There seems to be a big problem with the denizens of the Beltway, both in the political and media fields, in confusing process with intent. That is, to judge by their actions, there is this apparent perception that because the American people disagreed with the use of a process in the past, that they will always disagree with its use, regardless of intent -- even though history shows repeatedly that this is not the case.
For example: Americans are not and have never been against the process of impeachment itself. What they oppose is its misuse by persons with bad intentions. Americans approved of impeaching Nixon, disapproved of impeaching Clinton, and approve of impeaching Bush and Cheney. In the case of Clinton, they didn't see him as having done anything that rated impeachment, much less removal. In the cases of Nixon, Bush and Cheney, they clearly saw and see them each as richly deserving of both impeachment and removal.
For another example: Americans are not and have never been against the filibuster itself. What they oppose is its misuse by persons with bad intentions. Currently, they are very angry that good legislation isn't being passed, but when the Democrats cave at the prospect of a Republican filibuster, it is the Democrats -- not the Republicans -- that get blamed for not passing the legislation.
The solution, of course, is to let the Republicans make it crystal-clear, with their filibusters and their vetoes and their sustaining of their vetoes, that they oppose tooth and nail the very legislation -- on health care, finances, Iraq and pretty much everything else -- that the American people most want.
Yes, the Republicans and their media minions will of course accuse the Democrats of wasting everyone's time, even though it's the Republicans who are holding up the legislation that the people most want. The simple truth is that the Republicans wasted most of the previous session of Congress; even with GOP obstructionism running rampant, the new Democratic-run Senate alone has already had 247 votes in less than six months. By contrast, when Republicans ran the Senate, there were 279 in all of the last year. In addition, in 2006 the old Republican-run Senate was only in session for 138 days, a post-war record low. Already this year, the Senate under Democratic control has been in session for 106 days. That's pretty darned good, but it'd be even better if Harry Reid and Company had made it clear from the beginning that they weren't going to save the Republicans from making fools of themselves.
As Chris Bowers said, "call your Democratic Senators and tell them you want to see Republicans actually filibuster if they want to stop our popular legislation. Cloture votes are simply not enough. Make Republicans stand in the well of the Senate and give every fiber of their beings to support their unpopular causes."
Call your Democratic Senators. Tell them it is time for Republicans to be exposed -- or rather, to be forced to either expose themselves as against the people, or to back the people's agenda. It's time to play hardball. Yes, Harry Reid's already announced today that he intends to do just that. But let's hold him to that!
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Phoenix Woman!
Impeach!
PW!!!!
Impeach ‘em both for the sake of the future of our country! But for the sake of me? I can’t say it here on FDL, cause I respect you guys too much to drag y’all into fantasies with pitchforks an’ burning torches!
Thanks for the responses on attire, Christy and Jeralyn. I’m so excited, I might start packing tonight!
Now to read PW.
Tillman!!!!
Impeach!!!!
Torture!!
Impeach!!!
4th Branch!!!
Impeach!!!
Telling lies on purpose that got us into an occupation that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and probably millions of wounded.
Impeach!!!
Defying Congress!!!
Impeach!!!
Obstructing Justice!!!
Impeach!!!
Loo Hoo. @ 6
Shhhh….don’t forget pajamas and cheetos :)
Y’all inspired me. Especially Snarkassandra! So i’ve been writing a little ol’ blog. Here’s my humble bit:
http://www.c4cd6.org/?q=node/63
well, I added this downstairs a few flights but it’s very approprate here[
they are not “essentially{, they are “deliberately”
and why?
because they know the supreme court will rule in their behalf and thus etching in stone their unitary philosophy which will hold for a generation and probably two generations
this is why the congress and senate must act in unison
congress must deal with republicans and they must form a pact
after that pact they must say;
“this is not going to the supreme court where you have a win win situation;
if the supreme court comes down against your administration you will still defy congress, if they come down in behalf of the administration you will feel justified in defying congress
we therefore allow no supreme court decision, you comply or you are impeached, we will vote impeachment and we will rest in the senate without even presenting a case where you will be impeached in a summary judgement immediately”
that my friends is the only thing we can do, we CANNOT allow this a supreme court challenge
Senator Feingold’s stance on Impeachment efforts for Bush/Cheney is so confusing. Feingold supported Clintons Impeachment based on Clintons lies under oath about his BJOB. Feingold is not in support of IMPEACHMENT BASED ON AN INTELLIGENCE SNOWJOB carried out by the Bush admininstration that has resulted in disaster. Add to that a growing list of crimes that has created a “constitutional crisis”.
I really do not understand this serious discrepancy in Feingold’s thinking.
There is good reason why the Congress has a lower approval rating than Shrub!!! Duhh…!!!
Gawd, can somebody quote Tucker on Clinton and Lewinsky?
Tucker, you Protesteth too much!!! Hmmmmmmmmm.
The Tillman’s are shining examples of what true patriots are.
conniptionfit @ 5
Bring on the pitchforks and burning torches…metaphorically, of course!
UFO’s again. Well, well, well…they must be desperate to resort to that.
Actually, to tell a little personal story, my mother-in-law lives in Roswell. My sister-in-law’s good friend from Roswell told us that her father saw…I repeat…saw…I repeat…saw…the “little” people…recovered in the Roswell incident. No sh#t.
LS @ 14
F*cker is only being his putrid self!!! Even Abrams was annoyed by his responses! C’mon Abrams, Shuster would boost MSNBC’s daily ratings so much more than F*cker could ever do in a year!!!
I hate this war - all seventeen fucking years of it! IMPEACH!!
Ed*ard Teller @ 19
You nailed it!!!
Ed*ard Teller @ 19
wait,honey,what?
LS @ 9
check!
IMPEACH labels .pdf file uploaded on my web site on “fun files” page. Print them out on fluorescent labels and affix them to any and all requests for funds from candidates, from the DNC , the DSCC and the DCCC.
I’ve been throwing out so many of the appeals for money over the past few months. Now I will put IMPEACH labels on the return cards and send them back without a check. Let’s see if they get the message.
And it’s in BLUE ink just to remind them.
RevDeb @ 23
Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee!
What are the Democrats in Congress so worried about impeachment for? It didn’t do the Republicans any harm at all - and most people, as you say, didn’t even think Clinton deserved it.
Let’s get Bush up there and have him pull some Gonzo testimony and see how the American people like that. If he’s aquitted by the cadre of corrupt Republicans, it won’t matter much because he’ll be pretty close to the end of his term anyway.
conniptionfit @ 10
Congratulations, conniptionfit! Good job.
Part of the problem is that the campaign-industrial complex is a very conservative culture, and doesn’t want to make waves. Consultants and public relations firms have no interest whatsoever in having politicians and their staffs engage in the serious and demanding work of investigation and prosecution. They simply can’t make any money out of it.
The Clinton impeachment was a type of political “perfect storm” where the consultants and PR firms figured out how to make money, and pushed very hard to get their clients to jump in.
My (rather cynical) $0.02 on why Grandma Nancy and co. are reluctant to push.
On the impeachement of Cheney issue, Anna Eshoo Democrat of the 14th district of California is against any impeachment proceedings, claiming that it would bring a halt to all of the progress being made to undo the damage done by one party rule. From the reply:
“On the subject of impeachment, I’ve lived through the
impeachment process and witnessed firsthand how it tears the
country apart. I think it’s time to bring the country together. We
have to move forward and impeachment, in my view, will heavily
distract from the critical work of reversing the disastrous policies
of this Administration and will bring to a halt progress being made
on important issues including ending the war, healthcare, global
warming, and our nation’s economic competitiveness.
Since the start of this new Congress, the House has held hundreds
of oversight hearings covering the war in Iraq, the response to
Hurricane Katrina, the firing of United States Attorneys, and the
treatment of our veterans at Walter Reed. And there’s so much
more to do. We either grind to a halt, or move forward.”
Good evening dear friends.
The congress and Reid showed more spine today than they have been, and that’s a move in the right direction. Not enough of a spine, but better.
conniptionfit @ 24
click my name which links to web site. top tab that says “fun files” Download it and you’ve got it already formatted.
Kathleen, are you sure Feingold supported impeachment of Clinton? Cuz if so, it really worries me. Not so much about Feingold, but about the half that Nancy said we don’t even know.
Loo Hoo. @ 26
Well done!!
Impeachment:
In your heart,you know it’s right.
TexB @ 29
Ian had a great post, I think on Saturday that suggested just this type of thing.
citizen spot @ 28
There is no progress being made. Everything the dems try to do to correct the problems gets shot down either by the repigs or it is vetoed. There will be no progress made by this administration. Their mission is to amass power and take it from the people. We need to take it back.
Impeachment starts with Gonzo. Otherwise, a ton of evidence will be supressed, subpeonas won’t be enforced, justice will be obstructed. He’s a wall that has to come down.
GeorgeSimian @ 36
yes indeed
Holding Harry Reid to his intentions is an excellent idea!
Somehow I wonder if the DeeCee Dems just wish the blogosperites would stop bothering them. In case Reid’s announcement today is part of that, we must keep the pressure on.
Here’s today’s email to Senators Feinstein and Boxer:
Loo Hoo. @ 31
LooHoo. Thanks for the reminder about the half we don’t even know from Pelosi. It is both scary and perplexing.
RevDeb @ 23
Thanks!
Let’s just do the impeachment hearings and do it properly. And see where it goes. It’s the right thing to do.
Reading over everyone’s excitment about YKOS, I started wondering if you’ll be able to pick out the Cheney/neocon/CIA spies who will no doubt have to attend.
scory @ 27
I’m as cynical as you are, but, Clinton’s impeachment can be attributed to K Street, the MSM would benefit immediately by a Shrub/Dickhead impeachment! Just my $.02!!!
ls at 17 says: ”
UFO’s again. Well, well, well…they must be desperate to resort to that.
Actually, to tell a little personal story, my mother-in-law lives in Roswell. My sister-in-law’s good friend from Roswell told us that her father saw…I repeat…saw…I repeat…saw…the “little” people…recovered in the Roswell incident. No sh#t.”
ls, my friend’s dad, on is his deathbed, said he saw what was being discounted…..made sure everyone there heard what he was saying…on his deathbed, he was a silent kinda guy in his life, worked on special projects……….he worked for ge…….he was adamant about it……..made sure everyone knew what he meant before he passed…….he was pissed off about it………
I sense a major change from several months ago here, and in the larger public as to impeachment. Something’s going on.
For over six years, this country has suffered from a runaway, out of control, renagade executive branch of government that has been sadly lacking in accountability.
Impeachment is the ultimate accountability for the executive branch.
So what’s the problem, Democrats in Congress?
Afghanistan
http://skyreporter.com/
A Fulbright student from Afghanistan that I often have conversations with shared these questions and comments with me the other day.
Why does the U.S. focus on the Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan, Pakistan but not in Saudi Arabia where we know the majority of the 9/11 bombers came from? He has shared that his family members find this so confusing and contradictory.
His family also shares that the situation in Afghanistan is getting more dangerous and many people are leaning towards the Taliban due to the security that they seem to supply.
Has also shared that they are confused by the lack of funding for Afghani infrastructure. Turning agricultural crops into products, processing plants, training of soldiers etc. Three of his cousins have been killed during the last several months due to their involvement with the U.S.
ruffian @ 42
They tend to stick out. There were several at last year’s party from the Natl. Review, Hot Air, etc. We all had fun dissing Byron York. The right wing spooks will be even easier to identify. They will have the aura of yellow elephant around them.
ruffian @ 42
They’ll be the ones in Pajamas! Trying to fit in!!! ;-)
It is essential to keep the pressure on the Democrats.
I had this thought of late about impeachment.
The debate centers on the impact for the US. I’m not sure I’ve seen it set in a wider world view. Bush has made us the most hated nation in the world. So, it’s not just about “US”. It’s about regaining our ability to be an honest broker in the world at large.
Apart from the pro arguments from a national perspective (which I support) I can’t think of a better way to send a message to the world (and we are not it) about how Americans view the Bush regime, than IMPEACH!
Scrub Shrub.dmac @ 44
Something significant happened for sure.
Loo Hoo. @ 31
Feingold
http://www.counterpunch.org/memon10132005.html
ruffian @ 42
That’s a given. Carry on is all we can do. It’s still America, no?
Valley Girl @ 51
Amen. Preach it sister!
Valley Girl @ 51
What Valley Girl said.
IMPEACH!
Bravo, PW!
I like your approach!
Bob in
HIWIEarth calling FDL. If the single Senator most closely aligned with the views generally held around here says that impeachment is a no-go, it’s a no go, and we need to find more constructive ways of venting.
Look, I am as much in favor of impeachment as any of you, but it’s simply not going to happen given the current makeup of Congress.
Unlike during Watergate, there are no principled Republicans in the Senate. None. And then there’s the small matter of that slime mold from CT. So where are the votes going to come from?
Hola Lakers,
Sorry to interrupt, but today it feels like we’re having a DIRECT conversation w/ our elected officials — almost in real time (give or take a day). I’m almost afraid to get excited, but it does feel like there’s a bit of hope. Today at least.
Loo Hoo. @ 54
That is an America worth fighting for…
Feingold on Clinton Impeachment
http://findarticles.com/p/arti....._n10498333
I thought I had read that Feingold had voted to Impeach Clinton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Feingold
Tross @ 59
Makes you feel a little special, doesn’t it? I think I like the feeling !
allan_in_upstate @ 58
Thank you, Allan! I was flogged for defending Russ in an earlier thread! I’m all for impeachment too, I called and instigated calls to Pelosi for impeachment, yet, I defended Russ’s POV on DKos!!! 8-)
Twain @ 62
Yup!
Even if we don’t win (and I think we could), at least I know we’ve been heard. When next I vote, at least I won’t feel guilt about voting out any incumbents who didn’t stand up for this.
Statement by Feingold on articles of Impeachment in regard to Clinton
http://australianpolitics.com/.....gold.shtml
allan_in_upstate @ 59
Ian Walsh had an excellent post on how to diffuse Bush by floor filibusters on small votes and letting the pubs stay up all night defending them.. Jim Webb’s bill would have been an excellent example of this imo. Gonzales could be impeached and then go after the bigger fry.
allan_in_upstate @ 58
This is not a case wherein you have to have the vote count before beginning. The only way the evidence of the evildoing of this administration is going to come out is if the congress seriously challenges them and the only way to do so is through impeachment. It is the only way they will get the evidence and expose it. Yes, it will take time and probably run out the clock, but the more that comes out, the sorrier the repigs will look and come election time how many of them will want to side with the crooks and liars in the WH?
They didn’t know that they had the votes in 1972 either. Nixon spared them the vote. W. may run out the clock but so what. We have far less to lose than to gain. If the dems don’t start standing up to the crooks they will look just as bad as the crooks.
allan_in_upstate @ 58
Yeah, just let him continue to fester and the bozos that hitch their wagon to him can circle the drain too. Like McCain ; )
TexB @ 29
How did it go today for you? I was thinking of you…
conniptionfit @ 10
Nice blog! I had completely forgotten you were a Tancredo constituent. My heartiest sympathy — but you’ve got a great blog there!
Valley Girl @ 51
So true.
Now that the House appears to have rediscovered its power to try people for contempt, is there anything to prevent it from subpeona’ing Abu, Rove and Cheney and, when they don’t appear, arrest ‘em?… as I understand it, inherent contempt is not litigatible in the courts and it’s even debateable whether or not a presidential pardon cures it.
ccmask @ 69
Thank you. Injections went well. Pain has been on and off, and I’ve had two naps. Feeling a bit foggy, but OK. Need to go back and let them inject the spine again in 2 weeks. Fun, fun fun!
LS @ 14
Dan Abrams is going the wrong direction, having Tucker as a guest on “his” program. It’s a mistake, and I bet it’s aimed directly at the MediaMatters action that started yesterday about Tucker.
Tucker needs to take the Peter Baker Pledge: “MY number’s not on her list.”
Tonights demand for a simple majority vote, or its an all nighter for congress is a good first step. Perhaps the small voice thats being heard on the hill is collectively ours, saying “do some thing or else” in the ears of those you represent us (at lest for now).
Cheney pushes Bush on Iran
http://www.guardian.co.uk/fron.....43,00.html
“The red line is not in Iran. The red line is in Israel. If Israel is adamant it will attack, the US will have to take decisive action,” Mr Cronin said. “The choices are: tell Israel no, let Israel do the job, or do the job yourself.”
TELL ISRAEL NO!
Hey, everyone!
Sorry I’m late — was on the phone with my mom. (Hi, Mom!)
kathleen @ 65
Money Quote:
“I do not have time to discuss the perjury count this afternoon, but will do so in a longer presentation for the Record. Suffice it to say I do not believe the managers have met their burden of proving perjury beyond a reasonable doubt.
As to obstruction of justice, the President did come perilously close. Three quick observations make me conclude that, in fact, he did not commit obstruction of justice beyond a reasonable doubt.”
TexB: I like the nap part. Hope you feel less pain soon.
This post is going to go very nicely with tonight’s Late Nite, which I just put in the queue. Phoenix Woman, are you reading my mind again?
RevDeb @ 66
I would like someone to name a single Republican who could be persuaded to vote to convict either Bush or Cheney.
I needn’t remind anybody here that Joementum is a dead-ender.
So we’re talking about (at least) 17 Republicans. Names, anyone?
I agree that a good test case is Abu. If he can’t be impeached, no one can.
TexB @ 73
God Bless, Ma’am!!!
Feingold’s money quote:
“What would we be telling Americans–and those worldwide who see in America what they can only hope for in their own countries–if the Senate of the United States were to conclude: The President lied under oath as an element of a scheme to obstruct the due process of law, but we chose to look the other way?”
Digest that. Burp!
allan_in_upstate @ 81
If the repigs don’t get with the program after the evidence is clearly laid out then let them go down with the Titanic.
There probably isn’t time to get through the entire process but there is plenty of time to expose them for who they are. That could be enough for the 2008 election cycle as long as we aren’t facing martial law,
ccmask @ 79
Oh, this is fine. With the old kind of sedation I was dealing with nausea and pain after injections. I’d much rather have less of that and more naps.
kathleen @ 76
I think we should consider amending our view that Cheney is the primary advocate of Iranian armageddon in this administration. Shrub’s comments over the last few days on this subject suggest that he’s at least as belligerent on Iran as the VP is…. Cheney may be better at the operational mechanics of being evil, but I don’t think that makes him any more evil :)
Lots of pressure to quash A*P*C Rosen espionage trial.
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11295
kathleen @ 61
argosfalcon @ 75
Unfortunately, the Senate punted the ball! Wednesday is the new cloture vote day!
Well now thats (insert the sound of air escaping a balloon) disappointing.
LS @ 84
Makes me want to reread the Constitution again.
CTuttle @ 89
Are they not doing the all nighter? See what you miss when you nap?
allan_in_upstate @ 58
That’s true if the Senate vote was today. But 22 of those GOP Senators are up in 2008. If the storm continues to get more perfect — and investigations, impeachment proceedings, hearings, and a House impeachment trial can only make the current storm more perfect — who can really predict how those GOP Senators will vote, given what we may all learn between now and then?
Of course impeachment and removal can’t occur tomorrow. But — impeachment needs to start tomorrow.
What?? Did they forget their blankies…
It’s so true. How can Bush claim he’s trying to bring democracy to Iraq while he is squashing democracy over here, for all the world to see. He had to take our democracy away in order to bring it over there. Egads!(I saw Life with Father the other night–I love the part of the movie with the pug dog))
The former chief of CIA’s OBL task force is saying that Shrub is doing nothing to address the true Terror threat! Duhhh….!!!
For all you rule freaks, take a look at Senate Rule XXII. This is great stuff. After 30 hours of debate, the Senate proceeds directly to vote on the measure, except maybe for any pending amendments. The amendment part isn’t clear, but it looks like we vote on them first, then the bill. Each senator can speak no more than 1 hour, so we have to get at least 31 senators to speak on schedule so we cover the 30 hours. Then we Vote.
Eat that, Mitch!
allan_in_upstate @ 58
Oh, I have no problem with impeachment, so long as people don’t freak out if/when it fails to remove Cheney or Bush.
As you say, there’s no way in hell that any Republican Senator will vote to remove Cheney or Bush, because those Republicans who were principled enough to consider doing so with Nixon (he resigned before it could come to a vote) were promptly purged from the party over the next decade and a half. Among the last to go was Lowell Weicker in 1988 — and he was taken out only when the Republicans interfered in the Democratic primary to ensure that a relatively conservative Democrat, one they could feel comfy backing, won. That Democrat was Joe Lieberman.
However, impeachment as a tool — as a way to highlight the differences between the Democrats and Republicans (much as the Republican use of the filibuster to block popular and needed legislation highlights the differences between Democrats and Republicans) — can be a very useful thing indeed.
Look at two of the most powerful existing progressive political structures you see: Democracy for America and MoveOn.org. The original causes they were formed to advance — Howard Dean’s presidential candidacy, and stopping the Clinton impeachment madness in favor of a simple censure (the group’s original name was “Censure And Move On”) — were failures. But the organizations didn’t go away, and their not going away helped lay the groundwork for the progressive revival we’re seeing today.