Based upon the Rockefeller letter, I think the Gang of 8 knew what it was. ANd the freakin’ rubber stamped it.

I sometimes wonder if Pelosi’s reluctance is not tied to the hit her own reputation will take if the American people ever find out what they agreed to.

Pelosi denied supporting it.

Jane Harmon (sp?) hasn’t.

Nancy takes Jane’s head of Intelligence Committee position away.

I’m not a math major, but it looks fairly simple.

I think this letter from Harmon indicates that she WASN’T Briefed…and that Bush tried to argue that it was a “covert action” rather than intelligence gathering.

http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;1426820

Fern @ 129

Can people be pardoned pre-emptively? Because by the time a lot of this gets to court (if indeed it does) Bush will no longer be in a position to pardon anyone.

yes, they can be pardoned in advance of any trial and for everything. If my argument about impeachment and pardons holds I don’t think that matters. Which raises and interesting thought. Can someone be impeached retroactively. Probably too hard to grok but it would be fun to impeach Scooter and the claim his pardon was invalid.

Yes, since impeachment can preempt future appointments and ban the receiving of any positions of “honor, trust and profit under the United States”.

And it has happened…Secretary of War Wm. Bleknap was impeached for selling government positions…and resigned to evade the process. Congress went right ahead with the trial, even voting that it DID have jurisdication. But Belknap’s resignation swayed JUST ENOUGH of the Senators that he barely evaded conviction.

In the case of Bush, who holds continuing powers after he leaves office…powers that would block future investigation and access to his records…impeachment would carry much more import. It would prevent him from obstructing justice, and the necesssary work of Congress to fix the system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_W._Belknap

I mean, the righters on the court will be just like a bunch of hard-core mouthbreathers; I think they’ll turn their “judicial” sense inside out rather than do anything that will start to define an ending to our part in this bloody soap opera.
Using some warped “executive priviledge” ruling, they will have the votes to try to protect bush until he can bail, and leave the dems holding the flaming bag of shit.

BUT! Not so the congressional ‘pubs. Those fuckers don’t have “tenure”, and an ASS of them are going to have to find honest work if george bush and Dick Cheyney are still sitting there like bloody-handed buddhas in 2008, for the democrats to point to and say:

“There they are folks. The Lord Protectors who ginned all this up; the pride of the Grand Old Party, and don’t forget it, when you go to vote.” :o)

They won’t. :o)

In other news, 5 more of our troops died today, and another hundred-odd Iraqis, in the bombings there. The Sunni parliamentarians are bailing (again) and we’re 1 day closer to that by-the-end-of-the-year referendum on Kirkuk, for which the Kurds can have the ranch in Crawford, and the twins, for maid duty, if they’ll just postpone it indefinitely.

I bet they pass. It was THE reason they signed on for the “greater Iraq” bullshit, and it’s the cornerstone of their plan for independence.

And once that vote happens (and it will almost certainly go their way) george bush’s own personal ‘nad vise is going to get some HARRRD cranks. :o)

Quoting Mark Twain’s injunction, “The truth is very precious; use it sparingly,” Ervin said of Nixon: “He used it sparingly.”

As does this current administration. Clearly. This is just so wearying.

Where’s the Democratic Party’s John Ervin, these days? When will someone in that party just simply put their ass on the line and go after these lying SOBs and forget what personal price s/he has to pay? Forget that maybe you won’t get elected next time round, when is somebody gonna ever put country ahead of personal ambitions, on either side of the aisle. Whatever happens, s/he’d still be alive. Your soldiers are doing just that every day, putting their bodies on the line. They don’t know if they’ll live or die through this war — and now you have elected reps (mostly Republicans) covering their asses, giving Gonzo breaks, giving him the benefit of the doubt. I read all this stuff about Gonzo — and the other liars, all the waffeling back and forth … there are millions of folks outside of the US who look to your country as a guiding light – and we’re getting lost, frustrated and gobsmacked angry about what all is happening down your way. I actually believed the Democratic Party had a spine at one time — where’s it gone? Where’s Sam Ervin or his ’second’? He’d take that GWB f***er to the Supremes if had to, and he’d friggin’ get rid of him. Fast. And Gonzo too! And Americans would cheer if that happened! As would the rest of us outside your borders.

Sending y’all my prayers ….

Jonathan @ 350

Just trying to be realistic.

Public servants aren’t perfect, and we are very naive if we think they are. There are however, varying degrees of competence and values. The current administration represents one end, the anti-public servant, people who only use government to help themselves. Ms. Pelosi, with all her faults, is in government primarily to help others.

Like getting her son a job with admin-connected thieves???

It’s getting thick. Maybe something will happen. Definitely worth a beer-thirty. I’m skipping my Pilates tonight — always torture anyway — for a happy hour over at our local wine bar. Hoping against hope.

Now for something completely different, but possibly relevant.

I read a story in my newspaper this morning about a Nova Scotia farmer who is looking for his bees, 40,000 of them. Apparently the worker bees got the feeling that the queen bee wasn’t giving them enough jelly or whatever it is that turns them on, and so they changed her diet so she would give birth to some other potential queens. Some princesses were hatched, a usurper emerged, killed off all the potential usurpers and caused a civil war in the hive. Half the hive went off with the old Queen, hence the lost bees. Wondering if this isn’t the start of a metaphor for the present administration. We have seen some bees leaving the ruche, lately.

Pardon me, but it wouldn’t be hard to find an old queen in the GOP power structure.

And BTW, I received a series of phone messages from someone speaking a foreign language. It led me to think (not in my case but just led me to think) that they could set you up just like that. Shortly after, coincidentally if you will, I was visited by an FBI agent presumably doing a background check on a former neighbor. That particular neighbor would have no chance at a real job with the FBI.

emptywheel @ 65
snip…

Plus, both Abu G and Scooter are protecting Dick and Bush. Better to have a loyal soldier go down and get pardoned than lose your general and his puppet.

Which is why he needs to be impeached and not just indicted. If my theory is correct, if he’s impeached convicted and then tried and convicted in court he can’t be pardoned.

I read that portion about the bar of impeachment and I don’t think it prevents him from being tried after impeachment. I think it prevents the president from keeping someone from being impeached, if I’m reading it correctly in the debates.

Remember Ford pardoned Nixon for crimes he might have committed so that there would be no subsequent court proceedings after Tricky left Washington. That presumes that there would be grounds for criminal action even after impeachment.

IANAL so I could be wrong but I’ve taken con law courses for advanced polisci degrees and the way this reads in context looks like just precluding pardons for impeachment itself.