During the Democratic YouTube, many people in the comments suggested that the GOP candidates could never survive this format. That without a reliably neutered journalist who cared too much about access to Lynn Cheney’s fabulous chili to risk putting any of them on the spot, they really wouldn’t be able to function. That looks to be somewhat prophetic. They’re all looking like a bunch of girl’s blouses and are refusing to commit to CNN’s GOP YouTube debate.
I really liked the YouTube format — I found the questions fresh and often fearless, and with it CNN managed to attract the 18-34 year-old audience in record numbers. I have no doubt that Mitt Romney and his penchant for dissembling looked upon the spectacle with horror. Canned hunts and canned audiences are GOP specialties, because the fantasy life of lizard brains can only survive in hermetically sealed environments. Daylight and reason are like wingnut kryptonite (but lo hear them caterwaul about the value of “free speech” when you don’t want their racist, genocidal ranting in your comment section — suddenly they’re all Bobby Seale).
Anyway, the other day I speculated that Fox’s attack on Yearly Kos was in no small part due to jealousy over the fact that they Democrats had, under pressure from the netroots, denied Fox the chance to hurl their propaganda at an under-85 audience when they refused to let them host a Democratic debate. Yet all the Democratic ‘08 hopefuls are showing up at YK. As Josh notes, Hugh Hewitt is already seeding the ground with “CNN’s too liberal” and not to be trusted as an excuse for quaking chickenshittery.
You have to wonder if the Republicans are just a bunch of weenies, or if there was any spiteful Fox arm twisting involved. I suppose the two are not mutually exclusive.
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zed
When the next congressional elections occur, Don Young will have been a member of the House of Representatives for 35 years, representing Alaska, a state where the average age of residents is below 34. He, himself, will be 75.
In 2008, he received 57% of the vote, down somewhat from his previous performances, but hardly anything to make him worry, or even campaign. Diane Benson, his Democratic opponent, ran a good campaign, which some regarded as the first significant challenge to the man who calls himself the “Congressman for all Alaskans.” The activist playwright, actress and poet received roughly 40% of the vote.
Big Mitch feels that she didn’t hit hard enough. The Jack Abramoff/Tom Delay scandal relating to the Northern Mariana Islands, has Don Young’s fingerprints all over it. In 2000, the Senate unanimously passed Sen. Frank Murkowski’s (R-AK) Northern Mariana Islands worker rights reform bill. Basically the bill was intended to address the slave-like working conditions in Saipan, where garment manufacturers produce clothing labeled “Made in America.” Don Young blocked the bill and so it was never considered in the House of Representatives. Given the working conditions there – which included forced abortions for women pressed into prostitution – this could have been a good issue.
Lately, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports that records show that Young’s campaign paid a $25,000 retainer to a law firm because the feds are looking into new truck-hauling rules that Young helped push through in 2005 as part of a major transportation spending bill. Dennis Troha, a Wisconsin businessman who personally benefited from the measure gave the Young $20,000 and he, too, has lawyered up.
All of which would make you think that Young is vulnerable in 2008. But you would be overlooking the fact that he brings home the bacon, and that counts for a lot in Alaska. After all, we are talking about a guy who in 1995, during the controversy relating to the homoerotic art of Robert Mapplethorpe, told an assembly of high school students that he opposed federal funding for any art that portrayed people doing “offensive things.” Pressed for an example by an inquisitive student, Young quickly answered, “Butt-fucking.” It’s pretty hard to defend his choice of words, but he gave it the old college try: He said that his answer would have lacked impact if he had used milder words.
The thing that made me think of Don Young recently is that over on TPM Muckraker they are reporting that 25 senators have demanded that the administration give some answers about GSA chief, Lurita Doan. Seems she has been trying to find a way to use the considerable buying power of the federal government to “help our [Republican] candidates.” In this effort, she employed a PowerPoint presentation which you can see here. (pdf)
Interestingly, said PowerPoint presentation indicates that Don Young may be vulnerable, and more importantly, that he may decline to run. It’s time for a Democrat to start gearing up to run for Congress.
“… and tell ’em Big Mitch sent ya!”
#3?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
chckenshits…
My first hat-tip from Jane Hamsher. My mom’s gonna be SO proud!
chickenshittery ?
Big Mitch:
I got EPU’d. Here is my response to your @153:
I think these notions of “loyalty” are a partly naive. Remember that this “loyalty” took the form of DLC money and slush funds: other FDL people will remember the details and names. Maybe I’m misremembering, in fact.
I find the notion that they all had “personal” relationships and personal loyalties dubious. For example, we’re supposed to believe Obama was the adoring protege of Lieberman and that’s what led him to screw Lamont?
Doesn’t this little coterie just kill you.
bock-bock-bock!
beerfart liberal @ 7
What a wonderful word !
Big Mitch:
You do admirable work, but the thing where you refer to yourself in the third person is redolent of Marshall Wittmann.
Of course they’re weenies.
Ever see one of them do an honest days work?
I spit in their direction and flip them off with my dirty fingernails.
oh so repugs are scared of hearing from ACTUAL regular folks – L M A O !!! the only respond to lobbyists etc…..
I am Bobby Seale!
Bustednuckles @ 13
I always get the impression that the lot of ‘em have Very Soft Hands…
ew.
Can’t let the great unwashed pop their bubbles, can we?
Seen at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway today during NASCAR practice-a shirt that had a picture of Dubya that said, ” Like a Rock…only dumber!” Amen brother, if I’m seeing that at a NASCAR race, it’s over!
The “DC Madam” could probably weigh in on the nature of GOP weenies!
Woodhall Hollow @ 15
Michael Moore is about to be, too.
new one to me. i love it. i’m gonna get alot of mileage outta that word.
I like this from Romney:
I like it. I really do…*g*
beerfart liberal @ 20
Wasn’t “f*ckery” also coined here at the lake?
retirin’ in five @ 22
Amy WinehouseWhat Kind
brendan @ 12
To me, The Moose will always be Bill Skowron or maybe Mike Mussina.
brendan @ 19
They don’t have a THING on him, it is just typical DoJ political theatrics, likely instigated by KKKarl Rove who does not ever stop, even when he is in legal jeopardy. Because you know that the studio which funded his movie had Lawyers check everything out before he went to Cuba.
These people are like meth-addicts. They couldn’t stop this kind of chickenshittery if they wanted to, not to say that they do.
BTW, Jane:
It seems to me you’ve taken your writing to another level in the past few days, if that’s possible.
Putting the GOP candidates up against YouTubers strikes me as a canned hunt. Yes, GOP pols are indeed fans of canned hunts, but they like being behind the guns and not in front of them.
Hey, like Mitt Romney said, everyone needs to “lighten-up” when it comes to comparing Democrats to murderous terrorists, but everyone needs to get serious when it comes to allowing just any old schmoe the honor of asking a politician a question at a debate.
-GSD
retirin’ in five @ 22
I think that one was an unincorporated town in Wisconsin. If I recall, I think there was a bar on the corner.
An example of what I meant in my 26.
The people are coming!
The people are coming!
johnSwifty @ 29
See 23 above
The “base” doesn’t do YouTube. The grassroots does.
And the Republicans could care less about the grassroots.
Peterr @ 27
Like a quail on one of Cheney’s hunting outings. Hmm, better remind them to shoot straight…if that were possible.
johnSwifty @ 29
That second sentence is a bit redundant. Every small, unicorporated town in Wisconsin has a bar on the corner. Sometimes four of them.
raven @ 32
Ah, yes, a winehouse…damn dyslexia!!
Hmm. Two Republican candidates agree to try a 21st Century form of Presidential debate. Three Republicans don’t “believe” in evolution. None of the former group are part of the latter group. Go figure.
brendan @ 8
You make good points. But loyalty is important, and I respect it if it is not misplaced loyalty. Lieberman has gone from good, to bad, to worse. At some point it became misplaced loyalty. As to the facts you bring up, it is for others to judge whether or not those are examples of misplaced loyalty.
I think in the Dems YouTube debate, everybody did pretty well…
I think the repugs are afraid they’ll look “stoopid” by comparison.
mc @ 33
Worth noting that in Arabic, “the base” is translated as Al Qaeda.
Peterr @ 35
Really? ;-}
Frank Probst @ 31
The great un-washed !
these fox “strategists” are really idiots aren’t they.
they didn’t know o’reilley’s rant would help promote kos and the yearly kos?
man that’s rich
what’s great to see is the push back from the democrats too…they are growing thier kulliones
Twain @ 42
The people are revolting.
I still believe Mr. Lieberman should throw his hat into the ring. He could run as an Independent Neocon.
OldCoastie @ 39
That’s going to happen regardless of the forum.
raven @ 44
They certainly are. (Groucho)
Peterr @ 35
And four or five churches on the oposite end of town. Whittier, Alaska – 2nd class incorporated city, pop. 225 – once had five fairly big bars and three little churches (they met in apartments).
Speaking of canned crowds and canned hunts, bet you don’t find too many Dems at a Pay-fishing lake either.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 45
now there’s an interesting idea!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 45
I think he’s hoping for a Unity08 nomination.
raven @ 44
Of course they are
BigMitch @ 47
Ding
Like it or hate it, Monday’s CNN/YouTube Democratic candidates debate may have represented a sea-change in direct citizen participation in the American presidential selection process. Which is why the GOP White House hopefuls appear to want no part of the September 17 YouTube event co-sponsored by the Florida Republican Party. As their empty podiums at the recent NAACP convention attest, like the current Oval Office occupant these Republicans apparently have no stomach for authentic, unscripted questions from the American people.
For the details, see:
“GOP Candidates to Add YouTube Event to NAACP Boycott?”
I think to Rethugs are more afraid of having to respond to spontaneous, wacky humor than they are of any other issue they’d have to deal with.
Reality has a well known liberal bias, therefore You Tube is anti-Republican.
Did anybody else notice that Fredrick of Hollywood’s fundraising is going in the tank?
Peterr @ 35
And why not for heaven’s sake four corners four bars….symetry
Uh oh, here we go again. Nicole Ritchie is going to jail for DUI.
Canned hunts and canned audiences are GOP specialties
You have such a way with words, Jane!
Congress passed the 9/11 bill.
Just imagine what darkblack or someone similar could do with a YouTube question for any of the GOP candidates.
Answering questions from a melting snowman would be the least of Romney’s worries.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
dipper @ 59
And Canned Heat said boogie!
BigMitch @ 56
I think I read somewhere that the repigs are having fits and won’t give him money because he won’t go ahead and toss his hat in the ring officially…
Woodhall Hollow @ 58
Poor CNN. They are just going to be exhausted from trying to cover all the drunks in Hollywood.
After all, they only have 24 hours.
raven @ 53
damn, I was thinking of Mel Brooks in History of the World
What is the 9-11 bill?
Twain @ 64
Actually, more than one or two at a time is really superfluous.
Gooood rip, Jane! :o) Too true.
Knowing which questions not to ask is THE stock in trade of the MSM, these days.
I’d like to see Rudy square “family values” and “homeland security” with whoring around 2 doors down from HIS wife in the Mayor’s house, and with pimping mobbed-up Bernard Kerik for GeheimestadtPolizeiAmt Czar.
dakine01 @ 65
Mel wouldn’t be above a little lifting for a laugh.
The reason that some GOP members have refused to sign on for a youtube/CNN debate is probably the same reason some democratic contenders refused to sign on for a FOX debate.
Also, CNN is selecting out of thousands of questions, which ones to air. This gives editors at CNN absolute control of what kinds of voices and questions will be aired to the GOP.
Usually, the questions in previous debates allow for candidates to answer in a very political, but non-meaningful way. The YouTube debate allowed for questions to be spoken from a more true, personal level, then the questions from any other debate format. Even a townhouse debate, it might be tough for a person to word exactly how they want their question to sound.
So, if the people asking questions in the democrat Youtube/CNN debates were democratic voters, I would wonder what some of the ‘unscripted’ and personal questions that GOP voters will be asking of -their- candidates.
I think this is what scares the GOP contenders more than anything – What exactly will their base ask? I’m pretty sure their base has a lot of questions and concerns about steering their party back to the ‘Right’ and away from the ‘Corruption’ and I think this is why GOP does not want to answer these questions.
dakine01 @ 65
There are enough revolting people to go around… don’t squabble
Woodhall Hollow @ 15
I loved you during the Chicago Seven trial!!!
nomolos @ 57
Four corners, four bars: Check out downtown Missoula, MT. Where I lived for a year, and where college kids and published writers (some well-known) would drink themselves stupid at night, especially on weekends. Charlie’s is one famous one. If you ever find yourself in Missoula, check it out. You might even run into Rick Bass.
james @ 70
I love his BBQ book.
BigMitch @ 66
IIRC this bill incorporates recommendations from the 9/11 commission.
Fuckery with Global Warming
newspaperbrat @ 74
thank you.
james @ 71
Woodhall Hollow or Bobby Seale?
Regarding Fearless Fred; I can’t remember if I posted this here or not, but if I did, it’s worth repeating. :o)
I was eatin’ lunch two days ago, and while I was watching CNN, a crawl went across the bottom of the screen with the news that a woman had been forcibly removed from Thompson’s speech that day, for shouting at him:
“You’re not a real conservative!”
Fred! Welcome to the Base! :o) :o) :o)
GOP= Genuflecting Onanistic Pussies
They can’t stand a fair fight and have even less tolerance to be exposed to the GASP!! people.
The possible Fox influence is interesting but the blowback here for the pussy brigade is that they are dissing the entire country, not just a propaganda outlet
I think it is a political thing betwen CNN and FOX. Because the dems snubbed FOX, the repubs are going to snubb CNN. I would be surprised if the republican candidates are afraid of the YouTube debate because of the questions that might get asked. All the questions they used before were pretty vanilla and easy to answer. Frankly I was disappointed in the lack of anything resembling a hard question. The thing between Hillary and Obama was barely controversial and became so from the media inflating it and CNN’s need to get four days of news mileage out of the debate.
AZ Matt @ 76
god I love this congress…even though I am pissed off impeachment isn’t on the table
*yet*
Biodun @ 74
In Athens we have the Barmuda Triangle.
PHILADELPHIA, July 26 — Guests of President Bush aboard Air Force One generally know that he expects them to behave in a certain way: No showboating or mingling with the on-board press corps and, certainly, no criticizing the commander in chief or his team.
Senator Arlen Specter violated both points of decorum on Thursday. He visited with reporters aboard the presidential airplane before it lifted off for Philadelphia and lambasted the attorney general.
Youtube Question for Mr. Romney:
Would you personally kill Islamo-fascists with white-phosphorous, given the cahnce?
Thanks.
-GSD
Shuster doing a bang up job on hardballs on the Abu perjury problem.
james @ 71
Memorialized here!
Television alert for tonight
David Iglesias will be on the PBS show “NOW” tonight. The theme for the show is voter caging.
PBS – “NOW”
It’s on at 8:30 PM in NYC. The PBS website has a zip code lookup so you can find the airtime in your area.
Bill Moyers’ program follows with “why are we really fighting in Iraq”.
raven @ 75
Birthday present from my ex along with a new grill.
Black Panthers and SDS! I’m starting to feel good.
Kevster @ 79
Oh, they’re just dissing all those angry, crazy people on the Internets. They’re just being responsible and rising above the fray.
At least, that’s what I assume their spinmeisters and the press will be saying shortly.
Shuster puts the narrative together very well.
Biodun @ 79
I don’t kiss and tell!!
raven @ 81
Three bars?
I love it when you tease Rebublicans, Jane
I was looking forward to
A Parkinsons patient asking about stem cells.
A retired military officer asking about the Iraq war.
A scientist asking about evolution.
A minister asking about separation of church and state.
A Katrina survior asking about reconstruction.
Biodun @ 78
What is the difference? We are all Bobby Seale! ;-)
The issue is fearlessness. They don’t have it.
It’s very clarifying to see the campaign from the perspective of this quality.
For example, in the Clinton/Obama foreign policy dust-up, which is the more fearless position?
perris @ 80
I’m willing to wait, as long as impeachment is where we’re headed.
The President has criticized the oversight activities of the Congress, particularly the “political theater” of Gonzales testifying. Specifically, the President pointed out that there is no defense department authorization (funding) bill. Of course, we all remember the all nighter, after which it was learned that there was not enough votes for cloture, and so the bill was set aside.
Here’s my thought/prayer.
Let’s bring up the bill, with the Webb amendment, just before the August recess. If Repubs want to fillabuster, have at it. Keep Congress in session, which at a minimum means no recess appointments. W can’t just say that they should be doing the people’s business because (1) they would otherwise be on recess, and (2) it’s the Republicans doing the fillerbustering.
What’s wrong with this plan?
Jane (nyc) @ 86
Merci beaucoup Jane!
OK, that’s it for me for awhile.
Great post, Jane.
See ya, folks.
FOX is the”You Kids Get Off My Lawn!!”of the teevee. A bunch of humorless nosy busybodies who hate it when people are decent to one another or having fun.
james @ 71
Yeah, except that by the time they started calling it “Chicago Seven” Bobby was long gone.
you’re gonna love this…some threads ago I suggested Bush is not sleeping as well as he used to sleep before congress started looking into his illegal activities
now we find he is indeed “in the doldrums”
that quote is from think progress
good to know he has a pulse, though of course he wasn’t “in the doldrums” when he kept hearing how many people were dying from his make believe war
Oklahoma kiddo @ 81
Begging your pardon! He is quoted as saying from the plane that “Leahy is more interested in helping senators get elected than in getting the information he is seeking from Attorney General.” and otherwise repeated the “political theater” meme.
Cujo359 @ 37
The Pope, who said that there is only “one” Church (yikes!), dispelled any notion of conflict between creationism and evolution. That whole stupid debate is Rove at his worst. The Pennsylvania smack down by a Bushie a couple of years ago should stop those frickin’ yahoos at the Thomas More Center for a time being. Hopefully.
That pix at the top. Imagine, one of those faces could be your next president.
BigMitch @ 97
I like it, particularly since it will require Bush to do something he doesn’t want to do – either allow the bill to pass or lose a chance at a recess appointment to replace Abu.
Unfortunately, it requires Democrats to stay through the summer, including those in the House. IIRC, if the two houses of Cogress can’t agree on when to adjourn, the President gets to decide.
newspaperbrat @ 98
I am starting to really like this conservative re-born Gooper. He posts at My Left Wing, is interviewed by Jason Leopold, and goes on PBS! The guy isn’t afraid of the fringe, that is for sure!
tweety getting all in cannon’s face – uh ohhh he’ll not be invited to next canned kill i’m afraid :-(
Good for Murtha! Need more of this
AZ Matt @ 108
whoa, hold on Nellie! We need to see more of this.
perris @ 102
Did you see that the recent spending bill Bushie has theatened to veto passed in the Senate 88-4. It was reported late last night.
anangryoldbroad @ 103
Mr. George Everett Wilson’s favorite channel He was SO pissed when Dennis glued his TV knob to Democracy Now.
Get Tough @ 103
Not a chance. There’s a relentless power to human stupidity, particularly when it’s fueled by religion. They’ll be back.
PHILADELPHIA, July 26 — Guests of President Bush aboard Air Force One generally know that he expects them to behave in a certain way: No showboating or mingling with the on-board press corps and, certainly, no criticizing the commander in chief or his team.
Doug Mills/The New York Times
Senator Arlen Specter after his trip on the president’s plane.
Senator Arlen Specter violated both points of decorum on Thursday. He visited with reporters aboard the presidential airplane before it lifted off for Philadelphia and lambasted the attorney general.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..ref=slogin
Jane (nyc) @ 89
I received this email from Greg Palast this morning…
I didn’t see any mention at the link of him being on too, though.
???
Guess I’ll just have to watch and see. Looks like a good program anywho.
nomolos @ 93
The Globe, the Georgia Bar and the Roadhouse.
Cujo359 @ 104
Do you think so? I thought each house of congress decides its own recess, schedule etc. And only the senate is needed for confirmation hearings, and so I would think if it is in session, then no recess appointments.
Get Tough @ 110
what will happen when he gets a veto overide?
man I can’t wait to see that
It looks like Bush is rallying to his Broder Bounce moment!
Hip, hip, hooray!
-GSD
hmmmm has tweety grown a pair…..?
Two (unnamed) of the fired USAs coming up on “Hardball”.
juslin @ 119
I am not watching, please elaborate?
Jane (nyc) @ 120
Hopefully one is Iglesias! Graves would be a good one as well.
juslin @ 119
nah, they swell up for a minute or 2, then shrivel back down to their usual size…
Cujo359 @ 113
yeah, wishful thinking, that’s for sure. They’ll just repackage the book, “Bears and Us” instead of Pandas, and find some backwater school district to fight the cause. Their main crux is that they feel they are being persecuted for their beliefs, like during the Roman times. And, it if doesn’t appear obvious by now, the Thomas More dopes also believe that like Rome, the US will become a Christain nation in the end. They are nucking futs, have no sense of history of common decency. We can only hope that the movement dies in Florida with Monoghan
Cummins and Iglesias!
Cummins and Igesias on hardballs.
tweety had reps sheila jackson lee and cannon on talking about abu’s lying to congress perris – now has 2 of fired attys on now
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
Daddy says if you read it in the Times, it must be true. (Yes Virginia …)
interesting hardball today…….
Jane (nyc) @ 125
Please live blog a little for those of us who don’t do cable!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
Oh yeah, Arlen Specter, the rebel
blue e @ 94
Some more:
Why didn’t you get us new radios Rudy?
Why did you have the remains of our fallen scooped up like garbage, Rudy?
As an immigrant I’d like to know why Mr Tancredo can’t stand people like me?
Is waterboarding torture in your view?
Tweety, re: Gonzo: It’s the grown-ups going after him, not the “partisans”…
I think he reads FDL.
BigMitch @ 116
I’m not sure. I’m going from memory here, and I can’t remember where I read that.
I was hoping to elicit a comment from some expert on Congress, but it would seem no one’s paying attention but us.
Jane (nyc) @ 120
Bob Cummins and David Iglegias telling it like it is!
LS @ 137
We’re all partisan grownups here.
newspaperbrat @ 135
Do tell!
BigMitch @ 132
I wasn’t on the plane.
Cummings just dropped a bomb, IMHO
Get Tough @ 107
My boss (a geneticist) was at an international scientific conference recently, and one of the European speakers put up a picture of President Bush and thanked the Americans for electing him. As a result of Bush’s policies, bright young European scientists now have no desire to leave Europe for the United States. He said Bush was one of the best things to ever happen to the study of science in Europe.
cancer_cures says:
The reason that some GOP members have refused to sign on for a youtube/CNN debate is probably the same reason some democratic contenders refused to sign on for a FOX debate.
——————–
Nope. Not even close. Neither CNN nor You Tube is a propagandist for the Democrats. Faux News is in a league of its own.
Damn, Cummins is still a loyal Bushie.
Iglesias got fired because Repubs had a “perception” problem about what he was doing, and the Admin. should just come out and tell what happened.
BigMitch @ 143
well? what did he say?
BigMitch @ 143
Um, does that mean he threw out a critical new piece of information? Or did he just fart on live TV?
Tweety “Do you think ABU is telling the truth”?
Cummins “About everything or anything”?
I’m dyin over here!
From The Hill:Oh, Thank God, Gonzo wasn’t lying but just misunderstood.
Bud Cummings said, “Everyone knows that David Inglisias was fired because there was an uniformed perception on the part of New Mexico Republicants that he wasn’t moving fast enough on some corruption charges vs. Democrats. Everyone knows that. You know that, Chris. I know that. Everyone knows that.”
Tweety: “Do you agree, DAvid Inglesias?
Inglesias: “Yes …. “
LS @ 142
And how would he know this? Perhaps Leahy should call him up to the Senate so that they can finally be enlightened.
AZ Matt @ 150
Comey’s gonna call bullshit, I think.
BigMitch @ 151
oh my!
thanks
Woodhall Hollow @ 149
No shit!!
BigMitch @ 151
confusing – uniformed, uniform or uninformed…?
Stocks continue to slide despite GDP report
I don’t know if anybody noticed, but could a touch of reality be effecting the market?
One of the first things Bushco did was starting cooking the books at the Commerce Dept. Boy that economy sure looks great…
LS @ 142
Cummins appeared terrified to critize Gonzo or Bush and parsed his words carefully. Iglesias was much more realistic and forthcoming.
Boy is Cummins being naive and/or just plain simple. Says that the WH should just ‘fess up to the political nature of the firings…and this would be over.
I think not.
BigMitch said:
Cummings just dropped a bomb, IMHO
—————-
Dude, I’m at work, please elaborate!
Thx
Elliott @ 150
Whew! You guys had me worried for a minute. So, Iglesias got fired for political reasons. And we all know it.
newspaperbrat @ 155
They are still fucking lawyers.
BigMitch @ 38
That only begins to cover it.
The GOP saw the Dem debate and freaked. There is no possible way that they would participate in such a participatory event. They can’t answer these questions. What I believe is the primary issue is that the GOP pulled a ‘no show’ at the NAACP debate demonstrating that the African American vote is unimportant to the GOP. Now, the GOP seem to be up to the same. This time GEN X and Y are the losers. They are the people being silenced if the GOP fail to show at the CNN/YouTube debate. If the GOP are writing off African American voters, and potentially 125 million eligible GEN X and Y votes…just who are they representing?
http://newssophisticate.blogsp…..utube.html
http://newssophisticate.blogsp…..psons.html
AZ Matt @ 150
The significance of this is that the White House, DOJ, and FBI are all comparing notes, and coordinating response.
Shumer, Leahy and Others don’t seem to get it. There was one program, with different parts. “The program the president confirmed” about which there was not disagreement, was the program after the controversial parts were removed. The meeting before the hospital run was about “other intelligence activities” namely the parts that were removed.
Technically true, but misleading, and therefore, not perjury.
Who’s afraid of the Big YouTube, the Big YouTube, the Big YouTube? Who’s afraid of the Big YouTube…tra la la la la….
Me3 @ 154
You bet, it is all he has left domestically. I laugh my ass off when I hear Bushies talk about his domestic “victories” by declaring that the “No Child Left Behind” was successful. That is his legacy domestically, folks. In the Bushies words. It is just mind-boggling.
Scarecrow @ 136
that’s a stretch in my mind
we happen to be centrists…the wing nuts call us “partisan” and try to make believe they are centrist but they are extremem and we are centrist…we do not have blind, prejudiced, or unreasoning allegiance
the term is not used correctly when referring to the majority of liberals or democrats, it is almost always used correctly when reffering to the repukelicans
Ed*ard Teller @ 156
corrected. Transcript is from memory.
cant wait til KO comes on tonight – he’s been on fire this week
“Chickenshittery” is a marvelous word. :o)
Who taught you how to talk, sister? :o)
nlacey @ 166
cute
So the American people like you better when you veto everything.
Jane (nyc) @ 155
you are of course correct jane from new york city
the president might have the authority to hire usa’s but he does not have the authority to impeded or obstruct an investigation
political firings do specifically that
Re: NCLB
Don’t get my sister, a high school principal, started on that program. She’s having trouble right now getting an MD (grad from her school) cleared to teach biology. The woman has come home to care for and coordinate care for her dying father. It’s hard enough to find teachers, especially in the sciences. NCLB’s rules have made it almost impossible in small town, rural America.
Bush sure pulled the wool over Teddy’s eyes with that program.
Did Iglesias say anything interesting?
BigMitch @ 165
Perhaps not perjury but this has to be very damaging among conservatives with respect for the law but doubts about Bush. I mean, how hard is it to say “as you are aware, this program is classified, but I would be happy to explain the situation fully in closed session”. I think Mueller would do that if asked. Gonzales would doubtless continue to send up smoke screens. I think this is going to be a tough August for moderate Republicans to face their constituents.
dont know if tweety reads FDL – but he gets emails from us here on the lake… for sure ;o)
“It was morning, it was evening, the sixth day.”
Take out the trash day.
What will today’s load of shit contain?
(Smooth transition from the Bible to potty mouth, eh?)
It’s getting late in the day, and I haven’t heard anything since some Tillman stuff earlier. I am thinking that they are trying out the “Gonzales was telling the truth, and the Dems are being unfair because they know he can’t answer fully in public…” That’s trash talk, but today it is a trial balloon. Just one man’s guess. Mine.
White House warns Saudis over machinations in Iraq
The Bush administration sent a warning to Saudi Arabia, until this year one of its closest allies, to stop undermining the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saud…..14,00.html
get this from raw story;
nice, however as scarecrow pointed out a long time ago, this administration will either deliberately or ineptly botch any withdrawal
this administration cannot be in charge of any such action, they will sabotage and say “see, we TOLD you not to “cut and run”
Wonder what Dr. Maryam would have to say about:
The Bush administration sent a warning to Saudi Arabia, until this year one of its closest allies, to stop undermining the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki.
Ed*ard Teller @ 6
We’re all Alaskans today, ET. Congratulations!
I’m at the end as usual, but “quaking chickenshittery” made me spew my coffee!
3rd keyboard this month.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 175
I’ll call this bullshit
cheney and therefore the president is controlled by the saudi’s
cheney has been “summoned” by them and dropped everything when that happens
I call this story bullcrap, shiney object
DrenchedOtter @ 177
Very damaging? I would go all the way to devastating. But not the stuff of impeachment and conviction, maybe. On the other hand, these guys (Feingold, Shumer, Leahy) can be very persuasive, and “technical” defenses may be over-come.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 180
Ya gotta love this story. We’re warning the Saudis not to intervene in their next door neighbor when it’s run by a group allied to the Saudi’s adversaries — and the reasons the US has the right to tell the Saudis to mind their own business is because the US has thousands of miles of border with
Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Saudi ArabiaMexico and Canada and therefore has a right to tell others to butt out.Scarecrow @ 187
and surely they will listen to us.
Technically true, but misleading, and therefore, not perjury.-Big Mitch.
So how does that square with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
BigMitch @ 181
It is worth noting that this is not the only lie Gonzo has told, not by a long shot. Just count the times he has said “I can’t recall” and you will have a close approximation. I bet they have more on him…safely tucked away in their back pockets, and it is going to slowly begin to dribble out. And then Tony Snow will collapse from sheer dizziness.
cancer_cures @ 71
Not at all. Fox Noise continues to make racist slurs against Obama, and have spread falsehoods about him. Fox Noise is not real journalism and is just propaganda for the Corporate Rulers of America. Of course, the sissy Republicans are big (cocktail) weenies. So are their grown children who refuse to fight in Iraq.
Bruce Fein on Hardball.
Loo Hoo. @ 189
I was quoting from a Supreme Court case. I think it is a bad law, too.
Liberals Target Fox Advertisers
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..t-bitchez/
It made the MSM guys.
http://www.applebees.com/GuestLanding.aspx
I mentioned earlier, it will take several days before the database for this campaign is up and running. You can get a jump on what is going to be a big wave… Bottom of the page, let Applebees know Bildo is politically incorrect.
Ann Kornblut thinks Gonzales is still there because Bush believes in loyalty.
Fein explains that Gonzales is there because his successor would have to reveal crimes.
And Matthews just lectured Fein that Kornblut is the real journalist. Clueless.
Fein: A successor would uncover crimes!
Home Depot ain’t getting the message
bruce fein on HB – calls for impeachment hearings tweety trying to pin him down….
DrenchedOtter @ 177
The political species known as the “moderate Republican” is extinct and has been for a couple of decades.
Snarlin’ Arlen is considered a “moderate” and grades out at a 35 something on the scale I saw with Chris Shays the next most moderate in congress at a 31. Even the worst DINOs like the Nelsons come in around 49 or 50.
I’m thinking it’s not fear that drives these guys. It’s more likely that they have their political future at stake. To wit:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..15839/1837
“There is a story much bigger behind his recent antics that deserves to be heard in order for effective action to be taken … News Corp has set it sights on [YouTube] to either own or crush. And since we don’t fit their model, News Corp has no financial interest (ownership) nor will they ever, so that means crush…”
I urge you all to read this VERY good diary and then think to yourself, why would any of the GOP candidtes even consider appearing on a YouTube debate.
Think of it as payback for the Dems not appearing on the Fox debate.
Fein: FISA – intercepting your emails and phone calls…
The Bush family and the Saudi royals are joined at the hip. Who the fuck does Rove think he’s fooling?
tweety catching a lil flak from fein… lol
Matthews’ worst feature (among many) is that when he actually gets someone on who knows what they’re talking about, he interrupts them and steps all over their explanations, because he (Matthews) thinks he already knows the answer (and he’s usually wrong). Fein keeps trying to explain to Chris M about FISA — it’s not just the lying, it’s the unlawful spying that we don’t know about — but Chris missed it.
LS @ 191
I have been hoping that this would be a realistic tack. And remember, Fein is a Reaganite.
BigMitch @ 165
Big Mitch,
I woudn’t be afraid to take that perjury case to trial. I dispute that it is “technicaly true” and in the law of perjury, it is not merely the leteral meaning of the words that controls (otherwise every sarcastic utterance under oath could end up being perjury),
IT IS THE INTENET TO MISLEAD that is the most important thing in a perjury case.
Scarecrow @ 204
Dan Abrams, are you hearing this?
BigMitch @ 186
I think it could be enough to do in Gonzales. If enough Republican senators are willing to vote for cloture on a conviction resolution (i.e., about 10), I think Bush would tell Gonzales to resign rather than go through an impeachment investigation. A lot depends, I think, on how the public reacts next month in moderately conservative districts. I’m not convinced yet that they are following the story as closely as we firedoglake news hounds.
scarecrow@201
thats my take on tweety also – just cant say it as well as you
I wonder,think I could go in front of various Senate and House members,lie my ass off,obfuscate and bullshit,and then walk out the door free and clear with a smirk on my face? Or do I have to be one of the cool kids on Capitol Hill before that works?
Did you all see the clip of Tony Snow on Hardball. He was waving his arms, speaking with dramatic flair.
Losing his touch, no? He looked like an ass.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 202
Speaking of which, Rep. King (?), was on Washington Journal this morning. He got a call about why the public has not been able to see the information regarding the financing of the terrorists on 9/11. He gave a really long answer which placed the funding of the terrorists then and now firmly on the Saudi Royals. He said there were 26 financiers, but that it would be embarrassing to release the names….unbelievable.
AZ Matt @ 196
HomeDepot has not been set up and fired upon yet. None of the advertsers have… It will take several days before this campaign is out of the gate ;)
Frank33 @ 186
in addition, youtube is not a propaganda machine for the left, it’s an engine of public input
fox is propaganda pure and simple, having democrats debate on fox is like haveing republcians debate at firedoglake
actually, that’s not even accurate since we aren’t propaganda
fox wanted to “legitimize” themselves by claiming they had the democrats debate on their station
they wanted to own the debate and the clips, they wanted to snip and cut and not let anyone else edit
the comparison obviously fails
And then the other side of the coin is that our government and the Israeli government seem to be joined at the navel. Or is it that nothing is as it seems in the Middle East?
LS @ 201
apparently, the meme about FISA just isn’t resonating… “they are reading your emails, looking at your health records and checking your credit report” – who ever mentioned that earlier I think has it exactly right…
Scarecrow @ 191
Clueless and passive/aggressive – Matthews needs an intervention by a good psychiatric team. Moyers had the grace and wisdom to give Fein full rein on PBS last week, making a cogent case for impeachment. Sometimes I think Matthews simply doesn’t have a clue and/or secretly loves Bush & Cheney.
Chris Matthews wasted Bruce Fein. Insulted him and us.
OldCoastie @ 211
“they are stealing your information”
this is more then a privacy thing, these are criminals and theifs and they are stealing
dakine01 @ 199
That’s often said about elected representatives, but I don’t agree that moderate Republicans are absent among the electorate. I’d say that’s still a bedrock constituency in much of the midwest. It does amaze me that a “peace and prosperity” Republican candidate isn’t running for the presidency, it seems to me he/she would run away with the election.
solai @ 211
Waving his arms and trying to fly back to Fox. It’s too hard in the real world.
Matthews has voted for Bush for President twice. He admitted it.
His pushing the Hillary candidacy was in my view a reflection of his belief that she was the easiest to beat, an idea that enjoys considerable currency here, too.
He will say or do anything for ratings.
Boston1775 @ 218
And how he just let Tony Snow go on and on without being interrupted for almost 10 minutes (Froomkin linked to the webcast).
I think interrupting on news shows has become a national epidemic. I was watching Charlie Rose interview Wesley Clark last night and was shouting at the TV –just shut the fuck up Charlie and let him finish a sentence!
LS @ 212
Pete King is my Congressman. He is famous for having diarhea of the mouth.
AZ Matt @ 197
Some bright reporter needs to ask Home Depot why, if they’re trying to reach their customer base ‘through all mediums available’, they’re not advertising on Air America and liberal/progressive blogs. Do they think only Republicans do house-and-garden stuff?
(Note: I usually go to either Lowe’s or OSH, because they’re closer to home. Lowe’s parking is much easier to deal with than OSH, which tends to crowd the parking to the point where all the spaces seem to be meant for Beetles.)
looseheadprop @ 224
My condolences…on the other hand, he seemed to let a pretty big cat out of the bag.
OldCoastie @ 216
This is the revised version of Toal information awareness I was mentioning the other day.
That is different than the TSP issue. They are realted but the TIA was an FBI program and the TSP was an NSA program.
The TSP program is the thing the whistleblower in San Fancisco was talking about, where they built ha room right in the phone company?
The TSP issue relates to what they did with that data coming in and how the computer program worked.
After the dust up with recertification SUPPOSEDLY they chnaged to program to stop the warehousing of the disgarded data and olny kept the data caught in the filters.
What I have never been able to find out is a) if they really did change the programming, or
b) if they ever went and purged the previously warehoused datat or is that still there.
Also, what I do not know is whether the data caught in the filters is being cross checked against the FBI program data.
I believe that the NSA and FBI databases where seperate dat bases, but dont know if there was info sharing or any crossreferencing capability in the system.
Come on up, the water’s fine at the new thread on the lake.
see, lhp? I read here every day and still can’t keep it all straight!
what a mess!
Jane (nyc) @ 89
Television alert for tonight
David Iglesias will be on the PBS show “NOW” tonight. The theme for the show is voter caging.
PBS – “NOW”
It’s on at 8:30 PM in NYC. The PBS website has a zip code lookup so you can find the airtime in your area.
Bill Moyers’ program follows with “why are we really fighting in Iraq”.
Moyers doesn’t come on here in Indianapolis until 2:00 A.M. Same thing happened last time when he had Bruce Fein on – if it wasn’t for a DVR, I’d never see Moyers.
You see the FBI program (at least to the extent it did not violate HIPPA–that’s medical privacy) would merely let the FBI know as much about you as your mortgage lender or private eye could find out from commercial databases.
The intrusion comes when the FBI aggregates that info and crossrefences it in to one big data base.
This is very different than the TSP program which involves listening to your phone calls and reading your email.
For international activity, this is aboslutely regulated by FISA and requires individualwarrents. For domestic investigations, you need a regular Title 3 wiretap warrant.
Either way you need a warrant if the wirecommunication is in any way coming from or going to a person in the US.
This is a flagerant violation of FISA and Title 3. And any prosecutions or subsequent warrant applications made based upon information obtained this way will all be “fruit of the poisonous tree”
THAT is why they are all shitting a brick!
hmm, lhp – ya think they are worried about going to jail?
someone earlier thought Abu might step down during the August recess and Fielding would step in…
I’m thinking Fiedling knows better than to put himself in that situation.
lhp
That certainly explains why they’re desperately trying to keep it secret. They can’t admit that their terrorist cases are built on illegally-obtained information, when they aren’t using entrapment instead. (I wonder how many other cases are using illegal information.)
Where’s the ABA when you want them?
P J Evans @ 225
Actually, I think this is a great idea. I’ve signed on to ‘attack Fox’ but haven’t done any attacking yet. But after reading your post, I think I’ll suggest that they spend an equal amount of their advertising dollars on the liberal shows/websites. In this way, I won’t feel conflicted about promoting censorship. Had an uneasy feeling about that. But watching to see if they advertise on AirAmerica etc., well that’s ok with me.
OldCoastie @ 232
I actually have genuine concerns about recess appointments
What happenned to the “no recess” strategy?
I recall Pogo having a line about the peasants being revolting in one of the “Simple J. Malarkey” strips (Kelly’s take on Sen. Joe McCarthy) back in the 50s. Groucho may have pre-dated that, though.
P J Evans @ 233
Actually, the Federal Bar Council did a very well attended program on this. Much of this onformation came out, but it was delivered in such a deadpan voice that it seemed to go right over the heads of many of those present (including the head of the civil liberties union)
Keep attacking Edwards, Tucker. You only make me like Edwards more.
Get Tough @ 107
Catholics generally teach no conflict between creationism and evolution.
Fundamentalist protestants do feel there is a conflict.
One of the key differences is the basis for “final authority.” The pope is the final authority on what the Bible is trying to say. He is allowed to say which parts are literal and which parts are metaphorical.
However, fundamentalist protestants view the literal word of the Bible as final authority. There are no metaphorical pieces unless the Bible indicates it is a metaphor. And some are very serious about this and will try to trace back to older manuscripts in other languages to avoid misinterpretations.
Interestingly, Mormons are pretty similar to Catholics in this way. They believe in modern authority to interpret the Bible. And as such, Mormon’s generally hold that creation described in Genesis is a metaphor. There is a split among mormons on this issue and unlike catholics there hasn’t been a firm statement on evolution. Both Mitt and Guilani are pandering to the protestant right moreso than expressing tenets of their own religion.
recess appts? me too… writing my congress critters daily with “no recess for you!” messages…
I’m thinking that Reid introducing some bill the pugs want to filibuster 5 minutes before the break might be an interesting and entertaining tactic.
Tucker thinks it’s so funny that the rich and powerful interests control media. He laughs hysterically about it.
Again, I watch Tucker over here so you don’t have to …
Now this is surprising.
The Homeland Security appropriations bill that passed the Senate 89-4 last night includes a provision that bars DHS from awarding major contracts to companies with unpaid taxes.
How on earth did that not get filibustered?
Where the heck is Grover Norquist when the CFOs of Haliburton and Blackwater need him?
jello5929 @ 240
Very interesting, and very informative. Thank you.
I noticed that Matthews gave Fein only one chance to speak during the entire two segments and then tried to talk over him the whole time. He definitely tried to play “gotcha” with Fein and proved he was way out of his league. Poor Chris needs to go back to an area with which he is more familiar–like Bush’s codpiece.
Big Mitch @ 100. Nuthin’ rong w/ that ifdea. I don’t think. I think it’s good. (although maybe not that bill), But stayin’ in seesion-because of a Grand Obstructionist filibuster is a good idea.
Frank Probst @ 153– I was wondering when we’re gonna hear from Comey.
Democrats boycott FOX
Republicans boycott CNN
Sounds fair to me…
Girl’s blouses? I love it!
you got to wonder why the gop is so fearful of technology, especially that as innocuous as youtube. as i said on skippy, repubbblicans afraid of cats on pianos.
FAILING GRADES ACROSS THE BOARD for electronic voting machines in (SecState Bowen-ordered) University of California-run technical tests.
Letter campaign to bring CRIMINAL lawsuits against owners of these companies by new CA Attorney General Jerry Brown in 5, 4, 3, 2, ….
http://www.sos.ca.gov/election…..erview.pdf
Reply
[full report at:
The YouTube debate format is being declared “dumber and dumber, ridiculous, and an invitation to silliness” as editorialized by Kathleen Parker’s latest article. I suspect this is just the first of the Republican YouTube style debate attacks. The GOPers just don’t get it. Parker calling Jackie Broyles (Travis Harmon) and Dunlap (Johathan Shockley) of Red State Update a couple of Gomers demonstrates she, and I am sure the rest of the RNC is so vested in their intellectual and financial elitism they can not see that their beloved gold chain is being pulled by a couple of comedians in character.
“They’r all looking like a bunch of girl’s blouses” Hmmm
Woodhall Hollow @ 15
I wish Bobby Seale would send in a question.
http://www.bobbyseale.com/
Jane, Agree with upthread comments..girl you can write. Also..repubs. can’t do you tube ..afraid of humor. The only really funny repub I know is Bush Jr. Sometimes on purpose..lots of times not.