zed

early?

I was almost caught up on the last thread, too.

Jane!

Hi Jane! Might want to find a tv or cspan.com. interesting debate over FISA going on in the House.

permission to be the first to go OT?

and revise and extend my remarks?

Thanks Jane, always a pleasure to read your insight.

Just seeing Matt Bai on the “Meet the Kossacks” video I got the impression that he’s a full-of-himself ass, and a game show is likely the best place for him. How and why was he even moderating that session? Who’s stupid idea was it to turn over the reins of running these affairs to the much-hated and much-failing corporate media personalities? Seriously, it’s a blight on YearlyKos that they allowed such a thing.

Eshoo rocks! (oops, OT already!)

Thanks Jane, Interesting wrap up. Also I thought Obama was interesting in the session afterwards.

{{{{{JANE!!!!!}}}}}

So it sounds as if Matt Bai might be angling for The Beard’s job?

edwards/richardson

Jane, we might end up hijacking your thread for the FISA debate going on in the House. Hope you don’t mind.

While it’s good to hear Obama say something he didn’t have to explain further, I’m not voting for someone on the basis of their willingness to challenge the establishment. I’m looking for someone who is going to put this country back on track and drive a stake into the creature the Bush administration created.

It also bears noting that presidents aren’t elected on the basis of their foreign policy. Carter, Reagan, Clinton & Bush all had to learn on the job when events were thrust upon them. It’s also probably no coincidence that five of the last nine presidents were governors.

btw, my sense is the Edwards hit a homer and Obama barely showed up. Hillary sounded kinda shrill and whiny. maybe just me.

Jane
Who’e the “everyone” who agreed that Hillary lost? The feedback you get from talking to the people there?

I agree that Hillary made a bad on taking finances from lobbyists. I thought Edwards was brilliant on that.

More in Anger Than in Sorrow –

Latest FaBlog: Nous Sommes Tous les Juifs Allemands

whoa. the law sunsets in 6 months, but anything done in that 6 months can continue for another year.

Issa
The constitution is not good enuf for the next 6 months.

Issa puts the squeeze spin on

Issa - “If we don’t pass this tonight, so that the president can sign it tomorrow, terrorists will notice.”

Iss-hole.

FISA debate: Issa arguing that the 4th amendment will “only” be raped for 6 months. 5 if you don’t count the month-long recess!

pelosi ‘07

or

Richardson/Clarke

Anybody know who is talking on Air America? Wes Clark from YKOS?

TiredFed @ 19

whoa. the law sunsets in 6 months, but anything done in that 6 months can continue for another year.

How convenient, the remainder of Bush the Lesser’s current fraudulent term.

we’re almost done with the debate. Republicans are out of time. Dems have like 5-6 minutes left.

yellowdog jim @ 23

pelosi ‘07

or

Richardson/Clarke

Oh, I’m
PELOSI 2007!

puppethead @ 25

TiredFed @ 19

whoa. the law sunsets in 6 months, but anything done in that 6 months can continue for another year.

How convenient, the remainder of Bush the Lesser’s current fraudulent term.

what a coincidence.

Mike Rogers? Ick he’s mine

TiredFed @ 26

we’re almost done with the debate. Republicans are out of time. Dems have like 5-6 minutes left.

thx

Rep. Rogers - “Have I mentioned yet today that I am an ex-FBI agent?”

Rogers sounds like Stevens explaining the toobz.

I think the message I would like to impart is that there is a lot of talent in the Democratic Party. Our candidates are an impressive lot. Take a gander at the Republican list. My gawd. Rudy, Freddy and Mittie. Larry, Curlie and Moe had talent. Rudy, Fred and Mitt don’t.

What about Kucinich and Gravel. Why are they, even right now, still being dissed.

I found it disconcerting that the “net” behaved exactly the way the MSN do.

I don’t want a group of people deciding who is “cooler” for me to vote for or listen to.

What’s up with Lansing, MI? Isn’t that a college town? Why are they electing wing-nuts to Congress like Mr Rogers?

Rogers - an A-H likes the sound of his own voice

ok, if anyone has a Dem rep’s cellphone #, now’s the time to call it.

Rogers:
“Yubba Dubba Doooo!”

My candidate was not there.

Intelligence Chairman Reyes is giving a pathetic speech to support the bill.

Republican argument? President Bush wants it. And the kicker, the Repoublican argues that EVEN THOUGH the Dems are capitulating today, they still are emboldening the terrorisits because they did not immediately cave in. Dems will never learn. Idiots.

The Capitulation enters its final stage.

Live blogging on the flip. It is only a 30 minute debate. The House adopted a special suspension for this with only a simple majority needed to pass the bill, whereas the Dem bill required 2/3 passage. A complete capitulation.

from Talkleft

Rogers: Doncha love soldiers….’course ya do.

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I musta heard wrong. thought the Speaker pro tem said the republicans were out of time. guess not.

( repunks talking about technology)

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated - the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

TiredFed @ 37

ok, if anyone has a Dem rep’s cellphone #, now’s the time to call it.

Another great idea. Let’s get together a list of these. Some of us (not me) must have contacts in DC.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 39

My candidate was not there.

hehe. mine neither.

snowbird42 @ 40

Intelligence Chairman Reyes is giving a pathetic speech to support the bill.

Republican argument? President Bush wants it. And the kicker, the Repoublican argues that EVEN THOUGH the Dems are capitulating today, they still are emboldening the terrorisits because they did not immediately cave in. Dems will never learn. Idiots.

The Capitulation enters its final stage.

Live blogging on the flip. It is only a 30 minute debate. The House adopted a special suspension for this with only a simple majority needed to pass the bill, whereas the Dem bill required 2/3 passage. A complete capitulation.

from Talkleft

crap on a christmas crutch!!

LS @ 34

What about Kucinich and Gravel. Why are they, even right now, still being dissed.

I found it disconcerting that the “net” behaved exactly the way the MSN do.

I don’t want a group of people deciding who is “cooler” for me to vote for or listen to.

Though I wasn’t able to hear it all due to net glitches .. I was very disappointed over this and the questions i did hear might as well have been on CNN.

yeh, Lansing (but my classmates aren’t paying much attention) but I know Rogers is in Brighton on up the highway (maybe more rural?)

The sound of grown (theoretically) men talking about “bad guys” makes me slightly seasick.

Received a phone call today here in NH from Hillary’s campaign. Funny thing was, the young woman that called asked if my wife was home and when I said no she told me she’d call back another time. I asked her if she had any questions for me and she seemed to get agitated, but reluctantly asked if we had decided who we’d be voting for in the primary. What I wanted to say was, “Al Gore if he’d ever decide to jump in”….what I said was, “I think I’ll be voting for John Edwards”. She promptly thanked me and hung up. She wasn’t pleasant.

I like Edwards and he’d be my choice at this point, he seems to have grown a lot since 04 and his appeal to the “other” America seems more genuine than the other candidates stump issues.

David Sirota wrote an excellent article on Obama a couple of months back that took the time to point out his record, strengths, weaknesses and a pretty candid interview to boot. I’ll see if I can dig up the link if anyone’s interested.

i missed the day’s sessions at DKOS….so i’m out of the loop for the moment - i just feel sooo let down by the senate’s action - and as someone mentioned on previous thread - the repugs ARE still in charge!! dems roll over and over and over

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated - the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

BigMitch @ 42

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

So do we, continue taking the weak cowardly behavior of our own party?
No more money from me, none. I wont make a difference but many voices will.

I like Kucinich and wonder why he’s rarely mentioned ever

Elliott @ 55

BigMitch @ 42

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

do you have a son?

INSLEE!

Does cafe press sell dixie cups with LIBERTY printed on them?

Richmond @ 54

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated - the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

Only if the Dem majority can hold the line.

Elliott @ 55

BigMitch @ 42

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

oh good, someone got in ben franklin quote.

who’s chairing this session??

Richmond @ 54

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated - the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

probably not. because the dems would need to hold together a majority in order to block the bill.

that lets this bill pass with the Rs and only a few of the Ds.

whereas last night’s bill (the dem version) was voted on with a rule suspension that required 2/3’s to pass. it was blocked with less than a majority.

unless the dems surprise me and get a majority to vote against s.1972… this means that the dems have already capitulated tonight (by the rule), and the vote will be a kabuki - it will allow lots of dems to vote “no” without risking blocking the bill.

sorry i’m not explaining this well.

Legislate in haste, repent… well, probably not in leisure.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

No. Not given the number of Yellow Dogs who’ll roll over and beg for more surveillance. I’ll give you an under/over: 250 votes for fucking over the fourth amendment.

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

I’m positive our Dems in the House will toe the Party Line!!!

snowbird42 @ 56

So do we, continue taking the weak cowardly behavior of our own party?
No more money from me, none. I wont make a difference but many voices will.

I’ve been returning Dem donation requests in the prepaid envelopes for years…. The phone callers continue to try to talk me into donating and I’ve said “not until Bush is impeached” more times than I care to count. I haven’t asked them to remove me from their lists as I want to continue giving the same message.
oh, And I’ve also said I give to Act Blue…
I don’t think they like to hear that either.

yellowdog jim @ 62

Elliott @ 55

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

wasn’t raised a Marian *shrugs*

and how many military families are missing out on graduations, bdays etc
what a duffus

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

selise @ 65

Richmond @ 54

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

probably not. because the dems would need to hold together a majority in order to block the bill.

that lets this bill pass with the Rs and only a few of the Ds.

whereas last night’s bill (the dem version) was voted on with a rule suspension that required 2/3’s to pass. it was blocked with less than a majority.

unless the dems surprise me and get a majority to vote against s.1972… this means that the dems have already capitulated tonight (by the rule), and the vote will be a kabuki - it will allow lots of dems to vote “no” without risking blocking the bill.

sorry i’m not explaining this well.

well, enough for me.

jayt @ 67

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

for a minute at the beginning, i thought we had some momentum.
fooled again.

i don’t understand why 2 different rules for the 2 different bills.

looks like the rules were set up to have the “dem” version fail and the “bush/senate” version pass.

please dems prove me wrong.

Richmond @ 54

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated - the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

The Dems are not able to hold all of their own votes. It is expected that the bill will pass, according to what I gleaned from Huffington Post. (Sorry no link.)

Scott sez bill allows U.S. to spy on diplomats? Whose? Ours of theirs?I thought we already spied on theirs.

Hillary stumbled on the issue of taking money from lobbyists but I agree with the comment above. I don’t know who all these people are that agree that she lost. I don’t think there was a clear cut winner or a clear cut loser.

If the issue is framed differently and candidates are asked if they will refuse to take large sums of special interest bundled money, how many candidates will pass that test? Will Edwards pass? Will Obama pass?

Elliott @ 55

BigMitch @ 42

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

Well, then, I apologize. Please don’t take offense.

is the consensus here that this bill will pass enlarging fisa? i have no idea as to what to expect here……….

CTuttle @ 68

I’m positive our Dems in the House will toe the Party Line!!!

I think I’m supposed to laugh…oh…guess not.

Blue Dog Mike Ross from AR will vote in fear.

Elliott @ 70

yellowdog jim @ 62

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

wasn’t raised a Marian *shrugs*

i was raised episcopalian.
it didn’t stick.

Elliott @ 74

jayt @ 67

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

for a minute at the beginning, i thought we had some momentum.
fooled again.

I’m getting the vibe that the members already know how this vote is gonna turn out. Wish I did.

Thanks Selise. Terrific explanation

jayt @ 67

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

I greatly enjoy watching the House of Common’s Prime Minister Questions! Spirited debate!!!

eCAHNomics @ 77

Scott sez bill allows U.S. to spy on diplomats? Whose? Ours of theirs?I thought we already spied on theirs.

Are we allowed to spy on ours?

silly me… I said are we allowed … as if

BigMitch @ 79

Elliott @ 55

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

Well, then, I apologize. Please don’t take offense.

I know you wouldn’t intentionally :)

selise @ 76

i don’t understand why 2 different rules for the 2 different bills.

looks like the rules were set up to have the “dem” version fail and the “bush/senate” version pass..

Yup. Because, in cricketing terms, the Dems in the Senate have a long tail. Landrieu was a study in uselessness last night, flip-flop-flipping her vote to get to 60. The fix is in.

yellowdog jim @ 72

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

Yes, it can’t be reconciled with the Senate’s bill in any viable bill for Shrub’s (veto)pen!!!

CTuttle @ 86

jayt @ 67

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

I greatly enjoy watching the House of Common’s Prime Minister Questions! Spirited debate!!!

I love the jeers and cheers, too

Yup. Absolutist elective monarchy, complete with eminence grise.

Harman, I used to be a fan.

yellowdog jim @ 72

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

well, yeah. the bill needs a simple majority to pass. the Dems have a 30 vote majority, so they just have to hold the line.

Elliott @ 91

CTuttle @ 86

I greatly enjoy watching the House of Common’s Prime Minister Questions! Spirited debate!!!

I love the jeers and cheers, too

Can you see Bush doing that? I love to watch it and I am sure he would fall on the floor and kick and scream “they are being mean to me.”

yellowdog jim @ 62

Elliott @ 55

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

Being a Mary I can truthfully state that no one is without sin.

behindthefall @ 92

Yup. Absolutist elective monarchy, complete with eminence grise.

Party Pooper!!! :P

so, Jesus and God are playing golf. Jesus hits the ball into a sandtrap.

God hits the ball and it rolls smoothly over the grass to a little stream, where it rides along on the back of a fish, until a passing bird grasps it in her talons, flies over to the hole and drops it in.

Jesus turns to God and says, “Are you gonna play golf……or are you gonna fuck around?”

CTuttle @ 90

yellowdog jim @ 72

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

Yes, it can’t be reconciled with the Senate’s bill in any viable bill for Shrub’s (veto)pen!!!

how come?
it is not the self same seante bill they passed last night?

What did Eshoo say (she’s my congresscritter)

eminence grise

My cat’s name. Emi for short.

pseudonymous in nc @ 89

selise @ 76

i don’t understand why 2 different rules for the 2 different bills.

looks like the rules were set up to have the “dem” version fail and the “bush/senate” version pass..

Yup. Because, in cricketing terms, the Dems in the Senate have a long tail. Landrieu was a study in uselessness last night, flip-flop-flipping her vote to get to 60. The fix is in.

sure looks like that way. if the leadership wanted to block the bill they would be voting on it under the same rule as last night’s “dem” version of the bill.

GO Jane!
Harman and Hamsher!

Want to show real courage Dems? Talk about public financing of campaigns. The view in this house is that the electorate would be receptive. Now is the time to do it. Biden is the only one to speak about this, to the best of our knowledge. Want good government? Public financing of elections appears to be the only credible answer.

i was raised episcopalian.
it didn’t stick.

Well, fish are slippery.

marymccurnin @ 96

yellowdog jim @ 62

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

Being a Mary I can truthfully state that no one is without sin.

NOW you tell me!

eCAHNomics @ 101

eminence grise

My cat’s name. Emi for short.

Love it.

Twain @ 95

Elliott @ 91

I love the jeers and cheers, too

Can you see Bush doing that? I love to watch it and I am sure he would fall on the floor and kick and scream “they are being mean to me.”

He’d have exerted his Monarchical, err… Executive Privilege, after the first one…!!! *g*

amazing how the repugs stand as one but the dems can be played…. and turned

yellowdog jim @ 99

CTuttle @ 90

Yes, it can’t be reconciled with the Senate’s bill in any viable bill for Shrub’s (veto)pen!!!

how come?
it is not the self same seante bill they passed last night?

Exacto Mundo!!!

David Olsen @ 105

i was raised episcopalian.
it didn’t stick.

Well, fish are slippery.

religion:

“You can lead a guitar to water,
But you can’t tuna fish.”

pleasantly surprised at Jane Harman’s impassioned speech. even after getting dissed by the Speaker, she still seems to be doing her job. bravo.

Please….ship Heather Wilson off to Iraq..Now…

Heather ever get called before the ethics committee yet?

Harman did very well yesterday too…

Reasonably believed to be outside the US… if you don’t know then you can’t do it.

yellowdog jim @ 99

CTuttle @ 90

Yes, it can’t be reconciled with the Senate’s bill in any viable bill for Shrub’s (veto)pen!!!

how come?
it is not the self same seante bill they passed last night?

The bill be debated is the one that was passed last night in the senate, with a sunset provision, and A.G. having just too much power. Heather Wilson speaking now, once did something good in her life, but tonight she is just another Republican liar.