The nameless fellow(s?) and good friend of Michelle Malkin’s behind the right-wing blog aggregator Volunteer Opinion Journal thinks he’s caught us all being naughty. Pretty mild stuff, compared to what his comrades were and are saying about Scott Thomas Beauchamp (for more, go here and here), but hey, you work with the “hate speech” you have, not the hate speech you wish you had — such as what regularly issues from the posts and comments over at Michelle Malkin’s shop. These people are the Republican base, and as TRex points out, this is precisely why the Republicans don’t dare do a YouTube debate in which their base has any sort of say: It would hand the presidential election to the Democrats the same way that Pat Buchanan’s Republican-pleasing froth-at-the-mouth speech at the 1992 Republican National Convention guaranteed that Bill Clinton would be our next president.
Of course, what our nameless commentator doesn’t mention is that the vast majority of non-righty bloggers and commenters talking about Roberts’ seizure, such as Digby and our own Pachacutec in my respectful post on the subject, urged our readers to play nice with regard to Roberts. I’ve gone poking about the VOJ looking for his thoughts on Scott Thomas Beauchamp, and I’ve yet to see him — or any other right-wing blogger or radio host, with the sole honorable exception of John Cole (for which he got flamed, repeatedly, by other righty bloggers and their readers) — tell his fan base and other conservative personalities to play nice where Beauchamp is concerned. (I’ve also yet to see Mister VOJ, or any other conservative commentator of any sort, condemn Michael Savage for trying to blame John Roberts’ health problems on a Democratic conspiracy.)
Once again, the wingnutosphere’s accusing non-wingers of bad behavior is like Hitler accusing Churchill of war crimes. Or Hot Tub Tom DeLay condemning Bill Clinton’s morality. Or Republican Newt Gingrich hounding his Democratic predecessor out of the Speaker’s job and the House over a $50,000 book deal even as he himself was making a $4 million book deal with Rupert Murdoch in exchange for the legislation that made FOX News possible.
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zwed
PW!
zed?
or zed
BigMitch got it!
Single digits!
Hey! I just met Marcy by the elevator.
ed T — are you here?
Big Mitch, EPU I was referring to this request.
Is anyone else watching Tony Snow on CSPAN3? He was just asked if Rove is gonna testify tomorrow. I missed most of his answer but Fred Fielding was mentioned. Anybody catch it?
OT I don’t have a permalink for this but this is the current picture of typhoon Usagi about to hit Japan.
http://www.goes.noaa.gov/FULLDISK/MTIR.JPG
BigMitch @ 8
Yeah. Please see #89 in the previous thread, big guy.
Does anyone think we should be asking the Democratic candidates where they stand on RE-regulating media ownership?
I think we should go back to only allowing companies to own one newspaper, or radio station, or TV channel per market area.
Helen @ 10
Heck Helen wouldn’t you rather work than watch Snowjob?
Today’s Froomkin on Cheney:
LINK
ccmask @ 7
Coolness! How’s everything going so far?
Hugh @ 11
Man. Clear as a bell. Thanks.
Helen @ 10
I’ve got him on, but after awhile it just seeps through. I totally missed it.
Consider it done after 11:15 local time, when she will be on the air.
Helen @ 10
Alas, my ‘puter won’t let me see C-Span.
Thanks again, Helen, for your kick-ass work!
PW,
The funny thing is, Hitler did accuse Churchill of war crimes. During the Battle of Britain, during which the Luftwaffe bombed London for 58 consecutive days, Hitler went on the radio and condemned Churchill for dispatching “British air pirates” to Berlin.
Accuse your enemy of what you yourself are doing?
“Al Gore is trying to steal the election in Florida!”
BigMitch @ 19
You the man!
Phoenix Woman @ 16
Great. Quiet right now though. I ate White Castle for lunch .
ccmask @ 23
I am going to be getting so frigging jealous this week! She must have finished cleaning her house.
Ron D @ 21 – classic projection
AZ Matt @ 15
Cheney: I don’t recall.
Gonzo: I don’t recall.
Tillman hearing: I don’t recall.
Libby trial: I don’t recall.
At least be somewhat creative about it…
Danziger on Murdock’s new WSJ Editor!!!
Helen @ 10
well, it’s a pretty safe bet that it wasn’t, “Fred Fielding has instructed Mr. Rove to appear at the hearing tomorrow and answer all questions truthfully and completely. The American people are entitled to no less.”
Ed*ard Teller @ 24
Sheis sitting here blogging with me.
AZ Matt #27,
Sprite all over my keyboard-Thanks, man.
I would say Savage is truly unhinged. I wouldn’t be surprised if he went off the deep end big time one day.
NSA, NSC, what’s the difference? ;-)
new deep throat?
Follow the amnesia.
RonD @ 30
Oh, Any time!
OT folks. http://www.globalresearch.ca/i…..8;aid=6407 Got corn? The Chimpsta’s bio-fuel plan.
AZ Matt @ 27
Bwahahahaha
I thought we showed remarkable restraint during the whole John Roberts discussion. I was expecting some questions asking ‘where’s the wife and family?, “Who’s he with?” etc. but nary a one.
Remarkable restraint.
Rove…probably not
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..-congress/
Besides… they are going to give them FISA reform WTF!
musicsleuth @ 35
D’oh.
Hot potato- http://www.globalresearch.ca/i…..p;aid=6407
Right-wingnuts are so full of hate and bile and nastiness! Karma, I say. They’ll get their just desserts one of these days, months, years…
Why are the Dem leaders even discussing FISA reform until these bogus claims of executive privilege are waived and the facts concerning abuse of domestic surveillence are disclosed? WTF!!
Will someone in Chicago this weekend PLEASE make Nancy explain in detail why the hell she is going to give Bush FISA reform? Why not just go ahead and make him dictator? Get it over with and go on vacation.
Ed*ard Teller @ 18
I made the mistake of trying to watch as I ate my lunch! Can you say dyspepsia? Oooooh…
Narrowly defined programs (translation: we’re just way too smart for you!) Rising costs associated with Schip, Budget cap (translation: Billions for new H bombs, not a penny for the children) I have to go be sick now.
FISA has been revised numerous times since its inception. Still you have wonder what tin ears Reid and Pelosi have. They should be framing this as narrow, responsible, and unrelated to the wildly illegal NSA program or Abu’s perjury. It’s another case of clowns opposing crooks. When will the Democrats get a clue?
Help!
While I was trying to get C-Span3 up on the ‘puter and look at comments on FDL, I noticed that there was some army type — I think a leutenant General, who in a headline was mis-identified as a leutenant — who was evading service of a subpoena issued by Waxman’s committee.
Did anyone else notice this?
For non-military types: a leutenant is the lowest ranking officer in the Army. A leutenant general wears 3 stars.
ironranger @ 31
Please refer to “Savage” by his real name: Michael Wiener.
Hi Pw – great post. It’s astounding that their heads do not simply explode off their shoulders with the sheer impact of conflicting stances. Perhaps it has to do with the thickness of the bone matter.
FYI –
Rick Moran at RightWingNutHouse had an excellent conservative-oriented post on Beauchamp.
There are logical conservatives, but as the post notes, the hardcore wingnut base tends to gravitate to the obscene.
Ah yes. Wiener is much more accurate.
Hugh @ 44
I respectfully disagree.
We need a foreign intelligence surveillance program that is kept up to date with changes in technology. Dems would be fools to open themselves up to the charge that they withheld this for “political theater” reasons. It is important that they enact and monitor a legal program for surveillance of our enemies.
We do have enemies.
brendan @ 46
Gevalt! Don’t we Jews have enough to be embarrassed by?
snowbird42 @ 37
Just called my Rep and told her to vote against the bill…don’t know if it will do any good. Sent messages to my Senators saying same.
Hugh, I don’t think the Congress should give Bush a FISA reform until he comes clean on what they are already doing. Bush has proven to be way too authoritarian-minded for me to be comfortable giving him any more authority, IMO.
BigMitch @ 50
In the White House
Further to me at #50, above:
The new and improved FISA reform bill should be explicit in out-lawing any unregulated surviellance program. Does anyone know what the new bill says in this regard?
If Bush is given more authority, who expects him to exercise it competently, for the good of the nation? Who expects him to respect whatever boundaries ARE set?
Exactly.
BigMitch @ 50
Aren’t you agreeing? I think Hugh’s point is that the administration is taking advantage of the renewal for legislation to muddy the waters and conflate the current renewal with whatever it was they were doing that was so illegal.
Though there are reservations about the renewal expressed here ACLU, etc: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews
BigMitch @ 55
That would be a great idea-until the inevitable signing statement to follow, where it says the President doesn’t have to obey the law, since it infringes on his authority as Commander-in-Chief.
Ask McCain about that.
wow — just got done with the Rumsfield testimony.
High ranking officials in the Pentagon and the Administration don’t remeber a damn thing they did, but they are sure they didn’t coldly exploit a tragedy for purely political reasons. At least you can’t prove we did. I think it was a rogue underling.
Cheney doesn’t recall if he sent Gonzo. Gonzo doesn’t recall whether he’s wearing godamn underwear or not. Rummy doesn’t recall the details of Tillman’s death. Pentagon doesn’t recall its investigation. Scooter doesn’t recall who sent him out for the Plame hit.
Can we all chip in and ship these bastards some ginko? These are all the forgettingest bunch of pre-Alhizmers serious-brain-truma people I’ve ever met. My mom’s got a day-planner with notes in it, for pete’s sake!
Perhaps a stroll through the rightwing fever swamps for choice quotes after Sen. Tim Johnson was stricken ill would be quite illuminating.
-GSD
brendan @ 57
It there an emoticon for “slapping forehead and saying, ‘I must be a dope’? It sure would come in handy now.
Big M: What does “gevalt” mean?
I love to say “oy gevalt,” even though I’m a shiksa — it is such a satisfying exclamation. But I don’t know what I’m saying…..
Mitch @51:
It wasn’t the Jewishness of the name I was calling attention to, but the overcompensating incongruity of “Savage” and “Wiener”.
BigMitch @ 50
Yes — and they’re at the top of the Executive Branch.
I say don’t give the Criminal-in-Chief anything he wants UNTIL he gives us what we want — our troops out of Iraq — NOW not 2009.
And would you really want the current Justice Department managing these new FISA rules? Not a good idea while Gonzo the Walking Carpet is in charge.
Off topic a bit, and I may have missed this with all of the other crap coming out lately, but did anyone notice that there is a new “Homeland Security” regulation that allows the Department to data mine information from people coming from Europe? I remember something about this, but it isn’t just SS Numbers and addresses, it also includes, but not limited to:
Race/Gender
Political Affiliation
SEXUAL PREFERENCES
What, should we be scared of the always dangerous West Amsterdam Soc*al*st Muslim Transgenders coming and bombing us because they hate us for our freedom? The new Democratic President must sign an executive order within his/her first 100 days renaming Homeland Security to something else, and then tearing down these data mining capabilities. This stuff just makes me sick to my stomach sometimes.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
and that is an excellent reason for Democrats not to cave on it.
RonD @ 42
Speaking of dictators, anyone else notice how Gonzales and Cheney say they are “accountable to the President” when asked about “accountability”? Like, hey, if it’s OK with him, then it’s OK!
Consider me irked.
oddmommy @ 62
“Gevalt” means literally force, or power. It is like if someone were (God forbid) being raped, s/he might say “Help! Rape!” In the same way, it means, “stop! you are hurting me with the forcefulness of what you just said.”
busboy33 @ 59
more reasons for health care reform!
Make it a big Costco size container.
BigMitch @ 45
Not sure what you’re asking here; I know squat about how officers rank, but the person who evaded the subpoena was Kensinger. And Waxman actually said the Marshalls can’t find him, so they’re looking for him. McCrystal sent the P4 to Abbizaid, Brown and Kesinger warning them to tell the WH not to talk about Tillman’s death until they knew what happened. At the hearing Abizaid and Brown both said they did not talk to Bush about the P4.
Brisingamen @ 13
Absolutely, but not, repeat, not, to be mentioned before the election. Me, I’d go back to the rigid control — networks cannot own local stations, companies/individuals may own radio or tv or print, not all……. Networks may not be divisions of giant corporations — could be fun!
brendan @ 63
Of course, I understood that. I am just saying the guy is “a disgrace to the race” as it were.
do-si-do @ 67
And when Pelosi was asked what she thought of impeaching Gonzo, she rubbed her forehead, with a furrowed brow, and said. “we should just concentrate on our agenda.” What the hell is the agenda, then? Raising minimum wage? There must be accountability for the ass-raping the Constitution has taken the last 6 years. Even if one is not inclined to side with the “living Constitution” theory (I do), the assault on the basic tenants of the Constitution must be addressed.
BigMitch @ 50
Thanks for completely missing my point. This is a question of timing and framing. Reid did the same “If we all work together we can get this thing done” with the Military Commissions Act. What a great success that turned out to be. Changes to FISA have occurred. This Administration in the past when asked if it thought it needed changes to FISA to update it in technological terms said no, it didn’t. It then went off on its own putting in place the warrantless NSA wiretapping program.
Now the Administration suddenly decides it wants to make FISA more technologically relevant. Why now? It is all very good to say we have enemies but we had them last week, last month, last year. Where was the rush then? The issues have certainly been known for years. So why now just as Congress is about to leave town?
The timing and precipitate nature of the request are both bogus. The framing by the Democrats is inexecrable and inexcusable.
Yes, implement the new FISA rules just in time for the election so that Bush and Gonzales and the cadre of loyal Bushies can use the new rules to compile a whatever they need on the Democratic opponents and run a legendary dirty tricks campaign.
-GSD
They can’t find Kensineger to serve him the subpoena? Hopefully they are freezing his pension checks until he is located.
Big Mitch:
You say:
“I respectfully disagree. We need a foreign intelligence surveillance program that is kept up to date with changes in technology. Dems would be fools to open themselves up to the charge that they withheld this for “political theater” reasons. It is important that they enact and monitor a legal program for surveillance of our enemies. We do have enemies.”
No imputation of bad faith, but you parrot Republican accusations with this kind of stock phrasing. What’s more, you’re asking Democrats to play defensive at the least appropriate moment, when they are already on the offensive and clubbing the Republicans with Gonzalez’s perjury and very vocally presuming the worst about the crimes Gonzalez and Bush are covering up with regard to “the program”.
Helen @ 70
Thank you. You answered my question.
BigMitch @ 50
What part of “FISA has been revised numerous times since its inception” was unclear? Bush is flat-out lying about “new technologies” being the motivation for changing FISA; it has already been revised since the inception of every one of the technologies he talks about.
If we’re still knuckling under to administration surveillance abuses because we’re afraid they might say mean things about us, we may as well give up now. They’re the ones who have claimed they don’t have to follow the law on wiretapping, denied in sworn statements that there were any abuses of NSLs, and claimed they don’t have to tell Congress anything about any program where they claim national security is involved. They have abused and concealed the powers they have, and how many terrorism prosecutions do they have to show for it? They should get nothing new until they show that they’re using the powers they have responsibly.
What the Dems do makes no difference to their attacks; if they give in on this one they’ll find something more outrageous to ask for so they can attack us for denying them that.
jim oconnor @ 76
who knows, maybe Rummy’s got him on ice somewhere
Helen @ 70
In yesterday’s ABC news story his lawyer said he was on a business trip and that his client wouldn’t be appearing at what he called, to paraphrase, a charade.
“They” used the NSC and contractors to spy on dissidents, American citizens. Hidden in plain sight. It’s the privacy. If the American people…knew. what. we. did. in. their. names. We are the enemy.
Helen @ 70
US military ranks.b>
The rush to change FISA and the fears of political backlash will lead to more stupidity.
It is similar to the AUMF/War vote and the Patriot Act.
“Hurry, we must act NOW or the terrrists will kill us all.”
I am sick and tired of fear as a motivating factor.
-GSD
The lovely fellow who referred to Pat Tillman as worm dirt is Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich :
ESPN Tillman story
jim oconnor @ 76
I ’spose he’s hiding out with Iraq’s WMDs.
Brendan and Hugh, please re-read #61 supra.
GSD @ 84
And if they get FISA or something together, will someone please tell Conyers, or at least one of his staffers, to READ THE DAMN BILL. Please.
Get Tough @ 88
for a change
GSD @ 84
Hi GSD, I posted this yesterday but will repeat here for those who missed it.
ACLU’s response to FISA myths
Re Cheney not recalling whether he was the one who made the call to sent the White House Gang to Ashcroft’s bedside:
Do ya think that Scooter was working late that night? Cheney sez to Scooter: “Scoot, make a call, will ya? Send those guys over to the hospital. Tell them that the Prez would want it that way.”
Parsing, parsing. This country hasn’t been the same since Ed Meese found the magic “I don’t recall” formula.
do-si-do @ 85
It was fraticide, or whatever it is called. He was anti-illegal war, pro-kick ass in Afganistan, and wasn’t bashful about talking about it. Plus, he had money, other views and charisma that his unit didn’t have. What they did have is guns, and they killed him. After today’s hearings, and the autopsy report leak, it’s about a slam dunk a murder case that there is.
There was a right-wing idiot on the radio this morning saying that we’d save Iraq if we attacked Iran. I couldn’t listen to the rest, I shut the thing off.
The station I used to listen to in college has been ruined, now I can scarcely listen for local news and weather. I guess I’m going to have to convince my partner that we need to find a new station.
brendan @ 77
I also have a problem with Big Mitch here, and in his (earlier stated) support of Lieberman as someone who is an asshole, but little more. I fear B.M. is from the right coast sometimes.
BigMitch @ 87
Yes, please. We’re already good enough at eating our own. That’s the one thing that can destroy us right now.
How far in advance did he schedule this business trip?
Couldn’t he have made a deposition and saved the marshals a lot of time?
Any bets he’d also have amnesia or whatever it is that’s going around in DC?
Cheney’s denial was (shades of Ben Bradlee) a non-denial denial. Tony Snow’s latest script on the countless documents came straight out of All the Presidents Men. These guys can’t even come up with original lies and excuses. They’re replaying Watergate, and I’ll bet the so-called Total Surveillance Program, renamed Terrorist Surveillance Program, caused the threatened DOJ resignations because the data mining (done by outside contractors) was being used for political purposes. Everybody should send GOP house members an email to oppose FISA expansion because Hillary will use it next.
If we’re still knuckling under to administration surveillance abuses because we’re afraid they might say mean things about us, we may as well give up now. They’re the ones who have claimed they don’t have to follow the law on wiretapping, denied in sworn statements that there were any abuses of NSLs, and claimed they don’t have to tell Congress anything about any program where they claim national security is involved. They have abused and concealed the powers they have, and… should get nothing new until they show that they’re using the powers they have responsibly.
Bravo Redshift!! My sentiments exactly, but expressed better.
BtF, in addition to Meese, the canonization of Oliver North by the right wing was a green light to every corrupt Republican since to lie through their teeth. I believe a faulty memory and a complete lack of scruples have been on the job requirements list for all Republican candidates since.
Way EPU’d back to Trex here
I was really dismayed driving this afternoon listenening to NPR’s Day to Day today when they had a lenghty piece on the current debate over SCHIP. So, who were the representatives they had to represent the different sides of the issue: HHS Secretary Mike Levitt and Tom Coburn. Fair and balanced. Opps, isn’t that Faux Network, er…
It was the job of Rumsfeld and his gang to offer up volunteers as fodder for the war we were lied into. “But, hey, suckers, don’t expect us to answer any questions once they get killed. What don’t you understand about volunteers, you dummies? Kill and be killed. That’s the lovely art of war. What counts is we’re safe and drawing generous pay and benefits. What’s not to like about this war?”
do-si-do @ 90
Great link do-si-do!
Everyone who can: post & link far & wide
I just cringe when Dubya spews his blather about “the update.”
AS IF FISA currently written to apply to
two tin cans connected by a string —
(note palindrome: FISA — AS IF)
Get Tough @ 73
Amen. This is the most bipartisan and most important agenda in front of us. It must be addressed. Now.
What’s truly frightening is that most people I talk to are locked into a partisan mode of thinking about government. In addition, most are totally unaware of the Constitutional crisis before us.
why the silence?
this is a story that would keep cable TV news going for months without any hint of girls gone wild or fake confessions of former friends of Jon Bonet Ramsey.
Ratings and community service. What a concept!!
Phoenix Woman @ 95
What is this touchiness for? I was criticizing his argument, not him, and was moreover being civil about it. Go ask Big Mitch if he had a problem with my response.
Edward Meese was the one of the worst things to happen to this Country. He was simply an embarrassment!
I am curious as to what would happen if someone of ordinary stature, say a dweeb such as myself, were to attempt the “I don’t recall” defense. I expect I would be summarily jailed for contempt until such time as my memory improved significantly. Perhaps I assume too much, but somehow, I very much doubt I would be allowed to stroll out of the courtroom on my merry way, smirking the trademark grin of the stalwarts of the “Loyal Bushies”.
Richmond @ 94
I think the point I made with respect to Lieberman is that we can attack him on a lot of levels, but it would be refreshing to see him attacked for something other than his religious beliefs. For example, if you disagree with his stance on the Israeli/Arab problem, you can frame your argument in terms that don’t describe him as a Jewish Fundamentalist. I am no defender of Lieberman, and calling him an asshole is not a very strong defense.
realworld @ 100
You know, guys, you have to give the Bushies credit with the way they have commandeered the media. Nixon got skewered because of the media, Reagan stayed just above the fray enough for nothing to stick, and this administration has gotten their minions into the “traditional” liberal/progressive bastions: NPR, WaPo, and not to mention just gutted the MSM. Watch out for the blogs, the Bushies progency will be targeting that in the next couple of years.
BigMitch @ 87
I wrote my response before I saw your #81. Sorry. But it really gets me that Pelosi and Reid are playing footsie with an Administration that has zero credibility on FISA. They are giving an Administration cover that deserves none.
someone had a great comment earlier about how the Reichstag wanted to wait and see how the 1934 (?) election turned out. Didn’t work out so well for them, eh? Think someone should ask Nancy that question?
Gosh Golly! Let’s not be so hard on the Dems. They’ve got their applecarts to consider. But Dennis looked like he had that thing in the back, you know that thing that allows pepole to be upright.
“……..Pelosi and Reid are playing footsie with an Administration that has zero credibility on FISA. They are giving an Administration cover that deserves none”, as I have just advised the young staffer in my congressman’s office. The kid didn’t know what FISA was nor of any pending surveillance legislation. Not. A. Good. Sign. How can I know more about this than congressional staff?
TiredFed @ 109, yeah, a lot of those who could have stopped this train wreck are going to wake up soon and ask, “What happened?”
We are watching the collapse of the Democrats again.
Clyburn was just saying that the Petraeus report will cause the bluedogs to go wobbly and support Bush.
Now Speaker Pelosi and Sen. Reid are going to serve up what remains of our civil liberties on a platter because they don’t want to get called soft on terrorists in 2008.
It’s Groundhog Day in America.
-GSD
Get Tough @ 92
Ouch. Um, I totally am with you dude. I wouldn’t even call it fratricide, he was taken out. I only just learned about the three shots to the forehead within close range and I am outraged by the callousness of this psychopathic panel today.
Please know, everyone, I only posted this abominable quote because people were attributing it to Kessinger who is, I guess, on the lam? But Kauzlarich is the sleazeball who said it.
((Get Tough))
Di-si-do.
Thanks for the link.
-GSD
RonD @ 99
Something died when they pulled that excellent interrogator with the sympathetic-uncle schtick off of Ollie. Ollie was ready to spill everything, because he felt that finally somebody understood him. Overnight, as I recall, the lawyer was sent packing; Congress could do this by itself — and obviously it could not, NOR DID IT WANT TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH.
BigMitch @ 106
I love ya, Big Mitchy, and I have gone over this before, but I have to say again that the reason I attach Lieberman’s religious affiliation to his policies is because on domestic issues, he is progressive, but when it comes to the protection of Israel, everyone else be damned. If he was truly just against the terrorists, he would be advocating stopping them in Afganistan and Pakistan. The reason why he isn’t is because Afganistan and Pakistan have not advocated erradicating Israel from the planet. Yes, I am for the Israeli state to survive. But these hardline tactics and sabar rattlting gets everyone NOWHERE. And it is refreshing to see some these hardliners getting the third degree within Israel, and from respected journalists like David Remnick.
I will now cease to write about Lieberman and get to the regularly scheduled programming.
Let me come to Joe Lieberman’s defense by calling him a pompous douchebag.
-GSD
GSD @ 115
De nada. Glad I can be helpful for once. I found it on another blog which I wish I could credit right now…if I could recall!
Gingko me.
TiredFed @ 109
That seems so true. Pelosi and Reid are acting as if everything is “normal”; that if they just stick to protocol, somehow the process will just work out. Everything about this Administration is “abnormal”. It’s like the Dems are living in lalaland.
retirin’ in five @ 111
cuz they are like 12 years old. have you seen the kids that handle the phones? gotta give them a break. if you’re lucky, you might be able to get him/her to transfer you to a senior staffer (who may or may not be over 25) for an informed conversation.
do-si-do @ 114
Pat Tillman rocked. I am somewhat of a football fan, not at the expense of my family, and loved watching him play. He would bring the heavy lumber on every hit. And he had a brain inside that nugget. It’s a tragedy.
realworld @ 100
I refuse to listen to NPR anymore. It has largely gone to the dark side.
Speaking of war, here’s Senator Obama beating the drums.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..sm.html?hp
Re Kensinger, I think Waxman should wait until he is found and then re-issue the subpoena.
If he does testify, I can see moments like this:
Col. Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth.
Col. Jessep: You can’t handle the truth.
retirin’ in five @ 111
just called my reps office too.
there’s a saying that in the federal government republicans are dangerous and democrats are useless.
i wish the dems would do more to prove this wrong.
today has not been a good day.
BigMitch @ 106
It is not his religious beliefs, Mitch, it is his actions. I resent the implication that if we speak about the Isra*li meme actions which work to the detriment of our own actions, we are being unfair, or perhaps even anti-Semitic.
If Michael Savage wants to play a little Oliver Stonish, why doesn’t he ask why anthrax, a substance controlled by the government was only mailed to Democratic Senators. He can’t possibly be saying Robert’s health problem was a left wing conspiracy, with a straight face. There’s a name for people that will do anything for money. What a tool.
Sally @ 124
I love Obama, so I have to defend him here. We have people who want to attack the United States. Unfortunately it has been used as propoganda by the Bushies to such an extreme that it’s hard to believe anything about it anymore. But what he is advocating is doing what the Bushies should have done after 9/11: Go after the Taliban in Afganistan and the terrorist factions in Pakistan. If Gore, or even Obama, or Clinton (Slick Willy, that is) was in the WH, that’s what would have happened.
Get Tough @ 129
Moon @ 128
Wait a tick. What is Savage saying?
Brisingamen @ 13
Wonderful idea. I’m all for Re-regulating media ownership.
Concentration of media ownership promotes censorship and authoritarian government.
PLovering @ 132
Ain’t goina happen with Hillry – she and Rupert are best buds!
PLovering @ 132
Break ‘em up like Ma Bell. The Sherman and Clayton Acts are as important to the fundamental doctrines of this country as the Bill of Rights.
Get Tough @ 129, going into Pakistan will not limit the war to the terrorist factions. Only complete fools think it will.
Get Tough @ 129
i have no problem going after the actual perpetrators of 911.
however, i insist it be done is a way that does not make americans less safe. and i insist it be done in a way that respects the rights of all bystanders.
from reading portions of obama’s speach it appears he fails these tests. but, i will listen to it when possible, and may revise my evaluation then.
Richmond @ 133
So sad, and true.
Get Tough @ 131
See the Michael Savage link in the text.
Michael Savage for trying to blame John Roberts’ health problems on a Democratic conspiracy.)
selise @ 136
Selise, don’t take this personally, but I want to use this opportunity to address what some think is a flaw for Obama: that he doesn’t get to the details. He is as detailed as any other candidate on any issue. He has written two lenghty books on his views, and has over 12 years of governing experience in addressing the most important issues. He cannot simply go into every little detail about what he would do if he attacked a country because they were harboring terrorits because it would be impossible, and a little pedantic. I envision a guy like Obama being like Michael Douglas in The American President: when he bombed Tripoli, he made sure that the least amount of custodial staff were in the building. Obama would be the same way, I have absolutley no doubt about that.
Moon @ 138
So, in ‘93, the dems had a crystal ball and could see into the future that he would be the CJ nominee? I hope this one dies–let’s give him no credence.
Get Tough @ 137
Hillary won’t be elected.
Said Israeli General, Oded Tira, “We must turn to Hillary Clinton … for support to attack Iran.”
The American people don’t want to go to war with Iran.
Maybe someone at the Chicago meeting will ask Senator Clinton if she is “best buds” with Murdoch as is often stated here as gospel.
(What she reportedly said at one time is that Murdoch is one of her constitutents.)
Sally @ 135
And only complete fools would sit idoly by and not do anything if Musharraf decides that is junta will not address those factions.
Sally @ 142
Murdoch did a fundraiser for her.
Get Tough @ 139
Unilateral military action inside Pakistan a none to stable country with nuclear arms I think might warrant a few details.
I hope folks start asking candidates who they would bring with them into government. This isn’t a one-man (or one-woman) show. Even if it is hypothetical, like, “would you want someone like Patrick Fitzgerald as AG?”
PLovering @ 141
Did you see that love fest for the Clintons on Nightline last night? If you did, I think there is a second installment today. The MSM and the Bushies have all but conceded that their candidates are insufficient to win an election. Might as well go with the candidate that reflects their jingoistic prinicples the most.
Get Tough @ 139
well, maybe you know him personally and have reason to have “no doubt”.
but i don’t. what i hear is pol who doesn’t want to get pinned down… who wants people to be able to hear what they want to hear. and when he was pinned down (for example, by gravel in an early debate), what i heard did not reassure.
btw – no way i’m going to take your comment personally. i’m happy to be corrected or educated here (indeed, i appreciate it).
and i wasn’t comparing obama against the other candidates so much as comparing him against my own standard of what is an acceptable foreign policy.
TiredFed @ 146
YES! I think Clinton needs to be asked that question.
Sally @ 142
As I recall he helped her do fund-raising!
Gotta agree with Selise. I want to like Obama, but he has a maddening tendency to talk around questions, and I have yet to hear him take a controversial position on anything.
Get Tough @ 147
Get Tough @ 143, Musharraf has already decided he will not address these factions. He knows what will happen if he does and it won’t be pretty. I had hoped by now that sane Americans would understand that war is not the first alternative to everything. What will it take, folks?
nonplussed @ 105
Yeah, that’s probably pretty accurate. It would, however, be immensely amusing for everybody else in the courtroom. Suicidal fools who think they can get mouthy with a Judge are always funny.
Sally @ 153
And, obviously, being a fan of the Lake, I am not, either. I know Obama would not deploy troops immediately to Pakistan without some negotiations and UN committment.
Having a fundraiser and being best buds are two different things.
Get Tough @ 155, people didn’t think Bush would invade Iraq without negotiations and UN commitment.
selise @ 148
No, I don’t know him personally. I know someone who went to Harvard at the same time and played basketball with him, and we talk from time to time (he doesn’t necessarily keep in touch with him, either, especially right now). Obama is a revelation. The NYT article about him was perfect: Pragmatic, shrewd, and brilliant. Plus, he has some sharp elbows. I defend him, maybe a little too much, because it seems he doesn’t get the love at the Lake that I think he should.
Sally @ 156
The head of Fox News does a fund raiser for a Dem candidate (already in the pocket of corporate America) and he doesn’t expect payback? They were both certainly smiling like things were nice and cozy.
Sally @ 157
Bush-Cheney is not Obama. He has far more intelligence, integrity, and morals. To even talk about Obama and Bush in the same breadth is nuts. Plus Bush is in with the rapturites and the neo-con facists – far from Obama’s croud.
The ‘tell’ is the fact that these (and others in other investigations) are
prepared to be seen as slow/stupid/unqualified etc. Its a smokescreen, these people have been doing ‘this’ for a long time. You don’t get to the power/positions etc, these folks have by being any of the above..(these are not the fresh young ‘goodlings*’)
It’s a mindf**k.
They are dirty, they know it, they know we know. So they are copping to stupidity/duh!pidity/perjury/obstruction of justice/g*dhood etc
On another thread a while back, someone told the story of how a client of theirs? knowing that an investigation was getting too close, deliberately destroyed evidence/documents and was charged with that.
When asked why, he supposedly said ‘it was better to do the time for destruction of evidence than have ‘what’ was in the evidence become known’..
That’s what this lot are apparently doing.
Also, Mr Rumsfeld seems not to have ’seen’ many memos etc. That of course, could be taken as ‘I had my eyes closed and the memo was read out loud/paraphrased behind me’….remember this man has been covering his a** for a very long time. He is good at it.
However, they know, that we know :) WE are getting closer and closer to the truth..
Bet there are a lot of folks getting very, very nervous.
We are getting closer than we have ever have to closing them down. Every investigation has brought more and more to light. We are now beginning to ‘look’ directly at the players at the top of the ‘food chain’.
Its all good and the more we know, the more connections/relationships are becoming obvious.
And for the folks who afraid that somehow all this will just be passed over like so much before,
Hmmm, that’s up to us.
We know who these people are, we are getting a clearer picture of what they have done and too many of the same people, who were allowed to walk ‘last time’ are still playing.
OT ‘Americans’ sadly are seen by too many people throughout the world as grasping/greedy/self absorbed/ etc.
Pat Tillman’s (and all our troops and their families too) courage and belief in their country shows that ‘we’ are not all as the world sees us.
Pat could have just done USO shows (NO slam on USO) a couple of times a month/year. Nobody would have thought badly of him, but he CHOSE to give up millions, a safe lavish life style, to enlist in the marines, live, fight and be killed in the deserts in the Middle East (for a war he knew was wrong) because he wanted to protect/defend his country and his people.
Pat Tillman should be honored as the patriot he was and these bloody people in the Military/White house who have their fingers all over this ‘friendly fire accident’ deserve everything they get.
Sorry Mods and posters I know its a long post, but I feel much better now… Thanks for being patient and letting me vent :)
Richmond @ 160
It’s a good point. No matter what criticisms we level against any of the Democratic candidates (even Hillary he said biting his tongue) they are all light years ahead of the cretinous bigots the Republicans are running.
Well said, Jackie.
Biodun @ 40
Sorry…in the words of Earl Warren, “Not in our lifetime.”
On GOPer’s praise for Hillary, however slight it might be.
The GOP is not going to win the 2008 election for the WH. Hillary gets the nod from Dems and gets elected.
Who better to eviscerate Social Security and Medicare like her husband wiped out welfare. They need a Dem DLCer to do the dirty work that aGOP president couldn’t get away with.
And unless we make sure that electronic voting machines are not used anywhere and Jim Crow election laws like the Georgia voter ID law are challenged and changed, can we really be certain about the outcome of the 08 election?
I have been thinking that Bushco was going to pull something to call off the elections, but now I think the elections might just be permitted so that the GOP agenda of completely dismantling the New Deal can be furthered by the election of another Clinton.
And I’m not within 40 meters of tin foil.
Get Tough @ 139
First, I think Obama is a bright guy. His fantastic speeches reflect that. I also see, at moments, that he mimics and follows the lead of others and is therefore both shallow and sometimes inaccurate in his policy suggestions. Given time to reflect I think he could be very good. And, I think people recognize that and that’s why he’s one of the top contenders.
Per Pakistan: It irks me that he doesn’t seem to recall (or care to consider) the very recent discussion about a potential attack in Pakistan to take out Zawahiri. Does Obama really think he knows, at this point, how to relate to Musharraf and Pakistan? Who could without some actual face time and study? Yet he makes this pronouncement which not only seems wrong, but is certainly specific about the US going into Pakistan and it warns whomever is listening. These are not good things to talk about.
I think Clinton and Edwards were right on target (which is why I don’t criticize Edwards for parroting Clinton’s statement) about not committing to meeting foreign leaders with whom American relations are strained without taking time and preparing. Obama should haveve also left himself wiggle-room and not felt compelled to ‘lead’ by committing this way.
I note he now seems to get that ‘leadership’ is important. Maybe in time he’ll have it in his bones as well as in his mind.