FISA guttedBy: looseheadprop Saturday August 4, 2007 7:19 pm |
I am sitting here watching the House vote on the FISA bill.
The bill that will be the Legislative branch caving in to the Executive branch to undo the heroic work of the Judicial branch which issued a decision in March declaring the President's warrantless wiretapping illegal under FISA.
The house vote is going on right now
Yeas 227
Nays 183
This is revolting.
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number ONE!
it is ridiculous… I will get the others…
Just joining you. USA RIP
Completely revolting.
OK, selise, you were right.
so long, what was left of my civil liberties…it was nice knowing ya!
This is no longer the country I grew up in.
Can someone explain why they needed a 2/3 vote to pass the Dem version of the bill? Who agreed to that rule change, and why?
I’m so disgusted.
Turned off C-Span a few minutes ago, couldn’t take it any more.
And I came here, figuring someone else amongst the Firepups would be registering the same grief I feel.
Thanks, LHP, for being the one to do it.
And please, LHP, or any other Firepup present tonight, please give me a reason for hope. It’s an especially dark night tonight.
that hurt.
I hope we all give our elected representatives a real *warm* welcome home this August.
Bisher al-Rawi, the British-based Iraqi and former MI5 source detained by America for more than four years, is suing the US private airline that transported him to Afghanistan on an illegal CIA ‘extraordinary rendition’ torture flight.
Last week’s Observer revealed how MI5 failed to protect al-Rawi when US agents abducted him during a business trip to Gambia in November 2002, despite the fact that he had helped the Security Service keep tabs on the radical preacher Abu Qatada - Osama bin Laden’s ‘ambassador to Europe’ - when he was in hiding.
‘Being a victim of the CIA’s rendition programme was horrific beyond words,’ al-Rawi said yesterday.
http://politics.guardian.co.uk.....87,00.html
GordonM @ 5
i’m so, so sorry.
BigMitch @ 8
that’s the thing that is cracking my butt right now.
I too am revolted.
BigMitch @ 8
Looked like Calvinball to me.
And don’t forget - Alberto is now in charge!!
Courts? We don’t need no stinkin’ courts!!
So, LHP, what excuse will they give?…vacation We are the majority
((((((everyone))))))
dakine01 @ 7
I am 42 and this is the country all the DFH’s warned me about.
I’m crying. After I cry, I get really angry. Where do we go from here. Am I dreaming? It feels like a nightmare I can’t wake up from.
Hi K8!
We need a list of the cave-in Dems and make sure they see their constituents constantly during the break.
jayt @ 10
Yes, now let’s see. What’s warm? Spit is warm.
BigMitch @ 8
that’s the #1 question for Miss Nancy on Monday morning. Someone please ask her at the next local meeting in Cali, heh?
Never forget this day folks. The day the United States of America died. R.I.P. Don’t forget this either come the next election. Vote the bums out!
The Dems cave again. Pathetic.
time for a drink. anyone care to join me? oh, and I’m going to smoke a cigarette, too.
Fear and Loathing in the House of Representatives - Their fear, our loathing!
BigMitch @ 8
if the leadership weren’t gaming the system - the worst case would have been that both bills would be considered under the same rule or rule suspension.
therefore, i conclude that the fix was in.
this was to make sure the bill passed, but that most of the dems could vote against it and so “look” good.
fuckery and kabuki.
When & where can we find out which Ds voted for it?
LoudounLib @ 6
Oh, you can have them back in 6 months. All you need is this nice little RFID chip, won’t hurt a bit, and now you’ll be able to pay for your groceries with a retinal scan! It will be so excellent. The subcutaneous X*n*x really makes breathing diesel fumes so pleasant, they smell like.. roses.. whatever they were.
So, FDL, when the DNC comes calling, and they will, will you give?
pour me up, LoudounLib…
I’m afraid that I am getting numb about this, that can’t be good, that’s like giving up or giving in.
And I won’t!
Gordon, you made me grin ;-)
Fern @ 15
apt choice of analogy!
This would only be revolting if we had a President with a history of assaults on the Constitution and an Attorney General who had the trustworthiness of a pimp.
Oh, wait.
lhp! you might be interested in some of the summaries I did on the CRS report on Congress’ contempt powers over at my place. feel free to use whatever you like. you can make much better use of the info than I can.
sure, thanks LL
Hey, Elliott! Good to see you here, together with all the Pups at the wake.
LS — I’m crying too. And very very angry.
eCAHN — thanks for that hug for all of us. I sure know that I need it.
LoudounLib @ 27
I’m already out here. Would you like one of mine?
Let’s start referring to the country by their terminology.
New Homeland speak….let’s start professing loyalty oaths to der Busheur…
Part of the problem is that we are not rioting in the streets over this. They don’t see any palpable rage from us, so they don’t think we care.
The Dems are being constantly harraunged by the GOP members that can get in their faces… by their fellow ‘insiders’ who follow and obey the Beltway ideology rather than the mood in the rest of the country…
Do you know how nations truly die? They die by apathy.
LoudounLib @ 27
no, dont do it. step away from the butt. but, by all means, have a drink.
and of course - maybe we really, really fucked up by asking the dems in the house this week to block their own version of the bill.
now i’m wishing that last night’s bill had passed.
eCAHNomics @ 30
About 6-1/2 minutes remaining in the electronic vote record according to C-Span.
TiredFed @ 24
I didn’t see the final count but they may have been worried about losing with two third rule.
snowbird42 @ 32
yup.
Frank Probst @ 26
A whole party of Snarlin’ Arlens.
Northwest Gal @ 41
Thanks. A cigarette (or a whole pack) would be so nice right now.
BigMitch @ 8
I’ll give it a shot.
The Dem’s, in the spirit of moving forward to get a bill passed, had to suspend a rule to get it to a quick vote. The motion to suspend the rule needed 2/3 to pass.
Tonight was a straight up-or down as to whether to concur with last night’s Senate vote.
I wonder who voted for it.
I’m tired of Dems who won’t stand up and fight. And I’m REALLY tired of people voting for bad legislation just because they don’t want to look “weak”. That attitude is what got into Iraq in the first place. People like John Kerry can claim they never thought Bush would fuck it up as badly as he did, but they should have been worried about it even back then, and they sure as hell ought to know better now.
The dems have become those people that have been convinced to vote against their own interest. What . Is . Going . On ???
Then dont complain. If you send money you concur
Northwest Gal @ 41
Anybody want a menthol? I’ve been thinking of quitting, but then why would anyone want to live LONGER in a big banana republic with fancy high-tech surveillance?
Kiss the United States goodbye, in my estimation. Thanks congress. What worthless fucks.
I had CSpan on all day waitng for the FISA debate.
My stepdaughter is visiting and she and Littleprop almost didn’t believe me when I told them what this bill was all about.
My step daughter (going into her junior year of college) was amazed and said “If something like this is going on why isn’t it all over the news? Why isn’t someone telling the people?”
The kids and I had a talk about that scene in one of the Star Wars movies where the Sith Lord declares himself Emperor “just until the presnt security crisis is over”.
Remeber the line? “This is how democracy dies…”
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Benjamin Franklin
Hugh @ 37
Nicely put. Sad, but accurate.
Not one penny more to any Democrat until they learn to grow some balls.
damn. I’m an hour and a half from 6 months without a drink… and boy, is it tough right about now.
Frank Probst @ 53
John Kerry should have listened to Molly Ivins!!!!!! She knew what the Decider was like when he was still Governor. She warned people, and not enough listened.
looseheadprop @ 58
You have amazing kids if they listen to you explain what this is all about. Bravo.
They are driving us to drink and smoke!
In perspective…
This bridge in Minnesota, Katrina/New Orleans, and Pat Tillman are all related. Our infrastructure and social fabric are disintegrating before our eyes. “I pledge ‘No New Taxes!!!’” is the refrain that we hear, but what do we get in return? A Dow at 14,000?
The Dow is a thermometer that is telling us we are sick and unstable. The symptoms of the disease are incompetence at directing a disaster recovery, the inability to fix the plumbing (so to speak) on our roadways. And the inability or unwillingness to tell the truth when something does go wrong. Oh, because there might be some liability, someone might find out. and it is better that a Nation dwell in unbelief rather than someone tell the truth. Well, I am sick of it.
I want someone to change the channel. But only I can do that.
Andrew @ 61
Thank you, this is our power. Power that will work.
You can give to individuals who think and vote right.
Who in Northern Cali wants to go with me to meet with Nancy??? I am not kidding.I live in the Sac area but can get to the bay area anytime.
(((jayt))) keep up the good work. I’ll go fix you a cup of coffee.
With thunderous applause.
-GSD
For some reason lyrics to the song Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald came to mind.
“When supper time came the old cook came on deck
Saying fellows it’s too rough to feed ya
At 7PM a main hatchway caved in
He said fellas it’s been good to know ya.”
jayt @ 62
it’s been ten and a half years, it DOES get easier, though I eat lotsa chocolate
looseheadprop @ 58
Did you explain to your step-daughter about how the mass media enjoy their fascism so very much?
snowbird42 @ 32
They get a tip: “When you swear to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, you’re supposed to mean it.”
jayt @ 62
don’t give up now, want a Hershey kiss?
snowbird42 @ 32
I stopped giving in February except to very specific folks.
I think we need to be figuring out what primary challenges to mount now. Some of the sellouts have got to be vulnerable to one after this performance. I can’t wait to see the actual rollcall.
I hate the fucking Democrat Party.
The Democrat Party Democrat Party Democrat Party Democrat Party Democrat Party.
There. That felt good.
I hate those fucks.
wigwam @ 59
You know, I don’t think the Democrats combined in DC have the intellectual capacity of Franklin.
Mrs. K8 @ 56
No - No - No! Don’t give one extra breath to big tobacco! Let’s have group hugs and some massages, instead! I care about all of you!
What can be done? Well, the original patriots had RedCoats smirking among them.
I rather think that it’s time for another tea party. I’m bringing lanterns and box cutters (for tea chest entry).
What will you bring?
looseheadprop @ 58
funny how the kids recognize evil so easily. why can’t we?
i’m not feeling good right now about the time i spent last fall on moveon’s calling program to GOTV for dem representatives.
at least i don’t have to regret all the time i spent volunteering for ned lamont.
jayt @ 62
Wait until you can crack a champange when D is elected prez & majorities in H & S increase. Or, better still, hold out for the rapture. It’s better for you.
Mrs.K8,
I can’t believe this.
I need chocolate….
TiredFed @ 38
Thank you. I sent myself an email so I will remeber to give a good hard read in the morning
GordonM @ 74
Isn’t that the oath they take when they are sworn in?
LoudounLib @ 69
(((jayt))) keep up the good work. I’ll go fix you a cup of coffee.
Thank you. Then hit me over the head with a frying pan, please.
You can see what you will in this.
Our freshman Senator Sherrod Brown (D-OH) voted against it, so our family sent him a thankyou for that, and for his dedication and energy working on many other issues we support.
Our other senator (voinovich - R - go along to get along), and our rep. regula (R-etiring very soon) get nothing from us today. They’ll get the usual soon, once I can figure out how to put feelings into printable language.
We cant stop fighting and writing but we dont have to support them with money.
Whatever games the Dems are playing, they are very dangerous games.
jayt @ 62
(((jayt))). hang in there. nothing is worth it.
wigwam @ 59
I’m waiting for the day it becomes considered “subversive” by Homeland Security to quote the founders, like Franklin or Paine or Jefferson.
Some people have been hanging upside-down American flags as a sign of distress.
What I want to do is hang the Revolutionary Flag. the one with the thirteen stars in a circle — and dare someone to tell me it’s subersive to support our own founding as a nation devoted to liberty.
jayt @ 51
So anyone who voted to suspend rule but voted against the bill is trying to pull a fast one on us, correct?
Thanks for being among those who took the trouble to stay up on a Saturday night to witness this betrayal of American freedom. Most Americans were too busy watching TV, partying, or just plain sleeping.
If there were any kind of strong reaction against the Military Commissions Act, or the Patriot Act, then I’d believe that there will be a Democratic grassroots uprising against those who voted for this. Sadly, that’s not how it has worked in the past.
How much bull will Democrats take from their own party before they demand something better?
Let’s try to be analytical, even though we are dispirited because of this disgusting lack of courage that we have witnessed. I’m focussing on the Dems who didn’t stop this from happening.
It is obvious to me that they are afraid of something, and it isn’t a terrorist phone call that they don’t have translators to understand. It is that they are afraid of being blamed for something if it happens during the next 6 months (before the sunset provision.) To be blamed, someone must do the blaming. Someone with credibility would need to stand up and say, we couldn’t get this information because …. because what?
Because it was too hard to get a judge to go along with our eavesdropping? Even after the fact? I might be seriously wrong about this but I don’t think the bill lowers the standard for eavesdropping, it just relegates the decision making to the AG. If the AG could approve it, then the Judge could approve it in the same amount of time, n’est pas? And besides, the Senate bill was all worked out with Admiral McConnell (name?) DCI.
Furthermore, who could deliver the message that “this tragedy is the fault of the Dems?” Bush? Abu? Dick? Don’t they have someone with an approval rating above the minosa line? (.220)
So, I am just saying, that the 25 ship jumpers really didn’t have much to be afraid of on the soft on terrorism count. Then just what is it they are so afraid of?
Someone has got something on them, is all I can figure. And that someone — I won’t mention any names — but his dad used to be the head of the C.I.A.
I have said often, the Republicans have nothing to sell, but fear itself.
Well, now I am afraid, ’cause this shit is Scary.
when do we start goose-stepping is all i want to know …. this is truly madness!
We are going for a swim. Lahoma suggests a margarita, so I am going to build two of them (don’t use mix), frozen and salted glasses and take them out to the pool. Then we’re going to watch a movie. And then… say goodnight, Lahoma.
good night. L.
snowbird42 @ 55
haha. I totally misread what you said. I thought you said if FDL comes calling, would I send them money. I blanked out the DNC part. that’s gotta be Freudian.
snowbird42 @ 87
I’m damn sure not giving any more money to the Democrat Party.
What are they doing? Why give great speeches when you plan to lose?
snowbird42 @ 32
No. I’ve already sent a nasty letter to the Human Rights Campaign telling them they aren’t getting any more money as long as they continue to support anti-equality candidates like Joe Lieberman. I have no problem telling the DLC to go to hell. I give my money to people and groups that earn it. And people (and groups) who trample the Constitution because they don’t want to change their vacation plans do not fall into that category.
Jayt, have some coffee or tea or chocolate. Dems are not worth it. We have to forge a better way. Things have to change.
Oh no, it isn’t revolting. What we saw was disgusting as the House and the Senate committed Treason. Literally, they all committed High Treason and shredded the Constitution. 9/11 was the Reichstag fire and tonight, the FISA Act of 2007 was the Enabling Act. This was disgusting, not revolting. A revolt is what will be necessary to reinstate the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Rule of Law again.
GSD @ 70
I heard that song a couple hours ago on internet radio, and had a very similar brainwave.
“I’m going to stick with the party and fix it!”
Pfft. So long Democrats.
again we gets PLAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYED!!!
I bet Bush is licking his chops making a list of idiots for recess appointments.
Who’s that dickwad in the chair who rudely cut Debbie off?
If my Rep is one of them, She will not have a pleasant Summer!!! (Mazie Hirono!)
anne @ 91
No, the House was trying to suspend the rule in order to vote on *their* version of the bill.
Tonight they were voting to adopt the Senate’s version.
looseheadprop @ 58
Because the media corporations would much rather talk about how Nancy Pelosi, by keeping Roy Blunt and Mitch McConnell from their August fundraisers vacations, was in bed with Osama.
Meanwhile, there is a bit of good news today, though whether it survives a Bush veto remains to be seen: House passes bill putting additional $12 billion tax on Big Oil
looseheadprop @ 83
Really good stuff by tiredFed for anyone else who’s interested though I have little hope any one in Congress would give a shit.
Capitulation Number 2.
Bet the cowardly, craven Democratic WEASELS vote the Little Gawd a Gold Congressional Medal of Honor by September.
Let’s drop the pretense that the 2006 “election” meant a stop to the fascist takeover.
jayt @ 62
Jayt,
That is the best news and the best reason for hope I have seen all day. You hang tough there.
They can read you email and listen to your phone calls, but they can’t make you fall off the wagon.
What a great way to defy them. What a postive act of rebellion
methinks i’ve seen enough for one night must drown my sorrow as only i know how ;o)
eCAHNomics @ 30
Thomas the official website for Congress hasn’t updated the rollcall vote which is #837.
Mrs. K8 @ 9
It’s good to read LHP tonight.
In the meantime, Mrs. K8, I’m fresh out of hope, too.
-S
juslin @ 94
Gosh, I hadn’t thought of that. Do you think they give free goose-stepping lessons…wouldn’t want to be caught out of the fold.
Let’s not forget that CNN is running a breaking news story about a van full of explosives and “Middle Eastern men” in South Carolina.
-GSD
anne @ 91
not exactly (i think!). if the rule is suspended, then it requires 2/3s vote. that is what they should have done.
i don’t know how the rule for this bill and last night’s fisa vote got set - whoever did that not only made the bill passage tonight possible, but is also attempting to obsure how it is done.
the house leadership is on the top of my responsibility list.
but, i’d really, really like to understand the nuts and bolts of this.
LS @ 99
Jayt, have some coffee or tea or chocolate. Dems are not worth it. We have to forge a better way. Things have to change.
I’m gonna be fine - but thanks.
Ross is a blue dog blue dog
eCAHNomics @ 64
ALthough I only physically gave birth once, four children have blessed me with the joy of watching them grow up. And they are the miracles that make everything else worthwhile
eCAHNomics @ 81
HOpe that day comes (not the rapture part) and then have ginger ale with frozen fruits n berries (like my New Years drinkee)
selise @ 80
Has this come up at YKos yet?
Wonder how many “yes” voters will ever dare appear at any netroots events after this.
BigMitch @93
So, I am just saying, that the 25 ship jumpers really didn’t have much to be afraid of on the soft on terrorism count. Then just what is it they are so afraid of?
Someone has got something on them, is all I can figure. And that someone — I won’t mention any names — but his dad used to be the head of the C.I.A.
Some might dismiss what you say here. I don’t.
Praedor Atrebates @ 101
I’ve been saying that for years, but everybody says I’m a conspiracy theorist when I do…
wow. they are going to tackle Defense Approps tonight?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 77
Definitely not. They probably haven’t been with as many hookers, either. :)
jayt @ 51
Thank you.
GSD @ 117
get out! you’re just kidding us,
aren’t you?
Would they be that crass with the timing?
looseheadprop @ 58
LHP,
it is always a comfort to have you here to commiserate through the legal and legislative wrangles.
thanks for being here tonight.
~ ydj
jayt @ 108
ok thanks. :)
I was raised a Lincoln Hoover Republican, and crossed over to the bright side of the road after Tet –
For the first time in my life, I am ashamed to be a Democrat –
I am looking at YOU, Senator Salazar –
And all of the other Spineless America Hating, American Constitution Hating, so called DEMOCRATS — that voted for this Constitution gutting abomination . . .
ENOUGH — of gutless spineless craven politicial posuers —
I want DEMOCRATS that stand up for the Constitution —
I want DEMOCRATS that stand up for the American People –
I want DEMOCRATS that stand up for the Truths That We Hold Self Evident –
That All Humanity Is Created Equal –
I have no use for elected cowards, that extend ANY powers to the most corrupt administration in American History . . .
anne @ 91
Last night’s was to suspend rules and pass. In hindsight, more shenanigans.
The only “good” news is they made the Repubs swallow some decent stuff on the energy bill. But really weak tea.
Looks like the Repugs just took back the House
BigMitch @ 93
I like the idea of being analytical, but I find your hypothesis dificult. There are too many traitors on the D side for that to be operative. Too many people would have to know about the blackmail & something would leak. Weren’t there all kinds of rumors during J. Edgar Hoover that he was doing same? I haven’t caught a wiff of any such thing now.
Steroid dude just tied Hank Aaron’s record. Who cares, CNN? Our country’s in trouble, damn it.
selise @ 89
may loving vibes protect you.
and us all.
Cindy Sheehan will be announcing that she is running against Pelosi sometime next week. This is someone I can support.
Congress Cowards
or are they knowing that an attack is coming. More than “gut” talk.
Mrs. K8 @ 9
I am not quitting. I refuse to slink away just because we have lost one battle.
This is MY country, and the country of my beloved children, nieces, and nephews, and I’ll be damned if I yield their future to these criminals without a fight.
Today we lost one, tomorrow we pick up the fired o’glake and go forth again.
Margot @ 82
Oh, Margot!
I took a short break from the keyboard to tell Mr. K8 what happened — he was out on the roof cleaning the rain gutters when the dirty deed was finalized.
Just got back to see you.
A big hug for you, dear, if you give me one back.
Deal?
Oh, and even though I don’t eat sweets, I’ll send Mr. K8 out to pick some chocolate up just for you — and all the other Firepups!
Marty, as usual asks the right questions:
“Doesn’t this give the NSA all it had under the “TSP” between March 2004 and January 2007 — and much, much more, since there’s no requirement of any tie to an Al-Qaeda-related person? If so, and if they could get this sort of a deal from a Democratic-controlled Congress, what does that say about their unwillingness to go to a Republican-led Congress for those four years to seek a similar legislative fix, and to violate FISA unilaterally and in secret on the basis of a threadbare AUMF/Article II rationale? Is there any excuse now for their not having invoked the ordinary constitutional processes?”
Big Mitch,
Mr. 26% and his Gimp didn’t need to move a finger to have the “surge” revived by Pollack and O’Hanlon.
Not one fucking finger and yet much of the past week or so has been dominated by the “sea change” that has occurred in Iraq.
Those to men don’t need to push anything, the machine does all the work.
-GSD
Never ever will a dem get a penny from me. i am going to stop all incomming e mails and slow mail from these ballless halfwits.
SeamusD @ 138
Cindy’s got ovaries.
I don’t know who the current Speaker is, but he could always get a job in radio.
snowbird42 @ 134
Who cares? Dem, Rethug, the results are the same.
Well, I’m calling it a night. Good night all.
Optimist in me arising:
-The FISA bill is only temporary.
-All things will pass, including W/Cheney/Gonzo (even if it takes another 20 years).
-We just got a really good lesson in who the Democrats in Congress really are.
-Larry Flynt will let his list fly sooner or later.
Tonight, I am utterly, utterly ashamed of the Democratic party.
It’s like getting dental work, it’s hard to smile
Good night, realworld. Sleep well.
Praedor Atrebates @ 147
Rats vs. Pukes.
marymccurnin @ 68
You know, one of my state representaives is a neighbor and freind of mine. One day I was part of a rather large delegation that went to lobby him in his district office. Afterwards I stayed behind to chew the fat and started to appo;ogize for acting like a stranger demending legislative services instead of a friend.
He pooh poohed that and said that even when he already is in agreement with what his constitutents want him to do, he loves it when they come to lobby or even demonstrate because it lets him go lobby his fellow legislators (or at least defend his vote) when he gets to say “you don’t undertnd, 25 people were iny district office on Tuesday, and another 50 sent letters and and we got 85 phoe calls!!!”
Lobying and calling your legislators sometimes intimidates them into doing what you want, but other times it gives them the political cor to do what you want.
I’ve had a couple meetings up on the Hill latelym and one thing I have really, really noticed is that you have to start your explaination assuming the COngressman or Senator knows nothing whatsoever about the thing you have come to discuss. Explain as if to a class of 4th graders and you will get much further.
still listening to CSPAN. just so you know, there is nothing “taxpayer-friendly” about A-76 competitions. They are usually a waste of time and money and end up showing the Federal government can do a better job at lower cost (except where private sector competitors low ball the work to get the job).
GSD @ 117
See, America, it already produced results…!!! ;-)
snowbird42 @ 98
kabuki.
they want it to look as though the dems who voted against the bill were really against it. i’m not saying some of them weren’t - but we can’t tell who. if someone facilitates the rule fuckery and then votes against the bill? well, that’s the kind of thing that lieberman did when it came to alito.
and i think that’s what speaker pelosi just did tonight.
*** lot’s of disclaimers here… if i have this wrong, i hope someone will tell me… i’ve just been trying to figure it out today…
uhhh snowbird42@134
repugs have a firm grip on congress - dems just have a make-believe hold on it ;o)
yellowdog jim
epu’d from previous thread
Read KLAR & NYtimes. No wonder govt never did anything. Wrong kind of terrorists. Interesting from my geography is that the fake-IDs ended up in Staten Island! There was a Law & Order episode about a neoNazi group in Staten Island.
The Unitary heads would have broken the law anyway, now they have cover.
Much a-Qeda chedder dems afraid of terrorist attack blamed on them.
Disappointing.
Jonathan @ 124
I think that this is some dumb ass attempt at political strategy by the Dems. That is what makes this so fuckin stupid.
LS @ 149
The Larry Flynt mention made me smile. Thanks, LS.
Mrs. K8 @ 9
The first Saturday Night Massacre didn’t turn out so well for the perpetrators. It’s up to each and every one of us to ensure that the second doesn’t, either.
Pelosi is the new Chamberlain. Appeasement at the Recess.
How do we tell our children that we have given away their liberties?
To whom do turn to get our Constitution back, Mrs. Pelosi?
I’m with egregious.
No principle. No principle. Fight for what? Please tell me.
looseheadprop @ 154
Are most of them that fuc-in’ stupid?
If they have focused the intelligence agencies as much as they have focused Justice, then intelligence can now devote it’s entire budget to reelecting Republicans and prosecuting Democrats for giving aide to the enemy by questioning the Administrations plan in Iraq.
TheOtherWA @ 162
He’s about all we have left!!
egregious @ 140
But we are supposed to be fighting Repugs not our own.
Sharon @ 71
Very nice. Lucky 13 here. This too shall pass, JayT.
Meanwhile, WTF is going on? It’s like they’re not even trying to stop the bleeding here. AbuG gets to oversee this shit? I’m speechless. ANy links to roll-call? If my guy voted yea, I will be at his first public meeting in the district to chew his ear.
Elliott @ 151
Brace yourself?
musicsleuth @ 22
Quite.
LS @ 149
And when does it come up for reauth? Oh, yeah: smack bang in the middle of the big primaries. And Bush will still be playing the fear card.
Now we get the damn recess, the damn recess appointments, and who knows what kind of bitter fuckery?
snowbird42 @ 139
That is what I have been thinking!
Elliott @ 34
Good instinct. We must work harder and smarter.
There’s no hiding it this time. It is oh, so obvious that a deal was done. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi conspired behind closed doors to do the White House’s bidding, and then tried to hide their tracks with empty words and emptier votes. It’s one thing to abandon your branch of government. It’s quite another to do so with malice aforethought and to then attempt to cover your dastardly deed with deceptive parliamentary procedure. Reid and Pelosi own this betrayal and the unAmerican bill it produced, and their true colors are fully revealed tonight for all to see - their carefully-fabricated public facade of “honest, open” government is gone.
This was a done deal by yesterday, which was why Harry Reid was able to adjourn the Senate for the month, by midnight last night. He had nothing to worry about - the House was going to rubberstamp, via Pelosi’s promised behind-the-scenes manipulation of the House Rules process. She could have prevented the Senate bill from reaching the House floor, but chose not to. The House rules committee rule for the Senate FISA bill issued today allowed a simple majority vote for passage, at Pelosi’s behest, and very limited debate. Pelosi didn’t even bother to say a word tonight. You can run, Nancy Pelosi, but you cannot hide - try as you might. We’re on to you.
The Constitution nevertheless remains unchanged. It has not been amended. But it has now been openly and admittedly violated by both the Executive and Legislative Branches of government, so that we have only one Constitution-abiding branch left. We must get this unConstitutional new FISA “law” into the Judicial Branch as fast as possible, and remove the interpretation of the Fourth Amendment from our Executive and Legislative Branch “leadership” who clearly prefer the Soviet style of government to ours.
Don’t know how, don’t know where, don’t know when, but this travesty against the Fourth Amendment and our inalienable rights must be challenged in court by a party with standing ASAP.
@68 Mary
I live in Menlo Park. Happy to join. Organize on Facebook?
egregious @ 140
And again.
i’m with you.
Phoenix Woman @ 123
i’m not at ykos, so i really don’t know. but glenn greenwald wrote a great post about it today and he’s there.
realworld @ 110
Linky please?
TheOtherWA @ 136
Yuck.
TheOtherWA @ 162
I’ll second that!!! 8-)
I just searched “A-76 Process” and the first 2 pgs of hits were all .mil & .gov sites telling me how they would save all this money by getting rid of the Government workers and using contractors. Isn’t that illegal? Sessions was just gloating how it would screw “Union Bosses”…
Millineryman @ 165
huh? where? in Chicago?
posaune @ 164
I hope Kos puts up a new approval rating poll up on Monday. I bet neither Reid or Pelosi would get 20% approval at this point.
I’ve had a couple meetings up on the Hill lately and one thing I have really, really noticed is that you have to start your explanation assuming the Congressman or Senator knows nothing whatsoever about the thing you have come to discuss. Explain as if to a class of 4th graders and you will get much further.
That’s so sad. Not doubting you - it’s just sad.
OMG! What if prOn king Larry Flynt really IS the guy who saves the country? In the bizzaro land that is present day Amerika, it just might happen.
Hahahahahaha!
(I think I’m getting punchy, don’t mind me…)
Larry Flynt is the man we hate to love.
Again, those that were saying that Gonzales is on his way out are smoking some kerosene soaked crack.
The Democratically controlled House and Senate just saw fit to expand his authority.
Yes, not punish, not impeach him, nor reprimand him, they just INCREASED HIS POWER.
So anyone thinking that something will come from any further hearings about Gonzales can just hang it up.
-GSD
I’m sitting at a bar in Second Life watching all the Yearlykos SL attendees dancing and partying and having fun, and no one is talking about FISA… and I don’t have the heart to say something about it just yet.
LS @ 169
How messed up is that? Larry Flynt, savior of the U.S. of A.
Bob Schacht @ 181
aloha, Bob. just click on my screen name.
TiredFed @ 185
Not in Chicago, with her statement at 140.
I try not to quote so many comments in threads like this.
Now that the Democratic folks have caved in,
someone at Yearly Kos want to get a gold star?
Put ‘em on the spot when they show.
Tell them from Busted to go fuck themselves and not to bother when they want some back.
I don’t truck to caving on something that should be obvious.
File under Lying sacks of weasel shit.
xuli @ 179
Yes.
Eureka Springs @ 172
we’re getting drilled
TiredFed @ 185
Nothing but Net!!! *g*
Riesz Fischer @ 153
The contempt for the rank and file Democrats all over the country who have been betrayed by some of their representatives shown by these remarks is remarkable.
LS @ 149
On the other hand, you can’t un-screw someone, you can’t un-torture them, and you sure as hell can’t un-kill them. The damage that has been done to our country by this administration may eventually scar over, but the country will never be the same.
lolo @ 52
Here’s a list I copied off something earlier today.
Sorry, no link, but these are the Dems I copied down as voting FOR the stinkin’ thing:
Bayh(IN) Carper(DE) Casey(PA) Conrad(ND) Feinstein(CA) Inouye(HI) Klobucher(MN) Landrieu(LA) Lincoln(AR) McCaskill(MO) Mikulski(MD) Nelson(FL) Nelson(NE) Pryor(AR) Salazar(CO) Webb(VA)
ALL OTHER Dems voted AGAINST it.
All Repubs. voted for it.
Terrapin @ 191
don’t. they deserve a little fun. tomorrow is soon enough. and btw, fear the turtle.
Everything they have meetings about is super secret, hush, hush and should be.
As angry as I am , I still find it hard to understand why we were sold out. I still have to believe they are on our side. Surely they notice what we did in the last election?
(voice of the announcer guy from abc’s wide world of sports) now climbing the tower is Suzanne, representing The Free Republic of Suzanne wearing what can only be described as a diving outfit with a large one finger salute emblazoned on front and the back)
boing boing - reverse one and a half somersaults with three and a half twists, in the free position - no splash
Phoenix Woman @ 109
That is just what the fixing of the bridges and dams will cost!
jayt @ 62
How about a pint of ice cream instead?
yellowdog jim @ 179
One battle? Where you been? We haven’t won a single battle yet! The troops are cowards and incompetent! They funded the Iraq supplemental very first thing. Before that they let Alito and Roberts onto the SCROTUS (and now act as if they are surprised by their criminal activity there). They have failed to hold a single Admin official accountable for the many many crimes they’ve committed. They passed the Patriot Act, re-authorized it, then they passed the Enabling Act of 2007 tonight! One battle lost?! Not ONE battle won! And no, the minimum wage does NOT count for shit!
pseudonymous in nc @ 174
I know. There is no excuse for any of it. We are fucked.
pow wow @ 175
If only it (court) could be done very quickly so congress would not be able to do this or worse come sunset.
Mrs. K8 @ 142
Of course, big hugs for you, always.;)
Thank Mr. K8 for me and tell him to get Dove Bars, Andes thin mints and Reese’s Cups. Not that I’m picky or anything..:)
Millineryman @ 165
I’m with egregious too.
Elliott @ 197
and without Novoca*ne!
Urban Pirate @ 182
something cosmic about the timing?
Millineryman @ 194
ah, I see. thanks. couldn’t agree more (with you and her).
Mrs. K8 @ 72
Tonight was the VERY FIRST TIME I have ever heard the ex-Mr Prop criticize the Bush/Cheney administration. He immigrated to this country from South Africa. Although the rugby there is top notch, the civil liberties were almost non existant when he was growing up there.
When the vote finshed he started telling the kids about what it like to live in a country where you can tap the phones at will.
I tell you this: Mr. Prop’s office is decorated like a shrine to Bush/Cheney, especailly Cheney.
If they have lost Ex-Mr. Prop’s support……..
I am just stunned. He said today is the day the USA became a totalitarian regime. This is a GOP prime donor!
Terrapin @ 191
Throw some cocktail weenies at them.
-GSD
pow wow @ 175 -
you write like a dream and with the passion of thomas paine.
thank you.
GSD @ 216
Jesus General’d throw me out- it’s his bar.
mulligatawny @ 205
Oh. How timely.
Please give the General my regards and stiff salute.
-GSD
Terrapin @ 218
Jesus General drinks?
I’ve Got The Blues before
SunsetSunrisejc inOR @ 199
You mean the Rats who are repeatedly betrayed by the Democrat leadership and keep going back for more? Like Charlie Brown when Lucy holds the football?
snowbird42 @ 170
i conclude that most of the dems are not our own. especially the leadership.
snowbird42 @ 203
Quit thinking along that line because that hope is empty and devoid of all nutrients. They did NOT have a good reason. They do NOT know better than we do about…well ANYTHING. They are wrong far more than they are right, so much so that it appears that they are right purely by random chance.
They sold us out. By us I mean the entire population. They canceled the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. POOF! No redress. You get spied on now, free and clear, by BushCo and you cannot sue for it because it is all secret shit and you have “no standing” in the Alito/Roberts court system. You have NO STANDING on the 4th and 5th Amendments that are now able to be violated with wild abandon because the House AND the Senate said: knock yourselves out Bushie!
Yoo must be creaming his pants now. His dreams have come true. The President is now truly a dictator.
I’ve got to learn about this second life stuff. Seems interesting, but I may be too middleaged to get it. :P
LHP,
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
burnspbesq @ 206
Ha. Already did that. I’m fine now, but thanks to all for the concern.
I have the second day of a craft show tomorrow and had no sleep last night.
You all are the one good thing about tonight.
jayt @ 62
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 186
Adie @ 201
Feinstein sure has been busy this week giving consent for bigoted judges and voting for unconstitutional FISA provisions.
Does the passage of this insane bill mean that now when we’re attacked again in another flase flag operation that BushCo can call for Marshal Law to be invoked? We just became prisoners in the land of the partially free and the home far from being brave. What a bunch of spineless weenies the Dem’s have become.
Suzanne @ 204
Ooh, last nite ya did 2 1/2 twists, tonite 9.9 on TM alone!!! Bon Soir, Ma Cheri!!!
eCAHNomics @ 159
exactly.
wrong Color Terrorists.
search terms:
William J. Krar;
Noonday, Texas.
links:
http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1562621
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/.....94DB404482
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archi.....04_3733385
http://www.thebulletin.org/art.....04reynolds
http://www.rickross.com/refere.....ts126.html
http://www.austinchronicle.com.....aked6.html
http://www.alternet.org/rights/17514/
http://www.altmuslim.com/perm......0_26_0_C32
http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/003410.html
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004_05_02_dneiwert_archive.html#108372108971437668
and
http://www.informationclearing.....le5350.htm
(dear moderators, i expect this to be moderated and i am patient and appreciated of your moderation: thnaks.)
KKK is probably jumping around with his cell phone partying bigtime….I’m nauseated.
I think the key lesson from the FISA cave in is that the Democrats are not our friends. Yes, we agree on certain issues, but this does not make them our friends. Harry Reid (and Nancy Pelosi for that matter) has more in common with Joseph Lieberman than he has with us. It’s good to keep that in mind.
I’m in the ’some are being blackmailed’ camp. Rove is way too unscrupulous to not use this tactic. And I’m going to add to that list.
I think that Supreme Court Justice Roberts is in the closet. Those rumors aren’t new. And for the record, I couldn’t care less. But, if it’s true then he was a perfect choice for Cheney/Rove. Someone of his intelligence and reputation who can be approved by the senate with the added bonus of complete control of him afterward. Maybe that was the pressure that caused the seizure. Maybe a favor was called in that even he found reprehensible. I don’t even think this is tinfoil hat stuff. This is how they operate.
LS @ 149
Would that it were so. Unfortunately, with the democratic congress approving this bill it would be really hard to impeach the President for doing acts forbidden by the Constitution, since they just passed a bill, well, forbidden by the Constitution.
OTOH, maybe, oh God, please let it be, this is a prelude to saying, “see, he didn’t have to break the law, he could have come to us and we would have written the law he wanted.” Not much chance they were thinking this way, but it might be a useful spin later on down the road.
Seems appropriate to our conversations:
Glenn Greenwald’s latest Update:
Karl Rove’s election year oppo research just got one hell of a boost.
I can’t wait for the RNC lecture next time I do my taxes.
-GSD
snowbird42 @ 170
I am not fighting for Democrats, even though I almost always vote for them. I fight for my values, and in political terms that means the Constitution. Anyone, Democrat, Republican, Green, Libertarian, or whatever, who does not actively support the Constitution is not so likely to get my support.
Bob in HI
Eureka Springs @ 209
Cannot be done. No one has “standing”, not even those about to be OFFICIALLY spied upon because it is all supersecretsquirrel shit. Remember, the AT&T suit by the ACLU got tossed for lack of standing. This is part of the very same deal. There is NO WAY to demonstrate standing and no way to get this into court…certainly not one ruled by Roberts/Alito types.
No, RF. People who know that only when mobilized en masse well their will be done. There are Dems that are organizing them and there are Dems bloviating. One must live in the real world, not the comics.
Why isn’t the YKos conventioneers abuzz with the bad news??? Hmmm…??? :-(
If a Democrat caves in after being blackmailed instead of going to the floor of the House or Senate and exposing it, then they are scum bags.
That is just magical thinking. There were no rubber hoses and hot lights, the ones that voted for this are afraid to be called weak on terrorism.
The exact same motivation for all of the pro-AUMF votes.
-GSD
Suzanne @ 204
Judges grade = 10.0. (Are dives still graded on a 1-10 score? Haven’t watched any diving competition in a long long time. Well, whatever the scoring scheme, that one got a perfect.)
Mrs. K8 @ 90
WHat a great idea! WHat an execllent symbol!
The MSM would pick that up b/c it gives them a visual (like the yellow ribbons for captives or red ribbons of r aids, etc) .
On of my systers teached TeeVee journalism and she is always smacking me around about the “visual” which either by itslef tells the story (if you had the sound off, you would still get the message) or at least piques the intrest and immagination.
The revolutionay flag fits the bill. You can fly it as a flag, get a bumper sticker, put it on a baseball cap or tee shirt.
YOU ARE A GENIUS!
Eureka Springs @ 222
that’s just how I feel.
Mad Dogs @ 238
You know, at a Moveon.org sponsored event in Philly, I asked Feingold the exact same thing. Why are a lot of Democrats in DC so spinless. He said what Dodd did. If I ever see Dodd or Feingold, I want to ask them what they will do to talk sense into the spineless Dems.
Here’s the roll call for vote 836, the Protect America Act.
House vote 836.
Thank God my rep voted NO.
Seems like a good time to bookmark this:
http://cindyforcongress.org/
Under construction at the moment, but I bet something will be there very soon now!
I’m suffering from Bushie Fundie envy. I wish I was ignorant enough and brainwashed enough to believe this Administration was good and just and looking out for the interests of our country, the Homeland….that would be so much easier…
No. I’m going way radical. Kucinich or Gravel.
looseheadprop @ 246
Does anyone have a link to a place where we can buy the original flag? The one you describe.
eCAHNomics @ 245
A similar point system is utilized by Figure Skating, Gymnastics, etc… Similar factors as well!!!
got to call it a night. see y’all in the morning.
You know, in a perverse way I’m happy that they can read my email and blog postings. They can find out just how low I think they are, and they’ll find out how happy I will be when we have a Dem president and a real Democratic Congress (not the bunch of gutless wonders we have in there now) and we can throw the entire sorry lot of Republicans into the trash can where they belong.
TiredFed @ 193
Got it. Thanks.
Bob in HI
egregious @ 140
Remember the scene in Tom Clancy’s “The Bear and the Dragon,” where a large group of angry students crashes a meeting of the Chinese Politburo and “arrests” the chairman of the party for treason? I’m thinking that we need to do a re-enactment in the Oval, starring approximately 1,000,000 American patriots.
g’night TiredFed, thanks for all of your insight
It’s now official - two parties run things in DC - chickenhawks (R) and chickenshits (D). It’s hard to see the difference.
This looks like a textbook case of trying not to look weak on terror, when in fact, they would have been miles down the road to say stuff it, we already been down this road.
Fer chrissakes, they won’t even let members of the committee see what is supposed to be theirs to oversee!
Naw, I can’t see any of them standing up and crowing about how patriotic they are, the backlash is still coming on this one.
Jonathan @ 166
Here’s what I’m fighting for:
Restore constitutional government.
Honor the Geneva Conventions.
End the war.
Never a dime for a dem.
how can we find out who in the house voted for this?
Chris W @ 255
Me too. I pretty much direct most of my comments directly at them. (waving).
jcricket @ 263
here ya go
Praedor Atrebates @ 207
Tell that to someone who’s trying to get by on it.
selise @ 157
pow wow’s right - it mostly happened last night.
The vote was to “suspend and pass”. That means 2/3 must want it to pass. It could have been “suspend and vote”. Then you need 2/3 to suspend (which could have both people from each side) and a majority to pass.
And as pow wow points out, Reid sent the Senate home. He knew they wouldn’t be called back to reconcile.
Chris W @ 256
I have had that thought for quite some snarky time..
Maybe they are actually listening.
Suzanne @ 204
Wow.
Suzanne shows us how to lead the RESISTANCE movement with NO SPLASH!!!
That’s one smooth trick.
LoudounLib @ 259
what LL said!
Mad Dogs @ 239
Thanks for that post. I needed that.
TheOtherWA @ 249
Repeat, here’s the roll-call.
My two NH reps were on the side of angels.
-GSD
TiredFed @ 185
In principle, I think. Facing the loss with courage and preparing to fight anew tomorrow.
TheOtherWA @ 249
Aargh, once again I have to vent at ya’ll on the Mainland!!! Hey, I’ll register within a state for ya!!! *g*
looseheadprop @ 246
I started flying the U.N. flag after 9/11, to protest excessive patriotism. It’s a great little protest device because the wingnuts driving by the house don’t know what it is.
Why, yes. Elmer’s Flag and Banner has two that could work, the Bennington or the Betsy Ross flag.
egregious @ 140
I’m with you, Egregious. I’m not quitting, either.
Bob in HI
egregious @ 274
Exactly.
egregious @ 261
I’ll fight for these things too. But I won’t trust ANYONE in congress.
TheOtherWA @ 249
To hell with Ben Chandler. Let Kentucky keep that crazy son-of-a-gun Jim Bunning in the Senate. Chandler doesn’t deserve our help in ‘10.
Lovely dive, Suzanne!
I sent this to my former congresscritters tonight (former because I no longer recognize them as representing me … maybe the Rep when the names on the votes come in …):
You couldn’t print what I think about Congress tonight.
Hi Suzanne!
CTuttle @ 244
They’ve been working together, going to session after session, networking together and eating together for three days. Saturday night at the conference is ‘let your hair down’ night. I’m glad they’re having fun. They earned it.
Instead of following this bullshit, my wife and I just watched the last 2 episodes of the second season of the “Wire”. Great crime drama with an incredibly complex plot. At the end, after all this work by the street cops, nothing changes. The big fish get away and the drug traffic goes on unabated. Same as this shit in DC, fuck em all.
pow wow @ 177
Pow wow, this is exactly right. Except we are now layering unconstitutionality upon unconstitutionality. FISA and the FISA Court itself is of extremely dubious constitutionality in my opinion (and I thought so since before it was passed) based upon 4th amendment considerations, confrontation clause considerations and, to a lesser extent, separation of powers considerations. that was before the little exercise tonight to try to force fix a constitutional defect to an unconstitutional statute with anothe unconstitutional statutory amendment.
TheOtherWA @ 250
that’s good. but it’s no guarantee that your rep wanted the bill to fail. the question is would your rep have voted no if the rule was suspended and 2/3 votes were required to pass? in other words - would your rep have voted no if it meant that the bill would fail?
we can tell for sure the reps who voted “yes” are not on the side of our values.
but i don’t think we can tell for sure about the “no”s. such is the rule fuckery.
burnspbesq @ 267
Hmmm. Constitution vs $7/hr, Constitution vs $7/hr…I dunno? I’ll take the GODDAMNED CONSTITUTION. Are you honestly suggesting that it is a fair tradeoff? The Constitution for $7/hr? Are. You. Mad?
raven @ 285
Great example.
Police have suspects in the murder of California editor/journalist.
The deadly bakery guys.
-GSD
SeamusD @ 138
ALthough I doubt she can actually win, and I rarely get involved in symbolic “sacrifical lamb” campaigns; I’m thingkin’ some loud and well funded support for Mrs. Sheehan might send a message to Madame Speaker.
I don’t usually advocate giving money to a lost cause, but believe you me, If Cindy Sheehan beats Nancy Pelosi in their fisrt head to head fundraisng reporting period
The whole paradigm will shift fpr Madame Speaker
TheOtherWA @ 276
Thanks!!!
whew - just got on - just saw the results - so glad my rep (hinchey) voted no along w/ schumer & clinton. i dont think i could sleep tonite if my congresspeople voted aye
my sincere condolences to all of you facing that disappointment tonite
the Dems look like fools repeatedly. I think it is because some are afraid of what happens if the really cross the Bushies. The DOJ can still indict if there is grounds. A lot of these people are just plain dirty (both Parties) and sunlight makes them scatter. The NSA / FBI / NSLs have been used in good order. Do you think KKKarl has a terminal for directed searches in his blackberry?
Here’s a positive thought:
The Dem’s vote probably averted a terrorist attack on Congress, so now the capitol police can relax.
Afterall, that is what was reported and that is what W warned everybody about.
See. The Dems saved DC.
Republicans like to say “Freedoms on the march” but they really mean in their cold black hearts is Fascism is on the march.
Well, at least Maloney voted against. She’s pretty whimpy, but usually votes the right way. I’ll write her a nice little thank you, also expressing my displeasure with the 25 who voted for, and urging her to offer them copies of the Constitution and their oath of office.
TiredFed @ 254
Nite, TF, your pix looked like it was shot at Castle Neuschwanstien!
Bob Schacht @ 241
Really thoughtful comments, and appreciated.
I really feel low spirited right now.
I spent an hour this a.m. away from my family working on two swing voters who are open to voting for a d for the first time in their lives.
My arguments were earnest and heartfelt, but I couldnt argue for voting d right now.
Of course, I could argue against voting r, but god dammit, it’s gotta be more than that.
Right now I am completely disgusted.
solai @ 237
I agree, there is no need whatsoever for any Reynolds Wrap here.
Everybody was shocked back in the seventies when all the COINTELPRO stuff came out.
And we all know that these people today are worse by several orders of magnitude in terms of their sociopathy.
LATE NITE
Educated Plaintiff @ 293
Where you at? My country house’s in Hinchey’s district in Ulster County. A prince of a man.
fox is saying on its new JER program that dems ruined the TSP since it’s only for 6 months.
wtf?
Pelosi and Reid, and maybe all of the cowards in Congress must pay. Cindee Sheehan for Congrass. Hold back all of your political contributions, and tell em why. Let em beg. The record is public, anyone who did not vote the way they should have, must be punished at the ballot box. We have the power to set the agenda. Let’s set it.
The present group is all in it together. What difference does it make, right now, whether we have a Republican or Democratic congress? Neither of them protect the Constitution of the American people. They are true to their class, and that is all. Efuch em. We can defund a cantidate too. They’re coming back. Pelosi, especially likes to hear how great she is from her constituants. If you live around Palo Alto, or on the Peninsula go tell her. And tell her why you’re not voting for her or contributing to her. She’ll dismiss it, but when she can’t raise enough money, she’ll either have to change her tune, or go to the big corporations, and then we have another scandle. It is time to start up the bus. The one we throw Pelosi and Reid under!
GordonM @ 267
pow wow at #175 excellent analysis. This is another case of politicians, this time Democrats, thinking that no one was watching, or would understand their deviousness, or remember it. To that extent, they just don’t get the blogosphere because we were watching, undestood, and will remember. More than this, however, many Americans who were not following this closely will still come away with the impression that the Democrats did not show that they were strong on national security but that they caved again to a deeply disliked and unpopular President.
It is pretty much as Glenn Greenwald put it. They come across as weak and will get the blame they so desperately wanted to avoid anyway.
GordonM @ 267
Do you know who was the Senate sponsor of the bill? Mitch “George’s Bitch” McConnell!!!
Just a quick skim and recognize some names on the boy-king’s side…Carney (oh shit, Howie’s gonna be pissed), Shuler (no surprise), and I thought Tim Walz was supposed to be a good guy…oh well…
We’re all on a long road here, and we haven’t even reached the first rest stop yet. Onward!
When Ralph Nader told us way back in 2000 that the Democrats and Republicans were but two sides of the same coin, he and those of us who supported him were vilified. Now, good Democrats (and Republicans of conscience) are shocked to learn the awful truth of the matter.
The only possible course I see available to us is to defend the Constitution of the United States of America from the bottom up. This can be done on a local and state level by, for example, working to declare your school, municipality — or entire state — a “free speech zone”. Many other ideas come to mind but the point is, defending the Constitution and the Bill of Rights should be something virtually every citizen can get behind, irrespective of party affiliation. I would emphasize that this be done peacefully. As to methods, Ghandi has shown us the way.
The apparatus of the Federal Government and the MSM may be under the control of the enemies of the Constitution, but we can beat them from the ground up. Indeed, it must be apparent that attempts to beat them solely from the top down will have limited success, at best. However, such valiant efforts should continue — a “pincer movement”, if you will.
Whether we live as free Americans under the Constitution or become oppressed subjects of an increasingly totalitarian government is up to us. Waiting passively for any politican to save us is surely tantamount to personal complicity in the destruction of our beloved country.
We now must save ourselves.
God bless us all.
looseheadprop @ 291
if cindy raises some serious $… that would send a very good message. i’m in. can’t be for a lot, but i’ll do my part.
Andrew @ 308
Well, Andrew. Some may attack you for being a Naderite. Not I.
looseheadprop @ 247
Thanks!
I also figure it serves as “code” or a “dog whistle” to all those who love the Constitution.
Then you can just TRIPLE DOG DARE the pigs to get in your face about it, because what the hell could be more patriotic then to fly the flag of BETSY FREAKIN’ ROSS, eh?
Maybe it came to me because I grew up just a short way from the Betsy Ross House.
Yeah, well if Ralph was the only alternative then I would be worried. He was right about that one thing– the Democrat Party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republic Party.
The U.S. Congress is doing nothing different than the German Reichstag did in 1933-35 when Hitler made his demands on becoming Chancellor. The Nazi’s in the Reichstag supported every legislative initiative that Hitler called for and the opposition parties thought it best to bide their time until it was more politically advantageous for them to act. Sound familiar?
egregious @ 273
YES.
Jonathan @ 310
At the time, he was the lesser of two evils in my mind.
Andrew: ‘We now must save ourselves.
God bless us all. ‘ Do I detect a non sequiter here?
Athiests Working Somewhat Within the Democratic Party Even Though it Has Termites, and Seems to No Longer Have any Intellectual Underpinnings (At Least at the DNC Level)
Jonathan @ 309
Andrew, I second that emotion (except the goD part)
snowbird42 @ 170
It’s not about what/who you are fighting against.
It’s about what you are fighting for.
I am with EG.
An I LOVE Mrs. K8’s idea about the revolutionary flagBob Schacht @ 181
You just click on TireFed’s undrlined anme and it takes you there like magic.
All the names with underlines have their won sites, yo just click on thier names
Democrat Party!
Democrat Congress, Democrat Leadership Council, Democrat candidates, Democrat administration, Democrat president, Democrat Jellyfish, Democrat Party, Democrat Party, Democrat Party, Democrat Party, Democrat Party!
Try it– it feels good!
One day off (sunday) for everyone. Monday we hit the phones to all the misvoting dems….to explain to their staffs (oh so politely) why we will neither voting nor funding them this next election.
We need our own hard-ass group of activists who will do the same kind of dirty dealing that these politicians thing they’re good at. Whether that means investigating them on our own (scandle stuff), or going out and going door to door to defeat them…..let em know about it. What have we got to lose. We’ve got NOTHING now. Two sets of Republicans. Pelosi and Reid ought to switch parties (and while we’re at it, Feinstine) because that’s who they are. They’re no better than Lieberman….How many more times are we going to allow them to screw the Constitution. Lie down and spread your legs just once more, America.
My Two Cents On This Horror
I can barely contain my rage.
TheOtherWA @ 250
I’m almost sorry mine did too. I was looking forward to ripping him another one when he got home… Oh well, I won’t be this pissed tomorrow. Just hungover.
I’m back from the previous thread for about 5 minutes before I go out for the evening. A drive up to Santa Barbara is in order, I think…
Hang in there, jayt, on taking that 1st drink- have you called your sponsor or a friend? Or you could stick around here among those who have voiced how much they care. Believe me, they do.
And for all the disheartened here- it’s hard to remember right now, but it’s not the being thrown down, it’s the staying down that beats you.
Faut etre dure, mes amis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iYbEPZVVIA
powwow at 175 says it all in his analysis. You want see that on MTP, however. Pelosi and Reid have got to go! As soon as Sheehan announces she’s getting money. Every progressive that believes in the Constitution should support Sheehan in defeating Pelosi in the primaries.
Riesz Fischer @ 318
You’re kidding, I assume. If I miss the joke, please excuse me.
eCAHNomics @ 302
woodstock
you?
Please join us upstairs in the new thread.
Once the comments get this high it is a strain on the servers.
Phoenix Woman @ 123
I was just over ‘tother place remarking that the vote came in after the public sessions at YKos are probably over.
Regarding face-showing, I hope we get lots of good analysis of the nuts and bolts of this stunt, and get it into plenty of visible places, because I think more than just those who actually voted for the thing need to know that citizens see what is going on.
Educated Plaintiff @ 326
Middletown which is also Hinchey territory. Glad he voted the way he did or it was going to get ugly.
Well, thank Jeebus my Rep. voted NO!
Lofgren (D) Silicon Valley
We have a pretty well educated populace here, though we also have a few stooges.
Like the guy in the 9-foot high 4×4 with the big sign on the back that says “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder.” Isn’t that that jackoff WienerSavage’s little catch phrase?
Anyway, I always want to pull up and tell him that Conservatism is a Social Disease. But I’m on a motorcycle, and my guess is that he’d run me over.
No sense of humor, these wingnuts.
At any rate, my rep is pretty good, as politicians go. One Senator, however, needs to be harangued at all times. Feinstein no longer has any Democrat left in her. Too bad she ran in ‘06, can’t give her the boot till 2012. I like Boxer, even though she didn’t vote. I want to find out why.
OK, that was rambling. Too much C-SPAN in the background today, too much unconstitutional nonsense.
So, we’ll all go beat up (figure of speech, NSA) our Reps and Sens. next week, if they earned it, and Mr. Reid and Mrs. Pelosi will need the special brand of ire for allowing this to happen.
Glad you netwierdos and dirty hippies are here, otherwise I might think no one else cared…
TheOtherWA @ 277
I think it’s the Betsy Ross thatr mrs. K8 was talking about
thread upstairs already, jim.
Andrew @ 329
lol - agree
btw - john hall voted nay too (i worked phones for his campaign)
To all:
Some 40 years ago, my first job in Nam was defending a hospital. We got hit the very first night I was their, and a young captain came out the next morning and stood in front of the body bags and said “Okay, people, last night we got hit, and five or our guys and 3 of our girls are lying there. We had a bad day. But we are fighting for our friends, and even though we lost this one, We’re gonna pick our chins and our asses up of the ground, and go out there and do it.” Then he unziped the top parts of all of the body bags and said “Look. These were your friends. When you go out there, let their images haunt you. This is what you are fighting for.”
Guys, the battle is just begun. I’m with egregious. This is my country. Not King George’s. The flags are a good idea. We lost one today, and wrapped in those body bags is the Constitution. Take a good look, and then pick your chins off the the ground, and get on the phones.
“We, the people of the United States…..” That’s what we’re fighting for!
snowbird42 @ 32
I with you in sentiment, but I’m not sure who are the good guys and the bad. There seems to be a lot of tension between the DNC, which is Howard Dean’s organization, on the one hand and the DCCC & DSCC on the other. Also, the DLC and A*P*C seem to come into play as well. I wish someone would lay out the taxonomy of Democratic leadership and explain at whom I should be pissed off.
cynic @ 334
nicely said, Sir.
marymccurnin @ 221
Hey, its a virtual world.
Bob in HI
And of course everyone realizes now that the House is intent on leaving itself no political cover from which they can even contemplate impeaching anybody, because they are now complicit in at least one of the areas that was the most promising. You think they will instead go on to try to pick through a case on lying the country into the Iraq War, or any of the other more difficult and time-consuming avenues? Or politicization of executive departments? These shysters really do want all of that left unexamined, I increasingly believe. I guess they want to take the old Daley-style machine national.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml
Here’s who caved.
David Ehrenstein @ 321
David, your piece says it all for me. Thank you for writing it.
Decided not to drive anywhere tonight- after two Sapphire & tonics it might be better to stay put ;)
Couldn’t get back into my last comment to correct the spelling- “Faut etre dur.” It means “you need to be tough,” & we’d all better be to stand up against what is yet coming from what is left of BushCo’s time @ America’s helm.
I think some states will start trying to suceed. Then B will send in Haliburton. It’ll be interesting. But which state first, Vermont or Montanna?
Perhaps the fact that the Dems DID support, and gave a standing ovation for, LIEBERMAN, was a good indicator of what they really are.
I just got here. Can someone tell me (before I search 342 comments) if there is a link posted to the roll call vote on amending FISA?
“We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.”
– Abraham Lincoln
I will now register as an Independent
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml
Cowards
Unless the Dems impeach Gonzales and zero out ALL Executive Branch funding, this Liberal is NOT voting for the Dem Presidential candidate in 2008
If the Dems want to tell us libs, yet again, to get lost, when they let legislation come to the floor that they don’t have to, then the Dems can kiss up to some other sucker, preferably those that think W is actually combating, instead of appeasing at every opportunity, Usama bin Laden
The Dems, caving into W yet again, all their BS claims of “railroaded into voting” notwithstanding, have proven once again that it will always whimper in fear from a massively unpopular and politically isolated President, as opposed to standing with us and our Constitution
Good job Dems, I hope the other libs give you similar good wishes come the 2008 elections that you’re giving us with this complete act of craven cowardice on the Dems part today
Let’s look on the bright side. We still have the third amendment! Yeah! Take that, domestic troops!
“When you swear to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, you’re supposed to mean it.”
Well, Here is the official list of the vote tonight”
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml#Y
Only 2 Republicans voted against. One of them was Shays(CT), not sure if he really feels that way or if it was for political survival.
Don’t know who the other R was.
I was rebuked (at another blog) for suggesting that one might cast a ballot that was for neither Republican nor Democrat. I’d be curious to know how many of those who have normally voted D will continue to do so.
Divide and Conquer
Why am I not surprised that my Local DINO Bryan Higgins is on the Yeas side of the ledger…I hope I don’t run into him in a dark alley…
(MOD NOTE: I am going to assume you are referring to a hypothetical dark alley since threats of violence are not permitted at FireDogLake)
We have spent years burning a lot of hot air blaming Bush for everything from Iraq and Gonzales to gum on the sidewalk.
Time to re-examine.
Time to recognize the complicity of the Dems. The depth of the corruption and the lack of guts. They care more about building careers than the do about doing the job we elected them to do.
Time to think about not re-electing anybody.
Hell, its past time.
is the operative word in your post, I think.
eCAHNomics @ 30
Dems/House
Jason Altmire (4th Pennsylvania)
Melissa Bean (8th Illinois)
Dan Boren (2nd Oklahoma)
Allen Boyd (2nd Florida)
Christopher Carney (10th Pennsylvania)
Ben Chandler (6th Kentucky)
Henry Cuellar (28th Texas)
Artur Davis (7th Alabama)
Lincoln Davis (4th Tennessee)
Joe Donnelly (2nd Indiana)
Brad Ellsworth (8th Indiana)
Bob Etheridge (North Carolina)
Bart Gordon (6th Tennessee)
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (South Dakota)
Brian Higgins (27th New York)
Baron Hill (9th Indiana)
Nick Lampson (23rd Texas)
Daniel Lipinski (3rd Illinois)
Jim Marshall (8th Georgia)
Jim Matheson (2nd Utah)
Mike McIntyre (7th North Carolina) Charlie Melancon (3rd Louisiana) Harry Mitchell (5th Arizona)
Colin Peterson (7th Minnesota)
Earl Pomeroy (North Dakota)
Ciro Rodriguez (23rd Texas)
Mike Ross (4th Arkansas)
John Salazar (3rd Colorado)
Heath Shuler (11th North Carolina)Vic Snyder (2nd Arkansas)
Zachary Space (18th Ohio)
John Tanner (8th Tennessee)
Gene Taylor (4th Mississippi)
Timothy Walz (1st Minnesota)
Charles A. Wilson (6th Ohio)
Think how many of our customer service conversations, about, say, our IT products and accounts, involve international transmissions. There should be abundant fruit for the picking.
jayt @ 187
So they don’t know what they are doing. They deserve to be thrown out. And their ignorance is very convenient, too convenient.
I posted this on the WaPo.
I give my deepest scorn to the Democrats who thought more about being re-elected than they did about protecting the Constitution. Having said that, I am thankful that a majority of Democrats stood tall against the fearmongering and voted against this egregious legislation. Unfortunately only 2 Republicans stood up to protect the Constitution.
While the Democratic Party has been severely damaged by this vote, the Republican Party has taken an even heavier blow. Their Party is now dead in the eyes of a lot of Americans. No more will we split our vote, as long as, radicals control the Republican Party. Their Party’s once proud tradition of supporting civil liberties died with their votes this weekend. President Bush has in effect led his Party like lemmings over a cliff. It will take years for them to regain the trust of a great many people in this country. To all of those who voted for this legislation or supported those who did, they need to be reminded of Benjamin Franklin’s words -
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Benjamin Franklin
We need a mechanism to actively punish these fair weather Democrats. How about a three strikes rule; after the third they are declared PNG and we actively work for their replacement. I would rather have a Republican in the slot so they can take the rap rather than these P____ Whipped B___S___ “Democrats”
If the voters don’t force consequences on them they will keep on being tools.
Thanks, everyone, for your support in this dark time. Many good ideas. I like the Culpepper Minutemen flag better, though. Sick of being “tread on” by my own goddamned party and shit on by the Rethugs. At least my rep, Baird, and senator, Cantwell (Murray had already split) voted “no;” cold comfort considering the kabuki aspect of the bill. Capitulation didn’t go down any easier the second time.
As soon as the Senate vote went down, I sent back my DSCC junk mail prepaid envelope with a transcript of the Bill Moyers’ impeachment special and a comment saying “Please read and remove head from hindquarters”. Then on the envelope, I copied the names of the Senate quislings and made a mock movie ad for “CAPITULATION — The Sequel!” with several snarky comments, then it went in my box for pickup. When I went to get my mail later on, my postal guy was reading my comments and smiling; more evidence that we are in the center — FUCK OFF, big media!
Not one dime until impeachment is back “on the table”. Can we at least unify around this simple idea?