The opening night speeches at Yearly Kos had just concluded. We’d heard a fine speech recorded earlier by Senator Durbin, welcoming us to Chicago and praising the work progressive bloggers have been doing to turn this country around. Then Howard Dean gave the keynote speech and brought the house down.
Dean let us know that he gets it, that he understands how important this amazing community is and how much it’s changing the way democracy functions in America. He knows how this movement is transforming the Democratic Party and bringing America back from the abyss Bush created and towards which he is still driving us. Dean won the crowd early on, and as they listened many had tears in their eyes, lamenting again what the media did to a man who so clearly saw in 2003-04 where the country was going and tried to warn us. But he was not one of the beltway’s privileged and they got him. But the man was not done.
Dean pulled it all together — the trampling of the Constitution, the disgracing of the Justice Department, the neglect of government’s legitimate and necessary functions, the need for checks and balances, the need to restore our civil liberties and to stop commuting the sentences of people who lie and obtruct justice and betray patriots, the need to end the occupation of Iraq — yes, it was all there in the same terms we use to describe what we see and how we feel about what has happened to our country. But then he let us know, as few other politicians can, that he undertands what we, the blogging community, are about.
He told us about a new DNC project to help local officials defend everyone’s right to vote and how all the voting trends of young people are trending our way and how important it was to reach out to America’s youth, because the political choices they make now can last a lifetime, and they are choosing Democrats and accepting the just vision of American that we worked for 30 and 40 years ago. But he was not just asking for our help or our money, but instead acknowledging that democracy in American is now a two way conversation. Not just politicians speaking to voters and asking for their votes, but citizens using the internet to talk to politicians, directly, personally, with an immediacy and impact that is changing the whole democratic process. We are citizens talking to their officials and candidates and expecting them to engage us in that conversation, and not just at election time, but every day in a continuing dialogue that is breathing new life and new ideas and new energy into our battered republic. Yeah, the man gets it.
And after he’d finished, and brought the house down, and many were thinking “what if . . . ” there were a few announcements, read by a YKos volunteer just before we left.
Announcement: Senator Clinton announced that she will speak to you at the candidates’ forum on Saturday but will not stay for the one-on-one interchange with attendees in the breakout sessions that follow; however, she will send one of her media aides to answer questions.
An immediate chorus of boos greeted the announcement, and as the message sunk in, you could feel the room shift, and it wasn’t towards the woman who wants to be our President.
Yesterday, Chris Dodd went on Bill O’Reilly’s show to face him down, to expose his lies and demagoguery and to send a message to the 1500 people gathered here that he knows how important the progressive blogosphere is. Whether she meant to or not, Hillary Clinton also sent a message that she doesn’t know who we are, what we’re about or what we might mean to the next administration. Dean gets it, Chris Dodd gets it. Does Hillary? You have to wonder.
UPDATE: RawStory now reporting that Senator Clinton will attend the YKos break out sessions. Good for Hillary. Good for the progressive blogs/YKos.
Related posts:
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Howard Dean, Howard Dean’s Prescription for Real Healthcare Reform
- When the Women of Afghanistan Speak, Does Howard Dean Listen?
- Howard Dean: Reconciliation Will Cause Public Option to Be Available Sooner
- Howard Dean: “$1 Trillion Is NOT New Money”
- Did You Get the Memo? Howard Dean is Shrill
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
Zed?Could it be?
Go Dean. Hope that shows up on cspan eventually.
Zed! Wish I was in Chicago!
wow
OOPS. No zed. Still wish I was with the pups this week.
Hillary pulled a really dumb move there. Dissing a group of people in the grassroots isn’t at all savvy or smart. Unless she had a family emergency or something else of that nature,there’s really no excuse for this.
Even here on my laptop in TN, Dean was amazing. Inspiring. Thanks Scarecrow for this post.
anangryoldbroad @ 6
She has a family emergency all right!
anangryoldbroad @ 6
I read somewhere that the election can’t be won with out the netroots. Surely she knows better. Im glad really, for anything that holds her back.
And therein is the difference: Howard Dean wouldn’t be afraid to address kids at Bob Jones University, or the DLC. Senator Clinton, on the other hand, doesn’t dare go near her own base — the closest she came was FDL a few weeks ago.
i watched dean give his talk through the live video stream. and i agree, it was really, really good… even from hundreds of miles away. the more i see what dean does and what he says, the more i admire him.
his speech made me want to cry – and not always in a good way… the line that really hurt went something like (i wish i knew the exact words he used) – we know there is something more important than party, we put our country first.
oh, if only it was true.
Brian Lamb & caller dustup this am.
“Dean gets it, Chris Dodd gets it. Does Hillary?”
No way in hell.
Whether she meant to or not, Hillary Clinton also sent a message that she doesn’t know who we are, what we’re about or what we might mean to the next administration. Dean gets it, Chris Dodd gets it. Does Hillary? You have to wonder.
Senator Clinton Did Not Jilt Kossacks
by gina
Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 10:06:25 PM PDT
Senator Clinton’s campaign (and in fact those of every candidate participating) have been incredibly flexible and helpful in putting together this Presidential forum. Saturday is going to be an amazing day.
In the weeks leading up to the convention we worked with her campaign and the campaigns of EVERY candidate participating to accommodate a diverse array of scheduling and other concerns.
Yearlykos wholeheartedly disagrees with the sentiments expressed in the diary entitled “Effing Hillary Jilts Kossacks.” There was a miscommunication between Yearlykos and Senator Clinton’s Campaign, which was never under the impression that Senator Clinton would be attending the breakout session due to a scheduling conflict. We regret due to this miscommunication, the announcement was made so belatedly. We are ecstatic she will be attending the forum and that Anne Lewis will be representing her in the breakout session.
Anyway it’s been a great first day and the Presidential forum is going to be incredible.
Phoenix Woman @ 10
And what other Presidential candidate has come to the blogs to answer questions?
I’ll tell you just how different the internet has made politics. Last night, with my husband in our state capital working on negotiating a new contract with the State, he was IMing me. And I was watching Howard Dean and giving him play by play…and my son could hear Dean from the kitchen and came in and stood behind me, rapt, asking me, “Mom, who is that guy – is he running for president?” The cheering did not sound like 1500 hundred people; it sounded like 15,000 people. It was incredible. And during the drive in this morning, my son and I talked about Dean’s comments about having operatives go to every county election commisioner this year to figure out the best way to get everyone who wants to vote to have their vote counted. And I explained what happened in Ohio and New Mexico and Florida the last two times. And he asked me what we’re going to do this time.
He’s a kid, 20 years old. THIS is the power of the internet.
Joe Scarborough Show is excellent right now
Hotline opines that Hillary doesn’t need to win over the netroots;that she just wants us to view her as “an acceptable option”. Unfortunately, with the netroots split between Edwards and Obama, Hillary has a much better chance of winning by default.
hillary is a corporatist who thinks the iraq war was a good idea, it just wasn’t executed properly.
what else do you need to know?
solai @ 17
Is that snark?
I just watched Chris Dodd smack down Billo on his show.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/2/222159/0616
not sure it’s completely fair to blow off senator clinton because she won’t be there for the break out session (just the forum).
but, i’m not gonna argue the point… ‘cuz, imo, there are plenty of other reasons to blow her off… here’s my #1 reason.
If Howard Dean “gets it”, why is impeachment still “off the table”?
Huh? It has been at least a few hours since Yearlykos organizers admitted that the mistake was on their part. Hillary had never signed on for the breakout session and had been telling YK that for a week at least.
twolf1 @ 19
First, let me apologize for going OT. Thought I was still on Late Nite. But, no, it wasn’t snark. Time magazine has a piece on NOLA and how the same mistakes are being made again irt the levees. No safer today then when Katrina hit. Tied in with all the infrastructure problems in US.
Sleepy (yawn) good morning here from sweltering New England. Hillary answers to her campaign contributors. No further explanation necessary. Until the people get to the voting booths and change the status quo, We the People will continue to be further oppressed by those who answer to corporations and special interests. Vote the bums out – from whatever perch they have relative to the aisle, and vote in representatives who do the will of the people. Simple. Vote.
LizDexic @ 23
Because Dean is not in Congress.
What Hillary gets is what is good for the Clintons. Talk about a looming disaster, a re-run of the Clintons is it. Too bad that Dean does not get that.
we must never forget how the MSM trashed and ridiculed Howard Dean in 2004. Howard Dean is a great American. he has done more for the progressive spirit in this country than anybody else.
Howard Dean’s vision and hard work and leadership gave the Democratic Party the opportunity to bring our country back from the abyss. He had the right idea and the courage and determination to bring about it’s realization. it’s up to us to follow his example.
LizDexic @ 23
Dean gets it! Pelosi doesn’t! If her office were to receive 10,000 emails, telephone calls, faxes a day it might begin to sink in.
Hooray for Schumer-and the DCC! (Not). Paul Krugman has an op-ed in the NYT today chastizing Schumer for inserting special deals for hedgefund people. Same old, same old – taking more of the tax resources for the rich that could be put to much better use for the country as a whole. Dems (and we) should clobber him for this, but it looks like they let him do this. :-$
Wesley Clark is to speak at YKos at 9 a.m. EDT. It’s on Ustream:
http://ustream.tv/channel/year…..ntion-2007
Bilbo @ 31
thanks! see you in the chat room.
Hillary doesn’t need to win over the netroots;that she just wants us to view her as “an acceptable option”.
And I think she’s shown us already that she knows how to do that – attack Republicans. People will forgive a lot if you show you’ll fight back against the bad guys. The netroots are not going to determine who gets the nomination, I doubt they’ll really even be a significant factor. We’ll line up behind whoever wins.
It appears that Hillary is doing her triangulation thing again. She wants to be there, but she wants to make sure her more corporate backers are not offended by her reaching out to the grass/net roots.
I think she must sense what is going on in the rising up of the people via the internets. But I think she believes that the netroots are still not enough of a unified force to be taken “seriously”… yet.
You can be sure as this movement grows and accomplishes more and more… we’ve already bested the media in the Scooter trial and they acknowledged it… politicians will take the netroots more seriously. They are still in denial and ignorant.
We need some real netroots candidates and get rid of the old white christians in power who kow tow and kabuki dance with the MIC.
power to the people!
long live the internets!
Surprised @ 23
That is sort of why I posted the message from them at #14.
Amazing guy on Young Turks this morning- a science fiction writer David Brin(?). One of the smartest people I have heard on the Democrats and issues that impact us in years. He speaks about the kleptocracy of the current administration, basically thieves and thugs out to dismantle government. And as part of this they are anti-competence, and anti-professionals, putting in place (with intention) people who are out to destroy this country’s civil service, judicial system, professors, scientists because they don’t want the laws inforced while they steal. This is also why Bush has sought to intimidate the press and the army officer corps.
selise @ 11
You are seaking, I think, to some of the ‘disappointment’ that phred expressed when he attempted to repair the heat-damage (minor, I trust) between himself and Oklahoma Kidd, last evening. I first felt that when it appeared that the Dem’s response to our young efforts in civil rights was Vietnam. Dean has long impressed me both through his words and
his courage in sharing them. Hillary has problems, not least of which is her learning curve. Always appreciate your comments and your courage.
Richmond @ 31
You are aware, I trust, that he says this was done on behalf of the state he represents (NY)since the tax in question would result in an exodus of investment money leaving NY. He (rightly) says that there are other ways to accomplish the same thing, which OTHER states could well find objectionable. Just sayin…
-MS
tatere @ 33
don’t count on my support.
I wish all that capital would literally flee and live in these off shore tax havens. They would move their asses back to NYC pretty damm quick. You offshore your money.. you lose your passport. How bout that?
We are making a difference. It is like chipping away at an iceberg with an icepick some days, but we are making a difference. Howard Dean is right. Hillary, sigh. My gut instinct is not to trust her. She has already sold us out. I hate being that cynical but there it is.
No one offers me a tax break to stay in NY state. Why not?
SaunderO @ 40
Seems fair and reasonable.
GOOD MORNING ALL!
a comment and raising an alarm for everyone to keep a look out;
there is an initiative that will parcel the electoral votes in california district by district
we will loose the presidential election if this is done
in addition, electronic voting machines WILL flip votes EVEN IF THERE IS A PAPER TRAIL
this is because most people won’t check their ballot to see if their vote was recorded correctly
in other words an audit of the voting reeipts will show the flipped result not the actual votes
dean and all democrats have to address these issues before it is too late to do anything abuot them
For those interested in streaming YK2 and saving a tiny amount of bandwidth, I embedded the video feed (minus the chat window) in a blank page here: Yearly Kos
I am using it as a pseudo stand-alone player. Just open it in it’s own browser window and resize the window to the video size.
OT: Notice that in normal Republican contexts, where “voter fraud” means “voting while black,” any discussion about preventing voter fraud violates Section 241 (Conspiracy against rights):
Note that they don’t have to DO anything. Simply talking about it is a felony.
Michael in Park Slope @ 38
In this he is principally speaking for the NYC area not upstate. And recall that now Manhattan is pretty much devoid of a Middle Class (i.e. all top and bottom) compared to 20 years ago when I was living there and the middle class was thriving. Part of this is the pushing of economic issues to favor the very wealthy at the expense of everyone else. By the way I feel the same way about those Dems in Michigan who insist on countering highest gas standards. In the end it actually hurts the bulk of people in the state because car manufacturing has left to go the way of Toyota (non-union factories in the south). In short, Schumer can insert what he wants, but the Dems should insist that it be withdrawn, and he should be roundly condemned. If he wants to be a Republican fine, but then let him get re-elected as one.
DWB – yeah, probably. thanks.
Michael in Park Slope @ 38
but dean told us yesterday that we dems always put country first. sigh.
twolf1 @ 45
Thanks – I’m tuned in-
SanderO @ 40
THe Dems should put out legislation that all companies with offshore headquarters cannot get Federal, state or local funds, including investment funds for retirement and other accounts. If they are not going to pay taxes, why should they receive financal support from various levels of our government?
selise @ 49
Yes, of course, but if keeping money in NY results in, say, more jobs for New Yorkers, is he not beholden to his constituents to see to this?
Nevertheless, I certainly agree that the constitution comes first – is Schumer’s move somehow unconstitutional?
BTW, your link at #22 above was somewhat of an eye opener for me. I was beginning to think that Hillary might be the one after all (asssuming no Gore!) but now… Well, no one said this was easy.
-MS
The fact that Hillary accepts campaign funds from Rupert Murdoch and his people tells you everything you need to know about were this woman is coming from.
Richmond at 51
Of course you are 100% correct. However, let’s not hold our collective breath. ‘Biting the hand …’ comes sadly to mind. I’m not being cynical just weary and worried. ‘Cynical’ should be reserved for those who ‘game’ the system.
Ed Deevy @ 53
Yep. I’m not a big fan of political dynasties either. We’ve had more than enough Bush and Clinton years to last,like forever.
Sure,it would be great if a woman ran and won the presidency,but please,not Hillary. She’s NOT progressive,now that word,progressive,is being co-opted and changed and watered down. NO,it’s enough. She’s not liberal either,for that matter,she’s a wealthy establishment type,just like every other Senator and most of the House. I don’t know about ya’all,but I’m sick of rich people running everything. It would be different if the wealthy actually gave a damn about the nation,but they do not.
So Hillary had notified YKos that she couldn’t be available for the post forum session. Big whoop. She will be there for the main event. That’s what really matters. A campaign has glitches and adults with an open mind can deal. She won’t win you over when you won’t give her understanding in the first place.
Michael in Park Slope @ 51
As I noted earlier it does not help New Yorkers as a whole, it helps those in or near NYC, the wealthiest NYers granted but it leaves out most every one mid and up state (many of whom have suffered considerably from the sort of support-the-rich policies this sort of Republithug-thinking action represents.
Wes Clark speaking
http://www.yearlykosconvention.org/ustream
anangryoldbroad @ 54
Ed Deevy @ 53
There’s going to be a story out today (mentioned on scarborough) that Edwards took money from News Corp. For a book?? Not clear on the details but look for another hitjob.
Michael in Park Slope @ 51
well, the constitution for sure… but i was referring to the country – the whole country and not just a few billionaire hedge fund managers.
no, not easy. and if your conscience tells you to support senator clinton for pres., then go for it. just like you, i’m trying to figure things out for myself…. and i hope you’ll understand if i won’t support clinton.
Ed Deevy @ 53
You mean as opposed to the 800K that Edwards accepted from News Corp for his book…or is that ‘different’?
This is not an issue folks. News Corp is big and they’ve all taken money from it one way or another. Let’s not start doing the circular firing squad.
Hillary is playing to her base. Follow the Money.
Nothing’s off the table, except low level engagement with the enemy.
She is having a staffer talk to you, no?
I don’t agree with this. I liked the Clinton years.
Richmond @ 57 says:
“As I noted earlier it does not help New Yorkers as a whole, it helps those in or near NYC, the wealthiest NYers granted but it leaves out most every one mid and up state (many of whom have suffered considerably from the sort of support-the-rich policies this sort of Republithug-thinking action represents.”
In the matter of job creation, keeping money in NY certainly helps people of all backgrounds. While you may be correct about the income levels of Manhattanites (mostly very high or very low (but there are SOME middle class folks, people I know)) jobs created in Manhattan go to those who commute there – like this Brooklynite who works in Manhattan!
-MS
Well, well. Looks like Ole G&S (Gutless and Spineless) Hillary is up to her usual tricks: just being Gutless and Spineless. As stated many times, I will under no circumstances vote for Ole G&S. Amongst her more cowardly moments:
1. ONLY Hillary refuses to openly condemn the Libby commutation. Instead, she plays “female coy” and ducks the question. Gutless & Spineless.
2. ONLY Hillary actively courts slimebucket Rupert Murdoch and gleefully takes his money. Gutless & Spineless.
3. ONLY Hillary keeps actively and joyfully employed at high levels in her campaign a notorious and infamous union-buster. Gutless & Spineless.
Her fleeing from the convention is but another step in her long, long trail of the coward. Gutless & Spineless: thy name is Hillary.
Ghostman
angryoldbroad @ 55
You always speak from the heart and soul of truth. More, please.
Michael in Park Slope @ 52
I have far less problems with the old-style pork-barrellers (like Murtha and Schumer) who are trying to at least help out the majority of the people in their states and CDs, than the Republican ones (like Ted Stevens) whose pork goes 95% of the time to a handful of already-hyper-rich campaign contributors.
It is time for the candidates to attack the Republicans on the conditions that allow bridges to collapse. Tim Pawlenty is a REPUBLICAN. He is in his second term. His whole administration is based on cutting taxes and crippling government. It is metaphor for the whole country and its decaying state because the Republicans have done nothing but cut taxes for the general welfare of the people so that the upper 1% gets huge tax cuts. They have deliberately starved the government. They are responsible for what happened on that bridge, what happened in New Orleans, in our schools and in all the other bridges just being held up by a song and a prayer. It is time to point out Tim Pawlenty’s party affiliation. And preceding Pawlenty was Jesse Ventura. These type of people have no business being in government. They hate government and want to see it fail. They are contemptuous of what the purpose of govt is and therefore they and all Republicans are not to be trusted with the reigns of power…EVER AGAIN!
solai @ 63
how many iraqis died due to bill clinton policies?
how many times did the usa bomb iraq on clinton’s watch? how many lies were we told about our bombing?
how many lives were ruined by nafta? were we told the truth about nafta chapter 11? imf? wto?
you ok with our current environment of media consolidation?
Hey, it’s OK for us all to disagree when discussing stuff. We just have to not be jerks about it, is all. Don’t feel that you have to stay silent here — if you’re being a jerk, the mods will let you know. Otherwise, you’re fine! Discussion is good! We can learn something from folks with whom we disagree. :-)
Good morning everyone. General Wesley Clark speaking to the group now, with the theme, “where’s America?” — a question folks around the world are asking as they watch the horrors of the Bush Administration.
solai @ 64
the clinton years were fine however he was responsible for policies that allowed bush to take office
we need the fairness doctrine back, clinton could have gotten that done
we also need to restrict ownership of media which clinton began to topple the limits on that ownership
there can be no murdochs buying up more then two media sources, that undermines the fourth estate
then there is the borrowing of our social security
that’s not theirs to borrow, that’s ours.
now tax credits are a fine strategy when they are target marketed…this is an investment but that investment must show dividends for it to be considered an investment
when we invest social security dollars into programs they must enjoy a positive return…no “tax returns” for the wealthy
so while clinton did plenty of good he was also responsible for plenty of the bad that bush is taking advantage of
Welcome to Chicago, Yearly Kosters!
Off topic . . . I live north of the city . . . in Evanston.
Early Sunday morning is a great time to tour the city via bicycle. Chicago is also a great city to experience via bicycle.
That said, I have two extra bikes and would be willing to provide a guided tour early Sunday morning to any Kos visitors who might be interested. We can tour the downtown Loop/Lakefront, go south to 31st then west to Bridgeport, Pilsen, the Canal St. Market, Taylor St. then back to the Hyatt McCormick/Convention Center. You’ll see great sites, skyline views, neighborhoods, site of the Chicago Fire, Jane Addams House, downtown buildings and sculptures in the short span of two-three hours.
Great food (and cheap) along the way too!
Contact me if youre interested. Im sure youve already discovered how proud Chicagoan are regarding our world-class city!
bigjoe@ripco.com
Sublime; selise!
Michael in Park Slope @ 65
If the hedgefund people were going to leave NYC they would have done so by now (say to Delaware or New Hampshire). There is far more keeping the thriving economic market in the city than just questions of tax breaks. This goes to the heart of why Dems need to get their heads out of their asses and begin to look at the bigger picture. (And by the way we can thank Schumer and his DCC buddies for Lieberman’s re-election). Head up the ass again. Thousands of US men and women have died and had horrible injuries as a result to say nothing of the billions lost to all of us in this corrupt and amoral war which is continuing.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/
raven @ 14
Ah, the official denial — “we didn’t mean it.”
perris @ 73
Yes, yes and yes. And remember Clinton came up to campaign for Lieberman. Same old, same old.
Wow, Scarecrow, the room didn’t shift towards Hillary? Can’t understand that, after all, in the latest DKos straw she garnered all of 9%, and I’m betting that at least half of that support didn’t go to Chicago, so that would give her, what, a 5-6% support level in the room? And gee, even tho the YKos people knew FOR A WEEK that she wasn’t going to be attending the workshops, they decided to announce it at the keynote dinner, right after the biggest netroots hero just spoke.
Yeah I can’t understand that big shift in the room. What happened, her 4 supporters walk out when the boos from the other 95% of the room started?
Selise: At least Clinton early on had the guts to undo the last of Reagan and Bush’s tax cuts — a move for which the Democrats paid by losing control of Congress the next year (hence the burned-hand skittishness of many Democrats who don’t realize that it’s not 1994 any more), but which put money in the Federal coffers, which paid down the deficit and freed up the economy to take full advantage of the dot-com boom. Real wages actually went up consistently during much of his tenure, the first time they’d done so since 1974. After Bush took over and rammed through his tax cuts for the rich, all that good work was undone.
I don’t agree with the Clintons on a lot of things, and Hillary is not my first choice for the Democratic nominee, but they’re not all bad, truly.
Toby Wollin @ 16
Thanks for that feedback — you’re right about the 1500 feeling linke 15,000, because it was in this new media.
I like rich people who realize that this country has been good to them & return the favor.
Scarecrow @ 72
I could go with an Edwards/Clark ticket.
Toby Wollin @ 16
That’s excellent, Toby. Thanks for the report!
Pheonix Woman @ 71
Learning is fun among friends and we can all benefit from more.
Yay! perris
Scarecrow @ 78
That ‘denial’ came from YKos, not the campaign, so I assume you mean that YKos is saying that they didn’t mean to announce the non-attendance at the worst possible time for the Hillary campaign, right?
Phoenix Woman @ 81
Well said, Phoenix Woman!
-MS
Phoenix Woman @ 80
agree. especially about the early tax policies.
not sure about real wages (for all quintiles), but in any event surely much, much better than the bush years. not even close. but nafta and our clinton era trade policies set the stage for the decimation of our manufacturing jobs.
and you didn’t even mention clinton’s nomination to the supreme court.
Your complaints about Pres.Clinton are justified. I stand corrected. Yet, emotionally, those years seem like a warm, fuzzy dream compared to the last 6.
A quick OT.
Apparently Valerie Wilson was such a well-known, pencil pushing nobody-nothing at the CIA that a judge has ruled in favor of the CIA in preventing her from disclosing her tenure at the CIA.
Bizarro world nation.
-GSD
solai @ 89
warm and fuzzy for me too. but then, i didn’t really wake up politically until sept 12, 2001. now i know better. and i’m trying to learn more.
ironranger @ 83
Yeah. Sure beats the oncological model of capitalism, doesn’t it?
Richmond @ 59
This quote makes it look like I support Obama,I haven’t lent my support to anyone though I do lean towards Edwards. Someone else wrote the Obama part.
As I read this morning that Hillary will not rule out use of nuclear weapons against terrorists, I thought to myself, “She’s Rudy Guliani in a dress.”
Then again, Rudy wears dresses too.
Oh never mind,lol,the toobz are making my lack of tech savvy shine today.
OT perhaps, but it is my hope to live long enough to NOT have to vote for the lesser weevil.
dratty @ 80
There are a lot more people here than kossacks — it’s the whole progressive/blogging community represented. I think most folks here are pleased that most of the candidates are coming here and are willing to listen to all. You find partisans for each candidate here, but also lots of people who understand where the polls are now and that the front runner today may well be the Democratic nominee. They’re willing to have that dialogue to get to the point where many are comfortable with that, but it has to a conversation — that was Dean’s point. I’m assume the announcement wasn’t meant as a refutation of Dean, but the perhaps unintended contrast was obvious — just reporting what I say, heard and felt.
Selise @ 89: Real Wage Data, 1964-2004.
Note the steady rise up to 1974, then the steady drop, which aside from the Clinton years continued largely unabated.
I use this data to explain to people why they’re not wrong to think that they’re being lied to by the media about the alleged “Bush boom” that booms only for those who don’t need it.
nicely said
I use “people so wealthy they will never ever spend it” but yours is better
I did pretty well during the Clinton years,alot of people did. I’m not sure that has as much to do with his presidency as alot of folks think though. At that time we weren’t yet totally feeling the effects of outsourcing,the demonizing of unions,and don’t get me started on all the promises of NAFTA,which hasn’t helped the American worker.
I think the dreaminess of the Clinton years is from the stark contrast we have now. Our government has always been sneaky and corrupt,but under W it’s just been a big old blatant F-You to everyone,these people don’t even pretend to care once they get into power.It’s like they’re daring someone to stop them. So far no one has.
On Clinton, the fact that he couldn’t keep his zipper zipped also set into action the whole right wing push to label Dems as immoral. He could have done far more for the Democratic party if he had used self constraint. I mean come on! Also what was this whole thing with Bush Sr? At a time when we really could have use his voice against the right wing thugs, he basically conveyed the idea that everything was fine, nothing to worry about. The real Dem hero in my view is Jimmy Carter. The Clintons have been too busy filling their own bank accounts.
Phoenix Woman @ 99
thanks, but i was thinking of medians (not averages) and for each quintile.
but, for all i know, that could show the same trends as the overall average… it’s just that i find medians for all quintiles more persuasive.
Ed Deevy @ 53
Was it on KO last night(?) that someone point out that the $20k from News Corp was mostly from the few Dem supporters in the Corp.
OT perhaps -
Solai and anyone else from Upstate New York (or anyone from New York State at all, really) — do you think there is any interest in a blog, like FDL, but just for New York issues?
anangryoldbroad @ 101
While it’s great that you and some others did well, those who were already downsized and outsized, as well as locked out and terminated, didn’t do so well. Many, many people have spent entire careers being downsized, laid off and scrambling for job after job – all at the whims of employers. The Clinton years weren’t uniformly rosy.
Steve-AR @ 104
I recall seeing a photo of her and Murdoch after a fund-raiser he gave. Yes?
While ANY Democrat would be an improvement over 8 years of Bush in the short run, I really feel that a Hillary Clinton presidency will be as bad, if not worse, for the country in the long run than if a Republican wins.
Look at her husband’s tenure. As some people have already touched on, while the 90’s were seemingly much better than the Bush years, a lot of the groundwork for what we’re suffering now were laid during the Clinton Administration.
NAFTA and the Telecommunications Act are two obvious examples.
Most of the “good” done by Clinton was quickly undone, but it could take more than a generation to undo the bad.
Can we really afford another Clinton Administration?
Sure, the country under Hillary would be seemingly much better than it is under Bush, but I have three young children and I worry about the world they’re going to grow up to.
A Democrat who improves a few symptoms of the problem, but only strengthen the root causes, in my opinion, is almost worse than a Republican who could possibly turn the public off of the neo-liberal economic agenda for a generation.
Of course that Republican scenario would involve a LOT of unnecessary suffering in the short term so I’d just prefer a Democrat who will not only treat the symptoms but make at least a small bit of progress at rooting out the causes of our problems.
I realize some of you disagree with me on Clinton, but I hope I’ve explained my view well because I really think I’m right on this (and I’m someone who is usually quick to admit that I could be wrong.)
N=1 @ 106
Note I didn’t say everyone did well.And that well-ness was short lived. I went from having a good job to being homeless/living in Sec 8 housing in a few short years. Alot of people I know got hit hard during that time,while I did ok. My husband and I are doing well,compared to most of America now,but we both know that could end by the end of business today. It’s why I do what I can for people who have less than I do,as I always have. It’s why I try to be a good citizen and a good neighbor,because I understand that doesn’t just help me,it helps the community as a whole. I’m not a selfish butthead,truly.
please include Kos himself with his shameful treatment of Dennis Kuchinich (with scorn worthy of any Repuke)as someone who perhaps doesn’t ‘get it.’
Ed Deevy @ 53
Hillary Clinton = Republican Lite
As of this morning Congresman Jim McGovern still not a co-sponsor of H.Res. 589.(The Inslee resolution directing the HJC to begin an impeachment inquiry of Gonzo). As of this morning Congressman Frank still the only Bay State member of the House to sign on as a co-sponsor.
All MA House members have the safest of seats. Co-sponsoring this resolution costs them nothing with their constituents. This may be the only way to chip away at the damage caused by Bushco to our Constitutional rights. What gives here?
Richmond @ 102
what however is your definition of ‘zip?’
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 110
As well as his scornful dismissal of women (bloggers) being harassed ‘on the internets.’
dratty @ 87
Yeah, I didn’t quite understand that either. Who’s knifing who here? Figuratively speaking of course.
And as for Dr. Dean – he’s ALWAYS gotten it.
anangryoldbroad @ 109
I’m terribly sorry – not enough coffee and plain stupidity on my part. I didn’t mean to come across as disagreeing with you – I wanted to amplify your point, which you did without my muddling!
Back to reading and lurking until I wake up and can write more accurately
1 Mea culpa-
Scarecrow, thank you so much for this wonderful post. I did everything in my personal power to get this man elected. It’s hard to describe the alienating, heart-break of that failure. Dean introduced me to netroots and it grand potential. I believed in him so much and, of course, I still do. So did Al Gore.
ironranger @ 12
What happened?
Are you really surprised? She’s done what her husband has always done — wavwe cheerfully to the left then throw us under the bus at the first opportunity.
She knows the White House is hers and she’s a smug arrogant bitch.
The Big Mistake of the Kossacks is believing that change will come from the Democrats.
It won’t.
The whole thing is a microcosm of Senator Clinton’s approach to being a Democrat:
I’ll be there, but I won’t be there after I’m there.
JF @ 27
Thank you. I see cooler, less snarky fingers got here first. ;)
Chris Dodd is known as being pretty tough. Billo Falafel picked the wrong fight. Heh!
selise @ 70
And then Bill gave us the China Trade Agreement. We have been Walmartized and american industry shipped to China. Small town America has been destroyed and Americans are no longer US Citizens rather US Consumers. Thanks to Clinton for opening the doors to destroying the middle class. We are now inundated with low paying jobs for US citizens and millions of illegal immigrants due to the destruction of their economy thru NAFTA. And everything ‘made in china’ crapola.
And how about WACO & Davidians (killing of US citizens, women & children), Oklahoma bombing, Somalia, USS Cole bombing, WTC bombing, etc…
Telecom Reform Act: eliminated major ownership restrictions for radio and television groups. And due to this miserable piece of legislation we have Fox and Rupert Murdoch owning WSJ and DOW.
And extraordinary rendition,got approval for the first time in the USA from the Clinton administration, some of whom dub the procedure “torture by proxy. 1994 Omnibus Crime Bill expanded the application of the federal death penalty.
Bill was the catalyst for where we are now. And yes, I’m as guilty as many others in wearing rose colored glasses during the Clinton years. We don’t need another 8 years under the Clinton or Bush dynasties. We need new untainted blood
Toby Wollin @ 105
I don’t know. Personally, I’m so involved in national politics that I can barely keep up.
I will say this though, the powerline issue has people incensed. That alone may make such a site popular. It’s very difficult to find out the latest on that issue.
If I have to choose between Hillary and a Republican I will reluctantly vote for her. But I am hoping that she doesn’t get the Democratic nomination. As far as I’m concerned she is a female version of Joe LIEberman.
Howard Dean for President!
(((hugs to N=1)))
I took it the wrong way,I owe you the apology.
snowbird42 @ 21
And Bush’s man at the FCC categorically states that the Fairness Doctrine will not be reinstated.
If it was brought back, O’Reilly would be out of work in a day and FOX would be showing the Little Rascals again.
Well, I won’t vote for Hillary. I will write someone in. We need a leader, not an eliteist in the pockets of big business.
John W @ 126
Hillary IS a republican
cynic @ 130
I am really disturbed by reports of Rupert Murdoch, Kenneth Starr’s law firm et al giving to her campaign. It’s actually quite alarming. It became apparent that HoJoe was not a “free man”, when Mel Sembler became his fundraiser, and the Republikans filled his warchest. Not to mention the special interests. One might say that Hillary has been bought.
howard dean is the finest national politician we have in american today, bar none.
he did not just become that recently, he was that leader in 2004.
he has the Passion and the courage and the desire to make government work for people – something he had lots of practice with as a govenor.
i hope his day as president will come.
but in the meantime, he is not waiting around sulking about his mistreatment by an adolescent media in 2004. he hs devoted himself to putting together a democratic party organization, state by state, that can compete for the next several decades.
the guy IS,
the guy LIVES,
leadership
in spades.
maybe she does get it… the way the two party duopoly is structured, she can give the finger to the netroots, and promise the Lobby-on-trial-for-espionage that she will nuke Iran, and if she gets the nomination she knows the netroots will fall in line and support her no matter what.
I hope Bloomberg runs as an independent and she finishes 3rd.
(D) Party Pragmatists, Hillary is Rove’s dream candidate.
Anytime Hillary hears about the roots movement, she thinks it’s time to make an appointment with her hair salon.
selise @ 22
Great link and that makes reason number two why I won’t vote for her…number one is her running cover for Entergy’s Indian Point nuclear power plant in Westchester, NY about 17 miles as the crow flies from where I live.
selise @ 40
or mine
james @ 136
wow. i don’t know anything about your #1 reason – looks like i have some research to do.
Edwards/Dean, 08?
Hillary never ‘got it’, imo. She was never on my radar screen in terms of a candidate.
nice to hear!
lets multiply that by a million!
Late but,
Hillary is afraid of communicating to Americans. She is ‘conservative’ in the fact that she likes politics how it used to be back in the 90’s, 80’s and before. A ONE-WAY communication.
So, Dean sees the way politics IS changing and is planning for it. While Hillary wants the politics to stay, and is fighting against the changes. That sounds pretty conservative to me!
Does Hillary get it? Maybe so, maybe not. But getting it and identifying with it are miles apart. Hillary remains a “New Democrat”, which is now becoming an old term for a movement well past its “best purchased by” date.
I don’t see why anyone in the left-0-sphere would expect Hillary to become a change-agent in the Democratic Party. That is just not who, or where, she is.
This is not to say she would not make a good president. I’m one who believes that each and every member of the Democratic field would be a better president than any over on the other side.
Clinton gave us NAFTA and WACO. WACO was not right. I know some people who were there. He set the stage for Bush. Clinton is way too chummy with Bush1.
Hillary seems to be in the lead and KOS is being pictured negatively by Repugs. She may think that by dissing the YKOS people that she can show she isn’t “one of us” and that will somehow be favorable to her.
Personally, I really do hope she goes down in flames. Edwards is so far the better candidate it’s amazing that Hillary could be the leader. (and i for one am sick of dynastic presidencies)
selise @ 70
how many buildings were bombed in belgrade by clinton and bridges needlessly destroyed and people needlessly killed?
how much time was wasted because of the lewinsky idiocy
how much beneficial legislation was passed during the Clinton years
how much tax reform was there during the Clinton years
who made money during the Clinton years?
what the nature of regulation of IPO internet crazies?
Who appointed Tenet?
Who appointed Freeh?
Who appointed Berger?
Who did nothing about bin laden?
N=1
How are you doing? How are your precious little house lions?
Scarecrow
Not only did Dean pull it together and show that he “gets it” –
Scarecrow, this is one kicka$$ post and your writing is spot on.
Brava!
I wish I could have gone to YK, maybe next year it will be closer to Calif.
Its so exciting to be part of the process that is changing the power of the people or should I say,flexing the muscle of the people.
Lets see the republicans try to steal that ! They can’t, because they’re about smoke and mirrors and deception;a bad way to get followers.
nice to see blogads on FDL ! way to go Jane.
I love this place and love the girl power behind it and guys too….TREX, Pach,TeddySF heck I love everyone here……
solai @ 17
Hey Selise, did you mean the piece on ‘Katrina: Natural or Manmade Disaster?’ I agree; it’s very good.
I’ve spend untold hours in meetings watching knowledgeable engineers give their best advice, which was then treated like absolute sh*t by a group of electeds. I saw this happen year, after year, after year — civil engineers, software engineers, and electrical engineers, all treated like dirt. Thanks for the recommendation about this item. It’s a ‘must see’.
As for the Kos event: Dean, Edwards, Dodd, and Richardson get it. Hillary is catching on — thanks to the Kos crowd. Hillary’s change of plans so she can stay for the entire event ought to generate an O’Reilly melt down — that should be a hoot. Mwhahahaha ;-))))
JEP @ 139
WOW! From your fingertips to Elizabeth’s Ears!
:)
I like this!
This comment is for most named above: Your worst nightmare has arrived. Hillary Clinton will participate in the Q&A session on Sunday morning after all. Her schedule has been reworked and she wants to move the dialogue along with the blogging community. Now, no crying and gnashing of teeth. A few considerate questioners are probably too much to ask for. Hillary never slighted YKos. Anti-Hillary folks have every right to their own choice. Hillary wants to be responsive to you all.
Jo-Ann @ 153
Gee thanks, sounds like same old, same old. If you do not like her vote on Iraq after she never even bothered to read the NIE, you can go elsewhere and find a candidate. If Hillary wants to be responsive as you put it, so be it. I wish Hillary had been a little more responsive when it came time to read the NIE way back when.
RockPaperScizzors @ 131
Funny. Tonight on the Charlie Rose show his guest Robert “Prince of Darkness” “Plame outter” Novak called George W. Bush a Liberal.
Bizarre, Alice in Wonderland, kinda times we live in.