This Anne-Marie Slaughter op-ed has sparked a lot of interesting controversy as to whether it actually is the dumbest article ever, or merely a strong contender for the title. And indeed it sets a high bar for waterheaded reflexive insider Hymns to Meaningless Bipartisanship.
Such hymns are of course never in short supply. Perhaps inspired by Slaughter’s fine performance, David Ignatius now clears his throat to Sing Hosannas to the spirit of the Bipartisan Deity, and it is every bit as wonderful and inspiring as you might imagine. Ignatius’s piece is jaw-dropping astounding right from the get-go:
Try to imagine what was running through the mind of Hassan Kazemi Qomi, Iran’s ambassador to Baghdad, as he sat across the negotiating table from his American counterpart, Ryan Crocker, last week. While the U.S. diplomat delivered his stern warning against Iranian meddling in Iraq, Qomi must have wondered: Why should I listen to this guy? Congress is going to start pulling U.S. troops out soon, no matter what he says.
Fascinating. In the first place, as Ignatius himself notes later on, this is Bush’s war, and under our system, there’s no way he can be persuaded to start “removing troops soon” — even if he is impeached, it’s not clear that would result in immediate American withdrawal from Iraq. This is not a particularly rarefied insight. I bet even the wily Iranians are capable of achieving it.
In the second place, who exactly in Congress is advocating an immediate, reckless withdrawal? Why, absolutely nobody! The specific issue is to do with timetables. Either Ignatius doesn’t know this, which means he’s stupid, or else he does know it, and he’s mendacious. Or perhaps he is just so enchanted by Serious Person Bipartisan Consensus Adoration that it makes him say dumb things. And go on saying them:
That’s the difficulty for Crocker and Gen. David Petraeus as they try to manage a stable transition in Iraq while Congress chants ever more loudly: “Troops out! Troops out!” It’s hard for anyone to take American power seriously when prominent members of Congress are declaring the war already lost.
It’s even harder for anyone to take American power seriously when the war actually is lost — a point that seems to elude Ignatius altogether… except, oddly enough, that it doesn’t:
That’s a lesson retired Air Force Gen. Chuck Boyd tried to impart to a group of newly minted brigadier generals last week. America has never won a war that lasted more than four years, he reminded them, with the exception of the Revolutionary War, when we were the insurgents and it was Britain that tired of the faraway struggle.
Future military planners will have to recognize that American democracy, in which political mandates must be renewed in two-year increments, makes us uniquely unsuited to fight protracted counterinsurgency wars. Petraeus likes to observe that it takes, on average, at least nine years to prevail in such a war. If that measure is correct, Petraeus must know there is little chance that a frustrated and angry American public will grant him enough time for success.
The logic here is amazing: it is impossible to win this war, everyone knows it, but Congress shouldn’t say so because that gives the Iranians ideas they otherwise wouldn’t have had because apparently they are too dumb to perceive the obvious on their own, and also Congress needs to stop calling for the reckless withdrawal they’re not actually calling for. GENIUS!
And I haven’t even gone into how Ignatius cites the fact that the US is now arming Sunni militias as a reason not to withdraw: see, “We are, in effect, arming both sides for this sectarian battle,” and, I suppose, we must complete the process in order to… what, make sure the “coming conflict” is as bloody as possible? Snark fails me…
He ends with a Stern Warning:
The United States is on its way out of Iraq eventually, but it matters powerfully how we disengage — most of all to Democrats, who at this point seem likely to inherit the responsibility for America’s security 18 months from now.
And when they do inherit this complete and utter mess, Ignatius will I am very sure be there from Day One to helpfully point out how it is somehow All Their Fault.
This, you see, is what is truly meant by Bipartisanship.



303 Comments





Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
zed
Hi Thers!
Thers!!!
Hey-lo!
Great post, Thers. Thank you.
You can run but you can’t hide.
Yes. Excellent post. Thoughtful arguments.
BigMitch @ 6
Is Barry playing tonight?
July 28 (Bloomberg) — The Bush administration will ask Congress next week to approve an arms-sale package to Saudi Arabia and five other Persian Gulf countries that may total more than $20 billion, Rebecca Goodrich-Hinton, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said.
Included in the package are advanced satellite-guided bombs, fighter-aircraft upgrades and new naval vessels. The administration also plans to announce a new 10-year military aid package to Israel and Egypt. The steps are part of an effort by the Bush administration to counter Iran’s rising influence.
The administration of President George W. Bush has been seeking help from Iraq’s neighbors to quell sectarian violence and keep it from spreading in the region. It’s also seeking support in containing Iran’s nuclear ambitions and for its new push for an Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement.
While there will likely be congressional opposition to the arms sale, “This deal will go through,” said Samer Shehata, a Middle East political analyst at Washington-based Georgetown University. “This is great business for the U.S., and this is a huge amount of money that benefits American corporations.”
snip
Twain @ 8
So far he’s an o-fer
Again, Thers, pardon me. I’m looking, but still nothing in WP or NYT on Cheney’s condition. Weird.
Twain, Rick, thanks.
Thers! And the Night of the Living (Bipartisan) Brain Dead. It boggles the mind that these people are allowed to cross the street on their own.
Loo Hoo. @ 11
That’s because everyone knows that Cheney’s condition never changes: he is undead.
Cheney update:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap…..Cheney.php
BigNitch @ 10
Like Willie with #511/512. Lots of waiting, big celebration when it happened. I think more for 511 than 512 … there’s a story in Willie’s Time of an elderly woman suddenly hopping up and down in the Fairmont lobby, and a waiter dropping a tray. (I remember doing some quiet jumping up and down myself – I was supposed to be in bed and asleep.)
Loo Hoo. @ 11
NYTimes
This whole thing about a precipitous withdrarwal is just a smoke screen to keep the base and the jingoists fired up.
Just as in Viet Nam, the North knew we would be leaving someday no matter how many bases we had. Hell, no one is going to relocate to Iraq. Every single Iraqi and other interested parties kn ows this, it isn’t a big secret.
Why don’t I hear that from any of our distinguished gentlemen or gentleladies in Congress? We are leaving at some point in time, this isn’t an infinite occupation.
The thing the Bushies fear is being called to account for the crimes they committed under international laws as they pertain to occupaying forces including lack of potable water, lack of electricity, lack of medical care, lack of schools, lack of forces capable of keeping order, installation of a bogus government “elected” while the occupier controlled the country. The list goes on and on.
Carry on, firepups. I’ll catch up in the morning. This cat’s off to bed.
P J Evans @ 16
To me, his greatest homerun was in his first game on the NY Mets. It was a walk off job on Mother’s day. I had gone to every game since he was traded to the mets, hoping to see his return, but on Mother’s day I took my mom to see “A funny thing happened on the way to the forum.” with Phil Silvers and Zero Mostel. So I missed it. But the Mets went on to win the pennant.
And as far as revisionism goes, the occupying forces failed to protect vital cultural institutions and allowed documents and artifacts that were thousands of years old, which tend to invalidate their timeline of the existence of life on earth, to be dsstroyed and stolen.
Sorry…what we allowed in that country and what we continue to prosecute there really pisses me off on top of the utter horror of the losses sustained by our troops and the Iraqi people themselves.
OT… but it’s my post…
And the hits keep coming:
We’ve come a long way this week. Tomorrow would be a good time to take a deep breath and assess our going forward.
It’s taken since 2001 to bring this Constitutional crisis to a head. It’s a slow process but but it’s sure when The People rule.
Impeachment has moved from off the table to the back burner to warm, not by Congress, but by the will of The People. I hope that our representatives watch the flame so that it doesn’t boil over.
I’ve been thinking about Bush having to at some point declare martial law. But then I realize that if he handles martial law as well as he’s handled Katrina and Iraq…
Does anyone know when Congress recesses in August?
re-howdy y’all
Evening, Cassie. How life in the Lone Star State?
Subway Serenade @ 23
The other night we were discussing what will be the final tipping point for this criminal regime. There have been so many that should have been. But if there is another katrina like hurricane, and Bush doesn’t do any better than last time, my advice would be to buy pitchfork and torch futures.
Rick DeVille @ 15
Evening, Cassie!
DrDick @ 26
Lightning!
Otherwise all is good. My brother was here for a while today but if it rains more they’ll send him back to help near the rivers.
hi james
SnarKassandra @ 30
The flooding down there is approaching biblical curses…wonder if Bush considers this god talking to him?
SnarKassandra @ 30
Must be nice to see your brother again. We could use some of that rain up here right now, though I am sure y’all are sick to death of it (especially your brother). Had a few small to medium sized fires start up in the last couple of days, but we are still waiting for the holocaust to strike.
And on top of everything, the money we’re throwing at reconstruction is wasted:
(From the today.)
Ooops, link to the article disappeared:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..mp;ei=5087
Thers @ 22
From that post:
Three people directly involved in its preparation said its publication was blocked by William R. Steiger, a spec*alist in education and a scholar of Latin American history whose family has long ties to President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Since 2001, Steiger has run the Office of Global Health Affairs in the Department of Health and Human Services.
Richard H. Carmona, who commissioned the “Call to Action on Global Health” while serving as surgeon general from 2002 to 2006, recently cited its suppression as an example of the Bush administration’s frequent efforts during his tenure to give scientific documents a political twist. At a July 10 House committee hearing, Carmona did not cite Steiger by name or detail the report’s contents and its implications for American public health.
~~~ModNote: edited to clear filters.~~~
BigMitch @ 27
Here’s how to make a torch. And really you need a hay fork (long thin tines), not a pitchfork (stronger tines for loosening soil).
Thers @ 22
WTF, Thers. Are you trying to say that Bush is anti-scientific? Then how do you explain this?
But some who now wish to test their alternatively derived cells have found themselves stymied by an unexpected barrier: President Bush’s stem cell policy.
The 2001 policy says that federal funds may not be used to study embryonic stem cells created after Aug. 9 of that year. It is based on the assumption that the only way to make the cells is by destroying human embryos — a truism in 2001 but not any longer.
As a result, the National Institutes of Health recently refused to consider a grant application for what would have been the first federal study to compare several of the new, less politically contentious stem cell lines.
“This is not the way to make good health policy,” said Robert Lanza, the frustrated vice president for research and scientific development at Advanced Cell Technology (ACT) in Worcester, Mass. Lanza submitted the study proposal with stem cell experts from several major research labs.
Respectful Dissent @ 34
But remember the reconstruction projects built by the Americans have been horrible. Why would an Iraqi building inspector sign off on them? Why would we consider insulting these professionals further?
Carmona’s description of the way he was treated by his political overlords was just another bit of the bigger picture, the fox in charge of the henhouse syndrome that this administration has taken to a new level. I shudder to think what they are going to do during the August recess.
Dr. Dick, if you are worried about a wildfire where you are, why don’t you leave? Not being smartass here, just worried about you.
Giants tie it in the bottom of the ninth. Bonds may get another chance.
Loo Hoo. @ 41
I am not in any personal danger (I live in the middle of a city of 60,000). However, if we have a bad fire season (as seems likely), then it becomes more difficult to spend time in the forests (a prime reason for living here) and we get huge amounts of smoke. The latter is actually hazardous to your health (made me feel like I was back to smoking 2-3 packs a day last time we had a bad year). We are already suffering with bad air quality from smoke coming in from fires in Idaho.
Ah yes, the call for bi-partisanship, co-operation & civility. Reminds me of the “time for healing” that Ford gave us with his pardon of Nixon.
Personally, I see no reason to stop kicking a jack-booted thug just because he’s down.
BigMitch @ 27
I really think they believed in 2006 that Rove actually had “The Numbers.” Perhaps it’s hubris in the extreme, but there really doesn’t seem to be any way of him getting a beer hall putsch let alone martial law.
Huh. My first mod clean-up at #36. The word specialist? Help?
[Mod Note; there is a brand name drug inside the word you accurately suspect tripped up your earlier comment.]
Thers says: July 28th, 2007 at 8:26 pm:
That article on the suppreseed Surgeon General’s report is sickening. No wonder Carmona was so pissed off at the hearing. The WH has no believable lines left. WH said at his appointment that Carmona was the bold fearless action figure hero doc -he was in special forces, rapels freom helicopters and rescues people, kicks ass. No sissy pants public health social engineering nerd was he. So, now they say it is too bad there were ‘misunderstandings’ and he was just this timid mild guy… he was just afraid to take initiative, they just kinda guess was the problem, he didn’t know what to do. Who believes that garbage?
If the (I hope ex-) wingnut they are nominating now has any professional ethics, he will get the same treatment, and we will hear the same testimony from him in few years.
As for the Ignatius column about the big bad Congress stabing Bush’s disaster in the back, what nonsense.
What follows is unfortunately in a hypothetical world that will never happen. But. All it would take to change everything, with Congress, with the public, and believe it or not, greately improve chances for decent outcome in Iraq is one thing. Bush. Bush shuts Cheney down, calls a bipartisan meeting with Congress, including a few GOPers with a shred of cred left (Hagel I guess is about it, he finally actually did something with his vote instead of his mouth).
And Bush says… ‘let’s talk. Let’s have comprehensive regional talks (including Sauid Arabia, Iran and Syria), let’s cut the crony capitalism out of this oil bill I’m pusing, let’s get serious about internationalizing, and OK, here’s what the real plan is for the mega air bases… here is what I think we need for my strategerical planification. Let’s negotiate something we can be honest with about the with the public.
That is all it would take for a big change.
Too bad it won’t happen.
Bush’s line is laughable, no wonder he is going down to mid 20s in the polls. “Every move I made has backfired, nothing I said or predicted has happened, thousands of soldiers lives, thousands and thousands and thousands of civilian lives, billions a billions of bucks, national and energy security for the next… long time… appears to be going down the toilet all because of me. See, I am right. Congress job is to write me a blank check. And they better get on sending the next one, pronto”
OK, so we don’t want to write this miserable failure blank checkes anymore. Cut off the fool’s booze supply. And these pundit goofs portray that as a stab in the countries’, the soldiers’ the Iraqis’ backs. It is ridiculous. I can’t believe they get paid money to hack out this nonsensical tripe.
It’s just too depressing.
BigMitch –
I left an EPU’d comment downstairs, in response to one of yours — parsing the conflict, and Lieberman’s role in it.
-ck- @ 47
brb
I find Bush to be very Somoza like. The failed last leader of a corrupt family full of dictators and autocrats.
One of the big unmasking moments for the Somoza’s was the family looting international aid sent to help the nation after a disastrous earthquake.
Sometimes mother nature helps with the unmasking.
-GSD
BigMitch @ 42
Nope! Durham scored the winning run with Bonds on Deck! Hey, Mitch the Bosox only leads the AL East by 9 games over the Evil Empire! :P
I have to think Anne-Marie Slaughter is a very strong contender. Now to read Ignatius. Diving mask in place…. blub blub
masaccio @ 51
I think either of those pieces requires full hazmat gear lest you contract DCPV (DC Pundit Virus) which ultimately leads to total brain death, preceded by uncontrolled drooling and hysterical gibberish.
DrDick @ 53
Sounds fatal, Doc!!!
CTuttle @ 53
Yes, but like most retrovirus it is a slow killer. You linger in a state of drooling imbecility for years (witness David Broder) before the end finally comes. Truly pathetic and pitiable.
The withdrawal writing must be on the wall because the absolute dire shrillness of those screaming about the eventuality is becoming deafening.
The latest LTE in the local paper posits that “Democrats” will have blood on their hands with the ensuing slaughter in Iraq.
Now the Bush apologists are concerned about Iraq civilians again.
-GSD
BigMitch @ 49
Reasonable people may disagree about whether recognition is the first or the last step. I was trying to describe Joe’s core beliefs.
I am one of the most hawkish people I know in my circle of Jewish friends, and lately A*P*C has gone beyond what I can stomach. But I attend briefings from A*P*C and I believe the intransigence is a bargaining position. Of course, WTFDIK?
DrDick @ 55
Any cure, Doc?
The latest LTE in the local paper posits that “Democrats” will have blood on their hands with the ensuing slaughter in Iraq.
LTE=? please
Mitch, are you ignoring my 51? ;-)
CTuttle @ 57
None has been found as yet, though total immersion in reality has shown some promise.
CTuttle @ 60
Yes.
(It’s not whether you win or lose, it’s whether you win at the end.)
I don’t believe I have ever met Ther before now, and other mods have criticisized my few baseball oriented comments.
Mitch,
Letter To the Editor.
-GSD
Rising from the depths, I can now report that Ignatius is utterly irrelevant. The entire thing makes no sense. At least Anne-Marie Slaughter is talking about something that once had meaning, even though that was long ago and far away. Ignatius is in alternative universe where stupid has replaced carbon.
And I have a bad headache and my muscles are sore. I think I need to lie down for a while.
DrDick @ 61
Not even by extricating them from the Beltway?
BigMitch @ 62
Did I also mention they have the best record in the bigs?
Metacomets revenge.
Mass. votes for a Wampanoag casino.
-GSD
CTuttle @ 65
That is the first step in the immersion therapy. However, it requires total immersion over prolonged periods to be effective and even then relapses are likely. Shorter periods OTB (outside the beltway) actually aggravate the condition and produce periods of manic delusional states.
Subway Serenade @ 45
I’m sure that you understand that by having “the math” it was all about having “voter fraud” convictions, right? These were designed to make sure Democrats lost votes. And it worked. Next
DrDick @ 68
Dang, that is scary! ;-)
GSD @ 56
Again? When were they concerned about Iraqi civilians before?
BigMitch @ 57
You know a lot, and express yourself very thoughtfully. I believe that A*P*C’s intransigence is an impediment to a resolution of the conflict, whether or not A*P*C views it as a bargaining position. What is most unfortunate are the negative effects of A*P*C’s intransigence, combined with their political clout.
All of the current troubles have their origins in the Six Day War — they have been decades in the making, and will take decades to unravel.
Peterr @ 70
Any time anyone suggests leaving Iraq.
Either Ignatius doesn’t know this, which means he’s stupid, or else he does know it, and he’s mendacious.
No, please, please, please, stop using this formulation.
Ignatius and all the rest are lying. They know it, and are now praying that somehow they will never get called on it.
STOP.
-ck- @ 73
That’s a promising outlook. Some say the problems have their origins in the book of Genesis, and will take centuries to unravel.
Gunga Djinn @ 44
I do. It’s a bit difficult to kick and handcuff at the same time. And do you really want to engender sympathy for the defendants by gratuitously kicking them?
GSD says: July 28th, 2007 at 9:18 pm.
I read recently that the military told Cheney/dub that April 2008 is it. No more people to send. I’ve read a lot about the Cheney/dub’s disaster breaking the military. I wondered if it were justPentagonbureaucratic smoke to scare some sense into the nutcases in charge. But maybe April 2008 is really it, unless they want to draft people.
So, they have to get their excuses all lined up like ducks. And rehearse them to see which ones fly and which ones die. Get the best memes ‘out there.’
Why supposed big thinkers, serious analysts and purportedly wise old hands like Ignatius feel that they should help out with this I don’t know. Maybe you have to have a minimum number of shameless liar inside sources to keep your editorial column. Anyone see these pundits contracts? Is there a “minimum number of slimy administration sleazy pooh-bah sources” clause in them?
My real theory is so cynical and nasty I don’t want to admit I believe it. But I think the corporate suits love the Cheney/dub-naught wing of the GOP too much to let it go, and are willing to risk everything (their souls, their sane audience, their credibility). Big corporate profits. Crony capitalist media goodies. Losing audience is OK, since they each figure their corporation will win out in the corporate crony capitalism race for government goodies, and they will be the the bigshot monopolist or duopolist media giant left to run everything. So what else matters? So they tell their people what to say and do. And there are enough schmucks to go along with it, whether they can admit it to themselves or not.
I been radicalized these last six years regarding the media, big time.
Like I said, Joe Klein, if he keeps experimenting with critical thought and facts, will be a test case. Keep an eye on that Klein. What will happen to his TV gigs if blasts Holy Joe in front of Russert, scares the dogs and horses, damages Russert’s Q-score? -or whatever they call that likeability rating in TV.
BigMitch @ 62
True.
And in the end, only one New York team will be playing in October.
Mitch,
I imagine that the summer war with Hezbollah has caused much consternation.
That foolish endeavor by Olmert sure helped to puncture the air of invulnerability.
Nasrallah was just rallying the faithful and pointing out that the once vaunted Israeli military didn’t accomplish a single set goal last summer.
Heckuva job Ehud.
-GSD
On a philisophical level, I agree with that — on a practical level, it has more to do with 20th Century Anti-Semitism in general and the Holocaust in particular, than a three millenia old conflict.
burnspbesq @ 78
Go Mets!!!
Thers, not to skip your post, but that OT WaPo story really stomped on my last nerve. Here’s a political, non-scientific appointee reining in the scientists for trying to call attention to the way in which global diseases affect us in the US.
Oh, but we can’t put anything out there that might make the Bush administration look bad, can we?
Grrr . . .
Good evening dear friends. Just a quick drive-by to deliver the snack. I am exhausted. Headed for bed.
Could the next president have an executive order declaring that Bush must be blamed at least three times on each page of each federal document?
-GSD
GSD @ 85
She could, but what would it accomplish?
TexB @ 84
Thank You!!! Sleep Well, Ma’am!!!
-ck- @ 81
I guess maybe I should not say this but using a mythology that really gained its traction after a failed siege in 701 B.C., after which that mythology was used to reinforce social and political cohesion might not be the best meme to run with. Yes I know shut up.
burnspbesq @ 86
Hmmmm, yummy. Sleep well and wake refreshed and renewed on the morrow, my friend.
GSD @ 89
Well, if that’s what floats your boat, I suppose I could live with it.
Personally, I have a vision.
A vision of an Inaugural Address on January 20, 2009 that begins with the following words:
“My fellow Americans,
Our long national nightmare is over.”
wesgpc @ 78
I’ve also heard/read that we have reached the end of what we can borrow to continue the occupation. No more money. Period.
“bipartisans”
sounds like collaborators.
yellowdog jim @ 93
Actually, I think the word you’re looking for is “Quisling.”
Burns,
Have you ever read the Onion piece about Bush that begins like that?
-GSD
CTuttle @ 82
GSD @ 95
No, I haven’t. Got link?
Loo Hoo. @ 11
here ya go
This quest for “bipartisanship” is simply a shrewd way of holding ground taken during the last offensive.
They had a great 12 year run, and pushed things very far to the right.
They got caught and things are gonna get ugly for them for a while, so the whole gig is ceding as little ground as possible until the next irresistable package of bullshit arrives to be sold to a new generation who doesnt know any better.
I’m thinking football analogies. If I can get a few first downs every possession while keeping the other team to 3 short gains and a punt, I’m gonna be really successful.
burnspbesq @ 91
my vision is more about consequences.
reciprocity.
making a full accounting.
with floods of collective incandescence,
bringing these traitors, every one,
low,
by every measure.
i’ll cheer for the Inaugural.
but i need massive categorical repudiation
of these cheneyBu$hco FASCISTS.
but that’s just me.
Teddy –
After I hit the sack last night, you asked about searching through an old thread. I don’t use the search routine in the margins here — I think that only searches the posts, not the comments. What I do is use google, and start the search with “site:firedoglake.com” followed by whatever I can remember (or surmise) that a given comment was about. In the case of tracking down SOS in MA’s story about working on the Rosemary Woods 18 minute gap, I remembered enough of the story to plug in “18 minute gap Nixon tape” and maybe one or two other things to bring up the thread in question.
burn (however the hell you spell your name) I agree, totally. TOTALLY!
Personally, I have a vision.
A vision of an Inaugural Address on January 20, 2009 that begins with the following words:
“My fellow Americans,
Our long national nightmare is over.”
burnspbesq @ 94
i think that was the Merriam-Webster Word of the Day today.
It is truly a piece of literary comedy genius.
-GSD
Thank you!
Regarding your first point, yes, we’ve already lost the war and are now throwing good money (and blood) after bad — “bad,” in the sense of poorly invested, i.e., squandered by fools. And we are doing so only to spare our Leader the embarrassment of acknowledging defeat. The foolishness of protracted warfare has been known for millenia:
Your second point, “The US is now arming Sunni militias as a reason not to withdraw: see, “We are, in effect, arming both sides for this sectarian battle,” and, I suppose, we must complete the process in order to… what, make sure the “coming conflict” is as bloody as possible?”
Right! We can’t withdraw for in that case the on-going civil war would become too deadly (i.e., lethal). So we must stay to prevent that from happening. Meanwhile we train and arm troops from both sides to enhance their “combat effectiveness,” i.e., lethality. Snark fails indeed!!
Even the sports page was ugly in today’s (Saturday’s) paper.
Remember Ian Johnson, the Boise State running back who scored the winning two-point conversion in the Fiesta Bowl and then proposed to his cheerleader girlfriend on national TV afterwards? Well, they got married today … amid extra security. Seems that high-visibility African-American athletes who marry white girls still get death threats in this country. From Saturday’s LA Times.
burnspbesq @ 104
Northern Idaho (and the northern Rockies generally) is a hot bed for the Christian Identity Movement and other white supremacists.
Walter Mondale goes after Dick Cheney in tomorrow’s WaPo . . . big time:
Indeed.
I am trying to be respectfull of Thers. This is neither a sports blog or an Israel/Palestinian thread. I agree with some of the philosophic and thoughtful things people are saying to bait me into a discussion, namely, “Let’s go Mets.”
As to the war against Hezbollah, either you believe or you do not believe that Hezbollah is an Iranian backed terrorist organization. I am a believer, you should pardon the expression. That having been said, if you agree, then you should have supported a more active incursion to wipe out Hezbollah. No less a light than the the President of the United States said we will attack terrorists and those who harbor them. Okay, so W is a schmuck, we can all agree on that. But ought not we to be fighting against terrorism, as I argued here?
Well, nevermind that, the point is that I am not too upset by killing Hezbollah fighters. Here’s how I would have done it. Here is my impassioned defense of Israel’s conduct in the war. Later I supplied some proof of my defense of Israel.
Where were the liberals when this was going on? I hate the expression “stab in the back,” but Jewish support for liberal causes has been so consistent for so long, that it is painful to see how the liberal world reacted to the attacks on Israel. Part of the reason, of course, was the libral Jew-controlled media, I’m sure. See also, here.
~~~ModNote: Released from moderation after filter tripped for exceeding maximum number of links.~~~
Hopefully the nation will want to heal after the Bush/Cheney pirates are done raping and looting.
-GSD
I understand your cynicism, truly:
My real theory is so cynical and nasty I don’t want to admit I believe it. But I think the corporate suits love the Cheney/dub-naught wing of the GOP too much to let it go, and are willing to risk everything (their souls, their sane audience, their credibility). Big corporate profits. Crony capitalist media goodies. Losing audience is OK, since they each figure their corporation will win out in the corporate crony capitalism race for government goodies, and they will be the the bigshot monopolist or duopolist media giant left to run everything. So what else matters? So they tell their people what to say and do. And there are enough schmucks to go along with it, whether they can admit it to themselves or not.
But, we have to fix it! If not us, then who?
burnspbesq @ 76
It doesn’t have to be gratuitous.
Damn. I just wrote a long post, to answer all the coments directed at me, and it disappeared. Several links in it. Could it be in Mod land?
Not to mention that there is likely to be extraordinary carnage in Iraq in the next 36 hours. The Iraqi national men’s soccer team plays in the championship game of the Asian Cup tournament on Sunday, against Saudi Arabia. When Iraq defeated South Korea in the semifinals on Wednesday, the streets of Baghdad were full of joyous fans; support for the national team is deep and runs across sectarian lines. Of course, those celebrating throngs proved to be irresistible targets for suicide bombers. From espn.com.
Funny how the GOP and the Republican Noise Machine all started the “bipartisanship” meme AFTER they got their asses kicked last November.
Remember 1994 when Newt Gingrich said that President Clinton was irrelevant?
How about Bill Frist’s “nuclear option” and the screaming for “up or down” votes in the Senate?
Bipartisan? To paraphrase Gunny Hartman from Full Metal Jacket, the GOP leaders are the type who would fuck somebody in the ass and not even have the courtesy to give him a reach-around.
Hello? Mod? 112?
BigMitch @ 116
If you refresh your browser, it’s there.
TeddySanFran @ 98
Bong Hits 4 Broder!
P.S. Nice catch in your comment.
BigMitch @ 113
Yes.
Length will get you caught in the filters, as will more than four or so links and also the use of various words common in email spam. Reload the page (not refresh comments) and your comment will appear in all its glory.
merriam-webster today said:
Maybe some kind of secret code?
myiq2xu @ 114
The “bipartisanship = date rape” meme gets old in a hurry when you become the date.
Bush uses “bipartisan” to mean “Dems doing what I want.”
He uses “partisan” to mean, “They didn’t do what I wanted.”
More word tricks by deceitful bumper sticker meisters.
Fortunately for us, “stay the course” and “mission accomplished” were such successful themes that we can hang them around the Reps necks for the next 19 months.
yellowdog jim @ 103
IIRC, the common fate of Quislings was that their tongues were amputated.
alrighty then, there we have it. It was Republican president George W Bush’s inherent failure of responsibility to secure the US on 9/11/2001.
Glad that is clear now.
RBG @ 117
Thank you. For future reference, what is the max number of links, please?
TeddySanFran @ 98
Thanks, Teddy.
BigMitch @ 125
If I answered that, then any spammer would know it as well.
BigMitch @ 125
How many would you like, Mitch?
5 ought to do it. And shouting at moderators is discouraged, no matter how important the comment.
Why we MUST IMPEACH…even if we must do so after Bush has left office!
Bush, through his own Executive Order, has essentially allowed a former President to block the release of his Presidential Records (inclusive of the entireity of his Administration…under his new interpretation of “Executive Privilege”) even if the Current President wants to allow their release.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..-2001Oct31
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2001/11/eo-pra.html
Only by stripping the President and VP of their “emoluments” of office (and former office) through impeachment can this power to block investigation of the crimes of this cabal ever occur.
IMPEACH!
“removal from Office and disqualification from holding any office of trust, honor or profit under the United States.”
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardonop3.htm
And then there’s Deb Howell. Seems the Post has been getting some feedback on the Clinton Cleavage story. Who could have anticipated . . .
After giving the story an “on the one hand . . . on the other hand” kind of evaluation, she ends with this:
Yikes? You mean the Post didn’t do a story on Bush’s “Commander Codpiece” attire at his landing on the USS Lincoln to declare “mission accomplished”?
Peterr @ 101
thanks, Peterr. how’s the packing going?
Well I think I will call it a night. Take care and enjoy the snark.
Loo Hoo. @ 102
I like the concept, but the timing lags. Could we get there this fall, please?
TeddySanFran @ 131
Packing expands to fill the time until the moving truck arrives.
wigwam @ 123
i am anti-torture/ anti-mutilation.
i would prefer a crueler execution.
let each traitor die of shame and humiliation.
very sloooooowly.
let it take a lifetime.
longer.
until they see, feel, taste the error of their ways.
until their karma runs over their dogma.
until they can feel the appropriate Unbearable guilt.
until they want to kill themselves.
THEN make them live.
yellowdog jim @ 135
I believe the Princess Bride summarized that by saying not “to the death” but “to the pain.”
Let the dancing begin.
Tower of Power on “Soul Train.”
cinnamonape @ 129
OMFG!!! That’s it: impeachment of ex-presidents! Upon impeachment, an ex-president would lose his pardonability. In fact, it would void any pardons he already has. BEAUTIFUL!!!
Peterr @ 130
How did they report this?
GSD @ 104
And yet — sad, now.
Hello everyone… just popped in to see what was going on….
ladies and gents,
A national treasure.
Peterr @ 128
Yeah, that “readers… also want to know who these people are, about their families and their lives” has worked really, really well to give us the best possible representatives in Washington… like we all got a great deal by the press pushing the meme that Bush would be a great next-door neighbor, someone with whom you’d just love to have a beer.
Giving us an insight into “hot-tub” Tom’s luverly wife and daughter sure diverted attention from his generally insane and greedy approach to politics.
Yup, humanizing monsters is a great and necessary task which the national press is obligated to do, and conversely, making monsters out of ordinary politicians is necessary to achieve “balance.”
I have some serious policy differences with the Clintons, but none of them have one single thing to do with how much cleavage Hillary Clinton is showing. She could show her tits on the Senate floor at high noon and it wouldn’t change my belief that she’s entirely too cozy with the big boys on Wall Street, and their notions about what’s good for the country–and their very wealthy friends….
BigMitch @ 139
If they covered it, I think the paper boys included brain bleach with every copy of the paper they delivered. Online viewers were on their own.
Got to head to bed. G’nite, all!
nite nite, peterr
BigMitch @ 139
by all that is Holy and Good PLEASE, tell me I did NOT click that link!
i guess (???) that
if we impeached, convicted and removed from office Both shrub and big Time …
well, would President Pelosi get to have an Inaugural?
yellowdog jim @ 147
I’ve seen that picture before. Since Cheney’s full medical history has never been made public, I assumed it was some type of bladder or colostomy bag. Hate to say that, but given his ego, I was certain that would be one facet of his physical “challenges” he would never want revealed.
Congress has established that they DO have jurisdiction on trials of impeachment for FORMER officials. In the case of Secretary of War, William W. Belknap, who resigned for office on the eve of his impeachment trial, both the House and Senate voted that Congress did have the authority to determine “disqualification from holding offices of trust, honor, and profitunder the United States.” Thus this was not only an act to deal with a current miscreant, but one that might benefit from future positions or powers obtained as a result of their current office.
One of the most cited Impeachment trials by the Framers of the Constitution was Edmund Burke’s impeachment prosecution of the former Governor General of the British East Indian Company. Thus the used a trial of an already resigned official to justify their placement of Impeachment into the Constitution.
While in many cases Impeachments are, in fact, terminated by the resignation of the official…it is clear that this is NOT a necessary outcome. And where a former official would “profit” from their former office (through some power extended through the ability to block record release, franking privileges, or use of their title) then impeachment can bar the application of such powers.
http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?49 Duke L. J. 1
yell “oh, dong”, jim :~)
Jane (nyc) @ 149
Bless you, my child!
now i will be able to sleep.
if not just yet.
punaise @ 151
prit tee fun knee.
cinnamonape @ 150
Great citation. Given that it’s from a Duke Law Journal, am certain Addington’s read that one.
Maybe that’s why Dubya bought all of the property …a transaction the MSM largely ignored. He can move south and Dick can move with Halliburton to Dubai. They can live out their lives as wealthy men.
I think I read ‘lil Boots property is on a huge aquifer so he’ll be set.
A s-h-long as im just sitting here…
BigMitch @ 109
I, for one, was watching in horror as the IDF pounded the entire nation of Lebanon, slaughtering innocent people of all religions often far from the Hezbollah-dominated area.
FWIW, those weapons in your “proof” pictures appear not to be rockets but rather anti-aircraft guns in place to defend civilian areas against IDF aircraft.
Peterr @ 130
But Deb says the Cleavage Coverage was the most-read piece in the Post that day! So it must have been good journamilizm!
It’s also pretty clear that Deb’s got nothin’, Sunday after Sunday, and just piggybacks on popular stories or “reader complaints” — like maybe two.
Jane (nyc) @ 149
I think it’s where he keeps Chimpy … *g*
cinnamonape and wigwam have got me on the hook here, with cinnamonape’s good Impeachment talk.
so we get cheney and bushco impeached and removed from office,
AND we rescind their pardons and commutations?
Really?
Imagine ol’ Scooter sitting pretty when all a sudden, Patrick Fitzgerald taps him on the shoulder.
Sweet.
Pelosi ‘07 !
(talk of cutting out their tongues seemed too extreme for me,
HOWEVER when it come to impeachment,
i say go ahead and
take off their peaches!)
newtonusr @ 155
now that’s just gross.
(well done.)_
I presume “emoluments” includes Secret Service protection? Nice to see them have to hire Eric Prince’s little BlackHeartWaters to protect themselves.
yellowdog jim @ 160
With His Highness of PunDitry in the house, it’s always a reach to even venture there…
yellowdog jim @ 147
No biggie…That’s just where Dick keeps ‘Lambchop‘.
;>)
BigMitch @ 109
Apparently, one such liberal had this to say, to you, on your blog:
But, it does not seem you responded to this liberal.
darkblack @ 163
Well done!
thanks.
(whenever bush speaks
we never see both of cheney’s hands.)
wigwam @ 138
I’m not sure that Impeachment would deal with blocking the actions of the President prior to impeachment. It’s really a hot potato whether an act undertaken to “obstruct justice” can be rescinded.
Right-wingers once asserted that GWBush could revoke Clinton’s pardons and cited a case where incumbent Pres. Ulysses Grant did so with President Johnson’s pardon of several Confederate War leaders. But I can’t find the citations. It supposedly occurred in 1870-71.
newtonusr @ 162
you are brave.
we live the shadow of the Master of The Low Form.
Here something OT. http://blog.wired.com/27bstrok…..-cand.html
Why do republicans fear the people, sorry rhetorical question.
Anyone see this CBS report – kinda gives new meaning to the word fragging.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..ME_3107316
newtonusr @ 162
au contraire, et touchee!
Kemo — True, I did not respond to the comment on my blog, but I did go on to blog further on the subject. And, if the inference you are trying to create is that I was less than fair, why would I publish the comment in the first place. The comment from which you quote, makes a series of inferences to conclude that Israel could have been more discriminating in its application of force. Sorry, I am not persuaded. And then there is another leap to “collective punishment” which also leaves me behind.
Is it the opinion of the world that our campaign of “shock and awe” violated the Geneva Conventions? (This is different from the question of was it wise?) Israel’s campaign in Lebanon was a whole lot more focussed than our initial campaign in Iraq.
More to the point, where was the liberal outrage when Hezbollah acknowledged that it was targeting civilians in Israel? I must have missed it.
yellowdog jim @ 159
i’m not sure that recension of previous issued pardons and commutations are possible, as much as I would like this. Perhaps if the pardons were undertaken to “obstruct justice” and were thus, in themselves, illegal acts. Apparently US Grant rescended several of Pres. Johnson’s pardons of ex-Confedrate officials.
One large question exists as to whether a pardon for unspecified crimes and statutes can be issued. Thus, can a President issue a pardon for “all and any crimes committed while serving in such-and-such official capacity”? Or does the President have to specify WHAT crimes the individual committed in order for the pardon to be legitimate? I’m dubious that such a “blanket pardon” for all crimes, known or unknown, would be Constitutional. It’s sort of like a license to kill…and could even be issued “proactively” giving individuals extraordinary extrajudicial powers.
In addition, can pardons be held in secrecy until a certain point, and then revealed…perhaps even after the President has left office.
It seems that even IF such acts were adjudged to be within the plenary power of the President, Congress could insist that pardons have a specified form…that they be announced when issued, or specified for the crimes. This would not affect the plenary power of pardon, merely that the President be required to inform Congress of what the pardons ARE, and when they occur.
TPM
Not that he should be fired. The Times editorial in tomorrow’s paper says he should be impeached if Paul Clement, who for a complicated set of reasons is acting AG in this matter, doesn’t appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Gonzales’ numerous and increasingly overlapping bad acts.
Well I’m done here, but it would have been nice to have been told scram.
newspaperbrat @ 169
Am not sure any of us realize what’s really going on in recruiting circles these days. My sister is a high school principal in a poor, rural area. None of her recent grads have enlisted.
There’s no safe place in the service when cooks are pulled from subs to go to Afganistan and AF mechanics are sent to Iraq on guard duty.
It’s no wonder they keep lowering the standards for recruits. They have to.
GSD @ 50
Somoza was a guest of the Bush family after he was deposed by the Sandinistas. He and Poppy were good buds.
Bush, Jr. just purchased land in Paraguay, another stopping point for the war criminals who escaped on the rat lines with the help of just about every government including the Vatican.
I hope Chavez builds a huge coalition of the pissed off down there in South America and shoves his middle finger right in Bush’s face the next time they are anywhere near each other. But Goergie Boy is a bully…no chance of him actually going near anyone who would stand up to him.
I can smell the sulphur here.
punaise @ 173
The core of the “unitary executive theory” is that the executive body cannot sue itself. And so, to expect someone from the DOJ — the solicitor general, in this case — to investigate AG^2 is to expect the Bushies to renounce the unitary executive theory. I don’t.
it vazn’t him; it was Somoza guy.
–logging off, gn—
james @ 176
For real?
cinnamonape @ 172
Geral Ford’s pardon of Nixon specified for crimes that may have been committed from the date Nixon took the oath until 9 August 74.
Mary Jo White commenced an action in SDNY targeting Clinton’s pardon of Rich and she was able to get her hands on documents that Congress had been denied due to privilege assertions on the part of Clinton. When there’s a criminal action the privilege shield is lowered.
As far as pardons being revocable, I don’t think that’s true, although I’m sure if the pardon or commutation is viewed as a quid pro quo the DoJ ( a functioning DoJ) could commence a criminal investigation to determine if a bribery charge would be feasible.
BigMitch @ 179
He purchased more than 60,000 acres last year. I’ll look for a link.
BigMitch @ 171
You got me there, Chief.
Here’s one link on Bush’s land acquisition:
Counterpunch
and another:
Wonkette
I checked and it looks like we have functioning extradition treaties in place with Paraguay.
cinnamonape @ 172
i though that’s the sort of pardon bush1 gave caspar weinberger?
punaise @ 170
look out newton user, He’s here!
OMG!!!
It’s almost 3 a.m.
I gotta turn in folks,
have fun.
argosfalcon @ 174
scram.
heh.
cinnamonape @ 172
Your concerns are right on target. From what I’ve read, blanket pardons are allowed, e.g., Fords pardon of Nixon for all crimes he may have committed while president. That one wasn’t tested in court but I’ve read that pardons blanket pardons have been upheld in court. Pardons don’t have to enumerate the recipients and/or their crimes, but they do have to be accepted — but I found nothing about a deadline.
yellowdog jim @ 185
He rests for the evening I think. But I gotta get me a better cut-man if I end up in the ring with the King…
Guardian on Bush land grab
There’s no way Paraguay will extradite him if he owns/controls a large aquifer. I read in one of many articles in the overseas press that this land is near an air base where we have a large presence. ????
OMG
James, if you are still here, you have blown my mind. I am just in a state of shock.
james @ 181
From what I read it was closer to 100,000 acres. Also, Paraguay had just passed a law prohibiting the extradition of U.S. personnel.
newtonusr @ 189
aye!
he is a sharp one, he is.
The Bush-Land-Grab-in-Paraguay needs its own frontpage.
Maybe?
i got to go read y’all’s links.
like, rock and roll.
This is from Project Censored from the Journalism Department at Sonoma State Univ:
http://www.projectcensored.org…..dex.htm#25
Peterr @ 130
Oh, of course not! That would be so unsporting of them.
Besides, females are used to being weighed, judged, measured, graded on a scale of 1 to 10, given or not given work, all according to their looks.
If they don’t like it they should simply not be out in public.
/snark
Just checking in after spending a long day with my extended family – first day of a two-day annual reunion, honoring my mom’s 89th, my sister’s 65th and my niece’s 19th birthdays. 14 cousins playing in the park on Mercer Island. the cutest – by far – Nori, my grand-niece, a daughter of one of my sister’s adopted Cambodian orphans.
Hey, good to see you ET
wigwam @ 195
Great find!!! This is the best article I have read about what may be going on. It’s disheartening to consider what else the government may be up to while we’re so distracted by Iraq/Abu etc.etc.etc.
Hi ET! Is this family reunion what all the great salmon was for?
So you missed a little Israel debate here. But the most upsetting thing was that Bush is buying like 100,000 acres in Paraguay. What’s up with that?
BigMitch @ 198
What’d James write that blew you away? I can’t seem to find it.
about the paraguay land deal.
Ed*ard Teller @ 202
Here.
ET,
Nori is a beautiful name. Sounds Norse to me (wonder why, ha)…
*Oh my, I guessed right.
“….Nori’s name comes originally from the Old Norse poem Völuspá.”
http://www.glyphweb.com/Arda/n/nori.html
Who lives on Mercer Island?
newtonusr @ 200
newtonusr – Yeah! My favorite brother-in-law said the Chinook I cooked – my son caught it in the Copper River – was the best salmon he’s ever tasted. My Cambodian niece said my smoked salmon was like ambrosia.
Mitch – how have you missed this story? Came out early last fall. Which article impressed you the most? Howie Klein from downwithtyranny did a little investigating about the abutting Bush and Moon acquisitions here and at his blog in late November. No doubt, Art Bell has his own theories, eh pups?
BigMitch @ 201
War criminals always need a hidey-hole.
I need to go to bed but have to say, am somewhat astonished that people here had not heard about the land deal. You guys are the most literate, well-informed posters on the web.
My guess on Bush’s motives (in addition to the obvious, given the change in Paraguay’s law on extradition): this is another example of his using his office/influence for personal enrichment.
There has been discussion in overseas media that the wars of our future will be fought over fresh water. This land sits on one of the largest freshwater aquifers in the world. The large air base nearby can handle personnel and equipment to extract that water.
The possibilities for gain are mindboggling…doesn’t even address the natural gas.
I knew this “stunk to high heaven” when he sent Jenna with the papers!
BigMitch @ 201
Bush has committed War Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity, and multiple federal crimes.
At the time he initiated those purchases, the War Crimes Act of 1996 was still in full effect (i.e., before the MCA of 2006):
In short, the War Crimes Act makes violations of Common Article 3 into federal offenses, triable in federal courts.
In Hamdan v Rumsfeld the Supreme Court held that Common Article 3 applies to GWoT detainees, contrary to a presidential ruling advised by Gonzales. Since about three dozen detainees have died as a result of rough treatment, Bush could be tried in federal court for a capital offense.
Also, several northern European countries subscribe to the doctrine of universal jurisdiction regarding War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
Bush is covering his ass against all eventualities.
Jane (nyc) @ 209
Jane, it seems like I am the only one who missed it. In my defense, it came out just when I was served with divorce papers and I was mostly in a fetal position, during that month.
BigMitch @ 206
My sister and her husband. They have places in Sedona and Oahu too. They’re doing fine. In the 80s they adopted and/or were foster parents for a number of Cambodian kids, who have all gone on to be successful in a variety of ways. They never had kids of their own, but they are the most loving parents and grandparents I know.
He’s Jewish, from south Brooklyn, and says he argues with himself about Israel in the shower every day. Currently, he’s predicting Bibi’s comeback, praying for somebody sane instead for a change. Me, I’d rather talk about other stuff today.
Wigwam — what you say sounds like the rantings of a mad paranoid lunatic. And yet, the only thing crazier is to doubt that W is concerned that he may be tried for capital war crimes, and that he would take counter-measures.
BigMitch @ 213
It is all about the water and global warming, I’m sure.
Mitch,
You didn’t need to know about this then!!
What bothers me is that so much is missing from our conversation. My daughter has just started law school and is gettig a joint degree in int’l law.
She was raised in NYC and grew up with pretty great media access. However, the one daily paper she’s subscribed to now is “The Financial Times.
She says the difference in the coverage of pertinent news is astonishing. The same goes for CNN International vs. the Faux Fox lite version we get.
BigMitch @ 211
Mitch – I vaguely recall the deal, and rereading the pieces James linked to refreshed it for me.
And Jane – with ChimpCo’s almost daily release of fresh hell on the planet, it’s a wonder we recall this…
Jane, Don’t you get the feeling that we are on the cusp of a big change with respect to that? The internet enables us to be so much more informed than the gatekeepers would allow.
BigMitch @ 217
Agree completely about the internet but I’m worried about its freedom/accessibility.
Jane (nyc) @ 218
Well, it does threaten very powerful interests.
wigwam @ 188
His pardon was actually restricted to “crimes against the United States.”
His warcrimes and crimes against humanity were not included, not that it mattered.
“Now, therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from July (January) 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.”
And now that Dalek has documented fully the two years political refusal to withdraw from the lost war in Vietnam, at a cost of 26,000 soldiers, clearly his crimes against the United States were minor in comparison with his crimes against OUR TROOPS and their families.
Gerald Ford became president because he was willing to do the pardon, and for no other reason. Another great Republican accomplishment.
But hey, at least he didn’t sell missiles to our supposed enemies via their supposed enemy, and transfer the money to deathsquads doing what the biggest arms dealer in the Middle East says they are afraid of.
Hi:
I’m too tired to sleep – is anyone still here?
BigMitch @ 211
I don’t think Bush is at all concerned about being tried for war crimes–in his mind, he’s done everything right.
Never forget the Bush family motto: public service for private gain. There’s money to be made in this in some way. Bush isn’t going to be hiding out in Paraguay–it would overtax his paltry Spanish, and there are very few fawning Republicans in Paraguay and no world-class golf courses. The proximity of this land to Bolivia, a U.S./Paraguayan military base, land owned by a non-profit with his father on its board, and land owned by Sun Myung Moon is all one need know. Bush thinks there’s money to be made, by hook or by crook.
BigMitch @ 211
cripes, I say, cripes deluxe!
see, there really are so many atrocities being committed by cheneybu$hco that it is a challenge to keep up.
cheneybu$hco corruption never sleeps.
just drop out of the loop for a few days and one can miss whole new scandals. (and have one hell of a lot of reading to catch up on here and at The Next Hurrah.)
i had heard zero about the paraguay escape plan until now.
double self-doubting Cripes!
Maybe i did hear about this too?
and it was not able to register through all the other detritus.
or i had some neurological fade out.
it happens.
anyway, i am wound up about paraguay now.
BigMitch @ 219
And if the structure to limit/control/attenuate it is creatively structured, it will make a very few people a lot of money. I have a hunch t
It’s startling to even conceive how much less we’d know and how much less powerful we would be right now without “the toobz”. The MSM’s pass on their jobs really helped places like this get started.
The PTB can’t be happy about that. I’m not surprised our worldwide rank in access to broadband keeps slipping.
BigMitch @ 213
May I recommend: http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..54615/1194
re #224 – don’t blog in the dark, even under a full moon….
Paul in LA @ 220
The problem with War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity is that they are not crimes against the U.S. (i.e., Federal offenses). The War Crimes Act of 1996 made war crimes into federal offenses but the MCA of 2006 is supposed to have gutted that (so I’m told). So now there’s no way to prosecute them in federal courts.
Also, there isn’t much hope of prosecuting our war criminals in the International Criminal Court: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…..inal_Court
Paul in LA @ 220
In order to do something like that you would need to have someone willing to make up a phony time-line to deceive Congress. And such a person could never be confirmed as Secretary of Defense. Or could he?
Here’s something I wrote last January:
In my summary of the Iran-Contra scandal, I elided over some of the many contradictions and outright lies that Ronald Reagan told regarding sales of missiles to Iran, and the involvement of other countries. You can read about them in an article by Eric Alterman in the American Prospect. The point is that enough lies had been told, especially by the Great Communicator, that pressure was building for a credible explanation of the affair.
That’s when Robert Gates, deputy director of the CIA, joined CIA chief William Casey and National Security Advisor John Poindexter, to produce a phony chronology of the “enterprise,” to cover up their illegal deeds and protect Reagan. Oliver North and Poindexter would later testify that the chronologies were deliberately “inaccurate.”
Incidentally, Poindexter was convicted on multiple felony counts on April 7, 1990 for conspiracy, obstruction of justice, perjury, defrauding the government, and the alteration and destruction of evidence pertaining to the Iran-Contra Affair.[fn] Naturally, that didn’t stop him from serving in the Bush administration. From December, 2002, to August, 2003, Poindexter served as the Director of the DARPA Information Awareness Office (IAO). But I digress.
Back to the subject at hand: Robert Gates. Eric Alterman concludes his article on Gates by saying:
That strikes Big Mitch as a rather modest hope. Couldn’t we at least aspire to having a government that doesn’t hire people who were right in the middle of lying to Congress to protect a criminal president?
I guess not.
“… and tell ’em Big Mitch sent ya!”
Mitch @ #229,
I read the essay you wrote back in January, quoted here. Interesting, how you feel about Poindexter. How do you feel about his buddy Elliot Abrams’ current job, as related here by my friend ex-CIA analyst and Middle East expert, Kathleen Christason?
I printed out the article by Christason, to read when I go to bed. But from what I read, I am not surprised.
Let’s face it, Hamas electoral victory was not a good thing, but that’s what happens thanks to the numerous fuck-ups of King Shit-for-brains. Nor should we be suprised that his venal minions would try to undo the consequences of their stupidity by illegal means. An ex-contra-gate guy is perfect for the job.
N=1,
Hi, I’m here. I read your earlier thread and my heart goes out to you. Prayers too.
I’m still here, but I don’t know for how much longer. N=1, I didn’t read your earlier thread, but it sounds like things could get better. I hope they do soon.
BigMitch @ 231
I appreciate that you’re intending to read the article. Kathleen and her husband Bill were among the first of the growing legion of ex-CIA analysts and operatives who said “Whoa! – WTF!” about the downward spiral. They’re part of the growing community of patriots in and around Santa Fe who are creating what I hope will be a synergistic response to continuing insanity. They relate with the people who started Tikkun, and with the community the Wilsons will be joining there.
May I suggest you visit Counterpunch more often?
Ed*ard Teller @ 230
Hmmmmmmm. Per Kathleen Christason:
Per the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court http://www.un.org/law/icc/statute/99_corr/2.htm
BigMitch @ 109
Hezbollah wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for Israel. The odds of Israel being able to destroy it are so close to zero as to be indistinguishable. If Israel couldn’t destroy it after occupying southern Lebanon, why would anyone think it could destroy it now or last year? (At least by force, anyway.)
Hezbollah is a “terrorist organization” that attacks Israel, but not the US. It hasn’t attacked the US in years and has an explicit policy not to do so. When it did, it was because US warships shelled a Shia village (that’s an act of war).
Hezbollah has the support of 1 million people. It picks up the trash. It runs the schools and the clinics. It gives out, get this, pensions.
It is the government for 1 million Lebanese – more of a government, frankly, than the supposed government.
It isn’t being destroyed and it isn’t going away, and Israel and the US might as well get used to the fact and consider negotiations.
As for Hamas, they won an election fair and square and they did so because Fatah are corrupt as all hell and because things have gotten worse under Fatah, not better. Hamas are also better fighters than Fatah, and if it weren’t for US and Israeli aid, the West Bank would probably have already fallen.
You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.
Israel’s actions helped create Hamas (look into their history) and Hezbollah. If they were to succeed in destroying Hamas (not entirely impossible, though unlikely) I gaurantee the next group to replace them would be a hell of a lot worse.
You grind people’s faces in to the mud long enough; you invade their countries; you settle their land and they get uppity and hard to deal with.
Israel’s learning the limits of force. I doubt they’ll learn them well enough, soon enough, to save Israel as it exists now (a religious state with 1st, 2nd and 3rd class citizens) from being destroyed by demographics. It’s already getting pretty hard to deny it’s an apartheid state, and it ain’t going to get any easier.
Remember Maryam.
Now, how long did Israel occupy southern Lebanon?
Right.
Maybe Israel should negotiate. ‘Cause force sure is working /so/ well for them.
BigMitch @ 231
Per the Wikipedia:
{{{{wigwam}}}}
{{{{Big Mitch}}}}
{{{{RBG}}}} – I think…
Slow down a bit.
First of all, Wigwam, I wanted to congratulate you on that list of things to do to overthrow the government. It was very disturbing — so much so that I was leary of diving in it. But I did, and I am better for it. I no longer have any fucking idea where reality ends and tin-foil hats begin. But it is clear that reality has gone way, way beyond anything that could have been imagined, say, 10 years ago.
Second, w/r/t Israel, try to recall that predictions are very difficult, especially about the future.
per the Conservapedia – “HAMAS – evil, evil, evildoers. Period!”
BigMitch @ 238
We live in “interesting times,” my friend.
Ed*ard Teller @ 239
Even I don’t believe this. But they are evildoers. That’s just not the whole story.
Wigwam, if you don’t mind my asking, how old are you?
Where’s Marion when we need her: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/…..mD.6.Q60lG
BigMitch @ 242
Sixty five.
well, you are a little older than me. I’m 56. And these are the most interesting times, I have lived through. Plenty scary.
BigMitch @ 245
Right. And, as you say, acknowledging reality qualifies one for tinfoil habedashery.
Good night.
BigMitch @ 247
Good night, Mitch.
BigMitch @ 236
Yes, but some things are known, and sensible estimations can be made from them. Remember something the right wing in this country and in Israel do not and will not consider: torture ruins both the tortured and the torturer.
It’s not a mystery to divine from the past sixty years that the Israeli government has intended to make life so miserable for the Palestinians that they would leave voluntarily.
The great threat to Israel, right now, is that Israel will destroy itself from within because of that effort. If we regard the right wing in this country suspiciously for what they might do to our freedoms if they had a free hand to dictate the terms of our daily lives, so should the Israelis, because the aims of each are identical–maintaining power by inculcating in the public a fear of an outside other and promoting a siege mentality.
yellowdog jim @ 187
prick
Wow, http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/072707a.html
well good luck with that
wigwam @ 249
Well, not anything greatly new in this, as I read it. What would have been much more interesting would have been a “psychological assessment from afar” on Cheney, and an analysis of how Cheney and Bush might interact under severe stress. That, I think, would have been more helpful.
I would offer an idea but I’m unwanted here. Sorry for being a pest, had to say that, now I know, you guys talk about things and well I want to chime in but your the cool kids and am a nothing, sorry.
argosfalcon @ 252
Pardon me? What prompted this?
argosfalcon @ 251
see above
argosfalcon @ 254
Umm, yeah, but you asked for that response, which was likely made in jest.
As in: “Well I’m done here, but it would have been nice to have been told scram.”
Someone just accommodated you. :)
montag @ 258
I have to agree with Montag. You are being hyper-sensitive in a very 2-dimensional environment. We don’t hear voice inflections or see grins and winks (usually, unless someone adds an emoticon.)
We’ve all been there. I think Yellowdog’s “heh” was his way of tickling you as he said “scram”.
So I would guess I’m not in the club, thats cool when I was working no one liked the environment inspector. but if your on the west coast ask Dr John Johnson at the natural history museum in Santa Barbara, or Dr Jean Arnold at UCLA about me. I’m not a hack, but hey I just fought for things not wrote about them
Well sorry then.
argosfalcon @ 258
Now, then, what was it you were about to say?
…and if I can continue…
The format here is read, read, read comments and Respond when you see something that grabs you. Depending on when that something was first posted, it could be a long time ago.
So, by the time you chime in, the original poster and others are long gone from that topic, or even the blog…. silence isn’t always the result of someone ignoring you intentionally. Hope this helps. HUGS
Hey, who else is up and here? Montag and I are late-late-late people, usually.
jacqrat @ 261
An’ ain’t that kind of curious. :) I know I’m chronically unemployed, so, what about you? :)
It’s a perfectly acceptable schedule, as long as the real world doesn’t intrude (as it has with my current stint of three months’ worth of jury duty).
It was the analysis of mental states under stress (my hand moves slowly) they seem to brake out in unexpected ways and as they have not responded in predictable patterns. I guess my thoughts were not to look at where they may go, operating under those assumptions.
sorry once again.
argosfalcon @ 263
Well, that’s also a way of saying that stress can cause unpredictable behavior. Which is also helpful to know when the country is led by a couple of sociopathic personalities. (!)
montag @ 268
yes and many of the approaches to dealing with him and classical not novel, and in my mind is the key.
The dawn breaks here, I have run out my time. I hate not having the hours to spend, good morning find peace and love where you can, good bye.
Good morning. Anyone still here?
TexB @ 268
Only virtually, not practically. :)
It’s just us Nighthawks at the Diner.
I’m unable to sleep for some reason. Tired though.
Yeah. here. I got distracted by some new “Xanadu at Bryant Park” videos but I am back. I am also unemployed – disability. Not good sleeper… the night is quiet and I enjoy it.
I am just awake. Not unemployed.
jacqrat @ 271
Well, disability is a better excuse than I have. I’ve managed to piss off all the executives at the only company in town for which I could work. :) Of course, that’s pretty well moot now, since they’ve augured themselves into the ground yet again, and there’s no more jobs to be had there, anyway. (!)
k, i will go back to sleep then
Good Morning all. The AP via way of the AJC (Atlanta Paper) has a new Tillman article about US snipers in the area. Here’s an excerpt. “His recollections of the snipers reflected other testimony in the transcripts, including answers given by Capt. Richard Scott, who conducted the first, immediate investigation:
Q: Are you aware whether or not any U.S. forces snipers were at the scene?
Scott: They were in serial two.
Q: And, and do you know whose GMV (ground mobility vehicle) they were traveling in?
Scott: I don’t think they were in a GMV. I think they were in a cargo Humvee.
Q: Okay. Do you know if the snipers fired any rounds during this incident involving CPL Tillman?
Scott: I do not, no.”
JPL @ 275
W’all, shit, it’s probably just me, but if there was no damned indication of enemy presence, and a guy got his brains blown out by friendly fire, I might’ve just had all magazines collected and replaced to help find out what happened.
But, I wasn’t there. But, someone was who knows exactly what happened, from whom we’ve not yet heard, or heard the truth.
Montag, US snipers are really good at shooting their target. Not good at all. Here’s a link to the entire article, http://www.ajc.com/news/conten…..ab_newstab
JPL @ 277
Not disagreeing at all. What I am saying is that, sniper or not, the odds of random fire putting three slugs in a 2″ dia. pattern in Tillman’s forehead is extremely small–almost infinitesimal. Someone, sniper or no, put those slugs there, and we haven’t heard from that person. They’ve blended into the unit acting as a whole.
Tillman’s uniform and body armor were burned, rather than saved. If he stood up and encountered a barrage of fire that also covered his center mass (as infantry are taught to hit), then, perhaps, a sniper’s shots to the head at the same time could be understood.
But, if his uniform and armor were burned to hide the fact that the only shots to hit him were to the head, above his body armor, that’s another matter, entirely.
But, we still don’t know. The person firing the fatal shots has not yet been identified nor has come forward on his own.
Good morning, pups. Frank Rich is all alone behind the NYT firewall today. (Thank God we’re spared Gail Collins…) He posits that Cheney is on the outs and the new surrogate President is Gen. Petraeus.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
Coffee and tea are ready, and to celebrate the fact that I’ll have almost all day today to do whatever I want to instead of working I’ve got chocolate croissants. I can’t wait — I can trim the basil that’s trying to bloom (again) and hack back the rosemary that’s threatening to take over the world. This will please my office-mates tomorrow — they get the overflow. Have a wonderful day.
Montag, What are the odds that a trained sniper could make that type of mistake, slim I bet. I certainly hope that Congress can learn more about this, but with the claim of executive privilege their job will be difficult.
Hi Everybody,
ESPN has a four part series on the Tillman tragedy.
There are written interviews, recorded interviews, maps, pictures of where this unfolded.
Due diligence.
Marion @282 Huh? The HuffPost is saying that Iraqi Prime Minister Malki wants to fire General Petraeus for arming the Sunni to fight Al Quieda and of course unofficaly his group the Shiites.
The Shiites are the majority people of Iraq. How can we be fighting for Iraqis to have democracy if the majority of people there both Sunni and Shia think its ok to kill us?
How can we fight if the elected representives of a majority of Iraqis would like to fire Petraeus but probably can’t because of American political presure? Remeber the purple fingers they had a fair election so their leaders are legitimate or so Bush told us.
Is Iraq a sovereign country or not can Malaki really ask Petraeus to leave, will he leave if asked?
Bush is in a huge bind if Malaki does ask Petraeus to leave and Bush keeps pushing the September report Petraeus is supposed to make as to wether we stay or go.
Petraeus says it takes years to defeat a rebellion but he and Bush don’t seem to realize that we don’t want to be there for years. Why is Bush putting his hopes on a General the Iraqis want to fire?
Oh wait Bush has no creditabilty so he has no choice.
JPL @ 280
In my best estimation, I don’t think a sniper did it. First of all, snipers are equipped with long-barreled rifles with scopes. They pick a single shot–either to kill the target, or to wound the target to draw out forces aiding the injured. They don’t need three shots to kill the target. It would almost be an admission of failure for a sniper to take three shots to kill a target, and getting off three semi-automatic shots in that placement with an active target is unlikely. Any decent sniper would need–and would probably get–only a single head shot.
Beyond that, I don’t know–not enough information.
What I do know, without any doubt, is that the person who placed those shots in Tillman’s forehead knows that he killed Tillman, knows that he blew out Tillman’s brain by doing so, and we have no idea who that person may be. Is Congress going to find out who that person is? Probably not. They will, eventually, be able to track down the people in command who hid the facts, but, no more than that, I’m afraid, unless the person responsible comes forward.
thingscomeundone @ 285: Mr. Rich merely reports, to the best of anyone’s ability to scrounge around in there, on the current status of Bush’s thoughts. It’s scary country where I wouldn’t want to travel…
The series on Tillman was updated just yesterday and the kid who credits Tillman with saving his life is asked about the “snivel” remark.
Might as well know what HE says, seeing as he has said from the beginning that Tillman saved his life even though there’s no mention of THAT in the false Silver Star write up.
EPU’d
Boston1775 says:
July 28th, 2007 at 7:31 am
As a community, I hope we will do the hard work of fact finding about the Tillman tragedy. It involves many people, and is very complex.
Pat was not the only one killed that day. An Afghani that was guiding them was the initial one killed – up to eight shots to the abdomen.
The nineteen year old kid, O’Neal, who was in a less protected place than Pat and taking heavy fire, credits Tillman with saving his life. In an effort to deflect attention from the foot high rock O’Neal was lying behind, Tillman reached out from his much bigger rock (which was being heavily fired upon) and threw smoke. O’Neal says he was hit. Tillman was hit in the arm, had a hole in his leg and was hit in the forehead.
O’Neal knew he was going to die because “Rangers don’t miss” and when he heard a noise like a faucet and blood pooled up around him, he knew he was dead. The noise was from Pat’s injuries and the blood was Pat’s as well.
O’Neal was so convinced he’d died, he asked his friends if they could see him. He thought he was a ghost.
Another kid, carrying the radio, a computer and twenty pounds of gear was running for his life and shot clear through the knee. He was close enough to identify the shooter. And yet another was shot and was bleeding heavily from the mouth.
It is my hope that we will try to understand the tragic situation in Afghanistan and then work hard to understand the charade and cover up that these soldiers, their families and the country was put through.
Don’t you think the Sunday “Talking Heads” shows would be improved if we could have Mike or Joel and the Bots at the bottom, a la MST3K?
I’d certainly watch [and I don’t now].
Come to think of it, wouldn’t Tony Snow pressers & Bush State of the Union addresses be similarly improved by such an addition? Ditto re the questioning by certain Republican Senators & Congressmen at various hearings.
Hmm, if only there were someone with experience, like perhaps that obtained at the USC Film School, who might know how to put together such a thing . . . .
Morning, pups. If you haven’t seen the NYT editorial this morning, calling for the impeachment of Gonzales if the solicitor general won’t appoint a special prosecutor, check it out.
The editorial contains an astonishing pronouncement, which is either a scoop or a gaffe. I’m rooting for scoop but voting for gaffe, and I suspect the line will disappear from the editorial later today.
Without qualification, or sourcing, the editorial states that Dick Cheney sent Gonzales and another official (ie, Andy Card) to Ashcroft’s bedside in March 2004.
Here’s the exact passage:
Without other sourcing in the paragraph, the passage gives the impression that Comey and Mueller made this assertion about Cheney. Neither did, that I’m aware.
If the editorialists know something the rest of us don’t (including the NYT news department), they should share that with us.
Short of which, my suspicion is that this reference to Cheney will shortly vanish into the mists of redaction.
mauimom, what a great idea! I’ve missed the bots… I wonder who you have in mind?!
Good morning folks. I see we have a lying General on Washington Journal to go with my Coffee. Oh Boy!
The second Tillman hearing is scheduled for August 1st.
Here’s the link to the Tillman/Lynch Hearing of April, 2007.
Boston1775 @ 294
so do you buy ONeal’s story? I’m completely confused about what really happened.
Some Dork in Texas just confessed to attempting to bomb an abortion clinic.
Its a good thing the Presidents Executive Order allowing for the Treasury Dept to sieze property and assets without a trial is limited to anyone hindering the Iraqi government or reconstruction efforts.
Not one word about domestic terroists.
Pat Robertson and the Moral Majority must be thanking their lucky stars unofficaly I bet they are still acting as a front providing money for the Abortion clinic bombers.
Does anyone really think there really is a lot of Americans giving money to Al Quieda?
Probably not but as Bush defines stabilty in Iraq as staying there forever then there is a lot of oppostion. This Executive Order seems unnecesary unless it was aimed at us.
I can’t believe it took me this long to realize this bill isn’t against terroists domestic and foreign. Heck its not even against foreign terroists just ones who oppose the Iraqi government and reconstruction efforts.
Shining Path in Peru, the IRA, FALN, the Klan all the terroists domestic and foreign are safe just so long as they don’t support the oppostion to Iraq’s government.
Is the GOP getting campaign cash from the Terrorists now?
Marion in Savannah @ 287
Sorry Marion you and Rich are good people its just that reporting the facts and Bush’s state of mind well that conflict is what I was trying to point out.
New thread…
Elliott @ 295
O’Neal spoke up on the first debriefing of the entire unit (those fired upon and those who did the firing) and said that Pat Tillman saved his life.
O’Neal was nineteen years old and Pat Tillman had taken him under his wing. O’Neal and Tillman spent a lot of time together and O’Neal’s love for Tillman is expressed in his interviews.
When the firing began, Pat, O’Neal and the Afghani took cover behind some rocks. O’Neal’s was six or seven feet long and only a foot high. O’Neal expected to die. Pat was behind a larger rock and was better protected. (I am satisfied that there is evidence for this.)
The kid said he started praying, expecting to die, and Pat told him that he had an idea. Somehow Pat exposed himself as he threw smoke and began to get shot. (In the ESPN series, Tillman is reported to have shots in the arm, a hole through the leg – as reported by a soldier who saw it – and the shots in the forehead.)
So far, I am satisfied that O’Neal’s description of his experiences are valid. He was put under pressure to change his story and he hasn’t. He was pressured out of the Rangers when he was the only one left who’d taken fire.
He started to break down under the extreme psychological pressure, drink heavily (Jesus, he’s just a kid!), and finally got some psychological help.
His story has apparently stayed the same.
EPU’d
squiddy says:
July 28th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
I’m reading the ESPN story recommended by Boston 1775. (#342)
It answers LOTS of questions we were throwing around last night.
Excellent article. Thanks, Boston.
I can’t belIEVE this whole thing started just to save one (expletive expletive expletive) broken down Hummer.
Princeton is a really right-wing place.
Neo-nazi war criminal, organizer of death squads in Central America, John Negroponte is a “moderate” for this stupid twit?
james @ 180
Ford certainly did GIVE a blanket pardon. But that was NEVER challenged in court. Congress simply went along with it. It was never litigated.
Imagine if I was a President, and issued a secret pardon “for all crimes that occured by certain officials, during my term of office”.
My agents would have, essentially, a “license to kill” throughout my term…and I could keep this “pardon” secret until I left office.
This would be precisely the sort of abuses that are enunciated against King George III by the Continental Congress, and were the sorts of abuses that were of concern to the Framers. I can’t conceive that such was their “intent” in allowing the use of a Presidential pardon. The constant decried the monarchs use of pardon for allowing his own agents to act illegally.
I think that the Courts would certainly judge as Constitutional any law that required a specific listing of charge/convictions that a pardon covered, as well as requiring the pardon to be made public.