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	<title>Comments on: The Obama/Hillary Flap &#8212; Did Obama Win?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/</link>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-855896</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 19:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-855896</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-853694&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;dreamcatcher @ 63&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-853676&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Woodhall Hollow @ 48&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Interesting.   So that would mean that if Hillary won (though I hope that she and Barack cancel each other out), Clark wouldn’t necessarily be expecting a cabinet level appointment?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A recently retired general/admiral can accept any cabinet appointment except SecDef. The SecDef has a huge say in awarding defense contracts, so Congress wanted to build a buffer period between the time a general retires, and when he can become SecDef, obviously because upon retirement, he still has close ties with generals and admirals who want expensive toys. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Who knows whether this really makes any difference?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Interestingly, Dubya appointed a military corporate lobbyist as his Secretary of Defense.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-853694"><em>dreamcatcher @ 63</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-853676"><em>Woodhall Hollow @ 48</em></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Interesting.   So that would mean that if Hillary won (though I hope that she and Barack cancel each other out), Clark wouldn’t necessarily be expecting a cabinet level appointment?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>A recently retired general/admiral can accept any cabinet appointment except SecDef. The SecDef has a huge say in awarding defense contracts, so Congress wanted to build a buffer period between the time a general retires, and when he can become SecDef, obviously because upon retirement, he still has close ties with generals and admirals who want expensive toys. </p>
<p>Who knows whether this really makes any difference?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Interestingly, Dubya appointed a military corporate lobbyist as his Secretary of Defense.</p>
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		<title>By: ed   kriner</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-855704</link>
		<dc:creator>ed   kriner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-855704</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s all show and no go here.  They are the same people.  They just belong to the other wing of the National WarParty.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s all show and no go here.  They are the same people.  They just belong to the other wing of the National WarParty.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Andrich</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-855334</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Andrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-855334</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Barack Obama… &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYJbKZlwM5s&quot;&gt;Copacabana!&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barack Obama… <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYJbKZlwM5s">Copacabana!</a></p>
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		<title>By: JStewrt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854903</link>
		<dc:creator>JStewrt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 04:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854903</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The people knocking Obama might not have read enough written by him as well as about him. He is unique. It seems sad there are people who seem to thrive on posting impudent,disrespectful things about candidates that have sincere motives. I cannot help but believe most of the Democratic candidates fall into the category of meaning well,even though they are politicians.And the campaign is not a zero sum situation.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The people knocking Obama might not have read enough written by him as well as about him. He is unique. It seems sad there are people who seem to thrive on posting impudent,disrespectful things about candidates that have sincere motives. I cannot help but believe most of the Democratic candidates fall into the category of meaning well,even though they are politicians.And the campaign is not a zero sum situation.</p>
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		<title>By: jess</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854454</link>
		<dc:creator>jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 01:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854454</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Obama before the debate :&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.miamiherald.com/421/story/182541.html&quot;&gt;http://www.miamiherald.com/421/story/182541.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Quote: “In our interview, the senator from Illinois had been a bit more cautious. When I asked him whether he would meet with Chávez, he had said, “Under certain conditions, I always believe in talking. Sometimes it’s more important to talk to your enemies than to your friends”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have been saying to friends for some time now, Obama is not doing well and his adviser Axelrod sucks. This could be the fatal blow.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama before the debate :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.miamiherald.com/421/story/182541.html">http://www.miamiherald.com/421/story/182541.html</a></p>
<p>Quote: “In our interview, the senator from Illinois had been a bit more cautious. When I asked him whether he would meet with Chávez, he had said, “Under certain conditions, I always believe in talking. Sometimes it’s more important to talk to your enemies than to your friends”</p>
<p>I have been saying to friends for some time now, Obama is not doing well and his adviser Axelrod sucks. This could be the fatal blow.</p>
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		<title>By: xargaw</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854211</link>
		<dc:creator>xargaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854211</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hillary was looking for any in road to pick a fight. Frankly, regardless of what the slanted MSM is saying, I think Obama’s position was stronger and more reasonable. His point was not lost on me, but Hillary’s attempted smear really repulsed me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hillary was looking for any in road to pick a fight. Frankly, regardless of what the slanted MSM is saying, I think Obama’s position was stronger and more reasonable. His point was not lost on me, but Hillary’s attempted smear really repulsed me.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854199</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854199</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-853729&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Oklahoma kiddo @ 97&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The prediction here is that at the end of the day it will be Hillary/Obama.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think the MSM will anoint Hillary and if Barack wants any chance he has to savage her to differentiate himself from her as much as possible. It will obviously be difficult since they are quite similar on policy positions (except for the Iraq AUMF vote).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-853729"><em>Oklahoma kiddo @ 97</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The prediction here is that at the end of the day it will be Hillary/Obama.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think the MSM will anoint Hillary and if Barack wants any chance he has to savage her to differentiate himself from her as much as possible. It will obviously be difficult since they are quite similar on policy positions (except for the Iraq AUMF vote).</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854197</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854197</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-853978&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Johnny Spectator @ 195&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I think we should sell Iran some nukes and get it over with… &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Israel has more than enough nukes to guarantee it can turn Iran to glass. It’s a case of mutually assured destruction…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Next time one of the leaders of Iran straps on some explosives and carries out suicide mission  let me know because then I might worry about what they’d do with a bomb…  Leaders live a good life, why kill themselves? …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A war with Iran is moronic.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just so. The Iranians are eventually going to get nukes; in fact they may already have one or two stashed away. And yes, war with Iran would be moronic, or else Cheney wouldn’t be pushing for one. Like Rudolf Hess, Cheney will have to reside in a one-person isolated facility during his term of life imprisonment; but unlike Hess loitering away his time in an otherwise empty Spandau prison, Dead Eye Dick’s new home will be a hospital for the criminally insane.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-853978"><em>Johnny Spectator @ 195</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I think we should sell Iran some nukes and get it over with… </p>
<p>Israel has more than enough nukes to guarantee it can turn Iran to glass. It’s a case of mutually assured destruction…</p>
<p>Next time one of the leaders of Iran straps on some explosives and carries out suicide mission  let me know because then I might worry about what they’d do with a bomb…  Leaders live a good life, why kill themselves? …</p>
<p>A war with Iran is moronic.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Just so. The Iranians are eventually going to get nukes; in fact they may already have one or two stashed away. And yes, war with Iran would be moronic, or else Cheney wouldn’t be pushing for one. Like Rudolf Hess, Cheney will have to reside in a one-person isolated facility during his term of life imprisonment; but unlike Hess loitering away his time in an otherwise empty Spandau prison, Dead Eye Dick’s new home will be a hospital for the criminally insane.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854168</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854168</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-853624&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Biodun @ 13&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/washington/politics-usa-politics-democrats.html?_r=1&amp;oref=slogin&quot;&gt;Here Edwards takes the high road&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
Former Sen. John Edwards, in third place in the polls behind Clinton and Obama to become the Democratic nominee in the November 2008 election, inserted himself into the conflict and tried to take the high road.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“If you’re looking for what’s wrong in Washington, why the system is broken, one perfect example is what’s been happening over the last four days. We’ve had two good people, Democratic candidates for president, who’ve spent their time attacking each other instead of attacking the problems facing our country,” Edwards, the party’s 2004 vice presidential candidate, told an Urban League annual conference in St. Louis.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Woo hoo!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-853624"><em>Biodun @ 13</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/washington/politics-usa-politics-democrats.html?_r=1&amp;oref=slogin">Here Edwards takes the high road</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Former Sen. John Edwards, in third place in the polls behind Clinton and Obama to become the Democratic nominee in the November 2008 election, inserted himself into the conflict and tried to take the high road.</p>
<p>“If you’re looking for what’s wrong in Washington, why the system is broken, one perfect example is what’s been happening over the last four days. We’ve had two good people, Democratic candidates for president, who’ve spent their time attacking each other instead of attacking the problems facing our country,” Edwards, the party’s 2004 vice presidential candidate, told an Urban League annual conference in St. Louis.
</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>Woo hoo!</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854165</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/27/the-obamahillary-flap-did-obama-win/#comment-854165</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-853643&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Knut Wicksell @ 25&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hillary’s advisors have been poll-testing and decided to jump on Obama when he left a sliver of an opening.  What is disasteful about this is that it was, really, just a sliver, and a meaningless one at that.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The question about promising to negotiate directly with Dr. Evil within the first year of your administration was a snare in which Obama got caught. It would have been easy enough to quote a simple policy about not making promises during the campaign to take some particular action by a particular date. Obama was talking about the general principle of negotiating without preconditions, which is a good contrast with Cheney’s intransigence.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Furthermore, did Obama mean, “Yes, Fidel can drop by any morning and have lunch with me”? The details of putting a meeting together are considerably more complex, and everyone knows that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for a negotiation about the negotiation needing to take place before the negotiation, that is only one symptom of the Cheney regime’s core problem: they don’t negotiate — hell, they don’t do anything — in good faith. I doubt that Hillary is a proponent of the “fuck ‘em if they can’t take a joke” or the just plain “fuck ‘em” style of negotiating that Rove or Dick can always be counted on to advance.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-853643"><em>Knut Wicksell @ 25</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Hillary’s advisors have been poll-testing and decided to jump on Obama when he left a sliver of an opening.  What is disasteful about this is that it was, really, just a sliver, and a meaningless one at that.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The question about promising to negotiate directly with Dr. Evil within the first year of your administration was a snare in which Obama got caught. It would have been easy enough to quote a simple policy about not making promises during the campaign to take some particular action by a particular date. Obama was talking about the general principle of negotiating without preconditions, which is a good contrast with Cheney’s intransigence.</p>
<p>Furthermore, did Obama mean, “Yes, Fidel can drop by any morning and have lunch with me”? The details of putting a meeting together are considerably more complex, and everyone knows that.</p>
<p>As for a negotiation about the negotiation needing to take place before the negotiation, that is only one symptom of the Cheney regime’s core problem: they don’t negotiate — hell, they don’t do anything — in good faith. I doubt that Hillary is a proponent of the “fuck ‘em if they can’t take a joke” or the just plain “fuck ‘em” style of negotiating that Rove or Dick can always be counted on to advance.</p>
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