Apparently Cindy Sheehan and others have been arrested at John Conyers’ office:
Update 1:35: Conyers just arrived!! As he walked down the hall, activists shouted IMPEACH so loud the whole floor echoed. Conyers and his staff took Cindy, Rev., and Ray into a private office without the media. Stay tuned!
Update 2:55: After an 80-minute meeting, Cindy emerged and told the activists that Conyers said “our only recourse is elections,” and the activists groaned. Cindy announced she will run against Pelosi because she and Conyers haven’t “stepped up,” and the activists cheered. Rev. Yearwood is giving a fired-up speech and activists are crowding in to Conyers’ office for the sit-in.
Update 3:43: Capitol Police arrested Cindy Sheehan, Ray McGovern, Rev. Yearwood, David Swanson, and 20 other activists and put them on a police bus. But all is not grim – Cindy is calling it her “campaign bus.”
I won’t pretend to know the wisdom (or lack thereof) of these tactics, but there is some irony to be had in the fact that Cindy Sheehan gets arrested and Harriet Miers remains free.
Related posts:
- Michele Bachmann Leads Health Care Protest on Capitol; Teabaggers Arrested
- Health Care Activists Arrested in Minnesota for Protesting Insurance Industry Abuses
- Five Arrested in Philadelphia Protesting CIGNA Practices – Who’s the Real Criminal?
- McGovern Recovers From #rahmflu, Back to “No” — Sorry, Rahm
- Virginian Arrested for Asking Why Insurance Rates Increased
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EPU’d
JF @ 89
Bravo JF on the EPU — Zed. “Do your job, Mr. Conyers.”
retirin’ in five @ 2
That was impressive.
JF @ 1
Yes. IMPEACH!!! Now.
i’m inspired to see people taking this action. wish i could be there with them.
what a wonderful way to celebrate the 5 year aniversary of the downingstreet memo.
Mr. Conyers — when they forced to you hold a hearing in the basement I sent you money out of support. What happened to that kind of leadership from you and the Dems?
Just got off the phone with Conyers office. They’re being argumentative about Impeachment, saying it’s not his job to get to 218 votes for impeachment.
Unfortunately, my critter is Lamar Smith who is leading the charge of the Rubber Stamp Brigade and totally in the Chimpenfuhrer’s pocket.
Jane, you nailed it yet again:
That’s it: the dilemma and the profound constitutional offense.
Elections. We just had elections…
Impeach those bastards for contempt
God knows I love a good protest.
This is not a good protest.
This is counterproductive.
Behold, ladies and gentlemen: The cause of impeachment set back.
It’s time for the DC Democrats to wake up and smell the brimstone —
The days of Democratic Activists cheering from the peanut gallery for a do-nothing kabuki dance are OVER.
“Conyers said “our only recourse is elections,”
You arrest the pacifist and negotiate with the Contemptress.
Way to go Conyers. Why bother with your oversight? Why bother?
How does one spell the sound of inaction on the part of Congress?
T. Atkinson @ 10
Nah. Does thou protest too much?
Pitchforks… haven’t you witness
the delays to run out the clock…
Now we have a clock
They won’t even move unless they know in advance they have enough votes. Why bother with debate? It is all just an orchestrated show for C-span and to place their statements in the Congressional Record. Since they always obtain “Permission to amend and expand their comments”, there is really no need at all for the floor debate at all.
Maybe they should just abandon all pretense & meet in secret with their big money donors and the corporate lobbyists and run the Country the way they want. The only difference from now is they won’t have to get up in front of the cameras and sound like they give a shit about their constituents.
With apologies to the Out of Iraq Caucus.
T. Atkinson @ 10
would do you think a good protest for today would look like?
selise @ 5
Here here…
Much more delay in honoring their oaths and I am fighting to throw every incumbent out in ‘08.
I had enough years ago..
No recess or no contributions
No impeachment, no excuses, incumbents be gone
Dethrone the two Kings!
Much as I’d like to see Bush & Cheney impeached and removed, we don’t have the votes for it, and the problem there isn’t the likes of Conyers and Pelosi.
Since Conyers was telling us the simple truth–we don’t have the votes now, and therefore our only recourse is the next election–I don’t really see the sense of self-righteously proclaiming, “Do your job, Mr. Conyers.”
Conyers mailbox is full. I really wanted to tell them to arrest Harriet Miers instead of the protesters.
Talked with Pelosi’s staff. The staff person claimed she had no idea that there was a protest. She was also, excuse my French, *really* bitchy.
Tomorrow we hear more bull shit from Gonzo.
After Libby was commutated… the fix is in…
No more fucking talk and delays…
Now is the time
T. Atkinson @ 10
Since when is a protest supposed to be good?
Your name wouldn’t be Shrum would it?
rea @ 17
just having impeachment investigation hearings would be helpful – to get the documentation and testimony that bushco is stonewalling on.
I wonder if the Democrats represent a difference without a distinction vs the Republicans.
They appear to be acting in a manner that will solidify their political power now and in the short term. Isn’t this exactly how the Republicans have been acting?
I just realized how smug the anti-cindy sheehan contingent is at dailykos.
instead of this protest wouldn’t it be a better idea to buy nancy P. a really nice floral patterned sofa?
I won’t pretend to know the wisdom (or lack thereof) of these tactics, but there is some irony to be had in the fact that Cindy Sheehan gets arrested and Harriet Miers remains free.
IMHO, too tragic for irony.
Sure would make me a lot less likely to take any risks for impeachment if these idiots pulled such a stunt in my office.
This is hardly a bad thing. Impeachment is not set back. Conyers only days ago said “give me 3 more” and he’d move to impeach. If his office is saying it is not his job to round up 218 more votes, I’d agree. It isn’t.
Not more than 8 months ago, we were all sitting around saying “where’s the outrage?”. We were all hoping a midterm election would change the shape of the debate. What has happened?
The centrist Dems became “out of touch” just like their Republican brethren and the President and Vice President seized even more power.
Cindy is the outrage. She is at least honest about her outrage. She is far closer to the grumbling angry heart of the rest of the outraged than any sitting Democrat in Congress no matter how fucking smart they are about the 2008 elections.
Conyers is going to be one of those who will find himself without a seat next year.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 24
With matching a matching table cloth for the Impeachment table.
“The people” do not triangulate.
[’k, now I sound like OK kiddo … lol with affection.]
selise @ 21
It’s what Bruce Fein said. More sunshine. And Jeebus isn’t he supposed to be conservative? If he wants hearings, well darnit . . .
Selise:
Would that I were king, a good protest would have half a million people walking through the streets of DC demanding accountability on such outrageous things as, oh, I don’t know, having the President follow the law. It would be targeted at the White House, and it would draw the media’s attention in such a way that it could not be dismissed as Dirty Rotten Hippies. If we can organize a concert in seventy billion cities for Earth Live, you would think someone, somewhere, would be able to organize one to denounce the President. Or at least tell him he needs to be called to task.
It would not be a gathering of a couple hundred people in the office of one guy who is actually trying to put some pressure on the White House in a way that violates a host of time, place and manner restrictions.
But hey. It’s their civil disobedience party. Not sure it’s helping matters, but have at it, I guess.
Selise,
How did you find the staff at Pelosi today. Are they usually this er bi****, I mean cranky.
rea @ 17
Conyer’s job is to uphold the constitution, and at this point this requires him to initiate impeachment proceedings against its defilers. For this only a majority of the house is needed. Powerful evidence will result from the subsequent hearings. Refusing to impeach because two-thirds of the senate is not yet onboard is self-defeating.
T. Atkinson @ 10
Like Jane, I’m ambiguous. I keep thinking about that marketing genius who said there’s no such thing as bad publicity.
to paraphrase the anti-cindy ‘democrats:’
the negroes are sure kicking up a fuss on those buses aren’t they?
wouldn’t it be more productive to do something else?
dakine01 @ 7
Dakine01, come move to O4 or Hays County so Lloyd Doggett, our district 25 rep who is much closer to being one of the ONLY THREE representatives Conyers needs to impeach.
Or write him a letter anyway — why the heck not!
I’d be cranky too if I were Reid and Conyers and Pilosi and I had just performed major kabuki and the unwashed masses were STILL not satisfied. Just sayin.’
wrb @ 26
you know, i’m not so sure. when i called chairman conyer’s office, that’s not the impression i got.
very nice man asked for my name and address, which i gave him with an appology for calling from out-of-state. he said something like: oh no, that’s ok we understand.
i did not feel like my call was unwelcome. and i’ve made plenty of calls that were not welcomed.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 35
I think it’s important to get their backs. They’re not alone. That is the problem. They’re not alone in their thinking.
spurious @ 33
Absolutely right. The oath says defend the Constitution. It does not say “defend it only when you can assure a slam-dunk vote”.
Hey T.A, we had lotsa protests worldwide before Booosh started his War On Iraq. TradMed did not cover them, and there were millions in streets worldwide. They certainly aren’t going to cover a half-million protesters at the White House.
Good for Cindy. May she someday find peace. If it takes a run at Pelosi next year for her to find peace, go for it.
fdl reader @ 37
Cranky? We’re just asking them to do their jobs. Do they think that it’s going to be easy to get rid of the Rs? Did they think they were crowned and now they could take life easy? I’m getting mad now.
Rove, Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice, Libby, Gonzales and the rest will never spend one hour in jail. ‘Justice is blind’. Not anymore.
So I just call my Rep, Ed Markey and the person who took the call said he does not support impeachment. I expressed my distress. We have to keep the pressure on. They are afraid to take this step.
selise @ 38
How did you even get through? I got mailbox is full.
wrb @ 26
Well gee, you apparently have the same opinion of the constituency as most of the Congress. Game the People and say whatever will get you votes and then blow it off once you are safely in office.
mui @ 32
the woman who took my phone call was fine – tried to get me off the line quickly, but not obnoxious.
they may have more than one person answering the phones today. maybe you got the er… cranky one.
Beyond Belief: John Conyers averting his eyes as the government arrests two of his Downing Street Memo basement hearing witnesses: Cindy Sheehan and Ray McGovern. As they tried to get his commitment to a course of action he himself advocated and pretended to support before the last election.
Don’t be afraid of ridicule, America. It’s the Rove Republicans’ favorite weapon, and all they ask is that you tremble at the thought of facing it. It’s okay to tremble, it’s not okay to let that fear stifle your conscience and silence your principled voice demanding to be heard in the halls of your own government.
Remember the Iraqis struggling to survive in 110-degree heat without electricity (or clean water, or a functioning sewer system) for 10 days straight; the sole military power in their country capable of helping them and restoring civil order and safeguarding civilian infrastructure – ours – has failed, after four long years of occupation.
THAT TRAVESTY TRUMPS RIDICULE.
Another travesty is that “image” is allowed (and is actively being allowed by all those afraid of the ridicule of the unprincipled) to trump everything in America anymore – just ask Madison Avenue, and then go tell the Iraqis that we can’t end our occupation of their country because John Wayne wouldn’t have considered it “manly” enough to care about the well-being and survival of people who don’t speak English, and, well, you just can’t face being ridiculed as a “peace-loving” “leftist” by tough Karl Rove and his henchmen on FOX and CNN.
If might makes right, America, why did we take on Nazi Germany again?
I’m not sure of the wisdom of the tactics either, but truth is when I read the story, my reaction was at least Cindy Sheehan is doing something, the people sitting in their fancy Congressional offices sure aren’t.
Bush now knows that he can do anything he damn well pleases. The coup has already occurred.
Nothing will be done. The chimp is now emperor.
If Bush were to cancel elections and continue to rule, who would stop him? Were he to round up Conyers and others and give them a necktie party on the White House lawn, why would anybody bother to notice?
I’m only asking.
Want to talk irony?
AP – Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair opened his mission Monday to help Palestinians build solid foundations for their future state, offering ideas to Israeli leaders designed to stabilize the shaky government of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.
eCAHNomics @ 42
Me too!!!!!
Considering the idea that there’s no bad publicity, there is nothing stopping Conyers from turning this to his advantage: like “look everyone, my OFFICE was occupied ~ we’ve got to do something or people will be in the streets.”
Indeed.
But the “elections are your only recourse” stuff is really cheap and *way* off base. They are feeling the pressure. And we need them to feel that pressure.
This is the kicker for me. Harriet Miers running around in contempt of congress. As Bruce Fein pointed out, her Nixon counterpart John Dean did the right thing and showed up.
Even if the House were to vote for articles of impeachment the thing would die in the Senate-there is not the slightest chance that 67 votes to convict either Bush or Cheney are there—yet.
I think it makes more sense to continue to apply constitutional and legal pressure up to and including the use of inherent contempt. The Dem leadership needs to continue to shine a light on the GOP’s obstruction in the Senate and Bush’s lawlessness.
It should be a no-brainer that this crew be impeached but in our current media and political culture, the outrage isn’t there yet.
At the very least, a censure vote should be taken but the GOP willl filibuster that too and the media will portray it as a democratic “failure”.
The tide is turning but it doesn’t do us any good to overreach. The more outrage we can stimulate among the public, the closer we will come to more definitive action. That, and working the media refs to finally call a fair game for once and do their friggin jobs.
STFU David Gregory.
mui @ 39
amen! that’s why i’d love to head on down and join them.
… maybe in a few weeks…
After watching BushCheneyCo abuses over the last 6 years…and no one seems to notice how out of control they are, I think I know how Cindy feels!
mui @ 45
had to try a few times before i got through.
BushCo orifice Lee Casey made the pronouncement on this morning’s Diane Riehm show that impeachment would be tantamount to a coup. Although they may not have contingency plans for Iraq, my guess is that they do in case the impeachment ball gets rolling.
every mother in america should be saying, ‘jesus christ cindy sheehan is speaking for me.’
pow wow @ 48
Nazi Germany Declared War on the U.S.A. , not the other way around..
Bush is now within two points in approval ratings of where Nixon was after hearings and we all know Bushco is a criminal cabal not just a second rate burglar boss..
No excuses, impeachment hearings now.
Step aside wingnuts..looks like the DLC trolls have arrived.. Sorry DLC it’s time to wrinkle the dry cleaning.
just having impeachment investigation hearings would be helpful – to get the documentation and testimony that bushco is stonewalling on.
I don’t see the advantage of fighting Bush’s bizarre executive privilege claims in the context of an impeachment hearing rather than an ordinary oversight hearing. It simply gives the Bushies more oportunity to spin.
Some of you people seem to be embracing with both arms the Republican talking point about the “do-nothing Congress.”
By the way-I think we need to be spending more time on the phone targeting the GOP obstructionists. What political price (other than certain annhialation in 08)are we making them pay? They are our representatives and Senators too-I think it’s time we gave them some heartburn.
when you think about it, the dems are doing a passive-agressive version of what rove and co have been doing:
a) turning everything into a election issue
b) ignoring their employers.
i am going to readjust my expectations, and i am DEFINITLY going to re-adjust my contributions.
obviosly the entire lot of them need to be thrown the fuck out of office.
If we are going to be realists, we must MUST focus on who promises to bring the monsters to justice AFTER the next election, meaning, i dont really have any confidence in anybody currently elected. but i will NOT NOT NOT vote for anybody who doesnt implicitly state that they will go after the bushies when/if they are elected.
if the only candidate to promise that is nader? i will be voting for nader.
Yeah, fdl reader @ 92
Instead of Conyers’s telanswerers complaining about not having 218 votes, why don’t they tell pro-impeachment callers what they can do to help get 218 votes. Where is the leadership? I would shout, but don’t want to hurt any pups’ ears.
rea @ 17
agree with this. I want to keep the heat up on the dems, keep folks like pelosi and conyers motivated to act. Just concerned that this isn’t productive … I know that makes me ideologically impure. But, I want results!
thank god thank god thank god almighty the powder is still dry.
nonplussed @ 46
No my opinion would be that if I was working hard to take bastards down, as Conyers has been doing step by step, exposing the crimes and building consensus and the shrill idiots attacked me instead of the bastards, I’d
1) be pissed
2) be careful of the risks I take with “friends” like these as my back up.
At least she is doing SOMETHING. At least there is visible, palpable OUTRAGE. I might argue about her tactics and timing and venue; but I’m sitting here in an office in the relative safety of the midwest — so who the fuck am I to tell someone who’s got the balls to stand up and scream ENOUGH, that they aren’t using exactly the right inflection.
Yeah, I’d do it different. But I’m not. Who else among you is? She’s a real activist. You know how I can tell? She’s active.
Impeach them! :-)
well.. now that Gonzo has announced that he plans to stay on at Justice to “fix” the problems he conspired to create in the first place, we can be sure that the Dept of Justice will be there to ensure that those “elections” Rep Conyers talks about are free and fair :P
I may or might not support Ms. Sheehan’s methods. But two things she’s got that I don’t. A dead soldier son indirectly killed by the prez, and a lot of courage.
Buses. Lotsa buses.
People. Lotsa people.
Banners. Lotsa banners.
Is it terribly unethical to advocate what I myself cannot do? Does what I do do any good?
Why aren’t the colleges and universities up in arms about their country?
Music. Lotsa good music, too. What’s our theme song?
I wish Conyers’ attitude was akin to FDR’s when activists would come to him and he’d say “I hear you. Now make me do it.” I don’t think that is what he’s saying, though.
All of you who are saying that we shouldn’t rock the boat by asking, demanding, impeachment, because the votes aren’t there:
Where have you been the last six months? I don’t recognize your screen names, so you ahve to have been either lurking or not here.
If you’ve been lurking, then you should know what’s going on far better than you’re demonstrating.
If you’ve just showed up – read the posts in the archives, before you tell us we shouldn’t be trying to change things, or that we’re not doing enough, or that we’re doing the wrong things.
[Mods - I get tired of being told by strangers that we’re clueless. And I’m changing cell provider so I’ll be able to make calls like this. Expensive activism.]
Oklahoma kiddo @ 71
Amen!
BINGO! We have a Winnah!
Cindy has a wisdom beyond our years. I see the Left buying into the Rightard paint by numbers castigation.
If this phuqn’ movement can’t stand behind one mother grieving her dead son,then we all deserve the best Cheney can throw at this world.
I was at Kos,(blech…) and couldn’t believe the invectives hurled at Cindy from people proclaiming to be God knows what.
It reminds me clearly of what the left did to Howard Dean. Phuqn’ disgusting.
Even if the House drew up the articles, the Senate is too cowardly to act. Here’s what Obama wrote back to me, an Illinois voter.
Obama is a rotten Senator and worse presidential candidate.
I agree with behindthefall.. the only way this changes is if Congress sees a few million protestors converging on Capital Hill. Shrub may not respond to that sort of pressure, but I believe Congress will. Unless we’re prepare to deliver the same magnitude of public outrage the country saw in the Nixon years, we’re not going to see the same outcome.
As Paul Slansky says:
What are these Democrats so afraid of? George W. Bush is increasingly understood to be the worst president ever, if you can call someone who stole two elections “president” — personally, I can’t. He epitomizes so many negative human qualities that a majority of the country now feels his odiousness viscerally, yet no one dares take him on. Does Karl Rove have pictures of each and every one of them in bed with animals or underage children?
To employ a metaphor of the moment, the Democrats are like the Ministry of Magic in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, refusing to acknowledge — let alone trumpet — the reality of how much evil is in the air for fear that, by pointing it out, they will be blamed for it. Hey, Dems, guess what? People already know.
Just got back from the bank where a car had this HUGE sign on the back of the trunk: “Still Registered REPUBLICAN? If so, you share bloody blame for lies•war crimes•corruption•wasted lives $, torture: SHAME!”
I took a pic on my cell phone and sent it to my reps (all Dems)
Looks like we’re hitting the tipping point….
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 23
I LOATHE those people. I LOATHE them.
Jwoods @ 22
Yes, yes,yes–and that is precisely what will give the Republicans hope (like Bill Kristol) but also folks like Nader who can split the vote–and the Greens at all state levels—and on and on. These are Maliki Democrats. We can do it! Fine Leave! We don’t like you anyway! No, stay! We need you to defeat the Republicans a year from now. All we need is more time. Bagdhad Bob Democrats. No, absolutely not. We will fight to the death in the mother of all resistance to Republican domination! We will resist! Is the camera still on? Who is that behind me ripping up the Constitution? He is nothing..he is no one. I assure you not a single transgression against the Constitution will be be inflicted while we are on the job!
The Dems are positioning themselves as nothing more than helpless blowhards. And the irony I see is how all these Democratic candidates are going to knock themselves out to be centrists come time to go to the convention where they will proclaim a need to unify (again) to defeat the Republicans (again). Of course the voters feel “gamed”! How can it be any other way?
Blub @ 77
Thanks. That what it took, wasn’t it? It was a lot more than a Congressional hearing.
The evil, evil party of slavery has jailed her. Dios mio!
Kevster @ 54 – i don’t think congress is doing anything that comes close to risking overreach. and it’s our job to expand the overton window so that when congress acts, the actions will be percieved as moderate.
the immediate purpose of impeachment hearings is to aid the investigations (which are being stonewalled), not to immediately get a majority of senators to vote for impeachment.
what cindy and ray et al. are doing it drawing attention to the outrage… and give it a voice. hurray for them!
that picture of cindy sheehan in the john lennon peace shirt is priceless.
but shouldn’t she be wearing something from the gap? or wallmart?
i’m not sure she looks respectable enough.
Kevster @ 54
But you have to have the trial in the Senate. Air it for people to see. Preempt the soap operas and Oprah. Make your case before the public. Did they have enough votes to convict Nixon when it started? I doubt it. Conyers needs to have some balls.
Kevster @ 54
He really hit all the inside-the-Beltway cliches: strong, serious,…
I think you can still see some pieces of quail sticking between his teeth.
Kevster @ 54
Once again. You don’t start out the votes you need to convict; they are a result of proving the articles of impeachment through hearings that investigate the wrongdoing. But this process needs to begin.
valletta @ 81
Oh I hope so!
valletta @ 79
Things are moving, but we’ve seen so many “tipping points,” I’m beginning to think of them as TP–something you can wipe your behind with.
Howard Dean isn’t speaking at YK.
I think there’s a lesson in that.
For Ghu’s sake people — don’t hassle Conyers, call your Reprsentatives!
He’s doing what he can, so let’s try to get 3 more co-sponsors for HR 333 — impeaching Cheney.
It’s not Conyer’s responsibility to produce that majority vote in the House. It’s ours.
I’ve called my Rep today, and sent her a post card. What have you done today to bring about the impeachment you desire?
valletta @ 81
Hell, yeah!!! We can’t let up. They work for us after all. Keep calling until they start impeachment proceedings. If they get pissy, just tell them, when they start proceedings, we’ll stop calling.
Conyers, if he said this, is dead wrong. We do have other recourse. We can always have a revolution. Thomas Jefferson wrote that it’s not only our right, but our solemn obligation to replace any form of government which has become destructive to our liberty.
I’m not advocating a revolution, I believe in peace. But Conyers is dead wrong.
I think most of our representatives don’t understand our Constitution and the gravity of their oaths to uphold it. Most also don’t understand the dynamics of our Revolution, nor do they respect that we can do this again and again until we get it right. Their jobs are simple and secure in their understanding, but this is delusion on their part.
All of the power rests ultimately with the people, and we can choose to use it any time. I hope someone in Washington understands that.
irate @ 76
Thanks for posting that letter. Half a page and not one single thing that the Democrats propose to do with the mandate we gave them, just empty phrases. To me, that’s the problem with the Democratic Party in a nutshell.
At least Cindy is not afraid using her oversight powers.
There are two blog entries on the Edwards site on impeachment that need votes in order to be posted. If you have an account there, go vote in favor of these blogs. One’s from me (aka SamsDad and ones from RevBeth (Any relation to RevDeb?))
brendancalling @ 80
I don’t spend much time at kos anymore. There’s only so much internet reading time in the day and they just don’t have enough homos over there for me!
Another day without impeachment, is a day enabling this Administration to further strip the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and show contempt of Congress and the citizens they represent.
Another day without impeachment, is a day America formally morphs into “The Homeland”.
Another day without impeachment, is another day in which to obstruct justice by commuting or pardoning criminals who are obstructing justice.
Another day without impeachment, is one step closer to an attack on the rest of the evil axis, the continuation of the occupation of Iraq, and perpetual war.
valletta @ 81
Wow! Nice work.
rea @ 62
it’s not republican talking points. here’s glenn greenwald responding to a questions in his comments on friday:
Millineryman @ 98
My respect for Cindy grows and grows.
Believe me, like those pushing for it on this forum, I agree that Bush, and Cheney deserve to be impeached, perhaps more than any administration that I have seen in my “Sixty Something” years.
With all due respect to those pushing for impeachment, this ain’t the right way to do it.
We need to keep the end goal in mind. Getting a Democrat in the oval office. Impeachment without removing them from office is futile and possibly even destructive to that end goal.
We don’t have the votes! We won’t have the votes! Personally, I have always believed that Bush/Cheney would have to invade Iran, or be caught stark naked with a boy in their bed for it to get to that point. In other words, both Dems and Repubs would have no choice.
Conyers is right. Elections is the only answer.
IMHO, Cindy Sheehan lost me a long time ago. She would have served her purpose well had she carried on with the vigil in Crawford, TX. She didn’t. Sorry, but becoming a paid professional protester just doesn’t cut it with me.
Instead, you better believe that this will be played to the hilt, by MSM, and Republicans as yet another example of that crazy radical left and those uncivil bloggers.
IMHO, this is one of the worse things that could happen to our chances for 08. The sooner we distance ourselves from it, the better.
When Conyers says elections are the only recourse, he fails to add that by not impeaching, congress cements a bunch of dangerous precedents. Do we trust the next president, even if a democrat, to give back ALL the dangerous powers Bush has seized? Impeachment proceedings, even if they fall short, are the only way at this point for congress to avoid cementing these frightening precedents.
sherifffruitfly @ 83
Harriet?? Sorry.
P J Evans:
I know what’s going on. I have a keen intellect. I read seventeen newspapers a day and excrete entire essays that could be printed in Foreign Affairs.
I routinely exercise by lifting copies of the United States Code over my head, particularly Title 18, and bench press all the provisions that apply to the rat bastards in the White House. I now have muscles that Austrian Governors would envy.
There is a turnip truck that drove by me yesterday, and I didn’t recognize it because I didn’t fall off it.
The fact that I do not post here regularly does not mean that I am an idiot. Nor am I trying to tell you what’s what. I am expressing the opinion that I think the protest is counter-productive. Disagree, agree, buy and sell at the marketplace of ideas.
But don’t make the mistake of thinking that only “regulars” have the corner on right-thinking.
I think Cindy Sheehan’s primary concern at this point is Cindy Sheehan. While I applaud what she has done to bring attention to the war, I now believe her goal–maybe not her sole goal, but a goal nevertheless–is to bring attention to herself.
One man’s opinion.
I am thinking about protesting at Conyer’s home office tomorrow. Is there anyone that can join me?
Troll alert.
They *never* got the votes the impeach Clinton and they did it ANYWAY.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 80
My view on this question may not be a popular one here, but I still believe that we get the Congress we deserve. We complain Congress won’t do anything to solve our problems and confront the thugs in the Exec Branch while we sit passively at home shooting the odd email off to our politicos and posting on our blogs.. I’m sorry (and this will probably get me thrown off the internet) but this is simply NOT the type of constant, vocal and visible pressure that brings down governments. Until our college campuses explode, unions are calling general strikes and the media is saturated with images of outraged Americans taking to the streets, Congress shouldn’t bother to take the strong measures we want. To impeach, they need to see that type of pressure and outrage… which this country had during Nixon’s adminstration. But we’re not ready to get mad yet.. I can’t even get a dozen people to turn out for protests, and my students might as well be hood ornaments.
We see that sort of scale of action on immigration (the Mayday 2006 protests, for example), but nowhere else, and not generally directed toward the leadership. We also saw that magnitude of militancy on the part of the far right during the Clinton impeachment… but we don’t yet have it against the shrubocracy.
I’m sorry, but frankly, I don’t see much to complain about in Congress. Sorry to sound so cynical, but this is what I believe and how I feel.
“Why aren’t the colleges and universities up in arms about their country?”
No draft so they don’t care. My Niece, a Junior at Scripps (Claremont), sits at home enjoying her Summer and probably doesn’t even know or care whet the “Surge” is. She told me she is a “Kid” & didn’t have a response when I told her people younger than her were fighting and dying everyday in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Her Mother forbids me to talk politics in their home. Of course her Mother is a hard core Republican, well to do, real estate development attorney. Has checked her conscience in somewhere along the line, when we were young she had one.
Bring back a draft and see how quickly the streets fill with angry young people!
spurious @ 108
Lookin that way
Jonathan @ 104
Not impeaching sez they got away with it. Terrible, terrible moral hazard. EVERY future prez would behave even worse, knowing there’s no punishment in store. The consequences of not impeaching are dire and very long reaching.
I don’t comment that often here, but lately my comments always go to “moderation.”
I don’t spam.
I don’t troll.
I don’t blogwhore.
I don’t feel my comments have been immoderate.
I do bear the mark of Cain on my forehead,
but how the hell did you know?
spurious @ 108
Maybe the Wizard of Oz sent out some of those “flying” things.
TexB @ 102
amen!
They have posted pictures at the DCP of the action there.
http://www.democracycellprojec…..g_t_4.html
It would take me forever to put them in photobucket, so I hope you will forgive me for this “blog whore”.
Michael Moore – Impeachment and war crimes for the bosses.
What they risk by not pursuing impeachment, besides the constitution, is a third party on the left.
realworld @ 120
From your mouth to America’s ears!
rea @ 17
You are conflating 3 differnt events: 1) the Impeachment Inquiry (the investigation, like a GJ investigation), 2) Voting Aricles of Impeachment (Like a GJ voting an Indictment), 3) trial to verdict in the Senate.
Each step has it’s own value. Each step, and the revelations and debate that goes with tehm has the potential to radically shift both public opinion nad votes in the Senate.
Silence is Complicity @ 107
bless you!
Interesting,
It may just be my computer, but I just voted 5 stars for the Cindy Sheehan artical at Yahoo, which was posted at 1:43pm ET.
At the bottom it says there were 16 votes for the story.
IF Cindy is a viable candidate is not the point….BUT…maybe she will get Pelosi OFF HER ARZE and do something about what the PEOPLE want!
Wow. You really have to respect how powerful Cindy is that she attracts so much anger.
looseheadprop @ 120
Xactly! And even if each step is met with failure; even if no more opinion is swayed or apathy swept away, at the very least there is a public record of a body of Americans that stood against the assault on the Constitution that this administration represents.
Getting that down in the annals of history is very important, regardless of the outcome.
realworld @ 118
yes. 2008 could be a landslide for the dems. or it could be a disaster.
if dem leaders in congress do not act to constrain bushco – then they will be asking for a third party challenge… one that can do real damage.
if dem leaders in congress act to represent their constituents – then they have nothing to fear from a third party challenge.
We cannot get the entire Democratic party (much less 1/3 of the GOP) to go along with pulling the plug on Bush’s war…his legacy. There is no WAY that impeachment is going to happen (esp. with Lieberman stalling everything through his Committee. Look at everything that Waxman is getting out in the open. We need to replace Vitter with a Dem, remove Lieberman from Committee and get hardcore evidence to support impeachment proceedings if need be.)
Protest Dems attack the media. Forget the GOP, they are lost.
ACT UP NOW
looseheadprop @ 122
Thank you, LHP!!!
If an overnight session couldn’t even get a YES-NO vote on a withdrawal timetable, how can we get the senate to pass a 2/3s in favor of impeachment?
A threat of losing office didn’t phase republicans from voting ‘NO’ for withdrawal. It’s got to take a lot of public activity. More-so than what Cindy has generated so far, but so far, Cindy has been the greatest at bringing talks of troop withdrawl and impeachment to the spotlight.
Subway Serenade @ 124
I was #18.
realworld @ 120
this for real would be a good thing …
The impression here is that Rove’s nasty little hands are behind the Sheehan hate. This is just the kind of enterprise Karl excells at. He and his mentor, the late Lee Atwater. A couple of vile peddlers of poison and hatred.
Atwater’s aggressive tactics were evident in 1980, when he was a consultant for Republican candidate Floyd Spence in his campaign for Congress against Democratic nominee Tom Turnipseed.
“Lee seemed to delight in making fun of a suicidal 16-year-old who was treated for depression with electroshock treatments,” Turnipseed recalled.
Remind anyone of the prez’s comments on Carla Faye Tucker before her execution? This little Bush coterie is beyond the pale.
rea @ 62
Not for nuthin’ but there is case law out ther that says that Executive Privledge all but evaporates during an Impeachment Inquiry into wrongdoing by the executive caliming the privedge.
That’s why!
selise @ 124
I’m afraid to get arrested. I feel strongly that we need civil disobedience and we need to be in the streets.
I will feel like I’m not doing right by our country to not get arrested there tomorrow.
cancer_cures @ 131
Forget about the senate. We need the investigations in the house. Start there.
dakine01 @ 7
We’re not asking him to impeach. We’re asking him to open an “impeachment inquiry.” After which, he and his committee must draw up articles of impeachment and submit them to the House. That’s where 218 votes are needed. And, if the impeachment inquiry goes as expected, there will be more than 218.
fdl reader @ 127
I think that the amount of press attention (good and bad) Cindy gets is a good testament to how effective her style of protest is.. and why we need a lot more of it. She looks “extreme” and, a bit odd, because she’s practically alone in her visible, traditional protest activism. She wouldn’t look that way if we were all out there with her..
Traditionally, students and labor have taken the lead in traditional protest, of the type we saw in the ’60s, but the former are now chained in debt and the latter ave already been broken as a political movement…
I’d be interested in knowing what we could use to get people back into the streets, like they were in the ’60s, or like some groups, like immigration groups, are still able to do, today.
Thank you again, LHP, for your informed perspective.
So, Feingold was on CNN saying that censure is the best way to send a message to the future that what this president has done is so very very wrong. Otherwise there’s nothing on the record, says Russ.
Sorry, that’s more kabuki, Russ. You are better than that.
nonplussed @ 113
I don’t think that’s the whole story. We sure didn’t expect to be drafted, at least before the lottery started. Deferments for being in advanced studies and all. But I think that there was such momentum from the civil rights movement that protests, sit-ins, and marches were nearly automatic reactions to perceived injustices.
The ‘me’ decade of the 70s hadn’t started, either, and for all the poor opinions around about protesters, oddly enough those people weren’t spoiled by feeling entitled to a living and caring little about others.
Blogwhoring by proxy.
My 15 yr old niece has been collecting impeachment websites and information and posting them here.
Oh for the love of pie.
I register my opinion that I think the protest is counterproductive because it’s at the office of one of the few guys actually trying to do something about the White House and I’m labeled a troll?
For that?
Yikes.
Okay, well, let me try it in a more positive light. I think protests are good things. It’s one of the things we fought to have, the right to petition the government for redress of our grievances.
I am all for protests as a means of social change. From India to Selma, they have been effective as a clarion to government action and restitution. They serve as important touchstones for unvoiced rage and dissent.
And to be effective, they must weild power and influence, if not by force of ideas, then by sheer numbers. They must draw attention. And they must draw attention to the cause for which they stand.
I am not sure that protesting a Democratic leader’s offices–particularly one of the few leaders willing to take some kind of stand–really meets the goals of protest.
You want to help organize a massive protest on the streets of DC to focus the impotent and lap-fed media’s attention, then go. For. It.
Maybe this is the way to get the kickstart going (without a draft–without real sacrifice–the engine of protest is harder to rev).
But this ain’t 1969. Protests are viewed differently now. They must be better planned, better organized, and they need to target the soft economic points where action may be forced. Those who sat at Woolworth’s counters and in the fronts of busses and who boycotted businesses realized this. The taking to the streets action came later, as a show of force, and size, and scope.
I applaud Cindy’s follower’s goals of ending the war. But I am soured on her.
If that makes me a troll, then point me to a bridge and I’ll be on my merry way.
“Business before pleasure. Impeach Cheney first!”
ROFLMFAO!
pjevans at 75 says-”
All of you who are saying that we shouldn’t rock the boat by asking, demanding, impeachment, because the votes aren’t there:
Where have you been the last six months? I don’t recognize your screen names, so you ahve to have been either lurking or not here.
If you’ve been lurking, then you should know what’s going on far better than you’re demonstrating.
If you’ve just showed up – read the posts in the archives, before you tell us we shouldn’t be trying to change things, or that we’re not doing enough, or that we’re doing the wrong things”
=========
i hesitated jumping into this thread, due to the feeding frenzy, but i decided to go ahead and dive head first…
just cuz people don’t agree with you, doesn’t mean they’re a troll, and just because you don’t recognise their names as ‘one of the club’ doesn’t mean they don’t have a right to swim in this lake..the day we all have to agree is the day i won’t be back…this thread i found disgusting, where’s the dialogue??? we all have to agree now????
to everyone else who supports this sit-in—explain to me what good it did!!! she had conyers’ ear for 80 minutes!!!!! man, what i would do with that time!!! and didn’t like his answer, honest answer, so turned it on him???
i think what she did today was a four-year old’s actions-old enough to articulate what they need, but throw a temper tantrum when they don’t get what they want…..she could have done a lot of good today in meeting with conyers, and BLEW it with a temper tantrum……
at risk of being slammed, i am reposting something i posted a few days ago, when someone announced the march—–and i really have tried to get on the cindy bus, but i don’t get it, really i don’t….she could be using her influence and isn’t in my book….i legitimately want to understand what everyone thinks she is doing.
dmac says:
July 22nd, 2007 at 6:06 pm
“On the 5th Anniversary of the Downing Street Meeting and the same day as a Dem Prez candidates debate in the evening on CNN, Youtube, and Google, July 23, 2007, Cindy Sheehan plans to lead a delegation to Congressman John Conyers’ office in DC to demand impeachment. Ray McGovern will be among those marching to Conyers’ office from Arlington National Cemetery (meeting there just outside the Metro stop at 10 a.m.).”
======================
i know there are a lot of cindy sheehan fans here, so, please explain to me what good she is doing……….i don’t see it, i see it the same as those code pink people sitting in full view in congressional hearings……..
meant to provoke with no solution in the making………..
please explain any other intent in her actions………that’s all i’m seein’ and i don’t think it helps……..seriously, i’m not meaning to demean anyone, just am taking this opportunity to have someone explain it to me………and don’t give me the ’she lost her son’ shit, i lost my brother to the army…….. my mother never got an explanation, and never got over it……….
what is she doing and how is it a good thing?
and by the way, my mom likes her…….i just wanna know what she thinks she is offering to the conversation, i don’t see it as a legitimate dialogue…….histrionics, but no dialogue….sorry, but the message is missing me……..no snark intended, i really want to know what everyone is seeing in joining her cause………i don’t get it…….seems to me she is taking away from the dialogue, same as those fools on camera from code pink………histrionics, where’s the dialogue? she could have a meeting with any senator or rep that she wants just by asking, yet she devotes her time to theater……..what for? i don’t get it, seems to me she is doing it on purpose, when she could be meeting with them in real time, and doing something about it instead of staging theatrics…….don’t get it…….and don’t hate me for my thoughts, just thinking what i would do, i would take advantage of the private meetings, to hell with the staging of bullshit.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 134
And I believe that Mary Matalin is Lee Atwater’s ex.
looseheadprop @ 122
Each step has it’s own value. Each step, and the revelations and debate that goes with tehm has the potential to radically shift both public opinion nad votes in the Senate.
BINGO! Imagine how much we’d know by now if the process started last Jan/Feb.
I recently heard Mike Gravel interviewed by Randi Rhodes, where they talked about his 5 month filibuster to help bring troops home from Vietnam. They were making the obvious point that you’ll never get the votes if you don’t do anything to get them. Guaranteed.
These are drastic times, and they call for drastic measures. Wow. Cindy Sheehan…what a hero!
If we could only get Maryam, from Siun’s post the other night, to have a chat with our Reps and Senators. Jeezus, these people are so out of touch with reality!!
Wonder to what they (dems in Congress) attribute their recent tanking poll numbers. They always tell me I don’t understand the ways of Washington, but since Dems have been in a freefall my entire adult life and these same names have been there the whole time, who is the one not understanding?
Tithonia @ 138
Yup! FDL is where you go to get the arrows for your quiver! LHP, CHS and a host of other legal eagles are master fletchers!
Let me put it this way. I have been voting the straight Democratic ticket for 39 years. And I have never really been disappointed in my party. But…I’m disapponted now.
looseheadprop @ 136
DING! DING! DING!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 150
I am disappointed in many, but not all.
Looks like an army of anti-impeachment trolls has been deployed. Do not feed?
spurious @ 110
Sorry Spurious, but if you were referring to my comment or that of T. Atkinson’s, then I am totally oblivious to what a troll is.
I thought that Jane, and Christy, and the other frontpagers at this forum welcomed differing opinions, and I still do.
Brisingamen @ 94
Wrote Big Hank and asked him to sign on with HR3333. (I get form e-mails bck, so I don’t know how my letters are going over.)
Wrote Conyers, politely, and asked him to start impeachment inquiries, because it isn’t his juob to get the 218 votes; those will come with the hearings, as people see what’s been going on. And to start with Gonzales; we may not be able to impeach Shrub, but we should be able to get Gonzo.
—
T Atkinson:
If the shoe fits, wear it.
I wasn’t singling you out personally; I was pointing at the whole crowd of you who have shown up in the last week or so, weeping and wringing your hands and nay-saying loudly and frequently.
wigwam @ 136
they would first be voted on by his committee before the full house (Judiciary). The Nixon committee had 21D-17R and the first two articles were voted 27-11 with 6 Rs joining all Ds. The third articles was 23-15 with Ds still unanimous.
Conyers seems to me to be afraid to even open the inquiry as he probably believes (with good reason) that the current batch of Rs are so in the tank that there is virtually no way that they would vote in favor of any articles, no matter how much the public may support it and no matter how many crimes can be proven.
The Nixon votes were taken prior to the release of the “smoking gun” tapes at which point most all support for Nixon collapsed, which is when Goldwater and Hugh Scott went and told him he would be convicted by the Senate and lose everything.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 132
Bingo. Why would someone not support the anti-war sentiments and actions of a woman whose son was sent into harms way, by our government, based on lies?
Bush’s and Rove’s shitheel lapdogs like Bloody Bill Kristol are pushing people to the edge….
The number of military people speaking up against the Bush war and against the flaccid, greasy apologists like Kristol are growing by the day.
The backlash has not come, but if they keep pushing perhaps this nation will break from it’s drug and entertainment induced torpor and start taking it to the streets.
Let’s hope the tattered shell of our democracy can hold out till then.
-GSD
irate @ 78
hear hear! nice to see how many others are seeing beyond the audacity of the hype.
Loyal team (D) pragmatic cheerleaders alert… if your party nominates a neo-conservative fellow traveler like Obama or Clinton your party could still legitimately lose!
looseheadprop @ 136
LHP-IANAL, but my straightforward thinking has been exactly in line with your description of the law. Glad to hear it’s on our side. W may try to stonewall inquiry, but I think riots would break out at that point.
OT–did anyone else in the bay area get an invitation today from democrats.com to a topless protest?!
spurious @ 90
Exactly! During the Impeachment Inquiry Bush can’t stonewall and refuse to produce documents and witnesses since HE is being investigated! This is the only way that the evidence is going to be forced out of this administration. As the proceedings are broadcast people will be so outraged that they will DEMAND the votes in the House and Senate. An Impeachment Inquiry is necessary, now.
T. Atkinson @ 142
I’ve got the deed to one in Brooklyn I could sell you.
So, the idea, near as I can figure, at FDL is to read the opinions of intelligent front page posters and then vent appropriately in the comments with people of generally like mind. There is not a drive for consensus, in fact, individuality and freedom of opinion seems to be encouraged. If you remain interested, keep at it and you’ll do fine. Oh, and they also seem to have this nagging sense of duty to the truth, weird as that seems.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 35
How dare she get all uppity [snark/]
Great minds and all that Mabel …
Why y’all being so uppity by goin’ to Congress an’ sittin’ in? [snark/]
Oh, p’shaw! Why doesn’t she and the others just wait for the “leadership” to end this? Just leave it up to them and wait [snark/]
I could quote from this extensively but I won’t.
Yea, let’s just wait for pResident Bush to come to his senses and stop the occupation; and stop spying on Americans; and stop defying Congress; and stop his signing statements; and stop his recess appointments; and stop his politicizing everything in the government; and stop his economic policies which punish the average American … etc
Let’s just wait because he and the bootlicking Republicans are sooooo brilliant[snark/]
TexB @ 144
{{Kassie}}
Sixty Something @ 154
Actually I wasn’t referring to either of you. But there are a lot of new people today who seem to be trying to squelch the idea of impeachment.
sporkovat @ 160
Gore/Dean 08
Anything less is an object lesson in mediocrity.
Silence is Complicity @ 134
if you’re not ready to get arrested tomorrow, may i make a suggestion? (please forgive me it it’s not helpful or sought)
call a reputable organization like the afsc and ask about getting nonviolence training for the action you are considering. i can’t tell you how much that has helped me. it can even help you find an affinity group to train with and act with.
blessings!
P J Evans:
Well, I appreciate your apology, but I read this blog two or three times a day, every day (except weekends when I am a little more hit and miss). The fact that I don’t speak up all that often does not mean that my opinion isn’t as worthy of review as are yours.
It’s a sad, day, however, when someone who calls it like he sees it is accused of “weeping and wringing your hands and nay-saying loudly and frequently.”
That’s nonsense.
selise @ 15
How about a half million people on the Mall, chanting “stop the war now?”
Shorter Feingold on Bush:
Bailiff, whack his pee-pee.
-GSD
For the anti-impeachment-minded:
You are right that we don’t have the votes. Perhaps you are even right in that it would be unsuccessful. And you may be right in that it is not a short-term solution.
But I believe that we must attempt it nonetheless, for the long-term health of our Constitution. Otherwise, you might as well strike out the possibility of impeachment at all, for any reason. Just save some ink and take it out of the Constitution.
What could be more of an impeachable offense than lying our country into war? If that is not an impeachable offense, then what is?
If the President (and if Bush) gets away with this without a mark, a precedent is set that may never be undone. Precedent is an onerous burden to overcome, even if accidental. Especially if accidental.
We seem to be approaching this as if we should only take action if we are assured of a successful outcome.
I believe we should take action regardless of whether we are guaranteed success, simply because it’s right.
Our Founding Fathers risked everything – their fortunes, their families, their lives – to create a nation of laws, rather than men. We rightfully deride the chicken-hawks who cheerlead for the ‘war’ but would never dream of fighting it themselves. Yet we are unwilling as a party to risk what we have – our slender majority, our ‘power’ or influence; money, comfort, our perceived ‘approval’ – to do the right thing and check these megalomaniacs before they destroy our democracy.
We have been told by this administration in so many words that what we do or say will have no influence on the decisions made by the Decider. Why don’t we believe him? He’s telling us, “Scream all you want to – I’m still doing it my way.”
We should take him at his word. In this, for once, he’s telling the truth. And we should respond appropriately, and take the steps that the Constitution demands that we take in this situation. Otherwise we are giving our tacit approval and support to what these criminals are doing to us and the rest of the world. We would be establishing a precedent that may be impossible to overcome.
Impeachment is all that’s left. The Founding Fathers did not say, “We’ll break away from King George, if he’ll let us, and not get too mad at us, and agrees with us that independence would be best for everyone.”
We shouldn’t say that either.
If she had come out and instead declared that he was submitting HR-334 to accompany HR-333, wouldn’t Conyers have had to make a formal statement denying that it was his intent to IMPEACH. Thus invigorating the populous further to shut down the NATION via GENERAL STRIKE?
burnspbesq @ 171
No way! 4 syllables is a horrible chant.
Then to whom ARE you referring Spurious? I’m here pretty much daily and pretty much at constant (albeit) lowish posting volume. So are just about every other name I see up there, when you first sent around your troll whine. And I’m pro-impeachment, I just think we (as opposed to Congress) need to be doing a lot more about it.
spurious…
“And I believe that Mary Matalin is Lee Atwater’s ex.”
I don’t know about the ex part, perhaps she was. I do think she was a major aid to Atwater. ;0)
new thread
OKK @ 135
Rove behind Sheehan hate campaign makes perfect sense. I do not know why I didn’t think of it sooner.
FYI, new thread
johnSwifty @ 127
There is one other reason, because it is the
right thing to do.
TexB @ 91
I live in a fancy smansy gated community off of 1604 near 151 in San Antonio (for reasons too weird and complicated to describe here). My neighbors really do think Bush can do no wrong and Cheney is the last true patriot. So imagine my surprise when my next acre neighbor’s Mercedes SUV suddenly is sporting a neatly printed white letters on black background rear window sticker “9/11 was an inside job. Don’t let it happen again”. I politely asked him the next time i saw what that was all about and his reply was “The bastard bush lied to us and set us all up.” That’s all he would say.
I love the smell of truth in the mornings…
burnspbesq @ 171
i’m happy to do that again (i’ve done it many times, including helping organize buses to bring people from my home town)… but i think that while that is necessary and helpful – it is not sufficient.
Anyone see Katrina VandenHeuvel on Tucker this afternoon? Boy, she really ripped him a new one!!! And that was after I watched Michael Moore on Tweety. Nice to hear some serious pushback!
althespook @ 182
Yeah, I don’t notice near as many “W” stickers still showing as there were last summer.
My post objecting to this protest was not because I object to impeachment but because I favor iy. This is the sort of protest you inflict on enenies. I doesn’t pursuade, angers and embarrasses. It is a good way to turn friends into enemies.
Some suggested that this would affect wavering Democrats. How? By pointing out that a price of favoring impeachment is screaming protesters in your office and attacking you on TV?
Alicia @ 173
Thank you for putting that all down, I so agree with you.
althespook
If the Mercedes-driving Texans are bailing – it’s impeachment time! (I spent four years in west Texas, north of Lubbock, Laney’s district: they’ll back it, because they don’t like going around the laws … at least not publicly.)
cancer_cures @ 175
oh, I dunno
“Hell no, we won’t go” works, that’s 5.
I hope everyone here is noticing that thanks to The Blog, momentum for Impeachment is growing in fractal proportions. Folks in Congress are way behind the curve.
We just all have to understand that when Bush dared Congress to arrest Harriet, it was a signal that their plan is set. Cite Harriet for inherent contempt and it will be the same as the mouse taking the cheese.
spurious @ 167
Has it occurred to you that there are those of us who honestly do believe that impeachment, under the present circumstances (can’t win), is not in the best interest of our country or the Democrats?
Though you were not referring to the “two of us”, you seem to want to lump us in with the rest of those who want to “squelch the idea of impeachment” under any circumstances. That does not automatically label any of us trolls.
As I said, I believe that the timing isn’t right and may never be right. Sheehan can do us progressives untold damage when it come to accomplishing the end goal. She is not the right vehicle.
You better believe Karl Rove is laughing his fool head off right now.
cancer_cures @ 131
One measly overnight? Awww, did you think it would be that easy?
Good Government is hard fucking work!
Lots of it, by all of us.
Stop expecting quick fixes and instant gratification. We build justice one fact at a time, one witness at a time, one case at a time.
And we don’t give up.
All that being said, I gotta go with Jane on not being too sure of the wisdom of holding the sit in in CONYERS office.
After all he did meet with them. He is doing some stuff (though I agree he should be doing much more).
I think I would have preferred a press conference expressing dismay atConyers asnwer and calling on Dems to flood the Dem caucus with phone calls and letters
Followed by a sit in at John McCain’s office!!!!
Elliott @ 189
How about just “Just Quit!” that’s two.
For all your Pennsylvanians out there, I think Arlen is the one who needs to hear from some protestors. If you want to occupy an office, I’d think his would be pretty high on the list.
I think that if Conyers had given a positive answer to Sheehan that would have been spun as Sheehan bravely forcing him into impeachment hearings, which would have been disasterous.
Sixty Something @ 191
yes, please see my comment in the previous thread.
can you please see that there are those of us who honestly do believe that what cindy and ray are doing is wonderful and inspiring and good for the country?
I just do not understand the argument Conyers makes for
not beginning the process of Impeachment. Is there
some kind of implicit collusion going on in the
Democratic Congress ? Are they willing to accept the
the abuses Bush is doing so a Democrat President can do
the same thing and not be impeached. If this is the case
then throw all out of office come election time? I’
congratulate Cindy Sheehan for her protest and challenge
to Nancy Pelosi! Bush is out of control. There are a lot
of people in this nation without the courage to walk
their talk. Too much fear going on. Too many executive
orders in place to establish THE RULE OF DICTATORSHIP!
Every Democratic Congressperson must be lobbied at all
times everywhere they go to stand up and Impeach,.
I don’t have the time I used to, to spend reading comments, because of work. But I have spent a lot of time reading FDL comments since 2004, and think this thread is not what I would expect. Since when do you have to have your screen name recognized to be welcome? We used to have T-Rex threads just for lurkers. And what’s with attacking people for disagreement? I haven’t seen any trolls on this thread, but maybe I’m naive. Disagreeing with someone doesn’t make them a troll.
Blub @ 193
we could go the Ted Stevens route with just
“NO!”
johnSwifty @ 164
Although I agree that there seem to be quite a few concern trolls out and about today, I atke T. Akinson at his word.
While I applaud CindySHeehanfor her courage, I think the strategy could use a little work. But since I do not have the courage to put my arrest record where my mouth is, I should not criticize.
BTW, Huge Ray McGovern fan here.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 177
I’m pretty sure they were an item, though I couldn’t find it in Wiki just now. Laundered?
Instead of working for the TWENTY REPUBLICAN SENATOR VOTES WE NEED FOR CONVICTION, activists are berating and attacking one of the biggest heroes democracy has in the Congress.
Way to go.
Idiots blame the problems of democracy during a COUP on the LOYAL.
Idiots express their disaffiliation by attacking the very people who are restoring democracy day-by-day, after two absurd Congresses.
Why isn’t Gold Star Mother Sheehan protesting the other side? No, she’s busy cannibalizing the Representatives who will meet with her, so that they will be sure not to meet with her again.
Chairman Conyers is a loyal American, and a 35 year public servant who has put it on the line many times. He should be treated with respect, but that’s just too big a concept for leftists.
They just want someone to blame who will listen to them.
Sam @ 197
NOT ENOUGH VOTES FOR CONVICTION.
Five words that fly right over the heads of the confused.
selise @ 196
Yes, I can see that and I have the utmost respect for your opinion, but then I didn’t label you and all those who disagree with you a troll did I?
Just want the same respect in return.
Sorry to say, but in the eyes of this government any protester is a terrist and will be accomadated as such.
So we stand together for our beliefs, or die trying!
Bush order allows anti-war advocates’ assets to be seized
This is posted right now as the lead story at HinesSight.com
See the full story from Global Research by the Author of America’s “War on Terrorism”, Univ of Ottowa Prof Chossudovsky.
He warns:
Paul in LA @ 203
But how can you predict the votes when the evidence hasn’t been presented? People might/can/will change their minds as they open their eyes.
I say bring it on.
Lets state it clearly again. The Process of Impeachment
is to draft specific Articles of unlawful actions this
President has committed. Each Article is an injury to the
soul of this Nation. The nation rises up and declares
action to remove the President with the House of the People Impeaching. It is the only recourse given to the people (outside of elections) for a peaceful
revolution and RESTORATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL
LAW AND ORDER.
So, do we just take impeachment out of the Constitution, then?
If not for this Administration, then for what?
Ever?
MS @ 206
Fearmongering is better than realism, eh?
• That Bushco order is intended to help sever any help given BY AMERICAN IRAQIS OR MUSLIMS to Iraq. Is it legal? Probably not.
Antiwar protesters, of which I am an example, have very little to fear from such a threat. The DoJ is not going to be eliminating our assets — the bark is NOT a bite.
Hysteria is not the solution.
Alicia @ 209
wow. You know, I think that is the best damn argument for impeachment I have seen anywhere.
Elliott @ 207
HOW CAN YOU NOT?
You apparently don’t realize that this is a COUP. The Republican party in the Senate is COMPLICIT.
MAYBE there are 20 R Senators who would change their allegiances, if the political costs go up. But only 1/3 of the Senate stands for election in 2008 — so it is very hard to raise the stakes.
We also have Dem Senators who won’t vote for conviction — REGARDLESS OF FACTS — but maybe some of them could be pressured.
• Would it be a good idea to focus on the 2008 incumbents in the Senate? YES IT WOULD.
But since you’re busy throwing rotten eggs at the wrong people, you just don’t have time.
TexB @ 122
If Gore were to start up a third party and run as its candidate, people would leave the Democratic Party in droves. I’m just saying …
Paul in LA @ 203
Paul in LA @ 202
Paul take a deep breath please … feel better?
Now, read this, then this, then this
Congrats to Cindy Sheehan and colleagues on their great work today.
Civil disobedience, Congressional efforts, court/judicial efforts (where not blocked by DOJ/Federalist treason) and mass protest were required for civil rights and environmental defense.
Those who are adamantly opposed to one avenue may as well pick another and get to work on it.
If you think other CD or mass protest activists will stop what they are doing because of your opinion(s), your data base needs a refill.
Those who are adamantly opposed to one (or more avenues) and choose to put their energy into griping about someone else’s efforts – please tell us what you have done – today – to work on this issue.
Or explain why – if you can’t be bothered to act – anyone actually working on the issues should give a flying jump about your opinion of their efforts.
Please don’t think the CD and mass protest communities will change a damn thing they are doing for those who can’t troubled to do a damn thing… or even for those who are acting in other avenues.
You have your ecological niche in social change – others have their niches.
While you talk about their strategies, others will act to defend the Constitution – and they require neither your permission nor your approval.
Nor do I – though I respect the FDL commenters (and authors) who may have different opinions on theses tactics.
Those interested in helping with mass protest planning may wish to call UFPJ (united for peace and justice) in DC/NY. According to other organizers, some organizing efforts for mass protest have started at UFPJ. As of this writing, that’s the best entry I know.
Those with a hankering for CD may contact their local Code Pink chapter.
Have fun.
selise @ 55
I’m going to have to mull this one over. I wonder if tactical backup might include more phone calls, faxes etc.
DrenchedOtter @ 213
VP Gore is a LIFELONG DEMOCRAT. He has ZERO intention of forming a third party.
And your claim about people leaving the party in droves is what is technically called BULLSHIT.
• We do understand this is a CAUCUS GOVERNMENT, even if disaffiliated leftists don’t get that (obvious) fact.
Paul in LA @ 212
oh for heaven’s sake, I’m not throwing rotten eggs at you or anybody, besides I prefer throwing rotten tomatoes.
And yes it would be a good idea to focus on 2008 incumbents. But we can walk and chew gum at the same time.
john in sacramento @ 214
Sixty Something @ 204
i didn’t call you (or anyone else a troll)… i thought the troll comments were for a comment(s) that was deleted? that happens sometimes – the mods are quick, but sometimes one slips through for a short bit before it is deleted (leaving only the responses behind).
Paul in LA @ 217
I have to disagree with you there, buddy. Everyone who starts a third party has been a member of another party before, by definition. I think it’s pretty clear that Gore would carry a lot of people with him if he decided to set up his own shop, or don’t you agree? Besides, what has the Democratic Party done for him, except strong-arm him into not running to make room for Hillary?
kirk murphy @ 215
I used to support CodePink — I have protested next to them many times, know several of the members.
This latest set of stunts is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
GSM Sheehan has now successfully alienated Speaker Pelosi and (it seems) Chairman Conyers.
If you consider that an accomplishment, I think it is YOUR commitment to change that is in question.
mui @ 216
absolutely. and jail support and communications support…. something for everyone to do.
DrenchedOtter, are you a serious commenter?
Gore is a DEMOCRAT. It’s not something he will change — it’s not something ANY of us will change.
And Gore has NOT to anyone’s knowledge been ‘pressured’ not to run. You’re just LYING.
• I support Gore, or Kerry, before anyone else, because we have a duty to democracy to make sure that elections count.
But I know that Gore won’t run if Bushco is still in place. Unless they are seriously weakened and under indictment, I think we can count Gore out of the race, at least this time around.
Third party dreams are NOT the solution. Name your candidates that YOU will elect — don’t fantasize that Gore is going to lead your Bull Moose Party into oblivion for you.
Paul in LA @ 219
Paul, looseheadprop is a very respected attorney in NYC who has worked on very important and complex issues and with some other very highly respected people and I highly value her words. When she says something it carries great weight. She also has been working very closely with the Democratic Party – that’s the National Democratic Party – on issues which concern all of us, so you’ll have to forgive me if I put her word far above yours
Paul in LA @ 222
On Friday Conyers’s position was “Three more votes and I’ll swing into action.” When Cindy left his office, it was “Elections are the only recourse.” That sounds like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Paul @ 224
I guess I touched a nerve, huh? I don’t believe that you or anyone else knows what Gore will or won’t do. I also don’t believe that third parties are necessarily a bad thing. Get a strong third party candidate like Gore, and IMHO the Democrats will finish third. The only question will be whether or not they can beat the Republicans. But that’s just my opinion.
BTW, NEW Thread
Which is where I’m going ;-)
Elliott @ 218
I was speaking generally, not of you specifically.
kirk murphy @ 215
I’m with that. I think they deserve our support.
I’m very frustrated that a Cindy Sheehan can be arrested for what she feels is her duty as a citizen (and is basically riding a crest of citizens who are feeling the same) while Ms. Miers is running around free in contempt of Congress all because of BS executive privilege that is King Georgie’s way of proclaiming he is emperor.
Those who say we shouldn’t try to impeach because we can’t win are saying, in effect, the stream is polluted. We must accept this and drink from the stream, because to try to clean it up will not work because of powerful opposition. Next year, we’ll get someone to clean up the stream.
Paul in LA @ 222
Please do pass this on to EarthFirst!, Greenpeace, and the Ruckus Society.
You see, over the past decade, these groups keep inviting me to help them.
They seem to have missed your discernment about my lack of committment.
Sometime in their off season – if that ever comes – perhaps they’ll have time to review your opinion.
In the mean time, your concern is duly noted.
Goodness gracious – I may be displeasing you.
Yawn.
If we run out of things to talk about at the next mass action training camp, perhaps someone will remember and bring it up.
We’ll take a good laugh any way we can get one.
Thanks for today’s, Paul.
And thanks for the opportunity to provide the object lesson in your total impotence to change the actions of the mass protest and CD communities.
Your capacity for changing opinions is also looking pretty flaccid.
Was it good for you, too?
john in sacramento @ 225
It doesn’t take a respected attorney to know which way the wind blows.
We don’t have the votes. That singular fact makes the rest MOOT.
wigwam @ 226
I’ve said this before. But Conyers really, really needs a shot of adrenaline. ChimpCO is running circles around him.
Go Cindy you truth teller you!
selise @ 169
Thank you for reaponding to me. I will take your advice. Also, I’m sorry for the delay but I couldn’t easily find responsed directly to me.
I have been doing this though:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..3157/01077
wigwam @ 226
Exactly.
If I were Conyers and had planned to announce impeachment hearings tomorrow I’d put them on ice until additional evedence came forth, and the decision would appear the result of sober deliberation, not from caving to protesters.
The latter appearance would give too much ammo to the other side.
Paul in LA @ 233
And during the Nixon administration? Impeachment inquiry can dredge up a lot of dirt in the meantime.
mui @ 234
Personally, I think Cindy is doing what Conyers wants! He wants ACTION. Because action will force OTHERS to heed. CONYERS s the one who wants all of us in the streets and making calls. CONYERS is the one calling for Civil Disobedience.
mui @ 238
Yes, during the Nixon hearings, which Conyers attended as a member of the HJC.
Nixon’s circumstance came complete with a FUNCTIONAL PRESS.
No such luck today.
silence is complicity @ 239
I’m curious to know why you think that. I’m not disputing, but I’d like to know if you’ve seen or heard something.
I called Conyers office at around 1pm today. I spoke with a very nice man who said they were getting around 4 calls per minute mostly as a result of the “3 more Congressmen” story that was posted on the web.
silence is complicity @ 239
You are making all that up. Chairman Conyers has not called for any such thing.
• Protest, DON’T get arrested.
Getting arrested accomplishes next to nothing. The cops who haul you away will not care about your cause unless they do already. The whole process of booking and jailing is dehumanizing, and I have seen several protesters turn into non-protesters as a result of bashing themselves in that manner.
Sixty Something @ 191
I don’t believe that, and I don’t think an intelligent progressive would, giving a little consideration to the circumstances. Karl Rove’s president is at a 25% approval rating. Cindy Sheehan, a highly charged and emotive public figure chooses a stance course and venue that not many progressive thinkers would have chosen; but she garners attention and brings the focus of public opinion to her cause. And this time, more people agree with her emotion, if not her motives. And this time, fewer people are labeling her a nut and dismissing her out of hand.
I don’t think Karl Rove is laughing at all. I suspect he’s quite worried and planning furiously in some vain attempt to regain his marginalized power base.
silence is complicity @ 236
first time i ever thought to participate in a protest was in (april, i think) 2002 (at the age of 42) i stood (no sign) at a local silent peace vigil. the police came and photographed each one of us (head shots for identification purposes) and the chief of police later said it was important to know who we were because we were a potential threat. and this was in a “blue” state.
that experience affected me deeply. since then i’ve done a bunch of nonviolent actions some involving pepper spray, tear gas, rubber bullets, and even the firing of automatic weapons with live ammo (that last bit was not in the usa). and i’m still a newbie to nonviolence… but, one critical thing i’ve learned in the value of the trainings. besides afsc (american friends service committee), i’d also consider the wrl (war resistor’s league) and for (fellowship of reconciliation). i’m sure there’s lots more (kirk murphy can probably advise), but those are the ones i know of.
thank you so much for what you are doing.
Paul in LA @ 243
have you studied the movements that gandhi and mkl were part of? how do you square your assertions with what they accomplished?
i find the lessons of their history more compelling than your assertions? do you have an argument or evidence to back up your assertions?
selise @ 245
What state was that?
If you didn’t complain, en masse, to the city council or mayor or whatever, you MISSED your protest.
I’ve been filmed many times, without doubt. But I would NEVER allow uniformed cops to come up to me and photograph my face, because that is an insult, and local politics can usually block such future behaviors.
• Who is your police chief, and what are you doing to have him/her removed from office?
selise @ 246
Gandhi’s methods worked in a specific setting. And then they failed horribly, when the civil war and partition destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives.
• I have seen too many protesters give up the fight after getting arrested.
Protesters are priceless. I do know many trained protesters who do nonviolent actions intending to get arrested. Of three I have in mind, two no longer protest.
I consider that attrition to be too much of a sacrifice for too little result.
• I will protest for at least three hours this week. My presence on the street (along with many others, or just myself) has been effective in the purposes of street protest (expression of outrage, water the grassroots). I have protested more than 500 hours since this latest bs began, and will continue.
The reason I can continue is that I avoid damaging my ability to continue. Those who do get arrested have a fairly high attrition rate, and they trade YEARS of regular protesting for a few voluntary-arrest actions. Not a good trade, and I say that as a protester and lifelong activist.
Paul in LA @ 247
it was in MA. and the statement of the chief of police was made at a city council meeting (do not for a minute think that was the end of it – the local aclu and many, many others did not let that policy continue without action… but it took months from the first offense to even get the issue brought up in the city council).
and the choice was to either be photographed or leave the vigil. those were the options. i did not leave.
and the police have (at least on occasion) continued to photograph protesters and others.
looseheadprop @ 136
I’ve looked for this case law you mention. There’s not a lot of case law dealing with executive privilege, but I haven’t found anything suggesting that executive privilege doesn’t apply to investigations for potential impeachment. Questions relating to impeachment are ordinarily nonjusticiable, so the lack of any case law addressing the question wouldn’t be surprising . . .
Look at the legal avenues that are shutting down and the likely result of continued futile investigations.
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorials/149
selise @ 249
Good for you! And I didn’t mean to suggest you were at fault for their actions, in case it came off like that.
Over the last seven years I’ve been maced, handcuffed, video’d (at a distance), photo’d (ditto), spat on, punched, and threatened with knives.
And they didn’t budge me one bit.
Sharing your GRIT, and still standing.
We shall overcome.
dude @ 251
NONE of these investigations is ‘futile.’
The 2008 elections, brought to you by Diebold and their programmers who will insure the Dems don’t site in the White House. Or how about this one; the 2008 elections brought to you by, wait they were cancelled due to martial law.
I’m tired of writing letters and calling my Representative. Though I am lucky in that I have a Rep who is has a little bit more on the ball than most (Sarbanes or at least I think he does). I’ll be in Washington on 9/15, I hope about another half million of you are with me! It might not accomplish a damn thing but it’s better than sitting in front of a damn computer.
Paul in LA @ 203
Pursang @ 254
NEITHER OF THE ABOVE.
• We have new, loyal SecStates in CA, OH, and FL. The electronic vote-fraud machines are outed, and the Holt Bill which would have further entrenched them has gone back for a rewrite (after massive activism). CA is important, btw, because ES&S has been caught up in programming lies, as has Diebold, and their machines will probably be banned some time THIS year. When that happens, many of the other states will follow suit.
• Bushco DOES NOT have enough manpower for martial law. It would take 100,000 troops to hold down Los Angeles alone, and the cities and states are NOT going to simply go along. And, in another famous rumor, the Mexican Army is NOT available for manpower.
Fearmongering is not activism. It is hysteria.
sunny @ 255
You, and many others, apparently don’t understand the concept of COMPLICITY. Most of the R Senators will NOT vote the evidence — they are already ‘voted’ into the conspiracy.
• Are there 20 R Senators who will jump ship?
We will not know until they do. Starting a year-long impeachment in order to see if they do is like throwing flour and water into the air, and hoping for pizza dough.
It doesn’t work that way. You have to knead the flour into the water FIRST. And without that evidence, Speaker Pelosi will not allow the process to go forward.
No one here has mentioned that Pelosi has greenlighted contempt proceedings in Conyer’s committee on Wednesday.
Too busy throwing tantrums in their offices, apparently.
Drenchedotter @ 227
they deserve to finish 3rd, after all the selling out and betraying they’ve done and still do.
Maybe Bloomberg would self finance a run, I’d give him support just to give the phony two party duopoly a spanking.
however, many here have a ‘my party right or wrong’ default setting, and the corrupt wahington (D)’s know they can be counted for their support at the ballot box, no matter what.
Then we can all spend the intervening years howling about their spineless cave-ins and cowardice and concessions, and then meekly pull the lever for them again, even for a candidate who says even the most horrifying war crime of another attack against a country that does not threaten the USA is “on the table.”
amazing.
from John V. Walsh at Counterpunch today.
A case against impeachment:
To start off with, I am in favor of impeachment. Well, tar & feathers, to be exact.
But I think impeachment is a path full of pitfalls, easily triggered by Bush loyalists. especially when it gets to the part of the courts.
I think that the better way is via inherent contempt. That way, everything is in house, pardon the pun. And resisting IC is clear grounds for impeachment, open & shut.
I wonder if Conyers is going that way. It seems he could be, but he isn’t saying for sure. Maybe he doesn’t want to tip his hand, maybe he wants to work behind the scene until everything is in place. Mybe he is working hard for those last few he needs to make impeachment a sure thing.
But one thing he is not doing, and this is the heart of the matter: Conyers is not encouraging those that want to see Bushco out of power & punished. I understand he has his manners, but this is not a time for manners- this is a time for taking a stand. And loudly doing so.
Conyers should go to the jail & bail Cindy & co. out himself, with his money, to show support.
well, sheehan showed up with the intention of getting arrested, no? it was a protest. i’ll address the wisdom of the tactic – it’s very much lacking! pressure from constituents = good. shouting at the one person necessary to bring impeachment artricles = bad. looking like you were just in a headshop while doing so = even worse.
look, i want these bastards impeached and punished as much as anyone. but this is far from the way to get that to happen. if Conyers really does believe that “elections are the only recourse” then bad on him. that’s a ridiculous thing to say, bar none. the whole thing is very frustrating, infuriating. impeachment hearings are the only realistic way to split the Republicans against each other, and i believe it is absolutely necessary that they take place. but this isn’t the 60’s, times have changed, and things like this were only questionably helpful back then. now, they do nothing but create an unfair caricature of those on the left (and right) who do support impeachment.
The impeachment of The Clenis™ left a bitter taste in everyone’s mouth, so the already cowardly/spineless democrats are afraid of
Big Bad KKKarl and the New American Fascist Party (aka the GOP).
Impeachment and non-re-election of the fools may get their attention next time around.
not one of you bothered to explain WHY what cindy sheehan did TODAY was a GOOD THING……i genuinely want to know, i genuinely don’t get it……and would like to get it….
you’re all goin’ YEA CINDY! well, why?
the more specific the better, please, since i really don’t get it….
little d…You are so right….Find out who won’t advertise on Air America..We know Exxon, Wal Mart, Home Depot..Think this site had it up. Start today! We’ll feel better. Think about April 15th having a symbolic Boston Tea Party ..Refuse to pay taxes for war and torture on innocent people. Let’s invite Willie Nelson.
#50’s right, #105 dead wrong. We cannot afford to “wait for elections”– the “people” went heavily Demo. in ‘06 & what difference has it made. King Georgie’s surged and created greater destruction & the Dinos fund it!
The only “rule of law” that survives in this country is that now there is no law or accountability if you are rich/ connected/ white/ ReThug. If you’re anything else, open your mouth & you’re f**cked. (I’m not just talkin’ about Cindy, Deity bless her by the way. How about those black kids in Jena, LA who fought back against the local KKKlavern for putting up nooses at their school and are looking at sentences of 22 yrs. to LIFE! High school kids!)
The Dinos are more comfortable with their “friends”, the Joe Liebermans, Lindsey (Closet Case) Grahams and other clueless, racist, fascist scum who are destroying the Middle East and will do the same to this country, than they are with their own constituents, the people who elected them.
Hey #105, have you ever read any BF Skinner. If I go press a lever for the Dinos (which I did, btw) & continue to get ripped off, lied to, beat and told my opinion doesn’t matter, “we don’t have the votes,” the facts don’t matter, we’re already defeated & can’t win, etc: what motivation do I have to go back & press that lever again?
The Demo’s can take down Mr. 25% (& yes, strategy is useful: go after the weak links, Gonzo & Face-Shooter Cheney, 1st, then develop the case against Chimpy) or they can continue to dither as we become a 3rd world fascist state. Hey fellow lobsters, that fire under the pot’s been gettin’ hotter & hotter. Have you noticed? Get out there and do something, and don’t rely on these gutless triangulators, or indeed there will be no pointless, phony elections in ‘08. Wake up!
dcnataro @ 50
It doesn’t look like Bush will need to. Cindy and friends will do it for him.
The plain fact is that DISAFFILIATED LEFTISTS are very angry at the Democrats.
They are perfectly happy to fearmonger, and to talk up the endless myth of a third party, when there are exactly, what, TWO third party members in the Congress. TWO out of 535.
A lot of work to do, and since it would be built on anger at the Democrats, it will constantly run up against the FACT that in a caucus government like ours, any independent or third party person who actually arrives in Congress would have to caucus with us anyhow.
But that’s too distasteful to observe, so it is better to PRETEND.
As for contempt, the hearing is this Wednesday.
T. Atkinson @ 10
Not HARDLY!!!
This is called ‘galvanizing action’ and it WILL have a positive impact . . . the show’s JUST beginning . . . there will be more walks and walkers, more protesters, more demands from We The People.
They are feeling the heat, on BOTH sides of the aisle, methinks!
We just just gotta get something going in the next 9 days, so there is no Recess.
*G*
behindthefall @ 73
Same as last time.
“Gimme an F!”
TexB @ 144
This Larue says thanks to you both and it’s in my bookmarks.
Methinks I will need to refer to this a lot in the next few weeks . . .
*G*
GSD @ 159
Ya know, therin might just lie the secret to putting people in the streets.
Those in the military who OBJECT to BoyKing abusing their valor, honor and support of Constitution and Country.
H m m m m . . . . time to unite the military dissenters . . . . and FULLY embrace them to the cause . . of IMPEACHMENT!
MarktheSpark @ 264
Sing it, brotha!
Funny thing about the “elections” argument…people are always complaining about the negative ads, big money, and corrupt elections. Not a whole lotta debate I would guess on that.
But now we’re supposed to wait to make a change by partaking in this rigged system?!? We have to do something now, and fortunately the Founding Fathers anticipated a time such as our current Constitutional Crisis.
Although….maybe we should wait and see what Gen. Patraeus thinks about it all…in a few months…when he gets around to it. Yea that’s it, just be patient and trust our leaders. They know how Washington works, not us little people.
Paul in LA @ 256
Bush don’t need troops, hoss.
He’s already contracted Blackwater.
They are building a HUGE facility in San Diego.
They are HERE. To stay. And they are in Iraq.
You forget Katrina and their role in THAT?
They got LOTS of available stormtroopers to shoot civvie’s in the streets, and drag the rest to the detention pens.
larue @ 272
FEARMONGERING feels so good, eh?
They are trying to build a Blackwater site at the border, and that is a problem. If you think it’s “huge,” then you know nothing about it. It’s a smallish site, maybe hold something like 400 ‘trainees.’
So you’re LYING, and fearmongering. There are NOT lots of stormtroopers, and there is NOT enough of any sort of troop to hold the country in martial law, much less Los Angeles, and the deployment of maybe 50 Blackwater during Katrina, disgusting and illegal as that was, does not make your other claims so.
Boo!
larue @ 267
H’yeah, the action galvanized being not letting GSM Sheehan into Conyers’ offices again.
Anyone who has ever done any federal activism understands the feel-good errors GSM Sheehan and CodePink are making. You just keep pushing and hollering, and then all of a sudden the doors don’t open any more. And then the disaffiliated — having shown their lack of respect — can feel wronged and join with others in feeling wronged together.
And none of that is effective political action.
My hero, plain and simple.
Cindy Sheehan RULES!!!
MPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH
IMPEACH CHIMPEA IMPEACH CHIMPEA
IMPEACH CHIMPEA IMPEACH CHIMPEA
IMPEACH CHIMPY IMPEACH CHIMPY
Jwoods @ 22
I won’t lie. There could easily be some Dems who really like the idea of consolidating power. It’s only human to want to sustain the position they’ve gotten, perhaps improving it some.
But, as I understand it, this is what’s happened: the Republicans decided to block everything productive (such as impeaching and kicking out Cheney & Bush) in the Senate and the Dems are responding by forcing them to declare their position more vocally and for the American public to hear, so that the Senate Repubs will be shown for what they are and so they’ll have to make a choice to support Bush fully and in public or to move away from Bush to support the public, America and the Constitution.
Is that bad?
How else could Dems have moved the ball forward? If the Senate Repubs could convince the public that it was the Senate Dems who were somehow failures or were playing politics, then the Senate Repub lies would win the day. All the Dems are doing is showing up the Repubs to disclose their hypocrisy and to prevent the public from being manipulated with lies.
Is there a problem with that?
IMO, It’s the right thing for the Country to get past Bush & Co and if we have to expose lies and hypocrisy from the Congressional Republicans, then so be it.
valletta @ 81
Nationally yes, but how about in the states where the Republican senators won’t end the war in Iraq and very likely would stick together to protect Bush & Cheney?
onceler @ 260
Within ONE COMMENT THREAD the rumor of what he said has gone from
‘Elections may be your ‘best’ recourse.’
to ‘the only recourse.’
And a new leftist myth is established.
G’damn Chairman Conyers for saying things he never said and not doing what he is doing, and not doing it on an activist calendar that has no politics attached to it. Shit, you don’t even have to treat the Speaker or the Chairman with respect! You can just wing it and hope to shame them as if they were guilty for these policies (which they are NOT).
It is possible that GSM Sheehan requested arrest. We don’t know all the facts. But GSM’s threats against Pelosi’s seat were a real brainy move, and this may have been another.
Sen. Domenici’s closed-door impeachment statement
Released into Congressional Record, February 12, 1999
rest @ http://tinyurl.com/33oqzg