The Boston Globe's Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, Charlie Savage, has a must-read article today in which he reminds us of a fundamental truth about the history of Congressional efforts to end wars: while there have been many examples of Congress voting to end authorizations and/or to cut off funding for ill-conceived military adventures, such efforts, even when nominally endorsed by the President, almost invariably failed when the Presidency is held by pro-war Republicans willing to ignore the law.
Savage recites example after example of such efforts, some successful, others disastrously not, but in the failed examples, Congressional efforts failed because a right-wing Republican President with unconstitutionally expansive views of executive power refused to accept Congress' authority to tell the President what to do. Thus, even when Congress repealed the Tonkin Gulf resolution and prohibited Nixon from using US forces in Cambodia, the President refused to obey the law:
War opponents' hopes were dashed. Despite signing the bills, President Nixon said he had independent authority as commander in chief to keep combat in Vietnam going. For the next two years, Congress failed to agree on further restrictions, and nearly 3,000 more American soldiers died. Nixon finally ended the war on his own terms with a cease - fire agreement in January 1973.
Savage notes that successful Congressional efforts at ending military actions depended on genuine Presidential concurrence:
There is ample historical precedent for Congress imposing limits on what presidents can do with US troops in the midst of a war, specialists say. But in all previous such cases, Congress was working with a president who was willing to sign its bills into law, usually as a negotiated compromise.In Vietnam, for example, Congress banned ground combat troops from Laos and Thailand in 1969, and from Cambodia in 1970. And in July 1973, when the combat in Vietnam was over anyway, lawmakers cut off funds for further military action in Indochina -- a gesture that prevented the United States from restarting the war after the North Vietnamese broke the cease-fire agreement in 1975.
But if a President opposed Congress on the issue, all of the arguments that Congress has no authority to tell a President what do to in matters of war surfaced. And Savage notes that we are seeing exactly those arguments today:
Prompted in part by Cheney, the Bush administration has championed an aggressive view of executive power under which Congress cannot restrict the commander in chief's options, short of cutting off funds for the troops. This constitutional interpretation, which is disputed by many legal scholars, has surfaced repeatedly in recent months.On May 1, when Bush vetoed the Iraq timetable bill, he told Congress that it was unconstitutional "because it purports to direct the conduct of the operations of the war in a way that infringes upon the powers vested in the presidency by the Constitution, including as commander in chief of the armed forces."
Last Tuesday, Bush sent Congress a letter threatening to veto any defense bill that restricted his options not only for dealing with Iraq, but also with Iran. His letter asserted that the Constitution "exclusively" commits to him alone the power to decide how to use military or covert force in such national security situations.
And in a news conference Thursday, Bush repeated again his view that Congress can only decide whether to fund the war -- but that all other decisions were for the commander in chief.
In that news conference, Bush also said he would not want to establish a precedent by agreeing to let Congress share in setting troop levels. If Bush refuses to obey laws restricting his conduct of the war, scholars said, it could take months for Congress and the courts to strike back -- a process that might take too long to complete before he leaves office.
"If the executive branch is determined to push its powers to the brink of what they can get away with, the problem for the other branches is that any response they can make within a system of checks and balances takes time," said Peter Shane , an Ohio State law professor.
Added Barron: "It's a perfect storm for a constitutional crisis."
Congressional Democrats are working to change our Iraq policies by persuading sufficient Republicans to join in imposing a different strategy on a recalcitrant President and Vice President. But as Glenn Greenwald rightly points out, what's left of the Republican Party has so thorougly embraced this war and the mindset supporting it that it may be incapable of providing sufficient votes to rein in this Administration. This is their war, and their base won't let them let go.
The importance of this history is that it suggests that Congressional efforts to end the Iraq occupation and/or redeploy US forces to other regions or into more "limited" missions, while politically worth pursuing, are highly likely to fail in actually changing policies, even if they eventually receive 60 Senate votes. What our history tells us is that if Congress truly wants to alter America's policies in Iraq, a winning strategy probably requires removing the war's zealous champions from the White House and encouraging the American people to relegate the Party of Aggressive War to 40 years in the political wilderness.
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Tillman.
FDL on fire
let’s stop the war…
Take it to the people.
Durbin is pushing back!
People have the power!
Sorry Scarecrow…Caw, CAW!
Lou Costello @ 1
Tillman
(EPU’d from previous thread)
Hi, Pups!
Great day. Congrats to all.
An idea to kick around: how about a daily or nightly “Feet to the Fire” frontpage/thread?
To make getting the word out to
Call Critter Whatstheirface about Issue Whatchamacallit
into a regular thing we all look for and add to our daily routines?
If the urgency of the issue has already been addressed extensively, just include links if time is limited. Include the excellent list of toll-free capitol switchboard numbers (thanks Katymine!)with two notes (from my experience and IMHO):
1) pick a number and just let it ring a lot–an operator will answer. Thus, redial can be a good friend.
2) be as nice as possible to those hardworking, probably underpaid and underappreciated women and men on that switchboard. Speak clearly, use a cheerful, friendly tone and lots of “Please” and “Thank you” no matter how impersonal or harassed or curt they sound when they answer (they’re just trying to keep the calls moving).
And one last little thing I’ve been doing–especially if I’m not a constituent (ie, if I call Reid’s or Pelosi’s office), I identify myself as “this is one of the American People.”
(/de-lurk).
Funnydiva
Real Filibusters!!
Durbin is starting to kick some ass. Good on him!
Durbin: The Senator from Kentucky is wrong to say that these Iraq votes need 60 votes to pass.
And he’s giving a very nice Civics lesson: “Since the Republicans want to filibuster, let’s have a real filibuster. It’s not a stunt. Military families spend sleepless nights, so it’s time for the Senate to spend a sleepless night, to sacrifice, an important symbol.”
((((((((Tillman Family))))))))))))
These Repubs are ignorami.
durbin is rocking cspan.
shoving mcconnell’s words down his throat
I think this might be teh speech of his life!
I can’t decide whether I want to have Fitzgerald’s babies — or Durbin’s.
LS @ 8
Tillman
I said this in response to Feingold’s Kos diary: the war cannot be stopped while Bush/Cheney are President. Want to stop the war, Senator Feingold? Remove Bush/Cheney.
Caw, CAW!
thanks Scarecrow!
Boston1775 @ 16
Tillman
do-si-do @ 17
Oh. Yeah. Awesome!
do-si-do @ 17
This is good stuff.
Great piece Scarecrow.
I M P E A C H ! ! !
My dog Jake tells me today keep them Rethug Senators sleeping
on the cots in the Senate cloakrooms for endless quorum calls and
flibusters, that way they can walk their talk and recify their
hypocritical life styles like the self-righteous Senator from La.
Jake likes Durbin today. He’s not sure if Reid can hold up for the
long run.
So… are you advocating impeachment?
JF @ 18
i’m too stupid to know if scarecrow is right and the way to end the occupation is to impeach… or if BTD is right and the way to end the occupation is the power of the purse.
but i do know that i’m pissed that congress is doing neither. i’m happy to get behind whichever method smarter people than me choose.
but for crying out loud… no action except kabuki is unacceptable.
How many of Saddam’s own people have we killed?
Durbin challenging the Authorization of Force in Iraq.
Yeah, Baby!!
But how the Hell can one get enough Chimp Juniors on the GOP Senate side to vote Guilty at an Impeachment earing?
Then let’s get the HELL on with impeachment!!! It was the only solution 2 years ago, it’s the only now, and it will be the only solution 4 months from now.
Impeach, convict, imprison.
Selise, I vote for doing both.
LoudounLib @ 22
Durbin is on fire! Boo-Yah!!!
IMPEACH NOW. it’s the right thing to do.
(and the American People want it this time.)
David @ 29
and restitution!
TILLMAN MURDER IS THE KEY TO THE FLOODGATES.THEY DISTROYED EVIDENCE,HIS DIARY WAS BURNED ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!WHY????
selise @ 26
You are not too stupid! This is an incredibly tough spot Bush has put the country in. Every answer to the question has problems and opportunities, known and unknown (that’s right - unknown unknowns).
Durbin is building up to, I think, that the definitions of the authorization have been fulfilled, therefore, there is no longer a justification for the use of force.
Declare there to be no war in Iraq! Declare that there is only an occupation.
End it!!!
Good afternoon, firedogs-who-move-Congress — well done. Sorry to be late: A slight edit in the last paragraph, so please refresh.
tjb at 35 — Please don’t shout in all caps in the comments. It’s not polite and it makes for exhausting reading for those of us who have been online working all day as it is. Thanks.
Somehow, I don’t believe that the framers of the Constitution envisioned having an imbecile as Commander In Chief.
we have to start by framing the discussion.
whenever a democrat talks about ending this war he needs to do it with brutla critisism;
“we are going to stop the administration from abusing our armed forces for his personal vendettas
we are going to admonish the adminstration for provoking war in countries he was informed posed no threat.
we are going to honor our men and women in service and hold those to account who have abused their service and patriotism
we are going to rebuild our armed forces to the strength they were before the adminstration abused them.”
there are better metrics then those, I just haven’t had the time to come up with some really good ones but the point is made;
do NOT say
“we are ending the war in Iraq”
DO say;
“we are going to stop the abuse of our military and get them back on track preventing war instead of provoking war”
BING
Durbin refutes the “Dems don’t support the troops” argument: “The test of courage of soldiers is not to be measured by the wisdom (or lack?) of those who send them into war.” He’s covering all the bases and now calls for an “up or down” vote and not the 60 vote thing. And, Durbin says, how will Repubs explain this to their constituents.
Can we go all in for double or nothing?
It would warm the cockles of my heart to think they could be wiped off the political map for eighty years. Then maybe we could get something done.
A’57 @ 40
Sure they did. That’s why the remedy is Impeachment…:)
Liberal Heart @ 31
perfect! i knew some smart firepup would have the answer!!
impeach! and bring the troops home now!
Just called to give Senator Durbin some love, but all lines are busy — so I called the Chicago office.
long drive home on a beutiful day with top down weather in my little bitty convertable
will catch up later, bye for now firedogs
Great post Scarecrow.
Impeaching both Bush and Cheney is the only recourse we have left. The time to impeach is now.
…just sent Dick Durbin some email love…
John Warner being a little disingeneous on the filibuster issue.
David @ 30
Procuratio frutex delenda est.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 25
Still thinking about it. ;)
In theory, Congress has the power of the purse, but in practice that is an empty power when it comes to containing military power wielded by the executive. Once troops are in the field, it is politically impossible for Congress to extricate them without presidential cooperation.
Every time the Repubs attempt to claim loyalty of the troops to the “mission” created by their Neocon leaders,…point out that a bunch of troops are Democrats. Every time they insult the Democrats as unpatriotic, cut and runners, or any of the slew of insults they come up with, point out that they are directly insulting troops who are dying for this country.
Liberal Heart @ 16
geesh! there ARE other options, y’know.
don’t s’pose u’ve asked them about their feelings on the issue… *g*
Scarecrow @ 52
hehe…kiddo, you made me laugh out load for my long trip home…thanx
A’57 @ 40
He is torturing all of us just like he used to torture small animals. And he’s enjoying it.
I’ve wondered for a long time, why torture prisoners? Aside from being morally reprehensible, it’s not effective. But now I get it. It’s “because they can.”
Liberal Heart @ 46
Phone #’s, pretty please!!! 8-)
A’57 @ 40
Actually, they did. They had already suffered under George III. That’s one of the reasons impeachment is mentioned six times in the Constitution. Republican Party is not mentioned once.
They goofed up with Jessica Lynch as the American herioine with the right stuff. What a poster that would have made! Oops, caught fabricating the facts.
Well, Tillman would be a terrific poster. Oops something went awry. Did he refuse to cooperative? Did they think they could achieve in his death what they couldn’t while he was alive? What was in his diary? What is in the report the administration needs to keep secret? Hum!!!
A’57 @ 40
They anticipated both imbeciles and tyrants, what they never imagined was an emasculated, supine Congress cowering at their own shadow averting their eyes from the shredding of the Constitution.
Sorry to bore — but can we all use only “Occupation” and impress on our Congresscritters that they too should remember to stop saying “War!
Sam @ 24
Dogs speak truth.
Adie @ 55
That’s reserved for pillow talk.
David @ 29
Between Impeach, Guilty Senate verdict, removal and a conviction; there needs to be an indictment. My suggestion
is US Code:Title 18.2441.War Crimes.
www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002441—-000-.html
Under the Nuremberg Principles, the supreme international crime is that of commencing a war of aggression, because it is the crime from which all war crimes follow. The definition of such a crime is planning, preparing, initiating, or waging a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements, or assurances. Also, participating in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any such act constitutes such a crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime
Walking into the grocery store this afternoon, I heard the first siren. Then another. And another. And a bus, coming from North Dakota into Moorhead, headed East to Hwy 10. Then police car after police car. Clay County sheriffs. Moorhead city police… sirens sounding, all.
Months ago a single soldier returned in a flag-draped coffin on a dreary-grey heartbreaking day. Heading home on this same route.
Today, a bus, and I thought of the morning paper. They’re coming home. National Guard. Under live fire only days ago, these small town men and women. Citizen soldiers. Weekend warriors.
The empty desk at the local bank. The shorthanded police dept. The EMTs pulling extra duties because their buddies are in Iraq.
They’re home now. To pick up the threads of living in the heartland again.
What have we done to them? What have they had to do in our name? And how can we be sure in our hearts that the next time….
CTuttle @ 58
1-312-353-4952
A’57 @ 41
That’s because the village idiot stayed in the village and everyone knew he was the village idiot.
David @ 30
I rather like: Impeach, convict, and ship the S.O.B.s to the Hague — gift-wrapped.
warner: do you realize that terrorists have moved into iraq?
uh duh, is that a real reason to stay? I mean, by staying, we are creating all kinds of enemies. Are we going to occupy their countries too?
Vitter is going to speak today at 5:00. Via TPM..
http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=6795125
There is only one war in Iraq, and it is a civil war.
Congress needs to declare that America is not at war with Iraq! That would remove any question of “war powers”.
I don’t think Bush would have a leg to stand on, because there is no declaration of war against terrorists. The GWOT does not exist.
Steve-AR @ 65
Sounds like a great place to start to me — now which Representative can we get to introduce articles of impeachment in the House?
maunga @ 29
The process of impeachment hearings and the actual debates over impeachment, if done well, will bring so much public weight in favor of throwing these bums out that we will get the votes. If we don’t we don’t but at least we stood up for the constitution.
selise @ 26
I don’t oppose not funding missions with which we disagree — that should be Congress prerogative. But remember Iran-Contra? Do both, but only one has a certain effect.
Liberal Heart @ 67
Mahalo Nui Loa! (Thank You Very Much) *g*
Scarecrow @ 64
Dogs know!
Scarecrow @ 60
I stand corrected. Which begs the question: What are we waiting for?
Great post, Scarecrow.
But, regarding
I have to say I’m pretty pessimistic. Given the Republicans’ power in the Senate,
and the number of Federalist Society types seeded throughout the judiciary,
Congress may never be able to bring this to a “crisis”.
Wars have consequences. Here’s what Ulysses S. Grant had to say about the Mexican War, in which he fought:
To us it was an empire and of incalculable value; but it might have been obtained by other means. The Southern rebellion was largely the outgrowth of the Mexican war. Nations, like individuals, are punished for their transgressions. We got our punishment in the most sanguinary and expensive war of modern times.
Scarecrow @ 52
Think Alex Trebek and Final Jeopardy music!
Warner - “efforts against Al-Qaeda”.
So, how can Bush claim “war powers”. Hellloooo.
realworld @ 74
Just don’t count on CNN to get it right by any stretch.
maunga @ 62
Failed occupation. Senator Webb said it bluntly then drifted back into calling it war… we must all–top to bottom–call it what it is: we won the war, Bush’s occupation is a failure and it is making us less secure. Over there and over here.
Get your state legislators working on bills of impeachment. These have to be recognized by the House under Jefferson’s rules.
Ed*ard Teller @80:
How chillingly accurate and appropriate to our current situation. Brrrr…
Is this the price we pay for Gulf War I?
Don’t forget, come September they’re gonna be rolling out the new product…
phred @ 72
Too bad we didn’t block Roberts and Alito…If we had a SCOTUS committed to the rule of law, we could have bypassed Impeachment and gone directly to Indictment for War Crimes.
Well. If the president had no money, then his desire to wage war is severely limited, isne’t it?
Congress (I mean YOU! Sen Reid and Rep Pelosi!) needs to strenuously exercise the power of the purse.
Cut off all military funding until the troops are withdrawn from Iraq and there is a guarantee that there will be no invasion or attack on Iran.
Period.
Scarecrow @ 75
i think funding the iran occupation with illicit drug and arms sales would be a bit more difficult than funding the contras.
that’s why i’m not convinced that de-funding can’t work.
but i like the two pronged approach. right now we have the no pronged approach.
called Reid’s office to register my support for standing tough - aide said he’d note my “Booyah!”.
The Occupation — let’s call it by its true name — is the core issue, not the ‘war’. A resolution banning the extension of conflict into Iran without Congressional approval is highly desirable,though that horse may have bolted the stable last week. However, the Occupation raises issues that transcend the urgent and tragic situation of our troops in Iraq. Those issues concern the question whether the United States should or can maintain an Imperium in the Middle East. Unless this issue is raised, debated, and hopefully decided, it will be decided the way our Vietnam misadventure was decided, on the ground and not to our advantage.
The Senate Foreign Affairs Committee need to hold extended hearings on American goals in the Middle East. Presumably these include the protection of Israel, which raises the question why we do not have a mutual defense treaty with that state, and ‘protecting’ oil supplies. Both issues demand real debate and not just restatings of old untested assumptions. What exactly is the reason for our committment to Israel? What are the alternatives to military protection of the Saudi oil reserves? Does it matter? If so, how does it matter?
One of the problems we face is that since 1945 we have with the help of the British pretty much run that part of the world, with the exception of a few setbacks like the Shah’s abdication, Nasser’s temporary alignment with the Soviet Union, and Saddam’s flirtation with real independence. So it’s very hard for our policy gurus to imagine a world where we don’t run the place. But we ought to think it through, if only to persuade ourselves that the cost is worth the candle. I don’t think it is, but am open to persuasion.
I note that Joe Wilson believes it is worth the candle. he signed up for Hillary today, and I think the main reason is that he supports her Middle Eastern policy, which is that in some format we continue to exert a degree of imperial authority.
Getting the troops out of Iraq solves an immediate problem, but it does not resolve the root problem.
Can’t remember where I read this:
We already have a constitutional crisis.
Impeachment is the remedy.
Bush’s little dog-and-pony, good-cop speech today is the attempted innoculation for fall, because they know they can’t survive impeachment.
Scarecrow - What was that all about - the “reality” vs. The Evil Parallel Universe?
And yes, I at least think I’m entitled.
There are no wars.
We are not at war with Afghanistan.
We are not at war with Iraq.
Al-Qaeda is not a country. There is no declaration of a war with Al-Qaeda. There is only an authorization to use force against those who attacked the US on 9/11.
The justification for the AUMF for Iraq has been completed.
Now, let’s get out!! No more money other than funds to use to remove the forces out of Iraq.
I’m late getting to the lake today. Can anyone tell me please if the tillman story got any MSM ink today?
jayt @ 90
good one!
jon @ 87
I thought that very same thing, when reminded of Andrew Card’s comment earlier today.
Brisingamen @ 86
No, Gulf War III - the Iraq/Afghanistan/Iran/Pakistan/Syria nuclear war, which will start fairly soon, is more of what Grant was prophetically conjuring, IMHO.
I say I say does anyone else hee-yah believe that Warner sounds verry much like Foghorn Leghorn?
David @ 30
Bill Moyers’ Journal had great interview with John Nichols & Bruce Fein about importance of impeachment to preventing future presidents (including Hillary & Barack, if either wins) from using many of the same tools that Bush has used with impunity. Program ran Friday night 7-13-2007 on PBS.
Nichols is the author of The Genius of Impeachment. Bruce Fein is a principled conservative who drafted one of the articles of impeachment on Clinton based on perjury.
They persuaded me that impeachment is the founders’ remedy for RESOLVING a constitutional crisis; impeachment is a response to a crisis, not the beginning of a constitutional crisis.
Even the MSM are slowly realizing that we are in the middle of a constitutional crisis….
LS @ 99
that’s a chiling thought, really. chilling.
LS @ 72
I had forgotten that — we have so much to occupy us, as well as earn a living, having pointed this out a while ago over and over again!
Constitutionalists —- is this viable? If it is, surely it is the elegant and quick way through the morass?
It is certainly true that Congress authorised the action in Iraq but did not Declare War!
Hey, Mitch! - Lisa’s got some explaining to do. So far, she’s keeping mum.
QuakerGirl @ 68
Remember how all the MSM used to say what a likeable fellow the preez was? I just never got that. But then some have called me dense.
LS @ 83
Tiny little detail which needs to be ppounded home: Al Qaida is organizing and hanging out mostly in PAKISTAN! This fact is the major mindf*ck that the admin does not want the US public to grasp.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 93
I think the next line is,”You can’t handle the truth.”
btw, your comment is OT.