Just in case you’ve been too busy this week to keep up with the furor of fauxtrage over in Conservative Woof-Woof Land regarding Pvt. Scott Beauchamp, Brother Gavin Explains it All for You:
1) WingNet accuses soldier/journalist of being an impostor.
2) WingNet proven wrong.
3) WingNet backfills, engages motorized goalposts, attacks with redoubled fury.
3.5) Developing: WingNet completely loses narrative; forms digital lynch mob; redefines success to mean utterly destroying the targeted person by any means available, short of leaving the safety of their heavily-farted computer chairs.
4) Upcoming: WingNet brags about triumphant victory over forces of anti-American calling-them-wrongness which are blatantly in league with the terrorists, enjoys brief period of tumescence, finds new victim.
For a more detailed rundown, see Jon Swift:
But after some clever sleuthing by conservative bloggers, it turns out that Scott Thomas is Private Scott Thomas Beauchamp, who is, in fact, a soldier in Iraq. Although Beauchamp actually outted himself, it was no doubt because conservative bloggers were closing in on his identity, despite the clever way he threw off the keyboard detectives by actually using his real name as a pseudonym, which would have fooled anyone. But even if Beauchamp really does exist and really is a soldier that still doesn’t mean he isn’t lying. As Hugh Hewitt reveals after a thorough investigation of Beauchamp’s blog, Beauchamp is a fan of On the Road, a book I have not actually read, but which, according to Hewitt, “is thinly fictionalized autobiography,” a damning piece of evidence Hewitt puts in boldface type. People who read fiction, especially autobiographical fiction, certainly can’t be trusted to tell the truth.
I guess this is what they mean when they say that the jokes write themselves.



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Love that photo
uno??
that much!!
hmm
missed it by this much
Good one, TRex!
Goodnight all.
Early day with the kids tomorrow.
Museum of Natural History and then the Bones exhibition. Should be fun.
Keeps the fires stoked.
zed?
Rule, Wingnuttia!
Way too late – but I did get f’d
Sleep well James.
If only kitty feet could stop that brand of madness.
The reighties sure know how to support our troops. (/snark)
Okay, gang. Off to bed.
Good night!
Sleep well TRex.
g’nite james
LooHoo did you get the half a white choco treat I set down on your end table in the previous thread? Better grab that before one of these folks grab it.
night to the sleepy heads.
Good investigation on voter caging on NOW, but whatever happened to the Black Box Voting lady? She had piles of evidence.
“People who read fiction, especially autobiographical fiction, certainly can’t be trusted to tell the truth.”
WTF?
g’nite TRex.
finifinito @ 17
go see my reply, nice boy!
TRex, how could you! You left out Hugh Hewitt’s money quote on the Beauchamp affair:
“Michelle Malkin has much, much more”
Alicia @ 9
Hiya Alicia, how’s it goin’, eh ? *g*
TexB @ 22
Awwww shucks…now I’m all ‘garsh’ and shit.
TRex @ 14
Nite, Big Guy!!!
Wait so people that read non- autobiographical fiction can be trusted after reading like say the left behind series?
finifinito @ 17
Got it, thanks. I am being ever-so-polite, how about you?
Ed*ard Teller @ 23
Are you Outside?
argosfalcon @ 27
DING!
I think i may call it a night.
Great visiting with y’all.
BigMitch @ 29
I’m in my mom’s garage, so yes and no.
“My pieces were always intended to provide my discrete view of the war; they were never intended as a reflection of the entire U.S. Military. I wanted Americans to have one soldier’s view of events in Iraq.”
-S.C. Beauchamp
Evidently such interests, however noble, deviate from Malkin’s script.
TexB @ 31
Blissful dreams, Betsy !
argosfalcon @ 27
Well yeah, cuz of course, those are really just messages from the future dont you know? My best friend after 9/11 was already teetering toward becoming a fundie but has gone FULL BORE into fundieland and is now studying to be a minister for a really wacky church. He seriously believes, as do many readers of those books, that those are messages sent by Jesus from the future so that they know what to do when the time comes.
I can’t make this shit up folks.
They really think that.
This post gives us a peek into how they are going to respond to the Tillman scandal.
sheesh! wander off for a few minutes and everyone has come upstairs.
Think it’s time to get reaquainted with my most excellent pillows. Plus, the bed-cats are giving me That Look. Good night, all!
TexB @ 31
Nite nite, thanks for the choco treats!
Don Young taking a skewering on Moyer’s Journal tonight. ON Cocanut Road, and Bridge to Gravinas.
His reports fell outside the political chain of command.
Suzanne @ 36
It won’t fly in AZ ;)
Big Mitch,
I’ve succeeded in partially unhinging my friend Patrick Dougherty at the Anchorage Daily News:
Do yourself a favor . . .
Philip:
If you’re so confident, back it up:
Stop reading the Daily News altogether. Don’t look at the paper. Don’t read anything on the website. Don’t follow any links to any of our stories. And avoid reading any portion of any story or blog post that quotes from the Daily News.
Then follow the corruption story on all those other, better sources of yours. I’m sure your driving curiosity will be fully satisfied.
If you believe what you say, just do it.
Pat Dougherty
Frankly, I hope I end up buying him the burger.
finifinito @ 38
Any time!
Me3 @ 41
Doesn’t mean they aren’t gonna try it.
One would think that the bow-wowsers on the right would be quite enamored of fiction, especially given all the fairy tales they’ve believed in (and told, themselves) over the last twenty-five or thirty years.
Me3 @ 41
I don’t think it’s gonna fly anywhere!!!
finifinito @ 35
Sad but true,ahh the rants I have heard, but like I have heard “theres no patch for stupid or just being misguided”.
Ed*ard Teller @ 32
I’d just like to say what I haven’t said in a while … I wish everyone could spend a few nights at FDL and see how wonderful Americans truly are.
Even the Europeans are aghast at how BushCo has been allowed to run amok … like a tinpot dictator …
Petrocelli @ 24
Hey, hoser, take off, eh? :-D Cooo-loo-coo-coo-coo-loo-coo-coo!
They are uncomfortably trying to ignore the Tillman murder. In fact someone here last week was saying they thought the Tillman case would blow impeachment wide open and I disagreed. I would like to retract that statement in light of new evidence.
The White House covered up a murder of a pro sports icon they used for propaganda purposes, and then lied to his family and the American public about it. Thats a narrative even the most beer soaked, football addled moron can understand “Aint Right”
Maybe they’ll change the name of this upcoming radio station in Maui to KLOL…
Last week, we would have said they would not go after a soldier like they have Scott Beauchamp either.
finifinito @ 50
There’s no explaining three bullet holes in the fore-head! That’s why it was covered up from the get go!!!
finifinito @ 50
Wow – that’s awesome! May I use it?
Alicia @ 49
Got my beer and Back Bacon … if Hockey was on, it’d be a perfect night !!! *g*
I guess the wingnuts need to change their slogan to We Support Our GOP Troops
Ed*ard Teller @ 51
I heard this tonight on KO. Let me guess – there was not a woman involved in the selection of the call letters…
Alicia @ 54
Please, I’m a giver!
CTuttle @ 53
And no evidence of enemy fire anywhere.
finifinito @ 50
Fuckin’ A Right.
pierce aero @ 19
It’s interesting. I discovered “blogs” through Bev Harris’ web site, blackboxvoting.ORG, but she hasn’t seemed to gain much of a following compared to other leading blogs. I often see BradBlog credited with voting issues, and he’s great, but Bev Harris has really been doing the heavy lifting on this issue for a long time. I wonder if it’s because blackboxvoting.org doesn’t really try for any sort of “entertainment value” or typical online marketing strategies? They just get down to the nitty gritty, and get tangible results. They’ve won lawsuits against Diebold, and put the money right back into their initiatives. Really cool place.
If I had a Mars Bar right now, I’d eat it.
Ed*ard Teller @ 51
It is certainly is creating quite the stir here in the Aina! (K-U-N-T) Capiche!
CTuttle @ 53
I almost puked when I heard about this … and I agree with Wesley Clark, this cover- up had to come from the highest office – Rummy and the two Presidents.
Tread very lightly around those call letters, folks. I’m just saying…
Hey, Petrocelli,
I might be visiting your wonderful country the week after next. Thinking of taking the ferry from Anacortes to Victoria. Haven’t been on the Island for years, though we almost ran aground there in 1999 on this trip.
Suzanne @ 57
ding – unless there was some weird payback involved.
Wes Clark is a wise man. I wish he had a real shot at the nomination but I’ll take him as SecDef in a Dodd or Edwards Administration.
Petrocelli @ 55
This from the man who just had a maple donut and neener-neenered about it in the last thread? No whining! Take off, hoser!
FunnyDiva
Suzanne @ 44
I will give you this. The goopers are stupid to the point that suicide is their last resort.
I used to work the Yahoo trenches… That’s the bottom feeding 13% or so who strongly support the likes of Dick Cheney. When you are down there you have two viable options: prison, or suicide. Given this choice, they simply kill themselves.
Suzanne @ 65
Sorry, Ma’am!!!
Ed*ard Teller @ 66
Don’t think about it, ET — do it.
Mrs Peterr and I honeymooned on Vancouver Island . . . (((smiles))) . . . and had a wonderful time.
Loo Hoo. @ 62
Fresh out of Mars Bars but here is a dark chocolate covered caramel – from those wonderful Trader Joe folks. ;~)
Support our pre-programmed robots!
-The Kewl Kidz
Well as much as I try to find snark in Tillmans death (murder), the more I learn, the more I find my boundaries for BS and outrage tested. If it were just one person I might find a particle of compassion, but this mob of criminals exhausts my limited vocabulary of descriptors.
Ed*ard Teller @ 66
Toronto’s loss is Victoria’s gain … hope you come to Toronto … I’ve got a couple of Leffes reserved especially for you !
I used to use this screename on Yahoo in the chat trenches from the late 90s until 2004 or so. What name did you use there? Did you ever spend time in any of the Political User Rooms like Dead Horse Floggers or Curmudgeons Conclave?
Petrocelli @ 55
How about your toque?
When does Waxman have the hearing on Tillman?
finifinito @ 77
Ye gods guys. I still frequent the Religion Chatrooms of Yahell, myself. This has been my handle there since 1998. Religion: 1 regular and longtime snarker in the face of crazy. :D
Peterr @ 72
Good evenin’ Sir … how was your visit to Ottawa ?
Funny how the same dude picked another station named KWTF. Now that one they should keep. Sounds like the kind of station that could carry Finifinito and Meet the Bloggers!
CTuttle @ 71
Change of subject: In 1973, I went from working at KRAB radio in Seattle to KLAM radio in Cordova, Alaska.
TRex, the bravery shown by you and folks like Brother Gavin, who can slog through MM, LGF, and the rest and not come out on the other side of the experience as blithering idiots is truly something to behold.
Not sure I could do it, but I’m glad others do — and that they share the best parts with us. The jokes truly do write themselves.
Loo Hoo. @ 79
And exactly how do the Goopers even pretend to throw a fit during these hearings?
Alicia @ 59
It is no longer disputed that it was friendly fire incident. But was it a fragging incident. IOW — we know he was killed by Americans. But was it an accident or murder?
finifinito @ 68
You may get him as Veep in a Hillary admin.
Loo Hoo. @ 79
Dont know yet I guess but here is this:
In college, I used to work at a station in Wisconsin called WKOW. Quite appropriate.
Petrocelli @ 80
Wonderful. Good conference, lots of catching up with old friends, and a great time in your fair capital.
And if one must have a chain store on every other corner, I’ll take Tim Hortons over Starbucks anyday.
Committee Requests Specific Tillman Documents from the White House
Today Chairman Waxman and Ranking Member Davis sent a letter to the White House requesting specific documents related to the death of U.S. Army Corporal Patrick Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan in 2004.
*********
Didn’t have a date for the hearing. Looks like the letter went out today.
WKRP In Cincinnati
One an accident, tow a tragic accident, three sorry just don’t buy the gun just went off.
BigMitch @ 86
Alicia @ 78
Shhh … that’s what I’m using to hide my Beers !!! *g*
Petrocelli @ 76
The guy in charge of CBC classical programming in Toronto has been after me for over three years to do The Skies are Weeping in Toronto. I’d also love to go over to Thunder Bay and accept Farley Mowat’s invitation to come see him. Hmmm?
finifinito @ 77
Nope… I posted in the headline news discussions under rtqii
I taught people who dropped in from the mainstream… I showed them the truth, and I showed them how the paid GOP political propaganda posters earned their living.
It was no contest, just took a lot of man hours. Not many people here at FDL (there were a few, but not many) could handle the mud fights there… But I made sure I always walked away clean.
I had many complaints filed against me with Yahoo… And they emailed me, and outlined their policy. Their biggest complaint was disclosing propietary company information (ie. the inner workings of the GOP).
In other words… They laughed.
There were a lot of comments on yesterday’s Tillman thread that continued into the night. Many dealt with the “burst” setting on an M16, which will rapid fire 3 rounds with each trigger pull.
bonkers @ 82
Thank you very much for the compliment but I did the radio thing for a while and it left me…meh. I prefer doing the podcasting/live streaming thing with more control of the show’s pace.
BigMitch @ 85
Three bullets within a two inch shot grouping in the forehead can only be construed as murder!
Welcome once again, to CSI: FDL
newtonusr @ 100
I can do forensic audio analysis FWIW. I would love to get my hands on the Nixon Gap tape.
Like whether or not the bulldozer driver who killed Rachel Corrie did so with intent and like the roadside bomb that killed Marla Ruzicka – the woman who was creating a database on the true human Iraqi cost of the war, we will probably never know the truth about Tillman’s death.
Waxman’s committee website lists “Hearing on the Tillman Fratricide: What the Leadership of the Defense Department Knew” on their schedule for 10AM Wednesday Aug 1.
Peterr @ 90
Ottawa is lovely in the Summer … were the Tulips still up ?
Ed*ard Teller @ 101
Will be ever know the name of the shooter?
So any guesses on how many former or active duty personal the smear machine will attack before this is over? Yes another rhetorical question.
finifinito @ 100
18 minutes of Dick swearing @ his shoes. He was pretty loopy by then. :)
CTuttle @ 98
It is known as a “triple tap,” and happens when a shooter erroneously lets off a third round. A “double tap” is what they’re taught to do, but “triple taps” occur randomly among the best trained assassins.
Suzanne @ 97
I saw that, and I did not respond. I read all the posts and it seemed clear to me that nobody had any personal experience firing the modern issue M-16.
I have, and to me it looks like Tilman was executed. The doctors who examined the body would appear to agree with me, they did not say “friendly fire” they said “criminal investigation”.
It takes a clear mind, sound training… and will in order to place this weapon on target and burst 3 rounds to produce a corpse as described after the fact in the medical reports.
CTuttle @ 99
What you say makes sense to me. But I have yet to see a forensic expert definitively state this opinion. And if I did, it would still be hard to believe. However, the newest evidence — the fact that his last words were to a panicked grunt, “Quit sniveling,” is deeply troubling. As Suz reminds us M-16s are capable of three shot bursts. (I don’t remember my 1970’s version having an automatic 3-shot feature.)
Cheney’s Borg implant is getting replaced tomorrow. I wonder how freaked out those doctors are?
one other thing I find interesting about Tillman is that the entire story was concocted in about 24 hours… I’m guessing the admin (looking at Rummy and Rove in particular) knew within a couple hours that Tillman had been killed, and (guessing) knew the circumstances… be very interesting to find out if a PR firm was involved.
‘course, maybe there’s a file of plausible stories that are kept on hand for just such circumstances…
Ed*ard Teller @ 107
I agree, I was shocked that it was three bullets!
finifinito @ 101
fini, i am trying to remember the who but there IS someone here at the Lake who did work on the Nixon tape.
finifinito @ 110
“six drops of the essence of terror
five drops of sinister sauce”
Ed*ard Teller @ 95
OMG, you got an invitation to meet Farley Mowat? He must be 120 years old now … *g* … you must visit him and please accept that CBC invitation … there are a lot of classical music lovers here.
To me it seem like a single shot, or full auto.
Petrocelli @ 103
If they were, I didn’t see them. But lovely is indeed the word for it, especially the weather while I was there. Crisp and cool in the evenings and mornings, and not at all too hot in the middle of the day.
BigMitch @ 86
newtonusr @ 107
HAHA!
“Nixon doesnt need cushioned insoles! Nixon’s feet are fine, its these shoes! They need broken! Nixon needs to get new shoes, Nixon is getting a Plantar’s wart!”
Has this been answered yet…if Tillman really did say something like “stop sniveling,” what was that other soldier freaking out about, since there were no signs of enemy fire. There’s so much inconsistency it’s hard to know which parts of the official “story” are true, if any. That was probably the whole point I suppose…
finifinito @ 111
as KO said, tomorrow President Bush will have 2 hours when he will actually be President Bush…
BigMitch @ 109
During the early 90’s they phased out all the Auto M-16’s and replaced them with the Burst and single shot modes only!
CTuttle and I have both been trained to shoot. I also shot on a team way back. It is nearly impossible to get three rounds in rapid succession closer together from an unsupported firing position than those were, at ten meters. Suzanne would probably agree.
Suzanne @ 122
I am so freaking deprived with no cable TV. On the other hand, I can see KO, Colbert and Stewart on C&L most nights/days after, and I can keep up with my favorite shows via blogs and by regular visits to my sister’s house with the tivo.
On the other hand my productivity level is pretty high right now with no cable TV. I did keep the cable modem and digital phone from the company though.
CTuttle @ 99
CT … what would be the range necessary to put three bullets so close together ?
Suzanne @ 113
It was S.O.S. in MA.
Alicia — friendly fire accidents occur when two units engage each other not realizing that the other is not the enemy. So, naturally, when this occurs, there is no enemy fire in the neighborhood. But the evidence that the shooting occurred at 10 meters, makes the fog of war story harder to swallow.
newtonusr @ 100
Yeah! Dick Cheney created the first episodes when he got drunk, shot his best friend in the face and then stiffed a rational investigation. So, we had to do it for ‘em.
finifinito @ 120
Did you see the DAily Show last night?
Ed*ard Teller @ 124
No experience with military weapons and ammo, ET. Handguns, knifes, blunt instruments, well that is a whole different kettle of fish.
Jesus needs a better ghostwriter
Petrocelli @ 126
Close. The medical report specified the range appeared to be less than 30 yards.
Thanks, Peterr… mind went completely blank trying to remember the who.
CTuttle @ 123
I don’t know anyone who can hold an M-16 at 10 meters in the burst mode to a group that tight. It was not designed to be an “accurate” weapon at any range, though it is useful in urban settings.
Peterr @ 127
That is so awesome! This place never ceases to amaze me with the talent pool it has!
With Maliki ragging on bush to get rid of Petraeus (See: AW.Com) and with the general and the Prime Minister having daily shouting matches because CentCom is arming
Sunni insurgents to (ostensibly) fight against Al Queada, I’m just worried about how this is going to affect the…accuracy…of the big September “surge assessment”.
I imagine this similar discussion in police locker rooms all over the country.
I trained on the M-16s a million years ago and I was slack-jawed at the 3 shots in the forehead… ’specially within a 2″ circumference… other than it being intentional, I can only think the outside possibility is Tillman stood up in front of the guy who was shooting to stop him… but the shooter didn’t stop…
BigMitch @ 130
No actually, today was a busy day.
Ed*ard Teller @ 135
I agree 100%. In order for this to make sense to me, someone was laying in wait 50 feet or less away from him and shot from a resting postition.
I don’t believe anything in the Tillman stuff yet except the autopsy – was he cremated? I don’t believe the firefight report and I don’t believe the “quit sniveling” quote. I do give a little credence to the report that there wasn’t an engagement at the time of his death.
Peterr @ 118
Every spring, the Dutch send us thousands of Tulips, in gratitude of our soldiers who pushed the Nazis out of Holland in WW II … I don’t know if the Tulips bloom so late into Summer, but they are a magnificent sight to behold.
Ed*ard Teller @ 135
So you’re saying what? 5 yards? I’m thinking three shots with a m-16 at 5 yds to the forehead would blow the whole cranium up. BWTFDIK
Ed*ard Teller @ 51
That’s a great idea. And the one in AZ can have KWUT or maybe KRLY (rly? Yes, rly!) ;)
Petrocelli @ 125
It would have to be close range, I personally think it was done while Tillman was on the ground, essentially, a triple tap! If he was erect the three round burst could not be contained within such a tight shot group, the first round would have knocked him sufficiently to not allow the second, or third round to be so closely spaced! A paper target mounted yes, but, an individual erect is a whole ‘nother ball game!
BigMitch @ 128
Thanks, Mitch. I didn’t completely understand.
The docs estimated 3 to the forehead in a 2″ pattern estimated shots fired not more than 10 meters away. IIRC.
finifinito @ 140
His guest was a historian who had a new book on Nixon. Your imagined soloquy @120 was not far from what he was describing as happening.
Ed*ard Teller @ 135
My family members who used the M-16 also say it had to be closer than 10 metres/33 yards for that accuracy.
The guest list for Mr. Waxman’s little get-together:
I especially like the “are invited” part. Henry’s such a gentleman. Who could possibly refuse?
Tanbark @ 137
Isn’t Maliki smart enough to know that Gates is only following Bush/Cheney’s orders and removing him will not change anything?
Peterr @ 150
PUH-lease let this be televised.
CTuttle @ 145
This was my first thought after reading yesterday’s report. The next question then is how did he get on the ground? Now where did I leave that tin foil?
Peterr @ 151
There could be 6 no-shows, too.
finifinito @ 111
Jeez, Fini, I misread that as “Cheney’s Bong implant…”
and just about choked!
CTuttle @ 145
Not with this weapon. Three rounds can be delivered on target before the impulse has a chance to throw the body back.
It’s fast. Very fast. Controlling this weapon with the fire selector switch in this mode takes training and experience.
I cannot image this happened at more than 50 feet, and realistically I think the shooter was resting the weapon and fired from 35 feet or less… An execution.
BigMitch @ 149
Freaky. I hated Nixon growing up and learned everything I could about the man so as to recognize a loser politician ahead of time. His habit of speaking in the third person like that was a defining character trait. I was just riffing basically but thats weird.
Off to bed. G’nite, all!
g’nite peterr
Peterr @ 150
bonkers @ 154
I picked it up – it is now a permanent staple of my wardrobe.
It goes with everything.
BigMitch @ 144
When I get back to Alaska, let’s get some of my wingnut friends who may or may not have milspec M-16s, a half dozen watermelons and go up to Nikegrad and do some 10 to 30 meter tests?
BigMitch @ 86
According to to the dead tree paper that I get; his last words were ” Shut your sniveling mouth you…”. When I was in the 82nd airborne, we had a phrase for guys like him. Mother F**cking Hero. The ones who wanted instead of being forced into being a hero. They were the ones who got you and your buddies killed.
Suzanne @ 148
I couldn’t read more than 20 comments from Pat Tillman’s thread yesterday and it took a lot of meditation to unwind the knot in my stomach.
bonkers @ 154
Once again, I must remind my FDL brothers and sisters of the well documented dangers of using tin foil. Tin foil amplifies the government radio signals, whereas copper mesh is now considered the best protection.
Petrocelli, the entire Tillman incident leaves a foul taste in my mouth along with a sour stomach. Just as most crime scenes did.
Alicia @ 162
Damn. Foiled again.
Me3 @ 157
I accept your conclusion that it occurred at 35 feet or less, ad arguendo. But does it lead to the conclusion of an execution? Why is it inconsistent with the idea that Tillman popped up and was shot by mistake? I recall one version of the story having it that Tillman realized it was a friendly fire fight, and jumped up to yell, “Cease fire!”
Of course, I don’t want to believe that something as horrible as murder happened. But if that is the allegation, I want to investigate it fairly, and leave no wriggle off the hook room. Please accept the questions in that spirit.
finifinito @ 166
I think I’ll go for the Centurion. It has that martial air.
Ed*ard Teller @ 163
YES!!
Alicia @ 170
I’m partial to the normal looking baseball cap.
I don’t see a diving suit for here at the Lake, alas.
This just in:
GOP Candidates Pants-Pissing Scared Of lonelygirl15
Petrocelli @ 150
Ten meters is about eleven yards.
Me3 @ 157
I agree with much of what you say, except, it is a lot slower than you are stating, it is actually one of the slowest ‘Auto’ weapons I’ve ever fired!
BigMitch @ 171
Awesome! When these guys find out how much you love Israel, they’ll be willing to climb Denali barefoot with 20-pound anchors tied around their scrotums for you. Blindfolded. Twice. I engage in paintball with them out there sometimes. Other than being Bushbots, they’re fairly normal. And they know how to shoot.
Ed*ard Teller @ 162
Watermellons are too soft.
The entry wounds into the front of the head look like someone drilled a 1/4 inch hole with a sharp power drill. The round does not loose stability until it is nearly completely thru the head. Tumbling of the round and the shock wave as it penetrates solid material opens up an exit wound about 3-1/2 inches in diameter per round at these ranges… Three closely spaced rounds = three small entry wounds to the front of the head and or face, and it took the back of his head completely out. The shock wave carries virtually all of the softer brain matter out thru the exit wound.
Goopers have already posted all kinds pics, showing suicide bombers, suspected terrorists running checkpoints, etc. who were dropped by shots to the head with the same .223 round.
OT Perhaps-
Here’s some links to some SERIOUS wierd stuff, that in it’s LITTLE things, has credibility.
Much of it is too wierd for me but, much of it is fodder for other blogs and those I DO respect:
http://www.halturnershow.com/P…..icans.html
http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/07/07/23/may.htm (former army captain)
http://www.ymlpr.com/pubarchiv…..e.php?jham 659
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..hief-.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..r-loo.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..r-loo.html (this one’s a doozy,
with Iluminati and secret numbers codes of 1, 3, 9’s)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html (detention camps)
What to wonder . . . what to ponder . . .
It’s all out there . . . we SHOULD have fear of the worst, as it’s all led up to it. THAT, we cannot deny.
PNAC.
Two Elections.
Habeus.
Posse Comitatus.
Executive Privilages.
Blackwater.
The Camps Are There.
Will Recess Be The Moment In History?
You tell me . . . pups.
~~~ModNote: This comment released from filters after 6-link limit exceeded.~~~
Ed*ard Teller @ 176
Dang, you guys up in Alaska sure have some weird ass male bonding rituals.
montag @ 175
Thanks bro, got my feet and yards confused.
finifinito @ 172
Yes – smart and subtle!
Me3 @ 178
How would you suggest such a test be conducted? I’ve never done something like this.
Now I get to see NOW!!! I’ve been waiting anxiously since the Right Coasties posted about it!
Helpless Dancer @ 164
How do you draw that conclusion from that quote, if that quote is even true? I assume that stems from this idea that a Wanna-be Hero would try some stupid Rambo shit and call attention to the unit? If so, I don’t see how Tillman’s “quote” makes him a MFing Hero. Couldn’t he have just been talking to someone next to him that was freaking out?
Plus, you do not get to the NFL without being a team player. My guess is that Tillman would not put his fellow soldiers in danger by being macho. The whole reason he was such a big story is because of his selfless action to put country over personal gain. Doesn’t add up.
Suzanne @ 173
They do sell cloth to make your own, Suzanne!
Hey Alicia, did you just go down to the final Camp Casey in Crawford? Do you know my buddy Robert Rouse?
Ed*ard Teller @ 182
Maybe go to a butcher and get a pig’s head. A lot of forensic tests are conducted on pigs because their skin resembles a human’s.
I can make quilts but don’t think I am anywhere good enough to attempt a bathing suit, Alicia.
Um, can I chime in here re: Tillman? (hi LH, ET, BM, A, CT, Suzanne et al)
No doubt it was FF, the shots could’ve been 10 yards away or even less, there was certainly a cover-up, the lawyers’ congrats were insensitive twits at best and complicit bastards by any other standard. No doubt at all to those.
Three rounds land in his forehead real close together; very suspicious, assuming it wasn’t amidst a firestorm of other bullets.
But murder? I’m still grappling with that point.
If there was some light, Tillman’s an imposing character in silhouette. He’d freak ME out.
If it was dark, all anyone might hear is heavy footsteps approaching.
It’s easy to explain the cover-up rationale when demagogues control the media. But if it was murder, what was the motive?
I’m thinking Afghanistan mountains and Vietnam jungles. Here in electro-world we’re all here switched into the internet and in a technology comfort zone. I also happen to love the Maine woods by nothing but moonlight. But that doesn’t mean everyone does.
They broke down, right? They were exposed, conspicuous and vulnerable. Are we sure we’re not underestimating what tricks the mind can play on itself under hair-trigger stress and sensory-deprivation situations? How much more would it take to get a city-bred soldier to panic and start shooting wildly under these circumstances?
I concede I don’t have complete information about this event. So if someone could make the case for me which adequately bridges the considerable ‘intent’ gap between FF and murder, I’d appreciate it.
CSI-FDL part deux, eh?
Who was the rethug who, after the death of vince foster, took a watermelon out in his backyard and a shotgun to conduct his own tests… name escapes me.
finifinito @ 172
every clod has a silver lining.
BigMitch @ 168
Because in order to deliver this firepower on target to achieve this effect… You have to sight and aim the weapon… And you have to be in complete control.
I am telling you, this cannot happen by accident, this is a deliberate act of will. The only people you can convince that this was an accident that occurred when people where stressed and confused, are people who have not actually shot the modern M-16 on target with the selector in the three round position.
It takes: a clear mind, training, and will
And please don’t worry about my feelings, I deal with a lot of intensity at times, I enjoy it, and I never overreact unless I feel my life is threatened :)
An M-16 at ten or eleven yards woulda blown his head to pieces.
But we dont really have a body or anything to make sure of much of ANYTHING, do we.
It was all burnt, and gone.
I like the .223 thoughts, and he WAS murdered.
That’s just what I believe.
Harumph.
Will we make it thru recess?
squiddy @ 190
best “skeptical of a murder scenario” comment of the night.
CTuttle @ 183
Link? I’m dying to see it, and I have no cable service anymore – they shut it off and I’m in no hurry to get it back. Prefer the Internets.
punaise @ 192
You slay me, man.
Suzanne @ 192
Michelle Malkin?
Suzanne @ 191
Uh, that would be Rep. Dan Burton, from right here in the Land of Indians. Hes gone next year though, the wingnuts are even sick of him and went and got him a moderate GOP primary opponent who looks like he will win.
finifinito @ 186
I did. And I do. He’s been a blog friend of mine for the last couple of years. I met Lobo there, who he is friends with. Robert is amazing.
thanks, fini… not doing so good with names tonight
BigMitch @ 196
yeah, I dropped u
CTuttle @ 175
I agree with you here too, it is a slow auto weapon… But for most people with no weapon experience, it’s very very fast.
And it’s a lot faster than the 32 feet per second per second of gravity… Those three rounds go thru before the solid target jerks out of the line of fire.
People are used to seeing movie shots, where the bullet picks up the perp and he goes flying or drops to the ground… And this impression is not reality.
punaise is running a secret fish narrative, the latest being silver.
Alicia @ 197
Try this one:
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/330/index.html
squiddy @ 190
The incredibly accurate grouping of the 3 entry points would seem to rule out these scenarios at least. No one is questioning the autopsy (haven’t ventured into wingnuttia, so maybe they are…)
BushCheneyCo bribes their friends:
Ed*ard Teller @ 203
luckily, you cod on
The big deal in this is the medical examiners’ report, and the fact that, based on the evidence, they tried to get an investigation and couldn’t get one initiated. The doctors’ names were redacted from the documents Waxman received–somebody does not want these forensic people interviewed, or testifying.
The question is why. If it was a fragging incident, why wouldn’t they just throw the fragger to the wolves? No one would be surprised by a fragging incident, given the way things have been going.
In this matter, as with many others, the cover-up is making it even worse than it is. This is probably nothing more than someone telling Bush that the army’s recruiting poster was wiped away, and Bush said something like, “make him a hero, that’ll take care of it.” Any suspicion of fragging would have gone by the wayside in the attempt to rewrite the story.
Suzanne @ 209
I’m net going to take the bait.
Me3 @ 202
32 feet per second squared, if you please.
Punaise, you got me again.
punaise @ 211
that’s the seine option.
BigMitch @ 212
must you be so per-secondy?
:~)
montag @ 209
You watch – he’ll say “I did it for Jesus…”. Wreck Chimpy’s whole fucking day.
punaise @ 209
Quit floundering around – go ahead and spit it out.
larue @ 195
The back of his head would be gone, but, the front would be intact except for the entry holes! A person at close range or otherwise, to shoot someone in the forehead would most certainly be fully in control, you cannot place three rounds in someone’s forehead without clear intent!
squiddy @ 189
Panic and shooting wildly do not produce the medical examiners results. I am telling you it takes three things to deliver this firepower from this weapon:
Clear mind, training & experience, and will.
This was in no way an accident.
Alicia, be sure to drop by his Left of Centrist blog today (Saturday). He’s doing his 24 hour Blogathon 2007 to raise money for The Alliance For Climate Protection.
It could have been an accident.
It could have been intentional.
They covered it up so we couldn’t find out.
bonkers @ 183
I have no sure way of knowing if the quote is true. It is only what was reported in my morning paper. But the overall impression fits what I call institutional memory. In other words the lore that is passed down through the ranks. To pass it down one has to survive the experience. Why do you think that most medals for heroism are awarded posthumously
finifinito @ 219
I will, and I’ll link to it too. Sometimes he has so much stuff on his site that my browser freezes, but it’s worth checking out anyway.
montag @ 208
Good point. We can speculate as much as we want, and each of us brings his or her own expertise. But the medical examiners’ know what htey are talking about and they thought that a criminal investigation is warranted. And that idea got shit-canned.
Fragging incidents are bad for recruitment. Fragging incidents cut against the “our heroic soldiers who have done everything that we have asked of them” meme. Fragging incidents imply that the soldiers don’t support the war, but the whole effort to support the war is based on “The guys on the ground know the good we are doing, and the lefty media refuses to publicize it.” Fragging = bad.
CTuttle @ 206
Thanks!
Fragging incidents are bad for recruitment. Fragging incidents cut against the “our heroic soldiers who have done everything that we have asked of them” meme. Fragging incidents imply that the soldiers don’t support the war, but the whole effort to support the war is based on “The guys on the ground know the good we are doing, and the lefty media refuses to publicize it.” Fragging = bad.
I think this is one of the reasons why they ran scared and covered it up.
The word fraggin evokes VietNam in many minds also.
Peterr @ 127
How did you find that, Peterr?
Peterr is sleeping now. I bet he used the site search box up on the left hand column.
Hugh Hewitt’s blog put up a post by Patrick Ruffini 30 minutes ago about why the GOP needs to stay the course and go through with the YouTube CNN debates. The post’s comment line appears to already be disabled for one reason or another, but Ruffini’s post links to an interesting group, called the Save the Debate Coalition.
We need to keep on top of this. Christy!
{{{{Suzanne}}}} – later, pups…
g’nite et
I think I’m out of here too. Gnite firepups!
g’nite fini
Suzanne @ 219
You have me repeating myself ;)
Ed*ard Teller @ 228
G’nite ET … hope to see you in Toronto !
Suzanne @ 216
I know you FDL groupies are all chums, so I’d better split because, well, I don’t want to get too Pacific, but he who smelt it, dealt it, know what I’m sea-in?
BigMitch @ 222
Sure, but, in context, no worse than bombing wedding parties, or raping and murdering children and setting fire to their bodies to destroy the evidence… or what went on at Abu Ghraib. The entire war has been a clusterfuck from the word, “go,” and even the potential enlistees they’ve been finding lately could figure that out. *sigh*
There are not many illusions left for recruiters to exploit. I dunno–maybe, you’re right–the only one they may have left is male camaraderie.
Nite, Sleepers!!!
Suzanne @ 220
Why would they cover up an accident? This whole administration is one tragedy of errors after another.
Me3 @ 230
Sometimes, accidents do happen. A weapon is dropped – hell, I have a scar on my nose from where a round was dropped at the police academy firing range, and went off when it struck the ground. Just barely grazed the bridge of my nose in its upward trajectory. A millimeter either direction, a slight change in my head angle, a whole much of variables went into saving me that day.
montag @ 233
Hey, don’t you want to run with the guys who used to play in the NFL? Wouldn’t you like to be like them? And be teated like a hero, too?
BigMitch @ 221
Fragging incidents are bad for recruitment. Fragging incidents cut against the “our heroic soldiers who have done everything that we have asked of them” meme. Fragging incidents imply that the soldiers don’t support the war, but the whole effort to support the war is based on “The guys on the ground know the good we are doing, and the lefty media refuses to publicize it.” Fragging = bad.
In a comment that I posted two memorial days ago,(God has it been that long?)I said that there is an implicit bargain when you raise your right hand and swear. You promise to give your life for your country and in return, you place your trust in your leaders to not use up your life for no reason. When that bargain is broken, that’s when the fragging starts.
night, y’all
tbsa @ 235
They would cover it up because they were scared of the PR hit to their pre-ordained All American Hero Who Gave Up His Multi-million Dollar NFL Salary To Join The Army So He Could Fight The War On Terror campaign.
g’nite Alicia
Alicia @ 241
Nite, Ma’am!
bonkers @ 232
That is true wordsmanship :)
squiddy @ 190
Well, there’s this:
Others hereabouts have suggested that a Xtianist may have had enough of Tillman’s atheism.
These are all theories because we don’t know because our government hid the truth from us.
Helpless Dancer @ 240
Do you swear on the Bible? Constitution? Koran? Nothing?
Suzanne @ 237
A single round could be an accident. You would have to be a gooper to try and spin that three rounds from this particular weapon were placed in a close grouping… And it could have been an accident.
Personally, I have spent too much time in the trenches to lean towards being an apologist for people who routinely commit war crimes.
http://fusioner.proboards60.co…..1141026527
Suzanne @ 242
I hear what you’re saying. It’s just the whole “war on terra” is such a joke. Too bad Joe Six pack still can’t figure that out, or become curious enough to wonder why we haven’t yet caught Osamma Bin Missin.
I’m thinking they put a “hit” on Tillman. I’m guessing Tillman, being a stand up guy, had taken his concerns about the Iraq war up the chain of command. I’m also guessing that they tried to smooth him down and began monitoring his communications home. I don’t imagine they liked what they saw. They didn’t like that he was corresponding with Chomsky one bit. They may have decided to take him out because he was on the verge of going public and Afghanistan was a little backwater where they could easily control the fallout.
TeddySanFran @ 246
I was one of those last night. We have thousands of years of history to teach us what people can do when their religion is threatened or insulted.
bonkers @ 246
If I recall correctly, it is God Almighty.
[edit] I am an Agnostic, but that is what my oath involved.
BigMitch @ 238
I lost all interest in football when Lyle Alzado bragged about breaking someone’s neck, so, I’m not the best person to ask those questions….
Me3 @ 247
My point is that we can not rule anything out because we do not know the truth. Because our government hid it from us. It could have been an accident. It could have been a mistaken identity situation. It could have been an intentional fragging. It could have been an assassination.
We don’t know because our government hid the truth from us.
Helpless Dancer @ 253
And we know Tillman was an atheist and vocal about it. Wonder how that all played out.
Suzanne @ 254
Your maiden name Fitzgerald?
The only information we have to base our theories on is information that we have gotten from our government. The same government who covered it up so we would not learn the facts.
Okay Me3, ET, my mind is open here.
Me3: you make good points. But what was the intent? He bitch-slapped someone for ’sniveling’? Wouldn’t ‘clear mind, training & experience, and will’ prevent this very thing from happening?
Fragging happened a lot in Vietnam, so the concept isn’t implausible at all to me. But while it was a highly stressful situation, the ’sniveling’ jab just seems on the face of it like a petty rationale for a fragging.
Was the soldier who fired ever identified? Do we know anything about the stability of this guy?
newtonusr @ 255
Laughing, no but thank you. If you think about it, it really is the same game plan by the bush co bunch. Hide the truth by covering it up.
Suzanne @ 255
Here’s hoping Waxman can uncover the truth.
G’nite all !
Suzanne @ 257
One more reason to believe that Jefferson knew what he talking about when he said that the government should be afraid of the people, not the other way around….
bonkers @ 254
As to that I have no idea. My guess is that he truly pissed off someone in his unit.
montag @ 254
I didn’t really think that particular recruitment pitch would work on anyone here. And personally, I can’t watch NFL for the very reason that in every game I see some guy ruin his body for life. It is too sickening for me, a snuff-movie-lite.
You can’t get me to even nibble at the “ignorance can equal bliss” arguement.
Just because your government is not feeding you pap on a plate that is truthful, is no excuse for disregarding truth.
g’nite petrocelli
nite petro
G’nite Petrocelli! Keep the faith Waxman will uncover the truth sooner than later.
BigMitch @ 239
And the newly discovered flip side of that coin: Wouldn’t you like them to lie to your family about how you died?
bonkers @ 256
In my twenty years in the Army, religion never played a role, except to get out of some detail on a Sunday! It is a non-factor within a unit! The Air Force may be different, but, in the Army, and your buddies, don’t care one way or the other!
Me3 @ 263
I’m not saying that at all, me3.
Petrocelli @ 261
Nite, Mi Amigo!!!
squiddy @ 258
This is the realm of theory… Intent.
He could have been fragged (a form of execution). He could have been killed under orders… This is what we do not know.
What we do know is that he was killed deliberately. Motive is the subject of criminal investigations, and this has been denied.
I am mere looking at who provided the information and what their relationship is in the overall picture.
A similar scenario would be to question why a source is providing information in order to determine whether or not the information was valid.
Suzanne @ 270
You ARE saying it could be an accident, and your lever is the government.
Spin it back to me if you think I am not getting you straight. What all are you saying then?
Well, I’m bidding ya’ll a fond adieu! Aloha Oe!!!
nite ct
CTuttle @ 270
Being Jewish, I had a good thing going in the Army Reserves. On weekends, I went to synagogue on Saturday, and on Sunday, everyone else went to church. But that was long time ago. I don’t know what role religion plays in the Army now. It is definitely different at the Air Force Academy. There is a big scandal going on about Xianist influence.
Me3 @ 271
No, we know he was killed by 3 rounds of American ammunition fired by an American weapon that was under the control of an American.
.Me3 @ 273
I’m saying we do not know. This is all conjecture, all theories at this point because we do not have enough facts to make a determination of how he died. We know he is dead. There is a lot more we don’t know concerning how and why we died.
We do not know because our government hid that information from us. The same government that is telling us it was friendly fire. The same government that covered it up.
Thanks all here for catching me up on the twists of this case. I’d forgotten about Tillman’s politically negative outspokenness, and correspondence with Chomsky. I’ll gather all this together, try to put it all in context, and wait/hope for more information to flow out from the investigation.
Sorry if this has annoyed you at points, Suzanne. The pursuit of truth and reason’s a macabre exercise sometimes.
I am going to say good night. Before I actually turn in, I think I will check NFL.org and see if there is any talk of this. I’ll report back if I find anything interesting.
squiddy, didn’t annoy me at all.
g’nite mitch.
Suzanne @ 278
Thanks to Waxman for having this on YK travel day! You homebodies will have to liveblog this one for us, so we can see/hear how Rummy handles himself under Henry’s grueling questions.
(Suz, it’s ready if you are. Or not.)
“What is the president trying to hide?”
“What else is the president trying to hide?”
“What is the president trying to hide Now?”
“What is the president trying to hide about Pat Tillman?”
yellowdog jim @ 286
What is the President trying to hide today?
I agree, me3, that there is a lot more to know. All I’m saying is that all possibilities are still possible because of the lack on information, such as the info you cited, medical examiner’s report, etc.
TeddySanFran @ 285
Nothing on NFL.com
Count on Rummy being a no-show. Bet the house on it. And suppose he were to show. If you can’t trust Rummy, who can you trust? Goodness gracious!
G’nite for real.
g’nite all! have a wonderful weekend! see you tomorrow….
And on that note, I’m off. See ya’ll tomorrow night, same bat time, same bat channel.
TSF ygm
Suzanne @ 282
I hope I am up to the task ;)
Suzanne @ 287
I maintain I cannot buy into your distillation… It blinds me.
Tillman could have died from botulism ingested from a defective MRE, correct?
It could have happened this way, because we do not know any better.
Nite nite Suzanne and all you intrepid late late nighters!
Me3, good night to you too and I hope you lighten up a bit cause you sound a bit cranky and I gotta say Suzanne is not just an iconic late nite moderator she is a splendid human being and cherished firepup.
from ESPN.com
Ranger: Shooters could not have been 10 yards from Tillman
This “Sgt. Bryan O’Neal” sounds like a …
… fall guy … ?
… stool pigeon … ?
… accessory … ?
… accomplice …?
… a suspect … ?
(i bet i just broke some rule(s) there.)
newspaperbrat @ 294
Personally, I like her a lot. I never deny I carry a sharp knife however… If you are gonna fight this fascist GOP machine you better have a whole drawer full of them, and they better be like razors.
I will post a warning lable “Danger sharp knife”, although I was brought up knowing that every knife should be considered dangerous, and if you picked it up and it was not sharp, you best spend some time honing it… A dull knife is a greater personal threat.
G’night Suzanne.
Okay Me3, so that we’re not switching terms between ‘alien saucers’ and ‘UFO’s, we should define/quantify the positions in some way.
Shall we say for clarity and intellectual purposes the truth lies upon, but not between, one of these explanations?: (maybe not even that is safe to say yet, I dunno)
1-’friendly fire’ accident, firing wildly in panic, lousy luck 3-round head shot.
2-’friendly fire’ accident, fired precisely at figure in dark which tragically turned out to be Tillman.
3-deliberate ‘frag’ murder, but spur-of-moment; not a larger pre-meditated conspiracy to ‘off’ a critic.
4-deliberate ‘frag’ murder, premeditated, full-blown conspiracy.
What’s your conviction? 3 or 4?
I don’t think his atheism would have been a big issue with Tillman’s brothers in arms. Everybody knows that while Christians may talk about Jesus, their real religion is football! Tillman would have been a god to them. He would have had experience dealing with God-squaders in the NFL, and while he may have razzed them, I don’t suppose he would have been too obnoxious about it. After all football players have their own forms of “fragging.”
marymccurnin @ 20
That can’t be a direct quote. Surely it’s snark, please?
…
“a patient sort of firepup” it should have read.
better: a completely patient firepup.
thx.
(drive by on my way to bed after checking – gasp – other blogs and walking the cutest dog in the world)
I was trained to have an intentionally open mind at all scenes. Coming into any potential crime scene with a preconceived notion of what happened or why can and will come back to bite that investigating officer. For example, assuming it is a gang related shooting based solely on the race of the victim could prevent the investigator from learning that the victim was killed because he was believed to be a child molester. A hanging can be suicide, homicide, an accident or an accidental auto-erotic death.
Remaining open to all possibilities until each is determined by the facts to have merit or can safely and reasonably be discarded is too deeply ingrained in me, me3. Just as the search for the truth is a part of me.
jim, let me check the filters… nope, not seeing anything by you in there. are you missing a comment?
no.
i am missing my brian.
it was there and i didn’t see it.
i tried to edit my inquiry away.
ok, on that note, i’m realy out of here for good. g’nite all.
me too.
i better cash ‘em in if i’m that fried.
sweet dreams Suzanne.
‘night brave pups.
Jim’s missing his Brian?
Maybe Brian’s next to your spell-check. :-)
Okay, me too. G’night all.
Squiddy out.
ha ha ha ha ha ha …
http://www.w3bdevil.com/forums…..ry_sir.jpgsquiddy @ 297
I dunno… At this point there is insufficient evidence to descern.
But I certainly think it is either 3 or 4… And you cannot rule out some combination if you have an imagination.
Suzanne @ 279
Suzanne @ 302
She can dance ;)
There is no scene, no preconceptions. Your initial assumptions are based on training that does not apply to this case.
The facts here point to something very dark… You try to leave wiggle room for something innocent like an “accident”. I am dead on firm, and correct, in thinking, and saying…
This was no accident, despite your training.
Per http://www.politico.com/news/s…../5146.html :
Then don’t go on recess. Presidents have made recess appointments of Supreme Court justices, e.g., per the Wikipedia:
wigwam @ 311
Those targets are too soft to appromimate any body part, especially a head.
The exploding head belief is pure urban legand. You can research this on the internet thru any number of searches… There are photos, veteranian documentation, and forensic documentation at your fingertips that will disprove the exploding head notion.
Sleepless in America, so I’ve been reading. A couple of interesting links: Neocons out-Machiavellied…by our good friends the Saudis.
And NY Methodists to Neocons: Umm… Buzz Off!…and about time, too.
This reminds me of this multimedia history of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders.
http://www.thewarofthewords.net/
The military seem to be more like the original version of the Marine Corps Hymn which is taken from “Geneviève de Brabant” a French(OMG)Opéra Bouffe by Jacques Offenbach. It is the song “Les Deux Gendarmes”. Scroll down in the Comments.
Les Deux Gendarmes
We’re public guardians bold yet wary
And of ourselves we take good care
To risk our precious lives we’re chary
When danger threatens we’re not there
But when we see a helpless woman
Or little boys who do no harm…
|:We run them in, we run them in
We run them in, we run them in
To show them we’re the beaux gendarmes:|
Sometimes our duty’s extramural
Then little butterflies we chase
We like to gambol in things rural
Commune with nature face to face
But when we go back to our duties
Refreshed by Nature’s holy charms…
|:We run them in, we run them in
We run them in, we run them in
To show them we’re the beaux gendarmes:|
When young men like to make a riot
And punch each other’s heads at night
We are disposed to keep it quiet
Provided that they make it right
But if they do not seem to see it
Or give to us our proper alms…
|:We run them in, we run them in
We run them in, we run them in
To show them we’re the beaux gendarmes:|
An audiofile in English (which is slightly different from the text above) can be found here.
http://www.nationalanthems.us/…..1142624493
The same person gives a link to it being sung. Once again scroll down.
http://www.nationalanthems.us/…..857882/1#1
Mornin’ pupsters. Please start posting so I can lurk. Some coffee would be nice, too.
I love the part where Malkin states that she is offended that Beauchamp refers to his critics as “chickenhawks” and proudly states that his critics are those that “serve in Iraq, have been to Iraq…”
She clearly is referring to her journey to Iraq to “prove” that the Iraqi journalist that used a pseudonym to protect his identity after reporting on the massacre/rape by US Marines was a “lie, lie, lie”.
Of course, she was proved wrong there, too. But that little trip (where I doubt she left the “Green Zone” before it was regularly mortared) somehow makes her a “combatant”. Michelle compares herself to the troops now on 15 months tours…”I’m not a Chicken Hawk”!!!
Personally I think it qualifies her as an “enemy combatant” as she is clearly keeping our troops in harms way (even attacking their right to communicate about events on the ground) through her use of propaganda. And she doesn’t even wear any insignia. Works “behind the lines” from the safety of the “Homeland”.
Good morning!
Me3 @ 96
Actually, I believe that I recall your handle. I mainly spent my time on the Science News Comment section of Yahoo! helping a dedicated group there beat down the Creationist Fundies and their ridiculous assertions.
I’d wander over to specific news articles, though. I was an early doubter of the sanity of invading Iraq…principally because I never thought that the US could ever successfully bring together the diverse factions, and that the Rumsfiled doctrine of a “blitzkrieg” type of invasion would utterly fail as combatants would simply evaporate, and attack the rear. I also critiqued the grandiose claims of Saddam supporting al-Qaida and the WMD stuff.
Never doubted that Saddam was “bad” to his own people, but knew the hornets nest that would emerge after the invasion would ultimately be far worse.
Good morning, pups. The NYT has Gail Collins — AGAIN — and Judith Warner. Collins writes about NY Gov. Spitzer with a swipe of the claws at Sen. Clinton, and Judith Warner covers “The Cleavage Conundrum.”
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
Coffee and tea are all ready, and so is the French toast, made with challah, and just a dash of cinnamon. Have a great Saturday.
Good morning, Marion. Good morning egregious, retirin’. A spot of tea sounds lovely.
mornin’ all!
This is a test to see if the Facebook thingy shows up… If it does it’s because Richard Taylor was patient enough to explain it to a doofus.
Congrats, Marion, it worked.
Mornin’ twolf.
It’s still morning?
U.S. Plans New Arms Sales to Gulf Allies
Marion in Savannah @ 324
I joined facebook… but that’s it. Don’t know quite what to do there and haven’t responded to requests to be a friend because, well, I don’t know what to do with facebook friends. Anyone enjoying being part of facebook?
solai, I sort of am. I think the whole point is to get to know people. I message back and forth with a few folks, and I’ve posted some wildlife and scenery photos (photography being a hobby). Feel free to drop by.
GWB baby picture…
I’m pretty slow at figuring it out, solai, but it’s nice to be able to put a face to a name.
twolf1 @ 330
Don’t insult orangutans.
egregious @ 319
Mornin’, egregious,
I’m up early to go fetch Ms. ET, ETette and ET, Jr. from Sea-Tac Airport in a few minutes. Coffee’s on, pups…
“They are uncomfortably trying to ignore the Tillman murder.”—–
No, they are trying to PROVOKE another one.
I was reading some of the TPM Muckraker commenters on the Tillman matter and some were saying Tillman’s “sniveling” remark set one of his squad off. Others suggested Rumsfeld ordered the job to create insta-martyr after they discovered he was prone to quote Noam Chomsky. I laughed thinking it was such a stretch: Rumsfeld ordering a hit! Ha Ha.
Then, reading the thread on Beauchamp and how utterly frenzied it is, I have to wonder about the amount of bile stored in the average Republican. Maybe the Rumsfeld thing isn’t that far off. Opposition is so –so PERSONAL to these pukes.
Oh, twolf1, that deserved a spew alert…!
What do you all make of Schumer’s execrable admission that he was a fool to confirm Roberts & Alito? Does he really think that will scare these 2 ideologues into thinking they may be impeached, and therefore they should pay some attention to precedent in the next term? We all knew what R&A were about, and so did Schumer. His behavior is inexcusable.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0727.html
I can’t buy into the Rumsfeld theory. But, the man is a ruthless. Look how he exposed the name of the AbuGhraib whistle blower. That was a call to action by the troops to hurt that guy. So, while there’s no evidence (that I’ve seen) that Rummy was involved with Tillman being killed, I can understand why the question remains.
dude @ 334
I doubt we’ll ever know the truth on Tillman. But his family deserves as much of it as can be found.
Christy’s up
eCAHNomics @ 336
Did you see the NYT piece the other day? They don’t have to impeach R&A. They can just add members to the Supreme Court. According to the piece, the number of Justices has been changed before and can be again. Gave me real hope.
We know the Tillman truth. Three bullet holes in the forehead, close together, didn’t happen from a distance.
That poor, poor general, complicit by coverup, is losing a star. Ouch, boy, that’s gotta hurt…
One of the most important things we can do is get the story of Tillman’s death as right as we possibly can.
I just finished this ESPN four part story
As a community, I hope we will do the hard work of fact finding about the Tillman tragedy. It involves many people, and is very complex.
Pat was not the only one killed that day. An Afghani that was guiding them was the initial one killed – three shots to the abdomen.
The nineteen year old kid, O’Neal, who was in a less protected place than Pat and taking heavy fire, credits Tillman with saving his life. In an effort to deflect attention from the foot high rock O’Neal was lying behind, Tillman reached out from his much bigger rock (which was being heavily fired upon) and threw smoke. O’Neal says he was hit. Tillman was hit in the arm, had a hole in his leg and was hit in the forehead.
O’Neal knew he was going to die because “Rangers don’t miss” and when he heard a noise like a faucet and blood pooled up around him, he knew he was dead. The noise was from Pat’s injuries and the blood was Pat’s as well.
O’Neal was so convinced he’d died, he asked his friends if they could see him. He thought he was a ghost.
Another kid, carrying the radio, a computer and twenty pounds of gear was running for his life and shot clear through the knee. He was close enough to identify the shooter. And yet another was shot and was bleeding heavily from the mouth.
It is my hope that we will try to understand the tragic situation in Afghanistan and then work hard to understand the charade and cover up that these soldiers, their families and the country was put through.
solai @ 337
Solai, what you say here is right on.
and imho, exactly what happened to Tillman.
Speaking out within the ranks.
no no.
Speaking to someone outside the ranks.
Definite no no.
It’s beyond the “sniveling” remark.
It’s beyond fragging.
“Did you order the Code Red?”
“You’re g*dd*mn right I did!”
correction: the Afghani may have taken eight rounds.
In an extensive interview with O’Neal, he never mentions the snivel remark. He does say that he idolized Pat, has credited him with saving his life (though that story never made it into the Silver Star award), and has a large framed picture of Tillman and one of his jerseys framed and up on the wall.
O’Neal, as one the survivors of friendly fire, experienced being shunned by the Ranger unit because he told the truth and stuck to it. He says he was pressured out of the Rangers. He began drinking heavily and finally, finally got some psychological help. He was suffering from this cover up as are many more.
Good Morning, I slept thinking about the Tillman posts last night. I resolve to write a letter to the editor this weekend to give some of the information we have, the clear cover up, and urge ongoing investigateions etc. Our Senator here, Cornyn, is big dog for “sunshine.” I do not think we have heard anything from him.
In response to question way up, No, I for one do not want to run with the NFL. For years it subtext has been in the police docket. All there way before Vick. More of our misplaced values, alittle like the Gladiators. Just what Ive always thought. ;)
This is an updated story by ESPN’s Mike Fish. This story asks O’Neal about the sniveling remark.
This is the link to the April, 2007 Tillman/Lynch Hearing. The next hearing is August 1st.
Me3 @ 133
I read less than 10 meters (=30 feet).
Me3 @ 141
I can only think that this could occur two ways. Otherwise the recoil would raise the muzzle. One is if the shooter was standing OVER the body with the weapon in a position where the muzzle was essentially almost verticle with the ground. The target would have to be fixed, in a supine position, underneath.
The second would be a weapon in a fixed firing mount at close range.
Neither sounds accidental to me.
Helpless Dancer @ 164
That wasn’t what the quoted comment was. It was more on the order of, “Stop snivelling on the ground, and praying…we’ve got to do something OURSELVES to get out of here alive!”
Note that the Pentagon released this supposed statement AFTER the autopsy report that requested a murder investigation be initiated was leaked. I suspect that there was a very good reason they released this
“chaplains” report so quickly.
And if they were under “friendly fire” that no longer appeared to be unntentional…but deliberate…and you had some fellow cowering and asking for God’s help…I could see this being the precise thing that a commanding officer would say. They had to fight back to save their skins.
Here is a letter from the 1SGT of Beauchamp’s company……..As an Iraq war vet and not partisan either way, I can tell you his story stinks to high heavens. It will be outed that he lied…….Anyway here’s his 1SGT
SFC McElroy,
I’m not in the habit of answering these email’s. It would be far too many. I appreciate all the support from home and I can assure you that not a single word of this was true. We’ve been fighting this fight for quite some time. Numerous soldiers within my unit have served on several deployments and this is my third year as a First Sergeant in this unit. My soldiers conduct is consistently honorable. This soldier has other underlining issues which I’m sure will come out in the course of the investigation. No one at any of the post we live at or frequent, remotely fit the descriptions of any of the persons depicted in this young man’s fairy tale. I can’t and won’t divulge any information regarding this soldier, but I do sincerely appreciate all the support from the people back home. Again, this young man has a vivid imagination and I promise you that this by no means reflects the truth of what is happening here. I’m currently serving with the best America has to offer. I have worked and fought closely with every soldier within my company and they are consummate professionals in an area most people can’t fathom. I’m proud of my soldiers and would gladly give my life for any one of them. Please continue to keep them with you in your prayers and thank God that we have these courageous men willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for their country, Americans, and the people of this struggling nation.
Sincerely,
1SG Hatley
I’m reading the ESPN story recommended by Boston 1775. (#342)
It answers LOTS of questions we were throwing around last night.
Excellent article. Thanks, Boston.
I can’t belIEVE this whole thing started just to save one (expletive expletive expletive) broken down Hummer.