I was watching Abu lie his face off on CSPAN3 for most of the morning so I’ve only heard it 3 times on CNN but the fact that there is a link between people who drink soda pop and heart disease seems to be dominating the headlines. Who woulda thunk.
I realize the future of the goddamn country rests on whether Lindsey Lohan is a drunken coke whore or not but the Attorney General of the United States will not answer Chuck Schumer’s question and say who sent him to Ashcroft’s room that fateful night. Simple question. He’s smirking in the face of Senators trying to get at exactly what happened; the little he manages to remember is inconsistent with the things he said before, and he knows there will be no penalty to pay if George Bush has anything to say for it. Scooter’s friends will protect him.
In a discussion of censure vs. impeachment this morning, Kagro X was analyzing the Youngstown case and had this to say:
I take that to be an acknowledgment by Justice Frankfurter that even bullshit claims like Bush’s can become part of the accepted range of presidential powers if they’re exercised — as Bush’s violations certainly have been — with the full knowledge of Congress, and to this point, unquestioned by them.
Many Democrats are so afraid of being accused of “overreach” by Republican bullies that they do not want to take any action that might be considered “drastic.” I was amusing myself by looking through the archives and all the predictions that Feingold was “destroying Democratic hopes” in 2006 when he introduced his censure measure last year. Yeah that happened. But the political risks involved in impeaching the oily and disgraced Abu are certainly much more limited than going after Cheney and Bush, and it allows Congress to begin to draw a line. Any line.
This man is an insult to the constitution. Impeach him. Get him out of there. Whatever it takes.
Sweet tapdancing Jesus, just do something to say “enough” and convince us that we are not looking at the New World Order because nobody wants to get their hands dirty.
And CNN? I liked your debate last night. People who drink a lot of soda tend to be fat and Lindsay Lohan is a subject best left to the pervs at The Corner. It would be nice to hear something about the fate of our country. I realize you can’t take LiLo out of the eye of the camera, but maybe pick a Sheldon Whitehouse clip or two and slug it into soda rotation for the rest of the day?
Just a thought.
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OVP controls DOJ.
zip
Jane!!!
zed again
BigMitch @ 4
NOT!
Speaker:
Is it time to act yet?
Jane! Christy! Whitehouse! Sunshine!
Impeach…
I just got another e-mail from Feingold and replied that we need to impeach Gonzales, after that performance this morning of misdirection, evasion and outright lying.
But it sure made the committee look better.
Before impeachment, we need to make sure that Congress does not recess for August. Otherwise, Bush will recess appoint another clown to do his bidding for the next eighteen months.
And why can’t Schumer just call AG a liar? I felt like I was watching Rocky Horror Picture Show–”Say it!!!!”
Seems like the Cheney – DOJ story ought to be making big headlines. Is it too complicated for people to understand?
Single digits? Jane rocks — again!
Damn.
Jane – I have a bone to pick with this post, and it’s this:
Shouldn’t “coke whore” be hyphenated?
I think it might be time to organise a mass FOIA request of FBI files. Let’s see what Total Information Awareness has been doing under Bush and Abu’s watch.
I want to make a point that I made downstairs which the senators missed today and it’s a VERY important point indeed;
EXCUSE ME
abu redifined torutre to mean only practices that cause death, loss of limb and organ failure
THAT’S NOT THE DEFNINTION OF TORTURE
but it’s the definition he uses in order to make the claim’;
“Gonzales says we aren’t engagng in torture”
someone has to challenge him on his depraved definition of what is and what is not torture
It looks like the television, radio and paper news media days are numbered. Do you think they are aware?
surfsup @ 9
He will also recess appoint those other 17 positions. That is what he is waiting for and why those positions haven’t been filled yet.
it appears this is a no win situation with the msm. anchors have become part of the elite. it’s like they are the brownshirts being told to drive the buses and trains full of people to the concentration camps and then to the gas chambers. they’re going to do it, no questions asked. sieg heil jane
Tithonia @ 10
What percentage of people have any idea what is the name of the U.S. Attorney in the district in which they live? I’m guessing less than 15%.
The reason this is not the subject of big headlines is people don’t give a shit. The corruption and ineptitude is to great to be comprehended, and the specific area of U.S. Attorney firings, is just not something that most Americans feel affects them. (Not in the way, say, Paris Hilton affects them, I guess.)
Folks, please help keep FDL on your screen by using the donate links in the upper right corner.
surfsup @ 9
Calling him a “liar” would be uncivil and against the rules, and his words could be “taken down” – I think.
noen @ 17
which would appear to bet yapp (yet another perjury point) given gonzo’s testimony this morning about their plans to seek immediate confirmation hearings for those positions …
Thanks Christy and Jane and all pups everywhere. Tremendous job today. Just proud to have been a small part. Wow!!!! $nail mail coming attcha
Peace, bluejeansntshirt
LS @ 21
How ’bout AGAG is a li…ahem…dissembler. Would that pass the rules?
The only thing that means anything at this point is impeachment. With 22 reThugs up for re-election in the Senate and many more in 2010 enough public pressure will get them to flip. The only way to create the pressure to have impeachment hearings.
IMPEACH
LS @ 21
Yep, it’s that damn “comity” thing.
Besides, sometimes it’s better to leave the word unsaid hanging out there in the air for everyone to see.
BigMitch @ 20
Well, the reason that people don’t give a shit is because it isn’t in the headlines.
Media drives public discussion, not the other way around.
Democrats. The nation and the world may very well be in your hands. Watcha gonna do?
eCAHNomics @ 24
Apparently so. Feingold (?) used this term.
Abu got called a liar ten ways from Sunday today.
Jane, I have not seen the latest discussion by Kagro X you describe, but the snippet you quoted is pretty accurate from everything I learned from a pretty significant curriculum on Con law and governmental law in law school. Frankfurter and Learned Hand are really two of the historical “go to” guys in these areas, and the conclusion that acceptance is effectively ratification and waiver of objection is exactly the right conclusion to draw. You can see it in play as we speak with the residuals of Watergate and Iran/Contra. This is precisely why I have been a raving lunatic for months at TNH about the necessity of initiating an impeachment investigation, even if it is only as to Gonzales to start. Running out the clock in order to protect our majorities, gain some seats and install a Democratic administration does not cut it. that is akin to doing some public service announcements and hoping crime disappears in your community. The facts and extent of harm must be fleshed out in a formal investigation, the public must be allowed to understand the full nature and extent of what has occurred, and those responsible must be held to account. If not, the ugly beast continues to raise it’s ugly head with impunity in the future.
coyne @ 18
After yesterday evenings posts, and your comment, you might want to read Danny Goldhagen’s “Hitlers Willing Executioners”. The book has flaws but is still worth reading.
So rockin’, Jane.
Yeah, apparently real news is too difficult for journalists to report on. I mean, out of today’s hearing, expecting them to cover:
Oh, wait — a press release about Lindsay Blowhan. Let’s run that at the top of the cycle!
What a bunch of wankers the MSM have become! (I know, old news.)
BigMitch @ 29
Would “coke whore” be uncivil?
eCAHNomics @ 24
That was a good one, and it did pass the rules!
realworld @ 25
I am all for impeaching Gonzales, though I’m not sure how well it would go. The WH would only stonewall. It could turn out to be disastrous.
If he lied before Congress under oath, which he clearly did, can’t they just charge him with that and be done with him? Does that entail hiring a special prosecutor and everything?
nytimes on today, updated 13 mins ago. Again, will be interesting to watch this reporting evolve over the day. The quote below was not present in the story 30 mins ago…
It is beyond scholarly dispute that the intent of our constitutional Framers was that [1] the activities of those entrusted with the public’s business were to remain public absent showing of independently confirmable compelling need for their being kept “private”/secret, and that [2] the activities of private citizens were to remain private absent showing of independently confirmable objective compelling need for their being breached by government.
The principal legacy of the Bu’ush Party will have been the complete and tragic inversion of these founding principles.
Oh, Jane — would that they take your advice and show some Whitehouse questioning. Hell, would that the rest of the Dems in Congress would get Whitehouse to give a seminar on how he is so effective at cross-examination.
Jeebus, I have a headache from all that Gonzales dodge and phony show lying bonanza. (H/T to reader dude for that phrase. I’m gonna keep using that one…)
noen @ 36
Skip impeachment, subject them to a war crimes trial based on torture and lying us into an occupation based on lies.
My MSM clip prediction:
Senator Kyl expresses grave concern about gambling in sports…
It’s the old formula, isn’t it? Bread and circuses will keep ‘em happy, or at least ignorant. I swear somedays I’m living in a bad Star Trek episode.
BTW, thank you Christy and FDL for the liveblogging of Gonzalez’s day before the Senate. He’ll always be Abu to me.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 28
There is really very little that they can do. Politics is the art of the possible and some things are simply not possible in the current situation. When you have a one vote majority it is very hard to accomplish much. That is just how the system is set up.
These are very dangerous times my friend tells me. When a wild animal is cornered problems may arise.
Wasn’t today (or was it last week) the day of the “surprise” some Democrat promised?
Suprise…you thought we would actually do something.
GeorgeSimian @ 37
There you go. What’s so “difficult” and “dangerous?” Here’s the video of Gonza saying this and here’s the video of Gonza saying that. It’s a lie. He’s guilty. Next case.
How tough is that?
redX @ 46
That was Feingold, and it was about Reid’s overnighter.
noen @ 27
I agree. The Gonzalez hearing should be reported as a celebrity scandal; it certainly has all the elements, if it weren’t being suppressed by the repub media heads.
On to the next one – Sara Taylor was asked to appear for a deposition with Waxman on or before today. Does anyone know if she showed? This is the one that may implicate Rove.
Docs here
noen @ 44
There I go. Being an idealist again. ;0)
perris @ 15
let’s be brutally graphic;
the test of torture is loss of life or limb, I am telling you this is in no way the test of torture, nor would anyone even presume to make that claim…unless they are trying to forgive yourself from conducting that torture
I can drill into the root of your tooth, risk neither life nor limb, you will be in such pain you would rather take your own life, and you will surely know torture
I can drip water on your head, drop by drop, risk neither life nor limb, and you will surely know torture
I can pull your fingernails out on at a time, risk neither life nor limb
I can have savages sodomize your daughter, your son, your wife…in front of you, I will not suffer you any pain at all, yet you will know the full measure of torture
I can have savages sodomize a man with a 2 by four, in front of their own daughter, their wife, their son…this will be torture to each of them
and beyond any of that, it’s a fact you have no clue if people have lost life or limb from what we’ve done, you wouldn’t know, nobody would know
what we have done went far beyond what the military was willing to accept, this is also a fact
there is no doubt, you have changed your opinion…now that you’ve found it’s your president, why his torture is fine, it’s Saddam’s torture you were talking about
I on the one hand think the military have MUCH better choices for success then this administration
you think this administration making decisions that fly in the face of their advice is the best direction
this administration’s decisions already have a track record
the decisions have created more terrorism, more terrorists, their decisions have turned moderates into radicals and radicals into heroes among Iraqis…this is a fact, reported by the presidents own agencies, it cannot be denied…in the very best light, his decisions have bread terrorism and hatred toward America
One fear I have is that people who like power come in all colors, both red and blue. Right now the Dems have a shot at the presidency, or, perhaps better stated, it is theirs to lose. Are our Dems really interested in dismantling the monarchy that BushCo has created? Is that part of their foot dragging? Throw enough light on the Repugs mess to get elected, but not enough to dismantle the reins of power leading into the WH?
i’ve been watching this lock step power grab for what seems like forever and ten another day. it’s been organized perfectly so far. good luck to everyone who’s screaming “the house is on fire”. whatever you do…don’t follow the masses.Steve-AR @ 32
Slothrop @ 47
it might get the powder ‘wet.’
Check out Marcy’s take on Cheney/DOJ:
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/
plainjane @ 20
OK just did. Thanks so much for FDL. I wish I could give more
I’d like to cast my vote to leapfrog over CNN. They cut their chops on Gulf War I when the rest of the MSM was trying to give another Bush whitewashing. Now CNN is as firmly woven into the fabric of the machine as nearly any other main stream news source. That is a battle almost not worth waging. I’m much more pleased with alternative news sources.
Granted, I can see how it will be a question of whether or not to alter the practices of organizations like CNN who continue to spoon feed pablum to a willing audience — but lets fight that battle from a stronger and higher reference point. If better forms of alternative news sources are embraced by a hungry populace, then there is much more leverage to go back to CNN and tell them to clean up their act.
LS @ 41
I don’t see that working out well. Who would preside over the hearing? How would it be set up? You want a trial in front of a judge? Which one? In which district? Or do you want it tried by the SOTUS?
It would be a mess and end badly.
noen @ 27
Good point, as far as it goes.
The first observation is that we are not the consumers of media. We are the product, delivered to the customer who pays the bill, viz., advertisers.
The Media are very smart. They know what will help them to net more fish, (that is to say, snare more viewers, whose attention is sold to advertisers.) They can promote a story, but will do so, only if they determine that the public wants to see it.
This is a complicated calculus. Part of it is what are the visuals. A story about that former playboy bunny who married a billionaire and died in the bahamas (sorry, I forgot her name) had good visuals.
You would think that importance is an important variable, but experience teaches otherwise. The media can only promote a story that resonates with something that the public wants to hear. This explains why feel good stories about how our troops performed outnumber stories about criminal conduct by troops, even though each instance of the latter is extremely detrimental to our efforts in Iraq.
I just want to know how many times they are going to drag his sorry ass up for “hearings”, in which he lies, and not DO anything. Can someone please tell me the point if they’re not going to impeach him?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 45
This is why I take comfort when the GOP and pundits become really shrill. Like BillO for example. The louder he screams, the more success I feel. Even if JetBlue did cave, I like it when he’s freaking out. That’s a good thing.
I wish Dems would take note that GOP noise is a sign that they are succeeding.
I also wish checks and balances were between institutions, not parties.
i’d love to see senator whitehouse give the HJC an assist on their gonzales impeachment investigation hearings.
LS @ 41
You can’t indict a sitting president (so I’ve read).
Doesn’t Abu have huge motive/incentive to conflict with Comey’s testimony about Ashcroft, the hospital, what needed signing when, and for what purpose? To me it sounded as if Abu said Comey had it wrong.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 51
Nothing wrong with idealism Kiddo. I’m an idealist too. But there are political realities that we have to acknowledge and deal with. That is how we can be most effective, when you take reality as it is.
noen @ 36
Gonzo isn’t worth impeaching. Cheney and Bush are the targets.
Cujo359 @ 43
Well, there certainly are a lot of Tribbles around.
Jan @ 61
There really is an upside to this, Jan. If Gonzo is busy preparing for more testimony and actually testifying and then having to do something all fluffy to make the testifying look like a good thing, he’s too damned busy to actually screw up the DOJ any further than he already has.
Granted, I’d rather know for certain this was all leading to the impeachment of senior administration officials, but harassing this one enough to keep him out of the way of real law enforcement folks will do in the interim.
LS @ 41
Exactly..not enough votes to convict any of these criminals in the Senate. They need to keep up the exposure and turn the public opinion in favor of indictments under USC Title 18.2141. After last night discussion, that is the only path to regaining any respect for this country.
Alberto Gonzales is the result of senators, for years and years and years, not taking their advice and consent role seriously. This notion that the President should get whomever he wants for his cabinet needs to go away. The Senate was given the power to confirm for a reason—to prevent unqualified toadies like Gonzales from assuming powerful positions. I thought this fecklessness by senators hit a low point when they confirmed Ashcroft because he was an ex-senator (gah!), but Gonzales has shown that Bush was able to plumb the depths of foul waste deeper than anyone could imagine.
Sandra Day O’Connor deserves special contempt in our history for giving us the Bush government, but every senator that voted to confirm Gonzales can sit as her handmaiden.
The meeting with the gang of 8, prior to the hospital run, was that revealed for the first time today?
Sometimes I just have to take a deep breath. And not go for it. Yet. ;0)
If Congress can’t deal with this, they have no power left.
This guy is a lying, incompentent fool. He’s lied under oath, broken the law. He has no business running the DOJ.
Let’s just hope Bush doesn’t stick Yoo in there as his recess.
BigMitch @ 60
Actually, what I am saying Mich is that what the public wants to hear is driven by media. What you want and what you think is important is determined for you. Your wants needs and desires are controlled and manipulated into predetermined goals.
BigMitch @ 20
Patrick Fitzgerald
that said, a fairly ‘liberal’ (not progressive) co-worker identifies Fitz as a ‘Conservative Republican’
While this may be half true (I think conservative, as in Law ‘n’ Order C, is not far off the mark), I think she is confusing our Fitz with Jack Fitzgerald, a local Republican Congresscritter who suggester Patrick in the first place.
Message being, that even ‘our’ side may be guilty of glossing over the details.
noen @ 59
on the other hand it would be an amazing way to communicate with the public.
day after day after day after day.
yellow ribbons. no pink. no purple.
michael moore visits. cindy sheehan visits. ted kennedy visits. the nurses visits. the injured iraq war vets visit. the hearings go on 24/7. on and on and on.
Bring it.
Round two.
He is lucky they haven’t pried up the rock he crawled under already.
Aha!! From commenter Neil on Marcy’s Cheney/DOJ post:
” Posted by: Neil | July 24, 2007 at 14:07
FWIW, Jeff and Posaune, I’m more worried about Cheney interfering with the Mitch Wade investigation than the Plame one. Wade has bragged he had Dick in his back pocket. Dick hired Wade for his first contract, and MZM appears to have been intimately involved in the other domestic surveillance program, the TALON/CIFA program. You know, the one from whihc the records were unfunded and disappeared when people started looking closely.“
That would explain “other intelligence activities”, as well as interference in the Cunningham investigation which was ongoing, which brings us right to Lam and the USAs.
GeorgeSimian @ 74
Do you think doing so would be more or less contemptuous of congress than parading into the halls of congress with a sign hanging his neck reading: Fuck you dickheads. What are you going to do about it?”
Or about the same?
wigwam @ 63
From my reading it can be done, there is nothing in the Constitution to prevent it. SCOTUS has be schizophrenic on the subject, ie no one is above the law but the President is to important to be subject to the law. If it became an issue, Roberts has Bush covered 5-4.
realworld @ 67
Will not happen because it cannot happen. There are not enough votes, period.
michael moore visits. cindy sheehan visits. ted kennedy visits. the nurses visits. the injured iraq war vets visit. the hearings go on 24/7. on and on and on
oops. did i say hearings?
i meant indictments.
by whose authority? by the authority of the people.
Steve-AR @ 70
Without impeachment no one will serve a day in jail for anything. It is a Bush family tradition to offer blanket pardons on the way out the door.
It is also to early to say we don’t have the votes. If, after hearings and a trial, we don’t have the votes we don’t have them but at least we will have tried. But the fact that a motion to convict would fail today is no reason not to try to set the ground for the day it will pass.
IMPEACH Cheney and Bush.
Gonzales pretty much referred to Goodling as “That Woman.” He should keep it up. It’d be a good thing if the Rove/Taylor/Goodling/Kyle/Gonzo gang were broken up and say, Goodling felt she got the shaft, and Sara Taylor decided that she didn’t actually make an oath to the preznit, etc.
“Sweet tapdancing Jesus, just do something to say “enough” and convince us that we are not looking at the New World Order because nobody wants to get their hands dirty.”
;0) ;0)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 86
the investigation into the new world order is postponed pending a dress code review. :-)
puppethead @ 71
I just wonder what pressure they laid on her to get her to resign. That whole thing smells … There must have been something pretty heavy they threatened her with.
BigMitch @ 80
That’s basically what he’s been saying for the last year. And Cheney too.
Clearly, BushCo. is daring Congress to impeach _________________(Fill in your favorite villain). A good measure of how they’ve been able to control this meme is that yesterday, Cokie Roberts referred to censure & impeachment as “piling on” by Democrats, as if it were a mere partisan exercise. (See Election 2008,
CNN and YouTube, and the Next U.S. President, by Steve Inskeep and Cokie Roberts). She said nothing at all about the numerous high crimes and misdemeanors that are the reason why censure and/or impeachment are needed. We need to call them on this miscarriage of journalism, and insist on better reporting.
We also need to start using NPR’s “Pitch page” to suggest stories to them that reach a little deeper than Lindsay Lohan’s latest blemish.
Bob back in HI
noen @ 75
There is a hard core of people who would rather watch Paris Hilton than Pat Leahy. And nothing the media can do will change their opinion. Even though I am sure you and I agree that Pat Leahy is more important.
Bustednuckles @ 78
I’m pretty sure holy joe would get the nod…I know most people think he wouldn’t be willing to give up his senate seat but I dissagree
he will think he has a shot at the repub vp slot and that’s what he wants
it’s win win here for the republicans and bush since a republican names joes replacement
and joe sails through confirmation even from the democrats
it’s joe as far as I can see
My friend tells me she has no patience with the attitude that the Democrats can do nothing.
Impeach
Cheney, Bush, Gonzo, and as many little hatchlings as can be found.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 77
Would not happen. It would be covered like Gonzales’ appearance was today. Barely at all.
Next idea?
Steve-AR @ 81
The subject was discussed extensively in the days of Watergate. Remember the term “unindicted co-conspirator?” My recollection is that most people agreed that he could have been indicted. Now, does precedent matter to this SCOTUS? Don’t get me started.
noen @ 58
In 1996, the Republicans passed and Clinton signed the War Crimes Act, which gave federal courts jurisdiction over certain violations of the Geneva Conventions, in particular, Common Article 3, which SCOTUS indicated Bush has violated with his original military tribunals (Hamdan v. Rumsfeld).
The Military Commissions Act (MCA) was among other things an attempt to undo the War Crimes Act and to give everyone involved in GWoT retroactive immunity from war crimes prosecution. It is sufficiently complicated that I can’t tell if they’ve succeeded, but SCOTUS has ruled that federal courts federal courts can no longer hear Habeas Corpus case for alien detainees accused of being enemy combatants.
Also, the Republicans have taken many step to remove U.S. personnel from jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court — see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…..inal_Court
Only a coup will do
BigMitch @ 72
Of course it was cheneybushco that provided the “intelligence” to the gangofeight so it really does not matter one hoot what they said, decided or believed as they were working off a pack of lies.
Even a second grader could see that gonzo was lying through his teeth but the question is what in heaven’s name is going to be done about it. Surely he must be held in contempt, how can he not be.
The kabuki dance has to draw to a close. Impeach, indict, incarcerate….and I don’t give a damn who.
noen @ 95
if nothing is going to be covered than create an alternative reality.
an uncovered alternative reality.
Bay State Librul @ 98
Sounds like a song title.
This picture of Abu testifying at the NY Times is amazing. Look at the line of aids behind him–they all look like petulant children. And is one of them helium-voice Bradley? Or is it simply that all Regent University grads look alike?
Liberals keep trying to take away our constitutional rights. You’ll have to pry Lindsay Lohan out of my cold dead hands.
It would be great if FDL and the progressive blogosphere initiated an anti-recess campaign, along the lines of what we did to force the Republicans to actually filibuster.
If our Democratic representatives permit recess to occur, they deserve our scorn. We all know that Bush will use recess as an opportunity to appoint new fixers to last him through the end of his term in office. We need to give our representatives fair warning that going into recess is totally unacceptable.
BigMitch @ 91
Ummm no Mitch, I don’t agree on the first point. Paris Hilton is a media created figure.
Congress needs to open an impeachment inquiry on Gonzales. It doesn’t matter if there aren’t enough votes to convict today. The conviction vote is not today. I’m tired of this “boo-hoo, there aren’t enough votes” BS. They need to start the inquiry, not because it’s do-able, but because it is their duty. You are either one of the three co-equal branches, or you’re not. You are either for the Constitution, Congress, or you’re not. If you’re not, then quit picking on Gonzales.
realworld @ 84
I agree. KagroX made the same point. If Congress doesn’t show their disapproval, then the WH behavior becomes precedent. On the other hand, the majority of the Repub. Senators are active members of the conspiracy ie Hatch or are enablers, Specter. There will never be 17 votes during this Congress for a conviction. I think the best we can do is attack, throw sand in the gears and promise them that they will have their day in court. If there is any goal, it’s not impeach or Hague, but 11 Senate seats; it’s possible.
Hey, guess what! Here’s a reason why we can’t bring those Iraqis who helped America, over here to prevent them from being revenge-killed. According to Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) on Cspan this morning, we shouldn’t do it because then there won’t be any quality Iraqis to run Iraq when we leave. These guys are
dead meatthe political and intellectual capital of Iraq.So tomorrow the House Judiciary Committee votes on whether to hold Harriet Miers and Josh Bolton in contempt. Then what happens? Seriously.
Then. What. Happens?
I have to leave for a bit, but I will be right back. It appears that Brittany is telling friends she is pregnant. Any idea who the father is?? I must go and find out. Very important!!!
Overreach against the Clinton administration did not seem to hurt the Republicans at that time, it seemed to help them.
Just start impeaching someone. Do SOMETHING other than have more and more hearings. They are leading no where, and are taking on shades of a charade to appease the dems base. Get on with it!!
realworld @ 67
Amen. Gonzo is still there only because of Bush. No Bush, no Gonzo.
Woodhall Hollow @ 102
his pre-smirk grimace is in place but it’s the eyes that tell it all.
Any sentence containing the phrase “not enough votes” is a cop out and an invitation to continue the flushing into the toilet of the Constitution.
This must have been what it felt like in Germany when reasonable, decent folks just kept letting it go. There’s no reason to do anything about it, really, especially since there are “not enough votes.”
There was a great line spoken by Phil Leotardo in one of the final episodes of The Sopranos; it was to the effect of:
“We take out the head, and do business with what’s left.”
So, we impeach (the civilized way to “take out”) Cheney and Bush. And the evidence that will uncover will surely bring about conviction in the Senate, meaning removal from office. Then we can set about doing business with what’s left, even if “doing business” means “removing from office”, too, if the well-being of our democracy calls for it.
Our Congress must take action against this Administration. AGAG’s performance only reinforces my opinion.
What we need is an action that will open up hearings that will demonstrate to the American people what this Administration is all about. Unfortunately there are so MANY crimes, and there is so MUCH subterfuge that the average American thinks it’s just some whining Democrats wanting the Republicans to ‘play fair’.
Of course, since the MSM is doing nothing to expose this Administration, it is a tough uphill battle. The Dems in Congress MUST be firm and tough on these issues. Censure is a good start. Impeachment is even better.
Unfortunately this Administration has stacked the deck and has been so arrogant about its crimes that it will take drastic, dramatic action to bring the crimes to light, stop the damage to our democracy, and hold them responsible for their actions.
This is the difficult course that our Congresspeople MUST embark on to save the democracy. They must not worry about their personal political futures – them MUST get the truth exposed.
lee5 @ 88
Her husband has alzheimer’s. She’d wanted to retire for quite some time, her husband was quoted years ago as saying no way would she retire under a Democratic president. So it seems likely that she put her own personal comfort ahead of doing the right thing for this nation by installing Bush as king instead of siding with democracy.
I’ve been feeling so angry and powerless about the Constitutional crisis we are going through that when vacation rolled around I decided not to follow my usual collection of blogs and news sites.
So now I’m back and what is surfacing is dirtier and more horrible and disheartening than the news before I left. Today we find out from Abu Gonzales, as expected from his earlier testimony, that there are OTHER domestic spying programs Congressional oversight hasn’t even begun to touch. Our Government really has become a criminal enterprise aided and abetted by the Justice Department.
I have begun to question if our country will ever recover from the systematic striping of our rights and the corruption and crony-ism that has infected every level of government.
Stonewalling Congressional inquiries and simply ignoring subpoenas is standard operating proceedure. Even if we want to fix things, how can anyone, Democratic or Republican, be expected pursue the will of the people, to follow the process outlined in the Constitution in an attempt to alter the course of our rotten- to- the- core Ship of State when the administration doesn’t consider itself bound to play by the same rules? How can Congress address lying and obsfucation on the part of Bush Administration hacks when our Justice Department refuses to pursue contempt of Congress charges — or truly to respond to legistative concerns in anything but the most facile, unctious and disingenuous manner.
I am one of the more active in my very politically- engaged circle of friends and I find myself almost ready to check out; to throw up my hands and nothing can be done. Perhaps our Government IS too broken to mend. Perhaps I should simply be thankful of the fact I live in the bluest of the blue states and that the Christo-fascist tentacles of our national government will be slower to strangle the liberty out of my everyday life than in some areas.
I just don’t see a clear way out of this mess or a person of strong enough character to help us discover one.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 100
You don’t get an alternative reality. Reality is all there is ’cause there ain’t no more.
One alternative media source is here at FDL. The only reason I even know about the hearings today is because of the internet. They are not covered very well by NPR and I do not get CNN 3 on my cable.
Impeachment hearings of anyone less than Bush or Cheney would get exactly the same treatment I think.
Helen @ 109
Good article on inherent contempt.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01802.html
Woodhall Hollow @ 102
I think that is Alice Fisher on the far right of the picture.
Alice is a major Republican fixer who has thus far evaded significant media scrutiny.
CW @ 117
Amen.
Imagine if a committee had been struck to discuss and vote on whether Cubism would succeed as an art form.
PPP @ 111
democrats yearn for over reach, we want our country back and we want these criminals held to account
this coutry will celebrate when these criminals are brought before the bar of justice to answer for what they have done to us and our children
Bay State Librul @ 98
third in 12 years? Only this time “for our side”? I’d sure like to see us win “fair and square”. Might need taking to the streets, but sure want to see elections with votes counted …
Steve-AR @ 107
I am in total agreement with KagroX and you on this. This is the best way forward. Not because it is the best way, but because it is the only option available to us. There are no others.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 123
I not sure if it will
nomolos @ 127
:-)
newtonusr @ 13
Absolutely not, unless the phrase is used as an adjective. “My coke-whore neighbor,” but “My neighbor is a coke whore.” This point is very often missed. Just because a phrase is hyphenated when used as an adjective doesn’t mean it’s hyphenated all the time.
Another example: “The patient had a 5-cm splinter in his foot” but “The length of the splinter was 5 cm.” I could go on for hours about this, but I don’t think FDL would benefit.
Definitely, impeaching the AG is a good idea, but at the moment, Congressional Democrats seem to have many ways of proving that acting on good ideas is not a good idea. For example, I am still mystified by Feingold’s non-support of impeachment (by the House, of course. The Senate can’t impeach).
puppethead @ 118
There’s more too it than that – Chief Justice Rehnquist kind of pushed O’Connor out before she was ready to go. She thought she would step down after he did, but he stayed on and eventually died.
Does the Second Program vacuum all of our information into a database?
Who has access to that database?
Who can name targets?
Who audits and reviews this program?
Who sets policies for this program?
Can the program be abused?
Could political enemies, journalists and the mega-rich be ‘monitored’?
Is it okay to have covert domestic surveillance beyond the reach of legislative oversight and judicial review?
Where is America?
It’s much worse than that. Letting them get away with it is a moral hazard (reward for bad behavior) of the highest magnitude. Any future prez would do not only what W has done, but seeing W did not get punished, would push it farther. Without impeachment, the republic is doomed.
That and global warnings are too reasons that make me happy I’m beyond middle-age.
What Wigwam wrote in #97 -
Makes me not want more familial presidencies ever with HRC, or another infected Bush. As I believe Chimpy does/did for Daddy and Daddy’s buddies, I think HRC’s actions or inactions could, as president, be in response to Bill Clinton’s record of actions. We would not have the full weight of the presidency and some things would be off the table, or even preordained due to having to line up with a family member’s past decision.
as silly as it seems I recall a once well-known quote from Jerry Rubin:
Do It!
CW @ 117
They are doing something, they are taking action. They are taking the best possible course open to them. They cannot do more because the impeachment that you want cannot happen right now. Perhaps at a later time it can if there is enough of a ground swell in favor, but for right now it just isn’t possible.
radiofreewill @ 131
All of the above.
My Q is, where has all of this spying gotten them? Where are the results?
None to be found in terrorism prevention. All those silly arrests have stemmed from
undercover agentsprovacatuers.Politically, they’ve kept existing members of congress and the MSM in their pockets thru blackmail, but they lost bad in 06 and will lose even worse in 08.
Does Dick Cheney run the Second Program?
Why else would he have been involved in the argument with Comey over re-authorization?
Cheney appears to have the same ‘access’ to the Second Program as Bush.
Is it reasonable to conclude that the Second Program was Cheney’s baby?
Another Jane smackdown upstairs.
Impeach Abu Already
radiofreewill @ 137
Yes.
This has been another episode of simple answers to simple questions.
litbrit @ 116
That’s a nice little fantasy you got there. Unfortunately it cannot happen. When you have a razor thin one vote majority and an opposition that will stick together you cannot impeach. It would be the worst thing the Dems could possibly do.
BigMitch @ 96
Thanks for that background.
UGGGG! When Bush has a press conference and says the inevitable “the AG has my full confidence”, as he has said each time AGAG has testified before a committee, I may need a new TV.
How can one who has studied the Law (supposedly) and sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution sit so smugly before Congress and lie his face off and/or play (or maybe not play) dumb?
Why all the warmongers in the Neo-Con Bush malAdministration so hot for multiple wars now, where was their passion for war when they were ASKED to serve and Fight?
Ralph @ 129
Because it cannot happen. What part of “We don’t have the votes” don’t you understand?
noen @ 36
What would the WH have to do with impeachment of the AG? Nothing I can see! They don’t have to ask his permission or anything. Bush couldn’t even pardon Gonzo. It would be a direct smack in the face, and there’s really not much he could do about it that he isn’t already doing or planning on doing anyway. This is something concrete and doable.
wigwam @ 64
Under whose auspices would a war crimes trial be conducted?
They never got the votes to impeach Clinton and they did it ANYWAY!
dreams die hard don’t they.
the washington (D) Party is doing all they can do, and this is it.
political kabuki designed to give them enough cover against the outrage of their constituents, yet not scare the big money donors and powerful-lobbies-on-trial-for-espionage.
run out the clock, make some speeches, have some investigations (oh my!) get stonewalled on all requests for evidence, refer your refused subpeonas to Abu’s Just-Us Department and the politicized judges Bush has appointed, don’t rock the boat and be the little engine that could in 2008, and expect everyone to beleive that you really really wanted to restore the Constitution and end the criminal war, but oh it was too heavy and wee wee wee just couldn’t lift it.
so vote for us and we’ll try again, oh really we will, we promise not to pull the football away again at the last second, trust us, Charlie Brown!
But as has been pointed out here more eloquently – powers ceded and crimes enabled become precedent, and the guilty simply become greedy for more.
quivering-knee assertions that “we didn’t have the votes” are going to be indescribably bitter if even a portion of the Regime’s worst case scenarios are allowed to play out.
Helen @ 109
A good question. What is the effect of this? Do we get to put somebody in jail? My guess is that ultimately whatever the effects are, they have to be enforced by the Justice Department, and God alone knows if that will happen…
Coach Noen of the 1980 USA Olympic Hockey Team:
“Don’t even try to shoot on net, guys. Those Russians are huge, they’re fast, they’re unified, they’re gonna crush you like they did the NFL all-star team last year, and you’re just a bunch of of plumbers and carpenters and college guys.
Those Russians are like cyborgs, they’re pros, thats all they do, they’re invincible, they’re juiced up on some mad-scientist shit thats illegal in the civilized world, your only chance is to keep your powder dry and all try to huddle behind your own net, that way they won’t hurt you.
Then in 2012, we’ll have had time to study what they did, judicioulsy, if you will, and we will try again, and maybe eke out a tie. So go out there, and try not to let your knees quiver too much!”
Of course the analogy is off, because the underdog Team USA wanted to win, whereas most of team (D) does not want to help save the Constitution they took an oath to defend, and those few that do have been disincentivized somehow in ways that are not clear to anyone.
noen @ 145
That’s civil. The Dems are only a little more likely to find 60 votes to censure as they are to find 67 votes to convict in an impeachment trial, so why is Feingold pursuing censure? After all, it’ll take away valuable time from Republican obstruction there just like an impeachment trial, and, if passed, will have about as much effect as an unsuccesful impeachment trial.
I guess my point is, any attempt to hold the admin accountable has to come from the House.
If Congress can’t deal with this, they have no power left.
This guy is a lying, incompentent fool. He’s lied under oath, broken the law. He has no business running the DOJ.
Let’s just hope Bush doesn’t stick Yoo in there as his recess.
Yoo is a psychopath. oh. my. god.
That Cheney has access to Department of Justice info and their decision-making process was as chilling as any news I’ve heard in some time. We all know what he does with information. I have no doubt that he was reviewing Patrick Fitzgerald’s case as it was being built.
Milan River @ 134
Very right. The Clintons are strictly a family business and they only sell second rate, low look product. It is a shame that we have to compare them to the Bush family business.
leftdcin72 @ 155
What does it mean “Your comment is awaiting moderation”
“Linda — you’re absolutely fantastic!”
Jane that is because you are in farenheit 451.
oooooooweoo1 Shades of the “outer limits”.
Great rant! Fahrenheit 451 with the big screens on the wall of every affluent home assuring complete distraction and misdirection by the ruling party. It’s a good fit.
As much as I loved my former Senator, Lincoln Chafee and before him his father John Chafee (even though I am thoroughly a democrat leaning independent), Sheldon Whitehouse has surprised me to no end. I held my nose to vote for him because I wanted the Dems to get the majority. He has been rabid in going after Abu and others and I really appreciate it. I don’t want to play politics, I hate it, but right is right. We are in a crisis in this country and have been for years. Please expose these crooks and frauds to the wider public and get them the hell out of the government!
noen @ 36
The Senate has already sussed out a lot of information and it’s more than enough to get the impeachment through. There’s no downside for Dems, the House or America.
Informing the public through public televised impeachment hearings which largely go through the information the SJC has gathered would be very powerful.
do-si-do @ 62
I agree and include in that trolls who call for the impeachment of Bush. They try to distract us from the best course and they scream in pain and to try and distract the media.
However, Dems must know their cause is just or wait. And, if they know they’re right they should just act, decisively, simply, and don’t reflect.
noen @ 82
In case of talk of impeaching the president I agree. But, with the AG I don’t agree. I think it’s worthwhile to go after him for several reasons.
If we fail to extricate him it’s no worse than him being there now, and as someone noted, it’s harder for him to screw things up if he’s defending an impeachment indictment.
But, there’s always the upside of displaying his incompetence and criminality to the public and forcing Congressional Republicans into oblivion. And, there’s also the obvious demonstration Dems will impeach (whomever) when the time is right.
fdl reader @ 148
We don’t mimic idiotic Republicans. It’s not the “in” thing to do this year.
We’re trying to (suggest to our Dem leaders they should) govern well. And, right now the Bush admin needs to be governed quite a lot.