Been wondering why you’re paying $3.00 a gallon — or more — lately? The main reason, according to Jad Mouawad of the New York Times, is because there’s a bottleneck in US refining capacity, which means that the least little disruption causes higher prices:
There have been blazes at refineries in Louisiana, Texas, Indiana and California, some of them caused by lightning strikes. Plants have suffered power losses that disrupted operations; a mid-size refinery in Kansas was flooded by torrential rains last month.
American refiners are running approximately 5 percent below their normal levels at this time of the year.
”You have a system that is taxed to the limit,” said Adam Robinson, an energy research analyst at Lehman Brothers. ”This is what happens when spare capacity is eroded.”
Ah, but why is that spare capacity eroded? We find out one key reason in the very next paragraph:
After Hurricanes Katrina and Rita disrupted the nation’s energy lifeline almost two years ago, oil companies delayed maintenance on many of their plants to make up for lost supplies and take advantage of the high prices. But, analysts say, they are now paying a price for deferring repairs.
Oh, but we’re not supposed to blame the oil companies’ greed for any of this:
Some critics of the industry have theorized on Internet blogs that the squeeze on gasoline and other refined products points to a deliberate effort among oil companies to bolster profits by keeping supplies tight. But experts point out that the companies have little incentive right now to hold back on fuel supplies.
”Every refinery would like to run as much crude as possible, but they simply can’t,” said David Greely, senior energy economist at Goldman Sachs, who in a recent report compared the drop in domestic refining to an ”invisible hurricane.”
Oh, really? Then how do you explain this piece of news, from earlier this year:
Chevron exec: Ethanol means no new refineries
Investment doesn’t make sense, despite U.S. need to import gasolineWASHINGTON – A top Chevron Corp. executive said Tuesday the push to displace as much as a fifth of the country’s gasoline with ethanol will make it less likely the industry will build new domestic refineries.
“We’ll take all the ethanol that corn growers produce. We’ll use that enthusiastically” as a 10-percent blend with gasoline, Peter J. Robertson, Chevron’s vice chairman, said in an interview with The Associated Press.
But Robertson, the No. 2 executive at the country’s second largest oil company after Exxon, said he questions whether a goal of a 20-percent reduction in gasoline use, largely by substituting ethanol, can be achieved by 2017 as President Bush has urged.
[...]
When asked if the company might invest in a new U.S. refinery, Robertson had a quick answer:
“Why would I invest in a refinery when you’re trying to make 20 percent of the gasoline supply ethanol?”
And it’s not just Chevron’s Robertson saying this, either. Here’s an article from just last month:
Only last year, the Energy Department was told that refiners, reaping big profits and anticipating growing demand, were looking at boosting their refining capacity by more than 1.6 million barrels a day, a roughly 10 percent increase. That would be enough to produce an additional 37 million gallons of gasoline daily.
But oil companies already have scaled those expansion plans back by nearly 40 percent. More cancellations are expected if Congress passes legislation now before the Senate calling for 15 billion gallons of ethanol use by 2015 and more than double that by 2022, say industry and government officials.
“These (expansion) decisions are being revisited in boardrooms across the refining sector,” said Charlie Drevna, executive vice president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association.
With the anticipated growth in biofuels, “you’re getting down to needing little or no additional gasoline production” above what is being made today, said Joanne Shore, an analyst for the government’s Energy Information Administration.
And of course, those of us with memories that go back at least six years remember all too well the similar-sounding excuses used to explain why so many power plants were taken offline back in 2000 and 2001, and why energy costs were shooting through the roof even though demand was not, as Dick Cheney’s buddies at Enron and other companies were busy raping the state of California and other places foolish enough to deregulate their public utilities.
Related posts:





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

Really like the format, really like Cooper Anderson as a moderator. Still not one question about one of the most critical issues in the middle east…How would any one of these candidates deal any differently with the Israeli Palestinian conflict than previous Presidents?
Zed
Hair!
Hi PW,
sorry you have to compete with the debate!
Excellent post, PW!!! The rich get richer…
Hi everyone, getting here late I guess…
Hey Fire Pups, thanks for watching the CNN U-tube debate with me tonight and sharing your opinions. I appreciate the opportunity to read your comments.
There was a refinery fire in Indiana? News to me. The only refinery I’m aware of here is Rock Island, and if there was a fire, it must not have been much of one. Invisible hurricane, indeed.
fwiw, best line of the night might belong to ACooper. Each candidate asked to say something about the person to his/her left – Kucinich says there was no person to his left.
AC – “Not sure we could find anyone to your left”
Credit where due.
This story caught my eye yesterday.
There was a good post up a dKos over the weekend.
it’s more then this, I don’t have the links but a while back frankin had on his show some of the experts telling us that as big oil consolidated to mega oil they turned down the most prolifica and profitable refineraries
and what about selling OUR oil on the open international market?
WHAT THE FRIG IS UP WITH THAT???
that’s OUR oil, it’s NOT the oil companies oil, they RENT THE RIGHT TO REFINE AMERICA’S OIL, it is a NATIONAL ASSET, a NATIONAL RESOURCE and they have NO bussiness acting like it’s their stuff
IT’S OUR STUFF AND I WANT MY STUFF BACK
I DON’T want them selling it overseas GA DAMN IT
American oil BELIONGS IN AMERICA, not on the international market
PERIOD
jayt @ 9
And credit to Dennis, who responded (para) “You won’t find anyone more mainstream than I am on health care and Iraq.”
There are many ‘Enrons’ still with us. And these guys call it capitalism. Well yes. If that means “whatever the market will bear”. I call it greed. There will be a breaking point. We just haven’t gotten there yet.
CNN in spin room:
“This debate looked like Gladys Knight and the Pips. It was Hillary head and shoulders above everyone else.
“Obama looked inexperienced.”
The focus group had it, Obama, Biden, Edwards in that order. (????!!!)
Record breaking oil profits
http://www.consumersunion.org/…..01086.html
TeddySanFran, remember this question?
You gotta make a YouTube of it for the GOP debate in September.
Hi PW — great post. The only way to undertake honest conversion from a fossil-fuels-based economy to the next economy is by nationalizing the oil companies as a national security asset. The profit motive will never allow us to move off petroleum, and we will see Mad Max scenarios soon if we don’t.
Thanks for this post — I’m always shocked at the heartless market manipulation by oil executives, but that’s capitalism for ya.
JayT, Rock Island has been closed for a while. Amoco has a big one up in Whiting (Da Region) and I think that’s where the issue was.
Kathleen @ 16
and yet the maggots in office saw fit to give them the largest tax giveaway in global history…on the back of the largest profit in the entire history of planet earth
what the FRIG is wrong with Americans that sit by and allow these maggots to give away our stuff,our parents, stuff, our kids stuff and our grandkids stuff
to people so wealthy they will never ever spend it
I tend to think that not adding capaicty was the right decision. We should not be investing in more petroleum processing capacity. And a consequence of that is higher profits. Windfall profits in fact. That sort of thing happens when there are structural economic changes. So where are the windfall taxes? That is the missing piece.
perris @ 19
Lulled to sleep by American Idol and Paris Hilton going to jail…
Should we expect the oil industry to pay for their mistakes? They can’t be responsible for keeping these things working if they aren’t getting the kickback checks. Why would anyone expect them to keep their refineries working and fully functional?
Throw them a bone here. The billions they are getting in tax breaks and royalty free leases on oil producing grounds just aren’t cutting it if you expect them to have gas when you need it. What are they paying their pet politicians for? Have to stop this kind of talk or they will purchase your contract too.
realworld @ 20
**DING!!!**
Air is higher too. My local gas station just raised it a quarter.
We are a debtor nation, foreclosures and bankruptcies are at record highs and we save practically nothing. Many of us now have to buy even our groceries with plastic and can barely keep up with the interest payments. And still, Americans can’t figure ‘it’ out.
WHY build more refineries if the flow of oil is going to slow down in the coming years? Makes no sense to prepare refineries that will never see full capacity. Wake up, folks.
Twisted Martini @ 18
JayT, Rock Island has been closed for a while. Amoco has a big one up in Whiting (Da Region) and I think that’s where the issue was.
Oops.
Guess that’s why I didn’t hear about any Rock Island fire. (slinks off to corner for self-imposed time-out)
realworld @ 20
Interesting point.
Elizabeth Edwards looking very well.
Iron skunk @ 26
Especially when it means that you’ll also make lots and lots of money.
In the early 1980’s an article in the Wall St Journal indicated the oil companies would be reducing refinery and storage capacity to “Take advantage of short term price fluctuations, and reduce environmental regulations”. Seems like the strategy is paying off.
Iron skunk @ 26
Because without more refineries the refineries we have must operate at full capacity all the time. This causes downtime and disruptions. It is like when the airlines tried to squeeze the last dollar from the transportation system (to give the execs their big bonusses.) Now there are few empty seats, but stuff happens and people are unhappy about delays and lost luggage.
No worries JayT, you can come out of your corner.
I assume we all remember how, when W was running in 2000, how he said he could keep oil prices down by chatting with his buddies the Saudis? Yeah. Right. SUURE….
Sangemon @ 29
Iron Skunk, You almost have it but you miss the real point. See 20.
Ed*ard Teller @ 29
well, we shouldn’t be investing in a NEW refineries, the old ones shoudl do just fine, and IF THEY KEPT OUR OIL IN AMERICA WHERE IT BELONGS there would be far less of an issue
Hillary Clinton/Elizabeth Edwards, anybody?
Just sayin’.
As an eCAHNomist & an environmentalist, I favor high gasoline prices, which dampen demand.
If you’re worried about the regressive nature of high gasoline prices, the appropriate response would be to give low income families an income tax rebate. Now I know that won’t happen, but just thought it was worth knowing what should happen.
What in the world did Americans think they were going to get with eight years of Cheney and Bush? A drop in the price of gasoline. I mean the Bush and Cheney family financial interests were well known before 2000. And the Cheney/Bush derivation of wealth was certainly obvious by 2004.
CHuck @ 31
exactly
this strategy is almost definately in the minutes of cheney’s “let’s steal the national treasure of Americans” meeting he had behind closed doors with these oil
magnatesmaggotsI wish car insurance was added in with the price of a gallon of gas. It sure would be a good way to get rid of uninsured drivers.
eCAHNomics @ 37
Tax rebates for low income folks help but you need to get the revenue for it somewhere. How about windfall taxes?
BigMitch
Can you give me that link again, and I’ll take a look?
We need a Marshall Plan to free ourselves of fossil fuels, and all the national security risks incumbent upon our complete reliance upon fossil fuels.
We would not be at war in Iraq if oil wasn’t in play.
If there were other alternatives for power generation that were sustainable, we wouldn’t be arguing with North Korea and Iran about their need for electricity based on nuclear technology.
We would not be beholden to the Saudis and juggling that relationship against other relationships in the region.
We would not be in another global Cold War for energy, competing this time with Russia and China for the spoils with entire continents at stake.
We might be able to have a real democracy once again, not in thrall to the power of the fossil fuels industry.
And our children and grandchildren might inherit something besides massive debt and a dying planet.
While I am incredibly angry at getting screwed by the oil industry, I am angrier that our elected or appointed officials do not have the spine and moxie to set a Marshall Plan in motion.
And I’m incredibly pissed that the one man who wrote a Marshall Plan back in 1992 as a seated Senator was f*cked out of the opportunity to provide us with a path away from indentured slavery to fossil fuels.
ccmask @ 41
I never heard that idea before, that is EXCELLANT
did you come up with that?
it would also cut down on luxery driving and emisions
I LIKE THAT IDEA ALOT
again, did you come up with that?
eCAHNomics @ 42
Here you go!
Marion in Savannah @ 33
Yeah — chatting and holding hands
The first and most important fact is that there is very little excess refining capacity.
I have a pet theory that may sound odd. It is my contention that gasoline supplies have been higher and prices lower than might be expected for almost the entire length of the Bush occupation. Everyone knows BushCheney are oil guys out to make life good for oil guys. Under those circumstances it was in the political interest of both parties, BushCheney and the oil companies to refrain from taking full advantage of their market power.
The vast majority of the people don’t much care if the constitution is used as toilet paper by powerful white guys but raise gas prices a dime and they get pissed off. In a general way I think the refiners have been keeping the pedal to the floor on gasoline production as a favor to Bush. If Gore had taken the White House I suspect most of the country would have had a California crisis in the period of the first term.
The lack of maintenance is now I think having a cumulative effect. In addition since BushCheney are on the way out the need to give them cover is disappearing.
I can’t prove this at all.
More importantly it is high oil prices which account for most of the high gasoline prices. Prices are high, and they should be. Total world oil production has not exceeded the production of late 2005 . Consumption is up I think 4% since then. One can and should be an agnostic on if we are at peak oil, or a production plateau. The inarguable fact is that the supply demand equation is almost certainly going to be tight for the foreseeable future unless there is a significant global economic contraction.
RonD @ 36
Hillary Clinton/Elizabeth Edwards, anybody?
Just sayin’.
I was just about to mention Eliz Edwards as a possible V.P. candidate.
I find that I’m disliking Hillary less, the more I see of her, but the fact remains that she is a one-woman GOTV campaign for the Repubs.
Higher petroleum prices also make R&D on alternative energies a much more feasible investment.IMO, that is possibly the most important long-term effect of high dino-fuel prices.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 38
LBJ used to say he could never be elected Preznit because people associated Texas with oilmen.
realworld @ 41
Yep. If oil cos. aren’t going to build refineries, i.e., not reinvest their high profits, I have no problem making a social decision to raise their taxes. I am not an expert on oil ind. taxes, but I believe they make out like bandits with things like depletion allowances & other industry specific gimmicks. In general (one of those all-other-things-equal things) it makes most economic sense to tax everything at the same rate, so perhaps we don’t need a windfall tax on oil companies. Maybe we should just tax them like other corporations.
Carter was right, way back in the seventies. If we had followed his directive to develop alternative energy then, we wouldn’t be in this mess today. We would be free from it by this time and no one would be starting wars now to profit off of the last precious drops of the polluting crap that are left.
perris @ 44
/
we would add to that personal insurance if we wanted it…fire theft, and extra liability could be added if the base didn’t cover our assets
this is REALLY a good idea, why hasn’t this been floating around?
Oh, Anderson saying that debates should continue having “people” contribute questions!! I guess he’s bored paralytic with the old format too.
And what Rayne said back around comment 43.
perris @ 44
Yeah, it was my idea. I’ve been talking to all my friends about it for 2 years.
Oh, looky — A commentator (sorry I didn’t catch his name) implying that the American people are smart. How refreshing!
do-si-do @ 4
No problem! I was late anyway.
ccmask @ 56
Single-payer car insurance, brilliant!
I have to tell you, PW, I don’t read these articles the same way.
1. It makes perfect sense for the refiners to push for maximum output during periods when their outupt is priced high. That’s exactly the response you’d want. We’d be upset if, instead of maximizing supplies, they were withholding supplies, to drive the price up even higher. What happened was not a problem.
2. It also makes sense for investors to stop building more refinery capacity if there is a substitute supply that doesn’t use the same refining capacity — i.e., ethanol. No rational investor would put more money into gasoline production if the composite demand for gasoline was likely to be pushed down by substituting ethanol. Again, I don’t see anything nefarious here, as least from this information alone.
3. The California electricity crisis is very different phenonomen, and much misrepresented by some of the worst industry hacks in the business. There was a host of reasons for that mess, only one of which was deliberate withholding (and illegal exercise of market power) but that was likely not the most important reasons for shortages that drove up wholesale spot prices. State regulators greatly exacerbated the situation when they forced the utilities to stop paying independent suppliers who literally could not buy fuel, and so they shut down. The Governor’s office made things worse — and all of this came on top of a severe drought that eliminated much of the hydro power at a time when the substitute — gas-fired generation became very expensive because of high gas prices — etc, etc, etc. Cheney/Task Force had virtually nothing to do with this. It’s a convenient scape goat for one of the most incompetent commissioners of the California Public Utilities Commission.
4. Enron contributed to some overcharging, but their actions were a relatively small part of the problem. Enron owned no power plants in the West, so they had limited ability to manipulate gross prices via withholding; however, they did manipulate congestion payments by submitting false schedules that made it appear transmission lines were overloaded when in fact they weren’t. Enron made tens of millions, but the other factors caused billions in price increases.
this was a stupid attack on Hillary by CNN (re: Congress should not get a raise until minimum wage goes up.)
Marion in Savannah @ 54
AC360 did a great job, I thought. He was polite but firm with “time,” good humored and asked people to answer the question posed. Plus he’s easy on the eyes, which I can’t say for Tweeety.
perris @ 53
Hawai’i State legislature had bandied the idea in several different sessions within the past couple years, yet, Big Oil and the service station owners pushed back hard on the idea!!!
ccmask @ 56
man, if I didn’t know you better I would make believe I made it up myself
(kidding)
this idea is too good…can you think of any negative aspects?
I think even the insurance industry would clime on board since everything else including added liability would be at a premium.
they could even get a cut of the tax if it cut into their democnstratable profit loss
this could be a platform all by itself for a politician
ccmask, your idea at #40 is truly a great idea. I don’t know how it could be structured, but it definitely deserves serious consideration. Does your state have a decent Insurance Commissioner? Do you have a good congresscritter? Please try to take it further — perris is right.
I had never heard anyone talking about it and it seemed so obvious to me. No gas, no insurance.
I thought Congress just recently took a wage increase, allowable only because they did raise the minimum wage? What’s the attack on Hillary about?
Refreshing questions tonite from USAns, also. Certainly some folks won’t be invited for cocktail wienies, but they weren’t expecting them, so: no harm, no foul.
ccmask @ 56
Cool idea! A little back-of-the-envelope calculation says that would roughly double the cost of a gallon of gas. Do you get the same answer?
CTuttle @ 63
well it would definately cut down on use and sales so I can understandn why big oil doesn’t like the idea
still, we are trying to cut down on our “oil addiction’ and that would sure get mroe people using public transportation
Any big losers in tonight’s YouTube debate?
I recommend Dr. Bartlett’s presentation, Arithmetic, Population and Energy.
http://globalpublicmedia.com/lectures/461
Also, this headline, $100 Oil Price May Be Months Away, Say CIBC, Goldman (Update1) caught my attention today.
… Goldman Sachs’s Currie also notes similarities to a year ago, with global inventories at about the same level and U.S. government data showing an increasing bet on higher prices.
“At face value this market is strikingly similar to a year ago,” Currie said. “What is different? Supply is down a million barrels a day, demand is up a million barrels a day. The market is in a deficit.”
See: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..xtV4oWcHk0
BigMitch @ 70
Yeah. Republicans!
wangdangdoodle @ 55
yeah, what wangy said about Rayne @ 43!
srsly, wasn’t it a line from the Matrix
that compared the human species to a virus?
Apparently it is one of our fundamental challenges to prove we’re evolving –
establishing renewable & dynamic homeostasis
instead of consuming/multiplying/obliterating the host.
Similarly, we have to be able to take
things like infrastructure, public education
and public health out of the frame of
“socialism.” More like, self-sustaining!
eCAHNomics @ 51
Sounds good to me!
We wouldn’t even have to raise their taxes — just slash the pork they get would in itself dump a ton of cash into the Federal kitty. But I wouldn’t mind taxing the living crap out of them and putting the proceeds into something like finding uses for sequestered carbon (bike frames, aircraft skins, etc., any place where lightness of weight is desired).
I thought of it when a coworker was upset a couple of years ago because she has a car they rarely use and she has to keep insurance on it. Another coworker got hit by an uninsured driver. So it hit me that if they charged another $1.00 for a gallon of gas, which includes insurance, everyone would be happy. Except the Geico lizard, most likely :))
Want to break the back of the American oil cartel? Ration gasoline. Of course Americans today won’t make that sacrifice today, like we did in WW II.
Marion in Savannah @ 72
actually, if hilary won the debate the republicans will be exhuberant
they think they will smole the elections if hilary is the canditate on the democratic ticket
BigMitch @ 70
I thought Richardson was awkward and ill-spoken. He seemed be very nervous, perhaps recognizing this was an opportunity to break into the top tier. Which he didn’t, in my view.
Hillary was just swell.
I just don’t get the Obama thrill.
Kucinich broke through, I think. I wouldn’t be surprised to see his numbers go up, perhaps at Obama’s expense.
BigMitch @ 70
I love Dennis, but I didn’t think he showed well. The text message thing was pretty lame.
wangdangdoodle @ 52
Few people remember that one of the first things that Ronnie RayGun did when he came to office (after firing all the air traffic controllers) was to cut off all the funding for alternative energy R&D along with stopping all of the programs that were focused on energy conservation. We are in this mess because of him.
From the little I saw, they all did well, but Edwards was exceptionally good.
BigMitch @ 70
The people who think the stodgy old format of questions asked by a “panel of Washington insiders” is the way to go. I hope they all get consigned to a nursing home somewhere, this was much better.
BigMitch @ 45
There’s a name for the fallacy you fell into but I can’t think of the name for it. So regular English, the difference between the U.S. federal government and an individual is that the former has no budget constraint, while individuals do. And it’s even worse than that. The govt analogue to the credit card is both the ability to raise taxes, and the ability to borrow virtually endless gobs. And it gets worse. Large debtors own the bank (in this case, foreign countries like China & India), as it is not in the lenders’ self-interest to damage the borrower.*
So, with all this unlimited ability to spend & spend & spend, what possible pressure could be placed on the feds to spend less. The large deficits early in the Clinton 42 adminsitration, and the ones at the beginning of 44 (Clinton?) serve that functions. And certainly the Clinton surpluses gave carte blanche for W to cut taxes massively & spend like a dry drunk. That’s the thought behind my title. (The report is behind my former employer’s firewall.)
*Which is why Donald Trump was never allowed to go broke.
Oh, Jeez…. Now we’re parsing their wardrobes… and their body language…. Give. Me. A. Break.
ccmask @ 74
It’s a great idea, which I really like. Here’s how the Insurance companies will attack it. They will say we compete by getting the safest drivers, and giving the biggest discounts to drivers like you. Now Big Government wants to take away your right to earn lower rates. Tell them we don’t need Big Government dictating to us what rates we should pay.
Phoenix Woman @ 80
Hear! Hear!!
(can anyone explain what Hillary’s answer was re. 24 years of a Bush/Clinton? people had high marks for her answer but no one gave details…i didn’t have debate on tv. thx)
Marion in Savannah @ 83
What is this crap….”Entertainment Tonight?”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 75
I have a pic of my grandfather who worked for Brewster Jennings right before WW2. He pumped gas for them. In this pic, behind him is a sandwich billboard that declares
“Due to the war effort, this station will close at 5:00 pm.”
He was killed in Italy when the ship sunk. I’ve told this here before. I really need to dig it out and put it up on flickr.
RevDeb @ 78
That’s Saint Ronnie, to you.
I got a mass email from Bonior, Edwards’ manager, earlier today saying he would make news tonite. I missed the first part of the debate. Did John make news? I caught him accusing his opponents of “triangulation” which didn’t sound terribly subtle to me! Nor newsmaking.
RevDeb @ 78
before junior, an easy case could be made for reagan being the worst president ever
now he doesnt’t stand a chance
rosalind @ 86
She said she thought it was a mistake that Bush was “elected” in 2000!
rosalind @ 86
The uestion allowed her to say, “Well, I had a problem with President being elected in 2000, too. And I am not sure he was elected.” or words to that effect.
I asked Lahoma what she thought about the ‘debate’ tonight. She said, “hmmmm”. OMG. This could be portentous. Lahoma doesn’t talk a whole lot. But when she does, I listen.
BigMitch @ 84
the argument will fail since it will be the most basic insurance allowable
we can also allow for redress on tax returns
there would be a formula regarding tickets and accidents and the return would be automatic
simple stuff here
RevDeb @ 80
Yeppers.
perris @ 92
Carter in the sweater. We have come a long way baby in the wrong direction
OT, but somehow germane-
Dwight D. Eisenhower:
“…Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are…a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.”
Thought you might like to hear what a patriotic, rational Republican sounded like.
DrenchedOtter @ 81
Yes, CNN was freed to choose/ask questions they never would have asked on their own. This is a format we should insist on for the rest of the campaign. I can’t wait for the GOP version!!
“Double Gitmo? Why not quadruple Gitmo?”
And the great question from DB above as well.
rosalind @ 86
She said she agreed that W should not have been elected in 2000, and that in fact she wasn’t sure that he was elected in 2000 (paraphrase).
Marion in Savannah @ 92
I seem to recall the ‘Brooks Bros.’ Riot!!! ;-)
rosalind @ 86 RE: HRC response
1) HRC: I do have a problem with Bush being ‘elected’ in 2000.
Paraphrase: Someone else should have been/was elected
2) Proud of her husband, Bill Clinton’s record.
3) Stands there on her own merits.
BigMitch @ 70
repugs
TeddySanFran @ 90
probably the “Hair” YouTube by far the best of the bunch.
WRT the gas rationing in the early 70’s…
It was an even license plate day (your plate had to have an even number to get gas that day) and I was about 40 cars back waiting to get gas. I noticed a guy from the gas station was walking down the line telling everyone there was a %5.00 limit due to the shortage. He had on one of them coin belts and a white shirt pants. In order to make the line move quicker, you had to prepay. By the time I got up to get me gas, I was told that the guy who collected the money didn’t work there. He had robbed all of us.
CTuttle @ 101
If you don’t remember what the Brooks Bros. Riot was, or if you wonder where the “rioters” are today, check this out.
Re: Paying for car insurance at the gas pump. Regressive I would guess, as gasoline consumption is less than inversely proportional to price of auto. And then there are those pesky facts about drivers’ records. Any idea how big a problem ($$ magnitude) the uninsured-accident problem is to warrant such a radical solution?
RonD @ 99
Ike didn’t count on them getting ahold of the media. The media have convinced the working class that “when they get rich” they don’t want to give up their money for taxes.
He did try to warn us, though.
RonD @ 98
Thanks, Ron!
Yeah, they were all purged from the party in the wake of Watergate. The hardcores were so pissed at the moderates for backing Nixon’s looming impeachment, conviction and removal that they worked to have them all toppled one by one; Lowell Weicker was the last to go in 1988 (he had a final hurrah as Governor but it wasn’t the same).
ccmask @ 105
That happened in NoVa as well; police patrolled the lines after it happened.
(thank you, all!)
OT: Per Olbermann, 55% of Republican voters think that Bush is being too intransigent regarding the Iraq war.
That means that the average Republican congressman and
several Democrats (including Joe Lieberman) are well to the right of the average Republican voter.
BigMitch @ 14
Hmmm. I liked them all. How refreshing not to hear a bunch of warmongering “Dicks”. To me, Biden has the right combination of things to be effective internationally.
ccmask @ 88
My father was in the infantry in Normandy. And my uncles were in the Navy in WW II. They all made it back. My great-grandfather was killed with mustard gas in WWI. Your Grandfather was in the Navy?
Phoenix Woman @ 109
Yeah, and Weicker went down becuz folks like Bill buckley through their money and resources behind the Dem CT AG – Some fellow by the name of LIEberman
eCAHNomics @ 51
Actually, the oil companies shouldn’t be the ones building the refineries. A big part of this problem is that the oil companies were allowed to take ownership of independent refineries. For the most part, they shut them down to reduce refining capacity, so they could operate with refining just at the necessary capacity and profit from shortages when demand went up. Independent refiners made money by refining, oil company-owned refineries make more money by not refining.
Forcing the oil companies to divest from the refinery business would do us a lot more good than a strategic petroleum reserve. Yes, we don’t want to be steadily increasing refining when we should be moving away from oil, but since capacity has actually declined in recent years, I’m not talking about a steady increase. And painful random price spikes is not the way to move away from oil without excessive hardship to working people.
RevDeb @ 105
I missed it. Anyone got a link? I’ll go look on Edwards’ site.
eCAHNomics @ 108
I like the idea for the simple fact that it takes industry out of a commons
commons are services that are neccessary to proceed in a society
water, roads, school, parks, these are commons
when a service is needed private industry is very ineficient
they only become competitive when a service isn’t needed by society…then they have to price right
when the service is needed they don’t have to price right they price as high as possible
since insurance is mandatory, and it should be, it becomes a commons
commons need to be run by the government
Sangemon @ 59
We have that where I live, though not added to the cost of gas. Works fine. Rates are kept down by capping what can be payed out in a lawsuit.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 115
He was a merchant marine. USS Rowan.
eCAHNomics @ 118
It’s at the top of the previous post.
eCAHNomics @ 118
I think if you go downstairs to the previous thread that’s it…
eCAHNomics @ 118
on Kos Here.
LS @ 116
Biden is seeking to be the candidate of the Scoop Jackson Democrats, which explains his standing in the polls.
perris @ 119
Just not his government. Er, administration, that is.
Teddy, you asked this last night:
TeddySanFran says:
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:27 pm
eCAHNomics @ 136
eCAHNomics @ 120
So here are my Qs on recess appointments. How far down the line requires senate confirmation? How many are there altogether? Then, how do we know W hasn’t been merrily filling them without bothering with confirmation, but not telling anyone? How could we find out? And how many, like Edelman, who were recess appointments have overstayed their term? I suspect many maggots under the rock I just turned over.
If I say it one more time, and a little bit louder, surely someone will reply.
W has seemed particularly proud of his recess appointments, so I think he’s trumpeted most of them. Whether they’ve overstayed their appointment sounds like a Governmental Affairs kind of question; unfortunately, RGJoe chairs that Committee. I wonder, though, what kind of hold he has on his SubCommittees, such as Government Management, the Federal Workforce and DeeCee, chaired by Senator Akaka?
Perhaps a Hawaii constituent could inquire whether Senator Akaka is intrigued by these overstaying recess appointments?
I promised you I would and I did! Akaka’s office was most interested in the Vacancies Act violations of Steven Bradbury and Tim Griffin, they promised they would look into it and get back with me tomorrow! The staffer took notes and asked me to repeat key points, he seemed mighty interested in what I had to say!!! 8-)
bllrrrbbbb! his = this
Since people are telling stories, my late husband, a German Jew who left with his family after Krystallnacht, enlisted in the U.S. army 6 months early (as a result of which he had 2 birthdays-the govt one making him 6 months older) to go back & fight “those Nazi sons-of-bitches.” Being bilingual in German, he was in POW interrogation, “using all the known methods.” I think what they do today was not known back then. He was long gone before the Iraq torture stories came out and I never asked any details when he was talking about it.
The other interesting thing about him is that his demographics are nearly identical to Kissinger’s-left in same year at same age. Yet Herb spoke completely unaccented English.
think progress has the lead, this is great stuff here;
go glen
How can you expect these poor oil conglomerates to invest in their infrastructure? They are so strapped for cash.
-GSD
wangdangdoodle @ 128
8-P!!!
Ctuttle @ 127
Great work. Thank you.
ccmask @ 121
They were a tough bunch. A very dangerous job. Ever see the old Bogart movie “Action in the North Atlantic”? ;0)
This lack-of-capacity excuse annoys me. Remember that the same supposed lack-of-capacity was used by the crooks at Enron to “explain” the sudden rise of gas prices in California at the beginning of this Bush criminal regime. And remember how much fun the Enron folk had chortling with each other by email and on the phone discussing how they were doing it. To me, there was nothing new in itheir method; it just seemed like a variation on kiting checks.
So why should things be different now?
TeddySanFran @ 100
I hope someone comes up with a good one about dogs and gitmo and torture and ability to read signs and the like for Mitt. Girly man.
“Hair” prominently displayed on Edwards’ site. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
CTuttle @ 132
Oh hell, what a 8-P? :)
Is it just my new computer (fricken’ Vista) or is it anyone else? And the new keyboard doesn’t want to obey my fingers!
Here’s mine for the Rethugs.
If offered, would you embrace Ann Coulters support for your campaign?
hehe
eCAHNomics @ 137
Missed parts of the debate so I had not seen this. It is brilliant … just the type of “comeback” this issue has needed. Of course it and its message will probably be ignored by the MSM.
eCAHNomics @ 133
I was bemused they weren’t pursuing that angle, it was interesting listening to the staffer’s mind virtually engaging his gears, grinding at times, but he kept asking critical questions of times and dates, and very intent on what I was relaying and requesting from Sen. Akaka! Basically, I requested a constituent service as to a hearing on those violations!!! 8-)
questions for the GOP:
Define “checks and balances”.
Define “public’s right to know”.
How do you propose to restore the Constitution?
Do you believe in “extra-legal powers”?
Do you believe God talks to you?
If yes, do you believe you should spread your form of worship through the military or by example of love thy neighbor?
Will you make Cheney’s diary/logs public?
In what order do you plan to pardon all GOP members of the Bush administration?
How do you plan to interview future members of your cabinet?
Spin the bottle or pin the tail on the donkey?
Just fer starters…
Does anyone really think that the Repugs would have the cojones to actually take real questions from real people??? {snort}
Cozumel @ 140
I think the rethugs should get the exact same questions that the dems got. Then we could splice head to head answers and have one hell of a mix tape.
Cozumel @ 140
here’s mine;
“do you think the president knows what he’s doing in Iraq ?”
hehe
they will be forced to say he knows what he’s doing and they will look as moronic as the president once they say he knows what he’s doing
that’s a great question right there
RevDeb @ 79
And even with Reagan undermining most of Carter’s conservation and efficiency initiatives, it was still (IIRC) 1992 before US energy consumption exceeded 1979 levels.
Cozumel @ 140
If DKos commenters represent dems then Ann The C Word represents them.
wangdangdoodle @ 139
I have problems with my wireless keyboard…..really weirdand annoying.
wangdangdoodle @ 139
Do not get me started on Windows bloody Vista.
do-si-do @ 143
Do you really want to see their heads implode? Oh wait, never mind!!! ;-)
Marion in Savannah @ 144
As filtered via MSM
Marion in Savannah @ 144
Just another contrast to show the difference between the two parties. Will show that just like the Chimpenfuhrer and his bubble that doesn’t allow dissent or anyone not pre-approved into his gatherings, it extends to the rest of his party as being too cowardly to deal with real ‘Murikans.
perris @ 147
IF VP cheney is correct in saying one dead terrorist is replaced by four new ones, why are we busy creating more terrorists in Iraq than we are defeating?
Isn’t this a bit like Mickey Mouse’s Sorceror’s Apprentice? Hmmmm?
Fern @ 150
Vista 2007 = Mac OS X circa 2001. Ol’ Bill keeps trying but he just can’t catch up OR get it right.
If there were a world-wide rifinery capacity shortage, there would be a glut in crude oil and prices would plummit.
Crude oil is in the mid $70s, at or near historic highs. If there were no refining capacity, the spot market would collapse as tankers search for a dock to unload and OPEC would be forced to cut back supply as the price crashed.
What IS lacking is heavy oil rifining capacity. Virtually all of the swing capacity in OPEC is in heavy, sour Saudi crude. Without additional capacity there, that crude will have no pricing power in the market. This is why it is the Saudis that whine the most about refining capacity. Chevron, Exxon, et al are not building new refineries because they don’t think there will be the oil to refine.
The only solution is not to use the stuff.
How many Americans changed any of their oil habits after the invasion of Iraq?
do-si-do @ 149
Ah, mine’s wireless too. Maybe I should check the batteries, they’re the ones that came with it so they’re probably old and cheap.
see all later, had a great time but must get some sleep
you know, the only way I get a full night sleep is if I leave my laptop downstairs
if it’s in my room I have to crank it up a few times during the nite and then I get carried away
anyway, g’night all
Fern @ 150
I resemble that remark! :)
CTuttle @ 142
Again, many thanks for your time tonight, as KO would say.
GWB as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice…watch that video in your imagination.
Then turn on the news.
Hi dakine01!!!
perris @ 159
you are not alone in that.
I’m going to quit now so I can wind down with the rest of CSI Miami. Great watching the debate with all of you.
dakine01 @ 155
Next one’s going to be a Mac. So there. 15 gigs of operating system and it’s worse than XP.
Kathleen @ 157
Possibly the most damning detail of the whole tragic episode.
wangdangdoodle @ 163
Hey!
RonD @ 162
brilliant. I can see Chimpy’s face in this. But who plays the Sourcerer? Daddy Bush?
eCAHNomics @ 165
Yes thanks to all
‘Nite, eCAHN!
Here’s another gooper question:
Now that Bush has thoroughly abused our military’s trust, what will you do to rebuild any trust? How will we meet the challenge of any new threat if we are not able to rally the country around the shredded credibility of a GOP white house?
is that too harsh? needs work.
So. If YouTube is going to do the same for a republican debate, I have suggestions for your video.
First, wear a suit and a red tie.
Second, hide or cut your hair.
Third, brandish an assault rifle.
Fourth, ???
eCAHNomics @ 165
Nite, Ma’am! And Perris Too!!!
RonD @ 167
But the Boy King wanted you to go shopping. Nothing to see here – move right along.
eCAHNomics @ 165
g’nite eCAHN….
Oklahoma kiddo @ 134
No, but I’ll add it to my netflix. Thanks.
wangdangdoodle @ 173
fourth: talk really loud, like a pundit.
If you are in the NY metro area, you should tune your television to NY1 now – Judy Miller’s going to be on in a few minutes.
RonD @ 167
Actually, I don’t find 3/gal gas to be all that high – we’ve been paying well over a dollar a liter for a long time – 1.15 right now – and with the canadian and american dollars approaching parity, that is quite a bit more expensive.
Fern @ 166
Apple’s using the same chips now so you can get a freebie program from Apple that allows you to boot either Mac OS or MS depending. Of course, you have to provide your own MS OS and it still has all the same problems but…
For myself, my private machines have all been Macs for over a dozen years.
RevDeb @ 169
Rove or Cheney, hmm, I pick Rove…
ccmask @ 24
I luv those service stations that advertize ‘Free Air’.
wangdangdoodle @ 173
Photoshop an Ann Coulter cut-out sitting next to you. Yeah, I want these f*ckers on record where they stand with her
do-si-do @ 178
How about a red suit to appeal to the red states – and a green tie, of course.
Have you read the David Halberstam article “The History Boys” in August Vanity Fair?
Here’s the editor’s letter, get to know Halberstam.
And then read his genius writing with some delicious snark about the sleazy little one who currently occupies the WH.
A little taste:
ccmask @ 177
Raymond Massey and Alan Hale as well as Bogie. Good flick
My question for the Republican debate. Can you tell us why you found it so critically important to investigate and hold a President accountable for telling lies under oath about a BJ yet did not find it important enough to hold the Bush administration accountble for a WMD INTELLIGENCE SNOWJOB?
Can you explain how lies under oath having to do with a BJ and lies about WMD’s in Iraq effect U.S. National Security?
wangdangdoodle @ 158
I should check, too!
Love your name. is that after a Pointer Sisters song or whoever wrote the original?
Hard to believe that after the gas crisis of the 70’s, this type of nonsense is still spewed. Does anyone really believe that with the billions in profits that have been made over the last thirty years by the refiners as well as all of the think tanks that are out there as well as government agencies that monitor such things as consumption, that none of these great minds ever thought that the American population would ever grow, or that there would be an additional 100 million cars on the road in that time?
We haven’t built a new refinery in over thirty years, so one could understandable reason that you could have all the oil in the world, but what good would it do anyone if you can’t refine it into something useable. Pathetic at best.
Gooper question:
Since it is going to take perhaps more than a year to get the troops out of Iraq, if you ever even plan to deploy, what are you planning to do if we suddenly have a major military emergency…say next month????
Don’t say the draft, because you couldn’t train anyone in time. What would happen?
My question: Do you think Rudy is America’s Mayor?
Cozumel @ 184
I think an inflatable might be easier to come by than PhotoShop abilities, but i’m tech challenged that way ha ha
LS @ 191
Brilliant! a ticking timebomb question!
do-si-do @ 182
Ah, but the Sorcerer was telling the apprentice not to try things or get carried away. If it were Pennochio and Gepetto or Edgar Bergan and Charlie McCarthy I’d give you Rover or Darth.
My question to the Repuds.
If any of the ‘alternative interrogation techniques’ that you tout were used on American troops by another nation, would you consider it torture then?
-GSD
Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi everybody!
Kathleen @ 157
Me. I’ve been finding fresh oil for changes at garage sales. No kidding, the last couple of changes cost $4.00. I also traded two 15mpg vehicles for one 30mpg and bought a nice 4wd civic cheap that gets 40mpg. Also I committed to not driving 2 and mostly 3 days a week. I know I can do better.
RevDeb @ 195
ahh…I bow to the correctness of your analogy. 41 is the sorceror.
CT 129 — great news! Please also ask Senator Akaka’s staff about Eric Edelman, who wrote the snotty letter to Hillary Clinton saying that she was providing enemy propaganda pointers by asking about withdrawing troops from Iraq. He’s overstayed his recess appointment as UnderSecDef as well.
Way to go, man!
McClatchey wrap-up of Iraq violence.
Whatever happened to the ‘violence in only 4 provinces of Iraq’ talking point?
-GSD
Art @ 190
Actually, it looks like the US has about the cheapest gas prices in the world. Granted the data I found is about a year old, but the difference appears to be taxes – base prices are about average, but everyone else slaps a ton of taxes onto the price.
SnarKassandra @ 197
That should about cover the lot of us!
do-si-do @ 189
I should know the answer to that! But I don’t. I like the way Koko Taylor does it.
Oh, and I love the Pointer Sisters!
Fern @ 203
That was the plan!
As I recall, the last new refinery in this country was built in 1976. That’s pretty close to the beginning of the downward side of peak extraction in this country.
Given that U.S. firms created the oil business, I can’t imagine that the failure to build new refineries wasn’t a carefully considered economic decision. The oil companies’ profits go down if they can’t sell gasoline, so, lack of refining capacity is undoubtedly being carefully managed. That there are record profits today is, as well, a reflection of that careful management.
One only needs to look at the so-called “crack differential” to see that keeping refining capacity on the short side is very, very profitable, so one can expect to see more of it in the future.
They aren’t going to build new refineries because oil, compared to demand, is declining. That said, companies like ABB are doing a pretty good business refurbishing older refineries and converting them to use heavier oils. Very likely, we’re not going to see new refineries in this country, but will see older ones, especially those closed for not meeting environmental standards, cleaned up and refurbished–as long as gasoline and fuel oil prices remain relatively high.
There is no question that limiting refinery output is a market manipulation (and this can be easily done simply by not doing regular maintenance). The answer is to limit subsidies to those parts of the industry doing the manipulation and put those savings into renewables research and higher education. The real answer to the problems coming is to maximize human potential, not oil company profits.
Also, if the Iraqi military is using Kurdish peshmerga, what will happen to them if and when Turkey intercedes into Iraq?
Do the Kurdish troops stay in Baghdad or other provinces to work with the US and the Iraqi government or do they drop what they are doing and hightail it back to the motherland?
-GSD
ccmask @ 192
America has no mayor! America needs no mayor!
SnarKassandra @ 197
Well hello there!!!
Hi
GSD @ 207
What – they don’t have a homeland???
cleter @ 208
Oh I’d rather have a mayor than a dictator. Sounds less troublesome.
Fatherland? Der homeland?
-GSD
Question for the Goopers:
Where are all of the 200,000 Turkish troops going to live if they enter Iraq and attack the Kurds???
*ilbo @ 198
Aaaaccckkk!!! Wine. Meet nose. Say hi hi hi hi hi hi to Mr. Monitor.
Why would Rudy make a better Mayor for America than the mayor of Oklahoma City?
LS @ 214
There may be some conveniently located American bases freed up and available by that time.
*ilbo @ 198
The spouse rides his bike into work at least once a week, and I take the bus on those days. We’ll see how long he can keep that up come winter.
montag @ 205
there was a refinery built near Point Conception along the California coast during the late 80’s for the All American pipeline, and has not really run since the mid nineties.
Fern @ 217
!!!!!!!!!
GSD @ 209
Dr Maryam had some answers in Siun’s thread yesterday evening about what will happen to the Kurds.
Thing is, we’re awash in petrocarbons — Venezuela has enough very heavy crude (we’re talking stuff the consistency of peanut butter) to run the world at current usage rates for a century, and with oil prices as high as they are it’s possible to make a decent profit from refining and selling it.
The big question is dealing with the release of carbon into an already-saturated atmosphere and ocean. The first person to figure out how to scrub carbon and reuse it will win the Nobel Prize.
*ilbo @ 198
I work from home but have cut down my gasoline usage to LESS THAN one tank a month. Use only fluorescent lighting that I don’t even turn on till sunset now.
And, bought a mutual fund (prior to Katrina) that I’ve made a killing on. One of seven that I own.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hl?s=PRNEX
Oops! If you can’t beat em… ; )
SnarKassandra @ 197
hey cassie! did you watch the debate? any posts about it on your blog yet?
LS @ 220
Lets see the Turks attack an ethnic group spread across at lest 3 countries, now what could go wrong.
TeddySanFran @ 200
I was going to ask about Edelman, I wasn’t sure if he fell within the Advise and Consent of the Senate, so I refrained from citing his role! However, they assured me they’ll be contacting me in the morrow, I shall raise his role then! If any other names arise in anybody’s mind send me a little synopsis at my email address which is posted on my facebook profile!!!
althespook @ 224
Nope. I was out.
argosfalcon @ 225
Nothing, nothing at all…carry on.
Phoenix Woman @ 218
90 percent reduction in the last 4 years here…)
Phoenix Woman @ 218
Nice, my spouse has been riding to work for 15 years through all kinds of weather and her work pays a small sum for that effort. I look foward to the day when I will no longer be beholding to the auto. I’ve a disabilitiy that will prevent that for a few years.
Hey Cassie!
Gahh, it sounds like the
excuses forreasons Why Gas Costs So Much in CA. They tell us it’s lack of refineries, special requirements for air quality, the phase of the moon (kidding – I think!) … everything but the need to keep profits high. One of the favorites, used other places also, is the distance they have to move the gasoline from the refineries to the stations. It would be funnier if some of the refineries weren’t in urban areas where the prices are high.CNN is fixin’ to rebroadcast it.
TeddySanFran @ 221
The Turks have massed about 150,000 troops on the Kurdish border with Turkey with considerable heavy artillery. The number of tanks and other support vehicles has not been widely discussed.
The US recently started setting up a large base there, ostensibly to protect the oil fields. Many speculate that it will become the permanent home in Iraqi Kurdistan of about 50,000 US troops plus armor and etc.
So the question is, are the Turkish troops there to support the US move, to prevent it, or as a deterrent to attacks against Turkish military infrastructure and personnel in the region?
And I’m worried Dr. Maryam wasn’t entirely forthright with us about her situation. I hope it doesn’t matter, but it might.
They don’t want to invest in increased refinery capacity because they know (but won’t admit) that all the rumors about Peak Oil are true.
None of the refiners want to invest heavily in refining capacity if they won’t see a return on their investment.
SnarKassandra @ 227
they’re going to rebroadcast it and the candidates will have their better answers as clips on their web sites. BTW, new thread.
Come on upstairs.
We have a Strategic Petroleum Reserve in which crude oil is stockpiled in case our nation’s crude oil supply is disrupted.
So, why don’t we have a Strategic Oil Refiney Reserve ready to take up the slack in case our nation’s oil refining is disrupted, whether because of a hurricane like Katrina damaging Gulf Coast oil refineries, or because oil company execs are trying to pull an “Enron” on us.
Crude oil supplies are disrupted and gasoline prices skyrocket.
Crude oil refining is disrupted and gasoline prices skyrocket.
Oil futures speculators play the market and gasoline prices skyrocket.
Time for a change.
And if those in Washington D.C. won’t do something, then maybe a consortium of state governors will join together, buy or seize inactive oil refineries, refurbish them and have them on stand-by, indicating to the oil company execs and oil speculators that oil refining disruptions will no longer be tolerated, whether intentional or unintentional.
Enough is enough.
also useful to remember how far the whole spectrum has shifted to the right – Bill Clinton on a good day would be an Eisenhower Republican, but he had many days that were not good days.
NAFTA, anyone? take that, organized labor, lifetime Democratic stalwarts!
dare I say, a rather more formiddable force than the netroots, even to an excitable kosniks imagination, and look how shafted they got.
not to mention botching health care reform for a generation.
Sierra Club, you like?
David Brower, the founder of the Sierra Club
but then the old man supported Nader, so you (D) party Loyalists can smugly call him a ‘troll.’
My house, oddly enough, is sitting on top of one of the largest natural gas fields in the country. Who knew? I got a packet in the mail over the weekend wanting me to lease my mineral rights to them. It’s big deal around these here parts ; )
http://online.wsj.com/article/…..od=djemTMB
Great post! And connecting the dots to the California “electricity crisis” is exactly right.
What amazed me about this article was that the author apparently has no understanding of how one can short supply in a market and actually increase profits even while decreasing the flow of product. That’s what happens when one approaches singularities in the supply-price realm, and it’s a big part of why unregulated oligopolies (and all monopolies) are NOT free markets, and hence should not be tolerated in a free-market capitalistic society such as the one we’re supposed to be living in.
The few refiners left in the market have created a most advantageous system for themselves, in that they routinely defer maintenance costs (and thus increase their profits by reducing costs) and then when maintenance problems occur, the available supply is constrained, which also increases their profits. So they win no matter what happens, and we lose.
The solution, as always, is to insure the existence of free-market principles in such markets, e.g., regulations against monopolies or oligopolies. If a broad diversity of refiners existed (and there are no natural barriers to a diverse refinery market), then the refiners who fail to maintain their capacity would lose market share instead of gaining profits when their refineries blow up, and the free market would take care of the problem for us.
But most politicians wouldn’t recognize a free market if it bit them, so we end up in a lose-lose situation for consumers, as always.
Kathleen @ 157
Well, I hate to admit that I did not.
But I have a friend with a short, in-town commute who bought a diesel VW Golf and runs it on biodiesel. He did this consciously to keep from sending his hard earned $$ to the oil companies.
Diva
wangdangdoodle @ 173
American Flag Lapel Pin, definitely!
want a good bloggie movie on those liars running the show in DC?
Juan Cole posted a good one!
http://www.juancole.com/2007/0…..rican.html
Redshift @ 117
Once upon a time, the Justice Department had an “anti-trust division.” Now, trusts are consider a good thing because they increase the concentration of wealth.
I’m glad you linked to Jason Leopolds groundbreaking investigative report that was published last week on how Cheney suppressed evidence of manipulation in cqlifornia. I urge everyone to read it. Its very long at 5000 words but it is such a crime that this vice president could do such a thing and come out unscathed. And just in case anyone is souring on the author of said article let me just add that he is the one who broke all of the early stories on manipulation in california. Just read the article before judging
You know as a form of reparation we ought to build the world best refinery and give it to the black citizens of New Orleans. Yep built the biggest bestest Refinery ever built. Enough capacity for the entire country…
remember hearing they tore down over a 100 refineries lately and have’nt built a single one to replace em.
anybody else hear the like?
the refinery lack seems another scam to me.
There’s no reason to build new refineries. Shortages give larger profits than more gasoline does.
The answer, of course, even though it’s “unthinkable” is for the government to just build them itself and to have the army go into the ones currently in existence, make sure they’re properly maintained and run at capacity. Running undercapacity is almost certainly essentially a deliberate decision.
Scarecrow @ 60
I had suspected fuckery then, and LATELY, I’ve been partial to Jason Leopold’s version of who is to blame for the CA Energy Crisis:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071907J.shtml
And that’s why the Energy Task Force Papers Congress asked for, are NOT forthcoming.
They in themselves, would DECIMATE Cheney.
I can appreciate the incompetencies you refer to, but, my money’s on Leopold’s analysis.
Scarecrow
The task force had everything to do with the energy crisis because the people who took part in the meetings were ripping off the state. How else do you explain that reliant energy refunded california $453 million and was criminally indicted for manipulating the marker? Those are facts. The energy companies took advantage of a loophole in the deregulation law and gamed the market. Enrons chief trader in california is in jail for manipulating the market. Sorry, but you’re way out of your league. On this one
while i may be flayed for making this statement, i’m perfectly fine with higher petrol prices – artificial or not. if this is what it takes to wake americans up to our voracious appetite for fossil fuels and heavy reliance on private commuting, then so be it. i’ll be a lot happier when we hit 4 bucks a gallon. and yes, bc of the lack of public transport in my community, i have to drive to work (but i walk, run, bike whenever possible).
#206 and #235 have it right. Peak Oil.
Why build a new multi-billion dollar refinery when oil is likely to get extremely expensive to import, and existing refinery capacity will be more than adequate.
Existing refineries are stressed from lack of maintenance, and yet the word “sulphur” does not appear in any of these comments.
From a poster on LATOC:
Refineries use stainless steel pipes to resist the sulphur. In the old days, when Brent crude was $12/bbl, it was no problem. Now that we’ve only got the expensive high sulfur sour crude to work with, it makes for much more corrosive gases.
Here’s the tricky part. Stainless steel has a specific temp where it chemically changes from the corrosion resistant metal to one which corrodes like regular steel. When you weld it, you get the adjoining metal to that temp and when it cools again its been chemically changed (sensitized to corrosion) so all those welded pipes have to be checked and replaced periodically to keep leaks from happening. Due to the high demand on refineries these repairs aren’t happening so leaks happen, and since its flammable corrosive gases, they catch fire, explode, death and injury left and right. This will continue forever. Refinery welders make really good money welding those pipes with replacement parts for all the corrosion, but they have to work fast and it has to be done again and again. Downtime means money lost for the refinery, which is pulling in $100K/hour in profits. They can afford to pay for the best. However they can’t always afford the downtime.
How convenient of the oil industry! The simple fact is that producing ethanol consumes just about as much oil as the energy you get back from ethanol. Depending on whose numbers you use, ethanol’s energy return on investment (EROI) is about 1.18 (at the best) or even negative (at the worst).
Until tractors run on ehtanol, until pesticides are made from ethanol, until fertilizers are made from ethanol, until the trucks that transport the corn & alcohol run on ethanol, ethanol is nothing more than corporate welfare for ADM. It is pure fabrication to have oil industry spokespersons (and I include the DoE in that group) cite ethanol as a reason for not increasing refining capacity.
Of course, that said, gas is too cheap. We aren’t going to deal with either global warming or peak oil with gas at $3.00/gal. It needs to go significantly higher, maybe $5.00/gal.
Of course, even then we won’t deal with the problems. We are so screwed.
One of the ways the Center for American Progress is trying to raise support for alternative fuels is their new Clean My Ride campaign where they’re lined up a ton of celebrities to star in web videos – and their funny and edgy too, not regular spokesperson stuff. They’re up to their third one now – http://www.cleanmyride.com and its seriously the funniest one yet with Sarah Silverman, Jennifer Garner, and Matt Damon (dressed as a gas pump). They’re up on youtube too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8QaRw4a78Q and they’re all money. Hopefully it will be a good way to raise public awareness.