As they’ve done throughout their history as a minority party, the Republican strategy for the 2008 elections is to block Congress from getting anything done, and blame it on the Democrats. They’re now obstructing more than 20 major appropriations and policy bills through threatened filibusters and vetoes. Yesterday, the leaders of the Grand Obstruction Party announced their latest obstruction target, a much needed expansion of the popular and effective State Children’s Health Insurance Program.
There are millions of children who receive little or no health care and are too poor to get insurance. SCHIP was originally conceived to provide coverage for children of families who are not eligible for Medicaid but still too poor to purchase private health insurance. It provides health coverage through a pooled, subsidized fund to pay for health care for children in families below a certain income threshold. By raising the threshold, and including other family members, millions more who are currently without care or insurance can receive care. The increased funding — $35 billion in the Senate version; $50 billion in the House — would be provided by taxes, in this case, higher cigarette taxes, and reductions in subsidies for private health insurance. But the main idea is to increase access to the pooled funding mechanism.
Despite bipartisan support in both houses for significant expansion of SCHIP, the Republican leadership has decided to block any major expansion and to support President Bush’s threatened veto [h/t Jane]. And why are they against expanding a successful children’s health program, especially when solving the problem of uninsured/uncovered Americans is high on the public’s wish list? The answers reveal today’s Republicans at their hypocritical worst.
Partly it’s because this is the opening skirmish in the looming battle over the structure of health care reform. You see, if access to SCHIP’s pooled funding mechanism is expanded, so that more Americans can choose it, then Republicans fear Americans who have a choice between the tax-funded pool and private insurance plans that are more expensive (unless subsidized) will choose the tax-funded pool approach — just like a single payer system. That solution costs less, but the private insurers lose business. So the Republican game is to preclude as many people as they can from having this choice by limiting access to the pooled approach, and then pushing people into private insurance plans through direct subsidies, tax credit incentives or simply denying Americans any other choice.
We’ve already heard the President, who claims anyone can get universal health care just by showing up at an emergency room, attack the SCHIP expansion as favoring a “government run” program. McConnell and Boehner are now labeling the concept as “Hillary Care,” echoing the completely stupid claims by Mitt Romney that Senator Clinton’s approach (which she hasn’t announced) is essentially Marxist. It’s the beginning of the debate over “socialized medicine,” just as Moore’s SiCKO predicted.
Mitch McConnell also knows that by using the 60-vote rule to block every significant legislative action in the Senate, the Republicans may be able to drag the Democrats down to the low approval ratings the Republicans earned over the past six years. Creating the false impression that the Democrats are unable to govern, while concealing that the reason is the Republicans’ cynical obstruction tactics, is a pitiful platform to run on, but apparently it’s all the Republicans have left.
And if you’re too young to remember the red-scare tactics of the communists-under-the-bed era, just watch Mitt and Rudy, Fred and George. The Republicans will replay that history because they think Americans are dumb enough to fall for it again, and they don’t care if it’s America’s children who pay the price.
Photo: Melina Mara, Washington Post, on Boehner’s election as House GOP leader: “We must act swiftly to restore the trust between Congress and the American people,” said Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio).
Related posts:
- Mitt Romney’s Idea of Health Care Reform: Giving Big Insurance Whatever They Want
- Does House Health Care Bill Eliminate SCHIP?
- The Republicans and Health Care: They Snooze, You Lose
- Health Care Alert! CDC Says New Virus Turns Republicans Into TakeOver Zombies!
- Every Objective Poll on the Planet Indicates Americans Don’t Trust Republicans on Health Care





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good morning!
Caw
Happy Birthday, Jane!
Happy Birthday Jane and Bro!
Good morning Scarecrow, and happy birthday to our beloved (((((Jane)))))
America’s children will not be helped by a Health System run by the government with the efficiency of the post office and the courtesy of your local DMV. Doctors, nurses, drug companies–everything that makes the US system the best in the world–would cease to exist as would the health of the entire population.
In celebration of Jane’s birthday, I hope that Harry Reid plans another sleepover.
A birthday, I love birthdays! Happy, happy, Jane
Now here is an issue where I’d really like to see an all-night debate scheduled. I want to hear one Republican after another step up and explain why they are blocking health care to kids.
I’d schedule an all-nighter on every one of these things — the GOP doesn’t want and up-and-down votes, fine. Make ‘em explain why on bill after bill after bill.
And then make sure the Democrats explain the GOP’s obstructionist tactics to the main stream press …. repeat as needed.
Hippo Birdies to Jane!!!!
scarecrow- minor ed. McConnell and Boehner(
t) are now labeling the concept as “Hillary Care,Paraphrasing the repubs, only Hillary cares about the health of the children of our nation. What a lie, all democratic members care about the health of our children.
AJ @ 9
Excellent idea.
Harry . . . . . are you listeining.
Also helps us stay in session in August with 2 upsides
1) repigs can’t raise money at home (dems already way ahead at this)
2) limits recess appointments
Nothing like good ideas first thing in the morning.
RevDeb @ 10
Thank you.
Good morning everyone. Happy Birthday to our Ms. Hamsher.
And a very merry unbirthday to everyone else. More tea?
LibertyLee @ 6
The U.S. system is not even close to the best in the world. And our government would be substantially more efficient when there are fewer people who believe that government is inherently bad running it.
How did Boener get such a rich tan?
Isn’t he working?
must be the golf junkets.
Good morning.
Troll alert or snark?
[Mod: Let’s be careful calling a fellow commenter a troll. All are welcome here, as long as they state their opinions with respect for the poster and others here.]
JPL @ 7
In celebration of Jane’s birthday, I hope that Harry Reid plans another sleepover.
Agreed. Denying health insurance to children? perfect issue to force Repigs to stand up all night to try to defend.
And then – slap the Webb Amendment back on the table.
No sleep!
LibertyLee @ 6
Good morning LibertyLee. You are my last hope, but alas . . . Yes, it’s astonishing that France hasn’t falled completely off the map, and all of Europe, and Canada. The earth must look very strange to some.
Happy Birthday, Jane!
Thanks, Scarecrow, for bringing this up. It’s an obscene example of the toxicity of the Rs’ strategy of blocking everything the dems try to do, just cuz they can.
But why, oh why, do the Repugs always get to have their cake and eat it too?! When the dems did it, it was universally understood as “obstructionist dems.” But now that they’re being obstructionist, it’s the “do-nothing dems.”
How do we break through the Wurlitzer?! Surely we should be able to get some traction with the health of children.
hmmm….. let’s see… our choice is corporate welfare for insurance companies or health care for kids.
why are we even debating this?
Harry we need a filibuster if we don’t stand up for kids and do everything we can for them then were not Democrats!
RevDeb @ 15
Deb, please correct your spelling if you want to comment here. :)
Scarecrow @ 13
wish I could, but I’m late, I’m late, for a very important date . . . .
Nola Sue @ 19
Too-dumb-to-live Ds need backbone. We’ve said it before & we’ll say it some more. They have the right policy, they just need to be effective at talking about it. What are they afraid of?
question – when is this issue scheduled to hit in the Congress?
LibertyLee @ 6
Watch Sicko
i’m guessing today is jane’s birthday? in that case, let me also say…
hippo bird days two ewes, jane!
We ought to be able to figure out another theater event for the Republicans on this one — something to do with Bush emergency room comment and Marxists?
Why in the fuck is anyone surprised by this? Our Beloved Leader raped and pillaged this program as the Gubnor of Tejass.
His attitude towards poor children then was the same as it is now: “if their indentured servant parents can’t afford to care for them, it’s not my problem. Mebbe they ought to stop havin’ something they can’t afford.”
Impeachment is more than a word.
is there a g-day party planned?…I wanna come to it
Don’t forget Fearless Leader has threatened to veto the bill. I guess more 50 year-olds who can’t speak because of cleft palates is his idea of a great country.
The dogs and I are eating birthday watermelon breakfast. Man do they love watermelon.
Scarecrow @ 28
it would be fun if we could get his colonoscopy in there somewhere too. I still think of those polyps with the faces of LIEberman, Russert, McConnell, Fredo, and Bill Kristol.
The people of Holland are taller. Infant mortality rates are higher than in other western countries and our life spans are shorter. We are doing something wrong when the French drink and smoke as much if not more than us but their life spans and cancer rates are not as bad as ours. Healthcare can be administered well but not by Republicans. I say steal from the best lets just copy the French!
Rev Deb, At least Bush can affort to get a colonoscopy.
Jane Hamsher @ 31
I used to have a cat who loved cantelope.
Hope you have a great one Jane!
(((((((Happy Birthday Jane!)))))))
Jane Hamsher @ 31
Thanks for the link, M’Lady. You get a h/t.
Is this the same watermelon that got blown up? You really should move to a nicer area.
This would be a great birthday present, in case anyone was wondering.
JPL @ 34
afford? I can think of lots of folks who would stand in line to goive him one for free. They’d probably leave out the anesthetic though. Or charge lots extra for that.
Happiest of birthdays, Jane. May you have many more surrounded by friends, loved ones, and firepups (not necessarily different people! :)
for today’s viewing:
BUSH ADMINISTRATION
Contempt Citations
The House Judiciary Committee meets to consider contempt citations against Fmr. WH Counsel Harriet Miers & WH Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten. Both have failed to comply with subpoenas issued by the committee, and Miers refused to appear at a scheduled July 12 hearing. Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) chairs the markup.
WEDS., C-SPAN3, 10:15AM ET
Has Waxman scheduled hearings on TILLMAN yet?
Scarecrow @ 28
What would freak out the Rs into a paroxysm of hate spewing would be if some House or Senate committee sponsored a showing of Sicko, followed by a panel of experts to either confirm or refute it. Packing the panel should be easy as pie.
LibertyLee @ 6
this is corporate propaganda
private industry is least efficient when it provides a neccessary or mandated service, they price according to need
insurance, health care, etc…they overprice way over profit indications due to the need…there is very little competition when the service is needed or mandated
private industry is only efficient when they are providing a product that is not needed…then they price according to demand
when they price according to demand their prices have to reflect the market willingness to purchase
when they price something that is needed or mandatory the price reflects the highest dollar amount they can come up with
mandatory or neccessary services are known as “the commons”
army, roads, beaches, water…these are commons
health care is commons….our society relies on healthy populace, the healthier the populace the more productive, the more revenue, the more progress
so, no libery lee, you have been hypnotized by the corporate propaganda machine that likes to call itself “the liberal media” to which everyone knows they are actually “the corporate media”
this has been a public anouncement from the no propaganda zone
Jo Fish @ 29
Bush said that?Please tell me there is video or witnesses!
Jane Hamsher @ 38
If there’s anything that we can do to help make that happen, you know we would!
LibertyLee @ 6
U.S. healthcare ranks 25th among the top 25 industrial nations of the world in terms of quality. Also, it is the most expensive, costing twice as much per resident as the average and 50% than Switzerland, which is in second place in terms of cost.
Note that there is much more government involvement in the healthcare systems of those 24 countries nations that outrank us in both quality and efficiency.
BTW, the U.S. has an pays for universal healthcare — it’s called “the emergency room,” and it’s truly horrible and very expensive care.
AARP and the AMA are running segments here asking TV viewers to contact their Congressional members to vote for SCHIP. I’ve heard it described in Bush country as Hillary’s socialized medicine (by people who have medical insurance).
This site has information on your State’s Congresspersons’ stand:
http://www.yourcongressyourhea….._state.php
Astronet Daily for Leos:
Have things been snappish between you and a dear one? Try taking a completely different tact in your next interaction. Before you start talking, set your intentions. Make this person feel warm and welcome. It’ll help.
Happy Birthday, Jane!
RevDeb @ 32
I don’t trust you guys with colonoscopy themes. GB’s health plan gave him a free c . . ., but all our kids get is this crappy emergency room.
Jane Hamsher @ 38
It would be even better if they go for inherent contempt and skip all the other baloney.
happiest of birthdays, ms. hamsher.
another sharp post, scarecrow. you’re absolutely right — this is the front edge of the fight AGAINST health care reform.
we heard these nonarguments — these distractions, really — in the 90s, and we will hear them in the coming years as the issue returns to center stage. the system is broken, and the pressure to fix it is rising daily — anyone who gets caught seeking health care knows how perverse the situation has become.
and to the commenter who noted that government ought to be run by people who believe in government, that too is spot on. you put someone who hates the thing he’s doing in charge, why would you be surprised when he does a bad job?
i don’t find this stuff amusing anymore.
Sally @ 47
Even Pharma has been running commercials on TV promoting SCHIP. Of course it’s in their best profit interests to do so but for this, we’ll take that support. Then we’ll take them out of the game afterwards.
LibertyLee @ 6
Do yourself a favor and go see SiCKO then come back and try and spew that crap.
eCAHNomics @ 42
I like that. And more videos of emergency rooms at county hospitals.
Jane Hamsher @ 38
This would be a great birthday present, in case anyone was wondering.
Crap. They’re gonna go with judicial contempt as opposed to inherent contempt.
I still say that, as a tactical matter, they ought to get Harriet Miers on inherent contempt, and use Bolten’s contempt as the test case to run through the courts, in order to thrust Bush’s obstruction into the daylight – and perhaps, perhaps, even into the MSM arena.
Hit ‘em from both sides – outflank ‘em.
{{{{{{{{{{Jane!}}}}}}}}}}}}
Happy Birthday Happy Birthday
Happy Happy Happy Birthday
Happy Birthday Happy Birthday
Happy Happy Happy Birthday
HAAAA-py Birthday
HAAAA-py Birthday
HAAAA-py Birthday
To You!
Enjoy your day Jane!
Jane Hamsher @ 38
hey jane, howz this for a birthday present?
cheney running for president.
man, that would be the greatest gift I could imagine
if this is not a demonstration of how mad the man is, he thinks he has a shot at winning the presidency
the man is insane
I wonder how we compare to nonindustrial countries that have some form of healthcare?
Happy Birthday Jane! May the force be with you always:)
A little OT, but there is a tie-in with currents posts…
Question:
Who is probably the one person who could unite both the Dems/progressives etc and real old school conservatives?
Who is not tainted by any of the political/criminal/grandstanding crap going on now?
Who, by name and pedigree, would remind everyone of what America stood for?
Also, this is probably the one person that the MSM couldn’t/wouldn’t be able to go after very easily….
Check out the speech ( scroll down ). This man has passion, history and has very quietly been doing his bit for the country all his life.
And as a brief side-note, the irony of this man defeating the
‘Dark-side’ (What with the tangled history of the current players! ) tickles me no end..Poetic justice anyone???
http://www.myspace.com/rfk_jr_for_the_usa
Here in GA, PeachCare, our part of the SCHIP program, has been about to run out of money for a while. Our 2 Rep Senators (Chambliss and Isaakson) went to bat for extra funding earlier. They were actually pushing for it, realizing that many of their constituents really need the program. Now, since Bush has promised to veto it, Chambliss, at least, is wavering. Sounds like it’s time for some phone calls.
Happy Birthday Jane and many many more. You truly are an american treasure. Shine on Girl.
It certainly is true that SCHIP has the potential to expose people to the reality of single-payer, and that should frighten the die-hard free-marketeers. A debate in which Senators stood up and said how that they didn’t want insurers telling parents what treatments their kids could have might work, although if the coverage is like that of the WaPo on the Gonzales “hearings” it won’t even be printed.
Too many people are like Liberty Lee, believing that the USA is Number 1 at everything, that government doesn’t work, and that if we change anything they will be injured. They fear change so much that they cannot handle information that contradicts their impressions, and fight blindly against both the information, the bearer of the information and the people who create the new data. They are easily manipulated by those with a vested interest, a money interest, in the current structure.
Nothing will change until we figure out how to reach these frightened souls.
happyyy birthhhhdayyyy 222222222 uuuuuuuuuu
off 2 work all, see u L8tr
SanderO @ 60
I read that and thought it said “ancient treasure.” And I’m like, “oh don’t stick me in the ground yet.”
things come undone @ 57
Great Q. I’ve never seen any stats or reporting on this. Has anyone else?
jayt @ 54
Crap. They’re gonna go with judicial contempt as opposed to inherent contempt.
I still say that, as a tactical matter, they ought to get Harriet Miers on inherent contempt, and use Bolten’s contempt as the test case to run through the courts, in order to thrust Bush’s obstruction into the daylight – and perhaps, perhaps, even into the MSM arena.
Hit ‘em from both sides – outflank ‘em.
I actually think judicial contempt at this point is the wise choice. Make Bush block it, and paint it as obstruction of justice (which, of course, it is). He has said he will not allow it to reach the courts. Once he blocks it, then there is no other option than inherent contempt. I think the Ds are playing this one wisely (slowly, but wisely).
jayt @ 54
Crap. They’re gonna go with judicial contempt as opposed to inherent contempt.
I still say that, as a tactical matter, they ought to get Harriet Miers on inherent contempt, and use Bolten’s contempt as the test case to run through the courts, in order to thrust Bush’s obstruction into the daylight – and perhaps, perhaps, even into the MSM arena.
Hit ‘em from both sides – outflank ‘em.
Actually I think that starting this way is good strategy. This gets the entire DoJ on record for obstruction on top of everything else they’ve been doing. There will always be inherent contempt to fall back on. This is part of the political theater, the entre act before we get to the main performance.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 14
The trouble is: Government IS inherently bad at running anything except the Defense and State Department (not too good there either)…With no profit motive, there is no drive to excel and therefore no drive to make things better.
Happy Birthday Jane. See you in Chicago.
PS: My cat loves watermelon.
RevDeb @ 45
Here is an interesting thought:
Sally at 47:
This site has information on your State’s Congresspersons’ stand:
http://www.yourcongressyourhea….._state.php
Thanks for the link.
Jane Hamsher @ 64
jane, age is just a number.
and yours shall ever be 27.
Jane Hamsher @ 38
They were ready to do this 3 months ago, but we asked them to hold it for your birthday. That’s what you wanted, right?
OT, but Gonzo is always on topic here, isn’t he..
The only Gonzo oped I saw was in the WaPo. Nothing in the NYT. And, as usual, nothing in the WSJ.
I take the fact that there is nothing in the WSJ, and never is, that there is no support for Gonza.
If the Democrats really want to be seen as doing something, the should impeach Gonzo.
AJ @ 9
Yup – I can’t see how making the repubs filibuster on this would be anything but a winner for the democrats.
Scarecrow @ 18
If those systems are so good why do their people come here when they need high tech fixes for what ail them? In England they don’t even wash the sheets between patients to save money; in France, the taxes are so high for the government “services” that Sarkozy is trying to repeal the 35 hour week; Canadians come over here for medical procedures (e.g. Mayo Minnesota), while we go over there because they subsidize drugs. That is non-sustaining.
Ah, Jane, happy birthday! My gift to you is news of my granddaughter, aka FreeSpirit. It’s her birthday, too! She’s fourteen.
She’s being raised in my son’s politically conservative household (complete with rightie talk radio — yeah, I know. *gut clenches*). But get this!
FreeSpirit is asking questions, forming opinions and tilting totally left. She is smart, articulate, has a kick-ass attitude and the potential to be a powerful progressive advocate.
I am tickled that she shares a birthday with you. She is one of the bright lights for our future, pups!
things come undone @ 57
We rank two above Cuba overall.
Jo Fish @ 29
Yes, but don’t forget. No birth control, and certainly no abortion. We will subsidize your little blue pills, though.
things come undone @ 26
I have seen clips; it is cleverly edited propaganda from the same people who said Fidel Castro was the great Liberator of Cuba…
wigwam @ 77
One of the ‘poorest’ countries in the world, according to Moore (on Tweety’s show – C&L has video).
jayt @ 41
Yes jayt, August 1st.
I’m not against running contempt through the courts. But Harriet Miers didn’t even bother to show up. That’s pretty much inherent contempt by definition.
Holding inherent contempt as a fall-back position smacks, to me, of “keeping the (expletive deleted) powder dry”
First – show them they’re serious with at least one inherent contempt in the bank – *then* let Bush fight them in court.
Another supporter for Reid to bring this bill up for a vote, and refuse to conduct other Senate business until there is a vote. Force a GOP filibuster on it — but only pull an “all-nighter” after forcing the GOP to maintain the debate themselves for a full couple of days on the Senate floor.
Good Morning!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY JANE!
(Who spits the seeds the farthest?)
So is it fair to say that the Bush Republicans are aborting SCHIP? One more example of how they ostensibly revere the fetus but abandon the child.
Good Morning
Happy Birthday Jane!
perris @ 43
The last time I read my Declaration of Independence there is no “right” to free health care. If you define medical care as commons, what next? Lawyers? Cars? Or just what some elite decides should be mandated? That way DOES lead to totalitarian Communism and Fascism.
wigwam @ 77
Link?
Wordsmith @ 78
It’s amazing the degree to which we’ve been propagandized with we’re-number-one rhetoric and the economic gospel according to Reagan that government-provided services are inevitably inefficient. The reason they are inefficient is that in this country they are delivered by a government run by Republicans, who don’t believe in government-provided services. In other countries they work fine.
My .02 on who has “better medical care”:
Other countries have better universal coverage for simple procedures that don’t cost much. The United States has among the best care for complex medical situations. I worked at Mass General which had people come from around the world for treatment.
So the answer is not them or us, the answer is, it depends on what kind of medical procedures you are talking about.
LibertyLee @ 76
Most enlightening. Thanks for being here this morning. Just so nobody accuses you of repeating unsubstantiated Republian talking points, I’d like to invite you to provide links to back up the above claims so we’re all on the same page.
Jane Hamsher @ 38
In view of executive branch refusals to enforce congressional actions, I’m starting to think that Congress might need to legislate an increase in the Congressional Sergeant-at-Arms staff, say to 300,000, and with appropriate equipment. I’m getting flashbacks to the Long Parliament, Divine Right Monarchy, and the need for Roundheads.
Those with money opt out of universal care systems.
High-tech U.S. medicine is actually part of the problem, not part of the solution. It costs a lot, but adds very little to the health of the population.
Look at outcomes, not inputs.
As for the commons arguement, public health departments were established to deal with infectious diseases. I amnot aware that was in the Constitution, but few would argue that we all are not better off when infectious diseases are contained.
WRT other medical care, do you think the economy would not be more prosperous if everyone had basic medical care, and it was provided at half the current cost?
eCAHNomics @ 86
That is according to Michael Moore on Tweety’s show of Monday (I think) — C&L has video per wordsmith@78.
LL:
Apparently you’re unaware that Americans have been going there for health care they can’t afford here. But let’s assume that the US system had a super duper procedure for curing X, and noone else had it. While it techically exists, only the wealthiest could get access to it; everyone else is out of luck, and even though you might have insurance, the incentive of your insurance company is to claim (1) this is medically unnecessary, (2) the costs are too high, so it won’t be covered, and (3) you had X as a pre-existing condition, so it’s excluded. I don’t see how one can ignore the thousands/millions of experiences like this that characterize the US system.
This is not a technology issue; it’s a question of getting access with no questions, no forms, no hassles. Make access to the US system available to everyone without discrimination and without the perverse incentives that private insurance funding unavoidably imposes, and we might actually have a discussion. But you have to start by acknowledging the stories of millions of people who are frustrated and denied access by this system.
Liberty Lee – there is either a typo in the following sentence or else you are severely intellectually challenged:
I am not American and very happy that way but I enjoy free health care through the entire EC countries as well as Australia and New Zealand which has saved my life at least twice for nada. I also have a higher life expectancy than the average American.
I have spent time in the USA too and vowed never to return when I left last year to come back to Australia
Wordsmith @ 79
wigwam @ 46
I would like to know by what measure they defined quality. I have had two triple bypasses and am being treated for an assortment of cardio-vascular maladies. I have employer paid health coverage, but my co-pays have gone through the roof and the quality has declined. I would still fear to go to a foreign doctor.
GOP
GRAFT
OBSTRUCTION
PERVERTS
Jane @ 92…that’s why we love you.
wigwam @ 93
I’m looking for the raw data, not Moore’s short version.
the Glob has a good editorial on Abu.
Last graph:
In the Republic mindset, poor kids have no health care because they chose to be born into poor families.
egregious @ 88
Systems of any kind, including healthcare, are usually rated on their average-case performance. Being market driven, U.S. health care tends to focus on the most profitable cases, which are often atypical.
Yes, but if you die in 2010 can you pass on your estate to your heirs tax free?
Happy Birthday Jane !!!!
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jane}}}}}}}}}}}}}
I wonder if The Movie SiCko has raised awareness of 1) How our healthcare system is different than those in “grown-up” countries, and 2)How our government protects the insuranace and pharma conglomerates ???
I hope that in my life time we take the “profit” out of disease and death.
Badwater @ 100
except for the fact that the word “choice”is not in the vocabulary of the repigs. They only care about the “kids” before they are born. Then, they are on their own.
Scarecrow @ 96
I am very grateful for the wonderful healthcare I’ve enjoyed over the past year during my bout with cancer. Best in the world. No doubt about it.
I am fully insured through Blue Cross and I thought my personal share was going to be around $20,000. Before this is over it will be three times that. If someone thinks this is a great model for public healthcare, and that children should be denied access to it if their middle class parents can’t write that kind of check, I respectfully beg to differ.
wigwam @ 103
Yep. Not only atypical, but adding HUGE amounts to the costs.
LibertyLee @ 76
Canadians sometimes go to Mayo for treatment of very rare cancers. My wife’s cousin went there. He was also a multi-millionaire. Ordinary people can’t afford it, and outside very exceptional situations, the government will not pay for it. But they wouldn’t pay in the US for poor people to have that treatment either, would they?
eCAHNomics @ 100
Does this help? LINK to MM.com/SiCKO/CNN
Badwater @ 103
(*sigh*). They really do need to take responsibility for those kinds of poor choices.
LibertyLee @ 68
So you and everyone you know only try to excel if it’ll get you more money? What a sad world you must live in.
You can repeat that theory as fact as often as you like, but it doesn’t make it true.
LibertyLee what about the Right to LIFE, Liberty and Happiness? The French provide healthcare for everybody for less money do you like spending more money?
What about all the disease poor people get that doesn’t get treated until they have to go to the emergency room? We could have an outbreak of bird flu caused by migratory ducks shot and eaten by Red State hunters and never know until people with healthcare got sick. By then the disease could spread across the country.
Helping others is helping yourself sometimes this liberal impluse to help others is what makes society possible.
Mojo @ 105
Outlaw tobacco.
I’ve always been curious why those countries with national health care systems, if they are as bad as professed by conservatives, don’t rescind them and revert to a more Darwinistic system.
eCAHNomics @ 105
In particular, Americans get gruesome and costly end-of-life care.
If we don’t have a right to health care for all of us paid by taxes, then taxpayer supported police and fire protection must be evil socialism also. Let’s privatize all of our police & fire depts & let the free market reign! Let the good times roll!
Jane Hamsher @ 92
Just a few links, there are many more:
http://www.dailynews.com/bridgetjohnson/ci_6336276
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..696626.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3423159.stm
‘tobacco’ of course. Coffee…more coffee. That can’t be good for my health…*wink
I recall not so many years ago speaking to a cardiac surgeon who had been brought into our area to start the open heart/bypass program at a local medical center. He’d come from Pittsburgh and I asked him what the biggest part of his practice there was. His reply was that he mostly did major valve repair jobs on teenagers who’d had Strep Throat as children but had lacked medical care. Fairly inexpensive antibiotics would have prevented the Strep turning into Rheumatic Fever and the valve damage. I think anyone who is not brain-dead can figure out that $10.00 worth of Penicillin could have prevented $50,000 worth of medical costs later on. And he also told me that many many of these teenagers ended up needing to have pacemakers installed in their 30s. So, there is THAT cost as well.
Now, I realize that for many folks (and not just GOP), there is this deep-seated Dickensian belief that the reason poor people are poor and have poor health is that they are too stupid to go get it. And that somehow makes them bad people and that “we” are somehow superior to “them”. I’m not going to go there – I think that is a fallacious argument. It is, however, the same argument that got GWB and people like him their lifetime advantages, kept them out of having to sit in a rice paddy with a gun in VietNam, and allows them to think it is somehow acceptable to send the military into a country that never attacked us, destroy the country and murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people. My two cents.
PS apropos totalitarian fascism, well, the USA has beaten the rest of the world to it.
things come undone @ 114
And the French Health System failed to deal with their heat wave a couple of years ago documented by their own Government:
http://www.usatoday.com/weathe…..heat_x.htm
Lou Costello @ 117
Tobacco…did someone say tobacco?
many happy returns, Jane. speaking of happy returns, anyone know if Conyers and Sanchez are going to be on CSPAN3?
ot-sort of. good utube here. how to create an angry american.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ
Liberty Lee-
I love that you’re still showing up here.
Do you really believe that they don’t wash the sheets in British hospitals? Because they do. And spouting out crazy stuff like that, sure doesn’t bolster your argument.
Britain also has a healthy private health care system that you, or your insurance, can buy into, if you choose.
And I’m sure that everyone here has mentioned this, but the fact is that we pay more right now, already out of our tax dollar to subsidize the health care industry than we would if we had a national plan of some sort. And, by the way, the Post Office runs just fine – with virtually no Gov. support anymore.
Jane Hamsher @ 111
Yeah, the Repubs block schooling on sex education for anything but abstinence, try to block access to condoms and birth control, block or attempt to ban access to abortions so that the babies will be born, and block health care for the babies born poor or middle class.
I’m trying to see where the logic runs through all of this but the connections are a bit too convoluted for this ol’ boy.
Thankfully, you can opt out of such “care” if you make your wishes clear. We are now doing so with my brother, who filled out all the right forms & chose the right person for his medical care proxy.
egregious @ 90
no. it also depends on how much money and access you have. i live in MA – and even with health insurance – i have to wait months for an appointment with a specialist, even when my PCP tries to make the appointment for me (and even for a potentially life threatening illness).
* i had a couple of personal examples which i deleted to protect my privacy. but i will say that my mom died in mass general – and her care was atrocious. so bad i wanted to sue (if it would have changed anything). i’ve been hospitalized several times in CA and TX, and stayed w/ my dad during his illness before he died in IL, and i’ve never seen such bad care as i have experienced in MA. and not just for me, i’ve witnessed bad care for people i know and worked with.
it might be great if you are a VIP – but the rest of us are dependent on finding good doctors who actually have the time to deal with nonroutine problems. and that’s even if we have health insurance (which thankfully, is far more accessible in MA than much of the rest of the country.
To Liberty Lee at 76: What is it about Medicare you don’t like?
Katrina anyone?
Scarecrow these obstructionist tactics are another example of the Bush administrations and the Republicans “compassionate conservatism”
Just how much much more of the Bush administrations “compassionate conservatism” can Americans and the world take. Over a year ago the Lancet Study reported that 650,000 Iraqi people have lost their “hearts and minds” bodies and souls as a direct result of our illegal invasion of their country. Both Lancet reports were swept under the rug along with the hundreds of thousands of dead, injured and displaced Iraqi people.
How can we wonder why many people around the world hate and fear U.S.
OT ~ They identified something they found up the Shrub’s ass……‘Billy’ Kristol.
Scarecrow, you are very welcome.
This subject would be a great all-night debate for the Democrats to take on. The Democrats could shine the light on the Republics’ outright lies and misinformation.
TiredFed @ 122
many happy returns, Jane. speaking of happy returns, anyone know if Conyers and Sanchez are going to be on CSPAN3?
10:15 A.M. – C-Span 3
eCAHNomics @ 101
Micheal Moore is using OECD data here from 2005 to rank countries against a suite of metrics, including, access, customer satisfaction, treatment outcome, waiting time (for both elective and non-elective treatment), cost and a host of other things.
Also, Liberty Lee -
The Gov’t may be bad at running things, but privatizing everything only makes things worse. Why not just get Gov’t to be better at running things? Why not try to get Gov’t to work better? Why is this just an excuse to cut funding for public transportation and education and everything else? It’s a dirty trick to say that Gov’t doesn’t work when you cut the funding to the point where it can’t work – see Amtrak, FEMA, etc.
Good one. Why shouldn’t the U.S. be a humane and compassionate state that has healthcare and other services for the young, the poor, the disabled, et al? Because the Republikans say that makes us commie. Or–Because the Republikans say it makes us commie because they are running out of ammo to help their good friends the lobbyists. They should be ashamed of themselves, stealing money from the mouths of babes and giving it to lobbyists.
I suppose that none of LibertyLee’s family has partaken of the evil socialized Medicare or Medicaid coverage? My grandparent’s certainly benefitted form the program…
The care they recieved was better than I get from my HMO.
jayt @ 135
10:15 A.M. – C-Span 3
woo hoo. coffee break at 10:15!
selise, I’m truly sorry to hear about your mother’s death at the General.
GeorgeSimian @ 138
Yes, & look what privatizing the war has done. We have no accountability from contractors. Millions down the drain.
Thanks sona @ 136. I’m mucking about on the WHO site in another window, but haven’t found it yet. I just thought someone might have the direct link.
I was disappointed by the links that LL provided. I was actually expecting dirty sheets and total lack of health care. The idea that the French have to pay more or face the consequences in 2020 is unfortunate but at least they have the option of paying more.
Jane’s B-day party is upstairs — new thread.
allan_in_upstate @ 105
I sure can – there is no estate tax on personal gifts to one’s children in Australia, eg, on jewellery. Residential home is another matter.
Because of how the American healthcare system functions, ER visits for non-life threatening can be waits of 6-8 hrs. My last experience was with my son’s accident with a dislocated elbow, admitted at around 11pm and we did not leave until 6am.
As an former RN, insurance Utilization Review and Case Manager, the system is very broken. Did YOU know that the cost of the uninsured AND Medicare AND Medicaid are shifted to the insured. It is called cost shifting in the industry. Some insurance companies, Medicare & Medicaid do not pay enough for inpatient services to cover the actual costs SO if you have a plan that is not a HMO or PPO or you are a self pay, the costs are shifted.
Ask any Canadian if they are willing to give up their healthcare system? …. don’t see any hands up…
The bogus argument of wait times to see MD’s is a crock. I have waited 6 months to see specialists and if I do not make my mammogram appointment for next year when I have it this year I am SOL.
Yesterday on the Mike Malloy radio show he had a caller from TX who went to SICKO disrupting the film, cat calls ect but about 45 minutes into the film the guy got quiet and started really watching it, by the end this guy was completely converted. What the caller said was that in the lobby of the theater the audience got together and exchanged phone & email addies and started organizing to make changes.
mui @ 142
Forgive the correction pleease.
thank you Scarecrow!
RevDeb @ 15
Not junkets, “junk science”. You see, he doesn’t think the science that produced “sunblock” is valid. He is a fundamentalist. He doesn’t even believe in Coppertone.
TiredFed @ 124
yep! it’s on the c-span3 schedule. and webcast here.
Lou Costello @ 115
Before we start taking away our personal freedoms, I have a better idea..
OUTLAW CORPORATIONS …..
“Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property. Corporate personhood is the legal fiction that property is a person. “
Interesting read..
What corporations can do..
selise @ 129
selise. I’m very sorry to hear about your situation wrt to medical care. Mass used to be the premier State in the country for medicine when I lived there (born and raised up there, actually). We are very lucky to be in Maryland and close to Johns Hopkins. My wife has had several NDEs due to DVTs and PEs. But insurance is a different story. I have almost always had Blue Cross (with a few intervening years of NALC coverage). Never an HMO. Pretty much good experience with them. If we simply expanded their business model to national coverage, I wonder how much it would cost? anyways, this is not my area.
Q: What’s worse than a government monopoly?
A: A private cartel. Higher price & lower quality.
Lou Costello @ 115
How about we outlaw corporations instead.. it would solve a lot more problems..
Good Story
“Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property. Corporate personhood is the legal fiction that property is a person.”
eCAHNomics @ 144
MichaelM/SiCKO with all the links.
egregious @ 142
thanks. i appreciate that.
it still irks me whenever i see mass general spoke well of because of all the VIPS who go there for treatment. i’ve been in a few hospitals and always thought the care was somewhere between very good and outstanding. but mass general was off the scale bad. i’m probably going to hold that gruge for the rest of my life…. it’s not just that my mom died (that might not have been avoidable)… it was that she died with such unnecessary pain and suffering.
Jane Hamsher @ 38
Happy BD Jane! I have a dog that like to eat berries off of blackberry bushes.
BTW: The realplayer server for the meeting is up so get in before the connections max out. (Your cake is being served)
mui @ 143
Thanks for the correction Dakine. At least you can’t accuse me of overstating my case on this point, eh?
LibertyLee our congress and the preznit get excellant government health care. I urge you to read David Sirota. You’re simply restating a lot of myths.
LibertyLee @ 115
I randomly picked the last link. It’s a BBC article alarmingly headlined, “French healthcare is ‘badly run’“. But when I read it, I find:
The bottom line is that the French now spend 9% of their GDP on healthcare, and they may have to raise that a bit. Compared to our 15% of GDP for inferior care, that’s not a real problem.
Mojo @ 156
Yes, this was one of the worst ever SCOTUS decisions. I don’t see any hope of reversing it. I’m not even sure Gore, if he were elected (again), would be willing to pack the court with folks who would overturn this should he get the chance.
LibertyLee @ 123
So…your against government sponsered healthcare but pro government sponsered Air Conditioning?
Hmm Heck I can support that postion Chicago under mayor Daley in 1995 had 600 heat related deaths in 5 days Air Conditioning should be available for everyone!
The Bush Government is helping cause Global Warming the least they can do is give us free Air Conditioning! But having survied that heatwave I assume the French like the Chicagoites were not used to heat waves and didn’t know what to do.
-30 windchill winters, tornado were good but heat we were not prepared for that heat. Plus the power failed alot due to everybody who had AC turning it to the Max. I think the French had some power failures too and compared to us they got tons of nuclear plants!
Just so everyone knows, LibertyLee is my guest, and we don’t need to call anyone names who comments here and follows the rules about no personal attacks on each other. Clear? The mods can handle this.
TiredFed @ 154
hey TiredFed. thanks… it surprises me too.
Liberty Lee is content with the U.S. being rated 37th in health care according to WHO. Somehow chanting “We’re no. 37th” just doesn’t carry much weight. Keep up your dissembling and maybe in the not too distant future the U.S. wil have dropped to 47th just edging out Senegal and Yemen.
Given the fact that those who worship at the altar of American Exceptionalism have countless outlets for their ideological based spin, including of course the MSM, it’s surprising that FDL provides them yet another avenue to dissemble.
Micheal Moore asked Matthews if he would share his private hospital room with another person tonight if he knew that would mean that the 47 million Americans who are uninsured would have health care. Matthews said I know “I should” Matthews did not answer Moores question “would he”? Sounds like he would not. How could Matthews even hesitate? Sad Matthews very sad.
You can go to the Hardball page and there are a run of clips of Matthews interview with Micheal Moore. Great and lengthy interviews.
How telling is it that the Hardball page is dominated by the “Sex and the candidates” interviews instead of Micheal Moores serious focus on health care.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/
During Matthews interview with Moore, Moore shared his brilliant idea to cut the persistent and successful undermining of a National Health care plan( by calling it a “socialized” health care plan). He called a plan for a National Health care a “Christianized” health care plan. Brilliant
And Liberty, how to you explain away the facts that the WHO provides the following rankings:
US : Level of Health = 72′nd System Performance = 37′th
France : Level of Health = 4′th System Performance = 1’st
I don’t know, call be a fool but I would trade their problems for ours.
A sure fire way to kill a thread. Bring on a right wing corporatist to spin their web of falsehoods.
Bluetoe @ 167
I’m not content with being less than number one. The best doctor I ever had in my teens kept warning me that socialized medicine would destroy his practice. And it did. The rules and regulations that go into government programs far exceed that of private organizations. Most of the problems cited in the previous articles deal with the issues of Tort Reform; if you had Tort Reform, the cost of medical care would immediately plummet. But having the Government take over a problem the Government created strikes me as the fox overseeing the chicken coop.
“Christianized” Health Care for everyone. It’s only
rightfair.THX Kathleen.
things come undone @ 163
The problem with energy (power failure) is just a symptom; I don’t want to get into how Government has screwed up the Nuclear Power industry with over-regulation once again caused by the Trial Lawyers’ Lobby. But the RIGHT to life is that the government cannot deprive you of that without due process; it is not a promise of cradle-to-grave care. THAT is a prescription for totalitarianism. A government that will take care of you your entire life will tell you how to live it. THAT is un-American and very European/Russian/Chinese.
Bluetoe @ 172
I don’t mind LibertyLee commenting…
Jane can handle his diatribe..
It’s good to exercise our reason and logic in the face of antagonistic ideas..
LibertyLee @ 172
We don’t have socialized medicine. It’s the HMO system, the doctors are complaining of. I have many friends and family who are doctors/& are in healthcare, so I’ve heard complaints almost on a daily basis at time. They spend all their time dealing with insurance companies. That hampers practice.
As for Tort Reform, that would/& could seriously hamper patients’ rights. If we didn’t have some sort of legal remedies, the Patients’ bill of rights would never be written and the elderly, disabled and mentally ill would still be restrained to their beds, w/o proper care.
Mojo @ 175
Well, it’s annoying for those of this are beyond this basic level and would like to talk about healthcare w/o the GOP lobbyist talking points.
So, looks like the rest of the industrialized world has it wrong, eh?
I have friends in Canada, they like their health care system a great deal. They also think we are insane for putting up with ours.
Don’t buy the Corporate talking points, my friend, they are not on your side…
Patients’ Rights. Let’s not forget the landmark Wyatt v. Stickney.
LibertyLee @ 6
Man, someone’s been drinking flavor-aid early this morning.
I’ve never had any problems with the post office. In fact, when i sell items on e-bay, I prefer them to the ‘other guys’, because they’re cheaper, and if someone steals the package in transit, it’s a FEDERAL FELONY. Plus, I can track the package online, just like ‘the other guys’.
I had to use the ‘open door clinic’, because I don’t have insurance, And because I was a walk-in, I waited 4 hours, just to be turned away because they were understaffed, and were closing for the evening. I did get the ‘admittance’ paperwork for a sympathetic case worker, who put me on the appointment schedule for next week. I’ll only have to wait a couple of hours, to MAYBE get a referral to an orthopedic specialist.
I get so tired of hearing this bullsh*t excuse from ditto heads…
egregious @ 91
And that you can afford.
perris @ 43
Perris, I KNOW I’ve seen you post the same or similar thing a few times and I just want to say:
THANKS!!!!
*G*
Your take on the viability of different systems to achieve results is spot on IMHO!
And Happy Birthday, Ms. Hamsher, many more to you and yours. May all your chocolate cake be YOURS!!! Let the poodles bake their own! ;-)
jayt @ 54
Ya know, I was with you all the way.
Until I thought, I wonder if this is a test of the court’s which we KNOW are stacked, then Congress unveils some means of dealing with it all as a coup attempt and nails all the evil ones.
But then I woke up and realized, I was dreaming and I’m as wracked and confused as I was before.
Here’s hoping ’something’ works?
Redshift @ 113
Red, I too would have thought that a VERY profitable UPPER MIDDLE CLASS working wage, and pride in serving one’s country, would be incentive enough for any government worker to excel at their tasks . . . . ;-)
LibertyLee @ 88
well, I had to leave and haven’t had a chance to come back till this thread is long old
“libery lee”, nor is there a “constitutional right” to drink water, nor have a road or public water.
commons have nothing to do with constitutional “rights” commons are the common needs of society to move forward
again, you are hypnotized by that non existant “liberal” media
corporations try to make believe they don’t rely on “the commons” but they rely on them more then we do
where would corporations be without roads, water, educated populace, sick polulace?
where would corporations be withut money, (another commons), without the army to protect their property, without courts to protect their intelectual property, without the police
the commons are the oommon needs that are required to move forward
private industry is the least efficient and running the commons because they put profit above service, they price according to need not according to margins
too late I suppose for you to read though, this thread is long old
mui @ 143
Um, BILLIONS!!! I believe. And you are SPOT ON with the rest . . . ;-)
AJ @ 9
LibertyLee @ 174
My point was Chicago and France both had power generation problems the French with their Nuclear Plants (which I Oppose) can generate a lot more power than we could and they still couldn’t handle the demand for power. Now if the Government causes the global warming that leads to heat deaths then they are responsible for paying my AC bill (once I get AC again). Is it telling people how to live by providing healthcare?
larue @ 186
I corrected myself later. I don’t want to be accused of overstating I guess ;-)
Well i would like to know whether the government is been providing the children’s with all the medical claims and benefits. And whether the children’s families are benefited with those schemes. I wanted to hear from these republicans why are they blocking health care to kids!