Last week I decided it was time to do a post on inherent contempt. I pulled a ton of research, filled up a 3-ring binder, highlighted all sorts of relevant passages, and blocked out some time on Sunday to write.
Then on Saturday, a Rutgers professor named Frank Askin beat me to it. You should go read his article, it really is a clear and authoritative explanation: Congress’ Power To Compel.
However, I would like to point out that the blogosphere has been far ahead of the MSM when it comes to this. As far back as March of this year, Kagro X had a diary up at Daily Kos where he advocated “Dusting off Inherent Contempt.“
P. Lukasiak at thenexthurrah also provided a really heads up insight:
p.lukasiak | July 20, 2007 at 09:42
The only place that Harriet can be held will be in local DC jails, because Congress controls DC, while Bush controls federal prisons. And procedurally, it is important that Miers be kept completely outside the Federal justice system.
Cited in Kagro X’s diary is a link to a PDF of a wonderful “how to” book prepared by the Congressional Research Service: CRS Report for Congress (PDF).
It is literally a manual on methods of Congressional Oversight. I printed it out for future reference. It is a goldmine and explains just what your Congressional representatives can and cannot do. Please note, that the House and Senate have different paths when it comes to the exercise of contempt powers.
Anywhooo, for those who haven’t the time to click through all these links and read all these long entries, the crib notes version is this:
If Harriet Miers continues in her lawless disregard of regularly issued legal process (the subpoena) the House can have the Sgt. at Arms arrest her and bring her to the well of the floor of the House where she will receive a trial –IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ITSELF– and if found guilty of contempt at that trial she can be held in jail as a civil contemnor until the first of two triggering events: 1) she purges herself of her contempt (like Judy Miller, she would “hold the keys to her own jail cell” and would be released as soon as she agreed to testify fully and truthfully) or 2) the term of the Congress which imprisoned her expired.
Trial in the legislative branch is cumbersome and time consuming, which is why Congress, some many years ago, went to the easier system of having the US Attorney for DC do the prosecution.
Nonetheless, the facts of the Miers contempt are pretty clear cut and easy to understand, so the actual presentation of evidence need not take more than a day or two.
Related posts:
- Please Welcome California Lt. Governor John Garamendi, Candidate for US House of Representatives, CA-10
- Biotech Industry Needs 42 Representatives to Try to Refute Jane Hamsher
- White House Contempt for Bloggers and “Left of the Left” is a Pattern
- “They’re all alike”
- Mark-Ups on House Health Bill to Resume Next Week
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zed!
Is there any chance this will be done?
Sounds good to me.
Is there still a cell in the sub-sub-basement of the Capitol for contemnors?
Let’s bring her to justice.
Or I suppose you could take her across the street and lock her in Justice Thomas’ chambers. That’s a space that hasn’t been put to good use for a very long time.
Just do it.
she can be held in jail as a civil contemnor until the first of two triggering events: 1) she purges herself of her contempt
what kind of purgery is this?
LHP — Any ideas how to light a fire under Conyers to proceed with inherent contempt?
The view in this house is that the time for impeachment has arrived.
AP – President Bush is expected to claim executive privilege to prevent two more White House aides from testifying before Congress about the firings of federal prosecutors.
ET — are you here?
Ummm…first, the Congress would have to get their hands on them. I suspect the FBI or Secret Service or both Capital Police away from them. It might be interesting theater though.
Conviction requires only a simple majority?
So Rove will likely ignore his subpoena as well. Wouldn’t it be nice if Rove had his behind hauled into a DC jail along with Meirs and Bolton?!
I don’t think the DC jail system has any country club facilities. Might be a new learning experience for HM, one that would guarantee she “purges”.
I thought I read somewhere that there were cells in the basement of the Capitol? With slop jars?
I’d get a real giggle out of seeing Meirs, Bolton and Rove there…
It is cumbersome and time consuming, but they need to do it in the name of general deterence. They do it once, let her cool in jail for a week or so and this nonsense will stop.
Otherwise, you might as well kiss our constitutional republic goodbye.
ET on local radio right now.
We wish Senator Clinton would have more to say about all this Bush administration coverup and lying business. Senator: This is not the time to play it safe.
Mr. Gore. Now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of the party.
lhp–
Thanks a big bunch for a great summary and great links! The WH has thrown down the gauntlet. Now is the time for Congress to step up to the plate, or kiss our Republic goodbye.
Bob in HI
PS– I’ve updated the Prime the Pump workspace, especially with all the new material for impeaching Gonzales.
E.T.
I was on hold, when I heard your voice.
Good job.
(You said, KLEF when you mean KUDO.)
House Democrats really have no excuse for not doing this.
To do nothing about Miers’ clear act of contempt would only encourage the White House to commit additional crimes in ignoring Congressional oversight.
Hey lhp. Greetings all from chicago.
Brisingamen @ 16
time to re-enact the ending of The “Cask of Amontillado”
looseheadprop,
My only problem with Harriet being charged with Inherent Contempt is that she presents a sympathetic figure as the “wee, little woman getting beaten up by those big Congressional bullies.”
Rather, take her to the regular courts as I believe (and you know IANAL), she presents a far weaker case for Executive Privilege both as a private citizen AND a former WH Counsel (thanking Newt and his machinations against Clinton for this).
Instead, use Josh Bolten for the Inherent Contempt case since he’s just as much in contempt as the WH CoS and the visuals are far more compelling.
My $.02
phred @ 9
Inherent contempt was largely abandoned after the Teapot dome scandal becasue the thought was that trial before the full House was too time consuming and disruptive. That’s why they went to the system of referring contemts to the USAO DC, to get that job off thier plates.
However, it’s not Conyers, it’s Pleosi that is the problem.
Mitch?
Book’em Danno!
worth a look -
TPMtv: Dick Cheney Lying Liar Edition
Josh Marshall
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
Finally got Al Gore’s book “The Assault on Reason” from the library (many people had all the copies borrowed). None of this crap is a surprise to him.
Gore ‘08!!!
BigMitch @ 22
Whatever – you have to call KLEF to get to KUDO – same owners…
Hey, ET, you stole my thunder.
were you listening to the show on the computer stream?
BigMitch @ 33
She’s still backstabbing Diane Benson. Your turn, amigo.
BigMitch @ 34
No, I’ve got a really long string and a couple of Campbell Soup cans.
looseheadprop @ 27
If it is Conyers committee that Miers is in contempt of, why can’t he begin contempt proceedings? Perhaps this is spelled out in your links, which at the moment, I don’t have time to read (tonight I will though).
I have to say I am getting good and tired of Pelosi being the road block.
she is talking about you now. “This is what I want to know. Jake vs. Diane: Where do you go? Taking calls”
punaise @ 25
That’s just sick.
I like it. But it’s sick.
egregious @ 24
I hear there was an I phone for your B-day. Lucky you
any advice?
Ed*ard Teller @ 36
OOOOOO-snarkalious.
LibertyLee @ 12
US Marshall’s serve the subpoenas. the “arrests” are done by the House Sgt at Arms, but I think he would employ the services of the Marshalls for that as well.
If they wait too long the term will end very shortly after they imprison her. Big whoop. The only upside would be if they promised her that if she doesn’t correct the contempt, then they will do it all again at the START of the next Congress and she can look forward to 2 years in jail.
BigMitch @ 42
The truth always helps. Shannon’s just muddying the waters here.
dakine01 @ 26
Problem is the one to take her to regular court is the USA DC, and Bush has forbidden him to do that. So, no help there–unless the USA has a brass set of gonads and decides that unreviewable prosecutorial discretion is just that–unreviewable.
The committee has already voted out a contempt citation, so it is up to Pelosi effectively as to what form of remedy shall be voted on the floor. Finding a place to ice Miers and/or Bolten is not particularly any problem.
bmaz @ 48
So I take it when the committee votes for “contempt”, Pelosi is the one who decides which kind of contempt?
Since she will be in the State of Texas – can she be extradited to DC ?
looseheadprop @ 27
are you sure about this lhp?
not that i’m doubting you… it’s just that i want to be sure before going ballistic.
Hey Folks,
In November of 06 I was very hopeful that this administration would be brought to its knees now I’m not so hopeful. Not being a lawyer I have had to read and re-read many well written and informative articles and posts here to try and understand what has happened. Much as I would love to see impeachment I’m afraid time is running out. The abuses our constitution have been allowed to snowball out of control. I pray its not too late but sure seems like it.
phred @ 38
Conyers Committee would vote to hold in contempt, then a resolution would go to the full House and be voted on there.
If the resolution passed, the contemnor (it doesn’t have to be Harriet, it could be Rove, he let them subpeona Cheney and do it with him–THAT would not have a sympathy factor)would be arrested and brought to the well of the chamber for trial before the full body.
If found guilty by the full house, the contemnor would be imprisoned (or suffer some other penalty like fines) until the expiration of the Congress that found that person in contempt.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 19
Questions for the Dem Presidential candidates:
Do you believe it is the proper use of the classification system to hide illegal, unethical, or embarrassing acts by the government or its officers? They must say “no” so the followup question is: In the spirit of your answer will you promise the American people to declassify ALL government secrets that cover up illegal, unethical, or embarrassing actions and forswear classifying any such actions by the government or its officers under your Administration?
looseheadprop @ 47
But that’s when it would go into the regular courts with Congress suing not only the WH but the DoJ to do the work as ordered by the Congress wouldn’t it? It appears obvious that the WH wants to force it into the courts so lets oblige them.
Praedor Atrebates @ 45
Yep, but doen’t this Congress go until 2008? Thats a healthy amount of time in pokey
Below are links to more CRS reports. I’ve been trying to read through these, in addition to the manual linked to in the post, but some of the finer points escape me. For example, if the Senate holds inherent contempt hearings, they say the Presisent of the Senate presides. That would be Cheney? That does not sound good. Can other people be President of rhe Senate for purposes of a hearing?
Why not skip anything that involves the DOJ or the courts and go straight to direct Congressional powers? The DOJ will either delay or obstruct. there are places in the judiciary that are wingnut dominated, especially around DC. I’ve seen a couple of polls saying the public supports the Congressional DOJ investigations, one said 70% of public and almost half of Republicans in favor. It would be news the media would have to cover. It would be a good and salutary process, if conducted fairly and with dignity and purpose. The public would get to watch George Will and David Brooks and Brit Hume go incoherently batshit over it. Which might be a good thing, in these circumstances -their ravings might be so loopy and deranged and insulting that they would discredit themselves for all but the the 25% dead ender wingnuts.
Anyway, links below. Any posts by the legal mavens at FDL, or elsewhere, explicating some of the finer points of the process would be greatly appreciated.
New CRS report on inherent contempt proceedings
http://www.scotusblog.com/mova…..report.pdf
Older CRS report on Congressional investigations and subpoena and contempt power
http://www.senate.gov/referenc…..L31836.pdf
Pelosi won’t impeach.
Pelosi and Reid caved on Iraq $$.
Overnighter wasn’t really effective.
Pelosi and Reid are going to go along with WH on FISA.
Congress is going to go ahead with recess.
Pelosi prides herself on being “dignified”. I highly doubt she would agree to physically restrain someone, especially Harriet Miers.
I hope she proves me wrong.
Big Mitch is kicking some serious AM Talk Radio butt in Anchorage right here! He’s fighting for Diane Benson and progressive issues bigtime.
looseheadprop @ 53
Cheney held in the DC jails in contempt of Congress at the mercy of the House… I’m gonna enjoy that mental picture for the rest of the afternoon…
How did I do, Phil?
LHP – I could be wrong on this, but I don’t think it is the US Marshalls that would assist, they are part of the DOJ. It is my understanding that the Capitol Police Dept. would be the backup; which should work out fine as Terry Gainer, the Sergeant at Arms for Senate used to be head of the Capitop PD, and Livengood, the Sergeant at Arms of the House is very friendly with them as well.
bmaz @ 48
Actually, I kinda like P. Luk’s idea of the DC jails. DC is directly governed by Congress. IIRC the executive branch does not have any role–someone correct me if I am wrong onthat point.
And DC jails have reputation of being vary scary places.
I think the House should cite Meirs for inherent contempt. A Federal Judge and/or SCOTUS would declare the whole process un-Constitutional in the post 9/11 USA..end of story. To paraphrase Steven Breyer, “Never have so few undone so much law in so short a time”. Legal precedent means nothing to the Roberts’ Court.
Is there any REASON to think that the Dems will actually do ANYTHING? Or is it just our eternal Hope that’s at play. I mean are the conditions right yet? What EVIDENCE do we have that suggests courage or decisive action on the part of Dem ‘Leadership’? Just wonderin’
just hopin’. Well, guess there’s the Diebold
er ballot box . . .
Ed*ard Teller @ 59
Gee, I missed my chance to defend Lieberman, eh?
phred @ 49
Phred – See LHP@53; I think that answers your question pretty much; however, the first step of contempt being voted out of committee has already occurred.
phred @ 49
If you mean civil contempt as opposed to crimainl contempt–the House can only do civil contempt. Civil contempt is the kind suffered by Susan McDougal and Judy Miller, where as soon as they comply with the subpoena–they get out, or the fines cease to accumulate.
Criminal contempt gets you a fixed jail term or fine regardless of whether you cooperate.
That kind of contempt is more often used for misbehavior in court (yelling at hte judge for example)
selise @ 51
Conyer’s Committee already voted to find contempt. However, Pelosi controls what gets to the floor for a vote.
So, if you want to liht a fire under somebody, it’s Pelosi b/c she is the next step in the process. Conyers has done his part for now
woo hoo. lhp! didnt even realize you were here (I was hanging around downstairs not paying attention as usual.) I just love your stuff! Gotta go read now. brb.
Perhaps the Speaker needs to spell out exactly what is her perception of the Democratic agenda. They used to call these things position papers. Before K-Street got a strangle hold on both parties.
BigMitch @ 60
You kicked some serious butt. She painted me as a Benson employee, which I am NOT, but she had no way of knowing where you’re coming from. She really doesn’t know Jake like I know Jake, that’s for sure. The most anti-Diane thing she’s trying to create is that Diane hasn’t proven herself because she didn’t have to debate major Dems ’cause they wouldn’t run against Don, and she didn’t prove herself against Don ’cause he wouldn’t show up to debate her. WTF?!
looseheadprop @ 63
Oh no, you are absolutely right. There are a couple of DC jail facilities that could be used if they cannot unearth the dank cell in the basement of the Congress/Capitol. Cask of Amantillado indeed.
LHP! OT: Remember “Blank” from TPM? Kos is going nuts on it today on at least 2 diaries that made it to the top of the rec. list.
bmaz @ 67
Yep, it did, our comments crossed in the mail — thanks bmaz
whoa. aren’t we gonna get to see yours? I bet it is much snarkier!
Praedor Atrebates @ 54
Actually, the statues relating to classifiaction expressly forbid classifying a document to cover something up.
Mary (AkA MAry 4) has written extensiely on this topic inthe comment threads
looseheadprop @ 46
But you could use Miers to test USA resolve and perhaps set up some other action (like impeachment of the USA, just to demonstrate Congressional power and resolve). Right now, she’s relatively unimportant, and you can go back and get her with inherent contempt if the USA refuses to act.
But use the inherent contempt on Josh Bolten, Rove, and others currently in Bush’s outer office. Strip away Bush’s supporters and he’ll collapse more quickly.
LibertyLee @ 12
Did you say “hands”? Josh Bolten has a special relationship with KommanderGuy’s hands.
____________________
He keeps a copy of the best-selling children’s book Walter the Farting Dog on his office’s coffee table. His wall collection of Bush photos, typical throughout the White House complex, is unique. The pictures focus exclusively on Bush’s hands at key moments in his presidency. Not a single photo of Bush’s face can be found. “Josh is extremely eclectic,” explained Card. “His knowledge base is much, much broader than just policy or budget numbers.”
dakine01 @ 55
You mean bring a mandamus action? Oh,that’s a tough row to hoe
OT or is it?
The Repugs threaten to shut down Congress because of a wingnut judge…
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0801.html
oh heck, I just gotta share this (and it’s actually on topic!):
“On March 26, 1848, the Senate arrested a journalist and imprisoned him in a Capitol committee room.
(snip)
Under questioning, Nugent refused to disclose his sources to Senate investigators, saying only that in this instance they were neither senators nor Senate officers. The frustrated investigating committee thereupon ordered him to be arrested and confined to one of the Senate’s committee rooms. As the Herald retaliated by publishing the names of the Senate’s most cooperative leakers, Nugent spent his captivity in comfort, receiving a doubled salary while issuing his regular columns under the dateline “Custody of the Sergeant at Arms.” Each evening he accompanied the sergeant at arms to that officer’s home for a good meal and a comfortable night’s sleep. From time to time, the full Senate summoned Nugent to answer questions, but always without success. After a month, the Senate realized the futility of further incarceration and released its prisoner on the face-saving grounds of protecting his health. Who actually leaked the treaty? The historical evidence points to Secretary of State Buchanan.”
Source: U.S. Senate.gov
Ed*ard Teller @ 72
I think the best thing was to turn the debate from “who is a better democrat” to “who thinks Bush is a criminal.”
wesgpc @ 57
Both Senate and House have inherent contempt poweers. However, they are not identical. In either case, exercise of inherent contempt requires a trial of the contemnor by the full body (either house).
They don’t need DOJ or the courts to do this.
Throw her in the slammer!
looseheadprop @ 68
Ok, let me try this again, ’cause I thought I understood what I was talking about, but perhaps I don’t.
In civil contempt there seems to be two flavors: “inherent” which is tried in the House without involving the DoJ or the executive branch in any way, and “?” which goes through DoJ
What is the name that goes where the “?” is? And does Pelosi decide which to choose or does she only control whether or not there is a vote (but other Reps could offer up either version to vote on)?
So if Clusterfuck pardons Harriet for contempt– are we dead in the water?
Hey,hey, hey now. don’t start down the path of any writ of mandamus,; whether explaining it (good luck) or implementing it (worse still).
phred @ 60
It’s a fun fantasy. I great metnal image. Sadly, I doubt Madame Speaker has a the same taste in daydreams
nonplussed @ 13
in the House. 60 votes in the Senate. that’s why the House hearings are necessary. plus, that’s where impeachment begins.
Senator Clinton: take off the gloves. Obama is not your problem. The GOP and the progressives are.
Can the house send it’s officer to Texas to bag Harriet?
Brisingamen @ 16
a locked door but no potty. maybe she can borrow some diapers from Vitter, eh?
looseheadprop @ 76
Thanks. So…it goes to ONE question rather than two: Since it is illegal by law to classify actions as part of a cover-up, will you promise the American people that you will declassify ALL classified information by ALL previous Administrations that involved illegal or unethical acts?
It is impossible to believe that ANY classified item that involves an illegal, unethical, etc, act was NOT done to hide those in the dark. It needs to be made expressly clear that the classification system cannot be used in any way, shape, or form on illegal or unethical actions. “National Security” interests must NEVER EVER trump the right of the People to know when their government violates the law or the Constitution. So…I want declassification of ALL documents and records having to do with actions such as Iran-Contra, for instance, torture, extraordinary rendition, violations of the Geneva Conventions or the Conventions Against Torture, Abuse, and Inhumane Treatment, etc. ANYTHING that involves these are inherently illegal and unethical acts and must be published openly and fully.
I also feel that the statutes need “updating” to limit classification to no more than 20 years. At the 20-year point it automatically is declassified except in cases of still current intel means or methods (yeah, right, 20 years later still current…). As for military capabilities…there is NO technology worth a shit or worthy of classification after 20 years.
My question: is there any reason to wait at all the start the Congressional process. It is not part of the regular judicial system. It is alterative process. Why should any additional attempts be made to go through the courts via DOJ action after the DOJ has demonsrtrated bad faith and evidence of engaging in obstruction?
The only objection I can think of is the corporate media will go absolutely insane. There will be endless screeching about mob rule, and lurid predictions of Waxman, Conyers and Leahey leading mobs of deranged hippies and biker gangs rampaging through the suburbs, debaucing the women, kicking the dogs and taking peoples’s stuff, with Frank and Rangel setting the guillotine in some undisclosed location.
But with 70% of the public in favor, and an unusual proceedure that has not been used in almost 75 years, I think people will follow it closely. It would be an implicit declaration of a serious constitutional crisis, that alos indicates willingess to lead and take constructive action. The voters will judge for themselves whether it is necessary and proper. Right?
Why shouldn’t they just announce that what part of the DOJ is not too dysfucntional, is too corrupt to use for Congressional investigations, then get cracking on Congress doing something directly itself?
rwcole @ 91
Would Governor Perry allow extradition?
What size figurative fire do we have to light under Pelosi for her to notice that she’s going to get burned as long as she’s sitting on this? It isn’t like we’re not letting her hear about what the options are, and what can be done. Does her staff even pass this stuff on, or is it all roundfiled as more DFH trash?
rwcole @ 92
That would be extraordinary. And by the way, the term for sending a prisoner from one state to another is “rendition.”
Extraordinary rendition. Not just for foreigners anymore.
looseheadprop @ 27
I should think that Nancy would be showing some severe disrespect to Chairman Conyers if she declined to pursue inherent contempt. What if it were the other way around?
Does Cheney have to preside in the Senate? These documents don’t provide glossaries for clueless laymen like me.
looseheadprop @ 68
thank you lhp.
just called the speaker’s dc office. the person who answered the phone said he didn’t think anything would be done until after the august recess. tried to frame my concern as part of an overall frustration with the house for not providing effective oversight of the administration.
i also left a voice mail.
bmaz @ 62
I actually don’t know the answer to this and have not been able to find it in my research. I DO KNOW, because Waxman said so this morning that the US Marshal’s Service is serving HOC’s subpoenas.
Also, the Marshalls Service is a funny enitity. They take direction from the courts more so than from Justice, though I fully recognize that they are a component of DOJ and their budget is carried on DOJ’s books.
However, their main function is to serve as the strong arm of the courts. For example, they transport defendants in custody, arrest fugitives on a court issued fugitive warrant, execute court orders.
They also do other odd jobs like provide body guard services to USA’s.
P J Evans @ 96
Tell her for every day she does not change her mind you will donate $1 to Cindy Shaheen
Great series from TalkLeft:
Why Inherent Contempt (Parts I, II, and III)
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/7/20/185912/487
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/7/21/19407/3867
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/7/22/181455/603
by BigTentDemocrat
Links to many issues of the day:
http://www.talkleft.com/section/lawrelated
# July 30, 2007 – Debate on Executive Privilege
# July 29, 2007 – What Was the Data Mining Dispute About?
# July 29, 2007 – The Latest On Gonzales
# July 28, 2007 – Impeach Gonzales
# July 27, 2007 – WH Right Blogger Conference Call On Executive Privilege
# July 26, 2007 – Why Did Gonzales Answer The Questions?
# July 26, 2007 – FBI Director Contradicts Gonzales; Dem Senators Call For Special Prosecutor
# July 26, 2007 – Perjury
# July 25, 2007 – On Constitutional Remedies
# July 25, 2007 – Document Contradicts Gonzales Testimony
# July 25, 2007 – The WH Fighting On Bad Ground On Executive Privilege
# July 25, 2007 – House Judiciary Committee Votes Out Contempt Citations Against Meirs, Bolten
# July 24, 2007 – More From CRS On Inherent Contempt
# July 24, 2007 – CRS Report on Congressional Contempt Power
# July 24, 2007 – Surprise! Gonzales Caught In Another Fib
# July 24, 2007 – Impeach Gonzales
# July 22, 2007 – Why Inherent Contempt III
# July 21, 2007 – Cockfighting And The First Amendment?
# July 21, 2007 – NYTimes Editorial Discusses Inherent Contempt
# July 20, 2007 – Why Inherent Contempt
# July 20, 2007 – Fair Pay
# July 20, 2007 – Inviting Inherent Contempt
# July 19, 2007 – Bar Exam Crunch Time : Suggestions Welcome
# July 14, 2007 – Study Says Public Defenders Do Better Than CJA Lawyers
# July 12, 2007 – On Constitutional Argument
# July 10, 2007 – Miers To Invoke Executive Privilege
# July 09, 2007 – More On Claiming Executive Privilege
# July 08, 2007 – Who Can Assert Executive Privilege?
# July 08, 2007 – The Congressional Subpoena Power: How It Is Enforced
# July 02, 2007 – Bush Administration: Restore The Binding Nature of Sentencing Guidelines
My undestanding is that any punishement that can be imposed is limited to the remaining term of Congress, so jail time, or any other sanction, is mainly a stick to get people to cooperate. Right?
punaise @ 8
Nah, too aisey, Dollink!
dakine01 @ 26
agree and raise you my 2 cents. Harriet’s case is cut and dried. Bolten’s case can easily get tied up in the courts. Inherent contempt does away with all the smoke and mirrors the Admin and a Bushie judge could use to mess that up.
Pelosi is a rumor in her own mind. She’s all about south sea pearls and protocol.
Perhaps starstruck.
Meanwhile the 4th amendment is about to go bye-bye, and it will be Pelosi and Reid’s fault. What will we have left?
I just don’t get it.
Yes. they can likely retrieve her from Texas; could be a fairly sticky wicket doing so if the fight were on though. All kinds of potential issues could come into play, such as federal preemption versus state’s rights, interpretation of the Uniform Extradition Act, whether the Sergeant of Arms is a valid member of the compact (alone or through the DC PD), etc.
LS @ 74
You know, I had printed out those comments, and re-read them this AM.
I think they may be two different posters. The first 3 or so long comments are perfectly rational and make perfect sense.
It’s not till the later comments, with the “google this” and “google that” and the refernces to unrelated accounting standards and crazy stuff about the “president’s auditors” that it stops being feasible.
I thnk ther may have been a copycat poster later in that thread.
Where is Gonzo’s letter???
Ed*ard Teller @ 71
sorry i missed it, but wanted to give you some appause anyway. clapping….
looseheadprop @ 40
Yea I’m in deep lust for my iPhone. New toy!!
punaise is not being helpful!
Whoever can preside over the hearings, need to figure out a way to keep punaise off the list.
Offer a bounty for Harriet and allow private bounty hunters to capture her and bring her ass in.
looseheadprop @ 109
They were noticing that over at Kos too. They think that part is a woman and part is a man, and the poster “itself” wrote that it noticed it was picked up on Kos, and said that “other” blank posters were also being quoted.
LHP@101 – Yeah I am not positive either; but I looked into this at some point a while back as a result of a discussion we were having at TNH, and what I stated was the conclusion I came up with. Whether it is right or not, eh I don’t know for sure; but I felt pretty comfortable at the time…. (That is a pretty big fwiw isn’t it?)
Congress should appropriate money to provide itself with a jail and a police force.
selise @ 100
Yeah, the Contempt of Congress isn’t pressing but gutting the Constitution and getting suckered again by BushCo to give him what he wants on FISA IS pressing…
Those in charge, both sides of the aisle, are on the same side: against We the People, against freedom, and against the Constitution.
BigMitch @ 97
Clamp the ironies on her, Marshall!
rwcole @ 117
Hey, maybe Blackwater needs some new business! Now that would be sweet irony wouldn’t it?
Maybe Specter is holding a Gonzo resignation letter as leverage in exchange for Miers, Bolten, and Rove behind doors testimony.
bmaz @ 61
yes, there is a longstanding relationship between the DC Police, the Capitol Police and the Sgt at Arms, who can further deputize as many officers as he needs.
rwcole @ 86
He can’t do it. EX PARTE GROSSMAN, 267 U.S. 87 (1925)
rwcole @ 114
Terrible television having “Dog” kick in her door.
Pray she is not doing real estate transaction law in Paraguay – no extradition
Someone needs to connect with Mr. and Ms. America.
LS @ 116
looseheadprop @ 109
LS @ 74
It’s pretty clear that there’s more than one person writing those, but why they can’t use an alias (’Deep Modem’ has been suggested) I don’t know. Some of the comments look like just a drive-by anonymous (like the Harry Potter one). They go back a ways, though. I was going to sit down this evening and put them in chronological order, just to see if I can get anything out of them. (Sure like to see the IPs on them, though!)
On March 31, 2007, I wrote here:
For that reason, Congress may want to consider alternative means of coercing her testimony. As we all know, there is the immunity route.
There’s also another route. Congress can direct the Sergeant at Arms to arrest her, and let her fight her way out of jail in court. They may not have covered that at Regent Law School.
Send Janet Reno to bring her flabby ass in!
TiredFed @ 81
Loved that! VEry funny.
wesgpc @ 104
Correct
NMvoiceofreason @ 123
Yeah, the days when precedent meant something with SCOTUS opinions. If Scalia wasn’t on the Court at the time, he will find a way to bully thru a decision in favor of the Bushies.
wesgpc @ 113
uh-oh…. :~)
P J Evans @ 127
Wouldn’t TPM have the IP’s?
TiredFed @ 123
I have to admit, I really don’t have a good understanding of how those agencies interact–legally. You know,who does what
Impeaching the Attorney General
Yesterday I added my name to Rep. Inslee’s resolution (H.RES.589) to investigate whether Attorney General Gonzales should be impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors. I am a member of the House Judiciary Committee, which is the Committee that prepares articles of impeachment.
Steve Cohen
Member of Congress
Tennessee’s 9th District
From a short diary at KOS.
Who exactly is Mr. Lieberman’s base?
Didn’t Harriet take a job in D.C.?
TiredFed @ 92
Riiiiight.
Did you see the idiot Republicans are talking another government shut-down? Guess they don’t remember what that did to the District area economy last time. Sheesh.
Millineryman @ 134
Someone get Pelosi on the ball about this!
A question. If the Dems do not adequately
rise to the occassion, then what recourse have we? Perhaps a Constitutional Convention? If politicians, for the most part will not stand for what is needful, does it not fall upon the
people? Maybe we should consider strategies to
respond to a worst-case scenario. I think we must hang together on this . . .
Praedor Atrebates @ 119
haha.
went i was told it would be after the august recess before the house would have time to take up the matter of contempt… i replied, with something like – i hope that means there also won’t be time to thoughtlessly give bush more spying powers by revising fisa at his request before he’s even told the american people what he’s already doing.
the response was something like – oh, i wouldn’t know about that.
sigh.
speaker pelosi’s dc office number is: (202) 225-4965
Sally @ 137
More than likely but it is a short distance to the border.
P J Evans @ 127
What I did was cut and paste them into a word Doc and then I read them in order.
David W. Bartoo @ 139
Is it filibusterable??
Get Tough @ 138
Plus, there is no conflict of interest on her part with this. If he advocates impeachment of the Bushies, she is next in line. Abu? No conflict. The PERFECT situation for Pelosi to do some good, rally the dems and the nation behind the democrat’s causes, and actually get something done with all of these hearings. Because any more hearings, and the Bushies talking point about the “Do-Nothing” Congress will start to get legs with the public.
Wapiti @ 77
from what I’ve read, Jeff Taylor has no choice but to refer the contempt citation to the grand jury. none. regardless of what the DOJ has said. if he refuses, he can be fired for failing to faithfully execute the law (aka impeached).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 135
Lieberman.
Goopers say that if dems don’t give Bush’s fascist nominee for a court of appeals a vote in the full senate, they’ll shut the government down….
GOOD–I hate that government- shut her down!!!
selise @ 140
We be foooked.
TiredFed @ 145
But the guy who gets to fire him (Bush) is the same guy who ordered him no to do it. See the problem?
looseheadprop @ 79
huh? there’s no prosecutorial discretion involved here. the law says the USA “shall” refer the matter. I see no room for discretion. gonna go look up some stuff now. brb.
Silver Fox @ 141, there’s always Paraguay. too. That place will be filling up if any of the villains in this Know-Nothing administration can remember/recall it’s there.
rwcole @ 147
If the Goopers are advocating shutting down Congress, Pelosi and the Democrats MUST START saying over and over again that the Bushies want to shut down Congress because they are hiding something. This MUST happen! C’mon!
When it really does seem a line must be drawn the fact that we have The New Best Congress Money Can Buy (by The Lobby!) kicks in.
Waxman is not dumb: he knew from last time to get any sort of answers he had to have those clowns in today one by one. He knows damn well to ask direct questions, like “Why… ?” “How…?” “Who…? and when he got bs for answers, how to say “General, you are lying!” or “General, are you so stupid?” He wussed it!
Tillman, because of Bush’s PR when he went to Afghanistan and when he died, could have been the straw that winkled ‘em out.
Reid and Pelosi will continue to cave, bought and paid for!
If we sould be so lucky and “Inherent Contempt” arrests are made, Harriet would not stand out if they were all arrested at once.
I am sure one of you clevers told us months ago there are indeed old-fashioned slop bucket cells in the Capitol.
Those larger cojones of Leahy? A big fuss by Conyers?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 135
Glaxo SmithKline, Pfizer, Lilly…
Nothins gonna happen in the next 18 months- but it may be entertaining nonetheless.
Get Tough @ 138
Perhaps the tide has to push her. If there is enough of a push she may have no choice. I doubt she wants to be cast as obstructionist in her own party and someone who protects people who abuse power. After all her legacy as the first woman Speaker is at stake.
rwcole @ 147
Please dear Goddess, let Harry call their bluff.
They last time they shut Congress down, it bit them in the ass.
Oh and the contrast, Harry and the dems keep the Seante working all night vs, Goopers refusing to work at all.
YES YES YES \
ahem, (blushing) sorry, it was like that Meg Ryan deli scene in “when Harty met Sally”
Thought Lieberman worked for the insurance industry- and of course the military/industrial complex, not to mention Israel.
in possible defense of speaker pelosi – christy has written that she doesn’t think pelosi has the votes for comtempt, and that is why it is delayed until after august recess.
don’t know if christy is guessing or has inside info….
Speaker Pelosi can always change her mind about impeachment–that’s a woman’s perogative.
The bottom-line question for us in this house is ‘are we any better off (safer, closer to achieving justice, etc.) now than we were before the last elections?’
David W. Bartoo @ 139
A worst-case scenario? Okay.
The Nightmare Scenario, part 1.
The Nightmare Scenario, part 2.
The Nightmare Scenario, part 3.
You did ask.
rwcole @ 158
And Big Pharma.
/blockquote>TiredFed @ 150
If a U.S. attorney can, as has frequently been remarked, “get an indictment against a ham sandwich,” certainly, a U.S. attorney can get a ‘no true bill’ vs. a senior White House staff member.
Bonus trivia question: What is the technical term for a “no true bill?”
Answer: an “ignoramus” Seriously.
The only means to hold any of these thugs accountable is to bring impeachment proceedings.
They will simply delay, stall, ignore, defy, block, muddle, confuse, contradict and simply never ever ever act like a stand up person. They simply have contempt for anyone who questions anything they have done. Just look at how the Tillman hearing went. It’s always the same.
If congress won’t draw up impeachment articles against these thugs… this talk is all pissing in the wind. They are just laughing at all these procedures and formality.
I think it is not past them to stage another so called terror attack in this country and call off elections until THEY investigate and catch the perps like they did OBL.
They are simply now in a testing phase to see how compliant the people and the congress is.
Obviously the top military brass are in on the fascist push… they seem to have no problem with prosecuting an obviously illegal war. They have dragged out O’Hanlon and his sidekick Pollack to do a war dog and pony show.
The people may want out of Irak, but they are not ready to take to the streets.
We’re seriously f*cked.
newtonusr @ 155
insurance companies, and credit card companies, as well.
TiredFed @ 150
see page 51, footnote #318 of the contempt report. Conyers Contempt Report oh and the last few paragraphs above (same page).
I heard some speculation somewhere (Air America, perhaps) that the reason Pelosi was waiting until after the recess was that Jeffery Taylor’s interim term exipres in Sept and that he absolutely cannot serve as a USA after that. Don’t know what would happen, though.
bmaz says
August 1st, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Hey,hey, hey now. don’t start down the path of any writ of mandamus,; whether explaining it (good luck) or implementing it (worse still).
But why not? It is not that hard to explain it (DOJ either has or does not have the discretion to blow off the Congress). Implementing it is a bit of a challenge, but it could make for interesting political theater no matter the result – White House declares it is above the law, courts [do not] allow it to get away with it – either way it turns out is good for the Dems, and can be corrected by statute in any case.
99% of mandamus complaints I have heard of are complete horse feces. It is the writ of last resort, it seems. Still, it might be the right remedy here, both legally and politically.
rwcole @ 147
Do remember that when they say “government shut-down” it means:
Social Security offices closed — no one can apply for benefits, no checks get cut for beneficiaries.
National Parks closed. No camping, no rangers, nada.
Smithsonian — closed.
In areas that have a lot of Federal employees, the economy will take a hit.
Shut-down IF it happens would be Midnight, September 30, 2007.
This did not work out well the last time the Republicans tried it, I can’t figure out why they’d do it again.
rwcole @ 87
not with inherent contempt. can’t touch this.
Yeah, like these idiot Dems will do ANYTHING for their country. I am absolutely DISCUSTED with Nancy and her ‘off the table’ bullshit!!! Jesus H. Freeking Christ, lady, the republic is dyin’ here and you’re playing house with the enemy. Get on with it. Impeachment is the ONLY OPTION. It’s the only thing that MIGHT PREVENT NUCLEAR WAR. All these politicians live in a beltway bubble. They don’t see anything these Republicans are doing. Hell, I give up.
My wish is that Deepmodem is a whistleblower and that there is some kind of other investigation of the Admin. going on and that they are caught. My wish is that Pelosi and Reid are aware of it and that everything will be okay in the end.
I can wish can’t I?
Brisingamen @ 169
If you do not learn history, you are doomed to repeat it. They never learn.
rwcole @ 91
yup.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 162
no(*).
but i’m still hoping that will change.
* 1. instead of the begining of the withdrawal from iraq occupation, we got the escaltation. 2. adminstation lawlessness not constrained (for example, warrantless spying not stopped). 3. …
this list goes on, i’m just too pissed off today to continue.
BigMitch @ 164
I thought it was nolle prosequi…. I was a GJ foreman ten years ago.
newtonusr @ 155
David Broder, Tim Russert, Kookie Roberts, Karl Rove, Prince Bandar, Osama Bin Laden
BTW,
Re: the Deep Modem commenter, I have an idea who it might be b/c that person has written law review articles and appeared on panels discussing this very topic. I know how frustrated that person is, BUT
That person has never violated national secuirty law (or any other law, so far as I know) and two wrongs don’t make a right.
If that person wants to testify AGAIN before Congress, that would be easy to set up. But don’t take the law into your own hands.
Anybody wishing to farm this comment out to ther blogs is free to do so, I am hoping that Deep Modem is NOT who I suspect he is.
I never registered at Kos, so I cannot put it there myself.
And NO, I don’t think it is Comey. I’m thinking of someone else who has already testified about FISA violations.
lhp @ 142
I be going to do that. I have them in two text files on floppy (about 80 pages, maybe more, in Word). (Things to do this evening, after cat visitation and mandatory hair deposition are done.)
LS @ 132
Of course they would. I don’t, though.
JF @ 168
AGAG gets to put someone in for up to 120 days. There is also a provision under the Vacancies Act that allows the 1st dpeuty USA to become the acting USA
Lahoma asks me: kiddo, if we had public financing of elections twenty years ago, perhaps most of these rogues we have today would never have been elected?
RonD @163
Yes, I did ask. I expected some sort of serious answer. Silly me. If we don’t do it, who will? We are all waiting for soebody else to do the heavy lifting. That is precisely how we’ve come to be it this hellacious place.
Clusterfuck’s pullin every lame claim of executive power that’s ever been dreamed of out of the bag- hoping to start the world’s biggest pissing contest—have at it pissers—aim too please!!
Hey looseheadprop,
Nice post!
A thought that I had about “contempt incarceration” is that Congress could work out a deal with a “State” government to hold the contemptuous critters.
Might be a good idea to work with a State run by a Democratic Governor like Governor Martin O’Malley (D) of Maryland.
Also, I wanted to thank you for the compliment yesterday on my Ashcroft
SingsSigns? post with Deadeye in his bunker. I try *g*P J Evans @ 180
I got the impression from Kos that they are trying to find out over there too. Its all over the net.
BigMitch @ 167
But Israel is the biggest one.
I gotta go folks. Have my very first post divorce grown up dinner with a man at 6PM and need to get on the road into Manhattan.
If you have any questions, etc. I will check this thread again tomorrow before the 24 expiration hits. So you can look for my further replies tomorrow.
have a fun evening
Steve-AR @ 63
I agree! Keep this out of any court. This should be an in-house procedure. No pun intended, this ain’t funny.
looseheadprop @ 179
i don’t think national security was threatened by the comments i saw.
looseheadprop @ 188
Have a great time!!
bmaz @ 108
interesting protocol issue, but the House Sergeant at Arms (and the Senate aA) represents the legislative branch of the U.S. government, much like the FBI and other Federal law enforcement entities represent the executive branch. Since when is the United States not within their jurisdiction? there may be niceties to observe, but there can be no question of jurisdiction.
Thanks, LHP! Have a good time!
Brisingamen @ 170
Short memories?
Here in CA it happens every few years as the more reactionary GOoPers shut down state government. One year it went three months or so: hard on everyone who gets paid by the state and isn’t wealthy (thinking of my brother with the extension service).
looseheadprop @ 187
If he can’t dance, throw him back in the pool. Donita, I’m sure, would concur.
TiredFed says
August 1st, 2007 at 1:21 pm
rwcole @ 91
Can the house send it’s officer to Texas to bag Harriet?
yup.
OOOOh!! How? How?! Gotta cite?? I gotta know how!
In any case, Harriett’s firm has offices in DC, and her clients are there. Being a fugitive from congress has a nice ring to it, anyway.
TiredFed @ 171
Just think Brown v. Board when you say “can’t touch this”…I don’t think there is a chance in hell that Scalia wouldn’t reverse his opinion in Young v. US (?).
Ed*ard Teller @ 176
NOLLE PROSEQUI – An entry made on the record, by which the prosecutor or plaintiff declares that he will proceed no further.
In Alaska, a “no true bill” is a bar to further prosecution, unless the prosecutor gets permission based on newly discovered evidence that would not have been available. Not so, in the Feds, and so, if they don’t get an indictment, they can go next door to the next grand jury and try again.
punaise @ 131
maunga @ 185
Bullshit.
David W. Bartoo @ 139
well, you know what the alternative is…
David W. Bartoo @ 139
Great idea! But why only as a last-case scenario. Put it on the table and it could have an impact. Maybe a special session of the Kos event next year could be a constitutional convention.
TiredFed @ 171
“It’s Hammer time”
BigMitch @ 199
or, as in the case of the only “no true bill” my GJ returned – on a marijuana bust in which we caught the investigators fudging bigtime – go back to the pre-trial cell, lie to the perp and get him to cop a plea, then come back to me, shaking the plea bargain in my face and laugh at me out loud.
looseheadprop @ 149
Once again, Marty, hits the nail on the head!
“What’s interesting is that Cheney pretended to wrack his brain to recall whether he gave the fateful ‘instructions.’ As if that might actually have happened — as if there would be nothing out of the ordinary if the Vice President had ‘instructed’ the President’s two closest advisors to try to squeeze a cabinet official.”
punaise @ 203
who loves ya, baby?looseheadprop @ 157
(looks away)
One of the smartest politicos in Alaska (Eric Croft) opines on the radio that Ted Stevens will not resign.
As long as our reps carry the water for the lobbyists, nothing much will change. It seems simple to us. But then of course, some might argue we are a simple people.
well, that got pretty messed up. sorry.
Richmond @ 202
Sounds good to me. Things couldn’t be much worse a year from now. Could they?
DW Bartoo #182,
Please don’t think me unserious…the problem I see is the legal machinations required to arrange a Constitutional Convention being short-circuited by those with something to lose, until it’s too late.
PJ Evans @195:
Last time (December 1995 – January 1996) I almost gave up and finished filing for unemployment benefits. Next day the Repubs conceded.
Our agency head had us start the paperwork in October when we were shut-down for 24 hours. That way, when the really long one started, we could complete the paperwork and have our first check in about a week’s time.
I heard that a lot of states were not happy to have to contemplate paying unemployment benefits to folks who would just be sitting at home, as being furloughed meant we couldn’t be job hunting.
My Mom was living in the DC area, and she said the shut-down caused the worst Christmas sales season ever seen. Real unhappy retailers.
David W. Bartoo @ 212
Well on that, I couldn’t say. We still have the pro-Iran bombers in play, and the anti-FISA group, to say nothing of the hackable election computers. A cornered animal in fear for its (way of) life is a pretty dangerous being. I wouldn’t count out anything.
Xenos @ 169
Yeah, but you ever tried to prosecute one these dogpiles (mandamus)? If so, you clearly had an easier go of it than I did; what a freaking nightmare.
Tired Fed@193 – Oh, I agree with that, I believe the Sergeant at Arms is a certified federal peace officer. However, getting that jurisdiction exercised and Miers back to DC if she sought safe harbor in Texas could be cumbersome and time consuming, and as referenced earlier, contempt powers are generally stated in terms of the current session of Congress. That was all I was saying. Hey Tired Fed, are you not in Tucson?
I am beginning to suffer from grave indifference to DeeCee
They’re all just fuckin around back there- hope they’re usin condoms- I’d hate to have em sharin one another’s fluids- and if they begin to BREED- HOLY SHIT!!
RonD @ 213
Well, they (we) managed it the first time.
You might also want to read this very recent (7/24/07) CRS Report called Congress’s Contempt Power: Law, History, Practice and Procedure.
RonD @ 213
Bill Clinton said, “There’s nothing wrong with America that what’s right with America can’t fix.” The same is true with the Constitution. Impeachment isn’t a constitutional crisis: it is the cure for a constitutional crisis. Do you want to start from scratch with a group, the majority of whom don’t believe in evolution, and at least 49% of whom voted for Bush in the last election? It’s scary, dontcha think?
selise @ 190
heh. “National Security” isn’t threatened by much of anything. MOST things classified under “national security” grounds are absolutely bogus. I have NEVER EVER seen much by way of secrets (TS/SCI) when I was in the AF, for instance, that fell into the realm of “national security” that really was. It was potentially embarrassing, potentially “ugly” for our view of ourselves but a threat to “national security” if the cat was let out of the bag? Nope.
I don’t trust the “national security” claim. There is truly very very little that can honestly be claimed to fall under that rubric. Most of that crap hides unconstitutional, unethical, or flat-out illegal acts or plans by the government. Period. As such it is invalid to keep it secret.
looseheadprop @ 187
you too. I’m hoping you won’t have time (or energy) to look at these comments until tomorrow!
TribeScribe @ 30
Wow, this should be broadcast on MSM all over the place…oh wait…
We strongly advocate commencement of impeachment hearings, Speaker.
What would happen if the accused contemnor refused to show up to their trial and instead took refuge, say, in the WH, under shrub’s protection? Would the sergeant at arms have to fight the secret service? :P
Praedor Atrebates @ 93
lhp and Praedor – please refer to Executive Order 13292.
Xenos @ 196
will do so later. no time right now. it is a FUN subject, though, isnt it?
BigMitch @ 216
I consider the 26%ers to be roughly equivalent to the 28% who supported another George.
Xenos @ 196
will do, but later tonight. check back later, this thread.
Praedor Atrebates @ 222
As a former C*msec Custodian in the Army, I wholeheartedly endorse those observations!!!
Blub @ 225
Actually, I think the Secret Service would have to assist the Sergeant at Arms. Please recall, the Detail protects the President and his family, NOT the WH staff or any of the President’s friends.
This is the place where I go out on the limb with my Pointy Stick of Cynicism and burst the bubble.
There will be no arrests, no shackles or jumpsuits, no dungeons in the sub-sub-basement, no hardened crust of bread & slop buckets, and no Harriet Miers with a footlong beard squinting at the sunlight.
There may however, be a few of our politicians doing a soft shoe with their straw hats & canes before it’s over.
BigMitch #218,
Agreed. Scary as hell. What I want to see is the current Administration investigated, impeached, and dragged out of the WH in handcuffs. Primarily to make sure the new paradigm of Executive power is repudiated, not ratified. Let this claim of unfettered Exec power be the last one.
Praedor Atrebates @ 221
agreed. the claims of “national security” should stop being abused. until then, i’m quite happy to have whistle-blowers treat them with the respect they deserve (very little).
Brisingamen @ 228
Oh, I know what they’re supposed to do, but I don’t think that’ll stop shrub from ordering them to do smething they’re not supposed to do, nor do I think that there’s any real expectation that they’d do their job rather than what shrub asks… it’s not like anybody else is actually doing their jobs in this government.
Someday it would be interesting to discuss
just how much secrecy a ‘democraqcy’ can endure and still claim to be a democracy. But only lately have we been willing to even discuss the quality of democracy we’ve got.
looseheadprop @ 110
Are you referring to the amazing
Blogosphere’s “Deepthroat” Emerges
by Residentcynic, Aug 01, 2007 at 01:57:47 AM PDT, and
Digging Deeper into the new DEEPTHROAT
by free speech zone, Aug 01, 2007 at 07:49:50 AM PDT?
WOW! I trust that the HJC and SJC folks, and Waxman’s committee, are following up on these leads!!!
Bob in HI
bmaz @ 216
nope. Baltimore. never been to Tucson (can’t even spell it half the time).
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 226
it takes a hell of a lot of courage to be a whistleblower these days.
Sorry to be OT here but I’m really irritated by the fact that PBS and NPR have been hijacted by the reThugs. (see here and here)
Why oh why does moveon still try to support them. It makes them look good.
Gunga Djinn @ 229
You are one of the people whom I think capable of upsetting their applecarts. Loved that comment way back there days ago. You are so right ‘it’s not pretty!’
“One obstacle to a deal this week is a disagreement between Democrats and the White House over how to audit the wiretapping of the foreign-to-foreign calls going through switches in the United States.
The Democrats have proposed that the eavesdropping be reviewed by the secret FISA court to make sure that it has not ensnared any Americans. “
This is from Rawstory.
The Deepmodem blank poster at TPM talks a lot about auditing. If the Dems go along with the change to FISA including a change in the way it is “audited”, then perhaps there is something to the mystery poster’s claims. Perhaps Pelosi’s (you don’t know the half of it) has something to do with all of this. Changing the FISA rules, could place the ball in the Dems court of control of the program. Just thinking out loud.
CTuttle @ 228
The biggest threat to national security is in the White House.
Gunga Djinn @ 231
I laughed out loud at this.
I have resigned myself to the belief that this is just a big game of chicken & we all have to wait & see who blinks first.
The handling of the Tillman matter today really insulted my intelligence and hurt my feelings. I have little faith that our Democratic leaders will do anything other than roll over for the dumbest president in American history and his megalomaniacal puppeteers and I don’t understand why. The numbers favor standing up and fighting.
Bob Schacht @ 235
See me at 240..
Interesting –
Mike Barnacle leads with Rumsfeld story.
Also, lead in talks about no show, censured General.
realworld @ 241
True, but meanwhile Putin just conquered the North Pole. Santa Claus is Russian now :)
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/…..index.html
selise @ 236
And thus we need a REAL “Whistleblower Protection Law” on the books that trumps any and all EOs or other laws. A “whistleblower”, by definition, is calling out illegal, unethical, or otherwise inappropriate activities and cannot, and MUST not, be subject to punishment of ANY sort. In fact, there should be a big, fat award for whistleblowing. Say no less than $2 million reward.
David shuster ties cover-up of TILLMAN with P.R. problems at the time, Abu Gharaib, and growing insurgency.
NMvoiceofreason – If you are still here, or come back, I was wondering what you thought of the documents released by the DOJ today. If you are who I think you are, they might be interesting….
hackworth @ 244
i think the calculation is that if the iraq war continues and bush/cheney are allowed to continue their mismanagement… then the country will be so pissed off at Rs come nov. 2008, there will a landslide victory for Ds.
personally, i think the Ds are flirting with provoking a serious third party challenge coupled with base demoralization. stupid and immoral.
BigMitch @ 200
Bullshit.
I call BULLSHIT on your BULLSHIT. Everything LIEberman does is tainted by his wishes to help Bush bring on the Apocalypse… and you know how that story ends…
BigMitch @ 249
thank you. no cable tv in this house. very much appreciate the info.
David Shuster closes his report:
“White house is still refusing to turn over Tillman related documents to Congress on the grounds of {wait for it} executive privilege.”
Clusterfuck says he needs to have his authority to spy on americans without warrants enhanced and Pelosi says “OK”- we’ll to it before we leave town!”
Huh?
Geez Selise @ 251, you said IT!
jacqrat @ 252
Why would Lieberman want the apocalypse? That doesn’t really add up.
OT, The Rude Pundit’s column today features Dim Son self-stroking his insatiable ego. Its a well-done article.
Check out the picture of Dubya jogging with two amputees. Rude Pundit’s caption is right on.
rwcole @ 255
see 240
A democracy, if you can keep it.
Famous last words.
This nation deserves the leadership it has.
-GSD
Oh lhp THANK YOU!
Between you and Christy, the Lake is truly blessed. Must have been frustrating to have the ole prof. there scoop ya but we’re all hooked on your style of writing anyway. So I’ll do my duty and read his stuff, but be ever so glad you’re covering this also.
Sorry to get here late – lotsa comments to catch up on too – dandy!
I haven’t been napping today, honest. Instead, I found the perfect activity for simmering down after literally coming to a boil earlier in the day.
Yeah. Rummy had a lot to do with the boil, but then I sharpened up my best boning knife and dismembered a turkey – um – literally. Must have been calmer than I felt, cause I still gots all my fingers & no bandaids need apply.
Luscious boneless turkey cutlets into the freezer, and bones stewing away on the stove. Would that it were as easy to disassemble the blahbbulations of mr. rummykins.
Then there’s tommow.
ugh. i can just see lil’ miss miers: industrial-strength, water-soluble mascara in place (initially), sitting primly in her lil’ pointy-toed shoes and lace collar, scented hankie tucked into her cuff, on the floor of the House. look deep into her soul. i’m bettin’ it’s cold as frozen turkey.
But that’s just me.
I’m off to pick a few fresh beans for supper. I wish I could share them with you all. Golly whoop, some parts of summer are special. String beans and crispy greens 5 min from the picking, fresh basil, yellow summer squash so fresh it’s still fuzzy…. and, and, … well, we’re still awaiting the queen tomatoes of the garden, as well as rover…
gettin’ danged impatient, though.
reminds me. have ta check & see if there’s another turkey in the bottom of that freezer…
back in a bit… ;->
Seems to me that the apocalypse is a NEW testament news item– Lieberman presumably doesn’t ascribe to it- or the beast- or the horned monsters- or any of that neat stuff.
New Phoenix Woman upstairs on party switching Republican to Dem…
FYI, new post
David W. Bartoo @ 238
A finer compliment I have not received, good Sir! I shall henceforth continue…er…attempt to do just that. (upset those carts, that is.)
;)
LS @ 246
I can’t see any connection with the DailyKos bombshells about a new DeepThroat. Are they referencing the same sources?
Bob in HI
BigMitch @ 249, while waiting for Schuster to get his own TV spot, get Murdoch spreading his tentacles to a respected news outlet.
Votefraud, votefraud, votefraud, votefraud!
OT: 56 of 88 Ohio Counties ILLEGALLY DESTROY ALL 2004 ballots:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4901#more-4901
Votefraud, votefraud, votefraud, votefraud!
Sally @ 268
I applaud Murdoch’s desire to destroy the Wall Street Journal.
It’s what Bushco does best — destroying anything in its path.
The Democratic Congress wants out of town in a bad way. The recess gives them the cover to run as fast as they can from the blogosphere because it is the only thing that is pressuring them to “do something.” They are more comfortable doing business as usual with their “respectable” and “honorable” Republican colleagues. I sense that they just want things to go away as much as the Republicans do.
LS @ 258
• He just wants to kill as many Arabs as possible (which includes Iranians). He’s pals with Tancredo, and also would like to nuke Mecca if possible.
How could that bring an apocalypse?
Btw, the OIL PIPELINE TO JORDAN floated today is said to be the original stimulating cause for Gulf War 1, when Hussein refused because he thought Israel would bomb the pipeline. After his refusal to pipe oil to Jordan, so the argument goes, the plan to remove him by force took form.
Bluetoe @ 271
NONSENSE.
Most Democrats would be happy to work through August. But the Republicans would revolt if forced to stay for more pummeling.
looseheadprop @ 188
OMG!!!
I’ve been on one of those from the other side of the gender descriptor.
Have a wonderful time.
I’d recommend the old rhetorician’s advice of picturing the other person undressed but……..
Have fun and thx for the post.
realworld @ 239
I listened to the NPR coverage of the SCHIP debate and was not surprised that it was so one sided. National Propaganda Radio needs to be defunded by those who pledge at least twice a year.
Re; the ‘blank poster’ comments
sorry missed comment#
‘Some of the comments look like just a drive-by anonymous (like the Harry Potter one).’
The Harry Potter link was in response to someone jokingly asking ‘him’ if ‘he’ also knew the location of some sword..It was a ‘g’ thing…
Paul in LA @ 273
Let them revolt. It would be a PR disaster for the Republicans to “revolt” over having to work thru the recess when American troops are dying in Iraq. I disagree with you, it’s the Democrats that want the recess because they want to recalibrate the effects the blogosphere is having on their actions or inactions.
Any chance they have a set of working stocks hiding in the Capitol basement? You want to talk about theatre…
Probably time to outen the lights and meet up yonder.
Inherent Contempt won’t happen – The Dems are too timid and the Busies claim that executive privlidge pre-empts all oversight.
Bob Schacht @ 267
Much of what the blank poster says has to do with audits and parallel audits and dummy audits and dummy projects. Blank said that the Admin. does not know which are dummy and which are real, but the auditors are monitoring both. Blank said that is why the Admin. cannot give up any documents at all, because they don’t know who has or knows what. The new proposed change to the FISA law that the Repubs are trying to push through is held up by the Dems who say they might go along with it if it can be audited by FISA court. Pelosi said “you don’t know the half of it” about something. I’m saying maybe she already knows the stuff the blank poster is saying – basically that the Administration has been “watched” and monitored for a long time by “auditors” that have been trapping them in their crimes, which may be why she would be willing to go along with a change to FISA, and why she has impeachment off the table. The “audit” is the key – it is the big trail of evidence. It is massive, if it is true.
LS @ 258
Uh huh. Plus the apocalypse is a fundamentalist christian thing, not a jewish thing.
Fern.. Answer to your question on this freaky video here
LS @ 258
LIEberman is an Israeli, and that is where his first loyalty lies. Sadly, his (American) countrymen have been bamboozled into thinking Israel our economic colony is our friend: it is not, and it conned Bush/Cheney into the invasion of Iraq. Read “A Clean Break” and note who wrote it and who are their friends.
LS @ 241
I had the same thought you did… Deepmodem has previously mentioned the topic in some posts (I think that they are the same person) on July 10 over at TPMM. Regardless, I got the feeling that the person has some pretty deep understanding of what has been happening.
Captain Magic
It’s true. The netroots can lead the Donkey to the well, but cannot make him drink.
It’s time to realise the Donkey doesn’t want to drink.
time to get a new steed/.
Eureka Springs @ 283
Sounded like identical backgrond track for the “OMEN” playing in the background of the video link!!!
Bring it on! What will be wonderful will be forcing all the Repugnants to vote nay. Every one of them can then be painted as hating the constitution, and opinion polls will show that the people want her punished for defying Congress. Yummy!
A couple of late points.
The point of this is that the president cannot pardon a civil legislative contempt citation, because that would violate separations of powers principles. There would be no way to challenge the contempt except for a habeas corpus hearing, presumably brought by Miers herself. I am not clear that the executive branch would even have standing to file anything other than an amicus brief.
As to the trial, it is easy. She didn’t even show up, so the facts are short. There is only legal argument. So, you set a fixed time for the argument, one hour per side. Bingo. Trial over, lets vote.
wesgpc @ 56
The proceedings will have to be in the house. We don’t have the votes in the Senate if the reps play politics, which they most certainly will.
masaccio – Absolutely right; and if they will just follow the damn law (a stretch fo our clowns), this should be about a 15 minute trial. If the subject has been properly served with a valid subpoena (prima facie presumption is that it is valid on it’s face) and willfully fails to appear; that is about the the end of the story.
Holy crap, I just read about the bridge collapse in Minneapolis.
I used to work about 2 blocks from there. We had a view of the bridge and the Minneapolis skyline behind it. Crazy.
…lolz, wrong thread.
In the case of Alberto Gonzeles, and based on his testimony before Congress to date, wouldn’t his offense be “incoherent contempt” of Congress.
And wouldn’t George W. Bush, in general, be guilty of “incoherent contempt,” too, but in his case for butchering the English language?
As far as Harriett Miers, we’ll have to wait to hear her “forced” testimony before Congress to determine whether she’ll offend all of us (and Congress) with either “incoherent contempt” or something closer to that which Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld display, “coherent contempt” with a snarl and sneer thrown in for good measure.
What? What was the subject again? Inherent contempt?
Why, a little stem cell research should be able to clear that up, being inherent, and all. Unfortunately, it’s a little too late for all the Republicans with this affliction, since their “inherent contempt” for our democracy, our Constitution and for the truth is so ingrained.
Let’s DO THIS THING! Take her down!
LS @ 258
Oh? Read this.
Sometimes one has to read between the lines.
The only “Inherent Contempt” is thos Congress and their Refusal to do their jobs, its getting old and it is disgusting. I know that if I am in a fight I must protect myself apparently these nieve simpletons do not realize it or choose to ignore it, to what end I have No idea.
They know that the Talking Monkey in the White House has NO intention of co operating what so ever and holds this Congress in complete CONTEMPT, so I ask when they issue the contempt citations why isn’t the Sgt. of or at Arms their to take them IMMEDIATELY into custody. I am pretty sure a 45 cal pistol placed to the temple of the Gutless Spineless Coward and Traitors head will be a very strong persauder in making them go to jail.
Apprehension can be done at their home work or enroute there of, this GAME that Congress is playing is just that a game and I for one am very tired of it.
One last thing if they resist can that be justification for a KILL shot as they are dangerous and should be treated as such. Call it resisiting arrest and escape and evasion boy some of these Scumbags being killed while resisting arrest would definetly raise the moral in this Country.
Praedor Atrebates @ 220
I am not suggesting that national security is compromised by this leaking. I am suggesting that the leaker is compromising his own integrity, and nmore importantly–that the leaker is ignoring the rule of law.
In order to be read into the prgram, this leaker would have had to sign executive agreements swearing to keep this information secret until it is declassified.
The leaker has an absolute right to take any legal means to have declassified including starting a lawsuit, but cannot just decide he doesn’t feel like being bound by his oath. it makes him no better than Libby–though clearly his motives are nobler.
You cannot have everybody out there free lancing and making up their own rules as they go along–THAT is a danger to national security.
Blub @ 224
I don’t think we have precedent for that, but I assume that the contemnor could be tried in absentia and a fugitve warant issued. So, the contemnor would effectively have imprison him/herself in the WH
Gunga Djinn @ 231
Sadly, you are probably right. I am dealing in the realm of what is legally possible (ie what they could and proably should do) rather than the realm of what is politically likely.