Hiya dinosaur :-)

Abuse and hate and more violence as self promotion and a fundraising tool: Don’t think I’ve seen that before. Oh wait, yes, I have. I fight against it all the time. I won’t stop when I see, what I thought was “my side”, doing it to my own side. Huh? Makes no sense at all. I am not and will never be on the side of anyone proposing more violence. Ever.

dmac – your “bullshit” call was spot on.

So, bring your violent threats and heavy handed guilt tactics, just like last week. You cannot harm me. After all the years of “terr terr fear fear” I’ve endured… NO. You cannot harm me.

Maryam @ 43

Stop telling lies to yourself American. We know that your racist brutal murdering war criminal troops came from your society and reflect its values. we know that because we see how they behave and have to bury their victims. If you are stupid enough to think we feel anything but hatred and contrempt for your soldiers and the country that sent them to make war on my people then you are a fool.

As to Saddam bad though he was your country is far worse.

Dang, Ma’am! You paint with mighty broad paint strokes! I fully empathize with you and I know that we here at the lake share the same sentiments! We sincerely regret the war crimes committed in our name, yet, you must realize that many Americans do not condone it! I’m a twenty yr Vet, I would not have committed, in fact I would have reported such atrocities if they occurred within my purview!!!

We’ve had many chances to mitigate or outright halt such harm, and we as a nation failed to do so. While people died, our Congress played political games with the White House, using the lives of not just Iraqis, but Americans, Canadian, English, and other coalition forces as pieces in that game. We knew what was happening, and we had a good idea that we knew why it was happening, and instead of, say, voting Bush out of office on 2004 or threatening enough Congresscritters with explusion from their precious jobs, we just let the propaganda wash over us and went on with our lives.

“Reported such atrocities?” To whom? Yes, you probably would have reported them to your CO. Who would’ve been told that the men handling the interrogation are not to be disturbed, and that you should be restationed elsewhere. Or that you should just keep mum while your higher-ups spin it to keep you out of as little jail time as possible. That’s what’s happened already, in that very situation – why would yours be any different?

Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands have died. Thousands have been tortured for years. Tens of thousands remain captive in camps. All because we’re afraid. We’re afraid that someone might violate that envelope we call “American life” again – and that fear has been used as a weapon against us to ensure that we buy into the absolute horror the Bush administration has been pushing in Afghanistan, Iraq, and who knows where else?

It’s hard to take the high moral ground here. Of course she’s angry and contemptuous. We’ve obliterated her country – even if we pulled out now, it’ll take years or even decades to recover. It’s hard for me to claim empathy from my cushy chair and keyboard, while she’s mopping up our victims. It’s going to take actions, not words, over a long period of time to reverse that open anger & contempt – remember, we knew what was going on during the 2004 election and we still voted Bush back into office! We still supported “the surge!” Our Congress was ineffective at preventing even more bloodshed because we were ineffective in telling them that it was important to us that they stop it. In fact, we tacitly approved of what was happening, because as long as it wasn’t happening to us, it was palatable. We claimed that we would be liberating the Iraqi people – then we killed more of them in half a decade than Saddam did during his entire reign. And we did it impersonally. “Just another hadji running a roadblock – shoot them.” We’ve destroyed archeological sites that describe the very history of mankind on this planet – and crushed them up so we could make tank roads. We’ve actually run the culture of Iraq under our tanks – we’ve looted, we’ve pillaged, we’ve raped, we’ve killed, and so far, we’ve held very damn few folks accountable for it. But, we just look at the reports, shake our heads, and keep drinking our latte. We’ve watched the opposition go from “troops loyal to Saddam” to “former Revolutionary Guards” to “insurgents loyal to the Baa’thists” to “insurgents loyal to Shi’a” to “insurgents loyal to Al’Qaida” to “Al’Qaida” right before our eyes, and we’ve just shrugged our shoulders and gone along with it. We know we’re being lied to, but as long as the lie doesn’t affect too many of our every day lives, we’re OK with it. Every time someone’s spoken up about, maybe, suggesting that we possibly pull our troops out, they’ve been blasted as “unAmerican” and “unpatriotic” and “they’re not supporting the troops” or “they’re not supporting the President.” So we shrug, go back to our jobs, and hope that the economy doesn’t collapse over paying for the war effort. Or that our boys & girls come home with their shields and not on them. Or that there won’t be another terrorist attack because, if they thought they had reason before, well, we’ve given them far more reason now to hate us.

Meanwhile, people still die. Iraqis kill Americans, Americans kill Iraqis. The dead don’t care about politics – it’s a Boolean for them. They would rather be alive, but now they’re dead. It’s not a switch you can unflip with a debate. All you can do is stop flipping the switch.

If you don’t like the broad brush with which we’re being painted, don’t regret the atrocities that caused such damning painting. Do something about it. Vote for folks who won’t continue this madness. March to get it to stop. Make sure that your voice is heard, loud and clear, to anyone & everyone that has the power to stop it. Make sure this never happens again. Ever.

Maryam @ 43

Stop telling lies to yourself American. We know that your racist brutal murdering war criminal troops came from your society and reflect its values. we know that because we see how they behave and have to bury their victims. If you are stupid enough to think we feel anything but hatred and contrempt for your soldiers and the country that sent them to make war on my people then you are a fool.

As to Saddam bad though he was your country is far worse.

Dang, Ma’am! You paint with mighty broad paint strokes! I fully empathize with you and I know that we here at the lake share the same sentiments! We sincerely regret the war crimes committed in our name, yet, you must realize that many Americans do not condone it! I’m a twenty yr Vet, I would not have committed, in fact I would have reported such atrocities if they occurred within my purview!!!

The problem in Irak is the presence of the invaders. It is not possible to even begin to reconstruct until that problem is solved. The violence is because the American invader is there. Not despite it. If as you claim, you want to help, then you tackle the root problem. Which is that your troops are in our country. Until then the violence will escalate. The attacks are to make the country ungovernable and they are working.

It is a rare opportunity for us to hear this perspective in our country. I hope you can understand that it is very difficult for the average American to get anything but propaganda out of our national news — print, radio or TV. Even more ‘balanced’ international news networks don’t provide adequate perspectives from Iraqis working and living in Iraq.

it is only rare if you only listen to the propaganda. this is a total no brainer. maryam speaks absolutely common sense. bottom line, we need the oil. it doesn’t matter to the designers of this ‘new middle east map’ how many people die or suffer. wake up, we’re on a path that only goes in one direction. it’s revolution or else.

i made it thru 1/2 the comments so excuse me for jumping in before reading all of the thread..

genocide. that is what i think is happening.

Stop telling lies to yourself American. We know that your racist brutal murdering war criminal troops came from your society and reflect its values.

absolutely. unfortunately this is a fact. fortunately we have other people here, and other values. it does wrench my heart everyday our voices don’t matter, because they don’t.

What we konw is that when it comes murdering Iraki civilians that there is no difference between the cynical and corrupt party called the Democrats and the cynical and corrupt party called the Republicans. Both are infected with the belief that America has the right to behave as it wishes especially when the people being killed are not white.

well.. in terms of the representatives of these parties, meaning those in power, those that pull the strings……..of course. however, we have the illusion, as americans that we are the parties, we aren’t. i really don’t know how our voices can make a difference. i know we can be heard, i know they hear us, but the reality is, we have no control.

the corporate juggernaut is in control. they control elections..media…war..military.. we are screaming in the wind. and yes, the soldiers you encounter are part of us. they represent us.

bummer. genocide. massive bummer. sorry hardly cuts it.

thanks maryam. in solidarity. i wish, i wish, i could do more. we are not in control of our government. the more we know, the more we realize we are in a fascist state.

And I’ll just bet you thought I was a sailor! :)

And thank you for donating to Red Crescent. They do amazing work.