That’s what comes of supporting a series of inflammatory right-wing candidates since 1964, when Barry Goldwater, accepting the Republican nomination, famously proclaimed, “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

Goldwater was a liberal compared with the monarchists in office now, but his overt defense of “extremism” welcomed right-wing demagogues of every stripe into the eager arms of the Republican party.

Well put, maybe we can all try very hard to make sure that doesn’t happen.

I think everyone is looking at this backwards, though, I don’t think there’s any doubt what the public wants done NOW.

September won’t be the moment the public finally says “NO”, that happened in November 2006.

September will be the moment when “they” admit there’s no way they will continue to get support from the public. They are watching for the anti-war sentiment to crack somehow, and unless we have a miracle peace treaty in Iraq, or a terrible disaster her in the US, that just isn’t possible.

…oh, yeah, that last comment about there being onlytwo ways they can change public opinion? If they refuse to go quietly into the trash bin of political history, and leave this war for the next President to cleanup,then I wonder whichscenario is more likely, another mysteriously enabled “event” or some sort of real success in Iraq?

And is that what they are hinting at, with Chertoff’s gastric crystal ball, and the latest NIE?

My tinfoil hat is tingling.

Christy;

Thanks for the link to my somewhat arcane procedural note. :-) I just love coming here because FDL has the smartest commenters in the whole damned blogosphere — seriously!

Bob

Ditto

PS “Never make a bet that Republicans will do the right thing.” LOL707

I wonder what the odds would be in Vegas?
Probably can’t get those odds, it would be sort of like betting on All Start Wrestling.

Bob Geiger @ 196

Christy;

Thanks for the link to my somewhat arcane procedural note. :-) I just love coming here because FDL has the smartest commenters in the whole damned blogosphere — seriously!

Bob

George Boosh is a poopyhead!

and sophisticated tooo!

If I may, I want to write a little about Al Gore’s book, Assault on Reason, …

Gore also writes about the “market-place of ideas”, which he links to the “public forum”

…

3. An unspoken duty to search for general agreement.

…

Gore’s #1 & #2 are critical for #3. Without encompassing diversity, there is no assurance that much cream will rise to the top. This, I think, is where FDL gets the lowest marks. Do we really offer a “fair and balanced” perspective? Do we even search for “general agreement,” except among ourselves? Where will the cream rise to the surface? …

I think Gore makes many valuable points, and offers much meat for us to chew on in contemplating the future of FDL, and how to make it an even better voice for progressive values.

What do you think?

Bob in HI WI AZ

Merely being satisfied with seeking a consensus is what will get Hillary Clinton elected.

In my view, right now America desperately needs great leadership.

fdl is where we discuss the day’s events and each of us responds. Some might even suggest next steps. Nobody really is seeking someone else’s agreement, though it does arise at times.

Some say we’re all tin-foil hat, some say we are Bush-haters, but in reality we’re just Americans who want things to go better than they currently are.

Of course, the activist side, where people raise money and support political candidates and petition their government is noticeably Progressive. These folks already have a perspective and issues they want worked on.

What ‘fair and balanced’ input do we need? We hear the MSM and Faux News all the time. Isn’t it time for the Truth and Real Progress?

By forcing the discussion now, Dems forced Republicans into the fall-back position of saying, “The war should begin to end not now, but in September.” …

Tougher for Republicans to lie? I don’t think so. This falsely assumes that the Petreaus report will not have ambiguities and wistful references to a yet more distant future. When September comes, January will be the new September. If Petreaus really does conclude there is irredemable FUBAR, he’ll be replaced, the report will be delayed a month, and the October report will talk about all the freshly painted schools and whatnot. …

Iraq’s new name = The Republic of Potemkin

{{{{KathienMN}}}
and a group hug for
{{{{Big Mitch – Kathleen – oddmommy}}}}

and what’s wrong with being pro-Palestinian? A lot of my Israeli friends are, so why can’t Kathleen support or use materials from sites endorsed by many Israeli citizens, some of whom are Jewish, do-si-do?

I agree with Big Mitch and oddmommy that it is important to keep debate about issues having to do ith Israel as rational as possible. But we seldom have had threads which dealt directly with important issues in this area, most notably the trial involving the guys who worked for the agency which we cannot name without clogging the toobz. It is the ONLY important trial in the DC area having to do with important national security issues which fdl hasn’t covered IIRC.

There are many Jewish commenters here, some secular, others very involved in their faith. I’m sure some feel uncomfortable when Israel issues come up and just go away until later. Others, like Big Mitch are very assertive, and sometimes brilliant.

I find most of kathleen’s comments to be factual. Since the number of threads presented here are so few on Israel-Palestine issues and on USA national security issues having to do with our “special relationship,” which trouble many rational people worldwide, I suggest that commenters try to bring these subjects up on more OT-open threads than on threads which are quite subject-specific. This thread appears to have gone sort of OT right away.

I am pro-Palestinian pro-Israel (based on the UN internationally recognized 67 border)

I actually said that the dialogue should be respectful. It was both Odd Mommy and Big Mitch who went into the attack mode, read the comments.

I do agree that the debate about this issue is often shut down really fast by name calling and false claims. But when name calling and selective claims of one person going Off topic and this only comes up when the lobby or Israel comes up is suspect.

I am committed to discussing this issue respectfully!

I still think we should give everyone in the House of Represatives plastic silverware and a paper plate imprinted with “Set the Table for Impeachment.”

Months ago there was some big banquet at which the new Speaker and other leading Dems were guests. At each table setting was a flawless white placecard, beautifully-engraved in a script font with but one word: Impeachment. Can no longer find the picture, unfortunately.

and what’s wrong with being pro-Palestinian? A lot of my Israeli friends are, so why can’t Kathleen support or use materials from sites endorsed by many Israeli citizens, some of whom are Jewish, do-si-do?

I agree with Big Mitch and oddmommy that it is important to keep debate about issues having to do ith Israel as rational as possible. But we seldom have had threads which dealt directly with important issues in this area, most notably the trial involving the guys who worked for the agency which we cannot name without clogging the toobz. It is the ONLY important trial in the DC area having to do with important national security issues which fdl hasn’t covered IIRC.

There are many Jewish commenters here, some secular, others very involved in their faith. I’m sure some feel uncomfortable when Israel issues come up and just go away until later. Others, like Big Mitch are very assertive, and sometimes brilliant.

I find most of kathleen’s comments to be factual. Since the number of threads presented here are so few on Israel-Palestine issues and on USA national security issues having to do with our “special relationship,” which trouble many rational people worldwide, I suggest that commenters try to bring these subjects up on more OT-open threads rather than on threads which are quite subject-specific. This thread appears to have gone sort of OT right away.