Shooter is having a gingko moment of his own:
On Sunday, Josh Marshall pointed out that the New York Times editorial on the potential need to impeach Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said that “Vice President Dick Cheney sent Mr. Gonzales and another official to Mr. Ashcroft’s hospital room to get him to approve the wiretapping.” As Marshall noted, before the editorial, Cheney’s involvement in the incident had never been established.
Today on CNN, in a preview of his interview with the Vice President tonight, Larry King said he asked Cheney about the allegation. “I asked the Vice President about that and the story that he was the one that asked him to go,” said King. “And he said he had no recollection.”
“He did not want to deal with specifics, which tells me, they’re looking at trouble,” King added. “If you don’t want to deal with specifics…I think you’re looking at trouble and you’re looking the other way if you’re denying it.”
Unless they’re all banding together in a grand “I am Spartacus” gesture — and I don’t think they’re that clever — I think we probably don’t risk much by assuming that means “yes.”
I can’t think of a creepier moment in recent BushCo history than Andy Card saying that he and Abu were just there to “wish him well.” It’s certainly not a stretch to see Cheney indulging himself in a Tony Soprano shoulder roll and launching the two of them on the hospitalized man like that.
Kinda like having a bunch of tame little birdies released in front of your gun and hoping you’re not too tanked up to hit ‘em.
Related posts:
- Cheney Refused to Release the Journalists
- Liz Cheney Warns Against “Walking Away” from Afghanistan, Apparently Forgetting that Dick Cheney Walked Away from Afghanistan
- Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, and the “Unremarkable” Meat Grinder
- Cheney: Torturers Can Do No Wrong
- Laura Ingraham on “This Week”: Dick Cheney “Cuts Through” on Afghanistan Because “His Numbers Are Going Up”
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Dick Cheney Controls Tim Russert
jane!
uno!
Me?
Good afternoon Jane. Mendacious. That’s my word for the afternoon.
And Tillman.
Shooter sure is creepy.
Yet another “Godfather” moment.
Mendacious!
used in a sentence…
“mmm, this ice cream is Mendacious!”
;
Dick Cheney’s new battery malfunctioned.
Actually, I am only half joking. Chronic heart disease can impair cognitive ability. And he does seem to have become increasingly mono-syllabic in recent years. More like a series of grunts.
SO far these fascists are winning. But the walls are cracking and the dems, the press and most importantly the blogs need to keep the pressure up on these crooks.
Mike Barnicle (Hardball): Did [Gonzales] lie to congress?
Congressman Inslee: My mother asked me not to use that kind of language as a congressman. But he was deceptive.
Inslee has proposed legislation to impeach Gonzo.
when Larry asks the question that Shooter can’t remember the answer to, it looks like he got a little defib in that moment (his head jerks over to one side)
Hi Jane!
It’s like a keetle of popcorn the way these posts are poppin’ today.
How Edwin Meese’s Testimony before the Iran-Contra Committee Changed My Life:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ragua.html
Twenty years ago… anyone remember it?
I thought I was Spartacus.
Balrog @ 4
Yes, you!
Yeah, they just went to wish Ashcroft well in the middle of the night, and Abu Gonzales just happened to be carrying around an authorization order for Ashcroft to sign.
I’m tired of these criminals, and a pox on the Democrats (Nancy, that’d be you) who think operating the government like business as usual is the most important thing.
scarlet p. @ 15
The Doctrine of Plausible Deniability.
Am watching Inslee on “Hardball” — most impressive.
Cannon on the other hand……
Cannon on hardballs needs to be reminded that Clinton was “prosecuted”.
puppethead @ 18
I second that pox.
*xyz @ 1
Nice one.
puppethead @ 18
you know, that really was a ghoulish moment in time, wholly depraved.
Still no letter from Gonzales.
Specter not prepared to say whether Abu lied or not.
“Everybody who has looked at it has decided that [Gonzo] did not commit perjury.” Rep. Chris Cannon (R) Judiciary Committee.
Another Ed Meese moment for Scarlet?
Loo Hoo. @ 25
no, LooHoo, it’s out here.
There was a commenter on here who tried repeatedly to bring your attention to the NYT statement that Cheney sent them to the hospital. Check the threads.
Woodhall Hollow @ 19
I don’t know how plausible their denials were but it sure works for them to.this.day.
Shooter’s in on the parsing games, too:
Of ocurse, it was just ‘The Program’, and didn’t become the ‘Terrorist Surveillance Program’ until well after Bush fessed up to it. Nothing new, my arse. Nothing new to Darth Stovepipe, perhaps, but it’s still hidden from us.
Elliott @ 24
They probably would have smothered him with a pillow and forged his signature, except other people were in the room.
Midnight at the away, Sis.
Send your camel to bed
Shadows paintin’ our faces
Traces of
romancesurveillance in our headsRe: the letter from NSI about alberto’s testimony.
In order for tat letter tobe true, Mueller, Hayden, Comey and Ashcroft have to be wrong.
Mueller confirmed AFTER this parsing issue came up.
They are willing to throw Mueller and Hayden under the bus to protect Gonzo. Cause somebody is lying, if it ain’t Gonzo it’s the other 4.
BTW, and I’m not gonna commit tothis until I’ve seen the actual letter and done some parsing of my onw, but the bits read on CNN don’t actually support Gonzo’s position.
So what if there were 100 other “aspects” of the program other than warrantless wiretapping? Comey and Mueller clearlysaid that it was the warratnless wiretapping that was the source of the disagreement.
punaise @ 32
707!
If you are watching Hardball, it is pronounced Vee-Ko, not Vigh-co.
That’s the letter from the Director of National Intelligence, OldCoastie, not from Abu.
OldCoastie @ 12
Link, please.
BigMitch @ 35
I thought it was Ve-co with a short e!
Spectre still thinks he’s chair of the committee-of-one. I will accept the terms of Rove testifying to move the process forward.
SeamusD @ 37
sorry, noticed it on the preview on CNN tv…
Fill in the blank
Alberto Gonzales is the Life Support System for ______________
I loath Alberto Gonzales as much as the next guy — maybe more because as a Latino I’m pissed that *this* is the guy who got the “First Latino Attorney General” designation.
BUT I have to say the “Abu” designation for him is bordering on the racist and is stunning to me. We need to be above this sort of thing. It smacks of the sort of thing Rush Limbaugh would use.
I’d love it if you’d apologize for the usage. What’s next “Paco Gonzales?” “Speedy.”
Where’s our vaunted sense of respecting diversity. Come up with a better moniker that speaks to his horrid activities without insulting Latinos.
OldCoastie @ 27
Well, that’s bullshit. The ‘Terrorist Surveillance Program’ didn’t exist as a discrete entity in March 2004. So even if Abu wasn’t contradicting himself, he was deliberately misleading Congress and the public.
Woodhall Hollow @ 38
Heck, NO!
I need to add something to the previous thread and I don’t want it missed, this is something to think about;
Tillman cast aside his contract in professional sports, every American’s dream
he did that to enlisted in our armed forces because he felt “a calling”.
He was convinced he would be able to protect this country against her enemies and he would be able to provide a service that went beyond his career.
And now look at what he has done for his counry, your country, my country.
His service right now is the service he was called.
He is fighting for our country right now and he won’t rest until the despots are brought before teh bar of justice to answer for their crimes against this country and her constitution
This is the Tillman story
I saw a clip of Tony Snow on Specter and the letter today. Snow said that Specter “agreed” to be read into the program. WTF is up with that? Why not Leahy?
Elliott @ 29
I remember two things about Ed Meese. 1. He toured the country and said he saw no poverty (No lie here. You don’t see poverty on a Palm Springs golf course.) 2. He campaigned to exempt the executive branch and their appointees from the law. (It’s been in the making for a very long time.)
McJoan over on the frontpage at Kos
http://www.dailykos.com/
has a piece saying the the Dems are going along with plans to reform FISA before recess.
She is alarmed , me too
snowbird42 @ 48
When will they ever learn?
Dan Vera @ 42
Um, his horrid activities involve greenlighting the kind of practices that led to Abu Ghraib. Hence, ‘Abu G’. Attorney General, Abu Ghraib, Alberto Gonzales.
Your concern is noted.
SeamusD @ 37
if it was his de fib, it wasn’t working cause that was surely a fib
puppethead @ 31
Looks like Comey knew who he was dealing with and that’s why he called Mueller.
Dan Vera @ 42
abu as in Ghraib and the Gonzalez torture memo attesting to the quaintness of Geneva…
Here’s an aside about VECO.
Anchorage used to have two daily newspapers, one of the smallest towns in America to have this. VECO purchased The Times, and sold out to the Daily News. Part of the deal was that the President of Veco got a half page on the op-ed page for what was called “The Voice of the Times.” It was very right wing, of course. That president, Bill Allen, recently pled guilty to an indictment which described his company as “having no previous experience in residential re-modelling business.”
Dan Vera @ 42
The “Abu” designation stems from his torture memo which resulted in the abuses at Abu Grabe. Long time readers will recall that he was originally referred to as Abu G, just as he is sometimmes now referred to a AGAG (Attorney General Alberto Gonzales)
There is nothing racist about it. The Abu designation refers to his despicable actions, not his ethnicity.
Hope that clears things up for you.
ccmask @ 41
Other Intelligence Activities. (I wanted to say..I..do..not..recall..)
perris @ 45
Right Fuckin’ on!
Dan Vera @ 42
That is for Abu Ghraib Gonzales. Abu Ghraib is not Spanish.
Dan Vera @ 42
May I ask, Are you aware Abu is an earned nickname originating from his torture related war crimes?
Dan Vera @ 42
I think the nickname came from the Abu Ghraib prison, Gonzales being the torture-general that he is. Never meant as a reference to his being a Latino.
puppethead @ 31
Exactly. Or injected him with some strange mind control medication so he wouldn’t remember they held his hand in a forced signature. Thwarted, they were! Darn!
punaise @ 32
Damn, Maria Muldaur’s voice just does something to me.
Thus far, Mr. High Nooner Specter seems just a gas bag.
snowbird42 @ 48
fecking Spectre hit that talking point….
snowbird42 @ 48
No effing way. They want to legalise what they’ve done post hoc, so that their asses are covered when the dirt comes out. They are deeply, deeply worried about this, hence the rollout of Chertoff’s Gut Alert and the combined efforts of Bush and Abu G to push FISA ‘reform’.
Perris at 45
What a lovely take on it. Maybe it was his fate to serve BY his death.
It has sort of a mystical quality to it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
In other news, water still wet. This act that he’s still making the calls (I’ll accept Rove’s testimony offer) is galling.
QuakerGirl @ 61
I was just rapt listening to Comey tell that story, I had no idea. Lights & Sirens to beat BushCo to Ashcroft’s bedside!
one of those gasp moments
Snowbird and Prarie Sunshine:
snowbird42 @ 48
This is a textbook case of the Party-of-the-Least-Worst colluding against the people and the Constitution.
They’re just doing what they do best.
How is that restoration of Habeas Corpus coming along, Congressional (D)’s?
[raises hand timidly]
Question…..is someone going to be posting here while you all are at YKos?
If not, I gotta start loading up on methadone, or something…..God forbid I should spend my time WORKING during the day……
I think what makes these guys so unbelievable is that they are stereotype villains. They are the Victorian black dressed (no matter what color they wear) sneaky villain who couldn’t do a good thing if he tried. Just driven to no good. Rotten to the core.
looseheadprop @ 66
I think his mother and brother have said that this is not about Pat, this is what they have done to Pat; this is about what they have done to our country.
EPU
NNam Vet on Tillman
We have misgivings that the Bush crowd will be giving anything away in ‘the’ letter. Is it tomorrow that the Congress begins being even lazier than usual for a month?
Well, Atrios’s site is dead and so is haloscan. I suspect when Cheney wants to fuck over the world, these will be the first indications. His ilk will pull the plug on people like thers and watertiger and phila so fast it will make the 1930s brown shirts look like pikers.
pseudonymous in nc @ 65
Dan Vera, I don’t believe I have seen you here before. Thank you for de-lurking, and urging sensativity. In this case, I hope your concerns have been laid to rest. We look forward to seeing you more in the future.
Mitch
(This is NOT sarcastic.)
Everyone who joins the armed forces does so by choice. I think anyone who chooses to put their life in harm’s way deserve the same amount of respect.
It’s tragic what happended to Tillman. People of all means sacrafice their dreams to serve, just because he walked away from a big contract in my mind doesn’t make him any more of hero then someone of average means whose life is just as valuable to their family and friends.
Loo Hoo. @ 25
Maybe it got lost in his Out Box.
Why are there two letters?
QuakerGirl @ 79
Maybe Toney Snow had it wrong and the NSI letter is THE letter?
Whoregan on Hardballs…don’t look…
As we re-live the moment:
Somewhere deep underground in his hardened bunker, Deadeye takes a short break from potting rats with his laser shotgun to meet with a couple of his toadies:
Deadeye, after removing his headphones: I thought I told you to get his signature?
Gonzo: Bu…bu…but he woke up before we got the pen in his hand.
Deadeye: Drat! Without his fingerprints, it won’t work. And just what the hell were you doing Joker?
Card: I…I…I was holding the paper.
Deadeye: Double-Drat! I knew I should have sent Scooter and the boys.
Gonzo: Ple…ple…please Boss, give us another chance! I bet he’ll go back to sleep soon. Puleeeeeeeze?
Deadeye: Nope! Can’t do! Won’t do! As your punishment, Gonzo you’re gonna have to take his job as Attorney General. And Joker, you’re gonna “retire”. Just be glad you ain’t sleeping with the fishes!
Card: Bo…Bo…Boss! Puleeeeeze! Not that!
Gonzo: Bu…bu…but they’ll find out I don’t know shit about the law?
Deadeye: That’s the point! Now get outa here, both of you! And send Junya in, willya? He’s gonna have to tell a couple more whoppers.
And so it goes; just another
daynight of work for the living dead. More victims, more pleasure!raven @ 73
Oooffff. This was what I was trying to say on the prior thread. He’s a lot blunter about it than I was… (and I was getting queasy just thinking about what finding a ’shot group’ implied.)
well i’ve had enough.
Elliott @ 68
Calling Matt Damon….
lhp @ 66: “It has sort of a mystical quality to it.”
Especially considering Tillman was an avowed atheist.
I thought I heard Snowjob this morning say something like, “no, the WH won’t be sending the letter – it’ll come from the DOJ or the NSA or someplace…”
but my mind is old.
Mad dogs
You made me laugh out loud
Why was it not front page news that Ashcroft, Mueller, Comey and other high DOJ officials were ready to resign over this illegal spying? This country and the media are suffering from a big time case of scandal fatigue if this isn’t a huge story in and of itself.
I use “Abu” to refer to Gonzales because of his enabling of torture, not because he’s Latino. Gonzales deserves a nickname that ties him to “Abu” Ghraib, which for many of us was the first time we because aware that our country was abusing human rights with the wost of ‘em.
Once again, someone in the administration says “I do not recall” rather than “I CANNOT recall.”
They’ve been coached that there’s a difference, and each one of them uses it:
cannot — unable to
do no — statement of condition: at this moment, I am not recalling . . . guess they put themselves in a happy place — a field of daisies.
Haha! They cannot keep their friggin story straight. Cheney confirms to Larry King that the hospital visit was about the TSP–that Comey testified dispute as to.
Q In that regard, The New York Times — which, as you said, is not your favorite — reports it was you who dispatched Gonzales and Andy Card to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft’s hospital in 2004 to push Ashcroft to certify the President’s intelligence-gathering program. Was it you?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don’t recall — first of all, I haven’t seen the story. And I don’t recall that I gave instructions to that effect.
Q That would be something you would recall.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I would think so. But certainly I was involved because I was a big advocate of the Terrorist Surveillance Program, and had been responsible and working with General Hayden and George Tenet to get it to the President for approval. By the time this occurred, it had already been approved about 12 times by the Department of Justice. There was nothing new about it.
Q So you didn’t send them to get permission.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don’t recall that I was the one who sent them to the hospital.
Thanks Mitch. I love this place and check it out every day.
Dan Vera @ 89
What’s Apu?
Brisingamen @ 84
I’m with ya.
I think it is really f******g irresponsible for this August recess to go forward with everything that is imploding all around us. Who the hell do these people think they are? And who else gets a entire month’s paid vacation, along with all the other perks they’ve got coming out of their assholes, with MY tax dollars?
Someone stop me b4 I vote for Ralph Nader again……
LS @ 94
Apu runs the Quickee Mart on the Simpson’s
Dan Vera @ 42
The use of “Abu” dates to the Abu Ghraib torture and Gonzales’ denials of such in his confirmation hearings. Normally, Abu is an honorary term; if anything, we’re demeaning the word “Abu” and those fathers out there who use it by referring to Gonzales with it. But for those who understand the context, it basically communicates “He Who Condones Torture” Gonzales.
Abu is short for Abuse
Dan Vera @ 91
OK showing my ignorance here:
What does Apu mean? Why is it offensive?
raven @ 73
Everyone riled up about (or just curious about) Pat Tillman’s death should go to the link you’ve provided, Raven.
Other Pat @ 91
Can’t say I am recalling. Some words are not correctly used in the present progressive tense, such as I am believing, I am knowing, etc. God, what an obnoxious grammar police comment I just posted. Forgive me.
Woodhall Hollow @ 46
I saw a clip of Tony Snow on Specter and the letter today. Snow said that Specter “agreed” to be read into the program. WTF is up with that? Why not Leahy?
I called Leahy’s office yesterday morning to ask the same question. Got no real answer, but the staffer was supposed to call me back. didn’t happen.
Specter said that “other senators” were there too, but he didn’t name them. I’m betting that none of them were Democratic senators.
Why is there a letter from McConnell and a letter awaited from Gonzo?
Millineryman @ 78
A lot of folks who are in the service are there due to their inability to find decent work. It is somewhat less voluntary than Tillman’s situation. I suspect that many had dreams that were unattainable due to poverty, etc. This in no way makes their service to our country less important than Tillman’s. Perhaps it is even more profound. But Tillman’s stature as a football hero was transformed into war hero. He was sacrificed because he was going to talk to the press about his opposition to the war in Iraq. The other soldiers have been sacrificed because they were expendable. Same result. Different reason.
jayt @ 103
It might have been Feinstein, Feingold, and Whitehouse.
I called Leahy’s office yesterday morning to ask the same question. Got no real answer, but the staffer was supposed to call me back. didn’t happen.
Specter said that “other senators” were there too, but he didn’t name them. I’m betting that none of them were Democratic senators.
LS @ 106
We’re not sure that there are 2 letters. Snow may have been imprecise or we may have misunderstood, or WH could have changed stragey after Snow presser.
LS @ 106
Possibly Feinstein, Feingold, and Whitehouse.
yellowsnapdragon says
July 31st, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Other Pat @ 91
Once again, someone in the administration says “I do not recall” rather than “I CANNOT recall.”
They’ve been coached that there’s a difference, and each one of them uses it:
cannot — unable to
do no — statement of condition: at this moment, I am not recalling . . . guess they put themselves in a happy place — a field of daisies.
—————-
Can’t say I am recalling. Some words are not correctly used in the present progressive tense, such as I am believing, I am knowing, etc. God, what an obnoxious grammar police comment I just posted. Forgive me.
——————-
——————
Right, but they could say, “I can recall,” “I cannot recall,” “If I recall correctly.”
My point is that instead of “can,” which speaks of the ability to do something, every one of them says, “do not,” which simply means that at that moment he/she is not bringing the memory or fact to mind to tell to someone else.
Wish every hearing (and interview) would include the follow-up: “But can you remember?”
see ya’ll tomorrow pups.
looseheadprop @ 101
In Arabic, “Abu” is an honorific, meaning “father of.”
Ghraib means either Raven/Crow or strange/sinister place. Probably related since Crows and Ravens are almost universally associated with magic and bad omens.
“Why not Leahy?”
’cause shrub is exercising his executive privilege to pretend that his party didn’t lose control of Congress in ‘04
nice seein’ ya, lhp…
looseheadprop @ 107
Specter said on Wolf that he’s still waiting to get Gonzo’s letter. He said there was something in McConnell’s letter that didn’t seem right in light of the testimony or something to that effect.
raven @ 96
raven, that’s horrifying. Did you read what Bryan O’Neal said? (He’s the nineteen year old Ranger who credits Tillman with saving his life.)
looseheadprop @ 109
or……they could have just fucked up. Stranger things have happened.
More Bush administration amnesia, eh? Are all of these people sucking high-voltage lines for kicks, or is it just possible that telling the truth under oath is a wee bit problematic?
comments are in a word interesting today….. and abu is STILL the AG
Despite growing disapproval of Congress, Democratic House candidates — both incumbents and challengers — are steadily gaining ground for a 2008 election likely to be a repeat of 2006, according to two surveys (here and here) by Democracy Corps.
The surveys dispute the hardening conventional wisdom that the failure of Democrats to force the start of withdrawal from Iraq has turned voters against both parties. The notion that the public sees Democrats and Republicans as “equal offenders…completely misreads the current moment,” according to Democracy Corps.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..58592.html
Boston1775 @ 116
Yep. You ever read the real story of Lt Calley? The command from Battalion down wanted dead Vietnamese. This one dumb-ass LT that shouldn’t have been in charge of a shit burning detail got shafted, the rest of them walked.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 121
It’s time for an electoral euthanasia of the Republican Party. It’s the patriotic thing to do.
Sick enough?
Vice President Cheney says there are no allegations of wrongdoing in the firing of the U.S. attorneys.
“First of all, there’s no charge,” Cheney said. “What’s the allegation of wrongdoing here? Frankly, there isn’t any.”
“They keep rolling over rocks hoping they can find something, but there really hasn’t been anything come up that would suggest there was any wrongdoing of any kind,” Cheney told CNN’s Larry King, adding that he did not feel that Bush senior political adviser Karl Rove need testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee on the matter.
“The president feels strongly — and I do too, I agree with him — that it’s important for us to pass on these offices we occupy to our successors in as good a shape as we found them. And that means protecting and preserving the integrity of those processes,” Cheney said.
Boston 1775 @ 28, I mentioned on a few blogs that Cheney sent the boys to the hospital scene according to the Times. I believe one other commenter here read it.
There are two letters. Specter did not receive the one from the AG the last I heard. I’m kind of enjoying Specter being taking for a ride for the umpteenth time by the crooks and liars in the White House. And I wish someone will tell him he was voted out as Chairman of the Judiciary Committee so should go to the back bench and SHUT UP.
I don’t get Cheney’s actions at the moment. What does he have to gain, maybe besides avoiding jail time, but I highly doubt that would happen. He is not worried about his legacy; he doesn’t care to run for any office again; he is filthy rich, and has made his small cadre of friends very rich in the process; he can’t push legislation like permanent tax breaks for the rich anymore, he can’t push privatizing social security, and his attempts at hiding everything and building a unitary executive is unravelling day to day because of the Democratic/Grown Up Congress. So, besides just being an a**hole, and a mean-spirited, if there is a Hell he should be on the first shuttle down, hypocritical, evil person, what motivation does he have to keep going on as the VP?
scarlet p. @ 15
I remember it well. Thanks for your post. Well said.
Folks–go read this. It really looks like Cheney slipped up big time and told Larry King that the program that Gonzales and Card were sent to bully Ashcroft about was indeed the TSP–which is the program that Comey would not authorize, and that Gonzales lied about when he said that there was no internal dispute about.
Now I ask you, who would Mrs. Ashcroft obey: the dummy or the guy with his hand up the dummy’s backside? You do THE math.
LS @ 80
Pacifier.
Off topic, but Go Jayhawks. The University of Kansas is refusing to cooperate with RIAA. After all, RIAA is not that much different from NSA, TSP, GE, OVP, Diebolt, Halliburton, or the NRA.
==================
The University is refusing to forward pre-litigation letters from the recording industry to it’s students on the grounds that doing so could be an invasion of student privacy.
Earlier this month, the Recording Industry Association of America sent 408 pre-litigation settlement letters to 23 universities. The University of Kansas will notify individual students by mail if it received a complaint connected to a student’s IP address. The University will not, however, forward students the RIAA pre-litigation letter, which gives them the opportunity to settle out of court.
So is Cheney pushing Bush’s golden boy under the bus?
Woodhall Hollow @ 128
Nice and succint. Add another witness to rebut Abu’s testimony.
oddmommy @ 98
You’re not the only one. I’m so sick of the spinless Dems. The WH is playing Leahy for a chump by going through their boy Specter who has already worked out a deal with the WH to make the DOJ scandal just go away. It’s nothing more than an end around and Leahy is caught like a deer in the head lights.
Raven – that “shot group” story is compelling. Also, the remark about “other” possible non-troops being there.
I believe he was taken out, because of his evolving political beliefs and celebrity. Then there was a cover-up that took advantage of his celebrity to advertise the war. It sounds planned to me. I hate to think it, but I do.
who is this nitwit on *ucker sticking up for Fredrick of Hollywood?
raven @ 123
cheney lies everytime he goes public, that’s why he goes public in the first place
if he means to say it it’s a lie, the only time you might get the truth from him is if he slips up
So,when these pricks find out their bud,John Ashcroft is in the hospital,under heavy sedation,their first thought isn’t about if he’s ok or even so much the passing thought one would give to an ailing coworker. Nooo,their thought is how they can manipulate that situation to their political advantage? To see what illegal shit they could get the guy to sign off on? AFTER it was clear he had already relinquished his authority?
Heads need to start rolling here,SOON.
Opposition parties in the Reichstag had an opportunity to stand up to Hitler in 1933-34 but they decided to wait and see and hope for better results in the next election. How did that work out Democrats?
Brisingamen @ 84
Was Tillman buried? If they need to double check facts…
The timing of Cheney’s interview is no coinkydink.
raven, the kid does not think that anyone was close enough to shoot Pat Tillman close range. He just doesn’t remember that way.
Bryan O’Neal was also preparing to die, thought he died when blood pooled up around him, and could not believe he was alive. (He repeatedly asked if people could see him; he thought he was a ghost.)
O’Neal says that Tillman told him he had an idea, reached out to throw smoke and was hit. The ESPN report says that he was not only hit in deadly forehead shots but was hit in the arm and had a hole in the leg.
raven, the thing that gets me is that the soldier in charge of one group (Blake, I think, I have to go back and check) started the shooting by pumping eight shots into an Afghani who was HELPING Tillman and O’Neal. The Rangers were taught to shoot where their leader was shooting, so Tillman and O’Neal were caught in the many shots fired.
Other soldiers were being shot at as well. One kid got shot clear through the knee while running for his life. He was close enough to identify his shooter. Another guy was shot and bleeding profusely from the mouth.
This was a freakin disaster.
Hmm. Curious logic, Shooter.
It is interesting, as Atrios and others have noted, that Cheney’s phraseology — conflating the acknowledged TSP with the Other Spying Shit that was and may still be going on — doesn’t help Abu G. They can’t even get their lies straight now.
anangryoldbroad @ 138
yes, but……it’s RECESS time! See ya in September!
Sally @ 124
So it was you. I should have spoken up and supported you. Nice catch.
Boston1775 @ 142
Then why did they burn his uniform?
Pondering for a moment: Cheney was a Congressperson for decades from Wyoming, never really challenged. Stevens for 4 decades, never really challenged. Ted Kennedy, Fienstein, Pelosi the same. All had a national platform for decades that allowed them to push their respective causes carte blanch, without much concern for the safety of their jobs. The difference, besides their political parties: The first two about money and corporations, and the last three about responsible governing and social justice.
If more so-called small town, middle income earning Republicans would wake up and realize that the Republican Party does not serve any purpose to better their lives but only “providing” for security and protection of their silly moral virtues, the Bushies and their progeny would be toast.
Vote fraud doesn’t happen when Democrats win, only when they lose.
country’s falling into the crapper – but but its time for a RECESS – call the recess off and do some serious work in DC ok dems
juslin @ 148
I think the democratic led Congress would make a huge splash by eliminating, or at least shortening, their recess this year.
Get Tough @ 149
yes!
I find it personally offensive that the MSM continues to report the garbage cheney spews as though it actually MEANS something.
“cheney supports Gonzales.”
“cheney disagrees with Libby verdict.”
“cheney call us attorney investigation a witch hunt.”
“Wile E. Coyote denies chasing Roadrunner.”
the repugs keeps giving dems ammo – and the dems turn away…..
juslin @ 149
I really wish there was someone dogging each and every congresscritter,everywhere they go while they’re on vacation,telling them to Go Back To Work. Our troops don’t get August off,neither do most people with a Real Job. What freaking nerve.
Wondering what people think .. would the following speculative scenario, if proven, make shrub’s impeachment a political imperative? i. Tillman was fragged by others in his platoon for whatever reason and acting on their own, ii. Rove or some other WH politico type was informed of the murder and promptly communicated this to Big Time and maybe shrub himself, iii. concerned about fallout from an embarassing revelation on the eve of he ‘04 election, WH orchestrates a coverup under Big Time’s personal direction.. Would this prompt Pelosi et al and the American people to demand shrubco’s removal? I genuinely don’t know anymore.
oddmommy @ 151
I find many, many things offensive in the MSM. Which is why, by and large, I ignore the MSM. There are many better sources of information in this digital age, anyway.
Get Tough @ 147
Problem is, the Dems don’t get that message out. Too many are Blue Dog or DLC type Democrats that are corporate sell outs(see Steny Hoyer and Joe Biden).
Boston @ 145, thank you.
Honestly, who is the lesser of two evils? Dobbs or F*cker??? F*cker; “Why are the Dems overreaching?” Huh? :~)
LS,
Why did they burn his uniform, you ask. And I’ll continue, why did they burn his diary?
I surely don’t know – but if you go to the ESPN series, a soldier says that that is common. You can’t hold onto blood soaked items for health purposes.
Let’s say that’s true; bloodsoaked uniforms are burned. Why not just say that?
Here’s another question: Why make his whole death scene up when you have a kid who has said from the very beginning that Pat Tillman saved his life?
Blub @ 154
Rove is probably just baiting the Grown Ups in Congress to impeach, because he may be thinking that it would improve Dubya’s numbers, and thereby his own, like it did for Clinton, on the way out, and every little Bushie progeny could use that information in the future as propoganda.
Does anyone have enough stomach to watch Tucker “Co-k su-ker” Carlson? He has Stephanie Cutter on. A so-called Democratic Strategist on. She argues that AGAG shouldn’t be impeached. That Congress has to focus on getting things done. That Congress has more important things to do than worry about AGAG. What a bithering idiot she is. No matter what Congress accomplishes, the Decider is gonna veto it. She is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Tucker read a bit of “the letter” and was unimpressed. Anyone seen the actual letter?
Boston1775 @ 160
Because it was a military cluster-fuck.
new thread
Get Tough @ 147
yes…..it is nothing short of mind-boggling how these people let themselves be duped into voting against their own interests.
I had a professor in law school who loved to say dismissively, “People are sheep.” In my early 20’s innocence I rebelled. Now I revere his wisdom.
LS @ 146
Body armor, diary, the autopsy itself. We have Concealment of Evidence of a Crime. Quite impeachable.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 157
Very true, but I think therein lies an angle to be played: Biden and the rest of the Blue Dogs should start beating the drums and saying, “Look, we are pro-business, but we also are pro-liberal democracy, human rights, and the like. The Bushies and the hard-core Republicans are business only. So, you small-town middle income people, we provide you the cake, and you can eat it, too!!” It just irks me when I travel thru the Midwest and I see rusted out cars with tape holding the mirrors on, with Bush/Cheney bumper stickers. Arg!
Not a good day for David Vitter:
raven @ 164
and twisted to suit Rumsfeld, Rove and the rest of the war criminals.
I gotta sign off for awhile. Thanks for reality. Sad, but at least we talk reality here.
raven @ 164
Because Tillman wasn’t your average soldier. Some of the others probably knew about his diary and felt threatened some how. After all, Tillman was supposedly gonna talk to that America hater(in Joe Klein’s own words), Noam Chomsky.
Get Tough @ 147
point taken, but DiFi Inc. (DFNK on the NYSE) is pretty darn pro-biz (not necessarily to the exclusion of occasional principled stands on other matters).
Woodhall Hollow @ 169
1,590 times!!!! These guys are either shlepping with each other in the closet like a bunch of bonobos, or shooting off their pistol at a record pace with hookers. Why isn’t this crap in the scandal rags, and why the scandal rag two-bit skag quartet is, baffles me.
I have a new theory about the Gonzo letter and why Specter says he doesn’t have it yet. Specter struck a deal:
He’ll get Gonzo’s resignation letter if the Dems agree to the FISA reform before leaving on recess (which is retroactive). So, if the Dems pass it tonight, Gonzo is gone. Specter’s holding the bait. Perhaps they have agreed to a mutually agreeable replacement. Hence, Cheney feeling free to take questions about the TSP from Larry King.
Fred Garvin @ 148
This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Thieves who cheat their way into office need to be stopped no matter what party affiliation. What is needed are electronic voting machines to be fixed or removed. There is a lot of people advocating this. Where I get my intel on this is blackboxvoting.org
I don’t doubt at all the the election process was broken in 2004. Too many indescrepencies to be considered ‘fair’. I will not say ‘the republicans stole it’ because it is unfair and isolated incidences do not reveal an entire GOP conspiracy. But when you see the actual numbers reported, and the errors that exist (like 6000 additional votes for a candidate in a city with only 400 registered voters), you know there is a problem.
Boston1775 @ 160
He testified that when he wrote up what happened, someone altered it. Maybe he was threatened.
looseheadprop @ 76
The “program” is complete BS.
They can surveil anyone, anything, anytime they want (the terrorists) — as long as they are overseas, one example is this: what they used to do is surveil people in Britain, and Britain would surveil Americans and then they would just share the info with one another, but the Bushies are lazy and paranoid and didn’t want to go that route — Downing Street Memo anyone? — and because they know that what they are doing now is blatantly against, not only the law, but the Constitution and they don’t want to take the chance of someone with a conscience or someone they can’t touch — like a British government minister or parliament member — blowing the lid off their illegal “program”. If they’re after terrorists why wouldn’t they continue this agreement with the British?
They already use programs like Echelon to intercept communications from suspected terrorists like what they use at Menwith Hill
They don’t want oversight from something silly like judicial review (FISC) because that would reveal who/m they are surveiling. And one of the ways they’re doing an end run is using corporations like ATT to set up their data mining programs to see and hear what political opponents are saying.
This program has capabilities for 100 million wiretaps in the US and 500 million worldwide. This is story about a key stroke logger, which logs what is typed in real time.
The technology is there for them to use, and they are using it. But what they desire more than anything is for it to be legal, and not only that, retroactively legal.
If Congress goes along with “reforming” FISA, they might as well have some ceremony where Bush, Cheney, Reid and Pelosi take out one of the original drafts of the Constitution and set it on fire because that is what they are doing in real life
Brisingamen @ 84
Oh, brother. Well, that changed my idea of how ‘auto’ shots land on a live body. Sounds like the Army doctor knew this, too. Probably had had more than a little experience.
LS,
In the April hearing, soldiers testify that they were forced to not talk about Tillman’s death, not even tell his brother, Kevin, who was in the same unit as his brother. Kevin had been sent one way, Pat the other.
I tend to fall on the side that this was raven’s description as a “clusterfx8kx” and I see it as these arrogant sociopaths in the White House who decided to SPIN IT! *genuinely nauseous*.
I have got a bad feeling about this RECESS.
Could the netroots push this at Kos to ensure that Congress does not recess?
ANOTHER GONZO BOMBSHELL: ALBERTO BYPASSED A SICK ASHCROFT FOR JOHN MITCHELL
I just finished watching the Cheney interview on Larry King. I was yelling at the TV the whole time. I’ll have to review the transcript to find all of the things that got me yelling because I’m too ticked off right now to remember all of them. I know one thing Larry King does not do follow up very well at all. The way he allowed Cheney to lie about what Hiliary requested from the DOD was a travesty. Anyone who read about this story should know he was mischaracterizing her letter.
But the worst part about the show, aside from Mr. Cheney, was the panel of “reporters” at the end. Wolf Blitzer, Suzanne Malveaux, Stephen Hayes & Bob Woodward were pathetic (Malveaux was the best of this sorry bunch). At one point Wolf made the comment that he didn’t know that the VP gets his paycheck from the Senate. Good god, where has this man been. If you don’t even know a basic fact like this no wonder you just pass on the lies from the administration. Woodward made some comment that if Cheney gets paid by the Senate maybe the Senate should look into it or something to that effect. Sorry Bob but that was already suggested quite some time ago. Ahhhhhhhhh…both of them are just CLUELESS. You got the feeling from this panel that they were just there to “rate” Dick Cheney’s appearance on the show for style points, much as they do with the debates. The substance was not really discussed. I would so love to see Cheney interviewed by someone who actually knows the facts and is willing to do follow-up. But of course that will never happen. Sorry for the rambling post but I just have to spew.
AG “On the President’s behalf”
“Thugs With Crosses”
(Feb. 04 cognitorex blogspot)
Thugs in suits,
wearing crosses,
speaking Jesus,
doing trash.
Blood of Inquisitors,
long cold,
warms
Thugs in suits,
wearing crosses,
speaking Jesus,
doing trash.
The acting head of the Dept. of Justice and the FBI say to Cheney and his thugs that what they are proposing is illegal and they will not sign off or go along with it.
To which the Cheney’ White House responds by seeking a signature from Ashcroft who is at that time not legally capable of approving anything by dint of drugs, physical condition, signed authority transition documents and hospitalization laws in general.
In other words, despite the fact that heads of departments openly declared the Cheney’ thugs intents to be illegal, Cheney and his ethically deficient bed side errand boys were willing to proceed to end run the constitution with a non-binding signature of a non-serving Attorney General.
The goal of the bed side foray had no legal merit. These guys are mad blind morally and ethically. They are out of control.
Bastille Day,
Bastille Day,
Bastille Day,
puke!