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	<title>Comments on: Help Wanted: Making Poverty History at YKOS 07</title>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-860887</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;i work in the non-profit sector and have some internet resources i check regularly. it isn’t exactly what you’re looking for, per se, but it will perhaps provide you with some good leads.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/&quot;&gt;http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/&lt;/a&gt; - the foundation center’s philanthropy news digest online… talks about the work of American philanthropy both within our borders and beyond. lots of information and links to other resources.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i work in the non-profit sector and have some internet resources i check regularly. it isn’t exactly what you’re looking for, per se, but it will perhaps provide you with some good leads.</p>
<p><a href="http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/">http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/</a> &#8211; the foundation center’s philanthropy news digest online… talks about the work of American philanthropy both within our borders and beyond. lots of information and links to other resources.</p>
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		<title>By: Suezboo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859302</link>
		<dc:creator>Suezboo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859302</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;SO glad this is getting some air here and at YKos.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;World poverty is a set of interlinked problems, many of which can be ameliorated by empowering women. Yes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think we should ask the Elders what the priorities are in each part of the world. The Elders? A group of respected elder statesmen wanting to do their bit for the people, set up by Madiba at his recent 89th birthday party.viz :&lt;br /&gt;
From SA, Mandela, his wife, Graca Machel, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Muhammad Yunus, Kofi Annan, Jimmy Carter, Gro Harlem-Brundland (sp?), Mary Robinson,Ela Bhatt (India)and Li Zhaoxing (China).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now that group surely must have ideas. Won’t somebody consult the Elders?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Suez in SA&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SO glad this is getting some air here and at YKos.</p>
<p>World poverty is a set of interlinked problems, many of which can be ameliorated by empowering women. Yes.</p>
<p>I think we should ask the Elders what the priorities are in each part of the world. The Elders? A group of respected elder statesmen wanting to do their bit for the people, set up by Madiba at his recent 89th birthday party.viz :<br />
From SA, Mandela, his wife, Graca Machel, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Muhammad Yunus, Kofi Annan, Jimmy Carter, Gro Harlem-Brundland (sp?), Mary Robinson,Ela Bhatt (India)and Li Zhaoxing (China).</p>
<p>Now that group surely must have ideas. Won’t somebody consult the Elders?</p>
<p>Suez in SA</p>
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		<title>By: rwcole</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859293</link>
		<dc:creator>rwcole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;When the oceans are filled with our shit and the air is filled with our soot- there’s too damned many of us damn it!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the oceans are filled with our shit and the air is filled with our soot- there’s too damned many of us damn it!!</p>
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		<title>By: TribeScribe</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859253</link>
		<dc:creator>TribeScribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;BigMitch @ 129&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
2. Poverty is not caused by over-population. There is plenty of resources to go around. It is a question of the political will to git ‘er done.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The idea that there are plenty of resources to go around is open for debate.&lt;br /&gt;
Usable land mass and sustainable food, water and energy supplies are exactly&lt;br /&gt;
what’s at stake.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Go ahead and keep telling yourselves that the Earth’s population doubling in the near future is some kind of “outdated” factor.  That’s folly for idealists.  When I say integral,&lt;br /&gt;
I mean it’s mathematically impossible to parse out.  You say it’s correlational.  I say it’s a contributing factor.  And if we’re talking about sustainability regression equations, that’s splitting hairs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In a good regression equation, you can’t just drop factors because they have a lesser beta weight.  You make invalidate the whole equation.  Does that make sense?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m saying we’re reaching diminishing returns with the whole power to the people approach that you suggest, if we haven’t gone past critical mass already.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Folks on the population front are cognizant that the economic bubble about to burst in many industrialized nations.  Add to that the sheer concentration of people in what passes for habitable land (inviting epidemic) and what we’re gonna wind up with will be something between being forced to get by with less and trying to sustain the kind of empathy for one another that is usually borne out of disaster. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Otherwise, it’s still a resource grab, and apparently, almost a hard-wired one.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BigMitch @ 129</p>
<blockquote><p>
2. Poverty is not caused by over-population. There is plenty of resources to go around. It is a question of the political will to git ‘er done.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The idea that there are plenty of resources to go around is open for debate.<br />
Usable land mass and sustainable food, water and energy supplies are exactly<br />
what’s at stake.</p>
<p>Go ahead and keep telling yourselves that the Earth’s population doubling in the near future is some kind of “outdated” factor.  That’s folly for idealists.  When I say integral,<br />
I mean it’s mathematically impossible to parse out.  You say it’s correlational.  I say it’s a contributing factor.  And if we’re talking about sustainability regression equations, that’s splitting hairs.</p>
<p>In a good regression equation, you can’t just drop factors because they have a lesser beta weight.  You make invalidate the whole equation.  Does that make sense?  </p>
<p>I’m saying we’re reaching diminishing returns with the whole power to the people approach that you suggest, if we haven’t gone past critical mass already.</p>
<p>Folks on the population front are cognizant that the economic bubble about to burst in many industrialized nations.  Add to that the sheer concentration of people in what passes for habitable land (inviting epidemic) and what we’re gonna wind up with will be something between being forced to get by with less and trying to sustain the kind of empathy for one another that is usually borne out of disaster. </p>
<p>Otherwise, it’s still a resource grab, and apparently, almost a hard-wired one.</p>
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		<title>By: yellowsnapdragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859232</link>
		<dc:creator>yellowsnapdragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-859199&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;BigMitch @ 129&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Some observations from someone who is no expert:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1. Obstacles to making poverty issue number one:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.a. People who believe that this is the role of the church and not government.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;1.a.i. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are … endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, … . — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, …” H/T to Thom Jefferson. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.a.ii. Churches have a pecuniary interest in maintaining this facade.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.a.iii. If you would attack poverty, you must attack the churches who are taking money and not doing the Lord’s work. Be ready for a fight.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.b. People don’t trust the government to address this problem efficiently&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;1.b.i. Social security is the most efficient, secure and effective government program in the history of the world and it has reduced poverty hugely. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.c. People believe that the problem is so huge and intractable that they are unwilling to address it. (”The poor will always be among us.” — Jesus.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
1.c.i. “You are not required to complete the work; but neither are you free to walk away from it.” The Talmud.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2. Poverty is not caused by over-population. There is plenty of resources to go around. It is a question of the political will to git ‘er done.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3. Poverty does not lead to terrorism directly. Ossama Bin Ladin is fabulously wealthy. The physicians in England’s latest terrorist plot were not poor. Poverty is exploited by terrorists. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;4. There are, I am sorry to report, some bad people involved in the “end hunger now” movement. I refer to people like John-Roger of the Insight movement, and Werner Ernhart (sp?) of EST.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Exactly.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-859199"><em>BigMitch @ 129</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Some observations from someone who is no expert:</p>
<p>1. Obstacles to making poverty issue number one:</p>
<p>1.a. People who believe that this is the role of the church and not government.</p>
<blockquote><p>1.a.i. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are … endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, … . — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, …” H/T to Thom Jefferson. </p>
<p>1.a.ii. Churches have a pecuniary interest in maintaining this facade.</p>
<p>1.a.iii. If you would attack poverty, you must attack the churches who are taking money and not doing the Lord’s work. Be ready for a fight.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>1.b. People don’t trust the government to address this problem efficiently</p>
<blockquote><p>1.b.i. Social security is the most efficient, secure and effective government program in the history of the world and it has reduced poverty hugely. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>1.c. People believe that the problem is so huge and intractable that they are unwilling to address it. (”The poor will always be among us.” — Jesus.)</p>
<blockquote><p>
1.c.i. “You are not required to complete the work; but neither are you free to walk away from it.” The Talmud.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>2. Poverty is not caused by over-population. There is plenty of resources to go around. It is a question of the political will to git ‘er done.</p>
<p>3. Poverty does not lead to terrorism directly. Ossama Bin Ladin is fabulously wealthy. The physicians in England’s latest terrorist plot were not poor. Poverty is exploited by terrorists. </p>
<p>4. There are, I am sorry to report, some bad people involved in the “end hunger now” movement. I refer to people like John-Roger of the Insight movement, and Werner Ernhart (sp?) of EST.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: rwcole</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859229</link>
		<dc:creator>rwcole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Much of what needs to be done to help the poor will be done locally.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much of what needs to be done to help the poor will be done locally.</p>
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		<title>By: yellowsnapdragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859223</link>
		<dc:creator>yellowsnapdragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859223</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-859168&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;TribeScribe @ 117&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;As you show in your example, reproductive education is an integral part of women’s economic options.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s it exactly.  Discussion of population is integral to the primary problem of human rights.  Not the other way around. Overpopulation is caused in part by powerlessness, but it is not the primary problem.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You cite enviromental degredation as a problem associated with overpopulation.  But think about soil erosion, for example.  Farmers will be more mindful of preserving the economic viability of land they actually own and control.  Again, economic rights could mitigate degredation we commonly attribute to overpopulation.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-859168"><em>TribeScribe @ 117</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>As you show in your example, reproductive education is an integral part of women’s economic options.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s it exactly.  Discussion of population is integral to the primary problem of human rights.  Not the other way around. Overpopulation is caused in part by powerlessness, but it is not the primary problem.</p>
<p>You cite enviromental degredation as a problem associated with overpopulation.  But think about soil erosion, for example.  Farmers will be more mindful of preserving the economic viability of land they actually own and control.  Again, economic rights could mitigate degredation we commonly attribute to overpopulation.</p>
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		<title>By: rwcole</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859218</link>
		<dc:creator>rwcole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just came back from a vacation in a town that have a heavy retirement population…Lots of people doin pretty well on not very much- but the town has accomodated them very well- low cost places to buy food- public transportation- a great hospital- and zoning that allows manufactured housing nearly anywhere. The library is great and the community college has lots of programs to give people something to do. Nice place. Two nice golf courses as well.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just came back from a vacation in a town that have a heavy retirement population…Lots of people doin pretty well on not very much- but the town has accomodated them very well- low cost places to buy food- public transportation- a great hospital- and zoning that allows manufactured housing nearly anywhere. The library is great and the community college has lots of programs to give people something to do. Nice place. Two nice golf courses as well.</p>
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		<title>By: rwcole</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859212</link>
		<dc:creator>rwcole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;broad&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes public transportation is CRUCIAL for the POOR and for the ELDERLY- which are in many cases the same people.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>broad</p>
<p>Yes public transportation is CRUCIAL for the POOR and for the ELDERLY- which are in many cases the same people.</p>
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		<title>By: Get Tough</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/30/help-wanted-making-poverty-history-at-ykos-07/#comment-859210</link>
		<dc:creator>Get Tough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great article in NYT about Obama’s voting record in the Illinois Sentate.  Mind-boggling support for Health Care, Poverty, and Crime and Punishment.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article in NYT about Obama’s voting record in the Illinois Sentate.  Mind-boggling support for Health Care, Poverty, and Crime and Punishment.</p>
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