On July 17, 2003, Senator Jay Rockefeller came back from his second briefing on the NSA’s domestic spying program and recorded his concerns about the program in a letter addressed to Vice President Cheney.
The briefing took place just as the Senate was about to vote to defund any data-mining of American citizens. The Senate had tried, earlier that year, to defund the data-mining program, Total Information Awareness, yet Bush had just changed its name and carried on. So in July 2003, the Senate was trying to write legislation explicit enough so the Administration couldn’t pull off such a head-fake again.
Which is why it is so important that Rockefeller stated that the NSA’s domestic spying program reminded him of Total Information Awareness.
I am writing to reiterate my concerns regarding the sensitive intelligence issues we discussed today with the DCI, DIRNSA, Chairman Roberts and our House Intelligence counterparts.
[snip]
As I reflected on the meeting today, and the future we face, John Poindexter’s TIA project sprung to mind, exacerbating my concern regarding the direction the Administration is moving with regard to security, technology, and surveillance.
[snip]
I am retaining a copy of this letter in a sealed envelope in the secure spaces of the Senate Intelligence Committee to ensure that I have a record of this communication. [my emphasis]
Rockefeller wasn’t just raising general concerns about the domestic spying program. He was stating explicitly that the ongoing program sounded a lot like the TIA program that was being made illegal, even as the briefing occurred.
As it happened, Congress did pass the section of the Appropriations Act that defunded any data-mining of US citizens or data-mining within the US.
Sec. 8131.
[snip]
(b) None of the funds provided for Processing, analysis, and collaboration tools for counterterrorism foreign intelligence shall be available for deployment or implementation except for:
(1) lawful military operations of the United States conducted outside the United States; or
(2) lawful foreign intelligence activities conducted wholly overseas, or wholly against non-United States citizens.
But when Bush signed the Appropriations Act, he signed a mumbo-jumbo filled signing statement specifically addressing that section of the Act. Effectively, the signing statement claimed that since the Annex to the Act that referred to other data-mining programs was classified, any reference to such programs wasn’t really part of the duly-signed law. It was just “advisory.”
The Administration did not brief any member of Congress on the program again until March 10, 2004, the day of the confrontation in Ashcroft’s hospital room.
Since that time, of course, we’ve learned that the Bush Administration has been using data-mining. It has been using data-mining to analyze data collected in the United States to identify targets for wiretaps, one party to which could be in the United States. And in fact, NSA didn’t have the technical ability to ensure that it wasn’t tapping communications between two targets, both of whom were in the United States. The Bush Administration was violating the clear intent of the law passed in 2003 to forbid data-mining in the United States.
When Bush confirmed the domestic wiretap program, he described it in terms that would mostly kind of comply with Congress’ intent when it explicitly forbade such activities. But he never denied that the activities associated with the program prior to March 2004 clearly violated Congress’ intent when it passed the Appropriations Act in 2003.
Related posts:
- The “Mystery” of the “Other Intelligence Activities”
- FDL Book Salon: Dear President Obama With Bruce Kluger And David Tabatsky
- Brennan Provides Gonzales-Like Obfuscation on Illegal Surveillance Program
- When and To What Degree Was John Ashcroft Read Into the Illegal Surveillance Program?
- Leon Panetta Begs and Threatens for Consensus Rather than Oversight





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emptywheel!
Marcy! And single digits!
Hey Marcy, see you soon.
happy birthday-eve, egregious
This maladministration has been very good at weasel-wording their way out of situations, particularly those they’ve created themselves. I hope that that’s ending.
Can please impeach somebody now?
Impeach me. I’m ready.
When do we hear outrage by the general public about this detruction of our constitutional rights?
There doesn’t appear to be any “center” to American life anymore, except what we are building on the internet through various organizations, to which I’ve given more money than I like to think about for the last several years.
I feel like I’m supporting the only thing that will save the Republic, may the Goddess bless her!
Good post, Marcy. I’ve been convinced for awhile that parts of TIA have been outsourced (oh, it’s illegal for the gov’t to do that? Well Choicepoint can do it for us!). I bet the relationship has many backdoors. It also has the advantage that the private contractors can supply the same info to, say, DHS and the RNC, avoiding those pesky rules about political purposes. Heck, wasn’t it Choicepoint that supplied caging lists to Calderone?
Eat a peach
The ole’ signing statement trick.
Oh, and a completely off-topic aside:
Why does the MSM give top billing to whatever comes out of Newt G’s mouth?
Who the h-e-double-hockey-sticks is HE! I’m sick of hearing his opinion against my will while reading headlines.
Chief Justice Roberts fell at his summer home, taken to hospital. Breaking news on CNN
raven @ 10
That should be T-Rex’s line and it should be Eat AND Impeach!
EW=Peachie, yum!
itwasntme @ 12
It’s for balance :)
raven @ 10
there’s only one way out…
Sorry for the OT, but for the sports fans out there:
Bill Walsh dies at 75
itwasntme @ 12
Off topic again. Why of why do they have this obsession with boobs? Guess it takes one to know one.
Just in MSN: John Roberts taken to the hospital. Sounds like he fell down and busted his ass. I do hope that he is well, but his court has been busting our asses since he was confirmed.
raven @ 10
Bro, Allman Bros!
ccmask @ 11
Wouldn’t it be interesting, ccmask, if the first legal confrontation over BushCo’s signing statements also pertained to the domestic surveillance program?
It’d make quick work, hopefully, of explaining to the American people why President’s just can’t attach their own laws on the back of the real laws.
itwasntme @ 12
Because they are the liberal media.
Former 49er head coach Bill Walsh dies
long live the West Coast offense
punaise @ 23
Amen.
OT? – Cheney on Larry King tomorrow night. Per CNN – “V.P. Dick Cheney answers the tough questions.” Uh-huh.
JF @ 25
I wonder if Tim Russert’s officially on Cheney’s shit list now? Maybe Dick Cheney no longer controls Russert?
JF @ 25
Will he take phone calls?
Tom in AZ @ 27
“Take” or “tape?”
Thunderbird @ 18
Red and gold with black trim tonight.
I remember when he became coach of the ‘Niners. (I remember the season before he became coach of the ‘Niners, too.)
emptywheel @ 26
*xyz would know…
JF @ 25
Tough questions huh, now that’s laughable.
Iran Contra criminal/pardonee Adm. John Poindexter was put in charge of TIA in ‘02. Congress defunded and outlawed in ‘03. Bush, et al. went ahead and did it anyway, getting clever by half and calling it something diffetent. Rockefeller horrified to be told they were violating Congress. Comey likewise refused to play along, leading hospital room showdown w/ Gonzales 3/10/04.
They did it anyway. Exactly what Congress passed a law saying they couldn’t do. Funded it from other sources. 21st century Iran Contra.
Thunderbird @ 18
I drove the visiting team bus when Stanford played Illinois in Champaign. Coach Walsh, his staff and players were really nice. . .not always the case when teams came to town.
Prairie Sunshine @ 13
He broke his news? What happened? Did he fall off his high horse?
All snark aside, hope the injury was more to his pride than anything else.
It’s a renegade, law-breaking, piss-on-the-Constitution, out-of-control, beyond the fringe White House.
What’s needed now are more hearings, more questions and more statements of terribly annoyed Congressmen and Senators, just before they take a recess.
Wonder what could be unearthed here?
Great post Marcy! Always ahead of the pack…thanks.
emptywheel @ 21
You got it! See you in Chicago.
The John Roberts “falling” at his summer home in Maine story is strange. An ambulance was called, and the report from the hospital was that he was “conscious”. Hmmmmm.
Maybe Clusterfuck should have required medical clearance!
Prairie Sunshine @ 13
Instant Karma is gonna getcha!
retirin’ in five @ 20
T.S. Eliot, The love song of J.Alfred Prufrock.
wdcsmp @ 32
Oh, very nice point. In an earlier weedy version of this I made the Iran-Contra connection explicit (as did joejoejoe who gave me a timeline I used for this). But I didn’t make the Poindexter thing explicit.
I’m just thankful to be living in a land where the top Justice is able to afford a “summer home” in which to take falls.
Wow- What if Roberts needs to be replaced—showdown at the OK Corral I reckon!!
roberts taken to hospital “just as a precaution.”
ccmask @ 37
I think that is the next issue that needs to be before the Supreme Court. It needs to be included in any GitMo cases brought before SCOTUS. Signing statements came into vogue thanks to Alito. They are a CLEAR violation of the separation of powers because with them, the Executive is making laws. Even with the Court stacked on one side, I think Kennedy would flip.
They need to datamine in order to cage Democrats in the 2008 elections.
They resorted to racial caging, which is illegal, in 2004 in Ohio and Florida. But if they can datamine Patriot Act databases for political affiliation, then cage tens of millions of Democrats like they did blacks in ‘04, then they win. Caging based on political affiliation is NOT illegal, so it would be unchallengeable.
Harriett Miers was complicit, so they needed her on the Supreme Court to insure it was never challenged.
Once the Executive branch could appoint the people responsible for voter “fraud” all the pieces were in place for a permanent Republican majority. Had the 06 elections gone Republican, NONE of this would ever have seen the light of day.
It’s all making sense now.
Slothrop @ 43
Seems like he is not wanting for good medical care, neither.
rwcole @ 44
leaving us with a Sup-rump Court
doctordawg @ 47
Right on. It’s political profiling. It’s Fascism or Stalinistic communist ploys. It needs to be addressed and stamped out.
I know Inow you want Impeachment SORRY we can’t do it we haven’t figured out how to make it none binding, besides that nice guy in the white house is letting us say what we want with his approval, so relax already as soon as we figure out how NOT to upset them and make it NON BINMDING we will proceed.
THe Wimpy Democratic Party
BigMitch @ 48
It’d be a damn shame if his health insurance doesn’t cover “summer home” falls. Hope he read the fine print.
“sup rump”
It’s what’s for dinner
This just shows that if you do not have active Congressional oversight of the Executive (with legal authority , i.e. power of the purse etc), the Executive can do whatever the heck it wants.
America needs to wake up because the United States is on the verge of being the next Enron. Off-balance sheet wars (in Kurdish Turkey & Iran), blatent disregard for the law (signing statements — so can Bush issue signing statements on bills written in the 1960s that he doesn’t like?), and changing the name of something so it is exempt from previous defunding.
America is in trouble. This is the political equivilant of global warming.
OT to Big Mitch — “Do I dare to eat a peach?”
Had to google it although knew it was T.S. Eliot. Almann Bros reference was to an album and, I believe, a then current sexual reference popular with Georgia’s young men. (Saw that — or dreamed I did — in a bio on TV.)
Slothrop @ 52
He’d pull a combo-Trent Lott/Robert Bork backflip and sue them to cover it, no doubt.
dead last @ 54
The Enron example is exactly how the MBA Bushies have run things. The main problem with that strategy is that companies like Enron can file bankruptcy, continue as a going concern, and then emerge from Chapter 11 leaner, meaner, and just as rich….in fact, as I type this, that is what the Bushies think the government is afterall. The Bushies suck.
I agree with you Gordon14.
Just as Dick Cheney set up his own intelligence “chop shop” separate from the NSA, DIA and CIA, this domestic spying program probably was farmed out to crony-Republican data-mining companies, who then worked with crony-Republican telecommunications and banking entities to collect as much raw data as possible on U.S. citizens.
But there’s more.
Recently, we learned that a crony-Republican data-mining company, in working with the IRS to go after tax dodgers, had compiled a data-base with U.S. citizens identified according to their political affiliation. Some suspect that this was done to help the IRS target Democrats for audits and asset seizures, while letting Republicans off.
This makes me think that the Bush administration’s post-TIA, but still just as illegal, domestic data-mining program is setup similarly, targeting Democrat’s communications and bank records, while turning a blind eye to “culture of corruption” Republican communications and bank records.
We definitely need more patriotic, progressive, liberal Democrats in Congress, as well as a Democrat in the White House, to get to the bottom of what the Bush administration has been secretly doing.
Down with Fascist Republicanism!!
I’ve been with two corporations during bankruptcy. It’s not too bad. Worked out fine in both cases–except that the shareholders lost their asses of course.
I’ve noticed a pattern here at the Lake. Every time something really bad happens to someone on the other team, like Tony Snow’s cancer or Roberts falling, the immediate reaction of everyone here is to say, we wish him well. We may not like so-and-so’s politics, but we don’t wish them any personal harm.
And what are the odds that right now someone like Anne Coulter is writing a column not only accusing us of wishing Roberts harm, but possibly even staging the accident.
The Oracle @ 58
That needs to be the mantra the Democrats/Progressives use as the oversight hearings continue. This is the sort of cut and dry language that appeals to all Americans” Big Brother is watching you, and if you are not one of us, we will get you.
Slothrop @ 52
History has taught us that the transportation of fallen judges to hospitals has not resulted in an overall increase in the percentage of hospitals containing an equal number of judges and non-judges. Therefore, such transportation must be outlawed.
rwcole @ 53
The other white meat?
rwcole @ 59
Shareholders in bankruptcy is a nice analogy to citizens of the United States.
Maybe Roberts had a sudden unblockage of an artery and will be sane from now on—that would be a bitter pill for goopers to swallow.
John Roberts Update:
Don’t know how he fell, or why.
EMT – “Conscious and alert”…
They don’t know seriousness.
Heart attack?
Yikes!! I hope he’s okay.
Get Tough @ 61
Think about that AUSA letter Whitehouse read @ the AbuG hearing…
rwcole @ 65
Or, hit his head and become a progessive like Alan Alda’s son in that Woody Allen film–was it Play it again, Sam? I don’t remember.
Yes – good points. And exactly how IS all this being funded? Funded from other sources also?
wdcsmp @ 32
Sounds like they are going to impeach Gonzo – per MSNBC
newtonusr @ 67
Whitehouse is a keeper. I love that guy.
LS @ 66
My first thought was TIA or minor stroke. They’d probably do an MRI or a CAT scan for that, because treatment has to begin very soon to be effective.
Breaking on CNN:
Hillary Clinton still has breasts!
Marcy, your post and all of your investigating on this is really great.
Gonzo impeachment would be kind of fun. Why the hell not. Neither congress nor the White House is going to do anything else for a year and a half ANYWAY—I say “IMPEACH is ASS”
General Rump
T I L L M A N got some good play on Ed Schultz this morning, from a call-in listener.
LS @ 70
Gone-zo, Gone-zo, Gone-zo!
This man is an affront to the very idea of justice.
-GSD
itwasntme @ 73
I thought it was cleavage
Get Tough @ 71
They just never see him coming.
LS @ 74
Agreed.
What I heard about this on the radio at one point was that Sen. Rock had to hand-write this because of the super-double-secrecy oath they signed in order to be briefed at all.
BigMitch @ 76
Also some coverage on Democracy Now this morning.
Also, did the Brits trade in their poodle for a Shelty or what?
-GSD
Gonzo looks more like an undertaker than an Attorney General.
Is it possible that the president made an error in an appointment?
CNN-Cleavage News Network.
Reporting on Hills hills.
-GSD
Anything to this comment (by “flounder” at the thread accompanying a post by Karen Tumulty)?
“Phone calls are digitized these days, thus they are “data”. Listening to people’s phone calls would be “data mining”. Not that hard to parse.”
newtonusr @ 79
You are sooo right. He is so unassuming, but man does he pack a wallop. He is some revelation.
Thank you for your courage and clear voice, Marcy.
I am placing this comment in the secure vault of FDL, even before reading comments under your post.
I’ll be back later to read in more depth.
Oh, and have I mentioned it yet today?
IMPEACH! ASAP! NOW! IMPEACH!
Caution has been thrown to the wind long ago, and NOT by us, but by this horrid administration.
They.must.be.removed.from.office.
I’ll get my broom and manure shovel…
rwcole @ 83
maybe he will take this administration under. I can only hope.
Let’s compare the swelling in Hill’s bodice with the lump in Clusterfuck’s flight suit. Which is the most attractive politically?
I’ve been critical of the dems with their investigations in the past, but the time is better than ever to go after Gonzo, and they are doing it. The Bushies still have 18 months to go. Batten down the hatches!
Get Tough @ 86
Raise your glasses to Link Chaffee!
BigMitch @ 41
Uh, I was think ABB
brendan @ 85
No, they don’t “listen to the phone calls.” They have sophisticated computers which track voice wave forms of phone calls. The computers look for certain wave forms which certain words and phrases show in certain types of context.
Doesn’t Pat Roberts owe us the other part of the 9.11 investigation or something? I forgot… remind me.
1993 — Roberts, C.J., suffered an unexplained seizure when he was appointed to the court of appeals.
Adie @ 87
p.s., thanks for keeping the fires burning bright at the Lake, guys. I just plain have to quit this stuff for awhile, to nurse what’s left of my sanity. back in a bit….
Would appreciate you saving a spot for me. ;->
Slothrop @ 43
Chief Justice Roberts earns a salary of approximately $210,000 per year, which is approximately equal to the compensation of a fourth-year associate at a national law firm.
If he owns a summer home, its highly likely that he bought it while he was a partner at Hogan & Hartson.
GordonM @ 9
It seems to me that the Founding Fathers, although they could not possibly have forseen the sort of things that this administration is doing, or the degree to which technology would make these things possible, were very wise to make the wording for impeachable offenses so broad as to include possible non-crimes. Whether some of this stuff is technically illegal may be debatable in a court of law, but it’s morally reprehensible, out and out sneaky and dishonest, an abuse of power and shows a contempt for congress not seen in decades! And the Congress gets to decide whether they are high crimes and/or misdemeanor enough to impeach. And I submit, if they don’t see them as warranting impeachment, then they are as guilty as if they were active participants. That’s what we need to tell them. That if they don’t want to be considered accomplices in the wrongdoing, then they have to quit letting the evildoers off the hook and extract a punishment.
Roberts
Yeah there was a report on whether the intelligence community fucked up the war WOMD intelligence- but nothing on whether the administration cherry picked and distorted the intelligence on the run up to war. Odd that the dems haven’t forced the report out yet.
Slothrop @ 93
I don’t understand your response: you seem to agree that they could be “listening” while misleadingly referring to the activity as some form of “data mining”.
Any handwriting analysts want to appraise Rockefeller’s script? He looks like a pushover to me.
SanderO @ 94
The part that was postponed, and then postponed again, and then declared to be no longer relevant was about intelligence failures leading up to 9-11 IIRC.
Chief Justice Roberts is taken to hospital after a fall at his home in Maine.
-GSD
I, for one, would love to see Chief Justice Roberts spending more time with his family and less time fuckin up my country.. Hope that’s not a harsh thing to think.
oddmommy @ 62
oddmommy @ 62
Your reasoning like your sense of humor is faultless.
rwcole @ 104
He was the one with the cute kids, yes? OK, they need more daddy time.
GSD @ 103
Wishing, of course, only the best for the Chief Justice. Was the unfortunate incident caused by a Segway? A pretzel?
The stress of fuckin up the country is obviously just too much for Roberts—RESIGN–RESIGN- take yer Alito with ya!!
Chief Justice Roberts just diagnosed with a massive brain fart. “Yep- he’s a gooper” said the attending physician.
burnspbesq @ 97
The AP story says:
“PEE–EWWWW” said the medical staff!
burnspbesq @ 97
I often hear the argument that government officials sacrifice financially by serving in government. I think this is generally untrue. What more often happens is that they cycle back and forth between private business where they make really big salaries and government where they develop the resumes to demand even bigger salaries the next time they cycle to the private side. This is especially noticeable in the defense industry-Pentagon relationship where ex-government someday government officials again use their contacts to current government officials to swing contracts their way while the current government officials establish the contacts they develop to land high paying jobs in those same companies when it is their turn to cycle into private business.
In Roberts case, it is, of course, not just about the money but the power and prestige. Still the same circle between government and private law firms benefitted him as well.
Aside from the snark, having had an heart attack I do wish him well, no matter how violently I disagree with his positions or behavior on the court.
I dunno
If ya weigh the negative effects on the country of forty years on the court with the negative effects of minor incapacitation to the Roberts family—which do you root for? It’s a tough one.
doctordawg @ 47
Permanent Republic majority = Thousand Year Reich
Goopers know that the future looks grim to em..
Ya got a rapidly expanding hispanic minority that hates em
You’ve got a rapidly growing retirement community that hates em
You’ve got the biggest failure in the history of the presidency
You’ve got six years of do nothin rubber stampin bone chillin ugly govt from the gooper congress
There’s a lot ta hate.
rwcole @ 114
I don’t believe Roberts has been on the court for forty years, but you can root for change or misfortune which is more humane is up to you.
argo
No Worse- He will likely BE on the court for forty years.
Damn. SCJ Roberts just got SERVED his “pretzel”.
Twilight Zone music swells:
Roberts took over for Harriet Miers’ who was complicit in the 2004 voter caging attorney firing scandal.
Bush thugs visit him at home and beat the living crap out of him, sending him to the hospital, just to remind him of his loyalties. Even the news article reminds us he has two small children to consider.
Roberts discovers that he can be beaten, and the news will report he “fell.”
Bush challenges Miers’ contempt charge to the SC, and Roberts rules in favor of the thugs who just beat him soundly.
That could only happen in the Twilight Zone, though, right? Right?
MSNBC confirmed there was a report that Roberts had a seizure while playing golf in January, 1993.
A seizure here and there is perfectly normal for a pretzel brained gooper- no reason for alarm.
albert fall @115:
The comparison is hyperbole, though they did last the same period of time: twelve years.
argosfalcon @ 113
Me too.
LS @ 120
Did he have to take a stroke?
more news (via HuPo)
From NBC’s Mike Viqueira
A group of House Democrats will introduce a resolution calling on the Judiciary Committee to begin impeachment proceedings against Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
Rep. Jay Inslee (D-WA) will sponsor the measure. It will be dropped in the hopper tomorrow.
It’s too early to say whether it will actually get anywhere.
Here’s the text of resolution…
sorry for OT (drive by, at that – vet day)
glad for news. a start.
Roberts may have a long carreer on the court but nobody knows how he will view the world in 10 years. A lifetime appointment does tend to make one more philosophical. Maybe a brush with death will have the same effect. We can wish him well, and hope that he learns on the job.
But I am still pissed at him. The bastard lied at his confirmation hearing. He overturned Roe v. Wade and Brown v. Topeka. What more does it take to make you wish the guy had never been born?
http://thinkprogress.org/
“Did he have to take a stroke?”
No– he got a free “drop”.
brendan @ 124
He stopped driving for a while
rwcole @ 121
Roberts is just another vote for Scalia. If Roberts is not ok, just let Scalia officially vote twice.
brendan @ 122
Indeed. The comparison is intended on all fronts.
I like the impeach Gonzo deal– will make it a little harder for the White House to hold back “evidence” when it’s a matter of high crimes and misdemeanors.. raise the ante!
brendan @ 124
His previous seizure is described as ideosynchratic. I think they may have meant to say ideopathic.
the swain, entrained, falls plainly up in Maine.
Medical research indicates that from time to time a brain will make efforts to “unkink” itself leading to seizures.
oops – gonzopeachment already mentioned above @ 70. my bad.
i miss “edit this comment”. sigh.
back to errands
brendan @ 124
his playing partner spotted him two strokes.
kirk murphy @ 125
Let’s not get a Hedda ourselves here…
marcy-
there’s something i don’t understand……..
if the letter was so super-secret that he had to write it by hand, and keep a copy in the super-secret vault, how come it has been released publicly? how can rockefeller do that?
Somewhat OT
Two cowboys,those icons of the American west, are moseying into town, when George suddenly whips out his six-shooter and pumps several thousand rounds into something. After the smoke clears a bit, Cisco asks, ‘Hey, Senor George, what was you shootin’ at?’
George laconically replies, ‘It was the
Constitutiion, the most dangerous danged critter on the range.’
‘Senor George,’ Cisco says, ‘I think that thing, it got away.’
‘Nope,’ says George, ‘I plugged it good and proper. It’s goona bleeddta death, slow and agonized like. Heh! Heh!’
Let that be alesson for all of us;
See, Whiite folks can git along real swell with those of Hispanic derivation.
Especially if they are loyal . . .
Is parsing a sin?
Roberts was playin with Gonzo at the time- and won in exchange for an immunity deal.
BigMitch @ 126
He certaintly did. Yeah, he overturned them sub siliention, but he still overturned those decisions that he specifically said he would not do. Further, and not as signficant because it is not a flash button matter, but he joined on a case, authored by Souter, that basically allows corporations easier 12(b)(6) motions on antitrust cases, and maybe all cases, by overturning 60 years of jurisprudence on “notice pleading.” It is almost essentially, “notice plus facts”, which you only get thru discovery—which one does not get to if a 12(b)(6) is entered! 6 months of overturning precedent for this Court. I don’t care what political party you are affiliated with, but that is outrageous.
rwcole @ 89
Wolfie the Beard: perv o’the day. So far.
LS @ 70
Actually, the legislation aren’t articles of impeachment. It tells the Judiciary to get cracking on impeachment articles.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 145
That’s how it begins.
One wonders if the effort to impeach Abu Gonzales starts to look like it will succeed–how will Bush deal? He calls him “Fredo.” I wouldn’t recommend Abu go out in any boats…or try to make any deals.
BigMitch @ 133
What does ideosynchratic means? Or Ideopathic too? Is this anything like the stories about Neil Young(Yes, of Crazy Horse and “Rockin’ In The Free World” fame)? How back in the days of CSNY, he would have seizures and the other band members claimed it was because he was sick of working with them. In effect, they implied he was making them up.
Sagacity @ 147
Speaking of “Fredo”, The Godfather movies were on AMC all weekend.
Add it to the list. Oh and by the way all you Christians, if there WAS a God, he/she would have struck GWB, Shooter, and Gonzo down with bolts of lightening by now.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 148
The article reads “idiosyncratic”.
ACTION ITEM:
Please call Inslee’s office right now to thank him for introducing legislation calling for Gonzales’ impeachment.
(202) 225-6311
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 148
If Roberts wants off the court, I’m all for it.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 149
*xyz @ 152
Done. Spoke to young man named Gillen (?).
Badwater @ 153
“I’ve seen the legal and the damage done
A little bit of it in everyone…”
retirin’ in five @ 155
Thank you!
BigMitch @ 133
He is an idiot alright.
ideosynchratic (sp?) means one of a kind
ideopathic means unknown origin.
wdcsmp @ 32
There;s more than that. There is more than one data mining operation. There is also the program inside the FBI.
Additionally, they are doing these stupid “Beautiful Mind” kind spiderweb things. Remeber the movie? When he would have all these clippings pushpinned on a bulletin board with sting running from one to another to show some supposed connection?
They do that. The computer program that searches the signals intelligence (your phone calls and e-mail and other internet usage) uses a filter not unlike the kind that stick some comments into moderation here at the lake.
So, let’s say one motnh enough of your phone calls/emails get put into “mederation” by the computer to go over a pre-set statistical probabilty value.
Whoomph! You are now intersting to the program, so they start data mining your phone records, your finaicial information, etc. (credit card bills and ATMS are THE BEST for tracking movement)
They also do the spider web thingy. They start data mining the people you have had contact with or who have had contact with phone numbers and locations associated with you.
In the biz, it’s called an “associated name search”. There are actuall commercially avaible data bases for doing these, private eyes and lawyers use them al the time. You just have to subscribe to them.
So, you have the Poindexter illegal data mining at DOD –PLUS you have the FBI illegal dat mining.
Now, DOJ rules used to prohibit FBI from using these services except with a warrant–for which they need the help of an AUSA (or in some specific cases, and administrative subpeona from FBI), or a GJ subpeona –for which you need both an AUSA and a GJ.
Part of the freak out over the Patriot Act National Security letter violations (and why Mueller is still soiling his undies) is that FBI agents were using NSLs for non-national security cases. It’s like all the old rules went out the window.
part of this is b/c FBI got the bright idea to subscribe to these services instead of having the services turn over the info in response to the subpeona like in the old days.
Knowing that credit reports, and biank info etc. was just sitting there on their new shiny computer sytem waiting for them to peek, was like Eve with the apple from the Tree of Knowledge–irresistable.
So, agents started peeking and if they found something good trying to create a paper trail to justify it so they would not have to deal with the fruit of the poisonous tree problem.
So, FBI has it’s own illegal data mining issue too.
Which is why Gonzo is now throwing up all this sand in COngress eyes (I cannot believe I am recycling Pat’s hokey metaphor–oh, the shame of it) about there being multiple programs.
There are. You got the DOD/NSA prgrams, plus the FBI program. And I think there may be one more over at Homeland Security. And I still want to know what Chertoff is doing with all those “detention facilites” he built.
I was cruising through a list of DOJ contracting memeos before (yes, my life is THAT boring) and I saw two that dealt with DOJ recently aquiring the abilty to contract for extra prison and detetnion facilites.
Why do we suddenly need all these privately run prisons? Crime statistics are going down as the baby boomers age out.
itwasntme @ 8
Because this whole thing is relatively “arcane” to the general pubic (sic). It needs to be simplified to simply: the government has been violating your Constitutional rights, specifically the 4th and 5th Amendments, by spying on the emails you are sending to friends, family, and anyone else. YOUR government is spying on YOU as if YOU are the enemy in direct violation of the Constitution and explicit laws.
I REALLY think we need to start calling these programs what they are’
they are programs that are designed to steal
they steal our information, they steal our corporate secrets, trade secrets that we’ve aquired through the investment of our time, they steal our contacts, our sources
these programs give the listeners heads up on where we buy our product, what we will pay, what we can bid
the programs steal our methods for manufacture
that’s just the tip
the programs also serve as blackmail against political oponents
for instance, someone like me might ask;
HOW THE HELL CAN NANCY PELOSI STILL KEEP IMPEACHMENT OFF THE TABLE?
and the answer MIGHT be, the president has stolen information about her that she cannot allow made public
now, that’s entirely speculation but the point is made
THAT is why there needs to be a warrant
all the president has to do is show that he is not stealing and a warrant is granted
yet he refuses to demonstrate he is not stealing
now, THAT is the metric we need to use in conversation
FYI,
new thread
doctordawg @ 47
Nobody needs Patriot Act data mining to get your political affliation. Just voter files.
Which I believe is public information in every county in this nation.
Just amke a Freedom of Information request to you local Board of Elections for the voter files in our county. Heck in my county, if you pay a $50 copying fee, they give it to you on a searchable CD so can use the data more easily.
punaise @ 23
Read the link @ 18 to see the phenomenal job Walsh did in bringing coaches of color into the NFL. He was a wonderful man.
itwasntme @ 8
My sense is that there is considerable outrage, but no outlet for people to show it, save places like FDL. The MSM surely isn’t reporting it.
David @ 150
Maybe ‘we’ _are_ the bolts of lightning …
As has been much discussed the purpose of Administration’s data-mining “leak” to the NYT is to give credence to Gonzales testimony that it was a different “program” than the TSP to escape the perjury rap. Of course everyone suspects this is bull. So, let’s continue to pursue if there were really two programs or just one!
In reviewing some of the answers by Comey to Shumer’s questions concerning his May testimony I think there is a clue and a good line of questioning to pursue.
Here’s the testimony:
So, there was a classified “name of the program.”
Did that program of that classified name include both the data mining and eavsdropping activities?
I bet it did.
Sounds likeperris @ 162
Sounds like a plot from “The Godfather”
retirin’ in five @ 155
also done
Action item done, thanks for the number.
Hugh @ 112
As one who has been there and done that, and left a Government job that I loved for purely economic reasons, all I will say is “YOU try raising a family in a high cost of living area on a GS-14 salary before you tell me there is no sacrifice involved.”
rwcole @ 65
Hilarious!
retirin’ in five @ 107
Or, maybe a runaway golf cart, being run by an irate man who just heard Roberts kinda thought Executive Privilege isn’t very expansive?
BTW, I suspect Pelosi’s reference to impeachment being “off the table” referred to impeachment of the president. I don’t recall any discussion pre-2006 mid-terms of impeaching any other official, so it’s highly unlikely she was referring to any and all impeachments. After all, when was the last time impeachment of anybody in the administration besides a president was ever discussed? It’s gotta be extremely rare.
Just got off the phone with Inslee’s office. I live in Washington state, although not in his district. The woman who answered the phone{at 9:47 pm EDT!} was very pleasant and seemed genuinely glad to hear from me. I would encourage everyone to call. I also added that Cheney and Shrub should be next, in that order. Man those phones!!!
BigMitch @ 159
assume he gets to take a mulligan…
In the 1970s, Richard Nixon’s reelection committee (acronym: CREEP) had a million dollar “slush fund,” from which money was drawn to pay for all of Nixon’s illegal, reelection campaign shenanigans. The Watergate break-in was paid for from this “slush fund.” Woodward and Bernstein “followed the money” and uncovered the Nixon administration’s criminal activities, leading to Nixon’s resignation in disgrace.
The current crop of “culture of corruption” Republicans in the White House have their own present-day “slush fund(s).”
The U.S. intelligence “black budget” slush fund is just one of these. Billions of dollars are allocated each year for “black budget” intelligence operations, with only a handful of our representatives in Congress knowing just a little bit about what our taxpayer money is being spent on.
The perfect Republican “slush fund.” Restricted access and limited legal oversight by our representatives, our FISA court, our Department of Justice. Little if no accountability is possible when everything is hidden behind a wall of secrecy.
This “slush fund” is that from which taxpayer money is coming that the Bush/Cheney administration is doling out to private crony-Republican data-mining firms, which are collecting massive amounts of data on U.S. taxpayers.
Out of this “black budget” slush fund controlled by the neo-con Republicans in the White House also came the money to pay for the extraordinary rendition of detainees to “black budget” CIA prisons overseas.
And who knows what else in the way of criminal and unethical activities this “black budget” slush fund has paid for over the past seven years.
No doubt Dick Cheney’s intelligence “chop shop,” which was created to “fix the intelligence” around the Bush/Cheney/PNAC policy of regime change in Iraq, was funded by this “black budget” slush fund, with Dick Cheney spreading untold millions (if not billions) of dollars around to crony-Republican pals…and with no one in our Congress having a clue what Cheney’s been doing…because it’s all a secret…and essential to national security…as well as establishing a permanent Republican majority. At least this is what the “culture of corruption” Republicans in the White House would claim, if and when all this comes out.
perris @ 162
I have to agree, it is stealing from us, our family, friends, neighbors, employers, and Politicians that represent us, etc… and the public understands what stealing is. When things are simplified people can understand them. Write and speak so a 5th grader can understand without being long winded & losing their interest.
Politics has it’s own language and most people don’t want to run to a dictionary to be able to understand what some one like Biden or Kerry are saying. I know people who don’t know what a liberal is, but they know what conservative means.
Stealing & lieing, call it what it is.
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Funny how the neo-cons, theocons, and oilcons stir it up in the middle east and then sale arms to all sides. Those silly Defense contractors.
Excellent comment. Agreed, what’s they’re up to amongst Pentagon/NSA/CIA/FBI/et al. is extremely broad in scope. They just can’t help themselves, as in the old saying, “It’s OK to be a pig, but ya can’t be a hog. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.” These guys are hogs. They’re so over the top that the utterly unthinkable a few years ago is now fine.
If we EVER start to find out how much we are being watched, it is going to make Winston Smith of George Orwell/1984 look like a rugged individualist. Well . . maybe a bit of a literary stretch, but you get my point.
looseheadprop @ 160