The Bush/Cheney White House is now in open defiance of Congress, the wishes of the American people, the Constitution, and the rule of law, and every week its actions are becoming more arrogant, lawless and monarchical. They are essentially daring Congress to confront them, because they believe Congress has neither the spine nor the institutional strength to stop this lawless regime. It is time to prove them wrong.
Last Friday, Bill Moyer’s Journal provided a forum for two responsible citizens — one a liberal, the other a conservative, both patriots who care deeply about their country — to explain as eloquently as can be said what needs to be done. You can watch the full program here; below the fold are excepts from the transcript, just a small part of what Bruce Fein and John Nichols said. Every American should watch or read the full program.
There is no more important issue in America today than impeachment, not even Iraq, because any wise resolution of the Iraq occupation, as well as every other public policy issue, requires a White House that is willing to work with Congress as a co-equal branch, that has the confidence of the American people, and that can function within the boundaries of the Constitution and the rule of law. Failing on all three counts, President Bush and Vice President Cheney have brought us to this point by defying the law, the Congress, and the American people, thus gravely undermining the Constitution. The Founders provided a remedy for exactly this kind of dangerous, monarchical behavior. It is time for Congress to apply the cure, and for the nation’s media to demand that it do so.
Congress has telephone numbers:
1 (800) 828 – 0498
1 (800) 459 – 1887
1 (800) 614 – 2803
1 (866) 340 – 9281
1 (866) 338 – 1015
1 (877) 851 – 6437
Excerpts from Bill Moyer’s Journal
BRUCE FEIN: . . . I think Bush’s crimes are a little bit different. I think they’re a little bit more worrisome than Clinton’s. You don’t have to have–
BILL MOYERS: More worrisome?
BRUCE FEIN: More worrisome than Clinton’s– because he is seeking more institutionally to cripple checks and balances and the authority of Congress and the judiciary to superintend his assertions of power. He has claimed the authority to tell Congress they don’t have any right to know what he’s doing with relation to spying on American citizens, using that information in any way that he wants in contradiction to a federal statute called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He’s claimed authority to say he can kidnap people, throw them into dungeons abroad, dump them out into Siberia without any political or legal accountability. These are standards that are totally anathema to a democratic society devoted to the rule of law.
BILL MOYERS: It seems to me the country is ahead of Congress on this. How do you explain all this talk about impeachment today out across the country?
JOHN NICHOLS: People don’t want to let this go. They do not accept Nancy Pelosi’s argument that impeachment is, quote/unquote, off the table. Because I guess maybe they’re glad she didn’t take some other part of the Constitution off the table like freedom of speech. But they also don’t accept the argument that, oh, well, there’s a presidential campaign going on. So let’s just hold our breath till Bush and Cheney get done.
When I go out across America, what I hear is something that’s really very refreshing and very hopeful about this country. An awfully lot of Americans understand what Thomas Jefferson understood. And that is that the election of a president does not make him a king for four years. That if a president sins against the Constitution– and does damage to the republic, the people have a right in an organic process to demand of their House of Representatives, the branch of government closest to the people, that it act to remove that president. And I think that sentiment is afoot in the land.
BILL MOYERS: Bruce, you talk about overreaching. What, in practical terms, do you mean by that?
BRUCE FEIN: It means asserting powers and claiming that there are no other branches that have the authority to question it. Take, for instance, the assertion that he’s made that when he is out to collect foreign intelligence, no other branch can tell him what to do. That means he can intercept your e-mails, your phone calls, open your regular mail, he can break and enter your home. He can even kidnap you, claiming I am seeking foreign intelligence and there’s no other branch Congress can’t say it’s illegal–judges can’t say this is illegal. I can do anything I want. That is overreaching. When he says that all of the world, all of the United States is a military battlefield because Osama bin Laden says he wants to kill us there, and I can then use the military to go into your homes and kill anyone there who I think is al-Qaeda or drop a rocket, that is overreaching. That is a claim even King George III didn’t make . . . at the time of the Revolution.
BRUCE FEIN: Let me underscore one of the things that you remember, Bill, ’cause I was there at the time of Watergate. And this relates to one political– official in the White House, Sara Taylor’s testimony. And claiming that George Bush could tell her to be silent.
BILL MOYERS: That was a great moment when Sara Taylor said, “I took an oath to uphold the president.” Did you see that?
BRUCE FEIN: Yes. And that was like the military in Germany saying, “My oath is to the Fuhrer, not to the country.” She took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. I did, too, when I was in the government. There’s no oath that says, “I’m loyal to a president even if he defiles the Constitution.”
JOHN NICHOLS: You– we’re at this table because the fact of the matter is that impeachment has moved well up the list of things we can talk about because of the Scooter Libby affair. Now, should it be the– one that tipped it? I think Bruce and I would probably both agree no. There are probably more important issues. But the Scooter Libby affair gets to the heart of what I think an awfully lot of Americans are concerned about with this administration and with the executive branch in– general, that it is lawless, that– it can rewrite the rules for itself, that it can protect itself.
And, you know, the founders anticipated just such a moment. If you look at the discussions in the Federalist Papers but also at the Constitutional Convention, when they spoke about impeachment, one of the things that Madison and George Mason spoke about was the notion that you needed the power to impeach particularly as regards to pardons and commutations because a president might try to take the burden of the law off members of his administration to prevent them from cooperating with Congress in order to expose wrongdoings by the president himself. And so Madison said that is why we must have the power to impeach. Because otherwise a president might be able to use his authority and pardons and such to prevent an investigation from getting to him.
JOHN NICHOLS: Sneering is not an impeachable sentence. But the founders who had recently fought a revolution against a king named George would tell you that monarchical behavior, the behavior of a king, acting like a king, is an impeachable offense. You need not look for specific laws or statutes. What you need to look for is a pattern of behavior that says that the presidency is superior not merely to Congress but to the laws of the land, to the rules of law. And that is why we ought to be discussing impeachment. Not because of George Bush and Dick Cheney but because we are establishing a presidency that does not respect the rule of law. And people, Americans, are rightly frightened by that. Their fear is the fear of the founders. It is appropriate. It is necessary.
JOHN NICHOLS: The hearings are important. There’s no question at that. And we should be at that stage. Remember, Thomas Jefferson and others, the founders, suggested that impeachment was an organic process. That information would come out. The people would be horrified. They would tell their representatives in Congress, “You must act upon this.” Well, the interesting thing is we are well down the track in the organic process. The people are saying it’s time. We need some accountability.
BILL MOYERS: But Nancy Pelosi doesn’t agree.
JOHN NICHOLS: Nancy Pelosi is wrong. Nancy Pelosi is disregarding her oath of office. She should change course now. And more importantly, members of her caucus and responsible Republicans should step up. It is not enough–
JOHN NICHOLS: You are seeing impeachment as a constitutional crisis. Impeachment is the cure for a constitutional crisis. Don’t mistake the medicine for the disease. When you have a constitutional crisis, the founders are very clear. They said there is a way to deal with this. We don’t have to have a war. We don’t have to raise an army and go to Washington. We have procedures in place where we can sanction a president appropriately, do what needs to be done up to the point of removing him from office and continue the republic. So we’re not talking here about taking an ax to government. Quite the opposite. We are talking about applying some necessary strong medicine that may cure not merely the crisis of the moment but, done right . . .
The people themselves have said, if the polls are correct, that, you know, something ought to be done. If nothing is done, if we do not step forward at this point, if we do not step up to this point, then we have, frankly, told the people, you know, you can even recognize that the king has no clothes, but we’re not gonna put any clothes on him. And at that point, the country is in very, very dire circumstances.
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zip
Caw, caw!
zunoed?
IMPEACH!
Ah, missed it by THAT much…
IMPEACHMENT? ~ Forget the Leadership.Convince the Judiciary Committee.
IMPEACH !!
Hi Scarecrow. Hi y’all. I DO understand all of this one, and I think that congress needs to impeach Cheney and Bush.
Throw the bums out!
Vitter says the New Orleans stories are not true. He’s staying on.
Loo Hoo. @ 10
Does that mean he was only with prostitutes in one city but not in two?
Wife stands by her man. A little different than her Bobbit statement.
Vitter’s wife is complaining about the persecution of her poor husband.
I seem to remember her making fun of Hillary.
When it is being openly discussed on public television, then the shark has been jumped.
Impeach Alberto first.
SnarKassandra @ 11
I would guess more likely “I didn’t do it and you can’t catch me or prove it.”
Cool! This is teh first time I’ve been EPU’d here when EPU was here!!
Also, the first time I’ve ever used “teh.” It was unintentional, but I left it, so people’ll think I’m hip.
Snark, he admitted to the DC prostitutes. I guess he forgot that it is illegal…
AnnieW at 13 — Apparently, it’s a little different when the chicken comes home to roost in your own bedroom. Ahem.
SnarKassandra @ 11
Dang, you’re perceptive for your tender age!!! 8-)
Thank you Michael Wolfe.
IMPEACH!!!!!
(Now.)
Scarecrow!
Moyers!
Yes, yes, yes…Impeachment has got to happen. The unitary executive needs to be firmly rejected, and we can’t trust the Roberts’ to uphold the constitution.
Tucker’s pissed that the media followed Vitter to church.
I watched the aforementioned PBS ‘Impeachment’ show. It was fair and balanced.
Also, if CNN can spend the time/money to do this point by point (attack?);
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBI…..index.html
why don’t they do the same for all the cheney/bush claims? Until the media finds its shriveled balls and unshrivels them little will move forward.
Damn straight!
The Republic is seriously ill, on life support.
Impeachment is the cure!
Ed*ard Teller @ 14
:~)
Some men pay for prostitutes while others get them for free. But whether Senator David Vitter or Rep. Duke Cunningham paid for pleasure with their cash or their votes, their Republican colleagues appear ready to protect their Johns all the same, at least as long as public opinion will allow.
For the details, see:
“Vitter, Cunningham and the GOP Parliament of Whores.”
Loo Hoo. @ 15
I wonder what the statute of limitations is.
I dare say that we’ve reached a consensus on impeachment.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 18
I hadn’t heard about teh chickens. Gosh.
Vitter’s wife said they would “work” together for their family. That says it all. He’s “cut off”.
janda @ 27
Are the Senate Ethics committee members listening??? ;-)
wow. senator feingold’s anti-impeachment diary at dkos has 1371 (and counting) comments.
Translation from NE Iowa ET,
Cool! “Dis is deh first time I’ve been EPU’D when EPU was here!!”
Gotta love us Bohemians dontcha?
I wish our politicians would let us know how much input they’re getting from the public re impeachment.
Mrs. K8 @ 25
Well said. We silently weep for our nation.
selise @ 32
Maybe it will wake him up.
selise @ 32
Good.
My illustrious (NOT!) Senator Kyl came out in support of Vitter, suggesting that no crime was committed (!!!).
I guess D.C. Madam Jeanne Palfrey will be happy to know that prostitution is no longer illegal.
Perhaps Kyl’s comments suggest it might be wise to look for Arizona area codes in Palfrey’s released phone records.
I thought Vitter’s wife promised a Bobbit response if her husband ever strayed. Worth pointing out that soliciting a prostitute is illegal in most states, and no one ever accused Bill Clinton of having to pay for his indiscretions.
SnarKassandra @ 11
Cassie for president in 2027! :~)
LS @ 38
one of them is mine.
Mrs. K8 @ 38
spurious @ 40
2032, but yes, CASSIE FOR PRESIDENT!
Charge, Indict and Impeach them!
Impeach!
There is no more important issue in America today than impeachment
I totally agree. The evil bastards still have over a year to kill us all. But the main thing is, Bush & Cheney have broken the law — and they’re getting away with it. If that isn’t addressed, the rule of law is just for shit. And when someone asks the stupid Democrats, “Why didn’t you uphold the Constitution?” the answer for history can’t be “we didn’t have time.”
For those of you who have never experienced a filibuster, “Welcome.” They ramble when they’re filibustering even more than when they’re not filibustering. Every once in a while somebody might, just might, say something truly illuminating. Or not. Tom Harkin just might…
Mrs. K8 @ 38
Ooops Another underlying crime wave
Woodhall Hollow @ 39
Maybe she remembered that bobbing weenies is illegal too :)
Impeachment is the cure.
The Republicans are the disease.
The Democrats are a PLACEBO!
OK, I was trying to ignore teh Vitter thing. When did he call ms paltry, when did ms. vitter forgive and when did they go after Clinton.
That would be an interesting timeline. I mean if the Vitter family is all about forgiving indiscretions and “we all fall short” as Tucker says, would that apply to Clinton too. Guess not.
How many times should we be calling our reps/senators? I live in IL and have called Durbin and Obama and my republican rep (Biggert) to advocate for impeachment. Is it a waste of time to call regularly?
Feingold’s update:
UPDATE: I know that many of you disagree with my approach to this issue, but I thought it was important to make it clear where I’m coming from and explain why I am not calling for impeachment.
I certainly do believe in holding this Administration accountable and upholding the Constitution and the rule of law. That’s why last year I called for the President to be censured for his authorization of the illegal wiretapping program. I thought that was the appropriate course because it would have put the Senate on record in condemning the President’s wrongdoing. I still think that the censure resolution played an important role in focusing the public and the media’s attention on the issue. And I am working to make sure that Congress finally exercises its oversight responsibility by holding hearings and demanding information about the wiretapping program, the U.S. attorney firings and other abuses of power.
Many of you also wrote that if I recognize that the President and Vice President may have committed impeachable offenses, than it is our responsibility to impeach. As I pointed out, it is the role of the House to impeach, and it is the role of the Senate to try impeachments. But the Constitution left it up to the judgment of members of Congress whether or not moving forward with impeachment is best for the country.
Please keep the comments coming. I’ll do my best to read them all. I very much appreciate your honesty and directness. This exchange is very important to me.
spurious @ 41
Study history and constitutional law. And never ever forget your roots.
sonate @ 49
Did you nick that from OKKiddo?
It’s time to tell Nancy Pelosi to do her job, IMPEACH!
LS @ 31
Darn it! This campaign must have worked!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A39J32gPxU
Y’a know, you don’t just one day decide to call a prostitute casually. There is so much more involved in something like that. It is a vice of sorts. Once you go over the line, you are over that line. Little things lead up to it. Mrs. Vitter said it best, that they are best “friends”.
What a mess. She is really hurting.
sonate @ 50
i think that needs to be on a t-shirt.
Mrs. K8 @ 38
No underlying crime?
Loo Hoo. @ 53
He’s cratering.
Over at DailyKos 1400 people have already commented on a new Senator Russ Feingold post explaining why he thinks impeachment is a bad idea. He’s been flooded with replies and has written one update. He said to keep the comments coming. I suggest everyone reading hear go to this link and add your voice.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/16/133049/958
What does “cratering” mean?
SnarKassandra @ 44
You’ve got my vote! If I’m still around…!!! *g*
SuburbanGirl @ 52
My attitude is, “let me be a thorn in their sides.” And I have two of the most delusional Senators “representing” me: McCain and Kyl.
It doesn’t take long to dial a number, wait for a reply, and then shout “IMPEACH!!!” Just a couple of minutes a day. However, you may not wish to shout into the phone, since your representation in Illinois is not 100% delusional, like mine.
Loo Hoo. @ 53
Well good for Russ. I didn’t think he would be so slow on the uptake, but this is the sort of slapping around I think all the critters need to realize that the citizens of the country actually take the whole notion of the rule of law seriously. It isn’t just an inconvenience to the political elite. Poor things, actually having to abide by all the pesky laws Congress passes. Good grief, why bother having a Congress at all?!?
SnarKassandra @ 43
I’ll vote for you, if I’m still alive! (And you haven’t converted to republican!)
SnarKassandra @ 63
2. Slang
a. To fall and crash violently from a great height.
b. To fail utterly: “talked about how tough times were in Texas since the oil business cratered” Stephen Coonts
This is interesting.
Ron Paul leads all GOP candidates in donations from military employees…BY A WIDE MARGIN.
Paul is crazy, but Iraq is about his only real issue and it says something he so far outraises other GOP candidates with the military.
spurious @ 67
I will never ever ever never turn into a repiglican.
SnarKassandra @ 64
It is a synonym of “crash and burn” or other terms involving rapid terminal contact with the ground by an airplane, which hit so hard it made a “crater.”
*xyz @ 63
Cratering as in reversing himself or cratering as in not reversing himself?
spurious @ 60
Yup, that’s what the nutcase Kyl had to say. John over at AmericaBlog has a thread up, encouraging readers to phone Kyl’s office to ask when prostitution became decriminalized and to ask if he endorses adultery (now that it’s not about Clinton).*
* The part in parentheses is my own addition to the snark.
newspaperbrat @ 72
Not reversing himself and being obtuse.
Yeah, but will the “Gang of 14″ or “Nancy Keenan Rule” be applied here by our congressional leadership… “keeping their (mythical) powder dry” for another day?
Pelosi promised that impeachment was off the table. I humbly suggest the table has been turned, run, stacked (choose your metaphor) against Congress and the American people, save the 26 or 29% who think that Preznit Commander Guy is the second coming of St. Ronnie of Aricept.
Impeachment has to start with Cheney, and move up otherwise all that happens is the enabling of the worst faction in this fascist government. Dump Cheney, and then go for Preznit Bunnypants.
Then send’em both to The Hague and good riddance to bad rubbish.
*xyz — cratering? Or listening? I think it’s a good sign when the conversation starts moving both ways.
Loo Hoo. @ 10
Great. We want to kick Vitter around longer.
John from Taos @ 47
Amen.
spurious @ 61
She was on top.
Sorry.
Very confusing. How do you forgive someone even though it may be hard if that someone says he didn’t do anything wrong?
Scarecrow @ 76
He’s not listening. He’s smart – if he were really listening he’d change his position.
And I mean that.
Come on Barney Frank – be the patriot I know you are.
My entire extended family and I are looking to you to do what you know MUST be done.
We do not agree with those who say that impeachment is a waste of time.
Impeachment has been forced upon us.
Find the moment.
Take the reins.
History has arrived.
No John left behind.
-GSD
I tried creating an account at kos about two years ago. Then I lost the password. I’ve e-mailed them for help, but never gotten a reply. Without creating a new e-mail account, how do I get out of that limbo?
Attaturk @ 71
Cognitive disconnect. But it is worth noting that Ron Paul is a Buchananlike racist. Ties to southern/western KKK-like racist hate groups.
The best thing to do is to impeach Gonzo, Cheney, and Bush for torture policy and reneging on the Geneva Convention treaties.
There was no declaration of war. There are no war powers.
A threefer. Short and sweet.
Loo Hoo. @ 10
Didn’t he admit the “sin”?
Scarecrow @ 76
Agreed.
Still and all, it’s both shocking and deeply disappointing when someone with Feingold’s track record of supporting basic Constitutional principles mouths such stupid platitudes and weaselly excuses for not doing what’s so clearly and urgently needed now to save the Republic.
Feingold:”…it is the role of the House to impeach, and it is the role of the Senate to try impeachments. But the Constitution left it up to the judgment of members of Congress whether or not moving forward with impeachment is best for the country.”
Wrong, Mr. Feingold, you and congress are employees of the US Taxpayer. WE, the employer demand that you do the will of the people. Either step up to the plate and swing the bat or get off the team.
The D.C. madam should have Vitter called to testify on her behalf since no crime was committed between her girls and himself.
Shorter Vitter: NOLA madams lie, while DC madams don’t.
ccmask @ 88
It is a “sin” for a Republican to admit to anything. Was that you with the Gravel interview link earlier? If so, thanks.
*xyz @ 29
Yep. When I saw the Moyers’ show on-line yesterday, it really gave me hope that the pro-impeachment arguments were finally moving out into the wider world from the blogosphere. I still have no faith in Dems (if ya gotta convince Russ, what will it take to herd the rest of the d*mn cats?!?). But I can’t help it — I’m still hopeful that the country will take up the gauntlet Bush and Cheney have thrown at our feet. But, we’ll have to drag the Dems kicking and screaming to do it…
The prez is out of control on many fronts. Here’s just one:
AP – The U.S. military is weighing new directions for Iraq, including an even bigger troop buildup if President Bush thinks his “surge” strategy needs a further boost, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Monday.
And speaking of impeachment. Isn’t it weird that Henry Kissinger (Nixon’s guy) is an advisor to President Bush. And Dick Cheney was an intern in the Nixon administration and Chief of staff to the man who gave Richard Nixon a pardon.
RockPaperScizzors @ 89
I love how Feingold writes a diary about how he’s opposed to impeachment, and then when people point out how flawed his arguments are, he backs away, saying that it isn’t appropriate for him as a Senator to advocate for or against impeachment.
GSD @ 83
No John’s behind left [undiapered].
Either way you look at it, Vitter is in the shitter.
1. This isn’t going away anytime soon.
2.The wife.
‘Nuff said?
Jo Fish @ 76
From the Moyers’ discussion, I think we can impeach them simultaneously. That should speed things along a bit…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 94
Small but important nit to pick. Kissinger does not advise the President. Rather he advises the Vice-President. Far more effective.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 94
Of course – and all those Iran-Contra guys, too. Just as Bernanke was selected because his thesis was about how the Great Depression could have been avoided (thus no New Deal), these guys were selected because they know how to do dirty tricks, and maybe get away with them this time.
Mrs. K8 @ 72
I wonder if he is going to claim domination fantasy, no sex. Although, that might be just as bad for the religious right.
Loo Hoo. @ 10
Awesome. Senator Albatross makes for good conversation.
OT-
Joe Wilson is now on my s**t list. He’s endorsed Hillary. I’ve always been suspicious of him since he gave Saddam Hussein the go-ahead signal to invade Kuwait, (i.e., baited the trap).
http://www.thewashingtonnote.c…..002225.php
Bustednuckles @ 99
Vitter admitted that he was guilty of the prostitution part but not the diapers..
Tucker: “We’ll be back with…there are not that many poor people left in America so there John Edwards!”
Tucker: “We’re back with 9-11 conspiracy tinfoil anti-bush left you don’t need to be crazy anti gobal side of the poor”
phuie! cut to $400…putz!
Maybe Feingold wrote his diary to see how we respond? Consider leaving a comment if you haven’t done so.
eCAHNomics @ 105
Me TOO
*xyz @ 96
Actually, I read this part incorrectly – please disregard.
ET @ 85
I tried that about then too. Got a password, but it never worked (always got a ‘page expired’ message). Couldn’t get help from the ‘technical support’ address, so I gave up. I know they were getting a lot of people signing up, but if you require an account to comment, you ought to make sure the account works.
Ed*ard Teller @ 85
i don’t know.
GordonM @ 101
Don’t forget Rove was one of the ol’ Watergate gang too. They thought about bringing charges against him, but he was too small of a fish back then. Best not to contemplate what the world would be like today if they had.
JPL @ 108
ccmask @ 87
“Sin”? What about the ‘crime’???
Inhofe is talking crazy! “I went to that little girls beadroom…..arms, legs, ears and all sorts of body parts everywhere…”
What the Hell is he talking about?!
Attaturk @ 72
Guess Bush can’t twist those figures. Hope it gets in the MSM.
Ed*ard Teller @ 85
Wouldn’t it be possible to just create a new account?
[I had trouble trying to create a Kos account about three years ago, and then just decided not to bother because a) my time is severely limited and b) I don’t want to have to figure out all the many rules over there involving ratings and mojo and “trusted user” status and all that. But not a day goes by that I don’t read something over there, and that’s been true since almost the very beginning of the blog before they went to Scoop.
I LOVE the Lake and the easy and laid-back manner of commenting, and the quality of the other commenters (like you, Edward!) and the absence of all that “troll rating” nonsense. And I also absolutely LOVE the moderators here at FDL, who make the quality of these comment threads possible and whose praises should be sung to the high heavens.]
Flyby — Video alert.
Thanks for this post, Scarecrow!
Just saw an incredibly candid report of ABC Nightly News about the exhaustion and bitterness of troops in Iraq. Apache Company…now in its 15th month of duty, was supposed to be 12. They may be rotated in Sept.
Soldier Vessell challenged the President or anybody in Congress or whoever sent them over to come and spend 15 months side by side with him. Vessell, I salute you sir.
Urge you all to check this out at ABC News or later tonight on Nightline.
Loo Hoo. @ 107
Loo Hoo, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think there is a 2 day waiting period to set up an account to leave a comment. I hit that snag a long time ago and never bothered to go back.
Ed*ard Teller @ 87
Suggest it is pretty effortless to get a different gmail a/c and user name and comment to your great heart’s content.
I have a lot of respect for Feingold, his intellect, his political sophistication, and his integrity. I going to assume he’s listening, and I’d give him a few days to think about the reaction.
I also think it’s smart for any Senator to be careful about what they say, to avoid charges of prejudging the case — Senators would, after all sit as something like jurors. And I don’t rule out the possibility, months down the road, that Senators would be challenged on this and it might become a basis for a Supreme Court challenge, which I would like to avoid. We’ve already had this court intervene to save Bush once. We are dealing with ruthless people.
Ccmask, I agree that Joe can endorse and vote for who he chooses, I just think it’s early to jump on a bandwagon and I was disappointed. He’s an important voice and can make a difference.
Mrs. K8 @ 97
Oh MrsK8, you just GSD’d GSD.
Here’s the link for the angle to take on Vitter, he should be confronted by his own words about Clinton:
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/e…..amp;coll=1
However, you guys are wrong if you think Vitter staying around helps. With him gone, we could get a Senator that might vote for removal. From here out, his poll numbers will only go up. We have to keep massive pressure on for his resignation. If he’s still in office next month he’s here for good and will probably be re-elected.
“More worrisome” that’s an understatement.
More worrisome? Lies about a BJOB versus an INTELLIGENCE SNOWJOB… that has created an enviroment for a genocide to take place. Worrisome? Where American soldiers are under such incredible pressure that they are indescriminately killing Iraqi’s. Where the tension between the Sunnis and Shiites has been unleashed (I believe the “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots fully understood this) and hundreds of thousand of Iraqi peoples are now dead and injured, millions displaced and the middle east is in chaos (Micheal Ledeens creative destructions theories in full force).
Bruce Fein has been speaking out about these policies for quite some time based on his in-depth understanding of our constitution. Thank You Bruce for your insights, expertise and commitment to our constitution.
Laurie @ 62
I’ve registered, but can’t figure out how to post. Help?
Vitter should resign.
And Inhofe should be institutionalized. He’s certifiable.
Wendy Vitter: Princess Diana wanna-be.
(OMG–the media camped out on the church doorstep!)
ccmask @ 112
Of course Wilson is entitled to his vote. And I’m entitled to disrespect him for choosing the wrong candidate.
Scarecrow @ 120
yes. i’m guessing senator feingold is surprised by the response he’s getting. and if there’s any senator who might listen to us – i think it’s him.
i encourage all firepups to leave him a comment.
Ed*ard Teller @ 85
If you haven’t commented for a while you get deleted anyway – happened to me – and you have to start again.
Boston1775 –
Thanks for noticing!
The funny thing is, while I was typing that in the comment form, I was sure that at least two other commenters would have come up with that obvious joke already….
Dick Durbin blasts McConnell and Republicans: It’s Filibuster time
Is Vitter ‘morally unfit to govern’?
If there were ever an administration who had such blantent contemp for the rule of law and the constitution it is bushco. There is more than enough to get rid of them now. Impeach, convict, remove from office!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 95
There are no more troops. We have reached the Jenna limit. There’s nobody left.
*xyz @ 96
Many moons ago, I confronted the principal, a nun, of my kids grammar school. In her condescending, arrogant, matriarchal voice, she knew what was best for my children. I looked her in the eyes, and set her straight, that I paid her salary and that she was an employee of every child in that school. Point of story, Congress must do the will of the people. If not, as the employers, we demand that they resign. I don’t need another set of parents, I need these assholes to do their jobs.
ccmask @ 88
Yes, to the DC romps,no to wearing diapers.
Scarecrow @ 121
It just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever that Senators would have to sit silent on the matter of impeachment until the point in time where they render a decision on the matter as jurors.
Senators are politicians and representatives of their constituents – they aren’t members of a jury pool going through voir dire. I’m willing to bet that there is no historical precedent for Senators being forced to hold their tongue on the matter of impeachment.
Besides, taking a position against impeachment, as Feingold has done, could just as equally be considered to be “prejudging” the case.
What this sounds like to me is a Senator trying to excuse his failure to stand up and do the right thing on impeachment.
It is weak and it is wrong.
Woodhall Hollow @ 92
Now I want photos.
janda @ 22
The correct term is ” Urinary Executive”.
spurious @ 126
I think their policy is that you have to wait 24 hours before being able to post? I think that’s what it is
Anyone? Beuhler? Anyone?
Impeachment is insufficient. These bastards must be prosecuted, preferrably at the Hague.
Here’s my problem with the calls for Impeachment. They can vote to impeach and that stoooopid fucker will NOT leave office. So just get on with some indictments!!! Arrest the dick and force bush to RESIGN. Cripes they have way enough to get some indictments right now.
If anyone can explain how voting for impeachment will force anyone to leave office, I’d like to hear it. They can’t even get 60 for a cloture vote fer goodness sake! The house couldn’t even pass a simple defund the VP vote. And instead they voted to OK another building block in the ramp up to do Iran!!
OK, so they remove these clowns, then what?
I’m FOR removal by any means necessary at this point. At the same time, we should be talking about the reality that the dems will not bring them home either! Pelosi loves her some Patreaus!!! Redeployment will not bring them home and the dems have every intention of occupying Iraq and getting the oil and protecting Israel’s expanding occupation as well. Who is going to make the impossible situation better? The fact is this can’t be made better by the current “representatives”. That’s why its called the slippery slope.
So sure, Impeach them. I say, until or unless, someone in the Washington bubble starts some indictments and arrests for all the AEI neocon crazies, top to bottom, and starts telling the horrible truth that you cannot un-slide this Mid-East Regional War slippery slope, then we are just chasing our tails.
Impeach if you want. I want indictments and arrests NOW.
Lou Costello @ 134
Nah, at least not any worse than most of his fellow rethug associates. He’s just a moral hypocrite, which makes him neither better nor worse than the rest of his morally repugnant excuse for a political party…
I’m about to make labels to stick in EVERY request for money for EVERY candidate who sends one to me. Day Glo colored labels with one word on it. IMPEACH.
Kagro X a long time ago suggested that we make up labels and stick them wherever we could, on magazines in waiting rooms, on signs, on anything that people might see. Sticking them on requests by dem candidates for money just might get their attention.
wigwam @ 143
I’m beginning to change my mind about the death penalty.
A’57 @ 140
True, that. Since Little Boots and Darth Vader and their executive minions piss on us and the Constitution every single day of their miserable sorry lives.
wigwam @ 142
But they have to be impeached first. That is our responsibility. If we don’t, they are us.
My Impeachment Song/Video from 2005
http://video.google.com/videop…..3347896811
Here’s a question on impeachment procedure.. barring a smoking gun, in the form of a coup attempt, Tiananmen Square, Nancy finding a bug in her office or presidential oral sex, do we really have enough time to complete an impeachment investigation including committee debates with rethug obstruction, trial and defense? I thought this could take upwards of two years to complete.
Not sure on that, Phred. Try it!
spurious @ 149
I agree, we have to step up.
spurious @ 149
Absolutely! By “insufficient,” I don’t mean “unnecessary.” ;-)
Blub @ 145
I do have sympathy for his wife. All through his speech she was taking those deep breaths and biting her lips the way you do when you are trying really hard not to cry
RevDeb @ 145
YES!!! I like how you think. Samizdat!
I like putting them on grocery store shelves in between the unit/price labels. And on gas pumps at the local station.
For mail we get requesting donations, we spare the stickers and instead use the beautifully useful BIG FAT SHARPIE to write “IMPEACH!!!” across the whole page, covering up the insipid text, then stuffing it back in the envelope to go out immediately.
OT just seeing Vitter and wife on Tweety. She’s wearing a leopard print dress. What is that about? Or am I missing something here?
What exactly is the process involved in beginning impeachment hearings?
Myrtle June @ 144
The advantage of impeachment is that the administration will not be able to hide behind executive privilege to withhold documents and prevent testimony. Hence impeachment will help you get the evidence you need to convict for crimes committed. I’m in favor of both, but first things first. Impeach them now. Prosecute ‘em later…
Myrtle June @ 143
The President of the United States cannot be indicted or tried for a crime. That is in the constitution.
But! According to the Constitution, the President may be impeached (ie, charged by the Congress) and tried by the Senate for High Crimes and Misdommeanors.
It is high time. Senator Feingold. And Senator Reid and Representative Conyers and Representative Pelosi.
GW Bush and Dick Cheny are both GUILTY of high crimes and misdomeaners. The only solution in our system of constitutional democracy is to bring Articles of Impeachment.
RevDeb @ 146
Good idea Rev Deb — I’ll swing by Staples on my way home…
Peach ‘im!
RevDeb @ 157
See my link at 124
RevDeb @ 157
I noticed that too. Most women would have worn something that made her look wifely and loyal. You know, pearls and no cleavage.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 158
check out
http://www.historyplace.com/un…..index.html
very brief/concise/plain English description
Eureka Springs @ 162
Preferably with rotten peaches :)
Blub @ 150
Personally, I don’t care about time constraints. The process itself will rally the country and put pressure on the next president (provided we actually HAVE an election) to keep up the investigations and pursue legal remedies (indictments).
And if I understand correctly, the impeachment process has some legal advantages — it trumps executive privilege on the evidence demanded (not that THESE thugs care, but still…) and I think there are some other things that Bush can’t do (well, legally, anyway!) while impeachment is under way.
Blub @ 166
the time is ripe
RevDeb @ 156
I noticed exactly the same thing! This is not the outfit that Hilary wore on the trek to the presidential walk to the nantucket bound helicopter in the midst of the non-criminal consensual blow-job Lewinski scandal.
Inquiring minds want to know: Where is David Vitter’s Dick?
OK, we get it.
Republicans are humans and their frailties and weaknesses are to be expected. They must be minimized and quickly forgiven.
Democrats are degenerate perverts who’s transgressions must be constantly held to public ridicule over and over and over again even decades after the transgressions.
-GSD
P.S. Israel is preparing for war, war, war.
Blub @ 152
House hearings on impeachment of Richard Nixon began May 9, 1974 and Nixon resigned August 9, 1974 or 3 months later.
*xyz @ 37
I generally trust much of what Feingold says and does. The confusing part of all of this is that Feingold voted to Impeach Clinton based on lying under oath about his extra marital activities. This is confusing and a serious inconsistency. It does not make sense. Feingold appears to be unable to consider the Bush administrations INTELLIGENCE SNOWJOB as IMPEACHABLE? Yet found Clintons lies under oath about a BJ IMPEACHABLE?
What is up with Russ. Is he looking at something we are unaware of? This does not make sense.
wigwam @ 143
Wigwam -
Which court at The Hague would have jurisdiction to try war crimes committed by United States citizens?
spurious @ 126
Scroll down and you’ll see a spot to post comments.
RevDeb @ 156
Her (fashion) taste is all in her mouth? She likes tacky clothes?
But I see your point. Is she sending a message? If so, what is it? “I’ll rip your throat out, you bastard”?
WTF is the Cornyn amendment??? Anyone???
Blub @ 165
I’ve read that and thanks. I suppose what I was actually getting at is if the Speaker can say that impeachment is ‘off the table’, then if the Speaker has a change of mind, then how much weight does that change of mind carry? ;0)
wigwam @ 143
Yup.
Fern @ 155
Do you know anything about his wife? If not, how to you know her dalliances aren’t as spicey as his?
Loo Hoo. @ 174
I could not find the comments section either and I am registered. I will go back and look again
Woodhall Hollow @ 160
The President of the United States cannot be indicted or tried for a crime. That is in the constitution.
Wood Hollow — The United States is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, which Bush has clearly violated. International treaties are binding laws. So, can Bush be prosecuted for violations of the Geneva Conventions? If not within the United States, then by another country? I was under the impression that that was possible, but perhaps I am mistaken.
Blub @ 151
Impeachment hearings for Clinton were begun In November 1998 right after the mid-term elections. The House voted impeachment in Decmeber 1998. The Senate held its trial in January 1999, and voted acquittal in early February 1999. The whole thing lasted roughly three months.
I was really impressed with this segment of Bill’s program on Friday, and especially comments from Mr. Fein.
Hugh @ 171
true, but this isn’t going to work with shrub. He’ll fight to the bitter end, and then probably refuse to leave, requiring intervention of the Supreme Court (and perhaps the army too?.. only half kidding here). There is no rethug Barry Goldwater with the moral character to tell him this is over, and have him believe it. Impeachment will go to the bitter end with these thugs. “for the good of the country” doesn’t register with shrubco.
RevDeb @ 146
Good idea. I sent that note a request from the DNC today.
GSD @ 170
That’s cuz when a democrat does it it’s a crime and when a republican does it, its a sin. And God is conveniently forgiving.
GSD @ 169
Shorter version: Lieberman (L-J) is preparing for eternal War, along with James Dobson.
Loo Hoo. @ 173
It takes about 2 seconds and is worth the email effort.
RevDeb @ 157
Am I the only one who remembers Hillary, Bill and Chelsea out on a sailboat off of Martha’s Vineyard. She was furious. Chelsea was… well, their kid. And we were forced into their private lives.
No leopard dress.
No victimhood.
Sorry, impeachment is not the cure. Forget about the laws they broke. Just look at all of God’s Commandments that have been broken. They need to be brought to trial for their War Crimes. Appropriate punishment should follow any guilty verdicts.
Apparently, Feingold does not *yet* understand the finer points of our marvelous constitution: has he seen Moyers’ tour de force?
Come on, Russ, get educated!
It’s very scarey that the people in congress seem to know so little about the constitution and what it really means. Worse they seem to have not bothered to even read the bits most of us have read/learned.
Moyers is a national treasure. Especially the common man aw shucks touches are so helfpful in making this whole discussion easy to follow!
eCAHNomics @ 179
I know nothing about her. Just that she looks like someone who has been deeply and humiliatingly betrayed.
RevDeb @ 157
Oh…I’m sorry, I thought that was the ‘woman in question’ with whom he has spent money & time upon.
@ 183
at least his allegiance is to the Constitution, not the Republican Party
eCAHNomics @ 104
Are you sure you aren’t confusing Ambassador Wilson with Ambassador April Glaspie?
SnarKassandra @ 44
Cassie, I remember a Democratic convention where there was a large noisy contingent trying to nominate JFK for Pres, even though he was too young? Time flies….
character first @ 188
OKBill Moyers.
CTuttle @ 175
Nobody Knows? Reid agreed to accept it without debate on the floor of the Senate!
Hugh @ 171
And Nixon was stonewalling all the way.
Moyers and co. also made the point that impeachment CAN be a civilized process: the impeachee CAN take the lesson, correct their behaviour, and move on! Not that that will happen in this case but it’s really up to bushco.
Oh and it’s very clear that there is no getting out of Iraq and endless war without impeachment.
Elliott @ 195
Precisely – he had that understanding, as it should be.
Wow.
1500 comments for Feingold, and still going strong. That has to be a record.
Are the senators folding, or are they still on for the all-night gig? I was outside.
wigwam @ 182
Again, I don’t think this will work with shrub. He’s going to fight it to the bitter end, and then probably still claim that, because it’s wartime or because he talks to god, or whatever, that he’s not going to leave. I do agree that impeaching him in the House is probably a good symbolic gesture, well worth considering, but actually using impeachment to remove him from office will be difficult, I think. We are speaking of degenerates here, who are not prepared to act in the “interests of the country” when it comes to the long march to the bitter end. As they’ve already demonstrated, they’d happily see the constitution burn on the bonfire of their personal vanities.
Okay at Kos you have to click expand first.
The president is fond of saying he does not respond to public pressure. I hope the Speaker does not feel the same way.
Ed*ard Teller @ 196
Right you are. My confusion results from having heard Wilson defend what Glaspie said as “standard diplomatic speak” or words to that effect. Ever since then, I’ve blamed him as much as her. Thanks for the correction.
CTuttle @ 176 – The Cornyn amendment is an amendment the Republicans want voted on in tandem with the Levin/Reed amendment. I don’t know its details, but I do know that it’s a ‘Sense of the Senate’ nonbinding measure. [Btw, Harry Reid apparently just propounded some procedural business in the Senate, but I missed his statement(s) - don’t know if it related to the filibuster situation or not, but your #199 makes it sound like it did. Have the Republicans backed down from their demand for 60 votes on both Levin/Reed and Cornyn already??]
Fern @ 164
Don’t you know? She’s read the Christlamofascist’s “Guide to Keeping Your Husband at Home” after he strays… It recommends that a good wife “dress to impress” his wandering (in the case of Vitter …shriveled dried-out member.)
Boston1775 @ 190
According to Wendy (wanna-be Diana) the crime is not her husband’s straying dick (even though she criticized Hilary for not wielding a Bobbit-knife), it is the on the part of the media, for camping out (gasp!) on a church doorstep!
One wonders: is it appropriate for a good Christian wife to wear a leopard print outfit to church?
What way you Rev Deb and Peterr? (snark)
To be clear, I favor impeachment. I just want to know how difficult it will be to get the Dem leadership to commit to beginning a process that’ll likely become a dead-letter, by virtue of the end of shrub’s term, before it results in shrub’s actual eviction from the WH. If we can get them to start it, in the House, I’m all for it.
CTuttle @ 199
I don’t know.
Blub @ 184
Fair enough, but we still have plenty of time to beat down the lawless thugs. If we don’t defend the Constitution now, then when? How far down the path to tyranny must we go before we say, here, here is where it stops? The time has come. Either we fight to preserve the Constitution now or we let the precedent stand for all future Presidents to wield unchecked power. I can’t think of a better way to spend the next 18 months than defending the document so many people before us have died for.
Ed*ard Teller @ 202
Good Question! I’m trying to decipher Reid’s motions on the floor that just transpired!!!
Ed*ard Teller @ 204
By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
1 minute ago
WASHINGTON – The Senate this week will pull its first all-night debate on the Iraq war in advance of a vote on whether to bring home all combat troops by next spring, Democrats said Monday.
Ed*ard Teller @ 203
Haven’t heard anything either way, but then I’m listening to MSNBC. I’d rather be listening to you ET! Beautiful.
1,579 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen oklahoma kiddo and the Firepup Patriots:
“What exactly is the process involved in beginning impeachment hearings?”
Conyers can call for the hearings to begin but I think the Speaker of the House has to put any bill that comes out of the committee on the schedule…I think that the explicit and practical political powers of the Speaker can keep a Bill of impeachment from hitting the floor but I don’t think Conyers is gunna get the okie doke to hold hearings unless Pelosi ken count the votes on the floor.
The way the Democrats ken be forced ta impeach the bastards (plural) is for millions of folks to take to the streets all across the nation this summer in well organized and targeted demonstrations and at least one day of national strike. This ken be coordinated and organized through the blogosphere and national organizations such as Move On and Democracy Now…I guaran-fuckintee you that if we get folks empowered ta hit the streets, this government will come down in weeks.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE BASTARDS AREN’T GUNNA GO VOLUNTARILY!!!
pow wow @ 208
Thanx for the Cornyn info, I’m perplexed as to what just transpired, however, Reed is speaking now!!!
Per the Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…..risdiction :
Everyone is remembering that Keith is doing Tillman tonight, bigtime.
dakine01 @ 200
The polls reflect that the American people have less confidence in congress than the Bush administration. Ouch
If the thread of faith in this Democracy is not strenghtened by starting Impeachment proceedings, this thread could snap.
Snap..
thanks scarecrow for another fine post……….
but i have a bit of a grudge about it……
why did it take so long for people to listen to him???????????
i keep wondering, has anyone taken the time to listen to bill moyer’s other shows???????????
he’s been on a while……..
i kept posting about them, but gave up……..
and harry shearer.com……..he has never let up on beating the katrina drum………this past week’s show wasn’t the usual pit bull, but the others sure are……please listen to him…is posted on sunday nights….is a physical relief to hear what he says on international radio….he is always completely on top of the most recent news, never behind the eight ball….spits it out in a succinct and hilarious manner………
so, sayin’ good on ‘ya for finally finding bill moyers-now listen to my tip about harry shearer…….
and i’m gonna cuss here, so cover your ears……all of these republican f*cks make me sick…..either step forward and defend the rights written in the constitution, or claim to be the traitors you are……one or the other……….fillibuster, c’mon, bring it/////s
and i’m pissed because i only get pbs on my tv, and the solar flares are active right now, so i have no signal……..i am pissed……..no lehrer report……..
and i came to fdl right around the time i no longer had cspan……….i was an addict from 1982………no cable now………and no satellite……..i depend on you all for it……..and in times when people start turning on each other, when it turned into personality assasination, (wilson) i weep for this site……..we are a news source, and a community, let’s keep that part going, the rest i can do without…….it’s a shitty thing, we all have a part to play, so play it, and share it, and learn from it……..
Loo Hoo. @ 205
Thanks
eCAHNomics @ 208
interesting. I can see him standing up for a colleague, but I was unaware that he had defended her statement, or one of the versions of the statements she’s attributed to having made. At the time, having read her statement to Saddam, as published in the U.S. media –
But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. I was in the American Embassy in Kuwait during the late ’60s. The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America. James Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction. We hope you can solve this problem using any suitable methods via Klibi [Chadli Klibi, Secretary General of the Arab League] or via President Mubarak. All that we hope is that these issues are solved quickly. -
I regarded that act as being one of the main reasons Saddam invaded Kuwait. I hold her, her boss James Baker, and the first president Bush, every bit as much as Saddam, responsible for the start of this seventeen-year nightmare.
Can’t we just skip impeachment and go right to the war-crimes trials?
eCAHNomics @ 207
When Saddam threatened to “execute” those who sheltered “foreign spies” Joe Wilson held a press conference with a noose around is neck (instead of a tie) and told Saddam to get f*cked. He was willing to literally stick his neck out to protect US citizens (and others) who had the misfortune to be caught in the cross-fire.
Joe Wilson had nothing to do with April Gallaspie’s mealymouthed incompetance. He was there when she was long gone and had to clean up the mess, as best he could.
Loo Hoo. @ 221
GAWD! I LOVE TiVO! I’ve had to depend upon my own memory OR the cats – and neither was working. Goddamned cats.
Loo Hoo. @ 217
Thank you very much. {{{LooHoo}}}
Loo Hoo. @ 220
In a preview, KO mentioned Inherent Contempt for Ms. Meirs!!! *g*
and i have been unable to keep up with the comments today, busy day, terribly epu’d(hi epu, left you a love letter the last thread)……..
so, sorry if i was late in my comments……..
back to catching up……..
Oklahoma kiddo @ 216
Maybe they will pull out the Ouija board or the eight ball in regard to Iraq. Just like other folks do during all nighters!
NorskeFlamethrower @ 217… 4:22pm
Thanks. ;0)
Loo Hoo. @ 221
Loo Hoo,
Hardball is doing Hot for Hill.
Not one mention of Pat Tillman. Not one mention of the claim of executive privilege to protect, what?
dmac –
I love your passion! Sorry to hear your means of getting PBS have been decimated, but I know that there are bits of things available online, sometimes even whole programs, although that’s a disappointing substitute, I’m sure.
Just want to mention that I’ve been watching Bill Moyers for years and discovered Harry Shearer on the radio many years ago, but I thank you for the tip about his website. I had been reading his stuff on Huffington, but it’s better to go straight to the horse’s mouth, thus giving him more hits on his site.
kathleen @ 231
;0)
Boston1775 @ 234
Nothing I’ve heard about the filibuster either. Tweety has a Hillary problem.
Woodhall Hollow @ 197
… terminating italics, I hope.
kathleen @ 231
Is it really George Bush in the Oval Office with the Eight Ball?
Norske, sweet!
It’s very good to see you here at the same time I’m around — now that I have a part-time job, I get here even less often than before.
Hope all is well with you, my dear firebrand!
[Going off now to do p.t. in the pool. Be back later.]
Re Joe Wilson, he is free to back any candidate he wishes. I remember one time here he spoke well of Chuck Hagel. Hagel except for speaking out against Iraq is conservative as hell so I can’t say I am surprised that Wilson would support Hillary the most DINO of the DINOs in the race. Doesn’t mean I’m going to rethink my view of Hillary. She was one of the last of the Democrats to abandon support for Bush’s Iraq policy. Her response to those of us looking for an apology for such a pigheaded position was a big FU. Peter Daou may work for her but Hillary still had no idea what engaging the blogosphere means. She only comes to the netroots when she wants something. I can live without that kind of slumming.
Youkillednoodle @ 225
No can do! Shrub would stonewall all pertinent evidence, and, DoJ wouldn’t be inclined to investigate, much less, prosecute!!!
dmac — all of Moyer’s shows are treasures. I’m glad he has a regular show, even though they’ve tried to hide it on Friday mights. They do repeat, though.
ls at 31 says-”Vitter’s wife said they would “work” together for their family. That says it all. He’s “cut off”.”
yep
Hugh @ 240
;0)
Boston1775 @ 233
What a twinky Chris Matthews is. His smarminess with respect to the Hot for Hill girl likes like pedophilia.
Youkillednoodle @ 226
Truth telling will get you everywhere with FDL and the International community but absolutely no where with the Bush administration
I love seeing a West Point Grad talking truth to power! Go, Jack Reed, Go!!!
kathleen @ 224
I hit expand and then get all the comments, but no comment section.
Jeralyn has a new thread ready. Great discussion folks.
Merrily I say unto you, there is a new thread.
New Thread
FYI, new thread
Wouldn’t it be nice to wake up one morning confident of the fact that someone with the character of Bill Moyers was in the Oval Office. I’m such a dreamer. And an incurable romantic.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 253
I bet you watched West Wing when it was on TV.
Ed*ard Teller @ 225
Yep, that’s the statement in question. I’ll try to remember where & when I heard Wilson defend her, but I doubt I’ll be able to recall it.
Meanwhile Woodhall Hollow @227 cites Wilson’s upstanding behavior in the moment, which is consistent with his behavior wrt Niger yellow cake & his wife’s outing. So maybe my beef with him is with his judgement, not his actions.
((((mrs. k8))))
Oklahoma kiddo @ 253
That might mean you died and went to heaven!
Vitter’s wife will not do the “Bobbit” cure but she will change his diapers.
RevDeb @ 146
This is great!! I’ll join you in this effort! :-)
RockPaperScizzors @ 90
Well said … I hope you added this to the comments.
The Dems’ are concerned that, if they spend all that time with impeachment and it does not end in charges and removal from ofice due to the Repugs’, the Dems will be roasted for wasting all that time and not getting the important work done in Congress.
IMO, the Rep congresscritters have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the impeachment table and growing pressure maintained to see this through … there has to be overwhelming votes for removal from office or the Repugs win the next election.
woodhollow at 210 says”According to Wendy (wanna-be Diana) the crime is not her husband’s straying dick (even though she criticized Hilary for not wielding a Bobbit-knife), it is the on the part of the media, for camping out (gasp!) on a church doorstep!
One wonders: is it appropriate for a good Christian wife to wear a leopard print outfit to church?
What way you Rev Deb and Peterr? (snark)”
wouldn’t make it at the methodist, real methodist church, would be somewhat of a siren/divorcee kind of thing…….but at a baptist church, totally ok……..
Oklahoma kiddo @ 244
Who is this youngster Matt on Tweety’s who works for the Weekly Standard? He seems healthy and is certainly age-eligible for service.
TeddySanFran @ 263
I saw that. ;0)
Joe Wilson has a comprehensive discussion of April Glaspie’s meeting with Saddam in his own book.
Matthews makes the observation on “Hardball”, in response to one of his guests that if there was a military draft, you’d see multitudes in the streets demonstrating against our presence in Iraq. Every once in a while, Matthews ripples.
and…
Thank you both!
So they can still arrest Cheney on down, no problem which should begin immediatly. And, since impeachment is what’s necessary, start to impeach bush now, and arrest later.
Hubris Sonic over at the Group News Blog worked out a timeline on July 7th. Thought it could be accomplished, with removal, in 124 days. November! Let’s get started!
And, just to be clear from here on out, I intend to refer to the Iraq war as “The Bush/Cheney War” so there’s no confusion during and after their removal from office.
Pelosi needs to revise her table top! Nan, the peaches are in the mail!
Just sent this email to all my reps and senators plus their leaders. Since it was this post that got me fired up, I thought I would share:
I have been sitting on the fence regarding impeachment of President Bush and VP Cheney for quite some time, feeling that such a process would be disruptive to other important government goals. I have changed my mind and impeachmnet proceeding against Bush and Cheney should occur as quickly as possible!
After viewing the Bob Moyer show on impeachment on PBS, I believe that it is critical to begin impeachment proceedings immediately against the Bush and Cheney. I have a number of reasons for this:
1) Impeachment is a valid tool developed by our founding fathers to rein in excessive behavior beyond that permitted in the constitution by the executive branch. As the Moyers program pointed out, it is a tool that can be used to avoid a constitutional crisis. It also ensure that the illegal powers Bush is seizing will not be available to future presidents be they democratic, republican, independent or fascist.
2) While unfortunately the impeachment process of Bill Clinton was primarily political with no constitutional relevance, proceedings against Bush and Cheney are essential to maintain the checks and balances that we have enjoyed for over 200 years in our constitution. The shame, sleze and circus like atmosphere of the Clinton impeachment should in no way influence the decision to proceed against the current executive.
3)While it would be nice to win, the process involves a very public discussion of what has happened and what will happen if they continue in the abuse of the constitution. I don’t think there is a need to count votes here, this is not partisan. This is really fascism vs democracy. Even if these guys are not impeached my hope is they will be pulled back!
4) I am very concerned that the current executive may do something very irrational between now and 2009 including: attach Iran, false flag attacks on our soil (as they are currently warning of), imposition of martial law, actual implementation of widespread suspension of habeas corpus, further mismanagement and escalation of the Iraq war and further efforts to consolidate unconstitutional powers in the executive office. My hope is that vigorous impeachment proceedings will tie up this administration so that they can do more damage.
It will also serve to ensure there is the greatest scrutiny on everything they do. I urge you to move quickly toward setting the mechanisms in place to start impeachment proceedings.
Infinity One
RevDeb @ 157
Err… she’s saying “You want a hooker, I’ll be your hooker, honey”. She’s basically taking the blame for not being hookery enough…. after all, it could never be HIS fault.
In Scarecrow’s prior column, we find this passage:
This is exactly why the Republican Congresscritters will never back impeachment. Much to their sorrow, come 2008.
What their base wants is diametically opposed to what the rest of us want.
This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push for impeachment. But we mustn’t take it too hard if it doesn’t happen, because pushing it and then watching them run from it will be like allowing them to filibuster: Letting them shoot themselves in the feet, over and over again, until November of 2008.
Infinity One @ 268
It is Bill Moyers, not Bob, Infinity One.
Hillary don’t save medics until Libya coughs up $$$
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c…..inton.html
271 comments so far and not one mention of the guy who introduced the impeachment bill, Dennis Kucinich. Why is the one guy who consistently calls for getting out of Iraq, single payer and vp impeachment given so little support from the so-called left? Really. What is w/ you people? Are you all star struck? Has the msm already decided for you what choices are permissible? I have come to the conclusion that the reason there is so little progress in ‘progressive’ is that the followers are just as cowardly as their leaders.
kathleen @ 272
This is disquieting.
Scarecrow @ 121
I also have great respect for Feingold. And the fact that he is reluctant —arguably the most liberally-disposed senator we have—does not bode well for the second, senate-based portion of impeachment.
That said, I believe there is still benefit to at least impeachment in the House–in successfully passing the articles of impeachment out of the house.
john in california @ 273
John, point taken. Kucinich is way out in front, again. But the number of co-sponsors on HR 333, last time I looked was still tiny. The bill ain’t moving. Still, discussions like this one at FDL, the Moyers program, and other venues adds pressure and may add co-sponsors and movement on K.’s bill.
i am very late to this
party — but my 1:56 video
does contain a well-distilled
essence of this fantastic dialogue,
including the “impeachment is the
cure” quote, and archival footage
intertwined, over the talking heads’
audio — for greater visual interest.
it was the “nightly nolo” for july 14, 2007.
p e a c e
Myrtle June @ 269
oh, you are *absolutely* right! that is so sad. what kind of pressure must she be under to support this farce.
they are not “essentially{, they are “deliberately”
and why?
because they know the supreme court will rule in their behalf and thus etching in stone their unitary philosophy which will hold for a generation and probably two generations
this is why the congress and senate must act in unison
congress must deal with republicans and they must form a pact
after that pact they must say;
“this is not going to the supreme court where you have a win win situation;
if the supreme court comes down against your administration you will still defy congress, if they come down in behalf of the administration you will feel justified in defying congress
we therefore allow no supreme court decision, you comply or you are impeached, we will vote impeachment and we will rest in the senate without even presenting a case where you will be impeached in a summary judgement immediately”
that my friends is the only thing we can do, we CANNOT allow this a supreme court challenge
What concerns me the most about impeachment is not whether or not it is the right thing to do, but rather the overall situation in the country right now. Like it or not, we have troops in a foreign country, under fire.
The president is fond of declaring to everyone that he is the “commander-in-chief.” What will happen to our armed forces if we move forward with removing the president and vice-president from office. It’s like we’re cutting the head off the serpent. What will happen to the body? People lower down the military totem pole can’t act in a vacuum. They need direction from the top.
Likewise, Congress’s most urgent mission is to get the troops out of Iraq. What happens to that goal if we are tied up in impeachment proceedings. Government will grind to a complete halt while that happens, similar to 1998.
lou costello at comment 6 above identified the right move: The 21 members of the Judiciary Committee (chared by Rep. Conyers) is the group that has to move first. I’m not sure what HR 333 by Kucinich says. I’d be concerned that Kucinich’s bill (like the Youtube clip for impeachment of Cheney) is too vague ( “abuse of power”) and generalized in the sense of not referring to any specific crime in the US Code.
To get the country, the rest of the House and the Senate behind it, a bill of impeachment against these two needs to spell chapter and verse of specific existing crimes they have probably violated. Like warrantless eavesdropping in violation of FISA, ordering underlings to commit torture and violate the Geneva Convention, ordering US attorneys to intimidate voters, and, as of last week,, ordering Miers and Taylor to commit contempt of Congress.
There’s probable cause to impeach right now. Then for the trial in the Senate, the House prosecutors subpoena Rove, Miers, Alberto, Taylor, Yoo, Fielding and the rest and dare them not to show up or invoke “executive privilege.” Conduct the trial asking questions of empty chairs, if necessary. Game, set, match.
I agree wholeheartedly with this blog article. The Bill Moyers show was a very powerful presentation. It is certainly one that needs to be given more attention than what it has gotten so far. I know it convinced us that in order to protect the Constitution we MUST impeach both Bush & Cheney – NO QUESTION.
I can’t afford to send a copy of the DVD of the Moyers show to every member of Congress as I’d like to do. Perhaps we can all donate money on this website to get enough money together to do so? All we need to do is get the money and then order them from the Moyers site. We can provide them with the name of each Congressional Rep. and let the Moyers people mail them just like they would if they were sending them to the public. Any money left over could be used by Firedoglake to cover expenses of the blog.
If we can’t do something like that here, I hope everyone will at least send copies of the transcript to as many members of Congress as they can. Who knows maybe we will actually get a few members who will read the transcript and act.
After we watched the Moyers show I sent an email to the Olberman show asking them to have Fein & Nichols on Keith’s show. Bruce Fein was all over the cable shows during the Clinton impeachment. I think he needs to make the rounds again! I hope the rest of you will also email the cable shows asking them to have these guys on as guests.
impeachment is not a cure its remedy. There will surely be new bushes in the future. We are currently awash in them. Not only bush and cheney require impeachment, but also Gonzales and while we’re at it, Scalia, Thomas, and Kennedy for their little one-off stunt in 2000 that enable this whole reign of horror to occur.
Because impeachment is a remedy, and because its never been used for its intended purpose, and because letting the criminals of the bush regime off scott free would FOREVER soil America, it is imperative that impeachment and removal be invoked and applied for their intended purpose – to protect the American people from criminals in the government. The bush regime crimes are exactly what impeachment was placed in the Constitution for.
.
MLK quote cited by Arthur Silbur at http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/
fewer and fewer defenders of the first two categories here, and 1400 comments at the Orange Borg!
their rationales are crumbling, soon we will see whether the (D) party really wants to restore this country to a functional Constitutional Republic, or whether they are bought off by a few peices of silver and threats of blackmail, or or too far under the sway of the wishes of the government of a country other than the USA.
Pelosi could be acclaimed through history for doing the right thing, and get to be the first female President, even a few months ahead of the dreadful harridan Hillary Clinton, or she will be a footnote for scholars studying the demise of the US of A, the obscure answer to the question “was there anyone who could have stopped Bush/Cheney before the use of nuclear weapons against the people of Iran?”
see also http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07162007.html
for an added note of urgency.
while Harry Reid’s parlaimentary pawn gambit is a laudable gesture, Cheny might just be about to release some giant uruk hai he has been brewing down in the sub-basement, and then these feints signifying boldness and defiance will be rather insufficient.
Impeachment: An Apology the World Will No Doubt Understand
by Doug Soderstrom, Ph.D.
Published on Friday, May 12, 2006
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0512-28.htm
Does adding a voice for impeachment here “count”, too? I can never remember how to comment on KOS: anything that requires a process more complicated than typing my own legal name and address is too complicated!
spurious @ 126
Have you figured it out yet? I’ve been out all evening. You do have to wait 24 hours if you just registered. If you’re OK in that regard, you should be able to post a comment by clicking on the “post comment” command right at the bottom of the diary itself. Hope this helps.
how about this idea. like a cop who follows you to see how fast you’re going go, let the bums finish out their time and let’s see how bad they get. in the longer run, it’ll just weed out more cronies and make the administration and the republicans look like a bunch of fools. I say, let this run it’s course and watch all the good that’ll eventually come out of this mess!
Bay State Librul @ 49
Maybe Vitter was the “underlying” one?
But maybe Kyl thinks that the only thing that happened was a little “Pampering”!
Phoenix Woman @ 270
Ok, so it’s the next day and I doubt you’ll come back to this thread and see this, but I’ll give it a go anyway…
Not even Rethugs get re-elected with 28% of the vote. Do not confuse “the base” with a sufficient majority of voters to win. Rethugs like their jobs, they’ll bend. Heck, they’re bending now on Iraq. Begin impeachment and watch their house of cards collapse.
john in california @ 273
We don’t need to talk about Kucinich because he already favors impeachment (of Cheney). It’s everyone else we need to get on board — and we need Bush’s name added to the articles Kucinich has against Cheney. Impeach them both simultaneously.