Plus, if you haven’t noticed, we’ve been a little busy working on habeas and other immediate legislative needs, along with my dealing with a house full of company and Jane dealing with some other matters the last few days. All this to say, patience is a virtue — and we’ll hopefully have the space to come up for air soon but…well, my phone is ringing again and I’m going to have to leave it at that for now.

i’m trying to get a feel for the culture here.

my first impression
is that my comments don’t get addressed. that’s okay per se, but i’m too new here to understand if it’s the norm. one of my reasons for coming here is because the dkos megamall can be too big and thus have a lack of focus.

however.even with that high volume traffic, my posts get replies. in a weeks time i have posted numerous times about use of video as a way of helping with the mission of this site.

not a single reply from site front pagers. donate 200 dollars, no reply. It’s not about polite protocol — though as a southernor that would be nice too.. it’s about content and ideation — and interaction on ideas.

i dont want to form the wrong impression but so far the flow of posts and comments here appears to be (1) there are excellent people who blog very thoughtfully and insightfully on front page every day — that’s the currency — the value of that superb brainpower. (2) then there is a comments section, which feels to me like Dfa’s blog during dean campaign… In fact, hi renee in ohio — nice tomeet up again…

The cultural vibehere is much like a chat room where people hang out socially.

id like to get some feedback because if this is a place where front pagers don’t engage the peanut gallery for everyone else, then no thanks. Been there done that.

if im going to take the time to be thoughtful, and my stuff flows by unaddressed, then that,s not fulfilling for me.

many places on web have different cultures and styles, whis is GOOD. but chat rooms are not my cup of tea… so some honest feedback would be greatly appreciated. I simply may not fit here. thanks much!

That is because if Bush is never held accountable for what he did in office, future presidents will be greatly tempted to adopt features of his practices.

This is precisely what John Nichols and Bruce Fein were saying on the Bill Moyers program broadcast last Friday, to wit:

BRUCE FEIN: One of the lessons we should have learned from the Nixon impeachment is that it didn’t quite fulfill its purpose because Nixon was never compelled to renounce what he’d done.

JOHN NICHOLS: Yes.

BRUCE FEIN: And after which he boasted that what the president does it it’s legal. He wasn’t repentant at all. If we had insisted maybe as a condition of the pardon or otherwise, you need to repent. We are a government of laws, not of men. And it’s wrong for anyone to assert unchecked power. That would have had such a pedagogical effect that would have deterred anything in the future. We’ve got to make certain this time around we get that proper acknowledgement from the–

JOHN NICHOLS: –there was a group of members, Democratic members of the House, who went to Tipp O’Neil and to-

BILL MOYERS: Then speaker of the House.

JOHN NICHOLS: –back in 1974, after Nixon had resigned, and said, “We must continue the impeachment process.” It’s– it is under the Constitution certainly appropriate to do so. And we must continue it because we have to close the circle on presidential power. And the leaders in Congress, the Democratic leaders in Congress at the time said, “No, the– country has suffered too much.” Well, this is the problem. Our leaders treat us as children. They think that we cannot handle a serious dialogue about the future of our republic, about what it will be and how it will operate. And so, you know, to an extent, we begin to act like children. We, you know, follow other interests. We decide to be entertained rather than to be citizens.

Of course, they were talking about the failure to follow through on sage advice of a select group of Dems over thirty years ago!!!

Even for me, the “like” thingy was way too picky.

1) It became a circus, our voices diluted by people who refuse to stay on message. That message needs to be solidified into one universal, encompassing message that will serve the interests of all the single issues groups under the progressive tent: IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY – END THIS WAR. Dress in black, wear black arm bands; skip the clown outfits and spray paint, and make a singular, unmistakable point in solidarity.

This was my point in a prior thread about Code Pink, even as they proclaim to be “focusing on” the issue of ending the war. I consider their clownish dress (complete with faux Statute of Liberty crowns) to be “circus”.

Suzanne @ 54

I have to disagree with violent acts, which are not encouraged nor permitted here at the Lake. However, everything else, yeah, I think that is what it is going to take to make our voices heard.

We don’t have to be violent; we only have to take to the streets.

And I know, many of us have already done that.

But here’s where we went wrong:

1) It became a circus, our voices diluted by people who refuse to stay on message. That message needs to be solidified into one universal, encompassing message that will serve the interests of all the single issues groups under the progressive tent: IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY – END THIS WAR. Dress in black, wear black arm bands; skip the clown outfits and spray paint, and make a singular, unmistakable point in solidarity.

2) The media did not cover the protests, in contrast to the protests of the 1960’s; they refuse to do so because their chief shareholders and paycheck signers are compromised and complicit in this debacle. From now on we take the protest to the media and shut it down; we protest on their doorstep, blocking the street to the offices of radio and television stations and corporate headquarters so that they have no choice but to cover it, because they are part of the story of this illegal war.

Mike Stark and Spocko were successful in their efforts taking on the corrupt and facile corporate media — we need to see these successes as a beginning, not just an end. The corporate media is the mouthpiece of the monster; shove it back at the monster at the point of entry.

Rayne, the idea that we bring the protests to the media is a fundamental strategy that must be used time and time again.
Until they are forced to see our faces and hear what we have to say – Impeach – Stop the War – they appear to nearly ignore us. We appear in a few statistics and then, not so much.
During Viet Nam, we appeared in professors’ offices and college quads.
This time, it has to be at media stations, newspaper buildings, and if need be the ultimate owners GE and Disney.

–

It also prompts a related question:

Why will we be there?

–

I didn’t attend YK #1…. Having already been to enough conventions and Knowledge Tracks and Panels to last me a lifetime, I didn’t really see the value. So I opted not to attend — though I loved the idea of a gathering to have people who’d conversed via text for years to finally meet in person – and to help the movement coalesce.

I’d LOVED that magic moment in Des Moines in January 2004 at the occasion of the Dean grassroots First Bloggers’ Breakfast, organized by “Darrell in Iowa”. Putting faces and voices to people I’d worked with virtually for 2 years was just highly-charged. So, I for sure see the value of The People convening at YearlyKos.

Maybe my choice wasn’t a good one, but the larger reason why I didn’t attend was: I really didn’t care what most of thye speakers had to say, and didn’t expect anything other than typical placating speeches, and red meat lines tossed out to rally the crowd. But in the end, when the smoke cleared, what was the value to us? Value to THEM for sure, but what about us?

THIS YEAR, I had already determined I’m not going, for the same reasons — I really could give a s*** about what Hillary or Obama or Edwards or anyone has to say – other than maybe Al Gore or Howard Dean — who actually say things that advance the actions of the movement — vs advancing the career objectives of the speakers.

EXPERIMENT: If I gave each of you video footage of the following…

* Shots of the YearlyKos convention signs
* Shots of that logo on a podium
* Shots of a frenetic crowd of progressives listening attentively, and then breaking into a burst of applause and whistling and cheering
* Shots of Hillary at a podium speaking at another venue, let’s just say “Take Back America” conference
* Shots of Obama speaking at another venue
* Shots of Edwards speaking at anorther venue
* Point of view shots from the podium looking down across the expanse of people listening, and again cheering at key points (all pulled from other speeches at other events)
* Cutaway Close Ups of people in crowd sporting YearlyKos badges, maybe even a delighted Mom with her little 3 year old on her shoulder for a sec — chearing on with the crowd
* Cutaway shots of cameras and tripods and streamers and balloons …

…. and gave you a film editor to work with, who would cut that footage together per your direction, don’t you think you could approximate anything and everything you will eventually hear from Obama, Hillary, Edwards et al?

I mean really, how many variations on a feel good speech to supporters are there?

I’m just saying, I was set NOT to go to YearlyKos because I have yet to see a real leader step up and tell me why he/she is making a difference now (per your point, TRex) and what they were doing about ending the war right now, and what they were doing right now to bring impeachment charges against Bush Cheney Gonzo, and what they were doing about the blatant F.You’s from the Bush Admin during these extensive oversight hearings.

But it struck me about 3 months ago — THAT’s not the reason for me to go to YearlyKos. The reason is to meet the extraordinary people making a difference TODAY, breaking new ground, using new tools and methods to pierce the bubble created and guarded by the Conglomerate Media Cartel.

And those people are: YOU here at Firedoglake – the proprietors and live bloggers — Jane, Christy, Marcy and Guests Jeralyn and Swopa and everyone else I’ve missed — plus Josh Marshal and the gang at TPM, plus the folks at epluribusMedia, the folks who do editorial culling (DiaryRescue) at DailyKos, the people at PoliticsTV, John Amato and Nicole at CrooksAnd Liars — in short the people who are the action-takers forging a tangible new path to connect with mainstream America.

And when that thought clicked in me in an instant, I registered that day for YearlyKos, bought hotel rooms, airline tix etc.

And THIS is why I have appeared at Firdoglake — as a newbie — as I have stated a few times before. There is more to do in the realm of using new media to transcend just text-to-text commnication, and move into TV, the language of mainstream America. And that’s what I’m here to do. And I look forward to meeting you certified Movers and Shakers.

So, reflecting on your post, TRex ‘Why are you here?’, I think it’s really appropriate to ask “why show up at their speeches?”. Seriously. I’d like to hear.

thanks, and look forward to meeting y’all

rhfactor

TRex, as usual, you’re dead on! A small observation: What better forum for the Four Sens than the floor of the Senate at this early stage! Durbin and Reed did an admirable job today in that very forum!!! 8-) PS. I notified the last thread!!!

I would hazard a bet that Rep. Kucinich has not missed any votes. Why the hell more people don’t support him is beyond me.