Politics is so often a game of theory and postioning – played on a field removed from the lives of real people. And, like the YouTube debate, it’s often startling – and then energizing – when we do hear real voices.
Last week, we heard the genuine voice of Maryam from Iraq – and I would like to thank her again for her willingness to speak with us.
Today Iraqi voices are raised in joy at the victory of the Iraqi team in the Asian Cup – what a good moment in the midst of all they live each day.
Iraq’s 1-0 victory over Saudi Arabia on a 71st-minute header by captain Younis Mahmoud was an inspirational triumph for a team whose players straddle bitter and violent ethnic divides. After the game, Mahmoud called for the United States to withdraw its troops from his nation.
“I want America to go out,” he said. “Today, tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow, but out. I wish the American people didn’t invade Iraq and, hopefully, it will be over soon.”
This week many voices will be shared at YearlyKos and one event will give us an unusual chance to hear another set of voices speak of their experiences in Iraq.
Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber, from the Center for Media and Democracy and authors of The Best War Ever are hosting a “Coffee with the Troops” on Sunday (8/5/07) at 9:30 AM. They will be “joined by Garett Reppenhagen, Aaron Hughes and other soldiers who are the backbone of Iraq Veterans Against the War” to discuss “how online activists can better support our troops in their own resistance to the war in Iraq.”
John has raised some provocative questions in advance of Sunday’s discussion:
What’s up with the Netroots and the war? Is stopping the war still an over-arching issue that unites liberal bloggers? Or will the online partisans be taking their lead now from presidential candidates and Party strategists? What can bloggers do to hasten the end of the war and support our troops’ own resistance?
The soldiers from IVAW have been speaking with great courage about the horror of this war – and they are raising their voices for clear action by Congress:
With the House of Representatives about to begin debates on the issue, and the Senate soon voting on the amendments to the military budget, Iraq Veterans Against the War hopes that our elected representatives will have the courage, common sense, and decency to vote against continuing this conflict.
Iraq Veterans Against the War stands firm in the belief that funding the war is killing the troops – and delaying further any prospects for real diplomacy, reconciliation and peace.
I’m looking forward to that discussion – and to hearing more voices speaking out with such clarity about Iraq.
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Siun, thank you again and again for your posts. And thank you in advance, dear guests.
Psyched.
zunoed?
Of course not; I stopped to read.
Thanks Laura … no planned guests tonight unless John Stauber has a chance to drop by ..
Right On, Siun!!! Kudos to the Iraqi National Football Team!!! 8-)
I always have to read first, too, dakine01.
Sigh. I misread your sentence of thanking Maryam again as thanking her for BEING here again.
Sarah and I had a few fleeting moments of hopefulness as we saw clips on the tube of all the celebration. Suni, Kurd, Shiite…blink once, none of it mattered. Cheers, joy, dancing in the streets. But we know Iraq will have to blink again tomorrow.
Sigh.
AnnieW @ 7
I usually don’t but thought the post had been here longer than it had Comment first then read seems to be my norm… Ah well, such is life. ;})
Rick … I think the love of Iraq is primary for most Iraqis. And today’s win was awesome!
I’m so bummed that I couldn’t make this Year’s DKOS event! Is there plans laid out for next year’s yet? Is there gonna be some live-blogging during the seminars?
Siun @ 11
You might find this description interesting.
It’s takes much courage as a vet to stand aginst the Iraq War. Puts me in mind of the movie “Born on the Fourth of July”. I support our soldiers in Iraq. Bring them home.
I just got the link to Ali and Dahr Jamail’s report on Iraqi football … haven’t read it yet but bet it’s worth reading:
Football Succeeds where Politicians Fail
And Laura – I’ll take a look at that one as well … thanks!
Excuse me, Suin. Back to read your article in a sec.
EPUed for EPU:
Evil Parallel Universe @ 78
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ment-80602
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-311227
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-456283
Hey. You loo hoo asked.
And I particularly like this:
They don’t have a Plan B, never did, and they are going to keep with Plan A until they are either voted out of office or indicted/impeached and convicted, because they were “right” to start the war, and they are still “right” to finish it, regardless of the costs (in anyway).
Are you going to be at Yearly Kos EPU?
Rick DeVille @ 9
I truly hope there are no car-bombs at the homecoming celebrations, as had occurred during their prior successes to the Asian title!
Siun @ 15
Off topic–I know it’s wrong of me to enjoy this, but I do.
And I’m sure no actual stick figure guys were harmed.
CTuttle @ 12
CTuttle, many of us will be there. I plan to help loveblog er, liveblog, Christy, Jane and Marcy’s panel Thursday morning. I know I’d want to know what’s up!
Loo Hoo. @ 20
THANK YOU.
(Are you planning a post re: Coffee with the Troops, Siun?)
Renee in Ohio @ 19
quake is more fun :P
So does the uppity team Captain Mahmoud get shipped off to the Abu Ghraib gymnastics club (for Spring training?) for his cheek?
I know that Younis Mahmoud is not alone in wanting America the heck out of Irak. The parliament has said so as well, and Al Maliki appears to despise General Petreas. What are these people in the WH thinking?
Quake looks like more work than I want to go to to let out my frustrations online. ;)
Loo Hoo. @ 24
“ummm. Power good. Absolute power better. yum.”
Renee in Ohio @ 25
It didn’t play for me…
Laura … we’ll see … hopefully I wont be asleep by posting time – every YKOS morning begins rather early and I have a bit of a hike via el and bus to get there.
I’m speaking on Friday – will have info on that tomorrow but I’m excited about it!
Siun @ 15
Some years ago, the civil war in some African nation (sorry, forget which) was halted (no negotiations) for 3 days while their team competed in the World Cup. It’s a very slow process, but team sports have done a whole lot in countering racism, and perhaps in instilling in some portion of the population a respect for the rules that wasn’t there before.
ESPN’s reporting on Tillman is excellent. It won’t turn the 25%ers, but there’s a whole lot of guys out there who think about football 50 x more than they think about politics. I think it will get through.
And while I’m at it: GO BOSOX!!
Gordon … I remember that too … now I’m scratching my head since I can’t remember which country it was …
Loo Hoo. @ 24
Does my helpful highlighting help expose your unwarranted assumption?
I wish I had seen the victory and the speech afterwards…let me ask something;
what was the crowd reaction after this was spoken
was that done before the spectators or was that done in a post game interview somehwere else?
either way, what was the reaction
if in the stadium I would think there might be thunderous applause
tell me what happened if someone knows
Siun @ 28
I look forward to hearing more about that!
Assuming that they’re thinking at all, Gordon?
The Iraqi people want us out of there, the American people want us out of there, the Iraqi parliament and prime minister want us out of there. WTF gives?
Loo Hoo, once you push play, there’s a stick figure guy standing there. You have to drag him to the left, toward the stairs. It’s in Flash.
Loo Hoo. @ 34
bush has the wingnuts that will not relinquish his every word
it really is as if the 28 percenters think he’s the mesiah, whatever he says, no matter how rediculous, they go along with it
government up your wifes dress?…fine, the president wants to do it
make up crap to start a war and steal?…fine, the president wants to do it
give all your investments to people so wealthy they will never ever spend it?…fine, the president wants to do it
destroy our armed forces?…fine, the president wants to do it
bring us to the brink of globular war?…fine, the president wants to do it
piss on our constitution?…fine, the president wants to do it
they are hypnotized by something that’s for sure
Perris – the comments were made at the post game press conference – see the link for Asian Games for the full report. Here’s a big more:
Does anyone know exactly what happened between Al Maliki and Petreas?
Did they have a specific disagreement or was this just an overall disgust? Seems Petreas must have done something because I don’t recall Al Maliki speaking out against any other individual.
Someone posted this link earlier today.. Funny how we hear of this via AU press.
Al Maliki is trying rather desperately to hold onto power which he has already lost … my take is the anti-Petreaus talk is his attempt to look tough … and that it won’t work out so good for him.
Eureka Springs @ 39
Oh, right – telling him to calm down ought to do the trick.
Someone would be me. And it certainly took a lot longer for the news to come up in the U.S.
Thanks FDL for keeping this hideous occupation in perspective. I for one am with Mamouhd. Leave just effin leave.
Loo Hoo. @ 34
Ayup.
Absolute faith in one’s own infallibility, no give at all. Steady as a rock, only dumber.
From the other side – to admit a mistake would be fatal, because the only way he can live with himself is to believe anything that went wrong was someone else’s fault. He just keeps doubling down, and will continue until someone cuts off his credit line.
So Nouri al-Maliki wants to impeach the general? Wow.
Laura Doty @ 21
I’ll second that emotion!!! Sorry, I had to pick up my teeny-boppers from the $1 showing of ‘Shr*k III’!!! ;-)
From the Department of short answers…
Kos…Yes Sir! Reporting for Duty!
FDL…???
Twain @ 38
Where did the article go? I checked NYT and WaPo… Basically it said that Al Maliki would ask for Petreas to be replaced and that (sounded to me like) Petreas had yelled and thrown fits, which insulted Al Maliki. But again, where are the stories?
ccmask @ 45
Don’t we all…just another “general.” *g*
ccmask @ 45
Are newly minted War Czar could step up!!!
Loo Hoo. @ 48
This, from the Sydney Morning Herald.
ccmask @ 45
And Bush says “calm down” and I’ll bet he said it with a straight face, no embarrassment.
LooHoo – the article is right up above in the comments. And folks should read the posturing in it with several tons of salt.
Sporkovat – they are interesting questions.
Siun @ 40
What would work for him is to allow the Iraqi Parliament to ‘ask’ for our prompt departure!!! 8-)
The issues Stauber is pointing to relate to how far the netroots should support the presidentials who are not for ending the occupation immediately in order to protect democratic candidates v. how far we support immediate withdrawal and insist the candidates join us.
I think that’s something we should all be thinking about.
Ooh, Obama’s nuclear response is currently on the retread of the Debate!!!
CTuttle – nothing will work for him. He’s a puppet and when the Green Zone falls or leaves, so will he if not before though apparently Bush is back to supporting keeping him in office at least for a bit longer. Iraqis are not so keen on that idea.
Siun @ 55
Yes, thanks for bringing us to the point. I have no patience–and I refuse to support–anyone who fails to support immediate withdrawal from occupied territories. This idea that the U.S. will/should have bases in Irak is untenable.
Siun @ 57
I’m surprised the Kurds and Talabani,and the Shi’a Sadr and/or Dawar blocs, haven’t done it already!
Siun @ 57
Anyone remember Ngo Dinh Diem?
Laura Doty @ 58
It’s certainly militarily and practically untenable, and I think most of the ones with a neuron or two still firing (eliminating all but one of the Repubs there) probably realize that. The ridiculous pundit/media bubble keeps insisting that it’s politically untenable to admit it, though.
I coming to believe that taking down the media bubble is at least as important as anything else.
Laura Doty @ 60
Wasn’t he installed by the CIA?
GordonM @ 61
I quite agree with you. Ideas about HOW?
DLC Democrats (Hillary and Barack) are not fighting to end the occupation… They must want to inherit it and keep bases loaded until we drain the oil fields. Edwards needs to convince me a bit more.
Kucinich may be quirky but he wants the same things I do for our country and he seems like a scrapper who will not capitulate easily.
Be nice if the compassionate conservatives in the media started printing some pictures of the good things that we liberals never talk about that are going on in Iraq.
Laura Doty @ 60
And Henry Cabot Lodge?
Laura Doty @ 63
Let’s ask OKK to ask Lahoma :-).
GordonM @ 66
Very interesting parallel. The good cops.
our puppets do seem to have a less than stellar success rate, eh Laura?
This from David Ignacious today (Wapo) thru Josh at TPM- By the way, Josh says David has it backwards…
A good start would be for Washington partisans to take deep breaths and lower the volume, so that the process of talking and fighting that must accompany a gradual U.S. withdrawal can work. Some members of Congress argue that pressure for an American troop withdrawal will persuade the Iraqis to put aside their sectarian agendas, but the opposite is more likely to be true.
SNIP
Siun @ 69
Less than stellar SURVIVAL rate, too.
Unfortunately, puppets tend to dance on air.
Anyone remember Ngo Dinh Diem?
No, please enlighten me!
Siun @ 69
‘Democracy’ provided by the end of bayonets have never blossomed!!!
Laura Doty @ 68
Well, partly. Diem was a puppet, but very rapidly got carried away with (and abusive of) his power. I don’t think Maliki has much real power.
But that’s been a flaw of US foreign policy since the Dulles brothers (or even before): install a puppet with enough power to do your bidding and they stop doing your bidding. Install a weak puppet and they’re entirely useless. Hmmm, I just wish I could find a moral to this story…
Republicans fear another beating:
http://thehill.com/leading-the…..07-27.html
Do they fear it enough to impeach?
GordonM @ 74
Those that don’t study history are doomed to repeat it!
But that’s been a flaw of US foreign policy since the Dulles brothers (or even before): install a puppet with enough power to do your bidding and they stop doing your bidding. Install a weak puppet and they’re entirely useless. Hmmm, I just wish I could find a moral to this story…
How about not installing?
I read a post somewhere that the report about Maliki v. Petraeus was false. Off to look for links.
CTuttle @ 76
Nah, the only difference is whether you’re surprised at the outcome :-).
Gordon – perfect line! thanks!
What I’d like to know is what else I can DO.
My mind these days wends to Political Theater…I’m afraid I’m feeling more and more like Ruth Gordon’s Maude….
Loo Hoo. @ 75
Apparently they do not fear losing again in 2008 as much as they fear Bush & Cheney wrath and/or leaking their dirty secrets.
GordonM @ 79
Doh!!! *Smack* 8-)
At least we can all be assured that justice is being served in Irak:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..ry.html?hp
newspaperbrat @ 82
Just think what kind of dirty laundry Cheney could hang out from his unfettered access to the Data Mines! I’m positive he could find a few nuggets on each and everyone of them!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 76
Those that don’t study history are doomed to repeat it!
Georges Santayana said “Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
I believe it was Mr. Johnson from my 10th grade History class who made that other quote.
Loo Hoo. @ 84
At least we can all be assured that justice is being served in Irak:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/7/…..ry.html?hp
You are referring to this paragraph, perhaps?
“Listen up – this is how we do it at Guantanamo!!”
myiq2xu @ 86
Write my congresscritter! :P
For over 6000 years the same of political formulas have been used, with the duration of there effectiveness become shorter and shorter with each application yet more destructive with each use.
This is the link, but this is the first time doing this so I don’t know how it will go.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/bl…..ion-awa-1/
argosfalcon @ 89
Because technology has increased our lethality exponentially, as we’ve ‘progressed’!!!
Anyone else noticed how the duration of empires seems to be getting shorter and shorter as the world gets smaller and smaller?
CTuttle @ 91
So true.
technicolor @ 90
Nice Job! Kewl Site! Mahalo!!!
dakine01 @ 92
If only the periods of relative peace would expand.
Doesn’t the duration of empires need to get shorter as the ability to communicate gets easier and quicker. I was just reading a book about the 1453 siege and conquest of Constantinople. That event had huge impacts on the geopolitical landscape, but took weeks to reach significant centers of influence. And that was considered very fast at the time.
argosfalcon @ 95
Pax Americana isn’t lasting that long, eh???
Information is a two edged blade, it can cut down a tyrant when its free, or enslave a people when its chained.
Mahalo, CTuttle. As a lurker I was nervous about my first attempted link. Used to be a vanguard of technology (had one of the first “laptop” computers that was the size of sewing machine” but have now become a luddite :-)
Mythological peace from the end of a gun rarely lasts long and tends to end badly for all involved.
CTuttle @ 94
I wouldn’t expect the military and aides to Petraues to do anything else but proclaim that the incident never happened. Why would he acknowledge that Maliki wants him out? And of course, I would also imagine that under pressure from the US, Maliki would also deny it happened.
technicolor @ 96
Ironically, it triggered the longest period of peace within the Muslim world, which endured longer than the Roman Empire did!
Apropos speaking out: this lawsuit recently filed by the ACLU. (I just picked this up from CrooksandLiars).
It’s time for photographs of the dead and injured. It’s time to see the suffering. It’s time for us not to tolerate the airbrushing of history happening all around us.
technicolor @ 99
Luddites Unite! I could certainly learn a trick or two! You’ve de-lurked on occasion, tho!!!
Yes, it was fascinating that the post-invasion Constantinople allowed religious freedom and was criticized for not imposing a strong Islamic government.
argosfalcon @ 95
Also see ‘Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism’ by V.I. Lenin. Oh, don’t forget that it has been discredited by modern thinkers. Modern thinking. Makes ya proud, don’t it. :)
technicolor @ 90
Perfectly good link, thanks.
New Thread!!!
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..emic-ends/
Funny how progressive/liberal governments produce such wonderful things, where more restrictive/ authoritarian ones create the greatest misery.
FYI, late nite
Thanks for your time tonight, Siun. Enjoy your week in Chicago!
Jane is due to be on CNN Sunday night news which is just coming on … should be good!
Thanks Laura!
Regarding the link…I have been wary of trying a link because I thought that I would screw up the margins or something. I shouldn’t have been so reluctant, but as a blog lurker I feared that I didn’t have enough knowledge and didn’t want to be embarrased. Finally I simply did a “cut and paste” and it worked. Should have had more faith in the blog infrastructure.
There is such a thing as progress: in the Middle Ages, murder rates were as high as 75 / 100,000 (in London – probably more like 25 / 100,000 in Europe). Currently it’s around 5 / 100,000 in the US (and 1.5 / 100,000 in Canada and other civilized countries, though in Colombia it’s still like 60 / 100,000).
Wars go the other way: 10% of casualties in the Civil War and WWI were civilian. Now it’s above 90%.
Every generation that fights says “No More War!”. And their children know (even though it’s not talked about). But their grandchildren don’t, because the marketeers for nationalism have bad backs, or bad eyesight or other priorities, so they can believably write odes to heroism which are fed to schoolchildren in desparate need of patriotic lesson plans… And so it starts all over again.
G’night all.
technicolor @ 114
If you are interested, Here are some simple and straightforward instrucitons on writing html, including links.
And welcome. Once you’ve de-lurked, it’s pretty difficult to go back.
argosfalcon @ 109
Bingo.
Technicolor – welcome aboard.
To add a link, just click the little LINK button above the comment box and then paste in the link and a description in the second screen – it will take everything you need.
Minor, rather boring point, but it’s the Asian Cup, not the Asian Games.
Thank you Dr Zen! fixed it …
one more update from SF
Way late, but interesting:
THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ: A MINISTRY OF FIEFDOMS
Interior Ministry mirrors chaos of a fractured Iraq
By Ned Parker
The nerve center of the nation’s police is not so much a government agency as an 11-story powder keg of factions.
Every floor, it appears, is run by a different group, or groups, since some floors have one wing run by one group and another wing run by a different one.
We have so much to answer for.
(But I was glad to see people there happy after that football game. It’s probably the best time they’ve had in the last four years.)