mui @ 143

. . . . We have no accountability from contractors. Millions down the drain.

Um, BILLIONS!!! I believe. And you are SPOT ON with the rest . . . ;-)

I corrected myself later. I don’t want to be accused of overstating I guess ;-)

things come undone @ 163

So…your against government sponsered healthcare but pro government sponsered Air Conditioning?
Hmm Heck I can support that postion Chicago under mayor Daley in 1995 had 600 heat related deaths in 5 days Air Conditioning should be available for everyone!
The Bush Government is helping cause Global Warming the least they can do is give us free Air Conditioning! But having survied that heatwave I assume the French like the Chicagoites were not used to heat waves and didn’t know what to do.
-30 windchill winters, tornado were good but heat we were not prepared for that heat. Plus the power failed alot due to everybody who had AC turning it to the Max. I think the French had some power failures too and compared to us they got tons of nuclear plants!

The problem with energy (power failure) is just a symptom; I don’t want to get into how Government has screwed up the Nuclear Power industry with over-regulation once again caused by the Trial Lawyers’ Lobby. But the RIGHT to life is that the government cannot deprive you of that without due process; it is not a promise of cradle-to-grave care. THAT is a prescription for totalitarianism. A government that will take care of you your entire life will tell you how to live it. THAT is un-American and very European/Russian/Chinese.

My point was Chicago and France both had power generation problems the French with their Nuclear Plants (which I Oppose) can generate a lot more power than we could and they still couldn’t handle the demand for power. Now if the Government causes the global warming that leads to heat deaths then they are responsible for paying my AC bill (once I get AC again). Is it telling people how to live by providing healthcare?

Now here is an issue where I’d really like to see an all-night debate scheduled. I want to hear one Republican after another step up and explain why they are blocking health care to kids.

I’d schedule an all-nighter on every one of these things — the GOP doesn’t want and up-and-down votes, fine. Make ‘em explain why on bill after bill after bill.

And then make sure the Democrats explain the GOP’s obstructionist tactics to the main stream press …. repeat as needed.

Its amusing to me read the BS your spouting. I would love to know what you were saying for the last 6 years, when the Dummycrats were pulling the same shenanigans. So quit whining you baby

. . . . We have no accountability from contractors. Millions down the drain.

Um, BILLIONS!!! I believe. And you are SPOT ON with the rest . . . ;-)

perris @ 43

this is corporate propaganda

private industry is least efficient when it provides a neccessary or mandated service, they price according to need [Mod:snip]

so, no libery lee, you have been hypnotized by the corporate propaganda machine that likes to call itself “the liberal media” to which everyone knows they are actually “the corporate media”

this has been a public anouncement from the no propaganda zone

The last time I read my Declaration of Independence there is no “right” to free health care. If you define medical care as commons, what next? Lawyers? Cars? Or just what some elite decides should be mandated? That way DOES lead to totalitarian Communism and Fascism.

well, I had to leave and haven’t had a chance to come back till this thread is long old

“libery lee”, nor is there a “constitutional right” to drink water, nor have a road or public water.

commons have nothing to do with constitutional “rights” commons are the common needs of society to move forward

again, you are hypnotized by that non existant “liberal” media

corporations try to make believe they don’t rely on “the commons” but they rely on them more then we do

where would corporations be without roads, water, educated populace, sick polulace?

where would corporations be withut money, (another commons), without the army to protect their property, without courts to protect their intelectual property, without the police

the commons are the oommon needs that are required to move forward

private industry is the least efficient and running the commons because they put profit above service, they price according to need not according to margins

too late I suppose for you to read though, this thread is long old

LibertyLee @ 68

The trouble is: Government IS inherently bad at running anything except the Defense and State Department (not too good there either)…With no profit motive, there is no drive to excel and therefore no drive to make things better.

So you and everyone you know only try to excel if it’ll get you more money? What a sad world you must live in.

You can repeat that theory as fact as often as you like, but it doesn’t make it true.

Red, I too would have thought that a VERY profitable UPPER MIDDLE CLASS working wage, and pride in serving one’s country, would be incentive enough for any government worker to excel at their tasks . . . . ;-)

. . .

Crap. They’re gonna go with judicial contempt as opposed to inherent contempt.

I still say that, as a tactical matter, they ought to get Harriet Miers on inherent contempt, and use Bolten’s contempt as the test case to run through the courts, in order to thrust Bush’s obstruction into the daylight – and perhaps, perhaps, even into the MSM arena.

Hit ‘em from both sides – outflank ‘em.

Ya know, I was with you all the way.

Until I thought, I wonder if this is a test of the court’s which we KNOW are stacked, then Congress unveils some means of dealing with it all as a coup attempt and nails all the evil ones.

But then I woke up and realized, I was dreaming and I’m as wracked and confused as I was before.

Here’s hoping ’something’ works?

. . . .
this is corporate propaganda

private industry is least efficient when it provides a neccessary or mandated service, they price according to need

insurance, health care, etc…they overprice way over profit indications due to the need…there is very little competition when the service is needed or mandated

private industry is only efficient when they are providing a product that is not needed…then they price according to demand

when they price according to demand their prices have to reflect the market willingness to purchase

when they price something that is needed or mandatory the price reflects the highest dollar amount they can come up with

mandatory or neccessary services are known as “the commons”

army, roads, beaches, water…these are commons

health care is commons….our society relies on healthy populace, the healthier the populace the more productive, the more revenue, the more progress

so, no libery lee, you have been hypnotized by the corporate propaganda machine that likes to call itself “the liberal media” to which everyone knows they are actually “the corporate media”

this has been a public anouncement from the no propaganda zone

Perris, I KNOW I’ve seen you post the same or similar thing a few times and I just want to say:

THANKS!!!!

*G*

Your take on the viability of different systems to achieve results is spot on IMHO!

And Happy Birthday, Ms. Hamsher, many more to you and yours. May all your chocolate cake be YOURS!!! Let the poodles bake their own! ;-)

My .02 on who has “better medical care”:

Other countries have better universal coverage for simple procedures that don’t cost much. The United States has among the best care for complex medical situations. I worked at Mass General which had people come from around the world for treatment.

So the answer is not them or us, the answer is, it depends on what kind of medical procedures you are talking about.

And that you can afford.