(Photo via Hillbilly Report.)
The House Government Oversight Committee has a hearing scheduled for 10:00 am ET on the Tillman death and the odd habit of the Pentagon to leak out bits and pieces of facts along with wholly false blather. Should be an interesting morning, to say the least.
RawStory reports that former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld may have changed his mind, and may appear at the hearing after all. And AP has a story on the latest finger-pointing in the saga — at a three star general who has now been censured.
If you haven’t already read this piece from Pat Tillman’s brother, you really should. I am stuck at the airport on the way to Chicago, and the WiFi here is intermittent — so if folks are watching the hearing, pick a point person in the comments to liveblog a bit. And then everyone else please hold back from commenting too much or you’ll crash the site. (Please be kind to the moderators and don’t do that. Thanks!)
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thanks for the new thread Redd.
Well…I guess I’m here, where is everybody?
If Rummy shows, his famous lines…
“WHO NEW”….We don’t know the unknowns, if we know!
Rummy is there
Waxman “we all appreciate that soldiers were defending this country and our freedom” This is more Horseshit. I am so tired of this “our soldiers died for freedom” Remember Waxman Iraq never attacked us American soldiers were sent to Iraq based on a “pack of lies”. And they have died, been injured and humiliated based on a “pack of Lies”
Our Freedom = our access to oil. The truth is that millions of Iraqi people have been turned into refugees, 1 million are dead who knows how many are injured due to our need to access.
When will we face up to the truth that these soldiers have died based on a “pack of lies”
The U.S. and Israel’s desires for regime change and “Securing the Realm” are crimes against humanity
Another baseless Executive Privilege claim. How can they claim that the President has nothing to do with something, and then claim EP? Somebody sue them!
Late starting but here we go!
Yup, there he is, Rummy the man most responsible for the miscarriage of this war. I sure hope they aren’t very nice to him.
Raw story says Rumsfeld will show.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0731.html
I can’t stand when they use the term “friendly fire”
The burning question: How will their collective memories be functioning today? Should we perhaps pitch in to FedEx them some Ginkgo Biloba?
Some of Rummys quotes.
The end,
Febuary 8 DEPT IF DEFENSE brirfing in munich
how does it end?
It ends,
That’s all.
Wow, what an ending…
Whats going on with the sound?
TILLMAN! Rumsfeild is a ringwrath. Pure unadulterated evil.
Who killed Pat Tillman…Justin Raimando
http://anti-war.com/justin/?articleid=11367
Waxman tieing Tillman death with Abu Garib as per Tillman’s brother. Meaning they need to lie about Tillman to take away interest in Abu Garib
Quick thanks to all helping to live blog this hearing. Now I will shut up & listen.
Dang! I can’t get either the C-Span 3 or Waxman feed. Frickin’ MS Media Non-Player…
Helen…
Wow, I learned something I did not know that. I am having bad sound and waxman keeps freezing on my computer.
Kevin Tillman my brothers death “appeared to be an opportunity” for the military
Waxman – we still do not know who tied Tillman’s death to enemy fire. Even tho everyone on the ground knew it was friendly fire. We need to know whatthe WH knew.
Tillman is a national hero. Makes sense that WH would be paying attention. What does not make sense that there are no emails from WH about why/how he died.
Waxman is offering this scenario up – Tillman was killed when Falluja was going to hell in a handbasket, when Abu Graib was being revealed. The politicos freaked and created the Tillman myth to keep more bad news from the public.
Phoenix W. I had to refresh and player then worked just fine Cspan 3
How many times will Rummy say, “Who the hell is Pat Tillman again?”. Spit.
It should be an intereting hearing for sure.
Moring Diane..phoenix…Helen and all who are blogging.
One General – Tessinger (?) is evading US Marshalls who are seeking to serve him with a subpoena.
Waxman: Kessinger, Abbazaid and Brown all got the friendly fire report. Kessinger refused to show. We gave him a subpoena. Marshalls can’t find him to force him to come here. Abbazaid is here Brown is here.
Helen, emails might be under a code name or on the RNC server
Truth being spoken in a room of congress gives me chills! Go Kevin
Thanks to anyone who blogs the hearings. I cannot listen live this a.m. but appreciate updates greatly…
what!!! kessinger a no show? subpoena…cant find him…??? Intresting show
Holy Shite! Lt. General Kensinger told Congress he would not respond to subpoena and would actively evade service – and U.S. Marshalls have been unable to locate him for service.
Dayum!
Arrest that son of a bitch!
Kessinger = Kensinger. My bad
is the tillman family (mother, brother) in the hearing audience?
Most newspapers and other MSM yesterday were spreading the Clusterfuck joy that the casualty levels in Iraq were at the lowest point in months at 74 killed. Trouble is- the actual casualty number is at least 87. Clusterfuck just held a few back, did his happy dance, and then released the balance after the month was over. The insightful media all bought it hook line and sinker..
“How was journalism school?”
“Well it wasn’t much work- the worst part is when they stick that straw in yer ear and suck out yer brain”.
Tom Davis up -trying to put some makeup on this GOP-created pig…
Did Kessinger go out with cheney last night? lol
I hope Kevin Tillman runs for office some day!
Think we’ll see a general say “Rummy told us ta do it?”
In the past 6 years, we have seen genuine American heroism:
The actions of the United 93 passengers
The volunteering for service of Pat Tillman
The outspokeness of Joe and Valerie Wilson.
Over that same time, there has been a tide of posturing, phony patriotism, and (by the Bushies) rampant betrayal of American values of truth and justice.
Pat, if you help to bring any of these bastards down, your sacrifice will be honored.
Davis: No evidence that anyone in the chain of command lied on purpose. Resulted from well-intentioned people waiting for investigation to be done. But that’s not in the regs. Gross mishandling.
Code PINK will not be able to hold up signs waxman said
Waxman swearing them in.
Waxman warning audience to not hold up signs lest he have to excuse them from the hearing – now swearing in witnesses. Starting with Rummy.
Rumsfeld making his opening statement.
Rumsfeld: You’ve requested that we speak of our knowledge of Tillman’s death. Thank you to all who serve. Circumstances in handling his death only added to family’s death.
SOP – Take the Oath, then lie, lie, lie.
Rummy apologizes on behalf of himself, DoD to the Tillmans, the American people….
Explaining how he couldn’t have possibly been involved in the myth, as he had written a memo ordering DoD to accurately report casualties.
Rummy seems a bit nervous to me.
Rumsfeld: Mr. Chair you asked us to tell you how we found out about Tillman’s death. I do not recall when I heard that his death was fratricide. I think it was on or about May 20th. The April 29 report I did not see.
anyone want to bet on how many “I don’t recall’s”
My guess a least forty(40)
And i just heard the first one!
Kevin Tillmans honest statement will go down in history as one of the most powerful ever!
Rummy is up. I know nothing. It wasn’t me.
Rummy’s best recollection is that he doesn’t recall . . .
Myers: Apologize/Condolences to family.
Rummy done – short statement. Gen. Myers up – ditto condolences. Gen. Abizaid up – ditto.
Abizaid: Timely information did not happen for Tillman’s family.
Brown: Condolences. My son-in-law was wounded also by friendly fire.
‘One General – Tessinger (?) is evading US Marshalls who are seeking to serve him with a subpoena.’
Why don’t generals support the troops?
Good news is- we have investigations
Bad news is- everyone lies with impunity cause it pleases the Clusterfucker ta have em lie.
I hope Hank brings out the three tightly-grouped shots to the forehead.
So far the witnesses are simply playing the “somebody fucked up” card.
Just in case anyone breaks the law:
Gonzo won’t prosecute em- and in the odd chance that they ARE prosecuted- Clusterfuck pardons em..Nice racket.
Sparkle Plenty @ 51
he could recall if it were recallable…
Waman: What did the sr. military knw about death when did they know it and what did they do. P4 memo sent by Gen McCrystal. Sent to Abizaid, Brown and Kensinger. The purpose was to have one or more of these generals to warn Bush and upper military magt that Tillman had been killed by his own unit. P4 said “I felt that it is essential that you recieve this info as soon as we detect itto preclude our leaders…” to say anything wrong.
Rwcole…Thats the whole scam! from the top to the bottom of this administration!
rwcole @ 58
Just in case anyone breaks the law:
Just in case? rw, you’re such an optimist.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Pat Tillman was talking openly about joining John Kerry’s campaign upon returning to the States…before he was fragged by his buddies?
rummy, did or will he have an apafany?
Wax. “Killed by his own unit” “Killed by American forces”
It seems as though he has dropped the “friendly fire” mantra…. and about time
I think people have discussed this elsewhere, but Rumsfeld is the king of plausible deniability.
He structured the information flow so that he could be made aware of the content of damning memos, but could plausibly deny having read them or being aware of them. It is a pattern that happens over and over again with Rumsfeld and the committee should not let it stand.
Every time Rumsfeld says he became aware of a memo or read a memo as of a certain date, he should be asked whether he was aware of any of the substance of the memo on any earlier date.
Waxman to Abizaid: P4 cc’d to Brown and Kensinger. Abizaid was “to” person. Abizaid says he received it on the 6th of May.
going back to the no show…Have marshalls found him or are they REALLY looking?
I wonder how many ‘unknown unknowns’ Rummy will come up with? Huh. I could get a headache by the end of this hearing.
And then there’s the “known unknowns” that always creep in! Right, Rummy?
Folks,
Please be nice to the thread and the Mods and keep the one-liners down. The powers are not around to save us from ourselves as most are traveling so please play nice.
I found a book with every quote that rummy says,… it is a great book
Abizaid: On the 6th I called Chairman of JCofS (Myers). I told him that it may be Friendly fire. My impression was that Chairman knew about it.
Waxman: 3 weeks before memorial service.
Will anyone on the committee ask if it was possible that Corporal Tillman was shot because of his outspoken political views or his reported lack of religousity?
Waxman to Abizaid: What did you say to JCofS?
Abizaid: Likely fratricide. We willknow when report is finalized. JCofS seemed to know.
Waxman: Did you speak to Rummy?
Abizaid: Not until I was back in DC May 18-20.
Waxman:P4 sadi Bush should be told. What did you do?
Abizaid: Told Chairman – never told Bush
here we go with the I cant recalls!
Does anyone have any background on the soldier that pulled the trigger?
I had no idea that Jessica Lynch was so terribly injured.
Elliott @ 59
Shorter Rummy:
There are things I recall I recall, things I don’t recall I recall, and things I don’t recall I don’t recall….
Waxman to Myers: Abizaid said he told you, yes?
Myers: Dont recall but possibly. I knew at end of April that there was possibly fratricide.
Wax: Who told you?
Myers: I don’t know. Possibly from special forces folks, but I can’t remember.
bluetoe…
Good question, where is he/she and have she/he spoke publicly.
Helen- you’re doing a great job on the play-by-play! Point (wo)man for certain.
Not commenting further to give servers a break.
Back to radio silence…
Waxman: Was it widely known within DOD?
Myers: I can’t recall.
Davis (R) Ca now asking questions. He looks like Opie that just woke up from a deep sleep. Droopy eyes, tussled hair.
It’s not enough to ask the generals (or any other witness in any other hearing) if they ever spoke directly to the president — they need to routinely ask if they spoke to the president and/or the VP.
Helen @ 83
I deny that as plausible
dakine01 @ 71
there’s always gabbly. now where’s that dang link?
These guys may end up collectively break Gonzo’s “I don’t recall” record. I’ve gotta remember not to throw my laptop at the wall! I’m counting 19 “IDR’s” so far.
Rummy, I dont recall..thats a lie! He is one control freak with information from the bottom to the top
Davis: When you received this info what are you required to do?
Myers: No regs, but normally I would tell secy of army. I don’t recall if I did that. But if army knew they should have told family.
Davis to Rummy: How and when did you learn where and when he was killed?
Rumm: I do not recall Maybe internal, maythe thru the press.
Davis: What did you do?
Rummy: Wrote a letter to family
Davis: Did you know about Pres Bush’s speech.
Rummy: No recollection of discsuuing with the WH
Myers: I do not recall speaking with WH about this
Twisted, are you around? I can’t keep up if it’s shots for “I don’t recall.” I only bought one case of tequila.
24 IDR’s. Now something new _ “I don’t understand the question…”
Davis: You knew about media coverage – did you instruct your staff to affect the coverage?
Rummy: No
Rummys quoting the military law, when does the law mean or meant anything to this bunch?
Whos counting the Idont remembers and dont recalls! like to see the figures when this is over! and recalections.
Rummy and Myers are putting up the WH firewall again. “I don’t recall” is invoked any time there is a request for a substantive answer.
Rummy is not as good a fibber as gonzo.
Davis: Do you remember when you learned tat this was a poss fratricide?
Rummy: Nope. I think on or after May 20th. (was there when someone else was told).
Davis: Did you think it importantto tell anyone else?
Rummy I don’t recall who told me, but there were investigations underway, so I did nothing.
Why does Rummy have to refer to his notes to say I don’t recall??
Davis: When did you hear about the p4 memo?
Rummy: I don’t remember when or from whom I learned about the P4.
30 – 31 IDR’s – 32… 33
Once again they had time to go over thier testimony knowing this hearing was comming .
And its “I DON”T RECALL”.
and the biggest is they don’t recall telling the WHITE HOUSE.
I just wish they would stop referring to this as “friendly fire”. More twisted language to soften the brutal reality
Snow flakes? what is that
Davis to rum You sent a “snowflake” he then went on to say “memo” is a memo a snowflake? inquiring minds
1oldlady @ 103
a memo from Rumsfeld is a snowflake
I think Rummy comes off MUCH better than Gonzo. Even his “not remembering” manages to sound more plausible.
WTF with the General no showing…what’s going to come of that?
Ed*ard Teller @ 101
thank’s its going well over my bet of forty .
1oldlady @ 103
Memos that Rummy dashed off in great numbers and floated them down on all & sundry. Recipients initially reacted by slaving away to answer them, but soon found out that Rummy never followed up, after which most recipients ignored them.
hum…how many snowflakes are out there? And since snowflakes come in different shapes, the metaphor is interesting.
eCAHNomics @ 109
Rummy’s snowflakes
Waxy needs to include the three bullets in the head to put it in the record. The public needs to know about the three accurate kill shots. I assume that fratricide can be accidental. Fragging (a more slang-sounding term) denotes intentional murder.
These elements should be included and clarified for the record by Waxman.
hackworth @ 112
I don’t see this hearing going anywhere!
snowflakes melt with no trace
While I understand reasons for joining the military can be personal. I do wonder what Kevin and Pat’s reasons were for joining the military and why Kevin is unwilling to share them?
Slightly off topic, but WAY IMPORTANT,
Huffpo reports that the NSA Director CONFIRMS that the TSP is but one of several surveillance programs being utilized by the Bush administration.
I have e-mailed my congresswoman, Yvette Clarke (D-NY) the following:
My Dear Ms. Clarke:
I am a reasonable person, as well as your constituent.
The reasonable part of me is being tested. Having read over the last few years about the Terrorist Surveillence Program (TSP) I was fairly incensed. My country does not need to resort to such methods, infringing as they do upon our civil rights. I now read that the TSP is but one of several such programs being employed by the Bush administration. How dare they!
At this point, the constitutent part of me is now outraged. I respectfully request that you use all power at your disposal to seek the immediate impeachment of President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. No less than our very democracy is at stake.
Please reply at your earliest convenience to let me know that you will consider my request.
Sincerely,
Michael Saldana
I urge all FDLers to write or e-mail their congressmen/women similarly.
-MS
Didn’t Rummy say that he felt the Army should handle it, but his “snowflake” said the opposite?
Did I miss something?
If it was suspected that it was friendly fire, WHY did they PROMOTE Tillman’s death as a hero killed by enemny fire?
Carolyn Maloney asking why, if they knew there was a possibility of FF death, they kept mum about this possibility.
Meyers: We wanted to be accurate.
Maloney: The family would have wanted to know the truth. In this country we hear ALOT of possibilities. You sat on your hands.
My question is rhetorical btw.
Pat’s reason was because of the original attacks that occurred on Sept 11, 2001. he wanted to serve his country because of the event
Ed*ard Teller @ 113
I am afraid you are correct. This is all too scripted and they have found (well actually he is the missing one) the fall guy already in Kessinger.
Ye gods…Myer has just saiid it is not his responsibility…. The buck stops somewhere else
No one in this administration can recall anything – wtf?
Maolney to Myers: May 3rd was mem svc. Tillman received silver star. At that time he died from hostile fire. You knew he died friendly fire and you knew for a month. Why didn’t you tell the family the truth?
Myers: I did not know it was FF. I was informed tat it was possibly FF. Notifying the family is up to army. Many regrets that the family was not told.
Maloney to Myers: But you knew that it was possible. The family would have wanted to know the truth even if only a possibility.
Myers: I regret that the army did the wrong thing. Not my job.
Meyers saying the Army should have told. Not the responsibilty of the Joint Chief of Staff.
Maloney saying she’s asking for what should have been right and fair.
whats going on
Warning! Cranky mod coming on duty. One-liners will be zapped…
Everyone, heads-up. Please keep comments on point. Save the one-liners and off topics for after liveblogging. Save this thread for clarifications and updates of testimony.
Your mod team thanks you.
Is Waxman helping this hearing go nowhere?
May I just go ahead and write tomorrow’s headline re this hearing?
“Rumsfeld, Generals say that Some Other Dude Fucked Up.”
m: to Rumsfield: When you heard about T’s death, was it a blow to you?
R: It’s always a blow.
Maloney to Rummy: You sent a letter to Tillman in 2002 saying thank you for leaving football to serve your country. Thank you. When corp Tilman was killed was ita blow to you?
Rummy: Clearly it’s always a heartbreaking thing.
Ah the Issa snake . …
Warning! Cranky mod coming on duty. One-liners will be zapped…
Everyone, heads-up. Please keep comments on point. Save the one-liners and off topics for after liveblogging. Save this thread for clarifications and updates of testimony.
Your mod team thanks you.
Darrell Issa asking questions.
Oh, he joins everyone with their concern.
OMG he just said Heartburn, not regret. I think he meant Heartache.
Issa to Myers: You were not in the operational command?
Myers: Nope
Issa: You just make policy? We should not look at you as in the chain of command.
Myers: True
is it my imagination, or does it seem that most of the represenatives on the oversight committee have, so far, been using their time to try for a sound bite rather than to trying to uncover the truth?
I can’t believe this weasel became Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff!! I think his only purpose was to get his niece a high paying job for which she was not qualified. More “I can’r recalls.” No wonder this war we should not be in was waged and so poorly mis-managed. Now the Republican is trying to defend him. Total bullshit.
a good attorney will start slow with questions that seem to go no where, but out of the blue they start to map and frame questions that can through some off guard that raises the tension and people say things they did not want to say!
The fix is in, Kensinger is the fall guy as far as the witnesses are concerned (and the Rs like Issa as well)
DI: the Army has a policy, during investigation…if there is a question of FF…
what’s the timeline to notify the family.
The family should be notified within 30 days.
Issa: Let’s look at all the things that have happened since then. Did a 3 star general loose a star for lying?
Rummy: No, it still being reviewed.
Issa: Is the policy that the family should be notified if maybe fratricide
Rummy: I don’t know!!!
1oldlady @ 136
I keep hoping that’s gonna happen here, but…
dakine01 @ 137
He can’t hide forever.
Issa. I have the mute button on! He happens to be on every subcommittee it is a fart in the wind when he talks…he is a jerk! I know, I live in California and what he did with the Gov. Davis thing is appalling.
Warning! Cranky mod coming on duty. One-liners will be zapped…
Everyone, heads-up. Please keep comments on point. Save the one-liners and off topics for after liveblogging. Save this thread for clarifications and updates of testimony.
Your mod team thanks you.
WElllll, since Tillman was NOT a fucking Marine, what’s the point here, Darrell?
Helen @ 130
What is the purpose of that stupid, emotionally-loaded question? The answer is inconsequential and totally meaningless.
dakine01 @ 71
Thanks for thinking of the servers and the mods. We really do need to keep the one liners down to a minimum.
Helen…you rock!
Issa saying Army and Marines have different policies…for notification…saying they should have the same policies.
This really isn’t getting to the issue of why we really didn’t get the truth about Tillman’s death.
Issa is misdirecting this investigation, imo.
His points may be well taken, but that should be a separate study.
hackworth @ 127
I’m not willing to go that far. I’d like to know why the Dr. who performed the suppressed autopsy and those involved in the suppression of it – and the denial of the Dr’s request for a CID investigation- aren’t sitting there on the bench.
wordsmith…
See Darrell is just a smelly fart
{released from Crank Mod freezer….
just sayin’….)
Whew! Mr. Cummings –
….. ah, the chart! OOOo another chart!
[released from Cranky Mod freezer…
just sayin’….]
Cummings up. Putting up charts. Who knew what, when.
30 people knew, including high-ranking.
Cummings asking pertanent questions.
ASking Rumsfield if so many people knew, how is it possible that you didn’t.
Rumsfield dancing. So many people. So many investigations. It’s not possible to know everything.
Cummings saying but Tillman was a hero.
Cummings to Rummy: How is it that you did not know before May 20th about Friendly Fire? At our last hearing we figured out that at least 9 officials knew. At the end of May at least 30 people knew including some of the highest military people. On person knew from a social setting. How did you not know?
Rummy: There are 3 million people in the dept. There are so many things going on. Itis not possible for someone to know everything that was going on.
The Tillman’s are after a full on investigation right? What is the problem? Full on investigation!
Do you think that the TIllman’s received the truth and do you believe there was a cover-up?
nomolos @ 122
The next guy up the chain is evidently one Stanley McChrystal, who, according to yesterday’s coverage (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20056399/), “escaped any blame”. According to the article, “McChrystal is head of the military’s Joint Special Operations Command. He oversees the military’s most sensitive counterterrorism operations.”
McCrystal, according to an earlier profile of him, is a “black ops spec*al*st”. He’s also, according to these wankers, a “Jedi Knight”: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13…../newsweek/
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
I have a question. Why do they call this a fratricide? Doesn’t that mean brother killing brother?
Cummings quoting Rummy: You said that any errors are much unfortunate. The Tillmans were owed the truth.
Cummings: Do yo think there was a cover-up by DOD?
Rummy: There are no facts to confirm the belief that we knew. Errors were made. No evidence of a cover-up. I know nothing.
Helen says BWA HA HA HA HA
Ooooh. Rummy: No evidence of a coverup. Someone pull a Rummy on him & point out that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Gross. Rumsfeld is going on about “grieving mother” with “no facts.” He means to imply Pat Tillman’s mother is an hysterical female, I suppose.
Men of REAL integrity would NOT lie or cover up like this. Gimme a break.
C: Is there a difference between an error and a lie or cover-up.
R: There is no reason to believe there was a cover up. Enormous integrity.
Waxman: Since the inf was distorted. Family wasn’t informed. and other problems. Do any of you think there was a cover-up.
Lindy @ 154
I believe that military boys think of each other as brothers,
Lindy @ 154
Brothers in arms….
Lindy @ 154
right, brother soldier killing a brother soldier, rather than an enemy soldier
Myers: No cover-up
ABuzad: No cover-up
Mica up.
Waxman: O’Neals statement was re-written. Was that a cover-up?
Myers: Never any attempt to cover up. We never even discussed this. We were too busy.
Abizaid: No. People tried to do the right thing and the right thing did not happen.
Sorry about the one-liner.
I am so glad the Weasel Rumsfeld etal are gone. What a piece of lying crap he is!
A control freak who says he knows nothing.
Ah. Thanks.
Elliott @ 161
Much better than “friendly fire”
Elliott @ 162
In other words it could cover accidental “friendly fire” as well, I think. Not neccessarily homicide.
all witnesses claiming no coverup
reminds me of the tobacco executives in front of Congress, they couldn’t believe nicotine is addictive
Dems always get right into the real questions.
Reps blah blah blahing. Mica talking about his past. Are they completely incapable of asking relevant questions?
Some oversight here please?
Rumsfeld finds Mrs Tillman to be gracious that she has said she has no facts or paper to justify her opinion that Rumsfeld knew of Pat Tillman’s death immediately and that it was probably friendly fire.
Rumsfeld says that he knows of no facts or paper that would indicate that Rumsfeld knew of friendly fire.
Rumsfeld says that he knows of no one else who knew that there was paper or facts proving that Rumsfeld knew.
That pretty much covers Rumsfeld’s ass.
Kensinger’s attorney says Gen. John Abizaid, then the head of Central Command, had responsibility to notify family.
Conversation minded can give gabbly a try this morning.
[Mod Note; Link fixed by mod.]
Tillman, a football star, was a high- profile individual with the ability to foster the recruitment of many other volunteers. Is is unfathomable to believe that no higher-ups were keeping tabs on him at all times.
Mistakes were made but there was no coverup. It all just sort of happened. Strange to hear this coming from generals. Usually you hear this kind of excuse from a 5 year old explaining how the glass fell off the table and broke on the floor.
Don’t they have e-mail between Army lawyers congratulating each other for blocking a CID investigation? Drag their butts before the committee.
Mica: Rummy and I and others had breakfast one day. Talk was about the military had been downsized. We had coffee. We learned together aboutthe attacj of WTC. Rummy helped people victimized at pentagon. I was on a plane coming back to DC. Of course tehre was no cover-up here.
STFU MICA
Mica doesn’t see a coverup. Just the Dems trying to get to the higher ups. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Mica implicating himself in the big lie. 9/11
Nobody saw Rumsfeld for 2 hours after the plane hit…no one saw him rescuing people anywhere near the Pentagon, hew and Myers were MIA.
No cover-up? Has anyone mentioned that a previous report to Gen. Jones by Capt. Scott found criminal negligence was destroyed and numerous witness statements were destroyed?
This hearing is bullshit. More GOP flowery speeches to cover-up negligence and incompetence.
Mica….from my state
9-11,9-11,9-11
Rummy you’re great….
ANOTHER loser who can’t put a sentence together.
Hopefully the next election some of them will be voted OUT
Mary Tillman reminds me of mothers that I talked with in Ohio who have their kids serving in Afghanistan and Iraq based on what they were told (lied to).
She is so real so honest so unaffected.
Go Kucinich!
“a small notebook”
Steve-AR @ 174
If this is true why doesn’t Waxman bring this up?
Mica – mute
November 4, 2008: Judgment Day
(Corrected!!!)
Helen @ 151
what crap. like a bank manager saying, ‘How would I know there was a holdup in progress. We have over 20,000 accounts!”
assuming of course the *bank manager* (cough) wasn’t in on the *hold up* (cough) from the getgo.
Mica proves that the ReTHUGlicans will say ANYTHING to change the story line.
Mica: Pete Gerrin(sp?) said there was no cover-up. True?
Rummy: Gerrin is correct, but I’ve been gone a long time.
Mica: The first hearing was at the time of the Corzine accident. And the first reports were tat someone had cuthim off, and that the governer did not have a seatbelt on and was going 90 mph.
Once again STFU Mica. Serioulsy, is he drunk?
Mica up kissing rummy’s as* Rummy rolled up his sleeves and went down to help people on 9/11. 99% of military do a great job.
Is Mica on drugs?
Maybe Gonzo and the head of the IRS have issued letters to the Dems on the committee stating that if they pursue this aggressively it will hurt our troops in Iraq, and they and all their familys’ assets will be siezed…
Hugh @ 176
What’s funny is the headline yesterday used the word “Coverup” and Geren, the Sec. of the Army who announced the designation of Kensinger as a fall guy, conceded that it was understandable the parents believed it was a coverup. The article also suggestively said the higher-up guy, McChrystal, had “escaped” accountability. In other words, it’s such an evident coverup the press is openly calling it such. This hearing had better take it further.
Michael at 116:
You are aware that Yvette Clarke is one of the 14 co-sponsors of Kucinich’s HR333, which lays out articles of impeachment against Cheney?
Despite her support of the Atlantic Yards (nobody’s perfect), Clarke is as solid a progressive, and out in front on impeachment, as a Sloper could want.
But let’s hold off further discussion of this so as not to crash the thread.
Helen @ 189
the Democratic Governor Corzine, don’t miss that dig.
Mica just gives me the creepy creeps, there’s something really dark there.
Mr. Mica has the audacity to describe in long winded detail of Mr. Rumsfeld’s heroic actions on September 11th.
Mr. Mica is sure there is no cover up and that he knows that people want to find those higher up.
Mica says that Pete Gerrin at no time covered up the fact that Pat Tillman died. Rumsfeld respects Pete Gerrin, but Rumsfeld says he was not involved and cannot comment on the what he did.
Mica says of course our hearts go out to the family but at the time of the last hearing the Corzine accident occurred – Gov. going 90 mph without a seatbelt and then compares it to Tillman’s death halfway around the world – see, it’s really difficult to get information accurately, especially the first report.
Tierney: The P4 was to get specifics to WH Abizadi – the memo was to you. What did you do to tell WH?
Abizaid: No
Teirney: Why?
Abizaid: I usually communicated thru chariman or secetary.
Tierney: Even if Pres may embarras himself?
Abizaid: I received the mesage late. I also saw that Chairman and Brown knew. I presumed that the info got to Pres.
Tierny to Brown: Did you tell pres?
Brown: No I was ccd
Tierney: But Abiaid just said he thought you told pres?
Brown: He should not have.
Edward Teller said:
I’d like to know why the Dr. who performed the suppressed autopsy and those involved in the suppression of it – and the denial of the Dr’s request for a CID investigation- aren’t sitting there on the bench.
One of the best points I’ve seen. Mr. Teller, I suspect that this is another dog and pony show.
conflating a car accident with three bullets to the forehead thousands of miles away and destroying the politically astute soldier’s personal journal.
interesting.
this guy sounds like another ‘the internet is not a truck’ genius.
The problem with this is what happened with the Abu Ghraib hearings…Rummy should not have been allowed to bring an entourage.
this is like questioning a bunch of suspects in the same room where they can shape their responses based on the othwer answers they hear.
For a hearing run by an old prosecutor, i don’t agree with the way they let these people testify. They should have been called on after the other, not this concerted effort to obfuscate.
Tierney to Myers: Did you tell pres?
Myers: No, maybe my staff but I don’t know.
Tierney: Who would he speak to if he spoke to WH
Myrs: I don’t know?
Tierney to Rummy: Did you tell WH?
Rummy: I don’t recall. Clearly it would be logical for us to tell WH, but I don’tthink we did.
Please save thread for commenters who can update the liveblogging or clarifying questions, etc.
Gabbly is available for conversations and one-liners.
Cranky Mod whispered in my ear that she has many ice cubed one-liners in her freezer….
[Thanks from CM…Christy is enroute this a.m. and we’re counting on our commenters for lifeblogging. Understanding about one-liners is appreciated.]
Issa is an asshole!
Tierney: Who speaks to who in WH?
Rummy: Lots of contacts.
Tierney: Who on you staff who should we speak to?
Rumy: I don’t know.
Myers: I don’t know either, Many contacts.
Helen says: It was everybody’s responsibility, so it was no ones responsibility
Has Anyone U-tubed Statements by these BOZO”S ,To See thier statement day’s months after Tillmans death.
I smell a stink, and remember all the hype over this.
Platte put on his red white and blue undies this AM.
Tierny is drilling Rumsfeld and Generals concerning who would alert the White House of Pat Tillman’s death. Rumsfeld has no idea who might alert the White House. He can’t give anyone’s name.
This was a very fast, very sharp exchange in which Rumsfeld snapped at Tierny to let him finish his answer.
Issa “do you think this was a conspiracy?” Kevin Tillman “yes”
hackworth @ 196
Why is the soldier that pulled the trigger there? What about the military attorneys that were pleased that they had prevented a thorough investigation? Does Waxman know what he is doing?
Platts (R;PA)to Rummy: Your memo of March 2006 where you told army unaccepatble nature of what happened. What changes have been made to ensure taht this does not happen again.
Rummy: I am sure there are many, but I don’t know about a lot of them.
Brown: The changes are important but you’ve gotta execute properly.
Helen says: We are not here to talk about this -we are here to talk about what happened to Pat Tillman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman
For research
What changes have been made to ensure no repeat?
I’m sure they’ve learned by now to make sure that a true believer carries out initial investigations instead of a mere O-3 who takes his job seriously and who looks to place blame where it belongs no matter what.
Pat Tillman was murdered, plain and simple and as with the WTC this criminal administration used the killing as a PR campaign to further sell the war.
Abazaid was fully aware of Abu Ghraib and he lied through his teeth in those hearings also.
Myers: OO this new email gadget makes it real hard to keep things secret /snark
Is the Tillman family satisfied with this committee hearing?
Was that Rumsfeld breathing disgustingly into the mic?
Bluetoe @ 209
I suspect he’s long dead.
Helen @ 205
Okay, you have all been naughty boys, but I’m going to let it slide this time, just make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Hayduke @ 180
9-11, Inside job. Tillman assasination, Inside job.
Other families have questions about their family members deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Ed*ard Teller @ 214
Nooo…I don’t think he’s dead.
Somewhere, Kevin Tillman is screaming.
Wordsmith @ 215
He dislikes Watson! he did a brain fart!
[sheesh, guys, give us a break–one-liners for later or gabbly, Please!]
I’m late to this, sorry…has anyone mentioned or asked anyone why direct evidence was destroyed from the scene?
Why was Tillman’s clothes destroyed and burned?
Why was his diary taken and lost?
Why has the distance been changed from the initial distances given in Scott’s report changed to make it seem that the shot came from further away?
And now Rumsfeld will do the Rummy run around in answering questions from Maxwell.
Rumsfeld ” I did not know what you just said”
So you want to know why things are so screwed up in Iraq and Afghanistan, or why we are even there? It is because we have a general staff that is made up of a bunch of Sgt. Schultzes. They know not-zing.
Watson: Rummy you said the Tillman’s were owed the truth. We wrote you a letter that you did not answer questions. You say “I do not recall” a lot. The IG letter had a lot of questions do you remember the letter?
Rummy: Yes
Watson: Q from letter: When you were told FF was suspected did you know the family was told that enemy fire killed him and the family was told not to be told that it was under investigation?
Rummy: No. I have no recollection that anyone ever told me the family should not be told the truth or that it was possiblt FF.
it was friendly fire or it was friendly fire? What hes doing double talk again
Hey, everyone! Excellent job you’re all doing.
There’s going to be a fresh Tillman thread in ten minutes. Wanted to give you all a heads-up. I’ll let you know when it’s up and running.
Wordsmith @ 219
Why do you think that?
james @ 221
no, they seem to be working on the timeline of which mucky muck knew what when
I cannot believe how rude rummy is to Rep. Watson.
What scum he is. The time for him to get away with such tricks should be OVER! Put him in gitmo to sit and think deeply over his own sins!
Rummy: All I knew re: fratricide was what was in the press. Ive answered all that I can.
Rummy would like to make a statement:
I did not see the charts, so I’m not saying anything about them (he’s talking about Cumings charts that show who knew when Rummy said he didn’t).
Frank33 @ 218
what is Mica talking about…more spin
Did that dumb shit just call the workings of Congress an ‘inconvenience to our guests.’ ???
Most FDL front posters are in transit.
Is someone ready to put up another post so servers won’t crash? Comments are now in the 200s.
Phoenix Woman?
[mod note: new post coming in under ten min from PW. Freezer’s fillin up with one-liners…just sayin’. Cranky]
[up now]
Mica “Jessica you were honest” Was he inferring that the Tillmans are not? What did Mica mean? Creepy
Wordsmith @ 234
YEP….inconveniently exposing their criminal behavior
Abizaid: A P4 is a memo that is used to impart VERY important information to the higher-ups.
McHugh to Rummy; Wouldn’t you have access to P4?
Rummy: I don’t ever recall seeing one. I may have but I do not recall.
McHugh toMyers: Ever speah to WH re this case?
Myers: Do not recall a conversation.
Mc to Abizaid: Same question
Abizaid: I was in DC on the 18th -20th. I spoke with the secretary of Def. and I believe I spoke to him about it. I may have spoken to Bush after I signed off on memo that it was fratricide. 28th of May
Question: When Rumsfeld keeps saying (as he just did to Rep. Watson) “I did’t know” and “I wasn’t told” that Tillman died as a result of fratricide, why isn’t anyone asking him why the h*ll not and wasn’t he furious that no one told him and what heads rolled when he learned he wasn’t informed? Why aren’t they pursuing this particular question? Because if we are to believe Rumsfeld his subordinates kept him out of the loop and that was just fine with him.
Fresh Tillman thread!
Helen @ 237
Helen, bless you. You’re doing beautifully.
I’ve started a fresh thread — everyone move!
can you please let me know why my comments are being moderated?
[Mod Note: the question answers itself…]
This is shear buffoonery. A Kangaroo Court. This inquiry reflects poorly on both parties, but more so on Republicans. Unfortunately, few voters will see it and the mainstream news will not report on it. Both parties want to sweep it under the rug.
They don’t have the witnesses, they don’t ask the right questions, the circle jerk forum is wrong. Nobody wants to know the truth except for us and the Tillman family.
Part 2 for you.
Up and rollin’
Student and teacher discussing test:
T: Do you remember seeing these questions?
S. No, I don’t recall seeing these questions, but I’ve just read them again, and I’m sure that when I must have seen them before I must have answered them to the best of my ability. I don’t recall the answers, but I’m sure I knew them then.
Rummy got all tangled up with himself. Good on Watson.
Just for the hell of it, from a combat vet, I never saw the award of a Silver Star or a Bronze Star in a space of less than sixty days. It takes at least that long for someone in Washington at the service command to review the facts and conduct an investigation.
Ever single one of these clowns is washing his hands of this thing yet they refuse come out and say that this thing stinks.
I will send my moderated comments into several media watch groups as I did before. I hope you can give me a legitimate reason for moderating my comments?
Look up “fratricide” — It means the killing of one by a brother. This does not mean a ‘brother soldier’. “They” being sloppy thinkers, planners and doers are using words sloppily as usual.
Issa is an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kathleen @ 243
Why do you have to be so disrespectful when a legitimate question is asked?
Can someone tell me where you’re getting the c-span feed? Here in Az the c-span3 link says ‘no sale’
Kathleen @ 251
While I know the moderators have a hard job. I would like to know who the moderator was who was is so disrespectful when a legitimate question was asked.
Never mind. Got it…just came on.
Shays is a BIGGER IDIOT!
well not really.. it’s starting with Shays blasting the Left.
Brian Lamb, the editing queeen, was here!
Siun ….was that you moderating and you who made such a snide comment when I asked a legitimate question?
Apparently Rumsfeld has all the managerial expertise and ability of Gumby. And that may be insulting Gumby. The committee is supposed to ask his employees how they knew what to tell him? Like he’s never heard that it’s the manager’s job to set policies like that
It’s another example of a Bush appointee being willing to look like a f*cking idiot rather than tell anything that remotely resembles the truth.
That 9/11 thing was weird. Started me to thinking, re all the iffiness about Rumsfeld testifying today, why did Rumsfeld show up? Has his being AWOL on 9/11–especially after having drawn all NORAD decision-making power into his own hands six months before–become a “thing”? Are there insider suspicions (or accusations)? Is that why he’s gone? (–or one of the reasons?). And so, did he show up today just to get his 9/11 cover story repeated?
Rumsfeld says neither Tillman’s mom nor anybody else has any paper on him, on the Tillman coverup. But of course they’re spying on goddamned everybody. They know what goods people have on them, and what they don’t have. So they can select the hearings/investigations they will “cooperate” with (come forth and say “I don’t recall”), and those they will completely stonewall (not show up at, give no paper to). This was a “safe” hearing for Rumsfeld–since all parties have been spied on (and some likely blackmailed or bribed, based on spying knowledge)–for the purpose of getting his 9/11 cover story out there again?
???????
Helen @ 178
He ALSO said that Rummy was warning them of a potential “incident” and that they should be prepared. I’m looking for the actual transcript. He COMPLETELY implicated Rummy re: 9-11. I’m off to the oversight page to look for the transcript.
Boston1775 @ 195
And in his long-winded detail he clearly states that Rummy warned them of a potential “incident” that they should be ready for. ON THE MORNING OF 9-11 they had breakfast and this is when Rummy told him this. I’m looking for the transcript. He completely implicates Rummy while he tries to bolster his “patriot” image. It was truly remarkable.