is in their grasp via the AT&T illegal wiretap room. Even if you don’t have AT&T accounts, it doesn’t matter because they own some of the main root servers through which virtually ALL internet (and phone) traffic passes.
They don’t have a bug in your house, per se, but they CAN turn any cellphone into a bug quite easily. So long as the phone is on it can be surreptitiously turned into a listening device.
I’m in the military. Every time we go into a classified meeting, all cell phones are collected and removed from the room because they are NOT secure.
Now, that doesn’t mean YOU personally are being bugged or listened to. But you CAN be with very little difficulty if you do a few things to make yourself stand out. One wrong donation to the “wrong” charity. One “wrong” purchase, one “wrong” call to another person who is a “person of interest” for some reason, and you CAN become a focus.
This is why the FISA thing is so bad…it makes it easier and takes away many of the barriers to simple, general spying on all phone and internet traffic for “national security” reasons.
realworld @ 126
K, I’ll rely on you for that info.
Pachacutec @ 95
pach – i’m not talking about surrendering. i want to fight. i’m asking for a fight i can be part of – one that includes holding all the dems to the same standard. one that rejects the calculation of holding the country hostage for the nov 2008 elections (as suggested by glenn’s comment).
marymccurnin @ 102
Enough of them. Doing the same type of things the Repubs have been doing (feathering their nests).
The technology is such that any electronic communication or transaction can be recovered. That’s why the admin threatened to sue any states that tried to find out from Verizon et. al. what those mysterious boxes are in their switching centers.
wigwam @ 121
Orwell also touched upon the same notions in ‘1984′!!!
CTuttle @ 122
Yeah. I am continually frustrated with the lack of communication about press appearances by the most intelligent, articulate women I know.
And what’s with TexB telling us she went for a swim with Marcy and then not posting a photo?!?!
C’mon. Throw a dog a bone, will ya?
eCAHNomics @ 104
FWIW, a colleague of mine, a fellow intelligence officer, had the job of monitoring heroin shipments from Laos and, I believe, Thailand into South Viet Nam.
Pachacutec @ 124
People from the progressive movement in Sacramento sat in Doris Matsui’s office for weeks to change her mind about the war. It worked.
From what I gather from C-SPAN’s voiceover about the House proceedings, they’ll be at least another hour on energy, debating before a second vote, and then I believe the FY 2008 Defense Appropriations Bill will be tackled (with anything added to end the occupation before this heads to the Senate??), before the FISA discussion comes up later this evening.
Jonathan @ 133
Yo Johanthan.
jacqrat @ 132
*Sigh* We’re exiled to the hinterlands of the Blogosphere!!! *g*
I followed the debate on YKos. Wow, it rocked. It was excellent.
Kucinich and Gravel or Gravel and Kucinich…should have been given equal time…it makes me suspicious that someone is “directing” certain candidates toward me…that is not fair. Let me listen to their answers to the issues and make a decision. I don’t need anyone to direct me toward a decision. That inequality of questioning to the candidates was not right!! How can you criticize Fox? Let us, as citizens, make our own minds up. If you manipulate what I hear, you are just as bad as Rove. That really, really, really pissed me off.
Praedor Atrebates @ 127
Cell phones don’t even have to be on. They just have to have a charged battery.
marymccurnin @ 139
Doesn’t it make you a bit edgy posting here?
Gravel’s the most entertaining candidate–on the dem side anyway- perhaps in the whole race- give him an hour of his own!!
I couldn’t watch an hour of Kucinich.
CTuttle @ 131
Yes, but everybody has read that and seen the movie.
Kornbluth and Pohl hit a the ecological and corporatization angles that 1984 doesn’t.
That’s organizing. That’s taking power. It’s not the same as looking for someone else to do it.
I know people are frustrated, but I have to ask, why does anyone believe that we bloggers have more power than you do? We could hypothetically herd cats (there’s no authoritarian structure, here) and try to get a Blogger Week of Outrage on FISA and it would still not make a fraction of the difference this kind of local, constituent action would.
Richmond @ 82
Oh it goes back much further than that. The British Empire introduce opium to China. That’s what the Boxer Rebellion was about. Some believe that it was the CIA that developed heroin in the first place. They certainly had a role in distributing LSD in the 60’s. The CIA is also thought to have developed crack and introduced it in LA in the 80’s. Religion is one opiate, but it sometimes fails so why not use a real opiate?
eCAHNomics @ 104
I had read about the coffins before and wonder about the question of no press to see coffins coming in from the war zone -fears someone might actually track them?
Jonathan @ 133
Someone above implied that the drug story was fiction (”a good movie”), though I read it in a book that I can’t remember but seemed to be respectible. So nice to have some confirmation.
Any info on CIA’s drug business in the recently released “family jewels”?
noen @ 144
Yea, acid really made people subservient
wigwam @ 142
I’ve read both, and a lot of Pohl, Heinlein, Asimov, etal… Sci-Fi rocks!!!
looseheadprop @ 10
Sat down to pay bills this morning, and the second bill at the top of the pile (right after the mortgage) was the annual Sierra Club membership renewal. It was a useful reminder that while the bushites’ trampling of the rule of law and the Constitution may be Issues #1 and 1A, they are just as eagerly trashing the planet, and we can’t go to sleep on that.
raven @ 140
Crap. I’m edgy anyway.
Pachacutec @ 144
This is true, but the blogosphere can be used very effectively to organize such an event. It is a means of communication to let everyone know the issues, the time and place that will be effective, and information on what types of protests actually produce results.
eCAHNomics @ 104
Duh. I forgot central America.
CTuttle @ 148
Some damn good (and scary) stuff for perspective on what’s happening now.
I think Marcy and a male blogger at YearlyKos were briefly interviewed for NPR’s All Things Considered/Weekend Edition evening “news” program (which runs for an hour without repeating, as far as I know). Didn’t catch it though – that program usually amounts to suppressing any actual news in favor of ‘lifestyle’ fluff, since the NPR political censors are off for the weekend.
marymccurnin @ 139
Thank you!!! Also, BTW, in case anybody cares to check it out. Wal-Mart has been putting RFID chips on its merchandise and on its shelves to monitor it. Do some investigation. Check out the dates. Check it out. Check out Gillette and RFID. Google it. This is what they are doing. They can track everything you do. That is what is so freaking secret. Invasion of our privacy. It is not Conspiracy Theory. Check it out yourself. This administration is doing “bad, bad, things”.
I seem to remember that Heroin was invented by a German MD who saw big benefits in it’s use compared to the rawer opiates much in use at the time…
You could order opium from the Sears catalogue at the time- and every Coca Cola came complete with Coke- the real thing…
Don’t think that the CIA was even around at the time. Drugs are of much less value when legal.
eCAHNomics @ 146
eCAHNomics @ 146
Oh no, it happened for sure. The movie was “Who’ll Stop the Rain” with Nolte and Tuesday Weld.
raven @ 140
Yes, actually. Which is exactly why I post here and elsewhere.
Today’s comment by Glenn Greenwald is a masterpiece: http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
noen @ 144
Thanks for reminding about opium & Boxer rebellion.
There really is nothing new in this dirty business of war & empires. And nothing good either.
Didn’t “300″ (the movie) have something about drugs, or was that justa poisoning?
Pach,
bloggers stand to wag the dog wrt MSM, instead of largely responding *to* MSM’s inadequacies.
Bloggers can continue to widen and deepen the discourse,
i.e., taking terror memes out of the forefront and replacing them with topics that are more salient and more pertinent push-points –
several bloggers have alluded to the need to hear more commentary from front line people, people with real expertise, as opposed to what’s watered down for sound bytes.
the Libby Panel alluded to it with the costs of getting official documents and the groups you mentioned are those we don’t hear from — maybe what they have is not as shiny — at first, but by tilting the meme critical mass, you make it appealing by way of informed-peer pressure.
there’s a lot still to be said.
a way to wrest the discourse from power hungry fear mongers.
keep shining the light on non-famous peeps who do the dirty jobs –
that’s where the “juice is at”. just sayin’
marymccurnin @ 150
I’m sorry, I meant Praedor because he or she is in the military.
raven @ 148
Perhaps the Feds clobbered acid, as they have grass because they could be home made/grown in order to create more profits through Heroin.
eCAHNomics @ 146
Don’t know. But do strongly suspect there are some within the CIA who use their positions to conduct purely private criminal activity.
pow wow @ 154
You can get the archives of these shows from the NPR site.
Richmond @ 163
Great article about Owsley in the “Summer of Love” issue of the Rolling Stone. . .speaking of.
The opium poppy was cultivated in lower Mesopotamia as long ago as 3400 BC.[4] The chemical analysis of opium in the 19th century revealed that most of its activity could be ascribed to two ingredients, codeine and morphine.
Heroin was first synthesized in 1874 by C.R. Alder Wright, an English chemist working at St. Mary’s Hospital Medical School in London, England. He had been experimenting with combining morphine with various acids. He boiled anhydrous morphine alkaloid with acetic anhydride over a stove for several hours and produced a more potent, acetylated form of morphine, now called diacetylmorphine. The compound was sent to F.M. Pierce of Owens College in Manchester for analysis, who reported the following to Wright:
Doses … were subcutaneously injected into young dogs and rabbits … with the following general results … great prostration, fear, and sleepiness speedily following the administration, the eyes being sensitive, and pupils constrict, considerable salivation being produced in dogs, and slight tendency to vomiting in some cases, but no actual emesis. Respiration was at first quickened, but subsequently reduced, and the heart’s action was diminished, and rendered irregular. Marked want of coordinating power over the muscular movements, and loss of power in the pelvis and hind limbs, together with a diminution of temperature in the rectum of about 4° (rectal failure).[5]
Wright’s invention, however, did not lead to any further developments, and heroin only became popular after it was independently re-synthesized 23 years later by another chemist, Felix Hoffmann. Hoffmann, working at the Bayer pharmaceutical company in Elberfeld, Germany, was instructed by his supervisor Heinrich Dreser to acetylate morphine with the objective of producing codeine, a natural derivative of the opium poppy, similar to morphine but less potent and less addictive. But instead of producing codeine, the experiment produced a substance that was actually three times more potent than morphine itself. Bayer would name the substance “heroin”, probably from the word heroisch, German for heroic, because in field studies people using the medicine felt “heroic”.[6]
Pachacutec @ 124
when the dems fuck up – calling them on it? like glenn did today? like siun did on s.amdt.2073?
not letting them get away with it? no passes? they’ve been doing a lot of shit and it’s mostly *crickets*. maybe you don’t know about a lot of it. would it help if i send you an email when i see something get fucked up?
i know you don’t have the power to change the world – but you do have the power to educate. i’m not asking for anything we weren’t doing last year here.
but, look – it’s your blog not mine. i’m just trying to find a way to fight this fuckery. but i’m gonna shut up for now.
in my defense, this has been building for months. in the past, i’ve held back – saying that i’m sure i would get banned if i commented with my real thoughts. fisa has just pushed me over the edge.
LS @ 155
One solution to the walmart problem is not to shop there. Until Katrina took out my parents’ home in NOLA and they moved to Picaune, MS. I had never been in a walmart. Now I table outside of the walmart in Rancho Cordova. You wouldn’t believe the numbers of people signing the anti-war petition. Many Iraqi war veterans, soldiers and their parents.
Jonathan @ 164
I’m shocked, truly shocked. Not.
marymccurnin @ 169
Yea, and walmart was one of the only organizations that was worth a flying fuck during Katrina.
marymccurnin @ 169
Damn straght Mary!!
On cell phone spying, I also wonder about Google and google desktop. Seriously!
Richmond @ 173
Of course!
Pach,
I’ve been watching YKos reruns on Ustream.tv, but caught the presidential candidates forum live. One striking visual: Black background, men in gray suits– and Hillary, in a bright turquoise jacket! Pretty easy to pick her out!
I was impressed with John Edwards’ points, and he managed to isolate Hillary as the only one who stuck by receiving donations from lobbyists.
But I saw Dean’s wonderful keynote, and right now I’m listening to Wes Clark’s keynote– I love the way he took Bush to the woodshed on the war! I love the way he did it, and that deserves to be emulated by the candidates.
Bob in HI
Richmond @ 173
Since the FBI came to my house for VVAW meetings with ear sets in 1971 I have figured they know everything. Fuck it.
Jonathan @ 164
In the late 70s, well before stories of CIA involvement in drug shipments, I used to have coffee in the mornings with a group of guys that included an ex-SEAL. He insisted that after he left the service he worked for the CIA’s Air America guarding DC-3s loaded with heroine. I dismissed him as full of shit.
selise @ 119
my apologies for messing up the link. it’s in now. was too upset, i guess.
Go Mary!(on Walmart): that is turning the tables the right way. Though I’m surprised they didn’t kick you out.
raven @ 53
And you have a problem with that? Would you really prefer that Allen had been re-elected?
rwcole @ 167
Thanks for history, chemistry & biology lesson. (This comment is sincere.)
Was Judith Giuiliani involved in the dog experiments? (This comment is snark.)
In the late 70s, well before stories of CIA involvement in drug shipments, I used to have coffee in the mornings with a group of guys that included an ex-SEAL. He insisted that after he left the service he worked for the CIA’s Air America guarding DC-3s loaded with heroine. I dismissed him as full of shit. And there were people from C-U who worked to oil rigs in the gulf of mexico with some of the very same stories.
From experience, I will say this: the blogosphere is not actually good at getting a lot of bodies into offices like this on short notice.
Labor is good at that, for it’s issues, because it is organized, has local reach and frankly operates for within according to a more top down model.
The blogosphere is good at other things, but it’s not actually good t the kind of campaign coordination for office visits, etc. If, and it’s a big, big if, you can get a whole set of blogs to agree with the strategic wisdom of the campaign, and get a coordinated message, and put people in place to answer questions and manage national communications, do press relations, etc, get everyone writing about it, get commenters and readers to understand and participate (and they will tell us in many cases we’re stupid or they don’t have time or who do we think we are to tell them what to do?), then it would tke more then a week to get that multiblogger infratsructure and campaign in place.
Labor, for example, has all this coordinated organization in place to roll out as needed, but we would have to create it for every such project, and we can’t do it fast, if at all.
We are good at this stuff for some media type campaigns, such as the pushback against ABC’s Path to 9/11, but getting bodies to show up in those kind of coordinated numbers, across multiple blogs? It has not happened yet. It’s not our core competency.
So, you can say that in theory “the blogs” could coordinate such a thing, but in actuality, we can’t. But it can be done by groups of friends or political groups locally. In fact, the best way to do this would be for some local group to just do it and publicize it, so others could copy it and make it go viral from the grass roots.
wigwam @ 122
Read it – love it.
burnspbesq @ 180
burnspbesq @ 180
If I had a problem with it I wouldn’t have given money now would I? My point is I am not surprised at how conservative he really is.
Pach- on labor ad bodies in offices. SEIU is a fabulous union, and did a great job in getting Patrick elected in Ma. They are smart and have good politics. I wonder whether we can begin to team with SEIU and similar unions on things that impact all of us.
Also interesting reading by Frederik Pohl – “The Man Who Ate The World”
wigwam @ 154
They’re as eerily perceptive as Nostradamus was, yet, they weren’t as deceptive in their musings!!! *g*
Aw right, it’s down to 90 outside and I’ve got some fence posts to set. Ya’ll be nice to each other while I’m gone.
Richmond @ 180
You have to get permission to table here in Cali. It is actually easier to get permission from Walmart than some of the uppity grocery stores. It is more of a situation of like-”They know not what they do.”
Jonathan @ 165
And wouldn’t that be a nice sideline for Blackwater et. al.
Richmond @ 186
Great idea. Head of SEIU was at YK2 yesterday, iirc. He talked mainly about his globaization strategy, but would be great to coordinate with them on on-the-ground actions.
Honestly, do you really think the average congressman or woman, would be alarmed at eavesdropping on people intending to bomb us? NO. But, they would be alarmed if they knew or suspected that the motivations were…let’s say…less than honorable.
Something illegal, as judged already have decided, is going down. Our government is participating or precipitating things that are unconstitutional.
None of this passes the “sniff” test.
Well, as for my writing, I’m not writing often on anything these days, because I’m working to try to make this site financially sustainable.
I don’t think Christy or Phoenix Woman or Scarecrow others who write far more frequently than I do would agree that we’ve been asleep at the wheel. If you want to argue that with them, be my guest. But we are the site most known for putting activist pressure on constitutional and civil liberties issues.
Alicia @ 184
My father recommended it when I was very young. It was one of his favorites.
Pachacutec @ 184
Take a look at Peace in the Precincts for a model of grass roots organization. It is from the Wellstone folks. We have a chapter here in Sac.
selise: I hear you still!
Maybe what we need is some sort of way to collect information about *what* does work for people (there have been couple of stories right here in this thread) with a view towards supporting these local (grassroots) efforts in the future.
I dunno.
I don’t think anything you are saying is out of line here. We have to look hard at what’s happening to keep going.
Well, that’s what I think. I can’t see anyone here arguing with that.
Wal-mart. I’ve never bought anything there (though I recently visited a Target for the first time & bought a birthday card for my great-nephew). I did stop into a Wal-mart once, driving with a friend between Fort Worth & Houston, so she could buy something. Female shoppers were so fat you could serve a 12-person dinner party on their hips.
wigwam @ 177
There are a lot of fake ex-SEALs. Just as there are a lot of fake Viet Nam veterans. If this guy was a SEAL for real, I’d believe him.
Pachacutec @ 194
You are, and have been, incredible in fighting for constitutional and civil liberties issues. In my mind, you are amazing heroes each and every one of you!!!
Pach @ 184
That seems sensible, I appreciate your thoughts.
I’ve been campaigning my neighbors for almost a year now to get organized about the petty crime in our neighborhood. Come Labor Day we’re having a get together on municipal property, and we’re reclaiming it as ours. It’s a bit of a trouble spot.
This will be the first time we’re all getting together, and it was the idea of someone I’ve been coaxing to get involved in the last 6 months or so.
It’s a small step however it’s an important one. It took me a lot of time and engaging people.
I know it frustrating but results happen when you don’t give up.
SEIU is very good and I was talking with an organizier today about immigration stuff, as I mentioned in the main post.
But SEIU is, after all, SEIU, and there’s no consensus and will or rank and file support to get people turned out like this over privacy or FISA. That organizational will is not something they see as their core mission, and if we theoretically were able to change that, we could not do it in a week.
I’m just telling you this as someone who is an organizer, who looks at and studies what actually works.
If you pull something together in your home area, send a press release to your local news stations and your local papers, do your thing at the rep’s office, post a diary about it on kos and video yourselves at the office, put your video on Youtube and blog about it again, tell us here what you’re doing, then people elsewhere can possibly catch the bug an imitate you, all within a short span of days.
I’m telling you, that’s the most likely route to success with something like this, but it’s no guarantee. People may not like to hear it, but that’s what could work in a short time frame.
If you start it, we can publicize it, here and at C&L, and in some other places. Then you have a fighting chance at a viral, grassroots movement.
fdl reader @ 197
Another great idea. Best practices compilation. Outcomes assessment. More analysis, less moaning.
Edwards/Clark 2008
eCAHNomics @ 193
Yeah, what Pach said … and this is sounding good already!
You cannot create change through emails and blogs. You can send and receive information in a speedy and clean way. Bodies must show up at city halls, state capitals, senator’s and rep’s offices, on street corners with signs, etc. Feeling frustration because you have been ineffect online is counter productive. Giving up is not an option. This is not just about our country. We need to prove our own cynicism wrong.
Bluetoe @ 205
I could vote for that ticket.
Cujo359 @ 71
Heh. I love the Bab 5 quote– one of my favorite series ever! And Marcus was an interesting character.
Um, didn’t Jimmy Carter also have something to say on this subject? (”Life is unfair” – 1978)
Bob in HI
Bluetoe @ 205
You’ve got my vote. I trust these guys.
Pachacutec @ 195
Christy has said more than once in just the past 2 or 3 weeks that she’s trying to come up with an idea that will fly for a campaign ~ and she’s asked us to brainstorm with/for her. So, this kind of thing is in the works.
Pachacutec @ 95
The ‘06 election was huge..it slowed down the police state and give us a chance. The Republicans have been working their asses off for more than 30 years to get to this point. Now that thing aren’t perfect after seven months, people are giving up. There also seems to be more troll activity on FDL..ie “The Dems are pu**ies, we need a third party..I’m not giving any more money to the Dems..blah..blah.”
We are making progress..but we have to win in ‘08..Hilliary is right 4-8 more years of a Republican President and we are truly fucked. I am more energized than ever to take back our Government. I’ll be damned if I want to finish my time on Earth in a KBR camp.
Edwards/Richardson
marymccurnin @ 134
that’s beautiful.
before last year, when i decided that taking action via blog organizing – was an effective way to act. i was the first person (i think) at fdl to take pach’s suggestion to start visiting our senators instead of just calling about the censure resolution. i asked for company and RevDeb volunteered and when i email prof foland he wanted to join us…. we went back many times and finally got kerry to cosponsor the resolution. people all over the country started making coordinated visits. when the ny group couldn’t get in to see anyone in clinton’s office, john amato posted their video and they got a call within, iirc, an hour and an invite. it was beautiful. and the lamont campaign? that was the best. i spent many days down in ct canvassing for ned. loved it.
lots of fun stuff.
LS @ 174
I think there are lots of other ways for the gov to invade your PC and track you on the Net. Although I think some of the deals Google has made have been terrible I suspect they are one of the least likely to put sp*ware on your PC.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
Edwards/Almost Anyone but LiarJoe
rwcole @ 212
I’ll vote for this ticket too.
rwcole @ 213
If I was voting, I could sure go for that.
jonathan-i give money to actblue candidates……..and feel confident in doing so. ……a few have jumped ship, but they won’t get any more money, they will feel the hurt……and many candidates are in districts that need to be won by a progressive candidate…..one of them in ohio……mean jean schmidt’s district, victoria wulsin is taking her on again……i believe in quite a few of them…….that’s where my money is going, and to fdl…..when i can afford it, i’m on a tight budget, and i don’t feel betrayed or misrepresented……..jmho, ymmv…….
eCAHNomics @ 198
What the @#$% kind of remark is that? No wonder that the ordinary every day Joe and Josephine who has no choice but to shop at
Walmart, thinks we “progressives” are elite Massachusetts liberals. It’s the reason we lost the last presidential election.
It would serve us all well to remember that not all who vote are as choosy.
This comes from someone who considers themself a progressive Democrat, and who absolutely hates to shop at Walmart, and doesn’t, unless they are the only store in town who has what I want, or need.
We are going no where fast with this kind of attitude. Winning hearts and minds? Not the way to do it.
eCAHNomics @ 199
Poor people are often fat.
Jonathan @ 210
Though I like this ticket, I wouldn’t use the word “trust” with any pol. The closest I could come would be to say I distrust them less than the others.
The power to take action is my hands, the inspiration to use it is from the blogs.
raven @ 148
It destroyed people minds and was part of MKULTRA’s search for a way to control people. They hired hookers to give LSD to unsuspecting suspects. Some committed suicide.
The government is perfectly willing to experiment on it’s people. Giving radioactive mush to children just to see what happens or releasing bio warfare agents in the subways to study the results.
That’s what you do with property.
eCAHNomics I knew I could count on you.
Fat people are often poor.
So is this it? Is it really gonna happen? Are you people really gonna throw the full weight of your support behind Hillary, the neocons’ favorite (well, second-favorite) Democrat? Did anybody at the forum bother to ask her about her recent comments where she refused to rule out nuking Muslim nations like Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iran? Should I just fall back into line now with the rest of the sheep and start repeating the mantra “lesser evil, lesser evil, lesser evil”?
marymccurnin @ 197
My computer is misbehaving so I haven’t checked the Wellstone stuff … but I recall hearing that they had set up a whole grassroots support/training network. These are the kinds of networks/alliances that are useful.
I tried to find resources for my own grassroots strategizing 3 years ago and I found it just impossibly confusing to the point of being useless … so from my experience, pointing people to good, solid, easy to follow programs and support would be more than worthwhile!
dmac @ 218
I’m angry and naive. And I hate to waste money (or worse, find my money being used against me).
Hillary’s not a favorite- but she’s right about a prez not gratuitiously taking options off the table- there’s no reason to do that.
Pachacutec @ 195
Argue with Christy, nah I think I’ll pass on that one. You guys are doing great.
Sixty Something @ 219
I apoligize for my thoughtlessness, but the description is accurate.
marymcurrnan @ 220
Yes, you are right and that’s probably the context in which I should have placed my comment, insteading of being insulting.
Dariush @ 227
WTF?
“you people”?????
I don’t like Hillary and I don’t like that you assume that I do.
1,598 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOES ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Raven and the Firepup Patriots:
I am marchin’ to yer cadence, brother Raven…Webb was (is) a political opportunist and represents the “Reagan Democrat”. In other words, he isn’t now nor has he ever been a Democrat. That doesn’t mean he ain’t better’n Allen but I’m concerned that he’s gunna turn out ta be in it to protect his kid and his “economic populism” is gettin’ ta sound mor’n more like Crazy Ronnie every speech he makes.
So with that said, I want to try and get into sumpthin’ in which I ken make a difference …like gettin’ a group of FDL ‘Nam vets together on the net to “meet up” and try and get some direct action goin’. Pach, I ain’t real computer savvy so I haven’t had the courage to try and hook-up with yer Roots Project, is there a way that a couple of us could make contact with others thru the Roots to maybe brainstorm and share some organizin info and maybe get a network of vets to coordinate thru the Roots to augment or initiate local political action?
I am gettin’ a very bad feelin’ about what’s happenin’ here…deja vu in spadz. The kids who are gunna get dumped back on the street when this is over are NOT gunna have the GI Bill we had, nor are they gunna have in-service medical care from the station hospitals like Walter Reed, Bethesda, Letterman or Fitzsimmons, nor are they gunna have a VA medical system even half as good as what we had and they sure as hell aren’t gunna be paraded down the street by the bastards that sent ‘em over there.
So I think us folks who were lucky enough to make it back from the last one owe it to our brothers who didn’t get back to do everything we ken to get the kids home TODAY and to demand that the regular military medical establishment AND the VA get the money Haliburton has been gettin’.
We got work we ken do if we ken start talkin’ to each other.
How about it Pachacutec, can you help us out here?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION PEOPLE ARE DYIN’ IN OUR NAME!!
CTuttle @ 103
WESAT for today doesn’t list anything that I can see. Mattsmom, can you remember what show segment that was?
Bob in HI
You folks are harsh taskmasters, taking miscreants out to the woodshed with the click of a mouse. I’ve been trying to be good, but I’ll try harder.
All of this “new media”, all of these tools at our disposal, and still the most ruthless, manipulative, Machiavellian candidate — the one with the overflowing coffers, and the full backing of the establishment — is going to win the whole thing. This is just sad. Beyond sad. It’ll take something like China wanting to collect on its debt before any meaningful change happens in this country.
Pachacutec @ 204
Continuing with my own experience …
I never intended to do any of this in my life! So when I was faced with *needing* to take action, I had no idea how to do it.
I know I am not alone.
What you have described here Pach was so easy for you to write, but for most of us it represents a level of knowledge that we don’t have. I had to invent how to contact media. I wished I had even known one person trained in media relations to give me a to do list or a clue how to write a press release. It’s really hard if you’ve never done it.
Once you’ve done it once, it’s nothing, but this is the obstacle for people like me.
rwcole @ 227
Ahem. I’m sure you don’t mean that the way it sounds….right? Are you trying to say that poor people can only afford empty calorie types of foods which are cheap, and those cheap foods which they are forced to eat due to poverty cause them to gain excessive weight?
marymccurnin @ 234
WTF whiplash, LOL
eCAHNomics @ 199
LOL! Never been to Walmart (don’t even know where the local one is).
Jonathan @ 230
No shit!
Pachacutec @ 203
i used to do a lot of local organizing – everything including local protests, buses to the major protests, a teachin, raised $3K for an anti-war ad in the local paper, a human rights movie on afghanistan, i also volunteered a couple of times with the nlg – got tear gassed and pepper sprayed for my efforts. a whole bunch of other stuff. even went to occupied palestine and volunteered with a peace/human rights organization (the same one that rachael corrie got killed volunteering with).
but none of these were as effective as they could have been in getting attention beyound a the local area. or breaking through with the truth beyond people who read indy media. i saw blogs as a way that gap was being bridged. my problem is that my writing sucks… i have to piggyback off of efforts of people who can write well.
i didn’t mean to let myself complain. and i hope you know that i’m not proposing to sit on my ass and just throwing shots. was just trying to ask if there was anything being cooked up at ykos i could look forward to supporting.
rwcole @ 226
Have we looked at the Republicans lately? Seen Denny Haestert, Karl Rove. Most Republicans tend to be a bit jowly. At one time in history to be fat was a sign of success and wealth. Taft was so fat that he once was stuck in the Presidential bathtub and had to be pried out with a crowbar.
LS @ 238
LS, FWIW, for 35 years I have been a student (not a teacher) of how to eat well on a small amount of money. Brown rice and split peas, for example, clean the gut and provide complete protein. There is lots of knowledge to be gained by ALL in this arena.
LS @ 240
All of that and depression. Obesity and Type II diabetes are bankrupting National Health care before we even have a Single payer system.
“…gratuitiously taking options off the table…”
Gratuitous? If anybody actually believes that the “leadership” of this country can wipe another nation off the map, with the silent assent, or whooping approval of the population, and not have the scales be righted in turn, they are leaving in a dream world.
Understood, but. . . you can find online tips on writing press release, which is basically aa one page or 200 word announcement with who, what, where, why and the name and phone number of a contact person, all on one page.
You can use an efax account to send faxes through your email. This stuff can be learned as easily as you learn how to read and comment on a blog. But we can’t do that for you. We have linked to tips and resources like this in the past, but local DFA groups and things like that can help, and someone usually knows how to video their kids’ birthday parties.
The point is, if people want to learn, they can learn, but looking to me or us at a blog to “do something” is, while understandable, nevertheless a barrier to taking and realizing your own power.
OK I’m gonna get clipped on the f*t comment too. Definitely a no go subject here. It is definitely a class -and health issue (no safe playgrounds, no time to exercise, no money for healthy food, no energy to cook it, too much tv with junk advertisements).
New thread up from Jane.
Here:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ast-night/
LS @ 239
That’s mostly true for me. I just can’t afford to eat a lot of meat. When I go to the food shelf I’m lucky to get whatever meat they have and even then it isn’t much. Starches are so much cheaper. But I have the advantage of being well educated and some what smart. I know how make the most use of what I have and I don’t have many bad habits. Many poor folk do have some bad dietary habits. I never drink soft drinks with their concentrated corn sweeteners and I don’t eat at fast food places.
The United States puts out 4000 calories of food per day per person. No one needs more than 2000.
New thread from Jane
Um, people, I think we need to take a deep breath and slow down. We’ve had a really bad day and it might get worse. But we don’t want to start eating our own. This community is the best and we need each other. And on the bright side, we had an amazing victory last November.
We haven’t reached the mountaintop yet but we’re closer than we’ve been in 6 years. And we’re getting stronger. So, lets hope this day gets better and remember that no one ever thought taking back our country was going to be easy.
marymccurnin @ 254
Agree. The real question is, from which sources do you get the 2000 calories? Americans (because of corporations) are horribly ignorant of this.
The food that is good for us as humans is much, much cheaper to produce than the foods that are cheaper for us to consume that cause us bodily harm.
When is someone going to take some action to help the citizens of “the Homeland”, oh, I’m sorry, I meant America?
marymccurnin @ 254
That is insane Mary!!
my 219-i meant blue america,not act blue
raven @ 141
This is tame. If I were to post something worthy of real scrutiny, I would do so with a different name AND through a Tor network. No way ANYONE could determine where my messages originated then, not even the NSA.
In case things were to get REAL dicey and just posting to a website about being against this war or that war, etc, became a reason to cause you trouble, I recommend Tor. It makes your serfing a somewhat slower (as you are working through 3 other random computers before you actually get to an “on ramp” to the internet and you must turn off certain things in your browser to make your serfing truly anonymous) but it works well.
I am also able to send totally anonymous email via mixminion.
In any case, it isn’t there yet (at least I don’t believe it is) but come a False Flag event (which I fully expect) all bets are off. The 9/11 attack WAS the Reichstag fire. It really was, but as this is not a perfect duplication of 1930s Germany, it will take another similar (false flag or even real) to push it the rest of the way. Sad thing is the Dems are being MORE than accomodating in this regard and seem more than willing to offer up the necessary moves without any “justification” whatsoever.
pow wow @ 155
Yes, the segment was
Bob in HI
Fern @ 67
That’s what I’m hoping for, they take out the Gonzalez oversight (sic) and leave an unreconciled pair of bills.
Not holding my breath, but if everyone was as clear as I was in my requests to Pelosi and my Rep., they may get the message.
We want you to fight. If I wanted Republicans, I’d have voted for them.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 235
As for ammunition…you may want to stock up. Word is it will start getting expensive in September: metal shortage. Short on copper, short on brass… There is the OTHER Peak that isn’t talked about much, Peak Oil getting all the attention, but there is a Peak Metal too. The “peaks” for different key, crucial metals are different, with some, like copper, being in the next few years while a few other key metals (required for our modern world and COMPUTERS) are looking at peaking in a less than 50.
In any case, ammo is going to start taking a hit in the next month due to a metal shortage so…
noen @ 253
Exactly. It is not your fault!!! People don’t decide to attract things to them that cause them bodily harm.. People, like you and me, go to the store and try to get as much to eat as our money will stretch. Food that is “supposedly” healthy will be much more expensive. You have to pay more to eat what is healthier. That is nuts…unless.. you consider how much money the pharmaceutical companies make on your physical ailments, as a result of what one eats, which could be often prevented by a change in national policy. We are the bait that feeds the monster that eats the world.
one of the reasons i’m so upset today is that i think we might have seriously fucked things up by calling our reps and asking them to vote against the bill in the house last night.
i put this together after talking with a staffer in my rep’s office this morning (jim mcgovern is my rep, a pretty good guy and vice chair of the rules committee). i think she was pissed at us (the aclu and the rest of the people calling). i inferred from what she said (disclaimer: i may be very wrong) – that the house torpedoed last night’s bill based on our calls. and now we’re going to get the senate/bush version instead… and there’s nothing the house can do.
i really, really hope i’m wrong on this. ‘cuz i don’t want to be part of why this horrible bill becomes law.
solai @ 256
That’s just how conservatives and neo-fascists felt in 1933. It was an uphill struggle but look where they are today!
selise @ 266
Bullcrappola!!! They work for us. It is our money. They represent us.
It is up to them, tonight, to stand up and say no, I won’t vote for the policies of this president. If they don’t do that, they are not voting on our behalf. They will be held accountable.
How dare they hold us accountable for their lack of “cojones”.
I am furious.
They work for us. All of them. Every last little, snarling one of them. They cannot, cannot, cannot blame their incompetance on us.
raven at 183 says-”
In the late 70s, well before stories of CIA involvement in drug shipments, I used to have coffee in the mornings with a group of guys that included an ex-SEAL. He insisted that after he left the service he worked for the CIA’s Air America guarding DC-3s loaded with heroine. I dismissed him as full of shit. And there were people from C-U who worked to oil rigs in the gulf of mexico with some of the very same stories.”
i worked with many vietnam vets, we spent hours together working on phone cables, and eating lunch……….they said the same things you are all saying…….i was a pup, and they adopted me…….they told me things that affected my life……forever………
selise @ 266
Are you saying the Democrats that were contacted by phone, email, faxes were pissed at their constituents for encouraging them to vote for the Constitution and not cave into the fear tactics of the Republican Party??? Is that what your’e saying?
selise @ 266 – That seems unlikely to me (that our pressure prevented passage of the House’s FISA bill), since only about 10 Democrats (principled progressives) defected and therefore the votes needed to reach 2/3rds and passage were mostly Republican (or votes which constituents basically have no influence over, since party orders trump duty to country for Republicans). Also that all went down last night before most people could figure out what was happening – I think the real, targeted pressure on the House didn’t start coming until today.
The Democrats had to know going in that this depended on Republicans splitting their vote – but House leaders may have thought the Republicans would do so in large enough numbers to pass the House FISA bill, based on DNI McConnell’s agreement and approval of the bill, until Cheney overrode him the next day before the vote could take place.
So don’t blame yourself – you’re doing far more than most to right this ship of state.
dmac @ 269
Words of infinite wisdom. Like Conyers said,”My Son….”
I guess the blogosphere has to be much more cognizant as to the delicate sensibilities of OUR representatives. They don’t like it when their constituents hold their feet to the fire. They would much rather work in the dark corners out of view of the rabble.
LS @ 268 –
i don’t think we were being blamed. remember, i’m inferring a lot based on what i was told.
i do think it’s possible that we didn’t help things by our calls, and may be even helped contribute to the problem of the senate bill or no bill.
i’m hoping no bill – but between the ‘Rs and the bluedogs, they’ve got enough to pass the senate bill if they don’t try to block it (via the rule).
but if there has to be a bill, i’d wish for the bill that was voted down last night.
i really don’t know what’s going on – and apparently no one does either… and that makes it hard to know what action it makes sense to take. oh well, water under the bridge now… i’ve been glued to c-span all day waiting to see how this shakes out.
I think that all I am seeing, all I am realizing, all that I know….happened 30 plus years ago. At that time, I decided to let it all hang out, to turn on and tune out…to fight against tyranny….why the hell does this feel like Groundhog Day…am I having a flashback…?
I understand the FISA setback, but do you think that a few million Americas would have gotten a raise in the minimum wage if the Democrats had not won the House and Senate, even though nobody or almost nobody thought the Senate was possible. Do you think a few million kids who now will have health insurance if the Democrats had not won the House and Senate. There are going to be setbacks, of course.
Progress, setback, progress that is the way the real world works.
LS @ 275
It is if you are LS D
Bluetoe @ 270
no!
i’m saying that maybe we shouldn’t have asked them to reject the bill that was negotiated yesterday – the one the house voted on last night. it was not good.. but it was much, much better than the one i think we’re going to get today (the senate/bush bill).
maybe we should have asked them to block the bill the houssewill be considering tonight…. even if it meant letting the bill last night past.
the impression i got from the staffer was that she was upset that it looked like the senate version may pass… i think she hates it as much as we do. and maybe she felt a bit frustrated that public pressure cut off the only out she saw?
i don’t know… but there was nothing unhelpful about our conversation. and i do think she hates this fisa bill every bit as much as we do.
selise @ 274
Me too, hence my return to wanting to be a deadhead…:}…
If they vote down the McConnell bill in the House, Bush is foooked. If they vote for the McConnell language..we are foooked…for now. We have to wait and see. If our Dems go with Bush, we will know, once and for all, whose side they are on. We will prevail ultimately. We have to stick together. I still believe that no matter how many calls we make, we cannot overcome the lobbyist factors for any bill.
Bluetoe @ 277
jonathan at 230 says-”I’m angry and naive. And I hate to waste money (or worse, find my money being used against me).”
angry and naive-both things you can grow out of………
Sandman @ 276
I’m with you. I hope you are right with all my heart. We will soon find out. I really hope so. Sometimes, I think Granny has it together, sometimes not.
pow wow @ 271
i’m not explaining this well… i’m so sorry… i think they controlled the failure of last night’s bill by the use of the rule (or lack thereof).. that’s why 2/3 were required.
i guess we’ll see when the senate version comes up. will it be voted on with rule suspension so that 2/3 votes are required? if so, then the house can block it – and if they don’t then i will be righteously pissed.
but if they give it a rule that only requires a simple majority – then i think that means that the rule suspension last night was a way to block the bill.
look, i don’t know… i spent severala hours today trying to figure it all out. that’s my best take at it… but i could be really, really wrong.
and i’m so sorry that i suck at describing this. just like i said in my earlier comment. i suck at writing.
Vacation for 4 weeks or Spying, deemed illegal, forever…
Wow…I can’t figure out what to do….D’oh
LS @ 279
haha! i’m sure i’d be feeling much better if i was listening to some tunes instead of c-span.
the things is.. the Rs may only need a few Ds to cross over – it all depends on the rule. if the dems cave, i expect it will be via the rule. they can provide a rule that requires only a simple majority (unlike last night). then the bill passes with Rs votes and a very few D votes. most of the Ds can vote no and pretend that they are not responsible – although they are because of the rule.
major kabuki potential here.
praetor at 264 says-”As for ammunition…you may want to stock up. Word is it will start getting expensive in September: metal shortage. Short on copper, short on brass… There is the OTHER Peak that isn’t talked about much, Peak Oil getting all the attention, but there is a Peak Metal too. The “peaks” for different key, crucial metals are different, with some, like copper, being in the next few years while a few other key metals (required for our modern world and COMPUTERS) are looking at peaking in a less than 50.
In any case, ammo is going to start taking a hit in the next month due to a metal shortage so…”
and also, new laws on how it has to be stored-at shops, and if you extend it, at home…….
Well, now there’s a group called “Fat People For Hillary”‘. Keep it up and this election is a piece of “cake”. It’s good that you actually talk issues.
wigwam @ 160
Excellent!
Bob in HI
ls at 275 says-”I think that all I am seeing, all I am realizing, all that I know….happened 30 plus years ago. At that time, I decided to let it all hang out, to turn on and tune out…to fight against tyranny….why the hell does this feel like Groundhog Day…am I having a flashback…?”
i used to have a saying that i would say to older worry-wart coworkers-”what would you do about it if you were 19?”
Jo-Ann @ 287
my sincere apologies.
emerald @ 50
Sorry to hear you are mixed up with Foundations.
I wouldn’t trust any of them.
For God’s sake don’t let any of those fucken Foundations leverage FDL with their fucken money.
Keeping Foundations at arm’s length ain’t nearly far enough.
This bridge in Minnesota, Katrina/New Orleans, and Pat Tillman are all related. Our infrastructure and social fabric are disintegrating before our eyes. “I pledge ‘No New Taxes!!!’” is the refrain that we hear, but what do we get in return? A Dow at 14,000?
The Dow is a thermometer that is telling us we are sick and unstable. The symptoms of the disease are incompetence at directing a disaster recovery, the inability to fix the plumbing (so to speak) on our roadways. And the inability or unwillingness to tell the truth when something does go wrong. Oh, because there might be some liability, someone might find out. and it is better that a Nation dwell in unbelief rather than someone tell the truth. Well, I am sick of it.
I want someone to change the channel. But only I can do that.