zunoed?

Zed?

And I actually read it first!

dakine01 @ 3

And I actually read it first!

You must have gone to the Evelyn Woodski school of slow reading! :)

Drat! Missed it by THAAAAAT much.

I always (well, since Gingrich anyhow) said that the Rs would defeat themselves. What I didn’t realize was how long it would take, how much damage they would do during the interim, and how lily-livered the Ds would be.

As long as he votes like a Dem.

Pretty funny. Repubs are bailing to become Dems, and Dems are bailing to become something else.

LS @ 8

Pretty funny. Repubs are bailing to become Dems, and Dems are bailing to become something else.

eunuchs by the look of it

LS @ 8

Pretty funny. Repubs are bailing to become Dems, and Dems are bailing to become something else.

And both bail to become corporatists.

LS @ 8

Pretty funny. Repubs are bailing to become Dems, and Dems are bailing to become something else.

personally, while i sympathise with sane Rs… i wish they would work to take back their own party… and let dems be dems.

raven @ 5

dakine01 @ 3

And I actually read it first!

You must have gone to the Evelyn Woodski school of slow reading! :)

Not really; just came back after doing some surfing and figured folks had already zed’d.

Good Post. It’s interesting because Reagan was instrumental in changing the republican party. The other day I engaged with a friend about the possibility of Hillary as President. My friend’s position was that she would be successful because she would reach across the aisle; my position was that she would be a failure because of the same reason. The face of the republicans has been changing for decades and they can no longer be negotiated with.

selise @ 11

LS @ 8

Pretty funny. Repubs are bailing to become Dems, and Dems are bailing to become something else.

personally, while i sympathise with sane Rs… i wish they would work to take back their own party… and let dems be dems.

I understand but given the numbers of Dems who switched to Rs because “The Democratic party left me, I didn’t leave it” it’s kinda fun to see the reverse scenario.

LS @ 7

As long as he votes like a Dem.

I expect much more of this.. Heck we will be lucky if most of these switchers vote like Blue Dogs..

Our party already invites/accepts anti choice and war mongering neo nuts..

It will be all I can do (with firedog support) to stay in this party through ‘08.

JPL @ 13

Good Post. It’s interesting because Reagan was instrumental in changing the republican party. The other day I engaged with a friend about the possibility of Hillary as President. My friend’s position was that she would be successful because she would reach across the aisle; my position was that she would be a failure because of the same reason. The face of the republicans has been changing for decades and they can no longer be negotiated with.

I agree with you completely. Total political anhiliation is the ONLY was to deal with contemporary Rs.

the best part of this as far as I am concerned is it will now force liarman’s hand

he is now a non entitiy, he can’t help us overide a filibuster and we have a majority without him

now we see what he does, does he switch to the republicans to give back some ballance or does he start playing ball with the democrats because his power over them is now gone

I’m thinking he continues to call himself a democrat since the neo fascist think when a democrat repeats their crap it gives it more credibility

liarman fits that bill

Why does Nancy Pelosi want to help Bushco legitimize a Spy program that is under scrutiny? The program is linked to AG Alberto Gonzo, the VP, and the bedside hospital visit to Asscroft. None have been cooperative in defining the programs, explaining their roles (or who makes the orders) and some are in contempt of congress.

Why does Nancy Pelosi want to provide cover for Republican malfeasance?

perris @ 17

the best part of this as far as I am concerned is it will now force liarman’s hand

he is now a non entitiy, he can’t help us overide a filibuster and we have a majority without him

now we see what he does, does he switch to the republicans to give back some ballance or does he start playing ball with the democrats because his power over them is now gone

I’m thinking he continues to call himself a democrat since the neo fascist think when a democrat repeats their crap it gives it more credibility

liarman fits that bill

erm,
he’s a Missouri State Senator

Devilstower also had a post on this, and likened it to what had happened in Kansas in 06. http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..04316/5124
Here’s somechoice examples of wingnuttery from it:

There has been plenty of laughter and scorn handed out to opponents, along with comportment that makes the US House under Tom Delay look like a high tea. A majority leader blew farts into the senate microphone during a Democratic speech on health care. A chorus of animal noises that drowned out a speech on education. When the public voted for an amendment to keep stem cell research in Missouri on par with other states, the Republican legislature responded by cutting funds to areas where the amendment drew support, punishing the citizens for their votes. When a statewide vote went against concealed carry, the legislature promptly installed it anyway. In 2004, Matt Blunt, son of Republican legislator Roy Blunt, took the governorship over Claire McCaskill. He immediately instituted cuts that took health care away from hundreds of thousands of children and the disabled.

Another dimension to the fraying of the gooper alliance between big money and the religious right- trouble is, the two halves of the party don’t like each other- much of the money half is libertarian in philosophy- the religious half is all for a snooping, intrusive, bible centered, in your face, “You’ll do what I TELL you you can do with them private parts” govt.

Oil an water

The sooner the Republicans realize that their party has been hijacked by amoral treasonous corporate shills, the sooner the sane members of that party – the Republicans who support the Constitution, who support the Rule of Law, who support fiscal and environmental conservatism – can start to reclaim their party.

And the sooner the Republicans can expunge corporate fascism from their party, the sooner the Democrats can do the same….

Eureka Springs @ 15

LS @ 7

As long as he votes like a Dem.

I expect much more of this.. Heck we will be lucky if most of these switchers vote like Blue Dogs..

Our party already invites/accepts anti choice and war mongering neo nuts..

It will be all I can do (with firedog support) to stay in this party through ‘08.

choice on some issues is not a problem, it’s a huge problem on others

we cannot have people calling themselves democrats and then voting for more corporate freedom and less corporate taxes at the expense of the middle claas

lower taxes go to the working class and they are target marketed at specific industries that need attention for the economy to thrive

that’s what republicans forget…tax incentives are to help the economy, you target the incentive toward the industries that are struggling, that type of tax incentive makes sense, you DO NOT give successful industry tax incentives

that’s a no no

there are a few no no’s that a republianc needs to shed before they can call themselves a democrat

another I would like to believe is public finance of elections

we can’t have corporations buying law, it doesn’t matter who they buy law from, democrat or republican, it has to stop

this is an opportune time, however for the daily affirmation:

My contempt for Joe Lieberman knows no limit and will never abate.

eCAHNomics @ 20

Devilstower also had a post on this, and likened it to what had happened in Kansas in 06. http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..04316/5124
Here’s somechoice examples of wingnuttery from it:

There has been plenty of laughter and scorn handed out to opponents, along with comportment that makes the US House under Tom Delay look like a high tea. A majority leader blew farts into the senate microphone during a Democratic speech on health care. A chorus of animal noises that drowned out a speech on education. When the public voted for an amendment to keep stem cell research in Missouri on par with other states, the Republican legislature responded by cutting funds to areas where the amendment drew support, punishing the citizens for their votes. When a statewide vote went against concealed carry, the legislature promptly installed it anyway. In 2004, Matt Blunt, son of Republican legislator Roy Blunt, took the governorship over Claire McCaskill. He immediately instituted cuts that took health care away from hundreds of thousands of children and the disabled.

Those repugs! Such jokers!

rwcole @ 21

Another dimension to the fraying of the gooper alliance between big money and the religious right- trouble is, the two halves of the party don’t like each other- much of the money half is libertarian in philosophy- the religious half is all for a snooping, intrusive, bible centered, in your face, “You’ll do what I TELL you you can do with them private parts” govt.

Oil an water

Ahem. And what about the D circular firing squad? Two parties can’t possible accomodate the diversity of opinion on all subjects.

“votes like a dem”

Thought he was running for AG? They don’t vote.

Lieberman trembling in falsetto.

I hope it is not a dream.

JPL @ 13

The other day I engaged with a friend about the possibility of Hillary as President. My friend’s position was that she would be successful because she would reach across the aisle; my position was that she would be a failure because of the same reason. The face of the republicans has been changing for decades and they can no longer be negotiated with.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. There is a large re-alignment coming. The Goldwater / Reagan / Bush stream has run it’s course. Within 5 years they will be gone. The traditional Eisenhower GOP will probably reform, and will probably absorb a lot of blue dogs and DLCers. One important factor is who will come to “own” the issues of tomorrow (I suspect those are health care and environment / global warming).

rwcole
actually, the Rs have done a pretty good job straddling the two factions, because both were cynical enough to accept
“You’ll do what I tell you with your private parts… unless you have enough money”
The cynicism’s limit is the abject incompetence ushered in with BushCo.
These are still dangerous people.

mack

The alliance is not dead- but it’s suffering. Hard to see how the religious right sticks with the goopers with enthusiasm if Rudy- or Freddy- or God forbid- a mormon- is the leader of the party.

GordonM @ 29

JPL @ 13

The other day I engaged with a friend about the possibility of Hillary as President. My friend’s position was that she would be successful because she would reach across the aisle; my position was that she would be a failure because of the same reason. The face of the republicans has been changing for decades and they can no longer be negotiated with.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. There is a large re-alignment coming. The Goldwater / Reagan / Bush stream has run it’s course. Within 5 years they will be gone. The traditional Eisenhower GOP will probably reform, and will probably absorb a lot of blue dogs and DLCers. One important factor is who will come to “own” the issues of tomorrow (I suspect those are health care and environment / global warming).

here’s what the “reaching across the aisle” crowd don’t understand;

the DEMOCRATS are the centrists, the DEMOCRATS represent the middle class, the MIDDLE CLASS is the strenght of this conoutry

there is no “reaching across the aisle” unless you want to give middle class resources and treasure to corporations

“reaching across the aisle” means you are no longer fighting for the middle class

it’s the republicans that need to “reach across the aisle” if they want to succeed and if they want to help their constituents

Col. Jack Jacobs on Hardball, I don’t believe any of the Generals told the truth about TILLMAN.

off for some tennis, see all later

Everyone here who thinks this is blatant opportunism raise your hand.

Keep ‘em up, I’m still countin’, still countin’.

Apparently they think everyone is stupid. We’ll see after the next election how well this guy does, won’t we?

Here in California, the state GOP is $4.2mm in the hole…

Heh.

hackworth @ 18

Why does Nancy Pelosi want to help Bushco legitimize a Spy program that is under scrutiny? The program is linked to AG Alberto Gonzo, the VP, and the bedside hospital visit to Asscroft. None have been cooperative in defining the programs, explaining their roles (or who makes the orders) and some are in contempt of congress.

Why does Nancy Pelosi want to provide cover for Republican malfeasance?

Because her son has a plum job with a Republican contractor company.

perris @ 32

GordonM @ 29

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. There is a large re-alignment coming. The Goldwater / Reagan / Bush stream has run it’s course. Within 5 years they will be gone. The traditional Eisenhower GOP will probably reform, and will probably absorb a lot of blue dogs and DLCers. One important factor is who will come to “own” the issues of tomorrow (I suspect those are health care and environment / global warming).

here’s what the “reaching across the aisle” crowd don’t understand;

the DEMOCRATS are the centrists, the DEMOCRATS represent the middle class, the MIDDLE CLASS is the strenght of this conoutry

there is no “reaching across the aisle” unless you want to give middle class resources and treasure to corporations

“reaching across the aisle” means you are no longer fighting for the middle class

it’s the republicans that need to “reach across the aisle” if they want to succeed and if they want to help their constituents

The Democrats would be considered a centrist party in Europe. The Republicans would be considered a neo-fascist party.

If dems gain in both houses and take the White House, that will be the end of the goopers as we know em- they will do a “remake” campaign.

Took the kids to the Harrisonville pool yesterday, great slide. Koster leaving the Repubs? I’ll believe it when I see it. These guys are too staunch on too many issues not becoming of the Democrats. Stem cell research is a real divider but when it comes to protecting the right to carry a gun and stomp out the murder of the preborn, you will see them gather in the same corner no matter what.

GordonM sez:
One important factor is who will come to “own” the issues of tomorrow (I suspect those are health care and environment / global warming).

Big Oil and their grip on Cheeney’s dick, prevent massive federal funding and installation of solar energy power plants and other viable renewable sources that should be instituted now. Big oil owns the gubmint and they want to burn every last drop at the highest cost consumers can bear. They don’t care if the world catches fire. They will hold their currency in their fists and proclaim their victory. Life is like a giant Monopoly game to them. No matter how much money they have – it is never enough.

petwrecker @ 33

Col. Jack Jacobs on Hardball, I don’t believe any of the Generals told the truth about TILLMAN.

Send Jack to Gitmo. He’s off message.

GordonM, I’m not sure that if it’s a dream or a speculation but anyway I foresee the Republican Party becoming a fraction of itself maybe 28% of the country. The same number that supports Bush, the rest will have to join the dems or create a new party. In order to win the repubs catered to the wingnuts and now they have to reap what they sow.

Bluetoe said

The Democrats would be considered a centrist party in Europe. The Republicans would be considered a neo-fascist party.

If you mean Democrats like Dennis Kucinich would be considered centrist in Europe.. I can agree with that.

Hillary, for example, not so much.

hackworth @ 18

Why does Nancy Pelosi want to help Bushco legitimize a Spy program that is under scrutiny? The program is linked to AG Alberto Gonzo, the VP, and the bedside hospital visit to Asscroft. None have been cooperative in defining the programs, explaining their roles (or who makes the orders) and some are in contempt of congress.

Why does Nancy Pelosi want to provide cover for Republican malfeasance?

Nancy Pelosi’s true loyalties lie with her social/economic class. It’s but one reason why she has taken impeachment off the table. Why would she want to make things difficult for other’s in her social/economic class when they at some point in time could be very helpful to her and her family? Do you actually think she gives a rip about the Constitution or the struggles of the middle class? It’s all smoke and mirrors.

Executive privilege in Tillman case is disgraceful Chimpy.

This post has done wonders by helping my bleak mood lighten – thanks a bunch Phoenix Woman!

I was born in Jefferson City under very unlikely circumstances. My Dad served as press secretary to the governor. My parents shared the Gov and his wife’s passion for bridge and were frequent guests for bridge and dinner at their residence.

Was a bit premature and due to snow storm conditions I was born in what was then called the executive mansion. Always thought that was pretty cool until I gave birth the first time.
;~)

I’m rather skeptical of any Republican’s “conversion.” Rather than converts they may well be moles.

Somewhat OT: Re AG. Can the US Attourney General be made an elected position? It is apparently NOT a good idea for the President to assign that position.

newspaperbrat @ 47

This post has done wonders by helping my bleak mood lighten – thanks a bunch Phoenix Woman!

I was born in Jefferson City under very unlikely circumstances. My Dad served as press secretary to the governor. My parents shared the Gov and his wife’s passion for bridge and were frequent guests for bridge and dinner at their residence.

Was a bit premature and due to snow storm conditions I was born in what was then called the executive mansion. Always thought that was pretty cool until I gave birth the first time.
;~)

Neat story and it is cool..

Bluetoe @ 45

hackworth @ 18

Why does Nancy Pelosi want to help Bushco legitimize a Spy program that is under scrutiny? The program is linked to AG Alberto Gonzo, the VP, and the bedside hospital visit to Asscroft. None have been cooperative in defining the programs, explaining their roles (or who makes the orders) and some are in contempt of congress.

Why does Nancy Pelosi want to provide cover for Republican malfeasance?

Nancy Pelosi’s true loyalties lie with her social/economic class. It’s but one reason why she has taken impeachment off the table. Why would she want to make things difficult for other’s in her social/economic class when they at some point in time could be very helpful to her and her family? Do you actually think she gives a rip about the Constitution or the struggles of the middle class? It’s all smoke and mirrors.

I hope they dont do this. this may be the last straw for me.
http://www.dailykos.com/
McJoan is reporting

snowbird42 @ 51

Bluetoe @ 45

Nancy Pelosi’s true loyalties lie with her social/economic class. It’s but one reason why she has taken impeachment off the table. Why would she want to make things difficult for other’s in her social/economic class when they at some point in time could be very helpful to her and her family? Do you actually think she gives a rip about the Constitution or the struggles of the middle class? It’s all smoke and mirrors.

I hope they dont do this. this may be the last straw for me.
http://www.dailykos.com/
McJoan is reporting

See my last post #281 on last thread about Pelosi and FISA.

james @ 35

Everyone here who thinks this is blatant opportunism raise your hand.

Keep ‘em up, I’m still countin’, still countin’.

Apparently they think everyone is stupid. We’ll see after the next election how well this guy does, won’t we?

Opportunism!

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

I feel better. Apparently Leahy isn’t playing with Gonzo.

Bluetoe @ 45 is correct. The mantra is ‘the Right crowd and no crowding.’ How may these folks, many of whom might just as well live off-planet, ‘Represent’ our interests?
Consider single-payer Health care system,
Participatory Democracy, and a humane, human
(not ficticiious person) economic system…

LS @ 52

snowbird42 @ 51

I hope they dont do this. this may be the last straw for me.
http://www.dailykos.com/
McJoan is reporting

See my last post #281 on last thread about Pelosi and FISA.

That’s why I think Pelosi will be judged by history as a failure for her stance on impeachment and her willingness to “play ball” with the most corrupt administration in the history of the nation.

Hey
Rudy’s on Charlie Rose tonight, don’t want to be missin’ that

somebody tell watertiger

TPM has part of a letter from Leahy up. He doesn’t think that it’s a good idea to revise FISA so as to give more authority to the AG.

The reform we have proposed to the Administration will improve the government’s ability to collect intelligence, while protecting the civil liberties of Americans by maintaining oversight of the FISA Court when calls to or from the United States are involved. The Administration, instead, would shift this oversight role and additional authority away from the expert FISA Court to the Attorney General. It is essential to preserve the crucial role of the FISA Court in protecting civil liberties of Americans while providing our intelligence agencies the flexibility they need. It is not wise to expand the authority of this Attorney General – or any Attorney General – in this regard.

James @ 35, both of my hands are raised.

LS @ 52

snowbird42 @ 51

I hope they dont do this. this may be the last straw for me.
http://www.dailykos.com/
McJoan is reporting

See my last post #281 on last thread about Pelosi and FISA.

I read your post. I’m hoping for a explanation of the Mystery poster. I read it and it is worse than Greek.

P J Evans @ 58

TPM has part of a letter from Leahy up. He doesn’t think that it’s a good idea to revise FISA so as to give more authority to the AG.

The reform we have proposed to the Administration will improve the government’s ability to collect intelligence, while protecting the civil liberties of Americans by maintaining oversight of the FISA Court when calls to or from the United States are involved. The Administration, instead, would shift this oversight role and additional authority away from the expert FISA Court to the Attorney General. It is essential to preserve the crucial role of the FISA Court in protecting civil liberties of Americans while providing our intelligence agencies the flexibility they need. It is not wise to expand the authority of this Attorney General – or any Attorney General – in this regard.

I loved that last line

JPL @ 43

GordonM, I’m not sure that if it’s a dream or a speculation but anyway I foresee the Republican Party becoming a fraction of itself maybe 28% of the country. The same number that supports Bush, the rest will have to join the dems or create a new party. In order to win the repubs catered to the wingnuts and now they have to reap what they sow.

If they do join the Dems, that will put the Dems in somewhat right of DLC territory, and a new party will form – on the Left.

There’s an artificial unity going on – the unity of the anti-Bush overwhelming majority. It has no other identity. As soon as Bush is history (or everybody is sure he will soon be history), that unity will fracture. Very messily, I’m afraid.

After writing the above, I would add “media reform” to the issues of healthcare and environment. Progressives need to unite behind a relatively coherent agreement on those 3 issues. If we push those above all else, we can reclaim the Democratic party. If we fight over secondary issues, the DLC / blue dog / converted Reps will hijack the Dem party into the pro-business, don’t rock the boat party.

I’ve been a Democrat for 39 years. Can someone tell me what a true Democrat is today?

Does anyone else find it stunning that the administration wants to give more power to the AG and Pelosi thinks that it may be appropriate?

Hi
Great stuff posted and commented here again today. Any chance someone will challenge Pelosi for SOH at the first possible chance?

Is it time to start a “Dump Pelosi” movement?

I want to see the dems finish something. If it’s impeachment- well OK- but then I want to see both Bush and Cheney out of office–otherwise- don’t waste your time and ours doin somethin that only makes you look more silly.

If yer goin after Gonzo- GET HIM. If yer gonna end the war END it! But don’t make a show out of “trying”- it’s stupid and makes you look weak and stupid.

Pick a fight you can win and WIN IT!!

OT
But then again, Great Performances is seriously worth watching:

RESPECT YOURSELF: THE STAX RECORDS STORY premieres on August 1, 2007 on PBS (check local listings).

Between 1959 and 1975, Stax Records in Memphis, Tennessee released international chart-topping hits such as “Soul Man,” “Dock of the Bay,” “Green Onions,” “Midnight Hour,” “Respect Yourself,” and the theme from SHAFT. The label’s artists included Otis Redding, Sam & Dave, Booker T. & the MG’s, Rufus and Carla Thomas, the Staple Singers, Isaac Hayes, and even Richard Pryor and Jesse Jackson. Founded by a white conservative bank teller who played country fiddle music, Stax became the preeminent soul music label in America, and became identified with the civil rights movement of the 1960s and ’70s. RESPECT YOURSELF documents the Stax label, its visionaries, and most of all, its music…

THE STAX RECORDS STORY

Hillary Clinton switched from Republican to Democrat.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 69

Hillary Clinton switched from Republican to Democrat.

Nowadays she seems to be jumping back and forth so fast that she’s almost a blur.

Oklahoma Kid, I’d be very interested in hearing what YOU think a real Democrat looks like.

Specter switched parties. Because he couldn’t win as a Democrat.

Bluetoe @ 66

Is it time to start a “Dump Pelosi” movement?

Dump Pelosi???? I am in favor of making her President of the United States. NOW!

If only Hillary were left of Goldwater now. Impeachment, for one thing, would be one the kitchen table of most Americans today.

Elliott, Thanks for the Stax notice.. setting my DVR now!

BigMitch @ 73

Why?

Fozzetti @ 49

Somewhat OT: Re AG. Can the US Attourney General be made an elected position? It is apparently NOT a good idea for the President to assign that position.

The Attorney General of several states, including Texas, is an elected official. It is a horrible idea.

We had a thread here a few days ago on criminal punishment. If we had an elected Attorney General, all the horrors mentioned therein, would rise exponentially.

TheraP, the writer in the comments who interviewed the mystery poster, came to FDL and reported about these important posts.

TheraP explained how to read the comments and encouraged us to read to the end. Do the work.

I did this and brought my understanding to FDL. A few of you picked this up and went to read.

However, the people that run FDL neglected this information except for LHP, who said that she had a lot of experience in white collar prosecution and that these comments were bogus.

—–

On Sunday, there were two commenters who brought our attention to the comments of Dick Cheney in the NYT (Dick Cheney sent Gonzales and Card to the hospital.) No one picked up on it even though there were multiple efforts.

——

Something seems to be off here. The information was here for FDL to take the lead in breaking news. Instead, TPM breaks the story of Dick Cheney and KOS is grabbing on to the information from TheraP and the mystery poster.

Any ideas? Is this just how FDL site works?

David W. Bartoo @ 75

BigMitch @ 73

Why?

Impeachment, conviction and removal from office of POTUS and VPOTUS –> Speaker of House becomes President.

Bluetoe @ 56

LS @ 52

See my last post #281 on last thread about Pelosi and FISA.

That’s why I think Pelosi will be judged by history as a failure for her stance on impeachment and her willingness to “play ball” with the most corrupt administration in the history of the nation.

Not if playing ball means catching them.

BigMitch @ 78

David W. Bartoo @ 75

BigMitch @ 73

Why?

Impeachment, conviction and removal from office of POTUS and VPOTUS –> Speaker of House becomes President.

absolutely!
PELOSI 2007!

Yes, BigMitch, but courage and judgement seem singularly lacking in this person. Or so it appears to me. As a ‘caretaker,’ to whom would she feel beholden?

LS @ 79

Bluetoe @ 56

That’s why I think Pelosi will be judged by history as a failure for her stance on impeachment and her willingness to “play ball” with the most corrupt administration in the history of the nation.

Not if playing ball means catching them.

So now I am forced to post this again
Is Nancy Pelosi a freakin’ GENIUS??

don’t tell me it’s a pipe dream, it’s my heartfelt desire.

Errr, off topic, but, ran across this …

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 1, 2007

CHAIRMAN ROCKEFELLER OUTLINES CONGRESSIONAL PROPOSAL FOR INTERIM FISA FIX

[…]

The interim fix proposed by Senator Rockefeller and others seeks to:

Ø Reinforce that foreign-to-foreign collection is not covered by FISA, consistent with current law;

Ø Ensure that the FISA Court, not solely the Attorney General, has an oversight role where foreign target surveillance touches on individuals inside the U.S.;

Ø Grant FISA Court new authority for court orders covering certain aggregated foreign collection while protecting rights and privacy of U.S. persons;

Ø Ensure continued FISA Court approval of guidelines and procedures for minimizing U.S. identities and determining the point at which initial foreign collection transitions to cover U.S. persons of interest (thereby triggering individual probable cause warrant requirements);

Ø Maintain FISA Court authority to compel compliance from telecommunications companies; and

Ø Set forth a firm legislative sunset date to ensure continued action on more lasting comprehensive FISA reforms.

Boston1775 @ 77

Any ideas?

my 2 cents:

1. if you put it in the comments, many people will read it… our front pagers can’t cover everything.
2. not everything has to break at fdl… so long as it is being well covered in the blogoshere.

p.s. i’m not unsympathetic – did you see me about a month ago when i was yelling (pretty much constantly for a couple of weeks) about h.con.r.21?

Boston1775 @ 77

TheraP, the writer in the comments who interviewed the mystery poster, came to FDL and reported about these important posts.

TheraP explained how to read the comments and encouraged us to read to the end. Do the work.

I did this and brought my understanding to FDL. A few of you picked this up and went to read.

However, the people that run FDL neglected this information except for LHP, who said that she had a lot of experience in white collar prosecution and that these comments were bogus.

—–

On Sunday, there were two commenters who brought our attention to the comments of Dick Cheney in the NYT (Dick Cheney sent Gonzales and Card to the hospital.) No one picked up on it even though there were multiple efforts.

——

Something seems to be off here. The information was here for FDL to take the lead in breaking news. Instead, TPM breaks the story of Dick Cheney and KOS is grabbing on to the information from TheraP and the mystery poster.

Any ideas? Is this just how FDL site works?

I picked it up from you. LHP who knows legaleze picked it up and thought it sounded dubious, but she has picked it up again, and so have some others. I think there is there, there. There appear to be multiple “blank” posters. It is hard for a site to take the lead on a story that one is unsure of. Kos has many writers writing diaries, so it isn’t Kos saying it is so or not so. Different format. I’m glad they are looking into it. That is what is important. No one knows the validity yet. The importance is to spread the word and examine and verify.

DWB —

The worst democrat, on the worst day of his/her life, is better than the best republicist on the best day of his.

P.S. Tucker Carlson is sooooooooo nausiating. e.g. “Does anybody believe that killing Osama Bin Laden would be anything more than a symbolic act? The real war on Terror is in Iraq.” Gag me.

PPS. Shorter Hardball: T I L L M A N

PPSS. Bill Press reaction to Tucker saying that new evidence that Barak Obama is ambitious: “B. F. D.” (That’s a direct quote.)

john in sacramento @ 83

Errr, off topic, but, ran across this …

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 1, 2007

CHAIRMAN ROCKEFELLER OUTLINES CONGRESSIONAL PROPOSAL FOR INTERIM FISA FIX

[…]

The interim fix proposed by Senator Rockefeller and others seeks to:

Ø Reinforce that foreign-to-foreign collection is not covered by FISA, consistent with current law;

Ø Ensure that the FISA Court, not solely the Attorney General, has an oversight role where foreign target surveillance touches on individuals inside the U.S.;

Ø Grant FISA Court new authority for court orders covering certain aggregated foreign collection while protecting rights and privacy of U.S. persons;

Ø Ensure continued FISA Court approval of guidelines and procedures for minimizing U.S. identities and determining the point at which initial foreign collection transitions to cover U.S. persons of interest (thereby triggering individual probable cause warrant requirements);

Ø Maintain FISA Court authority to compel compliance from telecommunications companies; and

Ø Set forth a firm legislative sunset date to ensure continued action on more lasting comprehensive FISA reforms.

My Bold.

Elliott @ 80

BigMitch @ 78

Impeachment, conviction and removal from office of POTUS and VPOTUS –> Speaker of House becomes President.

absolutely!
PELOSI 2007!

Big Mitch, do you want Nancy Pelosi as President because she does what A*P*C tells her to do just as LIEberman does, just more subtly?

Has the House of Representatives adjourned for the month of August?

David W. Bartoo @ 71

Oklahoma Kid, I’d be very interested in hearing what YOU think a real Democrat looks like.

Well let’s see. A true Democrat for us would: support environmental protection. Support diplomacy above war. Support free, quality education for all. Support single payer health coverage. Support public financing of elections. Not exploit third world countries. Get rid of the DLC. Redistribute wealth. Support justice under the law. Support equal pay for equal work. And the list goes on. ;0)

john in sacramento @ 83

Errr, off topic, but, ran across this …

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 1, 2007

CHAIRMAN ROCKEFELLER OUTLINES CONGRESSIONAL PROPOSAL FOR INTERIM FISA FIX

[…]

The interim fix proposed by Senator Rockefeller and others seeks to:

Ø Reinforce that foreign-to-foreign collection is not covered by FISA, consistent with current law;

Ø Ensure that the FISA Court, not solely the Attorney General, has an oversight role where foreign target surveillance touches on individuals inside the U.S.;

Ø Grant FISA Court new authority for court orders covering certain aggregated foreign collection while protecting rights and privacy of U.S. persons;

Ø Ensure continued FISA Court approval of guidelines and procedures for minimizing U.S. identities and determining the point at which initial foreign collection transitions to cover U.S. persons of interest (thereby triggering individual probable cause warrant requirements);

Ø Maintain FISA Court authority to compel compliance from telecommunications companies; and

Ø Set forth a firm legislative sunset date to ensure continued action on more lasting comprehensive FISA reforms.

thanks for the info.

and what in here is such a problem that it must be changed immediately?

i really want to see the text of the proposed changes. i do not trust rockefeller.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 63

I’ve been a Democrat for 39 years. Can someone tell me what a true Democrat is today?

Trotsky without the camps during the Red Terror?

Seriously, the only guy I think of as a Dem is Dennis Kucinich. The rest of them are GOP-lite, every last one of them.

Holy Moly! The chairman of the state senate republican caucus has become a Democrat?!?!

I’ll toast to that!

maunga — I think I explained myself at 86 supra. If you prefer Bush and Cheney to Nancy Pelosi, more power to you. One question: how do you sleep at night?

BigMitch, you may well be correct in your assertion regarding Dems and those others, however, since All of them ‘know’ things we do NOT, you will, I hope forgive my small qualms?

Albert Gore’s a bit of a Democrat, IMO.

james @ 92

Oklahoma kiddo @ 63

I’ve been a Democrat for 39 years. Can someone tell me what a true Democrat is today?

Trotsky without the camps during the Red Terror?

Seriously, the only guy I think of as a Dem is Dennis Kucinich. The rest of them are GOP-lite, every last one of them.

Not quite. Peter Welch, the newly elected jr Senator from Vermont fits the bill. And I am sure there are others. But I agree with the general sentiment!

Gore and Kucinich are good.

Thanks selise and LS – yes I noticed both of you. I think I have to get used to my own temperament as a blogger and find out where I belong.

” Earlier this year, the Senate Intelligence Committee began work on the issue of modernizing FISA with the overarching goal of improving foreign intelligence collection, protecting civil liberties, and preventing this or any future President from ever abusing surveillance laws again.

Unfortunately, the Committee has been hampered in its ability to address FISA modernization because the Administration has refused to provide key documents at the heart of the warrantless surveillance program: the Presidential orders authorizing the program and the Department of Justice opinions on the legality of the program.

The interim fix proposed by Senator Rockefeller and others would allow for improved intelligence collection, along with sufficient oversight, until a long-term solution is achieved. “

Boston1775 @ 77

TheraP, the writer in the comments who interviewed the mystery poster, came to FDL and reported about these important posts.

TheraP explained how to read the comments and encouraged us to read to the end. Do the work.

I did this and brought my understanding to FDL. A few of you picked this up and went to read.

However, the people that run FDL neglected this information except for LHP, who said that she had a lot of experience in white collar prosecution and that these comments were bogus.

—–

On Sunday, there were two commenters who brought our attention to the comments of Dick Cheney in the NYT (Dick Cheney sent Gonzales and Card to the hospital.) No one picked up on it even though there were multiple efforts.

——

Something seems to be off here. The information was here for FDL to take the lead in breaking news. Instead, TPM breaks the story of Dick Cheney and KOS is grabbing on to the information from TheraP and the mystery poster.

Any ideas? Is this just how FDL site works?

I saw TheraP’s post and commented that it seemed alot like Deep Throat, only that we are all Bob Woodward.
I can only respond as a commenter who doesn’t spend all day and night here. Some of the people here at the Lake seem to spend a good deal of time researching, from the kinds of comments with links, etc. Some people here seem to just need a forum to vent, make very clever comments or to ask specific questions. It’s like any other community, virtual or otherwise. Many types and personalities. It does make me sad when the writers and mods ask people to stick to the topic and wait until After Live Blogging to go all chatty about their various opinions.
That’s my 02 cents.

maunga @ 88

Elliott @ 80

absolutely!
PELOSI 2007!

Big Mitch, do you want Nancy Pelosi as President because she does what A*P*C tells her to do just as LIEberman does, just more subtly?

This was said above but it bears repreating: Pelosi is doing the bidding of her class. This has nothing to do with A*P*C and there is no need to try starting an ad hominem slugfest here among ourselves.

I know Mitch can speak for himself, but I, for one, as a regular reader/lurker, am getting tired of it.

We are Gore for President types in this house.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 103

We are Gore for President types in this house.

Ya coulda fooled me!!!

David W. Bartoo @ 81

Yes, BigMitch, but courage and judgement seem singularly lacking in this person. Or so it appears to me. As a ‘caretaker,’ to whom would she feel beholden?

Maybe you should think about how Pelosi’s implosion was nightly predicted by the MSM from the day after the election. Ew, she wants a bigger airplane that Hastert! Ew, she’s in a cat fight with Harmon! Ew, she’s toast because she wants Murtha over Steny Hoyer! Ew, she’s a traitor ’cause she went to Syria! (Ignoring the “facelifts” and “pantsuits” here).

Give her some respect. She’s probably about the best politician in DC, and while I’d like her to be more progressive, she’s nobody’s mule.

We support the Speaker. And we urge the Speaker to put impeachment on the table.

I meant it makes me sad when we’re asked to STFU and people keep on chatting instead of waiting until the appropriate time.
Just clarifying.:)

GordonM @ 105

David W. Bartoo @ 81

Yes, BigMitch, but courage and judgement seem singularly lacking in this person. Or so it appears to me. As a ‘caretaker,’ to whom would she feel beholden?

Maybe you should think about how Pelosi’s implosion was nightly predicted by the MSM from the day after the election. Ew, she wants a bigger airplane that Hastert! Ew, she’s in a cat fight with Harmon! Ew, she’s toast because she wants Murtha over Steny Hoyer! Ew, she’s a traitor ’cause she went to Syria! (Ignoring the “facelifts” and “pantsuits” here).

Give her some respect. She’s probably about the best politician in DC, and while I’d like her to be more progressive, she’s nobody’s mule.

Gordon, we’re more concerned with how the Dems are looking like a bunch of jackasses with her leadership or lack thereof.

james @ 104

Oklahoma kiddo @ 103

We are Gore for President types in this house.

Ya coulda fooled me!!!

;0)

BigMitch @ 86

The worst democrat, on the worst day of his/her life, is better than the best republicist on the best day of his.

uh, no.

lincoln chafee voted against the iraq war. my senator kerry voted for it (along with many other Ds). on that day chafee was better than kerry and many other dems.

kudos to chafee.

and whitehouse is a vast improvement over chafee.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 106

We support the Speaker. And we urge the Speaker to put impeachment on the table.

There is no time like the present.

Elliott @ 111

Oklahoma kiddo @ 106

We support the Speaker. And we urge the Speaker to put impeachment on the table.

There is no time like the present.

and there would be no better present than the inquiry.

James @ 102

James, she demonstrated her position by removing “No attack on Iran” from the Bill at A*P*C’s request. Note, too how much she as received from them.

No ad hominem, it is that the woman is not representing what first her Party members want and second what the country wants, and she is one of the two Co0ngressional Leaders.

The US has no “class”, but only a financial structure.

News?

NBC reporting that Gonzales has sent a letter to the Senate saying his testimony last week may have “appeared misleading”, and he wants opportunity to set the record straight.

james @ 112

Elliott @ 111

There is no time like the present.

and there would be no better present than the inquiry.

all wrapped up with a big blue bow!

Most Dems are conservatives with a small “c”. In Europe and Canada, they would be Conservatives. Most rethugs would be considered far to the right. We have very few genuine Liberals in the congress, and even fewer labor/laftists. Bernie Sanders of Vermont is an example of the latter. (and correction is due on a previous post, Peter Welch is the new Rep from VT, and he is a “real” Dem.)

Thank you Oklahoma Kid. Gore, for a number of reasons is opting out. Kucinch IS good, today especially. I was not being
facetious, you ‘list’ is impressive. Expand upon it and publish far and wide. YOU just might save your party with your wit, wisdom and obvious skill with our poor old language.

David W. Bartoo @ 117

Thank you Oklahoma Kid. Gore, for a number of reasons is opting out. Kucinch IS good, today especially. I was not being
facetious, you ‘list’ is impressive. Expand upon it and publish far and wide. YOU just might save your party with your wit, wisdom and obvious skill with our poor old language.

Did he say he is not running? Linky?

Does anyone here support party over principle?

Jonathan @ 119

Does anyone here support party over principle?

NO!

Who is more not running yet, Gore, Gingrich, Fred, or Jeb?

Jonathan @ 119

Does anyone here support party over principle?

no fucking way.

hope that was clear enough. *g*

marymccurnin @ 120

Jonathan @ 119

Does anyone here support party over principle?

NO!

Hell NO!

In the last 2 national elections about half the people in the country were Democrats, and half were Republicans. Figure 150 million democrats in this country.

We are going to cover a range of opinions. Hell, our Senate Majority Leader is anti-abortion. Get used to it. One reason that Republicans had such a powerful hold on power is that they understood that someone who disagrees with me 20% of the time is my friend 80% of the time.

To say, as some here have said, that Kucinich is the only true Democrat is silly. Are you saying Dodd is not? Back it up. Maybe you have complaints about Hillary — I know I do. But she is one of us, and she could get a lobodomy and still be better than any Republican.

It bothers me a lot to see how harsh we are on Dems, while thugs get the silence treatment. Someone here said that they don’t trust Rockefeller. (I apologize if this sounds like I am singling out one commenter.) Puhleeeze, make your case, because right now, I don’t get it. At. All.

The next president of the united States will be a politician. That means that he or she will have made some accomodations during a lifetime. Let’s nominate the best winner and then back that person.

Bluntly put. Would Gore be allowed to survive a run for the Presidency? Might his life not be forfeit?

maunga @ 113

James @ 102

James, she demonstrated her position by removing “No attack on Iran” from the Bill at A*P*C’s request. Note, too how much she as received from them.

No ad hominem, it is that the woman is not representing what first her Party members want and second what the country wants, and she is one of the two Co0ngressional Leaders.

The US has no “class”, but only a financial structure.

The myth that there is no class structure in the US is why the GOP has been allowed to fool so many people into voting against their class interests.

This financial structure is based on class altho you’d be hard pressed to get anyone to define it. The prols in this country work for retailers with very few benefits at low paying jobs with very little union representation. The dwindling middle class is employed in union jobs and in civil service jobs throughout the country.

The bandit class is well-represented in the White house and the Congress and the Supreme Court and various other courts throughout the US.

Pelosi is making sure that her constituents who benefit from the defense spending and the provisions of bills that protect fee for service versus single payer medical care in this country are taken care of at the expense of people who need medical marijuana or affordable health care or affordable housing for that matter.

I’m just saying that I’m tired of hearing about Israel and people being in the pay of its US branches when there are more importnt things to focus on here.

As usual, the left like throwing stones at each other instead of aiming them where they truly belong.

And, btw, I’m with the goyim.

Jonathan @ 119

Does anyone here support party over principle?

Fuck no! Which is why I will give them hell in any way I possibly can, when they deserve it. Which is far to often, imo.

David W. Bartoo @ 117

Thank you Oklahoma Kid. Gore, for a number of reasons is opting out. Kucinch IS good, today especially. I was not being
facetious, you ‘list’ is impressive. Expand upon it and publish far and wide. YOU just might save your party with your wit, wisdom and obvious skill with our poor old language.

Kucinich was the only one, imo, who used his time today to any advantage during the Tillman hearing.

btw there’s a great pic of the gutless wonders at HuffPo

james @ 126

Pelosi is making sure that her constituents who benefit from the defense spending and the provisions of bills that protect fee for service versus single payer medical care in this country are taken care of at the expense of people who need medical marijuana or affordable health care or affordable housing for that matter.

i actually think that a*p*c is mostly a front group for the arms manufacturers.

so, i guess that means i agree with both of you.

o/t drive-by….(did take the time to read the post, though…good job pw!)

rudy ghouliani is on charlie rose tonight………

David W. Bartoo @ 125

Bluntly put. Would Gore be allowed to survive a run for the Presidency? Might his life not be forfeit?

Grim, dark thought. Possible? These thugs have killed 750,000 people without concern and Gore is a true threat. After all these years I still hate thinking like this.

Well, there is one republican who’s not afraid to have bush come & do a fund raiser for him, Norm Coleman. Hmm. Franken has raised a lot of money so far. Norm must have decided the money bush can raise for him outweighed the risk of catching bush cooties.

Kucinich is anti-choice.

That needs to be kept in mind.

I feel we have no heroes today, alas.

Elliott @ 128

David W. Bartoo @ 117

Thank you Oklahoma Kid. Gore, for a number of reasons is opting out. Kucinch IS good, today especially. I was not being
facetious, you ‘list’ is impressive. Expand upon it and publish far and wide. YOU just might save your party with your wit, wisdom and obvious skill with our poor old language.

Kucinich was the only one, imo, who used his time today to any advantage during the Tillman hearing.

btw there’s a great pic of the gutless wonders at HuffPo

Priceless.

I do not recall, do you recall, no, I do not recall. Gee whiz, how did it happen, I dunno, do you, no I do not recall.

james @ 126

maunga @ 113

James @ 102

James, she demonstrated her position by removing “No attack on Iran” from the Bill at A*P*C’s request. Note, too how much she as received from them.

No ad hominem, it is that the woman is not representing what first her Party members want and second what the country wants, and she is one of the two Co0ngressional Leaders.

The US has no “class”, but only a financial structure.

The myth that there is no class structure in the US is why the GOP has been allowed to fool so many people into voting against their class interests.

This financial structure is based on class altho you’d be hard pressed to get anyone to define it. The prols in this country work for retailers with very few benefits at low paying jobs with very little union representation. The dwindling middle class is employed in union jobs and in civil service jobs throughout the country.

The bandit class is well-represented in the White house and the Congress and the Supreme Court and various other courts throughout the US.

Pelosi is making sure that her constituents who benefit from the defense spending and the provisions of bills that protect fee for service versus single payer medical care in this country are taken care of at the expense of people who need medical marijuana or affordable health care or affordable housing for that matter.

I’m just saying that I’m tired of hearing about Israel and people being in the pay of its US branches when there are more importnt things to focus on here.

As usual, the left like throwing stones at each other instead of aiming them where they truly belong.

And, btw, I’m with the goyim.

My daughter is half-Syrian with Palestinian cousins and my domestic partner is a 2nd generation Polish Jew with family in Israel. I support peace in the Middle East. For that reason, I try not to take sides…which means that I support the true progressives on both sides,while criticizing the respective extremists/nutcases. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve to live well and long.

Running Scared they are!!!

Republicans Shun Debate, and Right Cries Out

By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: August 1, 2007

When the leading Republican presidential candidates started to squirm last week about attending a Sept. 17 YouTube debate, in which the public would ask questions via video, there was a surprising backlash from the world of Republican and conservative bloggers.

…

The YouTube debate snub is the symptom, not the disease,” said Patrick Ruffini, a prominent Republican blogger and the e-campaign director for the Republican National Committee from 2005 until earlier this year.

The “disease,” he said in an interview, is the Republicans’ failure to convey that “the online community matters to them,” even if they have active Web sites and are using them to raise money. He has helped start an online petition to urge the candidates to participate in the YouTube debate.

The candidates are now trying to patch up the mess. Rudolph W. Giuliani and Mitt Romney, two of the leading Republicans, had said last week that the Sept. 17 date interfered with their fund-raising schedules and Mr. Romney said the video format was demeaning. Today, an aide to Mr. Giuliani said the campaign was working with CNN, which is to show the debate, to find a mutually agreeable date, while an aide to Mr. Romney said they were waiting for CNN to propose a new date and would then consider participating.

…

Still, the damage may have been done in reinforcing a stereotype of Republicans as stuck in a time warp, writing off younger voters and afraid to face an unpredictable public that has a negative opinion of the current Republican White House and the war in Iraq.

Andrew Sullivan, writing on theatlantic.com, put it this way: “For my part, the current old white men running for the G.O.P. already seem from some other planet. Ducking YouTube after the Dems did so well will look like a party uncomfortable with the culture and uncomfortable with democracy.”

…

Kucinich was the only one, imo, who used his time today to any advantage during the Tillman hearing.
I thought Rep. Cummings did a good job, charts and all. Asked good questions.

Bluetoe @ 64

Does anyone else find it stunning that the administration wants to give more power to the AG and Pelosi thinks that it may be appropriate?

Stunning isn’t the word I was thinking of but, yes, I agree completely..

dmac @ 130

o/t drive-by….(did take the time to read the post, though…good job pw!)

rudy ghouliani is on charlie rose tonight………

Charlie is such an arrogant, yet foolish tool.

marymccurnin @ 131

David W. Bartoo @ 125

Bluntly put. Would Gore be allowed to survive a run for the Presidency? Might his life not be forfeit?

Grim, dark thought. Possible? These thugs have killed 750,000 people without concern and Gore is a true threat. After all these years I still hate thinking like this.

Gore already has secret service protection.

Demi @ 137

Kucinich was the only one, imo, who used his time today to any advantage during the Tillman hearing.
I thought Rep. Cummings did a good job, charts and all. Asked good questions.

yes, yes. forgive me for not mentioning him.

Demi @ 137

Kucinich was the only one, imo, who used his time today to any advantage during the Tillman hearing.
I thought Rep. Cummings did a good job, charts and all. Asked good questions.

He sure did! Wasn’t he also the one who asked them all who signed off on the Silver Star, and they all scrambled and said they really didn’t know; then he puts it up on the screen and it was Bush!! Great moment! I think it was Cummings.

BigMitch @ 140

marymccurnin @ 131

Grim, dark thought. Possible? These thugs have killed 750,000 people without concern and Gore is a true threat. After all these years I still hate thinking like this.

Gore already has secret service protection.

Yes, but didn’t the two Kennedys? Perhaps since that was a long time ago it does not count.

oddmommy @ 133

Kucinich is anti-choice.

That needs to be kept in mind.

I feel we have no heroes today, alas.

I think a fair summary of Kucinich is that he is anti-abortion, but that he respects the rights of women to choose otherwise. That’s what I got from looking into the matter.

If he wants to decrease abortion, by, say, promoting education, and improving the economy, etc. I say, more power to him.

I may be wrong on my take as to Kucinich’s abortion stance, So if you disagree with me, a link would be helpful.

LS @ 142

Demi @ 137

Kucinich was the only one, imo, who used his time today to any advantage during the Tillman hearing.
I thought Rep. Cummings did a good job, charts and all. Asked good questions.

He sure did! Wasn’t he also the one who asked them all who signed off on the Silver Star, and they all scrambled and said they really didn’t know; then he puts it up on the screen and it was Bush!! Great moment! I think it was Cummings.

Christ on a raft! I thought I was watching, but I missed that part. It was a mindnumbingly boring and irritating hearing for the most part, so I guess I must have just zoned out.

tbsa @ 138

Bluetoe @ 64

Does anyone else find it stunning that the administration wants to give more power to the AG and Pelosi thinks that it may be appropriate?

Stunning isn’t the word I was thinking of but, yes, I agree completely..

No. According to the Rockefeller statement it takes power and oversight away from the AG. Back to at least “two” lines of audit (FISA and Congress).

Jonathan @ 119

Does anyone here support party over principle?

NO FUCKIN WAY

marymccurnin @ 143

BigMitch @ 140

Gore already has secret service protection.

Yes, but didn’t the two Kennedys? Perhaps since that was a long time ago it does not count.

I believe Bobby Kennedy, did not. His bodyguards that night were Raeffer Johnson and Rosie Greer.

BigMitch, so did JFK and RFK, MLK and
Malcolm did not. I was sixteen when JFK was murdered, it has shaped some of my perpectives.
Life has been made too cheap, especially of late.

BigMitch @ 124

It bothers me a lot to see how harsh we are on Dems, while thugs get the silence treatment. Someone here said that they don’t trust Rockefeller. (I apologize if this sounds like I am singling out one commenter.) Puhleeeze, make your case, because right now, I don’t get it. At. All.

i don’t mean to bother you BigMitch… it’s just that i’m especially pissed off at the dems today (see tillman hearing this morning). and i think i have reason not to trust rockefeller (see phase II iraq intelligence report).

to try to respond to your very valid concerns:

1. i think if you added up all the front page posts about politicians, there are very few negative ones that focus on dems.

2. i expect the republicans are up to no good, and i expect everyone here already knows that.

3. i don’t know what the dems in congress are up to. i’m trying to figure that out, and i look to other fdl commenters to help me.

4. when the dems in congress do stupid and immoral things, i feel betrayed – after all they are who i have supported with time and money. i expect better.

does that help explain where i’m coming from? at least a little bit?

Woodhall Hollow @ 145

LS @ 142

He sure did! Wasn’t he also the one who asked them all who signed off on the Silver Star, and they all scrambled and said they really didn’t know; then he puts it up on the screen and it was Bush!! Great moment! I think it was Cummings.

Christ on a raft! I thought I was watching, but I missed that part. It was a mindnumbingly boring and irritating hearing for the most part, so I guess I must have just zoned out.

Mr. LS and I both almost fell over! It was intense.

marymccurnin @ 143

BigMitch @ 140

Gore already has secret service protection.

Yes, but didn’t the two Kennedys? Perhaps since that was a long time ago it does not count.

I doubt Bobby had SS protection. And in those days, there was not so much fear of presidential assassination. Things have changed, esp after the attempts on Ford and Reagan.

KO will be all over T I L L M A N tonight.

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003838.php

Here is Gonzo’s letter. Leahy says not good enough.

Elliott @ 141

Demi @ 137

Kucinich was the only one, imo, who used his time today to any advantage during the Tillman hearing.
I thought Rep. Cummings did a good job, charts and all. Asked good questions.

yes, yes. forgive me for not mentioning him.

You are forgiven. Go and forgettomention no more. *g*

BigMitch @ 140

marymccurnin @ 131

Grim, dark thought. Possible? These thugs have killed 750,000 people without concern and Gore is a true threat. After all these years I still hate thinking like this.

Gore already has secret service protection.

And that helped JFK how???

LS @ 151

Woodhall Hollow @ 145

Christ on a raft! I thought I was watching, but I missed that part. It was a mindnumbingly boring and irritating hearing for the most part, so I guess I must have just zoned out.

Mr. LS and I both almost fell over! It was intense.

We need a youtube moment for that one!

snowbird42 @ 154

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003838.php

Here is Gonzo’s letter. Leahy says not good enough.

Leahy is a REAL Dem.

We do not expect perfection. But we want a President Gore.

Woodhall Hollow @ 157

LS @ 151

Mr. LS and I both almost fell over! It was intense.

We need a youtube moment for that one!

I just looked for one, but I don’t see one yet. It was the best moment of the hearing. IMHO
Their jaws hit the ground.

Woodhall Hollow @ 158

snowbird42 @ 154

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003838.php

Here is Gonzo’s letter. Leahy says not good enough.

;0)

Leahy is a REAL Dem.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 159

We do not expect perfection. But we want a President Gore.

John Edwards is fast becoming my second choice if Al does not run.

Appropos to Bobby Kennedy’s bodyguards, I think Fire-pups will find this amusing:

http://schapira.blogspot.com/2…..-only.html

Oklahoma kiddo @ 159

We do not expect perfection. But we want a President Gore.

Eggzactly!

Run Al!

(If he doesn’t, I will likely vote for Edwards in my state’s primary, which does not really count, unless it is a full on horse race between Obama and Hillary, in which case, I will vote for Hillary.)

Demi @ 155

Elliott @ 141

yes, yes. forgive me for not mentioning him.

You are forgiven. Go and forgettomention no more. *g*

forgettomention never again!

Seriously, the only guy I think of as a Dem is Dennis Kucinich. The rest of them are GOP-lite, every last one of them.

Not quite. Peter Welch, the newly elected jr Senator from Vermont fits the bill. And I am sure there are others. But I agree with the general sentiment!

Hey Woodhall Hollow, you’re naming all of my people. And I have to say, I couldn’t feel more solid about the Vermont representation: as you say above, Bernie Sanders, who is a firebrand and we’ll all be discussing before long; Patrick Leahy, and everyone has had a chance to assess his commitment, sense of purpose, integrity; Peter Welch, another very Progressive guy sharp as can be and ready for trench warfare, if need be. And Jim Jeffords, while we’re at it. Thank you Jim.

David W. Bartoo @ 149

BigMitch, so did JFK and RFK, MLK and
Malcolm did not. I was sixteen when JFK was murdered, it has shaped some of my perpectives.
Life has been made too cheap, especially of late.

They’ve gotten better at this stuff. Ask the Carnahan and Wellstone families.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 161

Woodhall Hollow @ 158

;0)

Leahy is a REAL Dem.

I agree a dem,a statesman and a hero

re Kucinich and abortion: I don’t have a link handy, but my impression from what I’ve read is that he was reluctantly dragged over the line from pure anti-abortion into the “anti abortion but pro choice” twilight zone when his supporters made it clear to him that he had no f*****g chance at the nomination otherwise.

Of course, he has no f*****g chance anyway, so……..whatever.

BigMitch @ 163

Appropos to Bobby Kennedy’s bodyguards, I think Fire-pups will find this amusing:

http://schapira.blogspot.com/2…..-only.html

Big Mitch, you are too funny and clever for your own good. So keep it up!

carolyn urban @ 166

Seriously, the only guy I think of as a Dem is Dennis Kucinich. The rest of them are GOP-lite, every last one of them.

Not quite. Peter Welch, the newly elected jr Senator from Vermont fits the bill. And I am sure there are others. But I agree with the general sentiment!

Hey Woodhall Hollow, you’re naming all of my people. And I have to say, I couldn’t feel more solid about the Vermont representation: as you say above, Bernie Sanders, who is a firebrand and we’ll all be discussing before long; Patrick Leahy, and everyone has had a chance to assess his commitment, sense of purpose, integrity; Peter Welch, another very Progressive guy sharp as can be and ready for trench warfare, if need be. And Jim Jeffords, while we’re at it. Thank you Jim.

Ha! Even though I live in Brooklyn (the birthplace of Bernie), I am a “real” Vermonter. And I cut my political teeth in the People’s Republic of Burlington!

Woodhall Hollow @ 158

snowbird42 @ 154

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003838.php

Here is Gonzo’s letter. Leahy says not good enough.

Leahy is a REAL Dem.

Let’s rememeber this moment, ’cause in days or weeks he is going to something that someone here disagrees with and then they’ll be, like, All Over His Sh*t. Patience and Loyalty is not this site’s strong suit.

BigMitch @ 124

In the last 2 national elections about half the people in the country were Democrats, and half were Republicans. Figure 150 million democrats in this country.

We are going to cover a range of opinions. Hell, our Senate Majority Leader is anti-abortion. Get used to it. One reason that Republicans had such a powerful hold on power is that they understood that someone who disagrees with me 20% of the time is my friend 80% of the time.

To say, as some here have said, that Kucinich is the only true Democrat is silly. Are you saying Dodd is not? Back it up. Maybe you have complaints about Hillary — I know I do. But she is one of us, and she could get a lobodomy and still be better than any Republican.

It bothers me a lot to see how harsh we are on Dems, while thugs get the silence treatment. Someone here said that they don’t trust Rockefeller. (I apologize if this sounds like I am singling out one commenter.) Puhleeeze, make your case, because right now, I don’t get it. At. All.

The next president of the united States will be a politician. That means that he or she will have made some accomodations during a lifetime. Let’s nominate the best winner and then back that person.

Respectfully,off the top of that 300 million Americans,you take about 70 million children who do not vote. Then out of the remaining adults,you look at who is actually registered to vote. THEN,you have to look at who actually shows up at the polls on election day(s). America has a pretty low voter turnout,compared to other voting nations,so,you probably have maybe a quarter of the adults in this country who actually vote. When the pundits and pollsters talk numbers,it’s their samplings,not the entire population they’re giving you numbers for. There aren’t 150 million dems or republicans. The numbers are lots smaller than that.

carolyn urban @ 166

Seriously, the only guy I think of as a Dem is Dennis Kucinich. The rest of them are GOP-lite, every last one of them.

Not quite. Peter Welch, the newly elected jr Senator from Vermont fits the bill. And I am sure there are others. But I agree with the general sentiment!

Bernie Saunders is not a Dem.

Hey Woodhall Hollow, you’re naming all of my people. And I have to say, I couldn’t feel more solid about the Vermont representation: as you say above, Bernie Sanders, who is a firebrand and we’ll all be discussing before long; Patrick Leahy, and everyone has had a chance to assess his commitment, sense of purpose, integrity; Peter Welch, another very Progressive guy sharp as can be and ready for trench warfare, if need be. And Jim Jeffords, while we’re at it. Thank you Jim.

As goes Burlington, so goes France!

Demi @ 172

Woodhall Hollow @ 158

Leahy is a REAL Dem.

Let’s rememeber this moment, ’cause in days or weeks he is going to something that someone here disagrees with and then they’ll be, like, All Over His Sh*t. Patience and Loyalty is not this site’s strong suit.

I agree. Everyone seems to be looking for perfection – not gonna happen. We all know that when push comes to shove, we would vote for a monkey on roller skates to keep a Repug from winning.

BigMitch, you amaze me.

Everyone I’ve encountered here impresses the heck out of me. Grim as things are and may yet become, I am certain that this nation has produced many worthy heirs to the traditions of our founder’s vision.

BigMitch @ 174

carolyn urban @ 166

Bernie Saunders is not a Dem.

Hey Woodhall Hollow, you’re naming all of my people. And I have to say, I couldn’t feel more solid about the Vermont representation: as you say above, Bernie Sanders, who is a firebrand and we’ll all be discussing before long; Patrick Leahy, and everyone has had a chance to assess his commitment, sense of purpose, integrity; Peter Welch, another very Progressive guy sharp as can be and ready for trench warfare, if need be. And Jim Jeffords, while we’re at it. Thank you Jim.

Us Vermonters know he is not a Dem, but he does caucus with them, which is good enough. Unlike the traitorous Liarman.

NEW THREAD!!!!!

David W. Bartoo @ 177

BigMitch, you amaze me.

Everyone I’ve encountered here impresses the heck out of me. Grim as things are and may yet become, I am certain that this nation has produced many worthy heirs to the traditions of our founder’s vision.

You shoulda heard him on Anchorage radio today, articulating for Diane Benson!

I (Heart) Leahy! To Wit:

“I hope he will take that opportunity to clarify the many issues on which he appears not to have been forthcoming and to tell the Senate Judiciary Committee and the American people the whole truth.”

carolyn urban @ 175

As goes Burlington, so goes France!

I still have a button that says that!!!!!!

Backstory, Bernie was elected Mayor as a social*st in Burlington VT, the same year Reagan won the Whitehouse, and Mitterand won in France. Doonesbury did a great cartoon about it.

Ed*ard Teller @ 180

David W. Bartoo @ 177

BigMitch, you amaze me.

Everyone I’ve encountered here impresses the heck out of me. Grim as things are and may yet become, I am certain that this nation has produced many worthy heirs to the traditions of our founder’s vision.

You shoulda heard him on Anchorage radio today, articulating for Diane Benson!

Did he really? Go big Mitch!

Elliott @ 80

BigMitch @ 78

Impeachment, conviction and removal from office of POTUS and VPOTUS –> Speaker of House becomes President.

absolutely!
PELOSI 2007!

Put down the crack pipe and move away from the keyboard!

Demi @ 172

Woodhall Hollow @ 158

Leahy is a REAL Dem.

Let’s rememeber this moment, ’cause in days or weeks he is going to something that someone here disagrees with and then they’ll be, like, All Over His Sh*t. Patience and Loyalty is not this site’s strong suit.

Hmmm.where the hell is that zol*ft?
:-)

Bluetoe @ 183

Elliott @ 80

absolutely!
PELOSI 2007!

Put down the crack pipe and move away from the keyboard!

LOL!

Ah, must be time to put out the cat and meet on a loftier plane.

While there’s much to be said in having the first word, there is singularity in the last.

james @ 108

Gordon, we’re more concerned with how the Dems are looking like a bunch of jackasses with her leadership or lack thereof.

And what’s the symbol of the Democratic party?

The GOP is really not into this democracy thing – and it shows in their discipline.

oddmommy at 133 says-”Kucinich is anti-choice.

That needs to be kept in mind.

I feel we have no heroes today, alas.”

he is NOT anti-choice, he personally is not for abortion, but he believes women should have the choice, that it is up to the woman……BIG difference there……..no offense, but i wish people would quit passing this FALSEHOOD around……..he also believes in sex education, etc, to lower the numbers of pregnancies…….

OT

PW I35 over the mississippi has collapsed. N and Sbound lanes. how frikkin strange is this…

Obama offers strength and hope

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/n…..1obama.htm

In a foreign policy address, he has the guts to call it like it is. The real enemy, the one that attacked us on 9/11, is not in Iraq. It’s in Pakistan. And if Pakistan won’t act we should. BushClinton made the mistake of not eradicating bin Ladin and his crew. It’s time to turn the page already. It’s time to take them out. To eradicate them. They have made a mockery of America. They have gotten away with a Pearl Harbor longer than the Japanese did. They are a two-bit ragtag bag of crap that we have been so stupid as to let take the world by storm. Let’s end it. Let’s vote in someone who will end it. No more of the same.

Obama called it right in arguing we had other priorities than Iraq when it mattered, and he is calling it right now. Clinton and Giuliani are older but both of them have credibility problems. Big time. Obama is someone we can trust. He is smart. He will bring new energy to America, which is starting to feel like Rome before the fall of its empire.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1338294.html is an early report.

Me

I just switched to Republican from being a life long Dem. I am probably best self described as socially liberal, fiscal conservitive. At least it makes the Dem Fund rasing spam stop.