One of the most pernicious and popular soundbites being exploited these days is the denigration of “partisanship.” When it comes out of the mouths of Republicans who perfected the art of soulless political grandstanding in the 90s, it’s hard enough to take. It’s even tougher to stomach when it comes from George Bush with his thorough devotion to Karl Rove (who needs no better reason to sabotage national security and flagrantly violate the law than the fact that someone is a Democrat). Then there are the useful idiots like Sam Waterston and the Unity ‘08 nuts who really just don’t know what they’re talking about.
But people like Joe Lieberman (and his protege Barack Obama) who consistently indulge this frame ought to know that sometimes the right thing to do is to acknowledge that the other side cannot be bargained with, that no negotiation is possible, that what you’re up against is just wrong and it’s incumbent upon people of conscience to draw a line in the sand and say “enough.” That too is partisanship, and they need to stop decrying it just because it focus groups well with people sick of the GOP and their bully tactics. Partisanship in fact has a glorious history.
To backtrack just a bit, I arrived in the DC area about three weeks ago with one of my closest friends Linda M whom many people met at YK last year. Linda is the child of holocaust survivors. One of the things she wanted to do when she got here was go to the US Holocaust Museum, and we did. It was an extremely rewarding experience and I was so grateful to be able to share it with her but let me tell you, the only thing tougher than going through the Holocaust Museum is doing it with someone who has lived in its aftermath their entire life.
Every time we turned the corner there was something else that was right out of her parents’ past. A photo mural of Hungarians arriving at Auschwitz in 1944 told the story of her father, who stepped off a train at the age of 17 with no knowledge of what was going on. He was immediately separated from his family and asked someone where he could find them. The man pointed to the smoke billowing out of the smokestack and said “there’s your family. You’re young and strong. You’re going to have to fight to live.”
Linda was strong throughout, never broke down even as she steeled herself to step on the train like the one that carried her father to Auschwitz and tried to imagine what his experience must have been like. At one point we came upon one of the cement slabs where the gold teeth were extracted from the corpses before they went to the ovens. As one of the few Hungarians to survive Auschwitz because he was indeed young and strong, there were many things her father had to do that she knew about and this was one of them. She often wonders what he did not tell her.
We were there for five hours. I was still recovering from from chemo 5 days before so every once in a while I had to sit down and rest not only from the physical toll but also from the difficulty of staring into the hollow, hopeless faces of genocide for so long. It wasn’t exactly possible to start tapping my watch to hurry things along so I was writing my blogmates on my Treo to ask them to cover for me when Linda came around the corner crying.
“The partisans! It’s the partisans! They have a wall on the partisans!” Tears were streaming down her face as she grabbed me and pulled me into a section of the museum that was unlike any other we had been to. The faces were tired but full of hope, brave and invigorated and fueled with the fire of the fight. I’d heard Linda’s mom, recently deceased, was a member of the Jewish Partisans in Russia but I confess I really did not know their history up until then.
It was a glorious and awe inspiring tale:
Some Jews who managed to escape from ghettos and camps formed their own fighting units. These fighters, or partisans, were concentrated in densely wooded areas. A large group of partisans in occupied Soviet territory hid in a forest near the Lithuanian capital of Vilna. They were able to derail hundreds of trains and kill over 3,000 German soldiers.
Life as a partisan in the forest was difficult. People had to move from place to place to avoid discovery, raid farmers’ food supplies to eat, and try to survive the winter in flimsy shelters built from logs and branches. In some places, partisans received assistance from local villagers, but more often they could not count on help, partly because of widespread antisemitism, partly because of people’s fears of being severely punished for helping. The partisans lived in constant danger of local informers revealing their whereabouts to the Germans.
Many Jews participated in the partisan units formed in France and Italy to help regular Allied forces defeat German forces. They forged documents and identity cards, printed anti-Nazi leaflets, and assassinated collaborators.
Lieberman considers his refusal to criticize Republicans a reflection of the fact that he is above “partisan bickering,” but really it’s just collaboration with those who have gone utterly rogue and lawless. It’s an excuse to do their bidding for personal political gain. And with all due respect to Barack Obama, about whom there are many things to admire, the “pox on both your houses” messaging he so frequently invokes whether he is promoting himself or criticizing this administration does not do justice to those who have steadfastly fought the battle to hold George Bush, Dick Cheney and their criminal cabal accountable. Yes, we’re partisans.
So the next time someone starts throwing around blanket condemnations of all “partisanship,” be suspicious. And remind them that this too is what it means to be a partisan:
Twenty-three-year-old Hannah Senesh, a Hungarian Jew who emigrated to Palestine in 1939, was one of the thirty-two Palestinian parachutists the British dropped behind German lines to organize resistance and rescue efforts. Before crossing the border in Hungary on June 7, 1944, to warn Hungarian Jews about the extermination camps, Senesh, a poet, handed a poem to one of her companions. It ended with these lines: “Blessed is the heart with strength to stop its beating for honor’s sake. Blessed is the match consumed in kindling flame.” Senesh was captured the next day and executed as a traitor to Hungary.
The need to fight right now to restore the Constitution and end the war is strong, and that means some people are going to have to take a stand against a ruthless and intractable opponent. We need to rally behind them and acknowledge their heroism rather than stand back and allow others to tear them down as “partisans” for their willingness to do so.
Because sometimes fighting is the right thing to do.
I’m proud to be a partisan.
(photo of Yugoslav partisans with Jewish parachutists from Palestine. Yugoslavia, 1944, from the USHMM.)
Related posts:
- Hey John Nichols: Pointing Out That Fox News is Partisan Isn’t “Whining”
- Late Night: It’s The False Equivalencies, Stupid.
- Dick Cheney: I’m Proud I Tortured to Protect Our Country But Not Our Allies
- David Neiwert Should Be On TV Talking About the Shooting
- At the Holocaust Museum: American Heroes, American Union Members





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

zed?
Zed
Finally, after two dos today…
Madness.
Re: Sam Waterston:
Yep. I watched him on Hardball last night and again on Morning Joe this morning. He most certainly didn’t know what the f*ck he was talking about. There’s so much incredible drivel on cable MSM these days, stuff that years ago I used to gobble up uncritically. Thank God for the Internets, the blogosphere, and specifically, to FDL, where I’ve been getting educated especially in domestic US politics.
Jane. I have to agree, the toughest part to get thru is the rail car. it was truly haunting. I’m proud to be a partisan, too.
I’m a partisan also. I was called on it by a so-called “independent” (who nonetheless spouted the R’s talking points, believed the Swift Boat Liars, etc.) by someone who was trying to insult me. My reply was not only that I was not insulted, but that the whole idea of Liebermanesque comity was not going to change our nation. (Did I mention that my acquaintance said I should emulate Lieberman? Heh.)
Barack Obama is no Lieberman, but he needs to show a lot more fight, as far as I’m concerned, if he thinks he’s going to win the nomination.
Andy
A group of partisans take out their enemy at the end of Bertolucci’s “The Conformist”. Significant film, to be sure.
Jane, your blog made me cry. Yes, this is the day, this the time to be partisan. Partisan for America, partisan for the Constitution, partisan to be in the face of those who would usurp the freedoms our forefathers died to win and preserve. Make your choice: I’ve made mine. Progressive forever.
Beautiful post, Jane. Happy birthday.
What an excellent post Jane. Tremendous. I too am proud to be partisan.
“Joe Lieberman (and his protege Barak Obama)”
Leaving aside the failure to spell the man’s name correctly, this is rather an extreme slur against the Senator from Illinois. To suggest that Obama is some kind of Lieberman wannabe simply because he has chosen a somewhat ecumenical frame for his more vague pronouncements is unfair. Lieberman is a ceaselessly war-supporting hack who defends basically everything that Bush does, and does so dishonestly; he uses the conceit of non-partisanship as a cover for these activities. Obama has perfectly sound views on the issues — even if he’s not quite as bold on some of them as I would like him to be — and clearly does not support Bush or the goddamn war; he uses a touchy-feely high-minded “let’s get beyond small-minded politics” frame. BFD. How that makes him a Lieberman protege I do not see. Your basic point — that we, and the candidates we support — should not be afraid to disagree strenuously with dangerous lunatics such as the leaders of the modern Republican party is quite sound. Why muddy it up with a gratuitous and unsupportable (and completely unsupported) swipe at Obama. Is Firedoglake already a Hillary stalking-horse?
Thank you for including Obama in this discussion.
His desire for non-partisanship helped to contribute to the continuation of Joe Lieberman as a senator (I use a lower case because I will never accord him the respect that that office carries).
Calling the other side “partisan” in a negative way is simply a matter of convenience. We always have to remember that the Republicans don’t have a conscience and don’t play fair. Bush ran in 2000 on his bipartisan work in Texas (a matter of necessity), and picked up a lot of independent and swing voters that way. But from day one in office with a republican congress there wasn’t even a second of bipartisan effort.
So now the tide has turned. With a democratic congress we’re hearing “partisan” and “political” in every sentence, and the focus is on executive power and privilege. The clearly partisan obstructionist efforts of the senate republicans to filibuster are ignored or misrepresented, and the context that the democrats didn’t use these tactics nearly often enough (in our view) is never provided.
JH is exactly right. There’s a time, when an administration or political party is lawless and out of control in trying to hold onto power and hide criminality, that the partisans on the other side have to stand up and take action.
I think a ‘partisan’ became an ‘insurgent’ during the 1970s. If our government was supplying the weapons, training, etc. they became ‘freedom fighters’.
Partisans are motivated by land, namely the land under their feet, which used to belong to them, but doesn’t anymore. The way the word is used in an entirely political sense these days, really separates it, almost completely, from what it meant to an empire running short on will after years of pissing into the wind, trying to hold dominion over people who were willing to fight dirty for as long as it took.
I’d like to see the violence in Iraq attributed to “partisan elements”, but the term in that context is dead as far as I can tell. Any politician who uses “bi-partisan” twice in one minute, is someone I’ll quickly grow tired of.
I used to think of myself as “independent” even though I have voted Democratic almost exclusively my entire life. But when the Supreme Court handed the government over to Bush by fiat, I became a fiercely partisan Democrat. I’m convinced that the “independent middle” group of voters, much fought over during the 1990s, don’t exist in any large number anymore. It’s a myth and about the only ones thinking of themselves as independents are disaffected republicans who are repulsed by the mafia their political party has turned into.
How is it we’ve gone from partisans being the most revered groups from the days of WWII to them being smeared and derided by the GOP criminal organization? The answer is self-evident, the GOP wants to destroy our free society and cling to power forever, while we fight for the principles of democracy and life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
By the way, BBC Radio has a story on how Prescott Bush attempted a fascist coup of the US government.
Jane:
The tumescent part about the Holocaust Museum and Auschwitz:
Primo Levi wrote one of the most powerful books I ever read about Auschwitz: The Drowned and the Saved.
Happy birthday and many happy returns from the officers of the Connecticut for Lieberman Party!!!
Sorry, but Jane is correct. Obama spouts “Joe Lieberman non-partisanship” all of the time – in fact, to hear him speak makes me wonder what party he really belongs to. Obama is a young version of Lieberman and you know how well that has turned out!
Sebastian Dangerfield @ 12
Against the rules, I touched the rail car because it wasn’t enough to see it.
The experience physically affected me for hours. I had been psychically struck by lightning.
What an amazing piece of writing Jane. I hope you leave this post at the top for a few hours, at the very least.
I suppose I would call myself a partisan. A radical partisan.
Interesting comparison you make here. When one thinks of the Iraq today then- by all standards of logic- the role of Partisans fighting the occupation is for the Iraqi resistance. Also interesting is the wording. Today the fighters against occupation are called terrorist. Partisans would be todays equivalent since the ways and means are the same. And then again- what is digging in history good for when todays generation is watching criminal wars. Today! (Or- hic Rhodos, hic salta).
Feliz Cumpleanos, Jane!
What a beautiful, inspiring post…and a gorgeous bit of writing.
I, too, am proud to be a partisan, and we partisans are fighting a guerrilla war on sites like FDL, and DKos, against the usurpation of our democracy.
Gracias!!
Damn, thats a powerful post.
Brought a tear to this old bastards eye.
I am a partisan, always have been, now that I look through that lens.
There is no appeasing the Republicans, it is seen as weakness.
Get in their face,be forceful in your convictions and do not back down.
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!
Count me in.
The first time I ever saw the name of the town my father came from on a map was at the Holocaust Museum. It was a map of the towns where there was a Jewish getto that had been obliterated. My father and his family left eastern Europe in 1923 before all hell broke loose and came to Cuba before entering the US in 1927.
My father’s family was mainly Orthodox Jews. Those who remain are no longer orthodox but have become suburban Jewish bigots and repigs. I haven’t spoken to any of them since my father’s funeral 12 years ago. One of them flew into Chicago to represent “the family”, rented a car to go from the airport to the cemetery and then drove back to the airport. That was it. It all mystifies me.
I’m a partisan, progressive, liberal and Democrat and PROUD of it. The rest of them can wallow in their greed and mendacity. I want none of it.
Sebastian Dangerfield @ 12
Your spelling is better than your history. Obama’s mentor when he came to the Senate was Joe Lieberman. That’s just a fact.
Oh my goodness, Jane, your post gave me chills. As a relative of Holocaust victims, it also made me cry.
Thank you.
Great Post, Jane — Happy Birthday from a fellow Partisan.
Partisans of Vilna
My own jury is still out on Obama. I despise Joe Lieberman, but I do not despise Barack Obama.
1,588 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher:
Great post…every Jewish person in the US should go to the Holocaust Museum (as well as non-Jewish folk)for the reminder of many of history’s truth’s and to be confronted with today’s great irony of history. The solution to our immediate political problem in the US may very well rest in the hands of that block of voters who are most subjected and vulnerable to the power of A*P*C. Indeed, a peaceful solution to the over-ridding problem of the middle east and a positive role for the USA in such a solution may very well rest with that same block of voters.
The first great irony of history today is Israel’s tactics in Palestine and the second great irony is that Jewish voters in the US must learn from the experience of the holocaust to recognize the monster of fascist politics.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…WE AREN’Y GUNNA GIVE UP!!
Lieberman and Obama’s bipartisanship meme is an annoying diversion that saps time and energy away from real issues (the truth, really) such as:
Republicans hold American democracy and its three co-equal branches of government in contempt and they now govern America by means of a unitary executive or dictatorship.
There can be no bipartisanship or why can’t we all just get along or its the fault of both parties when our democracy is under attack by one Republican party.
I hate hearing that crap from Barack Obama. I expect it from the creep Lieberman and media creeps like Broder, Mathews, Russert, Brooks and 95 percent of the rest of them.
KBR and their slaves – Unbelievable:
http://www.iraqslogger.com/ind…..es_Persist
Praise Be. At this stage of our nation’s history, resistance to King George and his brainless followers is the only honorable stand to make. But more than mere passive resistance is required. Bush, et al., wipe their ass with the Constitution on a daily basis and shove it in the face of anyone who would question them or their tactics. (Lieberman’s nose is the only thing that gets in the way when he does it). How about a perp-walk of AG gonzales for starters.
Very touching post Jane.
Have a happy happy.
I am a separatist partisan.
Happy birthday, Jane. I’m proud to share the day with you.
Wonderful post.
Sebastian Dangerfield @ 12
Obama has stated that his “mentor” and model for a senator is Lieberman. I will take him at his word on statements such as that and Jane is addressing it quite nicely. Not sure how you get from Jane calling BS on the partisan BS spouted by Lieberman and crew to FDL being a stalking horse for Hillary. Project much?
I too am a partisan and damn proud of it.
Proud to be a partisan – damn proud.
The people who fought Hitler and Mussolini and Franco. Yeah – I’m with them.
And damn fucking proud of it.
kirk murphy @ 38
I second that!!
This hits hard. My only son carries the last of the name of many murdered Hungarian Jews.
I’m staring into space, lost in these thoughts. He explained to me why he doesn’t get more involved in the struggle I’ve joined: I’m just a kid and I can’t do one thing about this.
Just listen to the story, I say. I want you to know what’s going on.
Happy Birthday, Jane. We must tell these stories.
For your listening pleasure L. Cohen The Partisan
They don’t like it when you fight back…too bad, so sad!
Sha @ 19
You’re confusing similar-sounding rhetoric with similar politics . That’s just plain incorrect, sloppy reasoning. (And, the rhetoric is actually different in subtle ways, but never mind that.) There is no meaningful way in which Obama can be tarred as a Lieberman “protege.” Disagree with Obama’s choice of rhetorical tropes, criticize them all you like (the “small politics” trope doesn’t do much for me either), there is no comparing the uses to which such rhetoric is put. Their underlying poitics are so profoundly different that it is fundamentally unfair to lump Obama in with a putz like Lieberman.
Great piece. I am often reminded about the famous quote that goes something like “there is a special place in hell for those that seek nuetrality in a time of crisis.” I can’t recall who said it, but this is surely a time of crisis in our country. When one side lies, commits crimes and trys to destroy those that respect the law or want to engage in fair debate, you have to fight those people with all you have. The Bush Administration and it’s GOP enablers and the weak sheepish opposition need to be held to account. In some ways, I am angrier at the DEMs because most of them do not have the courage to do WHAT THEY KNOW IS RIGHT.
Motive / Le Chant des Partisans, (motivated) theme song from the French resistance, re-interpreted by Franco-North African group Zebda.
Viva Partisanship!!
Awesome post Jane. A birthday gift back to us.
What great post. I can only add how proud I am to join you as a partisan.
I’m not sold on Obama, but I’m not completely turned off either.
What causes me greatest concern is that he would be a lousy VP nominee — for many of the same reasons Lieberman was a lousy VP nominee.
Obama won’t play second fiddle to anyone, and as a Veep he’d be undercutting the candidate at the top of the ticket.
Obama is for Obama — is he also for us?
Too busy to comment for ages, Jane. But this was some of the most moving and evocative stuff I’ve read in ages.
Hope comes from defiance. I am so glad to see your defiance and Linda’s. It makes me glad to seek and find my own small moments of triumph over evil.
Thanks and happy birthday. God grant you many more.
OT but for any old movie fans To Have and Have Not is just starting on TCM.
Or maybe it’s not totally off topic being that it deals with partisans…
LS @ 33
can;t say i am surprised.
1,588 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Sabastian Dangerfield:
“…this is rather an extreme slur against the Senator from Illinois.”
Brother Sebastian, it is not a slur it is the truth. Senator Obama was the protege of one Joe Lieberman when he first came to the Senate…I think I was the first to call Obama “the Black Joe Lieberman.” So how do ya like them apples, friend?
KEEP THE FAITH AND KNOW WHO THE ENEMY IS!!
At the holocaust the space with the tower of photographs of people who once lived in one small shtetl–and the photographs are also displayed in the shape of a chimney…I have a Holocaust survivor friend who simply says of his experiences during the war, “Words won’t speak.”
oops–I meant the space at the holocaust museum…
A favorite resistance movie of mine is the Burt Lancaster flick called “The Train”.
OT:
Korean hostage killed by Taliban
AP – 36 minutes ago KABUL, Afghanistan – Afghan police discovered the bullet-riddled body of a South Korean hostage Wednesday as the Taliban released eight other captives who were taken to a U.S. military base, officials said.
I have a feeling that “Maryam” from the other day would want to puke at seeing firedoglakers comparing their acts of “partisan” opposition to those who engage in irregular armed resistance to a military occupation.
Thank you Jane for addressing this subject. Your birthday, our present. On message boards, repubs who run out of logical argument turn to calling liberals partisan as if it’s a real shame. I tell them I’ll quit being partisan when their party cleans out its criminals and learns to work with liberals and not shut us out of the process. You’d think they’d get it, but no.
dakine01 @ 50
“Ever get stung by a dead bee”, Dubya?
proudly partisan and glad for it.
good post and I was equally touched touring the museum in DC. the shocker was that the “passport” of the person I was given as a token on entrance had my initials and her father was a baker, just as my grandfather from galicia was a baker. He and my grandmother escaped, but the side of the family that was doing well stayed and went up in smoke.
first they came for arabs and I was not an arab…
I had the privilege of hearing Barney Frank speak at our county Jefferson-Jackson Dinner on Sunday, and his subject was partisanship. He, too spoke of the many things partisanship has accomplished, and how he was once not very partisan, but has become more partisan as the GOP has become more extreme.
About 40% favor censure of Bush — Rasmussen
Partisan audiophiles:
Bella Ciao – by Chumbawamba
“Studio version of live favourite “Bella Ciao” recorded and put up here in the wake of the death of Carlo Giuliani in Genoa.”
Oh – my favorite Chumba song for Lieberman/Obama has a lovely refrain:
“Can’t eat with your mouth full of shit?
Can’t eat with your mouth full of shit?
Do something about it.
You think you’re God’s gift.
You’re a liar.
I wouldn’t piss on you.
If you were on fire.”
What a great post Jane. Damn right I’m partisan. Now get out there Dems, do your duty and impeach! People have given their lives standing up for what is right, impeachment seems so little to ask in comparison.
There was another little Partisan Army in Yugoslavia.
Wow….
VERY powerful article Jane…
Did someone slip some Krypton in your birthday cake ??
Of course you are right.. this “anti-partisanship” meme is just a stalling tactic. When the Dems took over this past January, I was hoping they would treat the Rethugs the same way they were treated the last 12 years.. I have only just now starting seeing evidence of a Dem backbone.
WE need to force our Dem reps to pursue this obvious coup attempt with the same zeal the rethugs went after Clinton personal life..
Clinton soiled a blue dress..
Dubya has permanently stained our country and murdered upwards of a million people.. While trying to topple OUR government.
Which offender is more impeachable ??
BTW..
HAPPY BIRTHDAY {{{{{{{{{{JANE}}}}}}}}}} !!!
Sebastian Dangerfield @ 12…
Jane and others have already well defended my opinion of Obama as a clone of Joe Lieberman.
The point is that whenever Obama AND Lieberman can try and neutralize meaningful positions, they do so in the spirit of “bi-partisanship” And when they do, they end up with mush. And, they position those of us who want/desire/beg for progressive results as evil partisans. And that plays right into the likes of Bill O’Reilly and friends.
I’m a partisan Progressive and very proud of that!
There can be no peace with these people. The Republican mindset is one that is continuously at war with each other, us, and the principles of our Nation. It would be irresponsible for us not to fight them with everything we have.
The Powell Doctrine applies here. Use every resource and tool to achieve overwhelming force against the enemy until you force them to capitulate completely. They know no other way of dealing with the world than force, so force they shall have.
-ck- @ 49
He is not! E.g. he is against Federally mandated Universal Health Coverage (is he in thrall to big pharma like his mentor Joe?). I was horrified when I heard his answer to that question on the youtube debate. I also don’t trust the way he wears his “faith” on his sleeve. We have had enough of that, (from both Lieberliar and Shrub) thank you very much.
Jane, your outdoing yourself today. Thank you so much for your good work.
My father, uncles and many cousins on both sides of my family saw action in Europe against the Nazis. All these guys are gone now. They were partisans for fairness. And I am a partisan in favor of justice and the underdog.
Right now, we at FDL and many others in Leftblogostan are the early twenty-first century version of PAFs. (Think Spanish Civil War and the Abraham Lincoln Brigade)
oh and the other thing that really struck me was the section on Nazi propaganda and how the marketed their program of threat to the fatherland, foreign enemies, internal enemies….the big lie repeated.
the museum’s curators understood that mendacity, fanaticism and the big lie were the tools of fascists.
Jane – One of the pieces of antisemitic garbage mythology that came out of WWII was that the Jews would not fight back. Which of course is not true, but the Nazi’s counted on the Jewish community’s traditional position of hunkering down and hoping that whatever horror had descended would go away as long as they kept their heads down. By the time they realized that this was not going to happen with the Nazis, it was too late for millions like my Dad’s family in Russia who were burned to death in a school.
The GOP has succeeded with much the same technique — they’ve bullied us all for so long that we started to do the same thing — hope that they’d eventually go away. Well, guess what, folks, these bullies WON’T go away. They have the bit in their teeth and are doing a very credible job of destroying the basis of the Constitution and our freedoms. Fighting them with everything we have is all we have now. Bi-partisan is a GOP mush word for “cooperate with us because we are going to eviscerate you anyway”. I, for one, refuse to go down without a fight.
I touched my son’s green Darfur bracelet. I looked into his eyes and broke the news of the hundreds of thousands of people our country has killed.
Do you see who we are? I asked.
Woodhall Hollow @ 70
I got that “Harold Ford chill” also…
Jane Hamsher @ 27
I’m well aware of Obama’s having had Lieberman as his “mentor” when he strted out in the Senate. If that was all that you were pointing out with the “protege” label, then I would have had no objection. (Yes, literally speaking the “mentee” to a “mentor” would be a “protege.”) But I take you to be doing something else and perhaps was not entirely clear in my critique. I take you to be saying (as do some elements of the chorus of approval that is the comment section here) implying, suggesting, or insinuating that there is no material difference between Obama’s politics and Lieberman’s, simply because there is a similarity in their rhetoric. And in that sense I thin you are being unfair to Obama.
I don’t want ot overstate my disagreement though. I think Hackworth above put it very well saying (this is my own loose summary) that the whole “rise above the partisanship in Washington” spiel is a rather tired, shopworn bromide that is a distraction from real issues. That Obama feels that it has some marketing appeal is a disappointment to be sure. But to suggest that this makes his politics into Lieberman-style politics — if that’s indeed what you’re suggesting, which I think is hard to deny — lacks any real support.
Jane I visited the Museum last year and it affected me similarly. The parallels are too close to be comfortable. Remember the Nazis came to power in Germany by apparently constitutional means. If there was ever a time to be partisan it is now. Being partisan is the very essence of a working democracy.
We need to recognise though that the US Attys affair, while important,and riveting for us lawyers, is a sideshow when compared with the transformation of the Office of VP and the creation of the Fourth Branch. I seriously believe the USA teeters on the edge of autocracy, and from here across the Atlantic that’s a frightening prospect. Keep being partisan, encourage your lawmakers to be partisan and take your country back from people who play the game of democracy but don’t believe in the substance of democracy.
Bless you, Jane. Thank you.
Jane, this might be my favorite post ever.
beautiful work.
puppethead @ 16
I beg to differ on this point. I am an independent because I don’t ever want to give the Dems the idea that they don’t have to earn my respect and my vote. I am absolutely a progressive lefty, but I don’t ever see myself being a member of the Democratic Party, based on my lifetime of disappoint in their failure to live up to my expectations, much less my hopes.
All the same, I am absolutely partisan. Fighting the good fight is not about party, it is about doing what is right.
I am not turned on by either front runner of my party for president.
The dishonesty of flouncing the non-partisanship or bipartisanship horse is almost as disgusting to me as the pandering to religious voters (aka Christians) that Obama and Hills also espouse.
Semi-OT, but I haven’t had an opportunity to post a couple of other choice quotes from the Barney Frank speech (from memory, so not exact):
(I’m so glad to know that there’s someone up on the Hill who clearly understands that. He said it’s been pretty well known since the Clinton administration.)
and:
1,588 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
I like to think that the consensus politics of FDL is best described as “anti-fascist partisan”. It is another irony of history to say that true bi-partisan politics, indeed true MULTI-partisan politics, involves defining ourselves as anti-fascist first, thus isolating the “bi-partisan” Lieberman, Obama and Clinton politicians.
If you folks recall, the old Norske has been callin’ on the Democratic Party to create an anti-fascist partisan front to isolate the crypto-Nazis and create political space for what’s left of true American conservatives.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION… ~~~EDITED IN MODERATION~~~
newtonusr @ 77
Damn right, I don’t want to hear all that bullshit.
I find Lieberman even more distasteful than Bush.
To combat the current ridicule and scorn that neoconvicts use against those they deem “partisan”….
I think progressives should proudly declare,
“Yes… I am partisan… I am on the side of the American people against the lawless, criminal and corrupt White House.”
Another way to frame it… “I am a partisan patriot.”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 88
Do you prefer dogshit on a stick to pigshit?
By the way, Daniel Craig (the new James Bond) will be starring in a movie based on the experiences of a Jewish partisan coming out some time this year.
Scarecrow @ 63
IIRC, a higher percentage favors impeachment. So why not go for it?
I go out for a bit, come back in, and the first words I hear on the teevee are an attack on “partisanship” uttered by Tony Snow. Clearly, from all that has come about, Karl Rove has thoroughly studied the Nazi tactics.
Whatever happened to the daily affirmation?
My contempt for Joe Lieberman knows no bounds and will never abate.
Restore the traditional role:
Obama for VP in ‘08!
Empty suits everywhere will be placated.
xargaw @ 44
The line we use is “gosh, we tried to be Switzerland and ended up as Belgium” (during a particular nasty bit of family discord)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
Kucinich is the best progressive, but he is a very dark horse.
Amen.
Scarecrow @ 63
The other 60% see nothing wrong with his teeth, but want him removed from office.
Sebastian Dangerfield @ 12
Obama chose Lieberman as his Senate mentor when sworn in. That, by definition, makes him Lieberman’s protege.
I’m proud to be partisan, too. “Do it our way” isn’t compromise. It’s about time folks woke up and realized that’s what Joe Lieberman and Co. are asking.
A Patriotic Partisan Crede –
(parphrasing William Tecumsah Sherman)
The only good Republican is a _________ Republican.
(fill in the blank)
A) Defeated
B) Disgraced
C) Impeached
D) Expelled
E) Convicted
F) All of the Above
G) Other
hackworth @ 96
Yep. The blogosphere must work to make the impossible possible, at least in my lifetime, I hope.
This, over at KOS – Prescott Bush had a plan to overthrow US government for fascism per BBC:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..15392/2530
Toby Wollin @ 75
You’ve said just what I’ve been thinking: these bullies *won’t* go away, and we’re past the time where negotiation is possible (though they don’t truly negotiate either– I’m just talking about negotiation, hypothetically).
Jane – this is a wonderful post. Thank you so much. And Happy Birthday!!
And Redshift – thank you for the Barney Frank paraphrases (I adore Barney). While I loved them all, this one caused me to almost choke on my dinner (the evening version of coffee out my nose):
Barney Frank via Redshift @ 85
-ck- @ 102
former
1,588 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Sebastian Dangerfield:
“I take you to be saying…implying, suggesting or insinuating that there is no material difference between Obama’s politics and Lieberman’s…”
Well brother Sebastian, I don’t know how Jane wants to characterize Obama’s politics but I will say that there ain’t a dime’s worth a difference between Obama’s politics and Joe Lieberman’s. How’s that grab ya…Obama is a political opportunity for certain factions of the oligarchy. Ask Bobby Rush about Obama’s “politics”.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…AND KEEP THE BASTARDS OUTTA MY YARD!!
Me @ 102:
I meant the left blogosphere.
Cujo359 @ 101
exactly. When two people always agree, only one is doing the thinking.
Jane,
A wonderful post. I guess we are the recipients of the birthday presents today.
I’m glad to see you are feeling well enough for a long content rich post.
And, boy, was this some content!
NorskeFlamethrower @ 108
Kick ass and take names bro!
I’ll suffer slings and arrows for this, but this post is maudlin, manipulative treacle, especially coming from the usually profane and witty Jane Hamsher. It’s like the equivalent of “Keyboard Commandoes” for the left, and particularly distasteful when there are actual “partisans” blowing the shit out of American soldiers as we post.
Besides that, the word “partisan” has two entirely separate meanings that bear no relation to each other.
As Liarman’s protege did the Democrat Obama endorse the winner of Connecticut’s Democratic Senatorial primary race? I don’t remember.
Woodhall Hollow @ 70
Well so am I – it’s just a tax that goes directly to the insurance companies. Single payer is the only sane option.
(Don’t worry, Obama is way down my list of favorites.)
Redshift @ 85
I live two towns over from Frank’s district and I’ve had Barny envy for years.
cc in nm @ 107
I like yours best — the power of redemption should never be dismissed.
brendan @ 113
It’s always a good idea to define your terms.
Sebastian, if you like Obama, just say so.
Don’t attack the rest of us for not liking him, because it just makes you look bad. Yes, he has charisma … but so have a lot of conmen and demagogues.
Choosing JoeL for a mentor is a sign of something, but it isn’t a sign of good judgement.
Obama is a good orator, as for content, I’m not hearing anything I’d vote for.
TeddySanFran @ 99
See comment 78 above. It’s not a question of his having taken Lieberman as is “mentor”; it’s the insinuation that Obama’s touchy-feely “rise above the fray” rhetoric means that his politics are really Liebermanian. If my focus on the “protege” portion of the post confused you, please unconfuse. If you’re interested in engaging the actual substance of the critique I’m all ears.
I’m going to delurk, because comparing Obama to Lieberman is a vicious slur. Lieberman put his own personal interests above the Democratic voters of Connecticut. I’ve given money to both Lamont and Obama, proud Democrats. I’ll support Hillary if she gets the nomination. However, some insults are beyond the pale. Back to lurking.
Biodun @ 30
Two different kinds of “nonpartisans,” but both deadly to a progressive future.
-LIEberman is actually a partisan R.
-Obama is too naive to realize that you can’t come to accomodation with true believers. You have to kill them off. (O’Reilly–that is meant as a metaphor for political death.)
I’d like to know how many times the MSM has uttered the word terror or terrorism today. It is reaching a deafening pitch.
My problem with Obama is this and only this: political souffle.
We need more.
re: Liberman relabeling himself as an independant to hide he is really a Republican. I have noticed over the last few years as the Iraq invasion and all of Bush’s policies and ideas have gone south, that alot of former Republicans who voted Bush twice are now begining to call themselves “Libertarians” so that hey can unhook themselves from (being identified with and supporters of) Bush and still consider themselves small government conservatives. This newfound libertarianism seems to be a trend especially among younger conservatives/Republicans. There seems to be a trend in political folk looking for an independant tag to suit their various political purposes. I think partisanship was killed off by Newt Ginrich in the 90’s.
Obama choose to ignore the elected representative of CT democrats by not supporting Ned Lamont.
How can you expect to lead a party when you make a conscious decision to ignore the will of the voters.
It would seem to me that if you truly want to end the war, and you position yourself as being anti war, and the members of the party that you are running to be the presidential candidate of elect the man who had a great deal of influence of changing the dialogue about said war, I would think a TRUE leader would want to stand with such a man, and work to have his support and vote to end the war.
The reason I don’t support Obama is because he said, wrt Iran: “Nothing is off the table.”
Could be smart advance planning to quell the sure-to-come (in fact have already started) neoconvict arrows alledging that Dems aren’t tough on defense, but I didn’t like the sound of it.
Re partisanship.
Important to distinguish between a contest of arms and a contest of ideas.
What is at stake in the U.S. marketplace of ideas is whether good ideas are allowed to fight bad ideas. In a fair fight, good ideas will win. The Founders and Enlightenment philosophers believed this to their core. It’s the proposition underlying the First Amendment,
In a contest of arms, I may abandon reason in response to a need to follow deep animal instincts. I say this based on a year in Vietnam.
In a contest of ideas, I must not abandon reason. Good ideas take hold and thrive only because of their compelling nature.
I believe most people are open to ideas…at least ideas not served up with heavy helping of anger or contempt.
Partisanship is their way of crying because they are going to have legal problems.
we can brook no more shit from these scum. they will enjoy prison. let us make sure that they go there.
Bustednuckles @ 120
Best summary yet.
I sincerely do not expect Obama to be the Democratic candidate, but if he is, I cannot immagine who else I would vote for.
The choice of the mainstream media is apparently either Obama or Hillary. Is that not reason enough to be skeptical of both?
Agreed. These people cannot be reasoned with—they must be crushed. Otherwise they crawl back to damage us more (see: Abrams, Poindexter, Negroponte, et al.) I’ve lost all patience, and am even tempted to use their own “laws” against them.
LS @ 124
Time again for my perspective on the subject. Terrorism is like acne. It is always with us. It does not strike everyone, or everywhere. It is not an existential threat. It rarely kills anyone (though everyone eventually dies of acne/terrorism if they don’t die of something else first). To control it, one must take all of the known precautions (keep your face clean & moisturized, manage your diet; secure your borders, harden your targets) and be mindful of its potential attack (if you’re susceptible, visit the dermatologist regularly; have smart & knowledgeable undercover agents & prosecutors). From time to time there’s an outbreak, at which point stronger action is required (antibiotics; war).
Mr. Dangerfield, I don’t think you’re going to get any respect…
Maybe if you’d read some of the other threads you’d discover that many of us don’t support Hillary Clinton. Personally, I favor Edwards.
Implying that everyone here is in favor of Hillary because they’re not impressed with Obama is just stupid.
eCAHNomics @ 134
Stridex pads anyone?
brendan @ 113
I call BULLSHIT! Speaking from the heart is not maudlin, nor is it manipulative. Fun and clever posts are fun, and I enjoy them, but this post is kick-ass writing and I hope to see more of it.
oldtree @ 130
Like I said yesterday, the shriller people like BillO and Tony Snow become, the brighter the signs of progress and success in the right direction. “I’m melting…melting!” That kind of shrillness.
hackworth @ 113
No – he said he endorsed Ned but he went out of his way to stay out of the state of CT – even though he was in NYC for a book signing – had a free day in between – and then went to Boston to campaign for the Dem for governor.
So anyone who says he supported Ned is citing
Cripes, almost forgot. Happy Birthday, Jane, and that’s a wonderful post. Compromise and reaching agreement are the hallmarks of our system when it’s working, but when it’s not working it’s important to remember what the Jews had to learn during WWII. For that matter, it’s something some other partisans had to get across to people in the 18th Century.
LS @ 123
The obedient Wurlitzer.
Media is publishing the official version.
FDL is samizdat.
“partisan” is the new GOP epithet, after “liberal”
The problem for the GOP with their branding campaign is that it works–they are the party of “stay the course” when everyone else is ready to get out.
I’m not for Hillary. I like Al Gore (though the one sticking point for me is that he did show poor judgment when he chose Joe L. as his running mate in ‘00!).
marshen @ 126
If so, out of the frying pan into the fire. Organized libertarians, if NYC group is representative, are real true believers, OTT. The head of the NYC group has let Colbert make fun of him twice that I know of.
sorry – my finger hit the wrong key….
Anyone who says Obama supported Ned is citing
v e r y q u i e t
support but a very loud avoidance of the actual candidate…e.g, he supported Holy Joe in the general election.
With no offense intended, my greatest concern re the upcoming election is that the corporate media has already chosen Hillary or Obama as our candidate… and I’m not sure either could win.
I’m definitely an Edwards supporter… but corporate media is already downplaying his Iowa advantage… it is clear who the CM will select for the Dem nom.
Of course, that is assuming (big assumption) that we could wrest an honest election from the neoconvicts.
I’m going to read comments now but I have to say this post is one of the greatest pieces I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading ANYWHERE.
Birthday magic, eh Jane ?
GordonM @ 115
I am not talking about any kind of health insurance program which goes to any insurance company. I am talking about tax-payer funded, govt managed health care, as in Canada, the UK, France, etc, etc, etc. None of the candidates, other than Kucinich gets this, but Obama is behind both Edwards and Clinton in that he does not even support Universal Health Coverage of any kind. It may be that we have to go with single payer or some such for a period (long enough to figure out that it would be cheaper to take the profit driven insurance companies out of the game altogether) but the 1st step is health coverage for EVERYONE, period.
The Republican radicals have continually pushed this country to the right, while their pundit friends call for a return to the glorious past that never was where most everyone was in the “center.” They declare that the center is always magically halfway between where the Democrats and the Republicans are, ensuring that if we compromise with their new right-shifted position, the new “center” will be halfway between our compromise and their original position.
The only thing that will change this is an greater partisan push in the opposite direction.
mack @ 130
I agree. However imperfect and/or infuriating the democratic candidate, to vote for anyone else would be insane.
Nice. Speaking of Nazis:
The FBI is taking cues from the CIA to recruit thousands of covert informants in the United States as part of a sprawling effort to boost its intelligence capabilities.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/015815.php
Jane, this is so touching and inspiring.
Thank you for the Holocaust Museum remembrance and the call for partisanship.
I know I am a partisan yet still feel what I do is so little even though it takes so much time and energy. I guess am fighting them over here so we don’t have to fight them over there.
happy birthday, and many more !
eCAHNomics @ 122
I know he’s had his hiccups, and he definitely should not have chosen Lieberman as his mentor. That might prove fatal perhaps, depending on what he does in the next several months. The reason my jury is still out on Obama is his education and all he’s been exposed to in Hawaii, Indonesia, New Haven, New York, and his history of community organizing in inner-city Chicago, and his promise to recalibrate US politics beyond a baby-boom Vietnam era paradigm.
Now with all that, I think, he should be able to pull off his promise. If he doesn’t and can’t, then that’s his shortcoming. But I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. There are many hoping that he can move us beyond racial politics, even just by a little.
texB @ 136
I had to look up Stridex pads so I knew what you were talking about. (In my teenage years the word pad was associated with only another application.) But Stridex pads could well be a better strategy against terrorism than what W is doing. We could give them to pimply Arab youths so they became less mad at the
worldU.S.Here’s a diary by Tim Tagaris, who worked on Ned’s campaign about who demonstrated their support.
Tim Tagaris Summary of Who Helped Ned
Isn’t it strange that the media says that the guy who was forewarned on August 8 about the possibility… Reading my pet goat and stared blankly into a camera and declared a Holy GWOT a Crusade and attacked the wrong country is the best guy to protect our children (and is they learning)?
Tim @ 147
I second Tim. This post has taken my breath away. To think it is Jane’s birthday and yet she is the one giving us this beautiful gift- a gift of eloquent words and powerful ideas.
Masterful, Jane.
Woodhall Hollow @ 148
Ah, but Coverage implies Insurance.
We want a candidate who advocates and supports Universal Health Care.
Redshift @ 149
Overton
Brisingamen @ 159
Amen!
OK my comment about semantics.
Partisan is a loaded word and I think I get what Jane is saying. I think one word that possibly hasn’t been twisted into aforementioned mobius strips is (perhaps?) Underground. As in the French Underground, which might be a form of Partisan that Jane is illustrating. Am i getting it? I dunno.
I think blogs are still somewhat Underground, doing the right thing, saving people or causes or what have you because it’s the right thing to do. They are life-affirming.
Is this too over the top?
Woodhall Hollow @ 137
I agree, we are staring into the abyss, just like Germany 1933. I could happen here. All you need to do is listen to the stabbed in the back talk.
Woodhall Hollow @ 137
Like I said, forward it to “Maryam”. I’m sure she’ll be moved to shed a big, rolling teardrop at the sacrifices of our “partisans”.
happy birthday, dear Jane !
Steve-AR @163.
Oh, brother.
Just popped in to say “Happy Birthday” Ms Hampsher, and hello to the Molly Mcguire’s who trying to shove as many monkey wrenches into the political machine of the GOP, as necessary stop it.
mack @ 94
my contempt for Joe Lieberman is nourished daily, even though it may fail to express itself.
Any part of partisan that stands up against this Monarchy in the making is healthy. Examples like the enhancement of EO13303 last Thursday help enforce Monarchy by fiat, and help retain his cherished handle of “I am a war President.” One shouldn’t forget that he needed that title to instill the damage not yet complete, and his neocons planned this war before he was even elected.
Taking some of the luster out of Obama’s polish is also healthy, regardless of the pain. I don’t know if it has been discussed here at FDL, but a worthy piece by Pierre Tristam at CommonDreams.org puts another scratch in the shine.
I don’t think Obama is a great orator.
He talks in paragraphs and is halting… it
turns me off…
brendan @ 166
Brendan, have you been paying any attention to what the Bush Junta has been doing domestically for the last 6 years? His war crimes in Iraq are not his only crimes. Not by a long shot.
albert fall @ 141
Calling the kettle black is basically what swiftboating was: obscuring their own glaring fault by loudly and endless attributing it to the other side. This tactic needs to be exposed, in language simple enough for the MSM.
brendan @ 164
Brendan – your feelings are palpable. Got it.
“Collaborator” “Collaborates”, as in “Senator So-and-so ‘collaborates’ with the present Administration.” That’s a terribly powerful word that summons up Quisling, Vichy, Pilate … but you’re right, Jane: sometimes you have to call things by their right name.
Why we need MORE Left Wing Partisanship –
The Overton Window, via Corrente
Brendan #113, I agree with you. As much as I love Jane and all the firepups, there is a big difference between those who suffered and fought in a terrible war, and we who sit in our air-conditioned offices and homes, occasionally emailing our congresspersons.
I remain a determined lefty, but I’m not a warrior like those brave souls, and would not tarnish their memory by comparing myself to them.
spurious @ 171
Exactly. I’ve written a couple of posts about how the most partisan, political administration in US history, continually trashes Dems (which is dutifully played out on the corp media wurlitzer ad nauseum) for being, guess what?…. partisan and political!
That’s why I say Dems should proudly declare “Yes, I am partisan… I am for the American people who are being lied to by the corrupt White House.”
This democrat I know who is much more conservative than I read Obama’s latest book. He loved it – So much so that he
read Obama’s first book. He hated it. He said that there are things in that book that the Republican Slime Machine will use to slice and dice the good Obama’s presidential hopes.
spurious @ 172
Isn’t it a shame how far into the depths of darkness the heirs of Mencken and Murrow have fallen?
Bay State Librul @ 170
I don’t get the thrill; looking for lightning to strike during YK, my first chance to see him in person. Otherwise, not so much. And I’m very tired of people saying that debates aren’t his format. You come to play: play the game, I say.
And does anyone doubt RGJoe would play a significant role in an Obama Administration? “Mentor” means something. Do we really want another President in thrall to this insane Nutmeg natterer whose interests are not America’s?
I don’t.
merciless @ 176
but, to be inspired by them…
Whoops misspelled Maguire, my bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Maguires
The Lieberman/Obama connection is a revelation. It will be useful info as he puts out his plans for the country. It means that I’ll take everything he says with a Lieberman wink.
Ms. Hamsher,
Just wanted to add my thanks for a beautifully written piece. Oh, and happy birthday; with many, many more to follow:)
“protege” means protected in French.
Woodhall Hollow @ 171
Yes. Point taken. Comparisons to the Nazi seizure of power are fair. Now, can we stop comparising FDL political opposition to that junta to the armed opposition of people whose homes, cities and families were turned to ash?
-ck- @ 175
First, we need a Left Wing party..
punaise @ 185
How perfect.
It is , after all, a racket.
brendan @ 185
just give ‘em a little more time, they’re not finished yet.
brendan @ 113
first off, great post jane. second, i agree wholeheartedly that we should embrace the differences between the republicans (and the repub-lite democrats) and the progressive believers… screw em, they don’t deserve to even sit on the same table, based on their track record- they need to be out in the wilderness. FOREVER.
that being said, the partisans of ideas (and acting to fight for those ideas) are distinct from the original use of partisan, and although it good to embrace the original meaning, there is a danger of being another version of the 101st flying keyboard nonsense…yes, this is a battle with mortal stakes, but there is a real war going on, and using the language of war sounds frivolous.
side note: the left may be partisans, but the right are pundits
surrogates and servants of empire.
Happy Birthday, Jane!
And thanks for this post — and a special thanks for the remarks about Sam Waterston and the “Unity” blatherers.
When I first saw Waterston ramble on about his “make nice” theory of politics, I immediately thought “So, we split the difference between full-bore fascists, on the one hand, and sane citizens, on the other?” How does that work, exactly? Refusing to accept fascism is what defines a citizen as sane, to begin with. Making peace with traitors to the Constitution still leaves you without the Constitution to guide you. What a joke!
And thanks to the commenter who tipped us to what’s playing on TCM right now. I just enjoyed once more the wonderfulness of Hoagy Carmichael singing to his own piano-playing thanks to that heads-up. And To Have and Have Not is a lovely anti-fascist film, good for remembering what’s good in our history.
While I never had the opportunity to see the Holocause Museum in this country, I did spend a good bit of time in the museum at Dachau Concentration Camp. It was devastating, something I’ll never forget my whole life. Everyone needs to know where fascism ineluctably leads.
cancer_cures @ 186
Kucinich and Elizabeth Edwards..)
Woodhall Hollow @ 171
The person who mentions the Hitler comparison loses the argument. Not an evaluation of the truth of the arguement, just an observation.
Having said that, I agree that the U.S. is surprisingly close. I’ve listened to a college course on Hitler’s Empire about 6 times (from The Teaching Company.) The kinds of manipulations in the between W & Hitler are eerily similar, enough to make my wonder how many times Rove listened to the same course. Then, the manipulation of the voting mechanism in Weimar Germany was key to gainng power. IIRC, Hitler won around 35% of the vote in the election before he became Chancellor. Plenty of other manipulations of the system, just like W. Worked every angle.
Then the military actions, one after another. The only difference between Hitler & W on that score is that Hitler won his wars.
And finally, the German people had a better excuse than the Americans. They had lost a brutal war, suffered brutal hyperinflation, and all sorts of other trials & tribulations. When Hitler came along & restored Germany to world prominence (remember 1936 Olympics), who in that country could not support him? The only excuse Americans have is one terrorist attack.
So maybe I’ve lost the argument by detailing the comparison, but there it is.
Redshift @ 62
Oh my goodness, please tell me there is a video of that speech somewhere on the intertubes. I loves me some Barney Frank.
Mrs. K8 @ 191
been there, seen that, agreed.
Jane you’re bringing tears to my eyes. Thanks for a powerfully moving post.
And BTW, Jane, you are one of my heroes. Happy Birthday, and rock on.
brendan @ 186
I take your point, but that was not my reading of Jane’s post. Rather, it was that we should embrace the postive meaning of the word “partisan” which like another honorable word, “liberal,” is being tarnished by the GOP. What I took from Jane’s post is that we should be inspired by the the original partisans and not be afraid to stand up and speak out against facist thugs. More to the point, we should expect the liberal-progressive leadership to stop cowering behind the Emerald City curtain of bi-partisanship. Which is really a code for another relevant word: appeasement.
Brisingamen @ 178
It is the inevitable result of the purposeful acquisition of all the major media outlets by neoconservatives.
Many of us have been speaking about
Campaign Finance Reform. How about if we
were to say, ‘Hey! Democrats, stay in D.C.
this summer – do IMPEACHMENT, which will educate and inspire the people. It doesn’t
matter if the Republic Senate balks – by
then EVERYBODY will see the truth and YOU
will be much appreciated AND get to keep
your (cushy) jobs, With our approval. If
you leave town – don’t expect much when you return. You will have been out manneuvered
AND you will be almost universally loathed.
Even if you collect billion$, this vacation, er, recess, you will return diminished, be
seen as pathetic and be remembered as having
failed on YOUR watch.
You expect us to support you, that’s
why your hands are out, right? Well, we,
the people (’of, by and for’ remember?)
expect nothing less than that you support
us. Put aside party and personal ambition
and support Democracy and the Constitution.
If you do not DO your ‘job’ none of us will have a future of HOPE and Possibility.
The Republics have shown that they are Tories
at heart. The people will ‘get’ it. You must
trust the people, afterall, It’s up to us.
All of us who cherish the potential of what our nation might be. Once again, but for real
this time – a beacon of light, of humanity,
decency and courage, a positive example in the
world. Our principle exports should be ideas,
hope and helpfulness – not mayhem and death
songs of exceptionalism and hubris…
Elliott @ 181
I’m going to seize on this comment to reiterate something I said above: There are as we speak/write, real “partisans”, or “guerillas” or “insurgents”, or whatever you want to call them, doing the real work to end the U.S. occupation of Iraq.
The total lack of self awareness in self-adulatory, semantically contorted comparisons to “partisans” is breathtaking.
We are probably no more likely to end the war we started than Germans ended the war they started. It is an ugly fact that I’m sure everyone here has confronted: only armed resistance, and resistance of the most indiscriminate ruthless kind, is going to end our occupation of Iraq. That, and economic coercion by the rest of the world. In the end, as necessary as it is, the political opposition of Americans will have meant next to nothing.
cc in nm @ 177
This is Rove 101 — attack your opponent for the things you are most guilty of.
Great post Jane! Happy Birthday from a fellow partisan. Thanks for all you are doing in the ‘partisan’ fight to restore our nation.
brendan @ 58
Every other word out of Obama and Lieberman’s mouth is calling me a partisan. All I’m saying is that I don’t have a problem with that. And that they should be a lot more mindful of the shades of meaning with a very loaded word.
As for Dr. Maryam, as I recall she didn’t deal too lightly with those trying to suck up to her, either, so one might want to tread lightly there.
Simply because our resistance efforts have not yet led us to flee our homes into what remains of “forests,” or prompted us to blow up transportation hubs as the WWII partisans did, are we not allowed to look to their example for courage?
We are called “partisan” as an evil epithet by the GOP. Are we to say to them, no, we are not proud of our position of resistance to fascism because we do not as yet abandon our homes to live in the forest?
Do we not have an obligation to do everything we can in a nonviolent fashion first, to wrest control of the levers of power from the maniacs? Is there something wrong with citizens speaking out in town hall meetings and writing and calling their representives demanding action — because it is not extreme ENOUGH?
I don’t like seeing citizens who make what might be their first attempts to engage in the political process DENIGRATED for those attempts. We need to cheer every effort in the process of supporting our beleaguered Constitution.
Damn right, Jane, shoot to kill. I’m half Polish and loathe the abundant evidence of antisemitism there then and in places now; when I was in southern Poland a couple of years ago, I couldn’t bring myself to go anywhere near Auschwitz. Saw the road sign; sped on.
-ck- @ 200
clearly it is… but why don’t Dems recognize it and challenge the doublespeak? I’m so sick of no one rebutting it I could scream.
from freedictionary.com
par·ti·san 1 (pärt-zn)
n.
1. A fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea.
2. A member of an organized body of fighters who attack or harass an enemy, especially within occupied territory; a guerrilla.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a partisan or partisans.
2. Devoted to or biased in support of a party, group, or cause: partisan politics.
VJB @ 204
My father told me that he had an opportunity to go see Buchenwald at the tail end of WWII and chose not to doso as the stories were horrific enough. I tend to agree.
DoJ sent Conyers a DoJ sent Conyers a letter, stating that they will not enforce a contempt citation if it passes the house.
1933?
well, we are attacking and harassing BushCo, aren’t we? I guess we’re partisan by definition.
Argh–I butchered the links!
-ck- @ 200
Amen.
Well, of course I support modern partisanship on behalf of progressive causes, and of course European “partisans” were noble and I’m proud of them…
And of course it useful to reclaim the word partisan…
But is it honest? Even given the fact that those partisans were against fascism, and so are we today?
Because of course Republicans can be “partisans” too, and they are just fascists…. and we’ll feel pretty sick when THEY start claiming a legacy with the Jewish antiNazi partisans of yore.
Bottom line, I understand your intent, but this is all making a bit much of etymology. Other than the word itself, there isn’t much of a connection between the WWII partisans and the modern meaning. Both are good… but neither are necessarily good…. (there were, as you know, vicious anti-Jewish Ukranian and Polish irregulars who were probably called “partisans” also.) We could say, “oh those were the Republican predecessors…” I suppose, but that would be taking it a bit far.
Partisans believed in stuff long ago and fought for it.
Partisans today believe in stuff and fight for it.
What they are believing in and fighting for matters a lot… not whether they are called partisans or not.
Referring to my post above, when it shows up, I did go to the Apartheid Museum in Johannesburg a couple of years back, and it was a powerful and upsetting experience. Can you guess whether I was a partisan there? It’s worth the trip. I’m a big boy now, but I was crying when I saw the videos of the presidential election at the end. I have a Nelson Mandela election poster over my office desk. Would that we had someone like him.
Woodhall Hollow @ 209
Then it has to be inherent contempt. Call out the Sargent at Arms.
Kinda, Elliot. But also, there are strings where some members of FDL will attack and harrass Reid, Pelosi, Hoyer, Conyers, etc etc. and any and all of the Democratic candidates for 2008..
..Basically, any time somebody screws up, some members of FDL will let them know.
punaise –
What initially sent me running out of the Dachau Concentration Camp museum, convulsed in tears, was a letter posted in one of the display cases.
Not everything was translated into English, and this letter was one of those items.
In the letter a mother in one camp wrote to her son, interned in Dachau. She tenderly advised him to wear his winter coat now, as the autumn weather was turning cold and damp.
That single expression of human tenderness, so beautiful and so futile, hit me in a spot that the mind-staggering numbers and statistics could not.
In my mind I took that one tender moment of parent/child love and magnified it by millions in my mind. It blew me away, devastating me for days, and I’ll never ever forget.
Jane Hamsher @ 203
That’s why I refrained from posting any questions to her or otherwise participating; I’m only citing her as an authority now that I know she’s not reading.
I’m sure you don’t want me to suck up, either. And as for my complaints, you work in Hollywood, and you deal with piddling critics all the time, so I’ll assume you could care less. The post did stink, though.
The picture provided by JH shows now Serbian, not now Yugolsav partisans. Serbia has a distinquished record of aiding Jews in WWII, a fact overlooked by the Clintons in their self serving tirades and bombing of civilians in Serbia, as well as unnecessarily destroying bridges on the key waterways in Serbia.
cc in nm @ 205
I agree. Since the MSM can’t be relied on, a dem spokesman should be chosen to expose and ridicule the repub talking points every day.
Woodhall Hollow @ 210
No you didn’t. One link to tpm story and one link to the letter…
LS @ 214
Enough!
spurious @ 172
Yes, Bush uses “partisan” to mean, “you didn’t do what I told you”.
It is the language of victimization–”You’re being mean to me,” as opposed to being a grown up in the political process and saying, “We disagree.”
Bush@Co. aren’t depressing enough, so I recently bought five books relating to Hitler’s compassionate conservatism. They are tough going and the similarities between 1939 and 2007 are gosh awful.
VJB @ 205
Give yourself a break. Two reminders: Zegota, Powstanie Warszawskie. No apologies necessary, much less to Americans.
Jane is an artisan of the blog-craft.
dakine01 @ 208
I don’t think I agree. When I was a student, my Catholic diocesan high school (a remarkably lefty place at the time) of more than 2000 students held repeated showings of “Night and Fog” in the school auditorium.
Every student was required to attend unless given a note by their parents. Numerous students ran out of the auditorium sobbing. Some of them went to the nearby rest-room and threw up.
I guarantee that not one of those students who saw that film will ever believe the Holocaust was “over-exaggerated,” they are now citizens who will never fall for Holocaust revisionism. And they will never forget the film footage taken by the SS themselves for their own perverse gratification.
I think that’s a good thing.
spurious @ 215
I’ve been calling for a website where the lying rethug talking points du jour could be easily viewed by the Dem punditry or talking heads… whomever the cable corporate media bestows the right to respond to the rethug liars.
But I love the idea of a Dem spokesperson who would respond to Tony Snow et al. daily… I volunteer!
albert fall @ 221
And inherently dishonest.
cc in nm @ 227
these are really good ideas!
Deep in EPU-land but just read this and am wiping away the tears. Love you, Jane. Happy Birthday.
Elliott @ 229
thanks for the encouragement… perhaps I should start a blog/website liesdujour.org
Just got back home from a business trip. Jane, you rule. This was an awesome post. More to the point, I cannot emphasise enough how much we in the rest of the world are relying on progressive Americans to lance the boil that is American (neo/paleo/religio)conservatism. We desperately, desperately need you to do this, before the whatever-cons’ militarism results in some innocent nation being turned into glass, and before the toxin that is Ameri-con ideology permanently poisons the discourse here in the rest of the world.
A few weeks ago I tried to raise something that has been bothering this particular outsider: the need to do more than just gripe on the internet. I presented the “are you willing to sacrifice Just One Thing” idea in the hope that it will become a meme. But even if it doesn’t — check out this excellent post on DailyKos by thereisnospoon.
This doesn’t happen unless you guys get out there. I wish we could (legally) do more to help, but we can’t. We are relying on you. We are with you in spirit and beg you to come through, for the rest of the world’s sake as well as your own.
Peace,
d.u.g
VJB @ 205
I’m glad you modified your antisemite accusation against contemporary Poland. I also am half Polish, visited a distant relative there in 01, who took us all up & down the eastern half of the country. Not only did he, a Catholic, take us (me & my son) to many Jewish sites, like historic synagogues, out of respect for my late Jewish husband, he also said he had volunteered on upkeep of a Jewish cemetary when he was in college. Don’t know how representative he is, but the sites are well maintained.
I found Auschwitz, stranegly, less moving than the Holocaust Museum in DC. The difference is all the subliminal way they are set up to hit you emotionally. The Holocauset Museum tries to transport you into the experience. Auschwitz is just presented as it is now, not as it would have been. The biggest difference is that there are now grass, trees, and no people. It looked like a park, not a concentration camp. In addition, the barbed wire had been taken down for maintainence resons. Visually that would have made a huge difference.
The difference between the DC museum & the actual concentration camp came as a shock to me, and taught me a lot about how important the design is in conveying the message.
Sebastien Dangerfield @ 43
It’s not a figure of speech – Joe has proudly stated that Barack picked him as mentor, in his presence.
Joe-Bama is presumptively a neo-con, DLC, principle free triangulator, alhough with some very pious, adaptive camouflage.
The camouflage part is all he has in common with the partisans Jane writes so movingly of.
cc in nm @ 230
Yes! What about just ‘republicantalkingpoints.org’? Or ‘memofromrove.org’??
The call of “partisanship” is also one of those sneaky misuses of polling. It’s used to threaten Democrats away from taking action.
But why are people “sick of partisanship”? Because they have seen what the Republicans have done with it.
Is this the reason Democrats want to avoid taking action? Because the Republicans used their power and people don’t like the results? I would suggest fighting for different results, then; not “no results”.
Obama? Well, I haven’t made up my mind about him. Nor any other candidate. But it is perfectly possible to decry partisanship while using it appropriately in the aim of legitimate ends.
As six million Jews were being brutally murdered , the brave Jewish partisans derailed trains, killed Germans and rightfully so! But until we can apply the empathy and compassion that we feel towards 6 million Jews who were brutally murdered in that horrendous genocide to the 3 million Poles, 1 million gypsies, gays and the handicapped who were murdered by Hitler and his sickos. Until there are museums that are dedicated to all of those who were brutally murdered in that war and all genocides. Until we apply that compassion and empathy towards the Iraqi people who are being slaughtered as a direct result of the invasion and old differences and overwhelming anger (the neo-cons were well aware of this tension). Until we apply that same empathy and compassion to the people of other genocides, Armenian, Tibetans, Darfur, Rwanda, East Timor. The cycle of violence will continue.
The Iraqi people are not on a physical train taking them to gas chambers. But the “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots constructed a train of death for the Iraqi people by creating chaos in Iraq via an illegal invasion based on false intelligence (I believe they knew exactly what they were doing)
Many Americans are trying to legally derail the Bush administrations killing train ,but it is too late for close to a million Iraqi people and 3600 American soldiers. I can easily understand Dr. Maryams anger it is no different than what those Jewish “partisans’ were feeling!
spurious @ 235
isn’t that spurious?
Yes, indeed. The Democrats need a high volume, high visibility fact checker to take on the lies and revisionist history spouted by the Tony Snows.
spurious @ 235
how ’bout doublespeak.org
brendan @ 200
I understand why Dr. Maryam might think that domestic armed resistance to the US government is a good idea, but most others who voiced that opinion would be regarded as crackpots.
Oh well, I guess somebody has to make Bob Fertik look like the Unity 08 go-to guy.
Elliott @ 237
Moi?
Thank you, Jane. Right on.
At a family gathering when I spoke hotly against Bushco a few years ago a mild relative asked me, in a reasonable tone, could I not be open to compromise?
“Fine,” I said., “Let’s compromise. Which parts of the Bill of Rights are you willing to give up?”
Or how about –
GettingSnowed.org or
SnowedAgain.org
TeddySanFran@180–
Lieberman as part of an Obama administration? What a scary thought, but an inspired one, I’m sorry to say. I never really thought about that before, but I’m sure you’re right. Another arrow in the quiver for those of us opposed to an Obama nomination. He’s my senator and has never once responded to my emails, whereas Durbin always does. When people say Obama is an “empty suit”, I can definitely relate. Talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk.
Mrs. K8 @ 244
I like snowjob.org
Mrs. K8 @ 243
I like it. Or just plain snowjob.org?
Also, deep in EPU land, just want to tell Jane that it was a beautiful post. Now go out and celebrate!
I am a partisan, no doubt about it. Truth knows no partisanship. Sometimes there must be compromise on minor details, but there are times when only the truth and doing the right thing matters.
Fact and truth does matter. If that makes me partisan, and liberal, so be it. I am comfortable (on second thought proud of) the labels.
spurious @ 248
so many possibilities cus there are so many liars!
Jane upstairs on Iranian Nukes and GOP Kooks
Jane: Sorry to disappoint you. Libermann besides being Jew, is a Zion*st. So far that people can not make this distition clear, all dialogue, will inevitablely end in charges of Anti-semitism, no matter how compasionated you are. The use of controversial peons in order to divide is Zionism modus operandi. Let’s remember how many times it have happens before.http://www.amfirstbooks.com/ca…..ucts_id=16
Edited * and released by MOD
FYI, new thread
Jane Hamsher @ 242
Is that the idea I voiced? Are you sure you don’t want to reread what I wrote?
That’s a slander; worse, in fact, when our Homeland Security apparatus is Keeping Us Safe by Any Means Possible and possibly keeping a record of this exchange. So I respectfully ask that you retract the slimy accusation that I advocate “domestic armed resistance to the US government” here or abroad.
You can’t take criticism, and play dirty pool to boot. Do that with Republicans, not one of your readers.
Jane Hamsher @ 242
I have enormous compassion for Maryam and her compatriots, but a lot of the so-called partisan violence in Iraq is hurting the Iraqis more than it is hurting the US. I was sad to see her language of “never forgetting or forgiving.” (something you never heard from Mandela, who was subjected to a much more brutal occupation for a much longer time). Same could be said in the Palestinian territories. There are other ways to fight oppression: it may be less satisfying in the short term, but I would suggest that the long term benefits of a sustained campaign of radical but peaceful action are worth the immediate and long-term sacrifices.
Ooooh, I like “SnowJob.org” — so simple, so elegant.
It’s what I was aiming for, but missed. My suggestions also carried the hint of defeatism (”SnowedAgain”).
Snow Job is much, much better! Hats off!
‘Partisans’ is, like all the thug propaganda, directed at their base and via their base at low-information voters, who on the whole don’t like conflict. So anything that smacks of conflict they would rather avoid, and if the thugs get away with blaming the Dems for ‘partisanship’, then the low-information types will blame Dems. It’s all propaganda. The Dems got caught with their pants down when Newt came in and took propaganda to a new level. Rove is the American Goebbels. In that context, we have to be partisans.
I get a lot of sh*t from my wife on this, because she thinks I’m crazy. I notice that others here have had similar experiences with their sig-others.
As to Obama, he’s mining a vein. I don’t think he’s ready for prime time yet,and shouldn’t have run. But by claiming that part of the spectrum, he’s forced Hillary to the left, which on the whole is good. I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone at this point knows, and perhaps he doesn’t even know, what his true politics are.
Jane’s right:
All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.
- Edmund Burke
Micheal”creaative destruction” Ledeen ‘allegedly” one of the bigger pushers of false WMD intelligence and perceptions having to do with Iraq studied fascist ideology and practices
“In addition to violence and death, F.T. Marinetti was obsessed with speed. Leeden similarly embraces speed, signing his columns in which he presses for more military action “Faster Please.” History has shown where Leeden’s philosophy of “creative destruction” leads. An obsession with death, war and violence, leads not surprisingly to more and more death, war and violence. One can only hope that we need not continue to repeat the mistake of the Italians and fall prey to demented thinkers like Leeden.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2003/12/31/215714
Micheal Ledeens fascination with fascism
http://hnn.us/roundup/archives/14/2004/10/#8124
/04
Woodhall Hollow –
Thanks for that last comment. Gandhi, who tossed the mighty British Empire out non-violently after a much, much longer occupation, would agree.
Woodhall Hollow @ 254
Easy for you to say, huh?
What do you think set off the chain of events that led to our destruction of Fallujah: a march in the streets that we fired on. Just like the 2nd intifada.
Your pollyannaish talk reminds me of the Tom Freidman line: “Where’s the Palestinian Ghandi”, to which the answer is: tied to a chair with a wet burlap sack over his head.
Knut Wicksell @ 256
Sorry to hear about the disagreement with your wife. You cause me again to thank the heavens for my good luck — Mr. K8 and I have never, not once, had a single political disagreement. We both see these thugs for the fascists they are, and are distressed and impatient for them to be tried as war criminals.
It’s also why, even though our money situation is mighty tough now, we’ve had a modest amount taken out of our bank account every month by the ACLU and Amnesty International.
My disability limits what I can physically do. But we can scrimp and give what we can every month. And make calls, and write, and agitate, and attend local demonstrations when we can, and sign petitions, and speak out wherever and whenever we hear treasonous thuggishness expressed in favor of the war criminals — and pray together every single night for all those who love Truth and demand Justice.
We all do what we can, and each has his or her own role to play in the fight for the Constitution. Bless you in your own quest — and may your wife have the scales fall from her eyes, so that she may see the true dangers we face.
Thank you for one of the most moving columns I’ve ever read.
Julie @ 263
I second that. Just got here. Jane, this is one of your best posts ever. Thank you so much.
brendan @ 260
Brendan: I have been to the Palestinian territories. Have you? I have also been to Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Saudi Arabia. And oh yes, Iran. Oops, forgot to mention Bahrain and Egypt. I have lived in that part of the world–and I know what I am talking about when I say that if there was a Palestinian Ghandhi, you are right–the Israeli’s would grab him–but there would not be a peaceful outcry in the cities of Nablus and Bethlehem–no, a suicide bomber would be shipped to Tel Aviv in response.
There ARE people in the Palestinian territories who have tried to advocate for a non-violent resistance, and sad to say, they have been in as much danger from the likes of Hamas as they have been from the IDF.
grayslady @ 246
I’m submitting just that question to Obama at YK: “As your Senate mentor, do you foresee a role in your Administration for Joe Lieberman?” Hope Christy gets the question-picking panel to pick my question!
Brendan –
I guess you disagree with Gandhi, who said that one must be a soldier of nonviolence — one must be as courageous and determined in every way as a violent soldier would be, willing to die in the effort just as a violent soldier would.
Gandhi saw the British kill and maim many of his nonviolent movement members — and yet he said the answer was not to strike back but to overwhelm the enemy with ever-greater numbers of the nonviolent — who would never ever be passive, but agressively insistent and relentless in the pursuit of their human rights.
Many people don’t agree with Gandhi, so you are not alone, but no one should suggest that Gandhi himself would ever have agreed with violent reaction against the brutal oppression of his nonviolent soldiers. He UNDERSTOOD why people reacted violently, but never supported it. He said that his movement would lose at least as many members to British killing in an armed rebellion — his members needed to be prepared to die in the same numbers.
Mrs. K8 @ 266
Well said, Mrs K8.
Anton @ 252
Dialogue, Debate, legitimate questions about Israel, the Israeli lobby, lopsided reporting having to do with the Israeli Palestinian conflict based or influenced by peoples religious , cultural or ethnic affiliations often get shut down quickly. I was slammed quickly here at FDL for a question about NPR’s hiring practices the moderators here at FDL said I had gone “over the line”. I quickly apologized and sent my comments and the FDL responses to two media watch groups and Proferssor Mearsheimer asking for their insights.
But when one of the commenters here at FDL called me unnecessary and outrageous names that were uncalled for. Not one moderator even blinked. Double standards? I think so.
I think the lack of coverage about the A*P*C espionge investigation and the delayed (6 times) trial by the MSM and the blogosphere demonstrates clearly how this issue is “off limits” to the press, congress, and the American people for honest discussion and debate.
Woodhall Hollow @ 265
No, I haven’t, and I apologize: I guess you are in a position, or at least a better position than most, to cast judgment. I also shouldn’t assume that a violent insurgency is the correct path, but still: successful peaceful resistance to armed occupation is a rarity, and you can easily see how the chastisement of the Iraqis for not being Ghandi reminds me of neocon scriveners.
Papp (?) had the study last year that guerilla resistance is successful half the time, good odds that make such resitance a rational option.
Kathleen @ 269
Jane Hamsher accused me of advocating armed resistance against the U.S. government.
Mrs. K8 @ 267
What an inspiration Gandhi was/is. Martin Luther King studied with him, Gandhi’s teachings were a huge influence on the civil rights movement.
“Live more simply so others can simply live” applies to all of us.
I believe we have a right to protect our own or families lives, but when we exert our military strength and export violence to protect our way of life (oil oil oil) this greed and need have created a very serious moral and spiritual crisis.
Mrs. K8 @ 267
It’s funny you should say that. I frequently take my little kid up Massachusetts Avenue where I stop at a statue of Ghandi and tell him what a great man he was. Yesterday, in fact.
Of course I don’t “disagree” with Ghandi, but you’re not in much position to “disagree” with people violently resisting the occupation of their country, as if circumstances between India and Iraq didn’t differ (for one thing, our “occupation” was never completed successfully; we never “won” and established a government).
brendan @ 271
What’s this, pity partisans run amok?
John Edwards on “compromise” from Monday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;eurl=ht
tp://johnedwards.com/watch/hair/
by the way you will always see Edwards wear his $1 yellow cancer bracelet…
jist sayin..
Woodhall Hollow, I have two friends who have been to Israel and into the Palestinian refugee camps close to 5 years accumulatively. Art and Peggy Gish with the Christian Peace Maker team. They have spent months with Palestinian shepherds been, stood in front of Israeli bulldozers, walked Palestinian children to schools while settlers spit on the children and threw rocks at them. They have witnessed Israeli soldiers be very cruel to Palestinian children with their own eyes.
They have talked about a Palestinian man (forget his name I will ask them) who had tried to integrate and apply Gandhis non-violent methods to the I/P conflict. They claim that he was quicly eliminated.
I will find out his name
Peggy is in Israel now. Peggy has also spent close to four years in Iraq both before the invasion and after. She has shared amazing stories and insights into the Iraqi disaster.
Eureka Springs not at all. If I had wanted to do that I would have brought it up right away.
Too bad that you are not willing to consider that there may be double standards here at FDL.
That demonstrates a real openness to constructive criticism. You will grow a great deal with an attitude like that
Remember Rachel
no compromise
http://www.ccmep.org/2003_arti…..ist_ki.htm
Woodhall Hollow
I think the Palestinian man who has embraced Gandhi’s non-violence methods and belief is Sameh Samha. I will ask Peggy and Art to see if this is the man they have talked about.
http://www.palestinemonitor.or…..rchive.htm
Kathleen, As I have said to you before, I am sympathetic to much of what you push for, open discussion on touchy subjects.
However, listing a few names of employees in any organization and suggesting some sort of conspiracy is just whacked, imo.
Also your hammering methods grow tiresome even to those of us who are sympathetic to some of your concerns..
If you cannot see the gentle joke in “pity partisanship” Note the original topic of this thread and the comment quoted where I stated it.. may I gently suggest you both lighten up as I leave this thread and move along.
cheers
Partisanship is called “opposition” in other countries, as in the Opposition Party. Glad you have outed Obama on this issue:
This country needs an opposition party. The Dems s/be it; let’s hope they make progress soon.
Eureka Springs @ 280
I would say that you should take your own good advice. Lighten up on your snarky comments. Not necessary
Hear, hear!
Bringing up the “pervasive cronyism” at NPR and that it might be based on cultural, ethnic, and religious affiliations is not a ludicrous conspiracy. This is another way to try to even consider that there could be the possibility ( employees have claimed this and gone to court over this issue.)
That an individuals cultural, ethnic, or religious affiliation might influence the way they report about a certain topic is not a conspiracy it is a strong possibility
kathleen, you really need to lighten up, because after a while you start to sound like you can only focus on one topic.
You must not read all of the links that I connect on the different topics.
Happy Birthday, Jane!
Toby Wollin @ 75
Several million Iraqi’s have all ready been killed due to the U.S. (sanctions and invasions) , 4 million displaced. Americans are not much different that those who stood by by while millions died during Hitlers killing rampage.
Jane,
What an amazing bit of writing. You are spot on as usual. Thanks for the inspiring post. I have nothing to add… you have said it all perfectly.
brendan @ 271
No it was acceptable for the Jewish “partisans” against their crazed murderers, but not for others. If you are going to honor people like the Jewish “partisans” for their bravery using the methods of violence to stop some of those who had violently murdered their people, then why is not o.k. to honor or try to understand the use of violent methods by others who face brutality?
although I am with Gandhi, Martin Luther King and other leaders who taught and lived by non-violent means. But I understand how people who are experiencing that type of brutality respond with violent responses.
ccmask: It was yesterday in a front page thread by Georiga10. I will quote some from the first paragraph:
YearlyKos is just around the corner, and if you’re going to be in Chicago on August 1st, consider stopping by the People for the American Way’s YearlyKos Welcome Event. Organized by the Midwest Chapter of the PFAW, the event will be held next Wednesday, August 1st from 6:00 p.m. until 8:00 p.m. at the always awesome Funky Buddha Lounge. I’ll be there, as will several other familiar names and faces from DailyKos.
…
Beautiful writing, Jane, and very inspiring. It brought to mind this Leonard Cohen song, which I used to listen to each morning in the early ’70s after I meditated. It’s called, The Partisan:
When they poured across the border
I was cautioned to surrender,
This I could not do;
I took my gun and vanished.
I have changed my name so often,
Ive lost my wife and children
But I have many friends,
And some of them are with me.
An old woman gave us shelter,
Kept us hidden in the garret,
Then the soldiers came;
She died without a whisper.
There were three of us this morning
Im the only one this evening
But I must go on;
The frontiers are my prison.
Oh, the wind, the wind is blowing,
Through the graves the wind is blowing,
Freedom soon will come;
Then we’ll come from the shadows.
Les allemands etaient chez moi,
Ils me dirent, signe toi,
Mais je nai pas peur;
Jai repris mon arme.
Jai change cent fois de nom,
Jai perdu femme et enfants
Mais jai tant damis;
Jai la france entie`re.
Un vieil homme dans un grenier
Pour la nuit nous a cache,
Les allemands lont pris;
Il est mort sans surprise.
Oh, the wind, the wind is blowing,
Through the graves the wind is blowing,
Freedom soon will come;
Then we’ll come from the shadows.
Is anyone surprised today’s “partisan” is used in terms of the partisans that fought fascism during WWII? In many ways the partisan struggle continues against a foe today that shares an anti-democratic, totallitarian ideology. Today’s Republican Party adheres to many of the principles adhered to by the fascist regimes of Italy, Germany and Spain. This is not a loyal opposition party but a 5th column dedicated to the destruction of Constitutional government. It’s time to say out load that the Republican Party is an anti-American cabal that will use whatever means at their disposal to further their messianic world view.
An interesting footnote to the photo. The vast majority of Yugoslav partisans during WWII were Serbs and they helped maintain an underground railroad that ferried Eastern European Jews to the Mediterranean and on to Israel. It is for this reason that Israel supported Serbia diplomatically during the Nato’s criminal assault 1999. (remember that war, the ‘good’ one because the democrats started it).
Maybe one of these days this atrocity of US foreign policy can be re-evaluated by the many who have recently found war distasteful.
Late to the thread, haven’t read the comments, but if we are partisans, then THEY ARE COLLABORATORS!
Collaborating in destroying the Republic.
syvanen @ 294
The vast majority of the Serbian partisans were communists. Remember Joseph Broz??? The Serbians that were committing genocide against Croats and Muslims in the late 90’s were not the “partisans” of WWII but rather the philosophical inheritors of those Serbs that sympathized and collaborated with the Nazi’s. Those that don’t learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
What a powerful, thoughtful post, JH. I’m a proud partisan, too, increasingly so in my daily life with people at every opportunity.
It’s our obligation to overcome what “bi-partisanship” hath wrought these last forty years.
Politicians and their gaggling media fornicat*rs got it wrong when they decided that Americans don’t like partisanship and that Americans want comity in politics and bipartisanship. Average schlep apolitical American could give a rats-ass about partisanship, bipartisanship, being nice or being mean. Average schlep American cares about one thing and one thing only – getting things done, a.k.a., what are you doing for ME! Most Americans don’t care how you get whatever they want done, they only care that you get it done.
.
Edited * and released by MOD
Jane, this is a really fine peice of writing. I am proud to be a partisan and to be on your side.
Fantastic post, Jane.
Brilliant.
Now this is a partisan warrior:
–John Edwards, YouTube Debate.
If “partisan” is bad, they surely “bipartisan” is twice as bad.
Partisanship is natural when two political parties adhere to distinctly different philosophies. I also like partisanship.
This is my favorite FDL post, ever, Jane.
Happy Birthday! And thank you.
The grandson of a man that watched Islamic Turks behead his Christian male relatives, rape his female relatives at age 12 in the first genocide of the 20th century (the word Genocide was coined for the Armenians, Jane), made his way to Europe then America, raised 7 children and NEVER talked about his life experiences except to say “I forgive, but no forget”, wants to know specifically what “aftermath” your friend has “lived with ” her” entire life.”
Just curious to know, Jane.
And no, I couldn’t make the sentence any longer.
This post raises a politically imperative question: if you had been alive and living in Germany in say 1936, and you recognized the political drift of the country, (and I am assuming you didn’t like the Nazis) which of the other political parties would you have supported?
And as a follow up, do you think the other various fractions should have cast aside their differences to stop National Socialism?
As you answer these questions, think back on how the Americans, the British, the French, the Canadians (and even the Germans) differentiated between the various political parties after the war!!
If BushCo is successful in his pursuit of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rove/Gonzales/Carlyle agenda, how will the world judge the Democratic Party? Similar to that of the various parties that have long been forgotten?
Will people say of the Democrats
Jane, you always got something to say that’s worth hearing!
jane
thank you for your post,and thank firedoglake for the website. i pray to God that i can always be a partisan and speak truth to people that may not want to hear it. may i be able to make them think.
helen kenney
The Democratic wing of the Republicrat Party is like the Vichy French than the Yugoslav Partisans…
What kind of Partisan votes for enhancing and extending the Nazis draconian powers, trashing the Constitution of the country they are supposedly defending?
Patriot Act renewal, H.R. 3199
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
89-10, only 10 real partisans, showing courage on that one.
What kind of Partisan takes impeachment off the table?
And note that
the innumerable betrayals and capitulations from the (D) that are lamented here in detail would not have happened if there was an opposition worthy of being compared to the anti-nazi fighters of WWII.
a moving and important post nonetheless, there are many lessons to be learned today from research into that time…
Jacob G. Hornberger has a great article “Why Germans Supported Hitler” over at http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0703a.asp
Kathleen,
This is Jane’s blog. If you have ever participated in a discussion of the I/P conflict, A*P*C and the Z*onist movement in a high volume, public forum such as this, you must understand how quickly it draws trolls like a magnet as well as how much of a workload it places on the moderators and the servers. I have been there. There are reasons why certain words are filtered as well.
If you are seriously determined to have this conversation–and I agree it is an important one, there is no need to harass Jane or the moderators about it. Start your own blog. I didn’t see the original post that was “over the line” but if you feel you have been insulted, perhaps those feelings are mutual as your adamant criticism is really impolite.
If you come back to read this, I hope this helps.
“Is Firedoglake already a Hillary stalking-horse?”
Yes. This has been another edition of easy answers to easy questions.
I felt Linda grab you. Fine work, Jane.
Your criticism of Obama is just, in my opinion. Whenever Obama does ‘pox on both’, he ignores the harm Republicans do to our Armed Services, to our children, and to our poor.
If Obama is nominated, I will vote for him over ‘pretty boy’ Romney or the ‘wicked stepsister’ Guiliani or Fredrick of Hollywood. But I won’t give him my primary vote.
sporkovat @ 310
*sigh* Looks like there’s lots of work ahead. Ever feel like Sisyphus?
DelRPCV @ 312
Not trying to be obtuse here, but what the heck is a “Hillary stalking-horse”?
The blog is generally anti-DLC and pro-Progressive. If that’s what that means then fine…but anything else? Not.
Audrey – someone was assuming that any anti-Obama statements must be pro-Hillary, though the metaphor is strained.
The site is often blisteringly hard on leading (D)’s, but also quite forthright in condemning 3rd party notions.
They are trying to cohere a progressive force within the (D) party , a task fraught with difficulty.
and, sigh, Sisyphus at least was able to move his rock, before watching it roll down again.
sporkovat @ 316
Right. I should have said “Within the Dem party” because pragmatically speaking, it’s the only one we have that will work. Maybe someday third parties will stand a chance but that’s not now. But the idea that we’re collectively pro-Hillary (cuz there may be a couple commenters out there that are for her that I haven’t come across yet) is just nuts.
nice work!
brendan @ 271
And Jane Hamsher was spot on.
I usually like what you write, but you are 100% wrong on this. What you describe is being ethical and doing the right thing. You don’t have to be willing to work or listen to the other side, but how is blind loyalty to democrats any better? Even if the other side is always wrong, it doesn’t mean the democrats are always right. Claiming to be partisan and always side with one party is a very steep cliff of a slippery slope.
I will always shudder whenever I hear someone say being partisan is good. It simply isn’t. You don’t need any of that political rhetoric if you are simply ethical and vote and do things based on what is best for the people.
The only thing people can be partisan to is the constitution and ethics. Everything else is just you fooling yourself.
Hopefully you’ll come to see the light on this.
syvanen @ 294
Interesting how this site edits out comments about the Clintons and their role in the atrocious bombing of innocent Serbians.
[Mod: Such comments are not censored.]
Myrtle June @ 319
Jane Hamsher has her biases and is not always spot on! Please try to be honest
Audrey @ 311
That was polite criticism. I apologized for my comments that Jane and others felt was “over the line” but I did not agree. And the moderators did indeed allow a personal attack on me that they did not object to, others noticed, and I truely saw a double standard here.
If the bloggers here cannot take polite criticism on issues that commenters see as well as compliments. Then how is Firedoglake any different than other institutions or groups who are unable to be politely criticized? Not so different.
I understand that the Israeli Palestinian issue attracts creepy and lying trolls. But Firedoglake seems to pride itself in discussing diverse, relevant and critical issues. When the Israeli Palestinian conflict is the main thorn in many countries sides in the middle east(along with our military bases to protect our oil access) why would FDL mostly ignore this issue?
I will not be starting my own blog, we do not need more blogs (like the enviromental movement during the 70’s the more groups the more the issues became watered down over the years) Divide and conquer! But I do believe that this blog has fallen into the very same avoidance strategy as the MSM on the I/P issue.
Kathleen @ 323
I guess your sour feelings over this incident are coloring your ability to see why this topic is not frequently discussed (though it is sporadically through various threads that I have personally seen and participated in). No one in admin wants the headache and lack of productive discussion that goes with it. You may not mind a bunch of trolls but how about the mods? Please allow that there are good reasons for not wanting to open that door here.
But the bottom line is, it’s not your blog and insisting on having it your way or being snarky from thread to thread is likely to invite the exact type of criticism of you that is “allowed”–just as the mods did not delete the posts in this thread that were insulting to Jane. You might want to take a couple of deep breaths and find a blog that does allow the type of discussion you desire.
As I stated before, I have some considerable experience with this issue and sane discussions about it, even in a controlled environment are difficult at best.
Let me add my two cents:
We hear a lot of blather from the D.C. pundits that Democrats need to act in a more ‘bipartisan’ manner. To my real regret, we also hear this from Barack Obama. But the Republican Party is well on its way to destroying the Constitution of America and turning this country into something that Americans cannot recognize as the American Republic. Do David Broder and Barack Obama really expect America-loving Democrats to collaborate with the very people whose goal is to destroy the great idea that has been America? Should Democrats really collaborate with the enemy?
Did the American soldiers and sailors in the Pacific look for ways to collaborate with the Japanese on December 8, 1941? Any who did were traitors to American and should rightly have been lined up against a wall and shot.
The Republican Party, which has failed to prevent 9/11, then attacked a nation that was not involved in 9/11 while refusing to put the needed resources into capturing or killing Osama bin Laden, which has created an international gulag with its headquarter in Guantanamo in violation of all laws, which has picked up people it declared enemies and secretly imprisoned them, which has dispensed with habeas corpus the cornerstone of Anglo Saxon law and which is now asserting that the President is the source of law rather than Congress – This Republican Party is more of a danger to America as the Japanese Navy was in 1941.
I find no value in collaborating in a bipartisan manner with this dangerous Republican Party. To do so places bipartisanship and collaboration with those out to destroy America above support of the Constitution of America.
I am an American Partisan. I will not collaborate with the enemies of America, and right now the biggest enemy of America is the Republican party.
Love it–please post in newest thread.
Audrey @ 324
To my knowledge there are no blogs that discuss this issue. David Corns website did but it was attacked quite a while back.
I am not going to start another blog, and I will continue to bring this issue up in a respectful and acceptable (to Jane and who ever else makes these determinations at FDL) way here at FDL.
The MSM does not discuss this issue fairly if at all, and many in the blogosphere seem to fall behind the MSM on this issue. I am committed to doing it fairly, accurately and respectfully. I am sorry that the moderators and the site gets attacked by trolls so often when this issue comes up. But if FDL allows itself to fold on this issue, those who do not want this issue to be discussed at all win, but ultimately lose. Shutting down dialogue and debate about this issue which results in unfair policies being implemented infuriates those in the middle east who consider this a very serious issue to deal with fairly
You are right that this issue is “sporadically” discussed here at FDL, and I am sorry that discussing the issue attracts such vengeance. This only sheds light on how this issue has successfully been shut down in the U.S. media
Bluetoe @ 296
Tito was not a Serb. No one is really sure of his heritage but best guess is he was a Croat by birth. The Serbs who were commting attrocities against Croats and Muslims in the 90s after the Muslims and Croats had committed atrocities against the Serbs in WWII, were primarily led by Bosnian Serbs with the support of the Milosovic government.
Kathleen,
I don’t disagree with what you say. I would like to have discussions on here but the comment lag time for my posts doesn’t allow that. Monday I had a number of posts, perfectly fine posts, deleted. I was defending myself against attack they let through.
Let me be clear. I am for partisanship for the sake of the Constitution. We find the dems have bi-partisaned our country away and we have to get it back. We have seen the worst partisanship from the pubs for many years and now they want to cry “Partisan” to shut us up! I say NO to that. Jane is saying NO to that. I am a Constitutional Partisan and I will defend that. I am a Peace Partisan. I will defend that. It IS time for that.
As far as being a Democratic partisan. I am a Democrat who does not believe in every single one of their positions. I never give anyone a blank check. In that sense I am not a Democratic partisan at all.
I will continue to speak out on here, on my blog, and in my everyday life, in all my dealings. Its a little thing but that’s how this is done, from the bottom up.
I have no idea if this will make it through the mods or when so if you don’t hear from me, its not because I’m not posting. Since Monday, I thought I’d been banned.
I am being honest Kathleen. None of my posts are getting through the mods.
Amen to this post 40 times over!!! I never knew about the partisans either — thanks for sharing.
And I had no idea Sam W was on board with Unity08. Coupled with all the pro-death penalty drivel his character on L&O has spouted for years, this seriously reduces my respect for him immensely. Ugh.
Jane,
Bless your heart, I know this was an extremely heartfelt post, and your friend’s story is very moving. But the tone of the post kinda bothers me. Given the ethical, humanitarian, and constitutional outrages that face us, we do have a patriotic and moral obligation to be partisan. But as crucial as the progressive political struggle is, it isn’t equivalent to the military actions of The Partisans, even if we use the same name to define ourselves. The solution to our current political crisis is not another “War on….” The political rhetoric of the past 50 or so years has included quite enough of that pathology.
In times like this you are either a partisan, or you are a collaborator. It’s as simple as that.
Myrtle June @ 330
It’s not the mods. It’s the filters. Something is causing them to be caught and the mods have to release them manually. It’s a regular problem here, but I’m seeing your posts just fine.
And Kathleen, believe me, I thoroughly empathize. I/P was the issue that got me really researching the internet. I found a lot of great information too. If you want resources, I have plenty. There are others here who feel the same but this is just not the place as long as the management difficulties persist. Hope this helps.