zed

early?

I was almost caught up on the last thread, too.

Jane!

Hi Jane! Might want to find a tv or cspan.com. interesting debate over FISA going on in the House.

permission to be the first to go OT?

and revise and extend my remarks?

Thanks Jane, always a pleasure to read your insight.

Just seeing Matt Bai on the “Meet the Kossacks” video I got the impression that he’s a full-of-himself ass, and a game show is likely the best place for him. How and why was he even moderating that session? Who’s stupid idea was it to turn over the reins of running these affairs to the much-hated and much-failing corporate media personalities? Seriously, it’s a blight on YearlyKos that they allowed such a thing.

Eshoo rocks! (oops, OT already!)

Thanks Jane, Interesting wrap up. Also I thought Obama was interesting in the session afterwards.

{{{{{JANE!!!!!}}}}}

So it sounds as if Matt Bai might be angling for The Beard’s job?

edwards/richardson

Jane, we might end up hijacking your thread for the FISA debate going on in the House. Hope you don’t mind.

While it’s good to hear Obama say something he didn’t have to explain further, I’m not voting for someone on the basis of their willingness to challenge the establishment. I’m looking for someone who is going to put this country back on track and drive a stake into the creature the Bush administration created.

It also bears noting that presidents aren’t elected on the basis of their foreign policy. Carter, Reagan, Clinton & Bush all had to learn on the job when events were thrust upon them. It’s also probably no coincidence that five of the last nine presidents were governors.

btw, my sense is the Edwards hit a homer and Obama barely showed up. Hillary sounded kinda shrill and whiny. maybe just me.

Jane
Who’e the “everyone” who agreed that Hillary lost? The feedback you get from talking to the people there?

I agree that Hillary made a bad on taking finances from lobbyists. I thought Edwards was brilliant on that.

More in Anger Than in Sorrow –

Latest FaBlog: Nous Sommes Tous les Juifs Allemands

whoa. the law sunsets in 6 months, but anything done in that 6 months can continue for another year.

Issa
The constitution is not good enuf for the next 6 months.

Issa puts the squeeze spin on

Issa – “If we don’t pass this tonight, so that the president can sign it tomorrow, terrorists will notice.”

Iss-hole.

FISA debate: Issa arguing that the 4th amendment will “only” be raped for 6 months. 5 if you don’t count the month-long recess!

pelosi ‘07

or

Richardson/Clarke

Anybody know who is talking on Air America? Wes Clark from YKOS?

TiredFed @ 19

whoa. the law sunsets in 6 months, but anything done in that 6 months can continue for another year.

How convenient, the remainder of Bush the Lesser’s current fraudulent term.

we’re almost done with the debate. Republicans are out of time. Dems have like 5-6 minutes left.

yellowdog jim @ 23

pelosi ‘07

or

Richardson/Clarke

Oh, I’m
PELOSI 2007!

puppethead @ 25

TiredFed @ 19

whoa. the law sunsets in 6 months, but anything done in that 6 months can continue for another year.

How convenient, the remainder of Bush the Lesser’s current fraudulent term.

what a coincidence.

Mike Rogers? Ick he’s mine

TiredFed @ 26

we’re almost done with the debate. Republicans are out of time. Dems have like 5-6 minutes left.

thx

Rep. Rogers – “Have I mentioned yet today that I am an ex-FBI agent?”

Rogers sounds like Stevens explaining the toobz.

I think the message I would like to impart is that there is a lot of talent in the Democratic Party. Our candidates are an impressive lot. Take a gander at the Republican list. My gawd. Rudy, Freddy and Mittie. Larry, Curlie and Moe had talent. Rudy, Fred and Mitt don’t.

What about Kucinich and Gravel. Why are they, even right now, still being dissed.

I found it disconcerting that the “net” behaved exactly the way the MSN do.

I don’t want a group of people deciding who is “cooler” for me to vote for or listen to.

What’s up with Lansing, MI? Isn’t that a college town? Why are they electing wing-nuts to Congress like Mr Rogers?

Rogers – an A-H likes the sound of his own voice

ok, if anyone has a Dem rep’s cellphone #, now’s the time to call it.

Rogers:
“Yubba Dubba Doooo!”

My candidate was not there.

Intelligence Chairman Reyes is giving a pathetic speech to support the bill.

Republican argument? President Bush wants it. And the kicker, the Repoublican argues that EVEN THOUGH the Dems are capitulating today, they still are emboldening the terrorisits because they did not immediately cave in. Dems will never learn. Idiots.

The Capitulation enters its final stage.

Live blogging on the flip. It is only a 30 minute debate. The House adopted a special suspension for this with only a simple majority needed to pass the bill, whereas the Dem bill required 2/3 passage. A complete capitulation.

from Talkleft

Rogers: Doncha love soldiers….’course ya do.

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I musta heard wrong. thought the Speaker pro tem said the republicans were out of time. guess not.

( repunks talking about technology)

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated – the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

TiredFed @ 37

ok, if anyone has a Dem rep’s cellphone #, now’s the time to call it.

Another great idea. Let’s get together a list of these. Some of us (not me) must have contacts in DC.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 39

My candidate was not there.

hehe. mine neither.

snowbird42 @ 40

Intelligence Chairman Reyes is giving a pathetic speech to support the bill.

Republican argument? President Bush wants it. And the kicker, the Repoublican argues that EVEN THOUGH the Dems are capitulating today, they still are emboldening the terrorisits because they did not immediately cave in. Dems will never learn. Idiots.

The Capitulation enters its final stage.

Live blogging on the flip. It is only a 30 minute debate. The House adopted a special suspension for this with only a simple majority needed to pass the bill, whereas the Dem bill required 2/3 passage. A complete capitulation.

from Talkleft

crap on a christmas crutch!!

LS @ 34

What about Kucinich and Gravel. Why are they, even right now, still being dissed.

I found it disconcerting that the “net” behaved exactly the way the MSN do.

I don’t want a group of people deciding who is “cooler” for me to vote for or listen to.

Though I wasn’t able to hear it all due to net glitches .. I was very disappointed over this and the questions i did hear might as well have been on CNN.

yeh, Lansing (but my classmates aren’t paying much attention) but I know Rogers is in Brighton on up the highway (maybe more rural?)

The sound of grown (theoretically) men talking about “bad guys” makes me slightly seasick.

Received a phone call today here in NH from Hillary’s campaign. Funny thing was, the young woman that called asked if my wife was home and when I said no she told me she’d call back another time. I asked her if she had any questions for me and she seemed to get agitated, but reluctantly asked if we had decided who we’d be voting for in the primary. What I wanted to say was, “Al Gore if he’d ever decide to jump in”….what I said was, “I think I’ll be voting for John Edwards”. She promptly thanked me and hung up. She wasn’t pleasant.

I like Edwards and he’d be my choice at this point, he seems to have grown a lot since 04 and his appeal to the “other” America seems more genuine than the other candidates stump issues.

David Sirota wrote an excellent article on Obama a couple of months back that took the time to point out his record, strengths, weaknesses and a pretty candid interview to boot. I’ll see if I can dig up the link if anyone’s interested.

i missed the day’s sessions at DKOS….so i’m out of the loop for the moment – i just feel sooo let down by the senate’s action – and as someone mentioned on previous thread – the repugs ARE still in charge!! dems roll over and over and over

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated – the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

BigMitch @ 42

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

So do we, continue taking the weak cowardly behavior of our own party?
No more money from me, none. I wont make a difference but many voices will.

I like Kucinich and wonder why he’s rarely mentioned ever

Elliott @ 55

BigMitch @ 42

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

do you have a son?

INSLEE!

Does cafe press sell dixie cups with LIBERTY printed on them?

Richmond @ 54

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated – the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

Only if the Dem majority can hold the line.

Elliott @ 55

BigMitch @ 42

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

oh good, someone got in ben franklin quote.

who’s chairing this session??

Richmond @ 54

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated – the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

probably not. because the dems would need to hold together a majority in order to block the bill.

that lets this bill pass with the Rs and only a few of the Ds.

whereas last night’s bill (the dem version) was voted on with a rule suspension that required 2/3’s to pass. it was blocked with less than a majority.

unless the dems surprise me and get a majority to vote against s.1972… this means that the dems have already capitulated tonight (by the rule), and the vote will be a kabuki – it will allow lots of dems to vote “no” without risking blocking the bill.

sorry i’m not explaining this well.

Legislate in haste, repent… well, probably not in leisure.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

No. Not given the number of Yellow Dogs who’ll roll over and beg for more surveillance. I’ll give you an under/over: 250 votes for fucking over the fourth amendment.

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

I’m positive our Dems in the House will toe the Party Line!!!

snowbird42 @ 56

So do we, continue taking the weak cowardly behavior of our own party?
No more money from me, none. I wont make a difference but many voices will.

I’ve been returning Dem donation requests in the prepaid envelopes for years…. The phone callers continue to try to talk me into donating and I’ve said “not until Bush is impeached” more times than I care to count. I haven’t asked them to remove me from their lists as I want to continue giving the same message.
oh, And I’ve also said I give to Act Blue…
I don’t think they like to hear that either.

yellowdog jim @ 62

Elliott @ 55

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

wasn’t raised a Marian *shrugs*

and how many military families are missing out on graduations, bdays etc
what a duffus

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

selise @ 65

Richmond @ 54

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

probably not. because the dems would need to hold together a majority in order to block the bill.

that lets this bill pass with the Rs and only a few of the Ds.

whereas last night’s bill (the dem version) was voted on with a rule suspension that required 2/3’s to pass. it was blocked with less than a majority.

unless the dems surprise me and get a majority to vote against s.1972… this means that the dems have already capitulated tonight (by the rule), and the vote will be a kabuki – it will allow lots of dems to vote “no” without risking blocking the bill.

sorry i’m not explaining this well.

well, enough for me.

jayt @ 67

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

for a minute at the beginning, i thought we had some momentum.
fooled again.

i don’t understand why 2 different rules for the 2 different bills.

looks like the rules were set up to have the “dem” version fail and the “bush/senate” version pass.

please dems prove me wrong.

Richmond @ 54

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated – the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

I heard that too. But simple majority would mean the Dems win. No?

The Dems are not able to hold all of their own votes. It is expected that the bill will pass, according to what I gleaned from Huffington Post. (Sorry no link.)

Scott sez bill allows U.S. to spy on diplomats? Whose? Ours of theirs?I thought we already spied on theirs.

Hillary stumbled on the issue of taking money from lobbyists but I agree with the comment above. I don’t know who all these people are that agree that she lost. I don’t think there was a clear cut winner or a clear cut loser.

If the issue is framed differently and candidates are asked if they will refuse to take large sums of special interest bundled money, how many candidates will pass that test? Will Edwards pass? Will Obama pass?

Elliott @ 55

BigMitch @ 42

On the last thread, someone brought up the Jesus line, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Everyone remembers that line, but few people remember what happened next.

A huge stone was hurled from the gathered crowd, and hit the harlot right in the face. Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “You know, Mom, sometimes you really piss me off.”

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

Well, then, I apologize. Please don’t take offense.

is the consensus here that this bill will pass enlarging fisa? i have no idea as to what to expect here……….

CTuttle @ 68

I’m positive our Dems in the House will toe the Party Line!!!

I think I’m supposed to laugh…oh…guess not.

Blue Dog Mike Ross from AR will vote in fear.

Elliott @ 70

yellowdog jim @ 62

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

wasn’t raised a Marian *shrugs*

i was raised episcopalian.
it didn’t stick.

Elliott @ 74

jayt @ 67

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

for a minute at the beginning, i thought we had some momentum.
fooled again.

I’m getting the vibe that the members already know how this vote is gonna turn out. Wish I did.

Thanks Selise. Terrific explanation

jayt @ 67

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

I greatly enjoy watching the House of Common’s Prime Minister Questions! Spirited debate!!!

eCAHNomics @ 77

Scott sez bill allows U.S. to spy on diplomats? Whose? Ours of theirs?I thought we already spied on theirs.

Are we allowed to spy on ours?

silly me… I said are we allowed … as if

BigMitch @ 79

Elliott @ 55

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

Well, then, I apologize. Please don’t take offense.

I know you wouldn’t intentionally :)

selise @ 76

i don’t understand why 2 different rules for the 2 different bills.

looks like the rules were set up to have the “dem” version fail and the “bush/senate” version pass..

Yup. Because, in cricketing terms, the Dems in the Senate have a long tail. Landrieu was a study in uselessness last night, flip-flop-flipping her vote to get to 60. The fix is in.

yellowdog jim @ 72

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

Yes, it can’t be reconciled with the Senate’s bill in any viable bill for Shrub’s (veto)pen!!!

CTuttle @ 86

jayt @ 67

This is all rather lifeless, which I truly don’t understand.

I greatly enjoy watching the House of Common’s Prime Minister Questions! Spirited debate!!!

I love the jeers and cheers, too

Yup. Absolutist elective monarchy, complete with eminence grise.

Harman, I used to be a fan.

yellowdog jim @ 72

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

well, yeah. the bill needs a simple majority to pass. the Dems have a 30 vote majority, so they just have to hold the line.

Elliott @ 91

CTuttle @ 86

I greatly enjoy watching the House of Common’s Prime Minister Questions! Spirited debate!!!

I love the jeers and cheers, too

Can you see Bush doing that? I love to watch it and I am sure he would fall on the floor and kick and scream “they are being mean to me.”

yellowdog jim @ 62

Elliott @ 55

I actually didn’t think that was funny.

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

Being a Mary I can truthfully state that no one is without sin.

behindthefall @ 92

Yup. Absolutist elective monarchy, complete with eminence grise.

Party Pooper!!! :P

so, Jesus and God are playing golf. Jesus hits the ball into a sandtrap.

God hits the ball and it rolls smoothly over the grass to a little stream, where it rides along on the back of a fish, until a passing bird grasps it in her talons, flies over to the hole and drops it in.

Jesus turns to God and says, “Are you gonna play golf……or are you gonna fuck around?”

CTuttle @ 90

yellowdog jim @ 72

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

Yes, it can’t be reconciled with the Senate’s bill in any viable bill for Shrub’s (veto)pen!!!

how come?
it is not the self same seante bill they passed last night?

What did Eshoo say (she’s my congresscritter)

eminence grise

My cat’s name. Emi for short.

pseudonymous in nc @ 89

selise @ 76

i don’t understand why 2 different rules for the 2 different bills.

looks like the rules were set up to have the “dem” version fail and the “bush/senate” version pass..

Yup. Because, in cricketing terms, the Dems in the Senate have a long tail. Landrieu was a study in uselessness last night, flip-flop-flipping her vote to get to 60. The fix is in.

sure looks like that way. if the leadership wanted to block the bill they would be voting on it under the same rule as last night’s “dem” version of the bill.

GO Jane!
Harman and Hamsher!

Want to show real courage Dems? Talk about public financing of campaigns. The view in this house is that the electorate would be receptive. Now is the time to do it. Biden is the only one to speak about this, to the best of our knowledge. Want good government? Public financing of elections appears to be the only credible answer.

i was raised episcopalian.
it didn’t stick.

Well, fish are slippery.

marymccurnin @ 96

yellowdog jim @ 62

i kind of like the play on Mary being without sin.

Being a Mary I can truthfully state that no one is without sin.

NOW you tell me!

eCAHNomics @ 101

eminence grise

My cat’s name. Emi for short.

Love it.

Twain @ 95

Elliott @ 91

I love the jeers and cheers, too

Can you see Bush doing that? I love to watch it and I am sure he would fall on the floor and kick and scream “they are being mean to me.”

He’d have exerted his Monarchical, err… Executive Privilege, after the first one…!!! *g*

amazing how the repugs stand as one but the dems can be played…. and turned

yellowdog jim @ 99

CTuttle @ 90

Yes, it can’t be reconciled with the Senate’s bill in any viable bill for Shrub’s (veto)pen!!!

how come?
it is not the self same seante bill they passed last night?

Exacto Mundo!!!

David Olsen @ 105

i was raised episcopalian.
it didn’t stick.

Well, fish are slippery.

religion:

“You can lead a guitar to water,
But you can’t tuna fish.”

pleasantly surprised at Jane Harman’s impassioned speech. even after getting dissed by the Speaker, she still seems to be doing her job. bravo.

Please….ship Heather Wilson off to Iraq..Now…

Heather ever get called before the ethics committee yet?

Harman did very well yesterday too…

Reasonably believed to be outside the US… if you don’t know then you can’t do it.

yellowdog jim @ 99

CTuttle @ 90

Yes, it can’t be reconciled with the Senate’s bill in any viable bill for Shrub’s (veto)pen!!!

how come?
it is not the self same seante bill they passed last night?

The bill be debated is the one that was passed last night in the senate, with a sunset provision, and A.G. having just too much power. Heather Wilson speaking now, once did something good in her life, but tonight she is just another Republican liar.

behindthefall @ 107

eCAHNomics @ 101

My cat’s name. Emi for short.

Love it.

excellently cat-like.
exquisitely feline.

Heather Wilson is not going to make me feel that the law is going to do what is lawful given her background using the DoJ to subvert justice.

yeah like you all have seen what the tax rebates have done and still want them extended
We know once implemented, things are hard to roll back

(Heather said “technology.”)

oddmommy @ 98

so, Jesus and God are playing golf. Jesus hits the ball into a sandtrap.

God hits the ball and it rolls smoothly over the grass to a little stream, where it rides along on the back of a fish, until a passing bird grasps it in her talons, flies over to the hole and drops it in.

Jesus turns to God and says, “Are you gonna play golf……or are you gonna fuck around?”

I like your joke. But why, today, in 2007, does anyone take jesus or god (except in a personal way) seriously?

bad vibe is growing here…

Heather (Heather?) Wilson saying bill only applies to *persons* outside the United States.

Like Americans outside the United States?

Heather Wilson helped a USA lose his job. She is a snake.

and spun and spun and spun

Would someone please explain to me the pretense
that we’re not already conducting modern listening activities? That our armed forces
are somehow sitting there waiting for permission? Why doesn’t someone say this?

We did have intercept intel pre 9-11
(what we did/not do with it is another thread)
How are we catching “2nd in command” AQ?
How did we catch the (cough) Miami-cell?
The (cough) “Fort Dix-cell”

Stateside, overseas, modern technology.

(Tommy Lee voice)
What wanton hubris is this?

i wish someone would say that this administration is dangerously incompetent. that they are incapable of acting effectively to keep the country safe without oversight. it is the oversight that can help keep them on track.

legislation that turns oversight of our security to alberto gonzales is doomed. this is an AG who when asked about his actions as AG replied over 70 times with “i do not recall”.

we should not agree to turn our safety over to an incompetent hack. keep our country safe with judicial oversight.

hmmm. didn’t Heather once call her local U.S. Attorney and ask if he wasn’t going to take care of her opponent in the next election?

juslin @ 109

amazing how the repugs stand as one but the dems can be played…. and turned

I’ll reiterate: “…it’ll be a looong Summer!!!” There will be some serious Barbequing of some congresscritters, hosted in their ‘Honor’!!! *g*

My dear Ms. Wilson- one phrase to remember for your future re-election chances:

David Iglesias & what he knows

selise @ 127

i wish someone would say that this administration is dangerously incompetent. that they are incapable of acting effectively to keep the country safe without oversight. it is the oversight that can help keep them on track.

legislation that turns oversight of our security to alberto gonzales is doomed. this is an AG who when asked about his actions as AG replied over 70 times with “i do not recall”.

we should not agree to turn our safety over to an incompetent hack. keep our country safe with judicial oversight.

ask and you shall receive. Mel Watt, D-NC.

TiredFed @ 128

hmmm. didn’t Heather once call her local U.S. Attorney and ask if he wasn’t going to take care of her opponent in the next election?

I seem to remember something about that,
hmmm..

Elliott @ 114

Heather ever get called before the ethics committee yet?

She did have an ethics issue, but I can’t remember what it was. Can you?

say it ‘THAT F-ing CROOK alberto gonzales”

Elliott @ 114

Heather ever get called before the ethics committee yet?

Ethics Committee? How about has she been indicted for obstruction of justice?

I hate that we have to hear “Big Victory for Bush”
I hate that though we are the majority we snivel and crawl.

Jonathan @ 122
Feisty today, huh!

As your candidate for prez, I thought you might enjoy this Dawkins quote (and has any other presidential candidate given you more?):

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynist, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, capriciously malevolent bully.

Rep Watt doesn’t think anyone is paying attention to this.
His phone must be out of order.

BigMitch @ 133

Elliott @ 114

Heather ever get called before the ethics committee yet?

She did have an ethics issue, but I can’t remember what it was. Can you?

hmmm..

Franklin again. Rub it in.

i don’t think it makes us safer if our intelligence community and technology are diverted from what they should be doing so that they can spy on quakers and political enemies.

so let’s vote already.

lets not librrty lost

To repeal the Fourth Amendment, the states must concur, for starters. To pretend we can now amend the Constitution by merely passing legislation is the grimmest joke of all.

This one was set up yesterday between Reid and Pelosi (sunny was right), at Cheney’s command. The fix was in. It’s on their heads. Do not let Pelosi and Reid pass the buck. These games with the rules are a joke and a travesty to mislead the American public. We are being “led” by moral midgets.

The Constitution still stands. Time to take this new FISA “law” to court for overturning, as an open violation of the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment.

selise @ 127

i wish someone would say that this administration is dangerously incompetent. that they are incapable of acting effectively to keep the country safe without oversight. it is the oversight that can help keep them on track.

legislation that turns oversight of our security to alberto gonzales is doomed. this is an AG who when asked about his actions as AG replied over 70 times with “i do not recall”.

we should not agree to turn our safety over to an incompetent hack. keep our country safe with judicial oversight.

And due to even the slightest possibility of another administration like Nixon Bushco in the future.. we can never justify relinquishing our liberty to the hands of a few.

eCAHNomics @ 137

Jonathan @ 122
Feisty today, huh!

As your candidate for prez, I thought you might enjoy this Dawkins quote (and has any other presidential candidate given you more?):

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynist, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, capriciously malevolent bully.

Hey, eCAHN. Despite your comment, I”ll still vote for you.

Every Dem has stated it’s an assault on our Constitution!!! A positive sign!!!

whooo hoo, he’s not even well meaning
resign AGAG

Elliott @ 139

BigMitch @ 133

She did have an ethics issue, but I can’t remember what it was. Can you?

hmmm..

Ethics. Heather is a slimy whore who would blow a 7-11 clerk for a bombpop as long as he was a republican.

((((((((((((( Keith Ellison)))))))))))))))

pow wow @ 144

These games with the rules are a joke and a travesty to mislead the American public.

gaming the rules inorder to deceive me really, really pisses me off.

happened on the iraq supplemental too.

marymccurnin @ 149

Elliott @ 139

hmmm..

Ethics. Heather is a slimy whore who would blow a 7-11 clerk for a bombpop as long as he was a republican.

yowza! love it!

terror threat this and terror threat that:

how scared am i supposed to be?

i grew up knowing, as a child, that our whole world lived under the glare of the threat of thermonuclear destruction and the terror of communist spies under every bed.

i wasn’t scared then.

i am scared now because cheneyBu$hco are the threat.

and our bridges.

Ellison reading the 4th Amendment verbatim – good move. Also making the point I made above – it’s *persons* outside the U.S., which can and will include U.S. citizens.

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..38;Code=CS

Don’t know if this link will work for all, but is where I am watching on the internet.

The thing that we in this house find so bothersome about politics today can be summed up in one word. Lobbyists. Until you treat this disease, the symptoms will not disappear.

Elliott @ 139

BigMitch @ 133

She did have an ethics issue, but I can’t remember what it was. Can you?

hmmm..

Marie Roget, appropriately given her name, has solved this mystery. Heather Wilson played an unseemly role in the firing of Inglesias, the U.S. Attorney from her state of N. Mex.

marymccurnin @ 149

Elliott @ 139

hmmm..

Ethics. Heather is a slimy whore who would blow a 7-11 clerk for a bombpop as long as he was a republican.

Isn’t Mz Wilson a repug to begin with? IIRCC!!!

Joe Sestak! Go Joe!

Ethics. Heather is a slimy whore who would blow a 7-11 clerk for a bombpop as long as he was a republican.

OMG – BWAAAAHAAAHAAAHAA!

current repug blatherer: “Don’t be hatin’ on the AGAG”

Hate? these pukes beat all

Wow, it’s Todd Batshit (R-NRA).

yellowdog jim @ 153

terror threat this and terror threat that:

how scared am i supposed to be?

i grew up knowing, as a child, that our whole world lived under the glare of the threat of thermonuclear destruction and the terror of communist spies under every bed.

i wasn’t scared then.

i am scared now because cheneyBu$hco are the threat.

and our bridges.

I was scared to death of a nuclear holocaust in the 1950s. I’m not scared of terrorists.

Clinton did it, too!

Oh god. Now it’s time to refer to Clinton.

I hear lotsa hate from that guy’s gob.

Rep Tiahrt answering the age-old question – “what’s the matter with Kansas”?

Heather Wilson was one of the two who made phone calls re Iglesias, n’est pas?

“Legislation should not be based on hate.”
Right.
It should be based on reason and morality.

pseudonymous in nc @ 163

Wow, it’s Todd Batshit (R-NRA).

gee! I didn’t know it was all those Dems doing the leaking!

oh that’s right – Boehner’s a D (/snark)

Oklahoma kiddo @ 156

The thing that we in this house find so bothersome about politics today can be summed up in one word. Lobbyists. Until you treat this disease, the symptoms will not disappear.

OKK: Here’s a fact: There is a lobbyist for every 10,000 words in the tax code. P.S. When Reagan supposedly shortened the tax code, my version just about doubled in size.

We think HRC is vulnerable to the ‘money from lobbyists attack’. Are there any Demo candidates who don’t take money from special interests?

pow wow @ 144

To repeal the Fourth Amendment, the states must concur, for starters. To pretend we can now amend the Constitution by merely passing legislation is the grimmest joke of all.

This one was set up yesterday between Reid and Pelosi (sunny was right), at Cheney’s command. The fix was in. It’s on their heads. Do not let Pelosi and Reid pass the buck. These games with the rules are a joke and a travesty to mislead the American public. We are being “led” by moral midgets.

The Constitution still stands. Time to take this new FISA “law” to court for overturning, as an open violation of the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment.

Amen, amen!
i whoreblog here.

TiredFed @ 165

Clinton did it, too!

Tired Fed,

I meant blondie on the tele, not you.

:)

Who is this Tiahrt fool? We’re not reading emails and listening to phone calls like we used to because of “leaks and lawsuits from liberal democrats”? WTF is he talking about?

eCAHNomics @ 169

Heather Wilson was one of the two who made phone calls re Iglesias, n’est pas?

yes

TiredFed @ 165

Clinton did it, too!

What? Got a blow job from Heather?

Hmmm… Prime Time TV!!! 21:47 EST!!!

Despite all Steny’s faults, he is a hell of a fine orator.

eCAHNomics @ 169

Heather Wilson was one of the two who made phone calls re Iglesias, n’est pas?

mais, oui.

nonplussed @ 180

Despite all Steny’s faults, he is a hell of a fine orator.

I’ve enjoyed listening to him these past days

BigMitch @ 157

Elliott @ 139

hmmm..

Marie Roget, appropriately given her name, has solved this mystery. Heather Wilson played an unseemly role in the firing of Inglesias, the U.S. Attorney from her state of N. Mex.

And my guess is that Iglesias could blow her out of the water in a heartbeat if he ever tells everything. He knows her pretty well outside of the firing- campaigned w/her when he was running for NM AG. Oh, & did I mention he seems really pissed off @ being summarily fired…

Wow. We have been granted such power….The Repewksths have ordainedeth that:

Who so doth not passeth the King’s wishes tonight, is forever responsible for the actions of all terrorists who attacketh us.

GET THAT!!

Who ith the terrorith??????

Oklahoma kiddo @ 173

We think HRC is vulnerable to the ‘money from lobbyists attack’. Are there any Demo candidates who don’t take money from special interests?

When Republicans controlled both houses, and marched in lockstep, any lobbyist would naturally regard money to Dems as unnecessary and even wasted. Couple this with the K Street project, Thom Delay’s full employment for Repub lobbyists activities, and you can see why the Dems are much less vulnerable. But HRC has issues that go back to when the Dems were in control during WJC’s administration. Also, she tried to achieve health reform while in the Senate and received a lot of money from Big Pharma. (She worked with Newt on this, interestingly.) She also is Rupert Murdoch’s favorite Democrat.

nonplussed @ 180

Despite all Steny’s faults, he is a hell of a fine orator.

Sorry, I think he’s a gasbag.

yellowdog jim @ 153

terror threat this and terror threat that:

how scared am i supposed to be?

i grew up knowing, as a child, that our whole world lived under the glare of the threat of thermonuclear destruction and the terror of communist spies under every bed.

i wasn’t scared then.

i am scared now because cheneyBu$hco are the threat.

and our bridges.

I was scared for a while about The Bomb, because we didn’t have a basement. Then I forgot about it and tried to learn subtraction and jump rope rhymes.

Hoyer just conceeded defeat.

Hoyer has counted his votes, they’re all in his fob’s pocket!!! *g*

eCAHNomics @ 188

Hoyer just conceeded defeat.

that’s what it sounded like to me…

Steny is talking about what is gonna need to be done in six months.

Not good.

Todd Tiahrt is a moron. He just blamed Clinton for Ruby Ridge, which took place when Bush 41 was in office.

Congress is full of jokers.

Valley Girl @ 186

nonplussed @ 180

Despite all Steny’s faults, he is a hell of a fine orator.

Sorry, I think he’s a gasbag.

Here’s a gasbag!

listening to Steny, sounds like he thinks they’ve lost already.

eCAHNomics @ 188

Hoyer just conceeded defeat.

Hoyer, Peolosi, et al have no, zero, sense of duty to the American people. Fuck these guys.

Hide your liquor, Boehner’s up.

Northwest Gal @ 175

TiredFed @ 165

Clinton did it, too!

Tired Fed,

I meant blondie on the tele, not you.

:)

haha. I was talking about the Repub reference to Clinton’s AG and the disaster at Waco.

Oh alright. I admit I lazed out. Does anyone have a link to how much, and from whom, each Democratic presidential candidate received from any lobbyist?

Boehner’s all flush with victory…

yuck.

Instead of streamling the intelligence toobz, the repubs would rather suck up anything & everything in sight. Seems to me they just end up with a clogged & plugged mess just the same as everything else they lay their hands on. Keystone Kops on meth.

nonplussed @ 193

Valley Girl @ 186

Sorry, I think he’s a gasbag.

Here’s a gasbag!

him TOO! but he’s a R.

eCAHNomics @ 188

Hoyer just conceeded defeat.

Effing hell. Fear trumps liberty, & all…

I think I would welcome a chip in my brain that would enable me NOT to see what a profound mess we are in.

Ignorance at this point in history would surely be bliss.

I believe I am watching a theatrical exercise. I still think the fix is in, but I realize I know nothing anymore.

Boehner is not crying … yet.

So dont support the Dems anymore financially.

Our troops, the beacons of hope and opportunity. Gonna win the war against terrorism (the perpetual war generates perpetual profits.) We all know there is a heightened threat. We need to modernize the supersecret system we have.

eCAHNomics @ 164

yellowdog jim @ 153

terror threat this and terror threat that:

how scared am i supposed to be?

i grew up knowing, as a child, that our whole world lived under the glare of the threat of thermonuclear destruction and the terror of communist spies under every bed.

i wasn’t scared then.

i am scared now because cheneyBu$hco are the threat.

and our bridges.

I was scared to death of a nuclear holocaust in the 1950s. I’m not scared of terrorists.

i got your terrorists right here.
anyone ever heard of William J. Krar?
KLTV

“This was a huge arsenal,” said Assistant U.S. Attorney Brit Featherston, “absolutely a huge arsenal of military style weapons.”

Found in Noonday were hundreds of bombs and machine guns, and 500,000 rounds of ammunition. The inventory list of what was found is extensive. But the most startling discovery was the combination of sodium cyanide, acid and gunpowder. Mixed together it becomes a lethal chemical bomb capable of killing everyone inside a 30,000 square foot building. Authorities believed Krar a threat to national security, suspecting him of being a part of a “criminal scheme” to violently attack the U.S. Government.

more chemical weapons than saddam hussein.
they found these guys by accident.

Methinks we’re fucked.

Clapping for Boehner, but none for Hoyer. Sounds like the Ds aren’t even in the chamber.

marymccurnin @ 178

TiredFed @ 165

Clinton did it, too!

What? Got a blow job from Heather?

mind you, a bj is a wonderful thing, but I wouldn’t wish that on anyone (a bj from Heather).

I like Debbie!

Eureka Springs @ 196

Hide your liquor, Boehner’s up.

Boehner is a Republican, and a cry baby. Plus I don’t like him.

OldCoastie @ 199

Boehner’s all flush with victory…

yuck.

****** Icky *****

Jonathan @ 195

eCAHNomics @ 188

Hoyer just conceeded defeat.

Hoyer, Peolosi, et al have no, zero, sense of duty to the American people. Fuck these guys.

Bingo….the last throes.

oops. is it late night yet?

Debbie Wasserman Schultz — you go Woman!

weak as water, they are weak as water!

gonna go listen to Conyers.

I think I would welcome a chip in my brain that would enable me NOT to see what a profound mess we are in.

From an earlier thread, it sounds like Wal-mart could take care of your needs.

Why do they have so little time to speak? This is pretty important stuff, no?

voting now…

Now we shall see!!! 8-(

Let’s deregulate intelligence and each of us monitor ourselves – you know, like corporations. I figure if they can monitor themselves so can the people. Same difference. It will save the pain of listening to this shame of a debate.

Northwest Gal @ 220

Why do they have so little time to speak? This is pretty important stuff, no?

They want to go on vacation where their people are dumb and scared

Chairman called it for the “yea”s, recorded vote happening now.

Better Franklin quote for tonight: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

oooh. they get kinda raucous on a Sat nite in the House, don’t they?

QuakerGirl @ 223

Let’s deregulate intelligence and each of us monitor ourselves – you know, like corporations. I figure if they can monitor themselves so can the people. Same difference. It will save the pain of listening to this shame of a debate.

scanner darkly

Who is the lame brain in the tan suit pounding the gavel and stating the winner of voice votes before they have been made?

Elliott @ 217

weak as water, they are weak as water!

Why isn’t every single Dem standing up and demanding liberty? oh, right.

QuakerGirl @ 223

Let’s deregulate intelligence and each of us monitor ourselves – you know, like corporations. I figure if they can monitor themselves so can the people. Same difference. It will save the pain of listening to this shame of a debate.

Better still, let the terrorists monitor themselves.

TiredFed @ 226

oooh. they get kinda raucous on a Sat nite in the House, don’t they?

but they look less drunk that last night.

5 dems so far!

BigMitch @ 216

Debbie Wasserman Schultz — you go Woman!

she was good.

eCAHNomics @ 219

I think I would welcome a chip in my brain that would enable me NOT to see what a profound mess we are in.

From an earlier thread, it sounds like Wal-mart could take care of your needs.

That was my comment…I think that is where I got the idea :P

Right now, though, I’m horrified.

Shit. 5 fence-jumpers already.

Eureka Springs @ 229

Elliott @ 217

weak as water, they are weak as water!

Why isn’t every single Dem standing up and demanding liberty? oh, right.

No more money for Dems, none

god these dems cant win shit!!! hoyer all but said so – how pathetic

bmaz @ 228

Who is the lame brain in the tan suit pounding the gavel and stating the winner of voice votes before they have been made?

And he sure was rude to Debbie.

We are witnessing the death of the United States. Why is a vote even needed?

CTuttle @ 232

5 dems so far!

how many can we spare?

7???

I thought we were in the majority.

yellowdog jim @ 240

CTuttle @ 232

5 dems so far!

how many can we spare?

15

Oh well. If you can’t trust the Attorney General, who can you trust?

8

TiredFed @ 243

yellowdog jim @ 240

how many can we spare?

15

thx

7 – someone musta changed their vote.

jesus h. christ. Is there such a thing as a Republican with a mind of his/her own?

went back to 7!

All Hail King GWB43.com. The country is pretty much lost.

All Hail King GWB43.com, King of the Homeland.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Homeland…

It is over.

God Bless America. R.I.P.

OldCoastie @ 247

7 – someone musta changed their vote.

Amen!!!

You know when Kerry doesn’t show up to vote in the Senate on FISA that the fix is in. I think the idea is to make every thing stick to Bush and rethugs. They think they can take the country back later. I wouldn’t stake much money on it.

For the first time in two weeks I see the top of my table. I’m going to enjoy dinner. Will check in later. Later you routy freedom lover….

snowbird42 @ 242

I thought we were in the majority.

hahaha. i’m gonna cry now.

keep in mind this vote is of members present and voting. a simple majority carries the day.

10

damn: 9;

10

yellowdogjim @ 207
That’s an amazing story & I have no memory of it. Whatever happened? Did they find more conspirators? What were they planning to do with all that sh*t?

Why can’t sanyone on the tv sum up the FISA law this way? It was created because Nixon spied on his political opponents. The job of a FISA judge is to stop future presidents from spying on their political opponents.

As long as our intelligence agencies are listening in on people who may be terrorists, it’s all ok.

The fact that the Bush administration started going around FISA judges early on is a very bad sign.

selise @ 254

snowbird42 @ 242

I thought we were in the majority.

hahaha. i’m gonna cry now.

me too

LS @ 250

All Hail King GWB43.com. The country is pretty much lost.

All Hail King GWB43.com, King of the Homeland.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Homeland…

It is over.

God Bless America. R.I.P.

Hiel Der Fuehrer Bush. Sieg hiel!

Chimpy’s on. Hit the mute button.

Pelosi broke bread with the devil.

Even the Evangelists will tell you never to do that.

selise @ 254

snowbird42 @ 242

I thought we were in the majority.

hahaha. i’m gonna cry now.

aw. selise, you know we can’t win every battle. rest up tomorrow. next week we get to see if Karl gets cited with contempt!

TiredFed @ 255

keep in mind this vote is of members present and voting. a simple majority carries the day.

It’s Saturday night. Dems went out for a little fun!

snowbird42 @ 224

Northwest Gal @ 220

Why do they have so little time to speak? This is pretty important stuff, no?

They want to go on vacation where their people are dumb and scared

Damn, I knew it! (shaking head side to side)

selise @ 254

snowbird42 @ 242

I thought we were in the majority.

hahaha. i’m gonna cry now.

i’m going to wait.
cry later.

11

Aargh, 10!!!

TiredFed @ 255

keep in mind this vote is of members present and voting. a simple majority carries the day.

It maybe that the more cowardly Demss just decide not to show up.

TheOtherWA @ 259

Why can’t sanyone on the tv sum up the FISA law this way? It was created because Nixon spied on his political opponents. The job of a FISA judge is to stop future presidents from spying on their political opponents.

As long as our intelligence agencies are listening in on people who may be terrorists, it’s all ok.

The fact that the Bush administration started going around FISA judges early on is a very bad sign.

Ding!

OldCoastie @ 268

11

Double Aargh!!!

Richmond @ 252

You know when Kerry doesn’t show up to vote in the Senate on FISA that the fix is in. I think the idea is to make every thing stick to Bush and rethugs. They think they can take the country back later. I wouldn’t stake much money on it.

didn’t dean just tell us that dems put country before party?

wish congressional leadership believed that.

who is our damn whip?

shit, 12

They’re taxing oil companies while they steal our freedoms.

OldCoastie @ 274

who is our damn whip?

Hoyer

OldCoastie @ 274

who is our damn whip?

whupped

wtf is up with Dems voting yea??

What do we do now?

14

TiredFed @ 264

selise @ 254

hahaha. i’m gonna cry now.

aw. selise, you know we can’t win every battle. rest up tomorrow. next week we get to see if Karl gets cited with contempt!

strangely enough, it’s not loosing that bothers me so much. it’s giving up without a fight.

15!!!!

weepLS @ 280

What do we do now?

weep

then tomorrow pull on our boots once again

(((((((((Valley Girl!)))))))))))))))

fuckety fuck – 16…

Pelosi is toast.

Liberty dies with a whimper tonight.

This sounds fairly dispositive. From thinkprogress:

Giuliani’s former anti-terrorism chief voices stern criticism. Rudy Guiliani’s former emergency management director, Jerome Hauer, blamed the former mayor for “locating the city’s crisis control room in the World Trade Centre complex, even though it was a known terrorist target after the 1993 truck bomb attack which killed six people at the site.” Hauer said Giuliani rejected a facility in Brooklyn in favor of because “the mayor himself made clear that the site had to be walking distance from City Hall.” He added, “Rudy would make a terrible president and that is why I am speaking now.” 10:05 pm | Comment (0)

Where do we go from here?

the responsibility for ensuring Democrats toe the party line rests with the leadership: Madam Speaker, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Democratic Whip James Clyburn. What say we light up their phone lines and email inboxes tomorrow and Monday?

I’m convinced the pukers have threatened the dems with loss of life or limb

I like Dodd.

LS @ 287

Pelosi is toast.

I hope everyone on this site agrees.

TiredFed @ 291

the responsibility for ensuring Democrats toe the party line rests with the leadership: Madam Speaker, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Democratic Whip James Clyburn. What say we light up their phone lines and email inboxes tomorrow and Monday?

I plan to start tonight. Senate, too.

CTuttle @ 68

I’m positive our Dems in the House will toe the Party Line!!!

So far, 17 19 Democrats are voting with the Repugs.

Bob in HI

I have a nasty headache & I rarely get them. Can’t count on any of them.

Thank you, Debbie Wasserman Shultz for telling the truth they didn’t want to hear, as you were gaveled down.

Europe has been under similar, even worse threats from terrorism for decades. The gov. response is considerably different w/different leadership there, no?

A Scanner Darkly indeed:

I think its time to chew Clyburn a new asshole…

Dems voting with pugs now at 20.

what’s up with all the no-shows with only two minutes left?

selise @ 283

TiredFed @ 264

aw. selise, you know we can’t win every battle. rest up tomorrow. next week we get to see if Karl gets cited with contempt!

strangely enough, it’s not loosing that bothers me so much. it’s giving up without a fight.

yeah, that hurts

eCAHNomics @ 258

yellowdogjim @ 207
That’s an amazing story & I have no memory of it. Whatever happened? Did they find more conspirators? What were they planning to do with all that sh*t?

glad you asked.
check my links for the full dose.

Krar never cooperated, so they don’t know what he was going to do.
he got 11 years and his wife got 5, i think.
(i need to re-read the links myself.)
they lived a few hundred miles from me.
got caught because a package was delivered from them to the wrong address up north and when it was opened up krar had written a note:
“Hope this doesn’t fall into the wrong hands.”

six months earlier Ashcroft was running to the microphones while in Russia to press conference the capture of Padilla.

not a peep about Krar.

i have a pile of links at my blog: click my name above.

It may end up closer to 220-215, depending on the non-voters. But the numbers aren’t there, thanks to the DINOs who are happy to piss themselves and piss away liberties.

Twain @ 295

TiredFed @ 291

the responsibility for ensuring Democrats toe the party line rests with the leadership: Madam Speaker, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Democratic Whip James Clyburn. What say we light up their phone lines and email inboxes tomorrow and Monday?

I plan to start tonight. Senate, too.

It’s very important to do so.. after all, this bill does have a sunset.

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

Eureka Springs @ 288

Liberty dies with a whimper tonight.

only made worse because I thought we were gonna have a rumble,
but no.

TiredFed @ 291

the responsibility for ensuring Democrats toe the party line rests with the leadership: Madam Speaker, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Democratic Whip James Clyburn. What say we light up their phone lines and email inboxes tomorrow and Monday?

what i really want to do is write a killer LTE that rips my rep (who i normally like) and the dem leadership for the fuckery with the rules.

after, of course, making sure my understanding isn’t defective.

don’t know if i can pull it off though.

OKK did you get your link to the donation info?

Open Secrets This is all you’ll need.

oh shit, botulism in green beans

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..57KqME1vAI

fuck.

LS @ 305

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

would have to change your moniker to LSMFT. dont.

eCAHNomics @ 289

This sounds fairly dispositive. From thinkprogress:

Giuliani’s former anti-terrorism chief voices stern criticism. Rudy Guiliani’s former emergency management director, Jerome Hauer, blamed the former mayor for “locating the city’s crisis control room in the World Trade Centre complex, even though it was a known terrorist target after the 1993 truck bomb attack which killed six people at the site.” Hauer said Giuliani rejected a facility in Brooklyn in favor of because “the mayor himself made clear that the site had to be walking distance from City Hall.” He added, “Rudy would make a terrible president and that is why I am speaking now.” 10:05 pm | Comment (0)

Check out the cover story in Harper’s, a piece on Giuliani, called “A Fate Worse than Bush.”

38 Dems voting with Republicans now. I don’t get it.

Nadler today.

Holt today.

Sheila Jackson Lee will be up in a few minutes.

How do you spell the sound of the United States of America being sucked down the drain of the bathtub?

There is no reason whatsoever for this to be happening. If there is, what is it?

LS @ 305

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

i’ll take a toke for you.

Millineryman @ 285

(((((((((Valley Girl!)))))))))))))))

Thanks, I need it. email me.

TiredFed @ 94

yellowdog jim @ 72

okay, can the good guy dems win with a simple majority?

please?

well, yeah. the bill needs a simple majority to pass. the Dems have a 30 vote majority, so they just have to hold the line.

Now 36 41 Dems are voting with the Repugs. The bill will pass.

Bob in HI

Marie Roget @ 298

Thank you, Debbie Wasserman Shultz for telling the truth they didn’t want to hear, as you were gaveled down.

Europe has been under similar, even worse threats from terrorism for decades. The gov. response is considerably different w/different leadership there, no?

A Scanner Darkly indeed:

I wanted to write more up there, but my heart just isn’t in it. Courage, mes amis d’FDL. Later…

pseudonymous in nc @ 303

It may end up closer to 220-215, depending on the non-voters. But the numbers aren’t there, thanks to the DINOs who are happy to piss themselves and piss away liberties.

and the leadership’s games with the rule.

selise @ 307

TiredFed @ 291

the responsibility for ensuring Democrats toe the party line rests with the leadership: Madam Speaker, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Democratic Whip James Clyburn. What say we light up their phone lines and email inboxes tomorrow and Monday?

what i really want to do is write a killer LTE that rips my rep (who i normally like) and the dem leadership for the fuckery with the rules.

after, of course, making sure my understanding isn’t defective.

don’t know if i can pull it off though.

give it a shot anyway. someone might see it!

pseudonymous in nc @ 303

It may end up closer to 220-215, depending on the non-voters. But the numbers aren’t there, thanks to the DINOs who are happy to piss themselves and piss away liberties.

yeah, and that would be OUR liberties

We’ve had the analogy wrong all this time. WE are Charlie Brown with the dems holding the football.

nonplussed @ 308

OKK did you get your link to the donation info?

Open Secrets This is all you’ll need.

Thanks! ;0)

Marie Roget @ 319

Marie Roget @ 298

Thank you, Debbie Wasserman Shultz for telling the truth they didn’t want to hear, as you were gaveled down.

Europe has been under similar, even worse threats from terrorism for decades. The gov. response is considerably different w/different leadership there, no?

A Scanner Darkly indeed:

I wanted to write more up there, but my heart just isn’t in it. Courage, mes amis d’FDL. Later…

bon soir.

TiredFed @ 311

LS @ 305

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

would have to change your moniker to LSMFT. dont.

my parents smoked Luckies

41 quislings.

If the chairman had any balls he’d hold voting open for another 3 hours to try to change their votes. Hey, it worked for Sensenbrenner.

We need to do an analysis of the Dem who voted for and figure out where we can mount primary challenges. This vote should not be forgiven.

Here’s the chief problem for the FDL site: Most of those who wish our support want it to help elect democrats. But as DEXX has said today, we can’t trust those who seek our support.

apparently there are a lot of Dems that want to make sure their vacation starts as soon as possible…

we should send ‘em all Hawaiian leis… with a note saying they should probably plan on a permanent vacation come next election.

TiredFed @ 311

LS @ 305

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

would have to change your moniker to LSMFT. dont.

lol. I won’t.

solai @ 323

We’ve had the analogy wrong all this time. WE are Charlie Brown with the dems holding the football.

that’s exactly what I feel like. flat on my back with the air all gone.

realworld @ 328

We need to do an analysis of the Dem who voted for and figure out where we can mount primary challenges. This vote should not be forgiven.

I won’t forgive this ever. I am beyond outraged.

TiredFed @ 311

LS @ 305

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

would have to change your moniker to LSMFT. dont.

Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco?

yellowdog jim @ 316

LS @ 305

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

i’ll take a toke for you.

don’t be bogarting that

yellowdog jim @ 316

LS @ 305

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

i’ll take a toke for you.

I need to pack my bowl, a Bong Hit For Justice!!!

Valley Girl @ 317

Millineryman @ 285

(((((((((Valley Girl!)))))))))))))))

Thanks, I need it. email me.

VG – i’m sorry to hear you need hugs, here’s one from me. (((Valley Girl)))

realworld @ 328

We need to do an analysis of the Dem who voted for and figure out where we can mount primary challenges. This vote should not be forgiven.

yes.

gawd, I hope we don;t have to listen to any gloating

Republicans sound gracious, screaming in victory. Just like Mr. Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich. ‘We’re # 1, Wahoo!’ 227 to 183.

And what do you call your act?

The Democrats.

the deed is done!!

TiredFed @ 332

solai @ 323

We’ve had the analogy wrong all this time. WE are Charlie Brown with the dems holding the football.

that’s exactly what I feel like. flat on my back with the air all gone.

once again

marymccurnin @ 341

And what do you call your act?

The Democrats.

The Surrendercats

A little over a year to the next presidential election.

…and congressional poll numbers sink further

jayt @ 339

gawd, I hope we don;t have to listen to any gloating

yer a dreamer!

I’ll bet this is exactly the way the Wilsons felt when Libby was commuted..

Joe Wilson – What the hell do we do now????

And welcome to the world of Captain Caveman.

selise @ 337

Valley Girl @ 317

Thanks, I need it. email me.

VG – i’m sorry to hear you need hugs, here’s one from me. (((Valley Girl)))

Thanks Selise- but you do too! for same reasons as mine!

the dems are just asking the voting public to stay home next electin

TiredFed @ 311

LS @ 305

I would smoke something right now, if I had any. Might as well.

would have to change your moniker to LSMFT. dont.

C’mon. Y’re old enough for that? Someones going to ask WTFisLSMFT.

IT’S OFFICIAL. THE HOUSE JUST PASSED THE NEW FISA BILL AND 41 DEMS VOTED FOR IT AND 2 REPS AGAINST. THAT’S ALL SHE WROTE FOLKS. BETTER WATCH WHAT YOU SAY ON YOUR NEXT TELEPHONE CONVERSATION AS WELL AS WHAT SITES YOU VISIT ON THE NET.
GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK.

what a bunch of clowns. they pass the bill, then they insist on a recorded vote on the day’s journal. they will probably insist on a recorded vote to adjourn again, too. idiots.

Sheila Jackson Lee today.

Some good people tried to stop this mess, but not enough. Not this time, damn it.

What is this fuckery?

Are they having a recorded vote on whether or not Conyers can put some more bullshit in the Congressional record? Who gives a flying fuck?

Valley Girl @ 350

selise @ 337

VG – i’m sorry to hear you need hugs, here’s one from me. (((Valley Girl)))

Thanks Selise- but you do too! for same reasons as mine!

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could all be in the same room when something like this happens?

No more money or support to any of these people.

new thread – lhp on zactly what we are talking about..

yellowdog jim @ 302

eCAHNomics @ 258

yellowdogjim @ 207
That’s an amazing story & I have no memory of it. Whatever happened? Did they find more conspirators? What were they planning to do with all that sh*t?

glad you asked.
check my links for the full dose.

Krar never cooperated, so they don’t know what he was going to do.
he got 11 years and his wife got 5, i think.
(i need to re-read the links myself.)
they lived a few hundred miles from me.
got caught because a package was delivered from them to the wrong address up north and when it was opened up krar had written a note:
“Hope this doesn’t fall into the wrong hands.”

six months earlier Ashcroft was running to the microphones while in Russia to press conference the capture of Padilla.

not a peep about Krar.

i have a pile of links at my blog: click my name above.

Read KLAR & NYtimes. No wonder govt never did anything. Wrong kind of terrorists. Interesting from my geography is that the fake-IDs ended up in Staten Island! There was a Law & Order episode about a neoNazi group in Staten Island.

where do we find the list of dem turncoats?

New thread upstairs, pups

Oklahoma kiddo @ 345

A little over a year to the next presidential election.

and also the congressional elections.
If my congress person voted for this bill, I’ll run against her.

I know. I’d rather have candidates collect lobbyist money from friends, children and spouses of lobbyist so they can pretend they don’t accept lobbyist money. That’s the kind of government reform we really need. And, while we are at it, damn right , I think a sitting president should walk the picket line. That’s the kind of support union workers really need. And, I love tough guy speeches about Pakistan, and like, forging a new war there. That’s just the kind of foreign policy America wants. And, so ok, Obama voted present on a few pieces of legislation concerning abortion. Big deal. He’s definately better than Hillary Clinton on women’s issues. I mean, what the hell has she done? And, you know, who cares that Obama is advertising himself as some sort of Messiah to poor southern blacks? That’s appropriate.

Does it ever occur to you that Hillary has a growing majority of support in virtually every cohort of the Democratic Party for a reason? Ever thought maybe a candidate with that kind of support may actually be best for the Party? Or, at least, have you even attempted to look at parts of her record or her platform that may actually explain why Democrats like her? I mean, it’s great sport here to just constantly beat up on Hillary, and why not when other candidates with so much less to offer are willing to throw you red meat, even if it’s based on lies about their own conduct? But have you ever even tried to look at Hillary objectively, just to see why maybe so many people, particularly women, support her? Or, is this crap just so much more fun?

jc inOR @ 352

TiredFed @ 311

would have to change your moniker to LSMFT. dont.

C’mon. Y’re old enough for that? Someones going to ask WTFisLSMFT.

I’m old enough to have quit 9 times over. It’s kinda an inside joke. If you don’t know what it means ,it dates you to the pre-advertising era on cigs.

Sharon @ 346

…and congressional poll numbers sink further

The majority of the American Public won’t even know what they have lost. They’re too busy to be bothered to do anything other than listen to Rush (& Co.), bitch about everything in general, blame Clinton, laugh at Carter, and badmouth the “Liberals”.

Please come up to the new thread to ease the load on our servers.

LS @ 280

What do we do now?

Vigorous oversight for the next 6 months– and maybe a lawsuit– is about all that’s left.

Bob in HI

mj @ 364

I know. I’d rather have candidates collect lobbyist money from friends, children and spouses of lobbyist so they can pretend they don’t accept lobbyist money. That’s the kind of government reform we really need. And, while we are at it, damn right , I think a sitting president should walk the picket line. That’s the kind of support union workers really need. And, I love tough guy speeches about Pakistan, and like, forging a new war there. That’s just the kind of foreign policy America wants. And, so ok, Obama voted present on a few pieces of legislation concerning abortion. Big deal. He’s definately better than Hillary Clinton on women’s issues. I mean, what the hell has she done? And, you know, who cares that Obama is advertising himself as some sort of Messiah to poor southern blacks? That’s appropriate.

Does it ever occur to you that Hillary has a growing majority of support in virtually every cohort of the Democratic Party for a reason? Ever thought maybe a candidate with that kind of support may actually be best for the Party? Or, at least, have you even attempted to look at parts of her record or her platform that may actually explain why Democrats like her? I mean, it’s great sport here to just constantly beat up on Hillary, and why not when other candidates with so much less to offer are willing to throw you red meat, even if it’s based on lies about their own conduct? But have you ever even tried to look at Hillary objectively, just to see why maybe so many people, particularly women, support her? Or, is this crap just so much more fun?

MJ – You’ve used a lot of words here. Are you saying you support Hillary?

yellowdog jim @ 361

where do we find the list of dem turncoats?

HERE

Andrew @ 353

IT’S OFFICIAL. THE HOUSE JUST PASSED THE NEW FISA BILL AND 41 DEMS VOTED FOR IT AND 2 REPS AGAINST. THAT’S ALL SHE WROTE FOLKS. BETTER WATCH WHAT YOU SAY ON YOUR NEXT TELEPHONE CONVERSATION AS WELL AS WHAT SITES YOU VISIT ON THE NET.
GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK.

41??? What kind of fuckery of the 4th Amendment is this?

mj @ 364

I know. I’d rather have candidates collect lobbyist money from friends, children and spouses of lobbyist so they can pretend they don’t accept lobbyist money. That’s the kind of government reform we really need. And, while we are at it, damn right , I think a sitting president should walk the picket line. That’s the kind of support union workers really need. And, I love tough guy speeches about Pakistan, and like, forging a new war there. That’s just the kind of foreign policy America wants. And, so ok, Obama voted present on a few pieces of legislation concerning abortion. Big deal. He’s definately better than Hillary Clinton on women’s issues. I mean, what the hell has she done? And, you know, who cares that Obama is advertising himself as some sort of Messiah to poor southern blacks? That’s appropriate.

Does it ever occur to you that Hillary has a growing majority of support in virtually every cohort of the Democratic Party for a reason? Ever thought maybe a candidate with that kind of support may actually be best for the Party? Or, at least, have you even attempted to look at parts of her record or her platform that may actually explain why Democrats like her? I mean, it’s great sport here to just constantly beat up on Hillary, and why not when other candidates with so much less to offer are willing to throw you red meat, even if it’s based on lies about their own conduct? But have you ever even tried to look at Hillary objectively, just to see why maybe so many people, particularly women, support her? Or, is this crap just so much more fun?

Are you serious?

Jonathan @ 369

mj @ 364

I know. I’d rather have candidates collect lobbyist money from friends, children and spouses of lobbyist so they can pretend they don’t accept lobbyist money. That’s the kind of government reform we really need. And, while we are at it, damn right , I think a sitting president should walk the picket line. That’s the kind of support union workers really need. And, I love tough guy speeches about Pakistan, and like, forging a new war there. That’s just the kind of foreign policy America wants. And, so ok, Obama voted present on a few pieces of legislation concerning abortion. Big deal. He’s definately better than Hillary Clinton on women’s issues. I mean, what the hell has she done? And, you know, who cares that Obama is advertising himself as some sort of Messiah to poor southern blacks? That’s appropriate.

Does it ever occur to you that Hillary has a growing majority of support in virtually every cohort of the Democratic Party for a reason? Ever thought maybe a candidate with that kind of support may actually be best for the Party? Or, at least, have you even attempted to look at parts of her record or her platform that may actually explain why Democrats like her? I mean, it’s great sport here to just constantly beat up on Hillary, and why not when other candidates with so much less to offer are willing to throw you red meat, even if it’s based on lies about their own conduct? But have you ever even tried to look at Hillary objectively, just to see why maybe so many people, particularly women, support her? Or, is this crap just so much more fun?

MJ – You’ve used a lot of words here. Are you saying you support Hillary?

Eureka Springs @ 372

mj @ 364

I know. I’d rather have candidates collect lobbyist money from friends, children and spouses of lobbyist so they can pretend they don’t accept lobbyist money. That’s the kind of government reform we really need. And, while we are at it, damn right , I think a sitting president should walk the picket line. That’s the kind of support union workers really need. And, I love tough guy speeches about Pakistan, and like, forging a new war there. That’s just the kind of foreign policy America wants. And, so ok, Obama voted present on a few pieces of legislation concerning abortion. Big deal. He’s definately better than Hillary Clinton on women’s issues. I mean, what the hell has she done? And, you know, who cares that Obama is advertising himself as some sort of Messiah to poor southern blacks? That’s appropriate.

Does it ever occur to you that Hillary has a growing majority of support in virtually every cohort of the Democratic Party for a reason? Ever thought maybe a candidate with that kind of support may actually be best for the Party? Or, at least, have you even attempted to look at parts of her record or her platform that may actually explain why Democrats like her? I mean, it’s great sport here to just constantly beat up on Hillary, and why not when other candidates with so much less to offer are willing to throw you red meat, even if it’s based on lies about their own conduct? But have you ever even tried to look at Hillary objectively, just to see why maybe so many people, particularly women, support her? Or, is this crap just so much more fun?

Are you serious?

You and Hillary go read the NIE before you vote for the next war that Hillary votes for. Hillary would be the second worst president ever and I have no stomach for eight more years of the nonsense the Clintons spin. No more Freehs, Bergers, Albrights, Tenets.

leftindc, I have been watching and supporting HC all of my life… and I will never vote for her again, under no circumstances, nor for any office.

I’ve had enough of DLC candidates just as much as I have had enough of Republicans.

nonplussed @ 370

yellowdog jim @ 361

where do we find the list of dem turncoats?

HERE

Where, “Here”? Where on this page? Couldn’t find it.

The problem with Edwards, is, of course, that he has the support of a lot of the legal community.

If only he had the backing of the petroleum-industry—Exxon-Mobile; Chevron-Texaco; Halliburton; etc., he’d make a great president; one who would never embroil us in a bloody, useless, and unendable war. Nor would he gang-bang the “rule of law” concept.

Too bad he’s so tarnished.

Ah Yeah The Hill. at Kos Konvention. Probably gets her dreaming of some J-Edgarish like fantasies…………..retinal screening to logon, comrades of KOS! KossackInc., moderated as heavy as any right-wing site currently in operation, now seems even to the right of Hill. Corp

Everybody pretty much agrees that Hillary lost? Only in your narrow frame of reference, and small circle at YK. Clinton, Edwards, and Obama all take money from one or more of the following: Corporations, Wealthy donors, PACS, and yes Lobbyists.

That is the way game is played. Yes it can be changed. Edwards and Obama are just being hypocritical about this. The majority of primary voters know this and will discount it.

I found Ms. Clinton’s reference to lobbyists for social workers and nurses as just a tad disingenuius. Is she seriously suggesting that the Nat’l Assoc. of Social Workers is on equal footing with lobbyists for the banking industry? And who has more clout…the American Nurses Association or big Pharma and Insurance industries?
Consider the following
In the The Two Income Trap: Why Middle-Class Mothers and Fathers Are Going Broke, Harvard law professor Elizabeth Warren recounts a 1998 meeting with Clinton, who was then First Lady. Clinton wanted to know more about credit cards and how they affected women and Warren, a leading critic of credit card company practices, gave her a short lecture over lunch, focusing on the drawbacks in an earlier version of the new bankruptcy legislation (which Bill Clinton and the White House staff were quietly supporting in hopes of wooing the banking industry). Warren writes that after their talk, Hillary promised to do what she could to stop the “awful bill.” And, by the time the legislation passed Congress in 2000, Bill Clinton had changed his position and vetoed it. An aide later told Warren, “A couple of days after Mrs. Clinton met with you, we changed sides [on the bankruptcy bill] so fast that you could see skid marks in the hallways of the White House.”

But a year later, Clinton, then a freshman senator, voted for virtually the same bill when it was refloated by Bush. “Campaigns cost money,” Warren writes, “and that money wasn’t coming from families in financial trouble. Senator Clinton received $140,000 in campaign contributions from banking industry executives in a single year, making her one of the top two recipients in the Senate.”

selise @ 45

BTD is reporting at talkleft that the dems have already capitulated – the rule is simple majority for this fisa bill (the dem version last night required 2/3 vote).

i didn’t hear that so can’t confirm.

That’s bcause it had to be veto-proof for the Democratic version. Bush said he’d veto it.

They could have passed it, but he would have immediately sent it back.

That would mean recessing without a FISA law (since the last one was illegal…but wasn’t this passed by Congress…and would only mean going back to the older version?)…Bush would play that no end.

Of course, the Democrats could say, we’ll stay here until we get the 2/3rd’s vote or until Bush accepts our version. If the Republicans failed to stay they’d be shown as “obstructors).

And BTW the Constitution says that the 2/3rd’s vote is of those VOTING…not of the membership as a whole that Session. So if the Pugs walk away…all the Dems need to do is gain a quorumplus the 2/3rd’s of remaoning Congresspersons.

Until a way is found to finance candidates this system will be in place. I think one’s attitude to a candidate helps make the argument. For example HRC has taken money from lobbyists and to try and wiggle out of that exposes her to charges of hypocrisy. BA took money from lobbyists in the State Senate elections. What is the difference? Sure if he can collect monies from others for this campaign he can say he is not beholden to lobbyists. But what about the Wall Street money he has collected, bundles and all? JE puzzles me. He has taken money from lobbyists, esp during the Kerry campaign. Why the purity stance now?

This gathering was weighted against HRC and I think she came off ok. BA did well because this was his crowd. Edwards was okay, too. But he sounded anxious.

Too many commenters don’t like HRC. So I am not surprised at the bile.

The chair was a disaster. He got in the way. At least politicians are not the only ones with egos.

both Edwards and Obama make an issue of accepting money from federal lobbyists but are happy to take the money from state-lobbyists who do business with federal government.

What a difference!

4 words on Hillary:

“Iraq war”

“Joe Lieberman”

The support for which two, she refuses to say were mistakes. Instead, she does the GOP tap-dance.

Nauseating. If the democrats DO manage to nominate her, the people who supported her will have the consolation prize of watching a republican take the oath of office about 18 months from now.

In an election in which the odds are as heavy has they’ve been in generations, that we can sweep both the legislative and executive branches, she’s the OTHER “Titanic”.

We really mustn’t book passage.

“why the purity stance now?”

Maybe because he realizes that the lobbyists are a big part of the problems we have, instead of the solution.

When do we get that epiphany from Clinton?

Actually, not ENOUGH commenters don’t like HRC.

Let’s hope that changes in time to nominate someone whom numbers of republican and independents whom we need, to win the presidency and sweep both houses, don’t despise with a white-hot hatred.

Clinton has been handled with kid gloves on this issue…even by her opposing candidates.

Evidently no one wants to speak openly about her dirty little campaign secret:

She can’t win the presidency.

The percentage of republicans who would vote for her is in the “decimal-point-followed-by-two-zeros-and-an-integer” range.

The number of independents who would vote for her probably has only ONE zero, but with the bush administration having coattails slathered with a political ebola virus, do we NEED another close election for them to steal?

I think not.

Tanbark:

i really don’t find you persuasive. The progressives just don’t have the votes for Obama or Edwards unless they, too, appeal to the centre. We may not like it but we need the centre to get to 51% plus. Now you can wish for something, and that’s ok. But going on an anti-Clinton rant is not going to help the Democrats. Like Naderites we can only ensure a Republican President. It will be great to say we fought a good fight for a principle but lost. Sounds like the the progressive mantra for sometime now. Why do we think we are so pure?

Bala Pillay @ 386

Tanbark:

i really don’t find you persuasive. The progressives just don’t have the votes for Obama or Edwards unless they, too, appeal to the centre. We may not like it but we need the centre to get to 51% plus. Now you can wish for something, and that’s ok. But going on an anti-Clinton rant is not going to help the Democrats. Like Naderites we can only ensure a Republican President. It will be great to say we fought a good fight for a principle but lost. Sounds like the the progressive mantra for sometime now. Why do we think we are so pure?

It is not going to be the Clintons because we have nothing better. We are not going to say the Clintons are better than Bush and they are the sole electable candidates. We are going to do better than elect the second worst President in the history of our great country, namely HRC. We are going to do better than DLC Kerry, Gore and the Clintons this time around. Whoever it is is going to be better than the Clintons. No more wasting time with the Clintons. And we are going to win. And we are going to have a serious President, not some petty careerists like the Clintons.

leftcin72: good for you. You demonstrate the kind of petulance and closed mind that Michelle Malkin shows. I just saw the Dems cave in on FISA yesterday because they are too afraid of taking responsibility; and wanted to go on vacation. I think there is hope for the right. We have some single minded characters here too who have been bad for us. Good to see the Democrats have them too.

“Going on an anti-Clinton rant is not going to help the democrats.”

And that’s where you are very mistaken. If we get enough “anti-Clinton rants”, especially rants that point out the same truth I did, that neither the republicans (I giggle) nor the independents, will vote for her in numbers that can offset the conservative democrats who will simply sit out the election (not to mention the progrssives who are pissed at her for oozing over to the right) then we can get about the business of nominating someone who CAN be elected. In fact, probably WILL be elected.

Clinton is a political train wreck waiting to happen. Seeing her nominated is Karl Rove and the GOP’s juiciest fantasy.

Why else do you think that, with her lead over both Obama and Edwards, the republicans are spending more of their time and energy attacking Edwards, than Clinton? They would roll out the red carpet for her, next year in Denver.

And if you think supporting bush’s war was “appealing to the center”, and refusing to say, flat-out, that her vote to authorize it was a mistake, is “appealing to the center”; and if you think that supporting Joe Lieberman against Ned Lamont was “appealing to the center”; and if you think that taking those bucks from A*P*C, and then blaming the Iraqi government for what is going on in Iraq, is “appealing to the center”, then, let me tell you, YOUR lack of “persuasion” is world-class. :o)

edited and released by Mods

Bala Pillay: I won’t speak for anyone else’s feelings of purity, but I do have a few of them, relatively speaking. :o)

I feel “pure”, because I’ve been speaking out against the war, and the people who dragged us into it, for 5 years now.

I feel “pure” because I’m tres pissed at
Sen. Clinton, for being politically stupid enough to think that she could sleaze to the right to try to pick up conservative votes which simply are NOT there for her, and do it without being called out on it, by the progressive wing of the party.

I feel “pure” because the candidate whom I now support, John Edwards, has shown a good deal of political courage, while Hillary Clinton has shown none of it, and has, in fact shown a ton of political cowardice, with her support for the war, until it became as plain as mud that it was costing her dearly, at which point, she discovered her inner anti-war self…except, not enough to pronounce her vote to authorize, a mistake.

Which means that she can’t call the war, itself, a mistake. And if you think that is going to appeal to the center now, much less by the time the election rolls around, I hope you’re not a political science professor at Harvard.

Alan @ 388

leftcin72: good for you. You demonstrate the kind of petulance and closed mind that Michelle Malkin shows. I just saw the Dems cave in on FISA yesterday because they are too afraid of taking responsibility; and wanted to go on vacation. I think there is hope for the right. We have some single minded characters here too who have been bad for us. Good to see the Democrats have them too.

Great Alan, I am glad we share the same open minds. I am open to change for the better and I have had enough of the Clintons, enough. They are not an option but I am definitely open to other options. The Clintons are essentialy, as you refer it, Republicans and by that I mean 21st century Repubicans. So go for a swim in their pool and enjoy. (oh their poolsmith, only builds for celebrities).

I’m way at the end and doubt that anyone will get down here, but I don’t agree that Hillary “lost”. I was actually surprised at how well she did. Yeah, I was not happy with her lobby money answer, but overall, she held her own.

And in the breakout session she was actually pretty impressive.

I’ll get down with you, Granny. :o)

What is going to be “impressive”, is when Iraq gets down to the cinders; bush’s ratings are in the high teens, and Clinton discovers that her authorization vote (and the war, itself) was a mistake, after all.